Transcript

Sharri | 4 May · Sharri

0:01
Speaker 1: Live on Sky News.
0:04
Speaker 2: This is Sharry Good Evening Tonight, Tony Burke's department has
0:10
Speaker 2: issued a visa to an American YouTuber who's a renowned
0:14
Speaker 2: anti Semitite, anti Semite and is even banned from social media.
0:18
Speaker 2: Sneako is already in Australia Tony Burk's office tonight, refusing
0:23
Speaker 2: to answer our questions about why he was given a visa.
0:26
Speaker 2: I'll bring you this exclusive in a moment, and we'll
0:29
Speaker 2: get reaction from the former Boss of Home Affairs Mike
0:32
Speaker 2: Buzulo and Shadow Home Affairs Minister Jonathan Dunniam And this
0:37
Speaker 2: news on the day that we heard harrowing stories of
0:40
Speaker 2: anti Semitism at schools, on public transport and in institutions,
0:46
Speaker 2: the hearings for the Royal Commission kicked off.
0:48
Speaker 3: I'll unpack day one in a moment.
0:50
Speaker 2: We also get reaction from Michael Danby and Cameron Milner.
0:54
Speaker 2: Plus the Boss of ASIO, Mike Burgess, has faced a
0:58
Speaker 2: shocking death threat by Universe City of Western Sydney's student,
1:01
Speaker 2: who allegedly threatened to chop him up. Those exclusive details
1:06
Speaker 2: in a moment, and we'll look at the Albanese government's
1:09
Speaker 2: broken promise on negative gearing as the Prime Minister.
1:13
Speaker 3: Did the rounds of Lake Burley Griffin.
1:16
Speaker 2: But first, the Anti Semitism Royal Commission began today. As
1:21
Speaker 2: a Jewish Australian, I found the harrowing testimony deeply emotional
1:25
Speaker 2: to watch. I speak about these issues every night, and
1:28
Speaker 2: have done so for the past two and a half years.
1:31
Speaker 2: But there was something profoundly moving about seeing a formal
1:35
Speaker 2: public inquiry give voice to experiences that have for too
1:39
Speaker 2: long been dismissed, minimized, or ignored. Now most of the
1:45
Speaker 2: testimony wasn't shocking or you it was familiar. It reflected
1:51
Speaker 2: what so many in our community have been living through
1:55
Speaker 2: the sudden and painful transformation of daily life.
1:59
Speaker 3: It's crept up on us over the past few years
2:03
Speaker 3: in a way that.
2:03
Speaker 2: Is sometimes difficult to recognize in the moment. It's been
2:08
Speaker 2: so gradual that many of us didn't fully grasp the
2:12
Speaker 2: scale of what was happening until our lives were already changed.
2:18
Speaker 2: The sense of ostracism, the feeling that Jewish Australians have
2:22
Speaker 2: been demonized not only in.
2:24
Speaker 3: The streets, but by institutions.
2:27
Speaker 2: Government, media, universities, cultural bodies and the arts community.
2:34
Speaker 4: The sharp spike in anti Semitism that we've witnessed in
2:39
Speaker 4: Australia has been mirrored in other Western countries and seems
2:44
Speaker 4: clearly linked to events in the Middle East. It's important
2:50
Speaker 4: that people understand how quickly those events can prompt ugly
2:56
Speaker 4: displays of hostility towards doing Australians simply because they're Jews.
3:03
Speaker 1: How does antisemitism survive when the world saw eighty years
3:07
Speaker 1: ago where it leads Religious, cultural, and racial antisemitism will persist.
3:14
Speaker 1: But one of the tasks of this hearing block is
3:16
Speaker 1: to identify and assess the current character of antisemitism in Australia.
3:21
Speaker 2: The Commission heard today about a public school teacher performing
3:25
Speaker 2: a hail hitler. It heard evidence of abuse towards Jews
3:29
Speaker 2: on public buses and the police not taking action. This
3:34
Speaker 2: is a shocking racism crisis that Australia failed to confront.
3:39
Speaker 2: In fact, those who claim to be against racism embraced
3:43
Speaker 2: this movement of hatred even as it dangerously escalated, Even.
3:48
Speaker 3: As it turned to violence.
3:50
Speaker 2: They excused it for being simply anti war, refusing to
3:55
Speaker 2: acknowledge that the vilification of Zionists was leading to attacks
3:59
Speaker 2: on Usustralian Jews. For too long, the real world experiences
4:05
Speaker 2: of Australian Jews was denied. The ABC largely failed to
4:11
Speaker 2: cover antisemitism at all.
4:14
Speaker 3: After October seven, the.
4:16
Speaker 2: Nine newspapers have focused on portraying Israel as the enemy,
4:20
Speaker 2: refusing to understand that they were playing into the persecution
4:24
Speaker 2: of Zionists in Jewish communities in Sydney, Melbourne and across
4:28
Speaker 2: the country. Yet, as the Commission reported today, there were
4:32
Speaker 2: two thousand and sixty two anti Semitic incidents in the
4:36
Speaker 2: year to September twenty twenty four, a three hundred percent
4:40
Speaker 2: increase on the year before. Today's hearing mattered because it
4:46
Speaker 2: placed specific examples and common experiences on the public record.
4:53
Speaker 2: The first witness was Shana Gutnik, whose father, Reuben Morrison
4:58
Speaker 2: bravely confronted the Shoe at Bondi and was killed for
5:02
Speaker 2: his courage. After this happened, Shana transformed no longer simply
5:08
Speaker 2: a Jewish mother. She became a powerful voice. She campaigned
5:14
Speaker 2: for this Royal Commission, and she held the Albanzi government
5:17
Speaker 2: to account. You may remember her from our Bondai documentary,
5:22
Speaker 2: but today she wasn't able to speak about the Bondai
5:25
Speaker 2: terror attack under the terms of reference of the Royal Commission,
5:29
Speaker 2: but she could speak about her own personal experiences.
5:35
Speaker 5: In December twenty twenty four, I was walking through Westfield
5:38
Speaker 5: Bondei junction holding my twelvemonth old baby. A man pointed
5:42
Speaker 5: at my Star of David necklace and called me an
5:44
Speaker 5: effing terrorist. I felt shocked, exposed and unsafe. There were
5:49
Speaker 5: many people around me, but no one intervened because I
5:52
Speaker 5: was holding my baby. My first instinct was to avoid
5:55
Speaker 5: any confrontation and get away safely.
5:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, terrible stories, but Shane is truly remarkable, and she's
6:02
Speaker 2: told me that she feels there was a Shaner before
6:04
Speaker 2: BONDEI are now a different Shaner after the attack, and
6:09
Speaker 2: you can see that she has her father's courage in
6:12
Speaker 2: her veins now. Community leader Alex Rifchin also gave evidence
6:17
Speaker 2: in his usual eloquent and strong way. He's been a
6:20
Speaker 2: tower of strength for our community. But most people don't
6:24
Speaker 2: realize the cost and the sacrifice of speaking publicly against
6:30
Speaker 2: anti Semitism. Well, Alex revealed that today.
6:35
Speaker 6: Week after week, streams of pages with abuse directed it myself.
6:40
Speaker 6: Not not merely abuse, I mean abuse is like wa
6:42
Speaker 6: off for Duck's back. At this point, we're talking about
6:44
Speaker 6: death threats, threats against my children, my wife, people seeking
6:49
Speaker 6: out my address, threatening my home, fixated individuals. I've dealt
6:54
Speaker 6: with dozens of individuals who day after day post about
6:58
Speaker 6: me in a personal way, who try through foinal photos
7:01
Speaker 6: and repost photos of my children.
