Latest / SisterSmart Leadership / 29: How Nadia is Designing a Path to Executive Leadership With Work-Life Balance Built in

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29: How Nadia is Designing a Path to Executive Leadership With Work-Life Balance Built in · SisterSmart Leadership

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  Nadia: you're striving to be successful, you're striving to, do all you can and
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  achieve all you can within your job.
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  And there's many demands, whether it's travel, whether it's.
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  Project deliverables, initiatives, presentations, all
• 0:11
  of the things we have to do.
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  And the challenge with that, though, naturally can be balancing that, right?
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  Balancing work life balance.
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  How are we showing up as successful as we, can at home or in personal relationships,
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  friendships, et cetera as we are at work.
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  And so this was really a a good opportunity for me.
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  To dig in and look at that overall focus on balance, right?
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  Jill Avey: I'm Jill Avey, a career success coach, and this is Sister
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  Smart Leadership, the show that explores how women can rise from
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  director to vice president and beyond by fully leaning into their feminine
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  energy as their biggest advantage.
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  Let's get you one step closer to the recognition and promotion you deserve.
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  Jill: I would love to hear about your journey with the Sister Smart Program
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  and we've been working together for about a year now or a little bit over
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  a year and you've just graduated.
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  So I would love to hear your experience from the program and how that
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  supported you through your career journey this last year and how it
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  set you up for where you want to, go.
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  Would you share with me thinking back of where we started and what
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  that journey has been like for you?
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  Nadia: I'm happy to A, have this opportunity.
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  It's been a great journey.
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  And this I think allows me to think about all of the great progress we've made,
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  over the past year SisterSmart program.
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  thinking back again, what kind of drew me to realize the importance of,
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  having the right guidance was thinking, how do I get to the next level?
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  I've been in my current role for a few years.
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  I work within a pharmaceutical division and oncology US, focus specifically.
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  and I was really at this point of, thinking ahead to a crossroads,
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  what is my next potential step?
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  What is my next potential role?
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  And ideally getting to that, that next level.
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  And so throughout that, as I was thinking ahead to that crossroads, it
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  made me realize that it really would make sense to have I have a focused,
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  dedicated perspective, but also I thought there would be great advantage
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  to having an external perspective.
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  I have mentors, I have, Thought partners within the company I work for.
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  But I realized the value of having an external perspective to
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  really help me evaluate my future pathway and my future options.
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  And so that's what really, I think, led me right to the SisterSmart program.
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  Additionally in my role thinking like in the role I was in at the time,
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  part of it was thinking ahead, like I said, to my crossroads, what is my
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  next role potentially going to be?
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  How do I further my success within my current role.
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  So last year, when we were getting, kicked off within the program, I
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  was preparing to lead a product launch within our oncology division.
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  And there was a lot going on and I was at the beginning part of
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  that process really in many ways.
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  But it made me realize that there would be value.
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  And having, again, external perspective counsel to help me maximize that
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  experience to make sure I was being as successful and performing as well
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  as I could within that role as well.
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  Jill: Yeah, fantastic.
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  What do you think you've gotten from it?
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  Nadia: Lots to say it in a nutshell, but,
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  I'd say the first thing it might sound easy, or it might sound like an
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  obvious thought, but I think it's worth considering that going through the sister
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  smart program the first major benefit is really having the dedicated time
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  to really focus on your development, to think through many of the different
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  questions and things that we pondered and I know, and discussed through multiple
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  sessions just to have that dedicated time.
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  It's something that I think.
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  We all should do.
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  We all want to do.
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  But we know we get busy, right?
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  We get busy with our day to day, with the deliverables.
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  We have family obligations, right?
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  All of those things.
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  So really just having, again, that dedicated time.
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  I think additionally of course there were many resources, learnings of
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  course, that were shared throughout the program that were super helpful
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  that I never had, gained access to.
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  So that was incredibly beneficial to help me shape my thought process to
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  be as successful as I can be in my current role but also thinking ahead
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  to what that next step looks like.
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  And then part of that, of course, naturally was through
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  our sessions, we had one on ones.
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  And so having that dialogue and oftentimes the questions you would ask me would
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  make me ponder, or think, or look within myself things I hadn't considered.
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  And so that's really, the big value as you're evaluating future pathway
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  or what it takes to be successful.
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  All of those kind of components wrapped up into one.
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  Jill: Oh, that's
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  so great.
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  Thinking about the curriculum, was there anything that stands out for you that was
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  particularly important for you to learn?
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  Nadia: Yes.
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  So many components of the curriculum.
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  But I think one is really to that point, right?
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  So I was just saying, one of the great benefits was having the
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  opportunity to think through and take the time, to evaluate, look into
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  myself, do some self evaluations.
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  What are my strengths?
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  What are my areas of opportunity, what are my passions?
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  What drives me, what really motivates me.
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  And those are certainly things I had thought about at some point,
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  tangentially, but the opportunity to have to really dig in and go through specific
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  steps and experiences and exercises.
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  So that was really, through the first part of the program, the defining who you are.
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  So I love that.
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  I won't say it was always easy, because some of it certainly
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  requires you to dig in and consider.
