Latest / For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast / #321 - For Azeroth!: “Diluting Delves”

Transcript

#321 - For Azeroth!: “Diluting Delves” · For Azeroth!: A World of Warcraft Podcast

• 0:00
  At the very least, if we're going to say we have given solo
• 0:03
  players end game content, that end game content cannot be at
• 0:07
  the level that multi like group players begin, You know what I'm
• 0:11
  saying? It's not that's not end game
• 0:14
  content, that's mid game content like that's beginning of the
• 0:17
  game content. Victory for the Forsaken.
• 0:20
  For Lauderon. For the Karen Tour for Pandaria.
• 0:28
  For calendar. To the burning region for
• 0:33
  Gilnaeus or has not died, for the Lich King, for the Sindori,
• 0:41
  for the Alliance, for the Horde, for Azeroth.
• 0:47
  Hello and welcome back to another episode of For Azeroth.
• 0:50
  I am one of your hosts, the true villain, Manny, or just Manny.
• 0:54
  And I am joined by Lex. Lex, how are you doing?
• 0:59
  Good, Manny, I'm popping right along.
• 1:01
  We got to Gaslo on normal, my raid team did last week, which
• 1:07
  is very exciting, very fun. And then Gaslo is more
• 1:11
  complicated. So we did the entire raid normal
• 1:13
  blind and then Gaslo. A little RAID normal.
• 1:17
  Yeah, we didn't do like enforced blindness, which is what we
• 1:22
  like. Historically when we've done
• 1:23
  blind bosses, it's been like, you cannot tell us anything you
• 1:26
  saw in Race to World First. You cannot do any.
• 1:28
  Like you can't look at anything that's not we're going to be
• 1:30
  fully blind. Because we weren't really
• 1:33
  expecting to do normal blind. And it was more of like on the
• 1:35
  1st pull of the first boss, we were like, let's just go for it,
• 1:38
  let's just see what happens. And then we kind of continued
• 1:40
  zooming through and just realized we were having a good
• 1:44
  time. We didn't do enforced blindness.
• 1:47
  So somebody could be like, oh, I think I remember Liquid doing
• 1:50
  XYZ Strat. So we did have some guidance
• 1:53
  there, but it was really fun. And we think that's probably
• 1:57
  going to be our move in the future is doing normal blind and
• 2:01
  then watching videos and getting prepped before heroic.
• 2:03
  And to be fair, my team also does prepping a little bit
• 2:06
  differently. So we kind of realized that
• 2:07
  nobody was actually prepping before bosses.
• 2:10
  So what we do know, well we were like, let's just lean into it.
• 2:14
  So now before bosses, we just take a like 5 minute break and
• 2:19
  everyone watches a video. And then we all know we watched
• 2:21
  the same video. Everyone watched a video because
• 2:23
  we gave them a time to do it. And then we come back and we
• 2:26
  talked about it and it has worked so much better.
• 2:29
  Like when we were telling people like, Yep, make sure you study,
• 2:31
  do the strats, watch the videos, use the videos we expect you to
• 2:34
  watch. We would spend so much time
• 2:36
  explaining Strat and nobody would get it and it would just
• 2:38
  like nobody was doing the work or at least half the team wasn't
• 2:41
  doing the work. And once we kind of stopped
• 2:43
  trying to fight that and trying to make it a big deal, like you
• 2:46
  guys didn't watch the videos, you didn't prep, you clearly
• 2:48
  don't know what's going on. And instead just kind of leaned
• 2:50
  into it and allowed the, you know, learning the bosses to
• 2:54
  happen during raid time. We started moving so much faster
• 2:57
  and people were having more fun. OK, I mean that there's a
• 3:02
  question about like what do you do when people aren't reading
• 3:05
  the strats? Like it's, it's something that
• 3:07
  comes up more in the the more casual teams, people who will
• 3:13
  like literally raid log period, no prep whatsoever when going
• 3:22
  way back in time to like for Azeroth, maybe in and around the
• 3:30
  100th episode, one thing that we did in our raid group was that
• 3:38
  we would explain the strats, but the strats were based on, you
• 3:42
  know what these are. So we wouldn't explain what it
• 3:44
  did. We just explained what we would
• 3:46
  do with it. And then we would pull and there
• 3:48
  would be no explaining what does what does that do?
• 3:51
  It was just a OK, so tanks, tanks stack on the tanks for the
• 4:00
  the blast. Make sure you taunt afterwards.
• 4:03
  We're going to drop the the bombs off to here.
• 4:06
  Three people, three people in each of the things only only
• 4:12
  Joss is going to take it to the consoles and and then it's like,
• 4:16
  OK, if you know the fight for for Galliwicks, that makes
• 4:22
  sense. If you don't, you're utterly
• 4:24
  lost and we are not going to explain explain it to you.
• 4:27
  And then with the enforcement, it would be for like, let's say
• 4:32
  gearing and enchanting and stuff.
• 4:33
  We'd be like, OK, make gearing enchant you.
• 4:38
  You can do it during break. Otherwise, just do it after the
• 4:41
  raid. We're not stopping in between
• 4:45
  the poles and we never had to like drop somebody, but there
• 4:51
  would be times where we'd be like, they'd be like, hey,
• 4:54
  where's the invite? Like, oh, I thought you were
• 4:56
  taking the time to jam an enchant because you didn't do
• 4:59
  that last time, right? And it'd be like notice.
• 5:01
  And then it's like, hey, like, don't make me inspect you before
• 5:04
  you join again. And, and I guess we were just
• 5:09
  more hard line with that. But like once we did that, we
• 5:11
  just started pulling. Like it was just like everybody
• 5:14
  knew to show up before before and have that, that sort of
• 5:16
  stuff. And everybody's went through.
• 5:18
  And I think there's friction in both ways.
• 5:21
  If you push that, the people who are like, I just genuinely don't
• 5:24
  have the time for that or I generally don't want to do that
• 5:27
  sort of stuff, They're going to drop off.
• 5:28
  If you go my way. If you go your way, I can see
• 5:32
  the frustration of the people who are like, I want to do the
• 5:34
  homework. I want to get all this stuff
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  ready. Getting annoyed when it's like I
• 5:40
  have to sit there and watch a video that I've already watched
• 5:42
  like two or three times or I've seen like how many different
• 5:47
  strategies. And that's when I think the
• 5:50
  worst thing I've that I hate in raids is when the non raid lead
• 5:56
  knows better and starts like chiming in and oh, oh, that's
• 6:01
  what I that's the stuff I want to shut down real quick.
• 6:04
  It's like you're not the raid lead.
• 6:05
  If you've got any kind of advice or suggestions, feel free to
• 6:11
  propose those when we ask for it or at the end of the night.
• 6:18
  But like, yeah, it's very strange.
• 6:20
  It depends on where where things are going.
• 6:23
  But your team is one night a week you guys go through and and
• 6:26
  raid. So it's already very much geared
• 6:28
  to like, like, hey, we're just here to have fun and socialize
• 6:31
  and get through this content as we get through it, right?
• 6:33
  And it's Week 2 as well. Yeah, we, we heavily prioritize
• 6:36
  community. The point of our raid is that we
• 6:39
  are there to I mean, the point of the raid is to raid
• 6:41
  obviously, and nobody has fun. If no like if we make no
• 6:44
  progress, right, we still want to continue moving forward, but
• 6:48
  we are there because we want to play together as a community and
• 6:52
  we want to have fun together. I want to say probably like over
• 6:56
  half of the raid team has is have kids of some kind.
• 7:01
  We all the the the point of Timbermont Tavern is that we are
• 7:06
  all busy adults who want to play video games together and we want
• 7:10
  to balance both the fact that like respecting the time that
• 7:13
  people put in so that Ray doesn't feel like a huge
• 7:16
  terrible slog to the people who worked really hard and also
• 7:19
  respecting the fact that we are adults in this is a video game,
• 7:22
  which to be fair, is not remotely disrespectful.
• 7:24
  Like I, I don't mean that snarkily towards the people who
• 7:26
  are like, yeah, this is a video game that I work really hard in
• 7:29
  and that I care deeply about and I do a ton of Labor to make it
• 7:32
  so that I'm the successful and the joy of the game is that we
• 7:35
  are driving. But you know, it's, it's a lot
• 7:39
  for the people who are like, Oh yeah, like I really can't do
• 7:42
  significantly more than raid logging because I have kids and
• 7:45
  like I, we have single parents in the raid and we have people
• 7:48
  like, with dealing with really big life stuff.
• 7:51
  And we have, we have people just with like, you know, reasons
• 7:54
  that they just don't want to do any more than raid log.
• 7:57
  Most of us early in the season especially, we do push a lot
• 7:59
  more gearing and things like that.
• 8:00
  But you things happen and and life happens and and do we do I
• 8:05
  we do talk about that conflict a lot because we do also have some
• 8:08
  really high level raters in the team.
• 8:11
  And we want to make sure that they don't get bored and that
• 8:13
  they aren't feeling disrespected and they aren't feeling like the
• 8:15
  time they're putting into M Plus and rating on their own and, you
• 8:20
  know, prepping and doing everything feels forgotten.
• 8:25
  But what I think we've mostly found at this point is that the
• 8:28
  people there are certainly some people who have left the team
• 8:31
  because they were like, listen, I just want to keep pushing.
• 8:33
  And that's fair, right? We're not for everyone.
• 8:35
  We're a, you know, a small team. We're there for, like, the
• 8:38
  people who want to be there should be there.
• 8:39
  The people who aren't there, like, we love to have you in the
• 8:41
  community however we can. But the people who stay with the
• 8:45
  team are there because they genuinely want to be with the
• 8:47
  team and they're OK taking a few extra days and they're OK, you
• 8:51
  know, pushing heroic on their own time if they would like to
• 8:54
  push. And then playing with us during,
• 8:57
  you know, during the the time that we do play.
