Latest / Drive with John Perlman / A Song, A Book and A Dish - Lee Cole, Musician

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A Song, A Book and A Dish - Lee Cole, Musician · Drive with John Perlman

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Let's do what we do every Friday. We call it
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: a song, a book, and a dish. And we spend
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: some time talking to somebody who you may know or
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: you've heard about. But either way, whether you know them
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: well or think you know them well, there's plenty more
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: to find out about them. My next guest is making
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: some really interesting and exciting music, and he's just put
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: out a brand new EP. It's called Letters to Myself.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: When he's not making music, he's playing a certain kind
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: of hockey on roller skates. He is Lee Cole, and
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: he's with us on 702 Drive to share with us
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: his song, his book, and his dish.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Lee, welcome. It's great to have you with us.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: Hey, what's up? Thanks for having me, man.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: So tell us this.
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, growing up in the south side of Joburg
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: in Turfentane, what kind of music are you hearing when
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: you're younger? And is there anything there that's saying to you, hmm,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I don't only want to enjoy music, I want to
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: make it?
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I was introduced to a wide range
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: of musical influences from an early age. My parents were
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: big in the 80s and 70s. You know, they loved
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: that kind of era of music. And it's one of
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: my favorites, too. So growing up, I was always exposed to,
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: you know, like Michael Jackson, ACDC, a wide range of stuff,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: together with a lot of Portuguese folklore music, because obviously
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: I'm Portuguese. So being that, you know, being exposed to
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: all that, it kind of creates a very big melting
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: pot of inspiration.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: So at some point, you do what? You sing or
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: you do something? Did somebody say, hey, you know what, Lee,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: you could maybe be quite good at this? Or was
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: it much more slow inch by inch than that?
• 1:38
  Speaker 3: I would say that when I was seven, I started like,
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: you know, singing and we all see these famous artists
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: on TV and it kind of inspires you as a
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: little kid. But when I was around 10 years old,
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: that's kind of when the buck bit me and I
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: asked my mom to, you know, to start vocal lessons.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: And so she was at a robot the one day
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: and a gentleman was handing out pamphlets and lo and behold,
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: it was for a vocal coach. And that's pretty much
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: where my journey began. So I started singing at the
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: age of 10. Okay. But when I started writing music,
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: I would say, at around the age of 14, I
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: think that's when it kind of really settled in as
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to me deciding, okay, this is actually what I want
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: to do for the rest of my life. I just
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: think the process and the art of creating music from
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: scratch is something that's just always encapsulated in me. So
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: it's something that I'm probably going to do till the
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: day I die.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah. So your parents did some interesting things.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Your dad, Jock, your mom, Carla, your dad had his
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: own IT software company. And your mom currently is running
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a restaurant still down in the south in the Wemipan area.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: I mean, what were you learning from them as they're
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: going about their business?
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: I would say the number one thing I probably learned
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: from my parents was probably hard work and that, you know,
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: you don't really get anywhere unless you're putting in the hours,
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: you know. And so I've always kind of been exposed
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: to that. My dad's always been in the IT software
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: space and my mom's, you know, tended to float around
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: the medical space. So now they're in different phases of
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: their lives, but the hard work never stops. So growing up,
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I was always exposed to a relentless work ethic and
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: that's kind of stuck with me ever since.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I want to talk food now because, you know, I,
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: Turf and Teen, when I heard that you grew up there,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: and I'm a lot older than you, but a couple
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: of things pop into my head. Going to football at
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Rand Stadium, going ice skating at Wembley, and then in
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: the latter part of my life, just going to fabulous
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: Portuguese restaurants. You've picked as your favorite dish, traditional Portuguese
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: codfish dish. Is that bacalhau?
• 3:38
  Speaker 3: That's right. Yes, sir.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir. Okay.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And you've got all the trimmings there, baked potatoes, boiled eggs, cauliflower, broccoli.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You finish it off with olive oil and vinegar. My
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: wife lived in Maputo for many years, so bacalhau is
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: something she looks out for as well. But let's go
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to the Kwambra dinner table. What's being served? And more importantly, you,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: your younger brother, your mom and your dad, what are
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: you guys talking about there?
