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Excuse My Grandma on Cozy Chic and Career Comebacks · Excuse My Grandma

• 0:00
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• 0:40
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• 0:45
  Speaker 3: Welcome back to another episode of Excuse My Grandma. It's Kim and my co hosts.
• 0:49
  Speaker 4: Grandma, get help.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: So Grandma, this morning we filmed so many outfit videos for social media. You've been, that's the best part about when I'm here in Florida because you get to help me pick out my outfits. I get to go into your closet and steal some stuff, which is always fun.
• 1:22
  Speaker 4: I know it's not, it's running out of stuff though, Kim. I'm gonna have to bring some more things into the closet.
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: We discover some old things that you forgot about sometimes. Yeah, I'm always ordering new stuff that you're like helping me decide whether to pick or to return.
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: Most of them are really not pickable.
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not the best at ordering. Like a lot of the time, obviously I'm wearing things that I would wear in my daily life which is all pretty like comfortable. Correct. I mean, even if it's like a corseted dress or something, I was thinking about all like the past of fashion and thinking we could kind of go through the generations and talk about how fashion has changed so much from being really uncomfortable to more comfortable today. But even today, like I lounge in leggings or sweatpants most days unless I have to see people.
• 2:15
  But like if you're lounging, you're wearing like slacks.
• 2:17
  Speaker 4: Yeah, usually wear a pair of nice pants. I don't like to wear different like little pants that are tailored and they look fine. And then when they get But how is that cozy? To me they're cozy.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Do you
• 2:45
  Speaker 4: think they're fine?
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: Maybe you're used to being even more uncomfortable.
• 2:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, mean, I get very, very casual, I'll put a t shirt on.
• 2:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah. That's almost casual.
• 2:52
  Speaker 4: That's really casual.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I definitely dress a little bit more casual than you do generally. I think But you like the sweatshirts.
• 2:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I
• 2:59
  Speaker 3: wear a lot of sweatshirts and leggings and whatever. But I was doing a little research about the history of fashion and comfort. And like the major factor in the like comfort is king trend was due to the rise of synthetic fibers which changed how people fit in their clothes.
• 3:17
  Speaker 4: And also washing and people were, it was an easier way to take care of their garments because they could wash them and pick them up on the line. They didn't need to have the pressing and the steaming and all that.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: So in the nineteenth century
• 3:32
  Speaker 4: Which I wasn't there.
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: Right. Neither was I. S shaped silhouettes with corsets and bustles were stylish, but obviously
• 3:40
  Speaker 4: Now you not only see that on television.
• 3:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And then in the early twentieth century, more comfortable styles emerged which really was influenced by sportswear and women's changing roles. Basically
• 3:53
  Speaker 4: getting part of being part of the electorate and everything else. They wanted more freedom.
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: Right. And then in the twenties, you know, it was like flapper fashion, which was the shorter skirts and the looser silhouette. So that was pretty comfortable probably.
• 4:07
  Speaker 4: I don't know. I think they were very contrived to all of it.
• 4:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it's now it's funny because it's like we get a costume from a store and we dressed 1920s, but it really was how people dressed. And then there's World War I and II which was like practical, functional clothing. Women were joining the workforce so it was essential. And then we have the 50s and that was really like Christian Dior's new look.
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: But that was highly styled. That was Paris and couture of people in America. That wasn't the normal. The normal woman in the fifties was wearing a house dress. Yeah.
• 4:44
  Know, they weren't all working and the ones who went to work went in probably just very simple little sundress kind of garments with a sweater.
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: The everyday wear. Yeah. The sixties and the seventies were like bohemian hippie fashion. Beetle time. But loose and flowing, right?
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: Yes. Well, that was also rejection to the war. So everybody was sort of a little bit in their protest mode.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so I guess we're bringing the comfort in there. Then the eighties, we have that athletic wear and gaining popularity. And that's sort of the rise of sportswear and athleisure. '90s, grunge fashion, also like kind of oversized pieces, the oversized jeans, It's all coming back
• 5:31
  Speaker 4: now again. Things cycle around. I think that's why people like to go to thrift stores. They can buy the stuff that was authentic at the time.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: Right. And then 2000s to now really, it has less of an identity in my mind. I feel like you're right in that we're kind of cycling, just trying to pick things from the past. That
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: we like, exactly.
• 5:51
  Speaker 3: Definitely like loungewear because of COVID and everything. Well, those
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: four years was strictly a loungewear moment.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but even now we kind of carried that through, I
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: think like Well, hopefully it's going away with now the return force, to the office.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: But I think you're a little comfortable at work too. Like if you think about the eighties and wearing power suits to now, like you're not wearing a tie and you're not. Correct. Most of my friends I'm pretty sure can wear like jeans.
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: Well, it depends what kind of industry you're
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: in.
• 6:20
  Speaker 4: I think if you're in the financials, they still wear slacks and
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: But they don't women's wear a dress.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: No, but they don't wear loungewear. They wear slacks. Yeah, they slacks like probably a jacket or a white man tailored shirt.
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Still have
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: to be
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: a woman. Dressed. So that's sort of the history of it all but I was thinking we could bring in an expert today. Sarah Fazelle who is a founder of a company that's all about ease in fashion. So let's bring her into chat.
• 6:49
  Okay. Okay, Grandma and I have been talking about comfort in fashion and how that's changed over the years. So we thought the perfect guest to talk to today would be Sarah Fazelle. She's the founder of Brave Pudding. She's a mom.
• 7:02
  She is one of those amazing female entrepreneurs that started a business that is doing amazing. We can't wait
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: We're different.
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, different.
• 7:12
  Speaker 4: We're looking for different.
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so Sarah, thank you for joining us.
• 7:15
  Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here.