7:04
Speaker 2: That is the cost for simply speaking against antisemitism. Alex
7:10
Speaker 2: also spoke in a more personal way about the attack
7:13
Speaker 2: on his former home during that summer of terror.
7:18
Speaker 6: We then went to the house and I inspected the damage,
7:21
Speaker 6: and I saw the red paint on the front wall
7:24
Speaker 6: signifying blood. I spoke to the neighbors and the joining
7:28
Speaker 6: property who had lived there for fifty years, and I
7:30
Speaker 6: went into their home and they embraced me, and they
7:32
Speaker 6: were fearful for my safety, and I was fearful for theirs.
7:36
Speaker 2: It's just shocking that his family was targeted in this way.
7:41
Speaker 2: And significantly, Alex also spoke about regular Jewish Australians calling
7:45
Speaker 2: him to ask if he tell them when it was
7:48
Speaker 2: time to leave.
7:50
Speaker 3: He powerfully said that he wouldn't leave.
7:53
Speaker 2: Quite an emotional comment. He said he would go down
7:56
Speaker 2: with the ship, but he understands others ah thinking of
8:00
Speaker 2: about it.
8:01
Speaker 6: There's a sense that no matter how good we have
8:03
Speaker 6: it in a place, at a point in time, we
8:05
Speaker 6: may always have to take flight and leave. And I've
8:08
Speaker 6: had families calling me and saying, completely calmly, saying, will
8:13
Speaker 6: you tell me when the time to go is? And
8:16
Speaker 6: I told them I would. I told them that I
8:19
Speaker 6: will counsel them and advise them. I'm not going anywhere.
8:22
Speaker 6: I'm going down with the ship if that's what is required.
8:25
Speaker 6: I love this country and I will continue to fight
8:28
Speaker 6: for the future of this country, in the future of
8:29
Speaker 6: my community in this country.
8:32
Speaker 2: Look since October seven, but especially in the wake of BONDI,
8:37
Speaker 2: you'd be hard pressed to find a Jewish Australian who
8:39
Speaker 2: hasn't thought about whether it's still safe to live in Australia.
8:44
Speaker 2: An eighty six year old Holocaust survivor, Peter Hallis, who
8:47
Speaker 2: owns the Seafolly swimwear brand, gave emotional evidence this afternoon
8:52
Speaker 2: about how he felt Australia provided a life where you
8:56
Speaker 2: were free to be a Jew in safety.
9:00
Speaker 7: What happening in Australia today is not a faint echo
9:03
Speaker 7: of a distant past. For those of us who lived
9:06
Speaker 7: through the nineteen thirties and nineteen forties. It is something
9:09
Speaker 7: that recognized, and that recognition is frightening and cause for alarm.
9:15
Speaker 2: The Royal Commission also heard evidence about those October nine
9:19
Speaker 2: protests at the Opera House, and one businessman spoke about
9:23
Speaker 2: how he watched police arrest a Jewish man, yet the
9:28
Speaker 2: Rabbit mob was left untouched.
9:30
Speaker 8: I said, the message conveyed to me on the evening
9:33
Speaker 8: Octoba night was unmistakable. The person expressing solidarity of the
9:37
Speaker 8: Jewish victims was treated as the problem, while those expressive
9:41
Speaker 8: violent hatred were given a free hand.
9:43
Speaker 9: The image that remained with me ever since.
9:46
Speaker 8: I'm not aware of any prosecutions resulting from the horrific display.
9:51
Speaker 8: In fact, what I do recall is the police that
9:53
Speaker 8: were there close to them had their backs to them,
9:57
Speaker 8: whereas the police that I saw in front were absolutely
10:00
Speaker 8: funding this man who didn't seem to be a danger.
10:04
Speaker 2: And he also revealed that a teacher at a public
10:07
Speaker 2: school had allegedly performed a Nazi salute in the classroom.
10:12
Speaker 2: He said that his granddaughter was in the class. She
10:16
Speaker 2: and her parents complained the principle apparently took it seriously
10:20
Speaker 2: and later apologized.
10:22
Speaker 3: Yet he said the teacher is still employed and there's
10:24
Speaker 3: been no visible outcome.
10:27
Speaker 8: A Jewish child who is sent to a mainstream Australian
10:30
Speaker 8: school in good faith, in the belief that she'd be
10:32
Speaker 8: welcomed and treated equally, she was, in our family's experience,
10:36
Speaker 8: driven out by anti Semitism, where by the teacher responsible
10:39
Speaker 8: face no apparent consequences. Her mother lost her friends simply
10:43
Speaker 8: because she's Jewish.
10:45
Speaker 9: This is not the Australia that I chose to call her.
10:55
Speaker 8: This is not the Australia which I believed my.
10:59
Speaker 9: Grandchildren we'll grow up. I loved this country.
11:03
Speaker 8: I thought we'd made a great choice.
11:06
Speaker 9: I thought this is our place forever.
11:11
Speaker 8: It's been very kind to me in my family of
11:14
Speaker 8: several businesses, I've mentored many people, I've employed thousands of people.
11:21
Speaker 8: I've contributed a great deal to this country. I've played
11:26
Speaker 8: huge taxes willfully gladly.
11:30
Speaker 2: And you can hear the emotion in his voice there.
11:34
Speaker 2: And he kept his identity secret for security reasons, but
11:37
Speaker 2: he did give testimony, as you heard now. I was
11:41
Speaker 2: particularly impressed by the counsel assisting both of them, but
11:44
Speaker 2: especially so Zellie Hager today in her opening address, I
11:48
Speaker 2: thought she gave a really good summation of the anti
11:51
Speaker 2: Semitism we've seen in Australia. She did refer to the
11:54
Speaker 2: role of the Upper House Protest to have a listened in.
11:58
Speaker 10: The immediate aftermath of that attack. On nine October, a
12:02
Speaker 10: demonstration took place in the fore court of the Sydney
12:05
Speaker 10: Opera House, where its sales had been lit up in
12:08
Speaker 10: the colors of the Israeli flag in solidarity with the
12:11
Speaker 10: victims and Israelian Jewish communities in a time when those
12:15
Speaker 10: communities were in a period of deep mourning. Some participants
12:20
Speaker 10: in that protest chanted the Jews or where are the Jews?
12:28
Speaker 2: She also spoke about the doxing of the creatives that
12:31
Speaker 2: WhatsApp group, and as you'll recall, Rounda Abdelphatar was involved
12:35
Speaker 2: in that. Yet she's idolized in some parts of the left.
12:39
Speaker 2: You'll recall that high profile ABC hosts John Lyons, Sarah
12:43
Speaker 2: Ferguson and others withdrew from the Adelaide Writers Festival after
12:48
Speaker 2: Randa was told she couldn't speak.
12:51
Speaker 5: Well.
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Speaker 3: Here's what Barrister Zelli Hager had to say about that. Doxing.
12:56
Speaker 10: In February twenty twenty four, the doxing of six hundred
12:59
Speaker 10: Jewish Crea natives who joined a private WhatsApp group. Doxing
13:04
Speaker 10: refers to the publication of personal details such as names,
13:08
Speaker 10: phone numbers without consent, and in this instance, participants names, businesses,
13:13
Speaker 10: work details and pictures were published alongside comments they'd made
13:17
Speaker 10: in the WhatsApp group, which made them vulnerable to online abuse,
13:21
Speaker 10: amongst other things.
13:23
Speaker 3: And Zelli then went on to speak about the Summer
13:26
Speaker 3: of terror.
