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FAKE NFL PLAYER: WHEN CATFISHING BECOMES A CRIME · Judgement Call

0:00
SPEAKER_11: So is let me ask you a question.
0:01
SPEAKER_11: You gotta be honest.
0:02
SPEAKER_11: All right, I'll be honest.
0:04
SPEAKER_11: Has anybody ever slid into your DMs and you had the urge to slide back?
0:11
SPEAKER_11: I mean, anybody catch your your attention?
0:13
SPEAKER_12: Listen, listen, there's a lot out there.
0:15
SPEAKER_12: Yes, and yes.
0:17
SPEAKER_12: Now, here's the problem.
0:20
SPEAKER_12: All righty.
0:20
SPEAKER_12: It's kind of like trick-or-treating.
0:24
SPEAKER_12: And you don't know if it's a trick or treat.
0:26
SPEAKER_12: You don't know which house has got the good candy and which house has got the candy corn.
0:30
SPEAKER_12: You know what I mean?
0:31
SPEAKER_11: So it's just I have looked, but have never had the urge to sling back.
0:38
SPEAKER_11: But I've been married forever.
0:40
SPEAKER_11: And then, you know, after I lost him, there were people that were creeping in, but you know, you know.
0:45
SPEAKER_11: Of course.
0:45
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
0:46
SPEAKER_11: But but some people are persistent and amazingly dramatic in that.
0:50
SPEAKER_12: And they they really are.
0:52
SPEAKER_12: Now, so if you if the DM back and forth, if if that tennis match goes well, and then you try to take the thing offline into real life, that's where we run into problems because everything objects in mirror may not be as they really appear.
1:10
SPEAKER_11: And you said something interesting, going off platform, because we're gonna be talking about people today who are catfishing folks, and they take you off platform as soon as they can so they can they can isolate you and get you going.
1:24
SPEAKER_08: Judgment call.
1:26
SPEAKER_04: Hey bro, you pay for the 49ers?
1:29
SPEAKER_04: Oh, are you supposed to be like in camp or something else?
1:31
SPEAKER_04: No, camp is only for the niggas who need practice.
1:33
SPEAKER_04: We like to call people who not in in the league.
1:35
SPEAKER_04: We like to call y'all some deals.
1:37
SPEAKER_04: Just gonna go ahead and show you.
1:38
SPEAKER_04: Like, that's my game day helmet.
1:40
SPEAKER_04: It's a Rolls Royce.
1:41
SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm driving this.
1:42
SPEAKER_04: I originally was gonna be on Campbell Bay.
1:45
SPEAKER_04: A Rolls and a Roll.
1:45
SPEAKER_04: A Rolls and a Rolls.
1:47
SPEAKER_04: I have more of a chance to go to Super Bowl, but we can offer you more money.
1:54
SPEAKER_04: No, it's the nine is game, baby.
1:57
SPEAKER_04: Who is me?
1:58
SPEAKER_04: Nigga, I'm C B L E Double K.
2:00
SPEAKER_04: Get out on my kind of chase.
2:02
SPEAKER_04: Money, nigga.
2:03
SPEAKER_04: Every day, I'm playing.
2:04
SPEAKER_04: Strictly by my pink little break, get out of my now.
2:06
SPEAKER_11: He's working out with the chain on.
2:09
SPEAKER_11: He's pulling weight with a chain on.
2:12
SPEAKER_11: Now who's he trying to impress there?
2:14
SPEAKER_04: Doing day for day, feel it tape, my nigga in the fair.
2:21
SPEAKER_11: I think we've seen all we need to see.
2:24
SPEAKER_12: Madison, thank you.
2:25
SPEAKER_12: Ladies and gentlemen, I give you for the phenomenon known as Dejan Love.
2:32
SPEAKER_11: And what blows my mind, and I guess, I guess, I guess the point is this.
2:39
SPEAKER_11: How do you get to a place where you believe that?
2:42
SPEAKER_11: I mean, I've known some some some uh professional football players.
2:46
SPEAKER_11: Right.
2:46
SPEAKER_11: They never ran around with their helmet.
2:48
SPEAKER_11: Everywhere.
2:49
SPEAKER_11: Everywhere they went.
2:50
SPEAKER_11: They weren't with their helmet on the basket.
2:53
SPEAKER_11: And it was so well put together.
2:55
SPEAKER_11: First of all, let's talk about how much he did.
2:58
SPEAKER_12: He did a lot, Judge.
3:00
SPEAKER_12: He did a whole lot.
3:02
SPEAKER_12: He created a whole persona, right?
3:04
SPEAKER_12: Everything was full paraphernalia.
3:08
SPEAKER_12: He tried to adopt what he thinks is a professional athlete's mentality, the way they would talk, right?
3:14
SPEAKER_12: What that conversation would be.
3:16
SPEAKER_11: And his and his tapes are well put together.
3:19
SPEAKER_11: I mean, they're not just slapped together.
3:21
SPEAKER_11: Somebody has spent some money and some stuff.
3:24
SPEAKER_12: I'm working out on the beach.
3:25
SPEAKER_12: I'm working out uh on a football field.
3:27
SPEAKER_12: And so there was a there was a conscious decision for this to be the direction we're gonna go in.
3:35
SPEAKER_11: I understand women getting interested and excited about it.
3:38
SPEAKER_11: I understand that.
3:40
SPEAKER_11: How do they get money?
3:42
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
3:43
SPEAKER_11: You you you can you can be real nice to me, yeah, but the minute you ask for money, my attitude changes.
3:49
SPEAKER_11: Right.
3:50
SPEAKER_11: Talk to me about that process from I'm intrigued to I'm writing a check.
3:56
SPEAKER_12: Well, I think we gotta understand the moment in which we are living in.
4:01
SPEAKER_12: Are you familiar with Young Miami?
4:04
SPEAKER_12: No, I am not familiar with that.
4:06
SPEAKER_12: Young Miami had the song of the summer.
4:08
SPEAKER_12: Young lady had a rap song, kind of RB-ish, reminds you a little old school.
4:12
SPEAKER_12: It's called Spend That, right?
4:14
SPEAKER_12: It's called Spend That.
4:16
SPEAKER_12: She's saying, Where are all my scamming?
4:19
SPEAKER_12: Mm-mm, eh.
4:21
SPEAKER_12: Spend that money fast.
4:23
SPEAKER_12: 2050s, hundreds cash.
4:26
SPEAKER_12: Boy, golden that go yard bag.
4:29
SPEAKER_12: Spend that stuff.
4:32
SPEAKER_12: This is she's singing about scamming, right?
4:36
SPEAKER_12: Because life is hard.
4:39
SPEAKER_12: Doing it the legitimate way takes time.
4:41
SPEAKER_12: Right.
4:42
SPEAKER_12: And that is not where we are as young people.
4:44
SPEAKER_12: We don't have time because Instagram never shuts down.
4:48
SPEAKER_12: So if we can get it the scammy way, get it the scammy way and spend it.
4:52
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
4:53
SPEAKER_11: And technology allows it to be so much easier.
4:56
SPEAKER_11: I can touch anyone anywhere around the world.
4:58
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
4:59
SPEAKER_11: And I can I can present any image.
5:01
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
5:02
SPEAKER_11: And what I I believe happens is, you know, they get the vulnerable and the gullible and the lonely because they want to believe.
5:11
SPEAKER_12: That's right.
5:12
SPEAKER_12: That's right.
5:13
SPEAKER_12: They want to believe.
5:14
SPEAKER_12: Well, it's a sign of a good grift, right?
5:16
SPEAKER_12: If you're talking about a grift and a confidence person, it's not random.
5:20
SPEAKER_12: They're no random targets.
5:22
SPEAKER_12: It's a targeted thing.
5:23
SPEAKER_12: We're offering you what you want.
5:25
SPEAKER_12: Is she lonely?
