Latest / Host Planet: Airbnb, Holiday Let, and Vacation Rental Insights / Why Some UK Holiday Cabins Only Last 5 Years – with Architect Peter Markos

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Why Some UK Holiday Cabins Only Last 5 Years – with Architect Peter Markos · Host Planet: Airbnb, Holiday Let, and Vacation Rental Insights

• 0:00
  In the UK there seems to be a bit for fixation on building the
• 0:05
  cheapest thing possible, and this is a real problem.
• 0:09
  From a business. Perspective land owners of
• 0:12
  purchasing cabins and they have a lifespan of five to 10 years.
• 0:17
  They're only really getting a return on that period.
• 0:19
  Cabins, pods, lodges, they're everywhere these days, across
• 0:23
  clamping sites, holiday parks, rural estates, farms and short
• 0:27
  term rental developments. They look great on Instagram,
• 0:30
  they sell incredibly well. But here's the uncomfortable
• 0:33
  truth. A lot of them are not built to
• 0:36
  last. Some units being sold in the UK
• 0:38
  today have a realistic lifespan of just five years, and many
• 0:42
  land owners don't really that until it's far too late.
• 0:46
  Today's guest believes this is one of the biggest hidden risks
• 0:50
  in the short term rental space. Peter Marcos is an architect who
• 0:54
  specializes in cabins, pods and small scale accommodation, and
• 0:58
  he's seen first hand the financial consequences of
• 1:01
  choosing the wrong bill. This is the House Planet podcast
• 1:05
  powered by Housefully. Peter, thank you for joining us
• 1:13
  on the House Planet podcast. I want to start with a bold
• 1:16
  statement because I think this will resonate with a lot of
• 1:19
  people listening. And many cabins and pods sold in
• 1:23
  the UK are not built to last. Tell us more from your
• 1:27
  viewpoint. Yeah, well, firstly.
• 1:30
  Thanks for having me, James. So.
• 1:33
  Yeah, I'd completely. Agree with that statement and it
• 1:36
  does seem to be particularly compared to European, maybe
• 1:41
  American neighbors, a problem in the UK so.
• 1:45
  A lot of. Scandinavian companies, even a
• 1:50
  lot of American companies, they build cabins with a view that
• 1:56
  they last a lifetime and beyond. In the UK there seems to be a
• 2:02
  bit of a fixation on building the cheapest thing possible.
• 2:08
  I would say obviously. Not all the time.
• 2:11
  Talking in general terms and this is a real problem.
• 2:15
  From a business. Perspective because when you're
• 2:18
  when developers, property developers, land owners are
• 2:25
  purchasing and building cabins and they have a lifespan of five
• 2:29
  to 10 years, they're only really getting a return on that period.
• 2:34
  In reality, the best value you can get from a holiday lab
• 2:40
  business is when you come to sell the business and that could
• 2:44
  be after 20-30 years time and. If you've got a product.
• 2:51
  Which is heavily depreciated, started to leak, the materials
• 2:57
  have just lost, their qualities have damaged, etcetera.
• 3:01
  Then the sale value of the business is just totally
• 3:07
  depreciated and and disappeared. So yeah, I completely agree with
• 3:11
  that statement. Why are some of these units only
• 3:15
  lasting five years? What are we getting so wrong in
• 3:19
  this country? Yeah.
• 3:21
  So I think I think one of the reasons might be that there's
• 3:30
  holiday let's are especially cabins pods.
• 3:33
  It's it's not like. Residential or buy to let where?
• 3:40
  There's pretty. Much A guarantee that it will do
• 3:44
  well, or a guarantee on income. Or at least that's assumed by
• 3:49
  most people. That's actually not always the
• 3:51
  case. I think a lot of developers and
• 3:56
  land. Owners want to de risk the
• 3:59
  project as much as possible and they think how can we cover the
• 4:03
  cost of this in one or two years time like I.
• 4:07
  Said I think the. This is really a big problem if.