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  Parts of yourself, maybe you hadn't evaluated or thought
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  through but the difficult stuff can be what's most rewarding.
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  So again, taking that time to dig in, utilize those resources that
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  we really started the program with helped me, I think, learn more
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  about, my values, my aspirations.
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  And then again, the next question is to think through
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  ensuring you're aligning to them.
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  I'd say another component that I found a lot of value in, Was when we were
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  digging into overcoming the busyness trap.
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  You'll recall as we were exploring and going throughout the program,
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  one of the aspects, and I'm sure this is true for many women you're
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  striving to be successful, you're striving to, do all you can and
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  achieve all you can within your job.
• 6:41
  And there's many demands, whether it's travel, whether it's.
• 6:44
  Project deliverables, initiatives, presentations, all
• 6:46
  of the things we have to do.
• 6:47
  And the challenge with that, though, naturally can be balancing that, right?
• 6:51
  Balancing work life balance.
• 6:54
  How are we showing up as successful as we, can at home or in personal relationships,
• 6:59
  friendships, et cetera as we are at work.
• 7:03
  And so this was really a a good opportunity for me.
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  To dig in and look at that overall focus on balance, right?
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  I know we talked a lot about the various quadrants, of thinking like, what's
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  a fully balanced person look like, a happy person look like, and make sure
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  that I'm not too unbalanced in one.
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  And I appreciated the opportunity to dig in and consider, what
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  does that imbalance look like?
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  What is the impact?
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  Of that.
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  And to have those discussions and those dialogues, because when I am
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  too over indexed on work what does that impact on the personal life?
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  I would give the example on the other side, but I haven't
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  quite experienced that yet.
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  But, it was definitely, a good opportunity for me to lean into.
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  And the one other thing I'd say is I had the great opportunity to.
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  At the same time of going through sister smart to be able to internally,
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  I was going through a leadership development program within my company.
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  And some of those same messages were tying or connecting at the
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  same time as we were going through overcoming the busyness trap module.
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  And so it really helped reinforce and, helped me think about
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  striving for more of a balance.
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  Jill: so you, you did some of that work in your personal strategy retreat.
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  How, we do want to share a little bit about how that retreat went for you.
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  Nadia: Yeah.
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  It was really good.
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  So it reinforced the messaging so as I was thinking through, again, the
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  learnings of overcoming busyness trap, thinking through the various quadrants
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  that we should consider, what I also was able to experience through my company's
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  leadership program was, we actually had an offsite meeting or a retreat.
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  It was down in Florida and they had folks come in that really were
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  focused on health and wellness.
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  And so we were talking about things that, you know, everything around
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  sleep and the focus on that diet.
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  And one of the other things that was really important to me that
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  I learned through that program and through that process was they
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  talked a bit about periods of, there's going to be fluctuation,
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  there's certainly going to be.
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  Parts of your work life that are a little more busy than others, and sometimes your
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  personal life will be a little, more busy.
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  But there's going to be ebbs and flows.
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  And so the importance is to recognize that while you're, you may be engaged
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  or even stressed at certain points either work related or personal.
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  Those are okay, right?
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  There's points where you're going to be stressed because there's
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  deliverables, but also that's where you can grow, But in order to grow,
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  you have to have the opportunity to have rest or reprieve from the stress.
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  And so it's during those periods, that you really realize
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  that growth from the stress.
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  So I thought that was really interesting.
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  It was an opportunity to dig into, again, Not all stress is bad,
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  but also the opportunity to have those rest periods are critical.
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  Your body will give them to you if you don't, but not by choice, right?
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  And maybe not at a time that's convenient.
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  it's good to be able to take those times to rest and that's where you'll
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  experience the growth and then also be able to deliver and perform when
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  that next stress period picks up.
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  Jill: That's great.
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  I remember when you came back from your strategy retreat, that you were thinking
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  about shifting some things at home to make sure that you were being the mom
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  that you want to be, because you've got twins at home and, a husband and,
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  wanting to make sure you had quality time with your family that was intentional.
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  Can you tell me a little bit more about that?
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  Nadia: That was one of the the big things and, Going into the retreat,
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  they even asked us to do like a 360 feedback process, and I've done many
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  of those before in my career where it's more focused on work, right?
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  It's more focused on how you perform and what your peers and, various
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  levels of organizations have, what their perspective is of you.
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  But this 360 was a little different.
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  In that it was focused on, yes, I could give it to some of the folks
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  I worked with but also my family.
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  My husband did fill it out children.
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  And then even asked my mom and, other relatives.
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  So the idea being to get a surround sound of your 360 perspective.
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  And so what they leaned in and what the feedback that was provided was around.
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  Others perspectives on, my ability to take quality of myself as well to get the rest
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  I need, to have quality time with them, going back to the quadrants, et cetera.
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  And so going to this retreat, I had those results from the 360.
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  And there were some tough moments, where, feedback around, not spending
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  as much quality time, from my husband's perspective as he might
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  like, or my children's perspective.
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  And what came out of that and again, being able to go through this whole process of
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  reflection, take those results in again, not always the easiest feedback but
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  important, these are the most important people in my life at the end of the day.
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  And so coming out of that had the opportunity to do some of that reflection.
