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Transcript

Oldboy (2003) · Left of the Projector

• 0:15
  Track 3: Hello, and welcome to Left of the Projector. I am your host,
• 0:18
  Track 3: Ward, back at it again with another film discussion from the left.
• 0:21
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• 0:24
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• 0:27
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• 0:33
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• 0:37
  Track 3: Wherever you're listening, give us a rating and subscribe, and you'll get notified
• 0:41
  Track 3: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. Now, on to the show.
• 0:53
  Track 3: this week we take a bit of a turn from the christmas films to discuss old boy
• 0:57
  Track 3: the second movie in park chan wook's vengeance trilogy it was released in 2003
• 1:02
  Track 3: and while successful making 17 million on a budget of 3 million it has gained
• 1:06
  Track 3: a cult status since hopefully you watched this prior to listening because it's
• 1:10
  Track 3: a hell of a film one of my favorites and there will be spoilers.
• 1:13
  Track 3: This film is arguably one of the best revenge films if not the best Father Day films of all time.
• 1:19
  bill: Bill and Evan?
• 1:21
  bill: Jesus Christ. Oh my God. I couldn't help myself.
• 1:28
  Track 3: I couldn't help myself.
• 1:31
  bill: Oh my God. Jesus Christ. I watched that movie like an hour ago so you know.
• 1:40
  Track 3: I just finished it for like, I don't know, like the for.
• 1:45
  bill: The first time.
• 1:46
  Track 3: Poor Bill.
• 1:47
  bill: See, Ward has watched it before, so he's like, I just finished it, but he's watched it.
• 1:51
  bill: I just finished it for the first time. I have never watched this movie before.
• 1:57
  Evan: And for, for listeners, I would say like mild content warning ish. Yes. Right. No.
• 2:05
  bill: Yeah. So there's a content warning. Yeah.
• 2:07
  Track 3: Yeah. I'd say there's some content warnings involved with this. It's very, uh, I mean.
• 2:12
  bill: We'll put the content warning in the show notes. We will put content warning
• 2:15
  bill: in the show notes, specifically stuff that.
• 2:18
  Evan: And for, and generally speaking, like anytime you, for
• 2:22
  Evan: listeners who may or may not watch the movie before they
• 2:25
  Evan: listen i would highly recommend you if you haven't to watch the movie because
• 2:30
  Evan: i think there's some episodes where you can like watch this you can listen to
• 2:33
  Evan: a random like action movie with arnold schwarzenegger and who cares if you've
• 2:37
  Evan: seen it like whatever but i think in a case like this you want to see this aside
• 2:40
  Evan: from the fact that it's really good yeah.
• 2:42
  Track 3: It's incredible movie one of my favorites this is probably like my 20th time
• 2:47
  Track 3: watching it that i just finished.
• 2:48
  bill: Jesus christ i will never watch this movie again not that like it's just it's
• 2:55
  bill: not the kind of movie that like I would like seek out to watch again this is
• 2:59
  bill: the kind of movie I'm like I've watched it once I don't need to watch this again like I get it.
• 3:03
  Evan: This is like my third or fourth watch.
• 3:05
  Track 3: Completely fair.
• 3:06
  bill: Also, I have like a phobia about breaking teeth.
• 3:09
  bill: So before, before ever got to the real fucking shocker, just the teeth thing
• 3:17
  bill: alone, that had me squirming. Like that is the one.
• 3:21
  Track 3: Oh yeah.
• 3:21
  bill: The one thing of like body horror kind of stuff that will make me react viscerally.
• 3:27
  bill: Anything involving the teeth.
• 3:29
  Evan: I feel the same way actually.
• 3:30
  bill: It freaks me the fuck out.
• 3:31
  Evan: Teeth and like needles two faces are the two things that i can't like i can
• 3:36
  Evan: watch almost any kind of horror that happens but those two things for me also
• 3:40
  Evan: are just like feeling here really.
• 3:43
  bill: Get yeah they get me yeah oh.
• 3:46
  Track 3: It's either the great time.
• 3:47
  Evan: Well so bill i guess you kind of already gave your reaction and ward already
• 3:52
  Evan: said it's you know you've seen this many many times so One.
• 3:58
  Track 3: Of my favorites.
• 3:59
  Evan: Yeah, I have seen other Park Chan-wook's films, and I would recommend,
• 4:05
  Evan: you know, there's a number of really good ones.
• 4:07
  Evan: You know, I would say the whole, like, Vengeance trilogy is good.
• 4:10
  Evan: And there's actually a new film that I was actually just talking about before
• 4:12
  Evan: you joined, Bill, was No Other Choice, which is based on a novel called The Axe by Donald Westlake.
• 4:19
  Evan: It's already out in Korea, but it's going to come out in the United States very shortly.
• 4:23
  Evan: I think it would be a very worthwhile exploration. it's about well I don't want to say too much.
• 4:28
  Track 3: Yeah no I'm very excited for it as well because I don't actually know what the Korean version.
• 4:31
  Evan: Is about I know what the book's about.
• 4:32
  Track 3: Yeah we're probably going to end up covering it on here though,
• 4:35
  Track 3: Should we go through a, uh, like a plot synopsis overview?
• 4:41
  Evan: Yeah. Do you want to say, Ward, you've seen this?
• 4:43
  bill: Yeah, Ward, this is your...
• 4:44
  Track 3: I ain't got nothing pulled up, so I mean...
• 4:47
  bill: I don't think you need pulled up to go through the plot synopsis.
• 4:49
  Track 3: Yeah, I don't need anything. Yeah, no. We got, we follow Ode-su, uh, who is a drunkard,
• 4:56
  Track 3: you know, down on his luck, fucking misses daughter's birthday,
• 5:00
  Track 3: sitting in a police station because he's so fucking drunk, and then,
• 5:04
  Track 3: uh, whisked away to a private prison
• 5:07
  Track 3: in a styled in a motel room for the next 15 fucking years where he gets his
• 5:12
  Track 3: hair cut and goes fucking crazy because no one talks to him no one answers why
• 5:19
  Track 3: he's in prison for 15 years the music plays the gas comes he falls asleep shit happens to him he.
• 5:27
  Evan: Eats lots of dumplings.
• 5:28
  Track 3: He eats so many dumplings yeah some poor guy gets fucked out of a chopstick, um...
• 5:34
  Track 3: Then he built some inspiration that, like, Daesu is, like, going to escape,
• 5:38
  Track 3: and then they just let him go.
• 5:40
  bill: I love that. I love the fact that he is about to escape, and then they let him go.
• 5:47
  bill: And, like, it is never implied that that was, like, part of the torture,
• 5:52
  bill: that they knew he was about to escape.
• 5:53
  bill: It just seems pure happenstance, and it's so fucked up.
• 5:58
  Evan: See, I didn't see it that way. They clearly had a camera inside of the room, right?
• 6:03
  bill: I guess that's true.
• 6:04
  Evan: Yes they do have so i assume they knew he was really close to escaping and they're
• 6:08
  Evan: like let's fuck with him even more and let him go right now and it's also the
• 6:12
  Evan: way the way they let him go to also initially feels like it's a dream like you
• 6:16
  Evan: don't know that it's true but then it is but.
• 6:19
  bill: He also at the end um uh wu jin like acknowledges that like he did release him
• 6:29
  bill: on that day specifically like that was so like it.
• 6:33
  Track 3: Is i think it was like perfect yeah he's he's gonna be out in like a few months
• 6:41
  Track 3: he's but he's almost out it's fine all right just let him keep going,
• 6:47
  Track 3: That's how I always felt about it.
• 6:49
  Evan: They also could keep him more drugged to make sure he doesn't get too close to escaping too early.
• 6:55
  Evan: They have full control over him. They gas him, hypnotize him.
• 6:59
  Evan: They do all kinds of weird torture.
• 7:02
  Evan: He's also training inside by punching a silhouette of a person on a wall.
• 7:07
  Evan: Clearly breaks his wrist.
• 7:09
  Evan: He becomes a really fit fighter inside there. because what else he got to do?
• 7:16
  Track 3: He devotes himself to training to eventually hope to find whoever put him in there.
• 7:21
  Evan: And watched a lot of TV.
• 7:22
  Track 3: So much TV. Well, I mean, that's the only thing. That's the only thing he had.
• 7:26
  Track 3: There's no window, no one to tell him why he's there or besides to shove food
• 7:33
  Track 3: through a door and kick him in the face.
• 7:35
  Track 3: Like that was his human interaction. That was his church. That was his community. That was his lover.
• 7:41
  bill: Yeah, that was that whole... That whole sequence that he talks about with TV,
• 7:47
  bill: that is your partner, your lover, your child, your church.
• 7:51
  Track 3: That's the average American.
• 7:52
  bill: That was so, yeah.
• 7:53
  Track 3: Right now. That's the average American's lifestyle right now.
• 7:56
  bill: It was such a-
• 7:59
  Track 3: No i mean they got phone when he first goes in oh when he first goes in yeah i think yeah like.
• 8:05
  Evan: 89 88 and then he comes out in 2003 when they have like.
• 8:09
  Track 3: Flip phones i like how they got 9 11 in the uh like the new sequences you can't skip 9 11 but like at.
• 8:15
  bill: The same time no chiron for it either
• 8:18
  bill: like it gets in comparison to other
• 8:21
  bill: things it gets so much less attention
• 8:24
  bill: which i found very interesting because
• 8:28
  bill: of the way america has you know as
• 8:31
  bill: we all know like just inflated that into such a thing and the rest of the world
• 8:37
  bill: like outside of the countries that were invaded and bombed and millions of their
• 8:41
  bill: civilians murdered in response to it um other countries are like yeah this thing
• 8:47
  bill: happened over there and then they just move right on.
