Latest / Before You Speak / Before You Speak | Episode 22 | Iran and The Political Struggles of the American Jew

Transcript

Before You Speak | Episode 22 | Iran and The Political Struggles of the American Jew · Before You Speak

• Derek Peterson: What's up y'all? Welcome back to the Before You Speak podcast. I am your host, Derek Peterson, just drinking from the fire hose of my newsfeed every day with this guy over here. I'm guessing that's it this time. Elwyn: What's up everybody, I am Elwin. of my news feed is just cooking, but thankfully it was born in the United States and is therefore a citizen without any question. So on we go. Derek Peterson: That's a fair point. The firehose of my newsfeed is also born in the USA, I think. I might have to have him present documents to prove it, but we'll see. ⁓ I mean, honestly, I wouldn't mind deporting my newsfeed at times either. ⁓ Elwyn: Yeah. A manufacturer certificate for the fire hose. Derek Peterson: Yes. So let's jump into the news. We want to talk about the Iran war for a second. Elwyn: Yeah, just kind of something, I was listening to some daily news podcasts yesterday and Trump is now saying basically, hey, other, rest of the world, if you want the oil that's not getting through the Strait of Hormuz, go get it yourself. We have enough oil, you can buy it from us or you can go get it yourself and the rest of the world is kind of sitting there like, wait, go fuck yourself. you started this thing and now you're telling us that we have to clean up the mess you made and besides just showing that he had no idea what he was doing going into this and even if he did let's take that out of it for a second and say let's say he did let's say the same reports that everybody has given prior presidents were given to him and he was just like you know what no one's ever tried this before Everything that's happening just shows why going to war with Iran was a bad idea and probably why every previous president didn't do it. Because this is exactly what was always going to happen. So I had this crazy thought, this is like not America first. like what if the outcome for this went something like. The rest of the world, listening to Donald Trump scream at them to go clean up his mess, gets together and says, okay, we really need the oil. The oil that's not getting out is existential for countries like Pakistan. ⁓ India is barely getting enough. There's countries in natural gas, they blew up the big natural gas field in Qatar, so countries that rely on natural gas also fucked. We're feeling it at the pump. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: other countries are feeling it in a much, much, much deeper way. So what if the rest of the world gets together and says, OK, well, we're going to make a deal with China and Iran to buy their oil, and we're going to do this ourselves. And when American ships roll in, we're going to send ships there. And when American ships turn in, we're just turning on American ships. We, Great Britain, we UK can't take out the United States and we don't want to, none of them want to. But if it's like the entirety of NATO, which Trump is three quarters of way out the door on anyway, backed by Russia, backed by China, all saying, you know what, we don't want to buy oil from Iran, we'd rather do it the way it was done for 47 years because while imperfect, that worked. And now this guy's decided, you know what, I'm gonna blow everything up, I'm gonna create a big giant vacuum and you guys figure out how to fill it. How long? Honestly, before somebody's like, are we reliant on the United States at all? What if the answer to this is to ⁓ kick out, is to isolate the United States and say, we're buying, Iran is making more money on oil now than they ever have. They were shipping something like 15 million barrels a day at you know, discounted rate because of sanctions of like $40 or $50 a barrel. Now they're shipping out like 25 million barrels a day at $100 a barrel. They're rolling in oil money right now as a result of this. So, yeah, what's to stop the rest of the world from just being like, you know what? Cool, we're just going to completely zag. We're going to band together. We're going to make our own deal with Iran, our own deal with China, and our own deal with Russia. Derek Peterson: Yep. Elwyn: the United States, you can go fuck off because you've proven yourself to be a completely unworthy partner in the last really 10 years. And screw you. You got enough oil? Great. Derek Peterson: Dude, that is not, I think, that far out of the realm of crazy because from the majority of the things I'm reading, almost everybody outside of the US is pissed off about this, significantly pissed off. I saw a video of, and I don't know, this is part of this podcast, right? Digesting the firehose of our news feeds and my my news feed showed me a video of some Indian guys fighting for gasoline and in India ⁓ and Pakistan I saw two two different videos and then I saw some stuff in Australia that had to do with like grocery stores and Like food not being stocked different things that are like this Iran war is impacting the world in ways that are far different than what ⁓ the US expected, you know and Yeah, it's going to piss a lot of people off and make everybody rethink their relationship with us, which has already been happening. Like the tariff stuff at the earlier this year was the first thing that started to like recalculate the world's trade partnerships. And almost every economist I listened to was talking about how like the ultimate winner of all this is China, because like a lot of countries are now opening the sanctions that they had on China to open up trade because the US is being so difficult to deal with. And so the result of that is that, the things that the, man, we could be headed towards a really dark place economically soon. And it's pretty scary for me to think about. Elwyn: Yeah, don't like the most alarmist version that I hear from sane people of this is that like this is empire ending for us. And it's like, I don't know if I'm there yet, but I can see it a little bit because the whole thing, know, Mark Carney, the president, prime minister, whatever they have in Canada, he gave that speech at Davos where he was like, well, you know, now we used to operate under this kind of fiction. Derek Peterson: Yeah, I don't know if I'm there yet. Elwyn: that we all bought into, that things were fair, and now Trump is just like, nah, fuck it, I don't care about any of that. So the rest of the world, yeah, they're reacting and they're going, well, we can't rely on the United States, and it's