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Joe Rogan Experience _2420 - Chris Masterjohn · Luke's English Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Check it out.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: But Joe Regan Experience Train My Day, Joe Rogan podcast
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: by Night All Day. Hi Chris, very nice to meet you.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Nice to meet I have enjoyed your content online for
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: a few years now, so it's really solid stuff. And
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: I thought, what about a day didn't bring Chris in
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: right after everybody fucked up their diet. Yeah, that's right.
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: Well, I just want to tell public health message that
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: you did not get sleepy because the turkey was high
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: and tripped a fan.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah that's isn't that a weird one? That's a weird
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: myth that's persisted for a long time.
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: I mean, the weirdest thing is the origins of it.
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: Apparently it came from researchers in the not I'm sorry
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: not researchers journalists in the eighties who were trying to
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: come up with a reason to explain why everyone was
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: tired after Thanksgiving meal, and they just looked as far as, oh,
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: turkey has tripped fan, which is an amino acid that
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: is the precursor to melotonin, which is a you know,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: you could call it a sleeping chemical. It's it makes
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: you get tired at night. That must be why. But
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: it turns out that a turkey is not that high
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: in tripped fan, like even weight protein is higher in
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: a triple to fan, the turkey is and then v
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: tripped fan doesn't make you tired. Yeah, I dare anyone
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: to go out and have like a just a slice
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: of turkey for breakfast and see if it knocks you out.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: It's overeating, It's like so obvious. I mean people are
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: eating tons of stuffing tons of sides. They're eating so
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: much food, you're gorging. It's a gorging day.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's not good.
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: And if you know, if you look at like a
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: lion in the wild, one thing that you'll notice is
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: that they are on the prowl when they are hungry,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: they're alert, their bodies revd up, and then they have
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: a feast and they just fall asleep. And the reason
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: is that we're you know, are you even see this?
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: In physiology, they call the peraspathic personpathetic nervous system, the
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: rest and digest system, And that's because we are biologically
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: wired to be alert when we need to work to
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: get our food, and then we're wired to you know,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: eat that food feel like we've gotten our fill, We've
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: done what we need to do, and we can now
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: we can rest and take asleep.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's normal. I mean, there's a great video of
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: these lion s's, these female lions after they've hunted and
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: killed and ate all this food and they're just lying
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: there like this with these enormous bellies, just like just
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: like your uncle on the couch watching football.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Just yeah, you know. And I think one so one
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: thing that I think we should talk about today is
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: I've been in nutrition research for twenty one years and
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: I'm you know, I think the crowning thesis of my
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: work so far is that we really want to be
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: thinking about mitochondria function at the root of all health
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: and disease. And so I think an interesting way to
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: see sleep is it's like, why do we have to
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: sleep eight hours a night? And I think with dreaming,
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: there's obviously other things going on there, but deep sleep,
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: one of the primary things that's happening is you need
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to give your mitochondria a rest because your mitochondria are
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: what produce all the energy that you need for producing
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: everything in your body, for maintaining it, for repairing it,
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: and for distributing it. Properly and for keeping it going
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: across the lifespan. And so your mitochondria are going to
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: essentially take a nap, take a rest. They don't go
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: off because you die, but they really turn down the
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: volume of the work they're doing. But then you take
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: your metal ball a grade way lower than that, and
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: so you can build up the reserves of energy that
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: you had used up the day before. And so it's
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you that can explain a lot of recent findings that
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: are coming out as well, because there was that recent
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: study where they looked at sleep deprivation with creatine supplementation,
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: and so they randomized people to either drink a placebo
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: drink or drink twenty grams of creatine through the night,
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: and they kept them awake all night and they had
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: them do brain puzzle quizzes. And when the subjects were
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: getting the twenty grams of creatine, they did way better
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: on the brain puzzles, but they also complained about being
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: tired a lot less. And so the conclusion is creatine
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: is somehow acutely preventing your brain from suffering during sleep deprivation.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: And the rationale there is, you know, mitochondria are the
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: powerhouse of the cell or the power plant that's producing
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: the energy. Creatine is like the power grid, and it
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: distributes that energy throughout the cell. And so if the
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: purpose of sleep is to restore the energy that you
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: used up, but then you intervene by putting creatine in there,
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: now you can keep that energy going and you can
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: go more hours before you need to get rest and
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: restore that energy because you've increased your capacity to distribute it.
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: That makes sense. That is an interesting thing because it's
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: fairly recent that people have talked about this, right, I
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: mean used to be people only thought of creating as
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: being a muscle thing to help you recover and help
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: you build larger muscles. But then over the last I
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: would say year or two, I started hearing talking about
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: cognitive function, and maybe even more than a couple of years,
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: but about how it improves cognitive function. The sleep thing,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: though it is very recent, right.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the sleep thing was in the last year. There
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: is some literature on traumatic brain injury where twenty grams
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: of creatine for six months doubles the rate of healing.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: WHOA, that's incredible.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: But it's yeah, the field is in its infancy. But
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I think that I actually almost a decade ago, did
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: a podcast on just creating. I called it more than
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: a performance enhancer, because there's if you just look at
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: where it's distributed in the body, almost every cell and
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: every tissue has the creatine system, and so it really
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: is this and if you look at the literature, they'll say, well,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: it's more important in certain cells, Like it's really important
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: in your muscles, because your muscles have this very polarized
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: sometimes they're at rest, sometimes their energy demand is going
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: through the roof, and it's really important in like long cells.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: So for example, your retina is part of your central
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: nervous system. It's really long cell that's coming from the
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: brain into the eye, and creatine helps move energy back
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and forth. But if you just look at where instead
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: of where is it most important, just like where is it?
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: It's almost every cell in your body has creatine and
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: it's helping distribute the energy that the mitochondria make throughout
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: your whole body. And that includes pumping stomach acid, it
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: includes sperm swimming up the vaginal canal. And so if
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: you just look at where it is, you would think
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: think that creatine would help a lot more than muscles.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And it just turns out that all you need to
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: do is start studying it to start seeing those effects.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: Is there any studies on creatine and improvement of eyesight.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure. They're not that I know of.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Because that kind of makes sense, right, I mean.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: It makes complete sense, Like you would when it comes
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: down to it, Your your ability to produce energy is
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: maintaining and repairing everything in your body, So you would
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: expect to see anything that does improve your energy, metabolism,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: improve literally everything. So it'd be kind of shocking if
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: you had no effect on that. But I'm not sure
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: if there are good trials done that, I haven't seen them.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Speaking of improving eyesight, I started doing red light about
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: I guess about a year and a half two years ago.
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: Got a red light bed and completely stopped whatever macular
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: degeneration I was going through and reverse some of it.
