Latest / District Territory / It’s time for the Washington Nationals to pay a closer

Transcript

It’s time for the Washington Nationals to pay a closer · District Territory

0:05
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the District Territory Podcast. Happy Monday to
0:09
Speaker 1: all our listeners and viewers. I'm Eric Shellhouse from Bat
0:11
Speaker 1: Boys Baseball and joining me today, Kevin Franzen, color commentary
0:15
Speaker 1: and former player for the Washington Nationals and Spencer Nussbaum
0:18
Speaker 1: of The Athletic. This is a busy weekend for the Nationals,
0:21
Speaker 1: some highs and some lows, but let's start with yesterday.
0:24
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful box score through the first eight
0:26
Speaker 1: innings pitching wise. Andrew Alvarez had a phenomenal outing, but
0:30
Speaker 1: once again, the ninth inning came around to bite the Nationals.
0:33
Speaker 1: Their 35th lone save of the season thus far uh
0:37
Speaker 1: the ninth inning is different in the big leagues that's
0:39
Speaker 1: what blake said in the post game uh and that's
0:42
Speaker 1: the message that he has continued to push but the
0:44
Speaker 1: ninth inning has just been tricky all season long guys
0:48
Speaker 1: um it's a tough one to swallow yesterday but.
0:51
Speaker 2: Yeah i'll start off we let's let's not let's not
0:54
Speaker 2: sugarcoat i mean we're trying to play this thing around
0:56
Speaker 2: it was it's bs it's it's not even about the
0:59
Speaker 2: ninth it's about stuff that led up to that that
1:02
Speaker 2: That allowed this game to stay close. I mean, it's Beavis,
1:06
Speaker 2: you know, ground ball to third base, and it's not
1:09
Speaker 2: a contact play, and you get tagged out, and it's
1:11
Speaker 2: not one that was like a rocket. And that play
1:17
Speaker 2: ends up being crucial.
1:17
Speaker 3: Because then you get a single.
1:19
Speaker 2: Whoever knows what happens after, but you get a single,
1:21
Speaker 2: a double, and it's only one run in that whole thing.
1:23
Speaker 2: You get a base loaded one out, double play ball
1:25
Speaker 2: to second base. That's... the craziest part about it is
1:29
Speaker 2: how well and perfectly executed it was. Nunez ran a four,
1:33
Speaker 2: two down to first. He was over 30 and a
1:35
Speaker 2: half feet per second on the run. And it's unfortunate,
1:39
Speaker 2: but it's like, those are the situations that lead to
1:41
Speaker 2: these every time. And they got, they have not played
1:46
Speaker 2: well and done well with the runners. We know that,
1:50
Speaker 2: but it's, it's the layups. Like they talk about the
1:52
Speaker 2: layups on the pitching side. Well, there's the layups on the, the,
1:55
Speaker 2: the hitting side, which is, You know, put the ball play,
1:58
Speaker 2: put the ball play hard, but get the ball in
1:59
Speaker 2: the air.
2:00
Speaker 3: Some of they've done so well all year. Get the
2:03
Speaker 3: ball in the air.
2:05
Speaker 2: And runner at third, fewers in two has been a
2:07
Speaker 2: problem of late. And that to me is the bigger
2:10
Speaker 2: issue because they've used the bullpen. This is another, you know,
2:14
Speaker 2: 16 games in 16 days. They've utilized the bullpen where
2:19
Speaker 2: they had to. They went to Clayton Beater early yesterday.
2:23
Speaker 2: He gave him two innings, which was incredible. But then
2:26
Speaker 2: after that, there's your runs that were needed for that,
2:30
Speaker 2: you know, for your ability to expand that lead and, and,
2:35
Speaker 2: and do that. So before the ninth inning, it's, it's
2:39
Speaker 2: more than that. We got to get deeper into that
2:40
Speaker 2: because that's the part.
2:43
Speaker 3: Yeah.
2:43
Speaker 4: That's interesting. Cause in my mind, I still, I don't
2:46
Speaker 4: want to say I push back on that, but like,
2:48
Speaker 4: because of the way it all plays out, I think
2:50
Speaker 4: naturally we're inclined to look at the ninth inning.
2:53
Speaker 3: No, I'm not. I think we'll get to that. Yeah, no,
2:56
Speaker 3: but I'm not. I'm talking about it in the moment.
2:58
Speaker 2: I was on the game calling that game saying, these
3:01
Speaker 2: are the biggest moments. These are the things that teams and, and, and,
3:05
Speaker 2: you know, departments look at and they're like, man, whatever.
3:09
Speaker 3: We got to get the ninth inning. We got these.
3:11
Speaker 3: I don't care.
3:11
Speaker 2: There's certain things that you could relieve your relievers. By
3:15
Speaker 2: giving them a bigger lead in those situations, a two-run
3:18
Speaker 2: lead should be a layup in the big leagues at times. Right.
3:22
Speaker 3: Not against the Marlins right now, based on this.
3:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, ultimately, the point I want to get to, right,
3:27
Speaker 4: is part of the reason why the Nationals have blown
3:29
Speaker 4: so many leads is they've been in position to blow
3:32
Speaker 4: so many leads and blown so many saves, in particular, right?
