Latest / Heroes Behind the Badge / Tom Lange — The Airport Witness and the Missing O.J. Simpson Evidence | Part 2

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Tom Lange — The Airport Witness and the Missing O.J. Simpson Evidence | Part 2 · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:00
There's two trash containers, one on the left, one on the right.
0:02
44 inches high, four square, flat top, four openings.
0:07
This little bag that I discussed is on top of this container.
0:11
Simpson is reaching into the bag, pulling thi- items out
0:15
that you can't be identified by this witness, and placing
0:18
them down into the container.
0:19
Not just throwing them in there, but shoving them
0:22
down in the container
0:32
Tom Lange led the LAPD investigation into the
0:36
murders of Nicole Brown Simpson and Ron Goldman.
0:39
That same night, Simpson caught a flight to Chicago.
0:42
What he did at the airport before he left is where
0:45
this conversation picks up
0:46
I get it that, uh, OJ did it, did it by himself at the murder scene.
0:51
All the evidence pointed to him.
0:53
But, you know, there, there's this nagging question I think
0:56
on, on most minds, which is how does OJ commit a murder with
1:01
all that blood and, and somehow within a matter of, you know,
1:05
minutes, if not, you know, an hour or so, dispose of his
1:09
bloody clothes, his… the bloody weapon, and, and, you know, you
1:14
would think maybe he did have some help after the fact that,
1:17
that somebody maybe, uh, helped dispose of some of the evidence.
1:20
What, what, what are your thoughts about how he got rid of all
1:23
the blood and evidence, uh, in such a quick manner, in such an
1:27
effective manner as it turned out?
1:30
Okay.
1:30
Uh, yeah, another great question.
1:32
Uh, we spent a lot of time on this, and w- um,
1:35
right down to minutes.
1:37
How long does it take to get from point A to point B?
1:40
In other words, Bundy to Rockingham at 10:30
1:43
on a Sunday night.
1:44
Not long.
1:45
Uh, people say that the times come together.
1:49
The murders occurred probably about 10:35, 10:36
1:54
because of Heidstra, the guy walking his dog.
1:56
I believe his testimony.
1:58
Prosecution didn't.
2:00
They didn't think it was… They, they thought it be,
2:02
uh, it happened about 10:15.
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Well, I, I go along with the guy walking the dog, quite frankly.
2:08
Number one, he was there.
2:09
He does the same thing every night, same
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timeframe, everything else.
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So I would stick with that timeframe We took three trips
2:17
from Bundy to Rockingham on a Sunday night at 12:35, 10:35.
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At no point did it take more than four and a half minutes to
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get from Bundy to Rockingham.
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We went code three in a police car, red lights and
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siren, took about two minutes.
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We went busting street signs, it took about, uh, three minutes.
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Then we stopped at every … Took our time to get from Bundy
2:39
to Rock- never took more than four and a half minutes.
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So we had plenty of time to get from one point to the other.
2:46
As far as what he did with this stuff.
2:51
When Fuhrman found that glove behind the, uh, behind Kato's
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bungalow, that was just good fortune that Kato happened
3:00
to mention the thumps.
3:02
Right.
3:03
To Fuhrman, who happened to be talking to him.
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Fuhrman did the proper thing in going around
3:08
behind, being curious.
3:09
Now, why would somebody be thumping into the, into the,
3:12
uh, air conditioning unit?
3:14
If you look at that area back there, it's very narrow.
3:17
Simpson's a big guy.
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You've got this huge air conditioning unit taking
3:21
up at least two-thirds of the width of that walkway.
3:24
There are no lights back there.
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There's a fence and there's a wall.
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You have almost … You've gotta go walk sideways if you wanna
3:30
get by the, uh, air conditioner.
3:33
Now, why is the glove near the air conditioner behind there?
3:36
Because if you continue beyond those three bungalows all
3:39
the way to the rear, there's a large open area, probably
3:42
about 40 by 40 feet, where they store a lot of junk.