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: So I don't have perfect vision, but my vision's better,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: Like it's definitely better. And it's not just through the
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: red light. It's also it's got to be some of
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the supplements that I'm taking. One of them, I take
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: a supplement from pure encapsulations, no affiliations with them, I
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: just buy it. It's called macular support and we'll see
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: what's got in there. It's got loutine and a few
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: other supplements that have been known to.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: That'll do it. Is that it well, yeah, I mean
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: so with the red light, it is very interesting. Whenever
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: you think of red light, you want to think of
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: your mitochondria because the main thing that we know about
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: red near infrared and far infrared that they're doing is
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: they're actually going straight into the mitochondrial engines that produce
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: the energy and helping them produce more. And they're also
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: ordering the water structure inside the mitochondria to make those
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: engines produce energy more easily. And there was a study
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: a few months ago that it was just like one
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: day study, but it showed that blasting people in the
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: chest with red light improved their eyesight when it was
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: measured the next day. And they covered their eyes to
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: make sure that the red light didn't go into the eye.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: And so the conclusion is it's not a clinical study, right,
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: and it's not like a one year How does it
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: you know, does it really improve your eyesight over one year?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: We don't know, but it shows proof of principle that
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: red light is doing something systemically that does not have
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: to go to your eye. That does improve your vision.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And to me that makes sense because your vision is
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: going to be improved by anything that acts directly in
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: your eye to improve energy production. But you've got coordinated
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: energy metabolism going on through your whole body, like your
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: liver is doing tons of stuff to try to make
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: your eyes healthy and make your brain healthy and so on.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: So it makes a lot of a lot of sense.
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: But that so I don't doubt at all that the
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: bed is part of that. But the lutine and zeaxanthin
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: are well known to accumulate in the macula, where they
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: have a very specific role in protecting against macular degeneration.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: And actually the best source of those is egg yolks
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: from chickens that are fed anything that has them, but
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: marigolds are super high in them. So if they feed
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: the chickens marigolds, they get super high levels and the
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: egg yolk has fat that helps them get absorbed. So
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: in terms of I mean this is this is you
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: could take this with some eggs, but but.
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: I would should feed my chickens marigolds. Yeah, if you
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: have if you.
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: Have chickens, and if you're and if you're spending your
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: money on a on a lutine za's anthon supplement, you
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: might as you might be able to get a maybe
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: the marigolds are cheaper.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just double it up. Ye, So this is
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: all the ingredients. Does this stuff make sense? Is something
• 10:50
  Speaker 1: that would help support eyes height?
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: It does? I mean the vitamin A is going to Uh,
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: that's going to depend on your netics in terms of
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: how good are you at converting beta keratine into the
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: into the form of vitamin A that we need, which
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: is most abundant in liver and egg yolks.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: It's depended on genetics.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, so there's you need.
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: Uh.
• 11:16
  Speaker 2: Beta keratine is this big and if you chop it
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: in half, you get vitamin A. And so you have
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: an enzyme in your digestive system that does that. But
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: that enzyme is dependent on a lot of things going right.
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: So you need to have good zinc status, good iron status,
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: good thyroid status, and all kinds of stuff like that.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: And actually, seed oils decrease the conversion, so if you
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: if you take that with canola oil, you're gonna get
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: less vitamin A out of it. Then if you take
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: it with you know, eggs and butter, and then vitamin
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: A activation is also dependent on mitochondrial function too, so
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: I think, you know, but it makes sense. Vitamin A
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: is great for your eye, Vitamin C is a great antioxidant,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: and a cels great antioxidant. The glue to thione at
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: the cerea stuff, I'm I'm kind of I think it's
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: I think it's a little bit of a over overhyped
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: in terms of some you know, another type of glutathion
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: I think would have worked. Fine.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: What's the best glutathion? Well, it's the.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: Best glutathion is the glutathion that you make yourself from
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: protein that you eat. But if you're gonna supplement with
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: glue to thione there, I don't if you're talking about
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: bang for the buck. I just think straight up glue
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: tothione is is good. And there are studies suggesting that
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: there's marginal absorption benefits for certain special types, you know,
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: but then they charge three times as much for that type,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: and it's like, well, am I getting three times more
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: glutathion out of it? Not really? So, you know, some
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: people swear by leposomic glutathion, and if some you know,
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: if you swear by it, and if it does it's
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: same for you.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Great, I think it's better.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I think the jury is out on whether there might
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: be ten twenty percent better value for those things. So
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: if I'm if I'm gonna take glutathion, I'm just gonna
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: take gluethion.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Got it? Okay? Is that what you're saying about producing
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: your own gluethion. That's the same thing as like vitamin D, right,
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: it's way better when your body produces it if it does.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, I I don't think there's anything wrong with
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: getting vitamin D from food, but you don't. The thing is,
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: you do need sunlight, right, So it's you at least
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: need to get thirty thirty minutes of sunshine the morning,
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: which is not going to give you vitamin D, and
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: then you need to get like ten or fifteen minutes
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: of unprotected sunshine in the afternoon to get you get
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: vitamin D from that, but you get other benefits from
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: it as well, So I wouldn't say that there that
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: it's necessarily better to get the vitamin D from the
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: sun than from a vitamin D supplement or from eating
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: fish or from eating colver oil. But you don't wanna.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: You don't want to say, well, I don't need to
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: go out out in the sun. I'm just gonna take
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: Vitamin D. Then you're not gonna get the benefits of
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: the sun, because the sun gives you other benefits, got it. Yeah?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Is there anything that you can do, say, if you
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: live in Seattle and you're in the winter, it's just
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: raining constantly, Is there a tanning bed that gives you
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: some of that? Yeah?
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: I do think that there is there is some risk
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: of tanning beds. I'm not one hundred percent comfor I.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: When I lived in New York, I would try to
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: spend forty minutes in the afternoon sunshine for three quarters
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: of the year, and during the winter the UV index
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: just wasn't high enough, and I get exima in the
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: winter because I'm not getting enough sun, and so I
• 14:53
  Speaker 2: would use a tanning bed not to get tann but
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I'd use like two three minutes at a time, just
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: because it just had a systemic effect in like preventing
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: the exema that I would get in the winter. I
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: think you have to be careful with it because there
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: is some concern that it's that people are just if
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: they're tanning to tan, they're they're gonna wind up with
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: too much damage to their skin. But what I would
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: do is for morning sunlight, I think you can get
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: like a lux meter app and just some people are
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: some people they think that it's there's no sun outside,
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: but actually it's like one hundred times or a thousand
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: times brighter than indoors and their eyes are adjusting and
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: so it's like cloudy or overcast. But there's still a
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: lot of value in going outside. So I would say
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: if you use a lux meter and it's like under
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: ten thousand, you could get a like a light therapy
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: light at home to use to just like turn it
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: on and not look straight into it, but kind of
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: have it going into your eyes. And then for vitamin
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: D could you could do like tanning bed but just
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: try to re keep it minimal, like going going for
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: two or three minutes, not like you're trying to tan.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: You're just what I was getting at. Is there a
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: different kind of tanning bed that's maybe?
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: Oh there are, yeah, so there are. There are different
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: ratios of wavelengths, and the ones that have more UVB
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: are the ones that are going to give you more
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: vitamin D. So if you're if you're just going to
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: a tanning bed place, you probably the staff there tell
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: them that you want like mixed wavelength that gives you
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: a mix of like surface tan and deep tan. I
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: think that's how they because they don't know the vitamin
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: D science. So I think that's how you have to
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: get the bed that gives.
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: You to of surface and deep. That's funny speaking of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: red light and speaking of therapy that helps your mitochondria.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: What is your thoughts on methylene blue Mathylene blue seems
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to be a very controvert supplement. Some people think it's
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: amazing and it's a panacea for all that ails you
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: and other people are like, what are we doing here?
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: Why are you putting dyeing your body? Your piss is
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: coming out blue? This is weird. What school are you in?
