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Politicians Spar Over Healthcare | Political Capital Daily · Political Capital with Rob Shaw

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Speaker 1: Political Capital Daily. Well, good morning. Happy Tuesday to you.
1:19
Speaker 1: The day of the week. Nobody likes Tuesdays. It's the
1:23
Speaker 1: day after Monday. You're not even at the halfway point.
1:26
Speaker 1: What's the point of Tuesday? We forget about Tuesday. Tuesday
1:29
Speaker 1: doesn't exist except for today's show, which does exist on
1:33
Speaker 1: a Tuesday. What a great introduction I just did there.
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Speaker 1: Aileen Machel, former Deputy Chief of Staff.
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Speaker 2: Rob, you need a pep talk.
1:42
Speaker 1: I filmed myself in a bathtub crying for my latest
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Speaker 1: Instagram video. I don't know if any of the listeners
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Speaker 1: watch my Instagram videos, but as I was crying in
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Speaker 1: the bathtub about the election, I thought, ah, Tuesday. That's
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Speaker 1: a great day of the week. Anywho, Aileen, former Deputy
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Speaker 1: Chief of Staff to Premier David Eby is here. Thank
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Speaker 1: you for being here. We have a lot to cover off.
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Speaker 1: Just to cover, if you're looking at your today on
2:08
Speaker 1: the campaign trail, We have the B.C. Conservative leader, Lorne Dirksen,
2:14
Speaker 1: who will be in Vancouver at 10 a.m. for a
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Speaker 1: policy announcement. He was in Vancouver Island, Campbell River, late
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Speaker 1: last night back in Vancouver. B.C. Green leader, Emily Lowen,
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Speaker 1: is going to be in West Vancouver, Sea to Sky,
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Speaker 1: where the incumbent, Jeremy Valeria, the second Green seat, is
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Speaker 1: going to be helping her announce a Green plan to
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Speaker 1: address health care in Squamish. And, of course, I get
2:37
Speaker 1: tired of saying this every day, the NDP doesn't want
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Speaker 1: to tell anyone what they're doing. So I don't have
2:44
Speaker 1: anything to share with you on the NDP until it
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Speaker 1: actually happens. But let's talk about the Angus Reid poll
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Speaker 1: that landed last night, Aileen, showing, I guess, a tightening
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Speaker 1: of the race a little bit. You have the Conservatives
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Speaker 1: at 48%, the NDP at 43%. They are both up
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Speaker 1: from the last poll on September 24th. Still a five-point lead.
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Speaker 1: For the Conservatives, the Greens have shrunk to 7%, and
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Speaker 1: Other has shrunk from 10% to 2%. So that presumably
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Speaker 1: is centre BC and one BC. So you see gains
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Speaker 1: for the NDP and Conservatives and a loss for everyone else.
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Speaker 1: What do you think of this?
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Speaker 2: Well, different polls show different things. And when you compare
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Speaker 2: it to some of the other recent polls in recent days,
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Speaker 2: they've shown a bit of a closer race. you know,
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Speaker 2: within one or two points for the two major parties,
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Speaker 2: the BC NDP and the BC Conservatives. I think looking
3:42
Speaker 2: at a poll like this for a campaign, it may,
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Speaker 2: you know, contribute to their volunteer effort because they'll be
3:52
Speaker 2: looking at a close race and trying to get their
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Speaker 2: volunteers out and getting people engaged. And I think, you know,
3:59
Speaker 2: when you look at the volunteer base, for example, that
4:01
Speaker 2: the NDP has, they have a huge volunteer base. A
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Speaker 2: lot of people that go out canvassing, going door to door,
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Speaker 2: and other things. And so I think close polling numbers
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Speaker 2: help to get those volunteers out, especially when the stakes
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Speaker 2: are this high. So it really motivates volunteers who don't
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Speaker 2: want to see conservative government get in. I suspect it's
4:21
Speaker 2: probably the same on the other side as well. I
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Speaker 2: think the other thing that sort of stood out to
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Speaker 2: me in the Angus Reid poll was the leadership question,
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Speaker 2: because Again, some of the other publicly available polls have
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Speaker 2: shown David ahead. There was the Leger one that had
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Speaker 2: his approval number around 39. Up above Dirksen, same goes
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Speaker 2: for Liaison, which had him around 38. So yeah, we'll
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Speaker 2: see how the polls continue to shape up in the
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Speaker 2: days ahead, and we'll see if there's any other publicly
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Speaker 2: available ones soon.