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: To be honest, we … Growing up, we used to
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: eat a lot together as a family, like for dinner
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: and stuff like that. But as we got older, time
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: just seems to escape us and we don't do it
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: so much anymore, sadly. But back in the day, it
• 4:17
  Speaker 3: was a lot of fish throughout the week. My mom
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: was a big believer in eating fish during the week.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: So we'd balance that out with beef occasionally or chicken occasionally,
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: but it was mainly fish dishes. And we would just
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: discuss the day, you know, how school went, how work went,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: anything dramatic happened. And just a typical, you know, family conversation.
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: But we had a predominantly a lot of. Fish meals,
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: I would say. Yeah.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: And tell me, the other place that comes to mind
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: when I think Joburg South is the Portuguese Hall. I
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: don't know. I haven't been that way for quite a
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: while except to the horses. But you're playing rink hockey.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: First of all, for people who don't know the game,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: tell us briefly what it is. But were you learning
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: that in the Portuguese Hall or somewhere else?
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we're still playing that very Portuguese Hall.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: So it's crazy you say that. But yeah, ring hockey
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: is a sport on roller skates. So it's not rollerblades,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: it's on roller skates. And it was a sport actually
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: brought to Africa by the Portuguese early on in the
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: 60s and 50s. And it's stayed ever since. And now,
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: although the sport has gotten a lot smaller through the years,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: it's pretty much one of my favorite sports to play.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: And through the years, I've been blessed to travel to
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: many countries playing international tournaments. So it's one of my
• 5:34
  Speaker 3: favorite things to do. every year or every two years
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: because the World Cup is every two years. And next
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: year will be the African Cup of Nations, which I
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: think might be in Cairo in Egypt. So we are
• 5:45
  Speaker 3: constantly traveling. I've just got it back from Paraguay about
• 5:47
  Speaker 3: two weeks ago. So it's a cool little nugget that
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: I get to look forward to every once.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: In a while.
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: Tell me how music comes to you.
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: Are you wake up in the middle of the night, songs,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: melodies bothering you and you've got to sing it into
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: your phone? Or is it a conscious process where you
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: sit down and say, okay, got to create something?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: To be honest, people ask me this question all the
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: time and every writer's got their way about writing music.
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: But I would say for me primarily, you can either
• 6:22
  Speaker 3: make time for it like a very structured– weekly thing,
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: we sit down and try and write a song, or
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: you wait for a wave of inspiration to hit. And
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: usually those, you know, they kind of get you that
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: the stronger ideas, the stronger songs. But for me, it
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: all starts with melody. So I'll be anywhere, at a
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: restaurant with family or wherever. And the melody first pops
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: in my head, because I'm a big believer in melody first.
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: And once I've got a cool melody that I think
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: could really become very hooky or get stuck in people's minds,
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: I then decide, okay, In terms of subject material, what
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: have I experienced in the past six months or year
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: or two weeks or whatever? And then I decide, okay,
• 7:01
  Speaker 3: what can I write about that would suit the way
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: this music sounds or this melody sounds? And that's typically
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: how I've gone about writing my music through the years.
• 7:10
  Speaker 3: Other times it can be a drum sample, a cool
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: little groove that a drummer is playing that kind of
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: inspires something. But for me mainly, usually my two go-to
• 7:19
  Speaker 3: instruments would have to be guitar and piano, piano being
• 7:23
  Speaker 3: number one and guitar second. And both instruments can give
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: you a completely different feeling and vibe.
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, with the same melody, drawing it out of you
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: in different ways.
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: Correct.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: I want to sort of ask you this in relation
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: to the creation of music. I mean, you've just put
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: out your brand new EP. It's called Letters to Myself.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: People look out for that. How do you know when
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: something's ready? Is it hard to let things go? Presumably,
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: you've got people who you're working with saying, come, come, Lee,
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: you know, Christmas is coming. Let's get this ready. Is
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: it hard to let things go? And how do you
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: know when they're ready to, when you're ready to say
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: goodbye to your kids?
