Latest / Mythmakers / This Ravenous Fate: Hayley Dennings, Vampires and the Harlem Renaissance

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This Ravenous Fate: Hayley Dennings, Vampires and the Harlem Renaissance · Mythmakers

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  Hello and welcome to Myth Makers. Myth Makers is the podcast for fantasy fans and fantasy
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  creatives brought to you by the Oxford Centre for Fantasy. My name is Julia Golding. I'm an
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  author but I also run the activities of our centre and today I am joined from the Bay Area
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  in the US by a wonderful new writer or new to me. We're here more how long she's been in the
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  writing game but that is Haley Dennings and I have here to share with you a wonderful
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  you see look at this production values of her new book this ravenous fate. So Haley as a way
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  of introducing yourself to us all and do you want to tell us about what were your favourite fantasy
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  rates as you were growing up? Yeah so first of all thank you so much for having this really exciting
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  it's been lovely getting to meet you and getting to know you. My favourite fantasy works
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  growing up I read so much but I think definitely one of the more informative series when I was like
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  really little where the Warriors Cats books which I guess like I don't know if you would consider
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  them technically fantasy like yeah they're like yeah yeah cat yeah but I just I love like the kind
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  of world building and like the clan dynamics there so those were definitely my first like
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  introduction to fantasy and then I think the Hunger Games like really got me into like the sci-fi
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  fantasy space I realized like how much you could do with like you know incorporating like social
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  issues and interesting commentary and that book has I feel like it's timeless like I still love it so
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  much and obviously she's still expanding on the world but yeah those are definitely my favourites
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  but there's so many I feel like I could walk forever. No but that's that's really helpful
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  because you're obviously from a younger generation and I remember the Hunger Games when it came out
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  but as a book more than my children were reading and of course the follow on with the films
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  which took a slightly different track to the books didn't they I think that is the one to
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  these things are you a fan of the film series or did you are you a book purist? I really really
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  like the films as well I think especially like catching fire I think I feel like everyone thinks
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  that that's like the best book to movie adaptations is just so good but I mean yeah the books are
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  still my favourite but I remember like being so excited when I was in middle school I was like
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  counting down the days for when the first movie came out and it still is like they're great to watch
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  now so I love both and fantastic so that's covered my second question which is really about what
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  books had influence on you and it sounds though the Hunger Games has been your sort of I know
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  your totemic book that you keep going back to and for me that's the kind of Tolkien is that for me
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  so tell us how you managed to get published because that is no easy feat so what was the path
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  that you took I've had the benefit of reading your acknowledgements at the end so I've got an
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  idea but perhaps you'd like to share with us how your journey from the first idea to actually
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  having a book out there yeah so I feel like my journey was like traditional but like a little
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  not traditional because I obviously I've like been online in these online spaces like being a
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  bookish influencer I guess some people would say like I really just go on there and I just love
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  to talk about my favorite books I don't even like see myself as that but yeah so I just I feel like
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  I kind of built a community and just one day I decided I really wanted to get into the writing
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  community specifically and that's where I found like so many other writers I learned that like this
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  where people you know learn about like agents and different publishers and I've been wanting like
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  it's always been my dream to be a published author so I feel like I probably know more than like
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  the average person who like isn't you know I'm trying to achieve this goal but yeah so like
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  definitely like joining what it was really helpful I remember like the first day that I tweeted
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  about my idea for this ravenous fate my agent now like she liked my tweet and I remember like
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  freaking out because I had just watched an interview with her like a few weeks before and I was like
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  that's my dream age I was like I need her to work with me because she's amazing and then she like
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  knew about me and I was like that's crazy and so yeah I just continued to like talk about my journey
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  on Twitter and I got like a lot of interest from editors and agents there would be some who like
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  message me asking to like read my book before I was even done with that and I was like oh this
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  is just like a real thing because at this point the ravenous fate was the fifth book that I had written
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  so I was like okay I think this time I actually need to like try to get this one published all my
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  friends like you need to stop stalling like this is the one and all the interest from the professionals
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  like in the industry I was like okay yeah it's real so I did that and then one of my mentors and