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  Because the point to them is also that they want to come and
• 9:01
  hang out with the group and they want to have fun with us and
• 9:03
  they would rather move slowly with Timbermont Tavern then move
• 9:07
  quickly with another Guild. And we've also had some people
• 9:10
  leave and come back, which we like.
• 9:11
  We love to see it when they come back.
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  And we also those of you who don't leave and who leave and
• 9:15
  leave, we also love and are cheering you guys on.
• 9:17
  Like you guys are doing incredible things.
• 9:19
  And we're so proud of you and we're so impressed with
• 9:21
  everything that everything that comes out of the team and in a
• 9:24
  million different ways. So we love our team and we also
• 9:26
  love our community as a whole. And I think that it's important
• 9:29
  that people are able to play the game.
• 9:30
  They want to play the game. OK, So then overall, how are you
• 9:39
  liking the Undermine patch so far?
• 9:42
  You've had, we're now in our third, sorry, third week of the
• 9:46
  patch, second week of raiding, right?
• 9:51
  What are, what's your overall impressions thus far?
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  How's it landed versus like I guess your first impressions?
• 9:57
  I love the raid, I'm having a ton of fun.
• 10:02
  I think it's cute, I think it's exciting.
• 10:04
  I think all of the characters are unique while also cohesive.
• 10:08
  I think the mechanics are all reasonable.
• 10:10
  There's no boss that I feel like is this is just such a like
• 10:12
  terrible slog and it's just so tough.
• 10:15
  But also I don't feel like any of the bosses are just like face
• 10:18
  roll ignore everything, who cares?
• 10:20
  Like everything. I think at least on I mean
• 10:23
  normal is tuned pretty well and makes sense and it's reasonable
• 10:26
  and fair. I have been having a, I have
• 10:32
  kind of opposite issues right now with Mythic like M Plus and
• 10:36
  with Delves where I feel like delves are under tuned to the
• 10:41
  point when, and I've complained about this on this podcast
• 10:43
  before, that I feel like I finished what I like.
• 10:46
  I finished delves really early and that was a little bit
• 10:49
  frustrating for me. M Plus, I've been having a lot
• 10:53
  of trouble so far and part of that because I'm a new tank,
• 10:56
  part of that because it's early in the season so nobody really
• 10:58
  noticed the mechanics. Part of that is because I
• 11:00
  started on operation Floodgate, which if you haven't started
• 11:03
  Mythic and plus yet, don't start on operation floodgate.
• 11:07
  It's hard. That took us, I think close to
• 11:10
  two hours. It was a really, really rough
• 11:12
  like it was a like the type of mythic where I logged off and I
• 11:16
  was like, am I not capable of tanking?
• 11:19
  Like is this something I should just never try again?
• 11:21
  Like I am I just bad. So so far I haven't really like
• 11:27
  I. I've had fun in M plus because
• 11:29
  I've been with my friends, but realistically if I didn't have
• 11:33
  to do any M Plus this season I probably wouldn't be heartfrog
• 11:36
  man. The story hasn't necessarily
• 11:42
  hooked me on a deep level. I actually haven't even finished
• 11:44
  the main storyline. Well, then Nope, Nope.
• 11:49
  I, I refuse. Like, OK, yeah.
• 11:51
  That's Vali. That's super.
• 11:51
  Valiant. I think that.
• 11:53
  I think that it's fine to say that in the initial part you
• 11:59
  don't feel incredibly hooked, but how far are you into it
• 12:03
  though? I got to the Kaja mines, the
• 12:06
  Kaja coast. OK, so you're only part way.
• 12:11
  So has Galliwick's needed convincing?
• 12:14
  Like where it's like there's a pause where it's like, I got to
• 12:17
  convince Gaslow. Sorry Gaslow, I got to convince.
• 12:20
  OK, so you're part way through like the first week stuff.
• 12:24
  Yeah, right. Yeah, I think that it's
• 12:27
  basically broken into three parts, so not going into
• 12:30
  spoilers. There is Part 1 where it's like,
• 12:32
  what the Hell's going on? How did Galliwick's wrestle
• 12:40
  everything and take over? And then the second part is
• 12:44
  like, OK, let's fight back, right?
• 12:48
  That leads into the raid, and then there's an epilogue after
• 12:51
  the raid. I think that the main emotional
• 12:55
  thrust is in Part 2. OK, right.
• 12:59
  And then yeah. And then the epilogue is more
• 13:02
  funny stuff, but also like a good epilogue with one part
• 13:06
  that's really tear jerking and everybody knows when I that's
• 13:10
  played it what I'm talking about.
• 13:12
  So like I would say it, it's definitely something to you
• 13:17
  should continue through. And if you got some time to play
• 13:20
  good, be like, OK, I'm going to hammer down that story.
• 13:23
  Absolutely. I think I will say not to bring
• 13:25
  up a hot topic on the friends or other podcast.
• 13:29
  I do think part of it is that we didn't have a heroic week.
• 13:31
  And so doing the story right now, every time I log in and I
• 13:34
  try to go through the story, there's a part voice in the back
• 13:37
  of my head. It's like usually getting dove
• 13:38
  keys. You should be doing it and plus
• 13:40
  you should be doing this, you should be doing that, you should
• 13:41
  be gearing. Why aren't you gearing right
• 13:43
  now? You're doing the story and
• 13:43
  that's a waste of time and it's taking you've been playing for
• 13:45
  an hour and you haven't done anything but the story.
• 13:47
  You could be, and this is probably the only hour you're
• 13:49
  playing today and you're not gearing at all.
• 13:50
  You're not gearing at all before bed.
• 13:52
  You're just going to do the story.
• 13:53
  And I think if we had that protected time where it felt
• 13:57
  more like this is the time that I can really play through the
• 13:59
  story. I mean, to be fair, might not be
• 14:02
  the point that, you know, if I wanted to play through the
• 14:04
  story, I'd set aside the time. I'm not.
• 14:05
  I think there's reasons that we wouldn't have a heroic week.
• 14:07
  But I think if we did have a heroic week, I would have played
• 14:09
  through the story. I I, I do want to say to the
• 14:13
  listeners that points Lex is reacting to my facial
• 14:17
  expressions. So I, I will my face said
• 14:22
  actually Lex and so she reacted to it.
• 14:25
  So I will say actually, Alex, heroic rate doesn't affect you
• 14:29
  or I because heroic Greek only stops mythic raid from being a
• 14:34
  factor. And because you haven't been
• 14:37
  doing much mythic plus, the effect on mythic plus is also is
• 14:42
  also addressed. So like.
• 14:43
  When when we say heroic week, are we not talking about a week
• 14:47
  where you can only do heroic dungeons?
• 14:50
  No heroic rate. It's normal raid, heroic raid
• 14:54
  Mythic is locked out. Mythic plus will usually have
• 14:58
  you like you get your keys and stuff, but there's a cap on end
• 15:01
  of dungeon rewards. And so like for all intents and
• 15:06
  purposes, well, it's just a part of the game that doesn't affect
• 15:09
  you. You're not jumping into mythic
• 15:11
  rating and so. What I want is I want what
• 15:15
  happened with the new expansion. I want there to be like a week
• 15:19
  where you can't. I think about even more than a
• 15:21
  week, but there I want there to be time.
• 15:23
  Yeah, we're all I do with. There's nothing you can do
• 15:26
  except heroic dungeons and the story and mess around and gather
• 15:30
  herbs and have a good time. That's what I want.
• 15:33
  When because the thing to be fed.
• 15:34
  You're right, you're right. But I'm being ridiculous by
• 15:36
  saying, well, you know, if there was a heroic week, if there was
• 15:38
  this protected time, I would have done it when Meanwhile I've
• 15:41
  done like 4 delves all together. So it's not like I'm actually
• 15:44
  doing other things, but The thing is, The thing is.
• 15:47
  Well, I know you're lying there. That's a hyperbole, because you
• 15:51
  already reached the 8. So in order to get from rank 3
• 15:56
  and beat that to get to the 8, you'd have to do at least five.
• 15:59
  That's true. That's true.
• 16:01
  That's true. But those don't those, those do
• 16:04
  count. I'm sorry.
• 16:04
  Those are you doing? No, you're hyperbole for
• 16:06
  somebody who's going to be pedantic and like, no, I love
• 16:09
  that and and be like, oh, Lexus play.
• 16:11
  He's like, no, no, no. Tell me out.
• 16:13
  She's she's. She's going a little.
• 16:15
  Overboard. All right, she's.
• 16:16
  Going, I love this. But The thing is what happens is
• 16:20
  I think about what I could do. I'm like, I could go in and play
• 16:23
  the story and I'm like, Oh my God.
• 16:25
  But I what I shouldn't be doing is I should be doing mythics.
• 16:27
  I should be doing doves. I should be doing this, I should
• 16:29
  be doing that. And then I feel guilty and then
• 16:31
  I don't log in at all and nobody's happy, which is
• 16:34
  Blizzard's fault and not mine. OK, I I do want to swing back
• 16:40
  around to that because there's a topic there, but yeah,
• 16:44
  unfortunately we would get discerned.
• 16:46
  Flitzer just needs to hire you a therapist, period.
• 16:48
  Everyone needs. Therapy.
• 16:49
  You'd be able to apply for therapy through Blizzard.
• 16:52
  Yeah, but like I do wish that there was additional story
• 17:03
  content because now I'm all the way all the way through and I
• 17:07
  could have been done the first week because the the first week
• 17:13
  that there was no raid available, just that initial
• 17:17
  introductory week, which which you're asking to have that
• 17:20
  extended. Yes.
• 17:21
  You couldn't go into the raid. Yeah, not for sure.
• 17:25
  You couldn't go into the raid. You could do delves.