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  And some of it was around, making sure my husband and I
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  have more consistent date nights.
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  And that can sound trite or easy enough, but it's important, right?
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  It's important to be able to have that time to be able to have a
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  dedicated game night, for example, where we're all getting together
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  and we're, playing a board game or a card game or, something like that.
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  Those are some things that I pulled into a plan moving forward
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  for some of that quality time.
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  And then trips.
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  I do love a good vacation or trip here and there when I can do it.
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  And so being able to pull that in and not something you can do
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  all the time but we did just get back from a really nice vacation.
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  And so that was 1 that I was able to pull through.
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  And again, think back about the advantages of it and remind my
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  family of the advantage of it too for this quality time that we have.
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  So those are a couple examples.
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  I would say personally I've always been good about exercise.
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  So that was one that reinforced the message.
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  I was able to stay consistent with that.
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  So that's been good.
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  But one thing I did definitely a self care area, I was experiencing, and
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  I know we had many conversations on this with challenges with sleeping,
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  staying asleep, and you did share some great resources and learnings and
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  readings, and so we talked through that.
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  And so that's another thing on a personal level that I leaned into
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  even further around, protecting my sleep habits, going into bedtime.
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  And then, making sure I'm getting enough quality sleep time, et cetera.
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  And so those are things that I've seen positive impacts.
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  Jill: That's great.
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  And you were able to get a three week vacation in, which is impressive.
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  Nadia: It is.
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  Yeah, that was amazing.
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  Partly I think because
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  I didn't take all the vacation I could use last year just
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  with the launch I was leading.
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  But the three weeks were so rejuvenating.
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  can't think of the last time I've had that much time and so
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  it was so fantastic to have.
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  Really great.
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  And then for example, the vacation I just took I completely unplugged.
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  I didn't, bring any, Work computer, phone, anything like that.
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  So the opportunity to really unplug is so critical, but I think was again,
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  reinforced throughout this process to make sure that I'm getting those recharged
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  moments so that way when I come back, I'm, refreshed, but able to give up, a
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  hundred percent when I'm back in work.
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  Jill: Yeah.
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  And it's so impressive that you've been able to do that because you work
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  in a very large organization with a very big job that's matrixed and
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  a lot of things happening at once.
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  So that really says something, it's not like you're doing something that
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  it's easy to get away and unplug with, if anybody has a job, that's easy.
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  So tell me a little bit about you were doing the corporate program as
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  well as your own one on one program.
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  And what were the differences for you?
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  As some people are, wondering if they're getting everything they need
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  from their corporate program and not sure if if, a private program was
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  really going to be worth it for them.
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  How they compliment each other.
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  And.
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  what was different
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  Nadia: how they were complimentary is and again, I know I said this up front,
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  but I do think it's really important to recognize that having dedicated time and
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  resources and, talent, such as yourself to provide guidance and perspective
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  is not to be taken for granted.
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  And so that's something that.
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  Both programs, offered me at the same time, which is fantastic.
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  Both, again, leaning into recognizing that those benefits of, to be able to be as
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  successful as I want to be and I want to strive to be, I have to be able to have
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  those moments to recharge, I have to be able to have those moments to make sure
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  I'm taking care of myself so that I can, take care of others and also deliver.
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  And then also making sure that I'm being considerate of.
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  My whole self that I can show up as.
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  My whole self.
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  So that's taking in, the four quadrants, right?
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  All of the areas our lives that make us a whole person that definitely came
• 15:51
  through very strongly in both programs.
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  So I think that's really important, it's the recognition of to be our
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  best and to make sure that we can set ourselves up best for success
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  to get to that next level, it would behoove us to make sure that we're.
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  Showing up as our best self and our best self is not just 1 area of our lives.
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  It's a kind of a full spectrum, a full consideration.
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  And so those were definitely some of those cross pollination, I would say of
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  similarities and then I think in terms of.
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  Nuances or differences.
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  So with Sister Smart, we obviously were focused on some of the opportunities, but
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  the unique challenges that we face in the workplace as women, in my internal
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  program, it was very much focused on, really the function of the program was to.
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  Take those who are considered top talent or high potential talent, I
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  should say, within our organization, but are minority leaders.
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  And so that was a really interesting ability to see it from both lenses.
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  A lot of overlaps or similarities, right?
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  Because there certainly are.
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  Similar, challenges we, we can face whether you're considering a lens from
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  being a minority or being a woman, but there's also some interesting nuances
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  and what my internal program did afford me was because it was a group setting,
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  there were multiple folks coming through it.
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  It gave me that opportunity to hear their lens.
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  Some of the challenges they might be facing internally, questions,
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  opportunity to consider things a little differently through their lens.
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  And that was really valuable.
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  So again, a slight nuance but I think certainly complimentary
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  in terms of both programs.
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  I was able to go on at the same time.
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  Jill: Yeah.
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  I remember when you came back from the one session and it did seem like they
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  were really complimenting each other.
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  And
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  as you said, there was three different weeks that you went on your internal
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  program, but then the one on one coaching was through the whole year.
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  Did you feel like you got to dive deeper into things with the one on one
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  sessions than you could get to in a week?