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  friends Jen Ferguson she messaged me about this opportunity with we need diverse books it's like
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  a revision workshop for black creatives and I applied for that and I got it and so I spent like
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  the summer revising my book and at this point there was like a couple agents who were like waiting
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  to read my book and I was like oh my god the pressure is on like I actually need to make this book
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  good and I need to you know actually get it out there one day and I decided to participate in a
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  Twitter pitch competition called DVPET and that's I think when I got like the most interest and when
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  people were like really exciting it felt really real and then a little bit after that I query
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  got my agent and then we went on sub got my book deal so yes it's like a long long process but
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  also people can be on sub or in the query churches for a long time so I'm really lucky that for me
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  it did not last that long and I think honestly I just tried to use like a lot of the resources
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  I had at hand like social media and like I'm being able to show publishers and agents that there
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  were people interested in my book definitely really helped but it was a long process like that was
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  my fifth book for a long time I didn't think that it was going to happen because the book right
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  before then I tried to send it to a revision workshop and it was rejected and I was like well maybe
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  I'm just not meant to be a writer like maybe this is not for me and then the book I decided to
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  write after that was this ravenous fate and now it's coming out in two weeks so it all worked out
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  and congratulations brilliant and that's fine this is broadcast I think your book will be out so
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  that will be you'll be able to with your listening to this you don't have to wait two weeks you'll
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  be able to get it now which I strongly encourage you to do so and it was interesting listening to you
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  talking about having written four other books first I've just been recommending the Neil Geiman
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  talk he gave the Tolkien at 50 talk at Oxford just recently in the summer and he quoted Ray Bradbury
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  the science fiction writer saying every writer has a that no what is it a million a million bad words
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  to get out of them before they're ready to be published I don't know if that's strictly true
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  but it's quite a nice thought for those of you who have been around this circle of being rejected
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  that actually maybe that's just some of your million that you need to get out your system before
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  you get the book that has the excitement around it okay so tell us a little about this wonderful
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  idea you've had this ravenous fate I kind of it's a bit like your elevator pitch but tell us what
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  we would be reading if we pick it up or listen to it or however we have our books these days
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  yeah so I'd call this ravenous fate my south of vampire book because it follows a vampire
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  and a vampire hunter in 1920s Harlem who are forced to work together to solve a mysterious
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  string of murders that might be connected to a cure for vampirism which in the book I call it
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  reaperhood they're called reapers and yeah young adult historical fantasy lots of
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  lead and on tree and crime and yarning because the main characters are hellhead friends that
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  turned into enemies and now must grapple with all the shared history between them while
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  having to work together to defeat a greater evil so it's a lot it's dark but
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  pulled to the bram of like a lot of black history that I think is really important to kind of
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  resurface because the main reason I wrote this book was because I felt like there are a lot of parts
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  of our history that are kind of brushed over and the Harlem Renaissance was one of those things
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  hugely like celebrated time period where blackness was really celebrated and I feel like a lot of
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  times when black history is brought up or taught at least like in my classrooms where I went to
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  school it was always a focus on our trauma so I've always been really fascinated with the Harlem
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  Renaissance and how it's like a celebration of blackness and you know but I still obviously
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  when writing the book wanted to be honest to you know everything going on during that time
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  but it was really fun to get to explore the fun parts of you know the expansion of the culture
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  and all the things that black people were accomplishing so yeah that's my long pitch
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  I know that's great and I don't know much about the Harlem Renaissance other than
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  the occasional film particularly recently there's been a few films about that period but it was
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  a lot of it was new to me so I it was great to read but I are picking up on the theme of blackness
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  the first thing struck me is your dedication where you dedicate it to black girls you are
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  and I love that of course you are you're more than you know exactly I don't want any
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  that's just wonderful dedication I loved it but it may be think about your choice to have all
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  the main characters from within the black community in Harlem um am I writing connecting
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  the dedication to that choice because I can imagine a world of like central casting or
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  publishers saying well it's all very well having these strong black characters but let's also
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  include for diversity you know um a white character or a Asian character a main character because