5:26
SPEAKER_12: Let's offer her companionship.
5:27
SPEAKER_12: Does she is she looking to upgrade her life?
5:30
SPEAKER_12: Is she struggling?
5:31
SPEAKER_12: Let's let's dangle that carrot of money out there, right?
5:34
SPEAKER_12: Whatever the thing is you want, then they craft it.
5:36
SPEAKER_12: Right.
5:37
SPEAKER_12: And they're not going after a hundred random people.
5:39
SPEAKER_12: They're looking at a hundred and they're identifying the 10.
5:42
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
5:43
SPEAKER_12: Because once we find the right 10, then we can stretch that out for as long as we want.
5:47
SPEAKER_11: And those who go for the long cons, and this is the long con.
5:51
SPEAKER_11: Because you're taking your time to be invested and secure.
5:55
SPEAKER_11: They're very good at listening.
5:56
SPEAKER_11: Yes.
5:57
SPEAKER_11: You know, sometimes I would like to sit down with one and listen to him listen to me because they have to figure out what it is, the way into your where where you're weak.
6:06
SPEAKER_11: And yet they have to feed that particular week to get to you.
6:11
SPEAKER_11: And I believe the young man is finished with this now, is he not?
6:15
SPEAKER_12: He is completely finished as he sits watching us on this podcast from his jail cell.
6:23
SPEAKER_12: So what he did was, right, he helped, he helped build the dream, right?
6:26
SPEAKER_12: As you're, like you said, he's a good listener.
6:29
SPEAKER_12: And as he's talking, here's what I'm doing.
6:31
SPEAKER_12: You know, well, I'm I'm doing this and I'm about to sign this contract and I have this house, bling bling.
6:36
SPEAKER_12: You're gonna be staying in that house with me.
6:38
SPEAKER_12: I'm gonna be moving here, I'm gonna be doing this thing.
6:40
SPEAKER_12: And so in her mind, it's like, oh yeah, okay, I can I can see where I can fit into this dream.
6:46
SPEAKER_12: Now, the diabolical part about Mr.
6:48
SPEAKER_12: Love was he had requirements for you, right?
6:52
SPEAKER_12: He was like, I'm I'm financially literate and I'm looking for someone who's the same.
6:56
SPEAKER_12: So I know it's an odd question, but if you don't mind telling me what is your credit score.
7:02
SPEAKER_11: And that added to his credibility.
7:04
SPEAKER_11: And in in in certain people's minds, that would add to his credibility because he is a man that understands money and doesn't want to deal with just some random chick off the street with a credit score of seven.
7:15
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
7:16
SPEAKER_11: So so they do that.
7:17
SPEAKER_11: The last thing I want to do is talk about how you look out for that kind of thing.
7:22
SPEAKER_11: Too much, too soon, too fast, too.
7:27
SPEAKER_11: A lot a lot of that.
7:29
SPEAKER_11: Yeah, I love you so much, don't know you that well.
7:33
SPEAKER_12: Right.
7:33
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, yeah.
7:34
SPEAKER_12: I I don't know because again, it's it's things happen fast now, right?
7:39
SPEAKER_12: Things are happening so fast.
7:40
SPEAKER_12: So I think uh the old adage, the old cliche is true for a reason.
7:44
SPEAKER_12: If it looks too good to be true, it is, and it just is, yeah, you know, and so you gotta take your time with that.
7:51
SPEAKER_12: Um, but what he did was uh here's my question back to you.
7:55
SPEAKER_12: You start with the DMs, and then this thing looks really, really juicy and almost too good to be true.
8:00
SPEAKER_12: But now the rich guy's asking me for money.
8:04
SPEAKER_11: That's the term, right?
8:06
SPEAKER_11: But they always have some tremendous it just it just for this moment, you got it, I don't have access.
8:11
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
8:12
SPEAKER_11: Just give me this little more, and it'll free all my money up.
8:16
SPEAKER_11: And that's extraordinary to me how that works.
8:19
SPEAKER_11: But I'm tight with a dollar, so I don't know.
8:21
SPEAKER_11: And I'm not terribly romantic.
8:23
SPEAKER_12: So you know so you're you are what they call a bad target.
8:28
SPEAKER_12: Exactly.
8:28
SPEAKER_11: They would move right back.
8:30
SPEAKER_11: Right?
8:30
SPEAKER_12: They would move right back.
8:31
SPEAKER_12: But if we think it's not just relationships, think of every uh stockbroker Ponzi scheme.
8:36
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
8:37
SPEAKER_12: Right?
8:37
SPEAKER_12: Think of some of our politicians who are out there making all these properties.
8:42
SPEAKER_11: Money made off would would would beg you, get you to beg him to take your money.
8:47
SPEAKER_11: Got it.
8:48
SPEAKER_11: Because he had that gift of gab.
8:50
SPEAKER_11: He had the gift of gab.
8:51
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
8:52
SPEAKER_11: What people were, and people say, if I can't get in it, if it's hard to get in, I want to get in that much more, and I won't be that judgmental.
8:58
SPEAKER_12: The rarity.
8:59
SPEAKER_12: Yes.
9:00
SPEAKER_12: It's a rare thing, and I came to you because you're special.
9:03
SPEAKER_12: Now, and if you're as smart as I think you are, you're gonna jump on this.
9:07
SPEAKER_12: You're gonna jump on this.
9:08
SPEAKER_12: Right.
9:08
SPEAKER_12: And I don't give this to everybody.
9:09
SPEAKER_12: That's right.
9:09
SPEAKER_12: This is this is your special.
9:11
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
9:11
SPEAKER_12: I live in South Florida.
9:12
SPEAKER_12: Every month, there's a new developer who's getting arrested because they were selling a whole bunch of condos that weren't there.
9:19
SPEAKER_12: And they ain't got no condos.
9:21
SPEAKER_11: There you go.
9:22
SPEAKER_11: It's it's a very, and in this day and age when we're so interested in comparisons and everything's online and everything's, you know, keeping up with the Joneses and all that kind of stuff.
9:32
SPEAKER_11: That's an old phrase, but it is newly, it's newly engaged in a in a tremendously, I'm not sure.
9:39
SPEAKER_11: It's turbocharged virulent way.
9:41
SPEAKER_12: It's turbocharged, it's supercharged.
9:44
SPEAKER_12: And so I don't know, you know, um that's a why is he let me ask you this, Judge.
9:48
SPEAKER_12: Why is teeth so white?
9:51
SPEAKER_11: Well, you can buy a lot of whitening strips with all that money he's got.
9:54
SPEAKER_12: The 49ers have an excellent dental program.
9:57
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, they did, they did.
9:59
SPEAKER_12: So um, so as of as of today, Dejahn Love has been arrested, him and his partner, who his friend, who they were, you know, they had their financial team.
10:09
SPEAKER_12: And so now there's a whole lot of Rico stuff, the financial charges.
10:13
SPEAKER_12: So um he has already been judged.
10:16
SPEAKER_11: Yes, he has been judged, and so so we don't need to do it again, but judgment called against him.
10:23
SPEAKER_12: I feel bad for the ladies, you know.
10:26
SPEAKER_12: I do.
10:26
SPEAKER_12: Um because the money he was asking for 1.3 million total, 10 grand, 15 grand, those are sums that are hard to come by.
10:33
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
10:34
SPEAKER_12: You know, yeah.
10:35
SPEAKER_11: And those women needed that money, and it it just and once it's gone, it's gone because it's been spent.
10:40
SPEAKER_11: You got it.
10:41
SPEAKER_11: You got another one for us, Madison?
10:43
SPEAKER_06: All right, guys, I have something exciting for you.
10:46
SPEAKER_06: We got the follow-up on Dejaon Love.
10:48
SPEAKER_10: Did he get traded to the Cowboys?
10:50
SPEAKER_10: And like you have money.
10:51
SPEAKER_10: That is commitment.
