Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Happy Hour 216#: Fanfiction Specifications

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Happy Hour 216#: Fanfiction Specifications · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha. I'm all for stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I never told you production of iHeartRadio, and welcome to
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: another edition of Happy Hour. As always with these, if
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: you are choosing to drink or whatever you're choosing to do,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: please do so responsibly. Samantha, are you up to anything?
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Bubblewater my good old bubble.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Water red wine also a classic, Yes, keeping it? Yes, Yes,
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: that is what we are doing today. I have to
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: say this episode, I did a lot more writing than
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: I normally do for a Happy Hour h And also,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: I just want to say I'm not a lawyer. My
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: dad really wanted me to be one. He was one,
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: but that is not what the path like took me down. Okay, Yes,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: So a couple of you wrote in about our fan
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: fiction and censorship episode and about a comment I made
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: about copyright, and so I wanted to clarify some things
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: when it comes to copyright and fan fiction. But I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: do want to say copyright law is complicated and disputed.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: So there's that, and yes, I am not a lawyer.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: So if you, as I said at the end of
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: that of that episode, if you would like to learn
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: more about fan fiction and copyright, specifically from all angles
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: from the fan fiction author's perspective and from the original
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: creator's perspective. You can go to AO three. They have
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: a whole list of resources and a bunch of FAQ
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: so if you would like to do that, you can.
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: But very basically, I forget that people have not been
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: People don't know about what's going on with fan fiction,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: and they haven't been in this world as long as
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I have, which was two thousand that's when I first
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: started reading fan fiction. Plus I do have to go
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: through classes for work on copyright and related issues since
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: twenty ten, which I have to say, I actually think
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: I'm a bit more nervous than a lot of our
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: coworkers because remember when we were writing our book, Yeah,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: and we had the illustration of Princess Leiah, and I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: was the one that was like Disney's litigious, I don't
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: know that this is legit. I don't know that we
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: can do this, and everybody was like, ah, it's transformative,
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: which is what we're about to get into. So, yes,
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: fan fiction has been generally accepted as legal in the
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: United States and many other places for a while now.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: As long as it is transformative, some people writing fan
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: fiction go out of their way to credit the original creators,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: like they'll be like George Lucas did all this credit
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: to him. But most of the time, I feel like,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: if you're there reading it, you already know who created it,
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: and that's not going to protect you in any legal way,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: can't hurt. I'm not saying don't do it. I just
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: don't think in the scheme of things that that's really
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: making it a big change. Although I have to say
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: I have encountered a lot of younger readers especially who
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: are like, I've never interacted with this actual media. I've
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: only interacted with the fan fiction. Right. Did I find
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: really interesting that whole thing of like crediting the creators
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: was really big in the early two thousands, which I'll
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: get into more why in a second. But I do
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: still see it today. So judges can enter her transformative
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: in different ways. So I suppose in theory you can
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: argue that fan fiction isn't legal. I would actually add
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: non commercial in there. We do not make money off
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: of fan fiction. AO three has strict rules around not
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: making money off of fan fiction. Once the money starts
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: getting made, that's when companies step in. Although there are
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: playing a fan fiction based on copyrighted materials that got
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: made into books and movies after changing the names of
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: the characters Ray Lo or Kylo, ren and Ray is
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: a big one right now, Jermiine or Draco and Hermione
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: or Edward and Bella Samantha. Do they have a ship name?
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I don't know it would it be bell Lord.
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: I don't think there is a ship name. With the
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: fact that Rennette it may exist. Who is the like
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: the worst name? Ever, I don't think they did a ship.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: I could be wrong because I'm not in beyond Gee.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: I can't say I'm not into fan fiction because technically
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Twilight is fan fiction as well as the fact that
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: I want read other things that she wrote that were
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: pertaining that felt like fan fiction of Twilight as well,
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: even though it was her whatever that is not I
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: know anyway, I don't know this answer to that.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I've never heard it.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: They don't seem to have like a natural one. No, yes,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: but kay Christina.
