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Treasure Planet · This Film is Lit

• 0:04
  Speaker A: This Film Is lit, the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple Is the book really better than the movie? I'm Brian and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: And I'm Katie, I have an English degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie.
• 0:22
  Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen the or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in, and get ready for spoilers, because this film is lit. Look at you, glowing like a solar fire. You're something special, Jim. You're gonna rattle the stars. You are. It's Treasure Planet. And and this film is Lit. Hello and welcome back to this Film Was lit the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. We have every single one of our segments this week, so we're gonna jump right in. If you have not read or watched Treasure Planet or Treasure island, we're gonna give you a brief summary of the film in Let me sum up. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up. Rambunctious teenager Jim Hawkins lives on the planet Montresor, helping to run his mother Sarah's inn, where the stricken pilot of a crashed spaceship gives him a sphere and warns him to beware the cyborg before dying. The inn is then attacked by pirates, and Jim and Sarah flee with the help of their friend Dr. Delbert Doppler, who discovers the sphere contains a holographic map leading to the location of the fabled Treasure Planet where the vast fortune of pirate Captain Flint is supposedly hidden. Jim decides to seek out the treasure in order to rebuild Sarazin and provide a better life for them both. Dopler accompanies Jim and commissions the ship RLS Legacy, commanded by Captain Amelia and her first mate, Mr. Arrow. Jim works in the ship's galley under the supervision of cook John Silver, whom Jim suspects is the cyborg that he was warned about. Despite that, he and Silver form a bond, though he is suspicious of the influence Silver has over the ship's motley crew. The ship passes a supernova devolving into a black hole, and Jim is ordered to secure the Crew's lifelines. However, Mr. Arrow is lost when ruthless crew member Scroop secretly cuts his lifeline. Scroop blames the loss of Arrow on improperly secured lifelines, which sees Jim ostracized by Amelia and the rest of the crew, though he is comforted by Silver and his shape shifting alien familiar, Morph. The Legacy reaches Treasure Planet where the crew are revealed to be pirates led by Silver, and they begin a mutiny. Jim retrieves the map and escapes along the Doppler along with Doppler and Amelia in the lifeboat, which is shot down and crash lands on the planet, injuring Amelia. There they encounter Ben, a navigational robot who previously belonged to Flint, but is missing his primary memory circuit. After the map is revealed to be Morph in disguise, Jim, Morph and Ben sneak on board the Legacy to retrieve the real map, defeating Scroop as he attempts to stop them. Them. The three return to their camp to find the pirates holding Dopler and Amelia hostage, and Silver forces Jim to use the map. The map directs them all to a large portal which Flint used to travel to and raid every planet in the known universe. Jim realizes that Treasure Planet is a giant piece of machinery and opens the portal to the core where the treasure is stored. As the pirates begin looting, Jim finds the skeleton of Flint holding Ben's missing circuit. He reinstalls the circuit and Ben remembers that Flint rigged the planet to self destruct if anyone entered the treasure chamber. The pirates subsequently succumb to the planet's destruction, while Silver leaves the treasure to escape with Jim. The survivors board the Legacy, which becomes damaged and unable to escape the blast. But Jim rigs the ship's sail to ride back to the portal, setting it to Montresor Spaceport, allowing Doppler to steer the Legacy through the portal to safety. Jim finds Silver below deck and allows him to escape. As a farewell gift, he gives Jim a handful of treasure he had salvaged from Flint's hoard back on Montresor. Jim uses the treasure to help Sarah rebuild the inn, where Ben becomes a waiter, Dopler and Amelia start a family, and Jim, having matured under Silver's mentorship, accepts Amelia's offer to become a cadet at the Interstellar Academy. The end. We do have one guess who this week, so let's do it. Who are you? No one of consequence. I must now get used to disappointment.
• 4:43
  Speaker B: Okay, I think you're gonna get this one.
• 4:46
  Speaker A: Yeah, I'm reading it and. Yeah.
• 4:49
  Speaker B: His left leg was cut off close by the hip. And under the left shoulder he carried a crutch, which he managed with wonderful dexterity. Hopping about like a bird. He was very tall and strong with a face as big as a ham. Plain and pale, but intelligent and smiling.
• 5:06
  Speaker A: I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this would be John Silver.
• 5:10
  Speaker B: Yeah. That is Long John Silver Hen.
• 5:14
  Speaker A: Because of his lack of a leg. Yeah, Pretty. Pretty obvious on that one.
• 5:20
  Speaker B: I thought this was really interesting when I read it, though, because it says that his leg was cut off close to the hip. And I feel like every depiction of Long John Silver I've ever seen, it's at the knee.
• 5:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. Which is the traditional pirate thing. I think, partially because it's easier to do that makeup.
• 5:39
  Speaker B: Yes. That was the. Practically as an effect that I had that. I bet that comes, like, obviously not from the book.
• 5:45
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 5:46
  Speaker B: But from media that followed the book. Because it's way easier to fake half a leg being gone than an entire leg.
• 5:53
  Speaker A: Much easier to tie their. Their leg up around their upper half of their leg and have them put their knee in a thing to, like, peg leg around on than it is to try to do it at the hip. So. Yeah. Makes sense in the movie. I think he actually does have a. In this movie, I believe his whole leg is. It may be more accurate in Treasure Planet. I would have to look at the character design again, but I think it may be more of his leg that is missing because he's also missing, like, part of his arm.
• 6:19
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:19
  Speaker A: And obviously, like, he has, like, the fake eye and, like, some gears on his head because he's a cyborg.
• 6:26
  Speaker B: Right.
• 6:27
  Speaker A: But I wonder if it is. If his leg. I can't remember exactly how much of his leg is missing in this. Or is robotic, I guess would be.
• 6:36
  Speaker B: The way to say it. But it's hard to say because his pants cover most of his leg.
• 6:41
  Speaker A: Okay, well, then maybe. Maybe I was just thinking of, because of the arm and stuff, that more of him was robotic than is traditionally depicted as missing in other pirate media. I'm trying to remember in. I'm pretty sure in Black Sails, he's just missing it at the knee.
• 6:57
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 6:57
  Speaker A: Fairly soon.
• 6:58
  Speaker B: That sounds right.
• 6:59
  Speaker A: So. Because we see him lose it in Black Sails. Yeah. It's the back.
• 7:03
  Speaker B: The origin story.
• 7:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, the origin story. All right, that was it for Guess who. One of one. Nailed it. But I have quite a few questions. Let's get into them. In. Was that in the book?
• 7:14
  Speaker B: Gaston? May I have my book, please?
• 7:16
  Speaker A: How can you read this?
• 7:17
  Speaker B: There's no pictures. Well, some people use their imagination.
• 7:21
  Speaker A: My first question is that the movie opens up. I will state I have not seen this movie before. Having watched it.
• 7:26
  Speaker B: I also realized that I have not. Had not seen this movie.
• 7:28
  Speaker A: Had definitely not seen this movie before. For the movie opens up with Jim Hawkins as a young boy, like five Maybe four, something like that. Going to bed, reading a bedtime story. That is the tale of Captain Flint and his adventures as a pirate. And I wanted to know if Treasure island had that. I don't know what the term for that is. Is there a term for having the story that you're having a story within the story you're telling about the story you're telling? Does that make like.
• 8:06
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, a story within a story?
• 8:10
  Speaker A: I guess. I don't know.
• 8:11
  Speaker B: Anyways would be what I called it, I guess.
• 8:13
  Speaker A: I guess the idea is that he's reading a history book, essentially. Yeah, essentially. Okay. Point being, is that element of our main character knowing about this mystery with Captain Flint and the missing treasure when he's, you know, before he gets thrust into this adventure. Does that element come from the book?
• 8:32
  Speaker B: It actually doesn't. The book opens with Billy Bones showing up at their inn, which is the Admiral Benbow, I think is how that's pronounced. It looks like Benbow to me.
• 8:44
  Speaker A: Jim has actually been bow.
• 8:46
  Speaker B: Ben Bao.
• 8:46
  Speaker A: Maybe just basing it on both.
• 8:48
  Speaker B: Sounds more shipish.
• 8:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, we'll go with Ben bao of the ship. So I don't know.
• 8:54
  Speaker B: I don't know. Jim has actually never heard of Captain Flint at the beginning of the book.
• 8:59
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 9:00
  Speaker B: So, yeah, he finds out about him later.
• 9:02
  Speaker A: Interesting. Because. Yeah. In the movie, he's like reading the script to Black Sails. And I was like, oh, okay. Yeah. This is what happens in Black Sails. Interesting. Speaking of Jim, one of the things we learn about him, we jump forward in the movie 12 years, I think, something around that. And Jim is now a teenager of some age. And we find out that he's a bit of a ne' er do. Well, he gets. He's cruising around. He has like a. They call this solar sail or solar board or something.
• 9:34
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's kind of like a hoverboard.
• 9:36
  Speaker A: It's basically a windsurfing board, except it. It's a space version. So it works. Not on water. You can just fly around with it. It's like a hover wind surfing board. And I wanted to know. But he gets arrested for speeding or doing.
• 9:50
  Speaker B: He's doing it in a restricted area.
• 9:52
  Speaker A: Sure. So he's a bit of a ne' er do. Well, he gets in trouble with the law. And I wanted to know if that was part of Jim's character in the book. That kind of sets him up because it gives him a kind of a direction and an arc in the movie of where his character is going.
• 10:10
  Speaker B: No, this does not come from the book.
• 10:12
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 10:13
  Speaker B: Book Jim doesn't really have much of a personality outside of being an adventurous young boy. He makes rash decisions cause he's a kid. But basically his whole personality is being a kid.
• 10:29
  Speaker A: Okay. Which makes sense because I assume that in the book the idea, which could also work in the movie, but I assume the idea in the book is very much the intention is to make it a self insert for the reader.
• 10:41
  Speaker B: Absolutely.
• 10:42
  Speaker A: So they don't give him too many defining characters.
• 10:45
  Speaker B: He does not have too many defining characters.
• 10:47
  Speaker A: So that any child reading the book can go.
• 10:49
  Speaker B: Any young boy can read Treasure island and say that's me, I'm Jim Hawkins. But I liked giving him more personality in the movie. I also really liked how it changed his motivations. In the book. He just wants to go on an adventure and that's pretty much it. But movie Jim wants to prove himself right. He's got a chip on his shoulder about it. And he also wants to escape from his current life. He even kind of has an I want song about it. He has like the. There's the song that plays like the one song that plays during the movie. It's not a musical number. But like the one song that has lyrics is like his theme.
• 11:31
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 11:31
  Speaker B: And if you go look at the lyrics, it's like this close to being an I want song.
• 11:36
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Yeah. 100%. Okay. Yeah, that's interesting. I make sense though. I kind of expected that. Well, and we talked about it and we'll get more to this later. But we talked about that in the book. He's a younger. At least somewhat younger.
• 11:47
  Speaker B: At least a little younger.
