Latest / Ridiculous History / That Time Japan Absolutely Rinsed Russia, Part Two: The Togo Turn

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That Time Japan Absolutely Rinsed Russia, Part Two: The Togo Turn · Ridiculous History

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Welcome back to
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Speaker 1: the show, Fellow ridiculous Historians, Let's hear it for the
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Speaker 1: TZAR Ridiculous History podcasting super producer mister Max Williams hizzaar bizarre.
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Speaker 2: That's no Brown, Ben, you're Ben Ben. B Where did
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Speaker 2: the term when when they talk about a something zar, right, Yeah,
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Speaker 2: like a border zar or a drug zar or whatever.
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Speaker 2: Where does that is that the same word or is
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Speaker 2: it a different word entirely?
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Speaker 1: It's spelled c z a r when we're talking about
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Speaker 1: out the US version. When we're talking about the Russian version,
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Speaker 1: Russian royalty, it's zar ts ar yeah, yeah, And.
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Speaker 2: They are the same in spirit. It's the idea of
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Speaker 2: being like overseeing something. It's just I just wonder what
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Speaker 2: the history of that term being used for political posts
1:19
Speaker 2: came from. And also it seems like kind of like
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Speaker 2: a symbolic position in many ways, Like the idea of
1:25
Speaker 2: being a borders are and getting blamed for problems with
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Speaker 2: the border almost seems like a little bit cruel, Like
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Speaker 2: is it really like what is that person even responsible for?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's usually one yeah, taking ownership and therefore responsibility
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Speaker 1: over a specific kind of policy or policy area edimologically
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Speaker 1: and yes, Max you know this too. Max hit us
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Speaker 1: up on the chat. Uh. Edamologically, it comes from Julius Caesar.
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Speaker 1: That's where sar comes from.
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Speaker 2: Uh, like calling pizza za. You know.
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Speaker 1: There it is. It's funny in the US up until
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Speaker 1: this year, actually czar was an informal term. Uh. The
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Speaker 1: first person in a US government office with a formal
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Speaker 1: title Czar didn't come about until this year. All the
2:15
Speaker 1: other times before it was it was like it might
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Speaker 1: as well been a corporate buzzword.
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Speaker 2: Almost seems sort of ceremonial in so many ways. So
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Speaker 2: like so essentially the current administration is formalizing that term.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the current administration is formalizing it. It dates
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Speaker 1: back to, uh, I want to say, the days of
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Speaker 1: Franklin Roosevelt. Think of it like a governmental nickname, right, Uh.
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Speaker 2: It makes sense. Sorry for that aside. It was just
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Speaker 2: something I wanted to sort out for my own edification.
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Speaker 2: Here we're talking about different kind of zar. Bizarre indeed, we're.
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Speaker 1: Cizar for that one. But no valuable information And it's
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Speaker 1: something that it's one of those questions that I think
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Speaker 1: a lot of us in the US are kind of
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Speaker 1: afraid to ask. And the last point I want to
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Speaker 1: make there is whatever I have heard the term czar
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Speaker 1: applied in the nomenclature of US government. I always think, oh,
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Speaker 1: you mean.
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Speaker 2: Scapegoat, You mean this guy I was getting it, Yes, yes.
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Speaker 1: Trouble yes, as as you said, well, speaking of getting
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Speaker 1: in trouble, this is part two of the time that
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Speaker 1: Japan absolutely walloped or as our pal doctor Ze says, rinsed.
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Speaker 2: The left as yes.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Previously on Ridiculous History, we explored what led up
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Speaker 1: to the Russo Japanese War and how Japan outmaneuvered Russia
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Speaker 1: as both empires raced to control the region known as Manchuria,
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Speaker 1: and we we ended part one on a upnoe for
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Speaker 1: Japan and a very down note for Russia.
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Speaker 2: That's right, and that conflict set the stage for the
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Speaker 2: aforementioned rinsing.
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Speaker 1: We know that a lot of the battle hinged on
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Speaker 1: an area called Port Arthur. At the time when we
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Speaker 1: left you with hopefully still a dope beat to step two,
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Speaker 1: the Japanese Empire had encircled Port Arthur via land and
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Speaker 1: via sea. And now we return to our tail with
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Speaker 1: Port Arthur well in hand, the Japanese Empire can now
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Speaker 1: put even more energy toward conquering Manchuria. However, no matter
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Speaker 1: where you're fighting, no matter what your theater of conflict is,
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Speaker 1: in this wide world, you will all always have a
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Speaker 1: second potential enemy on the field, and that enemy is
5:06
Speaker 1: the weather. The winter of nineteen oh five absolutely sucks
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Speaker 1: for everyone.