10:52
SPEAKER_10: That is commitment.
10:53
SPEAKER_09: Rachel Anderson says she met 35-year-old Dajan Love on the dating app Bumble in June 2024.
11:00
SPEAKER_09: He told her his name was John Prince and that he was a Swiss real estate developer.
11:05
SPEAKER_09: During their first date, Anderson says something felt off.
11:09
SPEAKER_10: He said I'm very intentional and efficient when it comes to dating.
11:14
SPEAKER_10: And if I pursue you, you will be the only one that I pursue.
11:19
SPEAKER_10: Um, I need someone who has been around money who understands that you know these things aren't luxuries to me.
11:27
SPEAKER_10: This is just my normal life.
11:28
SPEAKER_10: And within five minutes, I decided I wasn't gonna see him again.
11:32
SPEAKER_09: Love was arrested by the FBI last week, accused of conning more than two dozen women in Oregon, Washington, California, and Idaho out of$1.3 million.
11:42
SPEAKER_09: Investigators say he posed as an NFL player and real estate investor and worked with an alleged 18-year-old accomplice, Taylor Chan.
11:51
SPEAKER_12: I'm not an African prince, but my last name is Prince.
11:57
SPEAKER_12: Ooh.
12:01
SPEAKER_12: The imagination.
12:02
SPEAKER_12: You know, there's some psychological things where you have a um uh where you no longer recognize your family and you think they're all strangers.
12:10
SPEAKER_12: That's like a specific uh kind of amnesia, sort of exactly.
12:14
SPEAKER_12: It's a specific thing where it's uh I forget what they call it.
12:17
SPEAKER_12: There's two where you think they're strangers or you think you yourself is somebody different.
12:22
SPEAKER_12: And that's a that's a true thing.
12:23
SPEAKER_12: There's that fugue state.
12:25
SPEAKER_12: Where some folks will just leave for months or years on end and then kind of come back, adopt a whole nother life and come back.
12:31
SPEAKER_12: But Aijon ain't in no fugue state.
12:34
SPEAKER_12: He is not in a fugue state.
12:36
SPEAKER_08: He is not.
12:38
SPEAKER_08: Judgment call.
12:41
SPEAKER_01: Was a wealthy widow just fleeced by a male escort for a jaw-dropping six million dollars?
12:48
SPEAKER_01: Here's Anne Ricagliano.
12:50
SPEAKER_05: A grieving and wealthy widow says she was scammed out of six million dollars by a professional male escort, who she says is a real-life American jigglope.
13:01
SPEAKER_07: This was a systematic shakedown of a vulnerable widow.
13:05
SPEAKER_05: Marianne Flippo is the widow of the creator of Roblox, a popular gaming platform.
13:10
SPEAKER_05: Her husband died in 2024, and she says she hired this guy, 38-year-old Greg Starr, to be her companion on a trip to Italy.
13:19
SPEAKER_05: She found Starr through the escort agency Cowboys for Angels, which offers clients a perfect boyfriend experience with no strings attached.
13:28
SPEAKER_05: The same escort agency provided men for Sean Combs' notorious freak-off parties with his ex-girlfriend.
13:35
SPEAKER_05: Starr is a striking silver-haired male model with ice blue eyes.
13:39
SPEAKER_05: He claims to be a West Point graduate who served in the elite Army Rangers.
13:44
SPEAKER_07: We continued to date for a bit, and then, yes, uh, we did develop a relationship, and um, we started spending more time together, and it got really messy.
13:55
SPEAKER_07: Were you paying for the dating?
13:57
SPEAKER_05: She says she paid a total of$500,000 to be Starr's only client.
14:03
SPEAKER_05: Marianne says despite the background as a giggle, she became infatuated with Greg Starr.
14:09
SPEAKER_05: She even decided to start a brand new life with him, buying this magnificent$16 million Manhattan mansion straight out of the Gilded Age.
14:19
SPEAKER_07: While he was living with me, he was working as an escort, and I told him, I said, This isn't working for me.
14:24
SPEAKER_07: I said, I can't do this.
14:26
SPEAKER_05: Marianne says at that point, Starr persuaded her to buy out his contract with the escort agency for 10 million dollars.
14:34
SPEAKER_05: She even signed an exit contract.
14:37
SPEAKER_05: After she handed over six million dollars, her bank and family members intervened.
14:42
SPEAKER_00: I said to him, You are nothing more than a common criminal.
14:46
SPEAKER_00: This is over.
14:47
SPEAKER_05: Now Marion says she believes she was scammed and is suing Star, demanding her money back.
14:54
SPEAKER_07: Were you in love with him?
14:55
SPEAKER_07: The person who Greg really is?
14:58
SPEAKER_07: Absolutely not.
14:59
SPEAKER_07: No way.
15:01
SPEAKER_07: I was in love with someone that didn't exist.
15:05
SPEAKER_11: I'm gonna say this.
15:08
SPEAKER_11: I'll both say this before that.
15:10
SPEAKER_11: I feel a little less sorry for her than others.
15:13
SPEAKER_11: Because she knew he was a jiggle.
15:16
SPEAKER_11: She was paying for services rendered.
15:18
SPEAKER_11: Sure.
15:19
SPEAKER_11: So you you have to know from the giddy up that's what you're doing.
15:23
SPEAKER_11: Now that, oh, I've fallen so much in love with you.
15:27
SPEAKER_11: I mean, he did lie to her.
15:28
SPEAKER_11: I'm sure he did tell her all the things that are wrong and all of that.
15:32
SPEAKER_11: But you would expect that you are paying for someone who pretends to love you for money.
15:38
SPEAKER_11: And you're not, you know what I mean?
15:40
SPEAKER_12: It's hard, Judge.
15:41
SPEAKER_12: So, okay, okay.
15:42
SPEAKER_12: So, so but so by your logic, you're also saying that a stripper couldn't fall in love with me.
15:52
SPEAKER_12: Don't shatter, don't shatter my dreams today.
15:56
SPEAKER_12: I love you, Dr.
15:57
SPEAKER_11: Edge.
15:58
SPEAKER_11: I do.
15:59
SPEAKER_11: But be careful when the stripper comes off the poll and tells you you're the one.
16:05
SPEAKER_11: Just be careful of that.
16:07
SPEAKER_12: Listen, Judge, Greg Starr up there looking like Victor Newman's cousin.
16:11
SPEAKER_12: He's a good looking dude.
16:13
SPEAKER_11: It's a good looking man.
16:14
SPEAKER_11: It's a good looking man.
16:15
SPEAKER_11: And if it if it was, if the tables were turning, she was a dude, right?
16:20
SPEAKER_11: And and she decided to retire a woman off, nobody would have a problem with that.
16:24
SPEAKER_12: Nobody would bat an eyelash.
16:26
SPEAKER_12: No would be a pretty woman.
16:28
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
16:28
SPEAKER_12: Right?
16:30
SPEAKER_11: They make a movie about it.
16:31
SPEAKER_12: They made a movie about it, right?
16:32
SPEAKER_12: Academy award-winning movie because uh, and so the the gender difference here, I think, is what got everybody shocked.
16:38
SPEAKER_12: Right.
16:39
SPEAKER_11: Um, but then taking that 10 minutes.
16:42
SPEAKER_11: I don't know.
16:43
SPEAKER_11: Right.
16:43
SPEAKER_11: It's good to have friends and family.
16:46
SPEAKER_11: And if you you if you if you feel like you can't tell your friends and family exactly what you're doing, you know it's not cool.
16:56
SPEAKER_11: She had to find she found somebody who knew buying him out of a gigolo contract doesn't make any sense.
17:03
SPEAKER_12: Who's her pull-up person?
17:05
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
17:05
SPEAKER_12: It's like, hey girl, you know what?
17:06
SPEAKER_12: Tell me that story again, girl.
17:08
SPEAKER_12: What's that now with?
