Latest / Loons: embrace, understand and ignore the internet with Carmen Vicente and Danielle Gibson / Loons: is journalism back?? digital products, microdramas, women in blue collar jobs, and more!

Transcript

Loons: is journalism back?? digital products, microdramas, women in blue collar jobs, and more! · Loons: embrace, understand and ignore the internet with Carmen Vicente and Danielle Gibson

0:00
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate your attention to the production detail.
0:03
SPEAKER_01: Really, I only care do we look good?
0:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: But I I don't care at all about the lamps, but I'm glad you have some thoughts about them.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Hey everyone, I'm Danielle.
0:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm Carmen, and you're listening to Lones, a show where two old crones try to decide what parts of the internet to embrace, understand, or ignore.
0:22
SPEAKER_01: Carm, thank you for that intro.
0:24
SPEAKER_01: I need to start the podcast out today on a very vulnerable note.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: I'm feeling I'm feel- I'm putting myself out there.
0:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm wearing a tiny scarf.
0:32
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I do feel this is a big fashion risk for me.
0:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
0:36
SPEAKER_01: Even though maybe does it seem natural or does or were you arrived today?
0:40
SPEAKER_00: I thought, damn, she's fashionable.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we did you?
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Okay, good.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: You weren't like, oh, she's wearing a tiny scarf.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I never, I I wouldn't.
0:47
SPEAKER_00: Is also because my opinion of you is so high.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: I think just like it fits with the whole, like, I was like, yeah, she's got her shit together.
0:53
SPEAKER_01: I'm putting myself out there creatively in the fashion sense.
0:57
SPEAKER_01: It's Hermes.
1:01
SPEAKER_01: Shut up.
1:03
SPEAKER_01: It is, it was a gift, but yes, it is from a rich man.
1:07
SPEAKER_01: Hermes, yes.
1:09
SPEAKER_01: Nice.
1:10
SPEAKER_01: But but you know, I see, I see chic people all the time out there wearing their tiny scarves, and I think, why not me?
1:16
SPEAKER_01: Why can't I do it?
1:17
SPEAKER_01: I have a tiny scarf.
1:18
SPEAKER_01: I just have let it laid dormant in my closet.
1:20
SPEAKER_01: This fall I decided I'm becoming a girl who wears a tiny scarf out in public.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: So far, no one has made fun of me.
1:26
SPEAKER_01: So, but I do feel a little vulnerable every time I do it.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: I think you look great.
1:30
SPEAKER_00: I feel like only when I'm seeing myself on this screen do I realize I look like Christmas.
1:36
SPEAKER_01: You look she you look very sporty spice.
1:38
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: She was my favorite spice girl.
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Was she?
1:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:42
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think I aligned with her in the beginning and then I started to like posh.
1:46
SPEAKER_01: Um I posh.
1:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, because I don't think posh was one of the more popular ones.
1:52
SPEAKER_00: Really?
1:53
SPEAKER_00: I felt like everyone was into like baby or ginger.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
1:56
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: Because ginger was true girl power, and baby, everyone was like, I'm baby.
2:04
SPEAKER_01: The the baby prostitute started then.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: Uh yes.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: But we're, I'm so excited to be here and chat about things that are going on on the internet this week.
2:12
SPEAKER_01: I would love to start with something I'm embracing that I have been seeing on my feed that is exciting to me, which is um that the idea that journalism is potentially back in a big way.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: Okay, tell me about this.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Okay, so the reason I'm saying this is because I saw a clip of Lucas Shaw interviewing the president of Walt Disney, Dana Walden, at a big conference.
2:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
2:36
SPEAKER_01: Big conference, lots of people, lots of asses in seats for this conference.
2:39
SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry I don't know exactly what the conference was, but we'll look it up later.
2:43
SPEAKER_01: People were there.
2:44
SPEAKER_01: And he asked the president of Walt Disney, so what's up with laying people off every six months at your company?
2:50
SPEAKER_01: I thought Disney was blue chip doing well.
2:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, a million Avengers movies.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: What's going on there?
2:55
SPEAKER_01: Of course she hedges.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: She's not answering in, you know, she's a corporate president of a huge company.
3:01
SPEAKER_01: She's not gonna be like, yep, you're right.
3:03
SPEAKER_01: We love laying people off.
3:04
SPEAKER_01: But I just appreciated that someone on stage who, you know, is hired to be there, is asking a real question.
3:12
SPEAKER_01: It's not just like, you know what I love?
3:15
SPEAKER_01: Uh uh Moana too.
3:18
SPEAKER_01: Like, I just thought that was great.
3:19
SPEAKER_00: But I also thought, like, once you're at that level of like, once you're the president or CEO of Disney, like, don't you have your PR team vet every question beforehand?
3:27
SPEAKER_01: Like, well, and that's why, yeah, that's why I think it's even more impressive.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: Potentially they did, and he asked it anyway.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
3:34
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe not.
3:35
SPEAKER_01: Maybe she was like, no, let's have a real raw.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: I want to be transparent, real raw conversation.
3:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, maybe.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I doubt it.
3:41
SPEAKER_01: But I do, I loved that he asked it.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: I love that, you know what?
3:45
SPEAKER_01: She didn't say interview's over.
3:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: Lucas, I'm gonna have your head on a stick after this.
3:49
SPEAKER_01: I just I thought that was very exciting to see.
3:52
SPEAKER_01: I think the clip has gone viral.
3:54
SPEAKER_01: There are people out there agreeing with what I'm saying, um, posting their own, like, yes, journalism is back.
4:00
SPEAKER_01: We are loving this.
4:01
SPEAKER_01: We are loving so much of um the press is now content creators or influencers.
4:09
SPEAKER_01: Like they are replacing traditional journalism and press in many different ways.
4:13
SPEAKER_01: And they are not all, but not gonna be as incentivized to ask any hard questions.
4:21
SPEAKER_00: No, that's not asking hard questions.
4:23
SPEAKER_01: Do you remember when the there was like a huge fur furor about the influencer who went to the like I think it was like Timu factories?
4:34
SPEAKER_01: Oh, she and the shever factories.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And she was like, look how great it is.
4:40
SPEAKER_01: Everyone's he everyone here is happy.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, uh And it was like, well, they're paying you to go on this trip.
4:47
SPEAKER_00: Like, well, you're not a journalist if you're a content creator.
4:50
SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I feel that way about myself, where I'm like, I have I don't have journalistic integrity.
4:57
SPEAKER_01: I'm not supposed to, I'm not a journalist.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: But there, I like that there are that they are still out there, that they exist, and they're asking these questions.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: Another, another sort of video I saw along these lines, he's not a journalist, as far as I know, but Jeremy O'Harris is a playwright.
