Latest / The Swan Effect - Creating and Sustaining Your Financial Wellbeing / S3 E9: Mental Health = Wealth

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S3 E9: Mental Health = Wealth · The Swan Effect - Creating and Sustaining Your Financial Wellbeing

• 0:00
  Malika Petersen: Your legacy is about more than just investment returns. It's about the peace of mind that comes with knowing that you've partnered with an investment manager who has the right skills and experience to grow your wealth. Old mutual wealth is a world class investment destination offering you a wide range of investment strategies and specialist wealth management solutions. Together with your financial planner, we model a strategy around your specific needs, supported by a multi skilled team dedicated to taking your wealth further, whether your goal is to grow your wealth, generate income or preserve capital, we select the best and most suitable investments based on your investment strategy and our extensive research and insights.
• 0:51
  Malika Petersen: Old mutual wealth is an advice led wealth management business aimed at providing financial planners and their clients with a full suite of industry leaning strategies and services. For more information, please visit our website@www.oldmutual.co.za/wealth
• 1:26
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hi there. I'm Arthi Rabikrisson,
• 1:28
  Malika Petersen: Hello. I'm Malika Peterson.
• 1:31
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Welcome to
• 1:32
  Malika Petersen: the swan effect podcast.
• 1:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Money makes the world go round. Yet it's not so easy to understand its complexities, particularly when it comes to investing,
• 1:43
  Malika Petersen: that's why Arthi and I are using this platform to educate, inspire and help you gain confidence in your relationship with money,
• 1:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: so that you can better manage your finances and investments.
• 1:57
  Malika Petersen: We are two women in finance.
• 1:59
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That's pretty cool, isn't it?
• 2:01
  Malika Petersen: It certainly is. You've been in stockbroking, private wealth management, asset management, and now an award winning businesswoman who is coaching and assisting businesses with capital and strategic advice.
• 2:14
  Arthi Rabikrisson: And Malika, you have a wealth of experience in wealth, excuse the pun, in financial planning, investments and relationship management. So you're also at the coal phase when it comes to where and how people are investing both getting it right and getting it wrong,
• 2:32
  Malika Petersen: an stuck in the gray areas too. Indeed, I've seen the many phases and moods of financial cycle and how our decisions at those times impact us. So listeners and subscribers, if you are looking to get unstuck, feel empowered and make some strides in how you tackle your money, we are here to help you,
• 2:55
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and it all starts with listening to this upcoming episode. Enjoy.
• 3:04
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Hi listeners. We are back again to continue our journey into our advent calendar of financial knowledge. We've spent the last few episodes exploring some very technical aspects of wealth creation and financial well being, but I am quite excited that today we are covering a little bit different because actually, you know what everyone October is Mental Health Awareness Month, and we are here to share with you that mental health equals wealth, both in the figurative and literal sense. Hi, Malika, how are you?
• 3:41
  Malika Petersen: Hi, Arthi. In light of the topic that we're covering this week, I'm not just going to say I'm fine, which is kind of the standard response that we as South Africans often give. I will say that I've had a good month with some ups and downs. So the ups was that I had a successful month at work, and I got to spend some nice quality time with my kids, which is awesome. Some of the downs that my husband is away on on business for a few days, so i defintely miss him dearly, which wasn't great. And then obviously we've had some really cold weather in South Africa, which is strange for us, right for this year, because you know, we have some nice hot weather, but I think I'm very excited that we're covering this very important topic of mental wellness today. And you know what Arthi I think this is the perfect opportunity to reveal the Advent Calendar slot that explores this reciprocal relationship between mental health and financial well being.
• 4:43
  Malika Petersen: Now, it may sound strange, but I'm using the word excited when we talk about mental wellness, but I really do so, because I truly believe that what we're about to share will really, really help people manage their mental well being, though.
• 4:59
  Malika Petersen: Little bit more effectively.
• 4:59
  Malika Petersen: According to an online survey that was done by the South African depression and anxiety group, is a staggering 46% of respondents who identified financial stress and pleasure as a significant contributor to their mental health challenges.
• 5:15
  Malika Petersen: Now
• 5:17
  Arthi Rabikrisson: that is high.
