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Transcript

Game of Thrones · The Art of Costume Podcast

• 0:09
  Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
• 0:11
  I'm most with Joy Glass of how stark.
• 0:13
  And I am king of the North. Spencer Williams.
• 0:18
  King of the North. Like everyone just throws that
• 0:21
  title around. I just figured I would give it a
• 0:23
  go. They do.
• 0:24
  They do throw that title around a bit.
• 0:27
  Hello everyone, welcome back. Today we are talking about Game
• 0:31
  of Thrones. Oh my gosh.
• 0:34
  I What a throwback. What a throwback.
• 0:37
  I'm so excited. Game of Thrones.
• 0:38
  I mean, this really is this show was the catalyst for the Art of
• 0:43
  Costume podcast. I mean, Elizabeth and I used to
• 0:46
  get together all the time with all their friends and do watch
• 0:50
  parties, themed parties, went to concerts.
• 0:53
  Yeah, dressed up, yes. I almost got a Game of Thrones
• 0:56
  tattoo. You did almost.
• 0:58
  I forgot about that. I stopped myself but it.
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  Was literally the first thing I was like, oh, I can talk to this
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  person. And I mean, we're going to get
• 1:09
  into it, but the costumes of Game of Thrones really were so
• 1:13
  monumental. They really inspired the Art of
• 1:15
  Costume podcast from a young age.
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  We didn't know it back then, but yeah, if it wasn't for Game of
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  Thrones, I don't know that we'd be.
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  It was like Lord of the Rings opened our interest in the
• 1:25
  costume design and then Game of Thrones came and was like, look
• 1:28
  at what we can do with it. Exactly.
• 1:31
  So we have a great episode today, but before I said on
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  social media that we actually have a huge announcement that we
• 1:37
  have to make. So I'm very excited.
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  You've all been listening to our bonus episodes over the years,
• 1:43
  interviews between me and costume designers.
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  And I'm happy to say that we are taking those bonus episodes and
• 1:50
  they're not really bonuses anymore.
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  They're just going to be regular episodes because we are
• 1:54
  announcing a new podcast which will be dropping about every
• 1:59
  other week, give and take called the Costume House with Spencer
• 2:02
  Williams is going to be my own kind of sister podcast to the
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  art of costume podcast where we continue to provide these
• 2:10
  interviews to you all. Just, you know, a little bit
• 2:13
  with its own its own spice, its own branding.
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  So you'll still be able to see it on the same channel if you
• 2:19
  listen on Spotify and Apple podcast.
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  Or if you go to YouTube, you'll be able to find the costume
• 2:25
  house episodes there, maybe in like their own playlist.
• 2:27
  But very excited. And the first one will drop this
• 2:31
  week on Thursday with our first episode is going to be with the
• 2:34
  Colleen Atwood talking about one of my favorite movies right now,
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  One battle after another, very excited.
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  So exciting you do such great interviews and I'm happy they
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  they have their own like little home now.
• 2:48
  Yeah, well, thank you. I'm very excited too.
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  And yeah, it's gonna be fun. So I mean, this way, I really
• 2:53
  feel like we're gonna be able to bring more content to you all
• 2:56
  because it is hard with our regular season too.
• 2:59
  You know, we do a lot of interviews and not actually not
• 3:02
  all of them make it onto the podcast.
• 3:04
  So this way we could really open it up.
• 3:07
  Yeah. And I'm like I can't always be
• 3:09
  involved because my work schedule but like.
• 3:12
  Our schedules actually hate each other, mine and Elizabeth.
• 3:14
  Yeah, I even got a new job and I'm like, this still isn't.
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  Gonna Yeah. So so I'm excited just more,
• 3:23
  more coming and you know, I there's some more things on the
• 3:26
  horizon as well too. So I'm very excited with that.
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  We have a big episode. Big, big episode.
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  Honestly, if we're being real, we should probably divide this
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  into like a miniseries of three different episodes.
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  But. You know, maybe one day we'll go
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  season by season and get even more in depth, but for now, it's
• 3:47
  not happening. It's not happening.
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  So let me just try to give you like a brief summary of Game of
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  Thrones for all of you that don't remember.
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  Game of Thrones was created by showrunners David Benioff and DB
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  Weiss. 9 noble families fight for control over the lands of
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  Westeros while an ancient enemy returns after being dormant for
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  millennia. Throughout 8 epic seasons, our
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  characters meet adorable yet hungry Dragons, attend many
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  disastrous but lavish weddings, hook up with siblings, fight ice
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  zombies and slavery, which is pretty cool, worship fire gods,
• 4:29
  not so cool, and argue over the world's most uncomfortable, also
• 4:33
  pretty cool throne made out of swords.
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  And that is Game of Thrones. Kind of.
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  Which took up about a little over a decade of our life,
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  summed up into three sentences. It's, I mean, this isn't even
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  coming close to what you will find in Game of Thrones, but you
• 4:54
  know, we got some of it in there.
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  Yeah, we gave it our best shot. We gave it our best shot, but
• 5:00
  you know who really gave it their best shot and succeeded?
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  Spencer. The costume designers of Game of
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  Thrones. The costume designers.
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  Let's meet our costume designers.
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  We have Michelle Clapton, who designed 65 episodes between
• 5:16
  2011 and 2019, and April Fairy, who designed 8 episodes in 2016.
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  For Season 6, you will know April Fairy's work from
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  Maverick, for which you got an Oscar nomination.
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  Donnie Darko, Terminator 3. Rome, Elysium and Jurassic
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  World. You will know Michelle Clapton
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  from Sense and Sensibility, the TV show The Crown season 1 for
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  which she got a BAFTA win, Costume Designer Guild win and
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  Emmy win. Mamma Mia too, for which she got
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  a Costume Designer Guild nomination, The Kingsman and
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  upcoming The Legend of Zelda. So stoked for that.
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  Also for her work on Game of Thrones, she got 8 nomination
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  Emmy nominations and won five. Yeah, Michelle Clapton is a
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  badass. First of all, I find it amazing
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  that she took a break from Game of Thrones.
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  Would be like, I'm gonna go start this little show called
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  The Crown, win all the wards and I'll be back.
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  And that's, I mean, I'm sure it's more complicated on than
• 6:30
  that, but on paper that's what happened.
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  Absolutely, absolutely. She was like, I've done so many
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  seasons of, you know, an incredible show.
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  I just need to like slow down, do something smaller.
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  And she came back with all her wards, like, all right, what did
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  I miss? And then also, I just want to
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  say, like, we thought about reaching out to Michelle
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  Clapton. We were going to, that was
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  always a plan. We've been talking about this
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  Game of Thrones episode for about a year now.
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  But then I start talking to people and was hearing how in to
• 7:02
  the work she was on The Legend of Zelda.
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  And I was like, you know what I like there?
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  She's in another country right now, working on this massive
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  film. I'm gonna leave her be, mostly
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  because we have a copy of Game of Thrones, the costumes, the
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  official book from Season 1 to Season 8 by Gina McIntyre and
• 7:22
  Michelle Clapton. We decided there really is.
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  I mean, she, she gave us the book, so she.
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  Was like here's the information you want, I have other things to
• 7:34
  do. Right, which I love.
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  I mean, this book is badass. We I mean, there's so many
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  costing facts in this. We're not even going to be able
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  to get through all of it. So we're only going to be going
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  through some of our main characters.
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  But I really suggest everyone goes and checks out this book.
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  I mean, it is so good. Elizabeth and I were laughing
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  for all the costumers out there. It even has centerfolds like
• 7:57
  you're watching, reading a dirty magazine, which it's just damn.
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  Like, you know, they're gorgeous.
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  They're beautiful. They will take your breath away.
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  Costume nerd centerfolds. I mean, look at that bot.
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  It's like damn, you know, so it'll work.
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  It's it's really good. So with that, like I said, we're
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  gonna everything from this episode is me coming from this
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  book, from Michelle Clapton's words.
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  And to start us off before we go to break, I was actually going
• 8:28
  to just read the introduction from Michelle Clapton because
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  she really sets the stage pretty quickly here in this book on
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  basically her entire approach to seasons one through 8.
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  Here I go. Yeah, story time.
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  I wish we had like a little fireplace in the Star Dragons.
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  When I first heard that HBO was developing in an adaptation of
• 8:53
  George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire novels, I immediately
• 8:56
  want to play a part in bringing a saga to the screen, not
• 8:59
  realizing that I was about to undertake a journey that would
• 9:02
  become to a compass nearly a decade of my life.
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  This brawling fantasy, with its epic scope and abundance of
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  characters and locales, was a costume designers dream.
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  The creative possibilities seem limitless and a little
• 9:15
  overwhelming, if I'm being honest.
• 9:17
  Yet from the start, showrunners David Benioff and DB Weiss felt
• 9:21
  that the series should not feel too fantastical.
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  So early on, we decided that there should be a logical reason
• 9:26
  behind every decision. The costume should make sense
• 9:30
  within the world and help advance and support a
• 9:32
  storytelling. It was at this point that I
• 9:34
  decide color would be our principal language.
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  My initial ideas grew up those early conversations with David
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  and Dan. I also began rereading the first
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  two novels, which provide a rich understanding of the enormity of
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  the world and the characters I'd be costuming.
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  I quickly realized that for me, the show scripts would become
• 9:51
  the most important road map from the books we took, the sigils
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  and colors for each house monks are and other important details,
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  but really we're setting out on our own path.
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  Along with the scripts, I found inspiration in the early concept
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  drawings of Winterfell that production designer Gemma
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  Jackson's department had created.
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  Those illustrations give my characters a home and
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  environment. The Starks, the clan whose
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  fortunes were at the heart of heart of the ambitious,
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  sprawling series, had to inhabit a castle and a dwell within a
• 10:19
  harsh and rugged northern landscape.
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  Their costumes need not only to keep them warm, but also
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  communicate their status and relationships to one another, as
• 10:27
  well as create a sense of community.
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  I immersed myself in research. I began studying how people
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  lived in various climates historically.
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  I looked at how they protected themselves from heat or cold and
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  enemies, which materials and trades were available to them,
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  and which colors of dye they were able to create.
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  I also explored the influence of religion on clothing, along with
• 10:47
  ancient ideas about beauty and accessories and the uses of
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  applique and embroidery. I looked at clothing from
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  cultures around the world over many centuries.
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  Japanese, Flemish, Siberian, Afghan, Iranian, Persian, and
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  Native American to name a few. When searching for inspiration
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  for armor, I focus on Renaissance, Byzantine, Samurai,
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  Ancient Roman, and Ancient Greek designs.
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  I studied folk culture and tribal mythology.
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  I collected imagery at museums, online, and books anywhere I
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  could find it. I was a magpie, taking relevant
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  elements from all this research and putting them together to
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  create a new look that would feel wholly unique to the show.
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  Nothing could look like it came from one specific historic era.
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  As I proceeded, my assistants joined me in research and we
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  collated our ideas. We began to mass all of our
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  reference imagery into mood boards for each area in Westeros
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  and beyond. And this way, I began to define
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  the looks of the Starks and the other major houses.
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  The Lannisters, the Targaryens and Baratheons, as well as a
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  Dothraki and the men who made-up the Night's Watch.
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  Each need to have a look, color, and silhouette that would speak
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  to their regional identity, but the characters also had to be
• 12:01
  recognizable as individuals. I thought about their inner
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  natures, their histories and ambitions, their values, their
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  morals, all would serve as an influence and costume.
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  When designing, I always try to reflect the situations in which
• 12:14
  the protagonists find themselves.
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  Just as we dress appropriately for each occasion in their
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  lives, so should they. If a war were coming, we would
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  armor ourselves. If we want to show pride or
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  allegiance to the cause, family, or country, we'd express this
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  through colors or symbols. As I mentioned previously,
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  colors incredibly important on Game of Thrones and decided
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  early on to use fabrics that we would, for the most part, die
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  ourselves. This way we would have complete
• 12:38
  control over the color palette. We then create a color Bible for
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  each location in the show. Color is really my passion.
