Latest / The Breakfast Club / INTERVIEW: Jon Boogz Talks ‘Remedy in the Rhythm.’ Street Dance History & Career, ‘Michael’ Movie, Chris Brown + More

Transcript

INTERVIEW: Jon Boogz Talks ‘Remedy in the Rhythm.’ Street Dance History & Career, ‘Michael’ Movie, Chris Brown + More · The Breakfast Club

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hold up. Every day I wake up.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Wake your ass up. The Breakfast Club. You all finished
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: or y'all done? Morning, everybody.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: It's DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne Tha Guy. We are
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: The Breakfast Club. Lonely Rose is here as well. We
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: got a special guest in the building.
• 0:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, indeed.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: We got a brother, John Boogs. Welcome.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: What's up? What's up? What's up? How you feeling, my brother?
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: I'm happy to be here, man.
• 0:23
  Speaker 3: I've been a fan of the platform for a really
• 0:25
  Speaker 3: long time, so it's just dope to be on here
• 0:28
  Speaker 3: with y'all, kicking it and getting a chance to I
• 0:30
  Speaker 3: like your ensemble.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I like your jewelry. I love your outfit. I appreciate it.
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: This outfit was made by my homie Keon.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: It's a black owned company called Haas in Las Vegas
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: where I live. So he made this shirt for me
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: because I was in the Michael movie as a gift.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Nice. Then he made the custom jeans for me, so
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I got to shout the homie out. Okay. The jewelry
• 0:50
  Speaker 2: looks very intentional, too. Yeah. He made these as well. Okay,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I love that. He made these as well, yeah. So, yeah,
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: he just, he always hooking me up, man, and he
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: just got style, so. I'm about to check him out. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: he's tight.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: For people that don't know who you are, just start
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: from the beginning of who you are, you know, what
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: you do, how you started dancing at the age of four.
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Give me a little rundown of who John Boogs is.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: I mean, in a nutshell, I'm just an artist. You know,
• 1:13
  Speaker 3: I'm a filmmaker, Emmy-winning choreographer.
• 1:17
  Speaker 2: Director, writer, producer. I wear all the hats, you know
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: Because I really had no choice if I wanted to
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: get the stories out there that's been living in my
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: body for a long time. I had to learn to
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: wear all those hats. I started dancing really young. My
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: mother had this Michael Jackson VHS tape of the movie
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: called Moonwalker.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Remember when Michael turned into the Lamborghini?
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:41
  Speaker 3: So my mom would put that on, and she said, like,
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: I would just stay there and be glued to the TV.
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: So I was kind of fixated with Mike since I
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: was maybe five years old. And then my uncle, rest
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: in peace, my Uncle Ivan, I grew up in West Philly,
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: and he had all these tapes of Soul Train and
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: stuff like that. And he was like, you know Mike
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: get a lot of his moves from, you know, The Lockers,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: Electric Boogaloos. He was, like, putting me on, like, real
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: street dance history at a young age. And that kind
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: of sent me down the rabbit hole of, like, oh, okay,
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: there's a whole nother world to what Michael was doing.
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: And that kind of opened up my interest to want
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: to just dive into it and really get into it.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: What do people get wrong about street dancing?
• 2:24
  Speaker 4: Because I've had the privilege of reading a lot of
• 2:26
  Speaker 4: your stories and things that you've written. And the world
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: of street dancing, I never even thought about it. You
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: never even thought about why people are out there doing
• 2:36
  Speaker 4: what it is that they're doing.
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: 100%. I mean....
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: There's so many misconceptions about the art form. I think
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: one is like it's true rich history. You know, the
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: particular style that I do, popping and boogalooing, it started
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: in Oakland, California, and it actually started during the time
• 2:52
  Speaker 3: period of the Black Panther Party.
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: So it's crazy that a dance kind of started during
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: the Black Liberation Movement, and they would actually get down
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: to draw crowds for Huey Newton to do his speeches.
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: You know, a lot of people don't really know how
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: deep in the social connection that's always been connected to
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: the dance. It's always been a healing modality. It's always
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: been a response to an environment. And I think what
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: the masses see with our vernacular on film and screen
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  Speaker 3: just kind of hasn't represented the culture correctly. And I
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: think that's one of my big goals is to kind
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: of change that perception.
• 3:30
  Speaker 4: You know, people in the South Bronx right now are like,
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: what you mean popping and locking started in Oakland?
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: Well, there's two different styles. Hands down, b-boying started here
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: in New York. So there's no disputing that hip-hop, the
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: birthplace of hip-hop is New York City. But pop and
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: boogaloo are West Coast styles. They originated in Oakland. So
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: it's kind of like.
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: What's the difference? B-boying is more like the.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: the common audience would know is breakdancing, when people kind
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: of doing six steps, head spins, halos.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Poppin' is more of the robotic, you know, the wave.
• 4:05
  Speaker 5: Like the movie Breakin'. Exactly.
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: The movie Breakin' was like Poppin' Boogaloo, and then Beach
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Street was like the East Coast version.
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: You used to be a b-boy dancer. Nah, I wasn't.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I wish I could. But was it in Beach Street
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: when he had the brooms?
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: Right? That's breaking.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: That was breaking.
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: That was Boogaloo Shrimp. That was Boogaloo Shrimp Turbo, a.k.a. Turbo.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: That was Turbo. That wasn't Poppin' and Lockin'? Or was
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: that breaking? That is Poppin' and Lockin'. That was Poppin'
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: and Lockin'. You said that started on the West Coast.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: On the West Coast. Yes, sir. What about when Michael
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: gave Cher her ass on, what was that? American Bandstand?
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: American Bandstand. Remember when Michael started? When he was Robotic?
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't that be considered like Poppin' and Lockin'? I would.
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: Say it's like one of the like godfather dances that
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: kind of like spawned popping.
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Because robotting was like just
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: a black social dance that people did. You know what
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: I mean?
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: Like the funky robot was just a thing people did.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: And I think that evolved into popping, if that makes
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: any sense.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Share, share, share. Cup up with Michael, though. Don't do that.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: No, she did not. No, she did not. Michael started
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: doing some stuff. Yeah, he was doing some stuff.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: He was just like AI. All over the universe.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: No, he didn't.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: No, she didn't.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: When you started dancing and you were going through your
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: career as a dancer and a street dancer, did you
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: know that this was going to be a career and
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: did you know what you were going to make out
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: of it?
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: Cause I have daughters that dance and I always, you know,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: they're young, but I'm like, well, what's next?
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: But when I'm looking at you, I'm like, Oh, there
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: is a next.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: No, that's a great question.
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: Um, I got to shout my mother out because in tandem,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: I had this art form of street dance that I love,
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: but my mother was a huge film head. You know, she, she,
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: she used to make me watch really deep narrative movies
• 5:43
  Speaker 3: as a kid, like Schindler's list. Um, color purple the
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: roots made me watch the whole root series and then
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: she was a big uh musical fan west side story
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: uh south pacific so like I had this love for
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: popping and what everybody was doing in my in my
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: neighborhood but then I had this deep love for film
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: and then when I you know fast forward I moved
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: to Los Angeles I kind of noticed like everybody who
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: was doing our genre was either on like America's Best
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: Dance Crew or So You Think You Can Dance and
• 6:13
  Speaker 3: there was no like I couldn't see myself.