3:35
Speaker 4: You mentioned that play with Vivas. There have been innumerable
3:40
Speaker 4: times this year, right, where I think you start to
3:44
Speaker 4: get the feeling in the fifth inning when they don't
3:47
Speaker 4: come through with runners in scoring position or the third
3:49
Speaker 4: inning where they, you know, boot a ball that they
3:53
Speaker 4: should make or there's a base running mistake in the
3:56
Speaker 4: first inning, right? And you go, this feels like the
3:58
Speaker 4: sort of game the Nationals lose, right? And it's... Is
4:01
Speaker 4: it fair? Who knows. But I think that, I mean,
4:05
Speaker 4: anyone who would tell you that they don't get that
4:06
Speaker 4: feeling if they've watched every Nationals game this year, close
4:10
Speaker 4: to every Nationals game this year, would be lying to you, right? Because...
4:14
Speaker 4: I think you look at this team and fundamentally it
4:16
Speaker 4: is more sound than it was in years past. I
4:18
Speaker 4: don't think we can mistake that. But it still has
4:21
Speaker 4: a long, long way to go on that front. And
4:25
Speaker 4: that's why you see them in all these close games.
4:28
Speaker 4: I can't remember the last time I checked. It was
4:30
Speaker 4: maybe a few weeks ago. But I often like to
4:33
Speaker 4: look at the average leverage index, which is basically a
4:37
Speaker 4: fancy number that says how often are these teams playing
4:40
Speaker 4: close games, playing meaningful innings, putting their pitchers and their
4:43
Speaker 4: hitters in tight spots. And the Nationals have been number
4:46
Speaker 4: one for basically the entire season. They have a good
4:49
Speaker 4: run differential. They have made strides this season. But they
4:52
Speaker 4: have made, again, just so many mistakes that keep these
4:55
Speaker 4: games closer than they should be.
4:59
Speaker 1: It just is a tough one to swallow yesterday. And
5:03
Speaker 1: you really hope that they can get the split yesterday.
5:06
Speaker 1: It was exciting yesterday, though, to finally see C.J. Abrams
5:09
Speaker 1: over at second base. We want to move into that conversation. Franny,
5:13
Speaker 1: he did go 0 for 4 at the plate with
5:15
Speaker 1: a hat trick. I'm wondering, curious, like your first day
5:17
Speaker 1: out there in the field, is there anything mentally going
5:20
Speaker 1: on as a player? Like, oh, I really want to
5:22
Speaker 1: make sure I get the fielding right today. Does it
5:24
Speaker 1: take back from the hitting at all? Or is that
5:27
Speaker 1: I'm looking at a one game sample size and I'm delusional?
5:31
Speaker 3: You're delusional. You got to go out and compete. It's
5:34
Speaker 3: the big leagues.
5:35
Speaker 2: And I think they've given him plenty of time, and
5:37
Speaker 2: I think that the move yesterday was one that you
5:44
Speaker 2: look at and you go, okay, here you go, just
5:46
Speaker 2: go play.
5:46
Speaker 3: And I think that's the thing. I think the offense
5:49
Speaker 3: has been struggling well before that.
5:50
Speaker 2: So anything that doesn't go right offensively for him, he's
5:56
Speaker 2: just in swing mode right now. That's the bigger issue, right?
6:01
Speaker 2: He also doesn't have the protection that he's used to
6:03
Speaker 2: all year. where he's cleaned up everybody because he's been patient.
6:08
Speaker 2: He's been, you know, doing damage in the heart of
6:11
Speaker 2: the plate. And right now there's a lot more swings
6:13
Speaker 2: in zone swing and miss for him. So is that
6:17
Speaker 2: based on positional change? No, no, it doesn't affect.
6:20
Speaker 3: You that much.
6:21
Speaker 2: He played, you know, two plays that he got yesterday
6:24
Speaker 2: were phenomenal. Just a crazy, you know, knuckleball, you know,
6:30
Speaker 2: soft liner that, that, you know, kind of, changed directions
6:33
Speaker 2: on him that he was able to recover uh i
6:36
Speaker 2: thought was fantastic his turn was great he and uh
6:39
Speaker 2: nunez turned a great uh six four three so yeah
6:42
Speaker 2: as we as we continue on it should be you
6:44
Speaker 2: know it should be less of a conversation because i
6:47
Speaker 2: just think that he's gonna be good there he's gonna
6:49
Speaker 2: be really good.
6:51
Speaker 4: Yeah um and franny and i were actually texting about
6:54
Speaker 4: this a little bit last night and i planned to
6:56
Speaker 4: either write a story or do some sort of like
6:57
Speaker 4: video on it um but to me, part of what
7:00
Speaker 4: compels me down the stretch is what the nationals can
7:02
Speaker 4: actually learn in like this 23 game sample or whatever
7:06
Speaker 4: they have left.
7:07
Speaker 2: Right.
7:08
Speaker 4: Um, because generally speaking, teams like to see 50 games
7:12
Speaker 4: of a guy at a position or, you know, even
7:15
Speaker 4: more than that, frankly, um, to decide whether or not
7:18
Speaker 4: a guy is good there, but there's still things that
7:20
Speaker 4: we can talk about that they can read into.
7:22
Speaker 2: Right.
