Latest / North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast / Sixty games in, the Cubs are adrift

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Sixty games in, the Cubs are adrift · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: It's not there, and so that's why this month of
0:03
Speaker 1: June I think will be fascinating to see if they
0:06
Speaker 1: can finally get their act together.
0:12
Speaker 2: Welcome into Northside Territory. I'm Sahade Sharma with my co
0:17
Speaker 2: host Patrick Mooney, where they're your Cubs beat writers for
0:21
Speaker 2: the Athletic.
0:22
Speaker 3: This is your Cubs podcast.
0:25
Speaker 2: We are going to be talking about the reeling Cubs,
0:28
Speaker 2: losers of six straight series. Patrick, I said it before
0:32
Speaker 2: this weekend, this is where you got to start to
0:34
Speaker 2: make ground. I looked it up before play on Sunday.
0:38
Speaker 2: Twenty five straight games. They're in the midst of twenty
0:42
Speaker 2: five straight games against teams that are not five hundred
0:45
Speaker 2: below five hundred, and that started with this series with
0:48
Speaker 2: the Rets. So it's not like it's over. That stretch
0:52
Speaker 2: has just begun. This is the stretch where you start
0:56
Speaker 2: to make some moves in theory, either you're one of
0:59
Speaker 2: the teams those teams in the middle, or you make
1:03
Speaker 2: some ground and you push up and you say like, hey,
1:05
Speaker 2: we're right there with the Brewers.
1:08
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean we're sixty games in.
1:10
Speaker 1: I think that's a good snapshot. You got a team
1:14
Speaker 1: that's under five hundred negative run differential lost six straight series,
1:20
Speaker 1: including us all four of your divisional opponents, and as
1:26
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not a big math guy, but like
1:29
Speaker 1: to get to ninety wins at this point, they got
1:33
Speaker 1: to go sixty one and forty one.
1:36
Speaker 4: Don't see that happening.
1:37
Speaker 1: I think this start has definitely ratcheted up the pressure
1:42
Speaker 1: on this team. It's significantly decreased the margin for error,
1:47
Speaker 1: and it's led to a lot of, you know, wide.
1:52
Speaker 4: Ranging questions of like where this team is headed, what
1:54
Speaker 4: do you got? What do you see coming?
1:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, one question, I see a lot that I hear
2:00
Speaker 2: a lot, and and that now people are are starting
2:04
Speaker 2: to doubt the move. Is like, what's the point of
2:07
Speaker 2: hiring Craig Council if you're going to get the same results?
2:11
Speaker 3: Right? Here's here's the thing.
2:13
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of silly to start questioning Craig
2:17
Speaker 2: Counsel as a manager. I think it's it's an overreaction. Yes,
2:21
Speaker 2: the Brewers are playing very well. I wouldn't suggest that
2:26
Speaker 2: that has anything to do with Craig Council leaving. Like
2:29
Speaker 2: we've said before on this podcast, I think that has
2:31
Speaker 2: to do with they're a well run organization, like the
2:35
Speaker 2: Cubs need to get to that point where no matter
2:38
Speaker 2: who's in charge, no matter who you trade, you have,
2:42
Speaker 2: you make the right moves and you're able to kind
2:44
Speaker 2: of stay at a high level. But Craig Counsel is
2:50
Speaker 2: like he's managing a team that's not playing as well.
2:54
Speaker 2: Part of what you know. When a lot of last
2:59
Speaker 2: year when we'd talk about David Ross, I felt like
3:02
Speaker 2: my point kept being like, this is more than David Ross.
3:05
Speaker 2: Is David Ross a great manager?
3:07
Speaker 3: I don't.
3:07
Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that, not yet. He was probably
3:10
Speaker 2: an average manager, right the big If you want to
3:13
Speaker 2: point to some issues from last year, it's probably overworking
3:17
Speaker 2: the bullpen. He went pedal to the medal kind of
3:19
Speaker 2: out of necessity, right, Yeah, they were ten games under
3:22
Speaker 2: and he had to like ride his relievers who only
3:25
Speaker 2: had like four of that he could trust.
3:29
Speaker 3: It didn't work out.
3:30
Speaker 2: They ran out of gas, right, But the team Also,
3:33
Speaker 2: if you want to point to issues, right if you
3:36
Speaker 2: say like this team should be better, this team should
3:38
Speaker 2: be winning more games, and there were underlying numbers like
3:41
Speaker 2: base runs, pig daggory and record which is basically run
3:44
Speaker 2: differential that said they should have those numbers aren't saying
3:48
Speaker 2: that those numbers right now have the Cubs, like you said,
3:50
Speaker 2: they're minus twelve and run differential base runs has them.
3:54
Speaker 2: They're actually winning them won one more game than expected,
3:59
Speaker 2: Like they are better team than they should be with
4:01
Speaker 2: the way they're performing now. Now, is that on Craig
4:05
Speaker 2: council that they're not performing as well?
4:07
Speaker 3: I think it's the players.
4:08
Speaker 2: I think just like last year when we were when
4:11
Speaker 2: when people were complaining, I think majority of this falls
4:14
Speaker 2: on the players. They're not delivering. They're not performing. Like
4:18
Speaker 2: I don't know what buttons He's supposed to push to
4:21
Speaker 2: make this a better team right now? Uh, they they're
4:25
Speaker 2: trying all sorts of things, evidenced by calling up David Body,
4:30
Speaker 2: you know. So it's not like they're he's he's literally
4:33
Speaker 2: talking about David Body being a power bat against lefties.