not just Trump, right? Because we've elected him twice. So we, the citizens of the United States, have proven more than willing to elect someone like Trump twice. So how can the rest of the world look at this? It's decades before the rest of the world begins to see, would need to see sanity from us before they start to rebuild trust. Derek Peterson: Yeah, like. ⁓ which you're a thousand percent correct on. I'm curious what your thoughts on, because I was listening to a couple of people talk about this, ⁓ the other day is how much of this do you think was actually, ⁓ how much of this do you think was actually designed and orchestrated by Trump? And do you, because my, my instinct tells me that the intelligence that he was getting was not super great. I think that what was happening, and I've heard a couple of people talk about this thus far, and I think this is the kind of where I've landed is that, after what happened with Maduro in Venezuela and how easy that was, there was this, I think peak head, Hegseth and a lot of the cronies around Trump were basically like, man, we can go in, do what we need to do. show all of this force drop, you know, a hundred missile or a thousand missiles in a day or every day for a few days just to show this strength. And then we end everything all at one time, right? We make them beg for mercy completely like disregarding the fact that Iran is a completely different monster than, ⁓ than any other country to be quite frank. And furthermore, I think they were expecting this at some point and it had made preparations for it. And so in that instance, I'm kind of curious what your take is, is do you think this was actually orchestrated and thought through by Trump or do you think this was just bad intelligence from around it? Elwyn: ⁓ I don't think it was thought through. I think it was bad advice, not bad intelligence. Because I think everybody's like, the MAGA crowd is like, he's ending a war that started 47 years ago. No other president had the guts to do what he's doing. So, okay, it's a pretty ⁓ dumb take. Derek Peterson: dumbest take of all. It's the yeah you can no it's a dumb take because we killed the Ayatollah only to reinstate a 30 year younger Ayatollah who has now lost his entire family because of us. Dumb take. Elwyn: Yeah, the leader of the parliament in Iran ⁓ six weeks ago is the same guy as the leader of the parliament in Iran today. And that's the new, more reasonable regime that Trump is talking about. It's the same guy, but it's also like, why I don't think the intelligence was bad, I just think he made a stupid choice is I do think there's a reason why nobody went in for 47 years. Because I think they saw exactly this. I think they saw that Iran doesn't have to have a stronger military than us. They don't have to make us surrender. They don't have to lob missiles at continental United States. They don't have to do much of anything. They can hit a couple of planes. They can hit a couple of interceptor sites. They can also close the Strait of Hormuz. that's, I think, and other risks of the Houthis coming in. But I think that every other president got intelligence about this. And they were like, you know what? the status quo while imperfect and yeah, it flames up every now and then like a hemorrhoid is better than fucking colon cancer, which is what I'm gonna create if I do this. ⁓ So I think he probably got all that same intelligence. He just made and was pushed to make the different decision by guys like sure, I think Hegseth wants to blow shit up. Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: Christian nationalists take over the world view is like deeply disturbing and I think that's going on. And I agree with you, I think the biggest mistake Trump made was once the Ayatollah was killed and everybody was killed that first weekend, he should have just been like, you know what? Iranian people, we got those guys out. Go take your country back. We did what you need us to do. Go take your country back. know, we blew up this girls' school. That's why we don't want to harm any more innocent Iranian civilians. We did this thing, go do it. And then he can say, I got Maduro out. I got the Ayatollah out and all his top leaders. And then he's like, it's hard for a Trump hater like me to really win an argument that those are not good things. Derek Peterson: Yeah, you're not wrong on that. There's so many things about this though that I struggle with. There are a couple of things. Like one, so Iran is approximately the size of Texas, correct? Like in actual size. And the, when you actually think about that, like dude, it takes a, when you, when I was driving to Texas from California, half of that trip is through Texas. So you're, it is gigantic. And the ability to actually scan that amount of space and know where they're building all of their military operations when I'm confident that they are trying to hide them, they have a lot of space to hide them in. So there's so much there that I'm just like, man, there's no way. then furthermore, we're dropping million dollar bombs on them and their bombs to make, the drones that they equip that explode cost them what, less than 20 grand I think, because they run on an engine that's like the same as like a small airplane. it's completely, all of these people that are like, man, we're playing chess and everybody else is playing checkers. like, man, I don't think that's, I don't think so. And furthermore, Elwyn: I don't think so. Derek Peterson: We're starting to look like Goliath in this story. we are, we are, yeah, we are, we are living a country in a time where everybody thinks that we are the almighty, the powerful America does everything right. And that is the, the there's the, it's okay to love your country and also admit that it's not perfect and recognize the need for diplomacy and, ⁓ and Elwyn: Yeah, it's like Vietnam. Derek Peterson: you know, trade, open trade, caring for other people. Like, but as soon as you go down the path of like, I'm right, my way is right, we're doing this my way at all costs, this is the downfall of society. And this, that's the part of your argument from earlier that I'm like, yeah, dude, I don't know that you're wrong because we see half of the country apparently feels this way, which is insane to me is half of the country is just like, we're the biggest, strongest, most powerful country in the world. We should do whatever we want and take whatever we want. And I'm like, man, have you all not read a book? Because every book ends with that person losing. Elwyn: Yeah, yeah, read one called The History of the 20th Century. And the