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Speaker 1: I think this one had Dirksen at 36 to EB33
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Speaker 1: in the question of who's the best, who would be
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Speaker 1: best premier. But it also has a whole bunch of
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Speaker 1: people still uncertain of who they would support, although they're
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Speaker 1: kind of firming up a little bit on that. And
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Speaker 1: then an interesting one, 31% of people said they think
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Speaker 1: neither the NDP nor the Conservative leaders are the best
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Speaker 1: to lead the province. But this one I want to
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Speaker 1: ask you about because it leads into another question that
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Speaker 1: we have about sort of campaign strategy here on this week.
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Speaker 1: Only 10% of people in the Angus Reid poll said
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Speaker 1: that Donald Trump, the U.S. tariffs, and the U.S. alcohol
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Speaker 1: ban was their most important issue behind cost of living,
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Speaker 1: health care, economy, jobs, housing, deficit, public safety, opioid crisis,
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Speaker 1: climate change, poverty, and DRIPA, and then Trump. And I
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Speaker 1: wonder what you make of that and the language we
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Speaker 1: heard from Eby at his event on Monday as well.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I did notice that he didn't talk a lot
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Speaker 2: about Trump. I think while Trump may not be listed
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Speaker 2: as a top issue in this public opinion poll, it
6:05
Speaker 2: is an important part of the context that actually impacts
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Speaker 2: all of these other issues that are up at the
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Speaker 2: top of the list, including cost of living, because we
6:13
Speaker 2: know that the U.S. trade war caused by a reckless president,
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Speaker 2: Donald Trump, is impacting costs for British Columbians. And we
6:22
Speaker 2: also know that it's threatening jobs. We hear about the
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Speaker 2: attacks and the impacts that it's had on BC's forestry workers,
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Speaker 2: for example. So those issues like cost of living, like healthcare,
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Speaker 2: like housing, like jobs, those are always top issues for
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Speaker 2: voters in BC. That's been pretty consistent for many years.
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Speaker 2: But Trump is the context for why some of these
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Speaker 2: things may be put at risk or further at risk.
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Speaker 2: So I do think that it's still an important part
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Speaker 2: of the story. and the context setting leading up to
6:56
Speaker 2: the ballot box question. But you're right, it does seem like, well,
6:59
Speaker 2: last week, the focus was very much squarely on economic
7:05
Speaker 2: projects that were going to generate jobs. And in that
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Speaker 2: context of the Trump trade war, this week has shifted
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Speaker 2: pretty squarely into other topics, including health care.
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Speaker 1: And what makes this week important in your mind? What
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Speaker 1: are you expecting to see?
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Speaker 2: Well, it's one of the most important weeks in the campaign,
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Speaker 2: not just because two weeks into a campaign is when
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Speaker 2: people really start engaging and paying attention, but because it
7:31
Speaker 2: leads up to Thanksgiving. In my experience, it's often a
7:34
Speaker 2: time where family gets together or friends get together, maybe
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Speaker 2: over a Friendsgiving, and they talk. They get to actually
7:40
Speaker 2: spend time together. And in an election year, the conversation
7:43
Speaker 2: can sometimes get around to politics. So this week is
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Speaker 2: an important one for campaigns to land their talker announcements.
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Speaker 2: And we've already seen a a bunch of them over
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Speaker 2: the last few days. And the goal for the campaigns
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Speaker 2: is to actually save big announcements for weeks like this
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Speaker 2: that they think will be big enough news and actually
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Speaker 2: be able to punch through all of the noise out
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Speaker 2: there and end up being a topic at those tables
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Speaker 2: as people come together and talk with their loved ones.