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Speaker 2: Man, the weather is the greatest villain of history in
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Speaker 2: many ways, We've got we've done so many stories about
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Speaker 2: the weather being an absolute pill and changing the course
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Speaker 2: of history.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it's it's like how the real villain of
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Speaker 1: adult life is scheduling, and everybody's fighting against that. So
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Speaker 1: the weather is incredibly harsh in winter of nineteen oh five,
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Speaker 1: which means, without any official agreement, both the Russian and
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Speaker 1: the Japanese sides of this conflict decide not to directly
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Speaker 1: fight each other. They're just going to try to stay
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Speaker 1: alive through winter. And then well, it's it's exactly like
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Speaker 1: calling a long time out in a.
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Speaker 2: Sports exactly that thing you do with the t I'm
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Speaker 2: doing it right, yes, yeah, podcast listeners.
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Speaker 1: And doing it well. And in Russian held territory there's
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Speaker 1: this massive repression of all the native people living in
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Speaker 1: uh in this area of Mantrea that they control, right,
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Speaker 1: that the Russians still control. So the Manchu population, the
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Speaker 1: Chinese population is looking around. They're saying, man, these Russian
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Speaker 1: guys are super harshing my vibe. I do not like
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Speaker 1: these people. They're violent, they're brutal. Maybe the Japanese Empire
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Speaker 1: isn't that bad, you know. So locals would go to
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Speaker 1: Japanese intelligence forces and they would say, Okay, we don't
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Speaker 1: agree with everything Japanese Empire, but we do agree on this.
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Speaker 1: The Russians are not cool. So here is where they're
7:02
Speaker 1: going to be positioned. Here's some information about their troop movements.
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Speaker 1: Help us out.
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Speaker 2: And there is this pervasive, pretty nasty strain of anti
7:14
Speaker 2: East Asian racism sentiment, whatever you want to call it.
7:19
Speaker 2: It was gross called collectively referred to as the Yellow Peril,
7:23
Speaker 2: which is awful, and gave onlookers collectively in the greater
7:29
Speaker 2: world something to sort of support Russia over since they
7:34
Speaker 2: were attempting to defeat what was seen as a part
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Speaker 2: of this you know, maligned community. Right.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea that was very common in European circles
7:50
Speaker 1: or Western circles at the time, it was a specific
7:54
Speaker 1: type of weaponized racism, and all racism can be weaponized, right,
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Speaker 1: And they said, the existence of any Asiatic community, any
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Speaker 1: East Asian nation, it fundamentally is an existential threat to
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Speaker 1: the West. They want to destroy us. Therefore, whatever we
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Speaker 1: do to them is not a war crime, it's not
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Speaker 1: an act of horror. It is a preemptive protective measure
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Speaker 1: for us, the whites of the West. And this is
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Speaker 1: I'm laughing because this is very dark stuff. This allowed
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Speaker 1: Russian soldiers, the psychological parkour, the rationalization, to commit so
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Speaker 1: many atrocities. Imagine a bad thing that a soldier could
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Speaker 1: do to a civilian, and Kassack Cossack cavalry divisions were
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Speaker 1: doing this. They would just rock up into a sleepy
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Speaker 1: Manchu village and they would kill as many people as
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Speaker 1: they can and burn as many buildings as they could reach.
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Speaker 1: So of course the local populations thought the Japanese were better.
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Speaker 2: Well, if I'm not mistaken, just in general, historically speaking,
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Speaker 2: the Cossacks are remembered kind of for their war criminess,
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Speaker 2: for their viciousness in the field of battle, right, yes, yeah.
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Speaker 1: And we don't have to get too into the weeds
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Speaker 1: on the different back and forth conflicts that Russian and
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Speaker 1: Japanese forces had, But we can tell you they began
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Speaker 1: when the weather lifted up, so around February of nineteen
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Speaker 1: oh five, heavy casualties on both sides. We're talking tens
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Speaker 1: of thousands, almost one hundred thousand people, and ultimately the
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Speaker 1: Japanese Empire is unable to consummate its conquest or to
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Speaker 1: fully complete the control of Manchuri. So they launch in
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Speaker 1: July an invasion of a place called Sakkalin Island, and
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Speaker 1: this is a victory for them. This is the end
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Speaker 1: of land operations during the war. The Russian army and
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Speaker 1: navy lost every significant battle, but the Japanese still had
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Speaker 1: to wait for an official decision on Russia's end. Was
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Speaker 1: from the Tzar, Yeah, from the Tsar Tsar Sar. Was
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Speaker 1: he going to surrender? What was Niki going to do?