4:38
Speaker 2: And I'm kind of taken aback by this, by like this,
4:42
Speaker 2: this can't be the difference for this team. This can't
4:45
Speaker 2: be what what flips a switch? That has to be
4:50
Speaker 2: the Stars playing like stars? And like if you wanted
4:54
Speaker 2: to point to Saturday as like some moment, it almost
4:58
Speaker 2: immediately disappears in the second inning yesterday, right yeah.
5:04
Speaker 4: Yeah.
5:05
Speaker 2: Momentum is not a thing really in baseball. It isn't
5:08
Speaker 2: a game.
5:08
Speaker 3: I believe.
5:09
Speaker 2: I believe within the game, there is momentum. Saturday, they
5:14
Speaker 2: swung that momentum, right. It felt like it all went
5:16
Speaker 2: towards the Reds when Saya drops that ball and he
5:20
Speaker 2: hits the Grand Slam, and you feel like, Okay, they've
5:23
Speaker 2: swung the momentum in their favor. Right, Yeah, second inning
5:29
Speaker 2: on Sunday it felt like a moment Ben Brown loads
5:34
Speaker 2: the bas'es, no outs, and it was like a soft hit,
5:38
Speaker 2: a hard hit on a good pitch. And then he
5:40
Speaker 2: hit a batter that was kind of like, if you
5:43
Speaker 2: look at the replay, that dude just stuck his leg
5:45
Speaker 2: into the pitch. But yeah, right, he got on bass,
5:49
Speaker 2: basses loaded, Jonathan India hits a sac fly, Will Benson
5:53
Speaker 2: strikes out, and you're thinking one run, bases loaded, no outs,
5:56
Speaker 2: that's momentum in cups favor. If Ben Brown gets out
5:59
Speaker 2: of this two on TJ. Friedel, clubs are getting out
6:01
Speaker 2: of this. And then he leaves a curveball, just hangs
6:05
Speaker 2: it in the zone middle middle. Freedol doesn't miss it,
6:08
Speaker 2: which the Cubs have missed a lot of those pitches too,
6:12
Speaker 2: and it goes from one nothing to four nothing. It
6:15
Speaker 2: goes from Ben Brown wriggling out of a jam to
6:19
Speaker 2: the Reds kind of took advantage of that moment, and
6:24
Speaker 2: the Cubs just have not done that. They have not
6:26
Speaker 2: taken advantage of any moments that they have, any of
6:30
Speaker 2: those small mistakes that the other team made outside of
6:33
Speaker 2: the first couple weeks of the season. They just have
6:35
Speaker 2: not done that. Like their numbers with runners in scoring
6:38
Speaker 2: position with two outs, and I'm not saying like you're
6:41
Speaker 2: supposed to have be awesome in those situations all throughout
6:43
Speaker 2: a season, but they can swing like how how you
6:47
Speaker 2: feel about a game, how you feel about a team,
6:49
Speaker 2: how you feel about an offense. And the Cubs are
6:51
Speaker 2: like batting like one ninety something with runners in scoring
6:55
Speaker 2: position and two outs. Third worst in baseball, I think
7:00
Speaker 2: the Cardinals and White Socks. The White Socks are just
7:03
Speaker 2: like the worst at every Like you put in any
7:05
Speaker 2: statue into fans, it's like, who's the worst, it's the
7:11
Speaker 2: White Sucks. Well, well, we'll get to the White Sox
7:14
Speaker 2: at another and it's soon, like pretty soon.
7:16
Speaker 1: In that is a big crossdown preview of just go
7:19
Speaker 1: to whatever category and fangrass and see who's twenty and thirtieth,
7:23
Speaker 1: and there's good chances that you'll see like the Cubs
7:25
Speaker 1: and or White Sox and almost.
7:27
Speaker 4: Every including you meet me in the parking lots as well.
7:33
Speaker 2: So I mean, if you can't, like there's so many,
7:36
Speaker 2: like the runners in scoring position stats are at a
7:39
Speaker 2: point where it has to flip, right. It's it's one
7:43
Speaker 2: of those things that I'm like, the offense may not
7:47
Speaker 2: be good this year, but also like runners in scoring
7:49
Speaker 2: position can't just can't be this bad all season long.
7:54
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm with you on the momentum stuff.
7:58
Speaker 1: Of I think that's just a hired kind of concept
8:02
Speaker 1: in general of like, hey, this late game comeback that
8:06
Speaker 1: I mean, we were talking to Dansby in the Wrigley
8:10
Speaker 1: Clubhouse and it was technically Sunday morning.
8:13
Speaker 4: This was well after midnight.
8:14
Speaker 1: They had to you know, and one player was joking like,
8:18
Speaker 1: you'll be seeing me in the same clothes, you know,
8:22
Speaker 1: for pregame tomorrow, and then another reliever was joking, like
8:27
Speaker 1: I think it was stretch was like noon was like
8:29
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go just gonna go straight to the bullpen.
8:32
Speaker 1: When I show up to the ballpark, I can do
8:34
Speaker 1: my stretching throws there, like it was just kind of
8:36
Speaker 1: a delirious moment or the like, hey, battling back in
8:40
Speaker 1: the ninth to only lose by one or two runs
8:43
Speaker 1: instead of three or four runs, Like.
8:45
Speaker 4: Don't care.
8:47
Speaker 1: But I do think there's momentum within seasons, Like I
8:49
Speaker 1: think confidence comes and goes. I think there is organizational
8:55
Speaker 1: momentum of like if certain things hit, then who knows
9:01
Speaker 1: what that will mean for the front office or ownership,
9:04
Speaker 1: what they're willing to do moving forward, and especially around
9:06
Speaker 1: a team like the Cubs.
9:07
Speaker 4: Like we've talked about this before.
