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Customer Relations: A Pediatrician's Guide Inspired by PayPal and Venmo · Pediatrics Now: Cases Updates and Discussions for the Busy Pediatric Practitioner

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I'm Holly Wehment, and this is Pediatrics Now, cases, updates,
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and discussions for the busy pediatric practitioner.
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Click on the link in this podcast for free credit that may include CME,
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MOC, or ethics credit, depending on our topic or podcast.
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Pediatrics Now is brought to you by the Department of Pediatrics at UT Health
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San Antonio and University Health's new Women's and Children's Hospital.
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It's also brought to you by CPAN, no call, too small.
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I'm really excited about our topic today. We're talking about what can we learn
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in medicine about customer service from the Vice President of Customer Service for PayPal and Venmo.
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And joining me here on the podcast today is Matthew Anderson.
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Hi, Holly. Thank you for having me today. Thank you so much for being here, Matthew. you.
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PayPal and Venmo are the same company? We are indeed, yes. Venmo is one of our many products.
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And if you're not a current PayPal or Venmo user, I would invite you to come on board.
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So you have a long career. You have a lot of experience in banking.
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Is that where you developed this passion for customer service?
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Yeah. In fact, my first job out of college to earn some money as I was going
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on to pursue some higher education was I took a phone service job,
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actually, for a very small startup organization.
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It was my first time on the phones.
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From there, I went and did some process re-engineering and marketing, etc.
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But I always had this kind of callback to the customer we always say is our
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most important asset and our most important kind of part of all of our businesses.
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And so I was drawn to how can I continue to help them?
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So whether it was my time with General Electric, with American Express,
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with Citibank, and then now with PayPal, have always been drawn to how do we
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just take care of customers and help them get on to do the things that they want to do?
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What's their most important part of their day? How do we get them on to do those
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things instead of having to call and worry about talking to us?
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You've been managing large-scale global service centers focused on taking care of customers?
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Yes, for the past now 20 plus years. I won't give a definitive day, but 20 plus years. Yes.
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Anywhere from teams from a couple hundred now up to 12,000 or so people around the globe.
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So in medicine, a phone call is the first touch point. You have some really
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great principles that you recommend that we could all learn from.
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The four principles that I look at and that we try to share with my team is
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we always talk about these kind of four critical components.
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So the first one is know me. And what I mean by that is our customer is a human
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being at the other end of any contact.
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No customer of mine wakes up in the morning and says to themselves,
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gee, I want to call customer service.
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I really want to talk to my banker. I want to talk to my financial representative.
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They're calling because there's a need, there's a drive, there's something that
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is broken or something that they don't understand.
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And so recognizing that there's a human being on the other end of that contact,
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that they want to go see a movie or read a book or go on a jog or take a nap,
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something other than contact you is kind of a critical component.
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In addition to understanding that their time is valuable, also that they have
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needs and desires and concerns.
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And the more that we can humanize that contact and understanding that it's a
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person and that they are valuable to us and their time is valuable just kind
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of sets the tonality for any of our service experiences.
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And how do we best do that? I was calling a dental office to reschedule because
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my daughter was sick and just the person on the other end of line just kind
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of went forward to just rescheduling.
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And I think that she was, she was very sick and had a fever.
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And then it was like, okay, how about next Wednesday?
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And it just felt a little cold.
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Yeah. So we often refer to those as transactional activities within,
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especially within the businesses that I have worked for.
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I can list off the top of my head, as I'm sure many of your listeners can,
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if they needed to contact a bank, what types of things would they contact a
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bank or their financial institution about.
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And if we were to ponder those, we could probably come up with 10 or 15,
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maybe 20 of those that would be the top contact types that anyone calls us for.
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And so our teammates, that's what we refer to as our telephone agents, my teammates.
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Are pretty expert at those types of things as soon as they know they know what
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transactional activities to undertake to get them out and get them through the
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process that becomes a problem.
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Because we look at it if you if we're not careful as a transactional activity
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versus what i tried to train with my teams which is a relationship activity
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again after that first principle know me know that I have value,
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know that my time is important.
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Then we get into the second premise, which is understand my problem.
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And as we think about that, it's really trying to understand not only what the
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customer is asking for, but why are they asking? How does this affect the things that they're doing?
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So in the example of you and your child trying to reschedule the appointment,
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to the person on the other end of the phone call, that was a transaction.
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They literally needed to, I'm sure, go into their scheduling system,
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click a button, move an appointment, unclick a button or click another button,
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confirm it, and then send the
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SMS message or text message out to you to remind you of the appointment.
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But to you, you're a concerned parent who's got an ailing child,
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who you are desperate to get them in to see the dentist or whatever they need to get in for.
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But you also have this sick person in your household that you are caring for.
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So transitioning that from a transactional activity into a relationship.