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: Methylene blue is something that could do wonders for your
• 17:17
  Speaker 2: mitochondria if you need it, and could really hurt you
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: if you don't. And I think that there are there
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: are certainly a lot of people raving about it on
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: the Internet, and it's because there's a mix of things.
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: So there are people that are treating themselves for a
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: problem in their mitochondria that they don't know that they have,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: and then they get an outsized voice because they're the
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: ones raving about how much it helped them. And so
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: there's like selection. You know, if you don't get if
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: people didn't get a benefit or if they just felt
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: a little worse, they don't go raving about it on
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: the internet as much. So that's part of it. There
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: is also a part of it is that when you
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: get up to a dose of around ten milligrams or
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: so per day for perspective, in clinical trials of Alzheimer's
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: are using two hundred milligrams, but you can buy like
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: a point five milligram on Amazon, so a lot of
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: people are using like point five miligrams. But once you
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: get up to ten milligrams or so, you're getting some
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: degree of pharmacological antidepressant effect because it's anmo oxidase monoamine
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: oxidase inhibitor. And so I do think that there are
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: some people who are there like, oh, I feel so
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: much better, and it's like, yeah, bro, you're taking an antidepressent.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: So that's that's part of it. But if you look
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: at what it actually does, it is a very non
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: specific rewirer of how your mitochondria produce energy. And if
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: you can think of it, like, let's say there's a
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: main road in the city and it's the best road
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: and that's why everyone's on it, but it's blocked and
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: then they set up detours. People are good, they're gonna
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: help the traffic because that road is blocked. There's you
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: actually can't get through there, and so the side road
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: that would take you somewhere actually better because they're not blocked. Right,
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: So in the context where you need the detours, the
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: detours help you. But if the main road was not
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: blocked and they start putting up detour signs and people
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: start going out in the side roads, they're not going
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: to get to their destination faster. They're just getting tricked
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: by the mass the chaos that was created by people
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: putting up detour signs that they didn't need. So methylene
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: blue is something that goes into your mitochondria and sets
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: up detoor signs all over the place.
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: And how does it do that?
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: So it uh all right? So what your mitochondria do
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: to produce energy is they extract they you know, you
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: have a molecule like carbohydrate or an amino acid from
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: the protein that you ate, or fatty acid from the
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: butter you're eating. You got to break that apart. You
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: got to take out the energy, and you got to
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: synthesize ATP with it. The ATP is the general energy
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: currency of the cell. So mitochondria produce usable energy from
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: food in the form of ATP. When they do that,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: they have a bunch of different path a bunch of
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: different pathways through which electrons flow, and methylene blue is
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: able to grab those electrons and put them somewhere else,
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: so it they call it a redoc cycler. So it's
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: taking an electron here, it's shuttling it over there. It's
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: taking electron here, it's shuttling over there. And so if
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: you have this very let's say the normal way for
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: your mitochondria produce energy has a main road where the
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: electrons just flow straight through. Methylene blue is coming in
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: and it's just you know, taking that electron over here.
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: It's throwing it in over there, and so on. So
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: if you've got a road that goes like this, and
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: you've got a blockage right here, and methylene blue is
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: just taking something out there and it's putting it over
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: there you actually wind up getting better energy with it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: But if you don't have a blockage, you're just creating
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: random chaos in the mitochondria. And they're in the animal experiments.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: What they've done is they've said, Okay, let's give these
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: animals inhibitors of their mitochondria at specific locations and see
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: what methylene blue does. And if you don't have any inhibitors,
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: and if the animal is genetically healthy, then you add
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: methylene blue. They get less ATP, so the mitochondria is
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: less effective at converting food to usable energy. But if
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: they do have an inhibitor, their ATP production goes down.
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: You add methylene blue goes back up, right. So if
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: there's a blockage to get around, methylene blue helps. So
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I think what's important if you really want to make
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: sure that people are using methylene blue right is to
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: actually do mitochondrial testing that will tell you whether there
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: was specific blockages are there. I ran a biochemical optimization
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: program a while back, and one of the clients that
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: I had in there, he tried methylene blue and he
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: only got up to a half a milligram or a milligram,
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: and his mood was worse. His fatigue was worse. He
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: had more anxiety a problems that you know, the dose
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: was too low to say it was doing a pharmacological
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: messing with his neurotransmitters, and so I think it was
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: just making his mitochondrial function worse. And so the chondrial
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: testing that we did on him showed that, you know,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: he was not a candidate for methylene blue and he
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: actually had you know, some really weird like his mitochondria
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: were best at using a specific amino acid cysteine and
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: for energy kind of weird in idiosyncratic and in his
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: case it was interesting because he had actually gravitated to
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: a steak only carnivore diet and he didn't feel like
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: it fixed him, but he felt like it you know,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: took the edge off, like he was fifty percent better
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: on the stake only carnivore diet and that well it's yeah,
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: it's a lot, right, but he wanted the other fifty percent.
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: That's why he was coming to me. Yeah, so so
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: what was you know, and the figuring this out didn't
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: get him to one hundred percent, but it got him
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: to you know, to get days with seventy five percent
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: because you know, because he could use strategic systeine supplementation
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: to mimic the benefit he was getting from the stake,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: but he would be able to, you know, be still
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: in the fasting state because his workouts were better in
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: the fasting state and things like that. So so figuring
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: that out allowed him to, you know, get from fifty
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: percent to seventy five percent, but the methylene blue was
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: putting him down at five percent instead of fifty.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: You know, Can I ask how old he was?
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: He wasn't that old. He was in maybe forty I
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: forget exactly, but forty give or take five years.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: And is that an age dependent thing like mitochondrial dysfunction?
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: Is it more common in older people?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Uh? For sure? So what I mean? I would argue
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: that mitochondrial dysfunction and aging are the same thing. And
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: you know, there's a bunch of theories of aging, but
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: if you take them all, you can always ask a
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: question why. There's like the information theory of aging, like
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: why is the information not not being carried out correctly?
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: Or the oxidative stress theory of aging, why are you
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: making more oxidative stress? And I actually think, I actually
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: think it's way more simple than anyone is thinking about it,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: it's mitochondrial energy production, is producing everything in your body,
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: is repairing it, it's maintaining it, and it's putting where
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: it belongs. That means that mitochondria produced the energy that
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: they need to produce everything in the mitochondria, right, And
• 24:21
  Speaker 2: so if you have a little gap in your energy production,
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: like let's say you get I think one way to
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: think of aging is well, I've just I've suffered through
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: so many cumulative insults, like I got sick so many times,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I got injured so many times. I had days where
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: I didn't eat optimal nutrition so many times. And I
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: think what all those things are doing is like, well,
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: you know that period of overtraining that you did, your mitochondria,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: we were forced to help you, give you the energy
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: for you know, that the extra set of squats that
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: you did, and they had a little bit left over
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: for themselves, and they got, you know, a half a
• 24:59
  Speaker 2: percent worse at producing energy. And so that sets up
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: a vicious cycle because now now that they could not
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: repair themselves as well, now they get a little bit
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: of worse and get a little bit worse. And what
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: you see in the literature is that as people age
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: starting around age eighteen through age seventy to eighty, you're
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: losing your mitochondria function an average rate of one percent
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: per year. So by the time you're seventy, you have
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: half the energy that you started out with that baseline,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: and that I think what explains that is is just
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: the vicious cycle of the mitochondria got they lost a
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: quarter percent here, a quarter percent there, and they just
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: started repairing themselves less effectively because they're the engines fueling
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: everything including that and so but you know, the good
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: news is that age only explains twenty five percent of
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: mitochondria function. So it's the average that's going down at
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: one percent per year. The average person and is half
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: producing half the energy at age seventy than they were
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: at age eighteen. But the spread around that is huge.