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  Nadia: Yes, yeah, no, I definitely felt through our one on ones, I
• 17:55
  was able to dive in even further A, we had a whole year, so there was
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  more time and we were having more
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  frequent touch points, and also, it was, Selfishly, it could be any
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  topic that I just wanted to discuss versus, versus a collective group.
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  But I think it was nice in that, again, being able to go
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  through both at the same time.
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  Yes, we obviously, dove deep into the Sister Smart modules and the programs and
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  the work that I was going through there.
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  And questions and areas I wanted to focus on right based off of those learnings,
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  but because I was going through the separate program internally, I could bring
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  some of those discussions, to you too.
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  And we had some great dialogue around again, those similarities, some of
• 18:39
  those complimentary parts of the programs, any nuances, et cetera.
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  And I think that really ultimately helps.
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  What we were talking about before on some of those areas I wanted to
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  lean in on to make sure I was showing up as my best self, my full self.
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  It just reinforced, coming together, reinforcing both of those messages
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  together was really beneficial.
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  But to your point, I think, us having more time, more frequent time, more consistent
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  time, and able to just focus on me really ensure that we were able to deep
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  dive even further and I could, help make sure that I, we were focusing on what
• 19:15
  was right for us what was right for me.
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  Jill: so tell me
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  about what the biggest challenge was that you were facing.
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  Nadia: So I'd say coming in, my biggest challenge was really, part of it was
• 19:28
  me thinking through where I want to go next, as I was saying up front,
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  I joke that it's a bit of the What do you want to be when you grow up?
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  Which I think as a kid, I thought I would certainly, everyone knows by age 20, but
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  obviously we're all still navigating our journeys and thinking through what that
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  next role is and the role after that.
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  And even if I know the role that's three roles from now, what's the
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  best step to make sure I get there?
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  I think that's my biggest.
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  challenge or opportunity, Which was helpful for me to work through this
• 19:58
  program to take me to, to that next level.
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  But I think, going back to knowing that as a woman and we're navigating
• 20:05
  the purpose and where you're great is helping ensure that my eyes are open
• 20:11
  to perhaps some of the nuances of addressing this big question as a woman.
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  And what are some of those dynamics within the marketplace?
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  And part of me thinks that
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  I've been with my organization for many years, for 16 years now, and that's a bit
• 20:26
  of our culture and so part of me wonders if it's a bit of that but as we were
• 20:31
  digging into around, again, challenging status quo in a way that feels authentic
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  to me but we know that's important for, high levels an organization.
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  And so what we had chatted about in terms of potential dynamics, and this was
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  really helpful through our work through Sister Smart, but also certainly came up
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  in my internal program, because again, we're thinking through things through
• 20:54
  the focus of leaders of color within the organization whether it's challenging
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  status quo, whether it's, Raising, issues on a given project or something that we're
• 21:05
  working on is as a woman or as a person of color sometimes, and I did dig in and
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  realize that this was a bit of what I was thinking through or considering and what
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  might've been holding me back at certain points of being a challenger would be some
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  of those stereotypes that might face us.
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  So as a woman.
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  Sometimes those can be around, if you're challenging too much, are you
• 21:27
  seen as aggressive, or a complainer and not wanting to lean into that.
• 21:31
  And then as a woman of color or a person of color there's some of those
• 21:34
  stereotypes of like the angry black woman, and so not wanting to lean into that.
• 21:39
  So it was really helpful to go through the process and dig into that and realize
• 21:44
  that was under the surface, right?
• 21:47
  I'm not sure if I consciously thought about that.
• 21:50
  But, as I was digging in and again, it's just, these are
• 21:52
  common things I was hearing.
• 21:53
  Within our internal program as well.
• 21:56
  And so it was great to call it out, and also the feedback I got when I
• 22:00
  was discussing internally with some of my other colleagues was that would
• 22:05
  not be seen at risk Of being deemed angry or being deemed aggressive just
• 22:11
  given my personality or dynamics.
• 22:13
  And so that's enabled me to lean in even more again, in a
• 22:17
  way that feels authentic to me.
• 22:19
  I'm never going to be the person, pounding my fists on, the
• 22:21
  boardroom or anything like that.
• 22:23
  But in a way that helps me to, the, get my point across, but in
• 22:26
  a way that's authentic for me.
• 22:28
  Jill: Yeah.
• 22:28
  And we brainstormed a lot of different ways that you could push that envelope
• 22:32
  a little bit and not, that was still
• 22:34
  authentic to you.
• 22:35
  So I think That was some good work.
• 22:37
  You also were working a lot on this next step for you now after the launch, you
• 22:43
  were ready to start looking at, what were the next steps up to senior director?
• 22:48
  And that's been a real journey for you.
• 22:50
  Can you tell us some more about that?
• 22:53
  Nadia: Yes.
• 22:53
  That has been quite a journey.
• 22:55
  in our organization we, again, a pharma marketing organization
• 22:59
  or pharma organization.
• 23:01
  We highly value as many do.
• 23:03
  I think this ability to excel at strategy, and that's what marketers do.
• 23:08
  We own the strategy and obviously that pulls through into, Resources we
• 23:12
  develop either for the field or, through non personal promotion, et cetera.