9:09
Speaker 1: The highs are exaggerated and the lows are exaggerated as well,
9:12
Speaker 1: and it's like impossible to totally wall all.
9:15
Speaker 4: Of that off.
9:16
Speaker 1: And you know, we do see here Craig Council hasn't
9:20
Speaker 1: changed and I don't think he's like absolutely at fault
9:25
Speaker 1: for everything that's gone on in the Cubs organization that
9:27
Speaker 1: preceded his arrival. But it's hard to say like he's
9:30
Speaker 1: doing a great job. I mean, you are what your
9:32
Speaker 1: record says you are, and we haven't seen some huge
9:37
Speaker 1: transformation in this team and now I do think within
9:41
Speaker 1: the clubhouse they would say what they're expecting is that
9:46
Speaker 1: August September extra energy and stamina to go all the
9:51
Speaker 1: way through. I think that sees a pretty conservative manager
9:54
Speaker 1: in that regard, and.
9:55
Speaker 4: That's where you know, I think in the bullpen they're
9:57
Speaker 4: gonna they.
9:58
Speaker 1: Expect to feel that, to not feel run into the
10:01
Speaker 1: ground shortly after the trade deadline.
10:03
Speaker 3: But.
10:05
Speaker 4: A momentum to like Ben Brown.
10:08
Speaker 1: I thought that was a great moment to zoom in
10:11
Speaker 1: on for your Takeaways column today in the Athletic wrapping
10:15
Speaker 1: up that series of like, obviously you can't get down
10:20
Speaker 1: whatever four or five runs early, that's not a winning formula.
10:23
Speaker 1: But part of this year is Ben Brown figuring stuff out.
10:26
Speaker 1: And like we all know he has the physicality to
10:29
Speaker 1: be a major league starter. He's got great stuff. He's
10:33
Speaker 1: like a curious, thoughtful guy who wants to get better.
10:37
Speaker 1: So he's probably gonna learn a lot from that. You know,
10:40
Speaker 1: that was a big moment, did not execute. You would
10:43
Speaker 1: hope it's gonna better next.
10:44
Speaker 4: Time, But like.
10:47
Speaker 1: We don't know how long Ben Brown is gonna like
10:49
Speaker 1: stay healthier, how long his run will last. And so
10:54
Speaker 1: it's like if he's throwing seven innings, Like you gotta
10:59
Speaker 1: kind of ride that wave with him, you know, forever
11:02
Speaker 1: long it lasts. And like it's hard to just think like, oh,
11:07
Speaker 1: Brown's like good, so like let's just passle them in.
11:09
Speaker 4: For the next five years. That's just not how pitching works.
11:13
Speaker 4: So you kind of have to take advantage with this stuff.
11:16
Speaker 4: And that's what I think.
11:18
Speaker 1: This past month field like just a massively wasted opportunity
11:22
Speaker 1: for the Cups.
11:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're not taking advantage of the good pitching, right,
11:27
Speaker 2: There's there's different wasted opportunities. I guess in last year,
11:31
Speaker 2: the wasted opportunity was like this team is playing well
11:34
Speaker 2: and somehow they're losing games. This wasted opportunity is just
11:38
Speaker 2: like wasting a subset of the team's like high level performance. Yeah,
11:43
Speaker 2: they they're they're starting pitching is performing like a top
11:46
Speaker 2: five unit in baseball and and they're not winning enough games. So,
11:53
Speaker 2: like you said, you don't know how long that lasts,
11:56
Speaker 2: especially when you have a guy like Ben Brown is
11:58
Speaker 2: a big part of it.
11:59
Speaker 3: Who nothing against Ben Brown.
12:00
Speaker 2: He's going to wear down at some point, Like I
12:03
Speaker 2: think he's I don't know what his career high in
12:07
Speaker 2: innings is, but it's not like significantly above one hundred.
12:11
Speaker 2: And he's already at what like sixty he's at he's
12:15
Speaker 2: at fifty one, and his career high is like like
12:19
Speaker 2: a little over one hundred. Like I said, so one
12:21
Speaker 2: hundred and three, I believe. So that's, you know, that's
12:27
Speaker 2: he's coming up close on that. All he's already halfway
12:31
Speaker 2: there and we're you know, a third of the way
12:32
Speaker 2: through the season. Now, well we'll see, we'll see what
12:36
Speaker 2: type of innings limit he'll be put on. Jordan Wick's
12:41
Speaker 2: is close to coming back.
12:42
Speaker 3: I believe they.
12:43
Speaker 2: I think he made a start yesterday. Was that yesterday
12:46
Speaker 2: Sunday at Triple A, and and it council didn't have
12:51
Speaker 2: anything definitive to say there outside of what we'll map
12:54
Speaker 2: out next steps once he's you know, once that starts
12:58
Speaker 2: done and he's he comes out of it healthy, assuming
13:01
Speaker 2: he's healthy. So I mean, maybe that's how they limit
13:04
Speaker 2: Ben Brown's innings. But also he's been pretty damn good.
13:08
Speaker 2: Do you want to take him out of the rotation?
13:10
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it like he was pretty
13:14
Speaker 2: self aware after that game, like you can't make mistakes
13:17
Speaker 2: like that on O two It's very funny to see
13:21
Speaker 2: a guy whose biggest question was like can this guy
13:23
Speaker 2: throw enough strikes to like he threw too many strikes
13:26
Speaker 2: in this one bad start that he's had. He needs
13:31
Speaker 2: to throw a chase curveball there, Like that's that's pretty
13:35
Speaker 2: you know, it's pretty basic stuff. Right in baseball, you
13:39
Speaker 2: get ahead O two, you don't there something middle middle,
13:42
Speaker 2: which could just speak to command in general. He's not
13:45
Speaker 2: like some pinpoint command artist. Yeah, I don't know where
13:52
Speaker 2: like I'm it's starting to get to a point where
13:56
Speaker 2: even the most optimistic person has to start saying, like
14:00
Speaker 2: where where is this season going?