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And by the way, these don't have to take a lot of time, but that's what we try
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to infuse in our teammates and our agents globally to be able to take that time
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and understand and really help people feel connected.
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Seems like it would make the person who's leading the call, answering the call,
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it would feel better to do that.
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Oh, yeah. In fact, in my world, time is money.
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We often try to manage as quickly as we can, helping people navigate through the system.
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Obviously, if you think of my business like the grocery store line,
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by the time someone gets in line and they're ready to be serviced,
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we want to get them through our process as efficiently as possible.
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So we have all kinds of metrics that help us manage that efficiency.
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So relationship building in that space does not need to take a lot of time.
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What it does require, though, is some investment.
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That being said, what we found is the more that you can do that,
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actually, the quicker things go.
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And I've actually got a quick example in my own life in regards to a health
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care experience that I had. One of the local hospitals is...
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And you're a father of five. Yes, I am a father of five.
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So hospital visits are not our favorite because when we have to take one of
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our children down, we've got to think of all the things you have to worry about
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taking someone to the hospital.
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Making sure the other kids are where they need to be, making sure that the right
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bags are packed with the right equipment and materials that we might need.
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I've got a daughter who's special needs, so that requires some additional thought
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about who's going to be where and how do we coordinate.
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And so getting to the facility in itself is a task, even before we walk in the
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hospital doors for care. And stress is high.
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Oh, my goodness, yes. By the time we're walking in the doors.
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It's a relief to be there, number one.
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And you gear up for the second round of stress that you're about to enter into
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as you go through admitting and sharing all the information about what's going
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on and trying to help diagnose and go through all that activity.
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So one series of stress has built, kind of abated, and another series of stress
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has now been introduced.
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This experience I'll share is actually a very positive one. As we walked into
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the hospital and went through and met with the nurse for the first time.
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The first nurse we actually interacted with was very transactional.
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She came in, had a quick conversation with us about, oh, what brings you here?
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And did some, you know, supplemental conversations about the weather or,
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oh, I'm sorry that you're here, but it felt very hollow.
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The second nurse, as she came in, as the shift changed, transitioned through,
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we ended up with our second care nurse. The dialogue was very different.
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It was the same type of, oh, I'm sorry that you are here. But the question that
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was asked is, I know that you are parents of this special needs person of my daughter.
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I'm here to help care for her needs and your needs.
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Is there anything that you would like me to know that would be helpful in what
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I can do in providing care?
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It's the same question as what can I do for you? But the difference is acknowledging
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that we are experts in caring for our special needs daughter.
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We know all the tricks. We know she's nonverbal. We know what her sounds mean
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and how they would affect.
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We know how she likes to be positioned when she sleeps. We know what toys that
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she likes. We know these things. We are experts in this field.
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And having this nurse just acknowledge that we were experts and having her say,
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I'm here to support you as you help support me transition the entire conversation
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away from a transactional interaction into a relationship interaction.
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And the first words out of my
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mouth were actually, yes, we need these two things if you could help us.
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And she came in and bingo, bingo, we were set up and had all that we need.
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And we were, the care for that day was exceptional. We loved it.
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It's really just acknowledging that the parents are there.
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They know what's going on. The child is there.
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They know what's going on in many cases, if not most cases, and really just
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understanding it's a person that's there because that's what they came for is understand my problem.
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That's the second principle is know me and then understand my problem.
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And once you get to that point, now you can go on with the other principles
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and work your way through the entire mantra.
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How do you instill when it's the 50th call that the person is in that day to
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really care? Yeah, so we have a statement that we live by, that I ask my team
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to live by, which is clear is kind.
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And anyone who's ever called customer service always hears that message at the
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beginning of the contact, right?
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This call may be recorded or monitored for quality purposes.
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We do take that seriously. Actually, we do actually listen to and quality control contacts.
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You do actually listen. Oh, absolutely. We live and breathe by that type of
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feedback of customers because that's the insight that as leadership we need
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to look at to say, how can we be better at helping people navigate through our systems?
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How can we train our frontline people to be more responsive,
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be more empathetic, be more relationship-based? How can we help speed up the
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process, help our teammates navigate the process more effectively and efficiently?
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So one of the things we do with Clear is Kind is we make sure that we actually
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are providing feedback.
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Many people shy away from feedback because they don't want to offend,
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they don't want to hurt other people's feelings, they feel as though it might not be their place.
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But I happen to believe very, very strongly that.
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Feedback is a gift. And I think coaching is a very critical component of that.
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I think of Olympic athletes like Michael Phelps, arguably the best swimmer the world has ever known.
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Michael Phelps has a coach and that coach watches what he does. He gives him feedback.
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He tells him what he's doing well. He tells him where he could have opportunities to improve.
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And so whether you print these mantras, whether you exercise them and pull them
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into your daily lives, we actually within my business, we take one of these a month.
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This is the way that we do it is my team knows them all, but we take one of them a month.