• 11:48
  Speaker A: We'll get to that. I saw you.
• 11:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, I have a note about that.
• 11:51
  Speaker A: Okay. Because just for reference, for people who didn't listen to the prequel, there was a note that we talked about in the prequel that one of the original writers on the script or something like that. I can't remember exactly who it was. I believe it was a writer on the script.
• 12:05
  Speaker B: I thought it was a reviewer.
• 12:06
  Speaker A: I misremembered it was somebody who had worked on the script at some point and then didn't or something like that. Thought that changing that aging up Jim in the movie to make him like a teenager when he interpreted the character in the book as like a young boy.
• 12:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:21
  Speaker A: Ruined some of the tension in the story. And we'll talk more about that later. But Jim's mom in the movie runs a saloon, slash in tavern, whatever. Some place where people stay and eat food. It's that classic old timey.
• 12:39
  Speaker B: You could Come here and, like, rent a room or have a meal or whatever, have a drink.
• 12:44
  Speaker A: And I wanted to know if that came from the book, that Jim is the son of a lady who runs a tavern. And does Billy Bones have a. Does his ship crash? Because in the movie, his spaceship crashes, like, on their.
• 12:58
  Speaker B: Yeah, like crashing onto their dock or whatever.
• 13:01
  Speaker A: Yeah, I guess it is essentially like a dock, but it's on the edge of a cliff. It's kind of like a Runway. And he crashes there. And I wanted to know if there was an equivalent where Billy Bones crashes his boat, like shipwrecks at their tavern or something like that.
• 13:17
  Speaker B: So in the book, Jim's mom and his dad. We'll get to that in a few minutes. Run an inn. I already mentioned the name of an inn. The name of the inn. So I'm not sure why I have it here again in my notes, but they do run an inn. Billy Bones does not crash a ship next to their inn, but he does arrive there. He shows up at the beginning of the book, but he doesn't immediately bite the dust.
• 13:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, he dies immediately.
• 13:44
  Speaker B: He dies as soon as he gets there in the movie. In the book, he stays at the inn for a while, and everybody hates him because he's a terrible guest. But Jim gets to know him a little bit before pirates start showing up looking for him.
• 13:59
  Speaker A: I actually like that. I think reading the book, I would like that the movie's version works fine, especially on a shortened, truncated.
• 14:05
  Speaker B: Yes, on a truncated time frame. And also, like, it's a kids movie. We want to start. We want to get into the action right away.
• 14:13
  Speaker A: So having a big.
• 14:14
  Speaker B: We don't want to, like, hang out with some old geezer for 15 minutes.
• 14:18
  Speaker A: But I could imagine that being really compelling kind of mystery in the book of like, who is this guy?
• 14:23
  Speaker B: Who is this guy? What is his deal?
• 14:25
  Speaker A: Why are these people looking for.
• 14:26
  Speaker B: Why is he like that?
• 14:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.
• 14:29
  Speaker B: And then, like, when creepy guys start showing up looking for him, it gets even more interesting.
• 14:33
  Speaker A: Yeah, I could see that for sure. Speaking of Billy Bones as he dies immediately upon crash landing on. At Jim's. At his mom's tavern, he hands Jim a wrapped object. And I don't remember what he tells him about the object, but he gives him the object. And his kind of final words before he dies are, beware the cyborg. And that was interesting, because I wanted to know if there was a similar cryptic warning or message that Billy Bones gives the gym. Obviously, he wouldn't say beware the cyborg, but I Was wondering if he gives him a cryptic message or if perhaps he just says like, beware John Silver, like Long John Silver or something like that. If it's more. And maybe the movie is making it more cryptic so that we get a twist reveal later or what is there an equivalent to that scene that comes from the book?
• 15:27
  Speaker B: So kind of. It's not as cryptic as what's in the movie, but I'll just read the excerpt from the book. He took me aside one day and promised me a silver four penny on the first of every month if I would only keep my weather eye open for a seafaring man with one leg.
• 15:47
  Speaker A: Okay. So yeah, essentially he says look out for having a peg leg is the equivalent of the Beware the Cyborg. A little bit different in terms of the stakes of it. It's not quite as much of a dramatic message as in more so of.
• 15:59
  Speaker B: Just a. Yeah, it doesn't really keep.
• 16:01
  Speaker A: An eye out for.
• 16:01
  Speaker B: It doesn't really feel like life or death the way it does in the movie.
• 16:04
  Speaker A: More so just like, hey, if you.
• 16:06
  Speaker B: Guy give me a heads up.
• 16:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, okay. But that's. Yeah, definitely inspired by the book for sure. But then I guess that also does a good. It does the similar thing then of setting up. I guess what it does there is. It does the same thing in both the book and the movie of setting up the villain but not telling us exactly who they are, but giving us a physical characteristic so that we can kind of try to figure out who this mysterious villain is. Which, yeah, is fun. But then some pirates show up looking for Billy Bones, who does not have nearly as good a biceps in this animated movie as he does in Black Sails. Is he. Is that mentioned? Was there a Billy Bones description in the book? You didn't include it?
• 16:49
  Speaker B: There is actually.
• 16:51
  Speaker A: What? We didn't do it in Guess who does it mention his giant guns? Giant biceps.
• 16:58
  Speaker B: I remember him as if it were yesterday as he came plodding to the indoor. His sea chest following behind him and a handbarrow. A tall, strong, heavy nut, browned man. His tarry pigtail falling over the shoulders of his soiled blue coat. His hands ragged and scarred with black broken nails. And the saber cut across one cheek a dirty, livid white. Okay, so it does not mention his magnificent guns. No, it does not. But it does also fit like old at this point.
• 17:30
  Speaker A: He's an old man at that point.
• 17:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, he's been through some stuff for.
• 17:34
  Speaker A: People who don't know who haven't watched Black Sails, which is apparently every Human being on the universe, in the planet, except for us. I never. I've never met another person who has watched Black Sails. It drives me crazy.
• 17:44
  Speaker B: No, I recommend it all the time.
• 17:46
  Speaker A: I know. I recommend it all the time. And nobody has ever seen it. And then they're like, what? I guess I'll watch it. And then they never do. And I'm like, but Billy Bones in that show is played by. And I can't remember the actor's name. He's been in a ton of stuff now. He was in Game of Thrones as one of the Lannister cousins or something like that. I can't remember. Was he? Yes, but. Or he might have been a. I can't remember. But he was also, if you watched Umbrella. No, not Umbrella Academy. Yeah, Umbrella Academy. He's like one of the brothers in that.
• 18:20
  Speaker B: Tom Hopper.
• 18:21
  Speaker A: Tom Hopper. He plays Billy Bones in Black Sails, which is a prequel. Essentially. It is the story of how Captain Flint got his treasure and buried it on Treasure Island. And so we're introduced to a lot of the characters. Billy Bones is the main character in that series. And Tom. Cooper. Cooper.
• 18:41
  Speaker B: Cooper. Oh, no, Hopper.
• 18:42
  Speaker A: Hopper playing him is constant. He's like the only one that, for whatever reason, always has his sleeves rolled up and is.
• 18:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, because you would never want to hide those biceps he has.
• 18:52
  Speaker A: Gigantic, beautiful. And we always call them Billy biceps. When he showed him.
• 18:58
  Speaker B: I'm not like. I'm not really a muscle girl. Like, I'm not like, oh, yeah, give me the muscles generally, but God damn, he is.
• 19:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, for sure. Anyways, does. Do a bunch of pirates show up at the end looking for Billy Bones and burn it down and do Jim and his mother escape just in the nick of time with the map to get away from the parrots. Par pirates and parrots the pirates and kick off their adventure.
• 19:32
  Speaker B: So. Yes, but it's a little different in the book. The movie. We already kind of mentioned the movie truncates the beginning of the story a lot. I already talked about how Billy Bones stays at the inn for a while, but he does eventually die after being visited by two different pirate acquaintances.
• 19:50
  Speaker A: Dies mysteriously. They don't know how they decide.
• 19:55
  Speaker B: He had had a stroke at one point, so he was already, like, in ill health. And then after the second pirate visits him, he, like, keels over almost immediately. Heart attack, maybe. I don't know. The stress got him.
• 20:11
  Speaker A: Is it implied that the pirate, like, poisoned him or something? Okay, that's what I was wondering if.
• 20:15
  Speaker B: Like, maybe it's more. I don't think so. Anyway, to me, I read it as, like, he was so scared and stressed out that his heart just gave out.
• 20:26
  Speaker A: Is the implication that these other pirates he's meeting are friendly or not friendly?
• 20:30
  Speaker B: Not friendly.
• 20:31
  Speaker A: But they're just showing up and just chatting with them. I'm sorry, I'm just confused at what the. Cause in the movie, it's very obvious. They show up looking for him and they burn the place down. I'm just confused at how they show up and leave and then he dies of a heart attack.
• 20:43
  Speaker B: So the first guy shows up, and the first pirate is named Black Dog. And he comes and he talks with Billy Bones. And basically, like, implies that he and this group of pirates know that Billy Bones has the map to Flint's treasure. And they're like, we're gonna. We're gonna be coming around to get that from you, Billy.
• 21:07
  Speaker A: Okay?
• 21:08
  Speaker B: Da, da, da, da. So then the second guy shows up, who is a blind pirate and his name is Pew, okay? And he gets there, and he is, like, even more threatening to Billy, and he gives Billy the black spot, which is like a summons to go meet with all of the pirates, Right?
• 21:32
  Speaker A: You see it in Pirates of the Caribbean movies.
• 21:38
  Speaker B: So then he leaves after giving Billy Bones the black spot, and he's like, we're gonna come back. Gotcha. We're gonna come back at this time, and we're gonna come back and have a meeting with you, but more threateningly. And then he leaves. And then Billy Bones is like, I cannot take this. And dies.
• 21:57
  Speaker A: Okay, that makes sense. Gotcha.
• 22:00
  Speaker B: Okay. Billy Bones dies. And then after he dies, they basically loot his corpse trying to find the key to his chest.
• 22:09
  Speaker A: Who is they?
• 22:11
  Speaker B: Jim. And also the doctor is there, and I think his character.
• 22:15
  Speaker A: Our characters.
• 22:16
  Speaker B: Our characters, the good guys, loot the corpse.
• 22:19
  Speaker A: Gotcha.
• 22:19
  Speaker B: To get the key to his chest.
• 22:21
  Speaker A: Yeah, he's a pirate.
• 22:23
  Speaker B: At which point, Jim takes, like, a packet of papers that are sealed in an oil cloth off of his person. So Jim knows that this group of pirates is gonna show back up that evening because he overhears Pew telling Billy Bones this. So he and his mother ride to the next village over to try to get help to, like, get people to come defend the inn, but nobody wants to go help them. And Mrs. Hawkins reads them to filth for this because she is bound and determined to go back and open up Billy Bones chest because he owes them money for his stay at the inn.