7:22
Speaker 4: Um, I won't steal these points because like for any,
7:25
Speaker 4: I think you can probably speak to them a little
7:27
Speaker 4: bit better. Um, But I do think the overarching thought
7:30
Speaker 4: here is how strong CJ can be on some of
7:34
Speaker 4: these plays as opposed to some of the mistakes that
7:38
Speaker 4: he might naturally make learning a new position. But I think, Franny,
7:40
Speaker 4: you can probably speak to that a little bit better
7:41
Speaker 4: than I can.
7:43
Speaker 2: Well, I think the biggest thing that we're going to
7:45
Speaker 2: look at with CJ at Sega Base are touch plays.
7:51
Speaker 2: Balls getting closer to the bag and the feeds and
7:54
Speaker 2: the how your body positions.
7:56
Speaker 3: Think about more double play balls.
7:57
Speaker 2: I think The turns, he's done before, right, because he's
8:01
Speaker 2: played in the shift, so he knows how the turns
8:03
Speaker 2: are going to happen. I think there's going to be
8:05
Speaker 2: more plays to his left that he's going to have
8:08
Speaker 2: to make that. It's not him making the decision, but
8:10
Speaker 2: the first baseman making the decision. Is he going after
8:12
Speaker 2: the ball as well? CJ's going to have to hit
8:15
Speaker 2: the pitcher on the run, miss inside, do those type things.
8:19
Speaker 2: I think that when you look at can his feet
8:23
Speaker 2: get around and do all that?
8:24
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes. Check everything on that. The other part, too,
8:28
Speaker 3: is coming in.
8:29
Speaker 2: He's been one of the worst shortstops in the game
8:31
Speaker 2: coming in on balls.
8:33
Speaker 3: Every number in your eyes tell you that. It's a
8:36
Speaker 3: shorter throw.
8:36
Speaker 2: It's a shorter read when it comes to coming over
8:41
Speaker 2: and flipping the ball, coming over, glove flip, getting underneath
8:44
Speaker 2: it and firing from low.
8:48
Speaker 3: I think there are more.
8:49
Speaker 2: Positives they can deem from this month than they can
8:53
Speaker 2: the negatives. The negatives might be more than anything, just experience. Playing,
8:59
Speaker 2: getting the... Like, in that stretch where he got... After
9:02
Speaker 2: he got hurt with the... With the sprained ankle, I
9:06
Speaker 2: would have said there was probably like 15 balls to
9:10
Speaker 2: second base that were moments that would be great experiences
9:13
Speaker 2: for him. You know, and obviously, you know, it was
9:17
Speaker 2: unfortunate that he got hurt, so... But those are the
9:20
Speaker 2: ones that you can't always... You can't replicate in practice.
9:23
Speaker 2: You cannot set it up in a simulation... it's more
9:27
Speaker 2: reactionary in how you read it. So I think that's
9:30
Speaker 2: the part.
9:32
Speaker 4: Yeah, and just to bemoan one of those points just
9:34
Speaker 4: a little bit more, because I think it's illuminating potentially
9:37
Speaker 4: for fans or listeners. CJ's been worth negative 17 outs
9:42
Speaker 4: above average this season. Negative 16 of those have come
9:46
Speaker 4: on balls where he has to come in on the ball, right?
9:50
Speaker 4: And so for me, when I look at plays at
9:52
Speaker 4: second base where A, you're more likely to be, again,
9:54
Speaker 4: moving laterally, And B, just again, those throws are easier
9:58
Speaker 4: to make. that is the credence to say, hey, maybe
10:02
Speaker 4: down the stretch we could see C.J. look more naturally
10:07
Speaker 4: or more talented at a second base spot than we've
10:10
Speaker 4: seen him over at shortstop.
10:13
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:14
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break. When we come back, Luis
10:16
Speaker 1: Perales is coming back to the big leagues. Spencer, you
10:18
Speaker 1: put out a story about some off-season signings. A lot
10:20
Speaker 1: more to get to in the next half.
10:23
Speaker 5: Look, it's summertime. It's cool in the morning, hot during
10:26
Speaker 5: the day, cool again at night. Rarely am I sitting
10:29
Speaker 5: there going, oh, I'm just going to do one thing
10:31
Speaker 5: at a time. I'm bouncing from work. I'm bouncing in
10:34
Speaker 5: the yard. I'm running to a game. Fabletics has got
10:38
Speaker 5: me with price, comfort, and versatility with all the gear
10:43
Speaker 5: that I'm getting from them.
10:44
Speaker 6: Yeah. We're talking about premium active wear you'd expect from
10:47
Speaker 6: higher end brands, but without the price tag, lightweight, breathable, comfortable,
10:52
Speaker 6: built to actually last. And if you're going to Fabletics,
10:56
Speaker 6: you should be joining as a VIP, which completely changes
10:59
Speaker 6: the game. You can shop now at fabletics.com slash foul
11:03
Speaker 6: to get 70 to 80% off everything. When you sign
11:07
Speaker 6: up as a new VIP, take a quick style quiz
11:09
Speaker 6: and be sure to select foul when prompted to unlock
11:12
Speaker 6: this offer. This is a limited time offer, so don't wait. Again,
11:15
Speaker 6: that's fabletics.com slash F-O-U-L for 70 to 80% off everything
11:21
Speaker 6: as a new VIP.