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  It can tell you so much about a character, and that is the
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  introduction by Michelle Clapton.
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  You can see why Michelle Clapton did not actually have to be here
• 12:54
  for her to. Yeah, physically.
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  She lit like, yeah, she put everything we all wanted to
• 13:01
  know. Yeah, she's in this beautiful
• 13:03
  book. It's beautiful and her language
• 13:04
  is actually quite revealing. So as you can see, she really
• 13:08
  set the stage and we're going to talk about again and again, but
• 13:12
  color, symbols, the fabrics, it's, I mean, it's everything to
• 13:17
  her and it really speaks to the evolution of these characters.
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  So I'm excited to get into it. After this break, we're going to
• 13:24
  go through the three main houses, Starks, Lannisters and
• 13:29
  Targaryens, and then we'll do a couple honorable mentions to
• 13:33
  some of our favorite characters that we, you know, maybe don't
• 13:36
  want to read a whole bunch about but still want to talk about.
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  I feel like we'll have to talk about our thoughts and feelings
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  about the series, which I know Elizabeth and have quite a few,
• 13:47
  yes. And so we have a lot to get
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  into. So let's take a quick break and
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  when we come back, we're going to start in Winterfell.
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  Hi, I'll meet you there. All right.
• 13:56
  I have to grab my coat though. Yeah, it's a it's a bit chilly.
• 14:04
  Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
• 14:07
  I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
• 14:10
  show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
• 14:16
  of Costume where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
• 14:20
  T-shirts, mugs and stickers. Also, be sure to leave a like
• 14:25
  comment and subscribe. And if you're an audio listener,
• 14:29
  leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
• 14:32
  Now back to the show. Are you ready to head to the
• 14:40
  north? Hey, I'm always ready to head to
• 14:42
  the North. I mean, I remember watching the
• 14:44
  show and every time we were in Winterfell just felt like a nice
• 14:48
  homecoming until some some questionable characters took
• 14:51
  advantage of it. But but especially that first
• 14:54
  episode, because it's like the Starks have just such a nice,
• 14:57
  you know, family vibe about them.
• 15:00
  They're like, oh, look at us all.
• 15:02
  Yeah. And.
• 15:03
  You can tell that they all have like a real love for each other
• 15:07
  too. Before we get into some of the
• 15:09
  characters in the North, we do have a quote from Michelle
• 15:11
  Clapton, just talking about her approach to Winterfell and the
• 15:16
  Starks and the North. She says as the Starks are the
• 15:19
  preeminent House of the northern lands and rule over the region,
• 15:22
  it was important to me to distinguish them from the other
• 15:24
  families of the North. Although I want to elevate them,
• 15:27
  it wasn't my intention for them to appear superior.
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  This is not in their character. I chose to have them stand apart
• 15:33
  through color. The other people of the North
• 15:35
  wear mostly shades of brown. The Starks, however, have added
• 15:38
  shades of blue. So you're kind of, you kind of
• 15:41
  see that in that very first episode.
• 15:43
  It's a very blue tone. Very blue tone very and very
• 15:47
  like an icy blue, not like a sky blue, not an ocean blue, but
• 15:52
  like that very light icy blue, which also really makes them
• 15:57
  distinct from just every other family in the realm.
• 16:01
  Like everyone else, I feel like has very bright colors or very
• 16:05
  strong colors. The Starks are very subtle, but
• 16:08
  they're the Starks are also very subtle people.
• 16:10
  They're not trying to they're really not trying to do
• 16:14
  anything. They they honestly just keep
• 16:16
  getting stuck at the wrong place at the wrong time.
• 16:20
  And it just, it feels like the Starks are like, there to, like,
• 16:23
  take advantage of the land, you know?
• 16:25
  And also, as Michelle said, they're constantly trying to
• 16:28
  stay warm, which is why I see a lot of use of furs and whatnot.
• 16:31
  We have Ned Stark, who, you know, we're not going to get
• 16:33
  into too much, but he's just like is a picture of like the
• 16:37
  perfect Northern man that everyone wants to be and will
• 16:41
  continue to try to emulate throughout the rest of this
• 16:43
  season. The perfect Warden of the North.
• 16:47
  Yeah, he's I still cannot believe that first season when
• 16:50
  he died like that really just like took the nation, the world
• 16:54
  by the star like. Everyone was loving the first
• 16:57
  season and then when that happens, I think that's what
• 17:00
  cemented, OK, this is going to be a long running, successful
• 17:04
  show. We're going to get into it, so
• 17:07
  let's get to some of our star characters.
• 17:10
  We have two in particular that we want to bring up.
• 17:12
  The first one being Sansa Stark, played by the great Sophie
• 17:16
  Turner. Sansa, a complicated character.
• 17:21
  I actually am kind of a Sansa apologist.
• 17:24
  You are a little bit. I just feel like it was, yeah,
• 17:28
  she starts off a little bit of a brat, but the thing she goes
• 17:30
  through war, you know, leads to some decisions I feel are
• 17:34
  warranted and I support her rise to being the Queen of the North.
• 17:39
  I like her. I think her character
• 17:40
  development makes a lot of sense because, you know, especially
• 17:44
  when she comes to the capital 'cause it's like she was kind of
• 17:47
  raised isolated from the rest of society, really.
• 17:50
  Like in the North, this, you know, they're really a society
• 17:54
  unto themselves. But she knows she's going to get
• 17:57
  married off to some other Yeah family, most likely in the
• 18:00
  South. Yeah, and she was.
• 18:02
  She's excited to join the greater Society of Westeros.
• 18:06
  Yeah, she was very much raised in the image of her mother,
• 18:08
  Caitlyn Stark, being like, you are going to learn how to
• 18:11
  embrace her and you're going to get married off.
• 18:13
  And she's actually OK with it. She's looking.
• 18:15
  Forward to it, especially because she doesn't realize her
• 18:18
  parents good marriage is rare. A bit and and a bit complicated
• 18:25
  too, Michelle Clapton says of Sansa, the eldest daughter of
• 18:29
  the Stark family. Sansa starts out as a naive girl
• 18:31
  who desperately wants to be queen, but her romantic
• 18:34
  illusions are shattered once she leaves Winterfell to travel to
• 18:37
  the capital of the Seven Kingdoms, King's Landing.
• 18:41
  There she finds herself manipulated and victimized by
• 18:44
  the cruel Joffrey Baratheon, who soon goes from Prince to King,
• 18:48
  and his mother Cersei, who belongs to the powerful
• 18:50
  Lannister family. Sansa is hardened by these
• 18:53
  experiences and as she grows older she also grows shrewder.
• 18:57
  Hardship transforms her into a self possessed young woman who
• 19:00
  eventually returns to claim her rightful title as the Lady of
• 19:03
  Winterfell before later being crowned the Queen in the North.
• 19:07
  Yes, that really is her entire arc right there.
• 19:12
  And she very much, you know, even in her style gowns from the
• 19:19
  North at the beginning, she's really borrowing from the South,
• 19:25
  like the long sleeve, the long gown, Like it's all very
• 19:31
  Southern at first. But then she slowly, over time,
• 19:36
  kind of like, redevelops the look of her family, the look of
• 19:40
  being a Stark, and gets back to that, like that Stark black and
• 19:47
  fur that, you know, her father wore, all her brothers wore.
• 19:53
  And she's like, OK, like it's time to be who I am, which is a
• 19:56
  Stark. Yeah, I mean, she's forced to
• 19:58
  when she gets a King's Landing. I love some of those early, you
• 20:02
  know, clothes where she's wearing the the bright pinks and
• 20:05
  kind of the Lannister red. She starts excited, but then you
• 20:09
  just see, like, it really, like, she starts to feel drained of it
• 20:12
  all. And then, you know, after some
• 20:15
  of the horrible things she goes through, she goes into the stage
• 20:18
  called the Dark Sansa. Yeah.
• 20:20
  And you just, she totally goes. I mean she becomes a goth queen
• 20:23
  honestly. And she's also, like, in hiding
• 20:25
  on the run. In hiding.
• 20:27
  And it all leads up to, you know, after that horrible, you
• 20:31
  know, wedding to Ramsay Bolton, which I have to say, the wedding
• 20:34
  dress is kind of cool. The wedding dress is.
• 20:36
  Gorgeous. It's gorgeous, but also sad.
• 20:39
  And you're right, though, it all leads to like this, reclaiming
• 20:42
  her heritage, which is like what leads her, you know, but that
• 20:46
  kind of is what strives her throughout this entire series.
• 20:49
  It's like reclaiming her home, reclaiming who she was, who she
• 20:52
  was meant to be, you know, even if it's a little different.
• 20:55
  But she appreciates both sides of what her father gave to her,
• 21:00
  what her brother Rob gave to her, what her mother gave to
• 21:03
  her. She just feels like it is her
• 21:05
  legacy to make them proud in ways.
• 21:07
  So that's what how she reclaims her identity.
• 21:11
  And I think nothing is more strong of an image than that
• 21:14
  coronation gown that we see. I remember seeing this costume
• 21:19
  and just being like, you know, damn, that's a costume.
• 21:24
  Michelle, Captain ate with that laugh.
• 21:27
  Yeah, that's good. Even people that didn't like
• 21:29
  Sansa were like, yeah, she ate with that.
• 21:34
  I So Michelle Clapton talked a lot about the coronation dress,
• 21:39
  and I just kind of pulled out a lot of the main points because
• 21:42
  there's so much in this coronation dress.
• 21:43
  This is the genius of a costume designer who even the stuff you
• 21:47
  all don't see, it's there to really just add to the
• 21:51
  storytelling. And I've nothing speaks to it
• 21:53
  more than this dress. Michelle said for her
• 21:57
  coronation, I gave her costume that featured imagery
• 22:00
  referencing the events of her life.
• 22:03
  We're not just talking about like a season.
• 22:04
  We're talking about from season 1 to season 8 is all in this
• 22:08
  coronation gown. So here, here's the summary.
• 22:12
  The coronation gown. Parts of it are made from the
• 22:15
  dark Sansa fabric commemorating the first time she fought for
• 22:18
  herself and a visual link to Marjorie Tyrell as well
• 22:22
  incorporate some of those same like textures that were used in
• 22:25
  Marjorie's clothing, which we'll talk about later.
• 22:28
  The gown has a full skirt made from panels in the style of
• 22:32
  style of Catelyn Stark. There's an asymmetrical cloak,
• 22:36
  same shape as Aria of respect to her sister.
• 22:39
  The cloak attached to the neck pad is similar to her father
• 22:43
  Ned. The neck pad is embroidered to
• 22:45
  give it a fur like texture, Texture seen on a direwolf
• 22:48
  sigil, a nod to Sansa's brothers.
• 22:51
  The fur like embroidery travels down her sleeves and transforms
• 22:54
  into the Tolly fish scales as a tribute to her mother's house.
• 22:59
  It's beaded and embroidered with red leaves inspired by
• 23:02
  Winterfell's Weywood tree. The other end of the pad is
• 23:06
  finished with a beaded wolf's head to represent Lady, her dire
• 23:10
  wolf, which was, you know, murdered her.
• 23:13
  Cersei's wishes, which, you know, one of her low points.
• 23:17
  There's a cascade of black feathers as another nod to Dark
• 23:21
  Sansa, and the crown shows 2 direwolves supporting each other
• 23:26
  and is also a special tribute to Rob, her brother who has killed
• 23:29
  at the Red Wedding. That is all in one costume,
• 23:32
  everybody. And I really like that because
• 23:36
  it also takes from historically how Royals built symbolism into
• 23:45
  their clothing over so many centuries.