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And we actually have conversations about how are we focusing on building the
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relationship? How are we focusing on understanding the customer's problem?
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And then as we go through the last two, solving that problem and then deepening
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the relationship, which are the other two principles, for us,
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we take a month and we kind of focus on that as the theme.
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And we give each other feedback and we watch for opportunities in those cycles
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to help us improve and be better.
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Okay. So the first principle, know the person. We like to refer to it as know
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me. So we take it from a customer's lens.
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So the four principles are know me. Number two, understand my problem.
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Number three, resolve my problem. Number four is deepen the relationship.
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Are we ready to move on to the solve my problem? Absolutely. Certainly.
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We hear this a lot in medicine. If someone's asking about solving the problem,
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we all hear, and of course, we all have policies, like our policy,
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or that's not our policy.
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Is that something you recommend that is said to customers?
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Actually, in my business, those words are against policy.
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If I can use that terminology. No, we try to stray away from that.
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Customers don't care about your policy. They don't care about why they don't
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care about the thing that you are telling them no for.
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What they want to understand is what can be done.
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In my business, I refer to that as a service, also known as a service yes.
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And usually that word starts with a word like unfortunately,
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if you ever hear that in any service experience.
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Unfortunately, you're pretty much guaranteed that there's a policy that sits behind that principle.
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However, in my business, we do not allow our teammates to say That's against
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policy, therefore we can't.
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What we do instead is we redirect the customer to what we can do.
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So as an example, if you were to call up and want us to transfer money,
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for example, to an unknown customer.
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Our policy is not to do that for a thousand reasons.
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So instead of me saying, unfortunately, Holly, I can't do that for you. It's against policy.
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Instead, we look at it from the customer's perspective, which is, unfortunately, Holly,
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to protect you as well as to protect others, without authentication,
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we are unable to transfer funds between customers because we want to protect
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your funds in what you're sending,
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and what you're receiving to make sure that it is going to the right person.
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Now, in order for me to do that, here's what we can do for you to help guide
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you through how to get the thing that you are potentially wanting.
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An example of this in my own life is, as you mentioned, I am a father of five,
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and there have been many, many times where we have been escorted out of the
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hospital in a wheelchair.
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Well, I should say that differently. My wife has been escorted or wheeled out on a wheelchair.
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From a policy perspective, I'm smart enough to know that that is so that we
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can make sure that if there's an accident that befalls, if someone were to trip
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and fall, the hospital would be liable.
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My wife might stumble or medically something might be happening where she passes out.
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All kinds of horrible things could occur.
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Someone walking away with the wrong baby.
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Absolutely. Right. The most horrible things could occur. And so in one of our
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hospital stays, as we were walking out, my wife actually did say that she's fine walking out.
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And the nurse at the time said, oh, no, you are a new mother and we have a chariot
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that is awaiting for you.
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And we would like to parade you through our hospital halls like the princess
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that you are for giving birth to such a wonderful little person.
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Now, my wife had wanted to walk out. She wanted to walk out.
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And now you bet wanted to ride in that chariot, princess waving as she passed people.
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Putting our child in the sky like Mufasa does or like Rafiki does in The Lion
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King with Symba's birth, announcing to the animals of this wonderful arrival.
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So same activity, but not cornered in our policy is really it's here's why we
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can't with whatever we can share, because I don't want you also to,
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you know, betray competences, et cetera.
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But just reframing that just changes the whole paradigm about how people think
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about what you're telling them.
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It no longer becomes a no. It becomes a, oh, here's why and what we can do if
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you have a different answer you'd like.
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Wow. That is a beautiful example. Yeah.
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If we think about those relationship opportunities, people buy your products
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because of what it does and how it makes their life easier.
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That's how people interact with your products and your functionality.
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We refer to these moments where
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someone does find some particular point of friction as a moment of truth.
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That's kind of the phrase that we use in the service world. And these moments
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of truth are very rare and very few in between.
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And people talk about them, both good or ill. and
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so this is not only affects your interactions with
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the person themselves but how they feel about
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your broader business marketing implications it goes on
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and on and on and on and these effects of these activities reverberate through
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multiple areas of someone's purchasing life cycle you know so many pediatricians
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are really good at this but but find that almost it's like a magical moment
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It can turn something in that is the policy to do,
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but turn it into a childlike or something that families can relate to that could be pretty magical.
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I've had a similar experience with a cast removal, and the individual that was
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removing the cast actually turned to my son and said, this is kind of loud.
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Let's see if we can sing louder than this tool will be.
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And so my son geared up to sing his lungs out as this cast was removed.
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And it didn't change what the doctor had done. It didn't change any of the activities
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as to what was happening.
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But my son thought it was exceptionally funny that he was trying to sing louder
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than this vibrating implement was going.
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And it just turned it into a very different experience.
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I love that. That's just such a wonderful example.