11:23
Speaker 1: Really quickly, don't forget to subscribe to the District Territory
11:26
Speaker 1: Podcast on YouTube, Spotify, Apple Music, wherever you're listening. You
11:30
Speaker 1: don't want to miss a single episode. You don't want
11:32
Speaker 1: to miss giveaways down the line into the offseason. Spencer,
11:35
Speaker 1: you put out a story the other day saying the
11:37
Speaker 1: Nationals need to disregard what team's often do at this
11:40
Speaker 1: stage of the competitive cycle. Kind of just give our
11:43
Speaker 1: listeners and viewers a preview of that story and what
11:47
Speaker 1: you discussed there, why the Nationals need to spend on
11:50
Speaker 1: some relief pitching this offseason. Why now is the time?
11:53
Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm going to do what I always do
11:55
Speaker 4: in these spots and offer some caveats before I get
11:57
Speaker 4: into the main point. So my apologies for what I'm
12:00
Speaker 4: about to say. The Nationals have more interesting bullpen arms
12:03
Speaker 4: than they did at the start of the season. I
12:05
Speaker 4: think that is fundamentally true. I think that, again, teams
12:10
Speaker 4: who are projected to be under 500, again, generally don't
12:16
Speaker 4: spend big on the bullpen. That's generally the last piece
12:19
Speaker 4: that you add. I also think you look at this roster.
12:22
Speaker 4: You look at what is available this offseason, the quantity
12:27
Speaker 4: of quality relievers who are available. You look at what
12:30
Speaker 4: the payroll is expected to be heading into the next season.
12:34
Speaker 4: And you look at what the Nationals have. in their system.
12:37
Speaker 4: And you say, why on earth would you not go
12:39
Speaker 4: out and pay a reliever?
12:41
Speaker 3: Right.
12:42
Speaker 4: I think for me, and it's, it's tough. There's this
12:44
Speaker 4: fan George Lewis on Twitter who always kind of tweets
12:48
Speaker 4: out exactly what I'm thinking, but he put out a
12:50
Speaker 4: really smart thought the other day, which is within the
12:53
Speaker 4: national system, you have basically three through eight in the
12:57
Speaker 4: bullpen somewhere in there, right? You, you have these medium
13:01
Speaker 4: to medium, low leverage guys who are really compelling, whether
13:05
Speaker 4: it's in, Eric Tolman or Clayton Beater and Orlando Rebalta,
13:10
Speaker 4: guys who absolutely can pitch in the big leagues. You
13:12
Speaker 4: have more arms in the minor leagues who probably can
13:15
Speaker 4: figure it out. But do you have that guy in
13:17
Speaker 4: the ninth inning? Probably not.
13:18
Speaker 3: Right.
13:19
Speaker 4: I even asked Blake Butera something along these lines yesterday
13:22
Speaker 4: where I said, do you start to think about adding
13:25
Speaker 4: high leverage, you know, arms this offseason? And he said,
13:28
Speaker 4: that's not my job, but also no doubt.
13:31
Speaker 2: Right.
13:32
Speaker 4: I think when you put all those factors together, it's
13:38
Speaker 4: so hard for me to look at what the Nationals
13:41
Speaker 4: are and frankly what they could be next season, even
13:43
Speaker 4: if there's some offensive aggression and say, why on earth
13:46
Speaker 4: would you not add a closer late in games?
13:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, Franny, it's not your job to play GM here,
13:53
Speaker 1: but as Spencer just spoke, there's a quantity, I feel like,
13:56
Speaker 1: a large, a large surplus kind of coming off the
13:59
Speaker 1: books here compared to me like previous off seasons. My
14:02
Speaker 1: friend keeps saying, hey, the Nationals to sign Mason Miller.
14:06
Speaker 1: Is there reason to believe like the Nationals would go
14:08
Speaker 1: out and get top relief pitching like that?
14:11
Speaker 2: Well, Mason Miller's got team protection for a while. So
14:14
Speaker 2: I'm like, we're not going to get him to Miller. Uh, no,
14:17
Speaker 2: but see, I think there's a, there's a lot that
14:19
Speaker 2: can be said to that. And I, I love Spencer
14:22
Speaker 2: breaks down more than most. And let's be honest here.
14:26
Speaker 2: He digs deeper, uh, the most. So, uh, when it
14:29
Speaker 2: comes down to this, I agree wholeheartedly with, because the
14:35
Speaker 2: other aspect we, you know, I'll speak from the player's
14:38
Speaker 2: perspective of this, um, When you're a young team, and
14:43
Speaker 2: let alone the youngest team, if not, what, second youngest
14:45
Speaker 2: team in the big leagues right now, it has to
14:47
Speaker 2: be youngest because your manager at 34 is older than
14:50
Speaker 2: everybody on the roster now.
14:53
Speaker 3: You need to get your wins. Wins need to stay wins.
14:59
Speaker 2: And we've seen the effect that it's had on the
15:02
Speaker 2: play already this year at times. Now, it hasn't affected them,
15:05
Speaker 2: and there's no figure-pointing and doing all that.
15:08
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about that. I'm just saying....
15:11
Speaker 2: There is an overall letdown, it seems like, that happens
15:16
Speaker 2: way too often post these blown saves, like late-game blown saves.
15:24
Speaker 2: We've seen the Nationals give up 117 runs.
15:27
Speaker 3: In the 8th and 9th inning at home. 117 runs
15:32
Speaker 3: in the 8th and 9th inning at home.