other thing that happens that I don't think people just acknowledge in life enough is when you disrupt the status quo, you are introducing unknowns into what was previously known. And in this case, in international relations, right, like, Derek Peterson: Yes. Elwyn: You don't know what the Iranians are going to do. You don't know if they're going to be happy that we're doing this or unhappy that we're doing this. You don't know what they want. Like, you don't know what the rest of the world is going to do. You're introducing an incredible amount of uncertainty into the world. And that uncertainty is going to be filled with stuff that you probably don't like. Because if you liked it, you probably would have done it earlier. You know, so it's not that the status quo with Iran for 47 years was great. I know they blew up the USS Cole. I know they had proxies in Lebanon and in Yemen. I know that that's not great. But I would go back to eight weeks ago. I would take that over whatever this is now and, you know, whatever is going to come. mean, gas has gone up to almost $4 a gallon here in Texas. It's gone up $1.50 in three weeks. You know, that's... That's a lot. That's incredible. Derek Peterson: That's a lot a lot. And that's enough to make ⁓ a lot of people start to very much worry about the future of things. And furthermore, too, like the the worst part about all of this is that it like if we're talking about like hands down, what if you ask every parent what they want in life, it's usually they want a better world for their kids. Right. Like we want to we want to progress things in a way that makes the generationally better for everybody. And this is so far from that. The only people benefiting from anything that's happening right now are the people directly around Trump that are trading stocks and using the market manipulation to make themselves incredibly wealthy. While the rest of us are out here grinding every day. I was thinking about how busy I am right now with work and you know how deals can fall apart so easily and all of the work that I'm spending. day after day, I've been working 12 to 14 hour days the last week. And I'm like, man, like in a moment's notice, a few of these deals could fall through, knock on wood, hopefully they don't. you know, like, and then there's these, these assholes that are like getting a word from Trump, throwing, you know, 100, hundreds of thousands of dollars into a, you know, at a stock and then turning around and making a couple million on it. And I'm like, yeah. That's enough for me to fucking retire. you know, go screw yourself. Like, the rest of us are out here working our tails off and y'all are just like manipulating the markets like you own the place. I mean, this doesn't end well for A, I don't think it ends well ultimately for them and B, I don't think it ends well for our children. I think we end up in a world that is not safer and we have a bunch of people that are pissed off that we killed their parents or their family members that end up spending their entire lives. instigating revenge, you know? Elwyn: Yeah, I don't, agree with you. Stoking the flames of a, you know, ⁓ a doomsday suicidal ideology like, you know, hardline jihadist ⁓ Iranians, like some of them follow, stoking those flames and creating a whole generation of people who are furious at us for ⁓ killing their parents, it's just not a good idea. Like, we're not, no, we're not more safe 20 years from now because we have no idea what the extent of the devastation is in Iran. ⁓ I imagine it's way worse than we think it is. Derek Peterson: Per usual. You know that because of that, what was that Fox News clip that is rolling around where the woman asks Trump about how he's, know, how he's, how are the Iranian people? We haven't heard anything from them. And his response is, you look better than you did 12 years ago. You know, I'm going to get my, yeah, I'm going to get myself, I'm going to get myself in trouble here and canceled because I tell you that you look. Elwyn: Yeah, yeah, you look good. Derek Peterson: you know, better than you did all that time ago. So it's, this doesn't end well for any of us. Easter for me is coming up and for you, I'll let you take over here. Elwyn: Yeah, so Passover starts tonight. you know, that's it. Derek Peterson: Passover is the, was Moses' time, correct? When he went through and they identified and put the blood, was it sheep's blood above the doors? Elwyn: Yeah, lamb or sheep, it's basically the story of the Exodus from Egypt. ⁓ You have the Pharaoh, the Ten Plagues, ⁓ the final one being the killing of the firstborn, and the parting of the Red Sea, all that good stuff. ⁓ So the Jews' Exodus from Egypt, which to the extent any of this is relevant to history, hey, maybe Jews have a historical connection to that land that goes back thousands of years. But anyway, I digress. Derek Peterson: Lams boy, yeah. Yes. Elwyn: ⁓ But no, it's not like, that's actually important because ⁓ there are links, like this is one of the more important Jewish holidays, probably the third most important, you could even argue second most important Jewish holiday on the calendar behind Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur. Not in that order, Yom Kippur would be the first one. And there are like absolute, inextricable ties to Christianity in Passover. There is a debate among historians that is pretty deep, but it's pretty widely believed that the Last Supper was in fact a Passover Seder. Jesus was a rabbi. He was a Jewish rabbi. The Holy Monday liturgy talks about Jesus saying to the Jews and talking about a fig tree. that hadn't grown figs, the conversation around Easter and Holy Week is the conversation of Jesus being a rabbi. That is part of that conversation. Passover just slides right in in that Last Supper. Of course you have the whole bullshit about the Jews killed Jesus. This is a time when these holidays these important holidays for each religion intersect. They're not always close to each other in timeline because it's a different calendar. The Jews will follow our holidays on our 13-month calendar. But I got to thinking about all of that. And we did that political homelessness of an American Jew episode. And some of the news this week, I thought it was just kind of interesting to revisit it and talk about sort of this narrowing circle in which I feel like an American Jew like me. And I know from articles that are coming out that I'm definitely not alone and from people that I've spoken to, you know, this is not like I'm not uncovering gold here. This is something that's being talked about more and more. But on the left, ⁓ the DNC, Democratic National Committee, has basically now said, kind of starting to disavow AIPAC institutionally. AIPAC is the Israeli lobbying group. And we've talked about them. And there's a lot to criticize with AIPAC, without a doubt. ⁓ And candidates are running away from AIPAC. And it's becoming this litmus test. Are you taking AIPAC money? Hey, you took AIPAC money. Cory Booker fell all over and answer about that. Gavin Newsom doesn't know what to do with that question. And it's OK. It's okay for a candidate to decide, I'm not going to take AIPAC money because I don't like what Israel is doing in the Middle East. What Israel is doing in the Middle East should be subject to withering criticism. I truly believe that. But for the institution of the Democratic Party to come in and say, this lobbying group is now out of favor with us, it's like... Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: We talked in our free speech episode, why are lobbying groups relevant? Why are they good and important? There's a lot of bad, but why are they good and important? They're good and important because it gives me as a Jew, if I wanted to donate to a pro-Israel group that has actual power in Washington, DC, I can give money to AIPAC. My $100 is not going to buy me a meeting with a senator. AIPAC's money will buy them a meeting with a senator. So if I'm in lockstep with what they say and I'm like, yeah, cool, I support everything that they do, then I can give money to them and my voice gets heard through that lobbying group as an intermediary. But the Democrats are like, they're just, they're starting to really tiptoe around something that the Republicans pretty much are saying outright. the Democrat side of this is this APAC thing. The Republican side of this is CPAC was last weekend. And of course we've got Nick Fuentes who hates the Jews, he's pretty open about it, like, shouldn't even be mad about that anymore, he's so open about it, it's just a known fact at this point. ⁓ Derek Peterson: He holds nothing back when he speaks. Elwyn: Right. there was talk at at CPAC, you know, they were they were referring to conservatives who to pro-Israel conservatives and they were talking about those people as being J-pilled, you know, like red-pilled or blue-pilled. Well, fucking Israel doesn't start with a J, okay? What the fuck does J-pilled mean in the context of supporting Israel? and were talking about those people as being J-pilled, you know, like red-pilled or blue-pilled. Well, fucking Israel doesn't start with a J, okay? What the fuck does J-pilled mean in the context of supporting Israel? ⁓ If Israel doesn't start with a J, it means you've been Jew-pilled, right? The issue is not Israel, the issue is Jews, right? If Israel doesn't start with a J, it means you've been Jew-pilled, right? The issue is not Israel, the issue is Jews, right? ⁓ And it's just this, ⁓ when you and I were talking about earlier, I framed it as like, in some malls, you donate money to charity pushing a quarter into like a big funnel, and it goes around and around the end, and it gets slower, ⁓ it gets lower and lower and closer to where they're gonna hold the money, and it goes faster and faster and faster. I just feel like, with the Democrats saying, no, we hate Israel, but never ever ever acknowledging what that means to a Jewish person in America who's a Democrat. And with the Republicans just being like, no, we just fucking, with an ever increasing group of Republicans, like the Fuentes group and the Candace Owens group, just being out there going like, no, we fucking hate Jews. That coin is getting closer and closer and closer to the bottom. And it's getting a little scary, right? Because it's not wrong, I don't think, for a Jewish person to look back at history and be like, yeah, well, we're always at the subject of every conspiracy theory, right? In the 1940s, the Jewish population has not yet recovered from the Holocaust. Before the Holocaust, there were like 17 million Jews in the world. Now there's like 14 million, okay? We still haven't recovered from that. So everyone's like, how does this happen? I'll fucking tell you how this happens. This happens where one side of the political aisle openly doesn't like Jews. And the other side of the political pile refuses to acknowledge what is important to a Jewish person when it comes to the state of Israel and pushes those Jews farther and farther away and gets more and more extreme in what they'll allow. in service of anti-Israel rhetoric and policies. That's how this happens. Because all it takes now is a Stephen Miller acolyte, or JD Vance acolyte, or Nick Fuentes acolyte, to be in real power and to say, we fucking hate the Jews, and for all the Democrats to be like, ⁓ no, wait, we don't hate the Jews, but it wouldn't be all of them, because there would be enough of them that are like, Derek Peterson: Yep. Elwyn: Oh, I thought we were hating on the Jews all this time. We were just using Israel as a proxy for it. We're not doing that? Well, I was. So like, yeah, I'm sorry this sucks for you Jewish people, but like, fuck off. know, it's not top of mind. So yeah, that's kind of like heady stuff. Derek Peterson: Well, dude, this has been my frustration. My biggest frustration right now with the left is exactly this. And we've talked about this at length is just that people's inability to actually like take the entire, like take the individual out of the entire situation or ⁓ disconnect the individual from every like. everything something that they might buy into or subscribe to ⁓ and actually see them as a person that's unique and can hold multiple views at the same time. you know, we use the sports analogy a couple weeks ago where, know, I was talking about like Penn State, like if you're a Penn State fan, huge Penn State football fan, you can hate Joe Paterno and Jerry Sandusky for, you know, allowing molestation and rape of young boys while simultaneously not you know giving up your love for the university as a whole and the fact that maybe you grew up near Penn State were a Penn State fan your whole life like and that is not the equivalent right but like when we're talking about like race driven issues and things that people are either born into or that they're you know they're in it because of the color of their skin or their heritage or whatever it is like just because they're identified as that doesn't mean that they actually subscribe to everything that's happening. And this is the very frustration, right? Is that because of what Israel's doing and how Netanyahu has orchestrated a lot of what's going