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: Is yeah, Christina might know as as saying rinesme.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: Of course, of course, But more about all of that
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: at the end, we are talking about fan fiction today.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But this does relate to other things like drag shows, plays,
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: bands like if you go to I've been to a
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: lot of plays that are based on copyrighted material, things
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: like that. I believe we discussed this in our History
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: of fan fiction Episodes are or We also did a
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: history of AO three specifically, but the legality of fan
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: works has gone to court and one before AO three
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: as a whole legal team that tackles this and other things.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: This was a big thing in the early two thousands
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: when everybody was like, George locus Osys, don't sue me.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: And that's when people had more access to the internets,
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: and specifically Harry Potter. Fan fiction in particular was blowing up.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: And we'll get We'll talk more about that in a
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: second too, But I am getting ahead of myself from
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: AO three. Quote copyright protects an individual's expression of an idea,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: not the idea itself. Expression refers to the work created,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: such as the wording of a paragraph in a book,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: while an idea covers general plots or tropes. For example,
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: posting a transcript of a movie without permission constitute copyright
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: infringement as it replicates a significant part of the original work.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: The spoken dialogue exactly in comparison, a transformative fan work
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: reframes existing material in a unique manner, such as retelling
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a superhero movie from the perspective of civilians. The Supreme
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Court of the United States has explained transformative youth as
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: quote adding something new with a further purpose or different character,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: altering the first work with new expression, meaning, or message.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Essentially by significantly reinterpreting the original material, the creator of
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: a transformative work makes a new, distinct creation that does
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: not require the copyright owners permission to create or share.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: There are some more specific rules around how much direct
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: dialogue our content you can pull. Again. AO three has
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: more on that, if you're interested. I actually learned a
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: lot more about fan fiction researching this, because I've never
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: done one that had a lot of dialogue directly in it,
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: and I didn't know there were specific rules around that.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: It also has to be fiction, it can't be nonfiction.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: In the early two thousands, there were a few lawsuits
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: around things like fan produced encyclopedias and cookbooks, but again,
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: they were making money and they were not necessar saily transformative.
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: I think some of them won their lawsuits, though, are
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: the lawsuits were dropped because I definitely have a Harry
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Potter fan encyclopedia. That was they were sued, do we
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: have a cookbook? I have a cookbook?
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: Yes, I was thinking on our Supernatural cookbook.
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I'm not as clear on that, but I just
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: remember this coming up because this was at the early
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: two thousands. As I said, Harry Potter fan fiction was
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: really big. So JK. Rowling, she must not be named,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: she started to like she was going back and forth
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: about what she thought about fan works and fan fiction,
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: and she sued a couple of entities, but I think
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: they all got dropped because she decided it wasn't worth it,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: which we're also going to talk about a second. But yeah,
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: that's definitely allowed now. Although I again, because we were
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: talking to our coworker Holly about this, you know, like
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: Disney's not going to let you make a Star Wars
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: cocktail book without their permission, right, Yeah, So I'm not
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: as clear on whatever's going on there, but it was
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: involved in this whole conversation. One of the things that
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: comes up a lot in this conversation too, is that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: targeting non commercial fan fiction wasn't a good look, especially
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: within fantoms. So yes, corporations largely gave in, and creators
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: have different views on fan fiction, and that is completely
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: their prerogative. Another thing we're not going to go to
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: in depth here, but I do think is related is
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: fair use. So fair use is this idea that you
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: can use clips of things or samples of music as
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: long long as you're commenting on it directly. We have
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to know a lot about this for our job, but
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the fun thing is it's the wild world of bust.
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: Nobody knows, and it's not actually a legal protection. It's
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: more of an understanding. And we've been told by our
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: lawyers to like, if you can, just don't do it.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: But there are some shows that are music based and
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: they're like, what are we supposed to do?
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: Right?
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: Also, yeah, yes, yes, this is also different than plagiarism,
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: which is all other can of worms, But that kind
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: of comes into this conversation sometimes as well. I generally
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: don't see most people what I read is very different
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: than the original material. It's not like they're just took
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: the script and maybe put like one different thing. It's
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: very different. Oh, and I would argue most big franchises
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and a lot more are sanctioned fan fiction I think
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: they're fan fiction, but that's for another day. And we
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: had a whole list of them in our history of
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: fan fiction episodes. So actually, I would say our upcoming
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: feminist movie, Friday Aliens, is a recursive fan fiction. I'll
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: talk about that more in that. Oh yeah, when something
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: enters the public domain, here's another thing. People can make
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: transformative works off off of that that can also make
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: money without potentially ending up in a lawsuit like you
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: might if it wasn't in the public domain. You might
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: have seen those kind of wild Winnie the Pooh horror movies,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: or you probably haven't, but I have.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I have not.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: No, you didn't know about this. It's called the pouniverse.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I'm gonna tell you all about this later.