• 4:11
  I'm honest, it actually took me. Some time to realise that,
• 4:14
  because. I remember.
• 4:16
  Speaking to my accountant and I said to him because I've got my
• 4:22
  holiday let business as well and I said to him I'm making a
• 4:27
  return from this but not as high as I'd like etcetera.
• 4:30
  And he said actually the real value of your holiday LED
• 4:34
  business is when you come to sell it.
• 4:36
  And I that was something I hadn't.
• 4:38
  Actually thought about I have happened to have built something
• 4:42
  which was built to last and built with a high material
• 4:46
  specification. That was actually.
• 4:48
  Much more because I'm an architect and I care about
• 4:54
  designing and building things well.
• 4:56
  And I wanted that to be because it was like the first project I
• 5:00
  did. I wanted that to be a key part
• 5:02
  of My Portfolio for winning work moving forward.
• 5:06
  So. It was something I almost.
• 5:08
  Intuited in that sense, but yeah, it became very important.
• 5:14
  I'm not entirely. Sure.
• 5:16
  Why Scandinavian countries, let's say, value this more?
• 5:21
  I think. Partly it's a lifestyle thing.
• 5:24
  A lot of, A lot of. Scandinavian developers, they
• 5:29
  don't just use the holiday let's for for commercial reasons, they
• 5:33
  might use it for personal use. And for that reason they're
• 5:37
  prepared to invest more. I mean, there's somebody I know
• 5:40
  quite well, he's based in the Netherlands and their cabin sell
• 5:45
  for 450,000 EUR and that's actually their starting price.
• 5:50
  So you can see there's a a big discrepancy there with how we
• 5:56
  approach it in the UK. Is it a design issue?
• 6:01
  Is it? Is it the materials that are
• 6:03
  being used? Yeah, it's good question.
• 6:06
  I think it's a bit of both. So a recent conversation I had
• 6:12
  with some people there saying that they were, they'd been
• 6:15
  staying in a cabin. I can't actually, I can't
• 6:16
  remember who it was, but they said they'd been staying in a
• 6:19
  cabin and they kept on banging their head on the ceiling
• 6:21
  because the floor to ceiling height is too low.
• 6:25
  So again, that's that's clearly something that's been value
• 6:28
  engineered because if you could reduce the height by 1020%,
• 6:33
  you're reducing the costs by 1020%.
• 6:39
  So, so things have been value engineered so that a lot of you.
• 6:45
  See, a lot of units are incredibly small.
• 6:49
  There's. Lots.
• 6:50
  To be said for intimacy in small spaces, and that's certainly
• 6:53
  welcome. But there's a.
• 6:55
  Lot of units which are just uncomfortably small in that
• 6:59
  sense. And then on top of that, like
• 7:01
  you're saying? There is a material quality
• 7:03
  issue. As I'm sure lots of people know,
• 7:07
  material prices have gone up. A lot in recent years, a lot of
• 7:12
  timber, a lot of timber you'd use in these types of projects
• 7:17
  are typically purchased from the likes of Ukraine and Russia.
• 7:20
  So 90% of ply of Birch plywood used to come from Russia.
• 7:26
  So obviously things like the war has put the cost of those
• 7:30
  materials. Well, up so.
• 7:34
  That's added to the issue and then as a result, developers,
• 7:40
  land owners feel a push to purchase cheaper materials,
• 7:46
  which have a lifespan of about 5 to 10 years or so.
• 7:51
  If you met with people or chatted to people who have been
• 7:54
  stung by this and perhaps thought that their pods or the
• 7:58
  units that they're developing, they're going to last a lot
• 8:00
  longer. And I'm wondering also if
• 8:02
  there's a, a maintenance issue here as well where people get
• 8:06
  these pods or whatever they might be and maybe don't
• 8:09
  maintain them probably. And, and they just end up
• 8:11
  fizzling out and, and becoming a, a bit of a burden.
• 8:15
  And and then people like you say they can't really sell them.
• 8:18
  Yeah, I mean one person who comes to mind.