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? I was like, oh, I
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: want to.
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  Speaker 3: Make people feel the way I felt when I seen
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: those films. You know what I'm saying? And I'm like,
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: but with this beautiful vernacular that we do. And that's
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: where I think it spawned, like, I want to be
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: a filmmaker. You know, I got to learn how to direct.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: I got to learn how to write because the stories
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: that I see with the craft, they just don't exist
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  Speaker 3: in the space. And that's what kind of started me
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  Speaker 3: on that road of like, okay, I'm going to, choreograph
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  Speaker 3: but i'm also want to be a filmmaker as well you.
• 6:46
  Speaker 6: Know it's an education piece because a lot of times
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  Speaker 6: people don't know the deep connection between the movement and
• 6:51
  Speaker 6: the storytelling you remember when that video my viral the
• 6:54
  Speaker 6: guy dancing in front of the police officer during all
• 6:56
  Speaker 6: the riots remember.
• 6:57
  Speaker 2: That yeah i think i know what you're talking about
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: people were so confused oh yeah miho that's my homie miho.
• 7:02
  Speaker 6: Yeah people were like why would he dance and i
• 7:05
  Speaker 6: asked a friend and she was like no that's a
• 7:06
  Speaker 6: form of protest yeah.
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah it's just ignorance you know i'm saying like i
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: said that some of the origins of street dance started
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: during Black Liberation Movement. If people knew that, then they
• 7:15
  Speaker 3: wouldn't even be questioning what he was doing.
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  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So it's just a lack
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: of understanding and a lack of education on the craft
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  Speaker 2: as a whole, you know?
• 7:24
  Speaker 5: Do you think social media, like, helped people bring awareness? Well,
• 7:28
  Speaker 5: do social media bring awareness to street dancing?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think it's a gift and a curse.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? It's beautiful because more people
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: get to see it. You know what I mean, right?
• 7:38
  Speaker 3: You could just go on your phone and somebody will
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: pop up doing some, some, you know, you can see
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: what they're doing in Chicago with the footwork or see
• 7:45
  Speaker 3: what they're doing in Baltimore over here. Like you could,
• 7:48
  Speaker 3: the accessibility is a beautiful thing, but I still think, um,
• 7:52
  Speaker 3: since people are getting it so quick, I don't think
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: the education or the culture comes with it.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: So I think I love that social media is, is
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: bringing more eyes to the art. I just think, um,
• 8:04
  Speaker 3: we just need more, um, stories that bring education and culture.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: You think it's a lost art you think dancing is
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: lost art and the reason i ask is growing up
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: like you said we would watch michael jackson and that
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: would be the thing we want to watch him dance
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: we want to watch this person dance whether it's james
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: brown michael jackson but then when we went out to
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: the clubs or the or the prom you dance like
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: you know i mean it didn't matter we did the
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: running man or we dance slow like it was dancing
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: but now out and about, you don't see people dancing
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: as much. And now it's like, it's almost like look
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: down on a little bit.
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I do for TikTok.
• 8:35
  Speaker 5: And you see, especially in New York, it's all a
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: bunch of people.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: They do the creative dances, but nobody dances with each
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: other anymore. You know what I mean? Or when they
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: do dances, they jumping up and down to EDM. Like
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: you don't really see dance.
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Not in the way, not in the form. Yeah.
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, I can't disagree with you on that.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Before we would battle.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: No, I know.
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: It would be a circle and it'd be guys and girls.
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: It was fun. It was entertaining.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, how I grew up, it was like the
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: skating rinks, parties. You know what I mean? And that's
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: why I think maybe the downside to the phone situation
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: is it's high tech, low touch is one of my mentors.
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: What I always say is kind of like people don't.
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: interact the same as they used to. And I'm glad
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: I learned it that way. Cause you like, you had
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: to go to somebody's hood to, to hear about them
• 9:23
  Speaker 3: or see them or, or know, Oh, I heard about
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: this dude Terrell and he cut up like this. And like,
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: you'd be like, dang, I want to see it. So you, you,
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: you want to go to his neighborhood and catch it
• 9:33
  Speaker 3: in real time. So I think, yeah, it's a house party.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what I'm saying.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: So it was just this different time, different time period,
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: but you know, things evolve and, um, But I still
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: like where we going because I think we got some
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: good people out there that's pushing it forward and trying
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: to move it to the next level.
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: I don't think people understand like, you know, there's people
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: also trying to just survive by doing street dancing, right? Like,
• 10:01
  Speaker 4: you don't think about it. I never, I promise you,
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: I never thought about it until I started reading your stuff, right?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Because I'm just like, they're so talented. Yeah.
• 10:07
  Speaker 4: I would never think that they struggling with rent or,
• 10:10
  Speaker 4: you know, just trying to make ends meet. Like, they're
• 10:12
  Speaker 4: actually out there trying.
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: To make money. I did not know that. Oh, dude.
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: When I moved to LA, I was living with, four
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: other black men in a one bedroom apartment.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: We did it for five years.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: I would take a two and a half hour bus
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: ride from the Valley all the way down to Santa Monica.
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: And we would street perform on Santa Monica's third street
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: from 12 PM to 9 PM and jump on a
• 10:36
  Speaker 3: two and a half hour bus ride back, wake up
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: and do it again. And like, that was like that
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: time period shaped me, you know what I'm saying? It
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: shaped my craft. It shaped my hunger for the game.
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: It made me see, how tough living in LA really is.
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: Cause I'm from the East coast. So I'm thinking LA
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: is what I saw on TV. And then I move
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: out there and I'm like, yo, you know what I mean?
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: This is, this is not what it is. But, um,
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: I think, you know, there's a whole world of street
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: dancers out there who like really, you know, hit that
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: pavement every day to pay their rent. And I was,
• 11:10
  Speaker 3: I was one of those people and I got really lucky.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: That's why it's not Michael Jackson just cause he my idol,
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: but like Michael, that's how I got discovered. to go
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: do the Cirque du Soleil show was I was street
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: performing on Santa Monica and somebody from Michael Jackson's estate
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: saw me and was like, yo, they're doing a show
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: in Vegas at this time. I'm living poor. So, you know,
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: people in LA always tell you, yeah, I can do
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: this for you. I can do this for you.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm like, all right, cool. Gave me a card.
• 11:35
  Speaker 3: They're like, email a video to this email. And I
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: was like, what I got to lose? Like, you know,
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: I'm broke anyway.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: We out here struggling.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: And then I emailed, I sent a video dancing to
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: man in a mirror to that email. And then like,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: Two days later, they flew me out to Vegas to
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: see the show. And I was like, I couldn't believe
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: they wanted me to be in that, like in my
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: head at that time. And I was just grateful. So
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: shout out to Cirque du Soleil because that gave me
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: the time to like not be broke, figure out what
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I really wanted to do with the craft. And then
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: that's when the filmmaking and directing and writing really kicked
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: in as well. during my years at the Michael Jackson Circus.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: What did you play? How do you dance to Man
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: in the Mirror? All I do is cry when that
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: song comes on. Michael Jackson don't cry. He dance like
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: Michael Jackson. Man in the Mirror? I never seen Michael
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: dance to it. Yeah, it's just one of my all-time
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: favorite songs. I love it. I'm just like, how do
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: you dance to Man in the Mirror?