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When you're talking about knowing the person in front of you,
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how important is saying the name and then what if...
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Especially with staff? It's not done as often because maybe they're afraid of
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getting the name wrong, which would be bad. Or do you have any advice there?
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Yeah. So what we have found is, if you look at the research,
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people do love to hear the sound of their own name. Absolutely.
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It is one, if I say, Holly, even the sound of your own name sparks something inside of you.
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And so I would say use it if you feel comfortable using it.
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I try to, in all of our customer service experiences. We try to make sure that
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we at least say it one time so that we can acknowledge or make sure there's that connection.
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And as you can imagine, since we are a global company, we are servicing in multiple
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languages across multiple countries, dealing with every name.
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Ethnicity, race, gender you can imagine.
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And there is no harm or foul in asking someone how to pronounce their name.
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In fact, we do it quite frequently where we can ask and say just in an honest
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approach, I'm unsure how to pronounce your name.
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Would you mind saying it for me one time so that I can get the proper pronunciation?
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Or you might say, I see your name is Holly. Have I said that correctly?
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And people will correct you if needed, and they will do so very kindly if you
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approach it from that same kindness or perspective.
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People with difficult names, especially where that name is not ubiquitous across
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the culture, or maybe it's very unique to them, they know what their name is
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and they deal with this all the time globally.
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So just face it up front. In this case, we are back to clear is kind.
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And by saying to someone, I'm unsure about how to approach this, do I have this right?
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Or would you mind saying it one time so I can get it the correct way?
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People will lean into that. They will gravitate towards and be very thankful
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that you took the opportunity.
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That's a great example. And in fact, you had an experience where your youngest
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daughter who has special needs needed a catheter.
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I'm happy to share that story. So we went in, my wife and I,
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if you recall what we said before about my five children, And whenever my darling
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daughter has to be admitted to the hospital for any reason, we have to,
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as a family, divide and conquer.
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And we then work in shifts and we're navigating children to various recreational
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activities and home and in bed for dinner and all the things that you need to do.
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So we had gone through one of these changes where my wife, I was taking the
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evening shift and my wife was going home to get some self-time and take a shower
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and all the things that she needed to do.
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So I walked in the room right after the shift change and the nurse came in and
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said, oh, we need to get a urine sample.
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And are you okay if we come in and do a cath? And I said, certainly not a problem.
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And so as I'm sitting there, six nurses descended up in the room and they then
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are getting the cath that they need done. And they are literally holding my
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daughter down. Who's wailing at the top of her lungs.
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This is, it's a terrifying experience. It's horrible. And I'm sitting there
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watching it going, oh my goodness, I hope this isn't how it always works.
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And they were able to get the cath done and get everything taken care of.
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And I'm now over soothing my daughter and finally get her calmed down.
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And we were finished for that particular event.
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And after about an hour or so, my wife calls and said, how are things going?
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I said, they're going great, except for we had to do this cath.
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That was nightmarish. And Shannon said, what?
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And I said, oh, yeah, they came in and took a cath. Then she said,
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well, why didn't you just do it? And I said, well, nobody asked.
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No one had taken the time to stop and say, hey, we need to take this urine sample.
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How do you guys usually do this at home? And my response would have been,
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oh, we straight cath Dylan all the time.
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And if you need me to cath her into a bag so we can get her measurements,
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happy to do that. We've been to the hospital multiple times.
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We know exactly what needs to happen.
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And it would have been a non-event. Now, the reason how this is so important
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is the next time that same nurse came in, Dylan had a reaction of,
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oh, my goodness, this is going to happen again.
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And it took us three or four nurse changes before Dylan got back to the,
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oh, they're not going to strap me back down again,
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trying to do this because dad and mom can do it with no impact at all.
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So had somebody just taken one minute
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to say hey here's what we need do you
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guys have you done this how is this normally done with your family
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we would have been able to answer and the response would
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have been oh no brainer okay do that thing i'll be back in two minutes make
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sure you captain this bag so i can get a measurement we'd say great done this
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a hundred times that's a great example of listening and also reading the room
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and really asking some more questions so that you can be clear, which is kind.
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Yeah. Again, know me, understand my problem and solve my problem.
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Let's solve the problem.
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I'm talking to Matthew Anderson here on Pediatrics Now.
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He's the vice president for customer service for PayPal and Venmo.
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And we're talking about what can we learn about customer service in medicine
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from the principles utilized by PayPal and Venmo.
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You're listening to Pediatrics Now, sponsored by CPAN, No Call Too Small,
24:10
the Department of Pediatrics at UT Health San Antonio and University Hospital. We'll be right back.
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We're back now. I'm talking to Matthew Anderson, vice president for customer
24:23
service for PayPal and Venmo.
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We're talking about the third principle, which is solving the problem.
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What else do we need to know about doing that? Because it can be so tough as
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we're trying to figure out how to solve the problem when that patient is in the exam room.