17:09
SPEAKER_12: Tell me that one more time.
17:10
SPEAKER_12: Who's that?
17:11
SPEAKER_12: You've gotta have a sounding board and not the peanut gallery who's just helping you do whatever it is you think you want to do.
17:22
SPEAKER_11: Right?
17:23
SPEAKER_11: You call me.
17:25
SPEAKER_12: So you're paying 500 grand for exclusivity, right?
17:28
SPEAKER_12: Now I don't I don't want you to see anybody else.
17:30
SPEAKER_12: Well, and and it's the game.
17:32
SPEAKER_12: Okay, but I can I can be all yours, but you gotta be ready to replace that income I'm missing.
17:37
SPEAKER_12: And so that's the first thing.
17:38
SPEAKER_12: Now you're gonna buy out my whole entire contract for 10 million and a 16 million dollar crib in Manhattan.
17:46
SPEAKER_12: Yes, I wish I might.
17:48
SPEAKER_11: I I and and I guess my my thing is you gotta believe the truth of the matter.
17:57
SPEAKER_11: And the truth of the matter is this is not Hollywood, right?
18:00
SPEAKER_11: You know, a super rich guy doesn't meet a super pretty woman, and it's because it's the deepest love in the world.
18:07
SPEAKER_11: It can become that.
18:07
SPEAKER_11: It can become that.
18:08
SPEAKER_11: It can become that, it could be, but it's rare.
18:11
SPEAKER_11: And she has to remember the position she's in.
18:14
SPEAKER_11: I know when people were dipping in my emails, oh, you're so beautiful, and I don't look that good at it anymore.
18:21
SPEAKER_11: My bank account's okay, but I'm not, I know what you're looking for.
18:25
SPEAKER_12: Right.
18:26
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, as as the folks on TikTok say they're looking for that soft life.
18:30
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, right.
18:31
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
18:31
SPEAKER_11: And I get that because I'm an old lady.
18:34
SPEAKER_11: What you want with me?
18:36
SPEAKER_11: So I I I feel bad for her.
18:39
SPEAKER_11: I do.
18:39
SPEAKER_11: She will.
18:39
SPEAKER_12: I feel bad for her because he's taking advantage of her loneliness.
18:44
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, right.
18:44
SPEAKER_12: Right?
18:45
SPEAKER_12: She lost her husband, they had a good thing.
18:47
SPEAKER_12: Roadblocks is, I don't, of every child I see uh in my clinic, not one does not have roadblocks, is not playing it all day, every day.
18:55
SPEAKER_12: So it's a super popular platform.
18:57
SPEAKER_12: So she's got a ton of money.
18:59
SPEAKER_12: Right.
18:59
SPEAKER_12: Right?
19:00
SPEAKER_11: And that widow hole is deep.
19:03
SPEAKER_11: It's hard.
19:04
SPEAKER_11: It's deep, it's dark.
19:05
SPEAKER_11: And if you've been with somebody for so long, every hour, every minute of your day, you weren't together, but you were together in some way, shape, or form.
19:12
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
19:13
SPEAKER_11: And it's just uh it can be a dark place and any light.
19:16
SPEAKER_12: That's and that that's the twisted part, you know, because you you know her history and you're intentionally taking advantage of that.
19:25
SPEAKER_12: That that's the icky part.
19:26
SPEAKER_11: I mean, judgment call for her.
19:28
SPEAKER_11: She knows he's the jerk.
19:29
SPEAKER_11: No doubt about it, no question about it, whatever.
19:32
SPEAKER_11: I just I wanted to note that she had a uh a leg up on the information and she should have used it.
19:40
SPEAKER_12: Right.
19:40
SPEAKER_12: Well, uh again, so I've got a dear friend who always talks about the three-foot view and then the 30,000-foot view.
19:47
SPEAKER_12: Right?
19:47
SPEAKER_12: When Victor Newman cousin is staring at you three feet across the table, telling you how much he loves you, it's it's hard not to get lost in those you know, in that silver hair and those blue eyes, but the 30,000 foot view, right?
20:02
SPEAKER_12: Who is he and who am?
20:03
SPEAKER_12: Who am I?
20:04
SPEAKER_12: Who am I?
20:04
SPEAKER_12: And why why should this does this make sense?
20:08
SPEAKER_12: Right.
20:09
SPEAKER_12: Right.
20:09
SPEAKER_12: As I look at it, right?
20:10
SPEAKER_12: Now listen, your love doesn't have to make sense to anybody but you.
20:14
SPEAKER_12: But does this make sense?
20:15
SPEAKER_11: Doesn't this make sense?
20:16
SPEAKER_11: And and because he did what he did, and and he said he did what he did, he knows how to make any woman feel good.
20:22
SPEAKER_11: That's what he's getting paid for.
20:24
SPEAKER_11: That's his job, that's his gig.
20:26
SPEAKER_11: So, to the extent that you believe it's different with you, is the part that I guess that's where you're weak and you're lonely and you're a widow, and where you can fall, because that that that widow dark ain't nothing quite like it.
20:41
SPEAKER_12: I can't imagine it.
20:42
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, I can't imagine it.
20:43
SPEAKER_11: Especially if they had been together any number of years.
20:46
SPEAKER_11: It's like you you're a four-legged table with three legs, and you don't quite know how to stand up.
20:51
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
20:52
SPEAKER_12: And I don't I don't think there's any time frame for where you feel like you find your footing again.
20:58
SPEAKER_11: No.
20:58
SPEAKER_11: So uh he's a jerk.
21:01
SPEAKER_11: Uh, and I wish her the best.
21:03
SPEAKER_12: I do, I do, for sure.
21:05
SPEAKER_12: But uh Black Victor Newman.
21:07
SPEAKER_11: He did love Black Victor Newman, though.
21:11
SPEAKER_08: Judgment call.
21:14
SPEAKER_06: Am I the asshole for catfishing my husband during a very rough period of our marriage?
21:21
SPEAKER_06: My husband and I have been in a rough patch for over a year for a variety of reasons.
21:27
SPEAKER_06: Mainly, I feel he doesn't help enough with the kids, and he's been cheeky with women online, and I find that inappropriate.
21:35
SPEAKER_06: Six months ago, after we had been fighting, I texted him from a burner number pretending to be a girl he worked with over 15 years ago.
21:44
SPEAKER_06: And then she writes this they had never dated and were hardly even friends.
21:48
SPEAKER_06: We will call the catfish named Sarah and his name Mel.
21:52
SPEAKER_06: My initial text to him was platonic.
21:55
SPEAKER_06: Just, hey, how are you?
21:56
SPEAKER_06: Just wondering how you're doing.
21:58
SPEAKER_06: He immediately responds.
22:00
SPEAKER_06: And she slash I asked him out.
22:05
SPEAKER_06: He said he can't, but would be open to it in the future.
22:09
SPEAKER_06: He shared that he was unhappy in the marriage and needed to get divorced before there were any dates that could happen.
22:17
SPEAKER_12: Integrity.
22:19
SPEAKER_12: Of a kind.
22:21
SPEAKER_11: Of a kind.
22:22
SPEAKER_06: He and I continued to try to repair our relationship.
22:25
SPEAKER_06: I would test him out of the blue as Sarah, and he almost always replied.
22:30
SPEAKER_06: In May, he said he wanted to sleep with Sarah, wanted to meet up, wanted to get divorced, was going to buy her a hotel room.
22:37
SPEAKER_06: You get the gist of it.
22:39
SPEAKER_06: It was bad and messy.
22:41
SPEAKER_06: I wanted to come clean about it being me, but I kept stalling and not knowing when or how to say it.
22:47
SPEAKER_06: I felt extreme guilt over it, but every time things would get better, I would just text him to see if he would still be loyal.
22:55
SPEAKER_06: And he never really was.
22:57
SPEAKER_06: I'm fully aware about how toxic and dysfunctional this is.