14:03
Speaker 3: And is this yes, it's you know you.
14:08
Speaker 2: This White Sox series is going to tell us a lot,
14:10
Speaker 2: right Well, we'll preview that to in our next podcast.
14:13
Speaker 2: But I just think, like you split with the White Sox,
14:17
Speaker 2: even a split, like it's just unacceptable, and it becomes
14:20
Speaker 2: a thing where it's like, what is wrong with this
14:23
Speaker 2: team right now? They're not they don't look to be.
14:25
Speaker 2: I don't think they're bad. I don't think they're a
14:29
Speaker 2: bad team. I just don't like, I just don't know,
14:33
Speaker 2: like they're just yeah, like the yeah, right now, they're
14:36
Speaker 2: not good like things flip, things change. It's you know,
14:39
Speaker 2: sixty games into a season. Baseball is a weird sport
14:43
Speaker 2: where a couple hot months is all you need, maybe
14:46
Speaker 2: a really hot stretch. Two years ago, Matt Gealb just
14:50
Speaker 2: wrote about the two year anniversary of Robbie Thompson taking
14:54
Speaker 2: over the Phillies and that team was dead eight games
14:59
Speaker 2: under five hundred around this point in the season and
15:01
Speaker 2: rattled off, I think like a fifteen and two run,
15:04
Speaker 2: you know, didn't I think they won like eighty six
15:06
Speaker 2: eighty seven games that season.
15:08
Speaker 4: And then you're suggesting the Cubs should change their manager.
15:11
Speaker 2: Maybe if cal and have Ryan Flaherty the manager. But
15:18
Speaker 2: I mean, so so weird, Like baseball is filled with
15:21
Speaker 2: stuff like that. But you can't, like we were talking
15:24
Speaker 2: about this last year when they were going through the run.
15:27
Speaker 3: That can't be the talk year after year.
15:29
Speaker 2: Well maybe they'll get hot and overcome this bad stretch
15:32
Speaker 2: of play. You can't constantly be overcoming bad stretch of play.
15:36
Speaker 2: Now I'm not saying I'm not saying you can't be
15:38
Speaker 2: like have bad stretches and can't be average throughout the season,
15:41
Speaker 2: but like this is now a month long stretch of
15:45
Speaker 2: bad baseball, especially on offense, and at a certain point
15:50
Speaker 2: you have to just say, like what what.
15:52
Speaker 3: Is this team? Is this who they are?
15:55
Speaker 2: I'm not like I said, I'm going to give it
15:58
Speaker 2: this these twenty that's like we're now twenty two games.
16:02
Speaker 3: I'm giving it.
16:02
Speaker 2: I want to see what they do in these twenty
16:04
Speaker 2: two games, like because yes they could, they could absolutely
16:08
Speaker 2: go fifteen and seven or you know, or better around
16:13
Speaker 2: there in these next twenty two and you're like, ah,
16:15
Speaker 2: there it is. They're beating up on average or bad teams,
16:19
Speaker 2: like they should build up their confidence, go on a run,
16:22
Speaker 2: start competing. But it's here's the reality, Like the Brewis
16:27
Speaker 2: are hot right now. But I was looking that they
16:30
Speaker 2: were seventeen and eight and the Cubs were seventeen and nine,
16:34
Speaker 2: and that's when the Cubs started to collapse. Seventeen nine
16:37
Speaker 2: and they started to collapse. The brus are only like
16:41
Speaker 2: four games over five hundred since that point, so it's
16:44
Speaker 2: not like they're on like they're on a nice little
16:46
Speaker 2: run now, but they're not on this insane tear since
16:49
Speaker 2: that point. The Cubs just needed to kind of play
16:51
Speaker 2: five hundred ball from that point, and they'd be like
16:54
Speaker 2: right there with them.
16:57
Speaker 4: Yeah.
16:57
Speaker 1: I mean we talked about Ben Brown earlier because it
17:00
Speaker 1: is pertinent and he's like an interesting new player and
17:04
Speaker 1: it will be fun to watch or curiosity like how.
17:08
Speaker 4: They handle it. But he didn't make the opening day roster.
17:12
Speaker 1: They've gotten basically like a best case outcome for him
17:17
Speaker 1: thus far. Like it goes back to you look at
17:21
Speaker 1: the Brewers' best players and like how they're performing. I
17:25
Speaker 1: mean don't have a position player like William Contreras, like
17:29
Speaker 1: a legit MVP guy who's.
17:32
Speaker 4: Kind of carrying the team.
17:34
Speaker 1: I mean terrang A Damas, I mean Joy Ortiz is
17:39
Speaker 1: a guy recently acquired. I mean even Christian Yelich is
17:42
Speaker 1: having a really nice, very good season, you know, and
17:47
Speaker 1: the Cubs have a former MVP.
17:49
Speaker 4: Who's been playing well but not like great.
17:53
Speaker 1: And it's just the stuff like that where you're like
17:56
Speaker 1: that this group has been together for a little bit
17:58
Speaker 1: now and they've said continuity helps, and I'm sure that's
18:04
Speaker 1: true to a certain extent, and I think each deal
18:09
Speaker 1: or transaction has made sense. Like very rarely have the
18:15
Speaker 1: Cubs done something you're like, well that was crazy, like
18:17
Speaker 1: where did that come from?