• 8:50
  Track 3: So it's funny you say that because i just so
• 8:53
  Track 3: i just finished watching old boy but right before that i
• 8:56
  Track 3: watched the josh brolin 2013 remake
• 8:59
  Track 3: of old boy right before because i said i was going to talk some shit about josh
• 9:03
  Track 3: brolin and i re-watched it and uh honestly josh roland tried his best they just
• 9:08
  Track 3: it was just a bad movie holy fuck it was a bad movie but they also have a like
• 9:15
  Track 3: tv news sequence in the american one where it also has 9-11.
• 9:20
  Track 3: But then it also comes back to George Bush doing the Mission Accomplished speech.
• 9:26
  Track 3: on the aircraft carrier and it's like oh yeah this is american one so it comes back to that makes.
• 9:31
  bill: More sense.
• 9:31
  Track 3: Versus like the south korean one it's 9-11 and then like oh shit south korea
• 9:37
  Track 3: won the world cup that's sick.
• 9:38
  bill: Yes yes that's what it was like it was literally was 9-11 no chyron no commentary
• 9:45
  bill: nothing world cup and like blaring yeah like everywhere it's like world cup
• 9:50
  bill: yeah it was like that is hilarious did.
• 9:54
  Evan: You also catch one of the notes they put in there too is the like the big imf loan.
• 9:59
  bill: Bailout yes south.
• 10:01
  Evan: Korea in what is it.
• 10:02
  bill: Like 1997.
• 10:03
  Evan: I think because i and i think that's important only because like the context
• 10:09
  Evan: of as americans most people don't really understand sort of the politics of
• 10:14
  Evan: south korea and sort of what control the west.
• 10:17
  bill: And the.
• 10:17
  Evan: Imf has over that country i mean it's basically like
• 10:20
  Evan: a version of israel in that part of the world in the sense that we control what
• 10:26
  Evan: they do who's their leader how they spend their money and all these things and
• 10:30
  Evan: that that implicates how the people in this society live like the people you're
• 10:35
  Evan: introduced to and how they survive.
• 10:37
  bill: Despite the fact that like i will probably not revisit this
• 10:41
  bill: particular film i love south
• 10:44
  bill: korean like sci-fi fantasy and
• 10:48
  bill: like horror and there's and but
• 10:51
  bill: like also like i actually really like sci-fi south
• 10:54
  bill: korea like dramas like like they're soaps like
• 10:57
  bill: my wife and i have watched multiple you know various like you know south korean
• 11:01
  bill: like soaps and dramas and you know like rom-com kind of things and there's a
• 11:06
  bill: stark difference between those genres is in that the sci-fi fantasy horror are
• 11:11
  bill: all politically charged and they,
• 11:15
  bill: always, always the directors of all of those things the writers of all those things, it
• 11:20
  bill: always so obviously aware and pushing
• 11:24
  bill: a message of the way the united states controls south korea in many ways and
• 11:29
  bill: how they present it and they don't like it and you know even in this there is
• 11:34
  bill: mention of like you know north korea and like an agile agilatory like notion
• 11:40
  bill: of like the two leaders meeting and it's like.
• 11:43
  Evan: Yeah that's like right after.
• 11:44
  bill: The imf thing and it's like oh that's they're making a point he's making a point
• 11:49
  bill: when he does that that's not subtle if you understand the history.
• 11:51
  Evan: Especially if you watch other films by uh bong jun ho like especially the especially
• 11:57
  Evan: specifically the host which takes place there and is literally caused by american
• 12:01
  Evan: malfeasance is in in conjunction with the korean you know governor and military so we have a big hand uh,
• 12:11
  Evan: in the south korean uh politics if
• 12:15
  Evan: you will which i think i mean again it doesn't necessarily
• 12:18
  Evan: impact like the rest of the film but i think it gives you context of what the
• 12:22
  Evan: country is like yes yeah and like the thing that like the number one thing i
• 12:26
  Evan: couldn't stop thinking about is we just recorded our episode on um what did
• 12:30
  Evan: we just do was it a muppets which will uh you'll have already come out at upon
• 12:35
  Evan: this thing yeah i know you know i'll get there i cannot.
• 12:38
  bill: I can't wait The parallels.
• 12:40
  Track 3: Between these two.
• 12:41
  Evan: Are incredible. You'll see.
• 12:45
  bill: Okay, Muppet cast the bald boy, go.
• 12:49
  bill: Well- No, you finish your thought first.
• 12:52
  Evan: Okay.
• 12:52
  bill: Finish your thought first.
• 12:53
  Evan: So we were talking about- No.
• 12:54
  Track 3: No, no, imagine Kermit punching the wall.
• 12:57
  Evan: Well, Kermit has to be the main character because he's always the main character.
• 13:02
  Evan: And monster would be the bad guy or the other guy, right?
• 13:05
  bill: I don't know. Do you mean animal?
• 13:06
  Evan: What did I say? They say monster. I'm not animal.
• 13:08
  bill: You said monster, yeah.
• 13:10
  Evan: Well, because there is that Tony Trap later where he has the person on the thing.
• 13:15
  Evan: Anyway, the point that I was going to make was we talked about in the Muppets
• 13:17
  Evan: episode, not about Muppets and that's not how it relates, but like how we've
• 13:22
  Evan: constantly in a lot of episodes talked about alienation and isolation of people.
• 13:26
  Evan: And I think to me, that is like one of the, probably the three major
• 13:29
  Evan: themes and things that i see when i watch this especially
• 13:32
  Evan: again is the alienation and the isolation
• 13:35
  Evan: literally of a man in a prison cell for 15
• 13:38
  Evan: years and when he comes out he basically says like he still feels like he's
• 13:42
  Evan: in a prison like he doesn't actually feel like he's been released like the world
• 13:46
  Evan: is still a prison and i even think you see that with like the the the female
• 13:52
  Evan: character who will get to you know, soon, um, Mido.
• 13:57
  Evan: And so I think that all of the characters are just suffering from loneliness and the alienation,
• 14:05
  Evan: I mean, I think this is just a symptom of, obviously, capitalism and hyper-capitalism
• 14:09
  Evan: in places like South Korea. It's not related to the Muppets in any other way.
• 14:14
  Track 3: I was hoping you had something way more that you could tie the Muppets into
• 14:18
  Track 3: this. That would have been fucking fantastic.
• 14:19
  bill: Alienation is it's it
• 14:23
  bill: really like i i know that like as marxist like
• 14:26
  bill: we talk about alienation but i honestly i don't think
• 14:29
  bill: that it is really stressed enough how foundational that is not just in the way
• 14:40
  bill: in which this system functions but how integral it is to make maintenance of
• 14:46
  bill: that functionality of that system,
• 14:48
  bill: how it is a requisite aspect of it in such a fundamental way.
• 14:53
  bill: And I don't really think that it, we talk so much, you know,
• 14:57
  bill: especially as people like do, we talk so much about like, oh,
• 15:00
  bill: capitalism and it's this and a lot of times, like, I really feel like we leave
• 15:04
  bill: behind, like, and don't focus enough on de-alienation and what that takes from
• 15:09
  bill: you, which is community.
• 15:10
  bill: And we don't talk about community enough, how these kinds of things are prevented
• 15:14
  bill: by maintenance of community.
• 15:16
  Track 3: No, absolutely. I mean, in this movie, like most of our main characters,
• 15:20
  Track 3: they're all alienated in some form.
• 15:23
  Track 3: But then we get a litany of some side characters, which is fine,
• 15:27
  Track 3: you know, because they're still tied in with their community.
• 15:30
  Track 3: Like we go, we see the hairdresser and it's like, oh, yeah, let me just make
• 15:34
  Track 3: some phone calls. No problem. Like she having a bad time.
• 15:37
  bill: In the entire his entire story and
• 15:40
  bill: yes he has been hypnotized but at the same time it is clear it is made clear
• 15:45
  bill: at the end when wujin says like you didn't actually like we didn't have to do
• 15:48
  bill: anything you just forgot like you just forgot and it's like she just made some
• 15:55
  bill: phone calls because she's still like connection to people like if this had happened
• 15:59
  bill: to her she'd have figured out,
• 16:01
  bill: who the guy who the who the villain was like 20 minutes
• 16:04
  bill: tops she's like i'm gonna make a phone phone calls this guy goes for fucking
• 16:08
  bill: how long months just like trying to figure out that it's somebody he literally
• 16:14
  bill: knew like this is it's it's like three degrees of separation too like it's not
• 16:19
  bill: even like that far away and.
• 16:22
  Track 3: It's funny because like it's basically like we have
• 16:25
  Track 3: we've shown him like creating the lists of like
• 16:28
  Track 3: everybody he's ever wronged and like wujun's name is
• 16:31
  Track 3: never shown it could be in that list but if it was it'd be shown and it just
• 16:35
  Track 3: goes to show like nah man you genuinely just forgot you were such a piece of
• 16:39
  Track 3: shit your whole life this one big thing that was massive to him and his family
• 16:45
  Track 3: was nothing to you you genuinely forgot you didn't need to be hypnotized for that one I mean.
• 16:50
  Evan: It chose to, like, even it took this, it took being in prison.
• 16:54
  Evan: He also doesn't make that list initially. It's not for, like, a while.
• 16:57
  bill: It took a long time.
• 16:58
  Evan: Like, years. I think it's like six years or something goes by before he is like,
• 17:02
  Evan: well, maybe I wasn't the nicest guy in, you know, my life.
• 17:06
  Evan: And the thing that's also crazy that we didn't even mention is while he's in
• 17:09
  Evan: prison or imprisoned, they take a cup of his with his fingerprints on it to
• 17:15
  Evan: frame him. So they murder his wife and then frame him for it.
• 17:19
  bill: And blood. They take blood from him, too, and spray it over the scene.
• 17:22
  Evan: And so he's disappeared, but then he's come back to kill his wife,
• 17:26
  Evan: and now he becomes wanted so that when he eventually does get released, he's also now wanted by.
