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88. How to Run Easy: Running Explained · Eat More Carbs | A Period Recovery Podcast

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This is the eat more Carbs podcast.
0:39
Hello and welcome to the eat more carbs podcast.
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My name is Jenna Fischer and I'm joined by my Co host Riley
0:44
Beatty. We're both dietitians and each
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Tuesday we are sharing all of our easy and simple sports
0:49
nutrition tips to help you level up your performance as an
0:51
athlete. If you're loving the Eat More
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Carbs podcast, subscribing rating and reviewing the podcast
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really helps other athletes like yourself find us so that they
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can Start learning about fueling for performance.
1:01
We know there's a lot of nutrition advice out there and
1:03
as your go to podcast for sports nutrition, it can help spread
1:05
the knowledge of what we're sharing on today's episode to
1:08
help other athletes avoid nonsense nutrition advice.
1:10
We hope you enjoy today's episode.
1:12
In today's episode, we're talking to Elizabeth Scott from
1:15
Running Explained. We're talking all about running,
1:17
the myths about running, and how to improve your time, and she
1:19
gives some of even her best tips for improving your time to
1:22
hopefully qualify for a major. Before we get into some of those
1:25
questions with Elizabeth Riley, update me on your high and your
1:27
low from this past week. Jenna Irene, I have Smith.
1:30
That is definitely my high of the week.
1:32
I ran my half marathon this past weekend.
1:35
I ran the Charlotte half, which very excited that I was able to
1:39
do that, you know, in this postpartum phase of my life.
1:41
That was super fun. I was ahead of the time.
1:44
I guess I beat the time that I thought or I projected.
1:47
So that was definitely my high. My low also has to do with the
1:51
race and I thought it was just a really great reflection and a
1:54
story that I wanted to share on the podcast because there are
1:57
just so many parallels with this particular story when it comes
2:00
to fueling with the race. I was in like corral B.
2:05
So the front of the corral was like an hour and 45 minute pacer
2:09
and then the ski corral, the beginning of that was an hour
2:14
and 52 minute pacer. So that hour and 52 minute time
2:18
was a little bit closer to the time that I thought I was going
2:21
to get that I had kind of trained for that I had projected
2:24
for. So I knew if I beat that hour
2:26
and 52 like pacer, I would get a time that I wanted.
2:30
I lined up, kind of started my race.
2:32
I know that you have ran a lot of races.
2:34
So the first like 2 miles, I feel like it's like a boxing
2:37
contest because you're just trying to like get past
2:39
everybody, like everybody. Cushing, you're like a little
2:41
claustrophobic. Get Me Out of this.
2:43
I have been. Training for a certain pace.
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I have my garment, I'm tracking my pace.
2:48
I feel very good about my pace, my model for my entire.
2:51
Race was like. Don't run fast because what I've
2:53
done in my past races is I have started off too fast and then I
2:57
have lost steam towards the end. And I really, really wanted to
3:01
focus this time on having like a progressive race.
3:03
So getting faster as I move throughout my race, I'm checking
3:07
my garment. I'm like, hold yourself back.
3:08
Like all these people are flying by at about a mile and a half,
3:11
the hour and 52 minute pacer flies by me.
3:15
And with the pacer, there's always like a group of people
3:18
around the pacer because they're trying to get a certain time.
3:20
So I get passed by this huge group of people and I start to
3:23
have like a mental breakdown because I was like, Oh my gosh,
3:27
I just got passed by this guy. I guess I'm running super, super
3:30
slow because he like flew by me. I was like, do not worry about
3:32
it. Just focus on yourself.
3:34
Do not worry about anybody else. He was.
3:36
Probably like a minute ahead of me.
3:37
I'm super competitive. I know you understand this.
3:39
Long story short. Is I was freaking out, but I
3:41
calmed myself down. I was like, you have to focus on
3:43
yourself. You have to worry about your
3:45
training. You know what pace you need to
3:47
be running at. You know what splits you need to
3:49
be hitting to meet the time that you want to hit.
3:51
And about mile 5, I passed the pacer at that hour and 52 pacing
3:57
mark. I ended up finishing ahead of
3:58
him, but I thought it was just a really interesting moment.
4:00
Even though he had a similar goal to me, I had to really stay
4:04
focused on myself. And there's just so many
4:05
parallels, I feel like that with fueling where you might have a
4:08
certain goal, other athlete that you're competing against or
4:12
playing with, and there's just a different way to get there.
4:16
And also, if you worry about what other people are doing,
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it's going to hinder yourself. Because if I had freaked out and
4:20
I had tried to catch him, I would have probably run too
4:22
fast. I'm going to run out of steam.
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But because I had practice, because I was confident in my
4:27
training plan, I knew that I had to focus on myself and that I
4:30
would accomplish that goal. But if I was too worried about
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what other people are doing, just like nutrition, if you're
4:34
too worried about what other people are doing, it's going to
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hinder you and accomplishing your goal.
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I think that that's such a great point to bring up.
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First of all, I'm so glad that you were able to stay in that
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mindset of I just need to focus on me and remember what my
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training was and my plan was for this race.
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Because even when we go out with the intention of like sticking
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with a pacer or sticking with a pace group, we have to remember
4:53
too that like there's human error and they are human too.
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And that pacer might have gone out too fast or maybe they had
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the goal of instead of progressive, you know,
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descending time in miles, that pacer was like, I need to get
5:04
ahead of this, you know, pack of people so that way I can settle
5:06
into my X per mile pace. Coming back to the idea of this,
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this is my pace, my race, and I'm going to reset the way that
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I've prepared to race. It is such like a powerful thing
5:15
in a race that we don't like give enough credit to.
5:18
So I think that that's a probably a really hard thing to
5:20
navigate during a run. So Congrats on successfully
5:23
being able to kind of overcome that like mental hurdle that was
5:26
unexpected during your race. Yeah.
