Latest / Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality / 048: Visibility Starts with Safety: Why Choosing Yourself Changes Everything

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048: Visibility Starts with Safety: Why Choosing Yourself Changes Everything · Career Identity + Growth Conversations for Professional Women: Exposing the Hidden Reality

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Sandra, I've been thinking about something since our conversation with
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Ankara Rose in episode forty seven. We spent nearly an
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: hour talking about authenticity, about being ourselves, about safety, and
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: I keep wondering what happens after you've done all that work,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: because eventually you have to let somebody or maybe lots
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  Speaker 1: of somebodies see you. And I wonder if that's the
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  Speaker 1: part that scares women the most.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I think that's exactly what's happening. And
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  Speaker 2: I've really been sitting with this for the last eight
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  Speaker 2: weeks in particular, and doing a lot of writing about it,
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  Speaker 2: because when we say visibility, most people automatically think about
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  Speaker 2: networking or LinkedIn or even public speaking. But I'm not
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  Speaker 2: sure that that's where the conversation starts. I think it
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  Speaker 2: starts earlier than that. I think it starts with one question.
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  Speaker 2: And the question was one that we talked quite a
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  Speaker 2: bit about with Ankara as well, and that is safe
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  Speaker 2: to be seen? And where am I safe to be seen?
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: How am I safe to be seen? If this sounds
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  Speaker 2: like a question you ask yourself, then we're going to
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: invite you to subscribe and follow because we have weekly
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: conversations about being ourselves in all parts of our lives,
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: including the workplace, as leaders in our families, and supporting
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: our community, and we'd love to have you join us.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you for extending that invitation to our listeners. Sandra,
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  Speaker 1: this conversation for me really started when you share that
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  Speaker 1: story about you and your daughter being silly together, and
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  Speaker 1: that's something that you've had ever since you had her,
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  Speaker 1: this level of comfort together and knowing that you're truly
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  Speaker 1: safe when you're together. And I fear that a lot
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  Speaker 1: of other women don't have that safety and how it
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  Speaker 1: holds them back, especially at work. Right That's the thing
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  Speaker 1: we dive into the most here in this space.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and I was thinking it's not just about work,
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  Speaker 2: you know. One of the things that I shared was
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  Speaker 2: that there aren't a lot of places where I feel
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  Speaker 2: I can be completely safe, and so we think about
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  Speaker 2: are we safe on social media? And we talked about
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  Speaker 2: that in our LinkedIn conversations. Am I safe with my
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  Speaker 2: girlfriends seems like a rhetorical question sometimes, but there are
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  Speaker 2: things that I can say with some friends. There's no
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  Speaker 2: way I could say that with other friends, true, And
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  Speaker 2: am I safe with family? Oftentimes? We are not am
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  Speaker 2: I safe in my marriage? And I think that is
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  Speaker 2: a question. You know, we had some earlier episodes last
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  Speaker 2: year where we talked to some guests. For a lot
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  Speaker 2: of high functioning women, marriage is not a safe place either. Safety,
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  Speaker 2: I think, is a big thing. And then how do
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  Speaker 2: we define it?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say safety is an individual thing, an
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  Speaker 1: individual place. Maybe some women feel more safe in the
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  Speaker 1: world place than maybe they do at home or vice versa.
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  Speaker 1: Individual for everybody where they feel the safest and visibility,
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  Speaker 1: What exactly does that mean? What does that mean to
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  Speaker 1: you today?
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  Speaker 2: It is big in the context that I wrote about
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  Speaker 2: it with the goofy photo of my daughter. I meant
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  Speaker 2: it from the perspective of being able to show up
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  Speaker 2: as I am without excuses.
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  Speaker 1: I like that definition.
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  Speaker 3: There's no performance.
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  Speaker 2: I don't have to be tending to be somebody that
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  Speaker 2: I'm not. I don't have to I think we all
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  Speaker 2: are careful about our words. I believe that even when
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  Speaker 2: we are expressing ourselves, we have a responsibility for that expression.
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  Speaker 2: We don't want to say things that are going to
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  Speaker 2: hurt others unnecessarily, So I think there's a sense of responsibility.