on and what feels really genocidal to the Middle East, right? And if I'm being honest, it feels like they're playing Trump like a fiddle, which is, you know, just been their Israel has gotten the U S to join in on things that I don't think any other presidents president would have done. And I actually think that it's funny because like a Nick Fuentes video came up that was posted by a liberal in my newsfeed this morning. And the first half of it was him giving Joe Biden bona fides for not engaging Iran and doing exactly what you had talked about earlier, where he was able to look at this and be like, man, I'd rather have a hemorrhoid than cancer. And so we're going to keep out of this mess. And then immediately following that, you know, Nick Flint is dives into his hatred for the Jews, which is freaking terrible. And it's like, man, we like people can say things that are correct and also hate and people can love and also say things that are incorrect. Like there is like There is a world where all of this stuff is so nuanced and people just want to if your heart is driven towards hate, like that's what people are going to do. And I think the hardest part about where I see our world right now. And this was my own naivety growing up is just that man like I I remember growing up in Utah and seeing all of the Mormon kids around me and being not Mormon and going to a Southern Baptist Church kind of always being felt left at. feeling left out, but the actual teachings of the Bible were the one of the few things that I found solace in like the moment that Jesus is hanging on the cross a Jew looks out at everybody and is as he's scoping the land the landscape of the people that are killing him. He mumbles like father forgive that he prays father forgive them. They don't know what they're doing like that to me is the most. beautiful act of love that has that the world could ever see it is the antithesis of hate it is the very thing that pierces the thing that we're talking about the human nature to just pile on to whatever topic it is with no thought with no care and and chastise another human being because of what they look like where they grew up or their you know ⁓ ethnicity and This is the critical junction of it. And anybody that's calling themselves a Christian and spewing this kind of hatred is missing the entire, like if you believe in Jesus, you are missing the entire point of Jesus because the entire point of Christianity was exactly that. It was, and I don't think that it's, you know, whether you believe it or whether you believe it's a story, if it's a story, it's beautifully written as well that a Jewish man that was poor, but a rabbi. came to basically tear down the barriers of the Jews and the Gentiles of the time. So high born but low born but poor at the same time and also killed by his own people. Like the inner the the the story is a beautiful story and however you look at it whether you believe it is truth or a story. But the one thing that it preaches is love and acceptance and the entire point of it was this conversation you know like. Man, like, stop being threatened by other people's views and backgrounds when the entire point is to just love and accept and care. And this is the part of this whole conversation that is missing. And all the people that are claiming to be Christians and willing to drop bombs on just willingly, everyone else, like, yeah, this is not how, this is not what it was meant to be. Elwyn: Yeah, and I think that covers nicely the problem with the right. ⁓ The problem with the left is more like, what am I supposed to believe the values of ⁓ the Democratic Party are? They talk about having a big tent. talk about, and let's talk about this, I'll talk about this just purely in politics. creating policies and solutions that help all people, that uplift all people, that provide opportunities for all people, and that in order to do that, you need to understand the struggles of all people. You need to understand, you know, if there's two sides to the tracks in a city, what's going on on one side that prevents them from thriving, like the other side is thriving. To do that, you need to listen and be aware. You need to be woke, right? Like that's ultimately what woke is. it was morphed into a bad word, but to me all woke means is like, ⁓ I'm attentive to the struggles and the situation of other people where I know nothing about those struggles. I'm gonna listen and I'm gonna accept that what they're telling me is somewhat accurate and that I'm also gonna accept that I can't ever. understand it or experience those things the same way that they do because, you know, I'm not them. I'm not a person of color or I'm not a member of the LGBT community or, you know, I'm not Catholic. I'm not Baptist, right? But those folks are not Jewish. So to me, what the Democrats have done is really strayed from that, where, like, I get it. I get the Democrats are, you know, especially the progressives, are furious about what's happening in the Middle East. I'm not asking you not to be furious about what's happening in the Middle East. What I'm asking is that you understand that I'm not in the Middle East, an American Jew is not in the Middle East, I don't live in Israel. Now yeah, I believe that Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state, but I don't have to, that does not mean... that I think that they should be taking over settlements in the West Bank or taking over like a quarter of Lebanon like they're doing now, doesn't mean that I can't disagree deeply with what's going on there. Those two things can happen and there's a lot of nuance in there and I think the Democratic Party is straying farther and farther away from seeking to understand that nuance or at least at the bare minimum acknowledge that Jews in America Derek Peterson: Mm-hmm. Elwyn: who historically have been like 75 % vote Democrat, if not more. I think it went down to like 67 % last time, and that was a time when everybody was like, well, the Jews really broke with the Democrats. Still two out of three voted for Harris over Trump, right? And it sounds selfish in a way, but like, were Jews marching at Selma, there were Jews marching. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Elwyn: for George Floyd, have been Jews outside the Supreme Court for same-sex marriage, there's a strong social justice component to American Judaism that has always helped the other minority groups in the Democratic Party and that the Democratic Party seeks to stand for. And from October 8th on, the Democratic Party has sort of forgotten that in some way. and moved farther and farther away from sort of acknowledging, like, no, no, no, we should listen to these American Jews about Israel, and we should adjust our rhetoric and adjust our policy so that we can say, you know what, Richie Torres, you represented Chuck Schumer, who had no love for Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer, though, represents New York State, but very much so the Upper West Side of New York State. Of course he's going to be pro-Israel, right? That's democracy. That Chuck Schumer can be pro-Israel and Richie Torres can be pro-Israel. But that does not also mean that the Democratic Party has to say, well, democracy also includes our full-throated support of Graham Plattner and his kind of uncomfortable familiarity with Nazism. It's like, no, like, except you can... Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. Elwyn: vote Schumer out as speaker because you don't like his politics and because they don't reflect the whole of the Democratic Party. But man, it's really some fringe shit to not call out Platner and be like, bro, what the fuck is going on here with this stuff? And there are a lot of prominent voices on the left who are just ignoring it and hand waving it away. And when you hand wave that away, what you're telling me is that A guy having a Nazi symbol tattooed on his chest is not really that concerning to you. And you don't care to find out whether or not it's concerning to me. And then I feel isolated. And then I have thought processes like I'm having these days of like, I'm a member of local Democratic party. I'm like an hour away from sending an email that I don't want to be a member of that party anymore because I just don't think that they're listening to me as an American Jew. it's not a single issue, because I hate single issue voting. But it's too high up on the list to watch it get roundly ignored. For what? For political gain? What political gain are we getting if we just kind of hand wave away what history is 100 % clear about? There is no shade in history about how these things end up for Jewish people. None. Russia, Germany, you know, and forget about Jewish people. What did we do in the 40s, in 1944, with Japanese people? When we didn't, when we confused being Japanese-American with supporting Japan, we put them in internment camps in this country, and the Supreme Court said that was okay, right? We didn't welcome Jews from Europe in 1941. There were fucking silver shirt Nazi rallies that were filling Madison Square Garden. The history is locked in clear about this. And while the right just doesn't care, right? They like, cool, it's simple on the right. On the left, the more you ignore that history, and the more you ignore the people who are in your corner and saying, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, How exactly are you going to say that? Because I'm a little worried about how that message is going to get sent. cool, let's talk about a nuanced policy regarding Israel, but let's honor the experience and the needs of American democratic Jews at the same time. And that conversation is nowhere near the radar. I haven't heard any bit of it at all. And that is why I feel like we're getting closer and closer and closer to that hole at the bottom of the funnel. Derek Peterson: Yeah. Yeah. And I don't think you're wrong. Like, you know, I see it from an outsider's perspective as well. This conversation just constantly reminds me that there are, I mean, if you want to get break it down in its simplest form is it's really like you have two options. You operate out of your values or you operate out of insecurities. And the it's it's ironic to me that most of the Most of my friends that live the most Christian lives are atheists. My friends that are the most active, that are the most giving, the most caring, the most loving, the most accepting are the ones that don't subscribe to any religion in general. it's funny because we'll go out drinking every once in a while and we'll get into these deep philosophical debates where they think I'm trying to convert them to Christianity. And I'm telling them I'm not. I'm like, no, I'm like, you're you're not understanding what I'm saying. I'm saying I think we're already there. I think we're already aligned in our beliefs and values because I see how you live. Like you live more like Jesus. This is why I married my wife. Now I was married before to women to women that claim to be Christian that didn't live a Christian lifestyle at all. And then I meet a woman that's amazing that is proactive inner community helping other people. I care so much about the community of people the deaf community and the people that surround her and is constantly advocating for them and fighting for things that are important to her and things that are important to people that get overlooked constantly. That is these are the values that I hold and I truly believe that the people that are living that way like. whether you want to call it whatever kind of religion or Christianity or whatnot like I don't know that it actually matters and I think I'm further down this road than I've ever been before. There's a great book called The Great Divorce by C.S. Lewis that he talks about the split how he kind of views heaven and hell and I love this. It's one of my favorite books ever written but I believe that that trajectory starts actually relatively early in life and that you by the time you get to our age you can pretty clearly see what path people are on. Like you know like when you're in your 20s and 30s it's a little murky because people are still trying to figure out what values they have and by the time you get to our age man when you meet a 50 year old you're like man you have hated people for a very long time and it is it takes about 10 seconds in a conversation to figure out who you don't like and it yes correct you know and then you Elwyn: yeah i don't think i want to be friends with you Derek Peterson: And then the flip side of that is you meet somebody that is completely confident in their values of love and caring and are socially like one, they're probably never going to tell you the full extent of how much they give and care about other people because it's private and they do it because they it's who they are. ⁓ And two, they're always the most patient, kind and non-judgmental people. These are the people that you want to share with. These are the people that you want to talk to. These are the people you look to for mentor. mentorships because you're like man I know that I can go to this person they're not gonna judge me for my mistake or my fuck-up and they're gonna walk me