Latest / The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective / The E1B2 2022 Recap Show Episode 3: Randeep Purewal, MBA

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The E1B2 2022 Recap Show Episode 3: Randeep Purewal, MBA · The Business of Alignment - Powered by The E1B2 Collective

0:02
All right, thank you so much for for joining me on today's
0:06
podcast. I know this year has been very
0:09
interesting. It's been a lot that's happened
0:13
and I think for me as I thought about trying to put together
0:17
some sort of a show of kind of like an end-of-the-year recap, I
0:22
wanted to try to just really understand how everyone I guess.
0:26
Thought about or are digesting 2022.
0:29
We had everything from covid-19. Add to a continuation of things
0:34
happening in the d&i space to, I think technology has picked up a
0:40
lot this year to layoffs and hiring freezes and cash freezes
0:47
to political situations happening.
0:50
I mean, there's just a lot happening in the world of work
0:52
so I figured why not get 8 or 10 or 15 people together over the
0:56
next week or so I think I've already done for I have another
1:00
for schedule and I'll just roll these out.
1:03
So I appreciate you coming on to this podcast so please tell
1:07
everyone who you are and a little bit about yourself and
1:11
then what happened Sounds good. Thank you so much.
1:16
Anthony, and glad to be here. So my name is Randy.
1:20
I am the CEO and founder of diverse 'l.
1:22
A diver soul is an employee experience.
1:24
B2B space platform where we help organizations build inclusive,
1:28
workplace. Cultures, our aspiration is to
1:32
be the global standard for inclusion in the workplace and I
1:37
would say our mission is having everyone in the workplace, have
1:42
equal and Equitable access to to the support and resources so
1:45
they can achieve their full potential.
1:48
The talent management piece is so important to me.
1:50
I'm super passionate about it. So I always felt that there was
1:54
an intersection between d e IB, diversity, Equity, inclusion of
1:57
belonging and talent management. And I kind of believe the
2:02
philosophy of a lot of the inequity in the workplace is due
2:06
to bias and subjective hiring practices policies and programs.
2:11
So that is the problem, we are looking to sell awesome.
2:16
And, and let me ask you this and I personally know this.
2:20
Well, actually, I choose I'll switch this way actually.
2:22
Sorry about the add there should?
2:25
We should. We officially do, like an
2:26
announcement between to the world of what's going to be
2:30
happening between you? And I do.
2:31
We want to kind of leave that leave that out here.
2:34
What are your thoughts, do? Should we share?
2:35
Should we share a little bit of context or wait a bit?
2:39
Yeah. No.
2:39
We totally can whether you want to do it now, or at the end
2:43
that? I'll let you decide but I
2:44
absolutely think we should include it.
2:46
Cool. Alright.
2:46
Let's do it now real quick cuz I'm excited about it.
2:49
We're getting what we're inching.
2:51
Very closely to a Monday morning where I think we're going to
2:55
start officially working together in a more official
2:59
capacity, so I'm excited. So, anyone listening here you
3:03
all know that the the e1b to Collective really is really is a
3:10
structure of brands that I either personally started or
3:14
brands that I just care a lot about.
3:16
And I'm committed to you and I'm excited about and you know,
3:19
working with and some sort of a fractional model or advising or
3:24
supporting in some sort of way. And for those that are listening
3:27
again, you know that every single company that I support
3:31
has to have some sort of an employee's first methodology
3:35
baked into how it works the value that it brings and the
3:39
impact that make on the company. And I always look for companies
3:44
that I think are either early. But have a lot of promising
3:47
attributes to it or I like to work with companies that are
3:50
just so obvious that it needs to be a part of organizations and
3:54
I've had the privilege and the honor of meeting you and and
3:58
being able to kind of work and help when the partnership side
4:01
on some sales side of things or not, just some strategy overall.
4:06
So for all the e1b to listeners, the the thousands of people over
4:10
the years that have tuned in that have subscribed, there's
4:14
going to be another brand that I'm excited.
4:16
I work with and I am really eager to to kind of sink in and
4:21
figure out how I could make an impact to help this product and
4:25
the word Vee. And I, how I can help them them
4:29
them, understand what that virtual can bring and what it
4:32
can do and how it can make an impact that I'm excited for the
4:35
impact that can negatively make for for the employees that are
4:38
going to be within these brands that we may be partnering or
4:41
working with directly. So give a little thought in some
4:44
context on your feelings about working with me and how this all
4:50
came about from your point of view, and kind of how you see
4:52
this playing out. Yeah, I cannot wait to get the
4:57
process started, you know, we've been speaking for a while now
5:01
getting acquainted and I think you know, we have similar
5:05
tendencies in the same topics and problems.
5:08
We are looking to solve but having slightly different skill
5:11
sets, I think that will be very complimentary, you know, you
5:14
yourself, you're going to play such an integral role in our
5:18
go-to-market strategy and execution.
5:20
So I think you know you will have definitely have an
5:23
opportunity to make a real Real impact.
5:26
And for that, we are super excited.
5:28
And I just think that, you know, the more I think when you can
5:32
collaborate like strategically with partners that are looking
5:36
in the same space and looking to solve similar problems, I think
5:40
just working together a complementary will be able to
5:43
accomplish so much more. And I think, I know but for the
5:51
snacks, I'm trying to remember myself as I'm talking, but for
5:53
the listeners, how did you come across?
5:56
How do you, what was the original moment?
5:57
You came across me personally, how did that happen?
6:00
And do you remember like that first interaction?
6:03
I do. So I was introduced to you via
6:07
Michael. That's right.
6:09
That's right. I was trying to find it yet and
6:11
for those are listening, you know, Michael very well.
6:13
That's how that all worked out and then Yeah, he was great.
6:16
He was just like, he knew, you know, because Michael and I met
6:19
because we're solving a similar problem, and then he's like, you
6:22
need to speak to Anthony. And then we just spoke and then
6:25
we were just, you know, getting to know each other and then I
6:27
found out, you know, same thing. I think the intersection of
6:31
talent and eei be, you know, that pretty much sold it for me.
6:34
Yeah, so so for everyone listening, I'm super excited to
6:38
work with diverse shil, you know, we now have diverse
6:41
racial, you know, almonds in sight Beyond brand Beyond
6:44
resume. A mind stand as you all know,
6:48
Michael made an announcement was also another company that was
6:51
very close to that. I kind of looked at as a part of
6:54
my little Collective of brands that I care about that.