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There's old wheelbarrows, shovels, dirt, cement, just crap
3:50
that, construction crap that's piled back there that they
3:54
It's like a junkyard.
3:55
Put it back there until they find something better to do with.
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It's n- it's, it's not easy to get to because you have to go
4:01
behind the bungalows, and you got this air conditioning unit.
4:05
This is my belief.
4:07
I can't prove this, but I believe that when Simpson
4:09
got home and the limo driver, Allan Park, was trying to get
4:13
ahold of him, he's in a hurry.
4:15
We find blood in the shower, so he started to take a shower.
4:19
We're unable to type the blood in the drain, but we know there
4:21
was human blood in the, in the drain Where Simpson started
4:26
to take kind of a shower.
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I say that he picked up the bloody clothing, shoes,
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gloves, everything that he had, probably the knife, and
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went back behind the bungalows and was gonna take all of this
4:40
stuff to this little junk area and dump it there temporarily.
4:44
Because he had to get a plane that night within an hour and a half.
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He didn't wanna be caught with all this stuff.
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He got behind there.
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He was gonna dump it there temporarily.
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When he returns the next day, later in the day, he'll come
4:56
back and deal with that then.
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But he couldn't deal with it now.
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He had to get rid of it temporarily.
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So Simpson went back behind the, uh, the bungalow there
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and ran into the air unit because he was a big guy.
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I'm not anywhere near as big as Simpson, and I couldn't
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e- I had a hard time getting around that air conditioning
5:13
unit, but I did it anyway and found this area back there.
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There were still cob- uh, spider, spiderwebs and everything
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else, so I know nobody had been back there in a while.
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He didn't get any further than the air conditioning unit.
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And when he bumped into the air conditioning unit,
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he inadvertently dropped that right-hand glove.
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And he walked back out and he says, "Now what am I gonna do?
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I got, I got a chauffeur waiting here.
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I got all this stuff.
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What am I gonna do with it?"
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Well, m- cut now to the, to the limo there and Kato coming
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out and Ash- and, uh, at the Ashford gate and Simpson
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coming out with his bags.
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He had one little half-moon shaped travel bag that
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he had in the driveway.
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Kato says, "Here, let me get that." He says, "No,
5:56
no, I'll take care of that one," and he grabs the bag.
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He doesn't let Kato take this one.
6:01
They load up his golf clubs and everything else, and he
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takes off to the airport,
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okay?
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Where is the, where's the knife?
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Where are the cl- or the shoes?
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Where is anything that he wanted to dump, which is my
6:13
belief, that he wanted to dump behind in that little junkyard
6:16
behind the Rockingham home until he could deal with it?
6:19
Well, how about that little bag?
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Because now we'll switch to the airport 30 minutes later, where
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a very good witness sees Simpson, identifies him, looks behind.
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He's waiting there for his wife to appear, and she's running late.
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She happens to work in American Airlines.
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She's still working.
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He turns back around and he sees Simpson's limo pull in.
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Sees L- Simpson jump out, the red cap comes out, the chauffeur
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gets out, and they start taking out Simpson's stuff, and he,
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and he identifies Simpson.
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And he sees Simpson standing, once everything is inside, it's
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just Simpson standing there.
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No one else is around.
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Simpson just standing at the left side of the entranceway.
7:01
There's two trash containers, one on the left, one on the right.
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44 inches high, four square, flat top, four openings.
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This little bag that I discussed is on top of this container.
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Simpson is reaching into the bag, pulling thing, items
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out that can't be identified by this witness, and placing
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them down into the container.
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Not just throwing them in there, but shoving
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them down the container.
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Wow.
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Simpson zip up the bag, pick up the bag, walk in, and that's it.
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Now he's thinking, well, that's kinda strange, but not a big deal.
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The next morning, this thing breaks, because at the time
7:35
that this happened, the bodies hadn't even been discovered.
7:38
Yeah.
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Nobody knows about this.
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The next day he hears the news about that Simpson, about,
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uh, Ni- Nicole and Goldman, and Simpson could be a suspect
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because this, that, and the other.