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Speaker 1: We have to remember all this time, Niki has a well,
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Speaker 1: I's call him Nikki. Nikki has a Nikki two Nikki
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Speaker 1: two uh electric boogaloo, Russian boogaloo.
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Speaker 2: He has.
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Speaker 1: He has a h He still has that fleet right
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Speaker 1: that got cut off from the Suez Canal to go
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Speaker 1: around the Cape of Good Hope, fighting to get every
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Speaker 1: piece of coal they can. They're still sailing to the
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Speaker 1: Far East. They get there in May of nineteen o
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Speaker 1: five to reinforce Nikki's armies. Now at this point you
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Speaker 1: might say, reasonably, well, what about the Great trans Siberian Railway?
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Speaker 1: Why couldn't they just what it?
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Speaker 2: Then? What about it old?
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Speaker 1: Why couldn't they just ship soldiers by rail? Unfortunately there
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Speaker 1: were some hard limitations on how that railway could operate
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Speaker 1: at the time. Still, eventually that second fleet gets there,
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Speaker 1: the railway brings what it can. So it came to
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Speaker 1: pass that by spring of nineteen oh five, Imperial Russian
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Speaker 1: forces had the numbers, They had the numerical advantage over
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Speaker 1: Japanese forces in Manchuria.
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Speaker 2: But then.
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Speaker 1: There was the nineteen oh five revolution. How loyal was
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Speaker 1: the Russian army and how many members of the Russian
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Speaker 1: army were going? Man, is Niki cool? I don't know
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Speaker 1: if he's cool? Why do you send us all the
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Speaker 1: way out here to fight for a cause that doesn't
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Speaker 1: really affect us? You know what I mean? War? What
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Speaker 1: is it good for other than and electric bogl uh
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Speaker 1: So this descent is spreading through the Russian Army, and
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Speaker 1: Niki is waiting to see how the dice roll out.
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Speaker 1: When his second fleet tangles with the Japanese Navy. This
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Speaker 1: brings us to the Battle of Sushima. And I'm gonna
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Speaker 1: be honest. For a lot of us in the West, folks,
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Speaker 1: please don't judge us too harshly. A lot of us
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Speaker 1: only know about Tsushima as a as a place, as
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Speaker 1: a concept because of the ex the video game Ghost
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Speaker 1: of Sushima.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like the Wondering Samurai game, right.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's an awesome game if you like games, Yeah,
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Speaker 1: it's wonderful. It's one you can replay. The Battle of
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Speaker 1: Sushima is a very different thing, and it shows us.
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Speaker 1: As we get into it, we'll see that there's a
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Speaker 1: lot of strategy at play. We mentioned Admiral Togo in
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Speaker 1: part one. He is aware that this Baltic fleet is
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Speaker 1: coming because, as you so beautifully put it earlier, Nol,
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Speaker 1: the clock is ticking for that Baltic fleet, but the
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Speaker 1: clock's also ticking for Admiral Togo.
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Speaker 2: That's right. And Ben, I gotta admit here, completely come clean.
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Speaker 2: I didn't know that the Maru as a suffix existed
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Speaker 2: historically outside of the Star Trek universe. We've got a
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Speaker 2: couple of converted cruisers that were dispatched by Togo called
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Speaker 2: the Hong Kong Maru and the Nipon Mahru. And if
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Speaker 2: I'm not mistaken, Nipon just means Japan, right mm hmmm.
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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, you're correct.
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Speaker 2: And what does Maru mean in this concept? What's the
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Speaker 2: one for the Star Trek one that represents a conundrum.
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Speaker 1: Kobyashi Maru the unsolvable problem?
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Speaker 2: And is that a ship in Star Trek.
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Speaker 1: I have to defer to our friend Max there. I
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Speaker 1: just know what to give us the beg.
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Speaker 2: On that one, Max, the Kobe Mau.
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Speaker 3: I do not believe it is a ship or maybe
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Speaker 3: you know. I actually I don't, not that I can't
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Speaker 3: think of one by the name of that. But that
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Speaker 3: appears in Star Trek The Wrath of Khan, which is
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Speaker 3: the second movie. Is they're one of the most famous ones,
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Speaker 3: but uh, it is actually very central to the plots.
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Speaker 3: At the beginning of the movie. It's actually Christially who's
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Speaker 3: in a training set like training trying to do the thing.
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Speaker 3: The joke is there's only been one person who's ever.
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Speaker 2: Passed that test.
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Speaker 3: The Kobeesh Maru. It was Kirk and he cheated.
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Speaker 1: And that's Captain James T.
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Speaker 2: Kirk and Admiral James D.
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Speaker 3: Kirk actually and.