• 23:49
  I think the most recent ID example of that that most people
• 23:54
  will know will be Elizabeth the Second's wedding gown.
• 23:58
  Lots of symbolism built into it. And for centuries, that's what
• 24:03
  royal women did to convey messages without speaking
• 24:09
  because a lot of times they couldn't.
• 24:11
  But here she's like, OK, this is who I am, people.
• 24:15
  Yeah. It reminds me of like a piece of
• 24:18
  art that or like like cave paintings or something, just
• 24:21
  showing the progression of time and history all involved in this
• 24:25
  one coronation gown. It's it's really beautiful.
• 24:28
  It's has to be it has to be one of your like one costumes rule
• 24:32
  them all, you know, like it's just it's incredible.
• 24:36
  Another character I'm excited to talk about is, of course, Arya
• 24:39
  Stark, who has one of my favorite arcs in this series
• 24:44
  because she starts as this young girl who just, you know, looks
• 24:48
  up to her brothers, loves to practice with her sword and
• 24:52
  fight. She gets Needle for the first
• 24:54
  time. You know, she's she's a tomboy
• 24:57
  and she loves being around her brothers and her father couldn't
• 25:00
  be more different than her sister Sansa.
• 25:04
  And she goes on this arc that is just heartbreaking for so long,
• 25:07
  but to me pays off in the end. We also have that time in her
• 25:12
  life where she's in disguise and we have that great oysters,
• 25:16
  clams and cockles part which I. Especially because it's so not
• 25:21
  Arya. She's got like the little like
• 25:23
  buns. In the front and.
• 25:25
  The skirt. I think that's the last time you
• 25:27
  ever see her in anything resembling a dress.
• 25:30
  It's so good. Michelle Clapton talks about
• 25:34
  Arya quite a bit. She says the younger Stark
• 25:37
  daughter is a born rebel with no interest in sewing or marrying
• 25:41
  well. She longs for the life of of
• 25:44
  adventure typically reserved for men.
• 25:46
  Her most prized possession is her sword, a needle gifted to
• 25:49
  her by Jon Snow. Her proclivity for fighting
• 25:53
  saves her life early on and helps her set on a path toward
• 25:56
  realizing her dream of becoming a full-fledged warrior.
• 25:59
  From the moment Arya first appears on screen, she's very
• 26:02
  clearly the antithesis of her sister Sansa.
• 26:05
  Arya is a strong minded girl who idolizes her brothers and that's
• 26:08
  reflected in her costumes. After many dramatic sequences in
• 26:13
  this series, Aria has greatly changed, but her aversion to
• 26:16
  traditional feminine styles is not.
• 26:19
  Back in her ancestral home after many years, she adopts a look
• 26:22
  similar to that of the Winterfell men.
• 26:24
  Her instinct is to dress like her brothers and her father, so
• 26:28
  I designed a look for her that paired A quilted jacket with a
• 26:31
  long skirt augmented by needle hanging from her belt.
• 26:34
  Her colors are traditionally stark, warm blue, Gray and
• 26:39
  brown. After so many years living on
• 26:41
  the run and suppressing her identity as a faceless man, she
• 26:44
  is finally able to proudly proclaim her heritage again.
• 26:48
  Another through line of like, trying to get back to your
• 26:51
  heritage, you know? Absolutely.
• 26:53
  Especially like at the beginning, it's so sad because
• 26:56
  it's like her dad dies just when he's like accepting who she is
• 27:03
  and like helping her, you know, kind of be like, OK, it's OK to
• 27:09
  be who you are because he very much tries to be like, she's a
• 27:12
  noble lady. She's going to have to marry and
• 27:15
  do all this. And then he's like, you know
• 27:17
  what, you have some have a sword instructor.
• 27:21
  Like it's. OK, we're going to put this off
• 27:23
  as a long as possible because at the end of the day, I feel like
• 27:28
  Ned Stark was kind of progressive in that sense where,
• 27:32
  you know, he the Stark family is very old and he he wanted to
• 27:37
  break tradition where he could. He didn't always, you know,
• 27:40
  there's that moment where they have to like, you know, the man
• 27:42
  who deals the law or whatever must wield the sword or
• 27:46
  something. I'm butchering that.
• 27:48
  But the. Man who passes the sentence
• 27:50
  sentence should wield the sword there.
• 27:51
  You go, Elizabeth. I can't remember what happened
• 27:55
  yesterday, but Elizabeth will remember that quote.
• 27:57
  Neither did. I But I yeah, I remember that.
• 28:00
  Down to AD. Yeah.
• 28:03
  So I just. There's a lot of love for Arya
• 28:05
  from Ned, and Arya takes that personally and you see it
• 28:07
  through her costume. She just really loses herself
• 28:10
  after her father passes and she's on the run in disguise.
• 28:14
  That's a little boy. And by the time we get to the
• 28:19
  end of the series, you could really just tell that she just
• 28:21
  feels proud of who she's become after all these years and knows
• 28:25
  that her family would be proud of her even if they're not
• 28:27
  there, especially. Because like, even when she's in
• 28:29
  the House of black and white, like they literally try to strip
• 28:33
  her identity from her, like literally try to make her nobody
• 28:38
  and it's she's like, no, I am a Stark.
• 28:40
  Yeah, the costumes of Game of Thrones really are about
• 28:42
  identity through color, through sigil, through fabric and
• 28:46
  texture. Especially for these people.
• 28:50
  We're getting ready to talk about my favorite house, House
• 28:52
  Lannister. Lannisters, yes.
• 28:55
  I have to. I've always loved the
• 28:57
  Lannisters, especially. My favorite character
• 29:00
  unapologetically, is Cersei Lannister.
• 29:03
  I've been dealing with the repercussions of that for a
• 29:06
  majority of my adult life, and guess what?
• 29:08
  It's not changing. It's not.
• 29:09
  It's not. But let's just talk about the
• 29:13
  Lannisters as a whole, Michelle Clapton said.
• 29:17
  For most of the series, Westeros is ruled by the Lannisters, the
• 29:20
  preeminent House of the South and one of the wealthiest and
• 29:23
  oldest dynasties in the Seven Kingdoms.
• 29:25
  Calculating and ruthless, they are always mindful of what
• 29:28
  message their clothing sends to those around them.
• 29:32
  The Lannisters wear their wealth on their sleeves, projecting an
• 29:35
  image of authority and power that also serves to remind
• 29:38
  others of their vast fortune. For their costumes, I drew
• 29:42
  inspiration from the House Sigil, a gold line on a field of
• 29:46
  red. That design dictated my color
• 29:48
  choices inspired much of the dormant on the costumes as well.
• 29:52
  I decided that the Lannisters, especially the head of the
• 29:55
  House, Tywin Lannister, would never miss an opportunity to
• 29:58
  incorporate their sigil into their clothing.
• 30:00
  They are proud like. Lions.
• 30:03
  You know, I got to say, well, who after many years, what
• 30:06
  they're like costume reminds me of.
• 30:09
  It's very much like they're proud they have to have the lion
• 30:12
  on fucking everything. It's very like make America
• 30:16
  great again red, you know, like they just, it has to just be on
• 30:20
  everything. And it's like, we get it, You're
• 30:22
  a Lannister. We know, you know, you have the
• 30:25
  world's biggest gown. There's I'll include a picture
• 30:27
  of Tywin Lannister coming in on a horse and he has like this
• 30:31
  huge, like red gone with the wind curtain hanging over him.
• 30:37
  It's like, we get it, you're a land.
• 30:39
  Of gold, we're like, we get it. You own the gold mines, OK?
• 30:42
  Yes, you're proud. We know.
• 30:43
  We get it. You don't have to tell us, you
• 30:47
  know? But for that, that's also why I
• 30:49
  love them too. They're just unapologetically.
• 30:51
  They're going to have that shit on.
• 30:53
  They are. They absolutely are.
• 30:58
  And no character speaks that more than Cersei Lannister,
• 31:02
  played by the great Lena Headey. I still will never forgive the
• 31:08
  Television Academy for not granting this woman an Emmy win.
• 31:11
  I know. Yeah, she deserved it.
• 31:14
  She deserved it whether he hate her or not.
• 31:16
  She just always was on top of it.
• 31:19
  I'm going to start getting emotional talking about Cersei
• 31:21
  and laughter. She was the best.
• 31:23
  OK, well. You got me excited there for a.
• 31:27
  Second, I'm telling you. She was great, but she was also
• 31:32
  so evil. So evil.
• 31:34
  But like, all right, I don't get it.
• 31:37
  Unnecessarily evil, She. Was unnecessarily evil.
• 31:39
  That's the point. It's true, it's true, but you
• 31:42
  know I love an evil, evil woman. You do.
• 31:47
  So she also had, to me, has one of the most fun arcs, though.
• 31:50
  I mean, we start when we see her, when she arrives to
• 31:53
  Winterfell. Just like you could tell she's
• 31:56
  just visually, physically uncomfortable with what she's
• 32:00
  wearing. This is not who she wants to be.
• 32:02
  You know, like we said, that Lannister's love to have that
• 32:05
  red and the lion everywhere and she's stripped of that.
• 32:08
  And until her husband dies, she's pretty much out of the
• 32:13
  red. She's like wearing just anything
• 32:16
  but his his colors. But she's also like, well, I
• 32:20
  can't wear the Lannister red. So yeah, she's so uncomfortable
• 32:24
  and she's. Like his property, honestly.
• 32:28
  She is his property. OK.
• 32:33
  That's kind of. That's kind of the.
• 32:34
  Point Spencer Cersei is Robert Baratheon's property and which,
• 32:37
  by the way, Robert Baratheon sucks.
• 32:40
  So she's. The worst.
• 32:41
  So that's why I just. I get where she's coming from at
• 32:44
  moments in this show. Yeah.
• 32:45
  You know, she handles things in a way that I would say maybe we
• 32:48
  should just seek therapy first. Yeah, but she doesn't so and.
• 32:52
  Like, cuz like, from everything, it sounds like she went into
• 32:55
  that marriage being like, OK, like, I'm marrying the king, all
• 32:59
  right? And then he was just such a
• 33:01
  Jackass. Like and.
• 33:03
  She was like, OK, I guess I'll be evil then.
• 33:05
  Yeah, which I get it. So Michelle Clapton, obviously,
• 33:10
  I mean there's the whole center half of this book is dedicated
• 33:16
  to Cersei essentially because she there could be a Museum of
• 33:20
  Cersei and Daenerys's costumes. Obviously they could fill entire
• 33:24
  museum themselves, so Michelle says at the beginning of Cersei
• 33:28
  story. I use soft fabrics and softer
• 33:30
  colors for her costumes. Her early gowns, such as the one
• 33:33
  she wears to accompany Robert Winterfell in the first episode,
• 33:36
  we're all made from paper silk, but they were lined with
• 33:39
  metallic fabric. I like the idea that the paper
• 33:42
  silk is so feminine and insubstantial, but underneath
• 33:45
  Cersei is armored to the outside world.
• 33:48
  She appears to be soft and very traditionally feminine with the
• 33:51
  long flowing blonde hair. In reality, she's a sleeping
• 33:55
  lioness who is preparing for a coming battle.
• 33:58
  Yes. I thought that was a cool quote.
• 34:02
  I was like, she she knows that her time will be here one day.
• 34:05
  Yeah. And I mean, like, I don't, I
• 34:09
  don't think she expects it to be like as dramatic as it is.
• 34:13
  I think she really expected, like, OK, we're going to knock
• 34:16
  off Robert and Joffrey's going to be king and like,
• 34:19
  everything's going to be OK. She definitely wasn't expecting
• 34:24
  the Game of Thrones. Yeah, yeah, at least she does.
• 34:27
  Wasn't expected. The way she goes, the way it
• 34:30
  goes. Yeah, but she is prepared to,
• 34:32
  like, protect her family. Yeah.