• 23:01
  Speaker A: And she's like, we're gonna get that.
• 23:02
  Speaker B: She's like, we're Gonna get the money that I'm owed. And so they go back alone, Jim and his mom, they go back alone, they get the money, and then pretty much slip out the back door of the inn as the pirates are coming through the front door. And the best part of the whole sequence, in my opinion, besides maybe Mrs. Hawkins reading the other men to filth. So as they're, like, leaving, and Mrs. Hawkins at this point has been very staunch the entire time. And they're leaving the inn and she suddenly announces, jim, I am going to faint. And then immediately passes out. And Jim has to, like, drag her under a bridge to avoid being seen by the pirates.
• 23:46
  Speaker A: So she. She just. She hit her limit.
• 23:50
  Speaker B: Yeah, she hit her limit. And she was like, that's it for me.
• 23:52
  Speaker A: That's it. Go to check out. You can handle it from here. So cool. So they escape with the map. In the movie, they make it to Dr. Doppler's place. House. I don't know. It seems to be his estate of some sort because they're, like, in his library. They discover that they have a map. They discover that they have a secret map. In the movie, it is this ball that Jim hits some buttons on, and it projects like a star map out in the room. And Doppler's like, hey, it's a map. I assume a similar scene where they just realize they have a map in those papers you were talking about happens in the movie. And they realized, oh, this is the treasure map to. In the movie, they call it Treasure Planet because they see the double X on the rings of the planet. Treasure Planet. This is the famous planet where Captain Flint buried his treasure. Let's go find the treasure. Jim is like, I want to go do this. And in the movie, I thought it was interesting that Jim's mom does not put up much of an argument against this. She's just like, okay, I guess. And I assume. I assume it's similar in the book. And my thought was that it's kind of a. Like, it's the time period thing of, like, it wasn't that absurd for a. In the movie. He's like 15 or something. 16, I don't know.
• 25:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Speaker A: A young teenager to be like, yeah, I'm gonna go try to find my.
• 25:18
  Speaker B: Go off on an adventure.
• 25:19
  Speaker A: Go off on an adventure and try to find a fortune or whatever. And she's just kind of seemingly okay with it. And I was wondering if that came in the movie or came from the book and if she's similarly kind of just okay with it and if it was just kind of seemingly explained away as like, well, yeah, it's, you know, this is what kids do. They go on adventure, like, whatever. Cause like, in a modern setting, nobody's mom is gonna. Most the vast majority of mothers are not gonna be like, okay, 15 year old, yes, go find a pirate king.
• 25:49
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, go sail around the world. Yeah, fight pirates. What could go wrong? So the book does not mention how his mother feels about him going, like, at all. We never find that out. And I do think we could chalk it up to the time period. I also think we could chalk it up to like, this is a kid's adventure story.
• 26:09
  Speaker A: Right.
• 26:10
  Speaker B: It's also narrated by Jim. And I guess it tracks that a boy somewhere between the ages of 10 and 15 wouldn't think it was important to tell us how his mother felt.
• 26:21
  Speaker A: True. That is true. Yeah. So Dr. Del, I keep Delbert Doppler. Delbert Doppler is the character's name in the movie, played by David Hyde Pierce, which is fun. But he is gonna finance this mission. He wants to finance this treasure hunt. So he hires a ship to take them to Treasure Planet. And we are. They get to the ship in some major port city, town, planet, wherever they are, and we're introduced to the crew. And in the movie, the crew is captained by Captain Amelia. I don't remember if she had a full name or if it was just Captain Amelia, but. And I wanted to know. We're introduced to her and she's a very like, no nonsense, but snarky and very eloquent captain. I liked. I thought her character was a lot of fun in the movie. She is, like, played by, oh my God, Emma Thompson really well. But she's very funny. Like in a first handful of scenes where we're introduced to her, she's again, very snarky, very quippy in a way that was very entertaining. And I wanted to know if it felt like that element of the character. I assume there's an equivalent character in the movie or in the book. I'm also gonna go on a limb. I know that it's a man. They gender swapped it. Where was everybody up in arms about them gender swapping Captain Smollett. But anyways, does Captain Amelia's characteristics feel similar to Captain Smollett from the book?
• 27:49
  Speaker B: A little bit. I think Captain Smollett in the book is definitely just as no nonsense as she is in the movie. But those specific factors that you mentioned of, like the eloquence and the snarkiness, I would say that the Movie amped up.
• 28:04
  Speaker A: Okay, okay, that makes sense. Is it are and they're obviously not pirates. They're just like, it's like a merchant ship or like what is the, like what is the ship they have hired? Like what is their so deal? Or does it explain, you know what I mean? Like, I don't know, like what?
• 28:20
  Speaker B: I don't know, like what Exactly. I don't know enough about ships from. I know they're supposed to be like.
• 28:25
  Speaker A: A naval ship that I don't think.
• 28:27
  Speaker B: You could hire that I don't think so. I, I, I think they just like, I mean, you like commission, whatever. Yeah. And then they hire the captain and the crew. Okay, so the captain was hired like separately from the crew.
• 28:46
  Speaker A: It would appear in the movie that she either was or is in the Navy or their equivalent of the Navy. Is Captain Smollett supposed to be or have been like a naval.
• 28:57
  Speaker B: I don't think it ever says okay, but I would assume yes.
• 29:03
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 29:03
  Speaker B: I mean, I think that's how you get to be a ship's captain, right?
• 29:06
  Speaker A: Well, I mean, not necessarily. I guess if you were like a fish, you know, fisherman, or there's a bunch of other ways you could get on a ship. I think that they're not all naval ships, but.
• 29:16
  Speaker B: Well, sure, I don't know, but to get to be a captain, I mean.
• 29:22
  Speaker A: But that's why I was asking what kind of ship it was. Fishing ships have captains that are called captains. You know, like large fishing ships have captains. Ships that haul cargo have captains. I don't think you have to be in the navy to be a captain. Like, you don't have to be in the military to be a captain.
• 29:42
  Speaker B: Right. Again, I don't know enough about types of shit.
• 29:45
  Speaker A: Well, I know you're the one who said she had to be in the Navy. I don't know, I was like, I don't think so. I, I think you can be a captain in numerous different ways. I just wasn't sure if he was a captain. Alexander Smollett is the stern disciplined captain of the Hispaniola. He is a competent and authoritative naval officer who is hired by Squire Trelawney to find Captain Flynn's treasure.
• 30:08
  Speaker B: There you go.
• 30:09
  Speaker A: So he was a naval Naval officer, supposedly.
• 30:14
  Speaker B: So I guess the he is a.
• 30:15
  Speaker A: Loyal servant of the crown as seen when he insists on flying the British flag over the stockade even though it makes them a target. Yeah, yeah.
• 30:24
  Speaker B: Well, we'll talk about the stockade later.
• 30:26
  Speaker A: Yeah. But anyway, so yeah, he is the captain because that's what she in the movies appears to be. She's wearing an outfit that looks naval military. Whereas a lot of the other crew just appear to be people, you know what I mean? Like there's sailors of the random people you can hire, ship hands you can hire at ports or whatever. They're not necessarily like part of the navy or weren't previously. That's interesting. And now I gotta wonder like, so I guess he was previously in the Navy because if you're in actively in the navy, you would think he would just be captain. Captaining his own ship. A naval ship, like a naval ship. And not like being hired to captain some private. Your private ship or whatever, you know what I mean?
• 31:07
  Speaker B: Well, you can probably do that when you like retire from.
• 31:10
  Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. Like either retired or.
• 31:13
  Speaker B: And then you can.
• 31:13
  Speaker A: Whatever.
• 31:14
  Speaker B: Yeah. Have your own ship. That's for hire.
• 31:17
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. And that's what I was wondering. I was just curious about his background. All right. So then we start meeting some of the rest of the crew in the movie. Random people, they don't really matter all that much. The main other person that Jim meets and who he is made the ward of kind of. Or he's a cabin boy. I think they say he's his cabin boy or something. He's basically becomes the assistant for the ship's cook. Who is. John Silver is the cook on the ship. And Jim is suspicious of him right from the start because he is a cyborg. And we got the cryptic clue from Billy Bones earlier about beware the cyborg wanted to know if John Silver is the cook on the ship in the book and if Jim is similarly suspicious of him because of the warning about in the book, the peg leg.
• 32:03
  Speaker B: So John Silver does join the crew as the ship's cook. Jim actually isn't all that suspicious of him in a moment that I think is meant to emphasize his youth. So he initially is worried that Silver could be the one legged man that Billy Bones warned him about. But then when he meets Silver, he's like, oh, well this guy is like really nice and super clean. There's no way he's a pirate.
• 32:31
  Speaker A: No, he judges that book by its cover.
• 32:35
  Speaker B: He's like. Because he hears from one of the other members of the party that the cook has one leg and he's like, oh no, this could be the guy. And then he goes and he meets him and he's like, oh, never mind. That guy's definitely not a pirate. He's got clean fingernails and everything.
• 32:53
  Speaker A: Classic.
• 32:54
  Speaker B: I think this change makes sense in the movie, given the other changes to Jim's character. Also, the way more cryptic warning at the beginning. And also because by 2002, the stories and characters are well known enough that I feel like it would maybe feel silly to audiences if Jim weren't suspicious in that moment.
• 33:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, maybe.
• 33:18
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 33:18
  Speaker A: It's hard to. I always hard to know with classic novels like this, how much, like, a movie in 2002, how much most of the audience would have any idea of the specifics of, like, you know, who John Silver is or what his deal. Like, because I barely knew, like, I was trying to remember, like, how this all played out. And I am familiar with, like, at least a little bit again, from having watched all of Black Sails. I knew a little bit about, like, what was all going on there. And even I was a little unsure of, like, in this, what John Silver's motivation was or, like, I knew he was gonna reveal to be the. The pirate that Billy Bones was talking about, but I didn't remember, like, okay, but is he gonna end up being, quote, unquote, the villain or not? You know what I mean?
• 34:01
  Speaker B: Like, I couldn't remember.
• 34:02
  Speaker A: So, yeah, I. I don't know how much that would have played in. But. And to be fair, in the movie, he is suspicious, but then kind of does similarly, you know, put that suspicion aside and becomes his friend.
• 34:14
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:15
  Speaker A: So, yeah. Does John Silver have a parrot in the book that is the equivalent to Morph in the movie and the movie, as I mentioned in the summary, John Silver has a pet thing called Morph that is a morphling little.
• 34:32
  Speaker B: It's a creature that can tiny shapeshift.
• 34:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's seemingly standard form. It's just like a pink ball of goo, basically. I don't know. That seems to be its default state. But it can transform into anything, basically. And. But the idea there being, like, I assuming this is a parrot because in the movie it does a lot of. There's a lot of jokes where it repeats things that people say and, like, mocks them and mimics them. And so I'm assuming it's based on a parrot. Is it?
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Yes, it is. John Silver's parrot is actually named Captain Flint.