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  Speaker 2: I am safe to share the parts of me that
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  Speaker 2: are authentic and I won't be misjudged as a result
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  Speaker 2: of that. Can I show you the goofy side of me?
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  Speaker 2: Can I show you the sad side of me? Can
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  Speaker 2: I trust you when I.
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  Speaker 3: Start to cry?
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  Speaker 2: Can I trust you to hold those things about me
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  Speaker 2: that are sacred between us? Can I trust that if
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  Speaker 2: there is a misunderstanding, that you will work with me
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  Speaker 2: to resolve that. To those I think are all part
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  Speaker 2: of safety. Yeah, The times that I feel unsafe is
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  Speaker 2: when I share something deeply personal, or I share part
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  Speaker 2: of myself and then I find out that those things
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  Speaker 2: got shared with others that intimacy then it has been broken,
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  Speaker 2: or you have misinterpreted what I said and rather than
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  Speaker 2: give me an opportunity to fix those things, you are
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  Speaker 2: working from that assumption. Or I share a deeply personal,
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  Speaker 2: hurtful experience with you and it becomes about you rather
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  Speaker 2: than you trying to understand what's happening for me. Those
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  Speaker 2: I think are all aspects of safety.
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  Speaker 3: What do you think?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah? I like that. I also think having a place
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  Speaker 1: that you feel safe means that you're appreciated for your
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  Speaker 1: unique gifts and talents, that people seek you out for
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  Speaker 1: those unique and special things about you. And I would
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  Speaker 1: also say safety is a place where you can let
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  Speaker 1: your guard down. Yes, so you said not performing, and
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  Speaker 1: I agree that's very important, But also you can just
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  Speaker 1: be nothing. Right, do you feel like vegging out on
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  Speaker 1: the couch all day today because you're tired, or you've
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  Speaker 1: had enough, or you just don't want to do anything else?
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  Speaker 1: Is there a place where you can do that and
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  Speaker 1: you're not expected to always be achieving whatever that means
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  Speaker 1: to you or the other people that you live or
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  Speaker 1: work with. And then I also feel there's this little
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  Speaker 1: bit of safety that means you can be who you
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  Speaker 1: are not normally allowed to be at the other non
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  Speaker 1: safe places. So let's say work, for example, I don't
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  Speaker 1: know that I'd get to be my full, crazy, obnoxious,
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  Speaker 1: loud self all the time at work, Right, there's a
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  Speaker 1: place for that at work. There's definitely pieces of myself
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  Speaker 1: I can express at work, But I'm definitely more safe,
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  Speaker 1: in my opinion, at home being that crazy, obnoxious lowed me.
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  Speaker 1: So I would say there has to be one place
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  Speaker 1: where you totally feel completely safe, or I hope, I
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  Speaker 1: hope that you have that place where you feel totally
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  Speaker 1: completely safe. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because for some people home is
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  Speaker 2: not a safe place. Work.
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  Speaker 3: I agree it's a safer place, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: For other people, work not the safe place home is,
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  Speaker 2: And for some people neither one feels one hundred percent safe.
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  Speaker 2: There's a sense that I have to perform at both
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  Speaker 2: and so you know, for those people, where can you
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  Speaker 2: find a safe place? How can you find it? I
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  Speaker 2: think safety begins with self first. We talked about this
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  Speaker 2: in other episodes, especially around stories that you know, the
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  Speaker 2: stories that we tell ourselves about ourselves, they become loops
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  Speaker 2: and programs, and if those stories aren't nice, then we
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  Speaker 2: don't even have a safe place within ourselves, which is
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  Speaker 2: why I always say grace and compassion begins with the
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  Speaker 2: self first. You can't give what you don't have. Are
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  Speaker 2: you safe for yourself? Is often a question that I
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  Speaker 2: work with myself about, but I also help my clients
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  Speaker 2: with what does it mean to you to be safe
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  Speaker 2: within yourself? Where are those voices coming from? What is
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  Speaker 2: holding you back from saying the things that you want
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  Speaker 2: to say? But at work, how do we find the
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  Speaker 2: way to talk about accomplishments or even the learning, because
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  Speaker 2: oftentimes we're so self critical about the things that didn't
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  Speaker 2: work out the way we thought they were going to
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  Speaker 2: work out. We make mistakes, and there's this expectation that we're.
