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WNBA Finals Preview with Coach Jackie, Plus How the Seattle Storm Hopes to Bounce Back · Sports In America with David Greene

• DAVID GREENE, HOST: All right, I'm gonna say this. I think a lot of people hearing me are gonna be ticked off because they might not agree, but I love good defense in sports. JACKIE JOHNSTON: Oh, me too. DG: You do. OK, good. That makes me happy. We're gonna get along so well, because you know what I'm talking about. There's sports fans out there who are like, when there's not a lot of scoring, and when there's not, like, explosive offense, I don't care if we're talking about basketball or hockey or whatever, they're like, ‘This is boring.’ Not boring. Defense is amazing. JJ: Oh yeah, I grew up as a defender. I was a defensive midfielder in soccer. I would play defense sometimes too. And it’s how you win games, baby. They don't just say that. It's true. Defense wins games. I think you’re bringing this up because, going into these WNBA finals, we've got two teams who know how to have a good D. So it's gonna be a very interesting matchup for sure. DG: Yeah, you read my mind. So I am talking to Jackie Johnston, who is known as Coach Jackie J. She has been on our show before. I hope she comes on a lot more. She's a women's sports content creator and you have a new podcast, called Is She Game? JJ: Yes, I have a new podcast. It comes out every Friday. Is She Game? is kind of a play on this series of videos I do where I say like, ‘Is she gay or does she just coach women's basketball?’ or, ‘does she just play women's sports?’ And so it's kind of gamified in that very NPR-esque thing that you might be familiar with with like a fun… DG: Maybe. I have some experience with that, yeah. JJ: Yeah, a fun, radio-style game, I should say. So we play fun games with the guests, and then we talk about women's sports headlines and reality TV, which is not a sport, but it is a sport to me, and all of those good things. So yeah, I'm very, very excited for the show. And it's being produced by Run-A-Muck, and also Higher Ground, which is the Obamas’ production company, which is really exciting. DG: Which is really exciting. Like, I mean, to say you're just working with Barack and Michelle Obama, like not everyone gets to say that. That's probably not bad. JJ: It’s nuts. It's very nuts, and I keep thinking, ‘Is this real?’ And then it keeps being real. DG: Billie Jean King, your first episode, right? JJ: Yes. DG: What was that conversation like? And what games did you play with her? JJ: Yeah. So, oh wow, the game. So Billie Jean King obviously is such a women’s sports icon, but also a queer icon. Someone who's like forced out of the closet, outed, took it in stride and her team was like, ‘Don't come out.’ And she was like, ‘I have to tell the truth.’ And, like, her story has been one for me that I've known for most of my life, and have always come back to in the way she has carried herself and the way she fought for equal pay and all of that. Like, she's such an inspiration to me. And I told her, like, if she wasn't who she was, I would not have a show. I would not have a job. You know, a lot of people, you know, give her credit for the success of many athletes, and athletes being paid what they're paid and all these things. But also, you know, women's sports media, and sports media owes it to those people too. So I was really, really grateful to be able to tell her that, like to her face. And it was just a really surreal conversation. And then we played a game where I asked her to define lesbian terms. And you know what? She kinda nailed it. DG: Oh my God, that's amazing. All right, well, everyone should listen to that entire conversation. JJ: Please, please. DG: Well, let's talk some WNBA. As you and I were saying at the top, I mean, this finals could be all defense. The Atlanta Dream, the Golden State Valkyries are the two best defensive teams in the league. What are you expecting? Like, how would you frame this series for people who are big WNBA fans, and people who are kind of just getting into it because it's championship time? JJ: Yeah, for people who are just getting into it because it's championship time, I would say you should know this is the first ever best-of-seven series in the WNBA. So we've never had the best of seven. It's always been best of five before. And so that's really exciting, to just get more good basketball. And that's what the WNBA finals is. It is always such good basketball. They're intense like any finals would be. With these two teams, there's like really interesting stories happening. You have the Golden State Valkyries making the WBA finals in their second-ever year of existence. DG: Which is crazy! Like expansion teams back in the day in sports, like never expected to be like competing for anything in the first decade or so. It’s crazy. JJ: Yeah. It's really interesting, because I think you get that because a lot of these older teams, they kind of had been in the WNBA for so long and their ownership has kind of been able to, kind of, rest on their laurels a little bit. And with the WNBA you have these expansion teams coming in with a really big energy of like, ‘We want to be the best, and we want to start our investment at the top.’ And I love the story of the Valkyries making the finals in their second-ever year, because I think that's a story of what happens when you put your money where your mouth is, right? This is an ownership group that came in. They put a bunch of money into the Valkyries. They said, ‘No, we're gonna play in the big arena every time. We're gonna sell out that arena every time,’ and they do, and they do, and they do. We're gonna get, you know, coach Natalie Nakase, just absolutely powerhouse talent in the women's basketball coaching space. And we're gonna tell her, and this is true, ‘You have five years to win a championship.’ Like, she had an ultimatum coming into this brand new team. But with the resources, with the investment, with everything being such a high level from the jump, they were able to make the finals. And I think that's a testament to everyone else that, like, as much as we say, and I'm sure you talk about this on your show all the time, like, you know, it's about the talent, it's about the team, it's about the players. It is. But also, sports is a lot about money. DG: Yeah. JJ: And sports is a lot about what you put into it. And I think it's a cool story for other teams to see that it's paying off for the Valkyries. And even just the community energy is paying off. And I think that's also if you switch to Atlanta, the story as well, a little bit around the community and the way that they've been playing at State Farm Arena, and their finals games were just recently, literally, as we're recording this, just moved to State Farm Arena. They were not originally going to be there, which is crazy. DG: Oh, you're breaking news for us. So they are not gonna be playing in their small arena. These games are gonna be in a big arena. JJ: No. DG: I did want to ask you about that, because it looked like the Atlanta Dream was gonna be hosting in an arena that holds 3,500 people. JJ: That’s correct. DG: And, like, knowing Atlanta and we've had Killer Mike on our show recently talking about what a great sports town Atlanta is, I think there are more than 3,500 people who are gonna wanna go to some of these games that are in Atlanta. JJ: Uh, yeah. And so it's actually really great what they're doing, I think, for the community, because they weren't gonna have the games at State Farm because the MNBA team, the Hawks, had their season opener there, which I was like, ‘Who knew that men's basketball was starting? Not me.’ I was, like, not locked into that, but whatever. DG: [Laughter] It's all about the W right now. JJ: Yeah, like give us some time, guys, like back off. But, no, so it's gonna be a double header, which is kind of fun with the men's game and the women's game. So, I think that the way Atlanta has really come together around this this WBA team, and obviously you have your stars in Rhyne Howard, you have Angel Reese, who's, just, like, I could talk about her for a whole other 20 minutes, Allisha Gray, just really exciting talent that's coming together to be hard to beat. And I think I saw that even in person when I watched them play The Liberty recently. It was like, ‘I don't know what Liberty can do to match this right now.’ It was hard. DG: Because Atlanta was like a turnover machine, right? They were causing turnovers, wreaking havoc, scoring points off those turnovers. And that's the great defense that I think you and I were both talking about loving so much. And the Liberty, like a great team with incredible scorers. JJ: Yeah, oh my God. That's a hard team to lock down, as is the Las Vegas Aces that the Valkyries were playing. And you had, you know, Natalie Nakase going up against her former boss in Becky Hammon. She used to, the head coach of the Valkyries used to be an assistant coach for the Aces, just two years ago before she started with this team. And so, like, she had the inside scoop a little bit. And that is what is really exciting. It's like seeing how these two defensive teams are gonna are gonna try and change things up a little bit to free some space and to, you know, what do people have in their pockets, is what I'm excited for, for this series. DG: Yeah. I almost hate to bring this up, but we all know that the WNBA was kind of dragged into our whole sort of political conversation this year. Sophie Cunningham from Indiana Fever like, you know, making the argument that she doesn't think trans players should be playing in the W. And I mean, it just got really ugly. I had Elle Duncan, a number of weeks ago on the show. JJ: Love her. DG: You know, she's a great sports host and commentator at Netflix. Yeah, she's great. She sounded really worried. I mean, she was saying that, this is like such a great year to celebrate this league. I think, you know, this championship speaks to that. And that all of this conversation and sort of politics has been muddying the waters in the league and making it hard to celebrate. Like, how do you feel about that? JJ: That's exactly how I feel. I think, right now, I'm really excited for this final series to be just really fun to watch. And I really want it to be and know it will be. And I want that to be the conversation so badly. I want everyone talking about the basketball, because it's just so good. And when grifters like Sophie come in and they say things, like, she is not relevant. And so she does this to make herself relevant. She doesn't think trans women should play in the WNBA. There are no trans women in the WNBA right now. Kicking a group of people while they're already down, while they're already a minority, while the whole country is already attacking them. And every time she speaks, then you feel the need to speak back. And when you speak back, you only give more power to, you know, to her. What is happening in the WNBA, hopefully, is I want all of the fans to just really love the basketball so much that we start just calling it for what it is, which is stupid and dumb and lame. And like let's use those schoolyard terms, because that's what it is. It doesn't deserve me to do, like, a long post about like, ‘Here's all the facts you need to know,’ that, like, I've been doing that in the past ,and now I'm kind of off of that. DG: Hm. JJ: I don't know that I can explain my way out of someone who clearly just doesn't care. And I think that maybe we have to stop explaining. DG: Sports and politics are often intertwined, and a lot of people say that sports often reflect, you know, our country in a moment. Do you think if the league wants to continue being as big as I think it has the potential to be, they need to make room for all these different perspectives and kind of take a lead in being a place where this conversation can happen? JJ: Yeah, I think context is really important, right? So, like, for so long, the WNBA has been a really a beacon of standing up for what's right. And in many ways that was because it wasn't as big, you know, that they were able to, in the bubble season that was during the pandemic, they were able to come together, all 144 players in support of Say Her Name and Black Lives Matter, right? And everybody did that together as one voice, including Sophie Cunningham, might I add. And so I think that the growth, and the gentrification of women's sports does bring in these other, other perspectives. And it's more money, really. You know, it's the money that kind of makes things bigger and makes you think, ‘We have to, if we want to grow, we have to be a league that allows bigots. We have to be a league that lets transphobes say their peace.’ I don't believe that. I really, really don't. Because if you start holding space for all perspectives, if one person's perspective is, like ‘Trans women are women,’ and the other person's perspective is ‘No, they're not,’ that's not a conversation. That's someone saying, ‘These people exist,’ and that's someone saying, ‘They don't deserve rights.’ We're not talking to each other. You're just hating on a group of people, right? I think, not only can the WNBA continue to grow while it puts its foot down, while standing up for the right thing, I think that's the way it can continue to grow. I think that that's really a huge way to make sure that everyone falls in love with this league for what it's always been. DG: I want to ask about one other thing, which is the conversation that we're about to listen to on our show. It's with Sonia Raman, who's the first-year coach of the Seattle Storm. You mentioned, like, the challenge that ownership made to the Valkyries, like to their coach, like, ‘You have five years to win a championship.’ It was so interesting. Seattle had a terrible year, but listening to Sonia talk about kind of the bigger picture and what it's like to build with a group of younger players, and sort of, you know, look at the long game, it was fascinating. I learned a lot of lessons about the value of losing and hardship, and kind of having a long view of what success looks like. I mean, where do you think she's going? Where do you think Seattle's going? JJ: Oh, that's so cool. I'm excited to listen to that conversation. I think she's great, by the way. DG: Yeah. JJ: I think that the young talent in the W is the most exciting part right now. I'm a Mystics fan. D.C. has the youngest team in the WNBA this year. We made it to the playoffs, which is really exciting. And you look at a young group and you just think, ‘Oh my God, there's so much. Where can you go from here?’ You know? And I think Seattle has that. I think they're definitely in a building stage. They had so many players. You know, you lose someone, I know that was a while ago, but even still, the ramifications of having a Sue Bird on your team, that's a big deal, right? And to not have her, you feel that. You feel the loss of those kind of, like, big players. But at the same time, when people don't, and I, not to say people don't expect a lot from Seattle, 'cause it's a, you know, it's a big organization and they've had success, but when you're in a building stage, the only way to go is up. And I think as a coach, I would find that really comforting. So I'm excited to see what she has to say. And I think that, as much as I love to win when my team wins, I love a coach who understands what it means to lose and to learn, which is cool. DG: Yeah. And we are about to hear that. All right, that conversation with Sonia Raman, the coach of the Seattle Storm, is coming up next. Coach Jackie J, her new podcast is, Is She Game? Everyone should go listen to it. And Jackie, I hope you'll come back and hang out with us again soon. Thanks a lot. JJ: Yeah, please. Thanks for having me. [MIDROLL BREAK] [MUSIC] [MONTAGE OF SEATTLE STORM BROADCASTS] DG: What happens when the worst season in franchise history also happens to be your first one as head coach? It’s a reality hitting Seattle Storm coach Sonia Raman square in the face. The Storm finished this season with five straight losses, and racked up a staggering 8 and 36 record. In the organization's nearly 30 years, these 36 losses mark one of their worst performances ever. And if you know anything about women’s basketball, this is basically unheard of in Seattle. The franchise is often considered one of the best in the league. They’re tied for the most championship titles in WNBA history with four titles, and they’re responsible for producing generational superstars like Sue Bird, Breanna Stewart, and Jewell Lloyd. [MONTAGE OF SEATTLE STORM BROADCASTS] For most coaches, this might feel like the end of their career. But if you know anything about Sonia Raman, it’s that she’s faced far bigger challenges. Basketball has always been a constant in Sonia’s life. But as the daughter of immigrant parents, she never allowed herself to dream of the sport as anything more than a hobby. She started off her career as a big-shot lawyer working for the U.S. Department of Labor, and while she wasn’t trying to make a career in basketball, it always found its way back to her. SONIA RAMAN: At some point, you know, my head coach was really mentoring me a lot. And she was putting the idea in my mind of, ‘This is your calling, like, this is what you should be doing full time.’ DG: Today on Sports in America, we’re going to hear from Seattle Storm head coach Sonia Raman to hear how she turned her own refusal to let go of basketball into the motivation her team needed. We’ll also go deep on how what could have been a devastating injury she endured in college turned into the moment she saw basketball in an entirely new way. And we’ll hear how after her nearly six years as a risk and compliance lawyer, perhaps her riskiest bet was the one she placed on herself. But first, let’s start with this disappointing season. How did the Seattle Storm go from being a crown jewel franchise of the W to not even qualifying for the playoffs? [MUSIC] In 2026, the team underwent a massive roster overhaul, losing All-Stars like Nneka Ogwumike, Skylar Diggins-Smith, and Gabby Williams, effectively stripping the locker room of veteran leadership, core scorers, and a high-level defense. This meant the team had to rely on a fresh batch of young players like Flau’jae Johnson, Dominique Malonga, and Awa Fam, who, while proving to be promising newcomers, are still new to the game, leading to rookie mistakes and late-game turnovers Not to mention, it was also Sonia’s first year as head coach, so with so many new faces, everyone was just trying to learn how to play together. [MONTAGE OF SEATTLE STORM BROADCASTS] From the outside looking in, it might feel like there’s no way for Seattle to get out of this funk. But Sonia thinks this might be the motivation they need to fuel a comeback. I know record-wise, this hasn't been probably a dream season. SR: Yeah. DG: It's been tough. How much did this, like, not hit your expectations for season one for you? SR: I think that, like, for us, our expectations were to have a team that is out there that competes every day, that really leans into growth and, like, you know, gets better every day and does it together and does it with joy. So we're not where we would love to be in the standings and our win-loss record and all of that. But you know, we know that this year is a year of growth for us. It's a very young team. For most of the season, we started the youngest starting lineup in the league. And so, what's most important to get out of this season, we know, you know, to be able to pursue championships down the road is to, like, have championship habits this year instilled, you know, a championship DNA, a growth mindset, you know, a mindset of, ‘Let's get better every day.’ And, you know, with this young group especially, like, teaching them how to be pros and teaching them what they need to know, because we have some really good talent on this team. And so, what we wanna do is we want to make sure that in the years to come, like, we fortified our foundation in year one of this. And I think that we've been doing a really good job with that. Like I said, you know, obviously and and you mentioned as well, you know, not really reflected in the win-loss record, but I think the measurables that we have, and just seeing them day to day, seeing how they approach a practice after a loss, it's really incredible to see, and just really proud of like the growth of these players, and just kind of the resilience of having to battle through some of these losses. DG: Yeah, take me into that locker room in those games, because I can imagine as someone who's never coached anything in my life, like that being one of the biggest challenges for a coach to go into a game that maybe you feel like, you know, you don't have a really good chance of winning. The record's been tough, but as you say, you want to build a championship culture, and it's a real long game. Like, what are you saying, what are you telling the players to keep them motivated and thinking about this as a long game and not, you know, just another loss that's piling up? SR: Right. I mean, I think it's actually more of, like, staying in the short game of the next possession. You know, it's like very much about the next play. You know, on the defensive end, like can we just, can we get stops, right? Like, it starts there for us, and our philosophy of getting stops, and we try to play fast. So just getting better and better at playing fast, right? Being able to get the stop, push the ball in transition, generate more and more of those opportunities, knowing that we have really fast players, really athletic players, players who can get up and down the floor pretty quickly, cover ground, and versatile players. So you know, trying to create a style of play that matches the players that we have, and then continuing to encourage them, you know, for each possession on, ‘How do we do that,” right? And like, you know, the adjustments will happen as needed in the game, but so much of it is just like, you know, ‘Go out there and be the hardest working team on the court,’ you know, and find ways to impact winning. And I think a lot of that too, like, you know, as coaches, we can't really take all the credit for the way that this team shows up every day. Like that's very much a function of who they are as people as well, like their characters, you know, our front office, and how, like, intentional they were about the types of players they brought in the door. It's a competitive group, it's a prideful group, and it very much is, like, a resilient group that's able to come in the next day or come in the next play, and just keep battling and, like, our team is known for battling to the final buzzer. You know, we're been in most of our games this year, even the losses. So you know, that's something to build on. But you know, I would be remiss if I took too much of the credit for that. I think that the players are really the ones that drive a lot of that, and we're fortunate to have the ones that we do. DG: You were quoted a lot when you took the job, saying that you wanted to bring joy to the team, that joy was such an important word for you, in terms of your approach. What does that word mean? How does that play out, on a basketball court and with a team? SR: Yeah, I mean I think, like, you know, basketball is just such an incredible sport. Like it's so fun to play when you're playing well, and you're playing the right way, and you're doing it with your teammates who are, ideally, people that you really enjoy being around, right? And, like, you have chemistry, and you're doing hard things together, and, like, there's just so many aspects to, you know, a game, to practice, to a workout that are just, you know, like, you have to remember why you get into the sport in the first place. It's just, it's so fun. So I just wanna make sure that we bring that every day, you know, like, that we remember, whether it's just one small play, or it's an entire game or, you know, a practice, like these moments that we have to celebrate or to enjoy. You know, I think playing with joy, coaching with joy, is really important, you know, like, it's our jobs, but it's it's a sport, and it's a lot of fun, and I think it's a really, like, it's a really positive way to show up every day for work, you know, for your teammates, for your coworkers, if you can bring that joy. And for us, especially, like, with our squad, the joy for them, most of the time, it comes from someone else's good play. And that's the best part, you know, when you're celebrating someone else and that brings you joy personally, that's the best kind of, like, validation for you're doing things well as a team. [MUSIC] DG: And what's been the relationship with the fans? I mean, what has been your message to fans in Seattle, you know, to kind of stick with you, even, you know, during a first season that's all about growth? SR: Yeah, that's a great question. Our fans are awesome. This is such a great fan base in this organization. And so I was wondering what this year would feel like, but our attendance is still through the roof. The support that you feel from them, you know, whether it's at an event, at the game, you know, passing by on the street, you know, Natisha Hiedeman doing her run buds and bringing the whole like Seattle community in for these runs that she's doing, and the support I continually hear. You know, we have a really supportive fan base, and they're clearly not fairweather fans. They're sticking with this team, they're excited, they're excited for the future. I think they get a lot of joy from a lot of the plays that the players make, and they're not always strung together for 40 minutes and that's obviously, you know, where we just need to kind of continue to grow, but there's a lot of exciting things that our players do on the court that our fans get behind, and you know, they've been really supportive. DG: Despite their less than ideal record, Seattle fandom is no joke. This season, they averaged about 12,000 fans per game, marking some of the highest home game attendance in the WNBA. And while the fans are supporting the Storm through this season, Sonia has always had a strong support system throughout her life. It started with her parents, after she first played basketball during recess in elementary school. Tell me about your family life and what role sports played, and if your parents were encouraging of you to pick up a basketball more. What was the dynamic? SR: Yeah, you know, my parents definitely encouraged me to like, you know, work hard in school, and that was sort of the vibe. My mom was definitely the sports person in the family, and like her family, whatever the sport was that they had access to in India, like was what they were watching. So they were following cricket, they were following tennis. You know, my mom played a little netball growing up. You know, I think that they knew that sports was a really good way to, like, learn life lessons and grow as a person. So they enrolled me in a lot of different sports growing up and definitely encouraged me to like, you know, to give it my all and to you know, enjoy it while I was there. DG: I feel like ‘immigrant family’ is this term that we just toss around so much in our country. SR: Mm-hmm. DG: I mean like, you know, my wife is Lebanese, Italian, and, you know, a few generations removed from her family actually moving from those places, but like she talks about being part of an immigrant family. Like, what does that label mean to you, and how present was that, you know, in your