6:56
I'm trying to make an impact around the unfortunately closed
6:59
their doors but there was a lot of great work dear so I'm just
7:02
very excited. I'm super I'm super eager to get
7:04
going and I think there's going to be a lot of impact made to to
7:08
kind of jump off and piggyback off of that.
7:11
Give us a little bit of more of a deep dive on what you're
7:14
trying to. To do in a meaningful way with
7:17
diverse rule. Like paid a little bit of a
7:19
picture of how you see this playing out over the next 12
7:24
months with heads of d&i internally folks that are
7:28
overseeing ghee. And I efforts HR teams Ops teams
7:31
like, how do you choose? This really playing out of the
7:33
next six to 12 months. Little 92nd.
7:36
If you have some thoughts on that.
7:38
Sure. Yeah.
7:38
I think the really interesting thing is that, you know, I mean
7:43
this phrase is probably overused but like, VIP is a journey.
7:46
But that also means that every organization has a little bit of
7:51
a different. I would say pace and status to
7:54
it in regards to how far along they are.
7:57
I think the great thing about diverse Elizabeth at what we're
8:00
looking to do is provide organizations with automated way
8:04
of managing their programs. So even though there is some
8:09
standardization from, you know, compliance and a lot of it just
8:12
like goals objectives and making sure that there's a measurable
8:17
way to track and monitor your progress.
8:19
So, you know, we can actually move the needle on the eib.
8:23
But then, at the same time, you can customize certain
8:26
programming, that will be more relative to your organization.
8:31
And I think that's why we really wanted to leave with the
8:34
inclusion piece. I think, you know, people often
8:38
assume it is all one thing, but diversity and inclusion are not
8:43
mutually exclusive so we really want to emphasize Sighs.
8:45
The fact that you can have one with the other and just because
8:48
you have one doesn't mean you have the other.
8:50
So when you leave with inclusion, it means that
8:53
everyone is included. And everyone, like I said, at
8:56
the top of our mission is everyone has equal and Equitable
8:59
access. So we just really want to make
9:00
sure that everyone can bring, you know, they're full of 10th
9:02
excels. And I always say when people
9:05
feel included, they feel engaged when they're engaged, they're
9:09
productive and when they're productive, guess what?
9:11
It impacts your bottom line. So, to me, it's a win-win.
9:14
No, I really agree with that. And you know what's interesting?
9:17
I shared with Michael on our wrap-up show that I think, I
9:24
think the HR Tech stack is going to be a very interesting thing
9:28
in 2023 from like a strategy perspective, like, like the HR
9:33
teams, the CEOs, the companies out here that are being very
9:36
thoughtful about the HR Tech stack that they utilize and have
9:40
and when I say a chart except for those, that may not
9:42
understand what I mean by that. No, you They have technology and
9:45
internal comms. Obviously this would be a
9:47
technology that utilize within the dni and Landscape may have
9:51
technology on the payroll side. We have technology on the
9:53
benefit side, we have technology that that that is an over
9:57
encompassing from like an HR s perspective.
9:59
We're kind of manages a lot of different different functions in
10:03
the HR speech may have a technology on the recruiting
10:06
side. What are your thoughts on that
10:08
at a high level being someone? That's founding and another
10:11
company that I think can be getting another solution.
10:16
Another product within someone's stack, you do you think that's
10:19
a, that's a strategic and smart, and interesting Focus that a lot
10:24
of, you know, c-suite leaders and just leaders.
10:27
You to be a little bit more thoughtful about heading in
10:29
2023? Oh for sure but I always think
10:33
it's the value proposition, right?
10:35
Like what value are you going to bring to the organization to
10:37
make it worthwhile? And to me, I position diverse
10:41
shal, as, like a virtual Chief inclusion officer and, you know,
10:46
I am obviously, very, very appreciative of all the hard
10:51
work that our div Partners do in organizations.
10:55
But at the same time, you know people are looking at their
10:58
bottom line. And so if we can Provide a
11:01
solution that is a fraction of the cost but you know, efficient
11:06
from a data perspective and a way to, as I mentioned, you
11:09
know, quantify your D IB program.
11:13
I just think that's a no-brainer in my opinion, but at the same
11:17
time to, you know, we plan to and that's kind of how we met
11:20
two is like, you know, collaborating with other
11:23
strategic Partnerships where we can be able to integrate with
11:26
them as well. Because we know we obviously
11:29
don't want to overwhelm. Things with having access to
11:31
different tools but at the same time, there aren't very many
11:35
tools if any to my knowledge that are able to do what we are
11:39
planning to do. I love that.
11:42
And what would you think, you know, would be, as you look into
11:46
20 turning 3? What would be probably the most
11:47
important data that I virtual be able to kind of, give to
11:51
someone? That will be overseeing.
11:54
The project utilizing and trying and trying to frankly, make more
11:57
strategic decisions. When utilizing what do you
11:59
think? Is one of those things that
12:00
stick out for you? Yeah, I would say 100% And this
12:04
is just my perspective because it's what I come from the world
12:07
of finance and it went to business school.
12:08
So for me quantifying things A super important, I measure
12:12
everything. And so that's kind of the way we
12:15
designed our tool to so one you can track your progress your
12:18
year, you know, from like an engagement perspective from
12:22
demographic data and from even like compliance governance like
12:25
you shouldn't have to start from scratch every year.
12:28
If you can just leverage from previous years and kind of lay
12:32
the groundwork but then also I would say, the thing I'm
12:35
probably most excited about is our inclusion index.
12:39
So it's a Nation kind of like a scorecard for inclusion.
12:43
And so that is something that, you know, we continue to build,
12:47
you know, our database for 2023 and hopefully by the end we can
12:50
look back and start categorizing organizations, you know, based
12:55
on peer groups, Etc and see where they fit in.
12:59
And I think a lot of the data we plan to collect will be really
13:02
telling and help you know. And we really want to share from
13:06
a thought leadership perspective to you know the insights that we
13:09
learn over the years. As well.
13:12
Yeah, very important. Very important part.
13:15
Let me do this. What up?
13:19
What comes to mind as you think about 20 22?
13:22
What's the first thing that pops up?