5:28
And it just like so stressful, but just like you said, right,
5:30
Like he might have, you know, been running up like the hills a
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little bit slower. Just like you said, he wasn't
5:35
doing a progressive run and you have no idea what other people
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are doing but sometimes. Especially.
5:40
With nutrition or with our training plan, we assume that
5:42
what we're doing is wrong. And we have this conversation
5:44
with our clients all the time where somebody will make a
5:46
comment or some will compare our plate to somebody else's plate.
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And it's like, oh, I'm eating too much food or I have too many
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carbohydrates on my plate, or I went back for seconds and that
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person didn't. And it's like, we have to really
5:57
just focus on ourselves because we have no idea what their goals
6:00
are. We have no idea what their
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relationship with food is. We have no idea what their
6:04
fueling foundation is, what their fueling focus is.
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I just thought this was just a really good reminder because we
6:09
see it all the time, nutrition and then we just saw that
6:11
parallel in training. So that was an interesting kind
6:14
of point to talk about. What about you?
6:15
What is your high in your love? My high for the week is that we
6:18
had some really good friends come into town for a super
6:21
exciting reason. My friend was running the Iron
6:23
Man here in Arizona, which is a huge deal, and a ton of training
6:27
that goes into that. And watching him cross the
6:30
finish line last night, like yes, of course we're super
6:32
excited for him and that accomplishment.
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But just watching all of the competitors cross the finish
6:36
line, like it was like people were so emotional because like
6:38
you're exercising for 12 plus hours in a single day.
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So just watching like that accomplishment, huge Congrats
6:44
and kudos to everyone. But especially like our dear
6:46
friend who came in and we got to see finish that and like
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accomplish such a huge milestone in his athletic journey.
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So that was definitely my high was just like watching that my
6:53
low. This happened like just this
6:55
morning, my dear sweet dog George might talk about all the
6:59
time broke open a tennis ball and I've never seen the inside
7:02
of a tennis ball. Like we have tennis balls kind
7:04
of around because he likes to go to the park and play fetch.
7:06
But he broke it open and like got all over our house, all over
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him. So this morning was kind of a
7:11
scramble to make sure we kind of cleaned things up so that way
7:14
Nolan and I could start work and a decent time without more mess
7:17
being made. So that's my love.
7:19
Kind of a silly thing. Elizabeth is going to answer a
7:21
lot of questions about training and about running, which kind of
7:24
is perfect for the next thing that we're going to chat about,
7:26
which is just our training update.
7:28
Riley, you just finished your half marathon, so maybe you can
7:30
give us a little bit of update on what recovery looks like or
7:33
what post race looks like as you know, prepare for your next race
7:37
and kind of getting into that cycle of things.
7:39
And I'll share just a little bit about what's going on with my
7:41
race, which is upcoming here in January.
7:43
So what's going on this week with training for you, Riley?
7:45
I'm glad that you said it's a recovery week because it's
7:47
always a good reminder because you know that rest days are
7:50
sometimes the most challenging. I am progressively getting sorer
7:53
which I didn't know was possible.
7:55
I don't know why I woke up this morning and I was more sorer
7:58
than yet yesterday. I mean, I know people are going
8:00
to come for me with DOMS. I get that.
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But I'm just I'm shocked how sore I am and like so
8:06
definitely, you know, recovering this week and then trying to
8:09
figure out kind of what my next plan is and what my next race
8:13
and focus is. I need some advice from you and
8:15
from anybody listening if they have any input on this.
8:18
But I'm trying to figure out right now if I want to focus on
8:20
increasing my mileage or getting faster at my current pace time.
8:25
I know that you are training for a race right now and coming off
8:29
your marathon this summer. So what are you focused on?
8:31
Like after your marathon kind of going into Phoenix, are you
8:34
focused on like speed? Are you?
8:35
Focusing on like increasing your distance.
8:38
I think everybody's going to be a little bit different.
8:40
For me personally, I had such a large break in between when I
8:43
finished my marathon and when I was planning on running my next
8:46
one. So I took a good chunk of time
8:47
kind of away from running and really did some other things.
8:50
And now working back into things, I've started to increase
8:53
my mileage, but also trying to think about like, are my shorter
8:56
runs faster? Where can I work in speed work?
8:58
Because both of those things are kind of important.
9:00
So because I did have such a longer gap in between my two
9:04
races, I was kind of able to kind of take time off of that
9:06
distance. So now I kind of need to work
9:07
back into distance before I can focus on speed.
9:10
But since you've already kind of done the distance, like, I
9:12
wonder if you would be better off starting to focus on speed
9:15
1st and maybe some shorter distances now that you've kind
9:18
of run a longer one this past weekend?
9:20
Yeah, I'm really debating it because I think something that's
9:23
a huge win for me from this past race is when I ran previously.
9:28
I remember being so sick of running the first time I run 1/2
9:31
marathon. I looked at my husband first
9:32
thing I said as soon as I passed the finish line is like I never
9:34
want to do that ever again. Obviously I have done it again.
9:37
My body is also feeling a lot better where I've had a lot of
9:39
like knee pain in the past. I haven't had that like knock on
9:43
wood. I want to almost like kind of
9:44
take advantage of where I am right now from like a fitness
9:47
level. Trying to figure out that out
9:48
this week. I think that's kind of my
9:50
training update as well as really focus on recovery.
9:52
What does this week look like for you?