• 34:34
  So once Robert dies, you see Cersei really, you know, once
• 34:38
  she becomes like the Queen Regent, she goes directly to
• 34:42
  that red, which I love. She feels very like, she feels
• 34:46
  very comfortable. This is who she's meant to be.
• 34:49
  But then as you know her, the King's situation in King's
• 34:54
  Landing starts to change a lot. Characters, you know, die and
• 34:58
  choke poison and whatnot. Yeah.
• 35:00
  Then Marjorie comes into the picture and you can see that her
• 35:03
  red colour starts to get like, a little bit more faded.
• 35:06
  Once she's like mother of the of the king King, you know, it
• 35:10
  starts to feel a little bit more faded, like she's there, but she
• 35:13
  feels herself kind of like slipping out of power in a way
• 35:16
  that she doesn't. Like.
• 35:17
  Which leads to another real sense of identity loss once she
• 35:22
  becomes captive to this very kooky religious sect.
• 35:27
  Yeah, a cult of King's Landing, which I will never forgive her
• 35:31
  son and Margie for Elaine, her end up in a situation.
• 35:34
  But she's, I mean, literally, you all saw the episode stripped
• 35:38
  to nothing. She's wearing essentially a sack
• 35:40
  at one point, and you could just tell she's been stripped of her
• 35:43
  identity. And that might be the most
• 35:44
  crushing thing of all to Cersei, because she is a proud
• 35:48
  Lannister. And she's just like a proud
• 35:51
  lady. And it's like that's not
• 35:53
  something in their society that should have been accepted.
• 35:57
  Yeah, totally. Which leads to one of my
• 36:00
  favorite episodes of all time. This is one of my favorite TV
• 36:04
  episodes, period. It is when Cersei takes care of
• 36:08
  business and one sell swoop. Yeah, where she blows up the
• 36:12
  Sept with everyone in it, which leads to her son also jumping
• 36:18
  out a window. Unintended consequences.
• 36:20
  Yeah, whatever. We we pick our wins.
• 36:24
  Yeah, it's just, to me, it's one of my it's one of my favorite
• 36:28
  costumes. And Cersei puts on like that,
• 36:32
  all black, and with the armor and the shoulder pauldrons, it
• 36:36
  just looks so cool. Michelle Clapton obviously
• 36:40
  talked about this costume quite a bit.
• 36:42
  She says Cersei starts to dress solely in black and cover her
• 36:46
  body completely, wearing long sleeves and high collars.
• 36:49
  This is a common trend amongst all the women who became
• 36:52
  powerful in Westeros as their stories progressed.
• 36:54
  They tend toward darker colors and more conservative attire.
• 36:57
  We'll see that when we talk about we talked about science,
• 37:00
  but also Daenerys and Cersei's case.
• 37:02
  She's also in a nearly perpetual state of mourning in this
• 37:06
  series, which is so true. Moving on to the coronation
• 37:11
  gown, she says the coronation gown was made from black leather
• 37:14
  and soap brocade with military style epaulets that projects
• 37:17
  strength. It's not red and gold because it
• 37:19
  was death that led to that led her to the throne.
• 37:22
  And she understands that this is not a celebratory occasion, but
• 37:26
  a solemn 1. And black was the only possible
• 37:29
  color for the costume. The gown is neither masculine
• 37:32
  nor feminine. It's cold and emotionless.
• 37:35
  Also works well with her cropped hair.
• 37:38
  I want her silver and gold crown to be an abstract recreation of
• 37:41
  the house sigil, so I designed a piece that simplified the laster
• 37:44
  lion sigil to just a few elegant strokes.
• 37:47
  The gown was designed to channel the style of Cersei's father,
• 37:50
  Tywin. They always had a difficult
• 37:52
  relationship. I think Cersei admired Tywin and
• 37:55
  probably loved him, but she also despised him.
• 37:59
  He refused to see that she is intelligent and capable.
• 38:02
  He dismissed her as his true heir simply because she is a
• 38:05
  woman and choosing to wear something linked to him.
• 38:08
  She is simultaneously honoring him and mocking him at the
• 38:11
  moment when she achieves the highest station possible in the
• 38:14
  Seven Kingdoms. Yes, that that and like gave me
• 38:17
  chills. Yeah, she was like, love you
• 38:20
  dad, but fuck you because it's true.
• 38:25
  Like a. Tywin's such an ass like.
• 38:28
  It's true, like looking at the three siblings, I love Tyrion, I
• 38:32
  love Jamie, but Cersei was the one most capable of making this
• 38:37
  thing is taking it from beginning to end.
• 38:40
  I just also want to bring up another costume that we see of
• 38:42
  Cersei's in the last season when she's kind of starting to meet
• 38:46
  everybody. Let's talk about this threat
• 38:49
  that's coming to the North. And we see Cersei show up in
• 38:53
  this like all metallic, almost looks like chainmail and seen
• 38:57
  the back texture. You almost like see the spine.
• 39:00
  And I just, I love that costume that's so kind of spooky because
• 39:04
  it just feels like she's so dead on the inside.
• 39:07
  Because she. Is And Michelle Clapton totally
• 39:10
  agrees. She says when she wore that coat
• 39:12
  over the metal dress, we realized it created strange
• 39:15
  optical illusion. If you look at the detailing on
• 39:18
  the back too long, it seems as though you're peering directly
• 39:21
  into Cersei through her rib cage and seeing only blackness there.
• 39:25
  You know what it reminds me of? Like TV static?
• 39:29
  Yeah, yeah. There's just nothing.
• 39:30
  Nothing, Nothing happening. Earth to Cersei.
• 39:33
  Nothing there, nothing. She's just full on rage at this
• 39:36
  point. She is.
• 39:39
  I love that scene because she's just like, who are all few
• 39:41
  people? And I think the if I remember
• 39:44
  correctly, the rage was also seeing her brother Tyrion.
• 39:46
  Oh yeah, and. Him just.
• 39:48
  Being like girl, please, just like.
• 39:51
  Please just. Listen for two seconds.
• 39:55
  Just straight fuming. Which leads us to talk to talk
• 39:59
  about the great Tyrion Lannister, played by Peter
• 40:02
  Dinklage, which is one of my most favorite characters in this
• 40:05
  series characters ever because he's just consistently cool and
• 40:09
  has a level heart about things. Sure he has his like failed
• 40:12
  moments but for the most part if we all listen to Tyrion we would
• 40:15
  have been in a better place. Absolutely.
• 40:17
  And he like always steps up like in the beginning.
• 40:20
  And I think through the whole thing, he like he doesn't care.
• 40:22
  He just wants to live his life. He's one of the many characters
• 40:25
  that doesn't actually care. He doesn't want power, he
• 40:29
  doesn't want the throne. He just wants to live his life
• 40:30
  and not be shit on by his family but he steps up every time he
• 40:35
  has to and it is like responsible and does his best to
• 40:39
  make good decisions. Yeah.
• 40:40
  He just wants to be seen as an equal, yeah.
• 40:43
  Which is what Daenerys does to him, which I feel like who leads
• 40:46
  to like a lot of the character growth.
• 40:49
  But the Lannisters could not care less about turning Jamie a
• 40:53
  little bit to a point. Jamie does care, but I think
• 40:58
  he's afraid to care as much as he wants to because he was
• 41:01
  always he was afraid of his father's opinion.
• 41:05
  And he's. And he's.
• 41:07
  His sister too well. He's he's sleeping with his
• 41:10
  sister. And she's not too happy about
• 41:15
  Tyrion. No, she's.
• 41:17
  Not Michelle Clapton talked about a Tyrion in her book when
• 41:21
  we're first introduced to the youngest Lancer sibling.
• 41:23
  He's an unapologetic reprobate who spends a great deal of time
• 41:27
  in brothels, but he's also gifted with a remarkable
• 41:31
  intellect and innate charm that helped him survive in a
• 41:34
  dangerous world. Despite these qualities, Tyrion
• 41:37
  is viewed with contempt by his father and sister, who believes
• 41:41
  he brings shame on their noble house as a laster.
• 41:44
  Tyrion has the resources to pay for well made clothing, so his
• 41:48
  costumes are made from fine materials.
• 41:50
  Red is a dominant color in his wardrobe.
• 41:53
  But over time, his allegiances shift.
• 41:55
  After unimaginable treachery, he becomes estranged from his
• 41:58
  family and leaves behind the house.
• 42:00
  So we're fealty to a new house and serving a conquering queen.
• 42:04
  So that essentially is his, you know, costumes in a nutshell.
• 42:08
  You see, he he still is Lancer, so he's still going to look
• 42:12
  good, you know, he's still dressed up.
• 42:14
  He. He likes nice things.
• 42:16
  Yeah, of course. I mean, he's like, I got the
• 42:18
  money. He's not.
• 42:19
  I'm not mad at the money. I'm mad that you guys don't see
• 42:21
  me as equal. Yeah, but then he runs away to
• 42:25
  Esso. So you do kind of see him put
• 42:27
  away the red as part of, you know, because that would reveal
• 42:30
  who he is. And he kind of becomes more
• 42:32
  earth tones until he meets Daenerys and then he just goes
• 42:36
  full black. Full, yeah.
• 42:38
  Full Targaryen black, which, quite frankly, those are his
• 42:42
  best fits. Oh yeah.
• 42:44
  Like Season 1, you're like, OK dude, Like get over yourself a
• 42:49
  little bit. Season 1, he looks like a early
• 42:51
  2000 frat boy. Yeah, he was giving like
• 42:56
  scooby-doo and I go to misses Spooky Island like it doesn't
• 43:01
  work. Yeah, but when you see him in
• 43:03
  that the end season, which is funny, kind of, I feel like you
• 43:07
  could see the wear of Game of Thrones on Peter Dinklage in
• 43:10
  that last season. Just looks tired.
• 43:12
  I will say like towards like, I liked how they let people age in
• 43:16
  this series because it's like it's extreme stress in these
• 43:21
  situations, even over a couple years.
• 43:23
  We'll do that to you because they do the same thing with
• 43:25
  Jamie. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:26
  You see, like some of these characters, like Jamie, like
• 43:29
  Tyrion, they're holding like the world on their shoulders.
• 43:33
  It feels like you could see it. Their costumes might be good,
• 43:36
  but they're also still a little tattered in ways that you could
• 43:39
  just see, like the grey. Everyone's so tired by the end
• 43:42
  of this series. Yeah, all the people that don't
• 43:44
  really seem to really care about being on a throne or not, those
• 43:48
  are the ones that seem to have the most weight on their
• 43:49
  shoulders. Yeah, yeah.
• 43:51
  Might I add, you know, it's not Cersei whoever looks tired.
• 43:54
  It's not Daenerys. Whoever looks tired, Sansa.
• 43:58
  Maybe, but you know, that's a whole.
• 44:00
  Well, Sansa. Grows up, yeah, she grows
• 44:03
  because she's a young teenager at the beginning, as well as a.
• 44:11
  Targaryen. Our queen denarius.
• 44:15
  Oh, I love Amelia Clark at the nearest Targaryen.
• 44:18
  There's just something about seeing a picture of young Danny
• 44:21
  here, just like, wow, what a life that we've lived.
• 44:24
  I know. I remember being young and
• 44:26
  seeing baby Danny and be like oh.
• 44:28
  Poor girl, She's poor girl. Talk about someone who makes the
• 44:32
  bath out of a bad situation though, yeah?
• 44:34
  Yeah, that's one way to put it. I love talking about the
• 44:37
  Targaryens just because they really control like the pace of
• 44:40
  the show. And now we have the spin off as
• 44:42
  well, House of the Dragon, which I love.
• 44:44
  The Targaryens are just an interesting character study
• 44:48
  through and through. There's a lot to say about the
• 44:53
  Targaryens, but I'll try to simplify it.