13:25
I don't know, I'm kind of put you on the spot.
13:27
I don't know it's funny because I just I just posted on our
13:32
social media yesterday to just 2022 rewind and I kind of lifted
13:36
off some of the top, you know, work talk tracks of the year.
13:41
I thought I was going to pick five for 2022.
13:44
I would say, I mean, I can't ignore as much as I'm sick and
13:47
tired. Hopefully, we can leave it in
13:48
2022 but like quitting, this is was one of the big ones.
13:53
I think layoffs, as well. I would say the battle between
13:58
remote hybrid and office is still ongoing and will continue
14:02
in 2023. And then towards the end of the
14:05
year, it started out more very heavy on the recruitment side
14:09
but then it ended more focused on retention.
14:12
And then I would end with workplace Wellness really kind
14:15
of came to the Forefront, right? Having you know access to Mental
14:20
Health Solutions and psychologically safe spaces but
14:23
as well addressing burnout for example, so that that was great
14:28
to finally see being prioritized our organizations Let me ask you
14:32
a personal question, maybe not a personal question.
14:36
A question that may be personal to some people.
14:41
Wow. And I'm sure there's laws and
14:44
rules around this, you know. And this is probably me showing
14:47
a bit of my ignorance and maybe I need to open up the Sherm, the
14:50
Sherm book Theory and refresh my memory, a bit from like an HR
14:54
compliance perspective and like a HIPPA perspective.
14:57
But On the, on the mental health part.
15:02
How much should and how deep and how honest and how vulnerable
15:08
should Employees be with their direct reports in a supervisor
15:14
level at a director level, at a VP level, how much should
15:17
supervisors vp's managers? How much should they know about
15:21
the mental health, status of their people.
15:24
And how much should they have that counselor like therapeutic
15:29
like a skill and ability? Like, where was I?
15:33
I know there's a bit of a gray area that comes into play where
15:36
you can kind of get, you can kind of get too close to the Sun
15:39
a bit. And it can make things a little
15:40
uncomfortable, but at the same time as you inch nearer to the
15:44
Sun and when I mean the sun I mean you know knowing too much
15:47
right getting getting it getting too much into the weeds get into
15:51
much as other personal life, but but when I but I know as you
15:54
inch closer to it, there are values there where we're at as
16:00
you internally as you inch nearer, you can build a little
16:03
bit more of a empathetic and personal relationship with with
16:08
that person that can build. Is that can actually translate
16:11
into that person working harder for you and the future, and
16:14
going above and beyond, and being super Chic.
16:16
Even being even more strategic, would be even more productive
16:19
because they feel like not that they owe you, but they feel like
16:22
they they they want to work hard for you kind of like a you have
16:25
an athletic background kind of like when a coach really
16:29
understands the players life family things that they're going
16:32
through, you know, the the the player feel like you want to,
16:35
you want to work hard, you want you want to show up, you want
16:37
to, you want to do well for your coach?
16:39
When you feel like your coach actually gives a knock
16:41
incursions podcast, it mean, you don't mind either, you know,
16:44
actually gives a shit about you. So, what are your thoughts on
16:47
all of that? Like, how, how close to the sun
16:50
should these leaders be? Yeah.
16:53
No I think it's a very fair question but I think it depends.
16:59
I hate giving that answer but I'll say a couple of things one
17:03
inclusive leadership, that's where it starts right?
17:06
And you know not to put in a plug but we do have some
17:09
Workshop around that and what does that mean that is is
17:13
meaning that you are going to always like manage your team
17:18
independently? And I think management 101 is
17:21
knowing your people. And recognizing that everyone is
17:24
different so you can't always have a one-size-fits-all
17:26
approach. So once you start getting to
17:28
know your people and I mean like yeah there's a work element but
17:32
also outside of work, you know. Where did they grow up?
17:34
Or did go to school? What do they like to do on the
17:35
weekends, like to me, I practices all the time.
17:39
So for me, I had great relationships with my team and
17:42
so they were super comfortable telling me this, but I'm not
17:46
everyone has that same emotional and social intelligence, right?
17:49
So I don't think you can always teach These things.
17:53
And this is where I think, third-party Solutions are super
17:56
helpful, like using, you know, some of those apps whether it's
18:00
like headspace or calmer, you know, around meditation or even
18:03
just access to, you know, the Specialists that can assist in
18:08
that. But I think the most important
18:10
thing is having an open dialogue to your point.
18:12
You know, player coach for sure when they feel comfortable
18:15
discussing that with you, you don't need to know the ins and
18:18
outs of it, but I think the support that you can provide and
18:21
the access to Resources will go a long ways because it's way
18:25
more detrimental. Having somebody's disengaged, or
18:28
going through some things and you have no idea and then it
18:31
just, you know, ends up going downhill.
18:34
So it's better to address it. And I think at the end of the
18:37
day, yeah, the employee will appreciate it.
18:40
They'll come back refreshed. You know, and I think it's a
18:43
once again it's better for the organization rather than just
18:46
disregarded ignore or try like a really Cutthroat hardcore, you
18:50
know, one size, fits all approach.
18:52
Yeah. Yeah.
18:53
No, I agree and it can be used. Strategically like, for
18:55
instance, you know, a lot of, a lot of people that I've had,
18:58
that have worked for me partnered with me, I will admit
19:03
I rub too close to the line sometimes, and I always
19:07
apologize when I do, but I genuinely like to know, you
19:11
know, if you are personally going through a lot of stuff,
19:14
like, like if there's things happening with your family, if
19:17
there's things happening with a partner of yours is there's
19:19
things happening, just with your own energy, Year old mental
19:23
health levels. I want to know them immediately
19:26
so I can readjust my expectations of you, right?
19:30
So, I can, and I think that's so empathetic and so shorty, like
19:35
for like, very tactical example. You know, if they're if there's
19:38
a there's a, you know, a product, a product team lead
19:42
that has a team of Engineers and, you know, one of the
19:45
engineers inevitably is going through a lot.
19:48
Whether it's financially, you know, mentally emotionally
19:51
family-wise Knowing that early in the process, when you have a
19:55
deadline to meet, you can be a little bit more strategic.
19:58
Maybe you can pull someone out from another team and have them
20:02
give a little bit more support. Maybe you can build in a little
20:04
bit more flexibility in terms of schedule.