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, to me, popping is just an instrument to
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: illustrate music. I don't have a limit to what music
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: I can dance to. I love orchestrated music.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: I love... Jay-Z. My palette for music is... So you
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: don't always need a beat. Nah, it's a feeling. It's emotion.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Dance is emoting emotion. You know what I mean?
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: You stop. So what did you play in Cirque du Soleil?
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: What character?
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: It was a character actually called a tabloid junkie, which
• 12:59
  Speaker 3: it represented the media. You know how Michael always had
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: his tiffs with the media and they always bashing him
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: in the media. So we kind of represented the side...
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: You was a camera guy or a reporter?
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: It was funny.
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: It was kind of like we were like these machines
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: with cameras on top of our head, cameras on our shoulders,
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: cameras everywhere. So it was just like it wasn't really
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: an actual person. It was more like a symbol of
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: media in a negative fashion.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And then in the new movie, you played one of
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: the gang members.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: Another full circle moment because when I was living with
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: four people in a one bedroom, somebody from Michael's estate
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: saw me.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: I got that show. That's where I met my wife.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? It changed my whole life.
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: So that was a blessing.
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: And then, I don't know, six, seven years later, my homies,
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: shout out Rich and Tone.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: They were the choreographers for the movie. And they reached
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: out to me.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: It was like, yo, Boogs, there's a scene in the
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: movie where Michael's going to see Poppin' for the first time.
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: And I was like, come on, man. This is like
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: full circle. Like I was watching it when I was
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: five years old. Then I end up changing my life,
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: getting into his Cirque du Soleil show. And now I'm
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: about to play a part where he's seeing... the.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Particular style that I do.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: That was like, you couldn't write that.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You couldn't even write that better. You know what I'm saying?
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: And so it was, even though it was a small part,
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: I thought it was one of the more authentic scenes
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: of the movie because a lot of people know how
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: talented Michael was and his music and how grandioso his
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: performances were. But a lot of people don't know he
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: learned street dance from real street dancers. You know, Poppin' Taco, Poppin' Pete,
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: Boogaloo Shrimp, Jeffrey Daniels, Casper. These are all people who
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: really used to go to Mike's house in Havenhurst and
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: really teach him some of those steps. So a lot
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: of people think Mike doing the backslide, because it's not
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: the moonwalk, it's actually really the backslide. That's the real
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: terminology for it. They thought, like, he created that, you
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: know what I'm saying? But he really, but that was
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: Mike's genius. Mike knew the beauty of, like, Fred Astaire
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: and Bob Fosse and what those dudes brought to the table,
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: but also knew what dudes was doing in the hood
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: was just as elevated as, And he was the first
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: to kind of merge it.
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: And that's why Michael's movement to this day is still untouched.
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: It's funny because even being young back then and before
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: the internet and everything, you heard that though.
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: You heard like... Actually, I remember somebody saying, Boogaloo and
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: Turbo taught Michael how to dance. Yeah.
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know if that was true. But it was
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Boogaloo Shrimp. There's a lot of people I think Michael
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: interacted with. I can't speak exactly on everybody. I just named...
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: the few names that I do know that I know
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: Taco was with him for a long time. I know
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: Boogaloo Shrimp was with him, Casper, Jeffrey Daniels from the
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: group Shalamar back in the day.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: And there's some other people. I was thinking about the
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: guys from the Breaking movie, though. Yeah, yeah, that's Shrimp.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: That's Shrimp.
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: Sorry, a lot of people know him as Turbo. In
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: the movie, he's Turbo. In the street, he's Boogaloo Shrimp.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: Did you ever meet Michael?
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Nah, man. Nah.
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: I've gotten to meet some of his family members, but
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: never had a chance to meet him. That's... But I
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: feel like I've been able to be a part of
• 16:03
  Speaker 3: his legacy in a unique way. So I'm just honored
• 16:07
  Speaker 3: to even be in that little percentile who's helping, you know,
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: help elevating his legacy still.
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: I want to get into Remedy and Rhythm. Yeah.
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: But I have to ask you before we move on.
• 16:18
  Speaker 4: Better dancer, because you would know better than all of
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: us in this room, Michael Jackson.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: Or Chris Brown? Okay, I'm going to keep it a bean. Mm-hmm. Michael.
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to tell you why. Chris Brown is
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: so talented in his versatility of dance. He can pop
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: a little bit, crump a little bit like he can
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: do a little bit.
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: But like Michael made up isms. Yep. That only Michael does. does.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: I can't find a move that I'm like, that's Chris Brown.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: He could do it though.
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: If you teach him, he'll do it and he'll do
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: it just as good as the dancer, if not better.
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: But Michael has certain moves that everyone knows when you
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: do that kick.
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: That's Michael. That's Mike. It's just iconic. It's just certain movements.
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: I got to give him the nod just because He
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: has original moves that is what we would consider like
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: that's some Michael Jackson shit.
• 17:21
  Speaker 1: See, I disagree, but I'm not a dancer. The reason
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: I said that is what I see Chris Brown, what
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: he can do.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: To me, it feels like he's able to do what
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Michael Jackson can do on crack. Meaning he can do
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: a lot of the moves, but then he adds in
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: the acro where he's flipping and doing it and making
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: his body do weird stuff that I've never seen before
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: when it comes to dancing on top of that.
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're both amazing dancers.
• 17:46
  Speaker 5: Michael Jackson can do things that... Well, could do things
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: that nobody else can do. Imagine somebody walking on stage,
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: grabbing a crotch, screaming hee-hee on his toes.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: And he can get away with it.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. So don't get me wrong. Shout
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: out to Chris, because Chris is phenomenal.
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: And he is.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: He is phenomenal. It's just, I'm going to.
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: Be biased because Mike has been a part of my
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: life since I was five years old.
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: So, like, I didn't watch Chris and get inspired by him.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: I don't think there's no wrong answer.
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but Chris... I mean, outside of Mike, it's Chris.
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: Now what you said make a lot of sense. Like
• 18:18
  Speaker 4: you can, everybody got a little bit of Michael in them.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. There's a lot of Michael. Yeah. I think that makes. Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Mike's isms was just crazy. Even how he would just
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: slap him. He would just do crazy.
• 18:29
  Speaker 5: Go out there and do stuff that you would see
• 18:31
  Speaker 5: happen in the back of your classroom, but you wouldn't
• 18:32
  Speaker 5: pay attention to him doing it.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: There's only one other person with isms to me. Who?
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: James Brown. Oh, and yeah, that's Mike's teacher. You know
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying? You get what I'm saying?
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: So like, like, And to be honest, that was... My
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: mother used to make me watch James Brown tape. Shout
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: out my mama again. She used to make me watch
• 18:50
  Speaker 3: James Brown all the time. The Night Train performance, the
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: little black and white one. And he was on some
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: TV show and he was gliding on one leg and vibrating.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Oh, crazy. James was crazy. James got this. James was
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: a dog on that dance floor. He was crazy. Now,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Remedy and Rhythm.