13:28
Speaker 10: Later that year came what has been described as the
13:31
Speaker 10: Summer of Terror, which included the arson attack on the
13:35
Speaker 10: Adas Synagogue in Melbourne, another arson attack on a Kosher
13:39
Speaker 10: catering business in Bondai, a car being torched and cars
13:44
Speaker 10: and buildings targeted with anti Israel graffiti, and Wallara, a
13:47
Speaker 10: suburb with a high concentration of Jewish residents. The discovery
13:51
Speaker 10: of a caravan containing explosives in Dural capable of causing
13:55
Speaker 10: a mass casualty event, with documents suggesting that they were
13:59
Speaker 10: intended for out of submittic attack, and of course, tragically,
14:03
Speaker 10: in December twenty twenty five, the attack at Bondai.
14:07
Speaker 2: She was impressive and displayed a decent grasp of the issues.
14:12
Speaker 2: That said, in my opinion, there are flaws in the process.
14:16
Speaker 2: The Royal Commission said that submissions would remain open until
14:19
Speaker 2: May the thirty first, Yet it appears those who lodged
14:22
Speaker 2: submission's earliest have been prioritized for the hearings. That may
14:27
Speaker 2: mean some of the strongest or most urgent voices haven't
14:31
Speaker 2: been hurt and weren't hurt on day one. Here's another flaw.
14:36
Speaker 2: The pro Palestinian and anti Israel Jewish Council of Australia
14:41
Speaker 2: is allowed to give evidence and even.
14:43
Speaker 3: Question other witnesses. This is truly appalling. Jewish witnesses shouldn't.
14:49
Speaker 2: Be subject to interrogation by people who are effectively pro
14:54
Speaker 2: Palestinian activists.
14:56
Speaker 3: I believe this is a mistake that.
14:58
Speaker 2: Will only compound the of them. Still, for the most part,
15:02
Speaker 2: today was significant. For the first time in a long time,
15:07
Speaker 2: Jewish Australians were not simply expected to absorb, explain or endure.
15:13
Speaker 3: What has happened to us. We were heard, and let's
15:16
Speaker 3: hope it leads to genuine change.
15:24
Speaker 2: So, as I said, we heard today in the Royal
15:26
Speaker 2: Commission about threats against alex Rivchen and SHANEA.
15:29
Speaker 3: Gutnick Well.
15:30
Speaker 2: I can now reveal that the ASIO Director General, Mike Burgess,
15:34
Speaker 2: has also been facing an increasing number of threats and
15:38
Speaker 2: abuse in the months since the bond Aid terror attack.
15:42
Speaker 2: In one particularly terrible incident, a twenty eight year old
15:46
Speaker 2: University of Western Sydney's student allegedly threatened to chop him up.
15:52
Speaker 2: My understanding is that the student, pavez Asen Jendigiri, was
15:57
Speaker 2: arrested by New Southwales Police and char judged with one
16:01
Speaker 2: charge of sending a document threatening death or grievous bodily harm,
16:06
Speaker 2: two charges of stalking intimidating with the intent of causing
16:09
Speaker 2: the fear of physical harm, and one charge of using
16:13
Speaker 2: a carriage service to menace harm or offend. Police alleged
16:17
Speaker 2: that in April Yendigeery sent harassing emails to a professor
16:21
Speaker 2: at the University of Western Sydney and another staff member.
16:25
Speaker 2: In late April, he allegedly approached the staff member and
16:29
Speaker 2: handed him a note which included a threat to the
16:32
Speaker 2: ASIO chief. After being arrested, it's claimed he repeated the
16:36
Speaker 2: threat to the Director General.
16:39
Speaker 3: New Southeles police told me.
16:41
Speaker 2: And I quote they commenced an investigation after reports an
16:45
Speaker 2: offensive document and multiple emails were allegedly sent by a
16:49
Speaker 2: twenty eight year old man. The man from Kingswood was
16:53
Speaker 2: refused bail and will appear in court again on May
16:56
Speaker 2: twenty two. Now, Mike Burgess shown very strong leadership in
17:02
Speaker 2: calling out anti Semitism over the past two and a
17:05
Speaker 2: half years. He repeatedly warned that it posed the greatest
17:08
Speaker 2: threat to life in Australia. Unfortunately, his warnings often fell mostly.
17:14
Speaker 3: Fell on deaf ears.
17:16
Speaker 2: We saw little action from the Albanese government or civic leaders,
17:21
Speaker 2: and it's terrible to learn that he's been facing increased
17:26
Speaker 2: threats and abuse simply for calling out anti Semitism. On
17:36
Speaker 2: the day that the hearings for the Royal Commission began,
17:39
Speaker 2: I can now reveal that Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke's
17:42
Speaker 2: department has let a blatant anti Semite into the country.
17:48
Speaker 2: This is Nicholas ken Debilin Thasey, better known by his
17:53
Speaker 2: online name Sneako. He's an American YouTuber and social media personality.
17:59
Speaker 2: His ideology seems to be a confused mix of Islamist
18:03
Speaker 2: extremism and neo Nazi.
18:06
Speaker 6: Where do you live.
18:10
Speaker 9: In the center next to Teleview.
18:14
Speaker 6: Have you ever been with the Hamma soldier before? It
18:17
Speaker 6: could be my human shield.
18:20
Speaker 1: It's so fun.
18:22
Speaker 9: We can make this October seventh.
18:23
Speaker 6: Okay, that was too far.
18:25
Speaker 11: Oh my god.
18:26
Speaker 9: Okay.
18:29
Speaker 2: He's considered one of the most anti Semitic influences and
18:33
Speaker 2: associate and he associates with characters such as Holocaust denier
18:38
Speaker 2: Nick Fuentes and the Andy Semite Andrew Tate. In this
19:03
Speaker 2: next clip, Sneaker also threatened to eliminate Jews.
19:11
Speaker 12: Hiron hi mary aiahood.
19:16
Speaker 3: M holloa lon.
19:23
Speaker 2: He's saying a well known and hismitic slogan which is
19:26
Speaker 2: widely recognized as a jihadist chant used as a threat
19:30
Speaker 2: towards Jews. Right now, he's here already in Australia. That's
19:36
Speaker 2: him with Sonny Bill Williams this morning. You might recognize
19:40
Speaker 2: him from his feature on Louis Therow's recent documentary Manosphere.
19:45
Speaker 3: Now explain this. How was he given.
19:49
Speaker 2: A visa when he's been banned from multiple social media
19:53
Speaker 2: platforms numerous times over the years, Repeatedly banned from YouTube,
20:00
Speaker 2: it seems, currently banned from Instagram, banned from social media,
20:03
Speaker 2: yet allowed into Australia. These are the kinds of people
20:07
Speaker 2: the Albertezy government is letting in Australia, even while they're
20:12
Speaker 2: holding Royal Commission hearings into anti Semitism. They wouldn't give
20:16
Speaker 2: visas to regular Israelis like Simra Rothmann, Hillel Forder Alete Shaked,
20:22
Speaker 2: but they issued a visa to a well known anti
20:25
Speaker 2: Semitic individual banned on social media.
20:29
Speaker 3: Now we asked.
20:30
Speaker 2: Tony Burk's and media advisor how Sneaker was screened. His
20:34
Speaker 2: offers declined to comment. For a government literally holding a
20:38
Speaker 2: royal commission into anti Semitism, a good place Virginia Bell
20:42
Speaker 2: to actually start would be the Office of Home Affairs
20:45
Speaker 2: to examine why it lets andy Semites like this into
20:50
Speaker 2: the country. Now, for more on this, I'm joined by
20:58
Speaker 2: the former Department of Home Affairs Stry Michael Pazulo. Mike,
21:02
Speaker 2: thank you very much for joining me to discuss all
21:05
Speaker 2: of these really important topics. Look to start with, I
21:08
Speaker 2: want to ask you about how visa could be issued
21:12
Speaker 2: to someone like this that report that I just brought you.
21:15
Speaker 3: Are you concerned with.