9:54
You have like like 8 weeks. Left it's like coming fast, but
9:57
at the same time, like we have holidays in between now and
10:00
then. So it feels like a long way away
10:02
because like there's so much that happens in between now and
10:05
when we run. So this week just continuing to
10:08
focus on I have two mid to longer distance runs and two
10:10
shorter faster runs. So again, kind of focusing on
10:13
both of those things as we get closer to to the day of the
10:16
race. OK, well, that's Riley nice
10:17
training updates for this week. Again, if you have questions
10:20
about running, about fueling or fueling your runs, you can
10:23
always find Riley and I on Instagram and ask us those
10:25
questions. But we are super excited to
10:26
share with you this episode with Elizabeth, Scott from Running
10:29
Explained. Elizabeth, welcome to the
10:33
podcast. Thanks for having me excited to
10:35
be here We. Were so excited to have you here
10:37
today and talk a little bit about running.
10:39
Can you share a little bit about like your background and how you
10:41
got into running? Yeah, so I started running when
10:44
I was 29 and I had just quit drinking.
10:46
I have been sober ever since. So running and sobriety are
10:49
intertwined in my journey. But I quit drinking and as often
10:53
times we do when we quit a big addiction, I wanted to make some
10:56
other big lifestyle changes. And the big one I wanted to make
10:58
at at that time was I wanted to lose some weight.
11:00
Like I was not in great shape health wise in general.
11:04
So I signed up for a local 5K. The start line was literally
11:07
across the street from my apartment building and I
11:10
thought, well, like, I have to walk out my front door.
11:12
That's all I have to do. Like I won't, I won't weasel out
11:15
of it. It'll hold me to it.
11:16
And Long story short, I ran the five Ki ended up running a 10K
11:21
and then 1/2 marathon and a marathon in the first six months
11:25
of me starting running. And that really sparked my
11:29
journey into what I do today, which is as a running coach and
11:32
a running educator and a podcaster myself.
11:34
How has running changed for you since that first 5K?
11:38
Oh my God, it's changed so much and it it's going to continue to
11:42
change. One of the things I say about
11:43
life and running and is the only constant is change.
11:47
When I first started running, I used it purely as a weight loss
11:50
tool and a little bit of like a self flagellation.
11:52
Like if I just go out and kill myself every time I go for a run
11:56
I like I can barely breathe and walk by the end.
11:58
I've done a really a good job. And then I went into the like
12:01
kind of that curiosity phase of like, you don't know what you're
12:03
doing, you're just kind of doing things and it was all new and
12:06
exciting and I could go out into random Wednesday and like PR my
12:09
mile just cuz like I was just getting faster all the time.
12:12
And then you go through that kind of like, you know, the pink
12:14
cloud kind of bursts and you get into that with your first kind
12:17
of big obstacle. And so, yeah, I mean, I had a
12:20
lot of evolutions with running done very, you know, hard driven
12:24
super metric base, like all, you know, quantifying everything.
12:28
I've been really super focused on outcome goals, like got to
12:31
get that Boston qualifying time. And recently I've definitely
12:34
been in a phase of, hey, you know, this is this is really
12:37
something that I, I have to do this for me and for nobody else.
12:43
You know, especially I think when you're in a space where you
12:45
are more public facing, you get a little bit caught up and what
12:48
will people think of me if I don't do this or what I need to
12:51
do this. So people will be impressed in
12:53
really having that phase of running right now that I'm in
12:55
being like, I still have stuff I want to accomplish, but I really
12:58
want to do it in a way that feels very personally
13:00
fulfilling. And it's because it's driven by
13:02
what I want to do and what feels good for me on the timeline that
13:05
I want to do it kind of devoid of external pressure
13:08
expectation. That's really interesting that
13:10
you say that because Jenna and myself, we're both training for
13:13
races right now. I feel like there's always this
13:15
kind of like deep in you competitor that kind of comes
13:19
out or you know, you're like, oh, anybody can look at my time
13:21
on the Internet and all this stuff.
13:22
But it's very like refreshing to hear that you're doing it for
13:25
yourself and you're doing it as a way that you love it.
13:28
Even as a running coach, right? You're you have goals, but we
13:31
don't have to rush to meet those goals.
13:32
And it's tough too. You know, this is I am really
13:34
trying to practice what I preach.
13:35
And that like, it is your journey.
13:37
You have to do it for you. It has to be intrinsically
13:39
motivated. You know, these things where we
13:41
have to at the end of the day, like these are the bodies that
13:43
we get. These are the minds that we
13:45
have. This is who we're going to be
13:46
for the rest of our lives. Like you're not going to become
13:48
somebody else, you know? And you, you have to figure out
13:52
what's really important to you and how to treat your body and
13:56
mind with respect while you are trying to do those things.
13:59
That has definitely been a huge shift for me.
14:01
So I'm nine months postpartum and I have my first race being
14:04
postpartum. And it's been very, I guess,
14:07
humbling and a little bit of a struggle from a mindset
14:09
perspective. Because I feel like every time I
14:12
run a race, I want a PR in that race and to understand that this
14:16
is not the race that I'm going to be PR ING in.
14:18
This was the race to get me, you know, back into a sport that I
14:21
love and now this is something that I can do with my daughter
14:23
because I do all my runs with her in the stroller.
14:25
So this has been definitely like a little bit of that adjustment
14:28
period. Little bit, that's a huge
14:30
adjustment. That's a big evolution in your
14:32
relationship with running. I was really sad because I was
14:35
not actually able to run because I had a lot of pelvic pain
14:38
throughout most of my pregnancy. So that first mile back was
14:41
definitely really humbling. But it's just been so much fun
14:44
to be able to get back out there.
14:45
And then because I can take my daughter along, I can, you know,
14:48
share something that I enjoy with her as well.
14:49
Well, congratulations. Thank.
14:51
You, I'm going to assume that a lot of the runners that you work
14:53
with try to navigate or have to navigate similar types of
14:56
situations like Riley is going through.
14:58
How do you help them work through that?
14:59
Yeah, this is really common. I mean, I do, you know, work
15:02
with runners of all ages, you know, all genders, all
15:05
identities, all types of goals. But because I think of I am a
15:08
woman and my branding and the way that I talk about things, I
15:12
do tend to, I think work and attract with more women, You
15:15
know, people identify as women. And so, yeah, there are a lot of
15:18
the people I work with who are, whether or not it's postpartum,
15:21
but these kind of shifts that we go through in our lives as
15:23
women, I think that are slightly different.