• 5:19
  Malika Petersen: That's very high, but I think what was surprising and concerning to me is that actually shown that young adults aged 18 to 24 were the most vulnerable. Now I didn't expect that. And what is even more surprising is that, actually this is not unique to South Africa.
• 5:35
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay,
• 5:37
  Malika Petersen: in the UK as well. There was a UK study that had 86% of respondents to the money and mental health survey that said that they are experienced mental health problems, and they said that their financial situation had made it worse.
• 5:54
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Incredible numbers. Malika,
• 5:55
  Malika Petersen: it's it's massive numbers, right? I mean, it's quite surprising to me. So now I think we've always prouded ourselves on providing our listeners with key practical tips, and we will spend a lot of today's episode doing that, but first Arthi can you briefly touch on exactly what mental health is?
• 6:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay,
• 6:14
  Malika Petersen: How do you identify potential challenges and why is it so important? But before you do that, in the spirit of our topic, let me ask you, how are you?
• 6:24
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, I love that. I love that. Well, I'm going to say I am well, Malika, which I mean, sounds like a bit of a generic answer, but let me, let me embellish that a little bit for you. Meaning I'm well, because my month has been an ongoing journey of self discovery, actually, so I've learned things about myself that were blind spots. I've observed others and found things that I really want to emulate. It's actually making me quite deliberate about decisions and actions that I'm, you know, going to be taking going forward. And I know it's kind of sounding a little bit like these are new year resolutions, in a way. But you know what? I believe that we can resolve and solve to do something anytime in the year. So if anything, September often tends to be a great strategic audit time for myself. And if I think back, pretty much every September I've done this Malika, so I think it's become my new habit and my new pattern. Okay, so let's dive into some of those questions you asked me and you you asked, what is mental health? Mental Health everyone refers to simply put our general state of well being from an emotional perspective and a psychological perspective.
• 7:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So I guess what I'm trying to say, it means it's the state of our mind, and based on the state of our mind, that affects how we think, how we feel and how we act, it can also help us determine how we handle stress, how we relate to others, even how we make healthy choices.
• 7:53
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Now, of course, you know, many people will say, okay, but I hear this word mindset, Arthi.
• 7:55
  Arthi Rabikrisson: What is mindset now? Okay, so you're making this distinction, that this is something to do with my state of mind. Okay, so this is actually about mindset.
• 8:06
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You know, a large part of it is about mindset. So let me define mindset for you. Mindset means our particular way of thinking.
• 8:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It means it's our set of beliefs, our attitudes and our perspectives, and that is shaping how we interpret and respond to the world around us.
• 8:20
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So if you're thinking, Oh, is this about my childhood? Well, yes, part of it is. It's about our upbringing, our experiences, our childhood, everything that is led up to us being who we are now. So that's one key component right to our state of mind.
• 8:37
  Arthi Rabikrisson: The other significant part is actually the biological part, meaning the health of our brain.
• 8:40
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, how fit our brain is determines on how optimal this beautiful organ our brain is going to function. So brain fitness is about just making sure that we are actively seeking to have what's known as a bilateral brain, meaning that when we're taking in information everyone. So when you're listening to me now, Malika, and when you're listening to me now, listeners, it's about taking everything I'm saying and taking all these different cues in the way I'm saying it, and processing it completely, absolutely all at once to make it actually make sense to you.
• 9:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So that's what this bilateral brain is, is processing information simultaneously across your hemispheres. For most of us, we tend to switch between different hemispheres of the brain. Now this means that, you know, things happen still very fast, but there's a little bit of a time gap where in the switching process, we lose time, and obviously over time, this increases the state of time that we're losing away in terms of processing information. So practically, what this means is sometimes you might find you're taking in a lot of information, but actually you're not able to process quick enough, or suddenly you'll say, oh, man, I'm finding this really hard to do. Like, why am I not getting this at this point in time? It's that little piece that we're talking about that we tend to get a little bit overwhelmed. So if you combine these two everybody this mindset and this fit brain, it means we can achieve our goals despite whatever highs and lows, ups and downs we're experiencing, we're also able to regulate how we handle stress and stress. I mean, maintaining our ability to cope with stress is a key part of making sure that we can be optimal, right? And you know, I work with with clients in this particular space, Malika, often to understand what's their level of brain fitness. And I can tell you, it's not actually difficult to do if we put it front and center everybody. Just like we go to the gym, we work out, we get physically fit, we can actually slot this in, in terms of making sure that we're getting our brain fit as well.