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: It's about your childhood best friend who completed suicide.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: And then you... spiraled into isolation, right?
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the film Remedy and the Rhythm is basically about
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: four friends who all grew up together, and one of
• 19:23
  Speaker 3: them ends up taking their own life, so the other
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: three are left behind to kind of deal with the
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: grieving of that situation. And then the three characters, they
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: all go to this kind of group therapy session that
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: they all promised each other that they would go to
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: when the friend passed away. And when they go there,
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: you see how the death of the friend has changed
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: triggered each one of them in different ways. But instead
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: of hearing them talk about it, you see their deepest trauma.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: connected to the friend's death play out in an operatic
• 19:53
  Speaker 3: fashion so like through my through choreography poetry music um
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: and so far our film has gotten into three two
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: oscar qualifiers so i'm really happy about that thank you
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: thank you no i'm really happy about that And just
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: using this as an opportunity for twofold, like, because I'm
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: a huge advocate for mental health, you know what I'm saying,
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: especially amongst black men. So I really wanted to make
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: a film that touched on that because I lost a
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: friend to that, you know, to that exact situation. But
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: I also want to show people there's no limits to
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: the stories that can be told. No disrespect to these
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: films because these films gave jobs to people and they
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: provided opportunities, but step up can't be the standard.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: I want a film as powerful as Moonlight with our
• 20:41
  Speaker 3: vernacular in it, pushing the story forward. You know what
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: I'm saying? And I just feel like we've never seen that.
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: And so this film to me is like the beginning,
• 20:49
  Speaker 3: I hope, of us changing the narrative of like what
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: stories can be told with black dance vernacular on screen.
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: How did you know you were in a place like
• 20:58
  Speaker 6: just grieving wise where you were able to tell the story?
• 21:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, it took, it took a little while, you know, like, um,
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: when my friend, uh, passed away, um, uh, Steven Twitch boss, um,
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: rest in peace.
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: I remember that.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: We known each other for a long time. And when
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: he passed away, that's what kind of sparked the inspiration
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: to write it.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: And me and my wife, we went up to the
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Kennedy center. I was doing like an art and arts
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: and residency there at that time. And like, I don't
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: know what happened, but like I, I wrote the script
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: in like two days. It just like, just like came
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: through me. You know what I'm saying? It was like divine.
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: It was spiritual experience. And then I had to single-handedly
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: kind of raise like $ 250, 000 to shoot the film myself.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: So I wrote it, directed it, produced it, choreographed it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 3: With my wife, raised all the money, and then had
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: to deal with the emotion of doing it. It was
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: one of the hardest things I ever had to do
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: in my life, hands down. But it was like a
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: cathartic experience. And like once we did it, I felt
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: like a huge weight.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: Come up off me.
• 22:07
  Speaker 3: It felt like a 200-pound weight just left my body.
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 22:10
  Speaker 6: Because that was such a public situation because he was like,
• 22:13
  Speaker 6: I don't, from a media standpoint, it's like, behind it,
• 22:16
  Speaker 6: you think about y'all having to grieve in real life,
• 22:19
  Speaker 6: but every day you're seeing and hearing things that are
• 22:21
  Speaker 6: coming in.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was crazy because his gift was he
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: made everybody feel seen.
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: He made everybody feel important, man. Like, that to me
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: was his gift. and so, like, It wasn't just me.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: A whole community was hit. Our whole community was hit
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: because he was somebody who set the bar. You know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 3: he's somebody who took it to that next level and
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: somebody you would aspire to want to be like in
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: the space. So to see him go and then, you know,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: have his kids left behind, it was just a sad,
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: very sad situation. But we still pushing for him, and
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: his legacy still lives through us.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: We going to keep rocking for him.
• 23:01
  Speaker 5: What did making the film teach you about grief that
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: you didn't know before?
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: Ooh.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That's a good question. That it's inevitable. I think, you know,
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: like grief, grief to me is inevitable.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Like everybody at some point in time is going to
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: grieve something, whether it's a relationship, a friendship, a pet,
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a parent.
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: I realize like there's nobody that can dodge grief. No
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: one can dodge it. It comes for all of us
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: at some point in time in our life, some earlier
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: in our lives than others. but it's going to come
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: in some form or fashion.
• 23:39
  Speaker 2: So for me, yeah, I think that's what I learned
• 23:41
  Speaker 2: the most about it.
• 23:42
  Speaker 3: And that I'm glad that I have this outlet of filmmaking, movement, acting,
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: all these things that I do that can kind of
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: help me channel grief. Because I was dealing with grief
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: while making the film. You know what I'm saying? I
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: lost my grandfather that same year we made the film.
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: I lost my dog the same year we made the film. Damn, John.
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: It was a lot going on at that time. So
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: it was like, but I think everything had to go
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: that way in order for the film to be what
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: it was.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: So, like, I think it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: Actually, what do they say that? That saying, like, art
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: imitating life?
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah, something like that. Yeah, like, I think that's exactly
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: what happened to me at the time.
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: Was there anything you were angry at him about that
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: you felt guilty of being angry about?
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: No. No, I was never angry at him. with him.
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: I mean, I had other friends too, in, in my
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: space that were dealing with, um, mental health issues as well.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: So it wasn't just Steven, you know, it was like,
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: that's what made me more called to write it too.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: Cause when it happened with Steven, I was like, okay, okay.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: And then I.
• 24:51
  Speaker 3: Had other people, which I, out of respect, I won't
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: say names or whatever, but I had other people in my,
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: in my life that were dealing with those things. So
• 24:58
  Speaker 3: I'm like, dang, I feel like It felt like a
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: calling now at that point. At first it was like, OK,
• 25:04
  Speaker 3: I'm sad that I lost my friend. And then when
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: I started seeing like there's so many other black men
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: dealing with it. And I was going through my own
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: mental health journey, dealing with my own anxiety and wrestling
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: with that. So I was like, dang, I got my
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: own stuff. And then I'm seeing all my brothers around
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: me dealing with it. Maybe I need to do something
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: that lets everybody know like. That brings a little more
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: awareness around it.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Did you torture yourself with questions? Like, what did I miss?
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: What could I have done? Did you go through any
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: of that? I mean, yeah, naturally.
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: I spoke to him like a couple days before he passed.
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: And the crazy thing is we were talking about a
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: film that was like the genesis of Remedy and the Rhythm.
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: I did a piece, I don't know, to one of Kendrick,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: one of my favorite Kendrick tracks. And I usually don't
• 25:46
  Speaker 3: use other people's music. I usually get music made from
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: my films. But Mother I Sober was one of my
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: favorite tracks on Kendrick's album. And we had made a
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: film about three black men going to therapy for the
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: first time.
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: And it was all told through movement.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: And it was crazy that me and his last conversation
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: was about that film.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: So to me, I.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Felt like it was maybe divine that I had to
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: elevate that idea and take it to another level. And
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: that's what Remedy and the Rhythm is. It's pretty much
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: that idea taken to the next level.
• 26:20
  Speaker 5: How did you protect your mental through that time, right?
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Because you said you lost your dog.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You lost your grandfather, son.