18:19
Speaker 4: But like put together it has not been particularly inspiring.
18:26
Speaker 1: I mean we were talking about this in the press
18:29
Speaker 1: box on Saturday night of like when that ball went
18:32
Speaker 1: up to sayah, like part of me felt like he
18:37
Speaker 1: could drop that. You know, I'm not like saying like, oh,
18:39
Speaker 1: I called it, but like the way he just hung
18:41
Speaker 1: up there, the way he's played that night in Atlanta,
18:45
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't totally stunned, And it's just like stuff
18:50
Speaker 1: like that, as like, yeah, he hit the Grand Slam
18:52
Speaker 1: to kind of you know, even out his plus minus
18:55
Speaker 1: on that.
18:55
Speaker 3: But like.
18:57
Speaker 1: Then Justin Steele really like laboring, like all those extra
19:00
Speaker 1: pitches and like more stress instead of like a game
19:03
Speaker 1: where you know, we're going alternate universe stuff. But like
19:08
Speaker 1: what if they get that four on lead early and
19:10
Speaker 1: Justin Steel cruises and then you're like Bullpen is uh,
19:14
Speaker 1: you know organized for the next day. Like all like
19:16
Speaker 1: all that stuff adds up and these that the Cubs
19:21
Speaker 1: have not been doing, Like it's setting up kind of
19:26
Speaker 1: like last year event them having to expend so much
19:29
Speaker 1: to get back above five hundred and give themselves some
19:33
Speaker 1: breathing room, and then you look up and there's still
19:35
Speaker 1: what like two months, six weeks, a month left.
19:38
Speaker 4: In the season and like how much do you have
19:40
Speaker 4: left in the tech?
19:41
Speaker 3: Right?
19:42
Speaker 2: You don't want to fall any further back than you
19:45
Speaker 2: are right now. Right now is you've reached this point
19:48
Speaker 2: where it's like okay, like there's no more waiting, there's
19:51
Speaker 2: no more like let's see what they can do.
19:54
Speaker 3: It's like that they have to it has to start, right.
19:57
Speaker 4: Man, seven and a half back already, right.
20:01
Speaker 2: You're talking about you're you're starting to think about, like
20:04
Speaker 2: what's the wildcard situation? Which that the reality is, it's
20:09
Speaker 2: it's very doable because there's like three good teams in
20:14
Speaker 2: then l with Philly, l A And and Milwaukee and
20:17
Speaker 2: I think that's right, and then and then the rest
20:19
Speaker 2: like yes, Atlanta, So there's four good teams and Atlanta
20:24
Speaker 2: is playing well, but they're without their superstar, right Audres
20:29
Speaker 2: are only two over. It's I mean, give me a
20:31
Speaker 2: break here. The Cardinals are in the final wildcard spot,
20:35
Speaker 2: like so you know these things can turn the Cardinals
20:39
Speaker 2: where everyone said they were dead a.
20:42
Speaker 3: Few weeks ago. So like it.
20:46
Speaker 2: So baseball is just sometimes a little stupid. But the
20:49
Speaker 2: way like it doesn't make sense. But but that's that's
20:53
Speaker 2: what we get for analyzing a game, uh you know weekly, daily,
20:59
Speaker 2: when it's when it's spread out over six months, right,
21:02
Speaker 2: it's like these weird things happen and and sometimes it
21:05
Speaker 2: doesn't make much sense. But like I said, it needs
21:09
Speaker 2: to turn. This isn't. This isn't.
21:13
Speaker 3: This has gone on long.
21:14
Speaker 2: Enough to the point where you have to say, like,
21:16
Speaker 2: we need to see some some real action and something
21:21
Speaker 2: happen with the team to make you feel like, okay,
21:24
Speaker 2: where this is? This is the guy you can trust
21:26
Speaker 2: to kind of turn things. I was looking at good offenses, right,
21:30
Speaker 2: and we've talked about this a lot, Patrick about the
21:33
Speaker 2: lack of a of a superstar, and that the offense
21:37
Speaker 2: is starting to show some signs right like where you're like, okay,
21:42
Speaker 2: that okay. The players that you that are kind of
21:46
Speaker 2: built around are playing decently well, right, Like say Suzuki's
21:50
Speaker 2: starting to hit. Cody Bellinger had a nice three hit game.
21:55
Speaker 2: Ian Happ has been a little inconsistent, but he's hitting.
21:59
Speaker 2: Uh So you have these producers, these guys that should
22:03
Speaker 2: be good enough to like be on winning teams, right,
22:09
Speaker 2: But where's the guy that you like? I really think
22:12
Speaker 2: some of these these two out situations, these runners in
22:15
Speaker 2: scoring position you have, you have a Wan Soto in there,
22:18
Speaker 2: you have a I mean, like just go to whatever
22:21
Speaker 2: offense you want to go to the Houston Astros and
22:24
Speaker 2: Kyle Tucker right, Aaron Judge, Juan Soto, whoever on the Dodgers,
22:30
Speaker 2: William Contreros, Christian Yalich right, Donner Henderson on Baltimore, Bryce Harper,
22:35
Speaker 2: like those type of players, right that you have one,
22:38
Speaker 2: just one of those, and you surround them with guys
22:41
Speaker 2: that the Cubs already have that are like one twenty one,
22:44
Speaker 2: twenty five. Maybe they have a good season, it's one
22:47
Speaker 2: thirty five, one forty way to runs great at plus
22:50
Speaker 2: and now you're talking about a different team. It's just
22:55
Speaker 2: hard to find those guys, right, either either your aggressive
22:59
Speaker 2: and the trademarket and free agency, or.
23:02
Speaker 3: You develop one.