• 10:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: There's a lot of overlap in terms of things that we do to maintain physical fitness that actually directs positively impacts the quality of our brain fitness as well. So I just want to put that out there too.
• 10:53
  Malika Petersen: You've given us such a good understanding of mental health, Athi around mindset and brain fitness kind of determining our state of mental well being, which is very interesting to me. And you know, kind of, just with this understanding you've given me, I can already see that there's a link between mental wellness and financial and kind of how the vice versa is also to so how your financial well being could also impact your mental health, right, right? But I think let's, let's just start with the former. Okay, so in this podcast, we often speak about yourself as being a key resource in creating your financial freedom. I think we've covered that extensively in this podcast, and the creation of wealth definitely starts with our own ability to create income, get a side hustle, and like you know, to create those multiple streams of revenue, which we always talking about.
• 11:52
  Malika Petersen: So what I found quite interesting when I was looking at that study from the the UK, which was actually a national poll, right? It shows that mental health challenges definitely does affect our ability to create income. I mean, in that study, for example, they found that the income gap for those with mental health problems is quite significant. I mean, the study showed that people with mental health problems and average growth about 10 to 20% less than people don't have mental health problems. I mean, which is massive, especially if you consider timing, compounding, etc, that's that's quite big, right?
• 12:30
  Malika Petersen: Yes. And then they also found that less than half, so under 50% of people in the UK with mental health problems are actually employed, and that's kind of big, right?
• 12:44
  Malika Petersen: Because that means that over 60% are unemployed, which is massive, right? Mm, hmm. They also found that people with mental health problems are more likely to work part time, and they are over representative in low paying roles. Now, this is huge, exactly. I mean this, this is quite big, right? The second thing that we talk about when on the Swane effect podcast is this key to achieving financial freedom through our ability to spend ourselves into wealth. We often, we often, kind of coing that phrase about spend yourself wealth. You'll spend yourself into wealth.
• 13:18
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yes, yes.
• 13:19
  Malika Petersen: And we need to look at how mental health could affect spenditure or the ability to save so some of the common symptoms of mental health include increasing volatility, memory problem, right, which obviously makes it harder for you to keep on top of your financial manage or to deal with things that could increase to the to the likelihood of financial difficulties. So that's that's kind of key to understanding also, many people with mental health problems report that their spending pattern and ability to make good financial decisions change significantly during periods of poor mental health that while like six to 10 people, five or 6 in 10, people with mental outcomes found that it was harder to make sound financial decision. 42% of them reported that they actually put off paying their bills during periods of bad mental health, which is so significant, right?
• 14:17
  Malika Petersen: I mean, 38% of them said that they actually took out a loan that they would not otherwise have taken during these periods.
• 14:23
  Malika Petersen: So it's important to understand that our spending is impacted during periods of of poor mental health as well. I mean, lastly, ja, that's that's quite big, right? So, income has been impacted. Spending has been impacted. Now the last part, which is quite significant is that people with all mental health challenges, or periods of mental health challenges, can also make it harder for you to engage with, with essential services like banks or or anybody that's that you need to engage with, to discuss your goals, to discuss your accounts.
• 14:58
  Malika Petersen: Right? This could further lead.
• 14:58
  Malika Petersen: Into financial difficulties, just which I think is very important, because you actually have difficulty having those conversations that need to be had in order to relieve some of your financial stress.
• 15:13
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yes, yes.
• 15:14
  Malika Petersen: What I found very, very interesting is that people with mental health problems actually reported that they don't discuss this when consulting a medical professional around the mental health problem, I found that very, very important, because how do we your health professional is your first step to kind of looking for help when it comes to mental health, and you do not talking to them about the impacts of your mental health and your financial situation, that's very key. But ja, I think for us, declining mental health often leads to feelings of lethargy, tiredness, and this really pursues one's ability to or affects one's ability to pursue knowledge or skills. Um, like, listening to our podcast for example, if you feeling tired and lethargic it's the last thing you want to do is listen to a podcast. Think about that side of school that that we always talk about, like, you know, you're really not there.
• 16:11
  Malika Petersen: So I think Arthi it's very clear that mental health has a really big impact on our financial well being, but that's a vicious cycle, right? Because our financial wellbeing can also impact our mental health?