23:02
SPEAKER_06: I really wanted to test his loyalty.
23:04
SPEAKER_06: Clearly, he failed and made me insane.
23:07
SPEAKER_06: I couldn't stop.
23:09
SPEAKER_06: He eventually found out it was me.
23:11
SPEAKER_06: He pretty much hates me, and I understand why.
23:13
SPEAKER_06: I'm not proud of my behavior, and I'm shocked I even did this.
23:18
SPEAKER_06: I do wish he would take some accountability over his poor responses, but I recognize I'm the one who put him in this position.
23:26
SPEAKER_06: I'm hoping to repair our relationship after this catfishing situation.
23:31
SPEAKER_06: I'm a hundred percent sure I would leave if he was inappropriate.
23:36
SPEAKER_06: I didn't even recognize myself in the mirror.
23:39
SPEAKER_06: Am I the asshole?
23:41
SPEAKER_11: You got two options a conversation and a burner phone.
23:45
SPEAKER_11: She went for the burner phone.
23:48
SPEAKER_12: Right.
23:50
SPEAKER_11: I mean, there there's so much wrong on so many levels.
23:54
SPEAKER_11: But but the thing that concerned her must start with a must be addressed with a conversation.
24:00
SPEAKER_11: I don't know why nobody wants to have a conversation anymore.
24:03
SPEAKER_11: Everybody's going straight to some something on the internet to do something to them or you know post about it, all this kind of stuff.
24:12
SPEAKER_11: Talk to the man.
24:14
SPEAKER_12: Talk word with words?
24:16
SPEAKER_12: Yes, that's what I mean.
24:18
SPEAKER_12: And then they have to listen, yes, and say something back.
24:23
SPEAKER_11: That's what I'm talking about.
24:24
SPEAKER_11: It's it's outlandish, I know.
24:26
SPEAKER_11: Madness.
24:27
SPEAKER_11: Outlandish, I know.
24:29
SPEAKER_11: But how deceitful that thing was that she did.
24:34
SPEAKER_12: Diabolical.
24:35
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
24:35
SPEAKER_12: Diabolical.
24:36
SPEAKER_12: But then again, he fell for it.
24:40
SPEAKER_12: It's like Lucy and Charlie Brown.
24:42
SPEAKER_12: He fell for the every single time.
24:45
SPEAKER_11: Every single time.
24:46
SPEAKER_12: Every single time.
24:46
SPEAKER_12: And listen, here's what I would tell her.
24:48
SPEAKER_12: When you go through your relationships looking for evidence to support your own insecurity, that's all you're ever going to find.
24:52
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
24:53
SPEAKER_12: And she found it every single time.
24:56
SPEAKER_12: You know?
24:57
SPEAKER_12: So that was it.
24:58
SPEAKER_12: The other one couple of things I didn't like that she said was his behavior made me crazy.
25:03
SPEAKER_12: No, it didn't.
25:04
SPEAKER_12: You made you crazy.
25:05
SPEAKER_12: Right?
25:06
SPEAKER_12: Because that's an internal process.
25:07
SPEAKER_12: Right.
25:08
SPEAKER_12: And you were the one, the same mind that is trying to solve that anxious, unfulfilling marriage problem is the same mind you're using to send those text messages.
25:19
SPEAKER_12: You can't solve the same problem with that same mind.
25:22
SPEAKER_12: You just can't do it.
25:22
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
25:23
SPEAKER_12: You know?
25:23
SPEAKER_11: And then on the other hand, we have his completely inappropriate responses to a thread thrown out there from a girlfriend from in the past, 15 years ago, never really.
25:36
SPEAKER_11: Sometimes people do things to entertain themselves.
25:40
SPEAKER_11: That's what I think happened here.
25:41
SPEAKER_11: For sure.
25:42
SPEAKER_11: People do things to entertain themselves.
25:44
SPEAKER_11: Things aren't going well in the marriage.
25:45
SPEAKER_11: Somebody cute just texts.
25:47
SPEAKER_11: You text them back.
25:48
SPEAKER_11: You don't really mean anything by it.
25:50
SPEAKER_11: I still got it.
25:51
SPEAKER_11: I still got it.
25:51
SPEAKER_11: You know, I can I can I can feel better right now by engaging in this conversation.
25:57
SPEAKER_11: And there's a concept known in the law as entrapment.
26:00
SPEAKER_11: If you if if you if you set up a circumstance where somebody who was otherwise law-abiding was was dragged into a criminal activity, like you put a million dollars in front of him, you know, had no reason to think he would do it.
26:16
SPEAKER_11: That's called entrapment.
26:17
SPEAKER_11: Now, I don't know.
26:19
SPEAKER_11: I mean, he took it.
26:20
SPEAKER_11: He was a law-abiding, unhappy husband, minding his business.
26:25
SPEAKER_11: And had she had a conversation with him, they might have been able to resolve something, but it instead, you know, it played to his weakness.
26:32
SPEAKER_11: Right.
26:33
SPEAKER_12: And it's so hard.
26:34
SPEAKER_12: So you're at a you're in a marriage that's no longer fulfilling.
26:37
SPEAKER_12: We don't know the reasons why, but we can imagine it's one of the big three, whether it's communication or you know, combination of a few things.
26:43
SPEAKER_12: But um, it's always it's always interesting that down that gender line, you know, men will traditionally look outside the marriage for the fix first.
26:54
SPEAKER_12: Right.
26:55
SPEAKER_12: Well, I don't know.
26:56
SPEAKER_12: I think the toy is just broken.
26:57
SPEAKER_12: And so I'm gonna go see if this new one works and kind of go from there.
27:02
SPEAKER_12: Whereas women will try, women will exhaust the options within the relationship before they look outside.
27:10
SPEAKER_12: When a woman when a guy's cheating, he's kind of cheating because uh I the the thing is broke and I think it's just gonna be easier to do to get that need met somewhere else.
27:18
SPEAKER_12: When a woman's cheat, she's asked for a change of behavior.
27:22
SPEAKER_12: She has not received what she's wanted, and she is now ready to move forward.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Right.
27:26
SPEAKER_12: And it sounds like what she was trying to do was in her process, she's gathering proof.
27:30
SPEAKER_12: Can we fix this or not?
27:31
SPEAKER_12: Oh right.
27:32
SPEAKER_12: And her sounds like her dividing line was if he took it there to the point where it was going to be a cheat, then that was gonna be her line.
27:39
SPEAKER_12: But since he didn't, she's still in the boat.
27:41
SPEAKER_12: Right.
27:42
SPEAKER_12: And and and with no paddle.
27:44
SPEAKER_12: She's just in the boat.
27:45
SPEAKER_12: And no Let me ask you this.
27:48
SPEAKER_12: She wants to fix it.
27:49
SPEAKER_12: How does she move forward now feeling good about it?
27:53
SPEAKER_11: I have having been that duplicitous of in in the beginning to draw him into a situation that was uncool.
27:59
SPEAKER_11: I mean, I I'm not forgiving him for that.
28:01
SPEAKER_11: No.
28:02
SPEAKER_11: He shouldn't have entertained it.
28:03
SPEAKER_11: He shouldn't have done it at all.
28:04
SPEAKER_11: He shouldn't have blocked her.
28:05
SPEAKER_11: Delete it.
28:06
SPEAKER_11: You know, not uncool.
28:07
SPEAKER_11: Don't even open it, just delete it.
28:08
SPEAKER_11: Just delete it, you know.
28:10
SPEAKER_11: But she did that and she kept it up and she kept she kept pushing it.
28:14
SPEAKER_11: Right.
28:14
SPEAKER_11: And it doesn't give her what she wants, which is a platform from which to approach whatever the problem is.
28:21
SPEAKER_11: It just gives her another hurdle to have to jump.
28:26
SPEAKER_11: Right.