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  Speaker 3: Always perfect, especially at work.
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  Speaker 2: So when somebody has a false story about you, or
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  Speaker 2: somebody has heard about the project that didn't go one
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  Speaker 2: hundred percent, or maybe you know they've heard a story
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  Speaker 2: about you from somebody else and it was not really
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  Speaker 2: completely the truth. That was somebody else's perspective, you may
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  Speaker 2: not feel safe coming up and talking about your win,
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  Speaker 2: your visibility. How do you have that conversation and to
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  Speaker 2: correct that story.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, as a coach, I would ask some questions of
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  Speaker 1: the person and that's struggling with that in their career
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  Speaker 1: or in their personal life, and I would ask them
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  Speaker 1: things like, what's the story that you're telling yourself or
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  Speaker 1: the story you've heard from someone else that you're buying into,
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  Speaker 1: and then what's your truth? What's your real story? And
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  Speaker 1: then how can you communicate that story. Maybe if you
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  Speaker 1: said something like that to me, like oh, an Ed,
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  Speaker 1: I heard that project didn't go well, I would say,
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  Speaker 1: oh my gosh, Sandra, it really was a challenge, and
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  Speaker 1: let me tell you what happened. Kind of like an
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  Speaker 1: interview story, and I use the STAR format, so situation, task,
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  Speaker 1: action results slash learning. The star part would be, let
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  Speaker 1: me tell you what happened. This was the situation, this
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  Speaker 1: is what I was tasked with, this is the goal,
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  Speaker 1: this is what I actually had to do, this is
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  Speaker 1: what my team had to do. And then this was
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  Speaker 1: the result. And then if it didn't go well, you
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  Speaker 1: can say, and then this is what I learned from it.
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  Speaker 1: So now there's this whole process that we have in
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  Speaker 1: place to clean things up or to make sure that
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  Speaker 1: it goes well, or we do a check in twenty
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  Speaker 1: four or forty eight hours afterwards. Because nothing is perfect,
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  Speaker 1: we need to fail. We have no choice but to fail.
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  Speaker 1: Not everything works the first time every time. So accepting
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  Speaker 1: that failure, learning from it, and then learning a way
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  Speaker 1: to speak about it that acknowledges it, that honors that
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  Speaker 1: it was a failure. Thank goodness, we learned that that
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  Speaker 1: didn't work before this other big project, right, and then sayang,
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  Speaker 1: and I'm okay with that because now it's part of
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  Speaker 1: the things that I know to be true and I
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  Speaker 1: can move forward. That's what I would do. Would that work?
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  Speaker 1: You think for most people?
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  Speaker 3: I think that's beautiful.
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  Speaker 2: Me personally, I'm having two simultaneous reactions.
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  Speaker 1: Oh oh.
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  Speaker 2: The first reaction is can I think that fast?
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  Speaker 3: Correct?
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  Speaker 1: Sure?
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  Speaker 2: The older I get, the slower my brain works. It's like,
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  Speaker 2: oh crap, I think we need to be prepared. So
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  Speaker 2: who is a good person that you can rehearse these
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  Speaker 2: things with? Is there a trusted colleague? Do you have
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  Speaker 2: a coach? When you get feedback? What do you do
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  Speaker 2: with that feedback to kind of work through it? Because
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  Speaker 2: clearly that's a story that people are carrying now that
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  Speaker 2: could impact how you're viewed. That is one thing that
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  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about in response to this question, what do
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  Speaker 2: I think that would work? Yes, I think that would
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  Speaker 2: work great. So are you prepared for those conversations? Because
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  Speaker 2: for me, if I'm not prepared, that's when I start
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  Speaker 2: to ramble or I start to excuse, which it comes
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  Speaker 2: to the second question that I'm having simultaneously, and that
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  Speaker 2: is what is the fear underneath that story? Part of
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  Speaker 2: the I get defensive is what am I making that
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  Speaker 2: story mean about who I am as a leader, as
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  Speaker 2: a coach, as a human. How does that talk to
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  Speaker 2: maybe other stories I have about myself? What is the
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  Speaker 2: story I have about the person in front of me,
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  Speaker 2: and why they're questioning me about this. All of that
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  Speaker 2: is nervous system work that's happening at the same time
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  Speaker 2: that you're trying to come up with your star format response.