• 26:27
  Speaker 5: And then the concept of Remedy and Rhythm is about
• 26:31
  Speaker 5: a friend.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. You lost, right? Yeah.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: You wrote it.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: You created it. You directed it. Produced it. Mm-hmm. Started it.
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Did the choreo. Yeah.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: How the hell did you.
• 26:41
  Speaker 5: Not crack under all of that or, like, snap?
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: My wife. That's the lie. My wife. Yeah, my wife.
• 26:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, we're each other's support system.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: And, yeah, we had, you know, it was a tough
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: time for us, but I was lucky to just have
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: her every step of the way, and we was just, yeah,
• 26:59
  Speaker 3: just keeping each other sane during a really crazy time.
• 27:02
  Speaker 3: So I think, yeah, if it wasn't for my wife,
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: that would have been, I don't know if I would
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: have been able to do the film, to be honest.
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? So, like, having her there,
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and she helped me.
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: Again, she co-choreographed the film with me. So, like, we're
• 27:15
  Speaker 3: partners in all things.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean? We're friends.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: We're best friends first, but we also, like, collaborate together,
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: and we make the best art together.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: That's beautiful. I know you said it was during Cirque
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: du Soleil, so how did you know she was the one?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: We did a.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Dance battle for each other.
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: Was it a dance battle?
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: Who won? I can tell you the story.
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: So with Cirque, before shows, they had this thing called
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: Tape Rouge, where they call all the artists in, and
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: anybody who's out sick that day, or like, hey, a
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: pod is not working on a stage. It's like any
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: announcements you need to know before the show. And so
• 27:48
  Speaker 3: it's like my first week in the show. So I'm
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: not in the show. I'm just getting integrated. They're showing
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: me backstage how it works. And then I walk in
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: and then I see this beautiful Polynesian woman over there
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: in the corner. And I'm like, I'm like, I'm gonna
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: just pretend like. I'm going to go sit over there.
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? I kind of walk my way.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: Man, just got a job still thinking about Halloween. Just
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: got a job. I'm going to walk over there. Well,
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: she was beautiful.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, she was beautiful.
• 28:15
  Speaker 3: And I went over there and I introduced myself and
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: then kind of the rest kind of played out how.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: It played out.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: Did y'all dance battle?
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Nah, nah, nah. Have y'all ever battled each other? No, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: She would get me though. She probably would get me though.
• 28:28
  Speaker 2: She probably would get me.
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: You know, there's something so interesting about being a dancer, right?
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: Because everybody's watching you.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Your body. Yeah. Right? But they don't know what's going
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: on inside of you.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: Have you ever been performing at a high level, but
• 28:41
  Speaker 4: you've fallen apart on the inside?
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, yeah, all the time. You know what
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: I'm saying?
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think dancers don't get enough credit for
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: the level of athleticism that goes into it. I think
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: there's a Kobe Bryant quote out there where I seen
• 28:58
  Speaker 3: him on an interview talking about how dancers put their
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: bodies through more than Because, you know, there's no off-season
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: for us.
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: Like, if you do it full-time or you're doing it as, like,
• 29:09
  Speaker 3: a job, you know, there's no off-season.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Not if you want to pay them bills. You know
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: what I mean?
• 29:15
  Speaker 3: So it's just, yeah, there's been times where I've been
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: performing and nobody knows I got a messed-up knee or
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: a messed-up back or mentally I'm not in the right space.
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: But I think that's the beauty of it. You can
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: always kind of channel whatever's going on and use it.
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: to your advantage to make the performance uh more potent
• 29:36
  Speaker 3: or more uh palatable you know your.
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Film remedy and rhythm it shows a man not knowing
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: what to do with his pain right do you think
• 29:44
  Speaker 4: a lot of men have just learned how to survive
• 29:46
  Speaker 4: without ever learning how to process 100 100.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: 100 i mean i i notice even just in my
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: own circle of friend group we have Trouble is black
• 29:56
  Speaker 3: men sometimes communicating our feelings to one another. You know
• 30:00
  Speaker 3: what I mean? And, like, I'm always not saying I'm above.
• 30:04
  Speaker 3: I'm just always trying to want to lead by example.
• 30:06
  Speaker 2: Like, it's okay to cry.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: It's okay to tell me you're upset about something. Like,
• 30:10
  Speaker 3: we don't have to be put on this, you know,
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess, invisible armor of, like, I'm
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: a man.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: Like, whatever that may be. So, yeah, I definitely... I feel.
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: Like, you know, there's a lot of men of color
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: out there who are still struggling with that. But I
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: think the more we talk about it, the more it's
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: hopefully we break that stigma a little bit and start
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: moving on from that.
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: I want to ask, why do you think the Asian
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: community accepts dance and holds on to dance so much?
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: Recently in my, I don't know why it's been popping up,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: probably because my daughter's dance. I've been seeing like a
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: lot of the Asian dance competitions.
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: And they are getting busy. And you can tell they're
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: heavily influenced by Mike, and they're doing the pop and lock,
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: and they're doing hard. But I feel like they put
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: it on a bigger platform than we do. Why do
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: you think that is?
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, he is not Asian. He don't know.
• 31:00
  Speaker 5: He can't answer that question.
• 31:01
  Speaker 1: But he's part of the dance world.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: I can understand why.
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: No, I know. I got an answer to it. I'm
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: actually glad Envy asked that question. It's like what I've
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: seen is like they are very– they love black culture
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: over there.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Particularly hip hop culture. You
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: know what I'm saying?
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: And over there, like they have like schools and the
• 31:24
  Speaker 3: government's fund, like, um, dance competitions. Like one of my
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: young is that I mentor. He judged the competition over
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: there in, uh, in Shanghai. And it was about 15,000
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: people to come.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Watch a pop.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I've never seen that.
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: Like, that's what I'm saying.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: Like, so it makes me, it makes me, it makes
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: me happy to see, black dance all over the world
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: and people loving it. I just wish there were more
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: black faces at the forefront of the craft. You know
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: what I'm saying? That's something that I wish I would
• 31:55
  Speaker 3: see more. But just as a lover of the craft,
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: I love that other countries value black culture and they
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: want to do it. I just wish we would get
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: that same love where it comes from.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: It originates, which is part of one of the reasons
• 32:11
  Speaker 3: I got another project I'm working on to kind of
• 32:13
  Speaker 3: honor the spaces and places that created these, these dances.
• 32:17
  Speaker 3: Cause a lot of people don't know who, uh, pop
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: tarts is, or the black messengers or granny and the
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: robotroids or the lockers or demons of the mind or
• 32:26
  Speaker 3: close encounters of the funkiest kind. These are like these
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: dudes in China wouldn't even be doing what they doing
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: without these dudes, but we don't even know who they are.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? So it's, it's, it's crazy. It's, it's,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: it's a beautiful thing to see it expand.
• 32:39
  Speaker 3: But again, I think, um, As long as we honor
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: where it comes from and the people that it comes
• 32:44
  Speaker 3: from and we actually show love to the people that
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: it comes from, then I got no problem with anybody
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: doing it.