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: Us too. So we want to hear all about the journey of starting Brave Pudding, and then we have lots of questions.
• 7:25
  Speaker 5: Great, great. Well, my journey to starting Brave Pudding wasn't, I didn't set out to start a business, which I think you have to really be open to because things develop at the right time when you're ready. I'd always had drawers full of beautiful socks and I never wanted to wear them. And because the minute you wear a sock, they either get worn in the heel or roughed up in the back or a ball is in your leg.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: Can I ask what makes a beautiful sock? Is it the, you can see the part that peeks through above the shoe?
• 7:56
  Speaker 5: I think it comes down to the fabric because of Brave Pudding and my concept of lifestyle is just to be comfortable and luxurious, but not necessarily screaming it. And so the comfort, the fit, the style, the look, all of that is super important to me. So that's what I think makes the best sock. Then I love fun colors too in socks. And it just happened at the right time.
• 8:18
  It didn't start out to be a trend, but at the same time, everyone started wearing socks again and wearing high socks and wearing socks over your pants. And so it sort of coincided in this perfect storm. But I had just not set out to start a business, but when I was looking at all my socks, wanted to wear them. One day I had been wearing Belgian shoes forever. Since I was like 20 years old, I thought it was really funny to be retro and be in sort of a modern outfit but wear super grandma of And Belgian actually they won't sell them to you unless you go into the store.
• 8:51
  I mean, they're very particular and I love that because it means that they really care about their shoes and sort of like last bastion of something that's still really special. I'd wear them and I'd put soles on them or I'd go to Paris and buy Charvet slippers and put soles on them and wear them outside. Was like, want to be even more comfortable. I think post COVID, that's what people really changed. And so how do you redefine that?
• 9:12
  People wanted to be out of their sweatpants, they wanted to be out of their yoga clothes, but sort of how does that translate in the modern world post the pandemic? And people spent more than ever in interior design because they were staying home more. I felt like I wanted to take the comfort that I feel inside with all my cozy blankets and pajamas and lounge wear and cozies. I wanted to bring that outside. I didn't want to take them off to leave.
• 9:34
  So it was the perfect hybrid. I just started playing around with glue. The cobblers in New York City are amazing. It's a lost trade that doesn't exist in a lot of other cities anymore. They gave me advice and they're the nicest guys.
• 9:46
  They said, No, you have to do it this way. No, that glue won't hold.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: What was the knowledge you had prior to that in making
• 9:51
  Speaker 5: it I was not a cobbler
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: on the accidental Wait, I thought you were a cobbler your whole life.
• 9:58
  Speaker 5: I did go to Cornell Textile and
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: Design You had some of that passion. I did,
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: and I worked
• 10:03
  Speaker 5: at Ralph Lauren in the corporate offices when I was in high school, and I would go every day after school in my uniform from Nightingale.
• 10:09
  Speaker 4: So you had retail in your blood. Were
• 10:11
  Speaker 5: really The interest was there. The interest was always there. Yes. Remember my first job at nine years old was selling men's shirts in East Hampton at this old
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: spring So funny.
• 10:21
  Speaker 5: And I learned about the quality and how you and sell how it feels and touches. So I think that was really influential. Then I just started messing around and wearing them. And I was private on Instagram and people started DMing me to place orders. And fast forward, was making them in my bathroom.
• 10:37
  Were drawing on my dining room table. Little son was helping me bag them up in half baguette bags to be delivered with Japanese washi tape. Love that. It was such a wonderful experience and I think it was amazing to have the kids.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: But did they come in sizes?
• 10:53
  Speaker 5: Is it small, compact? Fast forward we decided to make it into a real product after selling almost 100. We were like, let's see if this can be a real business. And I wanted it to feel exactly as though you were wearing the most beautiful pristine cashmere sock that never got dirty, never wore out, never had all the problems with socks, but also somehow translated to wear them outside. They come in whole sizes, there's a full internal construction, so it's deceptive.
• 11:21
  It looks like you're just wearing a sock, but I like to say it's almost like a costume. There's a full shoe, it just looks like a sock. But I think been definitely controversial and received a lot of attention because I think
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: This is
• 11:33
  Speaker 5: different. It's different and people say, I'm not going to wear my socks on the street. I don't wear my underwear on
• 11:38
  Speaker 4: the street. They think of
• 11:39
  Speaker 5: it as sort of this category that falls into Interesting.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 11:42
  Speaker 5: So it's shocking, but I like that because that means you're doing something different. I'm not the first person to make a sock shoe, but I do think that I'm the first person to make a comfortable working amazing shoe that looks like a sock.
• 11:56
  Speaker 4: Sarah, do you have one on? Do.
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: Pull it off.
• 11:59
  Speaker 4: Show the
• 12:00
  Speaker 5: cat. I haven't worn another pair of shoes since October 2021. Oh my god. I have to be a walking billboard. This is cool.
• 12:10
  It's a real turtle shoe. And if you feel it, there's a very big insole. So I custom injected the insoles because I really wanted it to be comfortable. I'm from New York City, we walk. I had to be able to walk in them.
• 12:22
  Wanted them more comfortable. Very cool.
• 12:25
  Speaker 4: Thank you. Made in New York? No, it's made
• 12:29
  Speaker 5: in Portugal. We have three different factories. Have one that knits the socks out of recycled cashmere. One that injects the insole and then one that makes the outsole out of recycled rubber tonal to the color of the socks and then they put it all together in another factory. So we work out of Portugal.
• 12:49
  It was really great working there. Would love to bring production to The US.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: We might not have the knowledge to do this yet, but we will. We'll figure it out.