20:05
Maybe you can take a few things off their plate, so they can
20:08
focus, just on meeting, that deadline and spend the other
20:11
time handling, some of those family Dynamics, and some of the
20:13
mental health Dynamic. So, I think, again, it's a great
20:17
area, but I think the moral leader can know about what's
20:21
happening. You can make a strategic
20:23
decision that can actually impact the business while also
20:26
setting a message to your employees in your, in your
20:30
direct reports that you're being thoughtful.
20:32
So it's a it's a it's a bit of that and I always say this to
20:36
people Everyone listens to this podcast, he knows me, they're
20:39
like oh he's the employees first guy, he literally doesn't even
20:42
care about the business and I'm like, no everyone listening,
20:46
it's a 1, b 2. So the B is there, like
20:49
business, is there like I'm not ignoring the business.
20:52
And frankly, if anyone really knows my store, they know that I
20:56
come from a world where it was very much business.
20:59
First, you know, I'm a Founder. First, I'm going to see your
21:02
first. I'm a i-i-i was never that guy
21:05
that started as an HR generalist or recruiter and just negatively
21:10
Rose throughout the ranks and always had a people-centered
21:12
mindset. If anyone really knows my story,
21:14
they know I made a very crucial mistake early on, so I'm very
21:17
business focused. So I think The wrap all that up.
21:22
Would love your thoughts on that.
21:23
I think you can have a nice ebb and flow between really caring
21:26
about someone at a personal level, but also taking that data
21:30
to make some adjustments. So they can so that they can
21:32
still, you know, Crush their deliverables or they are that
21:37
they can still be strategic enough to get things done or if
21:41
you personally need to do some reshuffling with, you know, with
21:44
workflows and expectations and things of that nature.
21:48
So what are your macro thoughts? On all Yeah, I would just to
21:53
build on that to I think there's two elements so I agree with
21:57
you. Like sometimes people are going
21:59
through things and I meant I was the one that mentioned like the
22:01
workplace Wellness piece of it. But then on the flip side, it's
22:05
cognitive diversity. So for me, that's super
22:08
important and that is always how I've lead and manage my team's.
22:11
Meaning that everyone's brains are different.
22:13
We already know this. Everyone is different but
22:15
everyone has different motivational drivers.
22:17
Everyone has different behaviors and preferences, how they work,
22:19
right? Like to me I'm you know, I'm a
22:22
more private person so I'm never going to share anything unless
22:26
somebody asks me. But proactively I will never do
22:28
that and it's just but like, I don't take it personally.
22:31
It's just how I am and then work-wise to like, I like
22:35
working asynchronously and autonomously.
22:37
I like to have as minimal meanings as possible, right?
22:41
That's my preference. So when you know what people
22:44
prefer and what they like, what kind of schedules they want to
22:47
make Etc? You can always get the best out
22:50
of them. To me that's always ultimate
22:51
goal like going back to sports references like I hate losing
22:56
more than I like to win. So to me it's always about
23:00
winning and trying to do the best possible.
23:04
No, 100% 100%. I love that wore.
23:08
Some other things that were top of.
23:10
My I know you already gave me a few, so I'll exhale.
23:12
Pull another one that she said, the quite the quiet quitting in
23:15
2022. Do you think that was more of a
23:22
Do you think that was more of a conversation?
23:26
A thing that obviously is happening a headline or do you
23:32
think companies are now moving from?
23:34
Hey, this is happening this to headline.
23:36
This is something that we need to be aware of we're off to
23:39
actually, making some changes and solutions.
23:41
You know, one of the biggest key notes that I did this past year.
23:45
One of one of the topics that I was covering was on quiet
23:47
wedding and a lot of the work that can be done to to kind of
23:51
work. Work on that.
23:52
But do you think there have been enough companies that have taken
23:55
that seriously from a strategic standpoint?
23:59
Yeah, it's interesting. I think when at the height of
24:02
that term, I think it was addressed differently.
24:06
But as far as the economic situation has you know change a
24:11
little bit towards the end of the year I think some people
24:13
have different thoughts. What do?
24:14
I mean there was a big shift in employee empowerment and I am
24:19
all like similar to you. I think, when you Empower
24:22
employees, you're going to hit your bottom line that much, you
24:26
know, harder. So it's a win-win when you do it
24:28
that way. At the same time to me, this is
24:31
nothing new. It's just look another term for
24:33
engagement, right? And it was the first time where
24:36
yeah employees probably had more bargaining power than Employers
24:40
in a very long time. So that's where this quiet
24:43
quitting kind of stemmed out of but then towards the end of the
24:46
year. And once again there's a lot of
24:49
mixed signals because yes, there was tremendous layoffs, more, so
24:52
in Tech than other Industries, but at the end of the day, there
24:55
were still a surplus in net new roles versus losses and layoffs.
24:59
Oops. So candidates still have more
25:03
bargaining power than they did like say pre 2020.
25:07
Maybe not as much the, you know, during the peak but they still
25:10
do and I think that will still continue.
25:12
So that's where the retention piece is so important.
25:14
So for organizations want to really, really, you know, get
25:19
the best out of their candidates and hold onto the best people.
25:22
You should really, really focus on the retention.
25:24
And that's part of the solution that for diversity, as well as
25:27
understanding your employees. So you Put them in best
25:30
positions, and we already know, like, career progression is
25:33
usually, like, top three hands down.
25:37
One of the reasons why people leave their organization.
25:41
So, I want to give you some thoughts on that because I
25:43
couldn't, I couldn't agree more with with the Beyond brand
25:49
company, in the Beyond resume company.
25:52
They're like brothers and sisters and cousins to each
25:54
other, right? Beyond beyond brand Beyond
25:56
resume, right? So they're they're, they're
25:58
really like a Section in a mirror to each other and I think
26:03
I've given you a bit of context, but I'll do a little bit here
26:06
and everyone has been that's listening.
26:08
You probably have heard me talk about this a thousand times, but
26:11
with be on resume there, are we call them operational realities
26:17
or like, expectations needs and desires at that, a professional
26:23
has from a timing perspective that are incredibly important to
26:28
them. So, for instance, Career
26:29
progression is one of them like I believe every single
26:32
professional for the most part, not all.