21:16
Speaker 2: The visa vetting process at the moment and has anything changed?
21:24
Speaker 13: Good evening, Chari, look, in the first instance, I'd want
21:27
Speaker 13: to examine why the delegate in this case thought it
21:32
Speaker 13: was appropriate. You don't want to completely assume that there's
21:36
Speaker 13: been an area. You want to understand the reason rationale.
21:40
Speaker 13: On the assumption that they applied the character test and
21:42
Speaker 13: all of the character provisions accurately, I can't really see
21:46
Speaker 13: how a visa would have been granted in the circumstances.
21:48
Speaker 13: Hopefully it's a subject to review. The key thing for
21:52
Speaker 13: your viewers to understand is that there are character provisions
21:54
Speaker 13: in the law actually very strong. There is no freedom
21:57
Speaker 13: of speech issue here. The man is as clearly a
22:00
Speaker 13: foreign citizen. He doesn't have any free rights here to
22:04
Speaker 13: express those views. We can and should be banning him
22:08
Speaker 13: from coming. The question I've got in my mind is
22:11
Speaker 13: is the team under pressure. The resources in the department
22:14
Speaker 13: are being cut. The Secretary, just ironically, just a couple
22:18
Speaker 13: of days before the Bell Interim Rawal Commission report came out,
22:21
Speaker 13: announcedays very significant redundancy program. That concerns me. I'm also concerned,
22:28
Speaker 13: Shari at the dismantling of the intelligence function that's been
22:31
Speaker 13: progressively underway for about two years in the department. We
22:35
Speaker 13: used to have, or I shouldn't say we. The department
22:37
Speaker 13: used to have an intelligence division of about four hundred
22:40
Speaker 13: and fifty analysts and very skilled intelligence officers. Their job
22:45
Speaker 13: would better screen run algorithms over social media and the like.
22:49
Speaker 13: I can't when I look at the organization chart, I
22:51
Speaker 13: can't see that function anymore. So there are very significant
22:54
Speaker 13: questions about processes, about workforce capability, about workforce strength, and
22:59
Speaker 13: about the application of technology, and where is the intelligence
23:02
Speaker 13: function gone.
23:04
Speaker 3: So, just picking up.
23:05
Speaker 2: Your comment there about the intelligence division within hom of
23:07
Speaker 2: Airs that does vetting and screening of applicants like this,
23:12
Speaker 2: is it your understanding that this has been dismantled by
23:16
Speaker 2: the Albanezy government since your departure.
23:21
Speaker 13: Well, I certainly can't find any reference in the organization
23:23
Speaker 13: chart to an intelligence division. I assume that the functions
23:26
Speaker 13: have been dispersed and fragmented. There must be analysts working somewhere.
23:29
Speaker 13: What I found as secretary, and I was secretary for
23:32
Speaker 13: nine years, including in the case of Home Affairs for
23:35
Speaker 13: six years, is that when you scale functions, you bring
23:38
Speaker 13: people together, you train them up, and you give them
23:40
Speaker 13: tools and technology, they do a far better job per
23:43
Speaker 13: individual officer to the credit of both the Abbott and
23:45
Speaker 13: Turnbull governments, they funded a visa technology screening tool. I
23:50
Speaker 13: won't go into the technicalities, we don't have time, but
23:52
Speaker 13: it was basically a very early version of large language
23:55
Speaker 13: model and AI capability that would run across all the
23:59
Speaker 13: visa application. But that technology must be at least let
24:03
Speaker 13: me think about eleven years old, so it's certainly up
24:05
Speaker 13: for a refresh. The kind of tools you have now
24:08
Speaker 13: with advanced AI tools, whether it's an anthropic tool or
24:11
Speaker 13: an open AI tool, I would pick up some of
24:15
Speaker 13: the content that you've just displayed, would pick that up
24:18
Speaker 13: as a matter of automatic screening, and would present to
24:22
Speaker 13: the officer. Look, here are some evidence points that would
24:26
Speaker 13: speak to a denial. You should consider denial because if
24:29
Speaker 13: fits the parameters. If I was the government, I'd be
24:33
Speaker 13: certainly looking at that kind of investment because that technology
24:35
Speaker 13: that they have is probably the best part of a
24:37
Speaker 13: decade old.
24:38
Speaker 3: I'd say, yeah, and it's clearly not working.
24:41
Speaker 2: I'm keen on your thoughts on the interim report into
24:45
Speaker 2: law enforcement and Security that came out on Thursday. I
24:48
Speaker 2: spoke about it at length on the show both Wednesday
24:50
Speaker 2: and Thursday Night. I mean from the counter terrorism coordinator
24:54
Speaker 2: to the downgrading of counter terror architecture?
24:58
Speaker 3: What concerned you the most?
25:02
Speaker 13: What was striking to me? And I've been out for
25:05
Speaker 13: two and a half years, so if the Bell Report
25:08
Speaker 13: was the first time I really had any detailed insight
25:10
Speaker 13: into how our CT architecture is functioning. I was really
25:15
Speaker 13: quite surprised at what your viewers might think are quite
25:19
Speaker 13: mundane recommendations, very basic recommendations like the holding of exercises,
25:23
Speaker 13: regular briefings to the National Security Committee, which the government
25:27
Speaker 13: all has accepted, so they must accept that there's a problem.
25:30
Speaker 13: But in chapter six, what surprised me, Shari was just
25:33
Speaker 13: how basic those issues were, and the Commissioner set out
25:39
Speaker 13: in her report these are the things that need to
25:41
Speaker 13: be done urgently, So she didn't recommend anything unless there's
25:44
Speaker 13: something in the classified chapter five that we don't know
25:46
Speaker 13: about or can't know about. But all of the recommendations
25:49
Speaker 13: fall to, regrettably my former department. So it was a
25:52
Speaker 13: bit dispiriting, I have to say, to read it on
25:55
Speaker 13: the coordinator role, just a by way of clarification, together
26:00
Speaker 13: under mister Turnbull, of all the functions that were previously
26:04
Speaker 13: distributed between Customs, Immigration attorney generals. You needed a coordinate
26:08
Speaker 13: it because I basically these functions were scattered amongst five
26:10
Speaker 13: or six different departments. The genius of what Turnbull did
26:14
Speaker 13: was by saying, no, I want it under one minister,
26:16
Speaker 13: one secretary, one department, is that you move from a
26:19
Speaker 13: coordination paradigm to an integration paradigm. However, when there's a crisis,
26:25
Speaker 13: that deputy secretary who reports the secretary in that delivery
26:28
Speaker 13: role has to drop everything, put their coordinator hat back
26:32
Speaker 13: on and start running these national crisis arrangements that Virginia
26:37
Speaker 13: Bell speaks about in her report. It's clear that that
26:40
Speaker 13: doesn't appear to have happened after the October twenty three attack.
26:45
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't add on given this threat of terrorism,
26:49
Speaker 2: you think it one hundred percent should be a full
26:52
Speaker 2: time role, not something that has become a part time position.
26:55
Speaker 1: Look.
26:56
Speaker 2: I've been doing a lot of interviews about this topic
26:58
Speaker 2: over the past couple of year, and to me, it
27:01
Speaker 2: seems like the biggest threat to life to the Jewish
27:04
Speaker 2: community in Australia comes from radical Islamist extremists. But everyone
27:10
Speaker 2: I've interviewed can't give any solid answer about what should
27:14
Speaker 2: be done about this threat. What would you do if
27:18
Speaker 2: you were in Home Affairs as secretary?
27:20
Speaker 13: Now, well, continue doing what we were doing up until
27:28
Speaker 13: October twenty three, but then intensify it. We particularly once
27:31
Speaker 13: the Caliphate was smashed and collapsed in twenty nineteen, the
27:35
Speaker 13: work on counter radicalization and countering violent extremism, as well
27:39
Speaker 13: as keeping foreign fighters away from our shores as best
27:43
Speaker 13: as we could with either citizenship stripping and or temporary exclusion.