• 12:59
  Speaker 5: Exactly. Bringing It's interesting more to to the see that because they had never done this type of product before and we were in Portugal and it was the end of our trip and we were scratching our heads, no one could make it. And the man said, I'm sorry, back to the drawing board. And I said, No, I'm leaving tomorrow morning at 9AM. We need a working solution.
• 13:17
  He said, Sorry, the factory is closed for the day. It was 04:45. And I said, Can you bring me a sock, glue? I named the And materials that I because I had made 100 by hand, was single And table with I said, Let me show you how I've made them.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Doesn't it feel good to take back the power? I mean,
• 13:34
  Speaker 5: my hand was shaking and he
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: said, Oh, let me help
• 13:36
  Speaker 5: you with that. When I was cutting something, I go, No, no, no, I just had a lot of coffee today. Wouldn't admit that, I was all men and factory owners and I was this crazy stay at home American That was rolling in like, I want to make these shoes.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: And
• 13:49
  Speaker 5: then, like an older gentleman came up to me, probably like your generation.
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: What kind
• 13:54
  Speaker 6: of lady
• 13:54
  Speaker 5: is going to wear these shoes?
• 13:56
  Speaker 4: That's an interesting concept. I'm gonna say the other thing. I don't know would you wear this to the office. I think this is much more wearing around town going out wearing a satin tie. Do you really?
• 14:12
  Speaker 5: I wore them black tight even I went to a fiftieth birthday And I wore the black ones.
• 14:18
  Speaker 4: The blacks,
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: not just silk dress. And my partner in business and in life, Max Betterbush, he wore the black ones with his tux. And men have been wearing Venetian slippers, like Belgian slippers with tuxes True.
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: Well, men
• 14:31
  Speaker 5: much more so. And said, this is like amazing. Like, oh, you're wearing slippers? I'm wearing socks on. Even more comfortable than you, my black tie.
• 14:39
  So I kind of like to do because tongue issue like
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: one woman goes to a
• 14:43
  Speaker 5: black tie after the cocktail hour, my feet I'm are killing not comfortable. I don't feel like dancing. Then I think that's what it is. I think women have been uncomfortable and then men or whoever they're with wonder like, Oh, why is she diva? Or why is she saying her toes hurt?
• 14:59
  Or why does she need Advil? And it's like, no, we're just as fun as everyone else. But if you're uncomfortable, you're not going to have fun.
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: It's actually such a good point. The judgment of you can't walk down the block to get a cab. Like why does the Uber have to come around or things like this. It's not easy to walk in heels after you've been in them all. And it's not good for your back and it's not like this
• 15:20
  Speaker 4: is true. These are true. I like the idea that you could get them in any color. So the black really is fabulous because it blends into the pants.
• 15:29
  Speaker 5: And if you're in the city and you wear a black mini skirt with black tights, cotton, cashmere, whatever tights and then you put the black on, it's just the most seamless look. And so I think that's why we've done through our advertising and our marketing that we've done in the photo shoots was really to explain to the client how they're going to wear it, when they're going to wear it That's outside of their
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: very good that you put in that. Because it's a new item. It's a new item and it just should be explained a little bit.
• 15:57
  Speaker 5: To be explained and visually because I don't think people read long, you know.
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: Well, they can't get it. One picture is worth a thousand words.
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: Well, we're relearning societally and this is what grandma and I talked about before you came in. Like, you know, hundreds of years ago we were like really uncomfortable. We were in corsets and multiple layers of skirts and all of these things and we're kind of relearning as women that we don't have to do that to look beautiful. And that's not, you can't do that on your own either, by the way. Like we all need to
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: and it's women supporting other women. Women saying, No, that looks great. No, I'm gonna wear them to the office with big wide leg trousers and a man's shirt tucked in and then you wear this. It's just resetting of how you think of a sock or how you think of being exposed. You can wear it.
• 16:47
  Everything under the sun basically that are comfortable now, but with their chest and cleavage exposed people are like, Oh, I don't want to show my socks. You
• 16:57
  Speaker 4: figure that out by making pretty socks. That's the difference. My socks from my drawer would not look pretty but these the cashmere ones are beautiful and they're really it's a very slimming look I think on everybody. The sock thing is very different and it's fun. I know it's going to be a fashion state.
• 17:16
  Thank you.
• 17:17
  Speaker 5: Yes. And it's just nice to have that, to feel like you have
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: That you're doing something. But to be
• 17:22
  Speaker 5: able to have an outlet for it, I think for any artist or creative, to have a tangible expression of your creativity is mind blowing to me. Because I've never had that enough for 45 years old. So, that's been extremely exciting and I didn't anticipate that. Totally.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: And I think, I mean, we talk about this all the time, but you've found hopefully a creative outlet in this at So it's really-
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: think Sarah's inspirational in the sense that young women today can do things from home. They can create wonderful, wonderful things and raise a family, have a relationship that works. All these things, it takes a lot to do all of them together and you have to get into a comfort zone. And mine came much later on in life. Sarah's is now, her children are now starting to leave the nest.
• 18:14
  And so she's creating something that she can really put her imprint on now and really develop her own talents where she was always, I think really in the beginning when you have a young family and you're starting out, most of your effort goes into the family. And now as you get a little bit older and you have a little more time, you can do your own creative thing. Of course, took me eighty years to find that. It's never too late.
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: What do your kids think of Brave Puddin'?
• 18:40
  Speaker 5: I love your questions, they're awesome. My children, I think, always give their mothers a hard time, or their parents in general. So I would say don't really know how they feel.
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: They're not gonna be the spokesperson. You're not putting them in the marketing campaign?
• 18:56
  Speaker 5: I think they are out of your shot. When they're at
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: school, I think they're
• 19:01
  Speaker 5: talking their friends. I hope. That's my favorite mistake.