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  you do have these characters there but not as the main characters and am I right that there is a
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  connection between this enough to be these characters from this world you don't have to
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  do a sort of social engineering of balance yeah yeah no definitely I think like it's interesting
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  my dedication I like thought really long and hard about it for a long time because it was like this is
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  my first book and I want it to obviously be something meaningful so I was like I need to do something
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  like really artsy or whatever and then I was like no what is the main message that I want for this
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  book it's that I want people who look like me like when I was younger and I didn't have books that
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  people who look like me and then I want them to know that their stories matter and you know they are
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  heard they're seen and you know they're loved so that definitely was a large part of it and
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  I mean it's interesting that you mentioned that because like growing up when I first started writing
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  I didn't write about black people or black girls I wrote about white characters because I didn't
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  know that I could write about black people because all the books that were around me like at my
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  school my libraries like they had people that do look like me so I didn't know it was possible for
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  someone who looked like me to be a hero or like even the villain or like any part of the story
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  that was really important to me whenever I sat out and I actually started writing my own books
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  my mom like one day I think she read one of my stories when I was younger and she's like why don't
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  we write a black girl and I was like I didn't know I could do that so that changed my life
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  and then looking one step further though because yeah there was a stage particularly if you look
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  back at Hollywood films there was the stage the cringy stage of the black best friend you know the
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  sort of the awareness was growing in the casting people that you needed to include a more diverse
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  but it ended up being we can't make it the main character or make it the best friend so high school
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  musical for example is this classic example of that but you've just said right that's not in the
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  same way as we read books which might have a kind of all white cast like the original version of
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  the very Potter stories you see fine that's that's how it is and in your in your way you're also
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  normalizing the fact that you don't have to you can get past that of course there is a theme of
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  blackness in it but it's just they're just the characters right yeah yeah I'm so fast the labels
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  they're wonderful wonderful characters so thank you for doing that it was great um also we should
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  mention that um the the other sort of marginalized coming more into the center sort of theme is
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  that of a same-sex attraction because your two characters are from both women both girls
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  so I'm imagining it's important to you that you've seen more stories to allow people to think of
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  same-sex attraction stories is that am I yeah where did that come out 100% honestly I just like
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  even like from my own identity to just queerness is a big part of my life and I think that
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  I feel like a lot of times in publishing they usually allow like one marginalization they're like
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  you can be black or you can be gay but like if you're both that's too much though for this book I
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  was just like no I want to tell a story that feels the most real and natural to me and like
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  there are a lot of different components for this for me but like the at the heart of the story I
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  was like it's two girls who have like a really intense relationship and so I always knew it was
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  going to be between them because it was kind of based on like feelings that I had surrounding
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  my own friendship breakup which as I've like been in this community and like been promoting my
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  book and talking about a friendship breakup I've realized I'm like this is like a really big thing
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  in queer specifically sapphic communities where they have like an intense relationship with
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  their friend and then you know the feelings are a bit confusing especially when you're younger
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  and so that's like really interesting for me to get to explore especially for like a younger
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  audience where feelings and emotions are so big and like even the littlest things that up and
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  feel like it's the end of the world and then I think also like specifically for like vampire
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  literature caramelize one of the first like well-known vampire books and that book is supposed to be
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  like a warning against homosexuality and specifically like lesbianism the vampire is seen as a monster
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  who's like tunting the main character and corrupting her and so getting to write this book that's
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  kind of like a response to that and saying that that's not the case that it's okay if you know
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  you're queer and you're different it doesn't make you a monster but it's also really important
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  to me as well so yeah getting just getting to write that I like feel completely free and like you
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  said like normalizing it so it's not you know just someone picks up this book and it's like this is
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  like a block lesbian book like I can read it for a diversity or whatever you know like this is
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  just a book that anyone can read and just like have fun with and see themselves in.