28:26
SPEAKER_12: And with every reply, she's got to feel more and more humiliated.
28:31
SPEAKER_12: More more and more less capable in her relationship.
28:35
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
28:36
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, I don't, I don't know.
28:38
SPEAKER_12: It's like when people start to do things to try to feel better, but with every turn, you feel worse, but you keep doing the thing.
28:43
SPEAKER_11: Keep doing the same thing over and over.
28:46
SPEAKER_11: It just boggles my mind.
28:48
SPEAKER_11: I used to be in divorce court and I said, Well, they were doing the same thing for 20 years.
28:52
SPEAKER_11: I said, Well, why didn't you try doing this?
28:54
SPEAKER_11: And she said, I did that once.
28:58
SPEAKER_11: But it but it didn't work that once.
29:00
SPEAKER_11: I'm going back to the thing I've done 20 for 20 years.
29:03
SPEAKER_11: Like it's like, maybe you should just keep trying new things till you find something.
29:09
SPEAKER_12: Well, people always choose familiarity over functionality.
29:12
SPEAKER_12: Right.
29:12
SPEAKER_12: Right?
29:12
SPEAKER_12: This is it feels it doesn't feel great, but I know how to get through that day in an awkward marriage.
29:17
SPEAKER_11: People don't like be uncertainty.
29:19
SPEAKER_11: Makes people uncomfortable.
29:20
SPEAKER_11: And people do not like to be uncomfortable.
29:22
SPEAKER_11: More emotional labor.
29:23
SPEAKER_11: We don't want to do it.
29:24
SPEAKER_11: Nope.
29:24
SPEAKER_11: Devil you know, better than the one you don't.
29:26
SPEAKER_11: So anyway, they both wrong.
29:28
SPEAKER_12: Just McCall for Yeah, they're both wrong.
29:32
SPEAKER_12: They're both wrong.
29:33
SPEAKER_11: I think he got pulled into something.
29:34
SPEAKER_11: I think the judgment he got in trapped.
29:37
SPEAKER_11: I think I think yes.
29:39
SPEAKER_11: Yes.
29:39
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
29:40
SPEAKER_11: Sustained.
29:41
SPEAKER_11: Yes, yes, yes.
29:43
SPEAKER_11: I think he was entrapped.
29:44
SPEAKER_11: And she she trapped them both, actually.
29:46
SPEAKER_12: And I hope as they try to fix it, get an objective third party.
29:51
SPEAKER_12: Go to a counselor.
29:52
SPEAKER_12: Go do some therapy and see if see what you got.
29:55
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
29:55
SPEAKER_12: Yep.
29:56
SPEAKER_08: Yep.
29:57
SPEAKER_08: Judgment call.
31:16
SPEAKER_02: And I can't believe that you actually fell for it.
31:25
SPEAKER_02: Don't worry, I know.
31:27
SPEAKER_02: And so is everyone else on the internet, as well as your family and our.
31:32
SPEAKER_11: I mean, he was caught.
31:35
SPEAKER_11: I mean flat footed.
31:36
SPEAKER_11: Something I half the time I don't believe what I see on videos.
31:40
SPEAKER_11: I know that man was like his throat.
31:43
SPEAKER_11: His heart was in his throat.
31:45
SPEAKER_11: Just, oh my God, realizing playing back in his head, all of those messages that she heard.
31:52
SPEAKER_11: Can you imagine?
31:54
SPEAKER_11: Just walking up there, his chest gotta be getting tight.
31:57
SPEAKER_11: And he said, You made me drive two hours for this.
32:01
SPEAKER_12: This this is this don't look like McKenna.
32:03
SPEAKER_11: This is very I know you.
32:08
SPEAKER_11: And and and it just he was so caught.
32:11
SPEAKER_11: Oh, he couldn't be eloquent, he couldn't, he couldn't be mad, he couldn't do anything.
32:15
SPEAKER_11: He was stunned.
32:16
SPEAKER_12: He was just stunned.
32:17
SPEAKER_12: He was stunned.
32:18
SPEAKER_12: Remember that show um To Catch a Predator where Oh, absolutely.
32:22
SPEAKER_11: Chris Hanson, yeah.
32:24
SPEAKER_11: Chris Hansen, yes, Chris Hansen.
32:25
SPEAKER_11: It was that.
32:26
SPEAKER_11: It was that, it was that moment.
32:28
SPEAKER_11: Yeah, it was really that moment for him, and there was nothing he could say and nowhere he could go.
32:33
SPEAKER_11: And now I know we just talked about another woman entrapping her husband.
32:39
SPEAKER_11: And I know that I sustained the objection with respect to that for him.
32:45
SPEAKER_11: But this guy Are you gonna make an appeal?
32:48
SPEAKER_11: This guy, separate circumstances.
32:51
SPEAKER_11: This guy showed up.
32:52
SPEAKER_11: He showed up, and I think she knew just how wrong he was.
32:56
SPEAKER_11: Right.
32:56
SPEAKER_11: And, you know, whether it was the most intelligent way to go about it.
33:00
SPEAKER_11: I wouldn't want a brother that big and that, you know, seemingly uh not not not well anyway.
33:07
SPEAKER_12: Well, I don't know.
33:08
SPEAKER_12: Um I don't know how you where's where are we sleeping tonight?
33:13
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
33:13
SPEAKER_12: Because I don't think I'm going back to that house.
33:15
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, right.
33:16
SPEAKER_12: Not after this day.
33:17
SPEAKER_11: Think that one, as you used to say, play the tape all the way to the end.
33:20
SPEAKER_12: Play to the end, because right, did we pack?
33:22
SPEAKER_12: Did I pack a bag and are my things in the trunk and I'm gonna go stay with a family member?
33:26
SPEAKER_12: I got a hotel because you can't go back to that tonight.
33:29
SPEAKER_11: Yeah, he's already drinking.
33:31
SPEAKER_11: Right.
33:31
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
33:32
SPEAKER_11: And alcohol and upset do not go together.
33:35
SPEAKER_03: At all.
33:36
SPEAKER_11: At all.
33:37
SPEAKER_11: So what is she gonna do?
33:38
SPEAKER_11: I mean, and my my question to all that, because everybody used to come into divorce court talking, I'm I'm I'm inspector gadget.
33:46
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
33:46
SPEAKER_11: What is your end game?
33:48
SPEAKER_11: Right.
33:49
SPEAKER_11: You know, what is your end game?
33:51
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
33:52
SPEAKER_11: And they and they, I want to catch him.
33:54
SPEAKER_11: I said, yeah, but you always stay.
33:56
SPEAKER_12: And then so you catch him.
34:02
SPEAKER_11: You act like a tornado for a while, and then you sit down.
34:05
SPEAKER_11: Right.
34:06
SPEAKER_11: So what's the point of catching him?
34:08
SPEAKER_11: Right.
34:08
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
34:09
SPEAKER_11: If you're not gonna make an intelligent decision with the information that you have.
34:13
SPEAKER_12: You got it.
34:14
SPEAKER_12: He was so busted that all he could rely on were those basic psychological mechanisms of defense.
34:22
SPEAKER_12: First, he immediately went to the gaslighting.
34:24
SPEAKER_12: Right.
34:25
SPEAKER_12: Immediately, right?
34:26
SPEAKER_12: And then he Why did you do this?
34:28
SPEAKER_12: Right.
34:28
SPEAKER_12: And then a projection, you know what I mean?
34:30
SPEAKER_12: You're so childish for tricking me into cheating.
34:33
SPEAKER_12: And you make me drive two hours to prove that I was a cheater.
34:36
SPEAKER_12: Right.
34:37
SPEAKER_12: Which is which is a diabolical abuser technique, right?
34:40
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
34:40
SPEAKER_12: The thing, the bad behavior that I'm delivering to you is your fault.
34:44
SPEAKER_12: It's your fault.