15:35
Speaker 2: I want to say we've seen maybe three hits after
15:39
Speaker 2: some of these big blown, you know, like you, you
15:41
Speaker 2: look at the Phillies three games, you look at the Yankees,
15:45
Speaker 2: you look at, you know, you could go on and
15:47
Speaker 2: on all the other ones here at home, but, uh,
15:50
Speaker 2: let's take yesterday and you get, I think it's three
15:52
Speaker 2: total hits after that on the offensive side, it's discouraging.
15:56
Speaker 2: You know, you do a lot, you do enough. Um,
15:59
Speaker 2: you know, yesterday, not enough, obviously, because it was too close. Um,
16:05
Speaker 2: but wins need to stay wins. And so if they,
16:07
Speaker 2: they have to spend, they have to spend, but I
16:09
Speaker 2: don't know who, I don't want to sit there and
16:12
Speaker 2: say what they need to do. Um, they got a,
16:16
Speaker 2: you know, a ton of infield prospects that, you know, I,
16:21
Speaker 2: you could say they have a, uh, a surplus in,
16:24
Speaker 2: but they're so far away that I feel like you
16:27
Speaker 2: can't give up on them too early.
16:29
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?
16:30
Speaker 2: Like as far as like letting it play out and
16:32
Speaker 2: see what you truly have, you know, it, if the
16:35
Speaker 2: guys aren't in double a yet, you know, they're in
16:37
Speaker 2: a ball, do you give it another year? That's the
16:39
Speaker 2: problem that you have to decide, like how good you
16:42
Speaker 2: are internally, as far as your, your, your, you know,
16:48
Speaker 2: self scouting, how, how well do you self scout? You know,
16:51
Speaker 2: that's gotta be a big issue on this because you
16:54
Speaker 2: got it. You're going to have to take from that surplus.
16:56
Speaker 2: If you're going to have to trade for something, if
16:57
Speaker 2: you have to go out and sign a, a free agent, there's,
17:00
Speaker 2: I'm sure there's a few out there that, that'll intrigue
17:03
Speaker 2: all of us, but, At the end of the day,
17:04
Speaker 2: they just got to figure it out. They got to
17:06
Speaker 2: figure out the ninth inning. It's been a problem. It's
17:09
Speaker 2: going to continue to be a problem this year. And
17:11
Speaker 2: it's unfortunate.
17:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
17:16
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:16
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get it out there. The Mason
17:19
Speaker 1: Miller thing is not happening. To my friend Mo, who
17:21
Speaker 1: always keeps saying bring that up on the podcast, that's
17:24
Speaker 1: not happening. They don't want to get rid of Mason Miller.
17:26
Speaker 1: He's an incredible reliever. Yes, the Nationals need relief pitching help.
17:30
Speaker 1: They're getting some more support. Luis Perales recalled to the
17:33
Speaker 1: major leagues and that's number 12 prospect. I liked what
17:38
Speaker 1: we saw in him last time. I was a little
17:41
Speaker 1: surprised that the Nats or Blake Piteras said, well, Dion
17:46
Speaker 1: is getting the ball later today. I'd love to see
17:48
Speaker 1: this guy go through the lineup more than one time,
17:53
Speaker 1: but what are our thoughts on the recall of Luis Perales?
18:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think I can take this one. Again, a
18:04
Speaker 4: strong start to his outing. A couple walks in there
18:08
Speaker 4: that obviously you don't want to see, but I'm always
18:11
Speaker 4: cautious reading too much into a player's debut. That said,
18:16
Speaker 4: he was given the chance to again, extend himself and
18:20
Speaker 4: as the Nationals have done, whether it's with Jackson Kent,
18:24
Speaker 4: whether it's with Luis Perales, I'm sure we'll see it
18:26
Speaker 4: with Eric Tolman at some point. I'm sure we'll see
18:29
Speaker 4: it with anyone else who comes up down the stretch, right?
18:33
Speaker 4: They will be put in these tough spots. And it's
18:36
Speaker 4: not because the national banking, it's not because they want
18:39
Speaker 4: to lose games. But I do think it is because
18:42
Speaker 4: those guys need experience. They need to go through tough
18:44
Speaker 4: things and they need to have their metal tested. And
18:47
Speaker 4: so if I am going to choose to read too
18:49
Speaker 4: much in this debut, I would say, sure, from a
18:52
Speaker 4: fundamentally lever pulling standpoint, it was the wrong move to
18:55
Speaker 4: leave Perales out there as he lives up the Grand Slam. Um,
18:59
Speaker 4: given where the nationals are at, given what they hope
19:01
Speaker 4: Perales will become, given the fact that they view him
19:05
Speaker 4: as a starter long-term or at least hope he is
19:07
Speaker 4: a starter long-term, um, they need to see him push
19:11
Speaker 4: through those things. And so, um, yeah, I won't necessarily
19:14
Speaker 4: quibble with like what role he's in right now as
19:18
Speaker 4: it pertains to like, will be on starting games or
19:20
Speaker 4: coming out of the bullpen or whatever. But what I
19:23
Speaker 4: will say is I'm incredibly intrigued to see what Perales
19:26
Speaker 4: does when he has to face the guy twice or
19:30
Speaker 4: when he's given a third inning, right? Because the splitter's nasty.