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: That's such a good question. I've always had a I
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: love story with my music because at the end of
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: the day, when you're writing and creating songs, at the
• 8:15
  Speaker 3: end of the day, when you release them, you are releasing,
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: like you say, like a piece of you, like a kit,
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: you know. Yes. You always want it to do well.
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: It's an artist's biggest curse to attach some sort of
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: expectation on the art that they create. But I found
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: that in time, and as I've gotten older and as
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: I've been in this game for a little bit longer,
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: I find that oftentimes– In the past, I used to
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: be very attached to what I released and very anxious
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: of what if it does well, what if people don't
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: like it. And that can be quite a daunting process
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: to get over and get accustomed to. And my answer
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: to your question would be, once you create a song now,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: this current version of Lee, I tend to let go
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: of my song immediately. Once I've done all I could
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: in the time that I wrote it, in the kind
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: of time block that I had to create it, I
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: then say to myself, well, I've I've just done everything
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: that I could possibly do to make this the best
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: version of it.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So now that.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: I release it into the world, it's no longer in
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: my hands. It's other people's problems now. I think as
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: you get older, you get used to that feeling a
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: lot more. Yeah.
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: I want to ask you about the book you've chosen.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Quite a few of our guests are drawn to The
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: Alchemist by Paulo Coelho.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: Why is that book special to you?
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: I've just, I've always been a dreamer. I've always been
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: somebody that, even sometimes against all odds or against, you know,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: going against the grain with where other people see things.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: I've always believed in magic. I've always believed in visualization and,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: you know, anything that people want, it starts with your
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: internal belief of how you see the world and what
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: you think you can achieve. And I think that book
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: is kind of an ode to that of throughout life's journey,
• 10:03
  Speaker 3: we'll have these ambitions and things we want to achieve.
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, it just comes
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: down to alchemy. It's not about where you end up
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: or what you get to achieve. It's about who you
• 10:12
  Speaker 3: become in the process and how you've changed yourself from
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: a little starting little rock to a polished diamond at
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the end of. of, you know, of your lifespan. So
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: that book, when I read it, it kind of just,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: you know, just, I don't know, just reaffirmed my beliefs
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: and reaffirmed, okay, there's another human being that kind of
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: sees things the same way, you know, it's kind of
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: alluding to the fact that it all starts in your
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: thoughts and the quality of your thoughts. So that's why
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: that's one of my favorite books. And I can see
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: why it was a bestseller.
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: I would have thought when we asked you to choose
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: a song, you probably thought, seriously? After all the songs
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: I've heard. Or maybe it just came quickly. But it's
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: a terrific tune, actually, that's really stood the test of time.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: Niles Barkley, Crazy. Tell us why that came front and
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: center when we put the question to you.
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: I don't know. I've just always been so drawn to
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: that song ever since I was a kid. I think
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: I was in grade five. We were actually on our
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: way home when I first heard it on the, And
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: I just remember thinking, that's so different, so interesting. And now,
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: like 20 years later, almost 30 years later, it's interesting
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: to see how it still holds and how it almost,
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: it's a bit timeless for me. Like I feel like
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: I could play it in 20, 30 years and it
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: would still, you know, resonate with people in that time.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: So it's one of my favorites. It's got a little
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: bit of soul, a little bit of pop, and it's just,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: you know how you know a song is good is
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: when you can sing it on guitar or piano alone
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: on its own. And it still sounds good. And it's
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: just one of those songs for me.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: Well, it is one of those songs for many, many,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: many people as well. And let's hope that some tracks
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: from Letters to Myself, Lee Cole will become one of
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: those songs as well. But thank you so much for
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: spending time with us on 702 Drive. Thanks for sharing
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: with us your song, your book and your dish. And
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll talk again. Appreciate your time.
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: Anytime. Thanks for having me. Right.
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: That's Lee Cole. And this is the song he chose.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm sure you'll agree with him. In 30 years' time,
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: Niles Barkley is going to sound as good as it
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: sounds right now.