• 17:29
  There was there was the ability for you to do the story and
• 17:35
  concentrate on the story. But Sean has said it himself
• 17:39
  that the story has no purpose for him because there's no power
• 17:42
  behind it. Unlike in previous expansions
• 17:44
  where it was like, oh, I need to unlock my ability to have a
• 17:50
  second legendary like we had back in in Zeroth Mortis or I
• 17:56
  need to like work my way through the Rep for this to unlock
• 18:00
  various stones and stuff like like we had in Shadow Lands.
• 18:04
  There's always been some competitive power that was with
• 18:09
  the story. And so you could do the story
• 18:11
  and be like, I've got to do it. And now that's gone.
• 18:14
  So now, yeah, Sean didn't touch the story after after that, I
• 18:18
  only did the story because I love the lore and I went through
• 18:21
  that and I went and collected the collected all the little
• 18:24
  storybooks so that about like ancient goblins and like what
• 18:27
  the deal was that like got different people in.
• 18:32
  But yes, that's time that I could be putting towards Mythic
• 18:35
  plus that's time I could be putting towards Dells.
• 18:40
  So I get what you're saying there in terms of my take.
• 18:45
  I had alluded to this before and I was like, I actually am really
• 18:50
  worried about the about this. The entire patch I was worried
• 18:58
  would be just a Side Story. It's like Carmen San Diego, she
• 19:04
  she's in Italy this week. And like, so we're going around
• 19:07
  Italy and now there's this henchman of hers and we got to
• 19:10
  stop the henchman, but we don't catch Carmen San Diego and the
• 19:13
  henchman's ugly forgettable. And that's what I worried
• 19:16
  Galliwicks would be. He would be this forgettable
• 19:19
  henchman that just got in, got introduced and removed in the
• 19:24
  same in the same patch. Again, we're not talking story
• 19:27
  spoilers, but they did surprise me.
• 19:32
  And so I'm I'm happy about that. The theming of the raid, the
• 19:38
  city, the enjoyable nature of this patch with like the jazz,
• 19:46
  the sweet jazz music, the slot machine slot machine boss, the
• 19:53
  the goblinness of it all. He's really well done.
• 19:58
  They managed to get that goblin zaniness, but allowed to have
• 20:03
  heart. None of it seems orderly
• 20:05
  slapstick like. I think the the most like OU
• 20:08
  goblins was when Gaslo like puts like a million explosives at the
• 20:14
  door of the Galaggio and you jump behind the the rock or
• 20:20
  whatever fortification it was to avoid the explosion when you
• 20:24
  blow up the door to get in. The rest of it feels like a
• 20:30
  story of people with a goblin twist.
• 20:34
  And I loved, I love that for it in terms of the daily things
• 20:41
  that you can do collecting scrap the, the various rares that show
• 20:49
  up and everybody like drives around for them, the drive
• 20:52
  system itself, all of those sort of dailies.
• 20:55
  I think they're OK. But I, I think that now that
• 21:00
  we're at a point where that's not mandatory, I kind of wish
• 21:07
  that they would throw story elements into it.
• 21:11
  I want my like, I feel like story can be its reward.
• 21:14
  It's going to be a big thing for me recurring guys now that
• 21:17
  people aren't forced to do this as a as a power element and like
• 21:20
  rush through it. They can they can slow it down
• 21:23
  and let us get rewarded with like these story story elements
• 21:27
  and go dive deeper into the world.
• 21:29
  I love the side quests that are in the zone.
• 21:32
  There is the one where the apartment landlord is absolutely
• 21:37
  horrible and you end up like being the hero of like that
• 21:42
  apartment complex there. There's like the wedding thing
• 21:46
  and going around and like finding the perfect wedding
• 21:49
  guests and stuff. There's a lot of small little
• 21:51
  side stories, local stories, which I think are great.
• 21:55
  And I just would like some of that to be in the main
• 22:00
  reputation stuff. I'd like to know more about the
• 22:04
  various cartels other than, yeah, we're the yellow goblins.
• 22:11
  We're the red goblins that joined the horde.
• 22:13
  We're the purple goblins that have eye patches and say, yar,
• 22:17
  sometimes we're the green goblins that like, run around to
• 22:20
  the sludge. Like, I think that I'd like for
• 22:22
  them to have taken those characters because there's like
• 22:27
  Gilma and all of those different characters that they introduce.
• 22:33
  I just, I wanted more. I've wanted more.
• 22:35
  And I think they could have put that time in.
• 22:37
  Yeah, Yeah. But the raid, the raid I have
• 22:46
  played through normal, enjoyed normal.
• 22:48
  Like I like the the concepts and stuff, like I said.
• 22:54
  But there's a big question about the balancing.
• 22:57
  And I know Sean is going to go nuts on this when he comes back.
• 23:01
  And I should say for the listeners, please give a little
• 23:05
  check in with poor Sean. He he's not feeling well and so
• 23:08
  couldn't make it the episode to today.
• 23:12
  I hope to have him back soon. But if you if you have any way
• 23:16
  of reaching out to him, just wish him well and a quick
• 23:19
  recovery. But yeah, there are content
• 23:24
  creators that are saying that this is the worst raid ever.
• 23:29
  There are content like literally worst raid ever.
• 23:33
  They they ruined it with their bad tuning.
• 23:36
  There was a liquid member who just went off about the tuning
• 23:42
  and such. And even Sean last week was
• 23:46
  saying like, oh, they need the heroic week so they can get this
• 23:48
  additional tuning and and so forth.
• 23:51
  And I have to say, race the world first problem mostly.
• 24:02
  So obviously by the time I even step into mythic, there'll be
• 24:06
  multiple waves of tuning that have gone through that have
• 24:09
  already gone through at the time of this recording and more will
• 24:12
  will be coming through. What do you think, Lex?
• 24:16
  Do you think that they they need to like push the push to have
• 24:21
  more tuning, get that heroic weekend stuff like you were
• 24:23
  saying last week? Or what's your feeling this week
• 24:26
  now that the race is officially over?
• 24:29
  So I'm not big race world first girlie, so I don't really know.
• 24:33
  I'm going to make a very uninformed statement, and I'm
• 24:35
  going to say it pretty intensely because of who I am as a person.
• 24:40
  So I'm probably wrong. The same way that I thought
• 24:42
  Heroic week meant that I got a week where I could only do
• 24:44
  heroic dungeons. I agree that like, yeah, like on
• 24:51
  the one hand, we shouldn't be catering to the top point O 1%
• 24:55
  of Raiders. That shouldn't be our number one
• 24:56
  priority. The priority should be the
• 24:59
  majority of players. That said, those really top
• 25:02
  ranks, they're the people who like, you know, the World of
• 25:05
  Warcraft is their job. And I think that there's
• 25:07
  something to respect there. Like I I think that the team
• 25:10
  should have and the team does have respect for the, you know,
• 25:13
  race world first and the really high level Raiders.
• 25:17
  So yeah, there's going to be tuning issues.
• 25:19
  And frankly, even if they had more time, they probably would
• 25:21
  like tuning issues are just going to happen.
• 25:23
  You can't really they can't do the race world first before they
• 25:26
  do the race world first, right? They're going to find things in
• 25:28
  the moment. That said, 100 pulls on a final
• 25:33
  but last name wasn't it 99 if you if.
• 25:37
  You need to know the exact numbers right?
• 25:39
  World first kill on on Galliwicks was by liquid and
• 25:45
  they did 100 pulls exactly. That's pretty cool.
• 25:50
  We love that. Echo will 2nd 49 pulls, method
• 25:57
  will 3rd 104 pulls. Like like, yeah, it's like
• 26:10
  Liquid got it first so their 100 kills is setting the bar, Liquid
• 26:13
  getting a second but doing it at half the amount of pulls feels
• 26:17
  impressive. Getting their third and then
• 26:19
  having the most pulls of everyone even though you've had
• 26:23
  all the other ones have had days ahead of you to like bat their
• 26:26
  head and like forge that path and you really are fully going
• 26:29
  to full in their footsteps. It feels bad.
• 26:32
  It also feels bad that the race was over before Method even got
• 26:36
  to the final boss. Like they were still against
• 26:40
  Mugsy when like the kill when the kill came in and hey, we've
• 26:45
  crowned first place. But like they are according to
• 26:50
  according to some, they're like just one or two tears away from
• 26:57
  really being in contention. Yeah.
• 27:00
  And so. Well, meth used to be one of the
• 27:02
  like meth. Basically my understanding of
• 27:05
  the NA race world first teams is that it was good.
• 27:08
  Yeah, method is EU. Yeah, so.
• 27:12
  What am I thinking of? I will say.
• 27:14
  Like a a schism of where like one of the groups got
• 27:17
  accusations and so like half of them broke off and became liquid
• 27:20
  and the other half stayed on. I swear to God that was.
• 27:23
  Method that that was method. They are an EU team and so yes,
• 27:28
  they were several issues that came up with method, with their
• 27:36
  leadership, with their HR, with like particular members of their
• 27:40
  rating team. And many of the method Raiders
• 27:44
  left the left the team and started up Echo.
• 27:49
  So Echo is just Method Raiders under a different banner for
• 27:54
  the. That might be too reductive, but
• 27:56
  for the most part that's true. Has has.
• 27:58
  OK I'm going to sound so stupid. Has the top NA team always been
• 28:02
  named Liquid? I swear to God that was changed
• 28:04
  so they. Used to be known as limit.
• 28:07
  They got bought by liquid and so they became like liquid limit
• 28:12
  and then they just dropped limit after a while and so now they're
• 28:15
  just liquid. OK, I think that I kind of got
• 28:17
  wires crossed where like when method was falling apart.
• 28:20
  I think that might have been around first.
• 28:21
  I'm not a race world first girlie, so that's why these
• 28:23
  wires got crossed very easily. Anyway, so now I'm caught up.
• 28:26
  Now I'm caught up, I figured out so OK, but like I I, I don't
• 28:31
  know, I and then to be I want to be so clear.