• 35:08
  Speaker A: Really? I had no idea.
• 35:11
  Speaker B: He never becomes friends with Jim, though.
• 35:13
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 35:13
  Speaker B: But I liked Morph.
• 35:15
  Speaker A: Yeah, Morph's fun.
• 35:16
  Speaker B: I thought Morph's fun was fun.
• 35:17
  Speaker A: I thought he had a lot of fun little scenes where he. I liked the whack a mole scene where he. They're like, it's the little grate thing in the deck and he like pops up a bunch of different ways and Jim is trying to hit him with his boot or whatever. I thought that was fun. So I just mentioned that Jim starts suspicious of John Silver, but in the movie, but kind of similar to the book, becomes less suspicious of him because John Silver takes him under his wing and kind of teaches him the ropes of being a sailor. And they kind of develop this father son dynamic. Cause we know that Jim in the movie, his dad skipped. We get the backstory. His dad skipped town on them, basically.
• 35:57
  Speaker B: His bad dad.
• 35:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, he.
• 35:59
  Speaker B: Absentee father.
• 36:00
  Speaker A: Yeah, he left on a ship basically and just never came back. And I wanted to know if that dynamic, that sort of stand in, father son dynamic came from the book or if the movie that to me felt like maybe a Disney movie amplifying some of that relationship in a way to make it more relatable and more of a traditional, like kids, like, hey, you know, this is the kind of not subplot, but, you know, thematic undertones that are pretty common in kids media about like father figures and that sort of thing.
• 36:36
  Speaker B: Yeah. So in the book, Silver does end up taking a liking to Jim in his own way. Near the end of the story, he says that he likes Jim's spirit and that Jim reminds him of himself when he was a younger man. However, I would not say that they have a dynamic anything near to what the movie shows book. Jim does have a dad, but he dies shortly after the story starts. An event that doesn't seem to affect Jim all that much. The man dies mid paragraph and is like, never mentioned again. He's not important to the story. But I liked that the movie added that element. I think it adds an emotional arc to the story that the book largely lacked.
• 37:26
  Speaker A: Yeah, I also think it's just a nice subplot to have in there, especially because it goes the way it ends. It ends in a fairly okay spot. But trying to figure out, okay, how do we write thematically relevant stuff into this story for young audience? And the idea of, well, lots of kids have dealt with, you know, either their parent passing away or the, you know, or leaving, abandoning the family, whatever, and then kind of like. I think you could see this as kind of the stand in for like a step parent relationship. If you're translating it more directly to the, like, the real world of like that idea of, you know, there's this guy who comes in to your life who you don't know and you don't necessarily trust Right away. But then you learn to like them and they, you know. And so, yeah, I think it. I think it totally makes sense. And it gives them both a kind of a nice character arc where John Silver becomes, you know, enamored of Jim and Jim likes John a lot. And also it allows him to grow as a person and become a. An actual sailor.
• 38:35
  Speaker B: And they both improve each other.
• 38:36
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 38:37
  Speaker B: Over the course of the film.
• 38:38
  Speaker A: Is there an equivalent to the supernova. Supernova slash black hole scene where one of Silver's mutinous crew kills the first mate? Because in the movie they approach a supernova that is exploding, but then it then starts collapsing into a black hole. So first they're running away from an exploding supernova, then they start running away from a collapsing black hole. All of this happening on much. On super truncated timelines as opposed to how it would actually, I think. I think a supernova exploding and then becoming a black hole happening happens on the scale of like billions of years or at least millions of years. And it happens in like five minutes in the movie. But it's fun. It's a fun set piece, fun action scene. And so. And we read this in the summary, but one of the Mr. Arrow who was the first mate to Captain Amelia ends up getting sucked into the black hole because one of the mutinous pirate people working on the ship cuts his lifeline. So he gets drug overboard essentially and dies. And I wanted to know if there was an equivalent scene in the movie with like. Or in the book where it's like a hurricane or something, you know what I mean? Because I could imagine a similar thing.
• 39:52
  Speaker B: The first mate in the book is Mr. Arrow and he does die, but there's not an equivalent dramatic scene. Book Mr. Arrow, very different from movie. Mr. Arrow in the book he is an old drunkard. Nobody really likes him and he just vanishes one night. Everyone assumes that he probably got drunk and fell overboard. Although there is a case to be made that Silver murdered him.
• 40:18
  Speaker A: This Silver specifically.
• 40:20
  Speaker B: Yeah, okay.
• 40:20
  Speaker A: Because yeah, in the movie they make it one of his shitty crew members that he hired on. Who are his crew in the movie is much less noble. He's more of a noble pirate, seemingly in the movie, you know, he's one of the good pirates.
• 40:35
  Speaker B: He's a pirate with a code.
• 40:36
  Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. Where the rest of his crew is just like, we'll kill whoever they need to. To.
• 40:42
  Speaker B: Yeah. I would not say he's so noble in the book. He. He kills several people in the book.
• 40:48
  Speaker A: It's interesting because it's actually kind of a similar scene. And it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Black Sails mimics a lot of the plot points from Treasure island because they're kind of setting up the idea that all of these characters have done similar things before, because that's one of the main plot points in Black Sails. Spoilers for Black Sails is that Billy Bones goes overboard one day while they're out at sea. And I think it's Captain Flint who is with him when it happens. And everybody is unsure. Flint's like, oh, no, he just went overboard. And everybody's like, did he not.
• 41:21
  Speaker B: Did he, did he?
• 41:23
  Speaker A: Or did you kill him? Because they were. They had a. I think that's at the point where Billy Bones has been like rabble rousing about Flint's leadership or something like that. I can't recall exactly. Anyway, so, yeah, it's very similar plot point there. And I was like, okay, that makes sense that, yeah, Black Sails is doing the prequel version of a lot of these events as they play out, because time's a flat circle being the idea. So after all that goes down, we get to Treasure Planet, they arrive. There isn't much in the movie. Again, it's fairly short movie, so a lot of. I imagine there may be some more hijinks on the way to Treasure island in the book. Maybe not, but they just kind of get there pretty quickly and easily in the movie. They just arrive at Treasure Planet and as they get there, they basically immediately something happens and, oh, I think it's right after the. The Black Hole issue or something like that. Silver's like, all right, mutiny time. We got to move up our plans. We're taking over the ship. They take over the ship. But luckily Jim, Amelia and Dr. Delbert, or whatever his name is, Dr. Doppler are all able to get into a lifeboat and escape just in time. But they get shot at and Amelia gets injured. But do our main. Do our heroes escape the mutiny or is there a mutiny and do our heroes escape on a rowboat?
• 42:50
  Speaker B: Yes, but it's far less dramatic. Similar to the movie, Jim finds out about the mutiny shortly before they arrive at the island and he warns the others. And the captain sends Silver and most of the pirates ashore ahead of them. And then the non mutinous party takes a bunch of supplies and holes up at Flint's old stockade on the island.
• 43:16
  Speaker A: Gotcha. So it's more than just the three of them. Yes, because there's more of the crew. The entire crew is not mutinous.
• 43:23
  Speaker B: Yeah, there are still some faithful members of the crew.
• 43:26
  Speaker A: Which would make sense. Sense, too.
• 43:27
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 43:27
  Speaker A: Because. Yeah. But, yeah, apparently in the movie, it is just. It was just Captain Amelia and her first mate. Yeah. And apparently the only members of the crew that were not pirate pirates working for John Silver was Amelia and her first mate. Every other one of the crew is apparently a pirate. So they get down to the Treasure Planet in the movie Treasure island in the book, and when they arrive, they find a robot named Ben, which stands for, like. It's an acronym. It stands for something. Some sort of, like, navigation.
• 44:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. Something. Something. Navigator.
• 44:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, something like that. But it's a little robot who doesn't have his memory. He's losing his mind because he doesn't have a memory, but he has a compass on his chest. And I was like, is there equivalent to this Ben character? Is it a compass or is it a character? And then I was like, wait, maybe it's Benjamin Hornigold. That's a character I remember from Black Sail. I believe he was a pirate who was formerly a naval officer who became a pirate and then started working again.
• 44:33
  Speaker B: Which is true for a lot of pirates historically.
• 44:35
  Speaker A: But then I also think he died in Black Sails. I can't rec. No, he might have lived. I can't remember. He was one of the older pirates in the show.
• 44:42
  Speaker B: He also might have been one of the real pirates.
• 44:44
  Speaker A: He is. Oh, yes. Benjamin Hornigold is a real guy. 100%. Yeah.
• 44:49
  Speaker B: So the answer to your question is yes. Jim is exploring the island, and he stumbles upon a pirate named Ben Gunn.
• 44:57
  Speaker A: Oh, different Ben.
• 44:58
  Speaker B: Y. Different Ben.
• 44:59
  Speaker A: I don't remember that. Is it. I don't remember that character from Black Sails. I would be surprised if they weren't in Black Sails, but I don't remember them in Black Sails.
• 45:07
  Speaker B: So he finds Ben Gunn, who has been marooned on the island for three years following a previous unsuccessful treasure hunt.
• 45:16
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 45:17
  Speaker B: And his. His. His crew that he was with left him there.
• 45:20
  Speaker A: Has he. Is he kind of losing it?
• 45:22
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 45:22
  Speaker A: So that's very much. So the equivalent of the robot who is. He's missing, like, his memory circuit. So he's kind of spacey and out there, and. Yeah. Can't remember anything. Yeah. They then are able to. They find. They get. There's a bunch of hijinks happen in the movie. It doesn't really matter. It's not all that important. But point being, they ultimately get the map, and they are able to. Silver basically kidnaps everybody, gets the map, and takes them all to the treasure spot. On the quote unquote island, the planet in the movie. When they arrive there, they realize that the treasure or that the map itself, they put it in this little thing on the ground and it opens this super space portal thing that was allowing Captain Flint to basically pirate anywhere in the universe that he wanted to just.
• 46:16
  Speaker B: Pop out of space.
• 46:17
  Speaker A: Anywhere. It's a portal through time and space that allowed him to go anywhere he wanted at any time, which is how he was able to be so successful as a pirate. And I was wondering if there was any. Which I thought was interesting, like a fun little, like, twist. And I. Obviously, there's no portal in the. In the book, but I was wondering if there's any sort of equivalent where it's revealed that the island itself or something on the island or something was responsible for how effective of a pirate Captain Flint was. You know what I mean? Like, if there's anything equivalent to, like, this portal being.
• 46:47
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I can't think of anything equivalent like, to that in the book.
• 46:52
  Speaker A: There's not even anything like the. Oh, the island they're on is in a particularly strategic position or something like. You know what I mean? Like, something like that.
• 46:59
  Speaker B: I don't remember that anybody ever saying anything like that and that would make sense.
• 47:03
  Speaker A: I don't remember anything like that in black sails. I like there being some. Anything, you know?