26:34
But for the most part, you know, your high level professionals,
26:38
they have an idea in their mind, what they are, what they're
26:41
looking for, what they need with the desire, what they expect
26:45
from a career progression and what the company will do about
26:48
that, it could be Financial elements of, could be more
26:50
responsibility. It could be entitles, it could
26:53
be working with different teams, whatever the case is going to
26:55
be. And with the Beyond resume
26:59
execution, Options that I'm doing.
27:00
I think it's incredibly important to help professionals
27:03
understand what that timing looks like for them and really
27:05
understand what they expect from the company, within that time
27:10
window to, to help them meet their professional goals, and
27:14
their career mapping goals. If you want to look at it from
27:16
that angle on the exact opposite of it, what I help companies do
27:21
with Beyond brand and say tell your people directly in this new
27:27
technology way that I have Beyond brand, but to keep it
27:29
Scrappy tell your employees directly.
27:33
Where they stand where the company stands frankly, from a
27:36
career mapping perspective, from a career, you know, from a
27:39
ladder in perspective from a career progression perspective.
27:43
Because you and I both know, companies know if they're going
27:46
to have more opportunities in an 18-month window if that person
27:49
is going to be able to put themselves in position and
27:52
companies know what someone can do down to the T, to put
27:56
themselves in a position, to get a promotion to put themselves in
27:58
a position to have to have more taboo.
28:02
More more impactful responsibility, you know, I
28:06
remember one thing in the night and then I'll end it this way
28:08
Keith ferrazzi who was a phenomenal.
28:11
I people don't know, but he's a phenomenal guy that works in the
28:14
nurse nor science Neuroscience sector and helps companies.
28:20
Also kind of figure out how to utilize Neuroscience, to help
28:23
their Performance Management systems and things of that
28:25
nature. And he always talks about be
28:28
very, very, very direct and detailed with your people give A
28:32
very clear roadmap. You have to do this, this, this,
28:35
this, this, this, this, this, and this over the next 12 months
28:39
and you will be in the position to get this promotion work on
28:43
new projects. Whatever the case is going to be
28:45
and companies fail miserably at that, and it's not even like
28:50
this, you know, it's not even like this radical idea.
28:52
They have the data just communicated, just hold space
28:56
for your team, leaders of 64, your department leaders for
28:59
your, you know, for your directors, your VPS, Old space
29:03
to to update them. Whether that's quarterly weather
29:06
next door in the 101 and be very, very contextual to that
29:10
individual and paint a very clear roadmap and support them
29:13
along that road map. So, to your point, I think that
29:16
was definitely one of the biggest factors of quiet
29:18
quitting, and it's a very easy fix, whether it's utilizing a
29:23
Beyond resume approach. You just, um, you have a deep
29:26
meaningful, a 90-minute one-on-one with each and every
29:29
one of the employees that you lead, and just really
29:31
understand. What career progression timing
29:34
looks like for them individually and contextually or on the
29:38
Beyond brand side of things. Where stood down for give you
29:42
know, have someone facilitating really unpacked your thoughts
29:44
and internal Communications perspective and tell your people
29:48
tell your team. This is where you personally
29:51
stand. This is where we stand as it
29:53
pertains to the next opportunities and we roles that
29:56
we're going to need. We're going to try to hire from
29:58
within with these type of roles. We're going to try to hire from,
30:01
you know, higher Outside of your organization with these.
30:03
Here are the reasons behind both measured you can do to position
30:06
yourself. Better from the lmd perspective
30:08
From upscaling perspective. So I'm ranting now but I just
30:12
think there's a lot that can be done and it's actually very
30:16
simple as it pertains to Career progressions and things of that
30:20
nature and I don't think employers are asking for too
30:23
much. So what are your thoughts and
30:24
all of that? Now, you are absolutely correct
30:28
but the key word is in theory, like it should not be that
30:32
complicated. Located.
30:32
But you know, why it is and okay and I don't want to get started
30:36
on this time because I will not stop, but leadership is like
30:41
there's a massive disconnect and especially in the era.
30:44
Now, I do not think, you know, majority of people managers out.
30:49
There are equipped with the skills to be able to navigate
30:52
this new wave of career mapping a couple of things.
30:56
One, there's a lot of differences in Generations.
30:59
I don't know why people ignore that but it's very evident.
31:02
And you know, Boomers worst Millennials because gen Z we
31:04
have certain Tendencies and how we want to work.
31:06
Perfect example is me my entire career as work in a financial
31:11
institution and they expected you to follow through a
31:14
particular Continuum but that was not appealing to me.
31:17
No one ever ever ever tried to understand what kind of work I
31:22
want to do, what motivates me and where, you know, my
31:25
strengths lie and how best to position myself.
31:28
So I had to figure it out myself.
31:30
But that also made me, I would say Bit of an expert in career
31:33
mapping. Because once you can understand
31:35
these things about candidates, you could put them in the right
31:38
direction, that's the problem. Most people don't really
31:41
understand how to put their employees in the best position
31:44
and then employees. You can't blame them because
31:46
they don't know what they don't know.
31:48
So, they're supposed to rely on their manager, right?
31:50
And then you have a lot of Miss matching guidance where I think
31:54
we need to focus on is more. You know, I think we talked
31:58
about career portfolios or career, you know, lattices or
32:01
whatever you want to. Referred to it, is where people
32:03
should focus on the skills. They want to develop, not
32:06
necessarily the rolls. But the skills that I think
32:09
would allow candidates and organizations to create more
32:14
mutually beneficial situations, No, I couldn't agree more.
32:19
I couldn't agree more. Heading into 2023 what um what
32:28
comes to mind as it pertains to some of these topics that I
32:32
virtual directly you know what's the first thing that comes to
32:35
mind that you think and this first quarter 2023 companies,
32:39
need to take take very seriously and be very intentional around.
32:43
What's the first thing that comes to mind?
32:46
For sure. I know I'm going to start with
32:48
the career mapping since we just finished with it.
32:50
But in particular order, I think that is by far one of them.
32:54
I will continue to see more enhancement and workplace
32:58
culture. I think people really are
33:00
confused and when I say people, I mean senior leadership, once
33:03
again, I think they don't understand how important
33:06
workplace culture is for, you know, younger generations.