• 8:21
  He in his. Situation he had He was in a.
• 8:26
  He was in a. Very good location because it
• 8:28
  was next to Harry Potter world and there after about a couple
• 8:34
  of years even their units were falling to pieces and.
• 8:40
  His way, he was quite business. Savvy etcetera.
• 8:43
  But his way of justifying it or thinking of it was he thought,
• 8:47
  Oh well, the area has such a high demand anyway.
• 8:53
  He was a Carpenter himself as well.
• 8:54
  So he just thought, well, I can, I can just build another one
• 8:58
  cheaply again. I.
• 9:01
  Think for a lot of consumers for a.
• 9:04
  Lot of customers. That's just.
• 9:06
  Not the case and I I have to met and seen people who've been
• 9:09
  stung by it in located in areas where they're the demand is not
• 9:16
  so high so they can't get away with having these units which
• 9:21
  fall to pieces so easily. But unfortunately there there
• 9:26
  actually seems almost like an. Acceptance in the market that
• 9:30
  that they they just don't last. I mean, I was, I was reading.
• 9:37
  An advert for I can't remember the company but I was reading a
• 9:40
  company advert and they had a a a cheap cabin and they were.
• 9:46
  Well, I said it was cheap. It was actually quite a high.
• 9:48
  Asking price and then they said the lifespan was between 10 to
• 9:51
  20 years. I just thought why would?
• 9:54
  Why would any? You know we wouldn't buy a.
• 9:56
  House. With that expectation of a
• 9:58
  lifespan of 10 to 20 years, my my house is like 80 years old
• 10:03
  and, and that's really just not uncommon in the UK.
• 10:07
  So yeah, there's a lot of the market has just come to.
• 10:11
  Expect that and come to accept it in that sense.
• 10:15
  And for us? As a business, that's actually a
• 10:17
  bit of a challenge because there is a bit of let's say, education
• 10:22
  that needs to be done to say, well, actually if you want to
• 10:27
  let's say separate a part of your land in a few years time,
• 10:31
  20-30 years time, or for your kids and to give them this
• 10:37
  portion of the land with the cabin so that they could sell
• 10:41
  it. As a business, it is much more
• 10:44
  advantageous to, yes, admittedly spend a little bit more, but to
• 10:49
  build something which does last and becomes in that sense, a
• 10:54
  credible, sellable business. Quick pause before we continue.
• 10:58
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• 11:01
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• 11:04
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  for life. All right, back to the show,
• 11:43
  Peter. What needs to change?
• 11:46
  I mean, I'm thinking here, do we need some kind of regulation for
• 11:49
  this kind of thing? Yeah, well, regulation.
• 11:53
  It's a very good question actually, so.
• 11:56
  Again, one of the problems is that a lot of.
• 12:01
  People I meet. And a lot of people who
• 12:03
  approached. Me as an architect as well, they
• 12:06
  say I'm thinking about doing this holiday left or this
• 12:09
  project, but I don't want to go through building regulations.
• 12:12
  I don't want to go through planning approval.
• 12:14
  So hopefully without stating the obvious, but.
• 12:19
  The purpose of building. Regulations is to regulate the
• 12:22
  quality of the bills and to make sure it complies with the the UK
• 12:28
  regulations in that sense and that specifies things like how
• 12:32
  materials are fixed. Types of fixing.
• 12:36
  Types of insulation. The thickness of the insulation
• 12:39
  about the floor to ceiling height we were talking about
• 12:42
  earlier, for example. But because there's because a
• 12:46
  lot of cabins fall under. What is known as the 1968
• 12:52
  Caravan Act, they don't necessarily need to comply with
• 12:57
  building regulations. So a lot of people say, well I'm
• 13:01
  not going to, it's just extra bureaucracy, it's extra costs,
• 13:05
  etcetera. I don't want to do that.