23:04
Speaker 2: Jed seems to be going the route of like wanting
23:06
Speaker 2: to develop one. It hasn't happened, Like could it be?
23:10
Speaker 2: Like I felt like, say, I could have been that
23:13
Speaker 2: guy coming into the season. That injury really derailed any
23:17
Speaker 2: chance of it. He still could be. He still could
23:20
Speaker 2: end the season with like a one forty five Wight arndscreer.
23:22
Speaker 2: Plus we've seen him get insanely hot. It's not like
23:25
Speaker 2: he's having a bad offensive season overall. It's just it'd
23:30
Speaker 2: be real nice for this team to have that guy
23:33
Speaker 2: to kind of stabilize things when when it feels like
23:36
Speaker 2: it's getting out of hand and it's like, oh, wait,
23:38
Speaker 2: we still have this guy and he's going to go
23:40
Speaker 2: off in a game. Oh he's going to come through.
23:43
Speaker 2: He's up with two outs and a man on third,
23:46
Speaker 2: He's going to drive that guy in. He'll find a
23:48
Speaker 2: way to get that hit.
23:50
Speaker 4: I was saying the exact same thing. It felt like
23:54
Speaker 4: on my Twitter timeline.
23:55
Speaker 1: There's just a lot of Soto and Judge out in
23:59
Speaker 1: staff Cisco this weekend, just seeing a lot of like awesome.
24:04
Speaker 4: His highlights. And a friend of mine asked.
24:07
Speaker 1: Me yesterday, like, who's the best offensive player on the Cubs,
24:11
Speaker 1: And I paused because it was sort of like a
24:13
Speaker 1: trick question. He was genuinely curious, and I said, well,
24:16
Speaker 1: maybe Mike Talkman has been for a long stretch.
24:20
Speaker 3: Of this season.
24:21
Speaker 1: I think you would, you know, talking to Ian Happen
24:25
Speaker 1: earlier in the year, I think he might say that
24:27
Speaker 1: saying is probably the most like talented hitter, And I
24:30
Speaker 1: think there are people within the Cubs organization who kind of,
24:34
Speaker 1: you know, have looked at Saya as having all the
24:36
Speaker 1: attributes of that hitter you described Sada, but that has
24:40
Speaker 1: not translated on a consistent, consistent, impactful basis.
24:46
Speaker 4: We've talked about Christopher Morels maybe being that guy someday.
24:53
Speaker 1: But his actual statistics have not borne out what we
24:58
Speaker 1: see and some of the other data points and just
25:03
Speaker 1: his physical traits that you think, oh, like, this is
25:06
Speaker 1: what a really talented middle of the order hitter could be.
25:10
Speaker 4: He hasn't quite been that. He's been okay, but not
25:14
Speaker 4: like wow.
25:17
Speaker 1: And then Bellinger has been that guy in the past,
25:21
Speaker 1: but I don't know if he's ever gonna be that
25:22
Speaker 1: guy again. And he's he's versatile, he's valuable, a really
25:28
Speaker 1: good nice fit on this team. But like, I'm pretty
25:32
Speaker 1: sure he's making more money this year than Bryce Harper, right,
25:34
Speaker 1: I mean, and like, like that's kind of the strategphy
25:37
Speaker 1: that he's getting paid.
25:38
Speaker 4: On on an annual basis. And it's a good.
25:42
Speaker 1: Player, but not like a wow performance yet. Maybe he
25:47
Speaker 1: gets hot and then you know, Dansby got paid for
25:53
Speaker 1: his defense in the position he is in. I still
25:56
Speaker 1: think he'll be you know, fine in the long run.
25:57
Speaker 1: He hasn't been like great offensively, but I still saw
26:02
Speaker 1: enough last year. You know, I get why they did that.
26:06
Speaker 1: If I was a.
26:07
Speaker 4: GM, I'd like having him up the middle. It's same
26:09
Speaker 4: with same with Nico.
26:10
Speaker 1: I think, a really impactful player on a good team,
26:16
Speaker 1: but again, like someone who might make an All Star
26:19
Speaker 1: team in his career, not like a perennial like MVP
26:25
Speaker 1: vote getter. And then we're just going up and down
26:29
Speaker 1: the lineup around a diamond. I mean the Cubs catching situation.
26:32
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna be writing about that soon, or
26:34
Speaker 1: maybe you did write about it and then Willie Harrison
26:36
Speaker 1: Nick Magical ruined your Friday afternoon. But like the catching
26:40
Speaker 1: situation has not is one of the worst in baseball.
26:43
Speaker 4: And that's like Jan Gums has.
26:44
Speaker 1: Been very good throughout his career and Miguel may I
26:47
Speaker 1: could have a very long career, but at this moment
26:49
Speaker 1: we talk about momentum, it's not there.
26:52
Speaker 4: And so that's why this.
26:54
Speaker 1: Month of June I think will be fascinating to see
26:57
Speaker 1: if they can finally get their act together.
27:01
Speaker 2: Uh, you want to you want to hear something good.
27:04
Speaker 2: You want to hear something that they did well. I
27:07
Speaker 2: don't have the exact numbers, but just anecdotally watching the games,
27:12
Speaker 2: they controlled the Reds running game. Yeah, that's right, Like
27:17
Speaker 2: they they had like at least they had two pickoffs yesterday.
27:20
Speaker 2: I think there were more. I think there were others
27:23
Speaker 2: in the over the weekend.
27:27
Speaker 3: So there's that. Uh. They also get only Dayla Cruz
27:32
Speaker 3: off the bases, which helps when you want to control
27:34
Speaker 3: the running game.