• 47:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 47:08
  Speaker A: Or. Or like, oh, there's some special. Like, they get to the island and there's some special ship there or something, you know, there's nothing like that. So. Okay, that makes sense. I thought it was an interesting change or an interesting addition. That makes sense. And it's kind of fun. Yeah. Where. Yeah. And you're like, oh, yeah, okay. So that's how he was able to get around and be. Be such a good pirate. So they find the treasure, they're able to open. They use the portal thing to open a portal to the center of the.
• 47:32
  Speaker B: Planet, which is where the treasure is.
• 47:34
  Speaker A: Where all the. Jim realizes, oh, the treasure is in the middle of the planet. Because earlier they found a passageway into the planet and realized it was like, it's not a planet, It's a machine, essentially. Like, that's no moon. It's a space station, basically. And they were able to get to the treasure room in the center of the planet. As they're walking in, John Silver trips a laser on the end. It's literally just right by the door. Not hidden at all.
• 48:01
  Speaker B: No, not at all. He just looked right through it.
• 48:04
  Speaker A: Well, and. Yeah. And, like, you can see the laser Emitters like sticking out of the ground. Like it's not even remotely hidden. Even if the laser was invisible, you can see the things shooting the laser. It's so silly, but I wanted to know anyway. So they trip that. And then we find out later, after the robot gets his memory back, he's like, oh, shit. Flint booby trapped the whole planet. So if anybody ever came into the treasure room, it would self destruct. The entire planet would self destruct.
• 48:33
  Speaker B: Right.
• 48:33
  Speaker A: And obviously the whole island's not going to self destruct, because in the book. But was there any sort of booby trapping or anything that that that is pulling from?
• 48:43
  Speaker B: There's no indication that the island is booby trapped. Although that would have been a fun touch. Surprised Robert Louis Stevenson did not think of that, honestly.
• 48:53
  Speaker A: But I will say there, sorry, finish this and I'll ask you. I have a question, just a broader question.
• 48:58
  Speaker B: The closest thing to this in the sense that it's like an 11th hour twist.
• 49:05
  Speaker A: Yeah. Because this is like a twist where the robot gets his memories back and it's like, oh, wait, the whole planet's gonna explode. Dun, dun, dun. Yeah.
• 49:12
  Speaker B: So the closest thing to that kind of 11th hour twist is that when the pirates get to where X marks the spot on the island, the treasure is already gone. Because Ben Gunn found it after being marooned on the island for three years.
• 49:30
  Speaker A: You would think eventually he would find.
• 49:31
  Speaker B: It and he moved it all to the cave that he has been living in. So the pirates just arrived to this giant empty hole in the ground.
• 49:40
  Speaker A: That's a fun twist.
• 49:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. And then start like arguing about it.
• 49:43
  Speaker A: Yeah. How do they event. Do you have a note about how they eventually. Who finds it eventually? Like, how do they find out?
• 49:48
  Speaker B: Well, then gun. Ben Gunn has no.
• 49:50
  Speaker A: I know, but like, so how does. How do. Who gets it eventually?
• 49:55
  Speaker B: Well, Ben. Ben Gunn joins up with heroes.
• 49:59
  Speaker A: Yes. Okay.
• 50:00
  Speaker B: And they all. They take the treasure.
• 50:01
  Speaker A: He like tells them, hey, I have the treasure.
• 50:02
  Speaker B: That's what I have the treasure. Because he just wants to get. Get the fuck off the island. So he's like, yeah, you guys can have it. Just get me off the island.
• 50:10
  Speaker A: Okay. That's what I was wondering. But my other question that I was gonna ask and because I kept saying things like, well, obviously the whole island wasn't gonna self destruct. And obviously there's nothing similar to like the portal. I'm realizing I actually have no idea if there are any fantasy elements in this book. I don't think there are. Correct. Okay. I just double checking that there's nothing like fantasy at all. It's a pretty straightforward historical, very straightforward historical fiction.
• 50:39
  Speaker B: Everything that happens could feasibly happen, or.
• 50:43
  Speaker A: At least seems like it could feasible. Like, yeah, there's. Yeah, they might be stretching a little bit of like physics, you know, whatever, certain specific things. But there's nothing obviously fantastical happening here.
• 50:54
  Speaker B: No, not at all.
• 50:56
  Speaker A: So they are, like I said, they find the treasure, they're trying to escape, but the planet is exploding and we get the end of the, we get the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade here where Jim, they're trying to escape. Jim starts falling and then ends up hanging on a wall. And John Silver has the pirate ship he's holding onto it that has all the treasure in it. But he looks over and knows that he can take the treasure or he can save Jim and he lets go of the treasure so that he can go save Jim. And I wanted to know if there was a similar moment in the book where Silver gives up the treasure so that he can save Jim because he's his new. He's his new son.
• 51:45
  Speaker B: Silver does end up like switching sides and turning on the rest of the pirates. And during the process of that, I guess you could argue that he rescues Jim, quote, unquote. What he really does is take Jim with him to rejoin the captain and the others, knowing that having Jim grants him some amount of safety. I wouldn't say that he switches sides because he likes Jim or had a change of heart. With the treasure missing, Silver sees that the jig is up and he doesn't want to be stranded on the island with the rest of the pirates. So it's. He like grabs Jim and they go.
• 52:27
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 52:27
  Speaker B: He also sees this as his chance to try and avoid the gallows once they all get back to England.
• 52:32
  Speaker A: Makes sense. So it sounds like I. This is an interesting question that maybe could have gone and like lost an adaptation or something, but I'm asking, I'm gonna ask it here. It sounds to me like your description of John Silver in the book. John Silver in Black Sails is a pretty similar type of, of character. It sounds like. Because that to me, that, that is kind of the quintessentially John Silver in the show is he is always, he's an opportunist who is always looking out for number one.
• 53:01
  Speaker B: He is self serving above everything.
• 53:03
  Speaker A: And he's not like a evil guy. No, he's not a bad guy. He's out for John Silver. Yes. And that. So that, that totally tracks that. Yeah, he, yeah, he does it he's not, he's. He's. He's not out to do anything. He's not evil for evil's sake. He's not going to do bad things because he likes doing bad things. But, but you know, so he, he will save Jim because it's the best.
• 53:26
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's convenient to him.
• 53:27
  Speaker A: Convenient.
• 53:27
  Speaker B: If it had not been in his best interest to save Jim, he probably wouldn't have.
• 53:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. He wouldn't have felt glee in him dying, but he also would not have saved him just to. Out of the goodness of his heart because that's not who. Okay. Yeah. That's very much the John Silver of Black sails as well. So we then get a big action scene in the movie. They're trying to escape. They need to get back to the portal or they're trying to escape the planet that's exploding. But they realize they're not going to in time or something.
• 53:56
  Speaker B: They're not going to get away from the planet before it explodes.
• 54:00
  Speaker A: So instead.
• 54:00
  Speaker B: But they can open the portal to where they started their journey and steer the whole ship through the portal and.
• 54:08
  Speaker A: Go through the portal. But they have to change. The portal is still set to the center of the planet.
• 54:12
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 54:13
  Speaker A: So if they fly through it, they'll just be in the planet again. So Jim crafts. He junkyard war crafts a, A hover like the, the, the thing he had at the wind surfing board thing, whatever that's got a name. Those are, those are a real thing. I think it's just wind surfing. I can't. I, I remember they were a big thing in like the 90s, you know what I'm talking about? Like during the, the, yeah. The extreme. The X X Games era. Yeah, I think it's just wind surfing. It's just a surfboard with a sail on it that you use to catch the wind and pull you around. He makes that but he can fly with it basically. So he does his own version of that. He builds one. This one's more just like a rocket powered one. It doesn't even have a sail. It's just like a rocket surfboard. But he's able to use that to get to the map so that he can trigger it and switch it to their planet so they can get home. But in order to do that he crafts this big. He rides his rocket hover surfboard through like this giant.
• 55:14
  Speaker B: The planet as its falling apart.
• 55:15
  Speaker A: Obstacle course of stuff falling and everything. And I don't have any idea what it could possibly be paralleled to in the book. But I was Wondering, you know, is he, like, rowboating? Like, you know, is he intensely rowboating to try to get somewhere in time to do something? Or is there any equivalent that Jim has to be hero in the final moment and do something like that to save them?
• 55:39
  Speaker B: So I had initially written down. I don't think there's anything remotely similar to this in the book. But thinking on it further, I think you could make an argument for the scene where Jim takes back the ship, okay, from the pirates.
• 56:06
  Speaker A: See, like, sword fight him or what is he. Is he, like, more clever? I assume he would have to be more clever because you were all, yeah.
• 56:13
  Speaker B: He'S a little more clever than that. So it's technically, I say pirates. It's only one pirate.
• 56:19
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 56:20
  Speaker B: It's Izzy Hands. Israel Hands, who we talked about in the prequel, was a real pirate, and Robert Louis Stevenson borrowed his name.
• 56:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 56:31
  Speaker B: For this. So basically what happens is that as everyone else is holed up in the stockade, the most of the pirates are on the island, and there are only two pirates on the ship. So Jim gets this bright idea that he's gonna sneak out and he's gonna, like, rowboat out to the ship and cut the anchor so that the ship becomes, like, unmoored.
• 57:05
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 57:06
  Speaker B: So he does this, and then as he's out there, like, he succeeds in cutting the anchor off, and then he's like, I'll just go up there and scope out the situation.
• 57:20
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 57:21
  Speaker B: So he does this, and there were two pirates up there. One of them is now dead because they got into a fight with each other. So he only has to contend with one pirate, Israel Hands. So they're kind of initially having, like. Like, a battle of wits, in a sense. And then Hands goes and gets his cutlass and tries to sneak up on Jem. But Jem also has two pistols, so they have a little bit of a fight where Jem doesn't want to shoot him. So he's kind of just running around dodging his cutlass while this is happening. The ship is drifting. The ship is drifting, and it ends up kind of rolling to its side against the beach.
• 58:11
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 58:13
  Speaker B: So the whole ship, like, rolls.
• 58:15
  Speaker A: That's classic set piece.
• 58:16
  Speaker B: And at that time, as the ship starts to roll, Jim is then, like, climbing the mast trying to get away from Hands.
• 58:25
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 58:26
  Speaker B: And he throws his cutlass and pins him to the mast, like, by his shirt.
• 58:32
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 58:33
  Speaker B: At which point Jim has his pistols. And, yeah, the book kind of goes to great lengths to absolve to, like, keep Jim from murdering a guy.
• 58:45
  Speaker A: Right. He's murdering a guy who threw a sword at him.
• 58:47
  Speaker B: He's got his pistols and he starts to drop his pistols as the ship is rolling. But as he drops his pistols, the pistols go off and kill the pirate. Okay, so I think you could make an argument for that as like a big action set piece for Jim specifically.
• 59:10
  Speaker A: For sure. Yeah.
• 59:11
  Speaker B: But even though it's not.