down a path of how I can learn and grow from this and it's like man that these two trajectories are just like completely on another level and the political climate that we are in is just magnifying all of this like it this is putting all of our values like at the forefront of just about every goddamn conversation And it like, we used to be able to, feel like kind of skirt around certain things, but we can't anymore. It's like, yeah, like we could. Elwyn: But also, that's an interesting point, because I think you're right. I think that, and maybe this is where you're going, but I think that's part of the problem. Not every political conversation is a reflection of someone's values. If I believe that we should give more money towards mental health treatment for homeless people and support a trip back to being able to get a job by more public works programs, yeah, that's a reflection of my values, but that's not necessarily a values-based thing. We can have a fiscal conversation about it. We can talk about how much it costs per month to house someone in homeless shelter versus how much it costs a month to provide more stable housing and actual treatment programs. And I've done that. I've seen that math. in one of my prior jobs and it's surprising. So when everything becomes a reflection and either an affirmation or indictment of someone's values, now you have a problem because there's no room for conversation. Because it's like, wait, I support the right of the state of Israel to exist, therefore you're going to tell me to go fuck myself and say that I support killing babies and genocide? Like, whoa, no, no, no, no, I don't. Quite the opposite, right? Derek Peterson: No, but see, that's where I was going with this though. Exactly what you're saying is that the people that are so quick to make that indictment, that is the value that I'm talking about. The people that are so quick to jump in and make that accusation without actually doing recon to understand like, ⁓ I can be Jewish and want Israel to be the Jewish hub for the world and have it. having a complete right to exist while at the same time not supporting Netanyahu not supporting ⁓ what's going on in Gaza and Palestine and not supporting you know the future genocide of Iranians if it comes to that like like the those things can be held and like we can that's a humane conversation that's a that's a conversation of curiosity but if if I go straight at somebody and that like Elwyn: Yeah, and I think that... Derek Peterson: For example, my wife now, if we had met and my first response to her, which what it was when I was in my 20s was, ⁓ you're not a Christian? Yeah, like, sorry, I'm out. I'm actually like I'm just as bad as all of them. Like, whereas the flip side of that is, is my wife now lives more of a Christian life than 99 % of the Christians I know. And so, yeah, like whether she claims to be a Christian or not, like, the values of love and care and even curiosity are all there. you know, like if you just flip like the when people can just flip from having an impulse reaction to asking a fucking question and be like, ⁓ that's interesting. Why? Like there is a moment in a conversation where I'll peace out as soon as I recognize like, man, this is this person's full of hate and I want nothing to do with this. I'm out. The flip side of that is that, yeah, it takes a little bit more digging than just saying like, for example, like, ⁓ I'm a Democrat. ⁓ he's a Democrat, fuck that guy, I'm out. Like, no, that's completely wrong. Same with Republicans. ⁓ they're a Republican or hey, the worst one right now for me is, ⁓ they voted for Trump. I'm like, do you know how much it drives me nuts that people on the left can't understand how somebody could have voted for Trump? and be out now and not have enough grace to be like, man, I can see how you got duped or lied to or bought into this thinking he was gonna change your life because that's what he told you he was gonna do and then did the opposite of all of that. Because the funny thing is all the people that are casting stones at those people, my first question is how many times have you been married? How many times have you told somebody else that you were a different person than you actually are, you a-hole? But you know, there's just... Elwyn: Yeah, and I think what... Derek Peterson: very little self-awareness around all that. Elwyn: I think what bothers me on the politics of it is the, you know, the more, there's plenty of people on the left, ⁓ too many people on the left who go straight to, you support Israel, you're a genocidal maniac. ⁓ And there's no institutional pushback against that to say, wait a second, there's more to it, tell me more. And so those voices are growing louder and louder and louder. the more that we get ingrained in things like Iran. ⁓ And yeah, that's where, to go back to what I said earlier, when the rubber hits the road in the worst possible way, all you've done, all the Democratic doing party leadership and institutional ⁓ structure is doing right now is creating a vacuum for those voices to grow and gain more followers and gain more volume. And then... it becomes impossible to stop that train. All of sudden, to turn around in a year or two years or five years or whatever and say like, ⁓ no, no, no, wait, Democrats, we actually really care about our American Jewish brothers and sisters. It's too late. You weren't in it loud enough, early enough, trying to educate and... you know, talk about those democratic values and understand the values of an American Jew and yeah, this shit ends horribly for Jews and I'm not saying that I think that there's gonna be a Holocaust in my lifetime but I'd put the chance at non-zero and you know, which is shitty like 20 years ago I would have put the chance at zero now I put the chance at non-zero and Derek Peterson: Yeah, which is shitty. Yeah. Elwyn: You know, it's not going to come from the left, I don't think, but I think it's going to be accepted by the left. It's not going to be fought. And it makes me furious when I see like LGBT folks in the LGBT community who turn against Jews so quickly when we've been there fighting for you. It's like, look, man, again, I'm not asking you to support Netanyahu. I'm asking you to support me. I'm asking you to understand me. Okay? I don't know what it's like to fall in love with someone of the same sex. I can never know that. Right? I don't... So that doesn't mean, you know, so I need to ask. I need to understand. I need to try and... Derek Peterson: Yeah, and those people may never know what it's like to be a Jew that believes in Israel's right