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Best Of: Jeffrey Shaw: Living the Self-Employed Life · The Daily Writer

0:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Writer.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: Each weekday, we bring you a short lesson that helps you live out the four practices of a great writer: creativity, consistency, courage, and connection.
0:20
SPEAKER_00: Here on the weekend edition, we take a deeper dive into those topics through conversations with notable writers, as well as teaching that helps us apply what we're learning.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: For more, you can visit us at dailywriterlife.com.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: You know, one of the themes of this podcast is simply courage.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: I want you to consistently do things that scare you, that intimidate you.
0:44
SPEAKER_00: But why is that?
0:45
SPEAKER_00: It's because when you do things that feel intimidating or scary, you accomplish greater things and you increase your capacity to impact other people's lives.
0:54
SPEAKER_00: And I believe that you can only make a bigger impact when you do things that are uncomfortable and you take a risk.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I'm really excited to feature this conversation with my friend Jeffrey Shaw.
1:05
SPEAKER_00: Jeffrey is a leading voice for self-employed business owners, and his top-rated podcast called The Self-Employed Life is heard in 200 countries by 30,000 listeners a month, and that's pretty amazing.
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Jeffrey is the author of the best-selling book, Lingo, and the much anticipated book, The Self-Employed Life: Business and Personal Development Strategies that create sustainable success.
1:29
SPEAKER_00: And he's also been a featured TEDx speaker.
1:32
SPEAKER_00: Now you might think, what does all this have to do with writing?
1:35
SPEAKER_00: And the way it's related is because we talk a lot on this podcast about the business side of writing.
1:40
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to think more like a business owner, you're going to love this conversation because Jeffrey is not only really successful at what he does, he's also really inspiring and also really, really practical.
1:51
SPEAKER_00: So I asked him some questions really kind of for myself in a way.
1:57
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot, a big part of this podcast is me asking questions that help me to become better.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: And you just kind of get to listen in.
2:03
SPEAKER_00: Now I'm being a little facetious with that, but part of that is definitely true.
2:06
SPEAKER_00: I have guests on who can help answer questions and struggles that I'm going through, things that I want to explore in my own business and writing journey.
2:14
SPEAKER_00: And I hope that these are helpful to you as well.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: And this conversation, I think, is going to be really, really fun for you.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: Jeffrey shares his self-employed ecosystem of personal development, business strategies, and daily habits.
2:27
SPEAKER_00: And as I said, he's been doing this a long time and he's had a lot of success as a self-employed business owner.
2:33
SPEAKER_00: And I've been listening to his show for a long time, and it's been really, really cool to see his growth over the years and the way that he's impacted more and more lives.
2:41
SPEAKER_00: So if you want to take more control over your life and business, get ready to take some notes because Jeffrey shares some great wisdom about the self-employed life.
2:50
SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, let's get right to the conversation.
2:53
SPEAKER_00: Jeffrey, it is an absolute pleasure to have you here on the Daily Writer Podcast.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me.
2:58
SPEAKER_01: Kent, I'm so excited to be here with you.
3:00
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: So I always tell people that one of the main reasons that I do a podcast is I get to talk to really cool people.
3:07
SPEAKER_00: And that really applies in this case because I've been following your podcast and your stuff online for gosh, three or four, maybe five years.
3:16
SPEAKER_00: But this is the first time we've actually engaged in an actual, you know, live setting.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: So uh so this is really fun for me.
3:23
SPEAKER_01: Wow, that's cool.
3:24
SPEAKER_01: I it's you know, it's one of the things I talk about in marketing, is that um what I would call hug marketing, like you don't know who's out there, right?
3:32
SPEAKER_01: And and by being on social media.
3:33
SPEAKER_01: And and so I love hearing that because to me, it's like that's just one that's several steps closer on the journey of hug marketing.
3:40
SPEAKER_01: Like you're no longer just a an observer on the outside that I don't know about, but now you're you're somebody I more deeply connected with.
3:47
SPEAKER_01: So I I love hearing that.
3:48
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
3:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks for sending, by the way, a copy of your uh kind of like a pre-pub copy of your uh upcoming book, The Self-employed Life, as well as something that I absolutely loved and I've never seen before, which is you put together this kind of uh like a 25 or 30 page summary of the book.
4:06
SPEAKER_00: And I just as soon as you sent that, I thought, why doesn't everybody do this?
4:10
SPEAKER_00: Because this is an absolute genius idea.
4:13
SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited about your book launch and the content of the book, and we're gonna dive into some of that today.
4:18
SPEAKER_00: But I do have to ask you right right off the bat though, can you give me a little a little story about how did that how did you have the idea to create kind of a summary guide of that book?
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Because that's a genius idea for podcasters.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree.
4:31
SPEAKER_01: And and like most of our good ideas, they either come from the shower or a mistake.
4:36
SPEAKER_01: In this case, it was a mistake.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: So when I was launching my previous book, Lingo, uh, I was self-publishing, and it was my first time out of the gate.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And I had set a goal as to when I wanted the book to release, but um, you know, I knew nothing about timeline.
4:51
SPEAKER_01: I was working with a fabulous editor who is keeping me on track to a degree.
4:55
SPEAKER_01: The problem I ran into, which is what a the problem a lot of people run run into when they want to be a guest on podcasts, is the lead time.
5:01
SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
5:01
SPEAKER_01: There's you need a good four to six months before that episode is going to broadcast, right?
5:07
SPEAKER_01: Because it might take a, especially nowadays, it may take a month to get a response from a podcast host because it's hard to get emails to get in and get noticed and get your you know, pitch heard.
5:17
SPEAKER_01: And then there may be a it may be a month before you can actually get a mutually agreeable time for the interview.
5:23
SPEAKER_01: And then they have they have their own schedule as to when they can broadcast it.
5:26
SPEAKER_01: So it's a it can be a good four to six monthly time.
5:29
SPEAKER_01: And I realized at some point that I was at a disadvantage when I was launching my book because the book was not going to be at a complete enough stage to provide the hosts with a book.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: So I had this idea uh to create a short summary, and for a lingo, it was only like 12 pages, and it was a huge hit amongst the hosts.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: And I understand why I happened as a host, I happened to read cover to cover every book of every interview I do.
5:55
SPEAKER_01: I happened to love to read as part of my daily habit anyway, but I recognize most hosts that's not going to happen.
6:00
SPEAKER_01: So suddenly this summary became a really it came, it gave the whole concept and everything they needed to know in a shorter form.
6:07
SPEAKER_01: So when it came to doing for the new book, The Self-employed Life, it now I had learned something from that mistake and said, this it worked so well, let's do it again.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh so we crafted it's a 24-page summary that gives a high-level view of uh the overall book.
6:23
SPEAKER_01: So it doesn't require somebody to uh read the entire book.
6:27
SPEAKER_01: And what I also, but it's also enough content.
6:29
SPEAKER_01: Here's what Kent, I think, is a really key component of that.
6:32
SPEAKER_01: It's also enough content to make every conversation unique.
6:35
SPEAKER_01: What I don't like as a podcast host myself is when the publisher sends me the 10 questions that I can ask.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: I figure that that guest is on is being asked the same questions on every show.
6:47
SPEAKER_01: So, how is how is my interview going to be different?
6:50
SPEAKER_01: So the summary is just a great vehicle to make it accessible for hosts and gives enough content that every conversation can be unique.
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, uh, this is like a legit uh a legit document.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is it's not just something that has a couple of bullet points and then it moves on.
7:07
SPEAKER_00: It's not like a uh a PowerPoint presentation on steroids.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: This is a legit thing.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: And actually, it gave me the idea that since I'm a ghostwriter for business clients, I thought, man, this is a service that people really need.
7:20
SPEAKER_00: They need somebody to come in and kind of summarize their book in a great way.
7:23
SPEAKER_00: So I think you've kind of opened in my mind, you've opened the door to a fantastic thing that man, every author ought to have some kind of a similar summary of their book.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: So so I love it and I appreciate you using that, what you would categorize as a mistake to uh create something that's really cool.