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: And with that, to me, the way that I spin
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: that is that means that seventy five percent of this
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: isn't under your control. You're going to you're going to
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: go in a downward trend, but you're in control of
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: whether you know you're way under shooting that trend or
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: you're way overshooting it. What you want to do is
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: make your mitochondria function as good as it can be
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: at any given age, so that that downward trend will,
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: you know, it'll be a lot slower, and you can
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: get to age seventy and you're not docked fifty percent,
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: you're just docked ten percent. And I think that's what's
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: happening when you see somebody seven year olds who who
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: you know, are more fit than a lot of twenty
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: five year olds. You know.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, interesting. So what are the primary factors in regards
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: to being able to maintain your function?
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that everyone has idiosyncrat things, and I
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: think mitochondrial testing is very important. But if I were
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: to pick five things that just everyone should be doing
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: for their mitochondria, a lot of it does look like
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: health advice you might get somewhere else, but it actually
• 27:14
  Speaker 2: is the best stuff. Right. So we mentioned creatine, and
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: I think creatine is really important because it's not in
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: the mitochondria so much as it carries forth the mitochondrial
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: energy the rest of the cell that also feeds back
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: in the repair functions for the mitochondria. And so I
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: think creatine optimizing your creatine status is super important. And
• 27:33
  Speaker 2: I think that everyone who's not eating one or two
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: pounds of meat per day should be should probably be
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: taking creatine. And you can think of it as if
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: you're eating red meat and you're eating it rare, you
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: can err on the side of one pound. And if
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: you're eating and I would include as red meat salmon,
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: which is like a reddish fish and is actually quite
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: high in creating. If you're eating white meat white fish
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: and you're eating eating it well done, you want to
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: err on the side of two pounds because you're losing.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: They don't have as much creatine. Then you cook the
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: creatine out of them and you wind up with much
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: lower dose.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: We should probably say salmon, you're talking about wild salmon
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: versus farm salmon, which has a dyed pink skin.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Well, it's not the red color. I think it's coincidence
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: that it's that it's I think the red color is coincidence.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: It's just a helpful way to think about it. But
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: it probably is the case at least like every Atlantic
• 28:34
  Speaker 2: farm salmon that I've seen. Is you can tell that
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: it's it's well if you look up in database. Its
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: way higher in fat, but you can tell by looking
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: at it that it just doesn't have that lean look
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: that wild salmon has so I think creatine is a
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: function of the lean tissue mass. And and it might
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: be the case that wild salmon are doing a lot
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: more swimming like may the wild environment is encouraging them
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: to use their muscles in a way that increases their
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: creatine SyncE. This is that wouldn't be surprise It wouldn't
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: surprise me. I have tried to steal man the case
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: of could there be a vegan diet that would make
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: you not need to supplement with creatine? And the steel
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: man that I've got for you is you'd have to
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: be eating a half a kilogram of tofu and a
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: half a kilogram of keenwapper day and that's not typically
• 29:24
  Speaker 2: what and that might rip a hole in your digestive system,
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: but that's but that's not.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: So.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I think that most vegans should probably just supplement with
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: creating and could call it a day. There. So that's creatine.
• 29:40
  Speaker 2: I we mentioned h sunlight, So sunlight is when you
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: wake up in the morning. I said before that you
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: might have condria have not gone to sleep literally, but
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: they've really slowed down there. It's like they're on a
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: nap and there's a transition when you wake up where
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: the mitochondria have to say, oh, you've woken up, now
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: I need to I need to wake up and I
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: need to start producing more energy. And sunlight going into
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: your eyes being translated into your brain is the signal
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: that actually tells your brain to organize that. And so
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: what happens as a result of that is that signaling
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: helps your mitochondria adapt and start producing everything, and it
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: actually helps them adjust. And if you don't have the
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: morning sunlight, you are you're going to have your mornings
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: full of suboptimal energy metabolism that is initiating that that
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: vicious cycle of aging. Is that's what I believe. And
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: then and then it's also the case that the red
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: and infrared light from the sun is very beneficial to
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: the mitochondria. The best time to get that would be
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: in the morning. When you go out in the afternoon,
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: you've got to deal with like can I get two
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: hours of this without getting burned? But if you go
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: out in the morning, you can stay out there for
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: one or two hours and you can get a lot
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: of red and infra red light without worrying about burning
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: burning wavelengths. And then I think the beds and other
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: devices at home are great, And where you want to
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: start thinking about that is, I'm getting benefit from red
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: and urine for a light, but I'm getting more. I
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: know that I could get more benefit if I got
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: more of it than I'm able to get through sunlight.
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: So start getting those wavelengths with sunlight as your base,
• 31:34
  Speaker 2: and then do whatever you want on top of that
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: with whatever seems to be working well for you. Then
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: nutrition would be number three. And every nutrient is needed
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: for everything in your body, but your mitochondria are using
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: all kinds of nutrients. And there's this idea that floats
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: around in society that nutritional deficiencies are a thing of
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: the past. But if you just look at surveys, ninety
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: three percent of Americans are getting less than they need
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: of at least one nutrient, thirty percent have verifiable blood
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: markers of at least one nutritional deficiency, and six percent
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: have blood markers verifying more than one nutrient deficiency. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I think those are all underestimates because when you're just
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: looking at the official stats on like how much of
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: each nutrient should you eat, there a way there are
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: a lot of people that have needs for way more right,
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: So I think those stats are grossly underestimating how many
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: people need to get better nutrition. So I think everybody
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: should be getting better nutrition. And to kind of high
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: level what that looks like, I think some good rules
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: of there's lots of ways to skin a cap, but
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: some good rules of thumb are different. People will do
• 32:52
  Speaker 2: better with more plants or more animals, but to when
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: you do eat animals, you should be eating them nose
• 32:57
  Speaker 2: to tail, so at least try to work in liver
• 33:00
  Speaker 2: or at least try to work in bone broth or
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: you know, something like that. The closer to nose to
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: tail you can eat your animals, the better do. Try
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: to diversify across proteins, because there's just different vitamin and
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: mineral profiles in different types of protein. Like if you
• 33:15
  Speaker 2: can eat shellfish, eat some shellfish. If you can eat fish,
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: eat some fish. You can eat dairy, eat some dairy,
• 33:20
  Speaker 2: And the more you diversify across those proteins, the better.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Most people don't eat enough protein. Good rule of thumb
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: would be at least a third of your plate should
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: be protein. But if it's if you're talking like eggs
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: and dairy products, you've got to double that because they
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: just the amount of space that they occupy per per
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: unit of protein that they're giving you is you know,
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: a third of your plate as eggs is not going
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: to give you enough protein. And then I think try
• 33:49
  Speaker 2: to eat as broadly as you can from different types
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: of carbohydrates. If you have to leave out something, leave
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: out grains, try to eat whole on processed foods, and
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: try to eat most if you're try to eat eighty
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: percent of your foods cooked at home or prepped at
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: home or whatever instead of eating out, and make sure
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: your digestion is in good order. And those are kind
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: of the you know, the broad basis of nutrition and
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: exercise is a very interesting one. So if you exercise
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: is incredibly important to the signaling that produce mitochondria. But
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: why is that. It's because you need mitochondria to pre
• 34:35
  Speaker 2: energy for the exercise that you're doing. So I think
• 34:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are too reductionist when they look
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: at what type of exercise should you do for your mitochondria.