33:10
For example, I remember reading the Gartner study and they were
33:14
just talking about you. Know what preferences are and
33:16
Boomers like place? Like workplace culture like dead
33:20
last and gen Z and Millennials. It was top two or three, so that
33:24
tells you once again like how important that is I'm going to
33:28
say d eib, for sure. I think there's a lot of Miss
33:32
Eckman say information or communication, or just
33:35
misunderstanding of the status of what that looks like in the
33:39
upcoming year, but I think it needs to continue to be at the
33:42
Forefront. Otherwise we're never gonna, you
33:44
know, get to where And also like it.
33:47
Where do you know from a business perspective?
33:48
It makes a lot of sense. I think it's the execution,
33:51
sometimes people struggle with so I'm hoping never show can
33:54
help with that and then the other two, I would say that are
33:56
going to be super important. Are, you know, paid transparency
34:00
laws are coming into effect. So we saw a big, big, huge
34:04
Improvement on more, you know, Equity audits excetera from a
34:09
compensation perspective and then flexibility you cannot
34:14
underestimate. Estimate, how important?
34:16
So when I mentioned the, you know, Career Development Career
34:18
mapping as top three, the other two are flexibility and then
34:22
compensation. So those three are always always
34:25
need to be priority for organizations.
34:29
You have a financial background. So let me ask you this question
34:34
years ago and I've moved. I've moved past it because I
34:36
don't think there's a real way to do it but let's just
34:39
brainstorm it again, brainstorm on it again.
34:42
Now that I'm a bit older, a little bit wiser, and this is
34:45
really in your space. So I got a concept years ago and
34:51
I never named it correctly. But I pretty much the concept
34:55
was like, It was like contextualizing.
34:59
Someone's someone's salary. So what I mean by that is when I
35:04
was ahead of people internally, what I would do is I would have
35:08
one-on-ones a lot but I would have these quarterly one-on-ones
35:13
where I would get an update on someone's life and many
35:16
different categories. And one of those categories were
35:21
were career mapping, and another category was finances, because
35:25
and here's why. I'd do it every 90 days,
35:27
typically, every 90 days to six months, Your high performers.
35:33
I'll make it very clear, your high performance.
35:35
Usually at a minimum twice a year are thinking about Am I
35:41
doing enough? Career-wise?
35:44
Professionally my role, the impact on making the things that
35:48
I'm working on? Do I need to make tweaks and
35:50
adjustments like usually twice a year?
35:53
There's like a moment at, you know, during Tuesday evening
35:58
over a couple glasses of wine or on the weekend, with their
36:02
family, you know, you or themselves.
36:04
Usually, like, there's a moment, a few times a year where a high
36:07
professional individual or high-level individual from a
36:10
professional perspective, Takes a moment and just does like a
36:12
does like an audit of where they are professionally and their
36:16
role in their impact. And if there needs to be tweaks
36:19
and adjustments, and so, I felt as it had a people.
36:21
I want to know about, I want to know what that looks like.
36:23
I want to know if I need to be a little bit more thoughtful and
36:26
make some adjustments in tweaks on the career mapping plans that
36:29
we may have put in place six months, previous, or from last
36:33
year's, what a one that we had around this, right?
36:36
The second thing and made in this is a little bit different.
36:39
So this isn't so much Much the, the highest performing
36:45
individuals usually get paid the most, but this is for, maybe the
36:48
middle pack individuals. I always felt coming from where
36:52
I come from that. There's a consistent Eben flow
36:58
year by year potentially on what?
37:01
Someone, which someone's contextual financial status
37:05
looks like, and what they need from their company.
37:08
So, this is what I mean by that. Every six months or so and this
37:12
may just be my life and that's why I kind of stopped working on
37:15
that. Maybe that's just personal to
37:16
me. But every six months or so
37:18
there's something that happens. My mother needs more for me, my
37:23
wife needs more for me. I just want more financially,
37:27
there are emergencies that take place where my financial needs
37:31
have spiked. You know, there's a family
37:34
member that moves in, there are no just it just seems like every
37:38
six months or so, there's something.
37:40
That happens. And so, I came up with this
37:42
concept where I said, well, what if we were to try to find a way
37:46
to meet employees where they are financially, where once a year,
37:51
every 18 months or so, we do a check-in.
37:54
And we like just really do a full audit of what's happening
37:57
in their life personally and little slight adjustments.
38:01
In tweaks that they personally want to make on the career
38:04
mapping side and the financial side of things.
38:08
So not your traditional like, hey, You know, it's time for you
38:12
to make a little bit more money. It's time for you to do your
38:14
traditional end-of-year review more or less like a keeping a
38:18
pulse and keeping a finger on what's happening in someone's
38:22
like personally. So long story short I said, is
38:26
there a way possible that we can go to each and every individual
38:30
and say, what do you need personally?
38:33
Like what do you need personally?
38:34
Like what are the Ebbs and flows of that?
38:37
And what is that? Number obviously, as I've got
38:40
more mature, I've realized again that you need to have
38:43
consistency with that because you'll have a person that has
38:46
exact same job does exact same things.
38:49
Making 84,000 or the other person says, I don't really need
38:53
it before thousand. I'm a single.
38:54
I'm a single, I'm a single guy. I'm a single person.
38:57
I'm I live in a one-bedroom apartment.
39:00
I don't really like to do too much in pretty Frugal.
39:02
I'll be just fine with 57,000, so you really can't really it's
39:06
hard to. It's hard to build a system to
39:08
do that. But but anyway, what are your
39:10
thoughts? And all of that I was trying to
39:12
find a way to just simply meet people where they are and make
39:16
finances the last and they have to think about, right?
39:20
If we, as a company, can erase any anxiety around finances, I
39:25
think we're taking a step in the right direction to gain their
39:29
trust, their engagement, and their dedication to the
39:31
organization. I don't want finances to be a
39:34
conversation. That is - that is scary, that is
39:37
uncomfortable. I want to eliminate that by
39:40
meeting them. They are contextually.
39:42
How could something like this exists in your in your opinion.
39:45
I know it's probably crazy and very ignorant but I've always
39:48
wanted to try to do this. No, no, I your you definitely
39:52
have the real intent. And so like, I think anyone
39:55
would appreciate an organization that cares about their financial
39:59
well-being. Right?