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Speaker 2: Because when people get to hang out with the people
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Speaker 2: that they love, that's when these real conversations happen about
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Speaker 2: what matters most to them. We've also seen in other
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Speaker 2: campaigns in the past, in the lead up to the
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Speaker 2: Thanksgiving weekend, news breaking about questionable candidates. For example, things
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Speaker 2: that they've said or done that's offside with how most
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Speaker 2: British Columbians feel. And those are the kinds of talker
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Speaker 2: news stories that can make a huge impact, right? Like
8:36
Speaker 2: tying into that conversation that we had yesterday about the
8:39
Speaker 2: role of emotion in campaigning and messaging and advertising and
8:43
Speaker 2: the importance of people being able to know the values
8:46
Speaker 2: of held by the candidates in their riding so that
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Speaker 2: they can cast their ballot appropriately. So what I was
8:51
Speaker 2: thinking about yesterday is, you know, if you're a woman
8:56
Speaker 2: in a riding with a candidate who's openly against a
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Speaker 2: woman's right to choose, you might be less likely to
9:02
Speaker 2: support that candidate. And regardless of which riding you're in,
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Speaker 2: you might be less willing to vote for the party
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Speaker 2: represented by that candidate. For example, homophobic candidates are another example. Anti-vaxxers,
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Speaker 2: those are the sorts of things that'll be pointed out
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Speaker 2: this week on the negative side. But on the positive
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Speaker 2: emotion side, it's also a really big opportunity this week
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Speaker 2: for the campaigns to provide that hopeful, optimistic vision for
9:29
Speaker 2: the province that inspires British Columbians in such a way
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Speaker 2: that families end up actually talking about it at their
9:35
Speaker 2: Thanksgiving get-togethers. And these are the kinds of stories that
9:39
Speaker 2: tell a story about how we can build a bright
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Speaker 2: future for BC, how to help families actually get ahead
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Speaker 2: Do people see a good job on the horizon for
9:49
Speaker 2: themselves or their family members? Do they have a family doctor?
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Speaker 2: Do they think that they can get one? Those are
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Speaker 2: the sorts of things that people care about. And if
9:57
Speaker 2: you can land a really good announcement, that is a
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Speaker 2: talker on these issues, it'll make a difference as people
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Speaker 2: are talking around the Thanksgiving table.
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Speaker 1: Nothing like talking politics at the Thanksgiving table. You get
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Speaker 1: grandpa all riled up about politics. They're throwing the mashed potatoes.
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Speaker 1: Everyone starts crying. I wouldn't recommend it, but I do
10:19
Speaker 1: know what happens. Politics at the Thanksgiving table.
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Speaker 2: Good.
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Speaker 1: It's a very interesting point. Aileen, we're going to talk
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Speaker 1: about some other things coming up just after the break.
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Speaker 1: Airbnb for its support. Back to the show. Healthcare, a
11:06
Speaker 1: big topic on the campaign yesterday. David Eby, the NDP leader,
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Speaker 1: on a bit of the defensive over his tax increase
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Speaker 1: to the top two tax brackets and a new millionaire tax,
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Speaker 1: which the Conservatives described as a doctor tax, saying it
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Speaker 1: targets folks who earn more than $ 190, 000 who the government
11:24
Speaker 1: is trying to recruit into the province, doctors from Alberta
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Speaker 1: and the United States. The NDP countering by saying that
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Speaker 1: their doctor tax, which they disagree with, actually would still
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Speaker 1: leave doctors ahead because on average they'd get around $ 11, 500
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Speaker 1: pay increase from the new collective agreements and new doctor's
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Speaker 1: payment models. On average, yes, there would be an income
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Speaker 1: tax increase to them of around $ 4, 000, but they'd still
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Speaker 1: be 70 some odd $ 7, 500- ish ahead, even with that tax hike.
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Speaker 1: Here is David Eby on that.
