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Why We Hear God: Conversation · Beyond the Sermon

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  You're listening to Beyond the Sermon, the podcast The First
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  Methodist Church in Collingswood, NJ.
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  On our podcast, the goal is not just to share the sermons we've
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  preached, but to go beyond the sermon and talk about what we're
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  learning and what God is doing in US and in our community.
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  You can find more information about our church at
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  fumccollingswood.org. Thanks for listening.
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  Are we almost done this series? We are almost almost done this
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  series. What?
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  Do you mean almost almost 2? Almost.
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  Yeah, so we've got two more weeks, two more weeks, two more
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  weeks in this series. Are you, are you tired of
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  hearing about how we can hear from God?
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  I'm tired of hearing about it because I'm tired of hearing
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  from you. Fair.
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  I want to hear from God and I, I don't know how.
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  I don't know how a sermon series like this translates to
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  practice. And it's not that we haven't
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  given practical things, but it's like we're in the institution
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  and the rhythms of church. And then it's like, go spend
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  personal time with him and listen and surrender your will
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  to his. And it's like, well, I just did
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  my God time at church, so I don't know.
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  But then we had the prayer time of prayer in service, which
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  we've never done before. Which was part of trying to help
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  give people another avenue of, of experiencing how God might
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  speak and changing up our prayer time just from someone's going
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  to stand up front and talk to God for three, 4-5 minutes.
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  Be honest with yourself 6. 78 OK 10 minutes as if that one person
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  was just so like having the time to hear from scripture respond
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  in worship and kind of creating some space for people to hear
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  what God was saying and having multiple people kind of respond
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  in prayer. It was an attempt or a beginning
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  to trying to to give people maybe another picture of there
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  and how that could happen. I've really enjoyed that because
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  of kind of what we're talking about and trying to figure out
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  how do we do it and not, not just like give advice on how to
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  do it or reasonings as to why it's important and to do it, but
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  like creating a space for us as a congregation to do it, which I
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  really loved. And obviously our prayer
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  sessions on Tuesday evenings from 7:00 to 8:00 and Thursday
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  mornings from 6:30 to 7:30 AM are our continued opportunities
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  to do that in. Yeah, and we talked about it
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  before in regard to our prayer sessions.
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  But, you know, doing this and worship, it's not like we're
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  doing something new, right? Our prayer sessions, this prayer
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  time was actually modeled on that ancient practice of Lectio
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  divina. And we've talked about that.
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  We don't have to talk about that again.
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  But just kind of reminding people like this isn't some
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  innovation of a way we can pray. We're just going back to some of
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  the the ancient practices of the church and bringing them into
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  the modern time. Yeah.
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  Which has been really, really good and I and I liked it for
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  all the reasons I've already said, but I'm hoping that it
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  because when we think of like a worship service, we kind of in
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  our mind have what it should be, the order of what it should be,
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  what it should include. And I don't, I think it's more
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  of the what parts of it do I like and which parts of it do I
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  feel better or receive something from versus just like going
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  before the Lord. And because we just get getting
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  other than we're we're habitual creatures and can get so
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  comfortable and expectant of the rhythms that we like and prefer.
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  And so I really liked the breaking of our normal rhythm in
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  worship. Yeah.
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  And now that we've kind of established what our normal
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  unified worship service looks like, I think you might see more
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  things where we try some different things from time to
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  time. I'd love to do a prayer time
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  like this again in the future. I'd love to get to the point
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  where we could open it up for people in the congregation to,
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  if they feel led to pray something in response to the
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  Scripture and what God's saying, then you know there'd be an
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  opportunity for them to come up and be part of that as well.
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  And that, that to me, is reminiscent of the best worship
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  experience I've ever had. And it's not what was done, but
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  it was God in it was new room. 2 years ago was three years ago
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  when they had the panel and then it just like broke out into
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  spontaneous worship. I think that was three years
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  ago. It was the fall after the
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  revival at Asbury. So what year was that?
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  Was that 2823? 22 yeah, 23 I think.
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  Yeah, so it. Was because it was the first
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  year it was in. Texas.
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  Texas, Yeah, yeah. Could you describe that for us?
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  What happened? I know it was my favorite words
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  of experience, but. Describe what happened when they
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  were talking. That was the panel with those
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  who had been present and involved in stewarding that
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  outpouring at Asbury, right? Yes, so they're.
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  I got you. Never mind.
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  I actually share my. It's so vivid in my memory.
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  Yeah, it's OK, They were. Doing get there, but yeah.
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  They were better. They were doing a panel about
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  that. And part of the preconditions
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  for the revival was this ceremony.
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  Remembering, I forget, was it? People who had been sold in.