• 28:34
  I'm never going to get Gallyworks on down on mythics.
• 28:38
  So like still I mean fewer pullers that I would.
• 28:40
  Need I'm going to tell you you're wrong because we're going
• 28:43
  to go back and we're going to get you that mount the truth.
• 28:46
  One day, yeah. We're going to go back and
• 28:49
  didn't like 2 man it. We're going to be good.
• 28:51
  Oh, yeah. But I so I don't, I don't think
• 28:56
  I don't not to say the thing that I say every single podcast.
• 29:06
  I think the lizard should be spending more time on
• 29:09
  expansions. I think that we should have more
• 29:12
  time between patches. I don't think that we need to be
• 29:15
  pushing the way that we're pushing.
• 29:16
  I think that that like I I would rather a priority, the priority
• 29:22
  being things come out pretty close to perfect, then things
• 29:27
  come out soon. I understand that might not be a
• 29:29
  popular opinion and that a lot of people like the fact that the
• 29:31
  content is driving and to be fair, they're doing a really
• 29:33
  good like overwhelmingly they're doing a good job of it.
• 29:35
  I just a humans can't keep up this time, right?
• 29:40
  Like the old Blizzard team wasn't putting out information
• 29:43
  slower because they were lazy and like to spend work hours
• 29:47
  eating pies, right? Like, they were putting out
• 29:50
  patches slower because they needed that time to do the work.
• 29:53
  And the idea that we can just permanently be like, well, no,
• 29:56
  we're actually going to cut, you know, months off of development
• 29:59
  time after laying off. I mean, I guess the World
• 30:01
  Warcraft team wasn't hit too hard by layoffs.
• 30:03
  But like, after putting these people through an emotional
• 30:05
  ringer and it's going to be fine.
• 30:07
  We're not going to see any repercussions of that.
• 30:09
  I think is frankly disrespectful of the old team and like the
• 30:14
  historic team, and I might, maybe I'm wrong, maybe this is
• 30:17
  going to age really badly, but I do feel like every patch and
• 30:23
  every expansion, I'm like, oh, that could have been fixed with
• 30:27
  another month in the pot. And I just wish they'd do that.
• 30:32
  But I know that money is money. There's, there's definitely
• 30:37
  limiting returns on like how much time an internal team
• 30:43
  spends on something. Obviously things are, nothing's
• 30:46
  ever going to be perfect, but yes, sometimes some more time
• 30:49
  will allow them to refine things.
• 30:52
  But I also think that when we're in a world where in the
• 30:59
  day-to-day of World Warcraft is something you can walk away
• 31:04
  from, they need to give you reasons to come back to the game
• 31:08
  more frequently. That's fair.
• 31:10
  So like, that's why we get these patches of the 1.51.7 patch
• 31:16
  because there's a reason to return.
• 31:18
  Oh, something news coming. Let me check out Wow.
• 31:21
  When you have people blowing through the raid in two weeks,
• 31:25
  12 days, well then these guys are in farm mode for the next
• 31:35
  little bit, selling, selling carries for the next little bit
• 31:40
  afterwards and the race starts up again when the new when the
• 31:43
  new patch comes out. And not even the 11.5, which we
• 31:47
  think is going to be in time for Easter or no, Yeah, I think it's
• 31:53
  in time for Easter or it's in May anyways.
• 31:56
  We don't have a confirmed affirm date, but it should be sometime
• 31:59
  soon, right? Yeah, like that doesn't do
• 32:04
  anything for people who are rating.
• 32:05
  That doesn't do anything for people who are doing their delve
• 32:08
  journey. That doesn't do anything for
• 32:10
  people whose entire journey is doing keystones.
• 32:16
  The PvP is going to get shaken up if they do big balance tuning
• 32:21
  like one point, sorry, rather eleven O 5 had big balance
• 32:25
  changing so that shook up PVPA lot, but it was still the same
• 32:30
  season. Your rating was still carrying
• 32:33
  over. I think that May with like a
• 32:39
  three tier sort of thing and they're rushing to get out the
• 32:42
  next expansion. Obviously midnight.
• 32:44
  We're already getting looked at the housing system.
• 32:48
  We already know that we're going to get the big reveal this
• 32:51
  summer, which is only a couple of sorry, a couple half a year
• 32:56
  away because we're now in March. That's likely going to be in
• 33:01
  August. Don't scare me like that, Manny.
• 33:03
  Things can't come out that fast. I have things to do with my
• 33:05
  life. I'm.
• 33:06
  Happy, right. So like the, the speed of
• 33:11
  content is a lot faster. And yes, I would prefer that we
• 33:16
  would get meteor releases in the small patches and, and have
• 33:23
  things teased out a little bit longer.
• 33:26
  But everybody before this, I was complaining about, oh, Blizzard
• 33:32
  and your time gating. Well, now you're getting it.
• 33:36
  Now you're getting it fast. And nobody's complaining about
• 33:39
  time gating. And I, I know it's a Venn
• 33:41
  diagram. Not everybody who's complaining
• 33:42
  about time gating is the same people who are complaining about
• 33:45
  it not being balanced on day one.
• 33:48
  But like, I don't think that you could ever expect them to do
• 33:51
  everything. And my bias is that, yeah, the
• 33:55
  race to world first teams are going to go all going to go
• 33:57
  balance and test it for for me. And when I get to there I'll be
• 34:01
  fine just like all the EU guys are like thanks NA for beta
• 34:06
  testing every patch that comes out and.
• 34:09
  To be super clear, I am primarily concerned about the
• 34:14
  human issue of how fast things are moving up Blizzard and I am
• 34:17
  using issues that come up with a patch to kind of make a business
• 34:22
  argument for why they should slow down.
• 34:24
  Because I under like, I, I don't think that anyone cares.
• 34:27
  I mean, like people do care, but I think that like the people
• 34:30
  looking at the numbers are not going to be like, oh, but it'll
• 34:33
  make our employees sad. And maybe it doesn't.
• 34:35
  Maybe the employees are fine. I don't believe it.
• 34:39
  Again, I really I don't because I to argue.
• 34:44
  That they they're unionized Lex and they're adults.
• 34:47
  When they start complaining about crunches and such, then I
• 34:52
  will be 100% in line in line with you.
• 34:56
  But we haven't heard any devs start being like this schedule
• 35:02
  is is is ridiculous. You would hear it at least a
• 35:06
  little bit on socials, right? I think that that has been the
• 35:18
  issue with the gaming industry for a while though, right?
• 35:21
  Like, it's not like it's a new issue that like people feel
• 35:24
  like, well, we're doing something cool and it's worth
• 35:26
  it. So we got to kind of suck it up.
• 35:29
  But but like, crunch has never been overly sorry.
• 35:35
  That's not true. Blizzard.
• 35:36
  Blizzard has had its issues with crunch, especially since it's it
• 35:41
  likes to hire passionate people to then come in and work for
• 35:45
  less than mark market value and stuff.
• 35:48
  And that's like, but that's like an entire entire side.
• 35:51
  The the thing about it is that the team has never been quiet,
• 35:58
  or at least the entirety of the team has never been quiet when
• 36:01
  it's come to those sort of issues.
• 36:03
  Like there's how many walk outs when there needed to be walk
• 36:06
  outs. There were petitions to get like
• 36:08
  the CEO fired when they when they felt it was necessary.
• 36:12
  There was complaints about stacked ranking in the with the
• 36:19
  customer. Sorry, the employee reviews.
• 36:21
  So like I just, if this was a persistent issue that was
• 36:26
  affecting the the lively the lives of the employees, I think
• 36:34
  we would see it more. And what has been told to us
• 36:38
  public is that they brought on a large number of developers and
• 36:45
  even before that they were separating the team into stages.
• 36:49
  So you have the team that's concepting things, you have the
• 36:53
  team that is building out the like the stages of the patches.
• 36:58
  And then you have a live team that's bringing in all these
• 37:00
  other things. So none of those teams are like
• 37:04
  pushed on all of the work. They're just they're, they're,
• 37:07
  it's a far more of an assembly line that we're getting with
• 37:11
  patches. But I would, I think what I
• 37:14
  would love for you to do is if you could look for something
• 37:20
  that kind of points towards confirming or validating your
• 37:27
  concerns more. And I, I would love to sort of
• 37:29
  like do like a, a more of a deeper dive into it in into a
• 37:35
  future episode. But like I just, I feel like
• 37:38
  until we get the concerns like voice, like we're, we're, we're
• 37:41
  almost mothering at that point. Do you really think that anyone
• 37:44
  is going to come out in a time when Blizzard is consistently
• 37:47
  doing pretty intensive layoffs and say I'm unhappy with my job
• 37:52
  right now? Like I.
• 37:56
  I, I think, I think that there that that would quiet many
• 38:00
  people, but it would never quiet at all people.
• 38:02
  It would never quiet. Everyone.
• 38:04
  And I think that even when I felt that Blizzard was like
• 38:11
  Blizzard as a corporation was at its worst with like a, a person
• 38:17
  that I would characterize as vindictive leading them, they
• 38:24
  they weren't able to, to sort of not even they weren't able to do
• 38:28
  that. They had so many people in the
• 38:29
  organization that were were supporting, even if even if it
• 38:35
  wasn't like loud, like it was quite.
• 38:38
  About for what, like a decade after the issue?
• 38:42
  Like, I, I don't know, maybe I mean, neither of us have
• 38:46
  anything. Like I, I guess you feel that
• 38:48
  you have something more to back your, your side, but like we're,
• 38:51
  we're both kind of talking in hypotheticals.
• 38:53
  But like, I would argue that the lawsuit proves that Blizzard can
• 38:58
  cover things up for a really long time, right?
• 39:01
  Do you feel like you knew that that was going to come out
• 39:04
  before the lawsuit came out? Like, do you feel like you would
• 39:07
  have heard whispers that that was going on a Blizzard?