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  Speaker 2: And depending on which is bigger, the nervous system response
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  Speaker 2: or the oh my gosh, do I have my story correct,
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  Speaker 2: you might actually be heading into a trauma response. You know,
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  Speaker 2: often when I talk about trauma and being trauma informed,
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  Speaker 2: there's a confusion about that. People think we're talking about
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  Speaker 2: really big things. We might be. We might be talking
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  Speaker 2: about really big things, but we might also be talking
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  Speaker 2: about small things that have.
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  Speaker 3: Added up over the years.
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  Speaker 1: Correct.
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  Speaker 2: And so what's getting triggered is this older understanding of
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  Speaker 2: self that maybe didn't have a lot of trauma around it,
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  Speaker 2: but you've interpreted as I need to cover this up,
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  Speaker 2: or this isn't me, or this is how people misunderstand me,
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  Speaker 2: or this is shadow work that I need to work through.
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  Speaker 2: What I would say is if you notice that your
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  Speaker 2: nervous system is having a response, that is information that's
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  Speaker 2: worth working through, because that's the story that's getting in
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  Speaker 2: the way of actually admitting, yeah, you know what we
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: all make mistakes. This was a great learning opportunity for me,
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  Speaker 2: and there's so much value, especially in a corporate environment.
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  Speaker 2: I think that can come from simply owning the learning process.
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  Speaker 1: And back to your point of working through the story
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  Speaker 1: with someone, I think one you have to notice when
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  Speaker 1: the story is coming up. So are you being aware
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  Speaker 1: enough to notice. One of the little things that one
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: of my coaches taught me to do is just to
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: have a little little notepad. You can even put a
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: post it on your desktop every single day, and then
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: when you have one of those those imposter thoughts or
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: your inner critic is like on HI alert that day, right,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: just to do a little hash right, just a little
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  Speaker 1: line and track it for yourself. And then when you
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  Speaker 1: start to notice it, it starts to happen less because
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  Speaker 1: you're in your body right and you're noticing and you're
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  Speaker 1: aware of these things. So that's a good way to
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  Speaker 1: notice it when it comes up. And then the other
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  Speaker 1: thing is like you're noticing when the intrusive inner critic
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  Speaker 1: is on I alert, you can also notice good things.
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  Speaker 1: So at the end of every day, I recommend and
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  Speaker 1: I invite you because it's such a good practice to
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: talk about to yourself, either write it down, record it,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: do a voice memo on your drive home, whatever it is,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: and talk about one thing good that happened that day,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: what did you achieve, how did you do it? And
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: then at the end of the week, you should have
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: five really good examples for your nervous system, like you're
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: talking about Sandra, and you should be able to say, Okay,
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  Speaker 1: these are five great things that happened to me this week,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: and then at the end of the week you should
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  Speaker 1: be able to say, which one do I want to
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: develop a story about that I can talk to my
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: boss about or I can share in a meeting next
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: week when they ask for a success. And then you
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: get this rolling practice going where you're talking about yourself
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: your accomplishments more. Maybe you're bringing it up in big meetings,
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: which will increase your visibility, and you're also increasing the
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  Speaker 1: visibility for your colleagues or the team of direct reports
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: that you have. And that's how you can notice the
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: bad things and work through them. But it's also how
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: you can notice and pay attention to the good things
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: so that you can talk about them and not be
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: waiting for someone to notice how amazing you or your
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: team is because nobody's noticing, nobody's coming to save you.
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  Speaker 1: So how can you.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Be I mean, there's not a white night on a
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: recourse that's going to give me a kiss, and I'm
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: going to wake up from this nightmare that I'm in
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: and life will be great and we're going to live
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: happily ever after.
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  Speaker 3: Like all the fairy tales say.
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  Speaker 1: No, And actually you know that's not what the fairy
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: tales say. That's just the Disney interpretation of the Fairyes.
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  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I can't tell you. Okay, well, I
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: feel like we can't go here, correct, I agree?