7:40
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: And I agree with you.
7:42
SPEAKER_01: I think if you can offer that as a service, I think that's a phenomenal service because really it's all just stuff, it's all content that's copy and pasted from the content of the book and then put into a logical order.
7:52
SPEAKER_01: The challenge for most of us in business and and certainly as a subject matter expert is it's really hard to see ourselves.
8:01
SPEAKER_01: Like the phrase I love to use is the you know, it's hard to read the label from inside the jar.
8:05
SPEAKER_01: It's really hard when it's your own book to pick out 24 pages of the highlighted content.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: Like you really do need somebody else to do it.
8:13
SPEAKER_01: And in both cases, I had an editor help me with it.
8:16
SPEAKER_01: Because there's no way I could pick the highlights because I'm in love with the whole book.
8:19
SPEAKER_00: So God bless the editors of the world because they are priceless.
8:23
SPEAKER_01: I have learned so much through now this being my second book.
8:26
SPEAKER_01: Uh so much about the yeah, the personality and the mindset of an editor, it's pretty fascinating.
8:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's dive into some things from the book that I would love to chat about.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: And again, I appreciate making time to do this interview.
8:38
SPEAKER_00: So you opened this, uh, at least the uh the summary that you sent me, you open it with a really engaging and fascinating story about selling eggs door to door at age 14.
8:50
SPEAKER_00: How did that get you started on an entrepreneurial journey?
8:53
unknown: Yeah.
8:53
SPEAKER_01: And you know, one of the things I love about being self-employed or being on a journey in our lives is that we don't, it's really hard for us to put together our own pieces of the puzzle, right?
9:01
SPEAKER_01: Or connect the dots.
9:02
SPEAKER_01: So this actually came about from being at a dinner party with a bunch of speakers and mentioning that I've never had a job.
9:08
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, What do you mean you've never had a job?
9:10
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I've never gotten a paycheck.
9:12
SPEAKER_01: Like, I've always been self-employed.
9:14
SPEAKER_01: I've never actually had a job where somebody gives me a paycheck.
9:18
SPEAKER_01: And they were like, Well, how can that be?
9:19
SPEAKER_01: I said, Well, I started selling eggs door to door and I started telling this story.
9:23
SPEAKER_01: And people like, this was a couple of years ago, people like, you have got to tell that story.
9:28
SPEAKER_01: And and they were thinking more as a part of a keynote, but it became the opening story in the in the book.
9:33
SPEAKER_01: And I have to say, it's one of those incredible moments in life when somebody points out something to you that's been part of your life that you've not seen the value in it.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: And then as I told the story, I realized, oh my gosh, everything in my life and business is a result of that action at 14 years old.
9:48
SPEAKER_01: So uh, do you do you want me to summarize the story a little bit?
9:51
SPEAKER_03: Sure, that'd be fantastic.
9:52
SPEAKER_01: So I live I grew up in a small town about two hours north of New York City.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: But at the time, that was a world apart from New York City.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: It was farm country.
10:01
SPEAKER_01: And it was this weird existence because my father was one of the first 90 employees at you know what was then a new startup computer company, which became known as IBM.
10:10
SPEAKER_01: Just a little company, right?
10:11
SPEAKER_01: Just a little company.
10:12
SPEAKER_01: But IBM bought masses of pieces of land for the future production plant because it was cheap land, it was farm country.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: So we had this weird existence in my childhood because I literally grew up on and not on a farm, but in an area that was developing well on farm land, very remote.
10:28
SPEAKER_01: We shared our phone number with five or seven other houses.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we shared a phone line.
10:32
SPEAKER_01: So it was very remote.
10:33
SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, my father was bringing home like these high-tech computers and I was learning DOS at eight years old.
10:38
SPEAKER_01: And it was weird dynamic.
10:40
SPEAKER_01: But I had this idea once because I wanted to make some money, as we 14-year-olds want to do, that the one thing that was plentiful growing up in the country were chicken eggs.
10:50
SPEAKER_01: So I thought, well, you know, I my mom buys chicken eggs at the store, but what if I sold them door to door?
10:55
SPEAKER_01: So I struck a deal with a local farmer and he would get the cardboard cartons for me.
10:59
SPEAKER_01: And I would go on Thursdays, my mom would drive me because I was below driving age, and I would sit there and stuff the chickens, the chicken eggs in these cardboard containers.
11:09
SPEAKER_01: And then I would go door to door around my neighborhood.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I would actually drive my mother's car, uh, even though it was only 14, living in the country, nobody's gonna stop you.
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
11:19
SPEAKER_01: So I would drive around neighborhoods selling these eggs door to door.
11:23
SPEAKER_01: Now, Kent, as I reflect back on that experience, here are some of the business lessons I learned.
11:27
SPEAKER_01: For one, I charged$1.25 a dozen, which I have since gone back and Googled and looked it up.
11:33
SPEAKER_01: And the average cost for a dozen of eggs in 1978 was uh 75 cents.
11:38
SPEAKER_01: So I was charging way above market.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: And I knew that, and that was intentional.
11:43
SPEAKER_01: And I knew it was what I also undercame to understand is that what a lot of businesses would assume is that, oh, of course you can charge more.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: It's a door-to-door, it's service.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, but you know what?
11:53
SPEAKER_01: Even in today's world, service is rarely the differentiator.
11:58
SPEAKER_01: Uh, because service can be matched.
11:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, no matter how excellent your service is, your competitor down the street can match that service.
12:03
SPEAKER_01: The differentiator was farm fresh.
12:06
SPEAKER_01: I was literally decades ahead of cage-free eggs and farm fresh, because most of the people living in that area, like my family, were New Yorkers from New York City, transplanted up to the country and looking around, they they moved there for a job and they're like, where the hell am I?
12:22
SPEAKER_01: Like, how did I end up in this place called Hopewell Junction?
12:25
SPEAKER_01: Like it just you know, in the middle of nowhere.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: So most people were particularly the moms, they were a bit traumatized.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: So the idea of leveraging farm fresh eggs was really appealing to them, to the extent that when I was packing these egg cartons on Thursdays, I would actually leave a little chicken poop on the eggs.
12:42
SPEAKER_00: I love that detail in the story.
12:44
SPEAKER_00: That is amazing.
12:45
SPEAKER_01: It occurred to me as I'm sitting, I used to because I used to clean off the eggs because I initially I was thinking it was gross, but then I realized that my main selling point is that they're farm fresh.
12:55
SPEAKER_01: So I would leave just a little bit of the chicken poop on the eggs so that it was these did not come from a grocery store, right?
13:02
SPEAKER_01: These there were some, you know, manufacturing of of uh of carding eggs.
13:06
SPEAKER_01: These were the real deal.
13:08
SPEAKER_01: So I left just a little bit of the chicken poop on there for authenticity.
13:12
SPEAKER_01: And I tell you, you know, where did I go in my life, right?
13:15
SPEAKER_01: I wound up being a photographer, portrait photographer for the most affluent families in the country.
13:20
SPEAKER_01: And I'd swear, Kent, my entire principle was based on the fact that I understood that, especially if you're gonna, if you need to charge more than your average person in whatever industry you're in, you have to figure out what is the real emotional trigger that's gonna drive people to put price aside.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And it's rarely service, it's something else, right?
13:39
SPEAKER_01: In this case, it was farm fresh.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: As a photographer, you know, what drove my clients to hire me, it wasn't that I was the most talented or best photographer in the world, because that's subjective.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I was the best one for them because I was always two steps ahead of them, and that's what they want most in life.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: They want people around them that are a few steps ahead of them.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: They don't have to, they never had to worry about making sure their Christmas cards went out on time or that their kids were all photographed at the same age.
14:03
SPEAKER_01: Never had to worry.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: Right.
14:05
SPEAKER_01: So it's anytime you're in a position where you are charging more than average for your services, it's really up to you to figure out what is the real emotional driver.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: So that one experience at 14 years old selling eggs taught me all the foundations I needed.