• 39:11
  I don't think, yeah, you know, that that is a good point.
• 39:14
  I, I would say that is a good point.
• 39:17
  But I, I think that you still hear things, even if it, you
• 39:25
  don't, if you realize it's that pervasive, you still hear a
• 39:29
  couple of things. You can still hear about like,
• 39:32
  oh, BlizzCon and like, oh, something happened at BlizzCon,
• 39:36
  or like, this is horrible that this has happened at that
• 39:39
  BlizzCon. You still still have some of
• 39:41
  those things. And I guess that kind of segues
• 39:45
  into the announcement about, no, I was going to say the obvious
• 39:52
  word for BlizzCon coming back because we're talking about like
• 39:54
  all the bad things. But we talked about that last
• 39:56
  week. We did.
• 39:58
  You know what I want, I want to give us a couple seconds to talk
• 40:00
  about, although I know we've been very chatty for a very long
• 40:02
  time, is maybe how was the Toronto Creators event?
• 40:07
  Not, sorry, not the Toronto's Creators event.
• 40:09
  How was the Toronto 30th anniversary?
• 40:12
  Yeah, OK, So I went to the Toronto Warcraft 30th
• 40:16
  anniversary event. It was nice.
• 40:21
  I thought that it was. It was nice.
• 40:23
  It was a very intimate thing because like they had a space,
• 40:29
  the entire space of the rec room would hold like 1200 people, but
• 40:34
  they had only cordoned off a part of it for about 300 people,
• 40:37
  which includes staff and the dignitaries.
• 40:41
  Anyways, you know what kind of events I usually go to anyways,
• 40:45
  like the end of the faces and everything.
• 40:49
  And so it was sort of like just a social.
• 40:53
  It wasn't like police con. There were no announcements.
• 40:57
  There were no like games on on hand for you to test or
• 41:01
  anything. It the events included, of
• 41:04
  course, like a bit of a speech by Holly Longdale, who is
• 41:09
  Canadian. For those of you who don't know,
• 41:13
  Tina Wang was there and Brendan Sewell, who is from Hearthstone.
• 41:17
  Tina Wang is one of the senior artists, right?
• 41:20
  And just talking about like, oh, like Warcraft has been going 30
• 41:24
  years and it's great and we're looking forward to like doing
• 41:27
  more stuff, but no big announcements.
• 41:30
  There was a, a cosplay sort of showcase where there's people
• 41:37
  dressed up as all the like, mostly the different dragon
• 41:40
  aspects felt very Dragonflight. Then they gave like if they gave
• 41:45
  out mocktails and just got to chat and everything.
• 41:47
  There was like a little book that you could sign gift gift
• 41:50
  box or is a gift bag really that had a couple of things like I
• 41:54
  think same as the London event had that same gift bag.
• 41:58
  And so like what I found was the real fun of that event was
• 42:05
  meeting people. Like it is great to be in a
• 42:08
  place where like, you know, everybody shares a common
• 42:11
  interest and that you got to like talk with people.
• 42:15
  So like it was just the conversations that I had,
• 42:20
  whether it was Towley and his love of like calling everything
• 42:24
  clickbait or sorry, that was Slute.
• 42:27
  That was Slute. Slute called everything
• 42:28
  clickbait. I'm just like, no, you're
• 42:30
  warping the, the entire term of it.
• 42:32
  Or like meeting ABBA Don, who's a streamer that like I've talked
• 42:37
  to her a couple of times and actually meeting, meeting people
• 42:40
  in person. That was, I think that's what
• 42:42
  really made the, the event. But I think BlizzCon is a
• 42:49
  different animal. It is just like a bigger, badder
• 42:53
  beasts of an event. Yeah, well, I'm really hoping to
• 42:57
  be at the Boston event, although we won't know until we have
• 42:58
  tickets. So hopefully I'll see people
• 43:01
  there and we'll have fun. We'll chat.
• 43:03
  I have big dreams of bringing a lapel Mike and maybe doing some
• 43:06
  small interviews, but TBD if that actually happens.
• 43:09
  But I'm still that that sounds so lovely, just having that time
• 43:12
  to talk to people. Like, as much as I do agree that
• 43:14
  it sounds like BlizzCon is an entirely different beast and the
• 43:17
  energy is completely different, I do think that part of the joy
• 43:20
  was just being in a space where everybody loves the same thing
• 43:23
  you love. Right.
• 43:24
  I remember one of the just the happiest moments for me at
• 43:26
  BlizzCon was just looking around and watching everyone play
• 43:29
  Rumble because Rumble and jump come out at BlizzCon and being
• 43:32
  like, Oh my God, I got early access.
• 43:34
  I, I was doing beta testing and just feeling like we're all the
• 43:38
  same. Like we're all just, but I was
• 43:39
  also playing Rumble. Like, we're all just having a
• 43:41
  good time. We're playing our fun little
• 43:42
  games. And we're just, we're here for
• 43:45
  the joy and the happiness and, and to support this game that we
• 43:48
  all love. Yeah.
• 43:50
  So I'm glad you're able to have a little bit of that experience.
• 43:52
  The Boston one, I think it's going to be really good.
• 43:55
  It's like happening right alongside packs.
• 43:58
  So like if you can get out the boss, if you can get those
• 44:00
  tickets, do do so. Again, these tickets sell fast.
• 44:06
  So if you are looking to get tickets, be ready with that
• 44:11
  refresh button to try and get it because the Toronto one went in
• 44:14
  like about a minute. I'm not sure if it was under a
• 44:17
  minute or over a minute, but it was about a minute that that
• 44:22
  they sold out my friend and I, my friend gave me a heads up.
• 44:25
  It was like, oh, they're going on sound like right, right, let
• 44:27
  me go. I got tickets.
• 44:28
  He didn't. So luckily I brought him along
• 44:32
  and that was good. Anyways, let's swing it back to
• 44:37
  the I the game itself. Let's talk about Delves because
• 44:42
  there's been yet again more balancing with Delves.
• 44:47
  Bran has received a number of of buffs, so they have decided to
• 44:52
  sort of roll back a couple of the nurse that they gave him.
• 44:59
  Remember that he knocked his health down by 20%.
• 45:01
  Well, now it's back up 10%. The big one that they did is
• 45:07
  that all versions of Brand, whether he's tank, heal or DPS
• 45:12
  now take 50% reduced damage from AOE.
• 45:14
  And I think that's a big one in terms of survivability for all
• 45:17
  brands. And they fixed a a bug where
• 45:23
  healer Brand, his damage taken was not being reduced as
• 45:29
  expected. So healer Brand was especially
• 45:31
  frail and they fixed a bug with that on top of the 50% reduction
• 45:39
  going back to tank man, he now receives 13% reduced damage
• 45:44
  overall. Remember, they increases damage
• 45:46
  taken by 60%. Well, now they've backed it off
• 45:48
  a little bit from that. He now also receives 5% reduced
• 45:54
  damage while using his shotgun. That's great for AOE thing
• 45:57
  because the shotgun is great for that spread damage and now he
• 46:01
  takes less damage when he's using that.
• 46:04
  They have put in a special internal cooldown for his like
• 46:11
  stacking weapon as sorry stacking damage buff for a lot
• 46:15
  of the hot like effects. So it's not just hot like, you
• 46:21
  know, riptide or soothing soothing mist, but it's also
• 46:25
  things that you where he would get like relatively frequent
• 46:27
  healing. Like when you use pennants on a
• 46:30
  on a discipline priest. It's not actually a hot because
• 46:33
  it's damage events that then translate to healing, but
• 46:37
  because it's happening so constantly, they are treating it
• 46:40
  like a hot for this. So now I believe it's about 5
• 46:43
  seconds where he won't gain additional stack of the the
• 46:49
  damage buff when you're when you're using these abilities,
• 46:53
  but you can still stack this up. Keep enrolling in combat, keep
• 46:57
  those stacks going. He it stacks up to like 360%
• 47:03
  damage. So it's still quite a big damage
• 47:06
  buff. And now that he doesn't like get
• 47:08
  like two shots as quickly Brand, I think tank Brand is in a much
• 47:13
  better position. And that's not even including
• 47:15
  the fact that like last week, when this wasn't happening, I
• 47:19
  jumped on my shaman, went over to heel spec with like garbage
• 47:23
  trinkets that were like things that I could find, hobbled
• 47:27
  around A11 delve and still got through it.
• 47:32
  And that was like item Level 3, sorry, rather 612 or 613.
• 47:37
  So not, not anything high. I'm leveled, not skilled with it
• 47:41
  because I haven't done for a bit and now it's even better.
• 47:43
  So I think should be good. Yeah, I do.
• 47:47
  I will say I complain a lot about Delves being underpowered
• 47:50
  this tier and I will probably can.
• 47:51
  I mean at this point they're just going to be under tap power
• 47:53
  at all tier. So I'll complain about it all
• 47:54
  tier. That said, I do think that it
• 47:57
  should be fair, right? Like, if I, as a tanky DPS,
• 48:00
  could go in and kind of only half pay attention to my poles
• 48:02
  and not do my rotation and still get through pretty cleanly, then
• 48:06
  a healer at a similar item level should be able to do the exact
• 48:09
  same. So yeah, I like the fact that
• 48:11
  they're putting things back up and they're making it so that
• 48:13
  healing in Delves remains that's viable.
• 48:18
  I mean, like I haven't done it. So and and also we've talked
• 48:20
  extensively about how like nothing like if if you're trying
• 48:23
  to balance to this many classes with this many different skill
• 48:26
  sets, nothing is going to be equal, right?
• 48:27
  There are going to be some Demon Hunter is going to be
• 48:30
  particularly powerful in Delves because we're particularly high,
• 48:33
  highly tanky and we are particularly high in self heels,
• 48:36
  right. So I'm always going to have an
• 48:37
  easier time in Delves. That's.