15:25
And it's a hugely important part of what I do in helping people.
15:30
It's not to say that you can't have really high expectations of
15:33
yourself and you can't have really big goals that you want
15:36
to chase, but there's a way to do it.
15:37
I see people get mired in this like, weird, festering pit of
15:42
doubt and like, shame and like, I'm comparing myself to all
15:45
these other people and why not me and why can't I?
15:48
And it's not fair. And if I just work really,
15:50
really, really hard and lose a ton of weight and go to the gym
15:52
every day, you know, I'm trying to get people to kind of step
15:55
back and take the big view and really understand that even when
16:00
we are chasing really big goals, it is about the entirety of the
16:05
journey. That's where you have to spend
16:06
all your time, right? The outcome goal, like the race
16:08
is one day. It's not even a, for most
16:09
people, that's for ultra marathon, there's only a day,
16:11
it's a couple hours for short races, it's, you know, 20-30
16:14
minutes. The way that you are navigating
16:16
through that training journey, you know, if you're, if it
16:19
sucks, like if you're beating yourself up every day, if you're
16:21
saying like, I suck, this sucks, why am I not as fast as I was
16:24
anymore? That's not fun for anybody.
16:26
So a really big part of what I do is help people understand,
16:29
like put things in perspective, help them understand objectively
16:32
what's going on in their training and how it relates to
16:35
what's going on in their lives because we are so bad at
16:37
objectively understanding what we are going through.
16:40
And then really helping them build the confidence so that
16:42
they can see the winds when they happen, that they can give
16:45
themselves grace when it's a bad day, that they can really make
16:49
this into something that is a positive rather than something
16:52
where I think a lot of especially, you know, women with
16:55
weight loss and body image, we just spend all this time beating
16:58
ourselves up. And I really, really, really
17:00
want to help people get away from that.
17:02
Comparison can be so hard for people to navigate.
17:05
I think Riley and I see that a lot in the world of nutrition is
17:07
that we're constantly kind of looking at our our teammates or
17:11
competitors and we're putting a lot of pressure from a
17:13
comparison standpoint on there. And I think a lot kind of rings
17:16
true with running as well. Oh, hugely.
17:18
And I think it's even harder or more prescient with running
17:21
because it is so metric driven. Like I can look at my time and I
17:25
can look at your time and I can literally compare those two
17:28
quantifiable numbers and then make judgments.
17:31
And if there's nothing wrong with comparison, I was just, I
17:33
gave a presentation on comparison, the comparison trap
17:35
recently. We as human beings, comparison
17:38
is built into who we are. It's how we survive, right?
17:42
Comparing ourselves to other people so we can fit in with the
17:45
in Group and survive, that's really important for humans.
17:49
Like as a species, if we are outside the group, we're going
17:52
to die. That's a very bad place to be.
17:54
So comparing ourselves to other people so we can like fit in and
17:57
see how we fit in, that's really important to us from an
17:59
evolutionary standpoint. But where it becomes a little
18:02
weird is when we are doing that comparison based on like envy or
18:06
jealousy or shame or fear, all these things.
18:08
And that's really the comparison that, you know, there's nothing
18:11
wrong with comparing yourself to somebody else, but if you're
18:13
comparing yourself to somebody else in a way that you are then
18:16
shaming yourself for it, that's really what we're trying to
18:18
avoid. Riley and I see a lot of this
18:20
comparison, especially from like a time and metric standpoint on
18:23
a lot of like Facebook groups and things like that that we're
18:25
a part of in the running community.
18:27
A lot of people like to share their times.
18:29
We'd love to chat with you a little bit about some of those
18:31
other kind of common topics that are coming up in these Facebook
18:34
groups, and one of them is the idea of like training easy.
18:37
Can you talk about what that means from a running perspective
18:39
and if that is something that's important for runners?
18:41
The reason I do what I do today is because of this thing called
18:45
easy running. A very common thing that I went
18:48
through that a lot of runners go through was when I first started
18:50
running, I just went out and because I had like 0 fitness at
18:54
all, I'd been sedentary for years.
18:56
Every single run felt really, really hard, whether it was 5
19:00
minutes or 25 minutes. If I was running, I was at like
19:03
a 10 out of 10 effort. Even as I gained fitness and I
19:06
had some runs that became less hard, I still had this kind of
19:10
idea in my mind that running should feel hard, that I should
19:12
always try to be as fast as I can on every single run.
19:15
Inevitably, as it does, even though I gained some other tools
19:18
and skills along the way, it did lead to burnout.
19:19
And this is where I see a lot of people's really struggle is that
19:22
kind of, you know, going moderate or hard on every single
19:24
run, trying to beat your like PR every single weekend, you're
19:27
going to burnout. And so when I I had this period
19:30
of burnout, about 18 months after I started running, I
19:32
picked up Matt Fitzgerald's book 8020 Running, which is at this
19:35
point, I think a classic in the endurance running space.
19:38
And I learned about this thing called easy running.
19:40
And it literally changed all the things that I think about about
19:44
running, open my eyes to this whole new world of exercise
19:46
Physiology. And it really started me off on
19:47
the path today that I am on because it is such a
19:50
foundational fundamental concept for how we can become the best
19:55
runners, whatever that means to you.
19:57
We can be and yet so many people in the recreational running
20:00
space either don't know about it or don't care or like think that
20:05
it's BS. And so helping people understand
20:08
the importance of easy running and having it help them change
20:12
their entire running trajectory is basically what I do.
20:15
Easy running is the foundation of your training as an endurance
20:18
runner. Easy running, it's a bit of a
20:20
misnomer because like I said, running can feel hard even when
20:24
you are in this quote UN quote easy effort zone.