• 17:31
  Evan: He can't reintegrate into society. But that also takes his own community,
• 17:35
  Evan: who he also doesn't, you know, take very seriously.
• 17:38
  Evan: I mean, several times, Lee Woo Jin talks about how he can't protect women,
• 17:44
  Evan: which I think we could also get to also, is this weird patriarchal sort of concept
• 17:49
  Evan: that you have to protect them.
• 17:51
  Evan: And it's not just about protecting your community, not just like women in particular.
• 17:56
  Evan: Not that you shouldn't protect the women in your life.
• 17:59
  bill: You heard it here first. I'm not even gonna make that joke. My only like,
• 18:05
  bill: issue with that like the whole like listen everything like that is we
• 18:08
  bill: and like the whole like women thing like we that is all
• 18:12
  bill: show no tell like other than him being a
• 18:14
  bill: drunk drunk dipshit in the beginning like we
• 18:18
  bill: don't see him being a bad
• 18:21
  bill: person like even the whole like what
• 18:24
  bill: causes all of this like that
• 18:28
  bill: is so like high school
• 18:31
  bill: and like wuchin is the fucking villain he he
• 18:35
  bill: fucked his sister like yeah he
• 18:38
  bill: fucked his sister and like the way this is presented it
• 18:41
  bill: is still laid out as if like like daisoo's like the bad guy here it's like no
• 18:46
  bill: you had sex with your sister okay like he started a rumor which seems foggy
• 18:53
  bill: at best like even that whole thing it is yeah why he passed.
• 18:58
  Track 3: He passed it off to his buddy who by the end of the movie is already dead.
• 19:02
  bill: Yeah yeah buddy's.
• 19:04
  Track 3: The one who spread it all around yeah.
• 19:06
  bill: He literally he said he said one thing to one person and it's like,
• 19:11
  bill: honestly i was kind of shocked i was like wait a minute this is
• 19:14
  bill: he this is fundamentally this character this is a classic case of watching bad
• 19:21
  bill: like bad people be like look what you made me do it's like yeah bro you're a
• 19:28
  bill: fault you're the bad guy so.
• 19:31
  Evan: I i don't disagree with your like the the villains you know revenge plot this
• 19:38
  Evan: entire time to get back um to get back Odei Su is pretty maniacal and insane.
• 19:45
  Evan: He's spent his entire life doing this.
• 19:48
  Evan: But, to look at it from his perspective and I think maybe- Love a petty king. Yeah, but,
• 19:54
  Evan: As someone who is not South Korean or Korean or, you know, has an insight deeply into the culture.
• 20:00
  Evan: But what I do understand is that, like, the idea of, like, honor and these kind
• 20:03
  Evan: of things, like, it seems like he broke, like, the sort of, however, they're kids.
• 20:08
  bill: I'm sorry.
• 20:09
  Track 3: I'm sorry. I'm with Bill. It is two shitty people.
• 20:13
  Track 3: Two shitty people. One shittier than the other, which we don't find out until later. i.
• 20:19
  bill: Don't think notions of familial.
• 20:22
  Track 3: Honor cover.
• 20:23
  bill: Incest i don't think they do okay.
• 20:26
  Track 3: Yeah no this is the the
• 20:30
  Track 3: revenge that each of the like the story for each of the like the main characters
• 20:36
  Track 3: is a one that is extremely personal like wu jin that is extremely personal to
• 20:43
  Track 3: him because he fucked his sister and was in love with his sister.
• 20:47
  Track 3: And so he's gonna seek absolute fucking revenge.
• 20:50
  Track 3: Because it was personal to him. And he's a piece of shit. But it's personal
• 20:55
  Track 3: to him. And then we get the counterpoint,
• 20:58
  Track 3: daisu oh daisu who's fucking we get led and follow around and witness as a fucking
• 21:04
  Track 3: man driven by revenge until we find out oh wujin is actually that guy.
• 21:10
  Evan: Do you see the two of their sort of their their
• 21:14
  Evan: paths i sort of noted that like wujin's plan is like revenge whereas for daisu
• 21:22
  Evan: it's like vengeance for like what has been wrong to him like he realizes he's
• 21:25
  Evan: a bad guy but he doesn't realize how bad of a thing could I have done to have this happened to me?
• 21:31
  Evan: Do you see a distinction with them or no?
• 21:34
  bill: Well, what I would say is, I wouldn't say revenge versus vengeance. This is revenge.
• 21:42
  Track 3: It's revenge squared.
• 21:45
  bill: Invalidated revenge versus justice. Payback.
• 21:48
  bill: He imprisoned him for 15 years for a thing,
• 21:54
  bill: he didn't actually do he
• 21:57
  bill: didn't do anything he said to
• 22:00
  bill: one of his friends what he saw and then
• 22:04
  bill: all left town fucking didn't
• 22:09
  bill: didn't didn't stick around and then like continue to like perpetuate these rumors
• 22:13
  bill: he fucking told his friend what he saw and then left and his friends spread
• 22:18
  bill: rumors which were not rumors fucking facts she fucked her brother he fucked his sister well.
• 22:26
  Track 3: Like the rumor part was that she got pregnant.
• 22:28
  bill: Yeah and then she started to believe the rumors it grew into that which yeah
• 22:34
  bill: it grew into that which is totally his his.
• 22:38
  Track 3: Excuse his rewriting to be able to enact all this revenge on day sue.
• 22:42
  bill: Hey guess what man um you're there wouldn't be a room about your sister being
• 22:46
  bill: pregnant if you hadn't been, wait, I'm fucking her.
• 22:50
  Track 3: Throwing that out there.
• 22:51
  bill: Buddy just throwing that out there probably wouldn't which also which.
• 22:55
  Evan: Also is close if not actually also rape yeah.
• 23:00
  bill: She clearly unclear but you know what i'll go it was not enthusiastic consent.
• 23:06
  Track 3: I mean she then she later says like in the flashback but granted it could be
• 23:10
  Track 3: his memory of like oh i didn't regret anything yeah.
• 23:13
  Evan: Yeah so that comes.
• 23:14
  Track 3: From so like yeah and so oh they're both shitty people you know what i mean
• 23:18
  Track 3: one's just worse than the other But we also.
• 23:20
  bill: But again, we don't actually see Daesu being a shitty person outside of one
• 23:27
  bill: scene of him being drunk in a fucking, like everything else, it's all told.
• 23:32
  Track 3: He misses daughter's birthday being drunk in that jail.
• 23:36
  Track 3: But also, we see him make that massive list and you don't come up with lists that long.
• 23:42
  bill: No, totally. You're 100% correct. But all I'm just saying is- We just don't
• 23:45
  bill: see it, yeah. I just thought it, it didn't have impact. like i thought it was
• 23:50
  bill: a failure of storytelling to have it be told and not shown.
• 23:54
  Track 3: At all like.
• 23:56
  bill: It really it detracted from it for me as a.
• 23:59
  Track 3: Viewer so for so for me i'll say in the
• 24:02
  Track 3: remake they have more of a build-up before he gets imprisoned and it shows like
• 24:07
  Track 3: he's much shittier person like a constant alcoholic like left uh left the family
• 24:14
  Track 3: uh misses his uh kid's birthday it's like hitting on clients' wives and shit like that.
• 24:20
  Track 3: Like, he's a much shittier person before it, but I was like,
• 24:23
  Track 3: honestly, it kind of detracts.
• 24:25
  Track 3: I like the whole mystery of the entry of like, oh, you just come in on a dude on his lowest.
• 24:30
  Track 3: You kind of just instantly understand, oh, this guy's not great.
• 24:33
  Track 3: And then boom, he's in jail and he's been there for two months.
• 24:36
  Track 3: Well, what the fuck? What's going on here?
• 24:38
  Evan: That's how I feel.
• 24:39
  Track 3: And by the time that mystery is like developing, boom, he's out. I love it.
• 24:43
  Track 3: I love the pacing of that storytelling.
• 24:45
  Evan: That's how I feel the same way, whereas I think that if you had seen more at
• 24:49
  Evan: the beginning of him being shitty, I think it sort of retracts the flow and,
• 24:53
  Evan: like, takes a little bit away from the imprisonment aspect.
• 24:56
  Evan: Granted, you see more reason why he should be there, but I think he has to come
• 25:01
  Evan: to those terms on his own.
• 25:02
  bill: I honestly, like, I'm not saying it should have been before that.
• 25:05
  bill: I actually really like the fact that it's like you start and then,
• 25:07
  bill: boom, he's in the prison. but like i think that like if like said flashbacks
• 25:12
  bill: or something like that like.
• 25:13
  Evan: Okay i think it would have.
• 25:14
  bill: Been but whatever i'm not remaking the movie that's not.
• 25:17
  Evan: The point of this.
• 25:17
  bill: Show that's not.
• 25:18
  Evan: The point here no no i mean it's a it's a critique of the you know of the film i it's it's a valid uh,
• 25:24
  Evan: a valid thing one of the one of the things that like
• 25:27
  Evan: since i don't know which maybe ward said it is
• 25:30
  Evan: about the the memory you get of
• 25:33
  Evan: like their romance like uh him and his
• 25:36
  Evan: sister is like sort of based on memories like
• 25:39
  Evan: the one thing that i also which a lot of korean films
• 25:42
  Evan: i've noticed like incorporate the idea of
• 25:45
  Evan: like memories and how you how they shape you
• 25:48
  Evan: i don't know if it's like cultural or just sort of a it's a good
• 25:51
  Evan: way to tap into like characters i thought that
• 25:53
  Evan: like the way they each remember their childhood is
• 25:57
  Evan: like completely different obviously one of them had a sister
• 25:59
  Evan: commit suicide slash murder ish you
• 26:03
  Evan: know like kind of both in a way like why was she
• 26:05
  Evan: hanging off like the whole thing i mean it was also a good symmetry with the
• 26:09
  Evan: uh very opening scene where he's about to tell his story and he has the guy
• 26:13
  Evan: hanging off the top i mean you don't know at the time what that's gonna sort
• 26:17
  Evan: of mean but then like why why does he need to have that person at the top of
• 26:21
  Evan: the roof other than just kind of feels like a really good that.