• 44:55
  The Targaryens ruled over to 7 kingdoms for centuries, but when
• 44:59
  Game of Thrones opens, their dynasty has come to an end, says
• 45:02
  Michelle Clapton, The surviving children of the deposed Mad King
• 45:06
  heiress Targaryen. Viserys and Daenerys are living
• 45:09
  in exile, having been ferried to the eastern city of Pentos by
• 45:12
  loyalists hoping to see the family restore to the Iron
• 45:15
  Throne. When I began to design costumes
• 45:18
  for House Targaryen, I actually used Viserys as a starting
• 45:21
  point, even though he's destined to be only a minor player.
• 45:24
  While Daenerys would become a central figure in a story and
• 45:27
  want to emphasize the Targaryen's regal lineage as
• 45:30
  well as their fierce, unyielding nature and unquenchable thirst
• 45:33
  for power. The House sigil, a red dragon
• 45:36
  with three heads on a black field, became the most important
• 45:39
  inspiration for the looks I developed.
• 45:41
  And I think that's true. Almost the same as how we were
• 45:43
  talking about the Lannisters. The Targaryens are also very
• 45:47
  proud people who will put the sigil on.
• 45:49
  Everything. And we if you all see House of
• 45:52
  Dragon as well, like it's the same there.
• 45:54
  Like we always got to have the red and the black and the
• 45:57
  dragon, which makes them different to the Starks who
• 46:00
  actually couldn't care less sometimes.
• 46:02
  Except for at the beginning, like they're very, they're at
• 46:07
  the mercy of their host. They're at the mercy of whoever
• 46:11
  is bankrolling them. And I love how they only have a
• 46:17
  couple of like, Targaryen pins. It's almost like, OK, we have
• 46:21
  like like 5-6 pieces of Targaryen jewelry that we have
• 46:28
  to split between the two of us and use very sparingly.
• 46:31
  And it's almost like that Targaryen pin is like a
• 46:33
  bullseye, too. In the beginning, it's like you
• 46:36
  can't wear this in public. They have to be very careful who
• 46:40
  they tell who they are. Well, also, well, their hair
• 46:42
  kind of gives them away too. Yeah, well, that too, right?
• 46:45
  It is beautiful hair. She I love Daenerys over the
• 46:50
  season cause like at first she very much just like melds into
• 46:54
  whatever city culture she's currently residing in.
• 46:59
  Yeah, I mean, no one has a bigger arc than Daenerys
• 47:02
  Targaryen, which, you know, to some people's displeasure, as
• 47:06
  we'll talk about toward the end of this episode.
• 47:09
  But Daenerys goes through that go, it goes through it, Michelle
• 47:14
  Clapton said. Denaris dramatic evolution from
• 47:17
  powerless outcasts of fearsome tyrant is one of the most
• 47:20
  radical transformations in all of Game of Thrones, and I knew
• 47:23
  is vitally important for her costumes to signal each stage of
• 47:26
  her journey. When we first meet Daenerys,
• 47:29
  she's a beautiful young girl who's completely under the
• 47:31
  control of her abusive older brother.
• 47:34
  It's nearly impossible to imagine the woman she will
• 47:37
  become. Viserys wants to marry her to
• 47:38
  anyone who might help him take the Iron Throne.
• 47:41
  In his eyes, her only value is her body, and he dresses her
• 47:44
  accordingly. I based Daenerys's first stress
• 47:48
  on a style I created for King's Landing that would be worn by
• 47:50
  all manner of characters, from market traders to handmaidens
• 47:54
  and prostitutes. Daenerys's second dress is
• 47:57
  completely transparent and held out the shoulder with dragon
• 48:00
  head brooches to represent House Sturgeon.
• 48:02
  This viewing dress was designed to make her peer essentially
• 48:05
  naked. She's a commodity being offered
• 48:08
  to the Dothraki warlord Khal Drogo in exchange for his
• 48:12
  armies. Yeah.
• 48:13
  So I mean, that really speaks to the beginning of Daenerys.
• 48:16
  She is a commodity, you know, she's just a, a high value piece
• 48:22
  of jewelry almost. Absolutely.
• 48:24
  And I love like, as a character, she's mentally checked out for
• 48:28
  the first like half of the season.
• 48:30
  In the beginning she's just like, so just going through the
• 48:34
  motions because that's all she knows what to do.
• 48:37
  Literally like. Because not she she her opinion
• 48:41
  has no value to the people around her so she's not going to
• 48:43
  give it. It's just going to make her
• 48:45
  brother mad and make him hurt her.
• 48:48
  So yeah, she like the way she is so mentally checked out until
• 48:54
  she gets a little bit of freedom with the Dothraki.
• 48:57
  Which is crazy because they are so patriarchal.
• 49:00
  Like, yeah, it's, it's it's incredible the way that her
• 49:04
  story really turns out. So as we start to get into, you
• 49:09
  know, SO some Marine, you kind of start to see her, you know,
• 49:13
  like you said, she really acclimates to the world that
• 49:16
  she's in until she's on her way into Restauros.
• 49:19
  That's when we really start to see the evolution take hold.
• 49:23
  Michelle says Daenerys's time in Marine ends when she's nearly
• 49:26
  assassinated by damask insurgents known as the Sons of
• 49:29
  the Harpy. She escapes on her dragon Drogon
• 49:32
  and eventually forms alliances that gives her fleet she needs
• 49:35
  to carry her armies to the Seven Kingdoms to pursue the Iron
• 49:38
  Throne. The gown she wears as she sails
• 49:40
  to Westeros marks another major step in her personal evolution.
• 49:44
  During her conquest of Slaver's Bay, she has shown that she can
• 49:47
  be calculating and vengeful in dealing with those who dare to
• 49:51
  cross her, so her costumes become much darker in color to
• 49:54
  reflect a growing darkness inside her.
• 49:57
  I also want to begin to suddenly move her closer to wearing the
• 50:00
  black and red of House Targaryen.
• 50:02
  So I say that quote because I know we're going to come back to
• 50:05
  it when we talk about how the show ended.
• 50:08
  Yes, but it was there all along is what I'm saying.
• 50:11
  Yeah, it was there all along. And I love like these seasons
• 50:15
  where she's like going from city to city.
• 50:18
  I feel like Michelle really build up the structured style
• 50:24
  and then slowly overtime adds those Targaryen elements.
• 50:29
  And yeah, like, one of the things that is so beautiful in
• 50:34
  this show is the 3D embroidery. And like, it looks so beautiful
• 50:40
  on that dress as she's crossing over.
• 50:43
  And then once she's on Dragonstone, the fucking metal
• 50:48
  works. Yeah, it's so good.
• 50:51
  Like the scaled capes, like the point, the shoulder, like
• 51:00
  everything just very beautifully flows into her again, reclaiming
• 51:06
  her identity. Yeah, I love the use of scale
• 51:10
  throughout, you know, the whole history of Daenerys Targaryen.
• 51:15
  Michelle Clapton says about Daenerys.
• 51:17
  When Daenerys arrives in Westeros, she lands at the
• 51:19
  former Targaryen castle Dragonstone.
• 51:22
  For this sequence, I designed a fur lined overcoat for her and
• 51:25
  an even darker Gray that verges on black.
• 51:28
  The fabric I chose is patterned silk that has an interesting
• 51:31
  herring bone effect. In a certain light, it looks
• 51:34
  like dragon scales. I added a red pleated paper silk
• 51:37
  drape at the shoulder, which is held in place by a silver dragon
• 51:40
  brooch, and a chain that crosses her chest to denote status.
• 51:44
  I felt that she needed a weighty symbolic piece of jewelry that
• 51:47
  shows her strength and intent, and want to use a three dragon
• 51:50
  signal in the design of the chain.
• 51:52
  Now, leading a vast army of the Unsoli soldiers and Dothraki
• 51:55
  warriors, she needs to look like a military commander.
• 51:59
  Having that, you know nothing will get in my path attitude.
• 52:06
  Conquering for conquering sake like that is very much what she
• 52:12
  is about to journey she's about to embark on.
• 52:17
  Conquering sake is what she's really into at this point, which
• 52:20
  we'll see. There's one costume I wanted to
• 52:24
  point out. What we both did is when she
• 52:27
  puts on that very interesting white coat dress thing toward
• 52:35
  the end of the series, which I just I remember seeing it for
• 52:38
  the first time be like that is incredible.
• 52:40
  Like I've never seen anything like that.
• 52:43
  And I even I saw it in person too, I believe at the Fenna
• 52:46
  Museum. And I just was like, this is.
• 52:48
  It takes your breath away it it's so intricate and I'm just
• 52:53
  like, where did she make get this fabric made?
• 52:56
  Did she source it? Where do you source something
• 52:58
  like this? Well.
• 53:00
  Let's talk about it, Michelle. So Michelle Clapton says after
• 53:04
  Daenerys meets Jon Snow, she briefly sets aside her
• 53:07
  relentless quest for the throne and is drawn into the fight to
• 53:10
  save the living from an impending attack by the Night
• 53:13
  King and his forces. When Jon becomes trapped beyond
• 53:16
  the Wall, she flies to his rescue, a selfless act that cost
• 53:19
  her one of her beloved Dragons. Spoiler alert, I want her to
• 53:23
  have a dramatic look for the sequence.
• 53:25
  I dressed her in a white striped fur coat, which became one of
• 53:27
  her signature costumes. I chose white because it denotes
• 53:30
  purity and her motivations for coming to John's aids are quite
• 53:34
  pure. She's fallen in love with him.
• 53:36
  The silhouette of the coat also felt romantic to me.
• 53:39
  It's something she'd wear because she wants to be noticed,
• 53:41
  but it's also practical in the sunset.
• 53:43
  It keeps her warm. So I always thought that there
• 53:45
  was something insidious about the panning on the sleeves and
• 53:48
  remind me slightly of the White Walkers, and perhaps signifies
• 53:52
  that Daenerys can be just as cold and formidable as a Night
• 53:55
  King and his lieutenants. In the series final season,
• 53:58
  Daenerys wears the white striped fur coat once more, but there's
• 54:01
  a great deal of blood red showing through beneath the the
• 54:04
  white, an ominous harbinger of the blood she will spill in
• 54:07
  pursuit of the throne. Kind of freaky because you do
• 54:11
  notice it. Like suddenly you'd start to see
• 54:13
  red and that coat that wasn't there before.
• 54:15
  And I remember like looking up on the Internet as the episode
• 54:23
  just being like, wait, are these the same coat?
• 54:25
  Are these? I remember being very confused
• 54:27
  at first because I was like, wait, did they 22 almost exactly
• 54:30
  the same? Like what?
• 54:31
  But no, like it's the same. It's just.
• 54:35
  You start to see the road through it.
• 54:37
  And to answer your earlier question, the coat is made from
• 54:39
  a fabric that we created by mounting strips of leather and
• 54:42
  fur onto a canvas backing. We use a short pile white fur
• 54:45
  near the top of the coat and longer pile fur near the bottom.
• 54:49
  I want the coat to have a strong hourglass silhouette, so I made
• 54:52
  a shoulders wider to help emphasize Amelia's small waist.
• 54:56
  So yeah, it's a very intricate costume.
• 55:01
  I wish they had like shown her progression into madness a
• 55:04
  little bit more. But also, like, on reflection,
• 55:08
  it makes sense 'cause she, throughout the whole series, she
• 55:12
  really sees herself as a victim of other people's ambition.
• 55:19
  And, you know, it reflects the time period of, you know, when
• 55:27
  royalty believed, you know, and all costs were justified when
• 55:35
  trying to reclaim what was rightfully theirs.
• 55:39
  And when she goes crazy, it's just like, girl, what?
• 55:44
  But it's like, yeah, that was always there.