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Yeah, absolutely. All of our businesses do the same type of activity.
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I think in the medical profession, it is a little bit harder because there is,
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when we think about solving the problem,
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sometimes we think of that as the end state solution of whatever treatment strategy
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we've determined to undertake, or we think of the end game activity that we're taking.
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When my business with my teammates, when we think about solving the problem,
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it is from the moment we understand the problem, we look across the entire spectrum
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of, well, what were the drivers? What caused the issue?
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What do we need to do to resolve it?
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How do we get that taken care of? And we have to guide the customer in many
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instances through steps that they need to undertake.
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As an example, within the PayPal and Venmo sphere, one of our main product premises
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is that we protect our customers.
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That's protecting their data. That is protecting their funds.
25:39
That is protecting their relationships, that is protecting their anonymity.
25:42
It's all the protections that our products and services offer.
25:46
So when a customer calls and says that they want to do something.
25:50
Oftentimes we might need them to actually send us something or share some additional information.
25:55
And as we walk someone through, it might be very easy for us to say,
25:59
oh, simply take a copy of your driver's license and text it to this number.
26:04
That's the transactional activity.
26:07
The same action, if we to say, we need to validate your identity.
26:12
We can do that through a couple of ways. If you have your driver's license and
26:17
cell phone handy, we can do it through that mechanism.
26:19
If that is not convenient for you, we do have other options available.
26:24
And we're guiding the customer through the process. And sometimes it's through
26:28
the diagnostic process.
26:29
Sometimes it's through the activity process.
26:33
And in the hospital setting, I can think of this in kind of an analogous way.
26:38
Recognize that when we as hospital patients or patrons are in the hospital,
26:46
the solution for us is not just the, we need to give this medicine to run its
26:51
course so that we can then take labs again tomorrow to then evaluate whether
26:56
or not you can be discharged.
26:58
The problem that we're solving is, and I know your nursing staff knows this
27:02
very well, we are working on your comfort. We are working on your care.
27:07
We're working on making sure that the parents are also feeling well,
27:10
that the patients are feeling well.
27:12
The problem is not just the dose of medicine that needs to run its course.
27:16
Solving the problem is helping the customer navigate the activities that need
27:20
to occur and helping keeping them in the loop and bringing them along that journey.
27:26
And in many cases it's helping them do it in a way that is convenient for them
27:30
or can be convenient for your business if there's things that they can do to help.
27:35
One example of that that we leverage in my family is whenever we go to the hospital
27:40
now, we actually have a laminated sheet.
27:42
We laminated it because we were using it so frequently of all of my daughter's
27:47
medicines, all the things that she's allergic to, the precautions that we have
27:51
on her, the surgeries by date that are listed.
27:55
So whenever we get in with the doctor in that conversation, we can kind of hand them the cheat sheet.
28:00
They glance over what that's there and say, okay, got it. Now I know.
28:04
And we can start to talk. So we can, we just have found that for us,
28:07
that's a way to navigate the solve my problem in a way that makes it easy for
28:11
us and easy for the doctor.
28:13
I'm not advertising that, you
28:15
know, everybody needs to do that with their children's medical history.
28:18
But for us, that is a way that we made it so that it's easy to not only solve
28:23
the actual root cause of the problem, but all the surrounding stuff that does
28:27
also inhabit the problem itself.
28:30
As another example of this, when in my business,
28:33
when a customer calls in and we initially take that phone contact or chat,
28:40
whatever that issue is, my teammates go in and they try to rapidly not only
28:46
know and understand who Holly is, what do we know about her?
28:50
You know, she's obviously a working mom, has children, all the wonderful things about you.
28:56
But we also then start to look at your account and say, what things might be
29:00
happening in your environment that might be causing or be related to this problem
29:05
that you're about to share with me?
29:07
That's understanding the problem. And then when you start to share the actual
29:11
problem itself, I can look and say, oh, in addition to the problem that you
29:15
are sharing, there might be some adjacency here or some things that might not
29:20
look related, but are related.
29:21
And how can we work together to help you navigate through this activity as simply as possible?
29:28
Because your time is valuable. Our time is valuable. And we want to make sure
29:32
that you have the best experience that you can so that you can get on and do
29:35
the things that matter most to you.
29:39
How important is it to be on time? I know in medicine, it's a frenetic pace,
29:44
and our pediatric practitioner listeners, a lot of them are seeing 40 patients a day.
29:51
Obviously, we can't always be on time. They're doing so much and taking care of patients.
29:57
But what do you advise there? And if you are running late, what should happen?
30:03
Great question. So in my business, one of the ways that we try to keep everything
30:09
moving, ultimately, you are absolutely right.
30:12
Time is money for both of our businesses from just a fiduciary responsibility
30:17
for running and managing a business.
30:20
For our patients and customers, their time is important. Remember the Nomi principle.