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  Speaker 3: I used to.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: I used to if I caught my kids watching these movies,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: especially snow White or Cinderella or which actually the remake
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of Cinderella was pretty awesome. But if I watch them
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  Speaker 2: watch these shows, I'd yell, get a credit rating, get
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: a job, Oh my god, stop being a victim. And
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: I was yelling at that at the princesses, don't wait
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: for some man to come and save you.
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: Well, and isn't that exactly what we're saying. Yes, you
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: are the one that has to come and save you. Right,
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be your boss, your colleague, your
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: best friend at work, it's not even going to be
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: your best personal friend. Those people are there to support you.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: They're there to help you along in whatever story and
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: life you're build for yourself, but they cannot do it
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: for you. No one can do it for you. So
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: how can you work on yourself internally enough that you
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: can build enough confidence, build a good story about yourself
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: so that you have something to believe in and you
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: know that you are rock solid and that you can
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: handle things that come up. You can be resilient in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: the moment. I really think that's what visibility is about,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: being able to stand there knowing that you've done the
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: work and that you can handle anything that comes up
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: by putting yourself out their front and center and saying,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: pay attention to me, I'm ready for it.
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: I have goosebumps. I do. I do in part because
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: this is the journey I've been on as an entrepreneur,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: and that I feel the last two months has really
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: brought new clarity for me on this journey. You know,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: we've been talking about when we picked this idea of
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: stories that people carry about us and that we carry
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: about ourselves. We were picking a topic that we were
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: both interested in, and we thought, oh, this, this has
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: a lot of crossover between what I do as a
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: leadership coach and what you do as a career coach.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: I had no idea of how much old business this
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: was going to bring up for me. I had no
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: idea what these last two months as we've walked through
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: this conversation, all the processing that would come up, grief
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: around lost opportunities, grief around you know, things that I
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: did in positions that I had. Grief around opportunities lost
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: because I didn't see the potential in what was happening
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: at the time, and you know, frustration with self around
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: why didn't I, you know, stand up for this, and
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: why didn't I stand up for that? And areas where
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: I looked at it and I thought, oh, look at
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: me displaying leadership. There it cost me something. In one case,
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: it cost me a job. And can I be proud
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: of the fact that I stood up for who I
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: was and what my values were?
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Of course, right?
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Did I suffer as a result of that? Oh?
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: Of course.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: Would I go back and change any of that? No,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: they were great learning opportunities. Did they hurt me?
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: Of course they.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Did so I'm just so appreciative of the opportunity we've
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: had to share this journey these last two months, what
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: has come up for clearing and processing and reintegration. Because
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: now I can stand here at the end of having
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: done all of that work and say, I understand sovereignty
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: in a new way. I understand that I have to
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: choose myself first. I have to be comfortable and safe
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: in myself, my beliefs, my values, what I stand for,
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: who I am first, and then I can operate from
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: that place. One of the challenges, I think is that's
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: a discovery process, and we don't know those things until
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: we go through something. Right, and so we have this
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: and I'm going to go back to the fairy tales.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: We have this.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: Sense that once we get through this turmoil, life is
• 20:36
  Speaker 2: happily ever after, And the reality is no, it's constantly
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: this process of discovery and self discovery and challenge and
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: having conflict and trying to process what we've been through,
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: what we're going through. There is no happily ever after.
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: There's content in the moment, there's fulfillment ever after.
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, there's growth.
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: There's growth, yes, yes, But I don't think we're ever
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: going to get to a point where we can rest
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: on our laurels and say, Wow, I don't have anything
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: I need to worry about from this point forward. Now
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: it's a constant unfolding and I think for me, the
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: biggest AHA in all of this two months of explorations
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: has been I choose me. Nobody else needs to agree
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: with me, but I choose me. I need to be
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: comfortable in who I am, what I'm doing, what I believe.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: I'm open to changing my opinions, my mind's, my views,
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: but that doesn't change my need to talk from this
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: perspective that I'm currently holding.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And is there undue pressure that women put on themselves.