27:47
Speaker 13: That work never stopped, Charlie after twenty nineteen, After twenty three,
27:51
Speaker 13: particularly after the abhorrent scenes at the Opera House that
27:54
Speaker 13: were referenced earlier today by Counsel assisting that effort should
27:58
Speaker 13: have become a full time task. For that you and
28:00
Speaker 13: I and others have spoken about basically from the time.
28:05
Speaker 13: So this is not hindsight and we have to be
28:08
Speaker 13: honest about this Shari. It's not the whole Muslim community.
28:11
Speaker 13: They're about one hundred and eighty thousand, sorry, eight hundred thousand,
28:14
Speaker 13: I should say identified Muslim adherents in Australia. It's a
28:19
Speaker 13: very small fraction though, of radical aggressive men. Typically it's
28:25
Speaker 13: a radical aggressive men who hold those barrent views, mainly
28:31
Speaker 13: in Sydney and Melbourne, a few elsewhere. It's a very
28:34
Speaker 13: targeted problem that can be rectified by a targeted solution,
28:38
Speaker 13: some of which is about asio and law enforcement, but
28:41
Speaker 13: a lot of it is frankly about community engagement, which
28:44
Speaker 13: is why we were so determined in the years that
28:47
Speaker 13: I just mentioned to move the multicultural and community liaison
28:50
Speaker 13: function away from what I used what I used to
28:53
Speaker 13: call the festival's function, which is really about celebrating diversity,
28:57
Speaker 13: and really switch it to looking for the security challenges,
29:01
Speaker 13: not just in that community, because other communities are also
29:03
Speaker 13: concerned about foreign influence, of foreign interference and coercion, but
29:08
Speaker 13: really it's working with the community leaders, particularly in Sydney
29:12
Speaker 13: and Melbourne, frankly, to identify the hotheads, get to them early,
29:17
Speaker 13: and then working with the relevant state jurisdiction, which is
29:19
Speaker 13: typically in New South Wales of Victoria, put them on
29:22
Speaker 13: diversion programs and be very explicit about it. It was
29:26
Speaker 13: working very well between the collapse of the caliphate in
29:30
Speaker 13: twenty nineteen and then the latter part of twenty three
29:33
Speaker 13: when I left. What I think has happened is I
29:36
Speaker 13: don't think there was a sufficient appreciation In October twenty
29:39
Speaker 13: three of how this could take off, because inevitably, whatever
29:43
Speaker 13: you think about the rights or wrongs of the Israeli response,
29:46
Speaker 13: whatever you think about the strategy that Prime Minster Netna
29:49
Speaker 13: who has pursued, there was going to be a reaction,
29:54
Speaker 13: whether it was in Lebanon, Gaza, the West Bank down
29:58
Speaker 13: in Yemen and.
29:58
Speaker 2: Ultimately in a sack into a And as we saw
30:01
Speaker 2: in Australia, there was the reaction before the response even happened.
30:05
Speaker 3: You know, which is extraordinary.
30:07
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Look, Mike Gazulo, it seems like your expertise is
30:11
Speaker 2: needed in the Albaneezy government quite desperately.
30:15
Speaker 3: I would say, not that we expect them to take it.
30:17
Speaker 13: They have my number, so someone to pull me.
30:21
Speaker 1: They can.
30:22
Speaker 2: Thank you very much for joining us tonight. Really appreciate
30:24
Speaker 2: your insights. Still to come Albanezy's spin ahead of the budget,
30:29
Speaker 2: plus more analysis from the Royal Commission and serious questions
30:32
Speaker 2: over whether Australia became complacent on counter terror. Jonathan Duniam,
30:37
Speaker 2: the Shadow Home Affairs, will joined me after the break. Well,
30:43
Speaker 2: welcome back. We're going to go to some breaking news now.
30:45
Speaker 2: The Daily Telegraph is exclusively reporting that the Forum demanding
30:51
Speaker 2: the right to say. The violent slogan globalize the Interofata
30:54
Speaker 2: at a Cydney of Sydney owned building has been canceled
30:58
Speaker 2: after intense public backlash.
31:00
Speaker 3: The Daily Telegraph.
31:00
Speaker 2: Editor Ben English has just let me know and it's
31:02
Speaker 2: on their website right now. They're reporting that the Sydney
31:06
Speaker 2: Lord Mayor Clovermore, has pulled the pin on this highly
31:10
Speaker 2: controversial events scheduled to be held on Tuesday night.
31:13
Speaker 3: She was resisting this for some weeks.
31:16
Speaker 2: This took a dedicated campaign by the Daily Telegraph and
31:19
Speaker 2: a huge congratulations.
31:21
Speaker 3: To them for campaigning on this.
31:23
Speaker 10: It is a.
31:23
Speaker 2: Dangerous slogan globalized the Intofada just months after the Bondied
31:27
Speaker 2: terror attack.
31:28
Speaker 3: Good on them from campaigning on it.
31:30
Speaker 2: And they're reporting now that Clovermore has caved and it
31:34
Speaker 2: will not go ahead.
31:36
Speaker 3: All right, Let's return.
31:37
Speaker 2: To other major exclusive revelations on the show tonight that
31:40
Speaker 2: Tony Burke has given it an American anti Semite sneako
31:44
Speaker 2: a visa to come to Australia and he's already here.
31:47
Speaker 2: Plus that the Albanezy government has dismantled the intelligence division
31:51
Speaker 2: within Home Affairs that would help identify problematic individuals like
31:55
Speaker 2: this for more. I'm joined by Shadow Home Affairs and
31:57
Speaker 2: Immigration Minister Jonathan Dunniam Johono.
32:00
Speaker 3: Welcome to the show.
32:02
Speaker 2: Look, Mike Bizulo just revealed on the show you might
32:05
Speaker 2: have heard that there has been this dismant dismantling of
32:09
Speaker 2: the Intelligence division within Home Affairs since his departure. What's
32:12
Speaker 2: your comment.
32:13
Speaker 14: On this, Well, it explains a lot, Shari, I mean
32:19
Speaker 14: the idea that we're letting in the people that we
32:21
Speaker 14: are from Mizzan, ar Rama Azari and Sheik Al Mahalad,
32:26
Speaker 14: and of course now this sneak O that you've talked about.
32:30
Speaker 14: If you've not got people inside the Department of Home
32:33
Speaker 14: Affairs doing the work that they need to be doing
32:36
Speaker 14: to ensure that the people that are coming in actually
32:39
Speaker 14: the kind of people we want here, then of course
32:41
Speaker 14: we're going to end up in this situation. And it's
32:43
Speaker 14: then left to the vigilant people, particularly in the Jewish community,
32:47
Speaker 14: who I know have kept a close eye on people
32:50
Speaker 14: that are coming into this country, like the hate preachers
32:53
Speaker 14: I mentioned before, and of course Sneako who then let
32:57
Speaker 14: people like you and me know and only then do
32:59
Speaker 14: the ad act so they don't take this role that
33:03
Speaker 14: they have seriously to protect our country and make sure
33:06
Speaker 14: that our visa system has integrity. They're happy to sort
33:08
Speaker 14: of turn a blind eye and hope for the best.
33:10
Speaker 14: But it's those sorts of actions and decisions that lead
33:14
Speaker 14: of course to BONDI when you have people like that
33:16
Speaker 14: in our community.
33:17
Speaker 2: Well, do you think that Tony Burke should cancel the
33:20
Speaker 2: visa of this American YouTuber sneaker?