27:35
Speaker 2: Yes, but yeah, I mean, I guess I'm grasping its
27:40
Speaker 2: straws when I say that, and I'm I'm kind of,
27:43
Speaker 2: you know, tongue firmly in cheek when I say that,
27:45
Speaker 2: because I came into the weekend. Yes, I was ready
27:48
Speaker 2: to write about the catchers and and how bad they've been.
27:52
Speaker 2: Pretty much everything that you can measure right there. There
27:56
Speaker 2: are certainly intangibles and when you go around that room
27:58
Speaker 2: and talk to the pictures, even off the record, I
28:01
Speaker 2: don't hear any grumbling, and that's not always been the case. Yeah,
28:07
Speaker 2: So you can take that for what it is. But
28:11
Speaker 2: numbers wise, what we can, what you know, what we
28:14
Speaker 2: have access to that they're not great, And yeah, I
28:17
Speaker 2: still plan on writing about that. One of the things
28:20
Speaker 2: Council said when I asked him about it, was like
28:22
Speaker 2: we about the ability to control the running game. Was
28:26
Speaker 2: we have to help them, And I think that, you know,
28:29
Speaker 2: he showed me what that meant over the next three
28:32
Speaker 2: games by throwing over there a lot at first and
28:37
Speaker 2: getting a lot of pickoffs. And I think one of
28:40
Speaker 2: the pickoffs was Drew Smiley.
28:43
Speaker 3: I want to.
28:43
Speaker 2: Say, I believe it was. Yeah, Drew Smiley pitched yesterday
28:47
Speaker 2: on Sunday. I believe it was the third pickoff. He
28:50
Speaker 2: went there a third time and got the guy. So
28:53
Speaker 2: you know that they were being aggressive with that. So yeah,
28:57
Speaker 2: it's just.
28:57
Speaker 3: One little, one little thing.
29:00
Speaker 2: That's I think that's good coaching, that's good managing. That's
29:03
Speaker 2: that's noticing an issue with your team and saying, how
29:08
Speaker 2: do we correct this? Well, we can't make the catchers,
29:12
Speaker 2: you know, we can't immediately fix the catchers, right like whatever.
29:16
Speaker 2: Whatever Miguel Amaya needs to work on with his transfer
29:18
Speaker 2: and things like that to get the ball down a
29:20
Speaker 2: second that can be worked on over time. This is
29:23
Speaker 2: a guy that had Tommy John surgery what three years
29:25
Speaker 2: ago now, something like that. Maybe he's not like I'm
29:30
Speaker 2: just trying to think through this, and and so they
29:34
Speaker 2: found a way to control a team that you know
29:37
Speaker 2: is a menace on the base bats because it was
29:39
Speaker 2: certainly I felt like cost them some runs in Milwaukee
29:42
Speaker 2: and has even prior to that. So, uh, that that's,
29:46
Speaker 2: you know, a small little thing where you say, like, oh,
29:49
Speaker 2: they addressed that issue. Now, how what's what's the magic
29:52
Speaker 2: he can pull to address the runners in scoring position?
29:55
Speaker 3: I don't know.
29:56
Speaker 2: Uh, he was he was pretty he was pretty clear
29:59
Speaker 2: that it will turn. There was no he didn't mince words.
30:03
Speaker 2: He said, I'm telling you we will hit withcore runners
30:07
Speaker 2: in scoring position at some point this season. And you
30:09
Speaker 2: know what, I agree with him because this happens almost
30:12
Speaker 2: every year to almost every team where they hit a lull.
30:16
Speaker 2: The question is it's not about runners in scoring position,
30:19
Speaker 2: it's about all situations.
30:21
Speaker 3: Are they a good enough offense?
30:25
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think with Counsel, I think we've both kind
30:28
Speaker 1: of heard this, and he's someone who's hyper aware of
30:31
Speaker 1: like you know, pitchers times to the plate in the
30:36
Speaker 1: minor leagues, like a supremely prepared manager, and there are.
30:43
Speaker 4: Obvious areas where the Cubs can improve. I think it's
30:47
Speaker 4: just been.
30:49
Speaker 1: Confusing or surprising as to how poorly the Cubs have
30:53
Speaker 1: performed on those little things, Like it's not a particularly
30:58
Speaker 1: like great base running team, the defensive breakdowns, and it's
31:01
Speaker 1: like when you build this team around certain principles without
31:07
Speaker 1: a ton of margin for error, and like you don't
31:10
Speaker 1: do the little things well, you don't like bank enough
31:12
Speaker 1: wins early.
31:14
Speaker 4: It's going to be a really stressful back half of
31:16
Speaker 4: the season.
31:17
Speaker 1: And I still think all of their goals are still
31:20
Speaker 1: in front of them. It's a lot harder path now
31:23
Speaker 1: to get to the playoffs, but it's not like totally
31:26
Speaker 1: impossible or unreasonable to think that it can happen, and frankly,
31:31
Speaker 1: like it should happen at this point in the rebound rebuild,
31:37
Speaker 1: with the resources that have been put into this team,
31:41
Speaker 1: the highers that have been made, the deals that have
31:45
Speaker 1: been struck, Like, there are a lot of things that
31:48
Speaker 1: have made sense on paper as they've gone through this
31:51
Speaker 1: kind of a to B two see rebuild. But it's
31:54
Speaker 1: just not there yet. And they've got, you know, I
31:58
Speaker 1: wrote the other day, basically two months to get their
32:01
Speaker 1: act together before the trade deadline, and then you know
32:05
Speaker 1: it'll be time for some reinforcements that you know, they
32:10
Speaker 1: got to prove that.
32:12
Speaker 4: They deserve that.