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Speaker 1: By that point, yes, but he's best known as Captain
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Speaker 1: in the original Star Trek series.
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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, it says it's a spacecraft. It says
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Speaker 2: here it is a fictional spacecraft in the Star Trek continuity.
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Speaker 3: So in the exercise, the Kobyashi Maru is a civilian
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Speaker 3: ship that is marooned on the wrong side of the
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Speaker 3: neutral zone with the Klingons. So, and they're being attacked
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Speaker 3: by the Klingons. So you either have to go into space,
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Speaker 3: go into the Klingon space and rescue the Kobyash Maru
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Speaker 3: staring your own ship, or abandon them. So the lose
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Speaker 3: louse situation.
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Speaker 1: Right, an unwinnable scenario. And let's get that instrumental max
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Speaker 1: with the facts on that one.
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Speaker 2: Oh we must. And let's also just say I think
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Speaker 2: we answered my question here. It would seem that that
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Speaker 2: is a reference to the way the Japanese named their
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Speaker 2: war vessels.
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Speaker 1: Yes, Maru means circle essentially, okay uh, And this is
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Speaker 1: so we have we've solved that when folks, we know
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Speaker 1: that Togo is figure, it's important to remember it, right.
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Speaker 1: He's aware of this ticking clock as well. He needs
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Speaker 1: to figure out where this Baltic fleet is at and
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Speaker 1: when they will arrive in the THEATA, which we cannot
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Speaker 1: pronounce any other way than THEATA. And so uh, he
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Speaker 1: sends he's got all these intel operations, all this spooky
16:47
Speaker 1: stuff going on as far as he can reach. And
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Speaker 1: he also dispatches two cruisers as you mentioned, uh, and
16:54
Speaker 1: they get all the way out to I want to say,
16:57
Speaker 1: the Indian Ocean, and there's another one that gets to
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Speaker 1: the Philippines. And then he sends even more cruisers patrolling
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Speaker 1: areas around Hong Kong, Indonesia, and Singapore from February to
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Speaker 1: April of five. And this is all to sort of
17:14
Speaker 1: build you know, the way we could say it. And
17:18
Speaker 1: Alex Tijuana Williams would agree with me. Here, if you've
17:21
Speaker 1: ever been camping and you want to set up some
17:25
Speaker 1: kind of security perimeter, you guys, remember the thing where
17:29
Speaker 1: you take like cans and string and sort of tie
17:34
Speaker 1: them around trees that encircle your campsite. Have you ever
17:37
Speaker 1: heard of that?
17:38
Speaker 3: No?
17:39
Speaker 2: Is this a way of defending yourself against like bears
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Speaker 2: or wildlife.
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Speaker 1: It lets you know when something is coming because the
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Speaker 1: cans will make a noise.
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Speaker 2: Of course, of course, of course, of course makes a
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Speaker 2: jingle jangle. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: So he's sort of doing a maritime version of that
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Speaker 1: on a much more expensive and dangerous scale. And one
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Speaker 1: of the patrol ships that were converted for the job,
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Speaker 1: A lot of these were merchant ships in peacetime. One
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Speaker 1: of the patrol ships south of the Korean Strait cites
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Speaker 1: the enemy on May twenty seventh, early in the morning
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Speaker 1: the wee hours. But they still have no information about
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Speaker 1: what the Baltic fleet is planning to do, where they're
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Speaker 1: going to go. And Togo is incredibly confused about this
18:26
Speaker 1: because bad information is still better than no information.
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Speaker 2: Uh.
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Speaker 1: And the Admiralty in Tokyo, the control ultimate controlling force
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Speaker 1: of the navy. They get a telegram that is supposedly
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Speaker 1: from Togo. But here's the thing, Admiral Togo never sent it.
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Speaker 1: And the telegram, yeah, a little bit of conspiracy's happening here.
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Speaker 2: Bad.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Well, well, as as you and I know,
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Speaker 1: the telegram says to leadership, the fleet is not going
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Speaker 1: to move unless the enemy is cited within a specific time,
19:08
Speaker 1: and Tokyo said, okay, this means that our guy, our boy,
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Speaker 1: Togo is going to move to the north, and he's
19:16
Speaker 1: going to wait for the enemy to come through the
19:18
Speaker 1: northern strait and then smack him. And they reply back
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Speaker 1: and they say, no, don't move north, just stay at Masampo,
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Speaker 1: which is your base for the battle. We all think
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Speaker 1: it's going to take place in Tsushima. I don't know.
19:33
Speaker 1: It seems like a lot of later historians and analysts
19:37
Speaker 1: are pretty sure that that was a misstep.