20:26
So I really like to say it's the lowest intensity.
20:29
Of your running intensities. From a physiological standpoint,
20:32
easy effort running is when you are running in the intensity
20:36
zone below your aerobic threshold.
20:38
If we can get into charts and graphs, but it is also a place
20:41
where we say it's conversational ability.
20:43
You could run for a long, long time.
20:45
This is the zone that allows you to improve your aerobic
20:48
capacity, which is your endurance.
20:50
You can go longer, you can go farther.
20:53
It improves your ability to do all these things like, you know,
20:56
preferentially burn large quantities of fat and
20:59
carbohydrate for fuel. It allows you to be really
21:01
efficient from a running economy standpoint in getting faster
21:04
while burning the same amount of energy.
21:06
Because if we just think of ourselves as cars, which we're
21:08
not, what we're trying to do is get the most miles per gallon
21:12
that we can out of what we have available.
21:14
It also allows you to run more as an increase your running
21:18
volume, not just from day-to-day, but like in your
21:21
week, in your month, in your year without hitting that
21:24
burnout injury. Oh my God, I'm just so sick of
21:27
this. It feels so hard all the time.
21:28
I'm going to quit things. So yeah, easy running is really
21:30
important. I work with thousands of runners
21:32
at this point where once I just convince them to slow down on
21:34
their easy runs, it's like everything else falls into
21:37
place. That's not the only thing, like
21:39
there are other things we all need to do as runners, but for a
21:41
lot of people that missing pieces, you just need to slow
21:44
down on your easy runs. This is.
21:46
Such a interesting topic, at least for me personally, because
21:49
in my previous runs, I guess my previous races 7-8 years ago, I
21:53
had just retired from college sports and I did not practice
21:56
this idea of training easy at all.
21:57
I was convinced that every single run had to be a top pace.
22:01
I was miserable. I was so burned out from running
22:04
and I was using it for disorder behaviors and I've actually in
22:08
this upcoming race, I have been doing a lot more of the training
22:10
easy work and that mindset and it has honestly like just just
22:15
changed the game. And you enjoy it now more.
22:18
That's the other thing I hear too, is not only, you know,
22:20
everything feels better. I can perform better on my
22:23
workouts. I'm running faster in my races,
22:25
but I'm enjoying it rather than dreading it or like getting
22:28
halfway through and just being like, oh, this is so hard.
22:30
I want to turn around. You're like, you can go out and
22:32
enjoy just kind of bopping along on your easy runs.
22:35
And it's fun. It's fun again.
22:37
It is funny again and I just always joke because my previous
22:40
races I remember running the race and being so happy that
22:44
after 13.1, so after that half marathon, I didn't have to keep
22:47
going or I didn't have to run the race again.
22:50
But now I'm like super excited for my race.
22:52
I have another one planned in in the spring just because it's
22:55
such a more enjoyable experience now, but.
22:57
Like you said, I think probably one of the reasons you brought
22:59
that question up is that there's a lot of weird.
23:01
I always go ahead and say pace shaming around what people
23:04
think. People think you should or
23:07
should not be running and that slower is bad and if you're
23:10
walking it doesn't count. And all this stuff which we know
23:13
is just, again, I'm going to use the word BS.
23:16
And I think you all know what I mean by that.
23:17
And it's really this way. I talk about the shame and the
23:19
beating yourself up. If you have somebody, if you're
23:21
asking a question in good faith in a Facebook group and some
23:24
rando and the Internet then comes and like beats you up for
23:26
the pace you're running. How is that helpful for you and
23:29
what qualifications do they have?
23:31
You don't know Probably none. So yeah, there's a lot of
23:34
misinformation, a lot of weird stuff up Brown the concept of
23:38
easy running, the topic of easy running.
23:39
But I have been heartened by the recent years, the fact that
23:43
we're talking more about the importance of running easy under
23:45
easy days in like mainstream running media.
23:48
Easy running is going to be different for everyone.
23:51
So when someone does share in those Facebook groups what
23:54
they're easy running time is or what that looks like for them, I
23:56
think that that's when we see a lot of people that come and
23:59
share what they think that should be.
24:01
But it does change from person to person, just like nutrition
24:04
does change from person to person.
24:06
It does and it will change from day to today, even for the
24:09
individual. Just like you know that your
24:10
needs change from day-to-day. From a nutrition standpoint.
24:13
I could go out today. I ran 4 miles this morning in my
24:16
easy effort zone. I could run 4 miles tomorrow in
24:19
my easy effort zone. And it's possible that those two
24:21
runs in the same intensity zone could be different paces based
24:25
on a variety of factors. Fatigue, weather, where I'm in
24:28
my menstrual cycle, if I'm dehydrated, if I'm fueled or
24:31
under fueled, if I have a ton of life stress going on, if I slept
24:33
poorly last night. Like there are so many factors
24:36
that influence what are pace, not just in our easy zone, but
24:39
like our other paces too can be from day-to-day that This is
24:42
why, again, zooming out, not putting any specific emphasis on
24:46
anyone run as the how am I doing, right?
24:50
But taking your training in the totality of what's happening,
24:52
the trend lines of where you're going, that's what's the most
24:55
important thing. And I like to say you don't have
24:56
an easy effort pace. You don't, I don't like to say
24:58
it it, it's true. You do not have an easy effort
25:00
pace. You have an easy effort zone
25:02
that contains a range of paces. And everybody's range is
25:07
different, right? So the only thing that we really
25:09
need to focus on as a runner is what your range is and not what
25:12
anybody else's is. There's so many parallels here
25:15
with nutrition because everybody's going to be so
25:17
individualized in their nutrition approach.
25:19
And also to just kind of like what you mentioned, we're
25:22
focused so tightly on singular runs.