5:11
SPEAKER_01: I saw his play Slave Prey on Broadway.
5:13
SPEAKER_01: Um, enjoyed myself, Bragg.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: But he's in this interview with Vanity Fair.
5:19
SPEAKER_01: Vanity Fair is now doing these video podcasts.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: A lot of these big magazines are doing these video podcasts.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: I had the same reaction when I watched this clip where I'm Yeah, how'd they get how'd I get this question in?
5:30
SPEAKER_01: Well, he he is the guest on the podcast.
5:33
SPEAKER_01: He's turning the tables on the, I believe he's the global head of editorial for Vanity Fair, Mark Widucci.
5:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, he's asking him, he's saying, Hey, you're allowing these tech people, the most powerful, richest people on the planet, you're giving them access to things like the Met Gala, like the Vanity Fair Oscars party.
5:52
SPEAKER_01: You're giving them access, you're writing the profile pieces, and you're taking the gorgeous photos.
5:57
SPEAKER_01: And that's what they want.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: That's something that up until this point, money doesn't really buy unless you are also kind of hot or fashionable in some capacity.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: But now money is buying that access.
6:08
SPEAKER_01: And Jeremy O'Harris is sort of pushing back to this person who is in charge, who is in a position of power, being like, Well, how do we how do we reconcile that?
6:17
SPEAKER_01: And it was great to watch that.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: It was great.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: They released, yeah, the fact that they let this clip, they could have cut this out.
6:23
unknown: Yeah.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: Good for Vanity Fair for actually putting it out there and having the conversation.
6:28
SPEAKER_01: I so in that way, I am I am wondering, is journalism back, maybe?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I like it.
6:33
SPEAKER_01: Did journalism ever leave?
6:34
SPEAKER_00: Well, that's a better question.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
6:36
SPEAKER_00: Did journal journalism ever leave?
6:38
SPEAKER_00: But I will say that like on the Sam Altman front, they OpenAI just had their dev day, you know, where they like invite the press, yes, the journalists, to come in.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: And you know, like there were no hard questions.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: It was it was mostly I mean, I I won't say there were no hard questions.
6:55
SPEAKER_00: Like Deanna Burke, who works for Boys Club, she asked something about like the like safety of children and AI, and and then Sam Alvin said something about like I don't really think kids should be using these these programs.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: So I think that was like a better pointed question to him.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, it's like they're there are press conferences where both sides have their parts to play and nobody is like doing it.
7:17
SPEAKER_00: Most people aren't doing real journalism.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: No one's pushing it.
7:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
7:20
SPEAKER_01: No one's pressing the buttons.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: And I do think that like ever since whatever.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: I don't know when it started, but it's like clearly there the whole like the kind of the uproar about taste that has been happening on X this year is like can rich people buy cultural capital?
7:36
SPEAKER_00: You know, and I think that that's like what we're seeing play out.
7:38
SPEAKER_00: And when you see, I don't know, I guess the picture of Sam Altman on Vanity Fair with him like overlooking some part of California.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
7:45
SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, he looks stoic and all of these things.
7:48
SPEAKER_00: Like, is this the process we're watching unfold?
7:52
SPEAKER_01: People can just buy you can buy, you can buy a cover of Vogue, probably.
7:55
SPEAKER_01: Or maybe not cover, but a beautiful editorial inside shop by any Lee voice.
8:00
SPEAKER_01: You can.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: I think you can, because you're if if you have that capital, yeah, I'll give a couple million to the Met to the Met.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Give me a whole table at the gala.
8:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to rub shoulders.
8:09
SPEAKER_01: I mean, what isn't it?
8:10
SPEAKER_01: What's enough?
8:11
SPEAKER_01: Like, does it have to be at the Met Gala?
8:13
SPEAKER_01: Can't you go rub shoulders at your own private enclave that we all know you have somewhere?
8:16
SPEAKER_01: So I do appreciate that these people are bringing these things up to the faces of yes, people in power.
8:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, did it ever go away?
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure, but it's certainly been diluted.
8:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Because I think as you meant journalism is weaker than ever just in terms of the funding.
8:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, we hear stories about this all the time.
8:35
SPEAKER_01: Um, so naturally a lot of journalists are going independent, are starting their subsecs, are becoming content creators in their own way.
8:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
8:43
SPEAKER_01: But to see people still uphold a sort of journalistic rigor, even if they are independent or doing something other than working out of paper, is very exciting to me.
8:55
SPEAKER_01: Very exciting.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: I love it.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: And I and I think it also inspires me to be a little bit less less like uh kiss ass in my content.
9:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, because you have to wonder.
9:05
SPEAKER_01: You have to wonder, like we're all, you're at the mercy of distribution, yeah, right?
9:09
SPEAKER_01: You can make the best content in the world.
9:11
SPEAKER_01: But if no one's distributing it because it's owned by a very select group of very powerful people, I mean, you've just brought up Sam Altman, uh, Luca Guadaninos movie.
9:22
SPEAKER_01: Sorry, I'm so bad at pronunciation thing.
9:24
SPEAKER_01: And he is Italian.
9:25
SPEAKER_01: It's very anti-Italian of me to not get that right.
9:27
SPEAKER_01: I am married to an Italian, so I apologize.
9:30
SPEAKER_01: But uh, it is it is a movie called Artificial about Sam Altman.
9:35
SPEAKER_01: And there was, there were items in the press about, oh, it sucks.
9:38
SPEAKER_01: That's why it can't find distribution, because it sucks.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: It's so bad, no one wants it.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: It's getting released now.
9:44
SPEAKER_01: I forget, I'm sorry, I forget which studio actually picked it up for distribution, but it's getting released now.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: The reviews are through the roof.
9:49
SPEAKER_01: They're saying we love this.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: This is a great film.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: Who was trying to silence this movie?
9:54
SPEAKER_01: You know?
9:54
unknown: I wonder.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: So I'm dying to see it.
9:58
SPEAKER_01: I'm dying to see it.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: I it it I get a little scared sometimes about like who can silence who.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
10:05
SPEAKER_01: Like we will we like to think we're distributing this on Instagram and TikTok.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: We like to think that, oh, we're on these platforms that are so democratized.
10:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Uh, like this is our voice, this is our way to connect with the community and potentially make those make waves independently.
10:21
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
10:22
SPEAKER_01: But ultimately, who is behind all of these things?
10:25
SPEAKER_01: And will they allow us to do that?
10:27
SPEAKER_00: I think about that all the time when I post content where it's like, guys, wake up.
10:31
SPEAKER_00: Wake up, sheep all.
10:32
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, the tech bros are after us, and then like posting it on the tech bros platforms.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, how is this?