34:45
SPEAKER_11: It's that that small mistake you made over here.
34:48
SPEAKER_12: You got it.
34:49
SPEAKER_12: So all projection, all denial, all gaslighting.
34:53
SPEAKER_12: Um, and then I can only imagine, right?
34:59
SPEAKER_12: The planning, the plotting, the scheming as she went through to execute this.
35:04
SPEAKER_12: Right.
35:04
SPEAKER_12: Uh it was a humiliation.
35:06
SPEAKER_12: Right.
35:06
SPEAKER_12: Right.
35:07
SPEAKER_12: And so I can only imagine that this is a woman behind that camera who must have felt extraordinarily humiliated.
35:15
SPEAKER_12: Right.
35:16
SPEAKER_12: And I want you to feel humiliated that I have felt.
35:19
SPEAKER_11: Because I think, you know, this behavior was on the back of a whole lot of bad that happened.
35:24
SPEAKER_11: A whole lot of bad.
35:24
SPEAKER_11: And because if he knew he would show, right.
35:26
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
35:27
SPEAKER_11: She drove two hours away, so she knew he would show.
35:30
SPEAKER_12: She knew he was show.
35:31
SPEAKER_11: So he was so hurt.
35:32
SPEAKER_11: So I've been humiliated.
35:33
SPEAKER_11: Now I'm gonna humiliate you and put it on the internet, right?
35:37
SPEAKER_11: Which I think fuels some of this behavior.
35:41
SPEAKER_11: Sure.
35:41
SPEAKER_11: You know, it says, I've got a new way to, you know, it's better than a skit.
35:47
SPEAKER_11: Engage in obloquy.
35:49
SPEAKER_12: It's it's better than the best skit.
35:51
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
35:51
SPEAKER_12: You know what I mean?
35:52
SPEAKER_12: She wily coyote him.
35:54
SPEAKER_12: And she's gonna get she's gonna get views on top of it.
35:58
SPEAKER_12: So and she's got the thing you talked about.
36:00
SPEAKER_12: She's got an end game.
36:01
SPEAKER_12: She was like, I will also be presenting this to my attorney in defense of my suit for our divorce.
36:07
SPEAKER_12: So it's like she had she's had an end game, so I'll give her that.
36:10
SPEAKER_11: I don't need to tell that.
36:11
SPEAKER_11: She don't need that.
36:12
SPEAKER_11: You know, it's a no-fault divorce in all 50 states now.
36:15
SPEAKER_11: Okay, okay, okay, okay.
36:17
SPEAKER_11: I don't know, it might help with uh settlement?
36:19
SPEAKER_11: Does it help stuff like that help with settlements?
36:21
SPEAKER_11: Unless you misappropriate a lot of funds running around with somebody else or something like that.
36:25
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
36:26
SPEAKER_11: If you spent 50,000 on your girlfriend, I want that money back.
36:29
SPEAKER_12: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha.
36:31
SPEAKER_12: Huh.
36:31
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
36:32
SPEAKER_11: She just wanted to feel good.
36:34
SPEAKER_12: Yeah.
36:35
SPEAKER_12: The humiliation was brutal.
36:37
SPEAKER_11: She uh he's the jerk.
36:39
SPEAKER_11: For sure.
36:40
SPEAKER_11: And and and she's the hurt one who I don't know I wonder.
36:45
SPEAKER_11: I just don't like the approach.
36:47
SPEAKER_11: I just don't think that it's an it's true, it's an intelligent approach for her because there's some risk involved in that.
36:54
SPEAKER_12: There's a lot of risk involved in that approach.
36:56
SPEAKER_12: Uh, she mitigated some of that risk by doing it in a public place for sure.
37:00
SPEAKER_12: Right.
37:01
SPEAKER_12: And hopefully she's gonna get in her car and go in separate directions.
37:04
SPEAKER_12: Separate directions.
37:04
SPEAKER_12: And she's got a safe, uh, what we call an action plan.
37:08
SPEAKER_12: I'm gonna be here at five.
37:09
SPEAKER_11: If I'm not here by six, six, you call because somebody needs to know where she is and what she's doing and when she should be done.
37:16
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
37:17
SPEAKER_12: Not that we are in any way laying out a game plan on you how you can humiliate your partner, right?
37:22
SPEAKER_12: But if you're gonna do that kind of thing, you've got to be smart about the safety on the back end.
37:27
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, you gotta play the tape all the way to the end.
37:29
SPEAKER_12: And now the way he reacted tells me this wasn't his first time getting busted.
37:33
SPEAKER_12: No.
37:34
SPEAKER_12: He was just, here we go.
37:36
SPEAKER_12: It's like again.
37:40
SPEAKER_12: Son of a again! Ay, ay, aye.
37:45
SPEAKER_12: It's rough out there, Judge.
37:46
SPEAKER_12: It is.
37:47
SPEAKER_06: Am I the asshole for writing up an employee who catfished me?
37:54
SPEAKER_06: I'm a manager and work in an environment that's rather casual where employees get close and spend lots of time together outside of work.
38:02
SPEAKER_06: I'm a little traditional when it comes to an employer-employee relationship.
38:06
SPEAKER_06: So while I do participate in some activities that help to build morale, like happy hours after work, attending weddings, etc., I do not participate in social activities where things might get out of hand.
38:19
SPEAKER_06: For example, going to concerts, clubbing, or going to someone's house to hang out.
38:25
SPEAKER_06: This is a personal policy that I also extend to social media, where I keep my profiles private and do not add or accept employees on all platforms.
38:35
SPEAKER_06: I just like to keep things private and I don't want them to see where I spend my time, who I'm dating, etc.
38:42
SPEAKER_06: Recently, a new hire asked for my account, and I kindly let her know that I like to keep things private.
38:49
SPEAKER_06: I thought that was it.
38:51
SPEAKER_06: But she went ahead and made a fake account to follow me, going as far as to post fake photos and write a fake bio to make it look like we went to college together.
39:01
SPEAKER_06: I found out because after I accepted her, she took screenshots of my photos and shared them to other colleagues.
39:09
SPEAKER_06: Thankfully, there wasn't anything off base on my accounts, but she did share photos of my new boyfriend I haven't introduced yet, as well as photos of a new designer bag I purchased, and jokingly asked everyone if he was my sugar daddy.
39:25
SPEAKER_06: It was a huge breach of my privacy.
39:28
SPEAKER_06: Her comments also embarrassed me.
39:31
SPEAKER_06: And I ended up writing her up, which is a semi-serious offense in our workplace that can lead to termination.
39:38
SPEAKER_06: Since then, it's caused a huge drama at work with some employees thinking I can't take a joke and that I was taking things too far, while others have come out to support me.
39:48
SPEAKER_06: I hate that it split the team up.
39:51
SPEAKER_06: Upper management supports my decision, but some employees have mentioned that I could have just verbally warned her first and that it was my own fault for falling for her catfish.
40:02
SPEAKER_06: Am I the asshole?
40:06
SPEAKER_11: Interesting.
40:07
SPEAKER_11: I don't know what's wrong with people.
40:10
SPEAKER_11: I don't know why they need to have this depth of information about people that you just work with.
40:19
SPEAKER_11: It's somehow like between Facebook and Instagram that we're supposed to be emotionally naked all the time.
40:27
SPEAKER_11: So everybody can see everything that's going on and like you're hiding something.
40:33
SPEAKER_11: I want in.
40:33
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
40:34
SPEAKER_11: I want in.
40:34
SPEAKER_11: I want in.
40:35
SPEAKER_11: Let's see it.
40:36
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
40:38
SPEAKER_11: It's incredible that she would want to and I would feel harass.
40:43
SPEAKER_11: I would I would feel uncomfortable.
40:45
SPEAKER_11: I would not call HR though out the gate.
40:48
SPEAKER_11: Would you not?
40:49
SPEAKER_11: Not out the gate.