30:25
Their time is important as well. They've arranged things on a schedule to be
30:29
there to the best of their ability. Now, I know that patients are going to run behind.
30:34
But also life just gets in the way. And let's acknowledge that life does get
30:38
in the way and we know that there's going to be some variability in those interactions.
30:42
So for us as an example, in my world, we do have kind of target times that we
30:48
would like all phone calls to kind of be resolved in.
30:51
Where needed, we take more time where necessary.
30:54
And oftentimes when we have an opportunity to end something early, we try to do so.
30:58
But we do have a kind of set time. And I think that parallels well with what
31:01
your pediatricians and other doctors are doing in their schedules as well.
31:05
But there's a couple of things that we try to do to help, in our case,
31:11
our teammates and our customers navigate that efficiently.
31:15
Number one is we do try to stay on time, which I think is a central tenet that we all could agree upon.
31:21
Number two, we also try to be transparent in what people can expect.
31:26
So as an example, and you've probably had this happen to you before,
31:29
when you phone a service center, They might tell you in advance,
31:33
thank you for calling, your call is important to us, the next available agent
31:38
should be with you in 3 minutes,
31:40
or 60 seconds, or your wait time is 15 minutes.
31:44
So setting that expectation up front helps
31:48
the person adjust to what to expect if
31:51
you don't say that in my world after 90 seconds after 90 seconds for each additional
31:58
10 seconds that someone waits their ire their anger their angst builds every
32:04
10 seconds so for us setting that expectation is a critical component, number one.
32:10
Number two, inside the conversation, if we have a customer who might want to
32:16
tell us a lengthy story or might be droning on about something that's not related,
32:20
with the relationship care principles in mind, we do often remind our customers.
32:26
Unfortunately, Holly, thank you for sharing this story with me so far.
32:31
I've only got a minute or so left,
32:35
that I can share with you in this context, I have a couple more questions.
32:40
Can we jump to that? And setting that expectation within the conversation also helps.
32:45
I've had this happen with doctors before in offices where the pediatrician has
32:50
walked in and said, I'm sorry, we were running very late behind.
32:54
It's so good to see you and your family again. I only have six minutes that
32:59
I can spend with you today. I would love to spend more, but I'm unable to.
33:03
What brings you in today?
33:05
And just that acknowledgement that we are important, but there is some concern
33:11
and some time constraints help us jump directly to the case.
33:15
Now, will that solve all problems in every event? No.
33:18
But setting that expectation up front with customers when they enter your facility
33:22
and doctors or nurses setting that expectation with patients as to what is going
33:27
to happen or needs to happen or can happen will also go a long way.
33:32
And that way, I think you could trim off the ones that shouldn't be taking that
33:36
much time, but unfortunately do, as well as the ones you could speed up.
33:40
I would happen to love if my doctor came in and said, I got six minutes with
33:43
you. Tell me what's busted. Fix it. Walk out the door.
33:46
I'm not a big need a lot of chatter kind of guy. I'm there for a purpose. Get me in, get me out.
33:52
What about when it seems like it's easy to say, well, she's busy with other
33:57
patients or sorry, I was busy with other customers. But as the patient or customer,
34:02
it doesn't really feel great.
34:04
Like, OK, yes, but aren't I a customer, too?
34:08
Kind of any advice there of what to like if you say that, add on to it and say
34:14
something about the person in front of you and acknowledge how important it is that customer, too.
34:21
If someone came in to me from the office staff and said, oh,
34:25
the doctor is running behind today, it might be a few minutes.
34:28
Suddenly now you've taken and said, basically, our process is inefficient,
34:33
therefore you have to suffer.
34:34
I don't like the way that that's positioned. A better positioning might be to
34:38
say something like, as you know, we try to make sure that we provide the best care possible.
34:44
Are right now our doctor is assisting someone else and taking a few extra minutes
34:51
to help them navigate through a difficult problem or time.
34:54
We know your time is important to us.
34:57
We can spend the same amount of time making sure that you are cared for in the same way.
35:01
Or you could also say, unfortunately, we are, again, setting the expectation.
35:09
It's taking longer than we anticipated. you are
35:12
critical to us are there things that we
35:14
could do with you to help accelerate while you
35:17
are here the process of getting you through and maybe that's filling out the
35:23
form or gathering some information where you can or helping you get prepared
35:28
whatever that case might be to help it make it so that it is not our process
35:33
is failing but more hey we want to invest the right time in the right spaces.
35:38
How can we help you get the benefit of that same activity or outcome?
35:43
There's probably a very much more eloquent way to say those things,
35:46
but that's the way that I would look to position it.
35:48
Not that, hey, we're suffering, but hey, your time is important to us as well.
35:53
We want to acknowledge that you are waiting.
35:55
And how can we help you get through this process in a more efficient and effective
36:00
way when it does become your turn to spend some time with us?