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Speaker 2: But who sent the telegram? That's the thing is.
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Speaker 1: It was it someone working for him and everybody was
19:48
Speaker 1: just nervous and in the fog of war and trying
19:50
Speaker 1: to move quickly. Was it an act a very clever
19:53
Speaker 1: act of espionage. Ah, The latter is more interesting, but
19:59
Speaker 1: the former is more plausible. Maybe it's true true.
20:03
Speaker 2: Togo, however, remained relatively calm in the face of this
20:09
Speaker 2: unfortunate move. When he got news that the enemy had
20:13
Speaker 2: been sighted, he and his fleet sailed out from Masampo
20:18
Speaker 2: toward O Kinoshima, which was east of Sushima. This was
20:25
Speaker 2: meant to be the likely sight of a naval battle. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and Togo decided it's time to it's time to
20:36
Speaker 1: rally the troops, and he said, the fate of the
20:39
Speaker 1: empire depends on the issue of this battle. Let every
20:42
Speaker 1: man do his utmost. The Russians are coming, essentially, and
20:47
Speaker 1: the Russian fleet is approaching Sushima. And as they're approaching,
20:55
Speaker 1: Togo changes course and he looks like he's going to
20:59
Speaker 1: he looks like he's trying to pass the Russians by.
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Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden, he makes a sharp turn
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Speaker 1: and his number one and number two striking forces follow
21:11
Speaker 1: his main ship. This is now known as the Togo Turn,
21:16
Speaker 1: and it is famous in military history.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not really a term that is meant
21:24
Speaker 2: to be taken positively, if I'm not mistaken. This was
21:27
Speaker 2: considered a bit of a brash, borderline dumb maneuver, right, Yeah.
21:33
Speaker 1: At first it was Yeah, now it's one of those
21:36
Speaker 1: things that's considered like a legendary chess move. It looked
21:40
Speaker 1: so dumb at first, and then people realized what Togo
21:44
Speaker 1: was actually planning. It allowed him to have his full
21:49
Speaker 1: the position of his striking forces at full broadside firing position,
21:54
Speaker 1: and it put his fleet in front of the Baltic fleet.
21:58
Speaker 1: This is something that the Japanese Navy would later study
22:03
Speaker 1: in depth. Again, we'll skip over the firing of this
22:08
Speaker 1: but ridiculous historians. We have to realize that this is
22:12
Speaker 1: such a power in maritime history that historians are still
22:17
Speaker 1: studying the minute that someone fired on someone else.
22:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, and speaking of historians, there is an incredibly in
22:28
Speaker 2: depth I guess you could call it like an academic
22:30
Speaker 2: paper from Naval Historical Society of Australia, specifically about the
22:36
Speaker 2: Battle of Tushima of nineteen oh five by Kubata k
22:40
Speaker 2: which you can find in Navyhistory dot AU. And speaking
22:44
Speaker 2: of down to the minute, this article uses like military
22:47
Speaker 2: time down to the minute to talk about and analyze
22:50
Speaker 2: some of these very tricksy moves by General Admiral Rather Togo.
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Speaker 1: Yes, so do check that out. Is available for free
22:59
Speaker 1: audi line. We are going to just tell you, as
23:03
Speaker 1: Noel said, that it is very thorough. It is an
23:07
Speaker 1: exhaustive study. It's one of the best of its kind
23:09
Speaker 1: about this pivotal moment in maritime war. And the result
23:16
Speaker 1: of the Battle of Tsushima was by all measures decisive,
23:21
Speaker 1: that's right.
23:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no question as to who the victor
23:24
Speaker 2: was here, thirty eight Russian ships were involved in the battle,
23:28
Speaker 2: and only a single transport and two battleship destroyers rather
23:33
Speaker 2: reached their final positions in where they were headed Vadivostok,
23:38
Speaker 2: of course, which was that seasonal port. So I'm going
23:41
Speaker 2: to keep referring to it as one of the converted
23:44
Speaker 2: cruisers that was steam powered managed to kind of limp
23:49
Speaker 2: its way back to Kronstadt, and the remaining thirty four
23:53
Speaker 2: ships were absolutely obliterated, either sunken or captured by Japanese forces.
24:00
Speaker 2: Are they were interned in other ports that weren't neutral
24:04
Speaker 2: to the conflict.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and this is due to Togo's brilliance as
24:11
Speaker 1: a tactician. That one ship that escapes, that converted cruiser
24:17
Speaker 1: just you know, Crowdstut is a port in like adjacent
24:23
Speaker 1: to Saint Petersburg, So they limped all the way back home,
24:27
Speaker 1: and yeah, you can arrest ships they in turned the
24:31
Speaker 1: ships they didn't destroy. On the other side, Togo only
24:34
Speaker 1: lost three torpedo boats while literally annihilating two entire fleets
24:42
Speaker 1: of Russian navy. That's why it's regarded as the greatest
24:46
Speaker 1: naval victory in modern history.