10:38
SPEAKER_01: What else is there?
10:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: It's it's very difficult to do it without some sort of platform with the audience already baked in.
10:45
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:46
SPEAKER_01: So it's interesting.
10:47
SPEAKER_01: But yes, it makes me feel very hopeful.
10:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm very hopeful.
10:51
SPEAKER_01: And bless like big shout outs to Jeremy O'Harris and Lucas Shaw.
10:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh Lucas Shaw appears on The Town, which is a podcast I listen to semi-frequently, just about the entertainment industry, and he's awesome on it.
11:02
SPEAKER_01: It's a great podcast.
11:03
SPEAKER_01: Highly recommend it.
11:04
SPEAKER_01: If you're once you're done listening to Lance.
11:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I have something that I can't wait to tell you about.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Um so we like, I feel like one of the earliest things that we talked about, I think we talked about in the first episode, was this video that we both saw independent of one another of a woman telling her husband how much money she made from an online course.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: 700,000 US dollars.
11:26
SPEAKER_00: And that's like not even like because there was another woman who made$7 million.
11:30
SPEAKER_01: Oh my god, why is it all seven?
11:31
SPEAKER_01: What's up with my part of a larger conspiracy?
11:34
SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
11:35
SPEAKER_00: So last night I saw another one.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
11:38
SPEAKER_00: A woman waits for her husband to get home and she tells them how much money she made, and they both cry.
11:42
SPEAKER_00: And like they both cried in the last one, too.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: Right.
11:45
SPEAKER_00: But then this morning I see another one.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: A woman who's setting up like kind of more of an elaborate, um, like there's like papers on the wall, and it's kind of representing how many dollars she made or something like that.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: She made into surprise her husband.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And I was like, we gotta talk about this because it's it's bringing up some complex feelings in me.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: At first I felt critical of it.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, No.
12:08
SPEAKER_00: Uh I think like one of my friends says, like, the way she approaches the end the internet is that she just is a misandrist.
12:15
SPEAKER_00: So she like just generally supports women.
12:17
SPEAKER_00: Yes and anything that's she's like, no.
12:19
SPEAKER_01: I I hear that.
12:20
SPEAKER_01: I hear that.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: My worry, I think why I feel conflicted about it is that it's it's becoming a thing.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: And it's becoming a thing where women are gonna get uh criticized for this.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: I think there's a- Oh, is it not already?
12:33
SPEAKER_01: Didn't we do that in the first episode?
12:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's like it's gonna be this like, oh look, she's like telling her husband again.
12:40
SPEAKER_01: Well, I it's such an easy, easily parodyable video format that I'm actually surprised no one's done a funny satire of it yet.
12:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
12:47
SPEAKER_00: We're just late on it.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: But I just like there's something kind of I felt like sort of crazy.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe that's just showing you how my algorithm is trained now.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: But I was like, literally within eight hours, I see two more people who have made, you know, tons of money.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: And it's all selling digital products?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Okay, all these like$57 products.
13:06
SPEAKER_00: And I know you should have had a good Balloon's digital products launching soon.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Forthcoming.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Balloon's$57.
13:13
SPEAKER_01: But so you're saying you actually love and support this now, or what's the I would say I don't know if I love and support it.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: I would I think what I feel is these women are being savvy.
13:24
SPEAKER_00: And they're kind of like striking while the iron's hot.
13:26
SPEAKER_00: I don't think they're selling smoke and mirrors.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: I mean, like this person is the woman who I watched last night, she sold a course about how to use Claude to edit your video.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: I got it.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: Um and that's like an interesting use case for a guy to be like, actually, it can cut all the silences, it can like, you know, it can kind of do these these technical like first passes of your video.
13:46
SPEAKER_00: And she's teaching other people how to use Claude.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: So she's kind of just saying, like, here are the Claude skills, here's how you set it up.
13:51
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: But that's not smoke and mirrors.
13:53
SPEAKER_01: No, it's listen, it's not.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: Is it still selling a dream?
13:56
SPEAKER_00: It's hopium.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
13:57
SPEAKER_00: But I mean that telling your husband, that's the hopium part, I feel like because then people are like, you know, I want to see a lesbian couple talk about this.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just see telling my husband.
14:07
SPEAKER_01: I I I am very interested in the the thought process of I'm a misinterest online.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Because I truly think in every I think in every example I've ever heard of like man versus woman, I am on the woman's side.
14:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:27
SPEAKER_01: I'm team, I'm team Amber Heard.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_01: I'm team FKA Twigs.
14:31
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I am confident that these w I'm on these women's sides.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
14:36
SPEAKER_01: But when it's but I don't know that um I don't I don't buy into I don't there's a tweet.
14:42
SPEAKER_01: I do not support all women.
14:44
SPEAKER_01: Some of you bitches are fucking dumb.
14:46
SPEAKER_01: And that's my take.
14:48
SPEAKER_01: I I support all women, like I want us to have an equitable future.
14:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:53
SPEAKER_01: I want us to be on the same, yeah, I want us to have the same rights as everyone as men.
14:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: But do I support every single thing that every woman does?
15:03
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And I don't think that makes me anti-feminist.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: I'm a feminist.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, I think we have to like part of what I what I hope to do in my content is like encourage people to be critical about what they're consuming.
15:15
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: You know, like think about it.
15:16
SPEAKER_00: And you and you do this too, where you're like, nothing's real on the internet, you know, like everything was like that camera was set up at that like you know, like it's you have to sort of be like, what are all the layers here that that tr uh tried to fool me into thinking something or feeling something?
15:31
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I don't know.
15:33
SPEAKER_00: I think I just like started to it's like once that you notice something three times on the internet, uh you're on the you're on the precipice of something and I'm like scared for what's gonna happen.
15:43
SPEAKER_01: So you are scared.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: So wait, do you embrace this?
15:46
SPEAKER_01: Or are you Okay, let me think about how I feel about this.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: I would say I don't embrace it.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: I think it's worth understanding.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: I put it in the understand category.
15:55
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm like, what is it about this that I am like, I'm bristling.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: That's what's happening.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm bristling because I'm worried something bad's gonna happen.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: To the women?
16:05
SPEAKER_00: Maybe not to the women specifically, but it's like it's gonna become, it's gonna be like there something's gonna happen where suddenly trying to make money this way is like gonna be so I don't know.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: They're gonna denigrate it.
16:18
SPEAKER_00: So somebody's gonna denigrate it.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's like I don't know, I'm not saying it's the best way to make money, but it's just like I think it's easy to attack the ways that women figure out how to monetize their influence online.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: Right.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I don't know, let them.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: This is like the we we talk about this all the time, but it's like this is the grips of capitalism.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: It's true.