• 19:05
  Speaker 4: But in the home, they want me to
• 19:06
  Speaker 5: be their mom. That's so normal. Like, Can you finish all your calls And by I said, Sure, when you come home, you gonna hang out with me And at they said, No, we just wanna see you there. And so I think it's been an adjustment for the four children because they have to
• 19:22
  Speaker 4: But it's a good adjustment because many women have to work don't to have the give to the children the way Sarah has done and perhaps your mom and the way I did. But it's very important that children know their mothers have something that they do well and they're trying to make a success of whatever it is, whether it's making a cake or doing anything that's their thing.
• 19:45
  Speaker 5: And even seeing the failures along Exactly. The So they know that they
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: can fail and it's so all right.
• 19:50
  Speaker 5: They'll come in the beginning, were like, how many sales did you have today? Like that was their barometer and just whether it was successful or not. And at first I was embarrassed when we had a day in September when it was hot and I was launching a brand of cashmere sauce and
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: no one knew what it was.
• 20:05
  Speaker 5: And they were like, I'm not buying it. And so I kind of used to shield them from it I think. I'd be like, Oh, we did well. Or I would think of something to protect I think myself. And then I sort of got comfortable with the fact that I'm not really teaching And my kids I say like, Great, everything's great.
• 20:22
  So seeing like, No, we didn't have a good day today.
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: That is a gratification that you know that you're economically now self sufficient in doing something that you love to do. This is
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: all the difference between us though. Once Excuse My Grandma was a business, we're like, We're doing it. And the whole time I was just like, I'll do it for free.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: But free is not in my It's fine if you're doing public service, then it is free. Exactly. You should do that. But if you're really putting effort into it and you're putting your time and effort, it makes you feel good for yourself. You don't have to become Elon Musk.
• 21:11
  We don't need to adapt trillions of dollars of profit, but you wanna know after all the time that you've put in that it is successful financially. Otherwise you really can't keep doing it. Nobody has a bottomless pit where you
• 21:23
  Speaker 5: just can keep doing I agree. And I think it's important for the team too. We've got to really good team and we spent the time over developing the product to build a team. So I think unfortunately like monetary success is still a problem because of we have a whole team and they see and the they want to know if we're doing well. And when we have a great day, I mean, you're in the Wall Street Journal on Thursday,
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: we have
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: so many orders and that pumps them up. I said to them, it on your Instagrams. Like, is your victory as much as it's mine. Like you've worked all this. It's great that it's my name and I'm the founder and brave putting in that.
• 21:56
  I really love all that. These are amazing hardworking people that have worked a lot into it. It's their job, So they wanna if I continue a business that's not bringing in revenue, I would feel uncomfortable
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: for For sure.
• 22:09
  Speaker 5: Think sure to be pushing and pushing and pushing.
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: Makes sense and you need people who believe in you believe Believe in product.
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: In the
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: You're in a relationship? I am, guess. What does he think of your
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: Well, he's definitely wearing a shoe. He a black tie.
• 22:24
  Speaker 5: He wore them to black tie. So, he's my co founder and business partner and he's the CEO of the company.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: Oh, didn't realize that, okay.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: And so, was sort of there all along. I And that think when he we were selling so many with the handmade product, he said, Are you really serious about this? Do you want to work? We really took the time to sort of figure it out and not just sort of have one thing flowing to the other. And I said, no, I'm really serious about this, I believe in.
• 22:50
  He said, I've started a bunch of businesses. He's been in hospitality and he's invested in companies. He said, you have a unique product. It's gonna be well made. It's a new category.
• 23:00
  He's like, you should try to do this and I can help you do it. And so, went to business school and he's extremely bright. And so, he's been an amazing support in terms of developing the business. But I'm still on every single call. I don't wanna be the creator that has no idea what's going on But in the I think having a co founder is like an amazing support in starting a business.
• 23:20
  Whether it's male, female or whatever. It just so happens. I mean, did wake me up once in the middle of the night and sort of nudged me. We don't live together but we were together and we don't have our kids. And, he nudged me in the middle of the night and he said, Sarah, Sarah, wake up.
• 23:34
  Or he calls me Sizzle, that's his nickname, Sarah Fazelle, I don't know. Oh, cute. Have you ever made shoes before? And I was like, What?
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: Is this so funny
• 23:43
  Speaker 5: to me? Like, have you ever made
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: a shoe? Have you ever done
• 23:45
  Speaker 5: this before? No, go back to sleep and don't wake me up anymore. Exactly. And so I think there was that moment of like, totally. Felt like my style was unique and different that he doesn't have that creativity, but he's sort of betting on my style and my work ethic and how we work together.
• 24:05
  It's been an amazing thing. My parents worked together when I was trying
• 24:08
  Speaker 3: So you're kind of used to seeing a business run by a couple also. Yes. It happens, and we work together as family members, but there's challenges that come from For the same sure. Business and
• 24:22
  Speaker 5: worked for my father. I worked for my father for around ten or fifteen years and we sold real estate together. So, I think for me it's just a very natural fit. I think the hardest thing is when you live with someone, you share a life with someone, whatever it may be, it's really hard to then reset and be in the relationship And mode I think that's what we've sort of navigated in the course since we've launched the company. And I also think we spent the time, since it is my sort of second time around in a relationship, I said, I was very young when I met my ex and he's wonderful and he's a great friend and we raised our kids together.
• 24:56
  So, I feel very blessed. But I wanted to take the time in this new relationship. I said, whoever I date and marry, I want to go into therapy pretty soon. I can't
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: believe someone. This
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: is
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: your
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: soul mate. And he
• 25:08
  Speaker 5: was like, What? I think I went on a couple dates when I got to work. I remember saying it on each date. And I kind of was like, I'm just going be myself because at this age, I can't hide that I have four kids. I can't, you know, am who I am little bit, but I'm always trying to grow and evolve.