24:49
Speaker 2: That's right. Doctor Z points out that this incredibly decisive
24:53
Speaker 2: victory by Japan and the Battle of Tushima more or
24:56
Speaker 2: less ushered in a brand new style, an era really
25:01
Speaker 2: of geopolitical maneuvering, and set the stage for a lot
25:05
Speaker 2: of future conflicts and mediation.
25:08
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, exactly. The Battle of Tsushima does not automatically
25:13
Speaker 1: end the war, but it inspires Japan to push for
25:18
Speaker 1: peace negotiations. Right, we're in a good position. We just
25:23
Speaker 1: did some bonkers, crazy successful stuff. So while we're at
25:27
Speaker 1: an advantageous position, let's negotiate. Let's get that surrender. And
25:34
Speaker 1: you know, we have to remember that war is hell,
25:37
Speaker 1: and war is also expensive. So the country of Japan
25:42
Speaker 1: is exhausted militarily, financially. It swung above its weight class arguably,
25:49
Speaker 1: and that high risk led to a high reward. They
25:53
Speaker 1: created in the peace negotiations a permanence to their control
26:02
Speaker 1: of Manchuria. And they said, look, Saint Petersburg, let's just
26:11
Speaker 1: let's hash this.
26:12
Speaker 2: Up's hug it out.
26:14
Speaker 1: Let's say good Jigi, easy, good gaming, guys. So on
26:18
Speaker 1: June first, nineteen oh five, the Japanese representative to the
26:23
Speaker 1: United States came to President Teddy Roosevelt and said, hey,
26:28
Speaker 1: can you come in, will you smooth over this? And
26:33
Speaker 1: you know, will you talk to the Russians for us?
26:35
Speaker 1: Because they're they're kind of mad at us.
26:38
Speaker 2: They're a little cranky, those Cossacks. They're fiery tempers, you know.
26:42
Speaker 1: And Russia was originally not going to play ball. They
26:48
Speaker 1: were not going to go to a negotiation table. But
26:51
Speaker 1: thanks to Teddy's intervention, thanks with Roosevelt's support, the Japanese
26:57
Speaker 1: did decide they're going to occupy the large island that
27:01
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, Sakalon, which is the nearest Russian territory,
27:06
Speaker 1: and the fighting still continues until August when the last
27:12
Speaker 1: Russian garrison there surrenders. At this point, Japan's image has improved.
27:26
Speaker 1: This is crazy branding, right, The United States in particulars like,
27:31
Speaker 1: look at these guys, you know, look how crazy awesome
27:36
Speaker 1: they are. And because the eyes of the world are
27:39
Speaker 1: on them, the great Western powers are finally in Japan's
27:43
Speaker 1: mind seeing them as a possible great power. They got
27:46
Speaker 1: to worry about the optics.
27:47
Speaker 2: That's right. They showed some benevolence, didn't there. They were
27:50
Speaker 2: kind more or less considering conditions to their captives, right.
27:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, they wanted the rest of the world to say, look,
28:00
Speaker 1: this is how we treat POW's. We're not necessarily beheading people.
28:04
Speaker 1: The wars over, We're not having a big to do
28:07
Speaker 1: with parades and victory marches and all this stuff. We're
28:11
Speaker 1: playing nice.
28:13
Speaker 2: And the in Togo even go to see his convalescing
28:16
Speaker 2: rival in the hospital.
28:19
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, he sure did, And we have a great
28:23
Speaker 1: quote from their conversation.
28:26
Speaker 2: Indeed, defeat is an accident to the lot of all
28:29
Speaker 2: fighting men, and there is no occasion to be cast
28:33
Speaker 2: down by it if we have done our duty. I
28:36
Speaker 2: can only express my admiration for the courage with which
28:39
Speaker 2: your sailors fought during the recent battle, and my personal
28:42
Speaker 2: admiration of yourself, who carried out your heavy task until
28:47
Speaker 2: you were seriously wounded.
28:49
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is a very classy thing to say.
28:52
Speaker 2: It's magnanimous. Yeah, that's the right word. It's at the
28:54
Speaker 2: very least shows empathy, and it is a very human
28:58
Speaker 2: way of speaking to one's enemy.
29:00
Speaker 1: And he's speaking to the wounded Russian Vice Admiral Zenovi
29:04
Speaker 1: rules Hyssvinsky and well done.