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  Slavery yes, and they went and did they go to a graveyard?
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  I forget like location. They went to a specific like
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  location to hold the ceremony that was significant.
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  And they had they had the this gentleman sing the black
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  national anthem at the event the day before the revival
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  outpouring. They were like, actually, would
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  you mind singing it for us here? And he starts singing it and
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  this just flow of that the band feeling led to get up and start
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  doing worship. Random people in the crowd going
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  up and reading scripture and it just and people going up and
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  praying. None of it was planned.
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  They were just supposed to talk. He wasn't even supposed to sing
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  at all. And then they were supposed to
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  be done and it went on. I don't even know how long it
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  went on for, but like the presence of God and it felt like
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  time wasn't real. Like my judgment of time was
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  just not perceivable. It could have been 5 minutes, it
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  could have been 4 hours, but you just didn't want to leave the
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  moment of what was happening and, and it was unlike anything
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  I've ever experienced in my life and holy, but it was one of
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  those like just spirit leading every single part, people going
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  up and then afterwards they were like, so that wasn't planned at
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  all. We now have to rearrange the
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  conference schedule for the rest of the for the rest of the day.
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  Give us. A few minutes while we figure
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  out what's next. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  To have another reason just why I love New room is the
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  humbleness and allow God to do what he wants to do in that time
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  and shift our plans to whatever doing.
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  Yeah, it's it's most beautiful when he's leading it.
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  Yeah, and even like in the moment.
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  Not according to the program, which I'm sure people have
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  gotten upset with whenever I switch things up post bulletin
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  and I say the bulletin's just a suggestion.
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  If you're interested that video of the time leading, not the
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  whole prayer time that. Followed but OK.
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  The panel interview George is singing the lift every voice.
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  OK. That's available on the
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  Awakening library. Website that in the.
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  Note we'll put that in the show notes so people can check that
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  out. They also have a another video
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  available that we'll find that talks about the importance of
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  that day before yeah, that happened and how that kind of
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  created a context of repentance and openness to the Spirit that
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  came into that Chapel service and then the days that followed
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  0. That's beautiful.
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  Yeah. I'm blessed for that.
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  And I know that God is doing things and lining things up here
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  and all that, but to get not just people that were scheduled
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  to be on the stage and leading things on Sunday mornings, but
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  people in the pews to be used and leading as the Spirit leads.
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  Yeah, I think one of the things that I've been sensing from God
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  and it hasn't been like a audible voice conversation.
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  You know, here's where you need to move the worship services.
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  But it's something I've been sensing as we've been planning
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  worship services and and moving more into this one unified
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  service is just the most important thing we do in
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  worship. Isn't listening to me talk.
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  Amen. I'm going to get a whole chorus.
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  Singing Amen is an effect. You can get the Hallelujah
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  chords in there if you want to a.
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  Full song. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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  But that we're coming together as God's people to participate
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  in worship. Like, it's not just we come and
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  sing a couple songs that get us in the mood to listen to God's
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  Word. Worship is to be participatory.
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  It's supposed to be all of us together.
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  And so, you know, in that sense, Sunday's service felt really
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  good because we had that long time of prayer together with
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  worship mixed in and Scripture and all that.
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  We had communion at the end, which is much more participatory
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  and active. And I only preached for a few
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  minutes, you know, with the scripture reading and my closing
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  prayer is less than 20 minutes all together.
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  And it felt good, like the service felt like more like
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  where I think maybe God might want to take us then.
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  It just. Here's the order of worship up
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  until we get to the important part where somebody preaches.
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  Yeah, I'm not against preaching. I'm not trying to shirk my
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  responsibility of preaching. That's not it.
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  But. Scott just coming up with new
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  ways to do less. But I think there's something
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  more God wants to do in that flexibility of how we structure
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  our services. Well, I I did have a couple of
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  notes here from Yeah, well, your the service and your sermon.
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  So I wanted to know of a testimony where you said yes to
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  something of God and then you were surprised of the ripples
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  that you perceived or learned from about later that stemmed
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  from that. Yes.
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  And you can't cop out and say yes to being the pastor here and
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  then just name good things about that.
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  I mean, I think a very close to home example is is how we ended
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  up with one worship service instead of the two.
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  That was not in my heart at all. I had no intention of making
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  that shift specifically when we did it.
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  I could see it happening somewhere down the road, but
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  that started when I got a phone call from someone who was
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  concerned about the future of our church and specifically the
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  future of the first service. And, you know, the fact that
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  people in our church weren't learning hymns and how
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  meaningful hymns were to them and all that kind of stuff.
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  And they asked, like, can will you give me permission to bring
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  this up to church council? And I kind of gave that person
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  my stance on where things were and why they were the way they
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  were. I said, but yes, like you can,
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  I'm not going to hold it against you if you bring that up.