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: As stupid as this may sound, I don't think people
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: realize that dancing is born out of the struggle.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: 100%.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: I think because it looks so fun when people are
• 32:59
  Speaker 4: doing it, they don't equate that with, no, that's rooted
• 33:02
  Speaker 4: in struggle.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: 100%. 100%.
• 33:03
  Speaker 3: That's what I'm saying. If people really knew that it
• 33:07
  Speaker 3: comes from marginalized communities, oppressed communities- And then these beautiful
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: gems of art are birthed in those communities.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: And then everybody around the world starts to do it.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Your favorite pop stars, your favorite, you know, it just
• 33:20
  Speaker 3: becomes a thing. But people don't really know the why
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: behind the craft.
• 33:26
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And what I've been learning, whether it's Crump, whether it's B-Boying,
• 33:30
  Speaker 3: whether it's popping, flexing from Brooklyn.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: Chicago footwork, what I noticed.
• 33:36
  Speaker 3: is the commonality or the, what do you call it,
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: common denominator of all those styles is that it's a
• 33:41
  Speaker 3: healing modality and it's a response to their environment. And
• 33:45
  Speaker 3: that's what I'm noticing is the one common thread between all.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: The art forms.
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: Are the Japanese agents I think they're Filipino, yes, the
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: majority of them, yeah.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Because I've never seen them before. Yeah, yeah, they got
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: the mask, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool.
• 33:57
  Speaker 6: If the government got involved here, what?
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: I mean, it matched.
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: No, we just had a conversation this weekend about that.
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: Remember I told you the Blue Man Group was black?
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, I thought they were, you know.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: And then I looked it up.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: And they ain't no color. That's what they said. They
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: don't like to disclose what they are, so. Girl, they blue.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: She was high. I was just messing with her. I
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: was just telling her all kinds of stuff. I was like, yo,
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: The Jabba Walkers are really white people and the Blue
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: Man Group is black people.
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: And I was confused because white people don't be, you know,
• 34:31
  Speaker 5: doing all that, moving like.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: The Jabba Walkers.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: I said, no, they got to be Asian or black.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: You know, but.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: Sorry. Sorry, folks. No, no, no, no. John was like,
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: where the fuck am I?
• 34:42
  Speaker 5: I love it.
• 34:44
  Speaker 6: If the government got involved in the dance community here
• 34:47
  Speaker 6: in the U.S., what do you think would be the
• 34:49
  Speaker 6: most helpful thing that they could do to uplift the
• 34:52
  Speaker 6: dance community, our dance community first?
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Man, we'd have to go on for another hour to
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: do that. But in a simple, in a simple terms,
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: I feel like institutions, you know, like where's our Juilliard?
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: You understand what I'm saying? You know what I mean?
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Like these art forms have changed the world. You know
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: what I'm saying? These art, Michael, like think.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: About if you took, the dance part out of Michael Jackson,
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: he wouldn't be, he wouldn't be the star that we
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: know him as. So I feel like we've already proven
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: that our art forms change.
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: The world period.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: So I feel like we deserve more institutions where people
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: can learn it. Like, and even for me, it's one
• 35:32
  Speaker 3: of them situations where like showing, creating an institution where
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: there's multiple lanes to like there, I didn't know I
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: was going to, get into theater and filmmaking. Cause at
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: the time, like when I moved to LA, it was
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: only America's best dance crew. So you can dance like
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: me and little buck shout out to one of my
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: biggest collaborators, little buck. It was like, we, we started
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: to have to create our own lane that it wasn't there.
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: And then we started to be like, well, we, we
• 36:00
  Speaker 3: going to start making these films that touch on social
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: justice and touch on mass incarceration or mental health. Like
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: we started like being like, we're going to be the
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: ones who use deep narrative and, subjects and attach it
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: to black vernacular and do it in a cinematic theatrical way.
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: So I feel like let's create spaces where we can
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: teach young black and brown kids, not only the art form,
• 36:20
  Speaker 3: but how to be filmmakers, how to, how to compose music.
• 36:23
  Speaker 3: How do you score a film? You know, what goes
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: into that? Like there's so many things that like, um,
• 36:29
  Speaker 3: that I think we could do, but I think it
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: would start with institutions, you know, build in schools.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Where people can actually go and learn and maybe.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: Their scholarships are where people can go and learn the craft.
• 36:41
  Speaker 6: And it's expensive too, because for all those years when
• 36:44
  Speaker 6: you were dancing in Santa Monica, you can't really think
• 36:47
  Speaker 6: of like what retirement or like comfortability looks like because
• 36:50
  Speaker 6: you're literally just trying to live.
• 36:51
  Speaker 1: Enjoy the moment.
• 36:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, there's no like, even if it's like scholarships that
• 36:54
  Speaker 6: just help you pay your bills. I remember they was
• 36:56
  Speaker 6: doing that during the pandemic with a lot of the
• 36:57
  Speaker 6: dancers in LA. They were giving out scholarships that just
• 37:00
  Speaker 6: help you buy food and like whatever. Like a lot
• 37:02
  Speaker 6: of times they going without basic needs because they just
• 37:05
  Speaker 6: are dancing and not really making a lot of money.
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's no 401k. Yeah. You know what I mean?
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: So yeah, that's what I think is I think more
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: institutions and like, yeah, just, I think they always try
• 37:18
  Speaker 3: to deem our art form beneath other art forms. And
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: maybe I think it's because it comes from black and
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: brown communities. That's why they're always trying to put it
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: down there. But I truly believe our art form is
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: just as prestigious as any art form that exists.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. And that's just what it is and how it is.
• 37:36
  Speaker 2: And I stand on that.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: And so I think, yeah, I would just love to
• 37:40
  Speaker 3: see more places where people can learn about some of
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: the things I was telling y'all today, who the black
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: messengers are, who the electric boogers are, who the lockers are,
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: then learn those foundational steps and then go, okay, once
• 37:49
  Speaker 3: you get the steps, what do you want to do it?
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: You want to choreograph? Do you want to just dance?
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: Dancing is not just either competitions or dancing behind an artist.
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: There was an era where Fred Astaire, Gene Kelly, Nicholas Brothers,
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Sammy Davis Jr. Like where dancers were triple threats. They
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: were at the forefront. They were acting and dancing. And
• 38:08
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to also bring that back too. Cause I'm like, nah,
• 38:11
  Speaker 3: we not, just background. Like, you know what I'm saying?
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: But that's also why I said, oh, I have to.
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: Learn how to act. I have to learn how to write.
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: I have to learn how to direct or else the
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: dreams that I have and that I want to manifest
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: are not going to happen because I saw the game
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: for what it was and how they were treating our
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: art form. And I'm like, oh, if I don't learn
• 38:28
  Speaker 3: multiple skills where I see it going, it's just not
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: going to happen.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Let's stay there for a second, right?
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: Do you think dance and like dance movies, they sometimes
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: participate in, I guess, like their own disrespect because.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: They emphasize their tricks in the competition, but they don't
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: talk about the character and story.
• 38:45
  Speaker 4: Every time I hear you talk about dance, there's characters
• 38:47
  Speaker 4: behind it, there's real story behind it.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: It makes me appreciate it more. No, 100%. I think
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: dance movies have become more of a spectacle. You know
• 38:56
  Speaker 2: what I mean? It's more entertainment, but the narrative and
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: the scripting lacks depth. It lacks substance.