29:07
Speaker 2: Then I couldn't have even attempted that.
29:08
Speaker 1: Thank you, I did mispronounce it, So this okay, he
29:13
Speaker 1: mispronounced it with a plump thank you. So this is
29:18
Speaker 1: this is yet more propaganda, even though Togo honestly, from
29:23
Speaker 1: what we know about Togo, he probably did mean it sincerely.
29:28
Speaker 1: He probably was saying this from a place of great
29:32
Speaker 1: regard and respect, and he meant it to be private.
29:37
Speaker 1: It sounds like he really meant it to be private.
29:39
Speaker 1: You know, shake of the hand, I acknowledge you as
29:44
Speaker 1: an equal, and you know, things could have turned out
29:49
Speaker 1: completely differently. Who will know. But it is valuable PR
29:54
Speaker 1: because this happens six days after the Immortal Battle, and
29:59
Speaker 1: it comes it becomes a talking point, a lightning rod.
30:05
Speaker 1: You see all these visual records and text about this,
30:08
Speaker 1: and then right, yeah.
30:10
Speaker 2: Isn't this essentially like an example of kind of like
30:12
Speaker 2: the way more modern wars are fought on multiple fronts.
30:16
Speaker 2: There's like sort of the coverage angle, the idea of
30:19
Speaker 2: embedded journalists, and sort of the like PR side of
30:22
Speaker 2: a war. This seems to be sort of like a
30:25
Speaker 2: approaching that more modern, you know, style of warfare, right
30:30
Speaker 2: h yeah.
30:31
Speaker 1: And then they they also release a hospital They also
30:37
Speaker 1: release one of the hospital ships that have been captured,
30:41
Speaker 1: and they say, hey, go check on your folks, collect
30:46
Speaker 1: any wounded Russian soldiers they're still in the area. And
30:49
Speaker 1: to your point, this is another aspect of the conflict, right,
30:55
Speaker 1: there is another knock on consequence because these gestures, sincere
31:02
Speaker 1: or not all were leading to the creation of the
31:07
Speaker 1: image the Japanese Empire wanted at the time, a victorious
31:12
Speaker 1: nation that is also compassionate. You know what I mean.
31:16
Speaker 1: In short, we are the good guys. Look at us.
31:19
Speaker 1: We're not sore winners. And once this once this takeover
31:25
Speaker 1: the island is complete, and once these conversations between the
31:29
Speaker 1: admirals occur and the hospital ship is released, the road
31:33
Speaker 1: to a peace treaty is much easier. President Roosevelt is
31:38
Speaker 1: hosting so throws.
31:39
Speaker 2: His hat in the ring as mediator, right, but doesn't
31:42
Speaker 2: he doesn't don't They politely decline?
31:44
Speaker 1: Ah, he says. He says, guys, come hang out with
31:50
Speaker 1: me in New Hampshire. You'll you'll love it. It's the
31:54
Speaker 1: Granite State.
31:55
Speaker 2: It's beautiful this time of year.
31:57
Speaker 1: Believes are beautiful. So eventually Russian negotiators say, okay, it's
32:03
Speaker 1: it's going to be less painful to go through diplomatic
32:07
Speaker 1: means than it will be to go through another armed struggle,
32:10
Speaker 1: especially because we just got our butts handed to us,
32:14
Speaker 1: and we are going to accept the majority of Japanese
32:18
Speaker 1: conditions or demands for peace. The Czar Nikki two says,
32:24
Speaker 1: we are not going to reject a claim for indemnity.
32:29
Speaker 1: We're going to offer We'll say that we recognize Japan's
32:36
Speaker 1: control of the southern half of Sakkolan Island, and the
32:42
Speaker 1: Japanese forces said, okay, yeah, deal. So they signed the
32:46
Speaker 1: Treaty of Portsmouth on September fifth, nineteen oh five, ending
32:51
Speaker 1: a war that lasted nineteen months.
32:54
Speaker 2: But if I'm not mistaken, Ben, this didn't go over
32:58
Speaker 2: particularly well with the Japanese public, despite the Japanese being,
33:02
Speaker 2: you know, the victors and receiving the you know, most
33:06
Speaker 2: of the benefits of the treaty terms. I guess the
33:10
Speaker 2: idea was that they should have been paid reparations of
33:15
Speaker 2: some kind, that Russia would yield to every single Japanese
33:19
Speaker 2: demand without negotiation, and there was some kind of public
33:24
Speaker 2: backlash and the way it was reported and the way
33:26
Speaker 2: the public responded.
33:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you absolutely nailed it. The people themselves felt betrayed.