• 16:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: No, absolutely. I mean, you know, what was coming up for me as you were speaking is about this very, very apparent and clear link towards the state of our mind, our mental health and our ability to make effective decisions. That's what it was boiling down to me, right? You know? So it's so true everything that you've been sharing, plus all of these stats in the research as well. And this last point that you say, you know that finances and our stress about finances, does everyone impact our productivity, our physical health, our sense of esteem about ourselves. It strains relationships. And you know what? Unfortunately, in very, very difficult situations where perhaps you've not been diagnosed, or if you've, as Malika said, not been able to go and speak to a health professional it can lead to self harm, everybody, which is awful, right? We all remember Malika when the financial crisis hit in 2008 how many people unfortunately succumb to the stress in such a harrowing way.
• 17:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I mean, I still remember seeing the videos of it. It was crazy.
• 17:22
  Malika Petersen: Yeah, it was terrible. Yeah,
• 17:23
  Arthi Rabikrisson: it was really, really terrible. Those were extreme cases, but it was, of course, a case where people were under such financial stress, right? And here's some of the other triggers about why this could potentially be happening. Okay, one of the first things that always comes to mind is around, and we've covered this as well, Malika in one of our previous episodes about our own belief system around money, and more often than not, especially in the kind of environment in the world we live in. Now, our belief system typically believes, typically is, is that money is the only thing that can get us ahead in our lives, right? So as much as we have these things that say money is the root of all evil, and others will be like money is the root of happiness, but it simply put, in order for us to lead a good life, there's a huge component about having money to do that. Okay, because everything costs money, the ability to educate ourselves and our families, ability to pay for food, to be able to have experiences, things like, we want to go to the theater, you want to undertake a hobby, you want to travel, all of these things require money, even if you want to get that help that you so desperately need, get you stressed out because you have to pay for that service. It does not come at zero cost. So it's no wonder that this kind of, as you say, the cycle and this belief system around money being at the center to enable things to happen. It's just being perpetuated. And as my my parents, and I'm sure your parents would say as well, Malika, Nothing is for free.
• 18:49
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Everything costs money, alright?
• 18:52
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But then there's the flip side to that, okay? Because it's not entirely true everyone. Okay, something like kindness, kindness through a gesture, does not cost money. The ability to give somebody a smile and make their day. We've seen so many examples, and there's so many memes about this, where one act of kindness sets in motion almost like the snowball effect of kindness from the person who's received it, and how they then go on and push it forward that way that doesn't need to cost money in any way.
• 19:19
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oftentimes we think of, oh, you know, I need to take this experience a paid for experience, but we can actually substitute it for a free ish experience. And I put that in inverted commerce, which can still be very, very fulfilling.
• 19:31
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Like, for example, at the end of this podcast, I'll be taking a lovely walk down by the river.
• 19:39
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Oh, and you know, that just evokes, as you can even tell Malika, You mean these like it's a sunny day, you're taking a walk this fresh air. There's birds, everything, right? But it can still be fulfilling. Now, I mean, that's me going to the other end of the spectrum of sort of saying, yes, cool. They are these free opportunities for us to have experiences. But there's still this idea that, okay, if I want something more.
• 20:02
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Than that, I'm going to have to expend some money in order to do that, right? So oftentimes, you know, we can start off being quite mentally strong, right?
• 20:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: But as our one and our desires increase and we start to upgrade our lifestyles, so too do we increase this dependency on money and our our need to actually spend more time attending to getting more money and building more wealth. So there is all of these stresses that are at play. Can we make them go away? To a large degree, we can, because we need to continue to build how strong we are. And in fact, we want to turn that stress that we may have around money into good stress, rather than going into bad financial stress. And I think that's what we are trying to do here in at the swan effect podcast, is help us understand that there is going to be some level of stress around it, but let's make sure it's the healthy kind that motivates us into making some really good, effective decisions and not resulting in poor decisions to fund this kind of grand lifestyle we're hoping for, poor decisions in the form of gambling, in other forms of addiction, which can actually make a spiral even further.
• 21:05
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Malika, no,
• 21:07
  Malika Petersen: That doesn't paint a good picture
• 21:09
  Arthi Rabikrisson: It doesn't, right?