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  And in the midst of that phone conversation I was having with
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  them, it would have been very easy to just squash it and shut
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  it down because it wasn't the vision I had at that moment.
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  You know, that conversation on the phone led to a church
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  council conversation, which led to a group of people coming
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  together to talk about what our options were and settling in on
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  this idea that we really think that now is the, it's the right
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  time to go to 1 service. And this is what that one
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  service could look like. And none of that started with
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  me. Even though, you know, I might
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  be the lead pastor, I was not leading any of that process.
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  I I had to come into that process, but it didn't start
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  with me. And now I can clearly see it was
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  it was God, you know, stir in the pot and pushing me in a
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  direction that I wasn't ready to go.
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  But I think he's doing beautiful things through it in these days.
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  Yeah. So that's the that's one example
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  of ripples that I've seen just here in the last year or so.
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  But what about you? Anything that you can think of.
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  But like even this Cuba trip that I'm going on, it started
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  two years. Ago.
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  Because I think I went. Yeah.
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  Springs yeah, spring of 24 is when I went to that like Global
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  Methodist Young Pastors Conference and they were
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  promoting this pastoral cohort flame fellows.
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  And I felt at that time that like God was leading me to join
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  this thing. And even though I was like kind
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  of against it because I was like, God, I'm busy.
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  I got kids, I got church, I got this is before I was even in
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  seminary and I signed up, didn't hear anything for months,
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  reached out. I was like, hey, we're supposed
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  to be like starting in a week. And like I got things cleared
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  with the church SPRC permission to do all this stuff.
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  And they were like, sorry, you're the only one that signed
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  up this year. And they like every year have
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  dozen plus applications for this thing.
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  And well, here comes my annoying kids.
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  You'll get to hear them on the podcast and, and it involved
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  like monthly meetings and then going to Memphis, seeing church
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  revivals in Memphis, going to Cuba, church revival in Cuba
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  with like healings and stuff happening regularly, which is
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  not part of the context. I grew up in the church,
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  fascinated by that, believe in that, which is having
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  experienced that regularly. You're in that type of
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  environment and and then also like a conference.
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  And so they're like, we're not having it, but we've kind of
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  already set things up for Cuban might still be doing that.
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  If you want to just go for that trip.
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  I'll be like, yeah, let me know about that.
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  And then that trip fell through and then we got to this fall.
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  It was like they reached out and they're like, hey, we saved you
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  a spot. We have a cohort going and we
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  wanted to make sure that you were able to be a part of it.
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  It's like, I got seminary now. I can't do all this.
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  I can't do all this, but I'm still really interested in that
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  Cuba trip if it'd be at all possible for me to just join you
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  for that part, even though I'm not part of the actual cohort.
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  They said they they said yes. I threw it out to SPRC about me,
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  me paying to go. And they they are like, I mean,
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  want Rebecca to go if that's possible.
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  I didn't think about her. I was trying to get away from
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  her and then and then talk to them, they say that's fine.
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  And it's like wanted Rebecca to pray about it, not just going
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  for the sake of going. And as Rebecca and I are praying
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  about it, at one point it was just like very clear to me,
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  Rebecca needs to go. And so I was like, Rebecca, you
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  need to go. And so trusted my guidance on
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  that. We signed up.
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  And then so I'm just thinking we're going to go visit
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  churches. That's pretty much it.
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  Like visit churches, hear all the testimonies and experience
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  what God's doing down there. Yeah.
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  So then we start getting to the trip, and you can Google
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  political tensions in Cuba and what's happening right now.
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  And so I wasn't expecting for us to be leaving in this context.
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  So it's it shifted kind of how we're viewing the trip, how
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  we're expecting the trip, how we can help our brothers and
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  sisters down there and the communities down there and what
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  they're suffering through with our small time there and the
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  things that we can provide. So yeah, we're just very, very
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  excited for what God's going to. But like seeing the ripples of
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  what God started and put on my heart two years ago, leading us
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  to this trip at this time with Rebecca, right?
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  And knowing that it's going to be fruitful and he's going to
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  use it for as good as just. I'm excited to see more of the
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  ripples of that because of just witnessing just leading up to
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  it. I also really loved how you
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  ended your. I think it was part of your
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  prayer, your closing prayer was the we say yes, what's your
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  question? Yeah.
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  And so I think to closeout our time when you're done this
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  podcast, to sincerely surrender your will to God in a moment of
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  prayer, say, Lord, I'm giving you my yes, what's the question?
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  And just listen and wait. Do that after I get one of my
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  sons to say something cute into a mic.
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  Can you say goodbye, everybody? Goodbye everybody.