• 13:08
  I would recommend people do comply with building regulations
• 13:11
  because they're incredibly useful in that sense and they
• 13:17
  allow you to test the project and make sure that you're not
• 13:23
  going to end up with a project which, you know, let's say is a
• 13:29
  unit which is too cold in the winter and potentially too hot
• 13:33
  in the summer. Because James, I think actually
• 13:35
  that's. Something else I forgot to
• 13:37
  mention on this as well is as I've mentioned, I've actually
• 13:41
  got my own holiday that business.
• 13:43
  So we've got a rental cabin, but we're also moving into the
• 13:49
  market selling these cabins as well.
• 13:52
  With the rental. Business.
• 13:54
  What we have found. Is.
• 13:56
  A lot of our competitors. Locally, a lot of the local
• 14:00
  cabins they don't rent during the winter.
• 14:03
  The reason they don't rent during the winter is they've not
• 14:06
  been insulated properly or had the right sort of electrics put
• 14:11
  in. And that's a massive period to
• 14:14
  be missing out on potentially, potentially between I'd say four
• 14:18
  to six months. And we still we make obviously.
• 14:22
  We're not as busy as in summer, but we've.
• 14:25
  Still got a? Very high demand during winter
• 14:28
  months. So again, yes, there is a higher
• 14:33
  up front cost of going. Through the building
• 14:35
  regulations. But in return, what you get is
• 14:40
  not just something. Which sells better in 20?
• 14:43
  30 years time. But actually something that
• 14:46
  you're able to rent out throughout the year as well.
• 14:50
  That makes a lot of sense. Yeah.
• 14:51
  I'm just wondering, what does best practice look like?
• 14:53
  If a farmer came to you and said look I've got some land, I want
• 14:58
  to put a few glamping pods on it, what would your advice to
• 15:01
  them be about getting this right?
• 15:05
  Yes, it's a good question. So I mean, there's there are
• 15:09
  things to do with the design side.
• 15:11
  I'd advise to get right and then obviously the quality of the
• 15:15
  build will obviously focus on the quality of the build.
• 15:19
  I would say. You know, don't.
• 15:22
  Necessarily think more. Units is better, that's the
• 15:26
  first thing. So you could potentially start
• 15:29
  with three. Five it, obviously.
• 15:31
  Depends on the the developers how much money they want to
• 15:36
  allocate to this but. It's a lot of the fixation is
• 15:41
  how. Can I get the most units
• 15:43
  possible on the site? And for the reasons obviously
• 15:47
  already highlighted throughout this discussion, that's not
• 15:51
  necessarily the best strategy. And then on that as well the.
• 15:55
  There are other. Aspects of quality.
• 15:57
  For example, you might not want all of these cabins located next
• 16:01
  to each other because a lot of guests are off by that.
• 16:05
  They prefer a little bit privacy units which are separated.
• 16:12
  I would say as well certainly work with a company which.
• 16:19
  Has a focus on quality builds. See if they, if you can, if
• 16:26
  they've got examples of units which are 5 or 10 years old, and
• 16:29
  see how they're performing. A lot of that is doing.
• 16:33
  Research on the materials. I would also say natural
• 16:36
  materials are better. You see a lot of cheap
• 16:40
  composites. Talking specifically with timber
• 16:44
  cabins, it's also best to look out for hardwoods over soft
• 16:50
  woods. Soft woods, typically woods
• 16:53
  which are grown quite quickly, so they have a, they're not as
• 16:58
  dense, so they have a lot, a lot shorter lifespan.
• 17:02
  They're more susceptible to rot, etcetera.
• 17:06
  Hardwoods are much denser that have got a much longer lifespan.
• 17:11
  The good thing as well with a lot of these.
• 17:13
  Sorts of materials which are hardwoods, you know, think
• 17:16
  Cedars larch, etcetera is actually when done correctly,
• 17:24
  after a few years, the cabin will actually start to look
• 17:28
  better than it did when you first bought it because when you
• 17:31
  first bought it, it was first built.