• 26:24
  bill: Was the one that was i thought that was it was all.
• 26:27
  Track 3: To set up the fake dog.
• 26:28
  bill: When he falls onto the car and it's it's beautiful and wonderful.
• 26:32
  bill: That was so striking to me that he sat there, told that man, his story.
• 26:40
  bill: And they walked the fuck away.
• 26:42
  Track 3: He's not a bad guy. Okay. We didn't see him being a bad guy. Okay. Okay.
• 26:46
  bill: That is a good point.
• 26:47
  Track 3: Okay, Bill.
• 26:47
  bill: That is an excellent, excellent point. And I should have made note of that.
• 26:51
  Track 3: And not only that, he stole that man's line at the end.
• 26:55
  bill: Yes, he did. I don't really think that's, I'm not going to, but yeah,
• 26:59
  bill: the fact that you're absolutely correct. You are 100% correct.
• 27:02
  bill: That really, that did go to show how little he valued other people.
• 27:08
  bill: You're 100% correct. that is the end result of complete alienation like you
• 27:14
  bill: just don't even see the humanity in other people and he did he just walked away
• 27:18
  bill: from that he was like it's more important that i tell you my story and then
• 27:20
  bill: he just walked the fuck away and he didn't even take the dog with him which i was really upset about.
• 27:25
  Track 3: Yeah that dog didn't.
• 27:28
  bill: Do anything why are you jumping off at the jaw that's fucked up.
• 27:31
  Track 3: Yeah but like it yeah no it's so beautiful and
• 27:34
  Track 3: just really sets up for like nah he's a bad guy but also
• 27:37
  Track 3: like it's so striking compared to like
• 27:39
  Track 3: how he emerges from the box and interacts with the guy it's
• 27:42
  Track 3: so animalistic and feral after 15 years
• 27:45
  Track 3: of isolation he's like so physical with the man
• 27:48
  Track 3: and then all up to just lead to cool you can listen to my story nah i'm out
• 27:54
  Track 3: i'm out like cool i got i got over my little moment that i had to have which
• 27:59
  Track 3: then he had again in the elevator with the woman um sunglasses um yeah but like,
• 28:09
  Track 3: yeah i love that scene and then the fake dog when the body falls it's i love the.
• 28:13
  bill: Fake dog so it's so
• 28:17
  bill: jarringly fake um but like
• 28:20
  bill: at the same time like it really and like
• 28:24
  bill: this movie speaks to
• 28:27
  bill: the failure of the carceral
• 28:30
  bill: system as we practice it to do anything
• 28:34
  bill: in terms of rehabilitation or you
• 28:37
  bill: know solve society's problems like this movie is a an abject lesson in this
• 28:45
  bill: is the the carceral system breaks people and fundamentally turns them into people
• 28:52
  bill: who are incapable of existing within.
• 28:56
  bill: Society what regardless of how flawed your society is like they cannot function
• 29:03
  bill: within it Like this entire movie,
• 29:06
  bill: you, I think it is a, I think it's a failure of viewership to watch this without
• 29:12
  bill: constantly in the back of your mind, remembering this man spent 15 years in isolation.
• 29:16
  bill: He is not saying not a single thing that he does is really in, in the end,
• 29:26
  bill: like can be laid at his feet because he has been completely and utterly destroyed mentally.
• 29:34
  bill: And this is something we do to people every day in our own, in our society.
• 29:41
  bill: And then let them like, listen, uh, here's a bus fare and, uh,
• 29:46
  bill: whatever you came in with and, uh, Hey, good luck.
• 29:51
  bill: Hope you don't, don't break any rules again.
• 29:54
  Evan: I mean, it's purely the idea that you don't actually rehabilitate them and you're
• 29:59
  Evan: just expecting them to just come back because the prison system is a business
• 30:03
  Evan: at the end of the day. Right.
• 30:05
  Evan: Like literally in this movie, it's run as a business.
• 30:08
  Evan: This guy owns this prison converted motel or whatever the hell it is,
• 30:13
  Evan: like the hideous carpet and wallpaper and shit. Like he's just running this,
• 30:18
  Evan: like it's a, you know, like it's a motel. but for imprisoning people.
• 30:21
  Track 3: Yeah it's like the private prison in the truest sense yeah.
• 30:26
  Evan: Sending you doctors who really aren't there to help you but essentially to kind of check a box to say,
• 30:33
  Evan: whatever feeding you horrible things not caring what happens to you inside i
• 30:37
  Evan: mean the worst part about this is he doesn't actually get to even talk to another
• 30:40
  Evan: person in most prisons at least you have i'm not not as a as a like a thing
• 30:45
  Evan: to say it's good but like you have interactions with other humans most of the time two.
• 30:50
  bill: Hot takes from evan tonight you don't have protect don't protect the women in
• 30:54
  bill: your life and prison not so bad not so bad.
• 30:57
  Evan: Yeah just another thing you get dumplings i mean what else you get dumplings i.
• 31:04
  bill: Don't think i could ever eat another dumpling in my life.
• 31:07
  Track 3: It's obviously free health care you try to kill yourself well bam that shit's fixed.
• 31:13
  Evan: The one line we didn't mention before that came up a number of times,
• 31:17
  Evan: I think Odeisu says it, I think that Woojin says it is, oh no,
• 31:24
  Evan: I'm not Woojin, Meeju says it is, the night is getting lonelier.
• 31:29
  Evan: And it goes back to that, I mean, we don't have to go back to the whole alienation
• 31:33
  Evan: thing, but it's like everyone is also lonely.
• 31:35
  Evan: Like he's lonely in his prison cell. People are also lonely outside of their
• 31:39
  Evan: prison cell. And even when they meet and they're together, they're still lonely
• 31:44
  Evan: because there's like nothing that they can actually do to satiate themselves
• 31:49
  Evan: because they're still isolated.
• 31:50
  Evan: I think we've already said that they have to have each other in the sense that
• 31:54
  Evan: there's two people, but they don't know.
• 31:56
  Track 3: Another line that's repeated is, uh, it's like a laugh in the world laughs with
• 32:00
  Track 3: you, weep and you weep alone.
• 32:02
  Track 3: And it's like just further hitting home the point that it's like all,
• 32:06
  Track 3: all these main characters that we're seeing are alienated.
• 32:09
  Track 3: these aren't people with community these aren't people with support systems
• 32:13
  Track 3: except for wu jin which all of his is paid for it's only because he's rich and
• 32:18
  Track 3: we come to find out that his whole life is based on revenge and once he's done
• 32:25
  Track 3: with revenge all he's left with is money and money can't buy you happiness and
• 32:28
  Track 3: so he fucking eats one yeah.
• 32:29
  Evan: He even understands the system i think that that line was on a painting inside
• 32:34
  Evan: of his room right and then it just like comes up several times and i think it's
• 32:39
  Evan: one of the last lines in the film maybe towards the end right i think they says at the end yeah.
• 32:45
  Track 3: It's pretty close to the end.
• 32:46
  Evan: Yeah that line is pretty like a dagger and like so we still haven't sort of
• 32:51
  Evan: given we should probably listen to this watch this movie know like the big spoiler
• 32:56
  Evan: but like the big this might give away some of it is the influence from park
• 33:01
  Evan: chan wook was the like was it's based on a manga yeah,
• 33:06
  Evan: which I didn't know until earlier today, like loosely based,
• 33:09
  Evan: but it's also based on like the Oedipus, the story of Oedipus.
• 33:13
  Evan: So, you know, like, I guess we'll get to the sort of, it's funny when we're
• 33:18
  Evan: talking with Joe at the end of that, after the Muppets episode,
• 33:21
  Evan: she's like, you're going to be on the ending of this movie for a while.
• 33:24
  Evan: And like, we're at minute 39 and we're at the ending and you could tell her
• 33:28
  Evan: afterwards that she was correct.
• 33:30
  Track 3: Oh, absolutely.
• 33:31
  Evan: But the thing I was going to get to was like, he based it on sort of the Oedipus.
• 33:34
  Evan: And so the big thing, the big reveal that's just, I think for anyone like Bill
• 33:39
  Evan: who watched it for the first time, it's...
• 33:42
  Evan: It's shocking. It was quite shocking. It turns out,
• 33:46
  Evan: you know, again, for anyone who hasn't noticed that Lee Wujin had hypnotized
• 33:51
  Evan: both Odee Soo and his daughter, who is Mido,
• 33:55
  Evan: to fall in love through all these complicated hypnosis and then to also have
• 34:01
  Evan: an incestual relationship as well.
• 34:03
  Evan: So it wasn't bad. Isn't bad enough. He did it to his own sister.
• 34:07
  Evan: He had to make his revenge was to make him have sex with his own daughter.
• 34:12
  bill: I did not guess that that was the case, but early on, right around the time
• 34:18
  bill: when, like, they were, like, right before they had sex, I did look up.
• 34:23
  bill: I was like, how old are these two actors?
• 34:26
  bill: And I was like, that's a 20-year age difference, which is super gross.
• 34:31
  Evan: But see, in, like, movies, it's gross, but it also could just be,
• 34:36
  Evan: like, there was a moment when I think he says at some point,
• 34:39
  Evan: like, you shouldn't, you know, fall for, like, older people.
• 34:42
  Evan: You know, like he's, he acknowledges the strangeness.
• 34:46
  bill: My prayer for you is that you don't, that you fall in love with a younger man or something like that.
• 34:51
  bill: When, when he goes to confront Ruzhin and she, you know, she's like, I'll pray for you.