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Speaker 3: You talked at the end there about recruiting more doctors
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Speaker 3: from the States to British Columbia. What do you say
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Speaker 3: to people that go, will they be disincentivized to come
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Speaker 3: up if they will be increased at a higher tax rate,
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Speaker 3: particularly if they're specialists making a lot more than the $ 190, 000
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Speaker 3: and will think twice maybe about these choices?
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Speaker 4: Well, first of all, it's important to recognize that even
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Speaker 4: with these tax changes, British Columbia will have one of
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Speaker 4: the lowest tax rates for medical professionals and all other
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Speaker 4: kinds of professionals in the entire country and will maintain
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Speaker 4: our status as the lowest income tax level for people
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Speaker 4: who are middle income in the province. 96% of people
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Speaker 4: in the province will not see any impact from these
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Speaker 4: tax changes. Asking people who have a little bit more
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Speaker 4: to give a little bit more during this challenging time
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Speaker 4: for the province and for seniors who are struggling with
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Speaker 4: not being able to get the shingles vaccine, for example,
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Speaker 4: that's the right thing to do.
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Speaker 1: Online, different economists pointing out that the new marginal tax
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Speaker 1: rate in British Columbia for people $ 190, 000 and over, this
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Speaker 1: doctor's bracket, will now be 5.5% higher than Alberta, which
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Speaker 1: could be a disincentive when recruiting from Alberta. And EB
13:17
Speaker 1: saying that that is not, in fact, a disincentive and
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Speaker 1: it's not going to affect recruitment. Over on the conservative side,
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Speaker 1: they were announcing a health policy of a $ 50 million
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Speaker 1: emergency fund to help pay for staff when a rural
13:29
Speaker 1: and other type of ER is closed, an expert review
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Speaker 1: on health care within 100 days of forming government, and
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Speaker 1: an emphasis, Aileen, we'll talk about this after the clip here,
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Speaker 1: an emphasis on not cutting health care in response to
13:42
Speaker 1: numerous suggestions from the NDP that they will. Here's Leader
13:46
Speaker 1: Lorne Dirksen.
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Speaker 5: The NDP has utterly failed in its primary duty to
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Speaker 5: protect you. A new Conservative government will restore the fundamental
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Speaker 5: promise of public health to British Columbia. We will build
14:01
Speaker 5: a world-class public healthcare system that is there when you
14:05
Speaker 5: need it. But first, we will maintain a rock-solid commitment
14:11
Speaker 5: to our publicly funded, universally accessible healthcare system. This is
14:17
Speaker 5: healthcare that I use, that my family uses, and that
14:21
Speaker 5: we will all use. And to that end, The Conservative
14:24
Speaker 5: government will maintain health care funding at the levels that
14:27
Speaker 5: have been approved in the 2026 budget. More importantly, when
14:32
Speaker 5: the Finance Minister starts to build the budget each and
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Speaker 5: every year, our first decision will be to fully fund
14:40
Speaker 5: health care. I want to repeat that because this is
14:43
Speaker 5: very important. Our first decision in every budget will be
14:47
Speaker 5: to fully fund health care.
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Speaker 1: Elaine, what did you think of that? I know the
14:51
Speaker 1: NDP have pointed to previous MLA comments from many months ago,
14:55
Speaker 1: one conservative MLA saying, you know, health care could be cut.
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Speaker 1: And they've extrapolated from that in every press conference, the
15:01
Speaker 1: conservatives are going to cut it. Dirksen trying to get
15:03
Speaker 1: out from under that with those statements there.
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Speaker 2: What do you think? Well, he's making strong statements, but
15:11
Speaker 2: he needs to actually answer some questions for British Columbians.
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Speaker 2: And as has been noted, he's not taking many questions
15:17
Speaker 2: these days. I think there was only four questions that
15:19
Speaker 2: he took at that press conference, and he's not taking
15:22
Speaker 2: follow-up questions, which reminds me a little bit of what
15:25
Speaker 2: happened with Rustad in the last campaign in 2024, when
15:29
Speaker 2: his handlers were kind of preventing him from taking questions
15:32
Speaker 2: that they didn't have very good answers to. And I
15:36
Speaker 2: think that on this one, the math doesn't really add
15:39
Speaker 2: up because he's saying he's going to create this emergency
15:43
Speaker 2: fund for ERs and also not cut anything in health care.