• 39:03
  Speaker 3: And it lacks that real understanding of the subculture in
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: which they're looking at.
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: You know what I mean?
• 39:10
  Speaker 3: And I'm going to say this out loud because I
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: got the platform and y'all brought me on here. It's
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: like the last time we had two black dancers from
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: the culture star in a movie that's about street dance
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: was Breaking.
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: That's really, that's crazy. Boogaloo shrimp. Yeah. 83, 83. That's crazy.
• 39:29
  Speaker 3: So if not, no disrespect to him, they'll put Channing
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: Tatum at the forefront and then put real dancers behind him,
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: or they'll put an actor in that role. And I
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: feel like even, even though breaking narratively wasn't the greatest
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: narrative story, What I love about it was at least
• 39:47
  Speaker 3: they took two brothers who lived the culture, did it,
• 39:51
  Speaker 3: and made them the forefront of the movie. And I
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: think that's the reason why it had so much success
• 39:55
  Speaker 3: in the 80s. It's because they didn't skip out on
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: the authenticity. Like the stars are going to be from L.A.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Who do pop in.
• 40:03
  Speaker 3: And boom, now the broom scene is iconic.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying?
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: So to me, that's why I'm like, why haven't I
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: seen any of the movies have black street dancers in
• 40:14
  Speaker 3: the lead roles.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: But we're going to change that.
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: I do think the narrative was great. The message in
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: the movie was great. Because remember, they were trying to
• 40:21
  Speaker 5: stop them. Turbo and, oh my God, what's the main guy?
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: Shabba Doo. Ozone. Yeah, Ozone.
• 40:28
  Speaker 5: Remember, they were trying to stop them from doing something.
• 40:32
  Speaker 5: Wasn't it like the local council or something?
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 5: Oh yeah, they were trying to shut down their.
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: It was like an institution. Right, right. It was like
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: an institution.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they were trying to shut down the school where
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: they were going to like tear down the building and
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: they kind of did a whole fundraiser to kind of
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: keep the institution in the community for the people. So yeah,
• 40:51
  Speaker 3: that was Breaking 2. But yeah, that was a good narrative.
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: I was thinking Breaking 1, my part.
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: Right, my bad. I got them mixed up because I
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: saw both of them. I don't even remember what Breaking
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: 1 narrative was. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? All
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: you remember is the dance and I don't remember.
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: And salute to all the dance schools out there. There's
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: a lot of hip-hop dance schools and it's very few
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: But I love seeing it, teaching the kids real authentic
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: hip hop. So salute to those dance schools out there.
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: And we said it earlier, you won an Emmy, but
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: you were the first black street dance choreographer.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: To win an Emmy for blind spotting. How does that feel?
• 41:20
  Speaker 4: Being first still feel like an accomplishment?
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: Oh, man.
• 41:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, my wife tries to help me celebrate the
• 41:27
  Speaker 3: small things because I'm so forward thinking that sometimes I
• 41:31
  Speaker 3: don't sit. In any of those moments, I still feel
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: like I got so much I want to do as
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: a director and a filmmaker and a creative. But shout
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: out Rafael Casal and Davi Diggs. Like they actually came
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: to a theater show that Lil Buck and I created
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: called Love Heals All Wounds. We toured 25 cities. We
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: did a Europe run. And I'll never forget, we did
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: the show in L.A. at the Royce Hall at UCLA.
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: And then Rafa invites me to his crib and he's like, yo, man,
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: Stars just gave us a deal. to make Blindspotting a
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: TV show. And some of the stuff you're doing in
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: your theater show, I see it existing in the TV series.
• 42:07
  Speaker 3: And so I'm forever grateful to those brothers because they
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: gave me a platform to kind of show what we
• 42:12
  Speaker 3: were already kind of doing in the theater space and
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: bring it to the screen. And not only did we
• 42:17
  Speaker 3: win an Emmy, but we told the history of the
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: N-word through street dance on TV and it won an Emmy.
• 42:24
  Speaker 3: So to me, it's like not only being the first
• 42:25
  Speaker 3: black street dancer, but the subject matter was so difficult
• 42:30
  Speaker 3: to express and through movement that i think it almost
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: deserved like two awards because i i personally still to
• 42:37
  Speaker 3: this day i've never seen anything like that on tv
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: and i don't think we will see anything like that
• 42:42
  Speaker 3: again on tv so shout out to them brothers man that's.
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: A divine walk everything you went through and now you
• 42:48
  Speaker 6: hear me like all the conversation the emmys and all
• 42:52
  Speaker 6: the stuff to look back at where you started from Yeah.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: It's crazy. It is crazy. It is crazy. How do
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: you address the history of the N-word in dance?
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: What's crazy, it was like, in the script, it just said,
• 43:03
  Speaker 3: John choreographs history of the N-word. There was no, like,
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: no layout. You know what I'm saying? Now, I worked
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: with the director of the episode, Jess Wu. She was
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: the director of episode three, season two.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: And we sat down, and we started to create the worlds. Like, okay, cool.
• 43:19
  Speaker 3: I thought in my brain, like, the history of the
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: N-word and how it's changed over time. You know what
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: I'm saying? So I was like, oh, there's, we'll do the,
• 43:29
  Speaker 3: you know, the slave, slavery era. We'll do the civil
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: rights era. We'll do the modern era. And we kind
• 43:35
  Speaker 3: of broke it down into three worlds. And I had
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: done a piece in my theater show that was like
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: an auction. You know what I'm saying? Like a slave auction.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: So I had already kind of dabbled with that concept before.
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: And then I started looking up sit-ins, you know, where
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: blacks used to sit in the restaurants as a form
• 43:50
  Speaker 3: of protest. And then obviously people, There's too many modern
• 43:54
  Speaker 3: that we can talk about. George Floyd, all kinds of stuff.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: So we pulled from the three different generations of the
• 44:01
  Speaker 3: word and broke it down into three worlds.
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: And then each world, me and my wife, we choreographed
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: each one together to kind of make it come to life.
• 44:12
  Speaker 4: What do you think about the word now? You know,
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: there's always a debate. There was a debate a week ago.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: I mean, in a, it's tough because not saying tough
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: in that way we're like I think personally we don't
• 44:28
  Speaker 3: need to use it you know what I'm saying like
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: I don't think we need to use it at all
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: I agree I can't lie and say that I grew
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: up in neighborhoods where everybody was using it all the
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: time even myself you know I've been a victim of
• 44:41
  Speaker 3: using it all the time you know all the time
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: but I've been trying to like change that because I
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: feel like once I started doing some of the work
• 44:48
  Speaker 3: I started doing over the years and I started really
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: like tapping into the social impact part of what I'm doing,
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: I just realized, like, I understand it, because some people
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: just grew up in environments where.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: They hear it all the time. And it's habitual. Yeah,
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: it's habitual. So I understand that, but also, like, you know,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: we can change habits. Favorite Michael Jackson movie? Favorite Michael Jackson?
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: There's just a couple of them out there. Movie? Yeah. Meaning, like, like, like...
