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Sonnie Linebarger: Finding Fulfillment in Bold Possibility · The Bold Lounge

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: My name is Leigh Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: Every week, we'll hear from someone who has taken a leap or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Whether they face challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be freed.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Today I have Sunny Leinberger.
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Sunny is a maverick in the hospice space, stitching together the hospice space, stitching together the fabric of leadership, innovation and care, with the position of a seasoned nurse and the vision of a CEO.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: With over two decades in the trenches of healthcare, sunny has journeyed from CNA to CEO, a path that's anything but linear.
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: She's the CEO for Cadre Hospice and is disrupting the industry through world-class end-of-life care.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: She is also the host of the Evoke Greatness podcast.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Ranked in the top 3% globally, her podcast is a light for the lifelong learners and those hungry for the real lessons behind leadership and success.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Sunny's philosophy People matter.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Cultivating a culture that breathes empathy and empowerment is not just her passion but her mission Through mentorship, development and transformation.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Sunny isn't just in the business of healthcare, she's in the business of human potential.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the podcast.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: Excited to be here with you, leigh yeah.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: So we had some free conversation and I'm excited to kind of get into the nitty gritty of being bold and what bold looks like in your life.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: So let's just start with your definition.
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: How do you define bold?
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think bold is, as I kind of step back and think about it bold is that exploration of what's possible for ourselves, and I think that doesn't even require I think some people get scared by that and think it requires action.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: But before action, that doesn't even require.
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I think some people get scared by that and think it requires action.
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: But before action comes, the thought around it.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Right, we have to explore first, is this you know, what is possible, like in my mind, what is possible, and so I think that piece to me that's really when I started exploring what was possible, started to see a complete shift in my life, and so it's not even about necessarily the action, even the thought, the exploration of thought around what's possible for people.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: So sometimes even just thinking makes people nervous, right.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, where did that come from?
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: That thought came up and like that feels bold, that feels like change, that feels like I'll need to do something about that.
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: Right, and even just that coming up, I think, is a moment for people not to push away, and so I love that you bring it up, that it's not always like a move, and that's where I I generally talk about.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: Bold moves are on a continuum one being very, very quiet, which is the one you may be just defined, to the ones that everybody sees, and maybe louder.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So when you think of your bold moment and a moment in your life that kind of resonates with that definition, what comes up for you?
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say my current season.
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: I'm feeling really bold in my current season and I think different seasons bring different things for us.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: But just stepping in, reflecting back on my journey, as you mentioned in the intro, I started out my career as a CNA.
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: For people who don't know what that is, it's a nursing assistant.
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: It's the person who changes people's bed linens and, for the elderly, helps bathe them Things like that that are not any high ranking type of work.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It's really the bottom rung, but it's some of the most meaningful work that I did.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: And to think that I started there and that I just stepped into a CEO role, there's a lot of exploring what's possible for me in my mind and envisioning what that looks like, how I'm going to grow this company, the team that I'm building, and so I think I'm really feeling like a season of ascension or boldness right now.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: And why do you call it season?
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: So let me you know, a lot of people talk about different phases of their life or levels of their life.
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: For you, it's a season, so what does the season mean, particularly for you?
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so a season for me is it's one season that leads up to the next season, right?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: So it's ever evolving and I think right now it's really being present in where I am and evaluating all of the things that are around me.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: So this new role, the transition back to traveling a bit and being in a space, a corporate space, that I was in previously after stepping out of an entrepreneurial role, and so this season is an adjustment at home, this season is an adjustment in this role.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: It's really just like all encompassing where I am right now and in this season I'm preparing myself for the next season.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: So it's like a continual time of being present, but also preparation for the next season and, I think, gratitude for the previous season.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, so you weren't always in the space you're in now.
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: So obviously there's a lot in between going from CNA to CEO and in life experience and also in our, you know, professional world as well.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: So, along the way, kind of you and I remember seeing you and you and I have talked about this you had a LinkedIn post and that's where we initially connected and you were advocating and that's to me the post.