15:47
Speaker 2: But he's also saying he's not going to raise taxes.
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Speaker 2: He's not going to add taxes. And he's also going
15:54
Speaker 2: to tackle the deficit in the same year that one
15:58
Speaker 2: of his caucus members admitted the truth, which is that
16:01
Speaker 2: they think that health care is going to have to
16:04
Speaker 2: take the brunt of budget cuts. So if he wants
16:06
Speaker 2: to get out from under this, he's got to give
16:10
Speaker 2: some answers to British Columbians because these are serious questions
16:13
Speaker 2: and British Columbians do deserve to have the information in
16:17
Speaker 2: front of them when they have this important choice to
16:20
Speaker 2: make on election day about who's going to lead them,
16:23
Speaker 2: including on one of their top issues, which is health care.
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Speaker 1: The BC Greens over on the other side of this
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Speaker 1: continue to make big, interesting announcements, going after a wealth tax,
16:34
Speaker 1: a one-time wealth tax of 5% on somebody's net worth
16:38
Speaker 1: above $ 50 million, 10% above $ 100 million, 20% above a billion,
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Speaker 1: projected to raise an eye-watering $ 22 billion in the first year,
16:49
Speaker 1: and then a smaller tax on that same levels of
16:51
Speaker 1: wealth every year, generating another $ 5 billion that they say
16:55
Speaker 1: could be used to pay for universal child care, free
16:57
Speaker 1: public transit, affordable housing. I'm going to play this clip
17:00
Speaker 1: from Emily Lowen, because I think As I'm hearing her talk,
17:03
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, are we going to be hearing David Eby
17:06
Speaker 1: say these exact same words? Because he's almost there. Here's
17:09
Speaker 1: Emily Lowen.
17:11
Speaker 6: The ultra-wealthy make more money in one night's sleep than
17:14
Speaker 6: the average BC worker does in a year. While the
17:18
Speaker 6: NDP is taxing wages, we will tax extreme wealth to
17:23
Speaker 6: fund the future we deserve. The Fair Share Act is
17:26
Speaker 6: about ending the expectation that social services like health care
17:30
Speaker 6: and transit can be sacrificed to make sure the ultra-wealthy
17:34
Speaker 6: can accumulate yet more wealth. Asking someone with multiple homes
17:40
Speaker 6: and a massive stock portfolio to give a sliver of
17:44
Speaker 6: their wealth to ensure that British Columbians can afford an affordable, safe,
17:49
Speaker 6: and dignified life is worth the political will.
17:53
Speaker 1: Worth the political will and a lot of wealth bashing there,
17:57
Speaker 1: which occasionally I hear the Premier flirt with. the idea of,
18:01
Speaker 1: you know, the wealthy, you know, the C. Montgomery Burns,
18:05
Speaker 1: Jimmy Patterson types have too much wealth. And I just,
18:08
Speaker 1: do you think we're, do you think he's going to
18:10
Speaker 1: get anywhere close to any of the things that Emily
18:12
Speaker 1: Lowen is saying there? And what do you make of
18:14
Speaker 1: her language?
18:16
Speaker 2: I don't think that he'll say those things. I do
18:20
Speaker 2: think that it's interesting messaging from Green Leader Emily Lowen.
18:23
Speaker 2: I think What they're trying to do is stand out
18:25
Speaker 2: from the millionaire tax that had already been announced by
18:29
Speaker 2: EB and the BCNDP the day before. And their strategy
18:32
Speaker 2: does need to do things to stand out so that
18:37
Speaker 2: they have any hope of trying to pick up support.
18:39
Speaker 2: That's got to be their strategy. I have seen in
18:42
Speaker 2: public opinion polling that the Green support is fairly soft.