• 21:11
  Malika Petersen: bad decisions, right? Because, and I mean, I think it's obviously key to point out that as much as we try to experience things like love and kindness, right? We still have to deal with some of the realities of the world around us, which unfortunately, does require money and brandy, I guess. And I mean, I think we've always been very clear with our listeners that we understand the realities out there for us, what's key that we want to provide our listeners with the tool to be able to deal with those realities. So what? What are some of the ideas that we kind of need to get started on?
• 21:44
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay, yeah, cool, absolutely. And we're all about ideas, so let's get into it. Okay, so start, firstly, we need to understand our emotions are actually influencing our spending, and for each one of us that looks different, okay? And that's rooted, as I said earlier, a lot of it in our past, experiences with money, how we were raised around money, even, and also, that shapes our current feelings and our behaviors around money. So once you start to diagnose this a little bit for yourself, or start to go a little bit deeper around these narratives and these stories of you and money and how you've grown up with it, there's a few questions you can start to ask yourself. So firstly, are there certain moments where you're actually inclined to spend more often?
• 22:25
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Times we can actually find, oh, yes, when there's sales, I want to spend more. When, when I'm not feeling good about something, I suddenly want to go on a shopping spree. Yeah, identify some of these triggers also. Let's think about when are those moments when I do feel like saving because that also does happen. Suddenly, we're going to bee in our bonnet, and we're like, cool, I'm going to now put this amount of money away somewhere. I'm going to just sort out my tax free, or I'm going to just align all of my account so we get into that.
• 22:50
  Arthi Rabikrisson: What is the triggers behind that? Also, another question we can ask ourselves before making a spending decision is, well, how do I feel when I make this purchase? Is it going to be different to how I feel when I'm actually saving this money. And you know what? Just asking that question, I'm showing your mind, Malika, you're already thinking, yeah, definitely I am feeling a different way when I'm spending.
• 23:08
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I'm feeling a different way when I'm saving. I think we are able to identify that as well. A fourth question you can ask yourself is also what emotions are coming to mind when you're thinking about money. So thinking about, you know, whether you're spending, whether you're saving with investing, but do you have certain emotions that come up for you, and where are those coming from?
• 23:29
  Malika Petersen: Yeah, that's a big one.
• 23:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: That's a big one. It really is. It'll take some time to unpack absolutely Malika. A fifth question everyone that you can ask yourself is, which parts of managing money is actually making me feel worse and making my mental health feel worse.
• 23:42
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay? Is it things like I'm needing to make appointments, or the fact that I'm about to open an A new bill that I have to pay and I'm just got this trepidation about it? Is it about actually having a tough conversation that then triggers me around how I'm gonna use my money thereafter? Maybe it's also about just not feeling understood enough. So again, this is actually helping us figure out, what are these triggers that are making us ensure we're not making the best decisions? And let's figure them out. And the way to figure this out is use a journal. It's one of the best, simplest tools, where you can jot down your spending, jot down your feelings around it, jot down things around saving as well, and even do a before and after. So you know, as you're about to do something, if you've got that journal nearby, you can even do a voice note type of a journal, if you prefer. So it's on the spot because you've always got your phone next to you, just actually note it down, like, Okay, I'm about to make a purchase. How am I feeling about this? Is this a purchase, for example, around something I really need, or is it something I want? And maybe I could, you know, think about, how do I delay that? Something we always talk about so over time, everybody, and you'd be quite surprised, might not even be a long time. Might be a fairly short amount of time where you start to recognize these habits and these patterns and. You'll have a clearer understanding of how your mood and your state of being and your money are connected, and from there, it gives you that insight to help you plan and look ahead for some of these challenging times.
• 25:12
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Now, if we're trying to avoid spending let's look specifically at the spending piece too much.
• 25:16
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Here's a few tips that I think that could help Malika. So one is share these warning signs that you've now put two and two together with, you know, through this process, with someone that you trust, especially if you're feeling overwhelmed with spending and especially around your mental health as well, that connection is there. So talk to somebody. Okay. Another one is give your cards to someone you trust, or put them in a place where they're really hard to access. I'm a believer in probably doing the first one even, even know where those cards are, you might be temped.
• 25:48
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So give it to someone you trust that you feel okay. If it's with them, it's going to be harder for me to go and ask them for it, because they're going to ask me questions about why I want card back. So maybe do that.