16:36
SPEAKER_00: They're figuring out how to make some.
16:37
SPEAKER_01: Is it the most evil thing for them to sell?
16:39
SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, and do I guess I would think to myself, if a man is doing this, which men do, certainly.
16:48
SPEAKER_01: Men sell courses, men sell digital products, men do it as well.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: If but if it's the exact same thing, if a man selling a digital product for$57 that is just like a template, um is that the most evil thing in the world?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: No.
17:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, is it like amazing?
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Probably not.
17:06
SPEAKER_00: Maybe also I mean, okay, I'll I'll shut up about this in a second.
17:10
SPEAKER_00: But it's like maybe the part of it that I do feel critical of is like when you tell the husband and you film that, and that becomes the video that does the best.
17:20
SPEAKER_00: It's sort of like, well, fuck, she just like made a really good course and put in all that work.
17:24
SPEAKER_00: But the thing that you like is like getting to tell the husband.
17:27
SPEAKER_01: I don't know, there's something that feels like Ooh, new layer.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: Yes, you're so right.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, like it's just it's Mommy mommy got a bag.
17:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
17:34
SPEAKER_00: And it and it's it's not like any of the husbands have had bad reactions, like they've all been crying, which is like, you know, they're they're yeah, they're grateful or something.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: But it's just and they're also like, oh shit, the camera's on, I gotta perform.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's that.
17:45
SPEAKER_01: Get those tears out.
17:47
SPEAKER_00: But just something about that.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Something about like the true success is telling your husband that you made money, or something like that.
17:52
SPEAKER_00: Rather than being like, hey, I I'm really savvy and I like figured out a way to make money on the internet.
17:57
SPEAKER_00: It's like my husband is so and my husband is happy.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
18:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that is a new I didn't even think about that layer, honestly.
18:04
SPEAKER_01: I didn't think about it in that way.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: So I do think it is worth understanding.
18:09
SPEAKER_01: I do think we're gonna see this more and more.
18:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
18:11
SPEAKER_01: Out of curiosity, I did go and look at the original, not the original original, but the 700k gal.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: I looked at some of her more recent videos on TikTok.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: They're okay.
18:22
SPEAKER_00: They're like I can't- I mean, they're all using Claude to edit their videos.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: So what happens is Claude edits videos in a specific way, and they all have a certain look to them, look and feel, and they're all like kind of millennial moms who are saying like this is a way you can make money and still stay so stay home with your kids.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: So there's something there too where it's like, why can't women just have a job?
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Why do they have to take care of the kids and make life?
18:44
SPEAKER_01: That's I was just about to say that, and like, you know, maybe I'll regret saying this, but like, I don't want to stay home with my kid.
18:51
SPEAKER_01: I want her to go to school.
18:53
SPEAKER_01: Go to school.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: I think you're in school all day.
18:55
SPEAKER_00: I'm at work, it like works out.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: That it's more like should the expectation be that they have to be so savvy that they found a way to make money while full-time carrying things.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: This is too much work.
19:05
SPEAKER_00: Too much work.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: This is too much work.
19:06
SPEAKER_01: I thought AI was making our lives better, we don't have to do this much work.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: It's too much work.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, oh my god.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: The story is really that like women are working the same amount of physical labor and domestic duties and having to master.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: And we yeah, and we found this side hustle that's making us 700k.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: Women are very powerful, I will say that.
19:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, put me on the record for that.
19:24
SPEAKER_01: Women are powerful.
19:25
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, speaking of women and their power, Mara Detman, who is uh, I think she's sort of like a futurist on Substack, she clocked that women in blue-collar jobs is picking up like as a trend across TikTok and Instagram.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: We love that.
19:39
SPEAKER_01: We support that.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: But apparently, it's not just like oh, the algorithm likes this or the vibes are shifting.
19:45
SPEAKER_00: Like apparently it's it's like backed up by data.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: Like there are more women entering blue-collar jobs right now.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: Right.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's kind of fascinating.
19:54
SPEAKER_01: I think it's fabulous.
19:55
SPEAKER_01: They're entering trades, entering, I mean, there is one gal who I get, she uh is a locksmith in New York City.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: And yeah, it's part of sort of the brand of I'm locked out of my apartment.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: It's 2 a.m.
20:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:07
SPEAKER_01: Who do I want to call?
20:08
SPEAKER_01: This adorable gal who I've seen on TikTok and trust, or some guy at 2 a.m.
20:13
SPEAKER_01: when I'm probably calling.
20:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
20:15
SPEAKER_01: And so I think it is I've been seeing some of this as well.
20:19
SPEAKER_01: For me, it's entirely vibes.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: I have no data.
20:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I there was a uh a woman contractor saying, like, I got into contracting.
20:28
SPEAKER_01: Men are making this seem harder than it is.
20:30
SPEAKER_01: Like, and and the comment sections are all filled with people saying, God, I wish I could hire a lady contractor.
20:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, it would probably be so much easier to communicate with them.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: They'd probably be, yeah, I mean, communication is a huge factor, but it would probably just make it a much more seamless experience doing whatever.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not a homeowner, so I don't know a lot about contracting and like the dealing with a contractor, but well, they're famously like tricky to deal with.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: Right.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: There used to be a um like a car mechanic on Bathurst near uh college.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: Downtown Canada drop that was all female.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
21:07
SPEAKER_00: And we always brought our car there and and like loved it.
21:11
SPEAKER_00: It ended up closing down, but it was like we would go extra far to go there because it was the best.
21:17
SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, I think it's I think it's a wholesome like trend.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna put that in quotations.
21:22
SPEAKER_00: Right.
21:23
SPEAKER_00: But I I do like the idea of more women, more people in general, young people, being encouraged to go into blue-collar work.
21:29
SPEAKER_00: And I I'm not surprised that it's catnip for social media because listen, we need them.
21:34
SPEAKER_01: Yes, we need them.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: We actually don't need another app.
21:38
SPEAKER_01: We need someone fixing a vehicle or yeah, contra doing contractor work, whatever that feels like.
21:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, I mean, yeah, like I don't know, welding and like there's actually somebody who I was following who does like drywall.
21:51
SPEAKER_00: Their videos are like poetry.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: Like I was like watching absolutely mesmerized.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: Like they're so good.
21:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, I think okay, if you had to have a Trades or like working with your hands job, what would it be?
22:03
SPEAKER_00: I'd starve.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: I already know what I'd be.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I already know.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: I've never done this, but I have 110% confidence that I would love being an upholsterer, reupholsterer.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
22:15
SPEAKER_00: Like yes.
22:16
SPEAKER_00: I I like I like fabric and stuff like that, but like staple guns, uh being meticulous about like putting a cushion on something, doing some nails.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, you should do it.