• 34:43
  Speaker 2: If you try to do a study that says like
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I'm trying to get more mitochondria in my skeletal muscle,
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: what's what exercise going to do it? You're gonna do it,
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: you're gonna see endurance exercise outperforming other things. And that's
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: because endurance activity requires more mitochondrial function in the muscle.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: If you're doing like hypertrophy or strength training and you're
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: doing short sets, your muscle's burning a lot of glycogen,
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: it's less dependent on it's mitochondria, so you're not going
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: to see the mitochondria function there. But that doesn't mean
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: you're not improving mitochondrial function, because now all that really
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: means is the liver is stepping up to assist the muscle.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: Like if you're doing sprinting, your muscle's burning through tons
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: of carbohydrates, making a lot of lactate. If that lactate's
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: not being metabolized in the skeletal muscle, it's going to
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: the liver to get converted back to glucose. So your
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: liver now you're training your liver's mitochondria. When you're doing
• 35:34
  Speaker 2: strength training, you're doing hypertrophy. So I think the right
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: way to look at it is just you should be
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: exercising all the things that are functions that you need
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: to keep and that means endurance. It means strength, it
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: means mobility, it means agility. It means balance, it means purpeception,
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: it means being able to respond to your environment. I think,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: you know, to some degree, like just playing a sport
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: that has other people in it is important because if
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: someone's throwing a frisbee and you need to react to that,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: you're training mitochondria and your brain that are able to
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: energize the systems that provide your reaction time. And I
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: think cognitive, you know, exercise for your brain is things
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: like working on your memory and on your creative synthesis
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: and all those different aspects. And I do think that
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of people are thinking about this when they're
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: twenty five. They're like, well, I don't care if I
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: can memorize a string of twenty five numbers, but you're
• 36:29
  Speaker 2: gonna care if you can't remember anything when you're seventy five,
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: you know. So I think that we really need a
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: broad thought about this. But but by the way, do
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: you know what athletes live the longest from the from
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: the pros?
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: Let me give baseball.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: So it's actually gymnasts and pole vaulters have have eight
• 36:54
  Speaker 2: years on the general population. And if you if you
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: look at there was a study that came out earlier
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: this year, and it tallied up all of the pro
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: sports players from all of the countries who had the
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: dates of their death published and who were notable enough
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: to have been had an article published about them, and
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: so they had many hundreds. I forgot the exact sample size,
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: but they were able to statistically adjust the mortality rate
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: to the general population from which the athlete came, so
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: you know, if it was a Greek athlete, they were
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: adjusted to the mortality rate of Greece. They when they
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: died like what you would expect after adjusting for location
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: and age and so on. And in the male athletes,
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: you had gymnasts and pole vaulters with eight years on
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: the population, and you've got cyclists who and of course
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: you've got sumos suma wrestlers are ten years below. And
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: you have a lot of sports like that have high
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: injury rates that are especially a lot of stuff that
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: has impacts to the hands, martial arts and things like that.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: We're probably the sport itself and its impact on training
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: your body's energy systems is positive, but just the injury
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: rate is taking you out. So you're kind of like
• 38:21
  Speaker 2: not you're kind of in the middle. You're very close
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: to the general population. Cyclists only have two years on
• 38:28
  Speaker 2: the general population, And so what I thought was interesting.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: I think a few things are interesting about that. So,
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: first of all, there's a lot of people in the
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: longevity space are taking most of their information about how
• 38:40
  Speaker 2: they should train for longevity from people who specialize in cycling.
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: So well, yeah, I'm not going to name names, but
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: there's you know, a lot of there's the people out
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: there who are you know, that's where it's coming from.
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: And I you know, it makes a lot of sense
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: that cycling is, you know, it's good for cardio respiratory fitness.
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of data that having good cardi respiratory
• 39:00
  Speaker 2: fitness it's a key factor for longevity. But when you
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: look at a study where gymnasts and pole vaulters have
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: six extra years on the cyclists and the cyclists only
• 39:08
  Speaker 2: have two extra years on the general population, I'm like, huh, what,
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: you know, it's not all about the cardiorespiratory fitness. And
• 39:17
  Speaker 2: so when I think about there's it's you know, it's
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: an observational study. You can't prove cause and effect, but
• 39:22
  Speaker 2: it just does make you think. And the way that
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: I think about that is a few things. So first
• 39:26
  Speaker 2: of all, the commonalities between gymnasts and pole vaulters, they're
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: It's definitely not height because gymnasts tend to be short
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: and pole alters are tall, and so the height cancels out. Definitely,
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: they're fit. They do both have. It is interesting that
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: they have. You know, cyclists have a good lower body
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: and gymnasts and pole vulters have a good upper body.
• 39:51
  Speaker 2: So I do think that's interesting that it does make
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: you It does make you wonder if you could skip
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: legg day. I don't advocates geting like day, but to me,
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: like what I think is actually going on here is
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: I think that functionality of movement throughout the whole body
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: to facilitate very, to facilitate the kind of skills that
• 40:20
  Speaker 2: they have is training. Is training things that are getting
• 40:27
  Speaker 2: left out when you just make sure that your heart
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: and lungs are able to support your running or your cycling.
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: And I think that some of those involve are probably related.
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: I don't know what they're not dying of, So presumably
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: they're getting less heart disease or getting less cancer, and
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: they're getting less neurological disease because that's what people are
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: dying of. Right, Like, in the average, if you get
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: far enough for someone to analyze why you died, you
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: know they're like diabetes and hip fractures and things like
• 40:57
  Speaker 2: that are hitting younger people. But in general, if people
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: are dying because they got old, they're dying of heart
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: disease first, cancer second, and neurologic, like they outlive those
• 41:06
  Speaker 2: two things. You get this diverse spread of things that
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: people die of and neurologic diverse neurological diseases becomes pretty heavy.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: So I think cardiospiratory fitness is probably the biggest thing
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: in preventing heart disease. But cancer becomes very interesting because
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: there was a there was a study in rodents that
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: showed that stretching prevents tumor growth, and I thought this
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: was wild. I first heard about this on one of
• 41:36
  Speaker 2: Huberman's shows, and so I looked up the study and
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: I was like, this is wild, because I happen to
• 41:42
  Speaker 2: know some other things about immune function. So one thing
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: is that when when in T cells, which are important
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: both to prevent infections and are also important because they
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: attack you during autoimmunity, and they're also important because because
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: they kill cancer for T cells to be activated. What
• 42:04
  Speaker 2: they do is they don't have enough energy themselves, so
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: they push off the local environment, and that pushing off
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: creates motor proteins inside that generate the energy to activate
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: the T cell. And what cancers do is they modify
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: their extracellular environment to compromise that because it's harder for
• 42:28
  Speaker 2: the T cell to push off of it. Now, I
• 42:31
  Speaker 2: know another thing from Crohn's research, which is that the
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: best way to cure Crone's disease besides some of the
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: drugs that they're on, is a liquid diet. And the
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: recent research on how the liquid diet works is that
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: it removes the pressure in the intestine that is pushing
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: out and is causing inflammation to activate and attack the body. Right,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: So I'm synthesizing these three things, and I'm like, this
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: makes a lot of sense that the relative proportions and
• 43:02
  Speaker 2: how stretched out and like what is the quality of
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: your joint tissue and things like that probably has a
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: lot of severely underappreciated causation in terms of cancer and
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: autoimmune disease. So I think it would be very interesting
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: to see if actual functional mechanical activity, like if you
• 43:26
  Speaker 2: optimize for functional mechanical activity, such that you can swing
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: around from acrobat from a trapeze and flip around in
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: the air and swinging on the rings and push yourself
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: up and stuff like that. Does that pay forward into
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: better immune function because your body is more properly structured.