25:26
Just like in nutrition, a lot of people are focused singularly on
25:29
like certain meals or certain time periods or a calorie amount
25:32
for the day or for a certain meal.
25:34
But what you're doing on a trend perspective or what you're doing
25:37
overall has such more of an impact than just focusing on one
25:41
single piece of this entire puzzle.
25:43
And it's interesting to me that people can understand that
25:45
concept in one area and not kind of see it in another area.
25:49
And this example is exactly right.
25:51
They can understand that with running, OK, I have this big
25:54
goal takes a while for fitness to really change.
25:57
I got to be consistent for not just three months or four
26:00
months, but like I for the whole year, for multiple years, you
26:03
know, to work at it. It's just the sum of all of its
26:06
parts in the long, long, long, long term.
26:08
Except when it comes to nutrition, you know.
26:10
But I ate up my vegetables this week.
26:11
Why have I not seen all the changes that I expected to see
26:14
within 5 days? And I've been guilty of this
26:16
too, right? I know all the things.
26:18
All the things that take so long in your body to actually occur
26:23
when we start making those changes on like a biochemical
26:25
level, all the way up to when you actually see it manifest in
26:29
your like what you can do and how fast you can run all these
26:31
things again. It's like, but I ate my apple
26:33
yesterday, why am I not today? Why don't I feel different?
26:35
We're all ready for those fast changes, and we wish that they
26:38
could happen faster. It's hard though, you know, the
26:41
way that we're fed these stories, especially in American
26:43
media. I'm not quite sure how it is in
26:45
other parts of the world that so often the things that are
26:48
featured like headlines, these people are so impressive, these
26:51
heroes. It's these from the most part,
26:53
these incredible seems like overnight quote UN quote success
26:56
stories, right. I remember when Kira d'amato,
26:58
who is now obviously was the former American women's record
27:01
holder in the marathon when she came back to running.
27:04
She ran in college, took some time off and then she came back
27:06
to running and then she like a 345 marathon and then she like
27:10
ran a sub three marathon. I don't know, like six months
27:12
later. But like nobody focused on the
27:14
fact that she had been AD 1 college runner.
27:17
She like could have gone pro and that she was now coming back to
27:20
the sport. All people saw is that this
27:23
woman in her 30s ran a 343 marathon and now she ran the
27:26
Olympic standard. And it's like, OK, you're not
27:28
seeing the whole picture. But what then I, the layperson
27:32
might expect is like, why can't I do that?
27:35
And like that's, you're totally missing the point here.
27:39
That was such a good. Example there's just so much of
27:42
that in nutrition too. I think it's hard because with
27:45
the media, we get shown the outliers, we get shown these
27:48
very specific examples of these overnight success stories and
27:53
some. People.
27:54
You know what? Might be overnight successes,
27:56
obviously in the situation she's not, but there are, you know,
27:59
very few individuals who might have that success, but the
28:02
majority of individuals are not. You even think about like a big
28:06
topic right now is like the boss.
28:08
So qualifying times changed and you think about, OK, who is
28:12
qualifying for Boston and you think that you have to run this
28:15
very, I mean, obviously it's a very competitive time, but most
28:18
of the individuals who are qualifying for Boston are
28:20
training for years and they're also not pro athletes.
28:23
But we're never really focused, I feel like, on the majority
28:25
where we just focus on these like little specific stories out
28:28
there that set unrealistic expectations.
28:31
Something I've found myself talking a lot with my clients
28:34
about recently is this concept of, hey, look, some people,
28:38
you're just born on a different level, right?
28:39
Doesn't mean that your work and your journey is any less valid
28:44
or validating for who you are. But like, yes, some people are
28:48
just born genetically a little bit better at something than
28:51
other people are. You know, there are people in
28:54
this world who can roll out of bed and run a Boston qualifying
28:58
time off four months training where other people will have to
29:01
chip away at that for 10:15, maybe 20 years and like age up a
29:05
bunch of categories and finally get in.
29:06
It goes back, I think to that an inherent like life kind of isn't
29:10
fair, but it's not. But then when you start
29:12
comparing yourself and your journey to that person, how is
29:16
that helpful for you? And again, that comparison, you
29:18
could admire somebody who can do that and say, I really wish I
29:21
had their genetics because that would be awesome, right?
29:25
But you don't just like, I'm not 6 feet tall.
29:27
You know, like there are all these things that we just,
29:29
we're, we're born with what we got and we have to become the
29:32
best that we can be with who we are.
29:33
And, and some people are just born on different levels.
29:36
And that's true with all things. And I know obviously in the
29:39
nutrition space, it's a lot of, you know, so much of what you
29:41
look like is genetically determined, right?
29:44
You three of us could eat the exact same thing for a year and
29:47
we would still all look very different.
29:50
And it's the same thing with running.
29:52
So I mean, I think there is an element of acceptance to that
29:56
and kind of be like, you have to be OK with that on some level.
29:59
But yeah, that's something I've been talking a lot with my
30:00
clients about recently. All of us have.
30:02
Our lived experiences and we're the accumulation of those lived
30:05
experiences. But on top of that too, we do
30:07
have that genetic factor. And I love that you mentioned
30:09
that we could all be eating and training the exact same and at
30:13
the end of a year's time, we would all still be so different.
30:16
And that's why running and nutrition are so incredibly
30:19
individualized to the person because we are all so, so very
30:23
different. Are there any other big like
30:25
myths in the running world that you would love to kind of like
30:28
eliminate or bust or just like take out for the rest of time?
30:31
I think that this is probably something that the three of us
30:33
will have a fun time discussing, that training for a marathon is
30:36
a great way to lose weight, that training for any race is a great
30:38
way to lose weight. And I've been guilty of that.