14:23
SPEAKER_01: And I'll tell you the other thing it also taught me, which I share in the book, is that I was a at 14 years old, up until my mid-20s, I was a painfully shy kid.
14:35
SPEAKER_01: I wanted to vomit with every door I knocked on.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: It was what I was doing was scaring the living daylights out of me.
14:45
SPEAKER_01: And I wanted to do it anyway.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what it feels like to be a true entrepreneur.
14:51
SPEAKER_01: That's what it feels like to be, you know, a writer.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: I I one of my favorite conversations with one of my favorite authors, Todd Henry.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: I love Todd Henry's stuff.
15:00
SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, love him.
15:02
SPEAKER_01: Love him as an individual too.
15:03
SPEAKER_01: And in the first time I interviewed him on my podcast, he mentioned something so profound for writers is that because I think most of us feel that way, like he chose being an author on writing because he definitely identifies as an introvert.
15:16
SPEAKER_01: Well, then wouldn't you know it?
15:18
SPEAKER_01: What happens is your book is a bestseller and now you're put out in the spotlight.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
15:22
SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what happened to me as a photographer.
15:24
SPEAKER_01: I chose photography because I could be a recluse, I could be in the dark room, I could hide behind a camera.
15:31
SPEAKER_01: But unfortunately or fortunately, I was so good at it, I got a lot of attention.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: Next thing I know, I'm thrown in the spotlight.
15:37
SPEAKER_01: And next thing I know, I'm serving the richest people in the country.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: But just like selling those eggs, every step of the way, it scared the daylights out of me.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: But what I learned is that success is a personal development journey.
15:49
SPEAKER_01: Right.
15:50
SPEAKER_01: It's it's is we develop ourselves to attract more success.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: And our success is constantly pushing us to grow further.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: And that to me, if you're comfortable in that dynamic, that's this that's the answer to success.
16:04
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
16:05
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
16:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, your your response to that question, it's it's spurred about 15 other directions in my mind.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: Something I'm really curious about, and actually um I've never asked anybody this, but I'm super fascinated by this topic.
16:19
SPEAKER_00: So you mentioned serving affluent families as a photographer.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that uh a lot of people listening to this uh want to do is is serve people basically with their writing services who have the money to pay them.
16:32
SPEAKER_00: You know, and a lot of times writers are shooting pretty low in terms of what they're charging, what their expectations are, and so forth.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: What is the mindset?
16:41
SPEAKER_00: And I hope I'm framing this question correctly.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: What is the mindset of an affluent person that you're serving with some kind of um, you know, whether it's photography or ghostwriting or whatever it is, what is their mindset as opposed to people who who maybe would struggle to pay for high-end services?
16:58
SPEAKER_00: I don't even know if I'm making sense as I asked that question.
17:01
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, you 100%.
17:02
SPEAKER_00: I guess is there's there's a different mindset that when you're offering services to more affluent people, that you have to kind of key on on how they think differently.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: Yes, and it almost doesn't matter whether they are affluent or not, right?
17:17
SPEAKER_01: So if you're I think the bigger question is how do you get people to spend money, whether it's comfortable for them or not, right?
17:25
SPEAKER_01: Um I I look at it as a gap.
17:30
SPEAKER_01: And being this is the marketer in me, I'm always looking for the gap, right?
17:34
SPEAKER_01: So one of the things I do on a daily basis um is I review people's websites.
17:39
SPEAKER_01: It's an offer that's out there on the world, it's on my website.
17:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh, one can submit an application uh and I will review their brand message or their website.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: And what I'm looking for is the gap between what they wrote on the application, which tends to be heartfelt, which tends to be the way they think and feel.
17:55
SPEAKER_01: And then I go to the website, I'm like, well, how come the message on the website looks nothing like what you intend?
18:00
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always looking for the gap.
18:02
SPEAKER_01: So I would say what a writer needs to do is to consider what is the emotional gap that's keeping people from being okay with investing at that higher level.
18:14
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: My guess is impact, right?
18:17
SPEAKER_01: So the the gap is, and again, anytime, anytime we get a no in business, it's because we haven't demonstrated the how much greater the value is than the investment.
18:32
SPEAKER_01: The investment amount is almost irrelevant because we are emotional buyers.
18:36
SPEAKER_01: We will always come up with the money if it's something we want.
18:41
SPEAKER_01: Right?
18:41
SPEAKER_00: That is so true.
18:43
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're completely driven by emotion.
18:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, to the point that I actually I'm so good at pointing out the gap that I actually had to take responsibility for making sure I wasn't causing people to overextend themselves.
18:56
SPEAKER_01: So I I often have to say, no, I can't work with you because I don't think it'll leave you in a good position, because I'm so good at pointing out that emotional gap.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Um, I would say for many writers, the gap they want to point out would be something along the lines, because this would be, oh, just imagine this as an author, like uh, it just gets me right in the gut.
19:16
SPEAKER_01: The message would be something like you have something you want the world to know, or there's there's a way you want to change the world, and you're not able to get it across.
19:28
SPEAKER_01: Like that to me is the most frustrating position to be in.
19:32
SPEAKER_01: I see it in entrepreneurs every day.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: They have a great thing, great service, great product, and they're so frustrated that the world doesn't know about them.
19:40
SPEAKER_01: The same is true for whom someone might be a ghostwriter for.
19:45
SPEAKER_01: Imagine the author that in their heart has has come to a point in their life that they know they they know something, they want to to to leverage to to change the world, change people's lives, but they don't have the skill set to get it out.
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like being a mute.
20:00
SPEAKER_01: Like how frustrating and a ghostwriter can close that gap.
20:04
SPEAKER_01: So their their message would be something along the lines of you know you have something important to say, and you're frustrated you can't get the world to hear it.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: I can help you.
20:13
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
20:14
SPEAKER_00: And that that goes right along with a conversation I had with a with a client actually last week.
20:19
SPEAKER_00: They were talking about the last book that they released a year or two ago, and they were and they basically wrote it, they had a little bit of help from their spouse, and they were saying how painful that process was and how it was just such a matter of angst to getting it out there.
20:33
SPEAKER_00: And that's really what a ghostwriter or other people who offer writing services do is they help you get that message out there in a way that doesn't cause like a mental breakdown.
20:42
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and uh and what you just mentioned, Kent, is also really important because it could also be fear, right?
20:47
SPEAKER_01: So another another ghostwriter uh might see in their ideal client that it's fear is the biggest obstacle, right?
20:57
SPEAKER_01: There, they they maybe it may be, let's say their genre is self-help.
21:03
SPEAKER_01: So a lot of the people that have great content around self-help are really tender souls.
21:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they have the best content, but the most amount of fear of of ridicule, the most amount of imposter syndrome, the most amount of I'm not gonna be good enough.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Right.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: So a ghost writer who can, if that's your genre, if your genre is writing books for self-help uh thought leaders, then I would say something about being able to get them past that fear and assure them that they're putting out in a book in the world that they'll be proud of.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important for a writer to consider what is the genre for which you you specialize in writing for, in your case, it's business, and then imagining what is the gap between where your authors or thought leaders are standing and what's the gap, emotional gap that will get them to investing.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: I think one of the most interesting insights that you mentioned in your new book is you talk about how prices are relevant and you mentioned that just a few minutes ago.
22:06
SPEAKER_00: That is a completely new concept to many of us who who are are selling things or we have products or services or whatever, because we often think that price is really the reason why people don't buy.
22:17
SPEAKER_00: But you're saying that price is largely irrelevant.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: It's really the sense of value that we're bringing.
22:22
SPEAKER_00: And if people say no, it's not because the price, it's because of some other factor.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: Is that basically correct?
22:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it is.
22:28
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's fine.
22:29
SPEAKER_01: I love hearing you say this because to me, I don't, for whatever reason, now I will reiterate, I grew up lower middle class, like middle class, maybe at best, right?
22:38
SPEAKER_01: In the middle of nowhere, right?
22:40
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I don't know why I'm so comfortable with this.