22:25
SPEAKER_01: I think you'd be good at it.
22:27
SPEAKER_01: You're a crafty gal.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: You're crafty.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: The rest of us, I'm a 2026 gal.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Like I am useless.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: I will starve if like I have no skills whatsoever other than talking to Mike looking at the camera, like doing meetings and emails.
22:41
SPEAKER_01: Like, I no, I will not.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: I think you could do other stuff.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, upholstery would be my business.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
22:48
SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've never tried it, but I just know I'd love it.
22:50
SPEAKER_00: Carms coverings.
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Carms coverings.
22:52
SPEAKER_00: I love Carms Cushions.
22:54
SPEAKER_01: Yes! Oh my gosh, I support this.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
22:57
SPEAKER_01: I I wow, I've really and I've never even thought about if I had to have a skill that actually was useful, what would it be?
23:04
SPEAKER_01: I've never even.
23:05
SPEAKER_00: Oh, and I think too, like if the apocalypse, uh when the apocalypse happens, I will be the person.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: I have a floor loom where I can weave fabric.
23:13
SPEAKER_00: I will be making the clothing for us.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: You will people, yeah.
23:16
SPEAKER_00: I know who to call.
23:17
SPEAKER_00: You you knit that you kweaters.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sweaters.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: You want a loincloth?
23:21
SPEAKER_00: I can whip that up for you.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you need a you need a toga?
23:24
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: Uh wonder how the style's gonna be when we're in the apocalypse.
23:28
SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I can't wait to find out.
23:30
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: I on a completely, like completely different note.
23:37
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:38
SPEAKER_01: I will share something I'm understanding.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:40
SPEAKER_01: Well that I have understood for a while.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: You you've got it on lock, yeah.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, just because I worked, I I brag, I worked on it when I was at TikTok.
23:48
SPEAKER_01: Ooh.
23:49
SPEAKER_01: Microdramas.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
23:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: So microdramas, like I said, a couple years ago when I was at TikTok, was the hot new thing.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: It was like, this is booming in China.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: So we have to find a way to recreate or like set the scene to recreate this in the States because people are gonna eat this shit up.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: And guess what?
24:08
SPEAKER_01: They were a million percent right.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, it is a billion-dollar industry.
24:13
SPEAKER_01: It is sort of like engulfing Hollywood, and there was this great feature in the New York Times this past week.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Let me look up the exact name of the author because it was uh fab.
24:23
SPEAKER_01: Daniel Collitz wrote this long piece in the New York Times about microdramas.
24:28
SPEAKER_01: And he goes and visits the sets, he talks to the actors, he talks to the showrunners, some of the people at these studios that are popping up.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: And it is, it is, you know, speak about dystopian.
24:38
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it is a very, I don't know if eye-opening is the right term, but it's like, okay, so here's where we're at.
24:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's non-union, it pays shit.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, is it good for your brain to watch this stuff?
24:52
SPEAKER_01: It's all, you know, it's all my forbidden alpha, my like I married the billionaire's toilet cleaner who ends up being the billionaire.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: Screen screencapping what I'm getting hit with in my algorithm about um these mini dramas.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: And I don't like I don't click on anything fantasy related in my algorithm, and yet I keep on seeing it's like lots of guys who own dragons.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:14
SPEAKER_00: And women women are always like, oh my god, how am I gonna deal with this dragon?
25:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
25:20
SPEAKER_01: How am I gonna have sex with this dragon in episode three?
25:23
SPEAKER_01: Uh and then you have to start paying for episode four, because the first three are free.
25:27
SPEAKER_00: It's lots of jealousy, lots of love triangle.
25:29
SPEAKER_00: Lots of Cinderella story.
25:31
SPEAKER_00: Cinderella is all men who have just shredded six packs, like a body fat percentage of under one.
25:37
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
25:37
SPEAKER_01: And there is in the piece he talks about there is like there's all these new sort of burgeoning trends within micro dramas.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: One of them is like from fat to thin.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like she's getting she's getting ripped and smoked.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: Mixy for her revenge.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Revenge body.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Uh-huh.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: Remember that?
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
25:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: So there's all these sort of micro trends within this industry, but it's he's on set with the with the crew, and they're, you know, they're like, this sucks.
26:02
SPEAKER_01: I know I'm making shit.
26:03
SPEAKER_01: They're paying me nothing.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: They don't care that like the lighting's off, that the script makes no sense.
26:07
SPEAKER_01: The scripts are often literally from the Chinese microdramas that already exist, used AI to translate, and then didn't bother to have a human go and say, actually, we don't speak like that here.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: Like it is, it is, it is from an artistic standpoint, not great.
26:25
SPEAKER_01: But I'm surprised they're still using humans.
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Like they're still using AI.
26:28
SPEAKER_01: That is how, spoiler alert, I do think everyone should read the piece.
26:31
SPEAKER_01: That is how the piece ends, which is everyone in the micro drama community in Hollywood, or a couple key people are like, oh shit, they have found a way to make it AI.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: I will say I have like encountered both in my feeds, and I love the ones with humans because the acting is so bad that there's like a kind of like it's low budge.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: It's low budge.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: There is it when it's with humans, you could I'm thinking to myself, this reminds me of so many things.
26:56
SPEAKER_01: Lifetime movies.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:57
SPEAKER_01: It in the piece it talks about the porn industry.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they aren't obviously simulating sex, actual sex, but they are getting hot and heavy.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: And it seems like the all of the all of the storylines are just like trying to get to this some sort of sexual sexual frustration.
27:13
SPEAKER_00: Or yes, yeah, like some kind of redemption arc that involves being hot.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: It's all about being hot and and like revenge from friends or enemies to lovers.
27:23
SPEAKER_01: It's ev it's all of those, all of those things that are popular, you know, within book talk or and like fanfiction.
27:30
SPEAKER_01: Fan fiction, yes.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:32
SPEAKER_01: And it is it the piece also talks about Quibi, which I don't know if you're aware.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: I had a podcast about Quibi where we got served to see some desists from Quibi to stop doing our podcast.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: But we did eventually have Jeffrey Katzenberg himself come on the podcast to apologize to us, hopefully so.
27:51
SPEAKER_01: Um but but Jeffrey Katzenberg had Quibi, which was short, you know, short just for your phone.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Short, yeah, just for your phone.
27:58
SPEAKER_01: It was it was vertical or horizontal, it switched, it had that technology, which was kind of interesting.
28:04
SPEAKER_01: But it was very premium, very highbrow, movie stars.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, Steven Spielberg might produce a show for Quibi.