• 55:47
  Like she honestly, any sane person, anyone who really cared
• 55:54
  about other people would have sat back, thought about this
• 55:58
  whole situation and been like, you know what?
• 56:00
  I'm just going to let Westeros do what it's going to do.
• 56:04
  Like so many more people end up dying because of her quest for
• 56:09
  the throne than me too. Yeah, and we'll get into this
• 56:14
  when we talk about the ending of the show and once we finish all
• 56:17
  of our characters. But I do, yeah.
• 56:19
  I'd always take issue when people say like, oh, I didn't
• 56:21
  like the final season. Daenerys would never did what
• 56:25
  she did. And I disagree with that whole
• 56:26
  Harley, like, Daenerys. Daenerys's quest for the Iron
• 56:30
  Throne is selfish. Yeah.
• 56:32
  And she does it at the sake of a lot of lives.
• 56:35
  Yes. And should she have just been
• 56:37
  like, especially after watching the show House of the Dragon,
• 56:40
  you're like, oh, the Tarkins had their time, and they actually
• 56:43
  didn't do a great job with it anyway.
• 56:45
  They fucked it up. So maybe we could let someone
• 56:47
  else give it a go. I'm like, she should have
• 56:49
  stopped at Essos in Slaver's Bay, yeah.
• 56:52
  Because she had a good yeah, sure, everyone was trying to
• 56:54
  kill her, but like, she had a good thing going, Yeah.
• 56:56
  So, yeah, I think it was always there.
• 56:59
  I just think that that final season rushed in a way that felt
• 57:02
  abrupt to people. But if you actually sit back and
• 57:05
  look at her progression, this was always the direction she was
• 57:10
  going. Yeah.
• 57:10
  It's just that final lap in the race just suddenly was she would
• 57:14
  we were on turbo speed, Yeah, so.
• 57:18
  It's like especially when she kills Sam's brother and dad like
• 57:25
  that was unnecessary. Right, Yeah, it's, it's, it's
• 57:30
  pretty rough. All right, so let's actually go
• 57:34
  away from our main houses. We're going to get.
• 57:36
  Going back to the north. Back to the North, to the Wall
• 57:39
  and some of our other characters that are crossing over it.
• 57:44
  Michelle Clapton said the towery structure known as the Wall has
• 57:47
  stood for eons, protecting the Seven Kingdoms from the vast,
• 57:50
  untamed reaches beyond. Only the strongest can survive
• 57:53
  in this northernmost section of Westeros.
• 57:56
  A treacherous world of snow and ice or punishing winds blow
• 57:59
  across the Arctic terrain. To design looks for the
• 58:02
  characters living in this extreme environment, I
• 58:04
  researched the types of clothing worn in some of the coldest
• 58:07
  locations on Earth, such as northern Alaska and Siberia.
• 58:11
  I chose to use leather, fur and animal pelts for the costumes
• 58:14
  because those materials would offer the best protection from
• 58:17
  the elements. In fact, they likely would have
• 58:19
  been the only materials available to people living in
• 58:21
  the region. Yeah, so she really approached
• 58:25
  the north of the wall with utmost realism.
• 58:30
  But this also leads us to one of our favorite Behind the Costume
• 58:34
  facts. Honestly, this is the Behind the
• 58:37
  Costume fact that might have created the Art of Costume
• 58:40
  podcast. Because to me, you know, I don't
• 58:44
  want to say before the Art of Costume podcast, but like,
• 58:47
  costume design was not talked in a way that gave real credit to
• 58:51
  costume designers until I feel like Game of Thrones really was
• 58:55
  like a spoke in the wheel that really got the wheel going.
• 58:59
  Yeah. At this time, what 2011 when it
• 59:04
  came to when the world realized that a lot of the capes for the
• 59:09
  nice watch were made out of IKEA rugs.
• 59:12
  Like I remember this headline. Favorite facts ever?
• 59:15
  And it blew up it. Blew up so much.
• 59:18
  I remember like I think I got like it was like on a news app
• 59:24
  and it was like art section. IKEA rugs used in Game of
• 59:28
  Thrones. Like it was crazy, like people
• 59:32
  couldn't believe and didn't understand.
• 59:34
  And suddenly Michelle Clapton is like in the headlines, like just
• 59:37
  this didn't really happen for costume designers that much.
• 59:40
  Sure. I mean, you could look back and
• 59:42
  find, you know, interviews of Sandy Powells and calling that
• 59:46
  was before ATV show like Game of Thrones to be talked about
• 59:49
  costume wise the way it did was something unique like.
• 59:54
  Before this, you had to be like an Oscar nominated film, Yeah,
• 59:58
  to get people to care. Right, so we actually have a
• 1:00:01
  quote from Architectural Digest was talking about Game of
• 1:00:04
  Thrones. Michelle Clapton said these
• 1:00:07
  capes are actually IKEA rugs. We take anything we can, Clapton
• 1:00:11
  added with a chuckle as she described the progress.
• 1:00:14
  We cut and we shave the rugs, and then we added strong leather
• 1:00:17
  straps. I want the audience to almost
• 1:00:19
  smell the costume. That quote set the world on
• 1:00:22
  fire, and suddenly she was asked about it again and again.
• 1:00:26
  And if we were around, I would have asked to, yeah.
• 1:00:29
  This is why there's a book about all of her work.
• 1:00:32
  Which actually hilarious enough, I don't think the word IKEA is
• 1:00:35
  used in this book once. That's why we had to go to
• 1:00:37
  architectural. I would not be shocked if she
• 1:00:40
  got tired. Yeah, talking.
• 1:00:43
  About. It please stop talking about
• 1:00:45
  IKEA. So a character that we felt like
• 1:00:49
  didn't really belong to any such house and maybe aligns mostly
• 1:00:53
  with the North was none other than Jon Snow, played by Kit
• 1:00:58
  Harrington or some of you might know about as Aegon Targaryen if
• 1:01:01
  you really want to get into it. The black sheep of Westeros.
• 1:01:04
  Literally, and often times is dressed like a sheep if you want
• 1:01:07
  to get into it. Oh, hey, that's a good one,
• 1:01:11
  Elizabeth. I never thought of it like that.
• 1:01:13
  Yeah. Michelle Kaftan says Jon Snow
• 1:01:16
  grows up in Winterfell as a illegitimate son of Ned Stark,
• 1:01:20
  unaware of his true born identity.
• 1:01:23
  John's storyline takes him from Winterfell to the Wall and far
• 1:01:25
  beyond. He's a character who is very
• 1:01:27
  much a product of his extremely cold environment.
• 1:01:30
  I felt he'd be at home in dark colors and leather and fur,
• 1:01:34
  organic materials that would help make him become one with
• 1:01:37
  the landscape. When I designed John's first
• 1:01:40
  costume, I want him to look like the unloved sun.
• 1:01:44
  Thanks to Ned's wife Caitlin. When John arrives at
• 1:01:48
  Dragonstone, we see him in a new war ready costume.
• 1:01:51
  I gave him a brown quilted doublet as well as studded
• 1:01:54
  leather and metal plate armor that includes a silver gorget
• 1:01:58
  prominently decorated with two Stark direwolf facing one
• 1:02:01
  another. I did create one different look
• 1:02:04
  for him to wear when he journeys north of the Wall on a mission
• 1:02:07
  to bring back one of the Night King soldiers.
• 1:02:09
  It's a practical coat based on a costume that I designed for
• 1:02:12
  Mansur Raider, whom John actually admired, but for the
• 1:02:15
  most part, he is almost exclusively wears the Stark
• 1:02:18
  influence armor and the show's final seasons.
• 1:02:20
  I thought it'd be interesting to see John so clearly embracing
• 1:02:24
  the Stark House sigil at the same time as he learns the truth
• 1:02:26
  about his own heritage that he's actually Aegon Targaryen.
• 1:02:29
  The rightful heir to the throne again comes to confused
• 1:02:33
  identity. Wants to go back to like, I miss
• 1:02:36
  my dad, you know, and mom, question mark.
• 1:02:40
  I'm a Stark true through and through.
• 1:02:42
  Beth the day he's he kind of knows he's not.
• 1:02:45
  Yeah, he misses his dad and his siblings.
• 1:02:48
  And it's A and I'm also like, I wish Caitlin had survived long
• 1:02:53
  enough to know that, like, her husband didn't cheat on her.
• 1:02:57
  He was just trying to protect the last piece he had of his
• 1:03:01
  sister. Yeah, the way she would have
• 1:03:03
  begged for John's forgiveness. Yeah, she would have been
• 1:03:07
  distraught. And you're right, it does to
• 1:03:09
  this day, kind of haunt me. Game of Thrones does a lot of
• 1:03:11
  things that haunts you like, If only.
• 1:03:14
  If only. If only no.
• 1:03:16
  Gosh. Well, yeah.
• 1:03:18
  So John Snow just really, as Michelle Clapton kind of says,
• 1:03:22
  really sticks to his night watch.
• 1:03:24
  And then once he gets to the north, he's like, all right,
• 1:03:26
  well, I'll put this back on. Actually look like respectable
• 1:03:29
  member of my family, which he never was until they're all gone
• 1:03:32
  and dead and. They're like, well, you're king
• 1:03:34
  now. I guess one last character I
• 1:03:38
  want to bring up officially from Michelle Clapton was actually
• 1:03:41
  the Night King and the White Walkers, which to me was one of
• 1:03:45
  my favorite elements of the show.
• 1:03:47
  I'll never forget the episode Hard Home when we get to see all
• 1:03:50
  the whites for the first time. Yeah, that Barry Gower so
• 1:03:54
  incredibly puts together all these undead characters, which,
• 1:03:57
  you know, he went on to. Then he and his team are doing
• 1:04:00
  The Last of Us now. So you just really see that
• 1:04:02
  progression, the Night King, as evil and spooky he is.
• 1:04:08
  He looks great though. You look so cool.
• 1:04:10
  You look so cool. They.
• 1:04:12
  They look so cool, like they're just so menacing because it's
• 1:04:18
  like it's evil without a purpose.
• 1:04:21
  Yeah, just to ruin everyone's day.
• 1:04:24
  Literally. And you're like, what?
• 1:04:28
  Why are you doing this? Even when they try to explain
• 1:04:30
  it, you're still like, yeah. But I love it 'cause they kind
• 1:04:34
  of almost represent this, like the natural forces, like, you
• 1:04:41
  know, rain, fire, snow, like they're the amalgamation of just
• 1:04:48
  like all the natural forces in our world that just like, come
• 1:04:52
  for us and we don't even see it coming.
• 1:04:54
  It's almost like I almost like think of them like the story of
• 1:04:59
  climate change and how like the Earth is just kind of annoyed
• 1:05:02
  with how humanity is kind of disgraced, like, you know, like
• 1:05:06
  disgrace Westeros and Asus to the point where it's like the
• 1:05:09
  Earth is reclaiming back what it you know, and it's like we
• 1:05:13
  cleaning up house. Cleaning up house and it's like
• 1:05:16
  we kind of know it's there. We know like this could possibly
• 1:05:19
  be a problem, but we're so concerned with our own petty.
• 1:05:23
  Let's just put up this wall and it will be the next generations
• 1:05:27
  problem. Sound familiar?
• 1:05:30
  So Michelle says about the Night King.
• 1:05:33
  I had a difficult time imagining how how he possibly might have
• 1:05:37
  found or forged a suit of armor. After discuss with David and
• 1:05:40
  Dan, I suggested that in a Night King's journeys he perhaps
• 1:05:44
  discovered the ruins of some ancient civilization and
• 1:05:47
  scavenge pieces from that site. I want a costume to look as
• 1:05:50
  though he had bent pieces of old architecture or relics around
• 1:05:53
  his body to create something that isn't armor in a
• 1:05:56
  traditional sense. It looks as though he's begun to
• 1:05:59
  decompose because this character has lived for thousands of years
• 1:06:02
  and these pieces he wears will have been even older than that.