30:40
You know, in the past, I didn't run a marathon because I wanted
30:42
to lose weight, but I'd start running because I wanted to lose
30:45
weight. And I know a lot of people, and
30:47
this is for them and to understand if this is something
30:49
that's beneficial for them. Do you use exercise as a body
30:53
composition management tool? Not saying that's a bad thing,
30:56
but this idea that running a lot is really helpful for you to
31:01
lose body mass. And by, you know, lose weight.
31:04
By that we mean body fat. That's really dangerous.
31:07
And I think, again, we glorify these people who go to extremes,
31:09
the people who lost 100 lbs in random marathon.
31:12
That is incredible, right? But like, that's probably not
31:14
applicable to most people or something that most people
31:18
should engage in. So yeah, this idea that running
31:20
long distances is a really great way to lose a ton of weight.
31:23
I mean, you see them because they come to you, but their
31:25
hormones totally messed up and a bunch of nutrient deficiencies
31:28
and their, you know, bones are breaking and their hair is
31:30
falling out. And I get to pick them up
31:32
afterwards and say, cool, so now we're going to totally revamp
31:34
your training and figure out a way to do this in a healthy way.
31:36
So I would love to see that go away, but I don't think it will
31:39
be because of our continued societal obsession with the way
31:42
that our bodies should and shouldn't look.
31:44
This is so challenging. We talked to so many different
31:46
athletes about this because there's such an emphasis on a
31:50
certain look when it comes to running.
31:52
And people assume that, hey, if I start training for a marathon
31:55
or start training for half marathon or ultra, I'm going to
31:58
assume this look. And that's what they're actually
32:00
trying to accomplish when they're starting running.
32:02
They're not running for physical health, their performance,
32:05
they're starting to achieve a certain look that is, I'd say,
32:08
prioritized by society or, you know, encouraged by society.
32:12
And so I think there's a lot of confusion and frustration
32:15
because the outcome is not what they assumed that they would
32:17
achieve. Yeah, that's huge.
32:19
There is a a woman I talked to a couple years ago in a coaching
32:22
consult and we're talking, you know, she came to me, she had
32:25
some questions and now she's trying to go under 30 minutes in
32:28
the 5K, which is a great goal. She said to me, you know,
32:31
something I really struggle with is that everybody tells me that
32:33
I look like a runner. They tell me that based on how I
32:35
look, they would expect me to be faster.
32:37
And that is a flip side of what a lot of people in larger bodies
32:41
deal with when they say, oh, based on what you look, I would
32:43
expect you to be slower. And so, you know, I think those
32:45
two things together, it's like you can't win, right?
32:50
And it highlights the fact that you can't tell what somebody's
32:53
ability is simply based on what they look like.
32:55
You know, this idea that we would expect thinner people with
32:58
lower body fat to be really, really fast runners.
33:01
That's not the case. Objectively, if that were true,
33:03
if you were thin, you would be fast.
33:05
Like that's you could just take a thin person off the street,
33:07
pop them into a race and they would be super fast.
33:09
Like, you know, not literally, but like, that's how absurd that
33:12
is to think that way. But yet we are totally fine
33:14
judging people for their ability based on what their body shape
33:17
or size is. And I think the other thing too,
33:19
is that when you go to most big races or any race these days,
33:24
you see an incredible diversity in body shape, size in age.
33:29
This idea that everybody quote UN quote, looks like a runner
33:33
except for me, all you have to do is go to a race to see that
33:36
that is not true, that most runners just look like people
33:40
and people look very, very different in different ways.
33:43
I was. Just talking with one of my
33:45
clients about this the other day because it was her first race
33:49
and he was chatting with her partner about, you know, she
33:52
felt really self-conscious because she didn't look like a
33:55
runner and her partner was like, you're about to run 1/2 marathon
33:58
like you. Are.
33:59
A runner, like, what does a runner look like?
34:01
What are we talking about here? So that was, I think a very
34:03
humbling experience for her because especially when she got
34:05
to her race, she was in the beginning feeling very
34:07
self-conscious and then she got there and afterwards she was
34:10
talking about how there was just so many different types of
34:12
individuals there. And it was really refreshing.
34:14
And I think that's something that we've seen a lot more in
34:17
the running community lately as well, too.
34:18
Last big running question that we have for you, one of the
34:21
things that Riley and I consistently see is again, this
34:24
kind of idea of like weight loss is what is going to lead to an
34:27
improvement in time. And with the Boston qualifying
34:30
times changing, we saw a lot of rhetoric and conversations
34:33
around, well, I guess I'm going to need to lose 10 lbs in order
34:36
to qualify and all those sorts of things.
34:38
So what tips do you have for runners who are hoping to make a
34:42
Boston qualifying timer or any other race for time is a factor
34:46
there that maybe isn't that thought that we need to lose
34:49
weight in order to drop time? Yeah, that's a great question.
34:52
The question I would ask somebody who has that thought,
34:55
whether it is fleeting, what is it that you think that losing?
34:59
It's usually like 5 or 10 lbs, right?
35:00
What do you think that losing that weight specifically would
35:04
do for you? That being really dedicated and
35:07
consistent in your training, doing your strength training,
35:10
doing all your runs as they should be done, getting your
35:12
sleep, eating your food, feeling your runs, staying hydrated,
35:15
managing life stress. What is it you think that losing
35:18
a couple pounds would do for you that those other things can't do
35:22
for you if you just do those things consistently in the long
35:25
term? It's so hard because there's
35:26
always the Yeah, but if you weigh less, it takes less energy
35:30
to move you forward. We are not machines.
35:32
That is a such an overly simple holistic as to be useless in its
35:36
understanding of how the human body works.
35:38
I would ask yourself, if you looked exactly like you do today
35:43
and you were able to run those big goal times that you want to
35:46
run, would you still want to lose weight?
35:48
And if the answer is yes, then it's not about running at all.
35:52
This is something completely different.
35:54
It's not about the running. It's about something else that
35:57
is driving you to want to lose weight.