22:44
SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know why I have always I've always excelled in the high end.
22:49
SPEAKER_01: Um, because to me, price is so irrelevant.
22:52
SPEAKER_01: I mean, uh, it's almost hard for me to hear the question from you because I'm like, how is that not obvious to everybody else?
22:58
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's so the these affluent families, but uh, even no matter, even though they have the discretionary income, I'll share with you how I would answer their that typical question.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And often by the time people would contact me to consider hiring me as their photographer, uh, often by the time they made that contact, they were already unsure about what they were getting themselves into because my reputation preceded me because I was, you know, I was known to be high-end.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: So they sheepishly would ask, you know, what's this gonna cost?
23:30
SPEAKER_01: And and here's my answer.
23:31
SPEAKER_01: I would say, Well, how many homes do you have?
23:34
unknown: Right?
23:35
SPEAKER_01: What's it just flips it right back on them because, and then they would say, Well, three homes, four homes.
23:41
SPEAKER_01: And I'd say, Well, my clients invest about$5,000 a home, right?
23:45
SPEAKER_01: It's so vague.
23:46
SPEAKER_01: I've just made price completely irrelevant and I've made it their fault.
23:51
SPEAKER_01: It's that it's like having three kids.
23:53
SPEAKER_01: You can't complain about paying for college tuition for three kids if you chose to have three kids.
23:57
SPEAKER_01: You can't just say, I'm gonna pay for the first one, but not the other two.
23:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, you can't.
24:01
SPEAKER_01: So that's how irrelevant price is.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: It's like you just have to get uh yet again, another gap, like the value gap.
24:08
SPEAKER_01: Like, what is the emotional trigger?
24:11
SPEAKER_01: What's the conversation?
24:12
SPEAKER_01: What's the messaging that you need to say to get people over that gap between I don't want to spend this much money, but oh my gosh, the value for that thing is so far greater that how could I not?
24:24
SPEAKER_00: How would you frame that as?
24:26
SPEAKER_00: So my thing is ghostwriting, and I have this conversation all the time with people.
24:30
SPEAKER_00: You know, we'll we'll maybe have a Zoom call and we'll have this great conversation.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: Then ultimately the question comes, okay, what does this typically cost to have a book written?
24:38
SPEAKER_00: And I'm always a little unsure.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: I mean, uh I'm getting more comfortable with sales, but I come from the the church ministry and the education worlds to industries that are about as far away from business and sales thinking as you can possibly get.
24:52
SPEAKER_00: So this has been a journey for me.
24:54
SPEAKER_00: So when someone asks me as a ghostwriter, how much does this cost?
24:58
SPEAKER_00: How can I use that same principle that you used from the world of photography?
25:01
SPEAKER_00: How many homes do you have?
25:03
SPEAKER_00: What would be the equivalent type of response for something like ghostwriting?
25:08
SPEAKER_01: So, first I'd had to back way up, and this goes right to the core of my previous book, Lingo, which is about brand message, right?
25:15
SPEAKER_01: So the whole reason why brand message and what you say is so important is so that you don't get on the phone with the wrong people.
25:22
SPEAKER_00: That's great.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: Right.
25:23
SPEAKER_00: And I'll bet I made that mistake a lot.
25:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because that so do a lot of businesses.
25:27
SPEAKER_01: We waste a tremendous amount of time jumping through hoops with the wrong people.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: Um, what I suspect could be wrong, but if I took a guess, that your ideal client are not people that are putting out books as a legacy just for themselves or their family.
25:43
SPEAKER_00: Typically correct, yes.
25:44
SPEAKER_01: Right.
25:45
SPEAKER_01: So your ideal, because that would be someone who's probably not going to invest a lot of money, yeah, because they're really writing it for themselves.
25:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, versus an author such as myself, which would probably be more likely to be your ideal client, would be I'm not even considering whether I'm gonna make the money back on the book sales.
26:09
SPEAKER_01: That would be a nice to have.
26:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: It's leading to other stuff, it's leading to other stuff.
26:13
SPEAKER_01: It's also just setting me up for the platform and recognition in the world.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
26:17
SPEAKER_01: So it's the impact emotional component.
26:19
SPEAKER_01: So you'd have to kind of put it back and say, well, what's what's the value of the impact you want to create in the world?
26:26
SPEAKER_01: Right?
26:27
SPEAKER_01: What's the what's the um I love that?
26:29
SPEAKER_01: Right.
26:30
SPEAKER_01: Or, you know, you can also flip it on the heels and say, what will be how disappointed you will will you be if you don't make the impact in the world that you want to?
26:38
SPEAKER_00: That gets to the core of it right there.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: Right in three years, what will a book maybe have done for you in three years that you wouldn't get otherwise if you didn't have a book?
26:46
SPEAKER_00: Because all of your competitors out there have at least one book.
26:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
26:50
SPEAKER_01: And I would add to that, so in in the self-employed life book, one of the things that was really important to me, and I had to fight for a little bit with the editor to get it included in there, is there's an entire uh section on self um midlife self-employed business owners.
27:04
SPEAKER_03: Wow.
27:05
SPEAKER_01: And the reason that was important to me is because A, I'm midlife, but I also think it's a huge shift in the world.
27:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're seeing, I mean, statistically speaking, if you look at your your businesses, your startup businesses that had the greatest success, the average age is over 45.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:23
SPEAKER_01: We we are culturally led to believe that it's the 20-year-olds hustling that are that are the most successful.
27:28
SPEAKER_01: It's actually not true.
27:29
SPEAKER_01: Statistically speaking, the average age of success of a startup business is 45 and over.
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Right?
27:35
SPEAKER_01: Why?
27:36
SPEAKER_01: Because they bring a certain degree of maturity.
27:38
SPEAKER_01: They're probably like in my coaching, uh, I coach a lot of people that are leaving corporate life to become self-employed.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: So I think another component to answer your question is what is the age demographic of your ideal client?
27:51
SPEAKER_01: If they are, I would guess probably uh they're probably 40 and above.
27:57
SPEAKER_00: Yep, 40 to 55 or 60 typically.
28:00
SPEAKER_01: And what's important in that, what's the other emotional driver at that age, is that, and it's uh because I'm that age, I get it.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: There's this weird duality.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: It's like, I know I'm gonna live to 100.
28:10
SPEAKER_01: I've convinced myself of that, but at the same time, I don't feel like I have forever to figure this out.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Right?
28:16
SPEAKER_01: There's an urgency to it.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: Right.
28:18
SPEAKER_01: There's this there's an urgency to it.
28:19
SPEAKER_01: In my 20s and 30s, I felt like I had forever, right?
28:21
SPEAKER_01: We're invincible.
28:22
SPEAKER_01: You get to a certain age, particularly in your 50s.
28:25
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, am I I still feel like I'm 28.
28:28
SPEAKER_01: I still feel like I've convinced myself I'm gonna live to 100.
28:32
SPEAKER_01: But I also am not so stupid that I don't realize that, you know, I need to get this going.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: So I'm always willing to invest beyond what's comfortable for people who can get me to where I want to go quicker.
28:44
SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly who I coach as well.
28:46
SPEAKER_01: Like that's why for my one-to-one coaching, it's primarily people who are transitioning from one thing in life, usually corporate to self-employment, or um, there that's the demographic, the age demographic is there's an underlying emotional driver to say, sure, I could spend the next three years writing this book, or I can invest beyond what I'm comfortable and I can get this done and out in a year.
29:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that there's a point in life where that means more to me than the cost of the money.
29:14
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
29:15
SPEAKER_00: And plus, people at that at that age bracket typically can't afford those more than a 25-year-old.
29:21
SPEAKER_00: Correct.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: You know, that's probably an obvious factor.
29:24
SPEAKER_00: You know, the the 25-year-old working at Starbucks, no offense to 25-year-olds working at Starbucks.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: Uh and thank you for the awesome coffee, by the way.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: For all those at Starbucks, yeah.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: They're they're probably not gonna be interested in a ghostwritten book or are building a business and that type of thing.