• 59:13
  Speaker A: Even though it's got like a fun, like dumb Keystone Cops ending where he drops his gun and accidentally shoots the pirate or whatever.
• 59:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's also. That scene is also obviously equivalent to the scene where he sneaks back on board the ship and fights with the spider arachnid guy.
• 59:31
  Speaker A: Because he climbs the mast.
• 59:32
  Speaker B: Yeah, he climbs the mast and everything in that.
• 59:34
  Speaker A: Yeah. But, yeah, sure, okay, fair enough. So they succeed, they get away. They escape the planet with none of the treasure, basically, except for a little bit. We find out that Silver had in his pockets that he took with them. But Jim decides to let Silver leave in a rowboat or in a little boat. He's like, get out of here so you don't get arrested for piracy or whatever. And they share a teary goodbye because they've grown to respect each other and have this father son relationship. And I wanted to know if the same thing happened in the book. Does Jim decide? Not that I don't know if he would be the one to choose. He's a little. I say little kid. I don't know how old he is in the book, but does he let John Silver leave and do they share a moment before he does?
• 1:00:24
  Speaker B: Silver does end up escaping once they get back to not the island, but Jim doesn't let him go. And they don't have a teary goodbye.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker A: So he just like disappears.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, he just disappears.
• 1:00:36
  Speaker A: Gotcha.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker B: With a bag of money.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker A: Slips away in the middle of the night with some money. Yeah, makes sense. And then my final question is, we get back, they're able to rebuild the inn with the money that Silver gave. Did they get any money in the book?
• 1:00:50
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah, they get all of it.
• 1:00:51
  Speaker A: Oh, they were able to find all of it. Okay, fair enough. Because, yeah, in the movie it's implied that, like, most of the treasure gets destroyed on the planet and like a little. Again, John Silver gets away with like a little bit in his pockets or whatever, basically. But he gives them enough that they're able to rebuild the end. The tavern, whatever. And then we find out that Jim has decided to join the navy. He becomes a cadet in the Royal Naval Academy. Whatever. Yeah. And I Wanted to know if there was a similar thing in the book, because that seems kind of like in the movie he has become under. Like the whole thing is him, like, getting under the tutelage of John Silver and their relationship and him growing to respect John Silver and all this sort of stuff. And then he becomes a cop at the end. And John Silver famously is a pirate. And I wanted to know. It felt a little antithetical to old John Silver's whole deal, but I wanted to know if a similar thing happened in the book.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker B: We don't ever find out what Jim did after his adventure. It is implied that he did not wish to ever go to sea again because that one adventure was enough.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker A: Fair.
• 1:02:02
  Speaker B: I do think that the movie's ending makes sense for Jim's character arc, although it is, in my opinion, kind of boring.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker B: It's fine that he just, like, becomes a cop.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. And to be fair, I think the idea is more so again, he becomes. He joins, like, the Navy.
• 1:02:18
  Speaker B: Yeah. He becomes a responsible adult.
• 1:02:20
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker B: Is the message.
• 1:02:23
  Speaker A: He joins the Navy and becomes just on the path to basically what Captain Amelia was, I would assume. But yeah. I was like, all right. I don't know how John Silver would feel about that. Considered. But, you know, that's fine. It's whatever. It works. It's. Yeah. For a Disney movie, it's a fine ending. All right. Those are all of my questions for. Was that in the book? But I do have one that I wanted to talk about in Lost. An adaptation. Just show me the way to get out of here and I'll be on my way. Yes, yes. And I want to get unlocked as soon as possible. I wanted to know if there was an equivalent to Dr. Delbert. Dr. Doppler. Delbert Doppler is his name in the movie. And he is like an astronomer. And he ends up helping finance the trip to find Treasure Planet because he. He just thinks it's fun, I guess. I. I don't know what's his whole deal? Is this character in the book, why does he want to go? Does he finance the trip? Why? Et cetera, et cetera.
• 1:03:25
  Speaker B: So Dr. Doppler is actually two characters combined into one. One of those characters is physician and Hawkins family friend, Dr. Livesey. Livesy. Dr. Livesey, I think I've seen.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker A: I don't know. Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  Speaker B: And the other is Squire Trelawney, who is a local rich guy who finances the expedition. As for why either of those characters want to go, you gotta remember that this is a super simple story. Adventure and treasure are the two primary motivators for basically everyone involved.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker A: That's fair, because that's what it is in the movie. Seemingly. Doctor.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker B: Yeah. He wants to go on an adventure.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker A: He's like, I want to go on this adventure.
• 1:04:08
  Speaker B: He's like, I've never done anything like this before. I might never get another chance like this.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's fair. I was just curious if there was anything else in the book, but. Okay. Time now to find out what Katie thought was better in the book.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker B: You like to read? Oh, yes, I love to read.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker A: What do you like to read?
• 1:04:29
  Speaker B: Everything. So we already kind of talked about this, but we spend hardly any time with Billy Bones in the movie. And I think a little more breathing room before the pirates attack the inn might have been nice. Also. I just really loved his mom being dead set on getting her money back.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker A: We love a girl boss.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker B: Funniest thing, too, is that she's, like, in the chest and she's counting out exactly how much he owed. She's like, no, she's not going to take extra. She's like, I just want what I owed. To me, this man has been in my inn for weeks, eating my food and scaring away my other customers. I want my money. Another line that. Just a random line in the book that I thought was funny. The doctor. The first time that a pirate comes to see Billy Bones and he, like, has a stroke afterwards, basically, the doctor comes to see him, and at this point, Mr. Hawkins is, like, on death's door. So the doctor comes and he finds out what happened, and he says, Mrs. Hawkins, just run upstairs to your husband and tell him, if possible, nothing about this. I totally get it, and I do think it's fine for a kids movie. But I also thought Naming the Ship the Legacy was a wee bit on the nose.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker A: Yeah. And just. Yeah, it's because it's the Hispaniola.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker B: It's the Hispaniola in the book. Yeah. The pirates in the book sing yo ho ho at a bottle of rum, which I don't think they get to do.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker A: They do not. Why would you not?
• 1:06:09
  Speaker B: Because then you would have to mark down alcohol references, I guess.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker A: But, yeah.
• 1:06:16
  Speaker B: I thought that book, Long John Silver seemed to be much better at talking his way in and out of corners and also manipulating the crew.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:06:26
  Speaker B: We don't see him do a ton of that in the movie. And he doesn't seem to be particularly crafty about it either.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker A: I think the movie, because they wanted to make him more of a good guy.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:06:40
  Speaker A: Makes him not quite as he's physically imposing at times and kind of scary sometimes, but he's not. He doesn't seem particularly, like, crafty or mischievous or like, smart even necessarily.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker B: He's a master manipulator in the book and he is very, very good at it.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker A: Yeah. I say. Yeah. Like, I know I have not read the book, but I watched Black Sails, so I know what John Silver's all about.
• 1:07:08
  Speaker B: A line that John Silver says to Jim that made me chuckle. It's a pleasant thing to be young and have 10 toes.
• 1:07:18
  Speaker A: Good. It's true.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker B: When we meet Ben Gunn in the book, the only thing this man wants to talk about is how much he has missed cheese fair. He says, many's the long night I've dreamed of cheese. And I was like, you know what? Relatable. Relatable content.
• 1:07:42
  Speaker A: Yeah, I get it.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker B: Another line that I really liked. I think either the captain or John Silver says this when they're having like a tete. A tete. When they're at odds on the parlaying. Yeah, they're parlaying. And one of them, like, gives this.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker A: Parlay in the book.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker B: No, I don't. I don't remember the word parlay being in the book. But one of them, like, gives his terms and then says, refuse that and you've seen the last of me. But musket balls.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker A: That sounds like great stuff. It is. That sounds like a line Barbossa would say.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker B: Yeah, totally. At one point. This is after Jim has retaken and summarily, he beached the ship event. Essentially. He goes back to the stockade at night and doesn't realize that it's the pirates in the stockade now. Because they did like a switcheroo.
• 1:08:38
  Speaker A: Okay. Because the good guys were in this.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker B: The good guys were in the stockade. But he goes back and now it's the pirates in the stockade. He doesn't realize it and he's like sneaking back in and he hears the parrot start talking. And it was like, super creepy.
• 1:08:56
  Speaker A: Because it's a similar scene in the movie, I guess, when he goes back after he gets onto the ship and then he comes back to their hideout and then.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker B: And the pirates are there.
• 1:09:05
  Speaker A: The pirates are there.
• 1:09:06
  Speaker B: Yeah. When the pirates are searching for the treasure, they find a human skeleton that's partly like grown into the vines and it's pointing the way to the treasure.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker A: So fun.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker B: I also thought that them finding flint skeleton was fun, but not as fun as a. As a vine grown skeleton pointing the way to the treasure.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker A: Pointing to the treasure.
• 1:09:30
  Speaker B: Pointing to the treasure is good.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:09:32
  Speaker B: There's also a scene where Ben Gunn hides in the woods and pretends to be Flint's ghost and, like, sings a song that he used to sing and scares the shit out of all of the pirates.
• 1:09:43
  Speaker A: Nice.
• 1:09:47
  Speaker B: Also, I just want to say for the record that Long John Silver would never be so careless as to trip a booby trap. Character assassination.
• 1:09:56
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, absolutely.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker B: Overall, I think I could have done without the Dr. Doppler caption. Amelia, relationship.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker A: It did nothing for me. It had a great line that I got to talk about later.
• 1:10:09
  Speaker B: It had a moment here and there, and I totally get what the movie was trying to do, but it felt hella undercooked to me.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, very undercooked.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker B: They leave the mutineers on the island in the book. We see them like all in the brig in the movie, and. Which I guess is fair because the island is like self destructing or the planet, rather.
• 1:10:32
  Speaker A: But don't most of them end up getting blown up on the planet or do they end up in the brig? I mean, I can't remember.
• 1:10:40
  Speaker B: I guess maybe some of them do, but we see a lot of them in the brig on the ship. But yeah, they just leave them there.
• 1:10:47
  Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, obviously, as you do what you do with mutineers.
• 1:10:51
  Speaker B: And I was pretty disappointed that in the movie, after all that, they didn't even get the treasure.
• 1:10:56
  Speaker A: The treasure was the friends we made along the way.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker B: Nah, Katie, they didn't even get the treasure.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker A: They got enough to rebuild the end.
• 1:11:07
  Speaker B: Treasure, planet, treasure.
• 1:11:09
  Speaker A: That's fair. Fair. It's fair. All right, let's go ahead and see what Katie thought was better in the movie. My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would. Happy endings only happen in the movies.
• 1:11:25
  Speaker B: I thought Mr. Arrow's death was better in the movie. More exciting, more interesting.
• 1:11:30
  Speaker A: I thought that was a super fun.