28:11
SPEAKER_01: And it it obviously completely failed because it's just too expensive and there wasn't an appetite for it.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: But the the piece also makes the sort of distinction of potentially he was really onto something.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but like it makes me think, okay, like, can't this UX be used for good too?
28:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, couldn't there be like, what about if it was like microdramas to teach kids about like consent or something?
28:38
SPEAKER_00: Or like or even just like fucking math?
28:40
SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
28:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:42
SPEAKER_00: But like, okay, say it's like a topic that's more like you just like have like, or even okay, something that's less like um, you feel like you're being forced to learn about it.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, what if it was just like, hey, we're talking about some sort of like prehistoric dinosaur realm or something, but in these little bite-sized snippets where you're like, okay, like I'll watch another minute of that.
29:02
SPEAKER_01: I think that is totally fertile grounds that someone very some industrial person should try and do.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:08
SPEAKER_01: And fuck the algo.
29:10
SPEAKER_00: Okay, yes, because so one of the things I was like, must talk to Danielle about this is that so Instagram has a new, I don't know if they call it an AI agent or an AI assistant, but it's like uh it's again a dialogical, conversational thing where you're talking back and forth, but it can analyze your content.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: And you can say, like, I think you basically are like, hey, can you look at my post from the last 30 days and tell me like what I should dig into more or like what I should repeat or whatever?
29:33
SPEAKER_00: And like, I guess some of it is just like pattern matching, but also some of it is sort of saying, Hey, if you made a post that helped people with this, you could probably see a little bit more, you know, reach or whatever.
29:43
SPEAKER_00: And it's the point is that it is some sort of AI entity that you talk to that will help you make better content, better performing content.
29:52
SPEAKER_00: And this is kind of like I don't know, just it's like breaking my brain a little bit.
29:56
SPEAKER_00: There's also a new feature from YouTube where you can A-B test, like on YouTube you can already A-B test um thumbnails, but now you'll be able to A B test like the actual content in your videos.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: And people already do this with trial reels on Insta on Instagram, where you'll kind of like I'll I do it sometimes where I'll record two different hooks and then I publish both of them and I see which one like moves better.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: And then I might bring the winning format over to TikTok.
30:20
SPEAKER_00: So like A B testing is already a big part of it, but this this is just bringing it.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: It's almost like we have been using trial reels incorrectly to A-B test, but now that the platform is saying, like, yes, A B shit A B test the shit out of your content.
30:35
SPEAKER_00: It's like uh for to what end?
30:37
SPEAKER_00: Like, are we making content or are we just like giving the algorithm the snack it likes the most?
30:41
SPEAKER_00: You know?
30:42
SPEAKER_00: So it it's and I'm not like anti this, but I guess I would put this in the understand category.
30:48
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what is going on here?
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Right.
30:50
SPEAKER_00: But it feels like we're clocking in for shifts even more, you know, where it's like, hey, hey, no, that's not what the algorithm likes.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: The algorithm likes this.
30:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, sometimes you do have to take a step step back and remember that these platforms depend on you.
31:05
SPEAKER_01: I know, I know, but it's like what what's happening?
31:07
SPEAKER_01: But this relationship is so fraught.
31:09
SPEAKER_01: It's a very fraught relationship.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: They do not exist without people, people's unpaid labor.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, they don't.
31:18
SPEAKER_01: And without obviously the audience as well.
31:20
SPEAKER_01: But yeah, but so they are very heavily incentivized to keep you on there, keep you posting, keep you trying new things.
31:26
SPEAKER_01: Just feed me, feed me, feed me.
31:28
SPEAKER_01: Emily Sunberg.
31:30
SPEAKER_01: We love her, but yeah, it is it is a never-ending appetite that I don't know where I don't know where it goes.
31:37
SPEAKER_01: And clearly it's it's always gonna have some other tool for you to try or thing to optimize.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: I know.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Everything is needs to be optimized.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
31:46
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I don't know.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: If it feels just kind of like the idea too of like having this in-depth conversation with another bot is I'm just like, I don't want to talk to more bots.
31:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to talk to more bots either.
31:57
SPEAKER_01: I will go on record and saying, I think AI is fine.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
32:01
SPEAKER_01: It's fine, but it's really not gonna be a good idea.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: The official loons uh statement on AI, it's fine.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
32:07
SPEAKER_01: I'm not like I'm not I if you hate the data centers, yeah, sure, I agree.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna stick my neck out for that.
32:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but as someone who does have to use it and uses it for work, for uh I've used it for other things.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: I've tried to make a budget with it.
32:23
SPEAKER_01: My financial planning.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this is fine.
32:27
SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's not great, it's not Yeah, we could have like we could talk for an entire hour about how we feel about AI, but I think like if you work in a non-blue-collar job, you have no choice but to be utilizing it.
32:39
SPEAKER_00: And I do think there's like a this really uncomfortable tension right now, which is that like in in your working life, you you cannot be anything less than supportive of AI, and yet, you know, that might not really align with your values and all of that.
32:54
SPEAKER_00: And so like I feel like in the workplace it's really hard to work with AI in a way that feels totally you, you aligned.
33:04
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: Um I'm ready to talk about something I probably am gonna ignore.
33:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:10
SPEAKER_01: I ignore, I ignore all I think every wellness trend that comes across my feed.
33:17
SPEAKER_01: Just because I'm very simple.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: I'm a simple gal.
33:20
SPEAKER_01: I'm pretty simple too.
33:22
SPEAKER_01: If you drink water, exercise, sunscreen, sunscreen.
33:25
SPEAKER_01: Wear sunscreen and a hat.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
33:28
SPEAKER_01: If you got a hat, yeah, um, you know, take a walk, get fresh air.
33:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably don't smoke or drink.
33:34
unknown: Yeah.
33:34
SPEAKER_01: I think if you do those things, you're and you know, eat some veggies and fruits.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:38
SPEAKER_01: You don't have to eat it all constantly, but just a couple a day.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: I think you're probably gonna be okay.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: But you know, wellness is like we gotta optimize, we gotta be so healthy, and here's the new way that you're gonna be healthy.
33:51
SPEAKER_01: And the newest one that I've gotten, and we all saw this coming.
33:54
SPEAKER_01: We saw this coming a mile away.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: Everyone was on protein.
33:57
SPEAKER_01: There was already whispers, there's already whispers, protein's hot, but you know what's coming?
34:01
SPEAKER_01: Fiber! Fiber! Fiber is all over the place, and especially big bean.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: Big bean bean of fits all over the feed.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: I want to have some beanings.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: I watched one video, the full video about this gal talking about how much her life has changed since she started eating two cups of beans a day.
34:18
SPEAKER_01: And you're not bad.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm getting a lot of bean videos.
34:21
SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's funny because you sent me the video about the bean woman.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: I did.