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The, the media speculating this and all.
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This guy calls up the defense.
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He gets one of the, uh, defense investigators that I've known for
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years, and he tells him the story.
8:01
Well, the investigator knows better.
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He doesn't, uh, he doesn't wanna hear any of this,
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so he tells the attorneys.
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Uh, the attorneys aren't about to let this go.
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Now, if they use this guy as a witness, it's,
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it's, it's discoverable.
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If you don't use this witness, it's not discoverable.
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They don't have to tell us anything about this guy, and they
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don't until eight months later.
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I'm sitting in court, I go back to lunch, my phone rings.
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It's the same witness.
8:26
He tells me this story, and initially he had called the
8:30
defense, and the defense, of course, didn't want
8:32
anything to do with it.
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So he tells me this story, and to that date, nothing
8:37
has been discovered.
8:38
What happened to the evidence?
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The same question you guys are just asking.
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Well, uh, how about that trash container?
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So we get ahold of this guy and I say, "Meet us at the airport."
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I said, "Can you get out there right now?" He says, "Yes." So
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I bust out there with another guy and a photographer, and I
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meet him at American Airlines.
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Number one, there's no cameras anywhere back then in '94.
9:00
We're looking at the containers.
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We find out there's two pickups a day in LAX, the airport, and
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they … Uh, sorry, three pickups a day, and they go to two common
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landfills within the area.
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What are the chances of finding anything eight, nine months
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after the murders at one of two landfills It's an impossibility.
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In fact, they've already started building a, a home
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development on one of these right off the San Diego Freeway.
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There's no chance we're gonna do it.
9:29
Is that a reasonable thing to think that maybe there's
9:32
something inculpatory in those trash containers?
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Well, we go through all of this.
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I rush into Marcia, the DA, and I say, "Marcia, look what we got."
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I, I don't get excited very often, but I was excited because
9:45
of this witness seeing Simpson's arm in the trash container.
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We've haven't seen this bag since then.
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So I tell her what I have and she says, "Well, not really
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because it's a one-on-one." Well, what she's saying is
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we can't corroborate his story because we only got
10:00
one witness seeing one thing.
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I'm, I'm saying, "So what?
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This is good stuff.
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This is a hole we have here.
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People wanna know where are the shoes, the gloves, the clothing?
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Well, what about this?
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This is very reasonable.
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This is a solid witness.
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Why in hell wouldn't you wanna use him?" "Well, because
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we got this one-on-one, we can't back him up," you know.
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This goes on nonsense.
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You know what happened with all of this crap, you
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never saw this guy testify.
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Now,
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20, 27 years pass and I'm doing a special on this
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thing, and I'm interviewing the limo driver, Allan Park.
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And he's telling me about what happens.
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And he's saying, "Yeah, I, I dropped Simpson, uh, off
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and we're driving away and I just saw him there standing
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by the trash container.
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He's got some bag in his…" And it kept going.
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I said, "Wait up, what'd you say?" And I s- I said, "You saw Simpson
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standing by a trash container?" He said, "Yeah, he was standing
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by the container to the left there of the door going in, and I know
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his bag was there and nobody else.
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He's just kind of looking around.
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I drove away.
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I had to go on my next call, but I saw him as I drove away." I said,
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"You didn't tell anybody this?" He says, "Yeah, I told somebody."
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I said, "When?" He said, "Well, I told Marcia when she interviewed
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me 27 years ago before the trial."
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And you know, Tom, I think you just answered- Wow … you
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just answered a couple- That's the testimony of the witness.
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She lied to me.
11:20
She lied to me.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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I
11:22
want
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to- He saw that all along.
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And it was also something in our first, uh, podcast
11:27
with you that you told us that's for another day.
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We'll talk, you know, that'll be a whole another episode that we
11:34
could get into to discuss that, but that is really interesting.
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And why do you think Marcia held that back?
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Okay, she's playing games.
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Okay?