36:04
How bad is it even so say it's on the phone
36:07
or something so that even the person may not see it but for a team member to
36:13
roll his or her eyes oh actually you cannot see that on the phone but after
36:19
many years of that i can hear it i know that i know that it does happen,
36:25
yeah that's that's an area where as human beings as you i'm sure you know our
36:32
non-verbal cues are often more important than our verbal cues.
36:36
And I think that that's the type of behavior that when I catch a teammate on
36:41
my side doing it, that is a place where Claire is very kind,
36:45
where we go in and we make sure that we correct that behavior.
36:48
We exist to take care of customers. That's why we are in the fields that we
36:52
have chosen to be in. That's why we're doing the things that we are doing.
36:56
And the moment that we are able to undertake that responsibility seriously,
37:02
that we are there to care for the people that we service.
37:06
This is why I don't refer to my teammates, for example, as agents.
37:10
Because that dehumanizes the agent. They are teammates.
37:14
They are part of my team. If I could, I would answer every phone call of my
37:18
customer and give them the most expert care that I could.
37:21
I cannot answer that many phone calls in a day.
37:24
So I need to find people that will provide the
37:27
same level of care that I would want provided by
37:30
me or that I would want provided to me
37:34
by these individuals that i partner with to provide that service so in the office
37:40
if i if i were to catch someone doing that yeah we have we we do hold people
37:45
accountable to those types of activities and i would counsel people just to
37:49
watch each other for that and if they do it inadvertently,
37:53
or whatever the opposite of inadvertent would be vertically i don't know what
37:57
that opposite would be but whatever they do that they that we would give that
38:02
feedback to say please don't do that this mom is here.
38:06
You don't know if she had to take off work to get here. You don't know if she's
38:10
going through a messy divorce and this is painful for her to be here.
38:14
We don't know if this is bringing back past issues or problems that she's been with.
38:19
Have compassion with the human being that's at the other side of this transaction
38:23
and help them feel welcome and appreciated and cared for.
38:26
And when you're working side by side with people and you can share a frustration,
38:31
that's one thing, but to roll eyes and, and how terrible also even worse if
38:37
the patient sees that it just makes you feel awful.
38:40
Oh yes. Do, do that. And by the way, I'm a big fan of, I'm a big fan of rolling eyes.
38:45
I'm a big fan of snarky comments. I'm a big fan of all of those types of things,
38:51
in the privacy of my own home with the, with the appropriate audience where
38:55
I can share my personal frustrations as a human, not ever a frustration against an individual.
39:03
And that to me is where the difference is. It's okay to be frustrated,
39:06
but always remember, I always love when people are so angry and they say, oh, traffic is so bad.
39:13
Always remember, you are not impacted by traffic. You are traffic.
39:20
You are as much of the problem as everybody else is on the road.
39:24
Right. That's a good point.
39:26
So you're not in traffic. You are traffic.
39:30
Bear that in mind. That's a really great point.
39:35
One thing that I, there's so many things I love about the pediatric world and
39:39
pediatricians are just in general so nice.
39:43
And then it might be really hard to, if you see or hear about an employee doing something like that.
39:51
Have that confrontation. But what I'm hearing is it's really worth it.
39:55
Oh, absolutely. Think of the time, effort, and energy that you've culminated
40:00
in getting that patient there, to have them be a patient, to want to come back
40:05
and have that care. I will say this definitively.
40:08
We have had pediatricians that we have invited to special family events.
40:13
Birthday parties, church activities that we have gone to.
40:18
We love the care professionals that have cared for us.
40:23
And we consider them part of our broader, if you will, part of the inside family
40:28
for the work that they've done in caring for our daughter especially.
40:31
So I would hope that your pediatricians and staff know that there are nurses
40:37
we know by name that we send cards to.
40:40
And every time we go to a hospital, we take them brownies.
40:44
And at Christmas, they brought us fudge. I mean, it's those types of relationships
40:48
go an exceptionally long way.
40:49
And I'm not saying that has to be with every care professional that's out there,
40:52
but that's the impact that medical professionals have on people's lives.
40:57
We're bringing probably the most important people in our lives to your hands
41:02
to say, help me make this better.
41:06
Help me care for this person that is the most important person to me.
41:09
Help me. And I'm trusting you to do so. And when you look at it with that lens,
41:14
rolling eyes then becomes almost insulting to you as an individual,
41:18
because then it's about you and not about them.
41:21
That's right. I think that that is really wonderful advice.
41:27
And I think, Matthew, you have such a unique perspective with having five kids,
41:31
a daughter with special needs, and being the vice president for customer service
41:35
at PayPal and Venmo and having all of this.
41:38
About a complaint being a golden opportunity.
41:44
And I love the quote that,
41:47
In medicine, we're often caring for people in their darkest, most vulnerable hour.
41:53
So nowhere in the service industry is it more important to treat someone than
41:57
kindness, love, and respect every step of the way. Absolutely.