• 17:34
  It might look somewhat similar to others on the market, but as
• 17:40
  it starts to age, I always compare it to a good pair of
• 17:43
  leather boots. Let's say it starts to temper,
• 17:46
  it starts to pick up the materials from The Woodlands
• 17:50
  around it, the grasses, et cetera, and it just ages far
• 17:54
  more gracefully into the surroundings.
• 17:57
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• 17:59
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• 18:03
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• 18:14
  screen if you're watching on YouTube or hit the link in the
• 18:17
  show notes to find out more. I'm not sure I should ask this
• 18:20
  to an architect, but I mean, do you think there's been too much
• 18:24
  focus on how these pods and and similar things look rather than
• 18:30
  the actual fundamental fundamentals of building
• 18:32
  something that's going to last? I'm not even sure there's that
• 18:38
  much focus on how they. Look per SE, I think.
• 18:43
  A lot of a lot of what we see on the market.
• 18:45
  Is let's say like an art shaped cabin and I've.
• 18:53
  I think the main. Issue is is that.
• 18:57
  Consumers. Purchasing them, don't know how
• 18:59
  to differentiate between them and the main differentiator they
• 19:03
  can see is the price. So if they see a unit for 40,000
• 19:09
  versus one for 60,070 thousand, they're going to be more tempted
• 19:15
  by the 40,000 LB unit 1 because that will have a higher ROI or
• 19:23
  at least in the short term. So I think that's that's the.
• 19:27
  Main focus I. Think a lot of designers are
• 19:33
  focusing on at. Least trying to make something
• 19:35
  look. Somewhat.
• 19:37
  Organic by giving it a bit of a curved shape, let's say.
• 19:42
  But yeah, I don't think anybody's solved by that.
• 19:45
  Like I said though, there are. You know, it's not just us doing
• 19:49
  this. There are Scandinavian
• 19:51
  companies, lots of American companies as well, who are
• 19:56
  actually have much more focus on quality and that is actually
• 20:00
  really good to see. Is there much you can do if,
• 20:05
  say, you've got a bunch of these pods, maybe you bought them ten
• 20:08
  years ago and they're falling apart.
• 20:11
  Is there much you can do to rectify the situation?
• 20:13
  What would your advice be to people who have found themselves
• 20:15
  in this situation and perhaps they thought these pods would
• 20:18
  last a lot longer but but they haven't?
• 20:21
  Yeah, it's, that's a really good question, I think.
• 20:24
  Yeah, you do obviously have to work with what you've got.
• 20:27
  I would start by saying work with a surveyor or a good
• 20:31
  architect who can tell you these are the things to rectify
• 20:36
  because ultimately you don't want to just be incurring, let's
• 20:41
  say unnecessary costs and you know, might need to be quite
• 20:46
  practical about about the situation.
• 20:50
  But yeah, I'd. Recommend working with a
• 20:53
  surveyor, an architect who can just pick up on some things
• 20:57
  which could be rectified and then that might keep you ticking
• 21:02
  along, let's say for another 10 years.
• 21:05
  In most cases it would. It is very difficult unless
• 21:09
  you're unless you really start from scratch, it's it would be
• 21:13
  very difficult to totally rectify the issue, to give it a
• 21:17
  lifespan of 50 to 100 years, potentially longer.
• 21:22
  I mean something I would. Say is.
• 21:26
  The we, we can, we can do this. I think a lot of, lot of people
• 21:32
  think that, oh, because it's a timber.
• 21:35
  Structure because of the weather in the UK, it's never going to
• 21:38
  last a long time. That's.
• 21:40
  Not true because you know if you go to Stratford upon Avon pubs
• 21:45
  across the UK there are plenty of examples of timber framed
• 21:51
  pubs which are 5. 106 hundred years old, I think.
• 21:55
  There's some even older as well, so it's totally within our skill
• 22:00
  set as architects, as contractors to do this.
• 22:06
  What's the future of cabins look like in the UK?
• 22:10
  And if you could wave a magic wand, where would you like to
• 22:13
  see the industry go in the next few years?