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Don't misunderstand me, Marcia Clark is a very intelligent woman.
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She was an outstanding prosecutor, but she was playing games here,
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which I don't have a problem with if you tell me about it.
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The game was, this is LAPD on trial.
11:59
Again, we'll go back to what I started with.
12:02
There's no evidence, nothing that's helpful to her
12:04
here, so you're gonna have to do something drastic.
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Well, what do we do?
12:07
We put the cops on trial.
12:09
Every one of you guys knows that's exactly what happens all the
12:12
time to one extent or another.
12:14
This is a big deal.
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This is a big extent here because you got a double murder.
12:18
We're gonna put these cops on trial with a jury who
12:21
really doesn't like cops.
12:22
This is two years after Rodney King, and I don't blame a lot
12:26
of people for that because it, it looked horrible.
12:28
It's, it was not a good moment for LAPD, period.
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I don't care how you cut it.
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But you don't lie about these things.
12:36
She knew we were on trial.
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She knew we were gonna go through a lot of crap.
12:41
That's fine, but all she has to tell me as her investigator
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is what she's doing.
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I wanna know what you have in your mind if you're saying, "Listen,
12:48
Tom, you guys are on trial, so I'm gonna have to play this game.
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I don't wanna put this one on.
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I don't wanna look like you're really doing your job and out
12:55
there looking at evidence." In, in a homicide investigation, when you
13:00
file a case, it belongs to the DA.
13:03
It no longer belongs to the police, but that doesn't
13:06
mean the investigation ends.
13:08
Your investigation can start up 20 years later.
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If there's something, evidence in this case, you're
13:13
gonna be the investigator, but you work for the DA.
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You don't work for yourself.
13:18
Your job is over.
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She's got the case.
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It's their case.
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They filed it.
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You'll continue to work for them, and that's what we did.
13:25
The majority of the, the, uh, evidence in this case came
13:29
after that case was filed.
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It was filed on the basis of the DNA and a blood, foot-
13:34
footwear impressions, and all the stuff at the crime scenes.
13:37
But I got three typewritten pages of things that should
13:41
have been brought up throughout the trial that answer a lot of
13:44
those questions you probably have, that were never brought
13:47
because we were on trial.
13:49
And that's fine.
13:50
If that's the district attorney's way to handle things, it's your
13:53
case, you do what, do what you want, but tell me about it so I
13:56
know what the hell's going on.
13:58
So what was your relationship and discussions with her
14:04
post-trial and afterwards?
14:08
Interesting question, because there was none.
14:11
I was genuinely pissed.
14:13
Yeah.
14:13
And I think that she was an intelligent woman, maybe a
14:17
little bit of a sociopath.
14:18
I don't know, but I don't think she had a
14:19
conscience with any of that.
14:21
Again, which is fine.
14:22
Cops are on trial, you gotta handle it that way, but
14:24
tell us we're on your side.
14:27
So you- I was on the stand for over eight days.
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I had more problems with her on direct than I did with Johnnie
14:32
Cochran on cross, because I knew exactly where he was coming from.
14:36
I didn't know where she was.
14:38
It was, it was like one-on-one against one
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another, and I'm her witness.
14:42
Did you ever have a conversation where you went to her and
14:45
you say, "You know, you screwed this up. It's on you"?
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Probably not face to face like that.
14:52
Uh, timing would've been terrible.
14:55
It would've been, uh, would've looked like an idiot.
14:58
She would've denied it, and we would've had the problems
15:01
then that we have today.
15:04
It's a little too soon for that.
15:05
It's very obvious what happened, and everybody knows about it.
15:10
The other prosecutors know about it.
15:12
Everybody knows what went on with this whole case.
15:14
Um, it's just unfortunate.
15:18
How about all these years later and the defense attorneys?
15:21
Did you ever have a sit down with them and just kinda
15:23
reminisce about the trial and, and say, "Yeah, well…"
15:26
Well, like I say, Johnnie Cochran, uh, and a, a couple
15:31
others, yeah, we, we played a game back and forth.