• 1:06:06
  The armor proved to be one of the most difficult costumes to
• 1:06:09
  create. I believe that.
• 1:06:11
  And she was like, I don't know, this character is crazy.
• 1:06:14
  Yeah. Especially when you realize how
• 1:06:17
  much, how much is practical and how little is, you know, The
• 1:06:24
  white watch, they enhance it with AI.
• 1:06:26
  They're not not AI. Oh my gosh, what is the world
• 1:06:30
  coming to? She meant to say CGI.
• 1:06:34
  They're enhanced with CGI, they're not made of CGI, which
• 1:06:37
  is so cool. And that brings us essentially
• 1:06:42
  to the end of our Michelle Clapton.
• 1:06:44
  I put the book away for a little bit.
• 1:06:46
  So we're done with that. But before we wrap up and play
• 1:06:49
  our fair game, I thought that we would maybe have some some
• 1:06:54
  honorable mentions on some of our favorite costumes that maybe
• 1:06:56
  didn't have a whole 10 minute segment dedicated to them.
• 1:07:02
  Do you want to go first? Who's some of your favorites?
• 1:07:04
  Well, I think First things first, one of the most
• 1:07:07
  interesting characters in this show who never really always
• 1:07:14
  knows who they are, but very much goes on a journey to be
• 1:07:19
  accepted for who they are, We have Brianna of Tarth.
• 1:07:22
  Yeah. Oh, Gwendolyn Christie.
• 1:07:26
  Yes, yes. Girl.
• 1:07:27
  I love Brianna Tarth and I love those early costumes where
• 1:07:31
  Brianna always had like this very interesting blue color that
• 1:07:34
  I just can't put my like finger. On it's like a slate blue.
• 1:07:39
  Yeah, it's really cool. It's so cool with the copper
• 1:07:42
  armor. Yeah, and just like such a great
• 1:07:45
  evolution too, of like I'll constantly want to be like the
• 1:07:48
  best. Well, why in a bee at night in
• 1:07:50
  general, because they weren't making women Knights at this
• 1:07:53
  time. So this evolution from like kind
• 1:07:56
  of like it feels like this is like Brienne's armor that's kind
• 1:08:00
  of been passed down as holding down as like this member of the
• 1:08:03
  Tarth family going to like being a knight and very much end was
• 1:08:08
  like a very satisfying arc. And this is my other favorite
• 1:08:11
  character, someone that I was like, if you guys kill Brienne
• 1:08:15
  of Tarth, I will be done off the show, even though it's not the
• 1:08:18
  truth. I love this character too
• 1:08:19
  because I'm like if Ned hadn't died, this is who Arya would be.
• 1:08:24
  Yeah, totally. Yeah.
• 1:08:27
  Another character that we have to bring up who has like a lot
• 1:08:31
  of behind the costume facts. So I I suggest you all get that
• 1:08:34
  book. Marjorie Tyrell.
• 1:08:35
  Yes, she was one of my favorite characters.
• 1:08:37
  Never re wears a costume. You're a Marjorie apologist.
• 1:08:41
  I'm a Marjorie apologist. Talk about a lady trying to play
• 1:08:46
  the game the best way she knows how.
• 1:08:51
  I her very first. Like the crossover with that
• 1:08:55
  that rose gold fastening the velvet shoulders.
• 1:09:02
  I cosplayed that. It's a good one.
• 1:09:05
  Well, the thing I love about Marjorie being a Tyrell is that
• 1:09:09
  she also very much is like proud to be of the House Tyrell and
• 1:09:13
  incorporates like the thorns of a rose in most of her costumes.
• 1:09:18
  I mean, there's that one that I could think of that has like the
• 1:09:21
  train of like roses trailing behind it.
• 1:09:23
  I mean, it's just Marjorie is stunningly beautiful, just
• 1:09:28
  loves. I love that she keeps up with
• 1:09:30
  the thorn. And I feel like she's kind of
• 1:09:34
  the reverse of Cersei. She's playing the Game of
• 1:09:39
  Thrones just like Cersei. But unlike Cersei, her family
• 1:09:43
  acknowledges her intelligence and supports her.
• 1:09:48
  And unlike Cersei, she does actually care about people to a
• 1:09:51
  point. Like she definitely puts on the
• 1:09:54
  show of care that a queen should, which is something
• 1:09:58
  Cersei never does because she doesn't care.
• 1:10:01
  She wants the power in the title, but she doesn't care
• 1:10:03
  about the people. And Marjorie is, like, very much
• 1:10:07
  what Cersei would have been had her father respected her and
• 1:10:12
  considered her more than just, you know, a marriageable pawn.
• 1:10:15
  I see Marjorie Tyrell almost like a Princess Diana like
• 1:10:18
  character because in ways she is playing the Game of Thrones but
• 1:10:23
  is approaching it from, like you said, almost an opposite to
• 1:10:27
  Cersei where she is approaching it with kindness and does care
• 1:10:29
  about the people and whatnot. But they're also in a way that
• 1:10:33
  like a Princess Diana used her own sort of armor was like her
• 1:10:37
  own dress, her own fashion as well too.
• 1:10:40
  And Marjorie's different than Cersei in a way that, like,
• 1:10:43
  Cersei's armor is literally like, you know, built up metal
• 1:10:47
  and lots of gold and like, these pauldrons.
• 1:10:52
  Well, Marjorie's is very much like, her armor is like using
• 1:10:55
  her femininity and these long, flowing gowns.
• 1:10:58
  And people see her in the streets, in herself.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah, People see her in the street.
• 1:11:01
  And it's like, oh, like, that's oh, that's our queen.
• 1:11:04
  Yeah. We.
• 1:11:04
  We like her. And like, that's one of
• 1:11:06
  Marjorie's strengths. It's like using that like
• 1:11:08
  profound love for her as like a step in this game, which she
• 1:11:14
  unfortunately loses. Yeah, you know who else loses
• 1:11:18
  Spencer? One of our favorites?
• 1:11:22
  Our boy Oberon. Oberon Martel, played by Pedro
• 1:11:27
  Pascal. We were fans.
• 1:11:29
  Out role his. Breakout role.
• 1:11:31
  We were fans of Pedro Pascal. We for all of you, he showed.
• 1:11:36
  Up on screen and we were all like hello.
• 1:11:41
  I love Oberyn Martel, first of all.
• 1:11:43
  I mean, Pedro Pascal has been acting long before, you know,
• 1:11:46
  like I think of like Buffy the Vampire Slayer and all these
• 1:11:49
  other roles. But Game of Thrones, I just feel
• 1:11:51
  like he really found his footing.
• 1:11:54
  Such a great character. And I love that Oberyn's whole
• 1:11:57
  thing. It's like he's like this hot
• 1:11:59
  sexy guy in Dorn and he just has like these very kind of like
• 1:12:05
  smokers jacket, almost like robes or you just you can see
• 1:12:08
  the. Sun.
• 1:12:10
  Yeah, he kind of like a Marlboro Man type look to him.
• 1:12:14
  And it's also like easy access. He just has to ungrape like this
• 1:12:18
  jacket because you. Always see his chest.
• 1:12:21
  Always, always, because the Martels and his I can't even say
• 1:12:25
  wife, just as like girlfriend, shall I say, hilarious he's.
• 1:12:29
  Mistress. Yeah, they're all.
• 1:12:30
  It's all about indoor and it's all about sex, honestly.
• 1:12:34
  It's all about being, especially.
• 1:12:35
  For them. Yeah, it's hot outside, so we
• 1:12:37
  don't gotta wear a lot of clothes and.
• 1:12:39
  They're literally staying out of brothel.
• 1:12:41
  Yeah, he's just. Yeah.
• 1:12:46
  I'll never forget the day I watched the scene where he died,
• 1:12:49
  though. Like that changed.
• 1:12:50
  That was horrifying. That changed culture.
• 1:12:53
  Yeah, I feel like that's like the second big shocking death
• 1:12:58
  after Ned or does. The Red Wedding would have
• 1:13:01
  happened already. OK.
• 1:13:03
  And this is still when Tyrion, Tyrion had just killed his
• 1:13:07
  father. So this is the trial to that.
• 1:13:09
  Oh, yeah. So yeah, it's like right smack
• 1:13:11
  dab in the middle. It's one of the shocking deaths.
• 1:13:14
  I still remember it. I remember I had a friend over.
• 1:13:19
  I kind of had a crush on this friend actually, but whatever,
• 1:13:23
  she knows this and I like made dinner that night and like this
• 1:13:27
  was the episode that was on that night.
• 1:13:29
  And then it like Fast forward to us like both being like
• 1:13:31
  devastated and in tears. I was like, well, this night
• 1:13:33
  didn't go as I imagined. You're like, I thought this was
• 1:13:37
  gonna be really. Much easier.
• 1:13:41
  That really changed the tone. You know who's not afraid to
• 1:13:45
  change the tone in a in a dark, dark way?
• 1:13:48
  Yo, let's talk about Melisandre. I always love this character and
• 1:13:53
  I always kind of attributed her to Elizabeth, actually.
• 1:13:58
  You. Have you have?
• 1:14:01
  I never quite understood that, but.
• 1:14:04
  It's like you 2 are similar in ways, but now that I've seen the
• 1:14:07
  entire series, maybe not so much Maybe.
• 1:14:09
  Not so much. I love her.
• 1:14:11
  The red priestess. They always, you know, have that
• 1:14:15
  thing on. Always just they stuck to the
• 1:14:17
  red. You could just kind of tell that
• 1:14:20
  Michelle Clapton, really. Understood the assignment.
• 1:14:24
  I understood the assignment, but I thought you could just say
• 1:14:26
  that about this whole series. But she really built up her
• 1:14:28
  costume it she didn't just wear like 1, you know, red shift
• 1:14:33
  dress an entire time. You she was trapped in these
• 1:14:36
  colors are red. But Michelle Clapton and team
• 1:14:38
  really kind of like, continued to elaborate it and make it feel
• 1:14:41
  more extravagant toward the end. Yeah.
• 1:14:43
  And also like, it's not like, oh, she's just wearing a red
• 1:14:47
  shift dress. She always like puts in some
• 1:14:50
  sort of like, you know, architectural like elements to
• 1:14:56
  all the gowns, even the simple ones because like you can tell
• 1:14:59
  like she has some beautiful lines on this dress and just
• 1:15:04
  perfection from start to finish. Just perfection, just like a
• 1:15:08
  majority of these characters and I believe just like this show as
• 1:15:13
  a whole. But we're going to get into and
• 1:15:16
  let's actually take a little break.
• 1:15:17
  We I'm a little winded, but when we come back, we're going to
• 1:15:21
  talk about quickly our final thoughts on the show.
• 1:15:25
  Give it a stitch rating and play your favorite.
• 1:15:29
  Game, Yeah. Let's do it.
• 1:15:34
  Spencer, Are you ready to give Game of Thrones your Stitch
• 1:15:38
  rating? I am.
• 1:15:41
  I actually have never been more ready for this moment in my life
• 1:15:44
  because this has been an argument between Elizabeth and I
• 1:15:47
  for as long as I can remember. Let's talk about the final
• 1:15:51
  season and Game of Thrones as a whole.
• 1:15:53
  And I'll make this quick. I love Game of Thrones and I
• 1:15:57
  think it is a perfect series. And I think up until like
• 1:16:02
  episode. So the last season is to me, not
• 1:16:06
  great because as Elizabeth and I, as Elizabeth and I were
• 1:16:10
  talking about earlier in the car, you could tell when
• 1:16:13
  everyone on the show, not just the show runners, the actors,
• 1:16:17
  everyone working on a show, they were gassed by the last season.
• 1:16:20
  They were tired. They were burning out.