• 34:57
  bill: What do you want me to pray for her? And he says, I'll pray for you.
• 35:00
  Evan: And the way, and also the big reveal that Li Wuzhin gives him is that his like
• 35:06
  Evan: fancy penthouse apartment with these weird retractable electronic closets for
• 35:12
  Evan: whatever reason, I guess. Money can't buy taste.
• 35:16
  bill: No, I cannot.
• 35:17
  Evan: And he has like this ribbon box like you also see him earlier in the movie like
• 35:22
  Evan: making this little photo album and he makes the photo album and he's snapping
• 35:26
  Evan: through he's like oh that's me and my daughter and he's snapping it through
• 35:29
  Evan: and like he sees her as an adult and it just fucking,
• 35:33
  Evan: destroys him just I mean as it,
• 35:36
  Evan: would describe most people i'd.
• 35:38
  Track 3: Imagine oh every every person.
• 35:40
  Evan: That's not a just you know it's just it is so fucked up it is like it's the reveal is just.
• 35:46
  Track 3: It's so fucked on so many levels because then you have desus begging to not
• 35:52
  Track 3: tell his daughter because it will destroy her and.
• 35:57
  bill: Then asking the hypnotist to take that memory from him.
• 36:02
  Track 3: Oh no no i'm not even there yet i'm not
• 36:05
  Track 3: even there yeah it's it's still fucked up before that bill
• 36:08
  Track 3: is oh god he goes and
• 36:11
  Track 3: cuts his own tongue out which wujin's like you know what i'll give
• 36:14
  Track 3: you something you you cut your tongue out the cause of
• 36:17
  Track 3: all of this your fucking tongue and at least
• 36:20
  Track 3: in wujin's eyes really it's desu's friend who
• 36:23
  Track 3: can't fucking keep his mouth shut um but wujin
• 36:26
  Track 3: sees like you cut your tongue out the source of all of this i'll give
• 36:29
  Track 3: you something won't tell me though all right but i'll
• 36:32
  Track 3: drop my fucking device that i told you earlier that will stop my heart if you
• 36:38
  Track 3: press this button and I'll go ahead and leave and Dayzoo grabs that fucking
• 36:41
  Track 3: thing and hits the button and it doesn't kill him but it plays the fucking audio
• 36:46
  Track 3: sex tape in like Dolby 7.1 surround sound max volume,
• 36:51
  Track 3: of him and his daughter having sex like dude but oh she doesn't but wait wait.
• 36:56
  Evan: Does it plays the the movie for her.
• 36:58
  Track 3: No no no it's just for him in the penthouse oh he thinks he has the upper hand
• 37:04
  Track 3: finally he's like even though i cut out my own tongue i can kill him now oh.
• 37:08
  Evan: Okay okay yeah.
• 37:09
  Track 3: Oh now i'm stuck alone in this penthouse listening to it right.
• 37:12
  Evan: And then he tells the guy in the hotel where she's staying or the hotel prison
• 37:16
  Evan: like she doesn't have to open the box.
• 37:18
  Track 3: And then daisu decides It's what to do from there because Woojin ain't going
• 37:24
  Track 3: to tell nobody he's dead in the elevator.
• 37:26
  Track 3: It's on Daesu what to do forward. And he decides, I'm going to be a good dad
• 37:31
  Track 3: and go see the hypnotist.
• 37:35
  bill: So fucked up.
• 37:36
  Track 3: So fucked.
• 37:37
  Evan: Which he does what? What's the request of the hypnotist?
• 37:41
  bill: To cover his memories up again.
• 37:43
  Track 3: Yeah, cover up his memories.
• 37:44
  Evan: He doesn't want to know that she's his daughter.
• 37:46
  bill: Yeah.
• 37:46
  Track 3: Yeah, so that they can continue being together.
• 37:49
  Track 3: Which is something you can never get by the American audience.
• 37:52
  Track 3: If you haven't watched the remake, I'm going to spoil that too.
• 37:55
  Track 3: The ending's different. They didn't go with that at all.
• 37:58
  bill: I was going to ask. I'm like, there's no fucking way. I don't think.
• 38:01
  Track 3: He locks himself back in prison. He pays to put himself back in the private prison.
• 38:05
  Evan: In the American one?
• 38:06
  Track 3: In the American. Yeah, it's like dumb.
• 38:08
  Evan: Spike Lee, you fucked up on that one, buddy.
• 38:11
  Track 3: As crazy as this ending is that you have seen or heard about us just described
• 38:16
  Track 3: right now, it's still a way better ending than the American one.
• 38:20
  bill: It's really sad like that's the thing really is what that ending is it is.
• 38:27
  Track 3: Sad and sickeningly beautiful.
• 38:29
  bill: It is incredibly sad it
• 38:32
  bill: is so sad it is
• 38:35
  bill: just the culmination of the destruction of
• 38:38
  bill: a person's humanity and it's like the only
• 38:42
  bill: thing that he has really left
• 38:45
  bill: the only thing the only person he has left in the world is me do who is his
• 38:51
  bill: daughter but also she only has him and she doesn't know and it's like it's fucked
• 38:58
  bill: it's it's deeply fucked up it's.
• 39:02
  Track 3: So fucked in so many ways.
• 39:05
  bill: Yeah, I was shocked.
• 39:07
  Evan: Well, part of what the, so I was going to mention that like this,
• 39:10
  Evan: if for anyone who has never heard or knows like the Oedipus story,
• 39:14
  Evan: not only is it that the son has sex with the mother, it's that the mother kills
• 39:20
  Evan: herself and the father gouges out his eyes.
• 39:23
  Evan: like that's part of the like the ending of the
• 39:25
  Evan: story and you sort of have not a
• 39:28
  Evan: one-to-one comparison here is he cuts out his tongue earlier in
• 39:32
  Evan: the movie the other the sister commits suicide so like there's similar like
• 39:37
  Evan: tracks where he was he said as much like he was kind of like going off the story
• 39:41
  Evan: but like his interpretation of it and god it's it's it's funny like there's
• 39:46
  Evan: a hell of a right funny is the wrong word it's kind of insane not funny.
• 39:50
  Track 3: There's funny moments.
• 39:51
  Evan: Yeah well oh yeah I mean, we can talk about some of the other scenes,
• 39:54
  Evan: which I think are awesome that I, well, let me, let me go.
• 39:56
  Evan: I'm going to go back to what I was saying is the, there are so many scenes,
• 40:00
  Evan: this movie that were shot in one take, specifically the scene in the hall,
• 40:06
  Evan: in the, in the hallway when he fights all the people, that's one take, which is insane.
• 40:10
  Evan: And it's also the most fun sort of these guys with the, like they're holding
• 40:15
  Evan: what sticks and he's got, you know, a knife in his back still fighting.
• 40:19
  Evan: and you like at that moment you before you know what he's up against and everything
• 40:23
  Evan: that's going on you're like oh like this is he gets his revenge he like pulls
• 40:27
  Evan: the guy's teeth out and he gets some information and he leaves like okay he's
• 40:31
  Evan: gonna maybe make it that's just like the minimum of what's happened to him.
• 40:35
  bill: This movie is for going into this just knowing like reputation not knowing this
• 40:40
  bill: like not knowing the story not only the plot but like knowing reputation I was
• 40:44
  bill: expecting it to be way more violent, way more bloody. Like,
• 40:50
  bill: honestly if you don't have like
• 40:53
  bill: a thing about teeth the tooth scene is
• 40:56
  bill: kind of tame like honestly like objectively i could say like oh that's that's
• 41:01
  bill: kind of a taint like they cut away it's only the fact that my brain like can't
• 41:05
  bill: look away internally from that that really had any effect like overall the movie's
• 41:11
  bill: pretty i mean honestly in america i think it'd be probably except for the sexy pg-13,
• 41:17
  bill: straight up like.
• 41:19
  Evan: Well the incest might tip it over the edge yeah.
• 41:24
  bill: Other than that part but like you know other than that yeah i mean.
• 41:28
  Evan: Yeah i mean the only other really violent moments there
• 41:31
  Evan: aren't really other like that the tongue i mean there's
• 41:35
  Evan: a fight like there's no real torture after that like
• 41:37
  Evan: he's about to get tortured in the room and then he calls him and he's like no
• 41:41
  Evan: you can't do that like i'll pay you and he brings over like just a briefcase
• 41:45
  Evan: full of money like that's what's so crazy like he can't let anyone do anything
• 41:50
  Evan: to him because he is the only one that gets to inflict suffering and,
• 41:56
  Evan: upon desu which is twisted in its own way right yeah.
• 42:00
  Track 3: He's got like a whole game he wants to play man.
• 42:03
  Evan: What do you think he can't.
• 42:04
  Track 3: Have the game get ruined which again.
• 42:06
  Evan: What do you think he did to make all his money is it real estate i want to know.
• 42:09
  bill: That some it's got it's got to be.
• 42:10
  Evan: There's the only time you ever hear anything is when they arrive back to his
• 42:15
  Evan: apartment at one point and they go up he's talking on the phone about like some
• 42:18
  Evan: deal or something and you don't really there's no context to it about like a
• 42:22
  Evan: building or something so i just assume like real estate well.
• 42:25
  bill: He says he gave that guy mr park he gave him he bought him a building yeah.
• 42:30
  Evan: Yeah so.
• 42:31
  bill: I don't know.
• 42:32
  Track 3: I just assumed he's got stupid amounts of money so probably real estate.
• 42:36
  Evan: Yeah he like i like when he's when he shoots the uh his assistant and he gets
• 42:40
  Evan: like a little bit of blood on his shirt like a droplet he's like so pissed he's
• 42:44
  Evan: like oh my fucking shirt but there's blood on his face but like his face.
• 42:48
  bill: Is totally but yeah that's fine.