34:25
SPEAKER_00: And I I ate it up.
34:28
SPEAKER_00: Not not literally, but I was like, I like talked to Pat, my husband, later that night, and I was like, I think we should eat more beans.
34:33
SPEAKER_00: So like I went the total opposite.
34:35
SPEAKER_00: I was like, she influenced me.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: Right.
34:37
SPEAKER_00: I took her her word for it 100%, zero skepticism.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: You were like, surely this can't be the way.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Well, I for my usual take on a trend like this is I'm like, ooh, should I eat beans?
34:49
SPEAKER_01: And then I think to myself, I don't like beans.
34:51
SPEAKER_01: We've been none.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't like any beans?
34:52
SPEAKER_01: I don't like beans.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: I don't like what about chickpeas?
34:55
SPEAKER_01: Chickpeas if they're fried.
34:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, okay.
34:58
SPEAKER_00: But what about like in a salad?
34:59
SPEAKER_00: Say there was like feta, tomatoes, um, cucumbers, some sort of herb, and chickpea, chickpeas.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: I'd really rather not.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: I'd rather not.
35:07
SPEAKER_00: I'd rather opt out and get some more cheese or something.
35:10
SPEAKER_00: What about rice and beans in a burrito?
35:11
SPEAKER_01: I don't get burritos.
35:12
SPEAKER_01: I prefer a taco or a quesadilla.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:14
SPEAKER_01: Or a fajita, so then hot.
35:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
35:17
SPEAKER_01: I just uh beans are not they've never been a thing for me.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: We don't eat beans in my family.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: What can I say?
35:22
SPEAKER_01: But I was I was like, maybe I will try beans, and then I thought I have to go buy a bunch of cans of beans, bring them home, rinse them, and then I'm just gonna have to revisit my entire diet to find a way to fit beans into it.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna do this.
35:35
SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, I've I feel like we differ on this because I I think maybe because the woman was claiming that the bean, the benefits were that she actually had reduced anxiety, and I was like, so what?
35:45
SPEAKER_00: Um use less of that.
35:48
SPEAKER_00: But I I like beans as a thing, so it's not a stretch for me.
35:52
SPEAKER_00: I don't have to change my life.
35:53
SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
35:54
SPEAKER_01: If it's not, if it's not like shoehorning a trend into your life just because everyone suddenly says this is the way to live, I think you are gonna be more successful at it.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: But I'm just so stuck in my ways that I it's very hard for me to adapt to a trend.
36:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
36:08
SPEAKER_00: So wait, on the topic of fiber, I want to tell you about a business idea I have.
36:12
SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm gonna share it here because the truth is I'm not gonna go into manufacturing anytime soon and I don't want to.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: So it's a free idea.
36:17
SPEAKER_00: It's a free idea.
36:18
SPEAKER_00: If you want to take this idea and run with it, you can.
36:20
SPEAKER_00: Um, so it started off as protein cigarettes, but then I do understand that protein has is now passe.
36:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
36:27
SPEAKER_00: Um, fiber cigarettes.
36:29
SPEAKER_00: So, what about a cigarette where you get 10 grams of fiber while you smoke it?
36:33
SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, you're doing damage to your lungs, but also doing good things for your gut.
36:38
SPEAKER_00: Shit yourself clean.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: Make it someone out there, big tobacco, get on the horn.
36:46
SPEAKER_00: But this is a great idea.
36:47
SPEAKER_00: I have a related story for you that I cannot wait to tell you.
36:50
SPEAKER_00: I have a few Canadian like news items, and I'm gonna I'm gonna say news like this.
36:56
SPEAKER_00: Um Canadian zone, Canadian.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Canadian Corner.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about a few pieces of really uh important Canadian news.
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Starting with a Toronto comedian named Sophie Land, I think, uh organized a meetup at Trinity Bellwoods Park, which like can you make like as a former New Yorker-ish, what's the equivalent?
37:18
SPEAKER_01: Oh, um I maybe McCarran Park in in Williamsburg.
37:23
SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: Cool, a cool park in downtown Canada.
37:26
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Oh, the coolest park.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes in Canada, for sure.
37:30
SPEAKER_00: Central in Toronto.
37:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
37:32
SPEAKER_00: So it organized this meetup, and more than a hundred strangers, yeah, a hundred might not sound like a lot to you, but this is Canada.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: In Canada, we don't have the popularity.
37:39
SPEAKER_00: We have like 3,000 people total.
37:41
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: So a meetup where people came to exchange cigarettes, and people were so excited.
37:48
SPEAKER_00: And apparently, people brought like cigarettes from all over the world.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Oh my god.
37:52
SPEAKER_00: Like there were paramenthals, there were red wine-flavored cigarettes.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
37:56
SPEAKER_00: I don't smoke.
37:57
SPEAKER_00: Just no, I mean we are non-smokers.
37:59
SPEAKER_00: No, and I never have because I know I would like it so much.
38:02
SPEAKER_00: I can just I already know this about myself.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: Like, my whole life I've been like, Carmen, do not smoke cigarettes because you will love it.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you'll love it.
38:09
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
38:10
SPEAKER_00: I think I would love it too.
38:11
SPEAKER_00: And addictive personality too.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: I'm addictive, yeah.
38:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm also anxious, and I just know it would be so great for just like, you know, squashing some of that.
38:20
SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
38:20
SPEAKER_01: I think it's just unfortunately it is chic to be out there.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: I mean, can you imagine me with my tiny scarf?
38:25
SPEAKER_00: A pair menthol?
38:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
38:27
unknown: Yeah.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so, anyways, I thought this was really cute and and wholesome.
38:31
SPEAKER_00: Um, it was reported in Silence Brand, which is a uh uh sub stack I subscribe to.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: And you know what I think it really speaks to?
38:39
SPEAKER_00: Less about our love of cigarettes and more about like we want a little community.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: Oh, we want a little family.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: That is why that is why cults or um I'm very pro-cult.
38:50
SPEAKER_01: I just want to put that theory on the records, conspiracy theorists, you know, in in kind of dark and sad ways, yeah.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: Why they're so powerful is because everyone is just looking to bond with someone else about something they believe in or something that they could be led to believe in even deeper as long as they had someone to talk to.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: I think like I'm at the exact perfect age to be absorbed by a cult.
39:13
SPEAKER_00: Do you, do you, you at this point?
39:15
SPEAKER_00: Okay, like so about to be 40.
39:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like I'm on like the precipice of like a new season in my life.
39:21
SPEAKER_00: If somebody came to me, a cool woman with a scarf, and she had really cool cigarettes, and she was like, and she just like not she wouldn't talk about the cult the first time we met.