• 1:11:31
  Speaker B: He dies essentially off screen, Right. In the book, they just like wake up one morning and he's not there and they're like, oh, thank God that guy was a drunk.
• 1:11:40
  Speaker A: Yeah. Although I do like because it. I like because they do this in black sails too. Like when Billy Bones falls off the ship. We as an audience don't know what happened. We're left wondering, did he fall or did Captain Flint push him or whatever. And so I think you could do. I assume this is a similar thing here in the book where you're not sure, right?
• 1:12:00
  Speaker B: You're not sure. Like, it's easy to assume he just slipped and fell overboard because he is like a notorious drunk.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker A: Right.
• 1:12:08
  Speaker B: But there is that question of, like.
• 1:12:10
  Speaker A: Yeah. If you don't see it. Whereas in the movie, it's very clear, like, okay, well, that guy killed him. And then we deal with that immediately. So there's no real, like, mystery or intrigue.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:12:18
  Speaker A: But that's fine. It's. It's still fun. Yeah. And it's a great set piece.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker B: In the movie, Long John Silver has a nickname. In the book, his nickname is Barbecue. He's just. It's too many. It's too much. Also, Long John Silver's also already a great nickname.
• 1:12:36
  Speaker A: Well, it's also very funny that his nickname is Barbecue. Where there's a very famous chain of restaurants in the US Named Long John Silver's. They do not serve barbecue.
• 1:12:47
  Speaker B: Also, I'm pretending that restaurant chain does not exist.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker A: It basically. I don't even know if it doesn't. I feel like that's true. Our shutdown shut down.
• 1:12:54
  Speaker B: Maybe they don't exist.
• 1:12:55
  Speaker A: I don't know. I assume there's still some around or. But I actually have no idea.
• 1:13:04
  Speaker B: Book Jim makes a lot of really stupid youthful decisions and kind of just gets lucky that they all work out in his favor. Which is fine.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker B: But also gets a little uninteresting when it's like the same thing happening over and over again.
• 1:13:21
  Speaker A: Right? Sure. And then he bumble fucks his way.
• 1:13:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, pretty much.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker A: All right. Yeah. He falls off the mast and accidentally shoots the pirate that he.
• 1:13:31
  Speaker B: I thought that the good guys not actually having the map, but the bad guys thinking they do was an interesting twist because the good guys do just have the map.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker A: Yeah. In the movie, they get off the ship with seemingly with the map. Then it turns out that the map was more pretending to be the map. And the map is in fact still on the ship.
• 1:13:51
  Speaker B: Right. But the pirates don't know.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker A: The pirates don't know that. They think they have it. So that he's got a snake sneak back up to the ship to get the actual map.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker B: There's a truly confusing scene in the book where the pirates attack the stockade. And it really seems like our heroes are losing. Like, it seems like the pirates are overrunning them. And then suddenly it's like, yay, we won. The pirates are retreating. I'm still not sure what happened in that scene. I have not a clue. I did think that Jim letting Silver escape tracked with the rest of the movie's story changes. I thought that that worked as an ending. Last note here. There is a tiny bit of old Timey racism in the book. Overall, not too bad, but there is some. Yeah, could have been way worse.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker A: Yeah, fair enough. All right, let's go ahead and talk about the stuff that the movie nails. As I expected.
• 1:14:55
  Speaker B: Practically perfect in every way I put this here, since technically this is something that the movie nails. But I just want to give a posthumous shout out to Robert Louis Stevenson for being the goat of naming pirates. Billy Bones, Long John Silver and Captain Flint are all incredible. A plus pirate names.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker A: They are good. Yeah. I will say pirate names, though. I feel like you can kind of just do it. I do wonder sometimes how much those names feeling like iconic pirate names has more to do with the fact that they are from the ur text of pirates and have withstood the test of time more so than they are like, brilliant pirate names. Because, like, Jack Sparrow. Good pirate name.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker B: Sure.
• 1:15:42
  Speaker A: Also just kind of random, you know what I mean? Like. Like, I think there are lots of pirate names that. That you can just kind of come up with and you're like, that's a pretty good pirate name. You know what I mean? I don't know. Those are great ones. I'm not.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker B: These are great pirate names. I'm gonna stick to what I said here. Great pirate names.
• 1:16:00
  Speaker A: I agree with that. I just. I guess my note was like, how hard is it really to come up with pirate names? I don't know.
• 1:16:07
  Speaker B: I mean, I think at this point, does it matter?
• 1:16:10
  Speaker A: No.
• 1:16:11
  Speaker B: Well, because Treasure island is the Urtax of pirates, so, like, does it matter?
• 1:16:18
  Speaker A: I guess my question is. So let's say Billy Bones name was like Johnny Scholes, but everything else was the same about the book. Would we now be looking at a list that said Johnny Skulls, Long John Silver, and Captain Flint are a pirate names? We might be like, yeah, a pirate names. Because maybe I disagree. Billy Bones is better.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker B: Billy Bones is. Yeah, Billy Bones is better than Johnny Skull.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker A: Sure. I spent two seconds. If I spent five minutes. I think I come up with this because it's got a lotterize for him at least, but they are. Never mind. I'm just saying that I think maybe it's easier to come up with pirate names that are fun and that stick than maybe, you know. Yeah.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker B: We talked about Jim's mom running an inn after they find the map. Dr. Doppler slash Trelawney in the book is immediately like, I will finance this treasure hunt.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:17:22
  Speaker B: Dr. Doppler and Trelawney are also blabbermouths. That character trait came from the book. There's an exchange. The Doctor says, like, they're planning this mission, this treasure hunt. And the doctor says, there's only one man I'm afraid of. And Squire Trelawney's like, and who's that name? The dog, sir. And he says, you, for you cannot hold your tongue. Which proves to be true. He blabs to everybody about the treasure, and that's how they end up with a crew full of pirates.
• 1:17:54
  Speaker A: Oh, there you go.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker B: The captain also does not like the crew that was hired for the voyage.
• 1:18:01
  Speaker A: I'm not on board with these guys.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker B: Not on board with these guys. They seem like pirates.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 1:18:07
  Speaker B: Jim overhears the mutiny plan while he's hiding in a fruit barrel. The captain does get wounded in a skirmish with the pirates.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker A: Is he killed? No, he survives.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker B: He survives like Amelia. Yeah. And Jim does end up on the treasure hunt as a captive of the pirates.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker A: There you go. And all the other things we talked about.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, and all the others.
• 1:18:30
  Speaker A: Cool. All right. We got a handful of odds and ends before the final verdict. The very first scene in the movie is little Jim, baby Jim, reading the bedtime story, and his mom comes in, and I was like, is. His mom is just Jane from Tarzan. Pretty much like, she looks exactly like Jane from Tarzan.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker B: I have the same thought. She's. She's Jane. In a very slightly different animation style.
• 1:19:09
  Speaker A: Yeah, it was very similar, though, which is. Disney pretty famously reuses it.
• 1:19:15
  Speaker B: They tend to like every archetype. Yeah, they pick a female character, model archetype, like you said, and they just, like, do that for the next 10 years.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker A: Tweak it slightly. Yeah, I feel like they've gotten better about that lately. I think that was probably more of an issue with the time it took to do animation and stuff, so just reusing things they know work. Whereas now it's a little easier to do derivative or not derivative to do original characters without it being as much of a thing. And it's just. I don't think audiences would put up with it as much anymore as they would have back in the day, where it's like, yeah, all these characters look the same, I thought, and I mentioned it earlier. But when we see Treasure Planet, the fact that it is a. A planet with rings and it's two sets of rings that are in an X was very, very fun.
• 1:20:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, I thought that was fun.
• 1:20:08
  Speaker A: I mean, X marks the spot. It's great. There's this great exchange where I don't remember who they're talking.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker B: The robot cops.
• 1:20:19
  Speaker A: Yes. I think it's one of the robot cops. They're talking to him and they ask. Somebody arrives, oh, they're bringing, they're bringing Jim back from after he got in trouble. And they're like, they're talking to Sarah Hawkins and they ask. And Dr. Delbert is there and they ask the cops ask Sarah if Dr. Delbert is Jim's father. And she says, ew. And the look Dr. Doppler gives gives her in that moment, he's so hurt by it, which is fair.
• 1:20:50
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:20:51
  Speaker A: It's one thing to be like, oh, no, no. But she's like, ew. He's like, hey, what's your problem? I thought it was very funny, though.
• 1:21:01
  Speaker B: I thought that making Long John Silver a cyborg is a really fun, appropriate, sci fi way to update his character.
• 1:21:10
  Speaker A: It feels very obvious, but it makes perfect sense. Yeah, totally works. Absolutely. I could have done without the fart creature.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker B: Same.
• 1:21:18
  Speaker A: Look, I, it's whatever. And I'm sure kids loved it. Like, it's one of those things that's like, this is there for kids to be like fart monsters.
• 1:21:26
  Speaker B: This is there for the five year olds in the audience.
• 1:21:28
  Speaker A: And that's fine. I get it. But I could have done it, or at least with a little less of the fart monster, because we get like it three times and I'm like, all right. After the first one, I, I got it. I'm good. Don't need another scene where the fart monster fart parts more. But okay. It's, it's just, it's whatever. I thought it was really cool that they say, like, unfurl the solar sails because their ships all run on solar sails. And solar sails are a real thing, which I don't know if people know this, but like, not remotely in the way the movie depicts it. But that is a legit concept that we could, and I, I think maybe have used, we've at least tested it, that you can on spaceships that if you want to go a long distance in space with very energy efficiently, you can get a giant solar sail that basically you put up and the sun hits it. And the energy of the sun hitting it and bouncing off of it imparts a very, very, very tiny amount of momentum to the sail and which makes the satellite or whatever you're using. It wouldn't be a satellite, but the, the spaceship you're, you're moving move very slowly, but it's constant acceleration. And because there's no gravity or anything in space and it's a vacuum, that very, very tiny amount of acceleration over time because there's nothing Slowing down the spaceship will get it up to incredibly fast speeds eventually. So yeah, you can literally have sails that are pushed by sun and they're called solar sails. Real thing. I thought that was cool.
• 1:23:02
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker A: Again, not remotely like how they are in the movie where they're catching wind basically in the movie, it seems, but. But it's a similar idea.
• 1:23:10
  Speaker B: So we already mentioned. I have reviewer written down here, but apparently I was wrong about that.
• 1:23:14
  Speaker A: I believe it was a screenwriter, the.
• 1:23:16
  Speaker B: Screenwriter who talked about Jim being aged up and did not like that. But I'm not sure that he's even all that aged up.
• 1:23:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I would agree.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker B: From what it sounds like the Disney Wiki puts movie Jim at 15.
• 1:23:30
  Speaker A: Yeah, that would have been my guess, like 15, 16.