32:13
Speaker 1: I don't foresee this probably another episode, don't even start
32:16
Speaker 1: it now, but don't foresee a scenario which they're selling.
32:19
Speaker 1: Our colleague Jim Boden has them firmly on the list
32:22
Speaker 1: of buyers.
32:25
Speaker 4: That just came out. I would totally agree with that assessment,
32:29
Speaker 4: and I think that.
32:30
Speaker 1: Will be revealing to go ultimately payroll wise, who they
32:36
Speaker 1: give up, what they target.
32:39
Speaker 4: And I guess if we're leaving on positive thoughts, it.
32:41
Speaker 1: Would be like what Jim Boden mentioned of if they
32:46
Speaker 1: stay healthy, it comes out of the starting pitchers that
32:48
Speaker 1: you feel pretty good about in a short playoff series,
32:51
Speaker 1: have the pitching to keep them competitive on a nightly basis.
32:55
Speaker 4: It's just like everything else has to get better.
32:58
Speaker 2: Fast, right, And I think what you said there about
33:02
Speaker 2: them not selling is important to like reinforce with the
33:06
Speaker 2: fan base who thinks like that they should just sell. Like,
33:09
Speaker 2: first of all, they're half game out of a playoff
33:11
Speaker 2: spot right now. Second of all, you have to always
33:13
Speaker 2: weigh what pieces you have to sell and where you
33:16
Speaker 2: are in your contention cycle, where you think you are right.
33:19
Speaker 2: This is a season where they think they're entering their
33:22
Speaker 2: contention cycle. Do they see themselves as a ninety five
33:24
Speaker 2: hundred win team. No, but they see themselves as a
33:27
Speaker 2: playoff team. So they're not going to like just like
33:31
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying they're going to win the World Series,
33:33
Speaker 2: but just like the twenty twenty one Braves who weren't
33:35
Speaker 2: in the thick of things, and Thopolis looked at and said,
33:37
Speaker 2: this is where my team is. We're in our cycle.
33:39
Speaker 2: So I'm going to make some small moves to see
33:41
Speaker 2: if I can help the team. That worked out perfectly, right,
33:45
Speaker 2: But this is a situation where maybe Jed's like, I'm
33:48
Speaker 2: going to make some tweaks to the roster to see
33:50
Speaker 2: what I can do to improve the team, or maybe
33:52
Speaker 2: they get hot and he can, you know, go be
33:54
Speaker 2: a little bit more aggressive.
33:55
Speaker 3: We'll see.
33:57
Speaker 2: Like I had this team at ninety to nine two
34:00
Speaker 2: wins because of the trade deadline, because I thought they'd
34:03
Speaker 2: be like five six games over five hundred or whatever
34:06
Speaker 2: around the trade deadline and they'd make a big enough
34:09
Speaker 2: move to be like, oh, now they're really good. Now
34:11
Speaker 2: they're gonna have a hot final two months and get
34:13
Speaker 2: to ninety two wins. That's kind of how I saw it,
34:16
Speaker 2: so I need so for my prediction to come true,
34:18
Speaker 2: I needed them to be a decent team, not a
34:21
Speaker 2: great team before the trade deadlines and get you know,
34:23
Speaker 2: hot in this final few months, which is a characteristic
34:27
Speaker 2: of a Council team in general. Right, and if he
34:30
Speaker 2: has the right trade deadline, maybe that happens. But I
34:32
Speaker 2: think you said it early on, like ninety wins is
34:35
Speaker 2: going to be pretty damn hard with where they are
34:39
Speaker 2: right now. But two games against the White Sox, I
34:42
Speaker 2: believe we're We're planning to have a guest.
34:44
Speaker 3: Patrick for that.
34:47
Speaker 2: And we'll preview a team that's just you want to
34:53
Speaker 2: you think you're you're struggling to watch the Cubs. The
34:56
Speaker 2: White Socks are just dreadful in every aspect of the game.
35:00
Speaker 2: They're a little bit entertaining with Tommy fam though. I'm
35:02
Speaker 2: not sure how much of that you saw online yesterday, Patrick, but.
35:05
Speaker 4: That was great.
35:07
Speaker 1: That is kind of what my hope for this Cup
35:10
Speaker 1: Socks series is that we get some of that drama,
35:15
Speaker 1: some of the old Tub Socks mojo that it's really
35:20
Speaker 1: harder to summon up these days.
35:22
Speaker 4: I think the game has changed, the personalities.
35:24
Speaker 1: Have changed a little bit, but I don't know putting
35:30
Speaker 1: those two teams together, particularly in like.
35:33
Speaker 4: Like the shorter like two game window like stuff.
35:37
Speaker 1: Stuff can happen, and I'm curious to see like what
35:41
Speaker 1: it is. I won't make any predictions yet. We'll get
35:45
Speaker 1: into that tomorrow. But it's usually a good time cup
35:50
Speaker 1: socks night games at Wrigley.
35:53
Speaker 4: Something will happen. I think you can book that.
35:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris Flexen on Tuesday. Eric Fetti, so one of
36:02
Speaker 2: their better pictures on West. They don't miss the the
36:05
Speaker 2: two good pictures that the two really good pictures that
36:07
Speaker 2: the White Sex have and Fetti and Crochet. They miss Crochet,
36:11
Speaker 2: but they get Fetti. We'll see if they kid the
36:13
Speaker 2: offense can find a way to get going against the
36:16
Speaker 2: subpar opponent. Thank you guys for listening. This is Northside Territory.
36:21
Speaker 2: Make sure to rate, review, subscribe all that good stuff.
36:23
Speaker 2: Make sure to read Nan and Patrick's work at the Athletic.
36:27
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Take care all.
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