42:03
So do you have any advice on handling a complaint because it's easy to get defensive
42:09
and also handling a conflict?
42:14
A couple of principles that I try to introduce and we live by within our team,
42:19
which is, to your point, complaints are a golden opportunity.
42:22
And I always look at them as, in fact, on my teammates' desktop around the globe,
42:28
I installed or had installed a button that sits in the bottom right-hand corner
42:31
of every screen that my teammates touch. Every single one.
42:35
And if at any time a customer voices frustration or the teammate feels as though
42:41
there's some friction within the process or in combination of those two there's
42:47
something that we feel is wrong,
42:49
our teammate can click that button and register that as a point of friction
42:52
in addition to that we listen to all complaints that come in from customers
42:57
whether that's through letters or through bureaus that sit outside or they leave
43:02
us feedback in through anonymous or name sources,
43:05
if they post something on X, if they post something on Facebook,
43:09
we listen to all of those.
43:11
We actually hunt and mine for those opportunities.
43:14
We are constantly looking for those places and areas of complaint because that
43:20
is a place where someone is saying, hey, your process in whatever way,
43:25
shape or form has failed me.
43:26
Now notice, Holly, that I said process.
43:29
In a former life, I was what's referred to as a Six Sigma master black belt.
43:33
That is a process reengineering specialist that is specifically designed and
43:37
focused on modifying processes.
43:40
And one of the base principles of that activity is you never blame the person. You blame the process.
43:47
Because it's the process that we've established that allows us to then modify.
43:52
Human behavior is very, very difficult to influence. And if you disagree with
43:56
me, have a 14-year-old that doesn't want to take the garbage out.
44:01
You will realize very quickly, the limits of your power.
44:07
So trying to get someone to change behavior is really difficult,
44:10
but helping them navigate through a process is fairly simple.
44:14
Meaning that if you've got somebody who raises a complaint or a concern,
44:18
number one, acknowledge that that has occurred, recognize that they do have
44:23
a voice and that they're not, they're acknowledging something has not worked for them.
44:27
Now, oftentimes we might say, but that thing was written down.
44:30
The speed limit sign was clearly posted on the side of the road.
44:34
It's clearly there. So people keep speeding through this intersection.
44:38
Why are they not fixing this? It is posted. They should know better.
44:41
In my opinion, that's still a failure on my part as a city planner about the
44:47
way that I've designed the street.
44:48
So I would start to ask myself, are there better ways that I could modify the
44:53
process to make people slow down through this intersection or through this area?
44:57
And we experience this all the times in our lives. We have places where they've
45:02
painted the lines differently on the road.
45:03
Or they might put some bollards up on one side to make traffic kind of condense and slow.
45:09
They might put in a stop sign or a speed bump, something that modifies the behavior
45:15
intentionally to help people navigate through the process.
45:19
So whenever I look at a complaint for me, it rarely is against a person.
45:24
In fact, on rare occasion, is it actually behavioral that I need to address
45:28
unless it truly is behavioral.
45:30
And in all other cases what we try to do is look at the process what's not working
45:35
in the process what's not working in the documentation we put together what's not working in the.
45:40
Feedback mechanisms that we're providing to people some of
45:43
those as an example if you're having a hard time in the office going through
45:46
and giving feedback to people directly because they don't feel comfortable in
45:50
businesses i've seen them do anonymous feedback sessions where it's more about
45:55
hey here's one thing you're doing well and one thing that you look to that you
45:59
could improve on and then posting those up for everyone to see,
46:02
not by name, but in general, like this is what our team is working on collectively
46:05
to help each other navigate through.
46:07
So there's books and books upon how to kind of give appropriate feedback and coaching,
46:13
but I would admonish you all that complaints need to become your very,
46:17
very best friends because that is a wonderful place that people are telling
46:22
you, here's a place that I am not getting what I need in the best possible way from you.
46:29
How can we make it better? And the best part about this, Holly,
46:32
is if you fix it right, that complaint will never, ever show up again.
46:38
And suddenly now you have a comparative advantage to anybody who's still fighting
46:42
with that complaint activity.
46:45
And so really say to the staff and really think about that, this complaint is a golden opportunity.
46:51
Absolutely. Embrace them, love them, cherish them, celebrate them.
46:56
Matthew Anderson, the Vice President of Customer Service for PayPal and Venmo.
47:01
Coming up next week, we will talk about conflict resolution and the fourth principle.
47:08
Pediatrics Now is brought to you by University Health and the Department of
47:13
Pediatrics at UT Health San Antonio.
47:15
Don't forget to click on the link in this podcast for free credit that may include
47:19
CME, MOC, or ethics credit, depending on our topic or podcast.
47:24
And Matthew, I'm looking forward to hearing more next week. Thank you so much
47:29
for being on Pediatrics Now. Thank you so much.