• 42:50
  Track 3: I mean are we supposed to take him as a coherent character he's pissed that
• 42:54
  Track 3: somebody's leaked that he fucked his sister yeah like and he has like a.
• 42:59
  bill: Fucking full-on shrine to her in.
• 43:01
  Track 3: His like and his right hand man is just totally also cool the fact that like he fucked his.
• 43:08
  Evan: Sister you pay him enough money he doesn't care right like you get the right
• 43:12
  Evan: person to he also was like much better at like fighting than he was like he had
• 43:16
  Evan: this guy who like you know he's like the final boss you know a guy who comes
• 43:19
  Evan: in and he has to fight him i also like how uh not like but wu jin like guts
• 43:24
  Evan: the friend in the internet cafe basically with like a with a cd like he breaks
• 43:30
  Evan: the cd and like guts him with it like that is a fucked up shit.
• 43:33
  Track 3: Well let's see he just gets so pissed hearing them talk about his sister he
• 43:36
  Track 3: fucking pops the cd out breaks it in half stabs him the fuck up with it.
• 43:40
  Evan: Was that an aol trial gnarly.
• 43:42
  Track 3: That's what I want to hope, because, like, fuck, I remember those.
• 43:47
  Evan: Who doesn't? Like, those are, like, coasters for every person because they're just everywhere.
• 43:52
  Track 3: It's so many. How, how, what percentage of the microplastics in our body are
• 43:57
  Track 3: because of AOL trial discs?
• 44:01
  Evan: 70 percent. Like, how many of those
• 44:03
  Evan: were actually used by a human being to redeem ours? Like, one person?
• 44:08
  Track 3: Two-thirds of that spoon that I have in my testicles worth, right? Yeah.
• 44:13
  Evan: I'm trying to think of, like, there's some other, like, notes that I put in
• 44:16
  Evan: that, um, well, the other thing, too, is he watches in on the TV Mido's,
• 44:22
  Evan: like, food competition where she becomes, like, a sushi chef.
• 44:25
  Evan: Do you think that they somehow purposely fed, ensured he would watch that channel,
• 44:30
  Evan: I assume, like, part of the hypnosis?
• 44:33
  Evan: Or is that just, like, luck on his part?
• 44:35
  Track 3: I mean, it's possible. I don't know, like, from the manga, the remake,
• 44:41
  Track 3: they purposely filmed TV shows just for him in prison.
• 44:48
  Evan: I mean, he also said that he'd been watching his daughter his whole life, right?
• 44:52
  Evan: Like, he'd been watching his daughter his whole life, so maybe he intentionally
• 44:55
  Evan: put her down the path to be a chef so that she would, I don't know.
• 44:59
  Evan: He seems to be very creepily involved in his life, right?
• 45:03
  Track 3: I mean, we can definitely assume that like he went out of his way to like change
• 45:10
  Track 3: all of like the official records about what happened to her because like she
• 45:14
  Track 3: goes looking for herself and finds out, oh, like,
• 45:18
  Track 3: oh, she's got Norwegian adopted parents or some shit. Here's the mailing address.
• 45:22
  bill: Yeah.
• 45:22
  Track 3: And then she gives it to fucking Desu and he's like, oh, I'll worry about that
• 45:26
  Track 3: later after I get my vengeance.
• 45:27
  Evan: Yeah it also the amount of research when
• 45:30
  Evan: he hears like the word evergreen he doesn't put it in into
• 45:34
  Evan: place that that like is the school he went to as a child i
• 45:36
  Evan: mean they don't say he went there the whole time right it seemed like he just
• 45:39
  Evan: went there for maybe a couple of years but like he doesn't remember like if
• 45:42
  Evan: someone mentioned to me my like high school mascot or something yes i would
• 45:47
  Evan: remember that be a pretty pretty obvious thing i mean you said it before uh
• 45:51
  Evan: war was like wujins like you just forgot you didn't like we didn't make you,
• 45:56
  Evan: not remembers like you're just a fucking arrogant sort of person who doesn't
• 46:01
  Evan: care about anything he doesn't care about his child doesn't care about anything.
• 46:04
  Track 3: I want to say like the ringtone is like the school's anthem i.
• 46:08
  Evan: Think it was.
• 46:09
  bill: Get out i did not pick up.
• 46:10
  Track 3: On that that's.
• 46:11
  Evan: That's pretty well that was that was like very clear like later when they showed
• 46:14
  Evan: them and that's that really cool shot where they're sort of it's half of each
• 46:17
  Evan: of their faces and he's talking about.
• 46:19
  Track 3: How he.
• 46:19
  Evan: Was able to sort of the call and the ringtone and made him fall asleep and the
• 46:23
  Evan: whole thing it's because they're very susceptible to um.
• 46:26
  Track 3: Yeah i mean every 15 years in prison every time that gas came on same song and
• 46:30
  Track 3: you didn't figure out it was your school song uh.
• 46:33
  bill: I don't know my school song from high school.
• 46:35
  Track 3: Yeah i don't either i yeah i don't know we even had one yeah i like how we're
• 46:40
  Track 3: all like how did you not know that and then we're all like actually you know
• 46:42
  Track 3: what maybe fair that's that might be fair.
• 46:45
  bill: Why would you know that.
• 46:46
  Track 3: Like the only reason you would be out of context in prison yeah.
• 46:49
  bill: Like the only reason you would know that is if like wujin you're fucking fixated on something like.
• 46:54
  Track 3: Yeah he only knows these.
• 46:56
  bill: Things like honestly like this entire thing like we're like it's like you just
• 47:01
  bill: forgot it's like yeah man because he didn't fuck his sister.
• 47:05
  Track 3: Like you heard it here folks left of the projector podcast says if you know
• 47:09
  Track 3: your high school's anthem by heart and by ear you're a sister fucking loser but like it's like yeah.
• 47:15
  bill: Like like so much of this so much of this movie and this character's movie, it's all projection.
• 47:23
  bill: It's all projection. Yeah, man, no, he didn't remember. Why would he?
• 47:28
  bill: He didn't fuck his sister, and then she didn't commit suicide because of that.
• 47:35
  bill: Like, no, he wouldn't remember these things because—,
• 47:39
  bill: His life doesn't revolve around the major mistake that he made because he didn't
• 47:46
  bill: fucking do that. You did.
• 47:49
  bill: And all of this is just projection on this, on Woojin's part. It's all projection.
• 47:55
  Track 3: It's all projection. Daysu's a pretty cool dude, you know?
• 47:57
  bill: I mean, he's not a cool dude.
• 47:58
  Track 3: We get introduced to him, actively talking shit to the cops.
• 48:01
  bill: That's true.
• 48:02
  Track 3: Trying to piss in their fucking police station, trying to fight them, actively talking shit.
• 48:08
  Track 3: Dude, I love the line when it's like, we don't want to see you again.
• 48:10
  Track 3: And he's like, just standing up straight as, as focused and like stern and like collected as he can be.
• 48:18
  Track 3: That's up to me. You fucking assholes. And then runs out.
• 48:21
  bill: I believe he gives him the finger too.
• 48:24
  Track 3: It's such a good line being told, oh, we don't want to ever see you again.
• 48:28
  Track 3: It's like, well, that's not fucking up to you.
• 48:32
  bill: I'm not saying D.C. was a good person. Okay. but i'm
• 48:36
  bill: just saying like like his wuxian's like
• 48:39
  bill: entire thing like it's all projection like yeah
• 48:42
  bill: he's really putting all of this on
• 48:45
  bill: day sue and like putting it
• 48:48
  bill: at his feet and like saying like this is
• 48:51
  bill: this is because of you i mean it's a
• 48:53
  bill: stretch but like you know we can look at
• 48:56
  bill: the way the ruling class does that constantly work it's like actually this is
• 49:01
  bill: this is because of you you're lazy you're lazy and you just had to work hard
• 49:07
  bill: enough to get where it's like all projection and it's like really you you're
• 49:12
  bill: lazy we're the ones doing all the fucking work like yeah.
• 49:16
  Track 3: We got the ruling class telling us we're fucking lazy we're pieces of shit but
• 49:19
  Track 3: we see we've seen what the recent epstein release what their fucking sex life looks like.
• 49:24
  bill: Yeah all.
• 49:25
  Track 3: Projection because they got fucked up sex lives.
• 49:27
  Evan: I mean you're right about the projection but i think what at least from other
• 49:30
  Evan: films of his that I've seen, and it seems like maybe it's a thing within
• 49:34
  Evan: South Korean films, or I think a lot in like Bong Joon-ho, you know,
• 49:38
  Evan: their films is there's no black, there's no like black and white,
• 49:42
  Evan: like this is the good guy. This is the bad guy.
• 49:45
  Evan: Like you see in American films, they create characters that are complex and
• 49:50
  Evan: maybe he didn't deserve to have himself in prison for 15 years,
• 49:54
  Evan: have his tongue cut off and be forced to have sex with his daughter.
• 49:57
  Evan: Like maybe that's a little bit of a stretch of what should have happened based on what he did.
• 50:00
  Evan: but he also isn't innocent and i think it's like making the characters be interesting
• 50:06
  Evan: instead of just this very much which it sounds like the american version of
• 50:09
  Evan: this was like josh brolin bad guy you know like you know good guy whatever i don't know exactly.
• 50:13
  Track 3: No it's like josh brolin bad guy but then like to reinforce that like the incestuous
• 50:20
  Track 3: guy is bad they go heavy hand heavier handed on the incestuous relationship.
• 50:26
  Evan: Okay where.
• 50:27
  Track 3: It's like oh he didn't see the brother and sister fucking he saw the dad and daughter fucking.
• 50:33
  Evan: Yeah and.