childhood memories? SR: Yeah, I mean, it was a huge part of my life, very proud of it. And, you know, I think just culturally, it starts to shape, like, my approach to sports, right? My approach to my career, my approach to college, and what I wanted to get out of college and beyond. So I think it definitely shaped me. Sports was always just kind of the fun thing. It wasn't something that really they drove, wasn't a big part of their lives. So they weren't really, like, pushing me to, you know, get to the travel team or, you know, get to that next step or become a coach by any means. It was something that they had to learn a lot about as they, you know, as they were here in America as well. DG: Was there a concern that sports could become a distraction from, like, schoolwork and other stuff? SR: For them, yes, not for me. [Laughter] DG: [Laughter] SR: But yeah, I mean, I think, you know, I wanted to just be able to play more sports, and they set a really good standard of, you know, what the expectations were, and once you can meet those expectations, like, you know, have at it. So, and I think they understood that, like, extracurricular activities were really important. So as long as they weren't a distraction, it was gonna always be a really supportive situation, and I think I really understood that. Like, I got the assignment, so you know, I made sure that I checked all the boxes that I needed to with school first. DG: In college, Sonia joined the girls basketball team as a walk on. It became central to her experience there, until an accident put her playing career in jeopardy. So you get to Tufts, you join the basketball team as a walk on, and then you have this horrible accident, an injury that actually was off the court. Tell us what happened. SR: Yeah, broke my leg. Got hit by a car, kind of like a bus car passing situation. Really unfortunate. It was halfway through my junior year. At that point we'd gone through a lot of coaching changes at Tufts, and that was my first year, I believe, with our new coach. And so I was only like a few months into it with her, and had the injury and that kind of took me out for like a full 12 months. So I wasn't really cleared until, like, second semester of my senior year. So it was a lot of time to miss. And obviously when it happened, like, just felt like the worst thing in the world. It was painful, and it was also just, my immediate thought was like, ‘I'm gonna miss a lot of basketball right now.’ Once I kind of understood, ‘All right, well, this is what it is.’ Like, ‘the bone's not gonna heal any quicker. What can I get out of this?’ And I just poured myself into the team, to my teammates, to my coaching staff, like, whatever I could do to be helpful, you know, outside of the time that I was rehabbing and all of that was just kind of what I put, like, all of my energy towards. I think it made me a better teammate. It made me a better leader, and I started to see the game a little bit differently. You know, when you're on the sideline and you know you're not gonna be in, everything just becomes, like, the lens is different. And I think I really started to see the game at that point, like, with more of a coaching lens. DG: Can you tell me more about the accident? I mean, it's just horrific, the idea of ever getting hit by a vehicle. SR: Yeah. DG: But I mean, in college ,when you're an athlete and you know, feeling so strong in your body and playing a sport, what exactly happened? SR: Yeah, it was a tip fib fracture. I kinda, like, cracked the windshield of the car, and then it sent me a little bit of a distance forward. And, you know, thankfully it was, you know, it could have been worse, like it was really just a tib fib fracture, and that’s really all it was. DG: This was the finals of your junior year? SR: Yes. DG: So did any part of you think about just, like, leaving the team, knowing that you couldn't play at all the next year, knowing that you were balancing sports and your academics? Like when you have an injury that severe, and you know you're never, you're not gonna be on the court the following year, is there a part of you that’s just like, you know, let me focus on other stuff? SR: No, it never did. [MUSIC] You know, for me it was like, when am I functional enough to be able to get back to campus so I can be at practices, and obviously wanting to get to classes as well once that started. But yeah, no, never really thought about doing that. Like. I was part of the team and, you know, whether I could play or I was injured, I was gonna stay a part of the team. DG: Talk to me more about seeing the court and the game from a coach's perspective, since you weren't playing. Like, is there a moment or a day or a game or a practice that you look back on and you kind of remember it's like, ‘Oh, I'm seeing the court differently. I'm seeing the sport differently.’ SR: Yeah, I don't think I really realized it until I, like, reflected back on it. I had coached before, you know, like in the summers, I had worked basketball camps, and you know, coached in clinics, and coached my high school team in a summer league. So I had been doing these things, and I always just thought I was coaching for fun, because I was, you know? Like it was just an extra thing that I did. It was a way to give back to younger players, younger kids, give back to the game that I felt like I got so much from. So, you know, the whole time I was doing that, and then going into being sidelined and watching the game from the side, I wasn't really thinking anything bigger than that. I just remember thinking, ‘I feel like I know I'm learning so much more right now. And I wish, like, had I been able to time up an injury, I wish this happened earlier in my career. Because I'm not gonna have a lot of time to like apply these lessons as a player.’ You know, I didn't think I was gonna coach down the road, so I was just thinking, ‘God, I feel like I really understand what my coaches were looking for a lot better now that I'm seeing it from here, if only I'd known this sooner.’ DG: So you spend this year kind of in a coach's perspective with this injury. You leave Tufts and you'd made a decision to go to law school. SR: Yes. DG: Take me into that decision, law school versus finding sort of a path in basketball and where your thinking was? SR: You know, for me, when I was finishing up my senior year, it was a little bit between, ‘Do I want to go to law school eventually?’ I majored in international relations with the idea of it being kind of a pre-law major. But I was always fascinated with teaching, and so I was also kind of curious as to, ‘Is that a path I want to go down?’ So after I graduated from Tufts, I spent a year doing AmeriCorps, and I worked throughout some schools in the city of Boston. The year after I did AmeriCorps, I worked for a foreign immigration attorney, and I was a paralegal. And so I kind of got a feel for what that was like, and ultimately decided to go to law school. And the whole time I was doing those two jobs, I was still at Tufts as an assistant coach. So I stayed on with that same coach that had started my junior year, and then went to law school. And at that point, you know, I was hanging up basketball finally and and kind of moving on to what I thought was like my proper you know adult career DG: And was basketball still lingering in your mind, even as you were pursuing these other jobs? SR: Yeah, I mean I don't think that I ever like left the game, you know? I just kinda kept finding my way back to the sport and finding my way back to coaching. And so when I finished law school, started working for the U.S. Department of Labor, and, you know, a few months into it or or so, the head coach at Wellesley College gave me a call. She needed another coach on staff because she was going out on maternity leave and asked me if I'd be interested. And I thought, you know, ‘I can do anything for a year. Let me kind of continue this thing that I'm doing of, giving back to the game, helping people, paying it forward, whatever you want to call it.’ DG: Was there a time when you really felt in your heart, ‘OK, this is where I want to go with my life and career?’ SR: Yeah, I think it was towards, I mean, you know, as I said, I can do anything for a year, and that's how I ended up at Wellesley College. I stayed for six. [MUSIC] And it was really during that like fifth and sixth year that I seriously started to consider it. I mean, I had changed jobs. I had left the Department of Labor. I went to Fidelity Investments. I was there by day, I was kind of driving over to Wellesley right after work, you know, using my vacation time to be able to get to tournaments and whatnot. And at some point, you know, my head coach was really mentoring me a lot, and she was putting the idea in my mind of, ‘This is your calling, like this is what you should be doing full time.’ And I think I finally saw it. And I appreciate that she kind of opened my mind to that idea of, ‘This is actually like the thing that you're probably meant to do.’ And so that's when I started exploring opportunities that were available after that season. DG: God, those moments and relationships can be so crucial. Like if you didn't have her in your ear saying, like, ‘This could be your career. This doesn't have to be a hobby on the side,’ do you think you would be where you are today? SR: No, for sure, I wouldn't. You know, like I said, like, kind of culturally, that the idea of, like, being a full time professional coach just wasn't, you know, on my radar. It just wasn't something that anyone in my family, my extended family had done. So, it really just wasn't something that was at the front of my mind that I really thought about. And she was pretty persistent. You know, I think that after a few years of being her assistant and really just kinda trusting in all the lessons I had learned from her, that was probably like the most, you know, the biggest one, the most important one that I got from her. DG: Coming up next, we’ll hear more from Seattle Storm head coach Sonia Raman. [MIDROLL BREAK] DG: Welcome back to Sports in America, and let’s get right back to our conversation with Sonia Raman, head coach of the Seattle Storm of the WNBA. You mentioned the cultural pressures and, you know, that this wasn't a path that anyone in your family had experience in. I mean, as you reflect on that, do you have advice for people who are, I don't know, sort of struggling with those cultural pressures, and wondering if some big decision might, you know, confuse family, or take them away from the path that was chosen for them in some way? SR: Yeah, I mean, I think it's important to take some risks, you know? Like, and that's whatever that means for you. You know, there's calculated risks, there's risks that you can take within, you know, the means that you have, within the opportunities that you have in front of you. You know, I was really fortunate to have, you know, the support of my family, the support of mentors and coaches that I worked for, as I was able to kind of take this jump. But it didn't feel like the biggest risk in the world, since I had been coaching that whole time. You know, in terms of advice, like, it's take risks, it's bet on yourself, and it's be really prepared. Like, you know, if there's a thing that you wanna go after, go after it, but like really put the time, you know, have the work ethic, and really be prepared for whatever it is that, you know, that you're passionate about and that you wanna do. DG: In 2008, Sonia decided to take that leap of faith and start coaching full time. She was head coach for the MIT women’s basketball team for 12 years, leading them to 152 victories, becoming the school's all-time winningest coach. In 2020, the NBA came knocking at her door, and she got the chance to take her coaching career to the next level with the Memphis Grizzlies. What was it like at that time, to be a woman coaching in the NBA? What was the relationship like with the players, the team? Was it different, the fact that you're a woman? SR: You know, I think the main difference was like, I was one of the only ones in the whole league. There's only a few of us. DG: That's my first memory of you, like when you made news. Like there were so few of you that it was kind of like, every time we saw you, like they would kind of zoom in on the courtside and show you. SR: Yeah, no, I mean, like, for sure, you know, and it's like, there's a whole staff here, like we don't need to zoom in on me. But I understood like, kind of, the, I guess, I don't know if novelty is the right word, but like, you know, there really weren't and still aren't a lot of women on coaching staffs. But in terms of my day to day experience, it didn't really feel much different. I think the differences were, for me, more like the college game, and the college resources at a Division III school, versus the professional level, the most elite athletes, all the resources that you need, a really, you know, a really high-level organization. And so that was, like, the differences were much more about how, like, the staff is structured, you know, how many people we have available as coaches, on a coaching staff, and all the people that kind of work to support the players. It's just massive. The guys were great. I loved coaching them. You know, they just want to get better individually. They want to get better as a team. So if you have things to offer them, they're listening. DG: What player with the Memphis Grizzlies sort of stands out for you in terms of a coach-player relationship that meant the most to you, or where you felt like you had the most impact? SR: It’s hard to just like pick one, you know, in terms of like the most, or the most that meant to me. But you know, Vince Williams was probably the last player I worked with, like, one on one. And