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: Flex Washington, Javon Jackson. Nobody likes Flex Washington.
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: Now you bring that one up.
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: Oh.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Because he's all things Michael Jackson, so I know you.
• 45:23
  Speaker 2: Watched the one with Flex. Okay, I put the Javar
• 45:26
  Speaker 2: Jackson one first, the one, the reason. Because you ran it. Yeah, yeah,
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: gotta shut that. And then second is the one with
• 45:32
  Speaker 2: Angela Bassett. Remember the series? The American Dream.
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: The American Dream.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, okay. All right, got you.
• 45:39
  Speaker 3: The one with Angela Bassett was live. Yeah, those are
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: my two favorite Michael Biles.
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: And then your third one is Flex's. nobody watches the flex.
• 45:49
  Speaker 4: Watch the one I don't even think he danced in
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: that movie do you think there needs to be a
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: part two of Michael.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah I believe there is gonna be one from what
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: I know I told y'all y'all already working remember you
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: broke it you.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Said Charlamagne doesn't think there should be one I think
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: there should be one.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: Do you think there should well I think yeah you
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: know why.
• 46:08
  Speaker 3: Cause my favorite music video of all time is Smooth
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: Criminal and so I would love Javar went so crazy
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: he did like he went so crazy like I think
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: people don't know. Like they saw it, but like we
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: got to see it like behind the scenes and like
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: it was eerie.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: And I'm not, I know some people say that, but
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you as a diehard Michael, like I'm picky
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: on some, I'm picky about Michael and I'm like, I.
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: Would look over and be like, yo.
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. He was. Yeah.
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: So I just think there's other generations of Michael that
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: he's so great at playing his uncle that apart to,
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: of like, remember the time?
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying? Wherever they go with it.
• 46:48
  Speaker 6: But you talking about all the feel-good music stuff, people
• 46:50
  Speaker 6: want part twos for like, they want to get into
• 46:52
  Speaker 6: the other stuff.
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, they want to get caught up in what should
• 46:55
  Speaker 3: be in the part two. Well, I mean, that's up
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: to Antoine Fuqua, the director. You know what I'm saying? Like,
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: you know, I think either way, part two will be
• 47:03
  Speaker 3: received really well because the people want it. You got
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: to give the people what they want.
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: And it ended too early.
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: There was a lot of hits we didn't get to
• 47:10
  Speaker 5: see him perform and things like that.
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: Like you just said. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: I think they left room for it to be there.
• 47:17
  Speaker 4: I just got two more questions about the film.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah, of course.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: I sometimes feel like there's a danger when artists want
• 47:24
  Speaker 4: to turn trauma into art because the pain can.
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: Become productive, right?
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: Have you ever had to make sure you weren't holding
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: on to something just because it was creatively useful?
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I think like as cathartic
• 47:41
  Speaker 3: as the work is, you know, I, you know, a
• 47:44
  Speaker 3: lot of things that if I can't get out, cause
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: sometimes some people think that like, um, you know, like
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: they go, Oh, well when I, when I'm depressed, I
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: write music or when I'm anxious, I dance like, and
• 47:56
  Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, art serves as a healer, but
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: I also am an advocate for like other forms of therapy.
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: You know, I have a therapist that I talked to
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: twice a month that, some things that I can't get
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: out that the movement can't get out or the writing
• 48:09
  Speaker 3: can't get out or the directing can't get out.
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I like talk it out with her.
• 48:13
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? Cause there's, there's, I'll be honest.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: Like when I was telling y'all about that, living in
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: a one bedroom apartment, there's traumas that still are stored
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: in my body from that time period. You know what
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: I'm saying? Like living like that was crazy. And I
• 48:26
  Speaker 3: think like it also formed a, I was such an
• 48:31
  Speaker 3: outcast with what I was doing at the time in L.A.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: it played this, it made this like, created this mindset
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: of needing validation. You know what I'm saying? Because I
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: really wanted people to respect my art. I remember I
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: did my first performance at carnivals, at Choreographer's Carnival, which
• 48:49
  Speaker 3: is in LA. And like my uncle was a heroin addict.
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: So I remember like doing a whole dance piece telling
• 48:56
  Speaker 3: his story you know i'm saying but no one was
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: doing shit like that at the time you know i
• 49:00
  Speaker 3: mean everyone's playing like top 40 stuff and drake or
• 49:03
  Speaker 3: whatever and they're doing their choreography and i'm up there
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: like doing a orchestra song telling my uncle and actually
• 49:10
  Speaker 3: actually it was curtis mayfield actually i took something off
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: curtis mayfield old album and did something and and people
• 49:16
  Speaker 3: were just blown away by it you know what i'm
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: saying but also like kind of like what is he
• 49:19
  Speaker 3: doing so those years pent up a lot of trauma
• 49:24
  Speaker 3: a lot of like wanting people to respect what I'm
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: doing and I'm still trying to completely love who I
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: am as an artist fully without needing people to say
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: yo you tight you know what I'm saying and like
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Most people won't admit that, but I know deep down
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: it's there and I know where it comes from, but
• 49:42
  Speaker 3: I'm working through it.
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: This is my last question. Who are you trying to,
• 49:45
  Speaker 2: I guess, save when you made this movie? Was it
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: for you? Was it, you know, just to pay homage
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: to your friend? Was it the audience?
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: Like, I think it was all three, Charlamagne. I think
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: it was all three. I think there was a part
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: of me who needed it. There was a part of
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: me who wanted to see other people heal from it.
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: And I mean, I've done screenings everywhere, LA, Vegas, um, um,
• 50:07
  Speaker 3: And everywhere I go, people come up to me and
• 50:10
  Speaker 3: like with the most powerful things, you almost got.
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: To be prepared to hear people's deepest like traumas.
• 50:17
  Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying? Like I had to like
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: prepare myself for that. Like a dude came up to
• 50:20
  Speaker 3: me and was like, I haven't talked about this since Vietnam.
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: He talks about how like he was, him and his
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: friend were on a tour of Vietnam out there really
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: in war zone. And like, he felt his friend passed
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: away and it was his fault. You know what I'm saying?
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: And like hearing that from a, 70 some year old man,
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: 60 some year old man. And like, he's coming up
• 50:40
  Speaker 3: to me and like, I haven't spoke about that since then,
• 50:42
  Speaker 3: but my, your film made me want to come talk
• 50:45
  Speaker 3: to you about it.
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: So to me, it's that cultural currency. It's the shit
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: you can't put a value on. You know what I'm saying?
• 50:51
  Speaker 2: Like those are the, that was, that's the real win.
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: The Oscar qualifiers is great.
• 50:55
  Speaker 3: And yeah, we want to do as many of those
• 50:57
  Speaker 3: as we can, but hearing people come up to me
• 50:59
  Speaker 3: and saying your art affected me in that way.
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: That's, that's the dub. All right.
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: Well, John Boogs, we appreciate you for joining us.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: No, I appreciate you for having me, man.
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you can follow me at John Boogs, J-O-N-B-O-O-G-Z.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: I'm that on all platforms.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: It's John Boogs.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir.
• 51:15
  Speaker 5: Love y'all.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Appreciate y'all. Good morning.