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  I kind of was I sort of wondered if I even should ask these of these questions because I think
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  I so much more read about vampirism really and and friendship but I thought the identity thing
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  is is there and I thought well I need to ask you it's a bit like you know why it's it would be odd
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  but I do want to stress that in case someone listen to this has got ruined the sick being a vampire
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  isn't equated to being queer at all it's just that that friend has fallen to this repudum
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  it's nothing it's not to do with her sexual identity it's just this other that's she could
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  have been anything yeah I don't want to make people think that there's a connection there
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  right so let's turn to vampire story which is it's just great fun so
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  this cuts across the racial tensions of the era because anyone become a reaper
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  and let's think more about your characterisation of the interval jazz era can you
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  just talk a little bit more about what you like about the vampire presence in that era because
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  it seems to be a really good fit because of all the sort of like the seediness and the
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  species and anyway over to you because you're the you are through this yeah no I love that question
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  all these questions have been so good but I mean I just like you said I think it just fit the
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  aesthetic very well and when I was like doing research on the Harlem Renaissance and the 1920s
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  so many but like so much of the time one of the lines that like stuck out to me a lot is like
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  this is one of the most morally corrupt periods of US history and I was like yeah like
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  this is so fascinating there's so much like bad stuff going on in the shadows and like
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  still things that like the government is trying to hide and that you know people don't want
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  to teach kids about in history class and so that was really interesting to me I really wanted to
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  lean into the darkness aspect so I thought it would be cool to kind of have these like contrasting
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  aesthetics of like the glitz and the glamour but then also like kind of the blood and the shadows
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  are kind of you know lurking amongst all that decadence and so vampires definitely fit into that
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  because I think vampires like when you look at them like they look pretty human at least like
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  some of them you know depending on the lore that you believe in but then like you get to know them
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  or like you look closely or you let them bring you into the shadows and they turn up to be
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  something incredibly dangerous and you know violent and I thought it was like a really interesting
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  imagery and like a theme to follow because I think like for so much of US history specifically
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  the US has tried to like make itself seem like it's this great place of dreams or people can come
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  and like achieve all their dreams and be successful and like be happy but there are all these things
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  that they kind of like brush under the rug these terrible terrible things that they've done to like
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  marginalize communities and I just thought like I want to tell that story where it's honest about
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  you know how great the US seems on the outside but then when you really get into it there are a lot
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  of terrible things lurking beneath and I feel like the Harlem Renaissance is perfect for that because
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  yeah there's this great migration where black people are going to the north to like at a better
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  life for themselves but like if that's not an easy fix like they're still having these struggles
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  they are still left out and having to you know make a lot of sacrifices to even make a living
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  and so yeah I think it just like fit the aesthetic perfectly and I saw someone else online talking
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  about how like the rise in vampire fiction is kind of correlated with the I guess like like our state
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  of like how we feel nowadays with like the economic decline and just overall like how things are
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  kind of terrible in the world and I was like yeah it's really interesting because I think horror as