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: We talk about choosing ourselves. We talk about pouring from
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: an empty cup or pouring from a full cup, and
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: we talk about putting on our gas mask first or
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: our air mask first. But can I challenge what I
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: think the natural assumption is after that, which is we
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: do that to be fully present for others? And what
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: if we do that to be fully present for ourselves?
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: Can that be enough? And then we can decide what
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: that means for the others that are around us, that
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: we work with, that we live with, that we help.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: That's really something that's been coming up for me these
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: past couple months. Can it be enough that I choose
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: me and then everything else that comes after that is
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: fine and also a choice, But others doesn't have to
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: be the reason I choose myself first. It can just
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: simply be me myself.
• 22:44
  Speaker 2: Hi and Car talked about imagine a world or even
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: an organization or a family where everybody's interest was wrapped
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: around not only just being authentic in their self expression
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: with responsibility, but also honoring the people around them. And
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: I want to take that one step further and say,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: as a woman, if you were to model that, embodying
• 23:11
  Speaker 2: what you described, I choose me, and I am aware
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: of how that impacts you. I still choose me first.
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: I might choose to do something on your behalf because
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: it's important and you're important, but I'm still choosing me first.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Can we can we for a moment stop and think
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: about the impact that would have on all of the
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: women around us, all the girls who look to us,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: and say, wow, that's different. That's different than giving yourself
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: away to everybody else to make everybody else comfortable drinking,
• 23:52
  Speaker 2: to make everybody drinking, to make others comfortable.
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, be quiet to make everybody else comfortable.
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not standing up for ourselves, yeah, not standing up
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: for other women, standing up for themselves.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Correct. And those are the concessions that it is so
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: easy to make because of how young girls are socialized.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: And I see it changing, Sandro. The way that you
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: raise your daughter is so inspiring, and I see that change,
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: and I hope that mothers with daughters and sons are
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: teaching their kids like you, like I've witnessed you teach
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: your children. But the way you and I were socialized
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: was different. Girls are to be seen and not heard.
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: They're there to help and help everybody at the expense
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: of everything else that you have to do. And that
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: exhausting loop is hard to get out of. And by
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: the time you realize you've got to get out of it,
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: you're already so caught up in it that it takes
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: a while to untangle. And I think that's the point
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: you and I are making before we hit the record button.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Is something happens. We have a life event, medical events,
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: an accident, a work thing, and it finally comes to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: the service and then we start to handle it. But
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I would dare say that you don't even know that
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it's a problem for you until you know that it's
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: a problem for you, until maybe there's somebody listening right
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: now that hasn't even thought of it and doesn't know
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it's a problem, and maybe there's somebody that is listening, like, oh, yeah,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I've been dealing with that for a long time, and
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: I can see it now.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: I'm also very conscious because we're talking about safety, at
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: least that's where we started this conversation about visibility is
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: a function of how safe we feel.
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Correct.
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: I'm also very aware that we're talking from positions of privilege.
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: So privileged now. I am Hispanic, I grew up in
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: different cultures. I'm an immigrant twice, but I read white
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: when people when I walk into a room, people don't
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: automatically say Latina, they don't automatically say immigrant, they don't
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: automatically say grew up in a culture that was pactful.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: They read white, they read privilege.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: And so one of the things that I'm very conscious
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: about is we talk about safety and being able to
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: express our truth, is that many of us do not
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: have that privilege at all. Who are we as women?
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: How are we supporting other women to stand up and
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: express their truths, their authentic selves, even when they don't
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: have privilege. How can we get curious about what's happening
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: for them? How can we be a voice for others.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I can't stand up and say you know X and Y,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: because people are going to look at me and say, but.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: You don't live that reality.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Whether I have or not, or whether I've lived aspects
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: of those realities doesn't matter. People will look at me
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: and make those judgments. So rather than make those statements
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: on behalf of people, how can we then give people
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: platforms or opportunities to voice those authentic truths. How can
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: we expose so One of the things that I do
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: with my own kids is I ask them to go
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: have conversations with people. When they make comments to me
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: about can you believe so and so did this? I
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: challenge them and I say, you know, well, do you
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: think they could realistically represent that point of view or
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: do you think that people might look at them and say,
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: what do you know about that? I think there's a
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: lot of judgment that we experience every day, all day,
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: and one of the first places we can start is
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: just even questioning ourselves. Is what I'm thinking about is
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: what I'm believing about are my truths?