• 1:23:32
  Speaker B: Now the book doesn't specify his age. Supposedly there is an earlier draft of the novel that does put him at 14.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker A: So basically the same age almost. Yeah.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker B: I will grant that he does read a little younger. I read him as maybe in the 10 to 12 range. But overall I just think this is a kind of strange thing to take umbrage with.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker A: I would agree.
• 1:23:57
  Speaker B: Especially because aging him up, I think made his character more interesting.
• 1:24:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, well, it made it more interesting for us, to be fair. The explicit point. Point that the person made in the. I can just read it because I can find it. The explicit point they're making, which I still don't agree with now having watched the movie. Well, I say that I didn't read the book, but having watched the movie, I do not agree with the point. The point that the. And I believe it was the guy who wrote on the original draft of the screenplay. Yeah, Terry Rossio, who worked on the script at one point had criticisms of this choice quote, Treasure Island. The book is a boys adventure about a young cabin boy who matches wits with a crew of bloodthirsty pirates. All of the key scenes are made more dramatic by the fact that it's a young kid who is in danger. Treasure Planet made the kid into a young man, which dilutes the drama of all the situations, start to finish. Instead of being an amazing and impressive kid, he became a petulant, unimpressive teen. And I just don't agree with that.
• 1:24:55
  Speaker B: Yeah, I just, I don't agree with that at all.
• 1:24:57
  Speaker A: Like, I don't think he seemed petulant or unimpressive in the movie.
• 1:25:01
  Speaker B: I mean, petulant at the beginning maybe.
• 1:25:03
  Speaker A: Sure, a little bit maybe, but not.
• 1:25:05
  Speaker B: Not unimpressive.
• 1:25:06
  Speaker A: Yeah. And to me, your descriptions of the scenes in the book. And now again, I didn't read it, but like the scene where he defeats that one pirate on the ship is like hijinks nonsense where he lucks into defeating him in a way that's like, oh, okay, is that impressive? Is it?
• 1:25:22
  Speaker B: I don't know, it's like, it's fun.
• 1:25:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's like.
• 1:25:25
  Speaker B: And I, I could imagine being like, you know, being like a 10 year old old boy and like reading it and being like woohoo. But yeah, I, I don't think it would have made for us particularly compelling film character.
• 1:25:39
  Speaker A: And yeah, it just allows you to do more emotionally with the character in the movie in certain ways. And I just, I don't, I don't think it changes the stakes all that much because it's not like he's like a, he's not like he's a grizzled 25 year old who like has seen shit. Yeah, he's still, still completely out of his.
• 1:25:55
  Speaker B: Significantly younger than all of the rest.
• 1:25:58
  Speaker A: Of these pirates and this is his first time going out in the world. He's way out of his depth still. Yeah, he's 15 instead of 10. But it's not that it's still completely outmatched and has to, you know. Yeah, I just. Yeah, I don't agree with that.
• 1:26:12
  Speaker B: Strange thing to get upset about.
• 1:26:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. The movie has a montage and it's the montage where we get the backstory of Jim and his dad leaving. And this is also the montage where we see Jim and. And John Silver like getting close and their relationship forming and John Silver teaching him the ropes. But it is all set to the one, the one or two. I think there was two original songs created for this movie and this is the main one though. And I don't remember what it's called, but it's sung by the lead singer of the Goo Goo Dolls and it is peak 2002 anthem rock. Like it's fantastic. I thought all of the space backgrounds, it's a very pretty movie generally, but I thought the space backgrounds were super gorgeous and cool. Like every time we see cool like the black hole and the supernova and some other times where we just see like nebula and space stuff is all very neat and just generally had some really cool visual moments that I thought were fun. My last note, which we have to mention, I don't know how this hasn't become a meme. Probably because nobody cares about this movie and has watched it, but so Captain Amelia. Oh, and I had a note earlier, I guess I did it get moved Somewhere.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker B: No, I think you just skipped. I thought you meant to skip over it.
• 1:27:35
  Speaker A: I mentioned earlier. Well, I skipped it because I only read the first part and I mentioned this earlier, that they gender swapped Captain Smollett into a lady in this Captain Amelia. And my other note was, oh, the weird pirate cat lady is hot. Surely that's not gonna awaken anything. But they take it a step, step further. Yeah. Later in the movie, you've talked about how you didn't care much for the relationship between. That just didn't.
• 1:27:59
  Speaker B: It felt underbut didn't do anything for me.
• 1:28:01
  Speaker A: The relationship. Captain Amelia and Dr.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker B: Doppler.
• 1:28:06
  Speaker A: Doppler. It's because his name's Dr. Delbert Doppler. So it's a tongue twister. I always forget what his name is. Dr. Doppler. He. They start falling for each other and she's injured at this point. This is like towards the end of the movie, she's injured. They're down on Treasure Planet, like hiding out in that thing. Thing. And he tells them something that they're gonna. He's like, Dr. Doppler kind of takes control and like, tells them to do something. And she's laying there injured and she. They've already kind of had a few moments together where they. You could tell they're canoodling or whatever, and he like, gives this order to Jim or somebody else, and she. She turns and looks at him and says, very forceful doctor, go on, say something else. And I was like, this movie really just had Captain Amelia get all subby on, like out of nowhere. I was like, that's a choice. How has this not been memed more? I literally looked it up.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker B: They. They had her top from the bottom.
• 1:29:04
  Speaker A: I know. I saw one tik tok about it. That was just this clip of somebody posted it. It had like a hundred likes and like one comment. It's like just nobody, apparently. I just thought it was very funny that she's. Yeah. That they threw that in there. It's like that. That's all right. I was not expecting that.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker B: My last note is that I absolutely do not believe that Long John Silver would abandon the treasure to save Jim. But it is a nice ending nonetheless.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. As always, you can do us a favor by heading over to Facebook, Instagram, threads, Goodreads, Blue sky, any of those places interact. We'd love to hear what you have to say about Treasure Planet. What are your feelings on Captain Amelia and. And is she a power Bottom? What are we. Is she a bratty sub or what? What is going on here? What's. What's Captain Amelia's deal? I. There's gotta be. Again, I don't think this movie is popular enough, but there's gotta be some crazy cosplay out there for Captain Amelia with those boots. Are you kidding me? Anyways, yeah. What are your feelings on Captain Amelia and the rest of this movie? Please let us know. We'd love to hear it. We'll talk about them on the next prequel episode. You help us out by heading over to Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Wherever you listen to our show, drop us a five star rating, write us a nice little review and you can Support us@patreon.com this FilmIsLit get access to bonus content. Every month we put out a bonus episode at the $5 a month level. We just released our episode. We are caught back up finally. And we just released our episode on Crybaby, which was August's bonus episode. Really fun discussion. If you have not read or. Sorry, read. If you have not watched Crybaby, recommend it. Go check it out. It's a John Waters movie, but we dove into it and discussed what a fascinating film that is. It was both of our. I think, because you've never seen another John Waters movie, have you? So, yeah, it's our first. You had seen the movie years ago. This is my first time seeing it and it was my first John Waters movie and your only John Waters movie. And yeah, very fascinating. So go check out that discussion. Katie, what are we doing next month for the bonus episode?
• 1:31:19
  Speaker B: We're doing. We're doing the runner up. The runner up from. Because we asked the people to choose for this episode between Treasure Planet and Muppet Treasure island. And Treasure Planet won by a singular vote.
• 1:31:32
  Speaker A: Yes. And because it was so close, we'll make that announcement here. And I might put this at the beginning. We'll see. But because it was so close, we'll announce it on social media. So anybody who didn't, if you skipped over our plugs part here at the end, we will be releasing the Muppet Treasure island episode on just for everybody. Because it was so close. For people that were disappointed, I was like, let's just put it out for everybody. That way, people who voted and really wanted to hear us talk about Muppet Treasure island will still get to hear it for sure. Just for this one. So look out for that next month. I think that's it. Until that. What am I talking about? Katie, it's time for the final verdict. I forgot. Final verdict. Go.
• 1:32:14
  Speaker B: Sentence passed. Verdict after that's stupid. I really enjoyed this movie. I want to amend a previous statement. I don't think I had ever seen it. I must have been thinking of something else, but I'm glad that I have now. I thought that moving the story from the high seas to outer space allowed for some truly creative world building and story decisions. I particularly enjoyed the steampunk esque mixture of future tech and historical inspiration, the fleshing out of Jim's character, and the addition of the father son dynamic between Jim and Long John Silver. While there were some elements that were a little under baked and or grating looking at you Ben hey, that's Martin Short.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker A: How dare you.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker B: He was a little little Martin Short.
• 1:33:05
  Speaker A: Being annoying in a movie. Never. I like Martin Short, but boy he can. Some of his characters can be a little annoying.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker B: So there were some elements that were a little under baked and or grading. I truly feel that Treasure Planet is a worthy update to a classic text. However, Treasure island is, as we discussed in the prequel, the pirate media urtext. Without it, we don't have Pirates of the Caribbean or Our flag means death or Captain Hook or countless other swashbuckling, morally gray adventure stories. And I think I would be remiss to not acknowledge that. So while I think Treasure Planet is well worth your time, I have to give it to the book this time. Drink up Me Hearty's Yoho Yo Ho.
• 1:33:58
  Speaker A: Just to chime in real quick because I never I didn't give my feel. I thought the movie was really good. Good. I enjoyed it a lot. I I think it maybe missed. I think it was maybe not as funny as I was hoping it would be. Like yeah, I think it didn't hit have quite as many like humorous high points as you would expect from a Disney movie. Kind of from this era of like comparing it to something like Emperor's New Groove or something like that. It's not nearly as fun or even.
• 1:34:24
  Speaker B: Even Lilo and Stitch.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker A: Even Lilo and Stitch like movies from this similar era right around 2000 and it's not as funny as those, but it is really gorgeous. It's a very fun adaptation of Treasure Island. Super fun, piratey stuff. Clever in lots of ways. And yeah, I thought it was a lot of fun. I thought it was a nice enjoyable movie. Just not like anything super super memorable in terms of plot I guess. I don't know, it's hard to explain, but I really liked it. I thought it was really fun. Anyways Katie, what's next?
• 1:34:58
  Speaker B: Up next we are going to talk about a classic from my teenage years and maybe yours as well. No, no, you didn't have. You didn't have to read this. This is it. We're talking about the Outsiders. I loved this book. We could say I was obsessed with this book in the seventh grade. So we're gonna talk about that and the 1983 film. Come back. Come back for that.
• 1:35:33
  Speaker A: Can't wait. I will say this. I'm so glad we're finally doing this because not only have. This is not for my, you know, high school or what, I never read this book, never seen the film. Beyond that, I legitimately have no idea what this is about. You could tell me. I have no idea what the point or what the plot of the outside. Like, I. I have no idea. Like none at all. I just couldn't even begin to tell you what I thought it was about.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker B: So come back in two weeks time to hear Brian learn about the Outsiders.
• 1:36:05
  Speaker A: Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else keep reading books, keep watching movies and keep being awesome. Sam.