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  a genre has always been a really great way to reflect how society is feeling and so yeah getting
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  to dive into that with vampires using that as a way to kind of depict this like hidden aspect
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  of US history and you know how it spreads kind of like a poison like and to have like racism
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  in US and intergenerational trauma within black communities I feel like it was just the perfect way
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  to explore that I think monsters and general immortality the great way to look at humanity through
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  a new lens that kind of reveals these new aspects yeah because if you think about what the
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  I mean obviously the vampires an old old old story but when it started coming into literature
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  started around the time of Byron and there was a feeling of the gentleman vampire at that stage
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  and it's associated with feudalism and then you go on to the brown stoker version of Dracula
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  so it's a looking at a sort of fear of fear of women the vampire brides it's the fear the fear of
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  sexual sexuality in a way yeah yeah so this sort of unbridled passion of the vampire in a way our
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  modern vampires are relatively tidied up in the sort of vampire fiction that you get in
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  Christine of England and all that so you seem quite good guys well they very often they split
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  them into two sorts there's the kind of sexy ones who are not devolved and there's the devolving
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  sort so there's this sense of the breakdown of the human body quite often it's fascinating the
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  number of different as you say we keep reinventing the vampire and loading onto it all sorts of
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  stuff think about the historical moment you've said some fascinating things already about the jazz
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  era but I was wondering whether any specific historical figures who lie behind some of your
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  characters that perhaps we don't particularly meet here in the UK people we wouldn't have heard of
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  that once you want to acknowledge or point us to to find more out out about after this
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  uh they're honestly is I didn't really base any of my characters off of real people and this
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  kind of worked out hard for me doing the historical part because obviously I wanted to like remain
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  true to history but at the same time it's like fantasy and there's a lot of stuff happening that
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  didn't actually happen and I kind of struggled with knowing like how to balance that but all of my
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  characters are like very original like Lisa and Elise are their own people I would say probably like
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  the like Stephen is more so based on you know the rich like socialites at the time no one really
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  specific but then also like for the politicians I did try to do more research on like the political
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  state at the time and like what people were valuing and so yeah a lot of that I didn't really base
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  anyone on real historical figures just because I'm like so specific about my character is and I was
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  like I don't want to like get anything crossed here but there's I don't know maybe some of the
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  singers or whatever at the period I had a really holiday soundtrack in my head I don't know if that's
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  bit late but that's what was yeah no there's yeah there I mean they're definitely like some I
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  I guess you'd call them like cameos for some characters like more in the background like Alan
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  Locke I think he was mentioned if the line wasn't cut I don't remember if it was and then there's
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  like some descriptions of like jazz music for a singer I don't know I'm like blanking on what her name
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  is but there's like a whole like line about like her singing and it's like Laila's walking past the
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  club where she's supposed to be performing and then there are lines about like writers being in
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  the background like you know picking up on the gossip writing down inspiration for stories was
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  supposed to be a call out to like Zora Neal Hurston so yeah there's definitely some references
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  there but I don't know I think like I'm so weird with historical because I'm like I have like
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  more of a focus on the places I think than the actual people and so I more so I wanted to focus
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  on like the contributions that the people made and like how I can incorporate that in like