• 25:23
  And I said, I would like it because I think you have to learn another person. How can you get along with someone if you don't know what their triggers Get You know what triggers them, what upsets them, how they're, right? So, we kind
• 25:34
  Speaker 4: of spent the time getting to know each other very early in our relationship. It can only help though. But that's at a certain age. I think this is very different if this is a second act. First act, if you told your boyfriend, a twenty six thirty year old guy, let's go into therapy, he has got a gussie.
• 25:51
  Well, I
• 25:51
  Speaker 5: don't know, boyfriend
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: and I are separately therapy people. We always have been in therapy. So that's better than nothing. I could see how it would be useful to do together, but I think also it is very like, I probably haven't, thank God, been burned enough or feel like I need to, not that you have to be to,
• 26:13
  Speaker 4: No, think but like it's different. Think you have other issues when another, when you had children and when you have other issues. So much to take on as a second partner. So in that case, agree with Sarah, you really do need to talk it out with somebody But I think as a first time around, if you're having so many problems right away, you should just always move on. But it's not always like you're
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: It's in a problem. Yeah, it's not that
• 26:38
  Speaker 5: you have problems. It could be like, Why do you always get quiet when I ask how I look? I don't know, making something.
• 26:47
  Speaker 3: And you
• 26:48
  Speaker 5: could fight about it for the next fifteen years or you could of talk it out what and be is it when I say, do I look? And he would be like, oh, my mother used to
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: always say,
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: or whatever.
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: It always gets back to the mother. It doesn't matter what conversation, it's always the mother. Totally.
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: But yeah, feel like it could be so fun and your business could even be better when you are in it with a romantic partner or family member if you are aligned in that way. Luckily in your case, So that's great. Let's talk about Grandma Report. This week, our article, it's in Business of Fashion, and it's just talking about H and M using AI models. Since we have Sarah here, the expert.
• 27:38
  Certainly not us. Well, can give our 2¢ on it, but basically
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: Explain to the audience what they're doing because it's a little weird.
• 27:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I think H and M hired like 30 models or something like that and made duplicates of them in AI that they can use in their marketing materials. And the models are also able to take that with other brands if they choose.
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: Do they get paid for their images? I don't know. Think they get paid for that image. Otherwise, why would the model
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: But go do it yeah, it begs the question, is it taking away jobs for future models, for stylists, for hair and makeup people, for photographers? So what are your thoughts?
• 28:22
  Speaker 5: Well, think it's a huge disruptor. I mean, I think AI across the board is gonna affect every industry. I'm really interested in AI, particularly as a new business, doing a photo shoot and a campaign, especially for a product like this where I really had to visually explain what the product was The and how to wear photo shoot was extremely important, but it also was our biggest budget. That was like our biggest expense. And so if you have the ability to take what would be a $50,000 photo shoot and reduce it to like $50 through AI, as much of a disruptor as it is in fashion, you have to do it.
• 29:00
  You can go from having to shoot an outdoor location and that's a whole budget, and an indoor location in the studio is another budget. The fact that you can have a model interchange the backgrounds. Mean, that's, it's just amazing. Yeah. We've interviewed about three or four companies that are doing this now in fashion.
• 29:19
  I think we're really, really close. I think for our next product launch, we'll probably do a combination of the two because I think they're not quite there, but they're like It's close. Right on the And I think there are players in the space and they're constantly updating and perfecting it. And I can put on my shoes. I can put on puddings in the beach, puddings in asthma, puddings here.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Meaning that it doesn't look lifelike yet? Like what do mean it's
• 29:44
  Speaker 5: It almost looks lifelike. I think the model looks lifelike. It's hard to have the product look lifelike and perform.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: But they'll fix it. I didn't think about it. They'll fix
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: it. Think it's all amazing. I mean, I'm obsessed with like ChatGPT and stuff. I'm also interested in AI. My only thing is when it comes to like those creative industries, like I know in film and TV, it's a huge discussion now too of using AI and taking
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: away It jobs from doesn't matter. They're going to have to learn different jobs. We've discussed this. This is the way the future is. You can't pull back.
• 30:15
  It's only going to go forward. There's going to be a disrupting moment in our time and we will get over it. Mean, brother's been talking about this for years. I mean, he was a proponent as a kid at 18 years old of AI. So he's right and we didn't understand it.
• 30:33
  If I did, I would have brought a lot of the stock But he talked the truth of the matter is that's the future. You can never look back. You can really never go backwards. Everything is forward looking shoes, forward different ideas, we can't go back to wearing platforms. Women are not going to do it.
• 30:50
  I mean, maybe it'll be for one fashion shoot, maybe somebody in Paris will wear. But most people want to go and be comfortable or be part of the new generation, new thinking. Everything is new, including us. I want to think new, I want to think old.
• 31:06
  Speaker 5: I feel the same exact
• 31:07
  Speaker 4: I way as you think it's very important and I don't think people should worry about the jobs will come. We're going to have different types of education. We're not going to learn the same way because it's not going to be necessary. You're going to have to look on your phone. You can find out all the information without memorizing what dates in history were important.
• 31:26
  That's already changed. So I don't think we should worry about it. I think people should look hopefully there'll be new things to be excited about.
• 31:35
  Speaker 3: Speaking of old fashion trends, let's play a game of should we bring it back? We play it on every episode with 1950s fashion trends and then we'll decide whether we want to bring it back to today or leave it in the past. A corset waist.
• 31:58
  Speaker 4: Not for me. I don't like the look.
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: I love the look, but it is uncomfortable. Exactly. It looks good. I would like to bring it back, but you guys say no.