40:00
And so I'll say two things. Yes, coming from working in the
40:04
world of Finance. Yeah, I learned that working
40:07
there. But if I hadn't which I know
40:09
from a lot of, you know, friends, Who never worked in
40:11
that industry. You know, they were always
40:13
behind as the result of that lack of financial literacy and
40:17
education. So I would say two things one I
40:20
think organizations should do that and I would definitely like
40:23
to implement that at diverse one day to where we have Financial
40:26
Wellness like type of workshops and so people have access to you
40:30
know professional advice and resources so they can be putting
40:34
themselves in that best position and then on the second part
40:37
which is more what you were talking about.
40:40
He is giving people, I think it's the option, not everyone
40:44
will feel comfortable having these discussions, but I think
40:48
if you give them an option, the people who do want to take
40:51
advantage, absolutely could right?
40:53
And if there was different ways to structure their pay and or to
40:57
your point where, you know, people like everyone's
41:01
motivational drivers are different to, right?
41:02
So if money is your primary motivational driver, then your
41:07
manager should know that and put you in position.
41:10
Is where you can be in roles that will allow you to maximize
41:14
Financial incentives. So, it's once again, it's very,
41:18
it's these kind of things in my opinion, need to be customized.
41:21
There's no blanket solution, but once organizations, that will
41:25
offer these types of options will end up being able to not
41:29
only, you know, have happier more engaged employees, but it
41:32
will help from a retention perspective as well.
41:37
Thank you for that hours on Meet the, I apologize.
41:40
So knowing that the intention is there is there a technical or
41:44
tactical way of doing it? Or is it just too difficult and
41:49
hard to scale? No, I think there's a way to do
41:53
that. Maybe we could, you know, talk
41:55
about this on. I do another session for sure.
41:58
I think it's understand like the financial literacy perspective
42:02
is educating people and in relative to that organization
42:05
and that's where like But he should be more transparent in
42:09
compensation. I'm not sitting here and saying
42:11
like disclose people's pain. Oh talk about what, how their
42:14
compensation models are structured.
42:16
Right. You know it's amazing to me and
42:19
I works at very large organizations and small
42:21
organizations where people had no clue what people were getting
42:25
paid in other departments, right?
42:26
And I think that is a disservice and maybe that's kind of
42:29
something. What you're getting to two is
42:31
that, you know, people don't know what they don't know.
42:34
So I think organizations should be more forthcoming.
42:37
Coming on compensation models in different departments, on a
42:40
percent. Here's the last thing I'll say
42:42
on that and then we'll head to wrap up here.
42:46
One thing that I did start doing and I actually stole this and if
42:51
anyone you know Garrett, everyone knows Gary Vee.
42:54
Now we're you know what? You know who Gary Vee is?
42:56
Correct, of course. Yeah, which is good for him.
42:59
Right there that do there was a point where not a lot of people
43:01
knew it, but but um, one thing that he is incredibly, ER, rated
43:07
on. And I've never, I've asked, I've
43:08
said this once. Do you know, Gary Vee and Claude
43:13
silver, and the Vayner media companies.
43:15
The reason why I became a head of people.
43:19
No, no, I don't know. This.
43:20
A lot of people don't know this. Yes.
43:21
So People under rate Gary vaynerchuk on his leadership and
43:29
culture ability. So he did a couple things.
43:32
Number one, he has a lot of, he has a lot of content on this
43:36
piece that a lot of people don't know.
43:37
A lot of people don't Gary Vee for his you know garage selling
43:42
or his marketing ideas or perspectives on the industry or
43:47
his social media or and there's many motivational things there.
43:53
A lot of different pieces of that, that people kind of study
43:56
or learn or understand about Gary Vee one, very subtle.
43:59
Underrated thing is the way they he structured, Claude silver who
44:03
is pretty much a Ctrl but he calls the wrong with your Chief
44:06
heart officer and what he did with claude's role is Claude
44:11
came from Finance so Claude was a VP in the finance department
44:16
and and inevitably she always everyone that worked with her or
44:23
For her always said, just the way that g connected and loved
44:28
and appreciated the, the employees that she, that she had
44:31
working for her. It was, and it was just very
44:34
different into, really skilled her inevitable team and allowed
44:38
her to, like, really over index from the value that she was able
44:40
to bring to the to, that particular, you know, House of
44:43
the business and that particular unit and so inevitably what he
44:46
did, is he put her in the position to pretty much be a
44:48
CHR. Oh, but he gave her a lot of
44:51
financial backing. To build your more traditional
44:55
HR team under her. So, they have a VP of HR.
44:58
They had your generalist, they have your recruiters, they have
45:01
your internal comms teams, you know, she has a very traditional
45:06
team under her, but they made her the number one role.
45:11
And this is what they did. Also, they put her as the number
45:13
two, salary paid as well as decision-maker in the company.
45:18
Over this UFO over the co o over folks on over Everyone else.
45:24
So it's Gary and then it's claw. And in the reason why he said is
45:27
he believes that culture and people are the foundation and
45:31
the backbone of company. So, that's a, that's a, that's a
45:35
little bit of a fun. And then inevitably, well, I
45:38
mean explain why I even said all that I, I found out about this
45:43
whole framework years ago and I said that's really interesting.
45:47
How he structure claude's rolls, actually the way I want to
45:50
actually live out my room and I want to be more of a strategic
45:54
partner. I want to have the traditional
45:56
team underneath of me, but I want to set the tone as it
45:59
pertains to culture. And people not necessarily be
46:03
not necessarily be someone that knows every little thing X, you
46:07
know, from an exit, X's and O's perspective on HR, on town, on
46:12
people, on culture, things of that nature.
46:14
So, before I give you, my thing that I did, do that I stole from
46:19
them, that I can apply, what are your quick thoughts on that
46:21
Hill, garyvee called things? I don't think a lot of people
46:24
know that story actually, Yeah, no, thanks for sharing.
46:27
I didn't know that story, but I have been following Gary for a
46:30
while, and it's so interesting because, yeah, I think he's like
46:33
the king of content. Like, there's just so much great
46:35
content that him and his team put out there, and it's ironic
46:38
because and, you know, when I see quotes from him or, you
46:42
know, little clips from him, it's like, verbatim like exactly
46:46
how I operate and I'm not saying, well, I took it from
46:48
someone, but for me, it's very anecdotal because I as a sounds
46:53
horrible, but I just never really had great.