• 23:17
  And historically I've had a lot of roles and I've really loved
• 23:22
  that strategy, That's why I'm in marketing at the end of the day.
• 23:25
  I really came up through global marketing, so I spent a lot of time in global.
• 23:29
  I did do some sales, years ago and market access as well but I really
• 23:32
  loved that strategy component.
• 23:34
  And as I was thinking through the next step, the next, roles and knowing my
• 23:39
  future, future role of a VP of marketing.
• 23:42
  One of the areas that through this program, we talked a lot
• 23:46
  about and obviously through some internal discussions with sponsors
• 23:49
  and mentors internally within my company as well, is recognizing
• 23:54
  that I think what we come down to.
• 23:56
  And many companies probably are the same is, yes, that strategy is really important
• 24:02
  and demonstrating excellence there.
• 24:04
  Leadership obviously is important as well, and so whether that's direct
• 24:08
  leadership of a team larger team, maybe managing people, leaders as well, right?
• 24:15
  So being able to demonstrate success there.
• 24:17
  And I think the other thing that really As important, it's come
• 24:20
  through as execution, that ability to demonstrate that you've impacted,
• 24:24
  business results and whether that's net trade sales or, some other measure.
• 24:29
  And so throughout this process where I was leaning up front, right.
• 24:34
  Was knowing I love that strategy component.
• 24:38
  Whether that's going back to global or staying within us.
• 24:41
  So those were some of the dynamics I was considering, but recognizing
• 24:46
  again, through many of these, maybe some soul searching and through our
• 24:50
  discussions and through some of those internal ways of working really within
• 24:55
  my organization, realizing that.
• 24:58
  It's not enough to lean, so heavily just on the strategy, the marketing
• 25:03
  strategy or market access strategy.
• 25:05
  And so making sure that I'm well rounded on the execution and even
• 25:10
  more on, on the leadership side.
• 25:11
  So I have leadership, but again, if you're getting through a really large team or
• 25:15
  some of those dynamics of managing people leaders, where you can manage through the
• 25:19
  distribution curve, Higher performers, middle performers, lower performers, even.
• 25:25
  And so where I've been moving forward, recognizing that would be a good area to.
• 25:31
  Ensure I have experience with is more leaning to a sales leadership position.
• 25:36
  I know they're called different things in different organizations.
• 25:39
  But again, essentially it's a regional, leader, regional
• 25:42
  business leader that heads up.
• 25:44
  a good portion of the country their sales force.
• 25:47
  And so thinking through that, knowing that would give me that, full spectrum.
• 25:51
  I really do have the marketing strategy, a lot of experience, many years there.
• 25:56
  I have a lot of the breadth across our sectors, whether
• 25:59
  it's med tech or pharma now.
• 26:01
  I even have global public health and commercial, so a lot of different
• 26:04
  experiences, but what this next role would help me get is that broader people
• 26:09
  leadership, but again, that execution and that would really give me that.
• 26:13
  Full spectrum, the triple threat, maybe to make me super competitive
• 26:17
  for much higher leadership roles within the organization and my future.
• 26:20
  Jill: there's a work life balance ramification to this, isn't there?
• 26:24
  Nadia: Yeah.
• 26:25
  Yeah.
• 26:25
  That was that was a lot of our dialogue for sure.
• 26:29
  The funny thing was.
• 26:30
  We were just talking about part of, our learning with avoiding the busyness trap.
• 26:35
  And as I was going on the retreat in my other program, that part was
• 26:39
  really ensuring that, I'm leaning in on ensuring I'm balancing And not,
• 26:44
  showing up as my full self, et cetera.
• 26:46
  And so one of the things I was really considering to make sure
• 26:49
  I wasn't going against that, if I'm again, leaning into this.
• 26:53
  Sales role is the travel and recognizing that, if you're responsible
• 26:58
  for a region of the country.
• 27:00
  you're going to need to travel more.
• 27:02
  And so that was something I definitely, weighed and grappled with quite a bit.
• 27:06
  And I know we had lots of discussions there too.
• 27:09
  And so part of it is, it's not that I don't travel now,
• 27:13
  even though I'm in house.
• 27:15
  So part of it's that, and I do go into the office,
• 27:19
  three days a week.
• 27:19
  And so there's travel certainly.
• 27:21
  That's, going into the office there, but thinking through how would that
• 27:26
  work for my family and how would that work for my family in this new me, that
• 27:32
  I'm trying to make sure I'm showing up more balanced, so it necessitated a good
• 27:37
  kind of heart to heart with my husband.
• 27:40
  Obviously he and my children are most important.
• 27:42
  And so where we were leaning is, a just to recognize it.
• 27:46
  I think it's important to discuss it openly and be candid about what
• 27:50
  it could look like to recognize that it's it wouldn't be forever, It
• 27:53
  would be a, a given amount of time.
• 27:56
  I think the other thing, though, that really helped I started
• 27:58
  setting up a lot of one on ones and conversations with folks who had done
• 28:02
  the role or are doing it now as well particularly women and try to just,
• 28:07
  understand a bit, how did they manage?
• 28:09
  What did it look like?
• 28:10
  Is it as much travel as I was fearing?
• 28:13
  And so the nice thing I was hearing with that is yes, there is travel but there's
• 28:18
  the opportunity To make your schedule yours because you are a leader, right?