you know, my first year I worked with him, and he was a two-way player, playing in the G League and with the NBA team, and kinda going back and forth and, kind of, just, like, doing whatever was asked of him in the organization, and seeing the growth that he had from that, like kind of just staying ready and kind of getting him prepared for being a pro and all of that, to being in the rotation, you know, in the years to come and and really being a key contributor. [SOUND UP FROM MEMPHIS GRIZZLIES GAME BROADCAST] It's really special to be a part of their journey. Their journeys might take them to different places and to different levels, but when you get to work with them their rookie years, which I've really enjoyed being able to do with some of these players, it's a really special thing to kind of see like where they started and like what you're trying to help them with. And then they're such elite learners that they get there so fast. And I think that's just like a really rewarding part, is to help them on their journeys to achieving their goals and dreams as professional athletes. DG: Hm. Sounds like such a sort of I mean, there's an intimacy to these relationships to really understand what someone is driving for, and then to get in as a coach and play some kind of role in, like, helping them get to those things whatever they are, without kind of defining them for these people. SR: Right. Yeah. No, I mean, you're pulling for them, like you're in their corner, you're trying to help them succeed. Every bit of success they have helps the organization as well. So obviously, like, it's a win-win. But I think that sometimes it's also, you know, as a player development coach, like a lot of it is it's not just the X's and O's, and the film, and like the technique, but some of it is also just kind of like, you know, breathing confidence into them, you know, and like telling them how much you believe in them, and reminding them what their superpowers are, and sometimes like especially with role players, you wanna remember when you get on the court like what what you're really good at, and, you know, what you can bring to the table night in and night out. [MUSIC] DG: You can learn a lot about what is important to a coach by paying attention to their style. Take the Miami Heat’s Erik Spoelstra who prioritizes building up a player's strengths, maximizing their confidence, and tactically shielding them from their weaknesses. [SOUND UP FROM A MIAMI HEAT PRACTICE BROADCAST] Or Minnesota Lynx’s Cheryl Reeve, whose meticulous preparation and attention to detail means thoughtful game plans and strict accountability for her players. [SOUND UP FROM A MINNESOTA LYNX PRACTICE BROADCAST] Sonia’s approach uses a combination of data-driven insights with a keen observation of on the court performance to help fine tune their strategy. I know you consider yourself a real, analytics-driven coach. I don't know if I understand what that means in basketball. Like I think I get it more in baseball, but in basketball, like, what does it mean to be kind of analytical as opposed to not? SR: You know, I would say I'm a little bit more of a combo. Like there's a lot of numbers, and some of the numbers can be noisy and some of the numbers really fit. For me, it's really important that I see those numbers. I wanna see where we are in different categories that we've determined are important. And I wanna see trends in the league. You know, what are the best teams doing currently? What have the best teams been doing for the last like five years? Lineup data, individual player development data. I mean, there's just mounds and mounds of data that you can look at. So you still have to have a philosophy, you still have to have an approach to what's important here. Understand the players that you have, and so what, you know, what works for the team that's maybe the number one team in the league may not be a cut and paste of what you can do, just because it works for them. I think it's really important, even if you're looking at the numbers, you're looking at the data, maybe you're analytically driven so to speak, that like you have a really good feel, you know, you have to have the feel for the game. You have to be able to like use your eyes. You know, the eye test is so important. And so I think that, you know, you rely on that as a coach in like split-second decisions probably more so than you do on the numbers. But the numbers give you, like, a base. It gives you a way to look at things, a framework that I think is really important as well. DG: In many ways, Sonia’s journey of learning how to chase her dreams is helping her teach her players to do the same thing. After four years with the Grizzlies, Sonia ended up going to the WNBA, serving as assistant head coach for the defending WNBA champions, the New York Liberty. She was only there for one season, but in that short amount of time she helped lead the team to the playoffs. In 2026, she got to start a new venture — but this time, as head coach. So Seattle, your first year. Take me to the moment when, you know, you got that offer or realized that, you know, being a WNBA coach was on the table. SR: I mean it was just like, kind of, a dream come true. You know, our GM, Talisa Rhea, gave me a call, and gave me the offer, and you know, I was blown away. Like, I was very hopeful, of course, like going through an extensive interview process that it would work out. But you know, you know there's so many great candidates, and there's not very many of these head coaching opportunities in the league. And to have the opportunity with specifically the Storm is what made me so excited. You know, just an elite organization, you know, an ownership group that just supports and invests, and is ahead of the curve, always, you know, and the amount of winning that they've done as an organization, you know, the front office and how, like, visionary that they've been. and then just, you know, being able to like meet this new group of players, and get to kind of dive in with them. I was just really, really excited. DG: You know, I think back over my career and chances to interview, you know, WNBA players and other people involved in the league: Elena Delle Donne, Brittney Griner, and you know, so often it was the story of a league that faced some disadvantages compared to the NBA. You know, I think about Brittney, the reason that she's in Russia is because she had to keep making money and play in the off season. Like, how would you describe the state of the WNBA today? SR: It's in a really good place. You know, there's been tremendous growth. We're in our 30th season, and I look back to, right as I was graduating from college is when this league was starting. And hearing, you know, the ideas for the league, you know, where it was headed, the players that were in it, it was just really exciting back then, you know, like younger me, who was just such