• 50:34
  Track 3: That's what caused the sister uh the dad um
• 50:38
  Track 3: like the that news getting out the dad took a gun and killed the whole fucking
• 50:42
  Track 3: family because he was fucking his wife and both the kids and like the son who
• 50:48
  Track 3: survived getting shot was like still in love and still wanted to like maintain
• 50:52
  Track 3: what his dad's incestuous relationship with the family was.
• 50:56
  Evan: I saw in the wikipedia it mentions it's so gross
• 50:59
  Evan: park chan wook's one of his influences
• 51:03
  Evan: is kafka and like the idea of like absurdity and surrealism and it makes a lot
• 51:07
  Evan: of sense actually like especially the final scene of the movie with like the
• 51:11
  Evan: snow and that whole thing there's lots of scenes too that are sometimes you
• 51:15
  Evan: feel like the movie is being shot like on a handheld camera and other Sometimes
• 51:19
  Evan: it's like very artfully crafted.
• 51:22
  Evan: I mean, the cinematography and the way that all of it is constructed is just
• 51:26
  Evan: incredible. I've really, really liked the...
• 51:29
  Evan: scene when they're confronting each other in the like the penthouse apartment
• 51:32
  Evan: and they're each looking in different mirrors but they're not like looking at
• 51:37
  Evan: each other they're just sort of this weird like reflection of each other and
• 51:42
  Evan: their actions but it's like not the same action i don't know you could probably
• 51:46
  Evan: interpret it different ways listen.
• 51:47
  bill: I'm not saying that this was a good person and that his.
• 51:51
  Evan: Character wasn't like i know multi-layered.
• 51:53
  bill: What i'm saying is that if someone was going to be punished in this way it should
• 51:57
  bill: have been the friends you want that's all he should have been in in you know
• 52:01
  bill: isolation for 15 years nah.
• 52:03
  Track 3: He was steady hanging out smoking cigarettes in a fucking.
• 52:06
  bill: Internet cafe.
• 52:07
  Track 3: This whole time.
• 52:07
  bill: The owner of that internet i really like i want to know why de su was the target because i mean i.
• 52:15
  Evan: Guess guessing his friend i mean because he probably i don't think it.
• 52:20
  Track 3: Doesn't even matter because it just goes to show how fucking petty and shitty
• 52:24
  Track 3: the evil guy the actual evil guy is yeah.
• 52:27
  Evan: Yeah i mean i was gonna say is he easily could have like tortured you know kids
• 52:32
  Evan: like you know as they're older later to uncover like who is the person who told
• 52:37
  Evan: the the first story right i mean given what all the things he's done i don't
• 52:41
  Evan: think it's beyond his uh there.
• 52:43
  bill: Are i do there are a lot of like i i felt like kind of like surreal and absurdist moments.
• 52:47
  bill: When he is talking to the hairdresser with the cap on as she is talking and
• 52:53
  bill: it like leads into that whole like flashback like the knees and stuff.
• 52:58
  bill: That was a real moment of surreality. Especially because it's like,
• 53:02
  bill: it's like he went there for like for info and he clearly got his hair done like
• 53:08
  bill: he's got the full cap on and just so out of place and yet she's filling him in but he looks so bored.
• 53:17
  Track 3: Yeah he looks.
• 53:19
  bill: So bored it's like god please stop talking i know i asked you but please shut up.
• 53:24
  Track 3: It's like fuck i shouldn't have asked i mean to be fair.
• 53:28
  Evan: He had been in prison for a long
• 53:30
  Evan: and like no longer had the ability to understand social cues perhaps yes.
• 53:35
  Track 3: I mean yeah even the first guy was like why do you talk like that and i guess
• 53:39
  Track 3: it's like he like even changed the way he talked just from sitting in there
• 53:43
  Track 3: and only listening to the tv no i'm not south korean so i can't pick up on the difference but yeah.
• 53:49
  Evan: I do wonder if any of the.
• 53:50
  Track 3: Language like.
• 53:51
  Evan: If if you spoke korean would the would like any of there be different meaning
• 53:56
  Evan: in some of the things that are going up.
• 53:58
  Track 3: Yeah i mean i feel like it would just be like if you were stuck
• 54:01
  Track 3: in a fucking private prison room with nothing
• 54:04
  Track 3: but like cable tv or local tv channels
• 54:07
  Track 3: for 15 years you're gonna basically pick
• 54:10
  Track 3: up a real news anchor non-regional
• 54:14
  Track 3: dialect because you watch that shit a lot a
• 54:18
  Track 3: whole lot and that's your only interaction true so that's why i'm kind of like
• 54:22
  Track 3: thinking that's had somewhat a similar effect or like even picked up um because
• 54:27
  Track 3: like we hear him repeating the um like medicine commercials and shit like that
• 54:32
  Track 3: and so like he might be doing it in like that super monotone matter of fact
• 54:35
  Track 3: i don't speak korean so i can't tell yeah.
• 54:38
  Evan: Yeah sam it's,
• 54:39
  Evan: can only go based on that i mean i'm guessing the translation is pretty good so.
• 54:45
  bill: Now i did not realize this was part of a trilogy um.
• 54:49
  Evan: What have you both there's no plot relation to any of the film.
• 54:53
  Track 3: Yeah it's simply thematic yeah okay.
• 54:55
  bill: So so it's purely thematic.
• 54:57
  Track 3: Vengeance is the theme okay all right yeah it's like um lady vengeance and sympathy
• 55:03
  Track 3: for mr vengeance are the other two movies right yeah i believe this is the.
• 55:07
  Evan: Second one of the three and it's usually considered to be the best of the.
• 55:11
  Track 3: It's definitely the best i.
• 55:12
  Evan: Mean especially the most.
• 55:13
  Track 3: I like the other two i look i like a
• 55:16
  Track 3: lot of south korean movies this was the second south korean movie i
• 55:19
  Track 3: ever watched and it's what really made me fall in love with uh south korean
• 55:23
  Track 3: movies um but i mean even to your point evan like you're saying like how uh
• 55:28
  Track 3: south korean movies they really like to lean into like not having clean cut
• 55:32
  Track 3: characters like this is a good guy this is a bad guy and stuff like that is one that,
• 55:37
  Track 3: a couple of that I remember was like The Chaser, where it's like it's a pimp
• 55:41
  Track 3: who's like trying to chase down a fucking,
• 55:44
  Track 3: serial killer, and then um, what is it?
• 55:48
  Track 3: The Gangster, the Cop, and the Devil, where like the gangster is like the actual
• 55:52
  Track 3: good guy that like took care like, that knows this like local girl,
• 55:56
  Track 3: and like who ends up getting killed by a fucking serial killer,
• 56:00
  Track 3: and like puts out all his fucking boys to go track this motherfucker down.
• 56:04
  Evan: Yeah.
• 56:05
  Track 3: It's definitely a recurring thing.
• 56:06
  Evan: I was trying to think of some other South Korean films I've seen that I would recommend.
• 56:12
  Evan: The ones I was, I mean, people probably know Bong Joon-ho's films first and
• 56:15
  Evan: foremost, but I would also recommend the, I can't think of the director, is The Wailing.
• 56:20
  Evan: I would highly recommend that movie if you haven't seen it.
• 56:23
  Track 3: Oh, very good movie.
• 56:24
  Evan: Memories of Murder, which is Bong Joon-ho also. Excellent movie.
• 56:28
  Track 3: Memoirs of a Murderer is also another good South Korean movie.
• 56:32
  Track 3: um some people accidentally watch it uh
• 56:35
  Track 3: when looking for memories of a murder crazy i didn't know
• 56:38
  Track 3: um yeah that and by some people i
• 56:41
  Track 3: mean me that's me i'm some people um i
• 56:44
  Track 3: watched that one first i was like this was fantastic no wonder people were
• 56:47
  Track 3: like speaking highly of this film and then i realized oh i
• 56:50
  Track 3: watched the wrong one and then i watched bong june ho's
• 56:53
  Track 3: film and i was like oh this is so fucking good but
• 56:56
  Track 3: also memoirs of a murder is a good movie i highly recommend um yeah i most i
• 57:02
  Track 3: got into south korean movies like through the mostly revenge films at first
• 57:07
  Track 3: and so like films like um yeah the chaser uh i saw the devil um the man from nowhere shit like that,
• 57:15
  Track 3: yeah um joint security area is another good thirst.
• 57:18
  Evan: Is another good one if you like vampire films.
• 57:20
  Track 3: Oh yeah so.
• 57:22
  Evan: Much to like a different sort of.
• 57:23
  Track 3: Train to busan train busan yeah i.
• 57:26
  bill: Love train to busan.
• 57:26
  Evan: Trying to think of if there's any others that i can think of you said i saw the devil or.
• 57:30
  Track 3: We We definitely need to check out No Other Choice once we get a chance,
• 57:34
  Track 3: and I think we're going to end up covering it.
• 57:36
  Evan: Yes, I need to see that movie. It's coming out. I had a chance to see it like
• 57:41
  Evan: an early release, but wasn't able to go.
• 57:46
  Evan: But I believe it's coming out in American theaters either very soon or is out.
• 57:52
  Track 3: It's that movie that I sent the meme where I was like, there's a South Korean
• 57:56
  Track 3: movie about the horrors of capitalism, and it's supposed to be nuts.
• 57:59
  Evan: Oh, it comes out on Christmas.
• 58:03
  Evan: Christmas movie with your family. Go see No Other Choice.
• 58:06
  Track 3: Dude, new Christmas movie.
• 58:08
  Evan: Man, I'm going to have to find a way to sneak off and see this. Maybe not on Christmas.
• 58:13
  bill: You don't? Do you celebrate Christmas?
• 58:17
  Evan: Well, no, but this year I will be.
• 58:19
  bill: You don't celebrate?
• 58:22
  Track 3: I'm going to sneak away on Christmas.
• 58:23
  Evan: It's not because it is Christmas, but because we still do stuff as family type
• 58:31
  Evan: of. And this year actually we'll be celebrating with cousins who do celebrate Christmas, so.