• 1:16:22
  They were burnt out and I think that they that last season, I
• 1:16:26
  need, I think there need to be another season, yeah.
• 1:16:28
  But they just didn't have it in them.
• 1:16:30
  So that last season is rushed, yes.
• 1:16:33
  But I will not put aside the fact that everyone, I mean
• 1:16:38
  everyone was in love with this show, saying it's the best show,
• 1:16:42
  the most perfect show up until about episode 3 or 4 of the last
• 1:16:47
  season. Suddenly people are like, the
• 1:16:50
  show's garbage, the show's trash.
• 1:16:53
  Like, I don't like, no everyone. Suddenly everyone was up in
• 1:16:56
  arms. And I just don't think that's
• 1:16:57
  fair because I can't act like we didn't spend a whole decade
• 1:17:01
  acting like this is the best show ever created.
• 1:17:03
  So to me, yes, the last season butchered the ending.
• 1:17:08
  I think that they were on the right path, but I think that
• 1:17:11
  they need to give people a little bit more closure in the
• 1:17:13
  sense of, like, Daenerys ended up being a bad person.
• 1:17:18
  You know? I think we needed to milk that
• 1:17:20
  little bit more. I think Cersei probably should
• 1:17:22
  have been given a better ending. And I mean, as my favorite
• 1:17:27
  character, I wanted to see a little bit more than her getting
• 1:17:29
  crushed by a rock. Yeah, I think Bran being the
• 1:17:33
  king of the North probably needed more time to breathe.
• 1:17:36
  I think it makes sense as a character, but need more time to
• 1:17:38
  breathe. I needed more reunion between
• 1:17:42
  Jon Snow and his siblings, and maybe we could have fleshed out
• 1:17:45
  a little bit more of what Jon Snow's ending look like.
• 1:17:49
  So I just think that all the pieces were there, we just
• 1:17:51
  didn't give enough time to breathe.
• 1:17:53
  So for that, I think my stitch rating is still a 5 because I
• 1:17:56
  know that I spent many many years time about how this is my
• 1:18:00
  favorite show. And I think 1 bad season to me,
• 1:18:03
  like a bad three episodes, doesn't take away from the fact
• 1:18:08
  that this show really was doing its thing for a whole decade of
• 1:18:12
  our lives. So I am a final season
• 1:18:15
  apologist. Like I said, I understand it's
• 1:18:18
  not the best season, not even close, but like, we also had the
• 1:18:22
  siege of Winterfell, which, OK, sure, that episode was dark, but
• 1:18:26
  it was a cool ass episode. Yeah, cool.
• 1:18:30
  And when we see Daenerys destroy King's Landing, that's also some
• 1:18:35
  great stuff there too. So I just can't take away from
• 1:18:38
  the fact that this show was doing its thing to the very end.
• 1:18:40
  They were just gassed at the end and they just couldn't do it
• 1:18:43
  anymore. And that to me, just shows how
• 1:18:45
  hard of work they put into the show for so many years.
• 1:18:49
  Yeah, I I agree. So much of this show is so good
• 1:18:54
  people people let the last season inform their opinion of
• 1:18:58
  the entire thing a little too much as you know, I hate the
• 1:19:02
  ending. I have opinions on how Daenerys
• 1:19:07
  should have died. I I would have loved like if
• 1:19:13
  they had had this season just as it is, but then had another
• 1:19:17
  season where like Daenerys is attempting to rule and like kind
• 1:19:22
  of actually wrapping up all the storylines.
• 1:19:25
  There's so much that goes unfinished.
• 1:19:31
  I think that would have been incredible.
• 1:19:35
  But we don't have that, so it is what it is.
• 1:19:38
  I wish that we, and, and I'm sure people would have hated
• 1:19:42
  this too back then, but I wish that we took like a 2-3 year
• 1:19:45
  hiatus from the show. It ends with the siege of
• 1:19:48
  Winterfell or no, like when she takes over King's Landing and
• 1:19:51
  then we stop. Let's, let's take 2-3 years like
• 1:19:55
  like Elizabeth said, let's do House of the Dragon and revisit
• 1:19:58
  this years later and see what happened, you know, years later
• 1:20:03
  and give it, give us some time. I know the book's not out yet.
• 1:20:06
  But I just would like to think that there's just a little bit
• 1:20:09
  more detail in the ending because it did feel like they
• 1:20:13
  had like two seasons. Like gosh, we have so many
• 1:20:15
  episodes to do and they're like, let's make it 3 episodes.
• 1:20:18
  They. Also like the way it ends, like
• 1:20:21
  with the council and the like, oh, we're going to vote for our
• 1:20:24
  kings. I'm like, that's a little,
• 1:20:26
  that's too much modern thinking. Yeah, that just happened too
• 1:20:30
  quickly. So.
• 1:20:32
  So what's your stitch rating though?
• 1:20:41
  I think, I think my stitch rating is a solid 4.
• 1:20:46
  OK, 'cause like that last season is not great.
• 1:20:52
  I and I would even argue like the season or two before it.
• 1:20:56
  What cause like that speeding up of events.
• 1:21:00
  It starts at least the season before.
• 1:21:04
  That's not great. I don't think they put a lot of
• 1:21:07
  thought into how they were ending everybody's stories.
• 1:21:15
  And you know, they definitely don't tie up all the loose ends
• 1:21:19
  throughout the whole series. So a solid 4.
• 1:21:23
  You could feel it in that like the Season 7 that you're like,
• 1:21:27
  oh, we're like running out of like landing strip, you know,
• 1:21:30
  for this like, like the Nights Watch isn't even in Westeros
• 1:21:34
  yet, you know, and you're like, oh, we have a lot to wrap up
• 1:21:36
  here. So yeah, it starts to feel like
• 1:21:38
  it's spiraling out of control. We create something so big and
• 1:21:41
  now it's crashing to earth. We didn't have enough landing
• 1:21:44
  for it. But just to wrap up my thoughts,
• 1:21:46
  I think it's such a great show that had a bad ending.
• 1:21:51
  I think that, like the the exile of David Benioff and DB Weiss as
• 1:21:57
  showrunners, I think is a little unfair because the ending's bad.
• 1:22:01
  They should have got a slap on the wrist, which they certainly
• 1:22:04
  have. Yes.
• 1:22:05
  Yeah, you know, for them to like.
• 1:22:08
  What have they done since this? They did a Three body Problem on
• 1:22:12
  Netflix, which is actually a good show, but they were
• 1:22:14
  supposed to do a Star Wars movie and that didn't happen.
• 1:22:18
  That's right. Yeah.
• 1:22:19
  I think just about that. It's just a lot of, you know,
• 1:22:22
  like negative energy types of their names, I think is really
• 1:22:25
  just undeserved. Yeah.
• 1:22:27
  Anyways, let's play one costume rule them all.
• 1:22:30
  Let's wrap this up. Absolutely.
• 1:22:31
  Spencer hit it. The one costume to rule them
• 1:22:37
  all. All right, well, I think my
• 1:22:43
  costume is quite obvious. Cersei's coronation gown after
• 1:22:48
  the live of Seven, the destruction of the stuff of
• 1:22:50
  Baylor. I am so.
• 1:22:51
  Shocked. Yeah.
• 1:22:54
  I knew this before I even started the notes for this one.
• 1:22:57
  Yeah, that's that's my one costume.
• 1:22:59
  I won't even get into it. No MY1 costume, Daenerys's white
• 1:23:05
  and red fur with the chain. Like just talk about a turning
• 1:23:11
  moment. Talk about a turning moment for
• 1:23:15
  her. Yeah, especially I love now that
• 1:23:17
  we have this added fact of like the red seeping underneath just
• 1:23:22
  all the. Blood she spills.
• 1:23:23
  I feel like people should have listened to Michelle Clapton a
• 1:23:26
  little bit more. Yeah.
• 1:23:27
  She seemed to know how to end this show.
• 1:23:29
  Yeah. Yeah, she did.
• 1:23:32
  She knew what was going on, or maybe no one else did.
• 1:23:36
  And that brings us to the end of our Game of Thrones episode.
• 1:23:38
  I can't believe we made it. I have to admit, I was a little
• 1:23:41
  nervous about this episode. There's a lot to cover, but I
• 1:23:44
  think we I think we gave it a good go.
• 1:23:47
  We did. We absolutely did.
• 1:23:48
  And sometimes we get the critique of like, oh, you guys
• 1:23:51
  didn't really add a new behind the costume facts.
• 1:23:53
  We just gave you the book that has.
• 1:23:55
  All of them. Go buy it.
• 1:23:58
  Go. You know, people talk about
• 1:24:00
  print being dead. Go support.
• 1:24:02
  Print go. Support print media and Michelle
• 1:24:04
  Clapton and buy the book. We talked about doing this as a
• 1:24:07
  three-part series gain into all the characters, but.
• 1:24:10
  We talked about doing it season by season.
• 1:24:13
  Yeah, but I think we're going to leave it here for now because
• 1:24:16
  we're actually going somewhere quite exciting.
• 1:24:18
  Next, we're leaving Westeros for a more colorful place as we
• 1:24:22
  prepare for, you know, some upcoming stuff.
• 1:24:26
  Elizabeth, where are we going? Next week we are going to go on
• 1:24:30
  a little a little balloon ride to visit the wonderful Land of
• 1:24:38
  Oz with the original classic film The Wizard of Oz.
• 1:24:44
  We are finally going to be talking about the Wizard of Oz
• 1:24:46
  costume design by Gilbert Adrian starring Judy Garland.
• 1:24:51
  I mean, I'm very excited. I love talking about classic
• 1:24:53
  films. And obviously we're getting
• 1:24:55
  primed and ready for Wicked Season, which when this episode
• 1:24:58
  comes out, will be about a couple days before the release
• 1:25:02
  of Wicked. So you all know that's coming.
• 1:25:05
  I think we're also about to go on another rabbit hole of drama
• 1:25:09
  because filming of The Wizard of Oz laden with drama.
• 1:25:15
  And I love drama you. Do love drama?
• 1:25:18
  Thank you all for watching. Make sure you tune into our next
• 1:25:21
  episode, The Wizard of Oz. And also don't forget to check
• 1:25:24
  out my new podcast, which will be coming out on the same
• 1:25:26
  channel you're listening to this or watching called The Costume
• 1:25:29
  House of Spencer Williams. We'll be having Colleen Atwood
• 1:25:32
  to talk about 1 battle after another, which is a very fun
• 1:25:35
  conversation. And you know how I feel about
• 1:25:37
  Colleen Atwood. She is like my Taylor Swift.
• 1:25:40
  She is, she is she? Absolutely.
• 1:25:43
  Is e-mail us at theartofcostume@gmail.com.
• 1:25:45
  Let us know what your favorite One costume rule of Mall is from
• 1:25:49
  Game of Thrones. Follow us on Instagram at the
• 1:25:51
  Art of Costume Pod or TikTok at The Art of Costume.
• 1:25:55
  We still have a merch store at the Art of costume.com/pod
• 1:25:58
  Store. Winter is coming, so get your
• 1:26:01
  sweatshirts and hoodies. And as always, leave us a five
• 1:26:04
  star text review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify and subscribe
• 1:26:08
  to us on YouTube. Yeah, because there's some fun
• 1:26:10
  things happening here. You get to see fun pictures and
• 1:26:14
  little videos and whatnot. We we really have a good thing
• 1:26:17
  going over there. So with that, Elizabeth, we need
• 1:26:23
  a break. We need a break.
• 1:26:26
  We've got to go find the yellow brick road.
• 1:26:28
  Yeah, Game of Thrones is a little dark.
• 1:26:31
  I need something brighter. Yeah, some rainbows somewhere
• 1:26:34
  over the rainbow. Somewhere over the rainbow, we
• 1:26:37
  will see. You all have a fantastic week.