• 25:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Okay. A third one, and this is something I'm guilty of sometimes is, you know, when you're going on websites to shop and they ask you, do you want to save your card and it just seems so easy? Oh, yes, I'll just save my card details for later, because then it just means it's easier for me to spend next time. Avoid. Avoid that. Because what you've done is you've just set up an ease of spending there. So actually, avoid putting the that information in where it's saved, and then that gives you a bit of a pause when you go back in the next time, oh, gosh, I have to put in all my details in again. That might just be the saving grace you need before you to go and spend.
• 26:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: The next one is think about deleting shopping apps, or any apps that make you feel like spending. So, you know, Temu is trending. Shein is trending at the moment, right? People are doing a lot of shopping on that.
• 26:45
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Gosh, imagine if it was not there anymore. You're not going to do mindless scrolling and suddenly see something that you think you should have that's going to spend you money. So we could go cold turkey and delete these.
• 26:55
  Malika Petersen: Oh,
• 26:58
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You feel it, the pain here. Malika, oh, Okay, all right, another one.
• 27:01
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Everyone is again, the scrolling goodness.
• 27:05
  Arthi Rabikrisson: on social media. We obviously get a lot of ads that pop up that can tempt us. So actually, think about minimizing and cutting down how much time we end up doing that on our different social media accounts as well. One that you love, and I know you're going to love me for saying this is about delaying our purchases. Gosh, delay that instant gratification. So you know, tell yourself, if I still want this tomorrow, okay, I'll get it tomorrow. Take a photo about it.
• 27:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: You can note it on a wish list.
• 27:32
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Do whatever you need to delay you actually buying it at that point in time, because you never know how your state of mind and mood might change in just a few hours, if not a day, and you look at it differently. Okay?
• 27:46
  Arthi Rabikrisson: The final one I probably want to add to this, Malika, is actually distract yourself with something else. So if you're in that kind of state and a mood that's making, you want to spend go and do something completely different. Get up, walk away, leave the phone, whatever the case may be, just distract yourself for that point in time so that it doesn't trigger you going into spending mode. And you know what, some people actually find that, you know, I'm not actually going to have any credit cards, for example.
• 28:10
  Arthi Rabikrisson: So that whole situation around cards, you just completely avoid it as well. Why even have it there? If I have to purchase something, actually have to physically go into an app and do an EFT or something. So actually making itself, making it harder for yourself to go and spend money, might actually be very helpful if you find it's too easy to go and spend. So I hope some of these tips are going to be useful listeners in terms of strategy. Some are a bit more difficult than others, but can probably be a bit worthwhile.
• 28:38
  Malika Petersen: Yeah,I actually think these are really, I mean, What do you think Malika?
• 28:41
  Malika Petersen: you, you know, some of them I really trying to maintain. So I think they really, really great.
• 28:45
  Malika Petersen: I think I want to say that there's just one really big one I want to add. And I think especially in South Africa, kind of with our history of disenfranchised individuals. But I think it's important to know how to create boundaries, right?
• 29:00
  Malika Petersen: Many of us take care of extended families, and we help others.
• 29:05
  Malika Petersen: And I think it's important to learn how to say no to others when it's just not financially possible to help a big way.
• 29:12
  Malika Petersen: Think especially when it's family, it's hard. Yeah, it can be exceptionally difficult. And I think, like I said, because our history, we do live in communities and cultures where the help is sometimes kind of expected, and it's got a big burden on us, right? And I think some of the strategies you've mentioned, such as delaying assistance if it's not critical, or actively seeking other ways to fill the need with support can be very, very beneficial to aid you, financially, emotionally and mentally, especially in South Africa, right? I think it's very important that we acknowledge because often, very often, I have conversations with clients and friends and acquaintances where this kind of. Burden of taking care of others weighs on us quite heavily. And I think it is important to note that some of the tips and tricks that you've actually mentioned are key, uh, delaying it for one, you know, delaying assistance, avoid using credit to assist. I know very, very many people actually got an example to take because they feel of needing to assist families. Family members.