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Could those be privilege?
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: They could be privileged. I think that asking that question
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: at all shows a level of self awareness that I'm
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: not sure everybody has gotten to the point of questioning
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: being aware of so I think those are beautiful questions.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: As leaders, Sandra, I think we could ask questions of
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: people that we work with about that, like that same
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: question you would ask your children, right, is so and
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: so in a position to be able to challenge those
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: to be challenge that assumption. I think that one visibility aspect,
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: and I really do think it's completely related to safety
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: now looking back on it, is when you're in a
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: meeting and you see somebody's ideas being stolen or trampled on,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: You hear somebody being interrupted a bunch of times, their
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: point being danced all over? Is there something that you
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: can do to say, Let's go back to what Sandra
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: was saying. Let's go back to what Annette was saying.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: It's a small act. And if you are comfortable, if
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: you have enough privilege in that room to be able
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: to do that, can you share your privilege to help
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: somebody else be seen feel safer? Because in that moment,
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: I would say for that person, because I've been that
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: person where my idea is dance all over, even with
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: my privilege, when I had somebody that stood up for
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: that or said hey, can we go back to that,
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: or hey can we stop a minute? Because you interrupted
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: so and so I felt seen, I felt safer, I
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: felt that I could be in that room the next time.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: It gave me confidence to say something. Even though it
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: was a small act by somebody else, it was impactful
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: for me. And I think about if we could do
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: that for one person at one point during the day,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: what a better workplace or home life we could.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: Each Oh my gosh, it'd be huge. And I'm thinking
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: back to the conversation that we had at the beginning
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: around when you're sitting in somebody's office and they bring
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: up an experience that they've heard about, YEA, yeah, if
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: you're the person who's relaying the story, have you given
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: thought to how safety and privilege might be playing into
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: this situation? And if you are the person who's feeling
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: We talked about the fact that you're the ones sitting
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: there talking about your potential failure or tental situation that
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: didn't go the way you want it to be framed.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: There's two conversations going on. There's the how do I
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: talk about this? And there's the nervous system conversation that
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: what do I notice is happening inside of me? And
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: how is this related to things that I may have experienced?
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: One of the questions you can ask yourself is how
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: does privilege fit into this story? Around fear, around my
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: nervous system, reaction right microaggressions, and being in communities that
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: are marginalized. These are aces adverse childhood experiences that we
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: carry that are now absolutely understood to have been trauma events.
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: Even if something didn't directly happen to us, being part
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: of those communities did impact our self awareness, our self safety,
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: our self advocacy. Agree, and you know it's one might
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: say this conversation, how is this related to career?
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: Do you really think people would say, how is this
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: related to career?
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: I hope not? Bye Over, I hope not, because one
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: of the points that I want to say is you
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: are not an isolated experience.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: You don't show up at.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: Work without having brought everything.
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: With you, your life, your.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: Experiences, your experiences of being valued, your experiences of being devalued,
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: your experiences as being a woman, your experiences of growing
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: up in marginalized communities, your experiences of trauma. They're sitting
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: in the room with you.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: They come to work with you every day.
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: They come to work with you every single day. We
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: cannot separate those things.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: But I think we can use those experiences to fuel
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: how we show up, how we show up for others.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: Are we the person in the meeting that says, can
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: we go back to what Sandra said? Can we say
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry you interrupted and time so far in this meeting?
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: Can she make her points? Can you notice when a
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: meeting's being extremely invaluable and it could have been an email,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: And do you have enough power, enough influence to say, like, listen,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: this isn't as productive as it could be. Let's go
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: ahead and call it quits here and reconvene when we're
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: ready to talk about it. And then you.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: Notice, as the leader, can you notice when somebody has
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: just shrunk?
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And can you create the safety that will hopefully let
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: them unshrink a little bit?
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: As the one who called the meeting, as the leader
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: in the room, as the most senior person in the room,
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: as the one with the most power in the room,
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: which is not necessarily the most.
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: Senior person in the room.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: I agree with that whole heart.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: Can you look around and even question where are the
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: power structures in the room? Who has privilege in this room?