• 28:22
  You would be a sales leader.
• 28:23
  And so there's points where you can, if you do have to be out a week,
• 28:27
  maybe you can consolidate, certain visits together, and then the next
• 28:30
  week wouldn't have to look so crazy,
• 28:32
  or not travel at all.
• 28:33
  So there's ways to, to balance it a bit.
• 28:36
  And so that was encouraging.
• 28:37
  When I was having those conversations with sales leaders, just to see
• 28:40
  again, how it worked for them.
• 28:42
  And they said, yeah, I know you really can make it work for you,
• 28:44
  make it work for your family.
• 28:46
  It didn't seem too overbearing.
• 28:49
  And then again, I, the other thing I hadn't considered up front was the level
• 28:52
  of travel I do now, and so knowing that, already is accounted for was helpful.
• 28:57
  Jill: True.
• 28:58
  And I thought it was really interesting how you went through this journey
• 29:00
  where you were originally really trying to figure out what were the alternative
• 29:04
  routes to this so you wouldn't have to take this step and that you ultimately
• 29:08
  decided it wasn't worth the risk and that this was really a piece that leadership
• 29:13
  was going to want to see from you.
• 29:15
  Any other thoughts on how that
• 29:16
  went?
• 29:16
  Nadia: Yeah.
• 29:17
  And again, that part of that was me knowing that, I was trying to make
• 29:22
  sure I was showing up as my full self.
• 29:24
  And again, if I was coming away with this initial lesson of wanting to make sure
• 29:28
  I'm showing up for my family and ensuring I wasn't flying in the face of that, but.
• 29:33
  To that point, I did have a lot of conversations with folks internally.
• 29:36
  So even before I was having meetings with those sales leaders, I was just
• 29:40
  mentioning to see what it actually looks like a day in the life.
• 29:43
  I did have a lot of conversations with leaders just to, again,
• 29:46
  learn about their paths.
• 29:48
  What did they do?
• 29:49
  Whether they had taken this particular role or if they took other roles.
• 29:52
  Are there other things I should consider?
• 29:54
  Other parts of the organization or team?
• 29:57
  What are those potential next steps for those types of roles?
• 30:00
  So those were conversations were really enlightening and helpful.
• 30:04
  In terms of helping me, get to the decision I'm at now.
• 30:07
  Ultimately.
• 30:09
  My takeaway and the decision I've ultimately landed on for next path
• 30:12
  and journey was that it's not that it's impossible, but it's that it
• 30:17
  certainly makes it much more difficult.
• 30:20
  Do I want to have to try to be a unicorn for every next role
• 30:24
  that I'm interviewing for, right?
• 30:26
  And have to find that perfect one role with the hiring manager that may not, see
• 30:32
  the sales leadership exactly the same way.
• 30:34
  So that was part of it, just recognizing that it would just continue to be an
• 30:38
  uphill battle to move up the organization.
• 30:41
  It was a good wake up call.
• 30:42
  I think the other realization through those conversations was recognizing,
• 30:47
  again, the difficulty, not necessarily being as competitive against folks who
• 30:51
  have done, these sales leadership roles.
• 30:53
  And if I'm going to continue to compete against them will I win, Will
• 30:57
  I be able to stand out each time?
• 30:59
  And then knowing that the higher you go up the ranks, It's only going to get
• 31:04
  harder, there's fewer roles the higher you go, they're even more competitive.
• 31:09
  And by the time I get to that point, 90 percent of the folks that had this
• 31:13
  sales leadership, experience am I blocking myself out, From, potential,
• 31:18
  future advancement, et cetera.
• 31:20
  So a lot of those were my considerations and discussion points.
• 31:24
  And I was talking about that with my husband too, and he was aligned.
• 31:27
  Jill: that's really great.
• 31:27
  You got all the support from all around you for that move.
• 31:30
  That's great.
• 31:31
  Something I like to ask every guest is I feel like we all need a woman to
• 31:36
  look up to, and I'm wondering if you could share somebody that you look up
• 31:40
  to, for your leadership model or muse,
• 31:43
  Nadia: Yeah.
• 31:44
  I've been fortunate in the 16 years I've been at my company that I've had a number
• 31:48
  of great, Women leaders to look up to, and peers, so that's really enabled me.
• 31:53
  I think that's been fortunate and whether they were.
• 31:56
  Official mentors or sponsors or just, colleagues that I was able to learn from.
• 32:03
  But one that comes to mind in particular is my current sponsor actually who heads
• 32:09
  up our global, She just got promoted.
• 32:11
  So she's now our global lead all of global marketing, whole organization reports
• 32:16
  up into her and she's our group chair for that whole organization and team.
• 32:20
  And she's been with our company for many years.
• 32:23
  Our paths actually crossed way back when I was on the MedTech side.
• 32:26
  Before I joined Pharma and had the opportunity, I think, back when
• 32:30
  she was a VP and then have just been able to watch from afar and
• 32:33
  see her growth and development.
• 32:35
  The great thing first is that through the community.
• 32:38
  program I was mentioning that I was able to be put through the
• 32:41
  leadership program this past year.