40:50
SPEAKER_11: HR, once HR gets involved, everybody gets in trouble.
40:54
SPEAKER_11: You know what I mean?
40:55
SPEAKER_11: Everybody's in trouble.
40:56
SPEAKER_11: Asian trouble.
40:57
SPEAKER_11: You know what I'm saying?
40:58
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
40:58
SPEAKER_11: I would.
40:59
SPEAKER_11: I know this is old.
41:01
SPEAKER_11: I'd have a conversation with the woman.
41:03
SPEAKER_11: There you go with that conversation.
41:06
SPEAKER_11: One note sister.
41:07
SPEAKER_11: I am a one-note sister.
41:09
SPEAKER_11: I believe if you have a problem with someone, the first thing to do is first calm yourself.
41:14
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
41:15
SPEAKER_11: Don't come in with all the angry and just ask her.
41:19
SPEAKER_11: This is very intrusive to me.
41:21
SPEAKER_11: I just, what are you what are you doing here?
41:24
SPEAKER_11: Why, why, why are you doing this?
41:26
SPEAKER_11: And I bet she doesn't know.
41:27
SPEAKER_12: See, it's interesting you say that because I mean knowing what I know about you, you have a very intelligent, non-confrontational way of resolving conflict.
41:40
SPEAKER_12: That is a skill set that many, many people no longer have.
41:47
SPEAKER_11: I gotta be able to talk my way out of trouble.
41:50
SPEAKER_12: But it's it's a conflict resolution doesn't have to be confrontational.
41:54
SPEAKER_12: Right.
41:55
SPEAKER_12: Like we can talk about it, the difference of opinion.
41:58
SPEAKER_12: Help me understand how you got here with the fake profile and help me understand that.
42:02
SPEAKER_12: Okay, I get it.
42:03
SPEAKER_12: I don't think that was appropriate.
42:04
SPEAKER_12: And so what can we do to resolve it?
42:06
SPEAKER_12: You can have that conversation.
42:08
SPEAKER_12: Right.
42:08
SPEAKER_12: Right.
42:08
SPEAKER_12: But I think if you think about 2026 and life and how we live it 10 hours a day on our phone, there's a lot of folks who just really don't know how to resolve that conflict anymore.
42:18
SPEAKER_12: Don't know.
42:19
SPEAKER_12: Don't know.
42:19
SPEAKER_12: And it goes from zero to a hundred in the blink of an eye.
42:22
SPEAKER_11: And now we're going to, oh, let's go con no contact, no contact.
42:25
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
42:26
SPEAKER_11: Because I do not have the capacity, I do not have the skill set to sit down with someone I don't agree with and have a conversation.
42:33
SPEAKER_11: I had a conversation with somebody about a hot political topic.
42:38
SPEAKER_12: Just of which there are many.
42:41
SPEAKER_11: Yeah, I mean, and he and I were on polar opposites, and then he winked at me.
42:47
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
42:48
SPEAKER_11: And I started laughing.
42:49
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
42:49
SPEAKER_11: Because we love each other.
42:51
SPEAKER_11: Right.
42:52
SPEAKER_11: And and I'm gonna let you have your opinion.
42:54
SPEAKER_11: I'm not gonna demonize you.
42:56
SPEAKER_11: I don't have to hate you.
42:57
SPEAKER_11: I don't have to go no contact.
42:59
SPEAKER_11: I can actually have a conversation.
43:01
SPEAKER_11: We can say our points.
43:03
SPEAKER_11: Maybe he changes my mind a little.
43:05
SPEAKER_11: Maybe I change his, but everything is not an invitation to an invasion.
43:11
SPEAKER_12: Well, see, now that's interesting because that is how two whole humans interact.
43:17
SPEAKER_12: Right?
43:19
SPEAKER_12: Right?
43:20
SPEAKER_12: You can have a difference of opinion.
43:22
SPEAKER_12: We can have, we can be on polar polar opposite sides of this one topic.
43:28
SPEAKER_12: I can hear your conversation.
43:30
SPEAKER_12: I can understand how you got there and not feel the need to rob you of your opinion.
43:36
SPEAKER_12: Right.
43:36
SPEAKER_12: Right?
43:37
SPEAKER_12: Or of your humanity.
43:38
SPEAKER_12: That's right.
43:39
SPEAKER_12: Right.
43:39
SPEAKER_11: You know, you just you you wrong, but you wrong, but you just you know, you don't it that doesn't deserve the death penalty.
43:48
SPEAKER_11: It's just of our relationship.
43:50
SPEAKER_11: So HR always had, she always had a choice of doing HR later.
43:55
SPEAKER_11: That's right.
43:55
SPEAKER_11: You always do the least intrusive thing first.
43:57
SPEAKER_11: Yeah.
43:58
SPEAKER_11: And also going straight to HR, I know it started something with her colleagues because if they think she's a person, oh, I do something wrong, she's running to one to HR, I got a problem.
44:08
SPEAKER_11: You got it.
44:09
SPEAKER_11: So I think it would have been better for her to have a conversation.
44:12
SPEAKER_11: She was totally abused.
44:14
SPEAKER_11: I mean, misused in that circumstance.
44:17
SPEAKER_12: That's the get.
44:17
SPEAKER_11: I don't get it.
44:19
SPEAKER_12: The person who's making the players, the fake profile, what are you getting out of that?
44:23
SPEAKER_12: It's amazing.
44:24
SPEAKER_12: And why is that get so important to you, right?
44:28
SPEAKER_12: It's um, I, you know, it's it's got early stalker vibes, you know.
44:33
SPEAKER_12: Um, it's got early, I like your life and I think I might want it for mine kind of vibes.
44:39
SPEAKER_12: You know, it's just yeah, I don't understand what's the get on the other side of that.
44:42
SPEAKER_11: I don't either.
44:43
SPEAKER_11: I don't get it at all.
44:44
SPEAKER_11: So, you know, definitely she was a jerk.
44:46
SPEAKER_11: You weren't, you weren't, you weren't the asshole for going to HR.
44:50
SPEAKER_11: I would have gone gone the slower road in the beginning, but definitely you felt uncomfortable, you went to HR.
44:55
SPEAKER_11: I can't violation.
44:56
SPEAKER_11: Yeah, hey, hey, so you are not the asshole.
45:00
SPEAKER_11: So, Dr.
45:01
SPEAKER_11: Ish, what did we learn today?
45:03
SPEAKER_12: Well, uh first of all, uh, I'm gonna go home and Google the roster for my favorite football teams just to make sure I know.
45:15
SPEAKER_12: All of them are real.
45:18
SPEAKER_12: Well, you know what we learned?
45:20
SPEAKER_12: It is very, very easy to adopt a whole different identity online these days and transfer that to your real life in whatever way you see fit.
45:31
SPEAKER_11: Right, right.
45:32
SPEAKER_11: And and and make sure you know the difference between the two.
45:35
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, for sure.
45:36
SPEAKER_12: For sure.
45:38
SPEAKER_12: Authenticity is such it's a rare thing, and when we see it today, it strikes us way more than it ever used to be because we don't see it later.
45:47
SPEAKER_12: Right?
45:48
SPEAKER_12: Whether we agree with that authenticity or not, it's striking and we can't look away because it's not something we see every day all the time.
45:55
SPEAKER_12: Absolutely.
45:55
SPEAKER_12: Yeah, I mean Ajan Love.
45:59
SPEAKER_12: I gotta watch the Netflix documentary.
46:00
SPEAKER_12: I can't wait for that because it's here now.
46:02
SPEAKER_12: It's here now.
46:03
SPEAKER_12: Uh so if anybody out there has a video, you've seen a video, you've made a video that you feel like we have to weigh in on, absolutely tag us in that video, judgment.call.podcast, and we will have it on and we will chop it up and we will weigh in and cast judgment.
46:24
SPEAKER_12: See you next time.