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: I tell you all about this. So you have to
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: be careful about which edition you use when it comes
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: to public domain, because some editions aren't public domain, even
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: if it's the same material. This is something Samantha and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: I also have to be very cautious about at our job,
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: and this is why we were able to read a
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: certain edition of Frankenstein's Monster Frankenstein, but we had to
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: choose which one A three has rules about using works
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: in public domain too. It still has to be a
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: fan work. You can't just post the whole thing without
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: changing anything, which I'm not sure why you'd want to,
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: but they have rules about not doing that. However, plenty
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: of fan fiction not based off the public domain have
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: made a ton of money. And more on that in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: a second. So I think this is what got people
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: riled up when I said I owe my fan I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: obviously do not own the characters or universe of Star Wars.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: What that means is that the platform hosting it, AO three,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: is relinquishing ownership to me because they are not legally
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: going to intervene on my behalf. If someone takes my
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: fan fiction word for word without permission or credit and
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: puts it on another platform, that's pretty much up to
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: me to resolve if that happens to me through platform
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: mechanisms and is an uphill battle. Unless the person who
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: stole it, who posted it word for word without my permission,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: if they start making money off of it, that's a
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: whole other can of worms. That's a mess. But AO
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: three does not have a process for this. And also,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: if you do make it big with your fanficy, you
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: own it, not AO three, So you get your fifty
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: shades of gray money. And people can and do make
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: fan fiction of fan fiction. Sometimes I write the ending
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: to abandon fan fiction. I lost one the other day.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: It was so sad. I've never posted these, but I
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: write them.
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: For like Cathartic, you need to need closure.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's considered polite to get permission from the
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: original author for that if you can find them. But
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: it's not necessary for recursive fan fiction. So recursive fan
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: fiction is a sequel, the prequel like, not a rewrite,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: not coming from the direct source material. You're you're doing
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: something else. And obviously not everyone obeys these rules. Some
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: fan fiction's inspired whole fan fiction universes of their own,
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: and we have all read the one that started all.
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: Some of them have acronyms, and I'm like, what does
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: this mean? And I go down this whole rabbit hole.
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: But those are still transformative, not word for word. There
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: are translations to which you're also supposed to ask permission for.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So when I was talking about this, I was talking
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: about how somebody asked me to make a podfic of
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: my work, which that is a derivative work that means
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: they're just like literally taking something I did and then
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: doing something else with what I did. That's different than
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: recursive work. So they're supposed to ask for permission. Some
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: authors will do something they call blanket permission, which they'll
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: just say at the top, I give blanket permission. Sometimes
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: they'll say like, please just credit me, or please just
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: do this right again. Not everybody follows those rules, but
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: people will do that too. I find it's interesting because
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: there's a whole category of fan fiction called react to.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: I guess fix it could fall into that as well,
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: but react to fan fictions are like, I don't know,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the characters go in the past and they watch the
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: movie or something, and they are like, how could this happen?
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: We have to fix this, so that requires a lot
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: of kind of direct pulling from the source material. AO
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: three had a whole section on that and how to
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: do that and not get in trouble, And they had
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: a whole section on fanvids, which is also we're largely
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: talking about fan fiction written fan fiction right now, but
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: a lot more things are impacted by this then than
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: just that, and fanvids is one. But yes, I do
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: find it ironic when people get mad about people writing
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: fan fiction up their work when their work was originally
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: fan fiction. I think that's different than word for word
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: copy and representing it as your own. I do I
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: feel bad personally if I don't credit somebody for an
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: inspiring an idea that I had in one chapter of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: a thirty chapter work, which did.
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: Happen, and I still feel bad about it.
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: But yeah, as I've been mentioning, there are fan fictions
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: that were made demonstrably, provably from copyrighted characters in fan
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: fiction that are very popular franchises, movies, books, what have you.
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: The most famous example, I think is Twilight fifty Shades
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: of Gray, as we talked about in our Twilight episodes.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: The author has said it came to her in a dream,
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: but most of us are pretty sure. But well, most
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of us who were like around in the fan fiction
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: days are pretty sure it was a fan fiction. But
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: sheet and this is the thing. Once you get big,
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a lot of people delete their fan fiction, either because
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: they don't want people to know it was a fan fiction,
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: or maybe it's this whole copyright thing. Maybe they're worried.