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: I can't prove that, but I think it's very interesting
• 43:49
  Speaker 2: to think about for those two exercises. And then it
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: is very interesting to me that gymnasts and polevalters both
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: spend a lot of time upside down, and they don't
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: stay upside down for very long, but they just they
• 44:05
  Speaker 2: repeatedly are upside down quite a bit, right, And so
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: this is just again, this is all just hypothesizing interesting ideas, right.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: So one interesting idea is that a vibration plate is
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: the sedentary man's gymnastics and that you know, flipping upside
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: down is better at circulating body fluids than walking, and
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: like a vibration plate is better than walking, but actually
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: spending time in the upside down state and flipping around
• 44:41
  Speaker 2: is actually very good for circulating the fluids in your body.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I don't you know, I can't prove any of this,
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: but it's all very interesting to think about. But what
• 44:47
  Speaker 2: I can. What I kind of conclude from this is
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: you don't want to get sucked into just optimizing VO
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: two max or something like that. You really want to
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: The lesson from the gymnasts is like, what are all
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: the things that a gymnast can do that I can't do,
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: and I should be able to approximate them in the
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: best way that I can. And I take that a
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: little bit more more literally, So I actually do like
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: I am trying to convert all my workouts into what's
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: the gymnastic version of this?
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: And you think it's because of flipping. I'm just I'm
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: just I'm They're both involving coordination explosive movement.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Right, And I think the I think that, yes, So
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: I think this the skill training is is big for
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: spilloff into neurological disease because but I'm just trying to
• 45:44
  Speaker 2: connect them to the three things. So I like, like,
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure exactly what they have lower rates of
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: death from me. We need more studies to see that.
• 45:51
  Speaker 1: But the.
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: But the body mechanics, I think is a very interesting
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: possible explanation of why they have lower rates of cancer.
• 46:01
  Speaker 2: And the what you just said, I think is a
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: great explanation of why they would have lower rates of
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: neurological disease. And I think it's kind of like, you know,
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: if you look at I think another thing that people
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: mistake in the longevity spaces they spend too much time
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: thinking about like reverse engineering one hundred backwards, what do
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: I want to not have lost by that time, and
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: not enough time just being in peak function. Because if
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: you look at bone mass, for example, bone mass goes
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: up until you're in your mid twenties, maybe twenty five
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: to thirty. There's a little bit difference with men and women,
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: but then it just goes down after that. And if
• 46:43
  Speaker 2: you want to have good bone mass when you're seventy five,
• 46:46
  Speaker 2: the most important asset you could possibly have is to
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: have really good peak bone mass when you're twenty five, Right,
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: So I really think that, like it's just like I
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: said before. You might not think memorizing a string of
• 46:59
  Speaker 2: twenty five numbers is important at any age, but you know,
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna have really awesome peak memory, that gives
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: you a lot of room to decline later on. Whereas
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: if you're trying to reverse engineer, like what you don't
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: want to be able to not remember when you're seventy five,
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: I think you're just setting the bar way too low,
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: right sore. If you're twenty, you should be thinking about,
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: like what are all the sports I can't do and not?
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with picking
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: a sport, but I do think it's it would be
• 47:33
  Speaker 2: good for everyone when they're young enough to do so
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: to just try a different sport once a year, and
• 47:39
  Speaker 2: maybe they don't love it, they don't fall in love
• 47:41
  Speaker 2: with it, but maybe they learn something like oh I
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: didn't realize I couldn't do that. So, for example, I
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: did last year, I did a little bit of BJJ,
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: and I did a little bit of boxing, and I
• 47:53
  Speaker 2: was like, god damn, Like my feet don't move like
• 47:55
  Speaker 2: they used to in boxing and in BJJ, getting a
• 48:00
  Speaker 2: little dizzy doing forward and backward roles. I was like,
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: I don't spend enough This is before I started thinking
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: about the gymnast being upside down, but like, I don't
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: spend enough time being upside down. So it's like, so
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: I bought some mats and then now I just you know,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I do I do one forward and backward role every day,
• 48:14
  Speaker 2: no matter I don't do b to day right now,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: but I just do what forward and backward role every
• 48:18
  Speaker 2: day is part of my morning routine. But I've also switched,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: like I was like, why would I overhead press when
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: I could try to do I can do wall push
• 48:26
  Speaker 2: ups now. My hope is by next year I'll be
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: able to do handstamp push ups. But I've I'm working
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: on a handstand right now, so we'll see how that goes.
• 48:33
  Speaker 2: But I think just because you can focus on one thing,
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: you can really miss out that, like, oh, my favorite
• 48:43
  Speaker 2: workout activities, don't I mean, this is how many people
• 48:47
  Speaker 2: are doing all their favorite workout routine activities and forgetting
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: that they don't have any rotation, they don't have any
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: side bending, you know, like like if if you would
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: just you just like try a different sport and be like,
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: oh what am what did I not realize I wasn't
• 49:00
  Speaker 2: able to do at all, and and then pick that
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: and put it in your workout, you know, because if
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: you've got a great programmer, then maybe your workout is perfect.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: But I think most of us are can like we
• 49:11
  Speaker 2: gravitate towards some of the exercises that we think are
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: good and even if even if you think you're mixing
• 49:16
  Speaker 2: it up like CrossFit. CrossFit managed to eliminate rotation from
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: everything like that, Like every sport that involves throwing a
• 49:23
  Speaker 2: ball involves rotation, right, well.
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: They do. Sometimes they throw the ball sideways against a wall.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: There's there's some rotation in.
• 49:31
  Speaker 2: Maybe they worked it in. When I did CrossFit the
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: ball throwing, we did really wall balls, and so it was.
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Like depends, I think it depends entirely on who's teaching it.
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: But yeah, then you're doing windmills, windmills or form of rotation.
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of ab exercises they do that are rotational.
• 49:48
  Speaker 2: All right, So that maybe that wasn't fair. But but
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: my point is that like a lot, a lot, a
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: lot of a lot of people are not doing any
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: rotation right right, and and so I just I just
• 50:01
  Speaker 2: you just want to tap into that that diversity of
• 50:04
  Speaker 2: like what functions am I not exercising when I exercise them?
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: When we're talking about skills, we're talking about the neurological
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: system and the cognitive system synergistically in a dance. When
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: you talk about old people, and one of one of
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: the things that happens when cognitive function declines is you
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: you lose your ability to do puzzles. And one of
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: the ways to stave that off, they believe, is like
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: do crosswords, do a bunch of different things, your chess,
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: do something that's actively making your mind fire and work.