a pure fan of the game, that all of these players that, you know, I grew up watching, these college players that I looked up to that, you know, would just kinda disappear after they finished college, and they were playing in other countries and, you know, as as fans in America, you didn't really get to see them much more again. So, I was so excited that there was gonna be a league here domestically where I could see all of these stars compete in the same place. And 30 years later, you know, the growth that you're seeing, the arenas that are packed, you know, the media coverage, the number of games that we had, you know, the Seattle Storm had, that were national TV games, you know, that was more than I've been used to, you know, even coming from the NBA. So the league's in a really good place. I think it's well positioned, the talent is better than ever. It's a global game. You know, you're seeing so much talent coming from overseas, talent from here, not just going, you know, going to Europe, but you're seeing talent from leagues all over the world that are now, you know, coming to the W as well. So you know, I think the coaching is fantastic. There's some really great basketball minds in the league. And so, yeah, I think it's in a really good place, and it's well positioned to just continue to take steps forward. DG: Are we done talking about things like inequities and comparisons to the NBA? Like are we past that or is there still more work to do? SR: I think there's still more work to do, and I wouldn't just compare it to the NBA. I think just looking at it as its own thing, you know, like, how can we make this league better? How can we provide more access, more resources, continue to market our players, tell their stories, and market the league as a whole, you know? So I think that, of course, there's steps to be taken, there's growth. You know, where was the NBA 30 years into their, you know, young league and compared to where they are now? And you look at where we are now, and it's incredible. So you know, a lot of steps have been taken forward, and there's still certainly more work to be done. DG: Lots of headlines were, ‘You're the first WNBA coach of Indian descent.’ SR: Mm-hmm. DG: Is that a headline you embrace, don't like? What’s your reaction to it? [MUSIC] SR: Yeah, I don't think about it a lot, but when I see those things, like, I do recognize how important it is. You know, like representation matters, and you never know who's out there and whose little boy or girl of South Asian descent is, you know, trying out for their team, and maybe sees a story like this, or their parents see a story like this, and what that might mean to them. So I embrace it. I think it's a, you know, a huge responsibility that I'm, you know, fully aware of and like I said, embrace, and I just wanna make sure that there's a lot that come after me, and that, you know, kind of, I do a good job, so that door is wide open for that next generation. DG: Hm. What your parents' reaction been to this rise in your career, and coaching becoming more and more part of it and now you, you know, fulfilling the dream as you say, and coaching in the WNBA? SR: I think they're really proud. You know, I think they're really proud. They've really enjoyed this journey. You know, they became the biggest Grizzlies fans, during those four years, after watching the Celtics for a lifetime. They became the biggest, you know, Liberty fans… DG: You converted Celtics fans. That's very impressive. That takes a lot. SR: Yeah. Yep. You know, Liberty fans last year, and now they're just, so all in with you know, with the Storm. You know, they're still back in Boston, so they're losing a lot of sleep having to stay up late and watch these games that tip off on, like, the West Coast and all of that. But I think proud, and they're, you know, fully invested in this journey with me. DG: Let me just finish with a really simple question. What do you love most about coaching? SR: There's a lot of things I love about it. I mean, I love being able to be a part of a team. I love being able to compete, you know, compete to win. But I really like the teaching aspect of it. So, you know, the relationships with the players, how rewarding it is to teach, to, you know, help them to succeed in their careers, to come up with a game plan that really maximizes what they do best, and then, you know, put them in positions to succeed. And that's just like, it's so fun to do that. It's fun to do that night in and night out, and it's really fun to do that, you know, together with your coaching staff, with your players all, you know, as a unit. DG: Is it gonna be hard to watch the playoffs from the outside this first year? SR: Yeah, for sure. I love playoffs, you know, like the the challenges and the the unique problems, the aspect of, like, a series, playing the same team over and over, and it just becomes like a problem-solving kind of exercise, and sometimes it's a little bit of a war of attrition and all of that as well. It's awesome. I'm looking forward to us being back in there. DG: Well, we’ll hopefully see you there next year. I got a feeling. SR: Yeah. DG: Sonia, what a pleasure talking to you. Thank you so much. Really appreciate it. SR: Thanks for having me. [THEME MUSIC] DG: Next time, on Sports in America: Dave Winfield made a name for himself for the New York Yankees, one of the most storied franchises in Major League Baseball, and the one that made him the highest-paid player in the league. You might be surprised how Dave himself looks back at that time. DAVE WINFIELD: Those were the worst years of my life. It was planned to disable me, dismember me, break me. DG: For a long time, Dave Winfield kept his opinions about the very public feud with Yankees owner George Steinbrenner to himself. But that has now changed. DW: I just didn't talk about this to a lot of people. But at age 74, I'm entitled to do this. I get the last word. DG: That is next time, on Sports in America. This is Sports in America. I’m your host, David Greene. Our executive producers are Joan Isabella and Tom Grahsler. Our senior producer is Michael Olcott. Our producer is Michaela Winberg, and our associate producer is Bibiana Correa. Our engineer is Mike Villers. Our theme music is composed by Emma Munger. Our talent booker is Britt Kahn. Our tile artwork was created by Bea Walling. Sports in America is a production of WHYY in Philadelphia and is distributed by PRX. Some of our interviews were originally created by Religion of Sports, with special thanks to Adam Schlossman. You can find Sports in America on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, the iHeartRadio app, you know, wherever you get your podcasts. And we also wanna hear from you. How about you drop us a line? You can write us at sportsinamerica@whyy.org. That’s sportsinamerica@whyy.org. Thanks, everyone. And we will see you next time for Sports in America.