• 58:36
  bill: Okay.
• 58:36
  Evan: This year will be different.
• 58:39
  Evan: Yeah, I definitely need to see that. I don't know, just because it's going to be.
• 58:43
  Track 3: Thank you, Bill. You beat me to it, by the way. I was going to try to hammer that point, too.
• 58:49
  Track 3: Oh, that doesn't make sense.
• 58:53
  Track 3: Should be super easy to sneak away.
• 58:56
  Evan: Well, usually we do see like a movie.
• 58:59
  Track 3: Sneaking away from nothing.
• 58:59
  Evan: Usually on Christmas, my family sees like a movie and has dinner at a Chinese
• 59:04
  Evan: restaurant. But because we'll be with this other family, that's not their tradition.
• 59:08
  bill: So we'll do that for like you just go on Christmas this.
• 59:12
  Track 3: Is my tradition on.
• 59:14
  bill: Christmas your family eats Chinese food and goes to the movie theater color me shocked.
• 59:21
  Evan: I think we're the only ones who do that though like they open the movie theaters just for me.
• 59:25
  Track 3: Yeah I don't think anyone ever could possibly do those kind.
• 59:29
  bill: Of activities any other Jewish person in New York New Jersey.
• 59:35
  Evan: Yeah I don't usually see any I don't want to count. The Chinese restaurant has
• 59:38
  Evan: no line. There's, like, just me in the theater. You know, whatever.
• 59:42
  Evan: I just assumed it was because they like me. They let me do it.
• 59:45
  Evan: I do like, though, that it's subtitled.
• 59:47
  Evan: They don't, like, dub it, which is good. I mean, they don't usually dub these kind of movies anyway.
• 59:51
  bill: You know, it's funny, you know, that I didn't really think about.
• 59:54
  bill: And I'm curious as to whether the director really, like, intentionally,
• 1:00:00
  bill: you know, was making commentary in the private prison system.
• 1:00:04
  bill: But this is, if it wasn't intentional, this is a remarkable piece on the,
• 1:00:12
  bill: horrors of the carceral system and the private prison system in the United States.
• 1:00:18
  bill: And I actually don't know what the prison system in South Korea is like,
• 1:00:23
  bill: but this is an incredibly poignant,
• 1:00:29
  bill: or pointed criticism and observation of the manner in which the private prison
• 1:00:35
  bill: system functions and the way the carceral system does not function as a means
• 1:00:39
  bill: of rehabilitation, but instead,
• 1:00:42
  bill: destroys the humanity and community and sanity of people who are put into it.
• 1:00:47
  Track 3: I absolutely agree. And it's like the sexiest revenge film of all time.
• 1:00:53
  Evan: Yeah, I don't, I mean, his politics based purely on Wikipedia,
• 1:00:58
  Evan: I don't know him deeper than that. It seems like he-
• 1:01:00
  Track 3: We've got to watch the new one, I'm telling you. We've got to watch the new one.
• 1:01:03
  Evan: It seems like he sort of would consider himself like a progressive.
• 1:01:05
  Evan: It seems like his politic leaning, which doesn't mean he still couldn't make
• 1:01:09
  Evan: it. I mean, I think we've said this before.
• 1:01:10
  bill: But a progressive in South Korea is very different than a progressive in the United States.
• 1:01:14
  Evan: That's true. And I was going to say, like we were saying on numerous episodes
• 1:01:18
  Evan: is, whether or not he was intentionally thinking about it as a critique of the
• 1:01:23
  Evan: prison system, maybe not.
• 1:01:25
  Evan: But his knowledge of the prison system could have easily just become part of
• 1:01:31
  Evan: the plot unknowingly, which would probably be my thoughts.
• 1:01:34
  bill: Again, we return to reality is Marxist. Like, it is not our fault.
• 1:01:41
  bill: It is not our fault that, you know, information is Marxist.
• 1:01:46
  bill: Like, the observing reality and material conditions is Marxist and makes an
• 1:01:52
  bill: argument for Marxist thought and ideology. It's...
• 1:01:58
  bill: That's because it's an accurate description of the way things were.
• 1:02:03
  Track 3: So I'm looking up some stuff. Park Chan Woo said that one battle after another
• 1:02:07
  Track 3: was his favorite movie of the year.
• 1:02:09
  Track 3: It, quote, it touched me personally to watch a failed revolutionary on screen
• 1:02:14
  Track 3: as someone who was a college student in Korea during the 80s.
• 1:02:16
  Track 3: And then I saw people joking about, what was it?
• 1:02:21
  Track 3: He invited all of the CEOs of
• 1:02:23
  Track 3: the Fortune 500 companies to like a special screening of no other choice.
• 1:02:28
  Track 3: and people were making jokes referencing like the uh the theater scene from
• 1:02:32
  Track 3: inglorious bastards it's like please let it.
• 1:02:34
  bill: Happen i.
• 1:02:36
  Track 3: Think we did we really take it out of you on this one with this one bill.
• 1:02:40
  bill: It really shocked me it shocked me um i.
• 1:02:43
  Track 3: Was hoping it would.
• 1:02:44
  bill: I was not expecting that i
• 1:02:47
  bill: mean it made perfect sense in the
• 1:02:50
  bill: in the in the terms of the movie it made perfect sense it was still insane and
• 1:02:54
  bill: crazy though yes um i just like it's like that's so and like especially because
• 1:03:01
  bill: it's like she didn't do anything to you man like she didn't do anything to you
• 1:03:04
  bill: this poor girl like she didn't fucking do anything to you man like no what the fuck,
• 1:03:09
  bill: what the fuck man like there's something about the the villains like wujin that
• 1:03:17
  bill: really bother me Those kinds of villains that try to put their shit on other people.
• 1:03:26
  bill: Like it really bothers me. I'm like, you don't get like,
• 1:03:32
  bill: own your shit like straight up like own your shit like if you're gonna like be it fuck.
• 1:03:37
  Track 3: You can own that penthouse but you can't own your shit.
• 1:03:40
  bill: Like be a bad
• 1:03:43
  bill: person like i'm gonna judge you but like fucking like
• 1:03:46
  bill: own it like you know like don't
• 1:03:50
  bill: put your shit on other people don't you
• 1:03:53
  bill: know like make out like it's because you like
• 1:03:56
  bill: dude you fucked your sister like and you
• 1:04:00
  bill: you liked it like you're like like
• 1:04:04
  bill: this is your fault like all
• 1:04:07
  bill: of these actions everything everything that
• 1:04:11
  bill: happened here i'm not saying desu
• 1:04:14
  bill: is a great guy but like most of
• 1:04:18
  bill: even his like not being a good person has no
• 1:04:22
  bill: bit no relation to you at all none
• 1:04:26
  bill: whatsoever like what happened
• 1:04:30
  bill: to your sister barely has a relation to him like
• 1:04:34
  bill: you're projecting and looking for excuses to make yourself feel better about
• 1:04:39
  bill: the horrible shit you're doing to this person because in reality you have no
• 1:04:44
  bill: justification for what you're doing and i i villains like that make me angry
• 1:04:49
  bill: like personally like i fucking hate it it makes me so angry i'm.
• 1:04:53
  Track 3: So glad you watched this then because like i mean he reinforces that from like
• 1:04:58
  Track 3: pretty early on as the bad guy going like whether it's a rock or a grain of
• 1:05:04
  Track 3: sand they both sink the same and it's just truly a grain of sand that he is making into a rock yeah.
• 1:05:11
  bill: I just i'm.
• 1:05:12
  Track 3: So glad you watched it.
• 1:05:13
  bill: Guys it makes me so angry it's up there with it's up there with the villain
• 1:05:18
  bill: saying to the hero if you strike me down you're just as bad as me fuck you fuck
• 1:05:23
  bill: yourself no it's not no no I'm not,
• 1:05:26
  bill: This is the same thing. It's the same thing for me.
• 1:05:29
  bill: I like villains where it's like they put their shit on other people.
• 1:05:32
  bill: They're like, you know, look what you made me do.
• 1:05:34
  bill: It's the look at what you made me do thing. And it makes me so angry.
• 1:05:38
  bill: Own your shit. That is my like lesson in life for like, like own your shit.
• 1:05:42
  bill: Read Lennon, grow up, own your shit. Fucking there you go.
• 1:05:45
  Track 3: Yeah.
• 1:05:46
  Evan: I think that's.
• 1:05:46
  Track 3: I like it. I like it too. Cause it's like, he tries to hold his like romantic
• 1:05:52
  Track 3: vision of himself as a person. Woojin.
• 1:05:55
  bill: Yeah.
• 1:05:56
  Track 3: And it's like, it's funny because when Deisu gets in the fucking elevator with
• 1:06:00
  Track 3: him, he's just like, you fucked your sister.
• 1:06:03
  bill: Yeah.
• 1:06:05
  Track 3: I love it because it's just like, all of that goes out the window.
• 1:06:08
  bill: And he does not like that.
• 1:06:10
  Evan: He thinks it's so, he's like, I fucking got you, motherfucker.
• 1:06:14
  Evan: And then he's like, you should have waited 15 minutes, buddy.
• 1:06:18
  Track 3: Yeah. Like, it just hits him so bluntly. You fucked your sister.
• 1:06:24
  Track 3: I know. It's a great time. And if you didn't watch it and you're still listening,
• 1:06:28
  Track 3: why the fuck didn't you watch it?
• 1:06:30
  Evan: Pause it right now.
• 1:06:31
  Track 3: I hope you do go watch it.
• 1:06:32
  Evan: Well, thanks everyone for listening to Left Projector. Follow,
• 1:06:35
  Evan: subscribe, and subscribe to the Patreon. And we'll catch you next time with Bill and Ward.
• 1:06:40
  Track 3: Have a good one.
• 1:06:41
  bill: Have a good one, folks.