• 32:08
  Speaker 5: Well, for me, it's like where you're putting my style is very relaxed. Just so the corset doesn't appeal to me because it looks uncomfortable. Right, right, So
• 32:16
  Speaker 3: how do you just, I guess, define ease and comfort in fashion? Or is it a feeling?
• 32:23
  Speaker 5: I think it's definitely a feeling that comes from not looking
• 32:29
  Speaker 4: Too too
• 32:30
  Speaker 5: done, too I think that's one great thing about black tie. Was the first time I felt comfortable in black tie. Felt like myself wearing this beautiful gown with beautiful cashmere socks and like instead of a fur piece or instead of overly fancy coat, wore sort of like a cashmere elder statesman grandpa cardigan. And I was like, Oh, I feel like me for the first time. Because I was expressing myself.
• 32:55
  It doesn't have to be screaming with bright colors and neon and loud. It's just sort of I
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: think the place for a corset is perhaps now in a wedding gown. And then after that, it's retired.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: Okay. Opera gloves.
• 33:10
  Speaker 4: Opera gloves are definitely a no, but I do know, I see on when the Met has the Costume Institute, the women wear the long black ones. It's a look, it's a look. I don't think for 300,000,000 people, they're gonna buy opera gloves, but it doesn't bother me.
• 33:26
  Speaker 5: Sarah? I'm not into opera gloves, but I really am into gloves lately. So I've started wearing gloves all the time, even in the spring. Okay. Because I, well, I have a little bit of OCD, I don't like touching things and I realized, oh, people used to always wear gloves.
• 33:40
  Yes, we did. I have an accessories business. I'm like, oh, there's a reason why people wear gloves. You're not touching everything and then touching your face.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Like cashmere gloves?
• 33:49
  Speaker 5: I found these brand actually leather gloves.
• 33:50
  Speaker 4: Leather gloves are beautiful.
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: A million to beautiful leather gloves.
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: I just have lost. They were beautiful. Really, a male and a woman never went out without a little frog.
• 34:00
  Speaker 5: And I see old pictures of Jackie Osho would wear the simplest long sleeve cotton t shirt with just a short glove with a snap but wear the snap open. So that's kind of me. I would wear the formal glove but the snap would be open but it wouldn't look so perfect. So I'm really into gloves. I don't know about opera though,
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: yeah. That means the higher?
• 34:19
  Speaker 4: On the arm? I had it. The last time I made anybody wear it was at your mother's wedding. They wore a
• 34:24
  Speaker 5: long But it wide at like 80 degrees.
• 34:26
  Speaker 4: And it was 84 degrees. And I felt so badly for those girls. I mean, we're talking And were about
• 34:31
  Speaker 3: velvet dresses.
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: And with wine velvet dresses and long white gloves.
• 34:35
  Speaker 3: Because it happened to be a hot day in the winter.
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: And no air conditioning. It wasn't in the winter, it was not good. It's about the last time I ever insisted on long gloves.
• 34:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, two piece sets. Feel like it was a thing no, to like wasn't it a thing to wear like the skirt with the matching like top?
• 34:53
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, well they still do that
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: I feel like that's back. I like it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: It makes people look, especially older people, when you don't break up a color palette, you tend to look slimmer.
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: I love the matching set because I don't even think about styling.
• 35:09
  Speaker 5: I love a matching set. It's like my language. I love it.
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: Yeah, like it too.
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Okay, and peplum.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: I like it. I mean, was a couple years ago, think they were more in style and exciting. Now I'm not so into
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: it Yeah, for some it's not a chic. Know. I like it. Maybe a peplum blazer.
• 35:28
  Speaker 5: The new peplum jackets by Libero, I think it's a new brand. L I B E R O W E. I don't know. They're doing peplums. I think hers are super chic.
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: I think if you're very tall and very thin, it looks very pretty. If you're short and a little stout, it's not a pretty look. Think it's really all Do need about a body
• 35:46
  Speaker 5: so many?
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's all about body type.
• 35:49
  Speaker 5: I like a peplum jacket open too. Okay, let's
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: just finish up with Ask Grandma Anything, but Sarah will stay to get some of your opinions. Our listeners wrote in these questions on Instagram. First one is favorite restaurant in Florida.
• 36:08
  Speaker 4: Oh, that's becoming better. I'm getting a little tired. But my favorite restaurant in Florida, I think is Still Kitchen in West Palm on Belvedere. Delicious fish and all the ingredients are very, very good. And the chef is there all the time.
• 36:24
  I think it's good.
• 36:27
  Speaker 3: I think, I mean, my favorites always change. I like Brick Tops and Palm Beach Grill.
• 36:33
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well those are favorites of everybody. I Can't think
• 36:39
  Speaker 5: my favorite restaurant is Pizza Alfresco.
• 36:42
  Speaker 4: Somebody was seeing the fish there. Been so fabulous. It is. That's what they
• 36:46
  Speaker 5: were discussing The salmon used to be really good too and I love the pizza. I just have so many good memories. For me, I think restaurants are more about memories, but they have to have good food too.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: The How pizza is
• 36:59
  Speaker 4: to build close friendships? Well, be authentic. And you don't have that many. If you can count one or two people to be a close friend, you'll be very lucky. And you have to be honest with them and be caring.
• 37:17
  Speaker 3: I do feel like I have adult Obviously friends that I the people I know from school, those are longer term relationships. But then when you are living in the city or wherever you are and you want to make some new friends, I do feel like it goes a long way to constant, not constantly because you don't wanna be annoying as a new friend, but once every few weeks at least, try to get a dinner on the books to kind of form that new relationship because it does take time to start something new. It's kind of like
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: I
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: know day make friends. Begins
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: and
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: Well, you're busy. And so people have to make time. In advance.
• 37:58
  Speaker 3: And also if you really want to be friends with this new person, remembering this is obvious, but remember things that they said, show interest what they're doing, all that. Are there fewer high quality men now than there were when you were young?