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember which post it was, but you were kind of like in the car and you're like getting ready to go in and really advocate, I think, for your patients inside, and so it was just a really cute post and showed your personality and also your sense of humor and also what you were passionate about.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: So, it was one of those really good posts and so for me, like I still remember that of like, oh wow, she's really in the right space for what she loves to do, like she's aligned, and that was like at that point I was looking for alignment.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: I had left, you know, the corporate world and was starting my entrepreneurial journey.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: So for you, from that space that you were in there to the season now, you did have some moments of you know figuring things out or you know defining what's next for you.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: What happened between that post or that moment in time to where you are now, and what have you learned about yourself in those seasons that you went through before now?
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think, just rewinding back a little bit, I was in the corporate space for a long period of time been in healthcare for 20 years, a little over 20 years and I was the chief operating officer for a national hospice company and did 33 acquisitions inside three and a half years.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: And I mean we had our roller skates on and we were growing.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: There was a lot happening and I was also so caught up in that that I was letting my health erode and I was approaching my wall.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: A number of things occurred that I thought I don't know if I can keep up with this, and ended up going to the doctor and have a thyroid issue, and that is exacerbated by stress, and so, gee, why can't I keep my levels?
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: Great, well, because I'm constantly in this environment of stress.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: So I really had to step back and kind of evaluate my life and my role in large company.
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: Would you say you were burnt out or not?
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Absolutely Okay, absolutely yeah, but it's almost hard to recognize that you're burnt out in the moment.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I mean, I know you know that all too well, everyone else knows it.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: But you like that's how I felt, you know, you know you've heard my story, so it was extreme level of burnout that I was like, oh well, I'll just keep doing the same thing over and over, and so a little similarity in the sense of it was my health for me, like you, a different, obviously thing.
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: But I think kind of got to the point where like well, I have to like there is no choice, I have to do something different.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: You hit the wall and you don't quite realize you hit the wall until other people recognize you're sliding down the wall at that point in time when other people are like.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Hey, and, and so that's where I was, and I decided to step away from that role, which was really hard for me because it was like I felt like I'd worked my whole life towards that role.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So I decided to step back out of that and I thought what am I going to do?
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: I'm I'm bound by a non-compete, you know.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: So there's I'm a little bit limited in this space where I feel I've got expertise, and so I ended up figuring it out.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: I ended up starting my own company doing hospice, consulting, executive coaching.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I had my podcast, I did some keynote speaking, and so I stayed in that space for about two years, but that was a really challenging transition because I was used to though it was what pulled me away from my corporate role.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: We're used to that chaos that we're in, and I think that was a big challenge was going from the state of chaos to then being home.
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: I had run a healthcare company through COVID, and so then, all of a sudden, we're kind of coming out of the pandemic, things are starting to normalize and I'm at home, working by myself, starting this company, really, if I'm honest, having a little clue as to what I was doing, and I hired a coach right away and what my coach said to me about 60 days in.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: She said, sunny, I have to tell you this jail cell that you're in the door is open.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: You'd have to make the decision to walk out of it.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: And I thought, oh wow, so I was keeping myself in this state of, like internal chaos because I didn't know how to transition out of the chaos and into this new environment where I didn't have 10 calls a day and I wasn't working till 7 PM.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: There are some days, as an entrepreneur, you may not have any calls, and so it was this battling with like, am I completely failing at this?
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: Okay, no, I'm getting business, I'm creating things, and it was just.
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: It was a really weird place to be, and it was probably about three months that it took me to transition to that space before I started feeling like, okay, I'm creating my own new pace.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: But I think one of the most important things that I learned in that and again, like by way of, I'm such a fan of coaching and what that can bring If you're really open to the process my coach said to me, something that you need to get really clear on is your non-negotiables Cause I think those lines were blurred in this, in this corporate world, and you did what had to be done.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: You, you, you figured it out and I think that was what I did a lot of work on was understanding what my non-negotiables were, and if I was ever going to explore going back into it, I would have to make sure that all of those boxes were checked, that I was crystal clear on communicating and articulating those, and so I was able to kind of build the construct under my non-negotiables and what I wanted for the future, and I think that really helped me step into, when the time was right, a really amazing opportunity that I feel like now was built for me.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: So you went from leading others to really having to lead yourself.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: Right In my mind, when I went through that phase of having a day very, very defined for me of what I had to do, where I needed to be, who I needed to support, you know, it was very, very clear to whoa like I don't, you know, like you said, I don't have to have 20 meetings today, I don't have to travel, I don't have to do anything I don't want to do.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: But what is it that I want to do?