18:46
Speaker 2: In the Leger poll, for example, it showed 43% of
18:48
Speaker 2: their supporters say they're likely to switch their vote to
18:51
Speaker 2: another party. And so she's, you know, trying to be
18:55
Speaker 2: bold to try to hold on to some of those votes.
18:59
Speaker 2: I think Green supporters share a lot of values with
19:01
Speaker 2: the NDP voters on issues like health care and climate action.
19:04
Speaker 2: But when they are faced with this huge risk, which
19:09
Speaker 2: is a close race between the NDP and the Conservatives,
19:13
Speaker 2: I think most Green supporters would do anything to prevent
19:15
Speaker 2: a Conservative government. That's the kind of big risk that
19:18
Speaker 2: can actually sharpen the mind for a binary choice between
19:20
Speaker 2: the two major parties. and a question that will likely
19:25
Speaker 2: be in the minds of green voters before they go
19:28
Speaker 2: to vote. But I will be watching to see what
19:31
Speaker 2: more Emily Lowen says today when she is up with Jeremy,
19:35
Speaker 2: who is a pretty good MLA as well.
19:37
Speaker 1: I like him. Every election I've covered since 2013 has
19:40
Speaker 1: boiled down in the last final weeks to an appeal
19:43
Speaker 1: from the NDP to not waste your vote voting green.
19:47
Speaker 3: Don't do it.
19:47
Speaker 1: You got to protect the government from the hordes at
19:51
Speaker 1: the gate, whoever they may be. So I fully expect
19:54
Speaker 1: some type of appeal near the end. It would be
19:57
Speaker 1: nice in different times to have the luxury of voting green,
20:00
Speaker 1: but the vote for the greens is a vote to
20:02
Speaker 1: allow the conservatives into power is usually the messaging from
20:06
Speaker 1: the NDP. So I think we'll see that at some
20:08
Speaker 1: point soon.
20:09
Speaker 2: Well, in a really close race, it is an important
20:12
Speaker 2: question because those votes really do matter. Last time in 2024,
20:16
Speaker 2: there were a few ridings that were really, really close.
20:20
Speaker 2: And so if there are a bunch of ridings that
20:22
Speaker 2: are close again this time, those green voters who may
20:26
Speaker 2: decide to put their vote with the NDP instead could
20:29
Speaker 2: make a significant difference.
20:31
Speaker 1: It is, you know, the funny thing is, though, like,
20:33
Speaker 1: But I think, just my opinion here, the legislature is
20:36
Speaker 1: a better place with the Greens. You know, a couple
20:38
Speaker 1: of Greens there saying things that a large swath of
20:41
Speaker 1: the electorate, you know, around 10% of the public vote,
20:45
Speaker 1: upwards of 17% of the popular vote, but now down
20:47
Speaker 1: to around 10% feel in the ledge is not a
20:50
Speaker 1: bad thing for democracy. And they're often some of the
20:53
Speaker 1: most articulate MLAs. Adam Olson, Sonia First, I know I
20:56
Speaker 1: could see Emily Lowen being one of those too. And
20:59
Speaker 1: the binary choice threatens to run the Greens off the map,
21:02
Speaker 1: but the larger... democratic value of having the greens in
21:05
Speaker 1: the ledge i've always thought was um was was good
21:09
Speaker 1: uh but it's a first past the post system that's
21:12
Speaker 1: the system we got it doesn't always work that way
21:14
Speaker 1: it just works uh one riding at a time so
21:18
Speaker 1: we shall see uh what happens with the greens okay
21:20
Speaker 1: aileen thanks for getting up and being part of the
21:23
Speaker 1: show thanks rob Thank you to everyone for listening. Make
21:27
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21:30
Speaker 1: We've got shows all the way through this week, including
21:32
Speaker 1: on Saturday and Political Capital Prime on Friday. We'll be
21:35
Speaker 1: back tomorrow with all the latest in BC politics here
21:39
Speaker 1: on Political Capital.