46:56
Managers. So I knew the moment that I
46:58
became a people manager, I will be like I will be damn good at
47:02
this job and I was that's the one thing I would say with pride
47:05
that I really really excel at and so for me I saw
47:09
automatically every team I inherited every team I built,
47:13
you know, business performance results.
47:15
Went through the roof but it's because I put people and culture
47:18
first, that's how I always have operated.
47:20
So that's really at the heart of diverse shal to is what we want
47:24
to be able to scale those You know, practices and so other
47:28
organizations can understand and read the benefits as well.
47:32
So, in agreeance with you, for sure 100%.
47:35
So so I say all that to say what idea that I stole from them
47:39
early on, in my head of people career that was connected to
47:43
compensation. They would have these
47:45
one-on-ones where he pretty much broke down and like a content
47:50
from, because he would share this like, when his podcast
47:52
would he would do. He would said he said I
47:54
sensually. We would have Claude and other
47:57
HR, team member just sit down with each individual employee
48:01
and say, tell me about what you actually need.
48:05
And he will pretty much share this framework, that everyone's
48:08
in a different stage. He would say, some people are
48:11
just getting married and are looking to buy a house in the
48:13
next few years. So you need more money to do
48:15
that. Some people are just fine being
48:17
in their one-bedroom apartment in New York.
48:19
That's small. Some people have a ton of
48:21
roommate, some people come from family money.
48:23
Some people are very fruity. One has different desires,
48:27
professionally and financially in and what he would say is if
48:33
anyone ever came to him or call or any of the other leaders and
48:36
said, we need, I need to make more money because x y z.
48:39
He wouldn't do the traditional model that most companies do and
48:42
say, well, right now, we don't have another role for you to
48:45
kind of move into will let you know.
48:48
You know at the end of the year what that looks like to kind of
48:50
do a little bit of a salary bump and increase we would actually
48:53
do, is he allocated a certain amount of financing?
48:55
Isis and budget that he would that he would call special
48:59
projects and he would have special projects in every single
49:02
department. So if anyone ever came to them
49:04
and said, hey look, I'm looking to make more money with my role,
49:09
and here are my reasons. Here's my personal desires.
49:11
He like, great, well, the marketing team that your own
49:15
right now. They are the here are these
49:17
11:53 special projects and here, the finances that are connected
49:22
to these special projects and if you want to apply to work with,
49:26
These, it's always kind of like a Marketplace of all these
49:28
special prizes you can work on and make more money.
49:30
So that was like, the closest thing that I found to like
49:33
meeting an employee where they are as it pertains to finances.
49:36
What are your as someone with a financial background?
49:39
And so what I cares about culture as well, what are your
49:41
thoughts on that kind of design? Yeah, no, I love that concept.
49:45
But I would once I would say and this is where it's going to
49:48
depend for some people. Yes, it may be finances, but you
49:52
are seeing some, you know, large Fortune 100 company.
49:55
He's do that because the way the talent Marketplace is going to
49:59
be set up in the future is project-based.
50:01
That's why when I was talking about earlier that people should
50:04
match career, mapping to skill sets.
50:07
That's where its leading to is project-based work.
50:10
It's no longer, you know, positions and titles, in my
50:12
opinion, eventually will kind of get eliminated.
50:15
Right? So, so I'm a huge fan of that
50:18
because for some people, yes, it'll be Financial incentives.
50:21
But for some people like, I was always motivated by like
50:25
challenges. And solving problems because I
50:27
like doing stimulating work. So if I could work on something
50:30
that I could be like oh my God, let me try to see if I can help
50:33
solve this problem. Like I will put my hand up
50:35
because I want to gain new skills and learn new things,
50:37
right? So I think just having these
50:40
kind of options that organizations once again to
50:44
you're saying is yeah people culture.
50:47
It just it's so impactful. Yeah, 100% we'll look I really
50:53
appreciated. This is pretty fun.
50:55
You know, I'm really enjoying some of these conversations I've
50:58
been having and I'm really enjoying getting back in the
51:00
swing of just having other people on his podcast.
51:03
You know I've done. I've done 700-plus episodes.
51:06
There's like 300 plus interviews with four new was a long stretch
51:09
of time. We are.
51:10
I didn't have interviews and it was me kind of just hopped on
51:13
the mic here for 10, 15, 20 minutes, and just sharing some
51:16
thoughts, but I really appreciate you personally, I
51:20
appreciate your trust and having me work with the company.
51:23
I appreciate you know, are On friendship and I'm excited for
51:28
for this year to come. So, you know, just plug anything
51:31
you want to plug, share any last thoughts.
51:33
And I'll let you get out of here.
51:37
No sounds good. And yeah, the feeling is mutual.
51:40
I'm looking forward to hit the ground running in 2023.
51:44
I think, you know there, even though there's a lot of
51:47
uncertainty out there, I feel like this is where we're going
51:49
to make some big moves and you will be definitely a part of the
51:53
journey. And and I think, you know, I
51:55
appreciate you asking me to join you today.
51:58
I hope we get an opportunity to do more of this.
52:00
I think we share similar perspectives and insights and I
52:04
think the more awareness that we can Create around these topics I
52:08
think is just going to be so helpful for you know, people and
52:12
HR leaders div leaders people leaders and talent leaders in
52:16
organizations thousand percent. Well thank you so much, any any
52:21
plugs you want to give any anything you want people to kind
52:24
of tune into? Yeah, if I would say just follow
52:27
us on LinkedIn diver so that's diver79 AAL.
52:32
We're always putting out some interesting content and Like we
52:37
just put our 2020 to rewind. Will put some predictions up
52:40
there for 2023 and I can promise you're going to find like really
52:44
original pieces that you won't find anywhere else 100%.
52:47
And I know we haven't completely finalize all the details, but
52:51
there should or could or will be a diver social ongoing segments
52:56
within this podcast. Hopefully, in 2023 doing the
53:01
first during the first quarter, you know, it's something you and
53:03
I chatted about, I think it'll be fun.
53:05
I think it would be exciting and Hopefully that will be, that
53:08
will be coming here soon. So so thank you so much.
53:11
It was an honor and we'll talk soon.
53:13
Okay, thank you. Hopefully that will be, that
53:08
will be coming here soon. So so thank you so much.
53:11
It was an honor and we'll talk soon.
53:13
Okay, thank you.