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: And who am I?
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: I was having this.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: Like who the heck am I now?
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: You know, I was 48 at that point and I was like I could be anything I want to be.
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: What do I want to do?
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Like you said, kind of a recalibration of your non negotiables and for me, my values.
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: Like I was very misaligned with my values of how I spent my time, my health, my relationships, like I had work to do on every level of health possible.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: So in that sense, it was like realigning to that and also realizing that I missed all the signs when I was out of alignment, because I think that's one thing that I know, you realize, but I know to make sure others is like just because you leave one place doesn't mean you won't have those same habits that come back.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: That could burn you out again.
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: Even as an entrepreneur, you can burn yourself out.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: So I think being able to also have some time around that is really important.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So for you, what became a non-negotiable, or what were some of your non-negotiables that you really wanted to make sure as you move forward in this season and forward into your life, that weren't going to be lost again or maybe not be as defined as you know they have been in the past.
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: They'll be out there in bold letters versus maybe just to the side.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the um, the connection that I had had early on in my career was I have to go a hundred miles an hour and I have to sacrifice things.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I'm going to have to sacrifice time with my family and fortunately, early on in my career my husband was like, hey, go after it, go ahead, like I'll hold down things at home, and my boys were little when I started in a larger cork rolls and I missed some things and I had my priorities skewed for a while.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: I thought in order to, I was so filled with ambition and drive that I thought I had to sacrifice.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Well, we felt like we had to make a choice right.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: I remember my mom and my brother and everyone, like our little tribe, helping take care of Maya when she was tiny.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: So I was still in school, I was getting my master's, I, you know, I was working two jobs like you know, like you're doing what you have to do, and it almost feels like you don't, at least I felt.
• 13:23
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you ever felt like, like you didn't have a choice.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: You either went for the role, the degree, the job, or you had a family.
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's hopefully better now, but I don't know.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so early on, I think I missed things and I had my priorities skewed.
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: What I realized over that time was I determine those priorities and I can choose to go all in on work and and be not what my family needs me to be by way of being a mom, a wife, a leader at home or I'm and this is a thing that I think is still maybe not the most popular opinion.
• 14:00
  Speaker 2: I believe wholeheartedly that we can have it all.
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: I think what that looks like is a little different for everyone, but I really believe that we can have it all, and so today, how I look at it is, my non-negotiables are if I have priorities at home, if I have events for my kids, that's going to come first, and so I want to be really clear about it.
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Let me make sure that you know everyone's aligned and on the same page and at the same time.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: I was just having an interview with someone the other day for a role that I'm hiring for and they said well, you know, I'm totally okay with travel.
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: I just want to let you know like there's one, one thing that's really important to me, and that's my daughter's prom, and it's later in the year, but that's something I want to make sure I'm really clear about, and I said I would be concerned if you didn't say that, because that's the culture that we're building here at Cadre Hospice your non-negotiables.
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: You should be able to feel really clear and strong about articulating those and saying, hey, this is what's really important to me.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: If your company, if your leader, doesn't support that, you should probably look at that opportunity.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: But I said, there's things for me.
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: If I have something important going on, I'm going to let you guys know that I'm not going to be able to attend something, because I think when we really build ourselves up on a strong sense of support and foundation personally, that allows us to flourish and pour in professionally.
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: So being able to advocate for yourself, I think is really, really important hearing that and you know, good for that person and saying, yeah, what was important to them.
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: Because I don't know if we all have done that.
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: I know I certainly didn't do that earlier on in my career and, like you said, you miss things and you think about the things that you could have but you can't go back to, but you can change, moving forward.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: So I think that's one of the key things for folks to hear is like, what do you want to talk about now that?