29:39
SPEAKER_00: So, man, this is so helpful.
29:40
SPEAKER_00: I feel like this is sort of like a coaching session and everybody else just gets to listen into it.
29:44
SPEAKER_00: But but I know this is gonna help a lot of people who are listening.
29:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
29:47
SPEAKER_01: Well, the nice thing is that I love uh hosts like yourself that you are also your audience, as I am too.
29:52
SPEAKER_01: Like my my podcast, The Self-employed Life, I am my audience.
29:55
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, um, when I, you know, when I'm interviewing my guests, I just I'm thinking, I'm asking the questions that I think they want to hear, but they don't have the good fortune to be at the mic that I do.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
30:04
SPEAKER_01: So that you're doing a great service to your to your listeners because you're asking, I think, the very same things that are on their mind.
30:10
SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, Pat Flynn refers to himself as the crash test dummy for I think online business.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: So I look at myself as the crash test dummy or the guinea pig for writing stuff and building a ghostwriting business and all this kind of stuff.
30:23
SPEAKER_00: So I just figure, hey, we put ourselves out there, what have we got to lose?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: So one quote that you referenced a little while ago, and I remember this is in your book as well.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: It's by uh quote from Jim Rohn, which of course everybody loves.
30:36
SPEAKER_00: I just absolutely love his stuff.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: And I love his accent, by the way, like his lilt, his way of speaking is just so uh compelling for some reason.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: I can't even put my finger on it, but anyway, it's a quote where he says, Your level of success rarely exceeds your level of personal development.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: And that hit me like a ton of bricks in the face.
30:57
SPEAKER_00: I'm mixing my metaphors here a little bit, but you get my point.
31:00
SPEAKER_00: I I just love that quote.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Why is it that so many times we short circuit our success because we're not developing ourselves?
31:08
SPEAKER_00: We we think of, like you mentioned a minute ago, hustling and putting in all the hours and doing all the podcasts and guest podcasting and blogging and all this kind of stuff, but sometimes we don't work on ourselves very much.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: What is what's going on with that and how do we fix that?
31:24
SPEAKER_01: Oh man, I I live by that quote.
31:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, it is it was my experience first, right?
31:31
SPEAKER_01: It was my personal experience that whenever I whenever I like I said earlier on, like there's this there's a dynamic, and there's a way in which so to me, there's a way in which success propels us forward.
31:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, as I mentioned about Todd Henry, as I mentioned to myself, like I succeeded as a photographer to a level that guess what?
31:52
SPEAKER_01: You're now the speaker at graduation of your photography school.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: Like, no, I'm the kid that picked photography because I didn't want to be seen by anybody.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Now you're throwing me up on stage, right?
32:00
SPEAKER_01: So there's a way in which success propels you.
32:04
SPEAKER_01: And if you choose to, and hopefully you do, you rise to meet the occasion.
32:10
SPEAKER_01: So there's a you there's an inevitable personal growth that has to take place to meet the success that came to your door.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: But on the other hand, as many of us are at our business and we want to go to the proverbial next level.
32:24
SPEAKER_01: It has been my experience that it's inward work first to increase the capacity for what the success we are that's available to us.
32:35
SPEAKER_01: We have to kind of raise our own ceiling.
32:37
SPEAKER_01: That's what I love about Jim Rohn's quote.
32:38
SPEAKER_01: I look at it as a the proverbial glass season ceiling.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: Like we have to raise the glass ceiling, which I love the word capacity, because what that does is it increases the capacity for more success.
32:52
SPEAKER_01: The problem in business and in life, I would say, which is the primary problem I'm trying to solve in in my book, is that so often people just keep applying strategy.
33:03
SPEAKER_01: We live in a culture where, and I think this is particularly true of self-employed business owners, which is why I want to take care of them by writing this book.
33:12
SPEAKER_01: Ken, here's the irony, right?
33:13
SPEAKER_01: We are often told that we run the right, we're all over the place, that we lack focus.
33:19
SPEAKER_01: And we live in a world that makes us run all over the place to get everything in one place, right?
33:24
SPEAKER_01: We have to turn to coaches for mindset work, we go to conferences for trainings, we buy webinars, et cetera.
33:33
SPEAKER_01: We have to run all over the place to get everything in one place.
33:35
SPEAKER_01: But what happens is most of us put most of our attention on what we think is going to move us forward first, which is strategy.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: So we keep put adding strategy, adding strategy, adding strategy.
33:46
SPEAKER_01: And then we say, Well, I feel like a hamster running on a wheel.
33:49
SPEAKER_01: It's because you haven't broken the cycle.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: You have to increase the capacity to handle the success or to welcome the success.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: It's both welcoming and handling.
33:58
SPEAKER_01: So that quote, I just don't think there are truer words spoken, honestly, that your level of success will rarely exceed your level of personal development.
34:09
SPEAKER_01: That you have you have to grow to increase the capacity, and you have to let the success that you find increase.
34:16
SPEAKER_01: And that includes that also includes, I'll add to it, the the the base of my TEDx talk is the idea that often people see more in us than we see in ourselves.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: And that's a part of increasing your capacity.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: We are inherently held back by our own limited thinking on our own pre-established expectations of ourselves.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: How are we ever to become more than we expect of ourselves if expectation by definition is a predetermined outcome?
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Man, there's a lot to chew on with that.
34:49
SPEAKER_01: Right?
34:49
SPEAKER_01: How do you break that?
34:50
SPEAKER_01: The only to me, that's why I did my TEDx talk on this topic.
34:53
SPEAKER_01: The only way you can break that is other people are likely seeing more than you and you see in yourselves, and then you just have to believe them.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And that's another way of raising that ceiling, raising the capacity.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: It's like, all right, you think you, you know, you think I'm gonna be all that and a bag of chips.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: I don't see it, but hey, I'll believe you.
35:08
SPEAKER_01: Lean into it, and next thing you know, you've you've increased your capacity of belief in yourself, and that leads to greater capacity and success.
35:16
SPEAKER_00: One of the things that we talk about a lot in uh on this podcast, which of course is is for writers and also within our daily writer community, that's our membership community.
35:25
SPEAKER_00: We really focus a lot on habits, mindset, rituals, and so forth.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: What are some of those maybe two or three or four essential components of increasing our capacity that you have in your life or that you would suggest to writers?
35:39
SPEAKER_01: So one is an and um again, this is so the the self-employed life, the book is is what I present in that book is what I call a self-employed ecosystem.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And I chose to call it an ecosystem because, like an ecosystem in nature, if one element is off, it can destroy the whole ecosystem.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
35:57
SPEAKER_01: So the ecosystem of self-employment is personal development, business strategies, and daily habits.
36:03
SPEAKER_01: I actually, when I start, I have a consulting program that goes along with this principle in helping people pull their whole business together.
36:10
SPEAKER_01: And I I ask them to identify which symptom feels more like them, to identify what part of the ecosystem is most off.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: And um the if you look at it as uh as an ecosystem, you're now taking a kind of a holistic approach to it.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: The um the part that most people are weak on, honestly, are the daily habits.
36:36
SPEAKER_00: I can guess that.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: Right.
36:38
SPEAKER_01: And it's what the when that's off, it breaks your sustainability.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: And that's when businesses have spits and spurts, right?
36:45
SPEAKER_01: Or spurts and stops, I guess is the term, right?
36:48
SPEAKER_01: They go forward, they go backwards.
36:50
SPEAKER_01: Um the absolutely the number one daily habit that I introduce, uh, and it was so good.
36:59
SPEAKER_01: It was in my first book, and it's so good.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: I'm bringing it into the second book as well, is what I call a what's going right journal.
37:04
SPEAKER_01: I love that.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: It plays exactly in this sweet spot of what I like.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: Because what I like and what I like to encourage in other people is that sweet spot between personal development, but there's a tangible outcome.
37:17
SPEAKER_01: None of us have time for nice to have, you know, and there's a lot of personal development and self-help that, hey, that's great.