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: Can you look around and look at the balance of
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: the room, not just the people, but what they represent,
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: what they're coming in with, what might be some of
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: the stories that they're caring about other teams, about themselves,
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: about the organization. Does anybody ever do that? Or do
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: we just start with the agenda?
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Well, you're assuming there's an agenda. That sounds like meaning
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: to start with.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I have never been in a meeting that did not
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: have an agenda.
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: I think there's always an agenda, But is everybody included
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: in on what that agenda is?
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 33:34
  Speaker 3: I like that? Yeah, yeah, I like that.
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: There's the agenda on the piece of paper. Then there's
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: the agenda underneath the surface. That should have to be
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: another topic that we talk about.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: That does sound like a good one. Okay, mental note given,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: But I.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Think it goes back to safety.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: If we know that there is a hidden agenda here,
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: are we going to ever feel safe? No, of course,
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: are we going to feel visible are.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: We going to want to be visible?
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: And if we know that the decisions are made in
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: the meeting after the meeting, what's the point of the
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: first meeting. So I'm going to bring something up and
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: we don't have to talk about it. But I really
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: think all of these underlying issues, feeling visible, being noticed
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: at work, being recognized for our accomplishments, safety, they are
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: all part of a workplace culture and that that's the
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: place where you have to decide can I thrive here
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: or am I in the wrong place? And I know
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: we ask that question of our listeners so often are
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: you in the right place? But if you're not in
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: the right place, then all of this self reflection, all
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: of this self confidence work, all of the things you're
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: doing to heal and grow won't matter because there's nothing
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: there to support you in your transformation, in your journey.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: You have to look around you because I know you're
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: working on you. I know you're working on your inner stuff.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: But you have to stick your head up. You can't
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: be an ostrich. You have to stick your head up
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: out of the sand and say I'm in the right place.
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: And that is choosing self, That really is choosing self.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, We don't wait to be chosen. We don't wait
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: for our manager to recognize, oh, you need to be promoted.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: We don't wait for senior management to say, I think
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: there might be a safety problem here. We don't wait
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: for somebody to notice, oh, we don't have the same
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: privilege as everybody else.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: We choose self.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: I might be in the wrong place. Maybe this story
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: that people are handing me has nothing to do with
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: me and has everything to do with I'm not what
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: this organization needs. And I choose to honor my truth
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: and go find an organization, Go find a culture, Go
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: find work that values who I am and what I
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: stand for.
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: I think that's a beautiful place to leave this conversation, Sandra.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: Yes, I mean I think what we really wanted to
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: make sure that people carried it away with them was
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: what does it mean to be visible?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah?
• 36:04
  Speaker 2: How can visibility be impacted? What might be going on
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: under the surface of visibility? And that visibility starts with safety.
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: And how can you start to build that awareness in
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: yourself of are you safe? Are you in the right place?
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: Are you putting yourself first?
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: I just keep going back to our conversation with Ankara,
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: where you were not giving feedback about why you didn't
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: get the job that related to your competence.
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Correct, No, it was how I was conceived.
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, and that is exactly what we're talking about here.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: This has nothing to do with my abilities. It has
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: everything to do with who I am. If today's conversation
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: made people stop and think, what do we want them
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: to do? I mean it's not ended.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: Here, right, Let's not because these conversations don't begin and
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: end with these podcast episodes. They're good indicators, but they're
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: not the end. So week Sandra and I continue to
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: exploring leadership and identity and growth and the hidden realities
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: we don't always have the time to unpack fully during
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: the show, So if you'd like to keep the conversation
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: going or be included in our conversations, we'd love to
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: have you join our email community at Exposing the Hiddenreality
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: dot com. It's where we share behind the scenes stuff,
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: additional resources and questions. We're still exploring ourselves and if
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: this episode reminded you of somebody that used to work
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: with or used to hang out with, please share it
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: with them. Sometimes one conversation is all it takes to
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: help someone feel seen and explore their story a little differently.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, so beautiful, and be for next time,
• 37:44
  Speaker 2: ask yourself, where am I protecting myself from what I
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: really want is to be seen.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: Great reflection, Sandra, I'll see you next week.