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: What is your non negotiable and how can you talk about it, whether it's with you know, whether it's in your relationships or whether it's at your work or some of the things that you may be doing personally.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: Like, just really think about those non negotiables and you can reset.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And I think that's the possibility here that you know you're sharing and certainly in the journey of me getting realigned.
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: Certainly there, when you think about leading yourself versus leading others, what is the thing that was the most difficult for you or more challenging that you may have thought when you, you know, had that transitional time.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something that became a theme.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: So I had a lot of opportunities that I explored over the couple of years that I was working on my own and each one of those, as I had conversations, what I thought was there has to be something compelling enough to pull me out of what I'm doing now to drive me to do something else.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Right, that only makes sense.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: But the theme as I would be engaging in conversations about around opportunities was I mean, I really love what I'm doing.
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: I got to this place, this cadence, where I was really enjoying what I was doing.
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: I got to choose who I was going to work for, work with.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I got to choose what I was going to charge.
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: I mean I really was running the show right, and what I kept coming back to was the one part where I didn't feel like my cup was totally filled up was I love.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: I am a passionate advocate for development of others.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Growing and developing a team and building people where they can flourish on their own.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: That is like one of my favorite things in the world and I didn't have that.
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: And what I think we don't talk about enough is there's the.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: You know it can be lonely as an entrepreneur.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I mean it can be lonely as a CEO or a COO or in any leadership role.
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: The higher you get, there's this time of loneliness where it's like, okay, end of the day, when I'm debriefing, I'm debriefing with me or I'm debriefing with my husband, right, there's not that engagement with a team, but more than anything, it was the piece of like pouring into people and I could go in and I would did consulting and so I'd go in and I pour into somebody else's team, but it wasn't mine.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And there's a part of me, that of my heart and my leadership, that I really get fulfillment out of pouring into and developing others.
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: And I didn't have that for that period of time in a way that fulfilled me.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: And so today, as I sit here, it's like my cup is so filled Because there was a period of time where I was really recognizing what was what was lacking, or at least what I felt like was lacking, and so I think that kind of bit of a struggle with loneliness or lack of team was something that really challenged me.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and even like just a couple months ago, when we were talking about this more in depth in September, like, even like honing in on it and knowing that this was something you were taking action on, was something you were already doing at that point, but then also making sure that it was going to be the right fit, like you said, something that met what you had defined as what you were seeking you know whether it's a new role or the type of work and also you were able to sustain and maintain your non-negotiables right, so you kind of had the rubric for the move right To see the possibility of what was next.
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: One of the hardest things for people to do is even to see possibility, see that they could change, see that they can think about something differently or get curious about something In your mind when you know, either going from into the entrepreneurial world or from out, you know, out of it into the CEO role that you're in now, what helped you walk through forward, into some of those moments which, for me, there's fear, there's, you know, uncertainty, there's.
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: Everything's not going to be a slam dunk like.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: That's how I look at it, but that, to me, is my definition of bold as you still move forward.
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: Anyway, what were some of the things that helped you see the possibility and maybe move through some of those emotions if you had them?
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, I think let me back up a little bit and frame move through some of those emotions if you had them.
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah Well, I think let me back up a little bit and frame this through the lens of probably most of my life.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I had a pretty fixed mindset and of course I didn't know that.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know the difference between a fixed or growth mindset at the time.
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: So I was probably 35 before I really started leaning into personal development.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: So for the first 35 years of my life had no idea, really thought my circumstances, you know, were what was going to be right, like they was already in the cards for whatever it was.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I wasn't going to be able to change that.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: And so I discovered a podcast and I discovered personal development.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And in the last 10 years my life has so flourished in ways where I really believe that, where we put forth energy and effort and hard work and we can get our mind to a place where we can explore what's possible.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Literally almost nothing is impossible.