15:33
A few of them were kind of straight-laced, too much so.
15:36
Johnnie Cochran had a great sense of humor, very funny.
15:39
Some of the stories were hilarious.
15:41
But we really got along.
15:42
We'd have coffee sometimes and sit together, and it'd be like
15:44
you put your, your game face on, and you go in, and you knew
15:47
exactly what was gonna happen.
15:49
Because while they weren't in charge, they kinda were,
15:52
because they had us as, as their, you know, their, their foils.
15:57
That was very easy for the defense to do under these circumstances
16:00
because, again, unfortunately the timing of the Rodney King thing.
16:04
And when your own prosecutor is playing games with you
16:07
and you don't know it, uh, it makes it just twice as bad.
16:11
So Tom, what I'm talking about is after the trial's over,
16:15
you know, however long, couple years, whenever, did you ever
16:18
sit down with those guys and, and throw it around a little bit?
16:22
Not sit down, but it would be a little remark here and again.
16:25
Um, it wasn't that type of a thing.
16:29
Uh, it's, the one problem that I had with their attorney,
16:32
probably the only one, were with Alan Dershowitz
16:35
Who is still in the news.
16:37
Yeah.
16:38
It came out just a couple of days ago of this crime.
16:40
Yeah.
16:41
I like him.
16:42
I did like him.
16:43
I have a problem with him now because he's either
16:45
totally ignorant of the evidence or he's lying.
16:48
And I don't wanna say he's lying, but he's lying.
16:52
Blood on the socks.
16:53
Are you sure?
16:54
Are you sure about that, Tom?
16:56
The blood on the sock- we had the socks, we had our own criminalist,
16:59
uh, Rod Englert, 50 some-odd years experience as a criminalist
17:03
and a cop, good friend of mine.
17:06
Had those socks.
17:07
He was, he was, he was hired.
17:09
Again, Henry Lee wanted to be hired, I think, by the, by the
17:12
prosecution, but they ended up with Rod Englert, which is
17:14
just as good, if not better.
17:17
Rod got those socks, put them under high intensity lighting.
17:21
The blood on the socks was spattered.
17:23
It was not poured.
17:24
To this day, Alan says, "My partner Phil Vannatter took
17:28
the beaker of blood and poured it on the socks."
17:31
There's no pouring, there's no socks, it's
17:33
soaking on those socks.
17:35
It's spattered with blood, the same type of spatter
17:38
on Ron Goldman's shoes that's at the crime scene.
17:42
It's spattered with 39 projectiles on one sock, 19
17:46
projectiles on the other.
17:48
Simpson's glo- appear- uh, blood appears on the rim of the sock
17:52
and on the toe of the sock, where he probably removed the
17:55
socks and threw them on his, on his, uh, bedroom floor.
17:59
But all the blood, Nicole's blood, is spattered.
18:03
39 projectiles on one, 19 on the other, no question.
18:07
Here are the photographs.
18:08
I don't think Al never even looked at those socks.
18:11
If you look at them, you see the spatter marks,
18:13
because I saw photographs.
18:16
And they're all spatters.
18:17
There's no soaking of blood.
18:19
When you pour blood on socks, there'd be a soaking.
18:22
Vannatter, number one, didn't plant evidence.
18:25
He's not a crooked cop.
18:26
He wouldn't do that.
18:27
There's no evidence that he did.
18:29
To this day, he still spouts this stuff.
18:33
That's bad enough, but nobody confronts him.
18:36
They don't confront him with the evidence.
18:37
Say, "Here are the photographs."
18:39
By the way, you didn't see those at trial either.
18:42
But these are spatters.
18:43
This is not a pouring of blood.
18:45
And, and to beseech someone's reputation, like of Phil
18:49
Vannatter, who's been gone now for years, and to say that
18:52
he planted blood, why would he do that to begin with?
18:55
This is a double murder case.
18:57
He'd go to jail the rest of his life if that could be proved.