33:25
Speaker 14: Without question? And as you've said in your editorial, and
33:29
Speaker 14: for anyone who goes and googles this individual, this strange
33:34
Speaker 14: character is a misogynist, He praises Hitler, he is an
33:38
Speaker 14: anti Semite, and you showed a short, sanitized selection of
33:42
Speaker 14: some of the things he says and does. That is
33:45
Speaker 14: not the kind of person we want here. And if
33:46
Speaker 14: the soulless organizations that our social media platforms thought it
33:51
Speaker 14: was wise to ban him and deplatform him in a sense,
33:55
Speaker 14: then why on earth is he working his way through
33:57
Speaker 14: our system? So Tony Burke could again pick up the
34:01
Speaker 14: ball that he and his department have dropped and canceled
34:04
Speaker 14: this visa for this latest exposure of a broken visa
34:07
Speaker 14: system in this country, we'll see, I mean.
34:11
Speaker 2: His office refused to comment to us tonight, so we'll
34:13
Speaker 2: see if there's any action overnight on this. I also
34:16
Speaker 2: reported early in the show that the ASIO Director General,
34:19
Speaker 2: Mike Burgess, has been facing increased security threats since the
34:22
Speaker 2: bond Aid terror attack, simply for speaking out against anti Semitism.
34:26
Speaker 3: What's your comment on this?
34:30
Speaker 14: Well, as you said earlier as well, Shari, all Mike
34:34
Speaker 14: Burgess has done is his job as our leading spy,
34:38
Speaker 14: as someone who has the intelligence that we need to
34:42
Speaker 14: make decisions to protect our country as his number one priority,
34:46
Speaker 14: and he's called out rightly the anti Semitism that has
34:50
Speaker 14: been festering and bubbling away in our community, again leading
34:54
Speaker 14: to what happened at the end of last year in
34:56
Speaker 14: Bondi those tragic events. And so those same people who
35:00
Speaker 14: run around the community defacing property, uttering threats to members
35:05
Speaker 14: of the Jewish community, congregating and doing the things they
35:08
Speaker 14: do are the same people that I dare say this
35:11
Speaker 14: individual that made these threats would be a part of
35:15
Speaker 14: the group of So we have to stand strong, and
35:20
Speaker 14: I know Mike Burges won't be deterred by this, But
35:22
Speaker 14: what a sad turn of events that the very things
35:25
Speaker 14: that have been affecting our community so badly over the
35:28
Speaker 14: last couple of years and perhaps longer, are still happening
35:32
Speaker 14: while there's a Royal Commission into these very insidious elements
35:36
Speaker 14: of our society underway right now.
35:39
Speaker 2: You've had a few days now to digest the Royal
35:42
Speaker 2: Commission's interim report into law enforcement and security. What are
35:47
Speaker 2: your main takeouts and are you concerned that the Albanezer
35:50
Speaker 2: government had a complacent attitude towards the threat of both
35:54
Speaker 2: anti Semitism and terrorism.
35:59
Speaker 14: I think it's aim for all to see that they
36:01
Speaker 14: are and were complacent in relation to anti Semitism and terrorism,
36:06
Speaker 14: and this set of issues, along with the matter you
36:09
Speaker 14: mentioned before with the intelligence unit within Home Affairs being disbanded,
36:13
Speaker 14: things will be examining at estimates. But the fact that
36:16
Speaker 14: you had the terror threat level for this country lifted
36:20
Speaker 14: to probable fifty percent plus chance of a terror event
36:24
Speaker 14: occurring in this country in August of twenty twenty four,
36:28
Speaker 14: what nearly a year after the terrible events in Israel
36:31
Speaker 14: of October twenty twenty three, and the Department did not
36:36
Speaker 14: activate the full time terror coordinator role and still haven't
36:41
Speaker 14: I think is frankly an abrogation, abdication of responsibility the
36:47
Speaker 14: fact that they haven't seen fit to allocate the resources
36:51
Speaker 14: necessary to support that role, and of course I think
36:56
Speaker 14: you would know as well as me. In that week
36:58
Speaker 14: following Bondai, it was astounding to be picking up from
37:02
Speaker 14: members of the media from right across the country. I
37:05
Speaker 14: remember one journalist telling me from Western Australia facts about
37:09
Speaker 14: the accused shooters, the perpetrators, the acrums that I didn't
37:14
Speaker 14: find out about from government agencies until it was reported
37:18
Speaker 14: in the media about the trip to the Philippines, for example.
37:21
Speaker 14: So there was no information sharing between state, territory and
37:24
Speaker 14: Commonwealth agencies and that is something that remains very concerning
37:28
Speaker 14: for me and I hope the Royal Commission does get
37:30
Speaker 14: to the bottom of this, but it does paint that
37:32
Speaker 14: picture of complacency and ill preparedness.
37:36
Speaker 2: I agree the information show information flow is a major issue.
37:39
Speaker 2: Jonathan Dunniam, thank you very much for joining us. Right
37:43
Speaker 2: still to come more on the breaking news, the inter
37:45
Speaker 2: fighter event counseled or get to that with Michael Danby
37:48
Speaker 2: and Cameron Milner in a moment and Labour's budget headache
37:52
Speaker 2: getting worse. Chris Richardson would join us shortly. Okay, let's
37:59
Speaker 2: turn to the federal budget just eight days away, and
38:01
Speaker 2: we're hearing more from the Prime Minister and Treasurer about
38:04
Speaker 2: what they're planning. Albanezi gave each TV network an interview
38:09
Speaker 2: on the weekend where he made the case for increasing
38:11
Speaker 2: taxes to property investors.
38:14
Speaker 11: One of the things that young people say to me,
38:16
Speaker 11: but also importantly parents and grandparents, they'll say, I'm really
38:22
Speaker 11: worried that particularly older restraints worry about the grand kids.
38:26
Speaker 11: Young people at the moment feel like they don't have
38:29
Speaker 11: a fair crack at the housing market. What you'll see
38:33
Speaker 11: in the budget is a range of measures that are
38:37
Speaker 11: consistent with the values.
38:38
Speaker 13: So that we took to the election.
38:41
Speaker 2: Literally just doing the rounds of Lake Burley Griffin, it seems,
38:44
Speaker 2: and never mind that it's actually a broken promise.
38:48
Speaker 12: Categorically negative gearing is off the table, and he.
38:54
Speaker 3: Confirmed there that it was.
38:55
Speaker 2: Let's bring in now former Labor Chief of Staff Cameron
38:57
Speaker 2: Milner and farmer Labor and Mike good danby great to
39:01
Speaker 2: see you both, I mean, Cameron. A classic broken promise
39:04
Speaker 2: here as they clearly look for more tax revenue.
39:09
Speaker 12: Well they do, but also a classic act of political plagiarism.
39:12
Speaker 12: I mean these are all Shortened ideas, but Shortened went
39:14
Speaker 12: to two elections with each of these ideas, capital gas
39:17
Speaker 12: tax changes, negative gearing, family trusts, every single elbow idea
39:21
Speaker 12: in next week's budget is something short and raised and
39:23
Speaker 12: was denigrated for by the Albinistas by Albo's own small
39:27
Speaker 12: small target supporters. So no, an absolute act of political
39:30
Speaker 12: plagiarism and great ten years ten years after Shortened suggest
39:34
Speaker 12: that Alba's finally going implemented as labor policy. Well that's
39:37
Speaker 12: good because I think Charmers actually needs to have a
39:39
Speaker 12: reformist budget, and Albut needs to get out of the
39:42
Speaker 12: way with the small targetism and let Labour get on
39:44
Speaker 12: with being labor.
39:46
Speaker 2: I mean, you call it a reformers' budget, but Michael Danby,
39:49
Speaker 2: to me, this doesn't seem like genuine reform.