• 32:43
  What they do is they actually match you with an official sponsor.
• 32:46
  And I was fortunate enough, very fortunate to be matched with her it was great
• 32:50
  to get reconnected on a deeper basis.
• 32:54
  And so aside from her success, and achievements.
• 32:57
  That's been, super impressive is her authenticity, you wouldn't necessarily,
• 33:03
  think of her any differently, she treats everyone the same, which I highly value.
• 33:08
  I think that's so critical, super authentic, relatable engaged and
• 33:11
  down to earth and she actually has a super high emotional intelligence,
• 33:16
  which I value as a leader and I think really comes through as a woman.
• 33:20
  I think that's important and it's something, a value we
• 33:22
  can bring to the workplace.
• 33:25
  It's something that sometimes maybe We might be scared to
• 33:28
  bring fully to the workplace.
• 33:30
  But I love that she's not afraid to do that.
• 33:33
  And so she brings her full self and brings that value to the
• 33:35
  team and everyone she works with.
• 33:37
  Jill: What advice would you have to women who are
• 33:39
  trying to develop mentors and sponsors as to how to find them and
• 33:44
  how to be a good mentee or sponsee.
• 33:47
  Nadia: I think it's important to,
• 33:49
  well, one, to establish the relationship, to establish the rapport.
• 33:53
  And whether that's an official program, because I know some
• 33:56
  companies have programs, like I just mentioned, I was lucky enough to
• 34:00
  be, paired with an official sponsor.
• 34:02
  But we know oftentimes those are informal relationships as well, and probably more
• 34:06
  often than not as mentees or sponsees.
• 34:10
  So establishing that relationship and that rapport.
• 34:14
  I think the other thing that's important recognize the value, and the importance
• 34:18
  of that relationship and knowing that a sponsor is someone who, will hopefully
• 34:23
  speak well of you when you're not in the room and whether those are hiring
• 34:26
  decisions or talent conversations, having that advocate for you whether you're
• 34:32
  looking for a new role or whether, again, they're just thinking, future forward.
• 34:36
  Making sure that you understand that dynamic and you're able to
• 34:41
  show up as your best self with that sponsor or that mentor.
• 34:45
  So what does that look like for me?
• 34:47
  I think it's around making sure we have the one on ones, right?
• 34:51
  And so what's the right cadence of those, which has to be determined.
• 34:54
  We're on a bi monthly basis right now.
• 34:57
  For my sponsor but also that I recognize the value of that time.
• 35:01
  And so I'm ensuring I'm prepared and I'm thinking ahead of what's going to
• 35:06
  be most beneficial for that discussion.
• 35:09
  What's timely.
• 35:10
  But also thinking through what might be beneficial for her.
• 35:13
  Is there anything she wants from our discussion as well?
• 35:17
  So it's not just a one way benefit or a one way engagement.
• 35:20
  We had this discussion up front around, giving them feedback, like what's
• 35:25
  going on Within the teams, right?
• 35:28
  Because sometimes that's not going upstream.
• 35:31
  And so being able to share that voice, I think, is 1 of the great benefits
• 35:35
  that we can provide us as sponsors.
• 35:37
  Again, recognizing that it can be it should be, a 2 way benefit at the
• 35:40
  end of the day, and I think upfront, especially if it's, if it is a more
• 35:45
  formal relationship as I was able to do through the program, I think
• 35:49
  it's really important to have it.
• 35:51
  Have a dialogue up front around, like, what are your expectations?
• 35:54
  What's your goals to get out of this relationship?
• 35:57
  And again on, on my side, but also on, on her side.
• 36:00
  And so setting that up front is really great and establishing.
• 36:03
  a personal rapport.
• 36:05
  And that'll, that can be something that takes a little time for sure.
• 36:08
  As you have more meetings and more one on ones, but having that person
• 36:12
  know not just your accomplishments but who you are as a well rounded person.
• 36:16
  I think that's important too.
• 36:17
  Jill: Yeah.
• 36:17
  And how about the informal ones that you had quite a networking strategy,
• 36:21
  you, as you've been launching into your what's next exploration?
• 36:25
  Any advice there on kind of the mentor side?
• 36:28
  Nadia: For me, It's been important to think through a bit strategically, right?
• 36:32
  Who I should connect with informally.
• 36:34
  So whether it was, I mentioned, I was having a lot of conversations, with folks.
• 36:39
  And I was thinking through what might those other pathways be.
• 36:42
  So that was strategic in terms of reaching out to some people, maybe in a part of the
• 36:46
  organization that I wanted just to learn.
• 36:48
  More about, so being strategic and folks are always, so open and happy to share
• 36:53
  and to meet which has been fantastic.
• 36:56
  So there's that showing up strategically.
• 36:58
  Again, being respectful of time.
• 37:01
  I make sure I don't set up an hour versus like 30 minutes
• 37:04
  because we're all busy, right?
• 37:05
  And certainly if it's high level people in the organization just being,
• 37:08
  realistic and respectful of their time.
• 37:11
  Having a good couple questions, right?
• 37:13
  Obviously, you want to come prepared.
• 37:14
  That's really important.
• 37:15
  So they feel some value there.
• 37:17
  And so I would always make sure.