35:58
And it's not to say that we can't desire body composition
36:01
changes. There's something wrong with
36:02
wanting to pursue that, but ask yourself, is it really about my
36:06
performance or is this coming from somewhere else?
36:09
I want that all on a T-shirt. I want that entire answer on a
36:12
T-shirt that I can wear all the time.
36:14
Give me a lot of text. It was all really good
36:16
information because you are exactly right on that.
36:19
I agree with you so much. It's tricky though.
36:22
And again, going back to that, the only constant is change is
36:24
that especially as we move through our lives as people, our
36:27
bodies are going to change just because they are supposed to.
36:31
Like not even through puberty and through, you know,
36:33
childbirth and through all these things, but like your body is
36:36
just, they do change and that's OK.
36:37
And so being OK with that, there's a lot to unpack when it
36:41
comes to that. But anybody who's, you know, has
36:42
that thought pop into their head, Be like, Oh my gosh, only
36:45
I lost 5, 10 lbs. I totally make that time or in
36:48
addition to all the training I'm doing it.
36:49
Ask yourself, is it really about the times or is it really about
36:51
just you wanting to lose weight? Before we end today's podcast,
36:54
we have a couple quick questions for you.
36:57
The first one is because this is the Eat More Carbs podcast.
37:00
We have to know what your favorite carbohydrate is.
37:02
Oh, you're making me choose one. I think hands down one of my all
37:06
time favorite carbs is white rice.
37:07
Yeah, in all its variations. And you never get it really
37:10
specific. It's like sticky rice that you
37:12
get at a Thai restaurant. So good, yeah.
37:15
What's your favorite pre run fuel?
37:17
Pop Tarts. Oh heck yeah.
37:18
I love it. You can scale them.
37:19
OK, so I'm actually on a quest to like try a whole bunch of
37:22
flavors. For years I've been a brown
37:25
sugar cinnamon pop tart girl. And I will preface this by
37:27
saying actually a huge part of my journey is that when I
37:30
started running along with the whole weight loss thing, I dove
37:32
deep into that fat adapted keto stuff.
37:36
And don't do it. It won't make you faster.
37:39
It will mess up your health. I promise you.
37:41
It's not going to make you a better runner or a healthier
37:43
human being. So I'm on this quest to try a
37:46
bunch of pop tarts. So this morning I had a Boston
37:49
Cream Pie pop tart before my run.
37:51
How was it? It was pretty good.
37:53
I think it's been better if I toasted it.
37:56
I also have pumpkin pie and I also have banana bread in the
38:00
cupboard right now. Banana bread is definitely
38:02
better toasted. Don't eat it not toasted.
38:05
Elizabeth, what is your favorite?
38:06
Poster run fuel. It depends on how hard the run
38:10
was. I can never go wrong with a
38:12
smoothie because it's just super easy to get in.
38:15
For some reason in sandwiches, I like big sandwiches.
38:18
Like after long runs, it's just so satisfying to have a big
38:21
sandwich. This is.
38:23
One of the hardest questions that we ask on the podcast, it
38:25
is not anything related to nutrition, but we have to hear
38:29
what your favorite running shoe is.
38:31
I am in talking about evolution. I'm on the quest for a new
38:36
rotation. For years I was a Saucony ride,
38:40
ride or die person except for some races.
38:43
Like I wore the Saucony rides for everything.
38:46
Workhorse of a shoe but multiple pairs always stocked up when
38:49
they were on sale. And then they changed it.
38:51
I mean they change shoes every year but they changed it to a
38:53
point where I was like this isn't the shoe I fell in love
38:55
with. We're so different now.
38:56
I am currently running in the ASICS Blast 3, which is a good
39:00
decent daily trainer. I do have a fondness for nylon
39:04
plated shoes. I mean, I'll race in carbon
39:06
plate shoes too, but nylon plated shoes I like because they
39:08
they have some of the benefits of carbon plate shoe, but
39:10
they're not like all in like carbon plate shoes can just be a
39:12
lot to handle sometimes. So I like the it's the ASICS
39:16
Meta sky. It's their nylon plated shoe.
39:19
I can't remember what. Yeah, I think that's it.
39:20
And then of course, the Saucony Speeds, speed threes I think are
39:25
the best ones I've ever done, but speed fours aren't too
39:27
shabby. Also in Mizuno Wave, something I
39:30
used to know, like all the names of the shoes and I just go in
39:32
and buy them. Like I want that one and that
39:34
one and that one, and I'll just see how they work.
39:35
So yeah, that's currently what I'm, you know, trialing in my
39:38
life. Elizabeth, thank you so much for
39:41
being on this episode. It's been so fun to chat with
39:42
you about running and all of the myths that come along with it.
39:45
For anyone listening who wants to follow you, ask you
39:48
questions, work with you, what is the best way for people to
39:51
do? That well, thank you for having
39:52
me. This was a ton of fun could talk
39:54
about pop carts and running all day long yes.
39:55
So you can find me on Instagram at running Explain to my website
39:59
runningexplain.com and I do have a podcast, the running explain
40:02
podcast. You're sensing the theme here
40:04
Yes, which is currently on hiatus because I did just move,
40:07
but I am working on getting new episodes out.
40:09
So yeah, I'm mostly hanging on Instagram, but my website has
40:12
all the information you could need about what we offer.
40:14
Training plans, coaching, education, all the good stuff.
40:18
We're going to leave all of Elizabeth's information in the
40:21
podcast show notes. That way you can easily reach
40:22
out and find her. If you have questions for Riley
40:24
and I, you can find us on Instagram.
40:26
You can find Riley at easy dot sports dot nutrition and you can
40:29
find me at Jenna dot Fisher dot nutrition.
40:31
Thank you so much for listening. Please make sure you rate,
40:33
subscribe and review. And as always, remember to eat
40:35
more carbs.