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: And so I think, as I would have thought 10 years ago, I would have never thought that I would be in a C-suite position, I would have never thought that I would be building a hospice company, I would have never thought any of these things were possible.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: And so I think for the last 10 years I've been so on fire for knowing what is possible and continuing to push those boundaries that it's like you know I'm I feel like I'm just getting started at that Like that is so exciting to me.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: But what's also exciting to me is like the ability along the way to show people.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Number one being super vulnerable and allowing people to see like I have screwed up so many things, I have made so many poor choices in times and led people wrong, but I can have the hindsight now to see that the self-awareness to talk about it, the vulnerability to bring that up, but also to show other people like that doesn't make you fit into whatever box.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: Right, that's a part of life and it's a part of lessons and it's a part of our growth.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: So I wholeheartedly embrace all the screw ups and the potholes that I stepped in along the way, because now I get to show people look, I got to this by doing with all of these, all of these potholes that I stepped in.
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: That's what I talked about on the podcast, that's what I talk.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: That was the whole reason behind starting it and with my team, as I'm growing people, I'm giving them permission to make choices that maybe a year from now, you'll go.
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can't believe I made that choice and it's still okay, and we learn to do hard things better, right?
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: We don't have to be perfect, we don't have to show up fully, fully prepared.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: We don't always have to have the right answers.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: It's about really leaning in and figuring out, like, how can I make sure that I make the best possible decision, that I know how to right now, you know, from a hiring perspective, from a promoting people, from where I'm going to build the next hospice location, like all of those things, I just feel today like almost nothing, like limitless.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: Yeahless because of what I've gone through.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think being able to fail and know that you can learn from it is is a huge gift, right?
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: Right, I did not know you had a fixed mindset.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: So, like, obviously, I came into like seeing you or meeting you at a point, probably within, certainly within the last 10 years, within the last three years, I think you know.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: So what was the moment or how did you realize that it was fixed and that you needed to kind of see that there was something bigger or something possible?
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: But it might not be certain and you might fail.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: So the very first, like I said, when I was 35 and I discovered a podcast and it was Lewis Howes podcast and it was through Rory Vaden.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: I had heard Rory Vaden on something that led me to Lewis Howes school of greatness podcast and it was through Rory Vaden.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I had heard Rory Vaden on something that led me to Lewis house school of greatness podcast, okay, and he was talking like early on he was talking about Carol Dweck's book mindset and he really went into the fact around fixed and growth mindset and what does that mean?
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: I was like, okay, I have to go get this book.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: It wasn't even a big reader then.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh, I got to go get this book.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: And then I was fascinated early on in my career.
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: I like really just kind of navigating a career.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: I loved psychology.
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: That was what I wanted to major in, because I was so curious about how and why people did the things that they did.
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: This relit a fire under the curiosity that I have about how and why we do the things that we do, and so that exploration then led to more personal development and I just was like started eating up everything I could.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so it kind of opened the door for you to see it a different way, and I had to just step back and say, wow, until you know what those two things really mean, between the differences in a growth and fixed mindset, I don't even know that you can fully identify with one or the other right.
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: And so, once I was looking at, I didn't think I could really change my circumstances.
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: I thought I was a kid who was brought up by a single parent whose parents divorced, who was, you know, brought up in poverty, and like that was just who I was.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: That would be what the outcome of my life would be.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden I'm like, wait a second, I can influence the things that happen next and I I hope that the last 10 years I've been exhausting, you know, all of the resources, like my goal is to just leave here with an absolutely empty tank, both for my own life and for the lives of others, just in showing people again like you're only confined by your own limitations, by what you think in your own mind by your mind, by your belief, right, and I think that's something for me like when I made that change from corporate to being an entrepreneur, I definitely had a fixed mindset for what was a potential job I could have and I think, outside of that but you can imagine how much this impacts the rest of your life when you think you can't really do anything but what you've been doing.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Outside of that, I felt like I had a growth mindset.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: I knew that if I failed and you know, I knew, you know I could do a lot of things.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: But when it came to my job, it was like wow, I went to school for a very long time, I've been doing this for a very long time over 20 years, I'm a chief like how could I change, Right, you know, I just got to suck it up and finish it out and I just got to a point where I couldn't.