19:35
Speaker 4: He throws 100. Can he throw it consistently? Can the
19:39
Speaker 4: Nationals trust him to call it, or can the Nationals
19:42
Speaker 4: call him to call it consistently for him? Um, and
19:46
Speaker 4: generally how, how effective can that stuff be? Because I
19:50
Speaker 4: think he's a bigger piece of the future than maybe
19:53
Speaker 4: the average nationals fan, uh, thinks he might be. Yeah.
19:57
Speaker 2: His stuff is electric. I'll say that like there, there
19:59
Speaker 2: are certain things I'm Spencer and I have agreed on
20:03
Speaker 2: this a lot, which is, uh, don't read in too
20:06
Speaker 2: much to the debuts, uh, there's so much, especially he's young. He's,
20:12
Speaker 2: you know, coming in a situation, you're just like, it's
20:14
Speaker 2: the big leagues. It's the third deck is a different
20:17
Speaker 2: deal when you step on that mound or even at
20:21
Speaker 2: the plate. So I think that that's something that, you know,
20:23
Speaker 2: we forget often. I do think that they didn't do
20:28
Speaker 2: him justice. I think at times with, with trying to
20:31
Speaker 2: establish some things to take it off the plate of
20:35
Speaker 2: him right early. There are so many splits and cutters
20:38
Speaker 2: thrown that it was like, guys, just back off. This
20:41
Speaker 2: is not meaning that you have to do it this
20:43
Speaker 2: way all the way through, but just establish the heater.
20:46
Speaker 3: He didn't throw his fastball at all, like until later.
20:49
Speaker 2: And it was like it was like almost too late
20:51
Speaker 2: instead of, you know, for me, there are touch pitches
20:55
Speaker 2: that he was trying to figure out that are his
20:58
Speaker 2: best stuff. And I am all in on throwing your
21:00
Speaker 2: best stuff. But when it comes to outing one, man,
21:03
Speaker 2: you got to get your feet wet. And I feel
21:05
Speaker 2: like sometimes it's going to pitch a little bit differently
21:09
Speaker 2: just in general, just based on feeling. Because you can't
21:12
Speaker 2: control that.
21:14
Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's part of the learning curve, right? This
21:17
Speaker 4: is something I think I heard back in May, I
21:19
Speaker 4: wanted to say. I was actually asking around because his
21:22
Speaker 4: cutter was getting absolutely destroyed. And so I asked people
21:25
Speaker 4: in the organization, like, what's going on here? And they're like,
21:28
Speaker 4: this is probably his second or third best pitch, but
21:31
Speaker 4: it is all he has command for in the zone
21:33
Speaker 4: at the moment. I think what you saw in his
21:35
Speaker 4: debut was him reverting back to what he knows he
21:39
Speaker 4: can control best. When in reality, part of his development
21:43
Speaker 4: and part of what is going to make him a
21:44
Speaker 4: successful big leaguer is being able to command 99, 100,
21:48
Speaker 4: 101 in the zone as well on top of that cutter,
21:51
Speaker 4: on top of everything else. That's the compelling angle for me.
21:56
Speaker 4: There's a lot there, but.
21:58
Speaker 3: He's also got a lot to learn. That split is nasty.
22:02
Speaker 1: It's exciting to watch.
22:03
Speaker 3: That's for sure.
22:04
Speaker 1: I hope we see him out of the pen tonight,
22:05
Speaker 1: but that's, uh, I got the first two games of
22:08
Speaker 1: the series. They dropped one yesterday.
22:10
Speaker 3: Real quick.
22:11
Speaker 2: The, the will be on thing, a little surprised, but
22:13
Speaker 2: not at all. Cause they, the Marlins have struggled against
22:17
Speaker 2: lefties and it really changes their line of construction on
22:20
Speaker 2: how you, how you do it. If you will, Dion's
22:22
Speaker 2: in there, it's a lot different than having Matt Waldron
22:25
Speaker 2: in there. Uh, then going to a guy like will
22:27
Speaker 2: be on right after. So the starter, the, the, the,
22:32
Speaker 2: The issue that they've had against left-handed pitchers, I think,
22:35
Speaker 2: stems more on why Will Dion's pitching.
22:38
Speaker 1: Let's get into today. Yeah, let's get into today. We're
22:43
Speaker 1: going to jump into that right now. On Deck, presented
22:50
Speaker 1: by the Fox One app. The Nationals have one more
22:53
Speaker 1: here against the Marlins. Will Dion on the bump later today? Franny,
22:57
Speaker 1: as you were just alluding to struggling against lefties and Spencer,
23:00
Speaker 1: you just said, maybe we'll get to see a little
23:02
Speaker 1: more pitch length out of Dion. Do you want to
23:05
Speaker 1: hit on that first really quickly?
23:07
Speaker 5: Sure.
23:07
Speaker 4: I mean, Dion was built out as a starter in
23:11
Speaker 4: the minor leagues, or I should say in years past,
23:14
Speaker 4: he has pitched as a starter in the minor leagues.
23:17
Speaker 4: We've seen him throw 57, 61, 65 pitches during his
23:20
Speaker 4: time with the Nats.
23:20
Speaker 3: I think.