• 48:40
  Go for it. One thing I will say, even if
• 48:43
  you were a Demon Hunter, the trio of hobgovins, you know
• 48:47
  those ones that charge nasty, those things were nasty.
• 48:51
  They decided to nerf that by like kicking one of the trio off
• 48:55
  the team. So now it's only two.
• 48:57
  I'm in love. Like when I, when I saw those
• 48:59
  guys, I like that was like the OK, this is going to be the
• 49:02
  challenge. And it was like Dunlock burn one
• 49:05
  down and I can handle 2 now they start off as two from the get
• 49:08
  go. I'm I'm, I'm enjoying it.
• 49:10
  Oh yeah, that's a good change. Those again, I think that things
• 49:13
  should be consistent through throughout delves, throughout
• 49:17
  different delves, throughout different classes and delves.
• 49:20
  So like that, that was tough, right?
• 49:22
  It was a little bit weird that it's like, I can do the end boss
• 49:26
  and only pay like 10% attention, but I get to this like mid
• 49:30
  level, like just trying to upgrade my Ruby in cash and all
• 49:33
  of a sudden it's complicated, like what is going on here?
• 49:39
  So yeah, I, I, I agree that's a good change.
• 49:41
  We like that. We were down to just two.
• 49:43
  The other one went first, as Blizzard said.
• 49:47
  Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like to be fair,
• 49:51
  as much as I complain about how I want elves to be harder.
• 49:54
  It is. Kind of fun I will admit that I
• 49:56
  can go in and spend 15 minutes just I beaming things down and
• 50:02
  call it a day and get some good gear.
• 50:04
  You know I, I would like more single player challenge to
• 50:08
  continue through longer in the season, but I it's not that I'm
• 50:15
  not enjoying delves, right it's not that I'm not having fun
• 50:19
  doing delves. It's just that I want more.
• 50:23
  I don't want to be at the apex of Delves at this point.
• 50:29
  I I didn't want to be at the apex of the delves last week,
• 50:31
  right? I wanted that to give me more
• 50:33
  that I could do throughout the season.
• 50:36
  Yeah, yeah. So if any Blizzard devs are
• 50:40
  listening, like, yeah, throw, throw in those those challenge
• 50:42
  modes, we'd we'd love to see them.
• 50:44
  The challenge mode with the third guy comes back and he's
• 50:47
  like, oh I, I've been swimming and now I've got the swimmer
• 50:51
  pod. Man's a triangle.
• 50:55
  Yeah, yeah, but no, I'm, I'm glad for the I'm glad for these
• 51:00
  changes for those who need it. I don't think that this there's
• 51:04
  they're much smaller changes. They're nowhere near the 60%
• 51:08
  change. They are very targeted.
• 51:10
  The AOE, the AOE damage I think was Brand's real weakness.
• 51:14
  The fact that like Brand was going down and getting stunned
• 51:17
  and and I was still just like, all right, fine, I'll I'll just
• 51:21
  roll up the gloves. I'll do it myself.
• 51:23
  Thanos snap a couple of creatures and go.
• 51:26
  I do think that delves could need stuff, but my mileage
• 51:30
  varies from other people. So yeah, they've got the numbers
• 51:34
  and they're making the tuning. Yeah, we're popping along now.
• 51:39
  Here's what I think. Here's what I think I just said.
• 51:41
  I think that things should be equal among tears or like among
• 51:44
  within delves. Everyone should be the same.
• 51:46
  I think it should be the same with different sections of delve
• 51:50
  I think, or not not delve different sections of the game.
• 51:52
  So I think that if we're going to say that I can reach tier 8
• 51:56
  delves in one sitting, I should also be able to what?
• 52:00
  What's the mythic plus version like?
• 52:02
  What would hit at the same gear level as an ear?
• 52:05
  Like not recommended gear because the recommended gear for
• 52:07
  delves is busted, but what drops a 539?
• 52:11
  I want to say 8639. Yeah, yeah, 639 at the end of a
• 52:18
  dungeon. Good question.
• 52:24
  I think you're looking at A7 like, you know what, Let me just
• 52:27
  quickly pull up a little chart here because they were the
• 52:29
  Fisher's Guide that had all of that.
• 52:32
  And so if you want a 639 from a Mythic Plus, you are looking at
• 52:43
  2 plus three. 3 + 4 also gives you at the end of the dungeon
• 52:54
  639. Yeah.
• 52:56
  So it's real quick to get that level in Mythic Plus.
• 52:59
  I guess realistically my issue is the same issue I've had with
• 53:03
  delves the entire time, which is that I don't think they're
• 53:06
  actual end game, right? And they're not, they're not
• 53:09
  meant. I understand that you're going
• 53:11
  to then respond with yes, Elizabeth said.
• 53:12
  They are not like that. They cap at a much lower level
• 53:15
  than group and game content. But I think that we have not
• 53:20
  achieved single player end game content.
• 53:24
  And I think that they need to do that.
• 53:26
  And I don't really believe any of the arguments they've given
• 53:30
  me for why they can't give me single player end game content
• 53:33
  that. Well is it the rewards that make
• 53:35
  it single player end game content?
• 53:38
  Well, I mean, first of all, there's the amount, but also,
• 53:40
  yeah, I I think that I should, I, I think that I there's for me
• 53:44
  to say that we have achieved single player end game content.
• 53:47
  I should be able to get essentially like equally geared
• 53:51
  doing delves as I would doing mythic plus right?
• 53:54
  Like I should. Be or like a mythic raid.
• 53:57
  Yeah, sure. Wow.
• 53:59
  And it should be equal level of challenge.
• 54:01
  But I think that I, I, I, I have not heard an argument that
• 54:05
  genuinely convinces me yet of why they can't tune single
• 54:09
  player content to difficulty levels.
• 54:12
  That would mean that you could have viable like true end game,
• 54:16
  the way that you have mythic rate, the way that you have high
• 54:18
  level mythic Plus. I have not heard a real argument
• 54:21
  that I, I fully believe. And maybe it's just I don't buy
• 54:23
  any of the good arguments, right?
• 54:25
  OK, so let me let me run past a what I feel is a good argument
• 54:29
  and see if you you believe it. Let's assume that there are an
• 54:34
  unlimited number of Lexus in the world.
• 54:36
  OK, there are equal amount of Lexus that are playing Demon
• 54:41
  Hunter and Priest, which means that you can cover every role
• 54:46
  between tank, healer, range, DPS, melee DPS.
• 54:52
  OK, in a delve, single player delve failure or success is
• 54:59
  binary. Lex messes up, she fails, Lex
• 55:03
  succeeds, she wins. In a raid, mythic raid, which is
• 55:08
  20 Lex, one Lex fails, does that mean she wipes the raid and
• 55:16
  that's equal difficulty or half the Lexus fail?
• 55:20
  All but one Lex fails and they could still make it through the
• 55:24
  the the failure. Just the failure line with no
• 55:28
  other context is just wildly different between the two, the
• 55:31
  two formats, right? You fail a mechanic in a delve
• 55:37
  and let's say it one shots you because that's the level of of
• 55:40
  the hit, right? That's that's going to wipe your
• 55:46
  team if you do. If one person fails a mechanic
• 55:48
  and gets one shot in a mythic raid, that isn't the end of the
• 55:52
  world, right? Well, so first of all, I would
• 55:56
  say that they equal that out with Simon.
• 56:01
  I'm making a couple points. The first thing they they, they
• 56:03
  could, they have not. This is not well balanced in
• 56:07
  Delve. I think that what they would
• 56:09
  need to do is they would need to give a higher fail state, right?
• 56:12
  They would need to make it much harder, for example, to be a
• 56:14
  tank and a delve, make it much and make make I probably fewer
• 56:19
  lives at the end of a delve, and make it easier to die in a delve
• 56:22
  because I I would actually kind of argue the opposite, which is
• 56:24
  that a delve is at this point virtually unfailable like.
• 56:28
  I I did not argue it one way. I just said if both are equal
• 56:32
  chance of fail fail state, you have 20 chances in one versus
• 56:38
  binary in the other. I guess I'm kind of struggling
• 56:40
  with the issue like then then you you balance it out at race
• 56:43
  you make. What's the equal difficulty in
• 56:47
  that? Like assuming that you can make
• 56:48
  both of them equal, how many people have to fail in a raid to
• 56:52
  equal one person dying and and and failing in the delve?
• 56:57
  Well, how many people have to die in a mythic plus equal dying
• 56:59
  and failing in a raid? Do you Would you?
• 57:00
  I don't know that I'd argue that those are inherently 1 to one.
• 57:05
  I I, I, I guess I'm just not understanding.
• 57:07
  Like, is it? Are you saying that the issue is
• 57:10
  that it's too? Like one would be too easy and
• 57:12
  the other would be too hard? I just think that like it if you
• 57:16
  have, you don't know how much can fail between one or the
• 57:20
  other. That's the answer to that in my
• 57:22
  mind is that there is no correct answer, right?
• 57:25
  There is like there are mechanics that will one shot one
• 57:30
  shot you in a raid and you fail and it'll cause a immediate raid
• 57:35
  wipe, right? Which means that you that any
• 57:38
  one out of 20 people can cause entire raid to wipe, right?
• 57:43
  And that mythic difficulty personal responsibility can be
• 57:45
  at that level. In a delve, it's always personal
• 57:49
  responsibility. You die, you die Brand is never
• 57:53
  going to carry you through it right?
• 57:56
  In terms of the, the balance in a 20 person raid, they can
• 58:03
  assume that you have certain things like Mythic Galliwick's,
• 58:08
  the the gate doesn't come down. You need somebody who can
• 58:12
  actually jump over. So you have to give it to an
• 58:14
  evoker. You have to give it to a Demon
• 58:16
  Hunter that you jump over the gap because anybody else is just
• 58:19
  going to fall and they won't be able to do it.