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't it just make sense that a skill versus just
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: a workout, just bench pressing and squats and stuff like that,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: But it's an actual skill where you're doing like muay
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: Thai hitting pads or even light sparring, that you're you're
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: thinking as well as exercising, which is very different because
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: you're you're con you're con anxiously aware of your opponent's movement,
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: you're calculating it, you're trying to time things. There's a
• 51:07
  Speaker 1: whole dance going on between your body and your mind
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: that doesn't really exist in straight workouts alone. I would
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: think would fight off a lot of the age related
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: decline in physical activity or physical function.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are you mentioned a couple things
• 51:25
  Speaker 2: in there, so I think it's a separate thing to
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: have a skill and to have strategy and to have
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: reaction time. But I think you definitely want to be
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: hitting all those bases, so I think it's good to
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: have a general checklist of what should you be exercising
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: and see that it takes strength and break it down
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: into the different planes and then also take skill strategy,
• 51:51
  Speaker 2: reaction time, agility, quickness, balance, power, and you have to
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: find a way to you know, it's hard to work
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: everything at once, but you got to find a way to.
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you cycle through switching your focus, but you
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: find like what is if I if I worked on
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: really being able to jump rope without tripping my feet
• 52:14
  Speaker 2: up last quarter, how am I going to take that
• 52:19
  Speaker 2: skill and not lose it? And so for me, for example,
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: like I really focused on jump roping when I realized
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: how horrible I was at it when I was forced
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: to do in boxing, and so I I would very
• 52:33
  Speaker 2: intensively tried to get good at jump roping. And now
• 52:36
  Speaker 2: I don't want to work on it anymore. But I've
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: just taken in like, Okay, every morning I have to
• 52:40
  Speaker 2: do fifty uninterrupted jump ropes just in the course of
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: my warm warm.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: Up, just to kind of keep whatever skills that you yeah, just.
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: To just to make sure that like I'm not losing
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: the basic capacity to do that that coordination. Yeah, and
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: if I start to then I realize I have to
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: work on it more.
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: M Yeah, new things I think would enhance that even more,
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: maybe than things that you're very comfortable with and things
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: you're very efficient at. Like say, if you're an athlete
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: in whatever sport and you say, you know, I'm going
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: to try jiu jitsu or I'm gonna try martial arts,
• 53:14
  Speaker 1: like something completely new like that where you're working out,
• 53:18
  Speaker 1: but you're really thinking because you've got to like really
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: concentrate it. It's not like a natural movement to throw
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: a sidekick. You have to really concentrate on picking your
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: knee up, twisting your body and all that jazz. Like
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: I think stuff like that, would you know, just keep
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: everything firing?
• 53:34
  Speaker 2: No, I think you Yeah, I mean I think you
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: should do a mix. Like you always want to be
• 53:40
  Speaker 2: pushing yourself to a new to new achievements. But then
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: you also, I think you want to structure things so
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: that you don't lose the ones that you that you did, right.
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of us go through life just
• 53:53
  Speaker 2: making achievement, losing it and treading motering going nowhere.
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: When I really got into jiu jitsu, I stopped doing
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: any kickboxing for a long time and every now and
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: then I would just hit the bag and just like, oh,
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: I still can do it. But then I started training
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: muytai again and it was kind of shocking how long
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: it took me to get like the flow back they're
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: like where it really like comes off smooth. Everything seemed
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: like a little labored, and it was just disheartening to like, oh,
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: I don't really have these skills, like I have to
• 54:25
  Speaker 1: like reacquire them. You know, I know how to do it,
• 54:28
  Speaker 1: I've done it, but it's just like right now, everything's little.
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: The pathways are filled with mud, you know what I mean.
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: It's not clean, it's not nice and sharp. Everything is
• 54:38
  Speaker 1: a little funky and you know, but if you want
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: to get good at jiu jitsu, you don't have time
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: for two hours of muay thai day. You just don't,
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: you know. So it's like you got to pick your poison.
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: You get to pick what you like which you don't like.
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think you have to decide what your
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: goal is and what your metric is. Like there's no
• 54:57
  Speaker 2: way that anyone is going to be good at like
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: seven and you know, going to be elite level at
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: any two sports or like great at any seven. Right,
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: So I think you have to say, like, Okay, do
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: I want to be really good at my tie and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: that and that's you don't have to do that to
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: have healthy aging, right, But there are things that you
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: do at my tie that you do have to be
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: able to do to have healthy aging. So if you're
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: just thinking about it from the perspective of how do
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: I know that I'm engaging in healthy aging, I think
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: you don't. You don't want to say like, oh, I
• 55:30
  Speaker 2: need to be I need to be as good as
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: I ever was at my tie. You just have to say, okay,
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: like what am Why am I bad at some of that?
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: And is that something that I need in general? And
• 55:39
  Speaker 2: I think oftentimes by doing something like that, you can
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: think about it and you can realize, oh, what I'm
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: what I really can't do is I'm not agile anymore.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: I really can't like shift my weight quickly anymore, or
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: I really can't like my reaction time is slow, Like
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: I just keep getting hit in the head because I
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: don't move it. You know, if you're realizing those things,
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: then I think you gotta you have to find some
• 56:02
  Speaker 2: way to train those because you need those for everything
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: and It's just it's easy to not challenge yourself in
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: life and don't realize what you're losing. So you do
• 56:11
  Speaker 2: have to challenge yourself with something you're not able to
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: do to figure out what you're weaken.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: One of the things I wanted to bring up you
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: brought up earlier. You were talking about martial artists and
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: perhaps like injuries accumulating over time and you lose some
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: of your function because of that, Like you mentioned hands,
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: hand injuries. Is that something that people need to take
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: in consideration that maybe they don't that maybe just physical damage,
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: like in terms of getting hit and physical damage perhaps
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: from overtraining, physical damage certainly from cutting weight. You know,
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: a lot of these guys cut weight and they're basically
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: on desk door twenty four hours before a fight, which
• 56:54
  Speaker 1: is I think completely insane and the most avoidable damaging
• 56:59
  Speaker 1: thing about martial arts competition, and yet it's ubiquitous. It's
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: like almost everyone does it.
• 57:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think there is a degree of
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: subjectivity to it. If you're you know, if your idea
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: of what a life well lived is is to win
• 57:16
  Speaker 2: an event that might have you die in the next
• 57:20
  Speaker 2: three years, then you know, how are you going to
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: argue with that that value that someone has adopted. But
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: if if you are thinking about it from the perspective
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: of how do I stay healthy through how do I
• 57:33
  Speaker 2: live a long healthy life, then injury prevention has to
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: be your number one consideration, not your number two. I
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: think even if you were just trying to see, say, like,
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: how how can I be the strongest I could be,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: you would still need injury prevention to be number one
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: because you know how many people take three months off
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: from a lift that they're working on and wind up
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: six months behind where they had been when they start
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: again as a result of that injury. And where would
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: they have been if they spent that six months getting stronger,
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: And if you're going to do that every two or
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: three years, like that's taking a lot, like a huge
• 58:13
  Speaker 2: toll off even the skill that you could develop and
• 58:17
  Speaker 2: your maximal capacity at that. But like I was saying
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: at the beginning, I really think that the simplest explanation
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: for why mitochondri function declines one percent per year and
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: gets cut in half by age seventy is just this, Like,
• 58:32
  Speaker 2: when I was injured, my mitochondria were completely obsessed with
• 58:36
  Speaker 2: healing from that injury and a little bit came out
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: of the account used to repair the home base.