19:00
Right, right.
19:01
Regardless of this outcome on the case, that was just not true.
19:05
And to this day, Dershowitz gets away with this crap,
19:07
and I can't believe it.
19:09
You know, and I wanna ask you a personal question.
19:11
I get- Forget about Dershowitz, and there's been
19:13
all this latest stuff with these so-called mob guys.
19:16
But just in general, say we, we rewind just six months before, uh,
19:21
ago, before all this latest stuff.
19:23
Just in general, Tom, if OJ Simpson … Say you, you
19:28
are … Tom, you were the lead LAPD homicide investigator
19:34
in the OJ Simpson case.
19:36
Had he been convicted, do you think that we'd still
19:40
be talking about it today, and do you think there would
19:44
have been this much intrigue and interest for this long?
19:49
Definitely not.
19:51
Um- Again, you see these things.
19:55
You're gonna see, right, this isn't gonna go away
19:58
because this is probably 32 years later, if not more so.
20:02
Again, the, the people who are most interested in this case
20:04
weren't even born back then.
20:06
This is a new generation-
20:07
Yeah
20:08
… that are being entertained with all of this BS.
20:11
They're being entertained because of the celebrity.
20:14
They're being entertained by, "Well, the cops did this and
20:16
the cops did that." This is entertainment for most people.
20:21
For me, it's a job.
20:23
Uh, I look at it different.
20:24
That's the problem with high-profile cases.
20:26
I've got a lot more cases that were a whole
20:28
lot more difficult than
20:29
This isn't in the top 50, guys.
20:32
This is not that difficult to figure out what happened here.
20:35
Uh, and again, when you have exculpatory evidence,
20:39
you deal with that.
20:40
I had nothing to deal with that as far as … If anything,
20:42
it was exculpatory here.
20:44
Um, if it not had been for the way this thing is pushing, people
20:49
are making a lot of money on this.
20:51
And all of a sudden, The New York Times comes out with this,
20:53
this ex- this all this nonsense.
20:57
It is total nonsense, and it's gonna go away as quick as it came.
21:00
But stick around, because it ain't going anywhere.
21:03
So T- Tom, you call it nonsense and, uh, and the BS and everything
21:07
else, but you know, cop to cop, 32 years or so later,
21:12
are you glad that you were the lead investigator on this?
21:18
Boy, he came up with some pretty good questions.
21:22
Uh, I, in some ways, yes.
21:25
In other ways, perhaps no.
21:26
I don't care for the notoriety.
21:28
I never did.
21:30
It drives my wife nuts.
21:32
Yeah.
21:32
We went to Europe on a vacation after this, and
21:34
people were coming up to me.
21:37
In Europe.
21:38
Uh, they'd watched the trial.
21:40
Yeah.
21:41
It's just cameras in the court.
21:42
That's the other thing, if there'd been no, if, if the
21:44
cameras weren't allowed in there, they wouldn't have
21:46
known most of the people that were involved with us, and it
21:48
would have been a lot better.
21:50
I'm not, I'm not in, into entertainment, okay?
21:53
I don't like the recognition at all.
21:56
I wanna do my job, and I want to be proud and have respect
22:00
for the job that I do, not because it's a big exposure, uh,
22:05
to, to, uh, entertainment for most people, which it has been
22:08
entertainment for most people.
22:11
Again, um, uh-
22:14
But do you, do you believe it's defined your legacy?
22:20
I hope not, because I had a lot of other cases that
22:23
were real cases, all right?
22:24
Yeah.
22:25
Mm-hmm.
22:25
Uh, and it took real police work.
22:27
This took a little bit of some.
22:28
You gotta play some games, but I've, I'm probably at
22:31
well over 100 homicides, and the unit that I worked
22:35
didn't take the self-solvers.
22:37
Here's your case and you had to work.
22:39
Some of them never got solved, but I know who did,
22:43
uh, these types of things.
22:45
The district attorney's office is in charge of these
22:48
cases, you know, their cases when they file them, but
22:51
that's a political office.