• 58:21
  So they can assume that in a 20 person raid at mythic level,
• 58:25
  somebody's going to be able to bring one of those classes that
• 58:28
  can do that or even a warlock that can gate it, but then they
• 58:31
  can't get back. So they'd have to use their
• 58:33
  circle. It's like there's like you could
• 58:35
  use different things in a in a pinch, right?
• 58:41
  That kind of balance can't be done in a delve because even if
• 58:46
  you scale it to five people, you can't guarantee that somebody
• 58:48
  has has an ability, right? Same thing with the the damage
• 58:54
  that they're having now. They're having such an issue
• 58:56
  making it challenging for somebody who's a geared tank to
• 58:59
  go through delves because they also need the damage not to
• 59:02
  scale so far that the mage isn't going to get one shot or some
• 59:05
  other cloth wearing class that can't take take the hits.
• 59:09
  I just think the tuning can never be as exact as on a mythic
• 59:13
  raid and therefore the difficulty cannot be as dialed
• 59:16
  in. And in an episode where we were
• 59:17
  just talking about them having such difficulties balancing the
• 59:21
  raid right, asking them to do that with a mythic plus just
• 59:24
  seems so far gone. So I kind of feel like I, I, I
• 59:29
  feel like what I think was the slip of the tongue there
• 59:32
  actually kind of makes my like, I, I, I think that that's an
• 59:35
  argument that people bake and I think that it's kind of
• 59:37
  inherently washed out by the fact that mythic plus exists,
• 59:41
  right. And in mythic plus, there are a
• 59:43
  significantly higher number of potential combinations of
• 59:47
  classes that are going through then will ever the the the the
• 59:51
  numbers of ways that you can combine five classes in World of
• 59:54
  Warcraft is I don't I can't do the math, but it's probably in
• 1:00:00
  the thousands. I don't know.
• 1:00:01
  I don't know. I can't do the math, But I know
• 1:00:02
  that that like that change, like that sort of exponential
• 1:00:06
  combination is I went to high school.
• 1:00:08
  I didn't, I haven't thought about that in a while, but they
• 1:00:11
  balance it right. And yeah, and and there's always
• 1:00:13
  times that it's like, yeah, like it's so much better to bring a
• 1:00:16
  shaman. So it's so much easier to get
• 1:00:17
  into. And plus a shaman or like this
• 1:00:21
  season just really sucks if you're a warlock.
• 1:00:23
  I don't know if that's true. I pulled a class out of my butt
• 1:00:27
  but like. There Yeah, there are always
• 1:00:30
  balancing issues and there's always a meta, but clearly the
• 1:00:33
  Blizzard team knows how to balance events, how to balance
• 1:00:40
  and plus specifically so that you can take a group of five.
• 1:00:45
  Yeah, like like you said in in raid, you can be like, well,
• 1:00:48
  it's 20 people, you're going to have somebody who can jump, but
• 1:00:52
  you can't do that in M plus. So it's not that Blizzard needs
• 1:00:55
  the capability to assume that certain percent like, you know,
• 1:00:58
  you're always going to have people who have certain skills
• 1:01:02
  to to do to create content. They're capable of creating
• 1:01:05
  content where they're like, well, what are we, you know, how
• 1:01:07
  are we going to balance this in case they don't have somebody
• 1:01:09
  who can do a magic dispel, but we want to have a magic debuff
• 1:01:12
  in like what what's the how? How are we going to manage that?
• 1:01:15
  It's not just that. It's like, well, for this
• 1:01:17
  dungeon we exclusively have to do like, we just assume that you
• 1:01:20
  have a priest or you're all going to die.
• 1:01:23
  Yes, no, right. Like I mean like magic buff
• 1:01:26
  aside because all healers get rid of magic, but like let's
• 1:01:29
  say. OK, well then I picked the wrong
• 1:01:30
  one. Disease, let's say you say
• 1:01:31
  poison. Yeah.
• 1:01:32
  Disease or disease or something that required a specific kind of
• 1:01:35
  dispel. Yes and no, because you will
• 1:01:39
  find that above certain key levels, certain classes no
• 1:01:45
  longer become viable. And what they do is that they
• 1:01:48
  don't have the reward scale infinitely, just like Mythic
• 1:01:53
  Plus scales infinitely. They cap the rewards so that if
• 1:01:58
  you are doing a 12, you get the best rewards.
• 1:02:03
  But people go on and they do 18/19/20, right?
• 1:02:07
  Like they're going to almost double where the rewards cap
• 1:02:11
  out. And regardless of all that you
• 1:02:14
  do, the best rewards come once a week in the vault.
• 1:02:20
  The lower rewards, the lower rewards are like capped lower
• 1:02:24
  because mythic plus rewards faster.
• 1:02:27
  And that's been like the largest argument that we've had many
• 1:02:32
  times on this show and many times throughout the community
• 1:02:35
  is Mythic pluses don't offer the same logistical complexity and
• 1:02:42
  difficulty that raids do, right? And often what you'll find is
• 1:02:48
  that many of the the same things that they would do in a raid
• 1:02:56
  where it's like, OK, this raid requires you to have a death
• 1:03:01
  knight or some sort of sort of thing that doesn't get forced
• 1:03:05
  movement so that you can do this.
• 1:03:07
  Or this one requires that you use immunity like they did it in
• 1:03:13
  so gears or that sort of thing in order to really push through
• 1:03:17
  this, this fight in in mythic Plus they still have some of
• 1:03:23
  those things where it's like, OK, you now need to leave the
• 1:03:27
  group. Like let's say dark flame craft
• 1:03:29
  last boss and dark flame craft, you get a circle around you.
• 1:03:32
  You now need to leave the group and go out into into the
• 1:03:36
  darkness to so that you don't fear the entire group.
• 1:03:39
  And if and if one person doesn't do that well, then everybody
• 1:03:47
  gets feared, it's likely to lead her wipe at a high enough level.
• 1:03:51
  Right, which is something similar that they can do in a
• 1:03:53
  raid where it's like a bunch you get get circles.
• 1:03:56
  You can't stand on top of somebody else.
• 1:03:58
  They do that all the time. Like in the carnage fight, the
• 1:04:02
  Colosseum of carnage. It's like, OK, here's circles
• 1:04:05
  around you spread out so you don't hit your your fellows
• 1:04:09
  right. They can't do that in delves
• 1:04:13
  because they're not guaranteed to have fellows.
• 1:04:16
  Your everything has to be sort of a personal thing.
• 1:04:19
  Yes, sometimes Bran will cleanse for you.
• 1:04:22
  So hey, you don't need to have that that curse because Bran
• 1:04:27
  will sometimes curse for you. But then you need to support
• 1:04:31
  brand, you need to use a defensive for yourself and they
• 1:04:34
  don't put as they don't put tank Busters in there because you're
• 1:04:37
  not guaranteed to have a tank. So there's a lot of different
• 1:04:40
  things that they can use to make a more exacting difficulty that
• 1:04:43
  they that they're literally restrained from using in delves.
• 1:04:47
  But again, but again, there's there's also huge differences in
• 1:04:51
  what you can do in an M plus versus the rain.
• 1:04:53
  But they have end game content for both of them right?
• 1:04:56
  Like yeah, but you said the end game is because you can get the
• 1:05:00
  best gear and I'm showing that mythic plus takes a step down
• 1:05:05
  because it's difficulty is wait. Does mythic plus not offer the
• 1:05:09
  same level of gear that raid does?
• 1:05:12
  Like like top level mythic plus? What?
• 1:05:14
  What is the the raid difference? The gear difference between top
• 1:05:17
  level like mythic raid gear and M plus like before you hit the
• 1:05:21
  challenge mode. So at the end, at the end of a
• 1:05:25
  raid, you will get 662, I believe gear and I'm I'd have to
• 1:05:34
  go 678 on the very rare 678 gear.
• 1:05:38
  OK, at other at other places it's 672.
• 1:05:44
  OK in a mythic plus the end of a vault will give you 655 and then
• 1:05:51
  sorry the end of a dungeon 6:55 and then in a vault you will get
• 1:05:55
  662 which you can then start going like OK let me upgrade
• 1:06:00
  this but it's slower because you start at that lower thing and
• 1:06:03
  have to upgrade. So they already offset it a bit.
• 1:06:06
  OK, So I would accept the delves mainly.
• 1:06:09
  Yeah, like it does not have to be like exactly.
• 1:06:12
  I, I, I, I I didn't realize that.
• 1:06:15
  So maybe I'm a little bit, but 10 item levels is different than
• 1:06:22
  I guess 20. Are you serious?
• 1:06:25
  Is it really? So the delve is 649 at in the
• 1:06:28
  vault at 6:39 in in there but their heroic track so they will
• 1:06:33
  cap. Oh man I hate when I do this cap
• 1:06:38
  at 665 S The stuff that you get out of a delve in your vault
• 1:06:44
  right on the hero track you can get up to.
• 1:06:49
  Is it on the hero track? Oh God, Delves.
• 1:06:52
  Wait, is it 655? No.
• 1:06:54
  It's going to be champ track. No, it's going to be hero track.
• 1:06:58
  I'm right, I'm right. It's hero track.
• 1:07:01
  There's only a 20 item level difference, but less than less
• 1:07:04
  than a 20 item level difference between.
• 1:07:06
  If you do it AM 2 and it's like it's in an M10.
• 1:07:10
  Is the top level mythic? I don't do top level anything.
• 1:07:13
  Mythic. If you do a mythic 10 you will
• 1:07:18
  get the best in your vault. That'll get you a 662 in your
• 1:07:21
  vault. OK, that's the highest reward
• 1:07:24
  you can get out of a vault from a mythic.
• 1:07:26
  Plus that difference between what you get out of a vault for
• 1:07:31
  the top tier delve. 649 to 52 right?
• 1:07:37
  That's a 13 item level difference.