39:52
Speaker 3: It's increasing taxes.
39:55
Speaker 15: If Cameron would have been Bill Shorten's chief of staff
39:59
Speaker 15: when Bill wrote that economic suicide note that lost in
40:02
Speaker 15: the election, he would never have written it. So I
40:04
Speaker 15: don't think it's a good idea now, Cameron. I didn't
40:06
Speaker 15: think it was a good idea then I had all
40:09
Speaker 15: of the small investors, labor voting principles and nurses and
40:14
Speaker 15: policemen ringing me up saying please, we want to vote Labor,
40:17
Speaker 15: but we can't do this. This will be another massive
40:19
Speaker 15: whack against.
40:22
Speaker 12: The albert government my next election, but they'll still loose.
40:27
Speaker 12: I have to correct the record. Franking credits is what
40:30
Speaker 12: you referred to, which was in twenty nineteen. I wasn't
40:32
Speaker 12: the chief of staff then, and I think we can
40:34
Speaker 12: both agree franking credits was too far, but capital gains,
40:36
Speaker 12: tax turn changes, negative gearing and family trusts were all
40:39
Speaker 12: good at Labor ideas to make sure that tax reform
40:42
Speaker 12: and tax fairness is put back in our system.
40:45
Speaker 2: Michael, do you want to respond to that, because I
40:47
Speaker 2: mean a lot of people think, oh, this will just
40:48
Speaker 2: hit the wealthy, but there's a lot of average mum
40:51
Speaker 2: and dad investors who've made decisions based on financial arrangements
40:56
Speaker 2: and for that to be suddenly thrown up in the
40:58
Speaker 2: air will be very difficult. And you know, I'm going
41:00
Speaker 2: to speak to Chris Richardson about this later, but the
41:02
Speaker 2: issue is they're just going to pass it on to
41:05
Speaker 2: the renters anyway.
41:06
Speaker 3: So in the form of higher rance.
41:09
Speaker 15: We all know the ethnic Croatian and Greek and Italian
41:14
Speaker 15: mums and dads who've invested in a second property. It's
41:17
Speaker 15: going to affect them. Are they high flyers or billionaires?
41:20
Speaker 15: Of course they're not. And this is the sort of Oh,
41:23
Speaker 15: we're not against the old, but we're going to affect
41:25
Speaker 15: all of these old timers who've made proper investments. I
41:27
Speaker 15: don't think it's spare Cameron, and I certainly didn't accuse
41:30
Speaker 15: you of being the idiot responsible for the fringe benefits tax.
41:33
Speaker 3: All right, let's get on to some other topics.
41:37
Speaker 12: We know.
41:39
Speaker 2: I'm keen to get both of your reactions to the
41:41
Speaker 2: first day of public hearings for the Royal Commission today.
41:44
Speaker 3: Cameron, what stood out for you?
41:47
Speaker 6: Oh?
41:47
Speaker 12: Look, I think that counselor is opening address. I mean, look,
41:49
Speaker 12: how many times we had incidents horrible in Cincid anti
41:52
Speaker 12: Semitism after the hamss tacks, and yet it took to Bondai
41:56
Speaker 12: for this governor to do something about it. And weeks
41:57
Speaker 12: after Bondai and this is a prime Minster. Yea that
42:00
Speaker 12: synagogue was burning burning, kept playing tennis with a lobbyist
42:04
Speaker 12: at Cottislight. What sort of single did that send Australians
42:06
Speaker 12: For three weeks he denied calling a Royal Commission after
42:09
Speaker 12: BONDI I mean, this bloke's been brought kicking and screaming
42:12
Speaker 12: to the right decision, and the Royal Commission is the
42:14
Speaker 12: right decision. But let's never ever have the long list
42:17
Speaker 12: of Andy sevenism ever again. Best be looked over and
42:20
Speaker 12: set aside by this government. No Royal Commission has got
42:23
Speaker 12: to set things right for the future.
42:26
Speaker 2: Michael, as a fellow Jewish Australian, did you find it
42:29
Speaker 2: both well? This is how I found it, both confronting
42:32
Speaker 2: and also kind of cathartic hearing this all play out
42:36
Speaker 2: in public hearing, the public testimony.
42:38
Speaker 15: It was good, as you said, Shary, that people's voices
42:41
Speaker 15: were allowed to be heard. But there's a thread running
42:43
Speaker 15: from this program straight through to that Royal Commission, and
42:47
Speaker 15: that is if you do nothing at times when you
42:49
Speaker 15: might have done things, that's what's the cause of events.
42:52
Speaker 15: It's the creation of the zeitgeist in the period from
42:56
Speaker 15: October seven right through the recognition of Israel and the
43:02
Speaker 15: condemnations the United Nations and letting all of these loonies
43:06
Speaker 15: run right in the streets. All of that led to
43:09
Speaker 15: an atmosphere and the people who are in power, particularly
43:12
Speaker 15: in canber are responsible for it, and thank Eavans you
43:16
Speaker 15: for the Sky Network and for the Daily Telegraph in
43:20
Speaker 15: putting a stop to and the Australian putting a stop
43:22
Speaker 15: to some of it.
43:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just news cop and important. Both of you
43:27
Speaker 2: are important commentators from Labor on this topic as well.
43:31
Speaker 2: I want to get back to the tragic story in
43:33
Speaker 2: Alice Springs. I mean, despite the death of Kuman Jay
43:37
Speaker 2: little baby, it doesn't seem like the Labor government is
43:40
Speaker 2: ready to have a frank discussion about the conditions in
43:42
Speaker 2: the town camps.
43:43
Speaker 3: Have a look.
43:45
Speaker 10: Do you think there would be value to hold an
43:48
Speaker 10: inquiry into town camps, the funding the livings down.
43:52
Speaker 3: It's ultimately to make sure that kids are kept safe.
43:54
Speaker 11: I think we know what the solutions are and that's
43:58
Speaker 11: why we're contributing about full billion dollars for housing in
44:03
Speaker 11: remote areas.
44:05
Speaker 2: He's just still doing the lapse around late Burley Griffin
44:08
Speaker 2: with every.
44:09
Speaker 3: Single TV outlet.
44:10
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just extraordinary how they all accepted the
44:13
Speaker 2: same shot, the same interview. But anyway, Cameron, we know
44:16
Speaker 2: the money isn't working. Everyone was horrified when Leam Mendes
44:19
Speaker 2: first came on this show and showed the photographs that
44:21
Speaker 2: he took at that Little Baby's five year old girl
44:25
Speaker 2: but known as Little Baby's House.
44:29
Speaker 12: Isn't it tragic and awful? But these are not new photographs.
44:32
Speaker 12: I mean Alice has been burning. Alice has got riots
44:35
Speaker 12: going on. You know, people in the community are crying
44:37
Speaker 12: out for just basic law and order, and you're going
44:39
Speaker 12: to fly and fly out Prime Minister who's spent four
44:41
Speaker 12: hours on the ground, four hours on the ground and
44:43
Speaker 12: didn't want to know about Alice again, so you know,
44:45
Speaker 12: cry the crocodile tears over this awful, tragic situation, Prime Minister.
44:49
Speaker 12: But it was on your watch that Alice is burning.
44:52
Speaker 2: I mean he should be going there, Michael. This is
44:54
Speaker 2: an urgent child's safety issue.
44:58
Speaker 15: But as he says, they've spen ending four billion dollars,
45:01
Speaker 15: where's it going? I think just center Price. Senator Price
45:07
Speaker 15: and the head of the Aboriginal Commission, the woman Hunter,
45:11
Speaker 15: are both dead right. There needs to be as Sinner
45:13
Speaker 15: has been asking for an audit, where does this money go,
45:17
Speaker 15: who does it go to? How is it spent? If
45:20
Speaker 15: there are Aboriginal elders who are misspending it, they were
45:22
Speaker 15: to be shamed and the money ought to be redirected
45:25
Speaker 15: so that little girls like this are never put in
45:28
Speaker 15: this kind of obscene danger.
45:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was just so shocking and it touched everyone
45:33
Speaker 2: I spoke to us so devastated by what that little
45:37
Speaker 2: girl went through and what her life had been like
45:39
Speaker 2: up until that point, for judging from the conditions that
45:42
Speaker 2: we saw. Just very quickly before we go back to
45:45
Speaker 2: this breaking news tonight from the Daily Telegraph that Sidney
45:47
Speaker 2: Lloyd Mayor Clovermore has finally decided to shut down that
45:51
Speaker 2: horrible event that's called why It's right to say globalize
45:54
Speaker 2: the Intervarta, I mean Cameron right decision, but boy did
45:58
Speaker 2: she have to be pushed, kicking and screaming.
46:01
Speaker 12: To take it, and three weeks too late. I mean,
46:04
Speaker 12: if the Nazi Australia Party had said let's have a
46:06
Speaker 12: Jew hating party, it would have been canceled or even
46:08
Speaker 12: even seen by Sydney Sidney Channel. But Clovermore let the
46:12
Speaker 12: globalized in the FATA festiva three weeks three weeks and
46:15
Speaker 12: was shamed into it by the Daily Telegraph and the
46:18
Speaker 12: Jewish Committee, shamed into making the right decision. It's disgusting
46:21
Speaker 12: if it's the hard Left being being anti Jewish or
46:25
Speaker 12: the Nazi Australia Party being anti Jewish. It's still being
46:27
Speaker 12: anti Jewish and it should stop.
46:29
Speaker 2: Indeed, all right, Camera Milan and Michael Dan, be great
46:31
Speaker 2: to have you both on the show. Still to come,
46:35
Speaker 2: Labour's budget headache getting worse with a property tax grab
46:38
Speaker 2: and runaway spending. Leading economist Chris Richardson would join me next.
46:46
Speaker 2: All right, So much breaking news tonight. Sidney Lord Mayor
46:48
Speaker 2: Clover Moore has now issued a statement.
46:50
Speaker 3: Here's what she says.
46:51
Speaker 2: She says, during a time where global conflicts are already
46:55
Speaker 2: contributing to heightened anxiety and division, and coinciding with the
46:58
Speaker 2: first hearing block of the Royal Commission on Anti Semitism,
47:02
Speaker 2: it is essential that public events do not contribute to
47:05
Speaker 2: hostility and fear. Therefore, I have asked the city's CEO
47:08
Speaker 2: to withdraw the booking of an event in a city
47:11
Speaker 2: owned venue that is advertised as why it is right
47:14
Speaker 2: to say globalized into FATA. Now might just read you
47:16
Speaker 2: a couple more lines from this statement, because it's extraordinary.
47:20
Speaker 2: She says anti Semitism, Islamophobia and anti Palestinian racism has risen.
47:27
Speaker 2: Yet she defends the fact that she marched on the
47:30
Speaker 2: Harbor Bridge and disagrees that any of the protests against
47:36
Speaker 2: Israel's war can contribute to anti Semitism, and she also
47:40
Speaker 2: blames the Daily Telegraph for all of this fuss about
47:43
Speaker 2: this into Fara event. She says, in recent weeks we
47:46
Speaker 2: have seen a persistent media campaign by the Murdoch press
47:49
Speaker 2: against this event. Well, yes, and congratulations to Ben English
47:54
Speaker 2: and the Daily Telegraph for causing such a fuss and
47:56
Speaker 2: getting Clover Moore to issue this statement backing down on
47:59
Speaker 2: the event.
48:00
Speaker 3: All right now, joining me.
48:02
Speaker 2: Now is leading economist Chris Richardson, and Chris, good to
48:06
Speaker 2: see you.
48:07
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for your time.
48:09
Speaker 2: Look, Albani, the Prime Minister and the Treasurer do appear
48:13
Speaker 2: to be confirming that there will.
48:15
Speaker 3: Be changes to negative gearing.
48:18
Speaker 2: But in a climate where rates a rising, wouldn't property
48:20
Speaker 2: investors pass on the tax pay of negative gearing changes
48:24
Speaker 2: to renters and thus it would harm those younger people renting.
48:30
Speaker 16: Well, it depends on how big that change to negative
48:33
Speaker 16: gearing is. If it is more symbolic than anything else,
48:38
Speaker 16: than any impact on rents would also only be symbolic.
48:42
Speaker 16: I would suspect the main change will be around the
48:46
Speaker 16: treatment of capital gains. The shift, if you're like, away
48:50
Speaker 16: from what we've been doing the last quarter of a
48:53
Speaker 16: century back to what we were doing before that the
48:57
Speaker 16: fifty percent discount becomes basically allowing for inflation. What is
49:04
Speaker 16: less clear is what gets done on negative gearing. But
49:07
Speaker 16: to be fair, the dollars in the capital gains text
49:10
Speaker 16: discount are much bigger than the dollars in negative gearing.
49:14
Speaker 2: We've seen big business on the front page of the
49:16
Speaker 2: papers today demanding spending caps. What are your thoughts on
49:20
Speaker 2: this proposal.
49:22
Speaker 16: Australia definitely needs better rules around its budget, and I
49:26
Speaker 16: think a spending cap is a good idea. We have
49:31
Speaker 16: made mistakes, and to be clear, that's happened across administrations
49:35
Speaker 16: from both sides, and for a long period of time.
49:38
Speaker 16: We've messed up a bunch of things in our spending.
49:40
Speaker 16: We've messed up a bunch of things in our taxing.
49:43
Speaker 16: The government, to its credit, is now doing something more
49:46
Speaker 16: serious around the NDIA. So I'd love to see them
49:49
Speaker 16: take on things like that wagst deal or have a
49:53
Speaker 16: closer look at how perhaps artificial intelligence can do work
49:59
Speaker 16: much more efficiently. There are big cost savings there the
50:02
Speaker 16: private sectors graving them. Why isn't the public sector perhaps
50:06
Speaker 16: moving faster on that front as well.
50:10
Speaker 2: How much does the Abanese government, in your view, to
50:13
Speaker 2: tackle inflation need to cut down on spading in this budget.
50:17
Speaker 16: Well, they don't need to do a lot. You simply
50:21
Speaker 16: need to make sure you don't make the juggle of
50:24
Speaker 16: the Reserve bank any harder. You know, we face a
50:27
Speaker 16: very similar situation today to what we face back in
50:29
Speaker 16: twenty twenty two. You know, there was inflation then, there's
50:33
Speaker 16: inflation now. Then there was a war in that case,
50:35
Speaker 16: when Russia invaded Ukraine and energy prices went up. Well
50:39
Speaker 16: again we've got energy prices going up. The mistake is
50:43
Speaker 16: if the government of the day then hands too much
50:46
Speaker 16: money back to the punters, you know, because the challenge
50:51
Speaker 16: of inflation is simply too much money chasing too little stuff.
50:54
Speaker 16: So the answer isn't to give us.
50:56
Speaker 2: More money, which is obviously what they're inclined to want
51:00
Speaker 2: to do for political reasons in a cost of living crisis.
51:04
Speaker 2: Chris richards An, apologies are so short tonight, but thank
51:06
Speaker 2: you very much for joining us. I appreciate it and
51:09
Speaker 2: that's all we've got time for tonight. I'll see you
51:11
Speaker 2: tomorrow at eight o'clock more coverage from the Royal Commission.
51:13
Speaker 3: And right now he's Paul Murray.