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: But I think for me I had to have a belief of out I will be successful, people will want to work with me.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: You know, between your ears can be a really scary place sometimes about how you speak or talk to yourself or even think of the possibility.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: So I always say, like when I made that change, which was a very big change in my life.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: It was fueled by belief, belief I could figure it out, belief I could do it.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: And when you're an entrepreneur, like you had mentioned just a couple minutes ago, sometimes you don't feel like you know what you're doing on a daily basis, because you're really just, you know, charting new territory or pioneering something that maybe someone hasn't done or done like you're doing it.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: So I think you know seeing the possibility.
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: Also, you become an example for others to see right, and I think you're obviously doing that.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You're an example of that and I think people should also realize that their journey is theirs and it shouldn't be, you know, compared to mine or yours or anyone else's like make it personal.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: And I think that's also something that came into play was what does success look like?
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: Right Cause, for me, the way I was raised was like it's, you know, having a 401k, having insurance, having a stable job in a corporate setting where you know you're covered and in that sense, like for me, and especially now in today's world, like that doesn't mean stable anymore and so, but that's how I was raised.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So this was a very risky thing, a very I will use the word.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: I felt selfish leaving, you know, so I was choosing me.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: You know I'm a mom, I'm a wife.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Like I have, you know, like I got big responsibilities, you know.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: So how could I do this?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: So I had to actually redefine success.
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like you had to do that, or would that ever come into play what success meant when you were making this change?
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: You know, from the corporate world to entrepreneur and even entrepreneur back to really leading, you know, a new organization.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I had to go.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I definitely the shift from corporate to entrepreneurial space.
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: I think I, as I look back, identity was also a big thing.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: You mentioned that earlier.
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: It's the sense of identity, or even like a fear around losing relevance.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: So it was like, okay, what?
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: What is my identity?
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: How do I define, like?
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: How do I define success?
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: How do I find define failure Right?
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: How do I know if I'm succeeding?
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: And I got to a place where I had to say, okay, number one there has to be a sense of impact.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: I have to feel like I'm positively impacting something.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: People matter to me, culture matters to me, and so that's why impact ranks so high on my list.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: I want to make that positive impact, that positive ripple wherever I go, and that's, I think that's the intent that I lead with.
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: And so am I making a positive impact that makes me feel successful?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: Am I making a positive impact not just in the workplace, at home?
• 28:40
  Speaker 2: Because I think sometimes we feel like these are two separate worlds, when they're not.
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: We exist in this one big world and we have to decide where we lean.
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: Toys when I was little, there was this like oil and water toy and it was like you shake it up and it'll start to separate in it and then you can see like the colored water or the colored oil floating on top of the water.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: And I liken it to that because it's this fluid balance, right?
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you're gonna like there is no perfect balance 5050.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: That's just not how it works.
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: So you have to understand and be really aware of what those priorities are.
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: And so sometimes you're going to lean a little bit heavier.
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: That fluid balance is going to lean a little bit more professionally to your work, to your role, and sometimes it's going to have to lean a little heavier at home.
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: But if you have that fluid balance where you're navigating both of those in one bed of water, I think that is where you can say, okay, am I making an impact in both of these places?
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: Because that's again that's what's really important to me.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: And then, second of all, I think, do I feel like I have a sense of fulfillment around what I'm doing?
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Because I think oftentimes we do the thing, because we're told to do the thing, we think we have to do the thing, but is that thing checking our box of fulfillment?
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And so, again, it took me a little while to get my bearings in that new space.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: But once I did, it was like, okay, I have these consulting jobs, I'm working with these companies, I'm working with these leaders, I'm coaching others.
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: That really, again, that checks that box.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'm positively impacting things.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: I feel like my sharing of my experiences and knowledge is positively impacting things.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Able to be more present at home, I feel like I'm impacting things there.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: All of that equates to a sense of fulfillment.
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: So I think, again, it comes down to those non-negotiables.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: I probably didn't define success that way because I was just in the rat race I think that's where my mind was previously.
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: So it allowed me to reset my own pace, recalibrate my speed and get back to the things that were truly of importance to me in my life.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I think we have to go back to what our faith or our values, what sets that foundation for us and for me.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Those things, my faith, my values those are always going to be the foundation to build upon.