• 1:07:40
  So but but no I'm talking I'm I'm I'm just surprised I don't
• 1:07:43
  do top level mythic so I didn't even realize how small of an
• 1:07:45
  item level change this is. So it's only a 20 item level
• 1:07:48
  change if you do an M2 and an M10AM I tripping out?
• 1:07:55
  So a mythic 2 gets you the 39 and the mythic 10 getting you 55
• 1:08:04
  is I guess. I'm not not not nothing, but
• 1:08:07
  it's much slower than I thought it was.
• 1:08:10
  Right. Plus it's on a different upgrade
• 1:08:11
  track there at that point, right?
• 1:08:13
  That's true. Yeah.
• 1:08:14
  So I I guess maybe it's more so that mythic plus isn't as strong
• 1:08:19
  as I thought it was and I just assumed that mythic plus is
• 1:08:21
  strong because all of my besties who like spend all their time
• 1:08:24
  playing are super geared after mythic plus.
• 1:08:28
  Again, like it's easier for you to get like and there's also the
• 1:08:31
  organizational challenge. It's easier for you to get 5
• 1:08:33
  people together and go do Mythic Plus than it is for you to get
• 1:08:36
  20 people together and do a Mythic raid and 20 people at
• 1:08:40
  that level versus 5 people at that same level if they were
• 1:08:45
  equivalent. It's just a completely different
• 1:08:47
  organizational hurdle to jump through.
• 1:08:50
  Oh yeah, yeah. And I mean, like, to be fair,
• 1:08:52
  I'm not arguing the delves. I, I'm not arguing the delves
• 1:08:54
  should be infinitely scalable. I'm also not arguing the delves
• 1:08:56
  should like, I, I would be more than happy if they made it so
• 1:09:00
  the delves could continue on longer.
• 1:09:02
  And this like there was more levels and more gear that you
• 1:09:04
  were getting out of them at higher levels and you were able
• 1:09:06
  to push further in delves. But also like I, I think, I
• 1:09:11
  think 5 lives is far too much. And I think first of all, I
• 1:09:14
  think the kid things will have to kill you more and I want that
• 1:09:16
  to happen. And I also think I, I want to
• 1:09:18
  fail adults. I would like adults to feel
• 1:09:20
  failable. At the higher levels, I think as
• 1:09:24
  you start going into 9/10/11, I believe you start with less
• 1:09:29
  lives. I think it's like 5 lives at 8
• 1:09:32
  and like at 11 you start with like 3 lives and you might be
• 1:09:36
  able to gain a life once you get to the mid.
• 1:09:37
  No, you do get it. Gain a life through it.
• 1:09:40
  You can gain a life when you get to the midpoint or something
• 1:09:42
  like that. Yeah, exactly right.
• 1:09:45
  I I, I will say I'm not like it's, I don't, if I'm not
• 1:09:48
  getting anything out of something, I'm probably not
• 1:09:50
  gonna do it in World of Warcraft or unless like sometimes I'll do
• 1:09:54
  like story stuff just for the story of the story.
• 1:09:56
  But like, I'm probably not gonna do challenge motels because
• 1:09:58
  like, yeah, like I could, but like I.
• 1:10:01
  Could offer cosmetic. It doesn't need to be power
• 1:10:04
  though. It doesn't need to be power cuz
• 1:10:05
  soon as you put power people get really bent out of shape.
• 1:10:09
  Yeah, but it's not end game content if it doesn't offer and
• 1:10:11
  like, like the and again, I, I, I hear you that maybe the the
• 1:10:15
  differences aren't quite as big as I thought, but I think I
• 1:10:18
  think being like, oh, no, you single, like solo players, you
• 1:10:22
  guys. Yeah, you're not going to get
• 1:10:23
  like gear out of it, but you can keep doing it to higher levels.
• 1:10:26
  Like, yeah, girl, we played alone anyway.
• 1:10:28
  Like we were used to not getting gear out of this.
• 1:10:30
  Like that's going to help me. But like, look at Mythic Plus,
• 1:10:34
  how many people will push way beyond the point where they're
• 1:10:37
  getting gear, right? Because they are like, they want
• 1:10:40
  to challenge themselves, they want a title, they want to
• 1:10:42
  mount, they want portals, have power.
• 1:10:45
  But like all the other stuff is so cosmetic, right?
• 1:10:47
  I'm not anti challenge mode for the people who want challenge
• 1:10:50
  mode. I'm arguing the tell like like
• 1:10:53
  that single play, like solo players should be able to push
• 1:10:57
  for gear and benefits for longer, right?
• 1:11:00
  That it shouldn't be like, well, you get challenge mode like,
• 1:11:02
  yeah, like we're not going to give you gear.
• 1:11:03
  You're not going to get anything out of it, but you could do it.
• 1:11:05
  You have challenge modes, right? Like I, I, I hear you that
• 1:11:08
  that's like I, I, I, I'm not saying that we should do away
• 1:11:10
  with challenge modes and delves because I don't do them.
• 1:11:13
  I'm arguing for higher levels of delves that do include gearing
• 1:11:17
  and do include power and, and give me more to do as a solo
• 1:11:22
  player for a longer period of time.
• 1:11:24
  And then they can go into challenge modes that I won't do,
• 1:11:26
  you know? OK, I was thinking that you
• 1:11:30
  would do your eights or elevens or whatever they say the cap is
• 1:11:35
  for gear so that you could then push through the challenge modes
• 1:11:38
  and get your like cosmetics and titles and stuff in the
• 1:11:43
  challenge modes where it's like, OK, I'm going to farm out my
• 1:11:47
  like elevens and get it and get all those upgrades and get my my
• 1:11:50
  6 out of 6 heroic gear set up so that now I can push through and
• 1:11:54
  do gold, gold heroic mode and get like my title.
• 1:11:59
  Hey, this was actually worth it of Alcatraz or whatever.
• 1:12:04
  But like, yeah, like if if your cap is once I don't get any
• 1:12:08
  power out of it. It's not it's not something that
• 1:12:11
  I'm going to be put out to do. I think that's fine.
• 1:12:15
  And I think that's sort of what the game has been heading
• 1:12:19
  towards for a while, ever since they're like, hey, you don't
• 1:12:21
  need to do the story because we're not going to put power
• 1:12:23
  into it. We're not going to put some new
• 1:12:25
  system into every patch that you need to like work through.
• 1:12:29
  The galaggio rewards thing that's in the raid is purely
• 1:12:33
  through rating because in a, in a prior incarnation of the game
• 1:12:37
  that would have been through doing all the stuff in, in the
• 1:12:40
  undermine. So you'd be like, I've got to
• 1:12:42
  work on my my renowned track so that I get all this power in the
• 1:12:46
  raid. So I think what you're saying is
• 1:12:53
  healthy, especially since we began this episode with the oh,
• 1:12:57
  but I could be delving. I could be doing mythic plus, I
• 1:12:59
  could be doing all of this stuff.
• 1:13:00
  The fact that the delves aren't pushing you to go all the way to
• 1:13:05
  14 because you could be getting power in that conceit sounds
• 1:13:10
  healthy. But then why do those people who
• 1:13:16
  play with groups get power higher?
• 1:13:19
  This is my argument. I if I only want to play for
• 1:13:21
  power, I should be able to get at least like roughly in the
• 1:13:25
  same ballpark as the people who only want to play for power in
• 1:13:30
  five player content or I I guess to be fair, there isn't really a
• 1:13:33
  a challenge mode in rating, but like I.
• 1:13:38
  This is a challenge mode. Right.
• 1:13:40
  Well, no, but you, you get rewards for Mythic Manny the and
• 1:13:46
  like I, I will say one thing that I'm learning through this
• 1:13:49
  conversation is I think that my sense of how skewed Delves were
• 1:13:52
  versus mythic plus is perhaps off.
• 1:13:54
  I do think it's skewed, especially because Delves cap
• 1:13:58
  out at about the level where mythic plus begins, since it
• 1:14:01
  sounds like Delves cap out at about two.
• 1:14:04
  And that's like technically M0 exists, but by and large, that's
• 1:14:07
  where mythic plus starts. But I we'll accept the argument
• 1:14:14
  that to some extent I'm being unreasonable about how behind
• 1:14:17
  solo players are. I just think that solo players
• 1:14:19
  should be low. Like if, if at the very least,
• 1:14:22
  if we're going to say we have given solo players end game
• 1:14:26
  content, that end game content cannot be at the level that
• 1:14:30
  multi like group players begin. You know what I'm saying?
• 1:14:34
  It's not. That's not end game content,
• 1:14:36
  that's mid game content like that beginning of the game
• 1:14:39
  content. Like, OK, like for for people
• 1:14:44
  pursuing power, I can see that that construction of it.
• 1:14:48
  And I would also say that like your impression of mythic plus
• 1:14:52
  is not out of thin air. It is because in season 1, the
• 1:14:58
  stuff that you were getting out of of end of end of dungeon,
• 1:15:06
  sorry, rather end of dungeon 7 was about where you would end up
• 1:15:13
  with delves. And so people were jumping from
• 1:15:15
  Delves right in the sevens and that was causing an issue.
• 1:15:17
  So they've clearly made that shift so that people aren't
• 1:15:20
  going from delves right into the middle of of mythic plus.
• 1:15:25
  And I could, I could see why that is suddenly like jarring,
• 1:15:29
  jarring for you. But I'd like to list, I'd like
• 1:15:33
  to hear from the listeners, where do you think Delves should
• 1:15:36
  fit, both in terms of the rewards you should get from it
• 1:15:41
  and also the difficulty that it should land?
• 1:15:44
  Do you think Season 2 is underpowered?
• 1:15:47
  Do you think that it should go further?
• 1:15:50
  Do you think that it should be closer to Season 1?
• 1:15:53
  And again, let us know. Join the discord at bit dot LY
• 1:15:58
  slash fast discord. And until next week, guys, may
• 1:16:02
  all your hits be quits.