37:26
SPEAKER_01: I can sit down with you and make a long list of things I'm grateful for, but what's it going to do for me?
37:31
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: I always want to know what's it going to do, what's the tangible result?
37:34
SPEAKER_01: And I struggled with gratitude journals, to be honest with you, because if I wake up in the morning, the sun is shining and I'm breathing and my dog is still with me, I'm pretty grateful.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: Like it was so broad for me, I didn't know what to do with that.
37:45
SPEAKER_01: What I found is that the what's going right journal played with the science of the mind.
37:50
SPEAKER_01: So the the I the practice is every morning to journal what is going right for you, right?
37:58
SPEAKER_01: Both broadly and specifically, you know, you can feel like, hey, I feel like I'm I'm going through a breakthrough.
38:04
SPEAKER_01: Or what's going right is that for me is I seem to be getting introduced to some really amazing people that I think can help me in the future.
38:10
SPEAKER_01: Or what's going right is that, you know, I'm not sure why, but I'm just working at a better flow.
38:15
SPEAKER_01: Like things are coming easier to me.
38:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, so many, I've I accomplished so much in 2020.
38:21
SPEAKER_01: People were looking at me saying, You're like a machine.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, yeah, and it's probably one of the easiest working years I've ever had.
38:26
SPEAKER_01: Like it just flowed, right?
38:28
SPEAKER_01: And the idea of the what's going right journal is what do we know about both science and and metaphysics, if you will, is that what we focus on, you get more of.
38:37
SPEAKER_01: If you focus on what's going right, you will see more of what's going right.
38:41
SPEAKER_01: And more of what's going right keeps coming in.
38:44
SPEAKER_01: And it it isn't just a nice to have, it creates a tangible result of recognizing and inviting more of what's going right.
38:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, this to me has been a game changer.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: It is my number one primary daily practice uh that I do for myself and help others with because it has a very tangible result.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: Like I can literally, what I also love about a Kent is that it's the hardest to do when you're in the worst place.
39:07
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: It is when, you know, there are times in our life.
39:10
SPEAKER_01: I mean, think about the irony, is like there are times in our lives where we feel like our whole world is falling apart and this dude is telling you to find what's going right, right?
39:17
SPEAKER_01: That's hard.
39:18
SPEAKER_01: But if you do it, you can reverse what's going on.
39:21
SPEAKER_01: If you really see no matter how much things might be falling apart and how much you're challenged, if you focus on what's going right, what's no matter how little it is, you'll start reversing that engine and you'll start seeing more of what's going right.
39:35
SPEAKER_00: Is this a uh I feel like this is kind of a dumb question, but is that a an actual journal that's available?
39:40
SPEAKER_00: It's like something called the what's going right journal?
39:42
SPEAKER_00: Or is this just a practice that you have and you use any old journal or or something else?
39:46
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question because it recently somebody said, Well, why don't you like create this and put it out there as a practice?
39:52
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Yeah, that would be a good product, but I got other things to do.
39:55
SPEAKER_00: I was gonna suggest the exact same thing.
39:57
SPEAKER_00: I know.
39:58
SPEAKER_00: Literally, if you had this, I would buy it right now because I would put it.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: I would love something that's kind of guided.
40:02
SPEAKER_01: But just a blank journal to start with.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: But I I'm glad you're bringing up the point.
40:06
SPEAKER_01: Maybe I need to do something with it to help you because to me it was just like the idea came to me, and then just do it, right?
40:11
SPEAKER_01: So I just I have granted, I have a beautiful leather-bound journal.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: It was given to me as a gift, uh, embossed leather, but it's just blank pages.
40:18
SPEAKER_01: There's nothing guiding it except what I do is every morning, it's a practice.
40:22
SPEAKER_01: I sit down and I literally start every sentence with what's going right is, and I fill it in.
40:27
SPEAKER_01: What's going right?
40:28
SPEAKER_01: I just keep repeating what's going right is.
40:29
SPEAKER_01: So it's not just what's going right and then a random paragraph of things.
40:33
SPEAKER_01: I literally write what's going right is, you know, I'm people are introducing me to great people.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: What's going right is um, I landed a new client, right?
40:46
SPEAKER_01: Just I literally start every sentence off with what's going right.
40:48
SPEAKER_01: I spend maybe five to seven minutes doing this um at the end of you know the rest of my morning ritual, which involves a few other things.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: But um, this to me is the most specific and tangible thing that I that I can offer.
41:05
SPEAKER_00: Well, all I can say is that if you ever release this product, I will buy a bunch of them and I will give them out to friends because now that you have created this uh desire in me to buy this, I'm I'm imagining in my in my head a five by seven leather bound little thing that I can use every day.
41:21
SPEAKER_00: At the top it says what's going right is and it has some bullet points.
41:25
SPEAKER_00: My mind always goes to tangible physical book products.
41:28
SPEAKER_00: I don't know why.
41:28
SPEAKER_01: Well, until I do, I don't want to don't please don't anybody wait for me.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Just go ahead and do it.
41:34
SPEAKER_01: Blank pages, yeah.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: Blank pages will work just great to start off with, but just do it because it is really it, it the results are fabulous.
41:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, speaking of books, I do want to ask you before we uh kind of start to wind this conversation down, what are two or three books that have had the most impact on you, maybe in your life, or also if we want to get more specific, as a self-employed entrepreneur and business owner?
41:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:58
SPEAKER_01: And to me, the nuance is self-employed, because um, you know, I read about a hundred books a year because I read uh a lot of books for the my podcast, and I and I read every book cover to cover.
42:10
SPEAKER_01: Um I when I look back, so those tend to be business books, because that's the the the focus of the podcast.
42:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, and yet on the podcast, we certainly do a lot of personal development as well, because it's all part of the ecosystem that I that I talk about.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: Um, so to me, my favorite books are both a blend of business strategy and those that challenge me to grow.
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Um, and sometimes in a in a what appears to be a typical, and I think this is true of my books, to be honest with you.
42:38
SPEAKER_01: I think in what appears to be a traditional business book is actually gonna probably stretch you more personally than than you even expect.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: But because, as I said earlier, that how we get hooked on the hamster wheel, we can also use that to our advantage in a way.
42:56
SPEAKER_01: So I know people are gonna pick up my books because what they what they think they need is more strategy.
43:01
SPEAKER_01: So I tell them that's why they're gonna pick up this book.
43:03
SPEAKER_01: But when they get the book, they realize okay, what it's really doing for me is me, I'm making me grow first in order for the business strategy to work.
43:10
SPEAKER_01: So I'm kind of getting them in there in the back door.
43:11
SPEAKER_01: It's very intentional.
43:13
SPEAKER_01: So my favorite books, I to probably a life-changing moment.
43:16
SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna answer this one in two different ways because I have to give credence to Daniel Pink for his book to sell as human.
43:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
43:23
SPEAKER_01: Because that was a life-changing moment for me reading that book, reading that book and thinking, oh my gosh, somebody thinks about sales the way I do.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: And and I don't remember the publication date, but it's been a number of years.
43:34
SPEAKER_01: And I just remember that being a life-changing moment to realize that selling is human.
43:39
SPEAKER_01: I don't, and this is important, I think, for self employed business owners because we don't want to be creepy, but we've brought, we've come up into a world where sales has been defined as being creepy.
43:49
SPEAKER_01: So when I was given permission to actually sell from a human perspective and from a perspective of selling means knowing the people you're selling to deeply, that changed my life.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: I will.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Counter that by saying a more current book that had a very similar feeling is uh sell the way you buy by David Premier.
44:09
SPEAKER_01: It's very, I won't say it's at all similar.
44:12
SPEAKER_01: It's not at all at all similar to sell as human, but it is another book that emotionally moved me first.
44:19
SPEAKER_01: Like it's so obvious.
44:20
SPEAKER_01: Of course, we should sell to others the way we like to experience buying.
44:25
SPEAKER_01: Why do we want to be treated a certain way as buyers, but then we're creepy as sellers?