23:25
Speaker 4: Blake even kind of mentioned casually the other day that
23:27
Speaker 4: in his ideal world, there would be no such thing
23:30
Speaker 4: as starters and relievers, which I think he's joking a
23:32
Speaker 4: little bit there. But in his mind, if you have
23:35
Speaker 4: a role that you can dominate that isn't traditionally defined,
23:39
Speaker 4: go dominate it. And I think they view Will Dion
23:41
Speaker 4: that way. Tough outing last time out. But as Franny mentioned,
23:45
Speaker 4: against a lineup that really struggles to hit lefties, Dion
23:49
Speaker 4: having a really funky look that also, frankly, has been
23:52
Speaker 4: pretty good against right-handers as well. I think that guy
23:56
Speaker 4: is fascinating and could talk about him for an hour.
23:59
Speaker 4: But yeah, just what he does in this game, I'm
24:03
Speaker 4: compelled to watch.
24:05
Speaker 3: He technically throws a screwball. Really? You realize that?
24:10
Speaker 2: Like it has more horizontal arm side run on his curveball.
24:15
Speaker 1: I'm telling my brother to tune in today. He's like
24:17
Speaker 1: the biggest screwball fan.
24:18
Speaker 4: Is it because it's coming from the top or what?
24:22
Speaker 3: It has to.
24:24
Speaker 2: The angle, because you think about Savage, right? Savage's slider
24:26
Speaker 2: goes straight across. It goes back up like the UFO
24:30
Speaker 2: from Emai.
24:33
Speaker 3: You look at that.
24:34
Speaker 2: Well, Emai is not a great example, but you know
24:36
Speaker 2: what I mean? It goes the other way. It's not
24:38
Speaker 2: supposed to go that way. He just, as a hitter,
24:44
Speaker 2: it's like when you watch from the front or from
24:48
Speaker 2: the blimp where we are up there, you think that
24:52
Speaker 2: you could see it.
24:52
Speaker 3: All right.
24:53
Speaker 2: And then I'm like looking down going, he hides it
24:57
Speaker 2: behind his whole like body to head.
25:01
Speaker 3: And then it comes out like straight over the top.
25:03
Speaker 2: Like it looks so different on TV than what it
25:07
Speaker 2: is in the box. And I feel like in the
25:09
Speaker 2: box guys have no idea where it's coming from.
25:11
Speaker 4: Yeah. Well, part of that too is cause he's, he's short. Right.
25:16
Speaker 4: And like, Guys who are short, that's often a weird
25:19
Speaker 4: look as is.
25:19
Speaker 3: You go there.
25:20
Speaker 6: Yeah.
25:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm short too. I'm not, you know, I think
25:24
Speaker 4: he'd acknowledge that. But genuinely, right, you have a lot
25:28
Speaker 4: of these shorter pitchers in Major League Baseball who are
25:32
Speaker 4: able to carve out really fascinating careers because it's just
25:34
Speaker 4: a look that you never, ever see in the big leagues.
25:38
Speaker 4: And so, yeah, every single thing he does is unique,
25:42
Speaker 4: and I find it fascinating.
25:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
25:46
Speaker 1: If you're looking to watch the game later today, MLB
25:48
Speaker 1: on Fox. MLB on Fox is streaming on Fox One.
25:52
Speaker 1: The race to October starts now, and we have your
25:54
Speaker 1: front row seat to the wildest walk-offs, lights out pitching,
25:57
Speaker 1: and clutch plays all season long. Follow every can't-miss matchup
26:01
Speaker 1: as teams battle for a spot in the postseason. Then
26:03
Speaker 1: stream the 2026 World Series live on Fox 1, at
26:06
Speaker 1: home or on the go, live or on demand. Never
26:09
Speaker 1: miss a moment. Stream now. Start your Fox 1 three-day
26:12
Speaker 1: free trial today at fox1.
26:14
Speaker 3: Com.
26:15
Speaker 1: All right, let's finish on some much lighter news. Saturday,
26:19
Speaker 1: the Nationals finally got their first walk-off victory of the season,
26:23
Speaker 1: the last team in baseball to get one. And Dylan
26:25
Speaker 1: Cruz was the one who delivered able to fist one
26:28
Speaker 1: off of the hands into right field. I really, really
26:31
Speaker 1: would love to see this be something that can hopefully
26:33
Speaker 1: get Dylan going or yes, Dylan. Um, but man, it
26:38
Speaker 1: feels good to have a walk off and Blake acknowledged
26:41
Speaker 1: that in the post game the other day.
26:45
Speaker 3: Yeah. For me.
26:45
Speaker 4: Um, sorry. When I, um, think about this moment, I mean, it's,
26:51
Speaker 4: it's great for the nationals. I think it's great for
26:53
Speaker 4: Dylan first and foremost. Um, that was as big of
26:56
Speaker 4: a smile as I've seen on his face since he's
26:59
Speaker 4: gotten in DC. We talked to him after the game.
27:01
Speaker 4: He said it was the biggest moment he's had in DC. Yeah.
27:05
Speaker 4: I mean, for someone who has been through a demotion
27:09
Speaker 4: this year, learning a new staff this year has candidly
27:14
Speaker 4: like up until that moment struggled in some high leverage
27:17
Speaker 4: spots this year. Someone who like, spends more of his
27:21
Speaker 4: pregame prep on relievers than I think almost anyone else
27:24
Speaker 4: on the roster, which is really compelling for someone who
27:27
Speaker 4: is usually in the starting lineup. All of those things
27:30
Speaker 4: coming together, being able to take a deep breath, ease
27:32
Speaker 4: his mind, and see one go down, I think is
27:35
Speaker 4: huge for Dylan.