• 37:18
  Okay.
• 37:19
  I introduced myself if I hadn't met them before, or if we had a
• 37:22
  further, relationship or rapport.
• 37:24
  So they got a sense of who I was sharing a one pager.
• 37:28
  That's not just the work, it's work and achievements, but it's also a little bit
• 37:31
  about who I am, because my goal was to also have that leader walk away with a
• 37:36
  better understanding of like who I am.
• 37:39
  What makes me unique?
• 37:40
  What values do I bring to my organization?
• 37:44
  And so that was really important.
• 37:45
  And then like I said, a couple of good questions to have, To
• 37:47
  think through the dialogue.
• 37:49
  And everyone was so nice and so receptive with that approach.
• 37:53
  And the other thing I'd say is after that first meeting, I think the most difficult
• 37:57
  sometimes can be, well, what do I do now?
• 37:59
  The first meeting might be easy because it's an intro or it's, Hey,
• 38:04
  I want to learn more about your organization or your team, but then what?
• 38:09
  And so what I always did at the end of that, that first towards the end of the
• 38:14
  call was got an assessment of, if things had, been, we vibed well, or there was
• 38:19
  follow ups or if I definitely could see, I wanted to continue to engage with this
• 38:22
  person, which was nine times out of 10.
• 38:24
  Then I either they would already offer.
• 38:26
  Let's stay connected.
• 38:27
  Maybe we can, touch base in a quarter.
• 38:29
  Or maybe I, I'd put it out there and again, folks are so receptive, but
• 38:33
  again, to think through like, what are those potential follow ups from
• 38:36
  the discussion that could make that next connection logical, or easy.
• 38:41
  And many cases we had such good discussions that they were suggesting
• 38:44
  like, oh, I'd love to hear more about, or, I had shared my pathway and so
• 38:50
  they were very interested in one of the organizations I used to work on.
• 38:53
  And so a follow up meeting would be for me just to tell them about that.
• 38:57
  So that was great.
• 38:58
  And again, that helped that helps continue the dialogue as well.
• 39:01
  And so what I've been doing is more or less on like a quarterly basis, retouching
• 39:06
  base with them, it helps to Stay connected, but also what my company is so
• 39:11
  strongly based on networking and networks.
• 39:14
  A popular expression I heard was your network is your net worth.
• 39:17
  And so I think that's so true.
• 39:19
  And making sure that authentic networks, we're staying connected and engaged.
• 39:23
  And I'd say lastly, one of the things I did following your
• 39:27
  advice was I started to actually.
• 39:29
  Spreadsheet my meetings, just to keep track of who I've been connecting with.
• 39:34
  And then that helped with the dates.
• 39:36
  And then that way I could be like, Oh, okay.
• 39:38
  It's probably around time.
• 39:39
  Maybe I can start to set up a retouch base with, with person X.
• 39:43
  And so that was really helpful just to keep track for myself.
• 39:47
  And I even, to the point of the gift of being able to ensure your, Like focused
• 39:53
  on your development and your network.
• 39:55
  Sometimes you just have to set aside the time to do it.
• 39:58
  And so I set aside time on Friday afternoons where I literally put a block
• 40:02
  on my calendar where it's like, yes, I'm closing out some business things,
• 40:05
  but this is my time where I'm making sure I set, X number of one on ones
• 40:09
  for the following, couple of weeks.
• 40:11
  And so that helped me make sure like build a muscle memory for it.
• 40:15
  So that I was ensuring I was actually living into what my goal was.
• 40:20
  Jill: you've done such an amazing job with that.
• 40:21
  You're a good example for anybody to follow and how you've done that.
• 40:25
  That's wonderful.
• 40:26
  Thank you so much for this discussion.
• 40:28
  I know you're going to be so inspiring to the people who are watching
• 40:32
  this in our audience.
• 40:33
  It's really fun to hear your story again.
• 40:35
  And even though, living through it, it's always fun
• 40:37
  to hear it again.
• 40:38
  So I want to let um, our listeners know that they can learn a little
• 40:42
  bit more about the Sister Smart program by going to sistersmart.
• 40:45
  com and downloading the private podcast, which is the Seven
• 40:49
  Step Passport to Promotion.
• 40:50
  That's what Nadia has just gone through.
• 40:52
  And I'll put a link in the show notes for that.
• 40:55
  So I would love to hear if you are watching this on YouTube let us
• 40:59
  know in the comments what you learned from this discussion or what you're
• 41:02
  taking away from Nadia's journey.
• 41:04
  And if you like learning about women's leadership and you like these topics,
• 41:09
  I would love for you to subscribe and follow us wherever you like to
• 41:13
  hear your favorite podcasts, because I'm on a mission to help more women
• 41:17
  get into leadership and stay there.
• 41:19
  So if that's aligned with you, I would love to have you on this journey.
• 41:21
  And thanks so much for being with us today, Nadia.
• 41:24
  If you're ready to fully lean into your feminine leadership and get promoted
• 41:28
  from director to vice president and beyond, hit that subscribe button so
• 41:32
  you'll get all the episodes to come and check out the recommended video here
• 41:36
  to see how women are rising up without playing by the old rules that built these
• 41:40
  male dominated industries and systems.