33:33
Speaker 1: And it's a phrase you can see in newspapers of
33:36
Speaker 1: the time because on their end, you know, the civilians
33:39
Speaker 1: there are going through so much economic strain. They've lost
33:44
Speaker 1: a lot of loved ones in this war that lasted
33:48
Speaker 1: nineteen months and to the on the day the treaty
33:53
Speaker 1: was concluded, we see a public outcry. I wasn't aware
33:58
Speaker 1: of this at first. Thirty thousand demonstrators gathered in Tokyo,
34:03
Speaker 1: and they eventually rioted and for a while martial law
34:08
Speaker 1: had to be.
34:10
Speaker 2: I believe that. I'm sure you're familiar with a park
34:13
Speaker 2: and it was known as the Habia Riots.
34:15
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, known as the Habia Riots. And that comes
34:19
Speaker 1: to us from the Asia Pacific Journal, is where we're
34:22
Speaker 1: pulling some of this information from. And that, fellow ridiculous historians,
34:27
Speaker 1: is the story of how the Nation of Japan, the
34:31
Speaker 1: Empire of Japan, once upon a time, absolutely rinsed the
34:37
Speaker 1: largest land empire in the world.
34:39
Speaker 2: Dowst juiced wa frombade saute juliennes. Perhaps's lunch im hungry,
34:48
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, despite this public backlash in Japan,
34:53
Speaker 2: in fact, Prime Minister at the time, Katsura Taro's cabinet
34:58
Speaker 2: would ultimately crumble as a result of this. It's my
35:02
Speaker 2: understanding it was ultimately seen through the lens of history
35:06
Speaker 2: as a resounding success.
35:10
Speaker 1: And with that we would love to preemptively thank our
35:16
Speaker 1: super producer mister Max Williams for a resounding success editing
35:21
Speaker 1: this episode. We'd also like to thank all of you
35:25
Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians for joining us on this journey. Again,
35:29
Speaker 1: there's a lot more information out there for fellow war
35:34
Speaker 1: Nerds fans of war history please check out not just
35:39
Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts and mechanics and back and forths
35:43
Speaker 1: of this conflict, but the context that led to it,
35:47
Speaker 1: right and how the consequences of these battles in this
35:51
Speaker 1: war paved the way for other conflicts in the future.
35:55
Speaker 2: Surey, it really did. The ruster Japanese War large kind
35:58
Speaker 2: of ushered in a new era of modern warfare, and
36:02
Speaker 2: the way it was covered in the way like kind
36:05
Speaker 2: of the world saw conflicts like this moving forward. Pretty
36:10
Speaker 2: interesting stuff. So there's definitely a lot more context to
36:13
Speaker 2: be had, but huge thanks to our reach associet on
36:16
Speaker 2: this episode, these episodes, Doctor Z thanks to Alex Williams Alex,
36:21
Speaker 2: what Is It Tijuana Williams, who composed our theme.
36:26
Speaker 1: And big thanks to the one and only Aj Bahamas Jacobs,
36:30
Speaker 1: who runs a fantastic show called The Puzzler wrote an
36:34
Speaker 1: excellent book about living constitutionally. A huge fan please check
36:39
Speaker 1: it out. It's such a big another one about living biblically.
36:42
Speaker 1: M M yeah, yeah, he will find Aj Bahamas Jacobs
36:48
Speaker 1: will find the most fascinating way to explore history. We're
36:55
Speaker 1: super whim. We'd love having him on the show. He's
36:58
Speaker 1: had us on his show a couple of times, and
37:00
Speaker 1: speaking to people who have been on the show, we
37:03
Speaker 1: do have some terrible news, and we don't want to
37:06
Speaker 1: end on terrible news, but it's really important. Jonathan Strickland
37:10
Speaker 1: aka the Quist, will be returning to the show very soon.
37:14
Speaker 1: We fought against it, but it is in the peace negotiation,
37:18
Speaker 1: so it's one of the terms we agree to.
37:21
Speaker 2: I think it's actually going to happen in a pretty
37:24
Speaker 2: interesting scenario, as all the old Jay strick would say,
37:28
Speaker 2: where the three of us are going to be quite
37:31
Speaker 2: far abroad together. We'll talk more about that when the
37:34
Speaker 2: time comes, but.
37:35
Speaker 1: It's quite close together now.
37:37
Speaker 2: We're making it still together and far Aflung from from
37:40
Speaker 2: the rest of the world that we know, little teez.
37:43
Speaker 2: We'll say you more about that soon. In the meantime,
37:45
Speaker 2: we'll see you next time, folks. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio,
37:56
Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen
37:59
Speaker 2: to your favor Rich shows.