• 30:22
  Malika Petersen: And I think it's important to understand that that is just not an option. There are other ways of assisting, and I think that's very important. And, yeah, so, so I think with that, Arthi we kind of, at the end of our conversation
• 30:36
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I think we are but we covered a lot, and you know, this last one that you're talking about, that's an absolute toughie. It's a toughy, but it's very doable. It's very, very doable. So everyone vasbyt as we say, we can get it done.
• 30:51
  Arthi Rabikrisson: I think we come into our parting shots for the episode Malika. So I think let me go with mine. And I would say the one of the biggest things everyone that you can do for yourself is to invest in self care. And this includes, for example, firstly, doing some exercise or physical activity boosts your mood, reduces anxiety, and that makes you more productive and focused when it comes to work. And of course, that means also your finances, right? Secondly, you want to sleep well. Prioritize good sleep, everybody. Poor sleep leads to poor decisions, which can affect both mental health and financial choices, okay, and maybe the third one, I want to say, is mindfulness. So practice mindfulness or meditation, and that will help you manage your stress levels, which, in turn, will keep you from making impulsive financial decisions. I mean, there are others Malika, but I think these are the ones where I feel, if we have to initiate it us, we will each notice the immediate difference that it has in our state of well being, and, of course, that ripple effect of how it helps our financial decision making and ultimately, our financial well being. How about you,
• 31:55
  Malika Petersen: I think, look, you've chatted about how to Malika identify potential mental health problems, which I think is key, but I'm always intrigued by how few people feel comfortable to seek out help when it comes to their mental health, and I hope that what we've done today is kind of allowed our listeners to come to the realization that good mental health is very key in achieving our financial wellbeing, we can kind of start to encourage everybody to take better care of their mental health. I always say that a Mental Health Check is like a dental checkout that is needed once a year, my kids hate me for saying that by the way, but I do, I mean, I truly do believe that. And I mean, I just want to point out that that doesn't necessarily mean going to visit a psychologist once a year.
• 32:38
  Malika Petersen: That's that's not necessarily what I'm saying, but I do think it is important to have a check in with yourself, yeah, to assess how you are truly feeling. Uh, set aside time once. I mean, like you said, you, you know, September's almost kind of become that checking time for you, yep, yep.
• 32:54
  Malika Petersen: So set aside times once a year.
• 32:54
  Malika Petersen: And I almost want to recommend that it's not January, a different time of year to just assess what you've achieved, assess your hits, your misses, where you could have potentially done, done more. Also it's a good time at the same time to consider your goals. Are they still relevant and if not adjusting accordingly?
• 33:17
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ja, absolutely. I mean, I, and I think that's, you know, with my own September audit. That's exactly my thinking, right?
• 33:22
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Because now, yeah, I've still got three months till the end of the year to kind of see if there's anything that needs adjustment, and then to kind of focus then for the new year. So yeah, that that was just me thinking around. But I love that. I love that. So I must tell you, Malika, as part of my own process here, even before you said it. So I've already got my schedule, check in with my coach, with my financial advisor and my mentors, all upcoming the next few weeks. So I absolutely love your parting shot, because I'm actually living it.
• 33:54
  Malika Petersen: Yeah, I think I'm going to get on that too. I think of mental and financial check ins and check up. Here we come.
• 34:00
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Yeah, we come. Well, I mean, we are almost at the silly season Malika, so we might as well do it while we're still sane.
• 34:11
  Malika Petersen: And listeners the same. Go for you, right? Um, kind of message us your, you know what you've shared your these checkups for yourself, and you can, you can use us as your accountability partner.
• 34:21
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ah, ilove that. That is a fabulous idea. I second that
• 34:26
  Malika Petersen: cool until next time everybody, Ciao.
• 34:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao.
• 34:30
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Everyone,
• 34:32
  Malika Petersen: Sharing is caring
• 34:34
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and knowledge is power.
• 34:36
  Malika Petersen: Time for you to be daring
• 34:38
  Arthi Rabikrisson: and let your money confidence bloom like a sunflower.
• 34:43
  Malika Petersen: Thanks for joining us. We hope you found these ideas and guidance useful.
• 34:48
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Do subscribe, share and write a review, or send us comments. We would love to hear from you.
• 34:55
  Malika Petersen: Catch you on the next episode
• 34:56
  Arthi Rabikrisson: of the swan effect podcast.
• 34:59
  Malika Petersen: Bye. Now
• 35:00
  Arthi Rabikrisson: Ciao.