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  their movements in the story rather than like the people themselves but there's definitely like
• 24:21
  some inspiration there of course because they have huge influence over the time period but yeah
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  really love that question yeah so um the cotton club I've heard of was the name and is that
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  am I right in thinking that's a real place yeah good good I was just slightly worried I was
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  uneducated about the Harlem Renaissance wouldn't probably get it my facts right okay so I was
• 24:43
  going to say I just wanted to point out what amazing prose writer you are because when I first
• 24:49
  picked up this book um it's got some cover quotes which wouldn't immediately entice me into it
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  because I'm slightly squeak well squeamish I am not slightly so things that say sweetly vicious
• 24:59
  I think oh well my delicate sensibilities be able to cope and I totally did cope because um
• 25:07
  you just write so beautifully and have you had some creative writing training or is it just because
• 25:11
  you read a lot and you've absorbed and developed your own style tell us a little bit about how
• 25:16
  you write and your approach to style your voice I suppose well first of all thank you that's
• 25:24
  very nice and like I don't want to raise to people compliment my prose I'm always kind of shocked
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  because I feel like that's not one of my strengths it is it's been it's thank you
• 25:35
  been amazing hearing that feedback and honestly yeah I think it's just because I read a lot because
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  like I have a lot owned I love like beautiful prose so I tend to gravitate more towards writers
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  and books that have that and I love to like study them I love poetry so that's another thing that
• 25:54
  I think would definitely have influenced my writing I was an English major English and French major
• 26:00
  in college and I like English has always been my favorite subject I wanted to do creative writing but
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  they like didn't have that at my school so I couldn't really do it so I don't know if I was like
• 26:09
  specifically trained in creative writing more so like literature analysis and stuff like that but
• 26:16
  I would say that absolutely helped me as well like reading outside of the usual genres that I read
• 26:22
  and like learning the various different types of like writing sentence structure all of that has
• 26:27
  influenced me a lot and like as for my writing process I just I don't know I'm I'm very much
• 26:36
  applauded so I have to have everything planned out when I first came up with the idea for this book
• 26:41
  I think one of the first things that came to me was ending for the entire duology so always
• 26:46
  known how the story is going to conclude and that definitely helps me like write everything
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  going out to there like figuring out the theme that I want running through the whole story and
• 26:56
  also like how I want my prose to you know fit a setting and I think specifically for this book
• 27:02
  I was like this time and aesthetic is so specific so I feel like my prose needs to match that
• 27:09
  away and I remember I read jazz by Tony Morrison and she talked about having a similar thought and how
• 27:16
  he wanted her writing style to be reminiscent of the energy of the time and I was like I don't know how
• 27:21
  she succeeded in doing that obviously Tony Morrison the mind of a mastermind but yeah again like but
• 27:27
  that's just like that's what I do for my writing is I I feel like I have to read really far and like do
• 27:32
  all this research and like really understand how I want the full like style and like like emotions
• 27:40
  and vibes of the book to come out because it really is it's like more than just the pitch
• 27:44
  and the aesthetic but it's really down to like the specific word you use and so yeah that really
• 27:51
  is my process but I am also a perfectionist so in edits I'm constantly tweaking things and
• 27:59
  trying to make sure that it reads right so I'm glad that you found it to be really nice and
• 28:06
  that other people do as well because that tells me that I did a good enough job you certainly did
• 28:11
  and I agree about the perfectionism I have that I just did the very last round of edits on a book
• 28:17
  that's coming out in October and I was looking back at my email and I'm talking about the placement
• 28:22
  of a comma in one line I'm thinking they'll be getting that thinking gosh she's so you know
• 28:29
  go away anyway it mattered to me so I thought I'd mention it so do you have oh I should ask you
• 28:38
  before I ask you for your fantasy tip but you mentioned it's a duology do you have you finished
• 28:42
  part two and is there a publication date part two yeah we don't have the exact date yet I've written
• 28:49
  the first draft and I'm currently doing my edits we're aiming for an August 2025 release so I
• 28:57
  guess as long as I can finish these edits on time hopefully that'll still be the case but yeah
• 29:04
  book two and a lot it's very hard like I've talked to a lot of writers and they're all like book two
• 29:10
  is the worst I think you're gonna have the worst time and I was like no it's fine it's just a sequel
• 29:14
  like I'm just continuing what I already have no it's it's been really hard but it is a lot of fun
• 29:19
  kind of bittersweet because obviously I have to say goodbye to these characters but I don't know
• 29:24
  I think duologies are so perfect in like length and like story arcs so it's been really cool
• 29:31