• 22:15
  So I actually do think the. Future is looking bright.
• 22:20
  I think the future will be a focus on quality.
• 22:24
  The reason? I think.
• 22:25
  That is. Particularly during COVID, there
• 22:30
  was a big. Rush from land owners, from
• 22:33
  farmers to get, let's say, a cheap shepherd top on their land
• 22:38
  because the demand was so high because we weren't able to
• 22:42
  travel outside the UK. On top of that, people had more
• 22:46
  savings and more disposable income, so there was such a high
• 22:52
  demand. I think that.
• 22:54
  Demand has started to step back a little bit and now it.
• 23:00
  Becomes a lot. About the differentiating
• 23:03
  factor, you know, is the cab, does the cabin look unique, Is
• 23:07
  it uniquely located? Does it look interesting?
• 23:13
  Is it a place you'd want to stay?
• 23:16
  That obviously increases the demand, so I think.
• 23:21
  As developers get. Smarter and get wiser to this
• 23:25
  they're going to see that there needs to be some form of a
• 23:29
  differentiating factor there needs to be more of a focus on
• 23:33
  quality because. Ultimately, if you're if you're
• 23:36
  a consumer. If you're looking to book a
• 23:39
  holiday let and if you're between, you know, a cheap
• 23:43
  shepherd's up with no insulation, you know, poor
• 23:48
  internal linings versus something which has clearly been
• 23:54
  built with quality in mind. It looks warm, it's well
• 23:57
  insulated. You're going to go for the
• 23:58
  latter. Even if it is 2030% more
• 24:02
  expensive, you're still going to be tempted by that I.
• 24:05
  Would say yeah, I would. Just catalyze that.
• 24:07
  I just hope that that happens, that happens.
• 24:10
  Quicker, but like I said, I think it.
• 24:12
  Is. I don't know what your thoughts
• 24:15
  are on the matter. Actually, you're the expert,
• 24:18
  Peter. Before you go then in relation
• 24:23
  to your business, just tell us about how you help short term
• 24:27
  rental investors and where people can find you.
• 24:29
  Yeah, great. So at the moment the best place
• 24:32
  to find me would actually be through my architecture
• 24:35
  business, which is. Marcos design workshop.
• 24:38
  So we do. Support Holiday.
• 24:41
  Land owners with all all sorts of projects really, from
• 24:46
  residential to Greenbelt developments over the.
• 24:52
  Next few months. We, the cabin business, which
• 24:56
  I've referred to, we're actually launching a a business to go to
• 25:02
  market to start selling these cabins as one off bespoke
• 25:06
  products. And we'll gradually start moving
• 25:09
  as well into taking more bespoke orders from that.
• 25:13
  So, yeah, but for now, the best place to visit me is Mark Cost
• 25:16
  Design Workshop. Fantastic.
• 25:20
  We'll put all those links in the show notes.
• 25:22
  Peter, it's been a real pleasure.
• 25:23
  Thanks for joining us on the Host Planet podcast.
• 25:26
  Yeah, thanks James. Really, really enjoyed the chat.
• 25:29
  All right, over to you. If you're watching on YouTube,
• 25:32
  drop a comment and tell us. Are you considering cabins or
• 25:36
  pods or do you already own one? What's been your experience so
• 25:41
  far? Let's share lessons, good and
• 25:44
  bad. If you found this episode
• 25:46
  useful, hit like subscribe and follow wherever you're watching
• 25:51
  or listening. Also share it with another host
• 25:53
  or property manager who needs to see it.
• 25:56
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• 26:00
  and if there's a topic you'd like us to cover or a guest you
• 26:03
  think we should speak to, leave a comment or e-mail us at info
• 26:07
  at houseplanner dot club. Huge thanks to our sponsors at
• 26:10
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• 26:13
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• 26:18
  guidebooks for live. Full details and the demo link
• 26:21
  with Frank Bosey are in the show notes.
• 26:24
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• 26:28
  Until next time.