22:53
If you're the DA and you're running to maintain your office
22:55
or to, to con- to, to continue on as a district attorney in
22:59
any major city, and you don't have a 90-plus conviction rate,
23:03
you ain't gonna be the DA.
23:04
It's as simple as that.
23:06
I have had a lot of cases turned down that should not have been,
23:09
and I came back when they've killed again on serial cases,
23:13
and it just pisses you off at the time, but that's politics.
23:17
Cops sh- cops make lousy politicians, and
23:21
politicians make lousy cops.
23:23
You keep those things in mind.
23:26
So I define the… I don't know what's to define
23:29
because it's all there.
23:30
I mean, there, there's, there's no unanswered questions.
23:33
There's just supposition now and hearsay.
23:36
There's nothing relevant that hasn't been answered
23:40
You know, um, I, I think I mentioned this in their
23:43
last episode, and, and Bill, you were with me.
23:46
Uh, Dennis, this may be news to you.
23:47
But Tom, uh, uh, years after the OJ case was over, uh, we did a
23:53
Witness to History event where Tom was, uh, part of a panel to
23:56
discuss the OJ case as part of the National Law Enforcement Museum.
24:01
And, uh, after that event, uh, Tom was very gracious and, and
24:06
donated one of the most, uh, uh, valuable historical items I think
24:11
we have in the museum collection.
24:13
And that is the journal he kept from, uh, day one in the case,
24:18
uh, through his investigation, all his observations, all
24:21
his opinions about what was going on, and, uh, that is now
24:24
part of, uh, the National Law Enforcement Museum archives.
24:29
And I think, uh, you know, 100 years from now, generations
24:33
from now, people are gonna, uh, still be intrigued by
24:36
this case, and they're gonna wanna know what happened.
24:39
And, uh, the lead detective in the case, his observations and
24:43
opinions are gonna be perhaps more valuable than anything else.
24:47
So Tom, I, I just wanna thank you again for, for donating
24:51
that, that, uh, very historical piece of, uh, uh, history, and,
24:56
uh, being with us again today to talk through this case.
24:59
Every time we're together, I, I learn new things, and,
25:02
and you enlighten me about, uh, the facts in the case.
25:06
Uh, just so, such overwhelming evidence that, that OJ Simpson
25:09
committed these murders, and it's a travesty of justice
25:13
that he was not convicted.
25:14
But, uh, but you did your job, sir. Right.
25:17
And you are truly one of those heroes behind the badge.
25:20
And, and to, a- and to your, and to your legacy, Tom,
25:23
uh, uh, if you get a chance, check the comments in, uh,
25:27
on the last two episodes.
25:28
I'm sure we'll get plenty on this one, too.
25:31
Uh, there was a true affection for you.
25:34
Yeah.
25:34
Uh, I mean, people said, "Hey, this dude is a straight shooter.
25:38
He's telling it like it is.
25:40
He's a h- he's the hero.
25:41
He's the one that stood up and, uh, uh, uh, with all
25:45
this political bullshit going on, he's the one that stood
25:48
up and told the real story."
25:50
A lot of people get it, okay?
25:52
They get it, and they appreciate you after all
25:56
these years still coming on to do this type of a podcast.
26:00
And, uh, your legacy certainly, uh, is not just one case.
26:05
So many of our guests on Heroes Behind the Badge, they're here
26:09
because of one case, but that is not their legacy And, uh, there's
26:14
a lot of people out there in our audience that support you.
26:17
So, uh, we appreciate you spending this time again with us.
26:22
Every time we get, uh, something a little new, don't we?
26:25
We get a little something that we didn't know before.
26:28
And, uh, for that, I thank you.
26:30
Uh, you don't have to do this, but you chose to do it,
26:33
and we appreciate that, so.
26:35
Well, I appreciate you saying that.
26:36
Thank you very much.
26:38
Again, that's gonna wrap it up for this episode of
26:41
Heroes Behind the Badge.
26:42
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