  and like a fun challenge getting to really test my skills and how I can make sure these characters
• 29:36
  are developed their relationships are developed and that I give everyone an ending that is worthy
• 29:41
  and good so been a lot by I'm getting through it well that sounds great they look forward to part two
• 29:49
  so going back to what I mentioned about a fantasy tip and this could be something you've read
• 29:54
  something you've watched or just something that came to you whilst you were writing your own fantasy
• 29:59
  something you think would help her an aspiring writer I picked up a few tips along the way like
• 30:08
  Reid Tony Morrison I mean I'm hoping people are making notes but there's anything else that
• 30:15
  perhaps you've watched recently or or read recently that may do you look again at your own writing
• 30:21
  yeah honestly I think the number one thing that's helped me is going outside of writing and studying
• 30:30
  like story structures of other stories that you really really love and just understanding
• 30:34
  what they do and why it works for you so for me arcane on Netflix is I think like probably the
• 30:41
  most brilliant show ever and I anytime I see any part of it I'm just constantly inspired by you
• 30:48
  know the way that they've laid everything out and like the next season is coming out literally
• 30:54
  just a trailer the piece of art so I think like I don't know whenever people say like you should
• 30:59
  read a lot yes I agree like Reid Tony Morrison I think everyone should read Tony Morrison because
• 31:03
  she's brilliant but I think it's also important to get into other mediums because there's so many
• 31:09
  different ways to tell a story and if you like you can learn a lot from other genres like
• 31:15
  I always say that horror and horror tropes are so fascinating and smart and the way that they
• 31:22
  depict are able to depict certain themes and issues and so I always kind of slip like little horror
• 31:29
  things into my books no matter well not like a romance book but like my fantasy books for sure
• 31:35
  have like a lot of horror aspect and I'm aware that like not everyone's gonna want to do that
• 31:39
  but I think just looking at the way that they use certain like genre conventions or tropes is
• 31:46
  really really helpful so that's always my number one tip read broadly and widely but also like
• 31:53
  don't be afraid to take time to like watch stuff as well like animated things tv shows movies
• 31:59
  also like listen to music read poetry that's like my number one thing I would say poetry
• 32:04
  and other genres outside of what you're writing for sure thank you that's a great tip
• 32:10
  right so just a little bit of fantasy imagination now we always end with where in all the fantasy
• 32:16
  world is the best place for something and we've we've covered quite a few you know best
• 32:20
  wood best tavern best library and so on and I thought it'd be quite fun to choose any fantasy
• 32:28
  universe where you have something of an underground club like a speed easy and it doesn't actually
• 32:34
  have to exist already in that fantasy world but you can just like I don't remember there being one
• 32:39
  in wind in the willows but let's you know we could put one in there just for the fun of it
• 32:44
  and where would you like to open up your speed easy and throw up in the doors for people to come in
• 32:51
  I love this question and I feel like I have two different answers
• 32:55
  like give my two yeah all right so first I want to say like the world of arcane because I think
• 33:03
  especially the under city likes on they kind of have stuff like a speed easy but that's why I think
• 33:09
  it would be very fitting you know people can walk in and there's like a lot of corrupt
• 33:15
  crazy stuff going on and I think would be very fitting but then I also want to say
• 33:19
  something in the world of like spirited away which I know like the aesthetics aren't the same
• 33:24
  but I think that's why it's so fascinating because maybe if I opened up a speed easy there
• 33:30
  people would for once at least in my world have a break and be able to relax I think the world
• 33:37
  of spirited away is very beautiful and it would be so interesting to like see the contrast of like
• 33:42
  a speed easy versus like the spirit world now spirited away and all the creatures that are
• 33:47
  frequenting those so yeah that's my answer I really loved spirited away just because they're so
• 33:52
  different all the creatures and the sort of the quietness of some of the moments like when she's
• 33:57
  sitting on the bus or train whatever it is I just love that yeah it's got a real poetry to it
• 34:05
  I think I would open my speed easy in Alice's Wonderland I mentioned this year in advance because
• 34:13
  I think that most of Alice happens during the daytime and everyone needs somewhere to go at night
• 34:20
  and I think how more those characters like the mad hatter he seems to fit right in at the bar
• 34:26
  he wouldn't leave he wouldn't go back to his tea party and the hair and the dormatique in fact they
• 34:33
  feel like customers already I'm in just so yeah and you can get the the duck chest or the red
• 34:41
  queen singing at the bigger diva yeah no I think that'd be great fun so my speak easy is in
• 34:47
  Alice in Wonderland well I'd love to see that now thank you so much Hayley and look forward to read
• 34:56
  well this ravenous fate is out now by the time this broad podcast goes out but also will we look
• 35:03
  forward to part two has that got a title what's the part two called it does but I don't think I'm
• 35:09
  going to allow to share it to be to be confirmed part two but it's written so we know you don't have
• 35:15
  to worry that it won't ever complete so it's it's on its way thank you very much and thank you
• 35:19
  for joining us on Mythmakers thank you for having me I had the best time and was lovely getting to talk
• 35:25
  to you and yeah I'm excited
• 35:27
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• 35:40
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