39:32
SPEAKER_00: It would be like the fourth, the fourth time.
39:34
SPEAKER_00: She'd be like, Oh, there's actually this thing I'm going to later tonight.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: And I'd be like, What?
39:38
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, Oh, I don't know if you'd if you'd like it.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: And I just, I already know I would be led into the darkness and I would I would go into a cult.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
39:46
SPEAKER_01: I would I wish I could, but I think I'm just too, I'm too like, I sometimes I have a hard time.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: No, I don't know that it's I'm too smart.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm like, I I consider myself too unpredictable.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Oh.
39:59
SPEAKER_01: Where and I like, I really like that about myself.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:03
SPEAKER_01: Where I'm like, you actually will never know my next move.
40:05
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Like when people think that they know my taste, I'm like, you don't know.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: And I, when everyone likes something, that's when I start questioning.
40:13
SPEAKER_01: When the cult zigs, you zag.
40:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wouldn't be able to help myself.
40:16
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:17
SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't be able to help myself being like, at the cult leader, I'd be looking at him, I'd be thinking, we think he's this hot.
40:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, if it was a male cult leader, I would say no.
40:25
SPEAKER_00: If it was a cool female cult leader, yeah.
40:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
40:29
SPEAKER_00: I'd be signing up.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Well, there you go.
40:32
SPEAKER_01: Listen, there's a lot of, there's a lot of um of fun ideas out there to get Carmen's attention.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Get get a fiber cigarette going.
40:40
SPEAKER_00: Fiber cigarettes, just a general cult that like absolves me of anxiety.
40:45
SPEAKER_01: I love it, but I do, you know, props to that comedian.
40:47
SPEAKER_01: I agree.
40:48
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's looking for that community.
40:49
SPEAKER_00: If it has to be based on cigarettes, so be it.
40:50
SPEAKER_00: Good for her.
40:51
SPEAKER_00: Good for her.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Good for her.
40:52
SPEAKER_00: Okay, another Canadian piece of news.
40:54
SPEAKER_00: Ann Carson wins the Nobel Prize for Literature.
40:56
SPEAKER_00: Did you hear about this?
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Did not.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: Big, big ol' news yesterday.
41:00
SPEAKER_00: Ann Carson wrote.
41:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to mess it up.
41:03
SPEAKER_00: I I have a title in my mind, but if I embarrass myself.
41:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay, Autobiography and Red.
41:07
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love her.
41:08
SPEAKER_00: I love I'm seeing a picture of this woman from the city.
41:10
SPEAKER_00: Autobiography of Red?
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
41:11
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
41:12
SPEAKER_00: This so that's the word I that's the title I was gonna say, Autobiography of Red.
41:16
SPEAKER_00: But she is such a badass.
41:18
SPEAKER_00: Like I watched so many clips of her yesterday, and somebody was like, uh, they were like, What's your writing advice?
41:23
SPEAKER_00: And she's like, I don't know, I've never asked for any.
41:26
SPEAKER_00: And just she just like doesn't give a fuck.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: She's so old.
41:29
SPEAKER_00: And I love when old people win a Nobel Prize too, because you know they don't really care.
41:33
SPEAKER_00: You know, they're not they're not like, oh, I hope I get the Nobel Prize by the time I'm 90, you know?
41:37
SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, you don't care.
41:38
SPEAKER_00: Don't you?
41:39
SPEAKER_01: It's exciting.
41:39
SPEAKER_01: As we get older, we you know, we jokingly start this podcast always saying we're two old ladies trying to understand the internet.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: But as I get older, I am it is very freeing to be like, oh, who gives a fuck?
41:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
41:49
SPEAKER_00: And she's like gives the least.
41:50
SPEAKER_00: Um but I just was like, yeah, a Canadian just wanted, and it's a woman, and she writes like kind of crazy poetry.
41:56
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm just like all things, I'm just like super proud.
41:59
SPEAKER_00: Love her.
42:00
SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll post some clips of her.
42:02
SPEAKER_00: Um we love having Canadian pride, you know?
42:04
SPEAKER_00: And now more than the whole podcast's above.
42:07
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
42:08
SPEAKER_00: Speaking of cool Canadian women, I read a headline.
42:11
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I didn't read the article, so I don't actually know what happens, but yeah.
42:15
SPEAKER_00: Pamela Anderson has a seven-acre property on Vancouver Island, and she's using the harvest for food banks.
42:22
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, we yes, Pamela Anderson was back in the sort of cultural sphere because of the Pam and Tommy show, the fictional show, and she did not like that.
42:30
SPEAKER_01: She was not a fan of that.
42:31
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, fair.
42:32
SPEAKER_01: A documentary about Pamela came out quite around the same time where we got to see the true Pam, see how she's living her life.
42:39
SPEAKER_01: She did a a new a new uh stint on Chicago on Broadway.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, she's still doing things.
42:45
SPEAKER_01: She was in the naked gun revival with the Amnisa and they had their little fake romance.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's right.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: So she's back in the public eye and in a very cool way.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: She does make me proud.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: I think it is cool that she went from, you know, a very 90s version of hyper-sexualized playboy, playmate, gal, to what, you know, she's just kind of doing her own thing.
43:03
SPEAKER_00: And she's like kind of anti-makeup or whatever it is, which I'm like, love.
43:07
SPEAKER_00: I just think that takes so much guts, like, especially as like I feel it again, okay, age is always gonna be this thing we talk about, but like it's hard.
43:15
SPEAKER_00: Like, you see these physical signs of aging, it's like hard to make peace with it.
43:19
SPEAKER_00: Much more so if you're in the public eye and you have to go appear at these, like, I don't know, whatever, galas and events and shit like that.
43:26
SPEAKER_00: And I just think her arc has been so yeah, like incredible.
43:29
SPEAKER_00: Where she I think she has reclaimed her celebrity in ways that I really respect.
43:35
SPEAKER_00: And it surprises me zero percent that she's got a cool garden on Vancouver Island.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: I know.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: The fact that she just lives there and she has, I think she at yeah, is it a farm?
43:43
SPEAKER_01: Or is it just I don't I mean what what is a farm?
43:46
SPEAKER_01: You know, what is a farm?
43:48
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
43:48
SPEAKER_01: Ask Ballerina.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, but yeah, she she's very cool.
43:53
SPEAKER_01: I I I'm glad you brought that up.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: I'm glad we have three Canadian ladies.
43:58
SPEAKER_01: Three Canadian ladies, yeah.
44:00
SPEAKER_00: And uh on Canadian cigarette uh community, which is so proud of.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: Um thank you all so much for listening.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: This has been Loons.
44:11
SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed, and we will see you next time.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Bye guys.
44:14
SPEAKER_01: Bye.