44:29
SPEAKER_01: Like it makes no sense.
44:31
SPEAKER_01: And this book closes that gap.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: Like just sell the way you buy.
44:34
SPEAKER_01: If you can, the more you can understand how you're emotionally triggered buying, then why not sell yourself the same way?
44:41
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
44:41
SPEAKER_01: So it's similar but different, and and I would recommend that.
44:45
SPEAKER_01: Um, the other a classic book I'll offer is uh The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks.
44:52
SPEAKER_00: I love that one.
44:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's more of a mindset book for me, but huge impact, right?
44:56
SPEAKER_01: Just how can I, as Jermo asks us to do, how can I grow myself personally first?
45:03
SPEAKER_01: And then I'll ask, I'll add one more, um, which would be probably fascinate by Sally Hogshead.
45:11
SPEAKER_01: Good one too.
45:12
SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I mean, I was going to say how the world sees you, because that's the concept of it.
45:17
SPEAKER_01: But the challenge is how the world sees you is so big and in much more in depth.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: But I think most business owners will get more out of fascinate, which is the same.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: But here's, and if you know the book, you know why that concept works.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: And I look as a business person myself, I look for every opportunity to take responsibility for my own life.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: I don't blame the economy, I don't blame pandemics, I don't blame people not having money.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: Even if that's all the reality, what good does it do you for that to be the problem?
45:52
SPEAKER_01: Yes, right?
45:53
SPEAKER_01: It comes down to personal accountability and responsibility.
45:56
SPEAKER_01: What are you gonna do about that problem?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: And what I love about Fascinate is the core concept of what it's about is how the world sees you.
46:04
SPEAKER_01: What about you and your brand is fascinating enough to get someone to choose you as a business.
46:12
SPEAKER_01: And I love the the instead of the study of uh you know of ourselves in our Enneagram or our strength finders, I mean, which is all important, but instead of the study of that, what's more important to me is to study how other people see me, because if I understand that, that actually gives me leverage.
46:34
SPEAKER_01: And that's the core concept of my book, Lingo, by the way, too, which is is if I can understand my clients' lingo, they're a secret language.
46:43
SPEAKER_01: In my case, it was if I could understand a lingo of affluent people, even though I didn't come from that, I can leverage that to my advantage to build a successful business.
46:52
SPEAKER_01: Um, so those would probably be my top three or four.
46:56
SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how many I told you, but they're they're all books that as you can see in a pattern, what I believe makes us more successful, but all books that changed me personally so that I could change my business.
47:07
SPEAKER_01: And that's what my book, The Self-employed Life, is all about as well.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Wow, you've given us a lot to to uh chew on, Jeffrey.
47:14
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
47:15
SPEAKER_00: This has been a phenomenal episode.
47:17
SPEAKER_00: I've taken a bunch of notes and I cannot wait to go back through these and and uh start to apply these to myself.
47:23
SPEAKER_00: One thing that I want to do before we wrap this up is uh have you share with our listeners how they can get in touch with you, find out more about the book.
47:31
SPEAKER_00: And you also have a summit that they're I think going to be very interested in.
47:35
SPEAKER_00: So if you can share any and everything about any of that stuff, that would be fantastic.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: Happy to.
47:40
SPEAKER_01: So um I'll mention the summit.
47:42
SPEAKER_01: So what because I've put this together because again, a gap was there a gap when I started when I wrote my book, The Self-employed Life, and started doing all the due diligence on who else wrote books on this topic and you know, who else owns this space as an authority in the world?
47:56
SPEAKER_01: And I found out no one.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you go to Amazon and you search books for self-employed business owners, it's like you know, taxes when you're self-employed.
48:05
SPEAKER_01: How to make six, oh my gosh, there's nothing.
48:07
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, well, here's a gap.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Like the world is not helping self-employed, they're talking about entrepreneurship, they're talking about small business, but being self-employed is a different experience because our lives are on the line.
48:18
SPEAKER_01: We're it's all personal.
48:20
SPEAKER_01: Whoever came up with the idea that it's business, it's not personal, it doesn't apply to us, it's all personal.
48:25
SPEAKER_01: It's not the godfather, right?
48:27
SPEAKER_01: So the other the other gap was that there's no education for us.
48:30
SPEAKER_01: Like I said, one of the one of the most challenging parts of being self-employed is that we're accused of running all over the place, but nobody's put everything in one place for us.
48:38
SPEAKER_01: The self-employed summit does just that.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: It's two days of online learning from 10 of the most awesome, awesome speakers.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: Um, and I in in in inviting these speakers, I broke them up into three categories: personal development, business strategy, and daily habits.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: So they will be speakers that will, when you take in the content of all 10 of them, you will have completed your own ecosystem.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Uh, the the summit is April 12th and 13th.
49:03
SPEAKER_01: Access to the summit is so easy.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: It's purchase of it's pre-order purchase of my book.
49:08
SPEAKER_01: So anybody that buys the book from uh mid-March when it goes becomes available for pre-order up until April 11th, when we have to close for the summit.
49:17
SPEAKER_01: Um, just proof of purchase with a receipt of the book gets you in.
49:22
SPEAKER_01: The book's$17.95.
49:24
SPEAKER_01: So it's got to be the cheapest access to two days of the most initial as possible.
49:28
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
49:29
SPEAKER_01: So it's it was again, oh, I'm always looking for the gaps.
49:32
SPEAKER_01: And then there was just such a huge gap in availability.
49:36
SPEAKER_01: Um it drives me crazy.
49:39
SPEAKER_01: I mean, even as a speaker, as my speaking rep is out trying to line up gigs for future years, there's not a single event in the world held for self-employed business owners.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Like it's small business, it's yeah, so a big gap that I want to fulfill.
49:53
SPEAKER_01: As far as what how I would like to be in touch with um your listeners, knowing that most of them are authors or ghostwriters, um, again, also individuals that have a message to get out.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: And you and I are both podcasters, we know how hard it is to become a guest on a podcast.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: Much more challenging than it used to be because everybody gets it now.
50:15
SPEAKER_01: Everybody gets that being a podcast guest is a great way to get your message out.
50:20
SPEAKER_01: As hosts, we know how bad it is.
50:24
SPEAKER_01: Like we know the volume, we know how bad the pitches are.
50:27
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've created a guide uh which one can download at awesome podcastguest.com.
50:35
SPEAKER_01: So it's awesomepodcastguest.com.
50:38
SPEAKER_01: I've put together a whole guide on the entire process on how to find podcasts, how to design your pitch, how to contact the podcast host, and when you're on the show, how to be an amazing guest.
50:52
SPEAKER_01: Like how do you deliver the content in an impressive way?
50:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that'll probably be best suited for um for your listeners.
50:59
SPEAKER_00: Yes, and I have uh been through your course on podcast guesting that you offered a few months ago.
51:04
SPEAKER_00: And I can truly say this is it's a game changer, it really is, because there's not that many people teaching about how to how to pitch yourself the correct way and how to be a great guest.
51:14
SPEAKER_00: You get pitches from people I know as a podcaster, I get pitches as well, and most of the time they're way off base.
51:20
SPEAKER_00: So I'm glad you're providing this service.
51:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
51:26
SPEAKER_01: It goes right back to you know, step number one is to understand what's going on in the world of podcast hosts.
51:30
SPEAKER_01: And one thing I always like to point out is very, very few podcast hosts make a living at their podcast, right?
51:37
SPEAKER_01: So you have to understand you're already communicating with somebody where podcasting is a small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
51:43
SPEAKER_01: Therefore, you have to communicate in a certain way.
51:45
SPEAKER_01: So I think that'll be really helpful.
51:47
SPEAKER_01: So I'm happy to give that out again.
51:48
SPEAKER_01: Awesome podcastguests.com.
51:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, Jeffrey, thank you again so much.
51:51
SPEAKER_00: You have given us so much great food for thought here.
51:54
SPEAKER_00: Lots and lots to chew on.
51:55
SPEAKER_00: Uh I appreciate you making time to be a guest today.