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm kind of confused about it though,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: because some of them are way more obvious now. Anyway,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: Fifty Shades of Gray was definitely in interviews, has been
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: proven was a fan fiction of Twilight. So Twilight is
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: thought to be a Draco Hermione and then fifty Shades
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: of Gray as Bella and Edward. So just changed the
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: character names and you put them in different situations. They
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: were transformative, they were different. Love hypothesis. I haven't read
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: or seen, but it's a ray Loo. It's kyler N
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: and Ray from Star Wars, and it's clear it's about them,
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: just based on the cover. It looks like the actors.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: It is a fan art that is on the cover,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: and I think it even says from Watpad like people
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: are like I said, pan fiction has got more mainstream. No, hey,
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: people love it. It's getting made into a movie, and yeah,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: they make so much money. I guess. I went back
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and forth when I was thinking about this, and I
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: was like, well, kind of if it's non commercial, and
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: I was like, but there's been plenty of commercial examples
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: in its copyrighted characters they're working off of. So I
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: just think I do think, like when if I'm looking
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: at Twilight and thinking about Harry Potter. I think it's transformative.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: I think it's different. That's a different thing, even if
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: it started from that place, right, I think it's a
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: different thing. There are also compelling arguments for older historical
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: examples too, like Lord of the Flies and Call of
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: the Wild, which took very specifically from certain other works
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: at a time, and I think Call the Wild got
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: wrapped up in a whole legal battle about it again
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: see here fan Fiction episodes. We talked about that more
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: in there. We also talked about this in those episodes.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: But generally the historical attitude has been that when men
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: write fan fiction, it's legit and definitely not fan fiction,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: but when women do it, it's trash and illegal and
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: she can't come up with a single idea of her own.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: So there's that. And there are more examples of fan
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: fiction in your media than you think. And sometimes creators
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: take inspiration from fan fiction. So Star Trek three, for example,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: was inspired by a fan poem, and some big creators
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: throughout time have written fan fiction themselves, which I always
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: interested to hear. Some of the big ones right now
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: are RPF, which is real person fiction. So like Harry
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: Styles one direct a lot of like, if he looked
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: up what current movies are based on fan fiction or whatever,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: A lot of them are Harry styles one direction fan fiction.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm not as confident in knowing copyright and.
• 21:17
  Speaker 5: That, but.
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: I do. I believe it's probably legal. I'm just not
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: as well versed in like the copyright of a person,
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, right. Also, I learned through
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: this that My Immortal, which is one of the most
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: notoriously poorly written fan fictions of all time, has a
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: Wikipedia page and a couple of books written about it.
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: I've heard this title. I mean, it's definitely a song too, but.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, and it's by Evans and she's been interviewed about
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: it and she had to read it because she's like
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: I kept getting asked about this.
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: So it was it was written before she's her song
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: became popular.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I think so because it was an early it was
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: the early days of Harry Potter fan fiction. I can't
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: remember when My Immortal got blew up.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: My high school days, so.
• 22:15
  Speaker 5: Oh well, at the same time as yeah, Hay Potter,
• 22:18
  Speaker 5: I think it was. I read it just for just
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: for research purposes. There's a lot of back and forth
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: about who wrote it. There's a lot of controversy about
• 22:32
  Speaker 5: who wrote it, because some people have come forward and
• 22:34
  Speaker 5: said it was me. Yeah, but it's and there's been
• 22:40
  Speaker 5: podcasts where people just read that and I'm not sure.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I guess if you're.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: Coming, can you do a reading on it?
• 22:48
  Speaker 5: Oh?
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: No, you wouldn't believe. It's wild about the It's like
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: my chemical romance comes to Hogwarts and she's kids Hogwarts.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, cool?
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One other thing I jokingly said, I don't even
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: know how people find straight fan fiction because it's such
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: a queer space. But there are huge ships that are straight.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I just find that overall even those even those might
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: be less than straight, like thereby or they have a
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: lot more gay ships in them than the source material.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: So like if even if one of them, if the
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: main one is straight, there's a bunch of other gay
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: couples in there. Just overall, there are a lot more
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: gay relationships than mainstream media. And I am not in
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: those straight spaces. They are always secondary couples for me,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: So to me, I'm like, what Okay. So, as I
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: discussed in the episode about fan fiction and censorship, there
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: are some proposed loss that could impact all of this.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: We even talked about some of the copyright laws being
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: proposed that could impact all of this, and that's what
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: I was talking about at the end when I said
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: that AO three has a lot of source material explaining
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: what's going on and monitoring what's going on, and not
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: the copyright of fan fiction authors, because as I said,
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: that was all news to me, because they do think
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: that fan fiction authors should have copyright. I never imagined
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: ever that I'd own anything in my fan fiction, and
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I imagine most people are the same. I think most
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: people probably don't even think about it. But this is
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: the general situation as of now. I know it's messy.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Please go see AO three for more. Literally everything I
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned here has more specific rules and they outline them,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: and I did. I did learn a lot. And if
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: the whole transformative protection thing goes away one day, which
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: is possible, it's going to impact a lot more th fiction.
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: That is not the only thing that will be hurt
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: by it. So all right, Ope, I didn't make a bigger,
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: confusing mess out of this, but that is what I
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: have to say for now. Yes, thank you, thank you.
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: If you would like to write into us, you can
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: and our emails Hello at stuff Onever Told You dot com.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Blue skyte moll Stuff podcasts
• 25:26
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• 25:28
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• 25:31
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• 25:32
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• 25:35
  Speaker 1: super roduced Christina and exective producer My and your contributor Joey.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Thank you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I
• 25:41
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