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, and making sure that you bring them back into focus when they get fuzzy, right.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: So I think you know mine were definitely like I just couldn't even see them anymore because I was just working so hard.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: And I think, getting them back into focus and I think, realizing that success is defined by you and not by somebody else, right, I think a lot of the times, certainly in the corporate world, it was the next role, the next title, the next level of pay, and who then tells me I'm good enough to go to the next one and what do I need to do?
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: Like, what's the rubric?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Like that's the game I was playing of.
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Like how do I do it all?
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Make sure I'm, you know, advancing and doing what I need to do professionally to get to the next level.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: But you get to the next level and sometimes you're at the highest one.
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: You know, like I was a chief in my early forties and I was like what's next?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: You know?
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: there is no higher peak.
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: Like this is probably it for a little while at least.
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: You know, and I don't know.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Like I certainly wasn't sure I was filling that at my.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: My cup was full Right, so you can't just keep moving the finish line too.
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: If that's, that was probably the first indicator of of like I'm not sure this is success, but I was still defining my life by it for some reason.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: So I kind of missed some of that signal there.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And then I think some of the other signals were just around the misalignment and how I would just work harder or longer and fix it and it worked, but not realizing it was more of a bandaid than something that would last forever.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: Short term, non-sustainable fix yeah exactly Exactly.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: So, as we close out, I think one of the things that around the conversation was just seeing possibility and being able to do or think about or get curious about something that is a change or may ultimately mean you need to take action or do something differently.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: What would be your guidance or advice for someone to take that first step of curiosity and thinking, just thinking about the possibility?
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: What would be your advice to them?
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think people should explore those wild thoughts, those wild dreams that they have, that they'd never say out loud, the ones that people you feel like people would laugh at you about.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: That seems so far-fetched.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Start exploring those in your mind and you know I'm a big fan of, like gratitude journals or journaling in general, because I think what we put down on paper, it's that memorization right, like we're absorbing all of these things.
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: You can even call it manifestation.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: But I think what we put down in a present form starts to have our mind think differently about it.
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: And so far before I was doing a lot of things that I'm doing today, I was writing those as if I were existing in those in present form.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: And so I think from your mind, like you don't even have to say these things out loud or act on them yet, but think about them.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Start exploring wild ideas.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: What would be those if you knew you couldn't fail?
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: What would you do?
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: And then write, start writing them down, start writing some things down and entertaining them, because it's more about baby steps than it is these gigantic steps 100%.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: And so go from thinking about it to writing some things down.
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: You may find yourself starting to think about exploring those a little bit more and whatever small action you can take that leads you outside of your place of comfort.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: I think sometimes we mistake this place of comfort for like a safe place, and it's really not.
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: I mean, there is so much life outside of our comfort zone, and so I would encourage people to really explore.
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: If you could put one tiptoe outside of your zone of comfort, how would you do that?
• 34:30
  Speaker 2: What would that feel like?
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Like you almost have to feel the sense of trepidation, or your heart's starting to pound, or your face starting to flush at the mere thought of putting your toe outside of that comfort zone to explore that wild idea.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: And every time you do that, your brain is going to say hey, wait a second, you're getting a little more brave, you're getting a little more bold.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: How do we get you to step into this?
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: And it starts believing it before.
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: Probably, you start believing it, and so that's what I would encourage people to do.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I always say, like your bold step leads to more confidence, which leads to you feeling you have more agency in your life, or control of your next steps, which leads to the next bold step, which leads to confidence and agency.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: So it's like, once the wheels are turning, it's kind of like the train has left the station and there is so much power in writing it down and there you know, there's a recent book by Dr Doty D-O-T-Y and really talking about the manifestation process and how it actually rewires your brain and there's certain steps.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: It's not just writing it down, but it's like saying it out loud, visualizing it and continually doing that.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: It really does literally start to rewire your brain of how you think about yourself and you think about the possibility.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: So I love that you bring that up.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on the Bold Lounge, for sharing your inspiring, bold journey.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: All the information about Sunny, how to contact her and follow her on LinkedIn and all her other socials is below.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much, sunny, my pleasure.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge podcast.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking a leap, you will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.