51:57
SPEAKER_00: So again, thank you so much.
52:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, that conversation was an absolute blast.
52:02
SPEAKER_00: I learned a ton, and I'd say my biggest takeaway is simply the value of taking more control over your life.
52:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a variety of people listening to this show right now.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: Some people who have jobs, some people who have a part-time job, some people who are building their business, some people who are not employed for one reason or another, maybe by choice or just because you've gotten let go from your job.
52:26
SPEAKER_00: Whatever your situation, I want to ask you, what do you want in life?
52:30
SPEAKER_00: And what can you do to move closer towards that goal?
52:33
SPEAKER_00: For example, if you have a full-time job, but you don't like that job and you want more time and money freedom, what can you start doing within the next 30 days that can bring you closer to that reality?
52:45
SPEAKER_00: So here's the deal.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: And if you've been listening to this podcast for a while, you know that I'm a pretty transparent person.
52:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm pretty open.
52:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't, I don't try to put on some show for anybody.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: I just kind of tell it like it is, and and that's just kind of how I think life should be.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: So I want to be really open and honest with you for just a moment.
53:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, for a long time, I would say for many years, my wife and I were in a really stressful financial situation.
53:09
SPEAKER_00: We were in a lot of debt, and it seemed like every conversation that we had revolved around the question, can we afford to do that?
53:16
SPEAKER_00: So I decided a couple of years ago that I'd had enough of that and that I needed to kind of get off my rear end and figure out how to start building a business.
53:26
SPEAKER_00: So I looked at my options and I decided that ghostwriting was how I wanted to build my side business.
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Now, I did an episode last year on this podcast.
53:34
SPEAKER_00: I think back when it was called Smart Business Writing, I did an episode on why I chose ghostwriting for my side business.
53:41
SPEAKER_00: So if you're interested in learning the reasons why I chose ghostwriting, go back and listen to that episode.
53:46
SPEAKER_00: I think it's gosh, 30 or 45 minutes long.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: I go into a great amount of detail as to how I made that decision because it was very systematic.
53:54
SPEAKER_00: It's not an accident or I didn't just kind of fall into ghostwriting.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: This was an extremely intentional strategy that I had for building my business.
54:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to rehash all that here, but if you're interested in why I chose this, I encourage you to go back and listen to that.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: I forget what the date is, but you can scroll through the episodes uh from 2020 and find that.
54:14
SPEAKER_00: But the basic idea here is that that was very intentional.
54:17
SPEAKER_00: And I made the decision to build a business.
54:20
SPEAKER_00: And now my side business income, doing this just part-time over the last year and a half or so, my side business income is actually greater than my day job full-time income.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: And I'm here to tell you without a shred of doubt that you can do this.
54:35
SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm telling you this right now because if I can do this, you can do this.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm just about the world's worst business person.
54:43
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it feels like.
54:44
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by that is that I'm not naturally wired to be a business mind.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: I don't mean that I'm the world's worst business person.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: I just mean my natural wiring is not to think about business strategy and, you know, business plans and all those kinds of things.
54:59
SPEAKER_00: I'm an artist, I'm a writer, I'm a creative at heart.
55:02
SPEAKER_00: So I come from the world of church ministry and education.
55:05
SPEAKER_00: Those are our two industries or two types of work, if you will, that are about as far away from business strategy as you can get sometimes.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: Uh, business strategy and business thinking has not been my experience.
55:17
SPEAKER_00: But I decided a couple of years ago that I've got to figure this out and I'm gonna, I'm gonna figure out a way to build this.
55:23
SPEAKER_00: So I'm telling you that you can do this also.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: I absolutely, without a doubt, 100% believe that you can.
55:31
SPEAKER_00: So that's why I had Jeffrey on the show today to give you some tips on how to do that.
55:35
SPEAKER_00: I really want to encourage you to get his book, The Self-employed Life, because I've not been able to read the full book yet because it hasn't been released.
55:42
SPEAKER_00: But he sent me an extensive summary and man, this is a great, great book.
55:46
SPEAKER_00: So, again, if you're if you want to do it, you can do it.
55:51
SPEAKER_00: If I can do it, you can do it.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: Also, if you're a writer and you have skills that you can use to add value to people's lives, you can absolutely do this because people want to pay for your skills.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: They truly do.
56:03
SPEAKER_00: People are paying for my skills, and in some cases, they're paying really, really well for my skills.
56:08
SPEAKER_00: So I promise, my friend, you can do this.
56:10
SPEAKER_00: And the cool thing is that when your writing makes money for you, it gives you more options in life.
56:15
SPEAKER_00: When you don't have to be stressed out every second about money, or if you're wondering how you're gonna pay next month's bills, that adds a huge amount of stress to your life.
56:22
SPEAKER_00: And I just promise you, if I can do it, you can do this as well.
56:26
SPEAKER_00: So I hope you're taking this episode to heart.
56:28
SPEAKER_00: Jeffrey Shaw is the perfect example of somebody who determined what they wanted in life and they built it.
56:34
SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what I have done the last couple of years.
56:36
SPEAKER_00: I just determined what kind of business I was gonna have, and I just slowly but surely I built it.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: And I can tell you for sure, by far the biggest factor in that was taking a course that my friend Nick Pavlitas offered called Ghostwriter School.
56:50
SPEAKER_00: You can check it out at ghostwriterschool.com.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: He has impacted my life in so many ways, I will eternally be grateful to Nick Pavlitus.
56:58
SPEAKER_00: And I've had him on the show a couple of times to talk about ghostwriting.
57:01
SPEAKER_00: So you can go back and listen to that as well.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: Now, again, I encourage you to pre-order Jeffrey's book called The Self-Employed Life, and there will be a link in the show notes for that.
57:09
SPEAKER_00: And I also encourage you to grab a free download that he that he has about being a great podcast guest.
57:15
SPEAKER_00: And this is all about the process of how to find a podcast, how to design your pitch, how to contact the podcast host and be a great guest.
57:22
SPEAKER_00: And you can grab that by going to awesomepodcastguest.com.
57:27
SPEAKER_00: And there's a link in the show notes for that as well.
57:29
SPEAKER_00: Finally, I want to encourage you to connect with Jeffrey at his website where you can find his social media links and all the cool stuff that he's doing.
57:37
SPEAKER_00: Now, before I go, I do want to let you know about a brand new product that we have available here at the Daily Writer, and that is our daily writing prompts.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: And if you've been listening to this podcast any length of time, you know that one of the four practices of a great writer that we talk about is creativity.
57:53
SPEAKER_00: And in order to stay creative, you've got to have great input.
57:57
SPEAKER_00: And that's where these writing prompts come in.
57:59
SPEAKER_00: A writing prompt is a sentence or two that helps you break through creative blocks, brainstorm new ideas, and get back into a state of flow.
58:07
SPEAKER_00: Writing prompts are a fantastic creative tool for journaling, for stress relief, for storytelling, and so much more.
58:15
SPEAKER_00: But here's the cool thing: the way that I have designed these writing prompts is that it's not just for your own private writing.
58:21
SPEAKER_00: You can also use these as a creative tool for speaking, for teaching.
58:26
SPEAKER_00: If you're a pastor, you can use them for preaching, for mastermind groups, social media posts, podcast, and coaching, and so much more.
58:34
SPEAKER_00: So the way this works is that every single day for the next year, you get an email with a writing prompt, weekends included.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: So we have a limited time price of five bucks a month, which is a really super amazing deal for a creative tool that will inspire you every single day for a whole year.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: So again, this is a very, very limited time.
58:51
SPEAKER_00: The price is gonna go up in this pretty soon.
58:53
SPEAKER_00: But you can grab that right now for just five bucks a month by going to dailywriteyourlife.com slash writing prompts.
59:00
SPEAKER_00: This has been such a fun, fun episode.
59:02
SPEAKER_00: And again, I encourage you to check out Jeffrey's book.
59:04
SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be awesome.
59:05
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening, and I will see you tomorrow.