to exist while also doesn't support genocide in Gaza. those two things can exist simultaneously. look, I believe and this is probably more of a personal belief, but I genuinely think that we have a piece of heaven and perfection put in us. And I call it the Holy Spirit. think all the different religions probably have a different, you know, like whatever they would call their North Star guiding, guiding light, whatever, whatever it is. The Holy Spirit for me is what I've I since I subscribe to Christianity. But I think that very thing is the thing that makes that builds the angst that we have, because I don't know that we're meant to experience perfection in this life. And I think it's worthy. I think it's a worthy goal to try to get closer to a place of peace and harmony, which is what I actually believe heaven is. And I think we have a piece of that in us that allows us to know what's coming and there's a beauty in that, a striving for it. And then the flip side of it is that there are people that have squashed that so deep and want nothing to do with it and they choose the opposite. And I don't know that you will ever have a world that's rid of hate. ⁓ for other people because I Elwyn: I don't think we will, and that's not what I ask. know, like I think it's... Let's go ahead. Derek Peterson: But when we talk about our politics, like when we talk about our elected officials, when we talk about like the people leading our country, this is where it gets different because it's, yeah, we need to have people running our country that hold values of love, acceptance, care. That should be the litmus test at the start. And then everything else kind of falls into line after that. And that's where I would say I kind of sit on this and we're missing that mark. I think people's heart changed. mean there's a reason why. Dude, how many movies and stories have you read where somebody reaches across ⁓ the line of ethnicity or you know whatever to help somebody else that they know that their family for generations of hate, hated. know people that were a relationship, a multiracial relationship that started and because they fell in love and it's this beautiful story. It's a beautiful story because that's what love looks like. The ultimate acceptance of another human being for exactly who they are and just being okay with it. we, don't, humans just cannot wrap their heads around that. And. Elwyn: So Cory Booker in 2016 ran for president and his campaign, this is cynic in me, his campaign was that, was what you just said. This has to start with love for our neighbors and love for others. Lisa, so Lisa was like, I love this. This is the message. She still loves Cory Booker, right? Good, I generally think Cory Booker's a great guy. Derek Peterson: ⁓ God, dude, I'm never gonna repeat that again. Elwyn: You know, he's one of the good ones. know, he's imperfect, but one of the good ones. And I was like, no, this campaign is never going to work, right? I'm going to win because I'm campaigning on love for each other. I like, that's never going to work. And all it reminds me of is the scene in Gladiator when Joaquin Phoenix comes back from killing his father. And he's talking to the senators. And the senators are like, well, how are you going to fix the sewage in the Latin Quarter? And he just goes, I call it love. And instantly, they pan the camera pans and everyone's like, ⁓ God, we're fucked. And his sister's like, ⁓ God, we're fucked and pulls him out of there. But you're not wrong. You're not wrong. It's just a kind of funny thing that made where my brain went there for a second. Derek Peterson: Yeah ⁓ You ⁓ dude, I get it. Well, let's ⁓ we're getting we actually went a full almost a full hour today I went that's which means it's you know what time it is. time to tell somebody to shut the fuck up Elwyn: Yeah. No, I didn't plan to my shut the fuck up was going to be the Democratic Party. So I'll wrap it with just I'll wrap it with an anecdote just that pissed me off. Like shut the fuck up the following group of Facebook commenters where, you know, Israel won. I think they won a baseball game in the World Baseball Classic. And, you know, it's like the depressing way to end this. And ⁓ so they put up a social media post on Facebook and the fucking comment section. Derek Peterson: We can still tell them to shut the fuck up. Hahaha Elwyn: 3,000 plus comments. All of them were like, ⁓ have you been on the baseball field for 3,000 years? ⁓ did you kill any babies while winning this game? Like, it was just this just horrible, horrible comment section. it's like, you know, credit to my very religious gay friend Bill, who reposted it and was like, this shit is awful. You'd love this guy because he's dialed into exactly what you were saying. Derek Peterson: God, that's terrible. Elwyn: But it's like, man, if you can't see a social media post just celebrating a team doing something no one expected them to do and keep your fucking politics out of it and just scroll on, motherfucker. Just keep scrolling, okay? Because one, shutting the fuck up is an option there. And two, do you think for a second that that is going to make the people of Israel who see that be like, ⁓ yeah. I guess we should stand up against Netanyahu. I mean like, fuck those guys. I don't want to hear from them ever again. So just like, yeah, the baseball players from Israel are allowed to celebrate that moment without your stupid need to comment on shit on Facebook. So shut the fuck up, dumbass Facebook commenters, always and forever. Derek Peterson: Yes, that's a correct statement. And I'm 99 % sure without knowing any of those baseball players that they were not responsible for any of the deaths in Gaza. yes. Yes. So I'm just throwing it out there, y'all. I'm gonna just say like maybe these comments are actually not helpful and maybe you should, you know. Elwyn: Ha I would say 100, because they are probably major leaguers. Yeah. Derek Peterson: If you're that much of an activist, how about actually get off ⁓ your ass and do something? Go out into the world and make it a better place. ⁓ Volunteer at a soup kitchen. Elwyn: Yeah, a world of constipation and diarrhea, it's okay to be a normal piece of shit sometimes. Derek Peterson: Yes. It's a great saying. All right. Well, what are we talking about next week, Ellen? Elwyn: Let's do predictive markets, Cal-Sheep, Polymarket. Derek Peterson: That's right, I'm excited for that one. And hopefully my week will be a little less busy when we can actually dig into that. well sweet, on to next week. This was a good one. Elwyn: Everybody have a good one. Derek Peterson: Later.