• 38:16
  Speaker 4: No, I don't think they are. It's just that we didn't have boyfriends as long. Within a couple of months, certainly not when you were a teenager or when you're early 20s, but by the time you were 23, you were already married. We didn't live with people for two years and have a conversation. Maybe we'll go to the next level next year.
• 38:36
  That wasn't heard of. First of women didn't live outside of their homes. So that's a whole different story. And we really can't really compare from the 50s, 60s and even the early There's
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: that trope that everyone says that I don't like to perpetuate of like, all the good guys are gone.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: No, don't agree with that. I don't agree with that. I think it's just, as you get older, you need different things. And when I was younger, were looking for a partner who maybe you would start a family with and say, Oh my gosh, he's got a good living. We can do it together.
• 39:09
  As you get older, have different values. You want different things out of it. If you're starting at 30, it's not the same conversation as when you're 22 or 23. So I think there are plenty of good women out there, plenty of good men out there, it's just who clicks
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: with you. I think it's the best time to meet men. I think men have never been better because women are better and women are more empowered. So the men that I'm raising, that I'm bringing up know about therapy, know about, you know, they're being raised in a home where I'm an entrepreneur, I'm starting a business. So I think like the best group of men, you know, probably is coming up.
• 39:47
  And I think there are a lot out there in their thirties that have been raised in a different way than men had been raised previously. And they're much more open minded to having a very open partnership.
• 39:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I love that. I actually am going to use that response if I'm asked that because it is so true. Like the culture now has shifted in a lot of ways for the better. Obviously we lose some of the, I don't know, nice manners, tradition, like those kinds of things that I'm a nostalgic person. I like those things of the past, but
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: I still think the man should be the head of the house. I don't care how wonderful the woman is.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: How do define head of the house?
• 40:23
  Speaker 4: I think he should be the, well, of course this isn't applicable in many cases today, but still the breadwinner for the most part. A woman can have a career, so if they're fiftyfifty, perfect. But the man still should be the father, still should be the person that the children look up to as the ultimate person. The mother is the nurturer, father is the provider. I know it's old fashioned, I still think it works.
• 40:49
  And I think when you disrupt it, it doesn't always work. And then the kids end up suffering because they're not sure who is really heading the ship. Somebody has to run the ship and you made your decision right in the beginning. You want me to run the ship or you want you to run the ship. Somebody has to run the ship.
• 41:06
  And I think when there's equal partnering, it doesn't usually work because nothing is ever
• 41:11
  Speaker 5: equal in a relationship. Well, that's what I was going say. Agree with you 100% but I think children are more sophisticated they're able to understand the nuances of relationships. I can be in the partnership I have while raising my children. My kids kind of
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: know different now. Their mother's sort
• 41:30
  Speaker 5: of the powerhouse for that one. Their father makes the decision about it. They pick it up so And so it becomes more, even in my relationship with my ex, like Dave and I have really evolved in our relationship and our kids sort of understand why you're lucky. You're lucky. I worked so
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: hard for it. Mean, we've
• 41:46
  Speaker 5: worked so hard to progress a relationship that really works in the modern world. And then my part Max and I work all the time to sort of define and redefine what that means.
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the redefining is a huge part because like one, to say that it works the way that you had it, like, I don't think it worked for a lot
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: of people. No, fifty percent of the people got divorced.
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: Right, and I think a lot of people were unhappy even if they didn't get divorced, so to say it worked. I'm happy it worked for you, obviously. But I think that, I don't know, obviously things are shifting and changing because they weren't really working.
• 42:20
  Speaker 4: Well, I don't know if it ever works. I think relationships have to be worked out between two people. And I think when you take away certain innate characteristics, which I have seen with some women, not all women, certainly not you and not you, but a lot of women emasculate a man and make them feel that they're really
• 42:39
  Speaker 3: I don't think that's true at all. Think you should be comfortable in yourself so that no one can emasculate you. No one can I'm make that
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: not sure that that's true.
• 42:46
  Speaker 3: Well then they shouldn't be with somebody who- Well
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: that person.
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: If they have such a fragile ego that someone being successful around them doesn't make them feel more motivated and then it brings them down. One, they have their own demons, but fine, they can find someone that
• 43:02
  Speaker 4: they're I hope gonna I hope you're you're right. Right because a lot of women out there are very unhappy in their relationships. And I think a lot of men aren't happy. I think that it used to be a simpler time and I think now roles are not defined as such and this has common issue. I don't know the answer, that's for sure.
• 43:20
  Speaker 5: No, I agree. I used to see things as very black and white. I think that's how I was raised. Everything is black and white. And so I think life is really more nuanced and you kind of have to live in the gray.
• 43:31
  And for a lot of people, it was especially true for me, was extremely uncomfortable living in the gray. I wanted definitive answers. I wanted a definitive family structure. Because that felt comfortable. Going into the gray areas is kind of uncomfortable, right?
• 43:46
  And I think women are just starting to get comfortable being in that gray area and having confidence around them, seeing other women. You're a young woman, like you come to me and say, I wanna do X, Y, and Z and I'm gonna open up every thing I have to be like, Yes, you can do it. Like, Yes, you can have a modern relationship.
• 44:03
  Speaker 4: It's sisterhood now.
• 44:04
  Speaker 5: And women are learning how to support themselves, how to have relationships, how to make men feel great, but not in traditional masculine, And feminine that we work on. And I think it's also in relation to constant work in terms of, I think a lot of men are unhappy. I think a lot of women are unhappy. But I think through productive conversation, it's the only way to stay sane, you know? Agreed.
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: Now we've cured everybody. You guys have a person listening to this podcast that isn't cured now.