27:37
Speaker 2: They had to do it against a guy like Michael
27:38
Speaker 2: Peterson who had been shoving.
27:40
Speaker 1: Yeah.
27:41
Speaker 3: The bats that led up to it, the Dale and.
27:46
Speaker 2: Lyle walk might be as about of a year or
27:48
Speaker 2: two for him.
27:50
Speaker 3: Just based on he.
27:52
Speaker 2: Was in swing mode and then he had a take
27:54
Speaker 2: up top that was like, oh, I got it. It
27:59
Speaker 2: was the moment where in rounders where he gets the
28:03
Speaker 2: Oreo and he looks, he got the tip. He's like,
28:04
Speaker 2: I figured it out. I figured it out in the moment.
28:07
Speaker 2: And I think that's the big part is what led
28:11
Speaker 2: up to it.
28:11
Speaker 3: And for Dylan, I could not be.
28:15
Speaker 2: Happier for an individual because we know the grind that
28:18
Speaker 2: he's been putting on himself and you know whatever you
28:22
Speaker 2: want to say rightfully so or not i mean it's
28:23
Speaker 2: like dude you're you're a stud you're gonna be awesome
28:26
Speaker 2: in this league it's gonna it's gonna take some time
28:29
Speaker 2: but once you figure it out it's gonna you're gonna
28:31
Speaker 2: bang and so uh i texted his dad right after
28:35
Speaker 2: i was like hell yes and he's like i think
28:37
Speaker 2: that's his first walk-off hit since like.
28:39
Speaker 3: Travel ball.
28:41
Speaker 2: He didn't have one at lsu interest and i was
28:44
Speaker 2: like it's so well because i said i was like
28:47
Speaker 2: because he's always walked in those.
28:49
Speaker 1: Situations probably yeah yeah that's a good point like.
28:52
Speaker 2: When he was always the guy like no matter what
28:54
Speaker 2: if it was a big moment he's probably not going
28:56
Speaker 2: to have that opportunity in college.
28:58
Speaker 1: Yeah that's a fair point one more final thing i
29:02
Speaker 1: think we should talk about today i'd be remiss if
29:04
Speaker 1: i didn't mention james wood started getting into rehab yesterday
29:08
Speaker 1: and he hit a home run just quick kudos and
29:11
Speaker 1: claps for James, but talking to Blake in the post
29:14
Speaker 1: game yesterday, Spencer, today is a universal off day for
29:17
Speaker 1: minor leagues. So they were going to check with him
29:19
Speaker 1: to see if he wants to play another game, but
29:20
Speaker 1: sounds like James might be back here pretty soon.
29:23
Speaker 3: Maybe this week.
29:25
Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean, I wouldn't rule Tuesday out. I think again,
29:29
Speaker 4: this is all contingent on how James feels. He, I
29:33
Speaker 4: think has made it pretty clear to, to Blake and
29:37
Speaker 4: to the organization and just, to anyone who watches him
29:41
Speaker 4: that he doesn't like sitting and so I don't think
29:43
Speaker 4: he'll have any any rest days per se outside of
29:47
Speaker 4: Monday to just see how things take off but yeah
29:51
Speaker 4: maybe he'd be at another rehab game on Tuesday or
29:54
Speaker 4: Wednesday or whatever but I I wouldn't be shocked to
29:57
Speaker 4: see him in the lineup on Tuesday.
30:00
Speaker 2: I just look at him in the, at least he didn't,
30:04
Speaker 2: he didn't play in the leader hose and like Abner Reva.
30:07
Speaker 3: Did you guys see that?
30:09
Speaker 4: I did.
30:09
Speaker 5: Yeah.
30:10
Speaker 4: Well, I was talking to Blake. I was like, you
30:11
Speaker 4: got to make sure they're not doing SpongeBob day or
30:13
Speaker 4: anything when it's in Harrisburg.
30:15
Speaker 3: They definitely, they definitely had someone else.
30:17
Speaker 2: I mean, cause that was, that was someone else, but
30:20
Speaker 2: just to see him, I honestly flip a ball to,
30:22
Speaker 2: to left field too for Homer was like nice again, because.
30:26
Speaker 3: I think teams have pounded him.
30:28
Speaker 2: We're forcing him to like pull a bit more than
30:30
Speaker 2: he wanted to attack and not get the ball in
30:33
Speaker 2: the air the other way before we got hurt. So
30:38
Speaker 2: I'm just excited. Like if anybody out there, like just
30:41
Speaker 2: can't see it, we, we gotta do some, we gotta,
30:46
Speaker 2: we gotta have you watch more baseball games. Cause like
30:48
Speaker 2: the moment that guy is in the lineup, that everything changes,
30:51
Speaker 2: whether it's the points, you know, attack on everybody. It's the,
30:56
Speaker 2: the collective sigh. You know, like we got our guy
31:00
Speaker 2: in there. That's going to, it just, he just helps
31:03
Speaker 2: everybody out. Thank you all so much for listening to
31:06
Speaker 2: today's episode. We will see you in the next one.
31:08
Speaker 2: Until then, let's go Nats.