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: Okay, good. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: Good
• 44:38
  Speaker 3: to Tell everyone how they can find you, find your brand.
• 44:42
  Speaker 5: The best way to find us is at bravepudding.com and we're online. We're also at Kern Azabete, we're at Koi Board in London, we're at a store at De Ville, France. Oh wow! May
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: I ask how much they retail for?
• 44:56
  Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely. They retail for $3.8
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: Okay. So they're pricey, but they're lovely.
• 45:00
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Thank you so much.
• 45:02
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 45:03
  Speaker 5: I had a question.
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: Pepsi Prebiotic Cola in Original and Cherry Vanilla. That Pepsi taste you love with no artificial sweeteners and three grams of prebiotic fiber. Pepsi Prebiotic Cola, unbelievably Pepsi. Hey, mama. Thanks for making all my favorite recipes.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Hi, ma. Thanks for your unfiltered advice.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: Hi, mom. Thanks for always being by the phone. Hey,
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: mom. Happy Mother's Day.
• 45:31
  Speaker 6: When you ship UPS air at the UPS store, your items arrive on time or your money back, guaranteed at no extra cost. Exclusively at the UPS Store US retail locations. Visit the upsstore.com/airshipping for full details. Terms and conditions apply. Send your Mother's Day gifts at the UPS Store, and we'll get your gratitude there on time.
• 45:49
  Speaker 5: Freaking out. Can I ask one
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: more question?
• 45:50
  Speaker 3: Oh, sure. I forgot to give you
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: the floor. No, no, no, but it's something I was, if even if I bumped into you, I wanted to ask you. For me, starting work at forty five, I mean, I would be lying if I didn't say like I have a different swagger in my step, It's really rewarding and I wanted to know how you feel having started a career. I mean, know you love to give Kimberly a lot, you know, all the and she really is amazing and remarkable young woman, but certainly you are.
• 46:17
  Speaker 3: Wait, since when do you give me the credit?
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: I always give you the credit.
• 46:20
  Speaker 5: She does. She always gives you the best. Yes. She does. I wonder if that's like how you feel about it
• 46:27
  Speaker 4: I walking around in your love meeting people. I've always loved it. I'm much more outgoing than even Kim. So the part that I love is like meeting you, meeting other young women, men that have an interesting point of view. This is something I never did, so I'm loving it, enjoying it for what that is.
• 46:48
  I don't want any of the publicity, the glory of the business because that's really Kim's creation and her team's creation. That has nothing to do with me. I come on here, I'm a guest.
• 46:59
  Speaker 5: But when you're washing your face at
• 47:01
  Speaker 4: night and you're putting on your pajamas and you work during the day,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: is it a different mindset than
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: you have? Yes, a different mindset because now I know that I'm changing people's attitudes about how older people can do things. And that's one of the messages we always talk about. It's never too late to go do something. I got an opportunity through my granddaughter, but there's so many other women who have got so much to offer when they're older that if given the opportunity, they would be terrific.
• 47:31
  Well, think women have
• 47:32
  Speaker 5: always like secretly ruled everything. Mean, like to say that you and my mother and the women at the card table, they literally believe and probably could solve every
• 47:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we do. You solve every problem.
• 47:43
  Speaker 5: You do. And they do it with confidence and they speak. Mean, was interviewed and the author said, Oh, I mean, writer said, Oh my God, you have so much confidence in your product. You really believe in it. I go, Oh, you should see my mother, her part lady.
• 47:54
  It's like, they believe they could make laws so that would work and there's no question
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: about 100%. Their word is Bible.
• 48:02
  Speaker 5: But that's why I want so many women, even women that are young Mature women. I always go to older people for advice because they're a wealth of knowledge and they've seen so much. A therapist once said to me, I said, Oh, I'm scared to tell my grandmother about something. And he goes, Oh no, you shouldn't be worried about your grandmother. She should be the first one.
• 48:20
  She's lived so much life. Exactly. You can't shake them.
• 48:24
  Speaker 4: And I was
• 48:24
  Speaker 5: like, Really? Even with this? I called my grandmother, she was like, okay, you'll be fine. What's next?
• 48:29
  Speaker 4: Like what
• 48:29
  Speaker 5: are having for dinner? Did you find that lipstick you
• 48:32
  Speaker 3: were because looking
• 48:33
  Speaker 5: it doesn't shake them in the way
• 48:35
  Speaker 4: you You've got already lived through so many things that these things that you think are so traumatic when you're in your 20s and 30s and 40s really we've done it. But women didn't talk about it. No, well that was a different thing. First of all, the phones have changed everything and nobody talked about their private lives as openly today as in the old days as they do today. So it's for the better.
• 48:57
  Sometimes it's an oversharing of stuff, but in most cases I think it's helpful for other people to hear other issues.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: And you have to obviously, I know you do give yourself credit, which why I was surprised, because privately you give yourself credit. I do like that. Yeah, yeah, but I will say just because I'm the one doing deals and doing strategy for the business and hiring people, you know your value, which is also being talent.
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: Well, you always said that. Well, that was our dynamic. My mother would come home and say, Gail said, and it was like, woah, I mean, it's ridiculous. No, love it.
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: Love the cadence of how you talk. I love your confidence. I love it all
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: my And good the you're around, the more you're saved. You don't know if it's true or not, but you keep saying it.
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, but all your friends kind of do go to you as that person. That's a thing about you
• 49:53
  Speaker 5: for sure.
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: All right, sweetheart. All right, thank you, Sarah.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Sarah. Thank you. My ego is now up a thousand percent.
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: And you guys know how to follow us, or Excuse My Grandma, on TikTok, Instagram, wherever you're listening to podcasts, and we'll see you next week.
• 50:09
  Speaker 4: Bye. Bye.