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: That's what I was getting at.
• 58:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah, So for someone who's had like a like say
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: a martial artist who's had broken hands, broken ribs, knee surgery,
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: shoulder surgery, A lot of these guys have gone through
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff like that. Like so each one
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: of those things is taking a small toll.
• 58:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not something that people can consider. You can
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: you think, oh, you recovered from that injury. Now you're
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: one hundred percent, but you're one hundred percent with attacks
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: of having recovered from that injury.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And a lot of people aren't necessarily fully recovered
• 59:13
  Speaker 2: from the injury either.
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: Many many aren't. Many many aren't. You know.
• 59:17
  Speaker 2: I talked to a guy once who was, you know,
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: he got injured in marathon running and he he thought
• 59:28
  Speaker 2: he was recovered. I thought he wasn't recovered, and he
• 59:31
  Speaker 2: was thought he was there was some kind of metabolic
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: stuff wrong with him because he's getting sick all the time.
• 59:35
  Speaker 2: I'm like, bro, you didn't recover yet, Like what are
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: you doing going out and doing all that running?
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: Like what was the injury?
• 59:41
  Speaker 2: I don't remember the specific. I forgot the specific injury,
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: but one of one of the common running injuries.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the things that's really common in MMA
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: is someone getting knocked out and then getting knocked out
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: again because they come back too quickly. It happened recently
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: in a big fight. Uh. And it's just there's there's
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: a thing that happens with these guys where they just
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 1: want to get back in there and get a win,
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: and a lot of times they're like, I'll be ready,
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: I won't get hit again, I know what I did wrong.
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: I'll be better this time. But they're more vulnerable now,
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: like they can get knocked out. It is this just
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: neurological damage? Is this just a function of the concussion
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: or do you think it's a function of the concussion,
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: the recovery from it, and the diminishing capacity of the
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: body because it had to recover from that traumatic injury.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 2: I think it's all of those.
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: It's but that too, right, So it's not just the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: fact that you got knocked out and your brain is
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: more vulnerable now. It's like no, no, no, your body's more vulnerable.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: You're probably not as strong as you were, You're probably
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: not recovering as quickly.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, the brain is it's a small part
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 2: of the body, but it's massively outsized in terms of
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: the energy that it consumes. And so think about if
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: think about if you're you know, if you're actually healing,
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: the ability for it to like if it's just sucking
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 2: even more disproportionate energy from the body. And just think
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 2: about how much the rest of the body works to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 2: support the brain, like the livers working all day long
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: to make the brain get enough energy. So, yeah, there's
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: no way that healing from a brain injury is not
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 2: taking the toll systemically, that's impossible.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 1: But to accelerate or enhance that, creatine you think would
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: be a very good option.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, creatine is one of the ones that's been
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 2: demonstrated to do that, and it's been studied twenty grams
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: a day. I don't think anyone really knows, like do
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: you need twenty is thirty?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 1: Better?
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: Could have been done with five, But the most of
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: the brain research is being done with doses around twenty grams.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: And there's the thought is that the you know, the
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: muscles are going to take first DIBs and you need
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: to have a high dose to get it to the brain.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: There's a lot we don't know about that, but you know,
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: as a default, like if I was healing from a
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: traumatic brain injury, I would I would take the creatine
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: and then I you know, I think when if you
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: have something that's this serious, you do want to like
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: know what your limiting bottlenecks are. So I think actually
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: doing mitochondrial testing is that's like one of the applications
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 2: would be like, oh, now it's really important that I
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: have a six month window where I need to maximize
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: everything I can and so you know, testing to understand
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: your unique needs, I think would be it would be
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: a way to supercharge that process when it's needed. And
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: I think that there are and you know, so to
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 2: take this back to to like what can people do
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: in general, I think methylene blue you mentioned is one
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: of those ones where like I wouldn't even I personally
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: wouldn't even take it without testing showing that I need it.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: But coq ten is an interesting one because coquo ten
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: is actually made in the body and it is found
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: in food, and so they're you know, methylene blue was
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 2: a lot of people emphasize that it was the first
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: it was the first drug, so it's like the first
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 2: you know, example of pharma basically, but before that, it
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 2: was actually patented as something that would turn your clothes
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 2: blue but wouldn't come out in the wash. That was
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: the patent ethly blue, you know, whereas coq ten you
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: eat food, it's there, your body makes it itself, and.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: What kind of food is it?
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: In heart is the best is the best, And so
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I was saying before you should be eating those to tail,
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: like if you're gonna eat meat, you should be eating heart.
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 2: I personally, most of my meat is actually a blend
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: of it's like sixty percent ground beef and the rest
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 2: of it is a blend of liver heart, kidney, And
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: there are some other Mine is just liver, heart and kidney.
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: There's some other companies that have seen recently come out
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 2: with ones that include spleen and adrenals and very small percentages.
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: But that's I do strongly believe in a food first,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: pharma last approach. And that doesn't mean like I'm against pharma,
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: but it means that even with supplements, like if you
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: can meet a need with food, you should meet the
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 2: need with food. You should use supplements in a strategic sense,
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 2: not as a replacement for a bad diet, and those
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: supplements should you know what you would do next is
• 1:04:25
  Speaker 2: say like, Okay, I'm really having trouble getting enough whatever nutrient.
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 2: Maybe I'll supplement to compensate for that. But I think
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 2: you should go on down the line with you know,
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 2: other things that are like supplements of things that occur
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 2: naturally in your body, that are of course safe to
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 2: be in your body because they're always going to be there.
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: Maybe you can supplement with that to help break a
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 2: vicious cycle of aging or to stimulate a virtuous cycle
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: of healing. That you know that I would Once you're
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: getting all your nutrients and you're trying to do that
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 2: from food, I would I think that you could start
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: playing a lound with that stuff. But even then, so
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: cookie ten is a great example, I would I would
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: try eating more heart before I would try supplementing with
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 2: four hundred milligrams a day of cookie ten, for example.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Can I ask you this, does it matter if it's
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: chicken heart beef heart? Is there a superior?
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think we have enough data to say that.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 2: So COQ ten is one of those things where the
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 2: nutritional databases are not that I mean you're not even
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: gonna find it in the USDA database, but there's published literature.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: But I have not seen all the different hearts compared.
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: So how do we know that COQ ten is in heart?
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: Well, wherever it's been measured in heart, it's there. So
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: like the representative examples of heart that were used were
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: like an order of magnitude higher and COQ ten than
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 2: anything else. But we haven't yah, I'm sorry, oh I would.
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 2: We just haven't seen all of the different hearts compared
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: to each other.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: Is it dependent upon how it's cooked, whether it's rare
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: well done that.
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: I think you lose some during cooking, but you're but
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: it's I forget how much, And I don't think it's
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: all of it, So it's I think it's you're always,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 2: I mean, you're always. The more gently you cook your food,
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: the better off you are. In every conceivable case, it
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: might always taste the best. I mean, you don't need
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: to make a steak well done to avoid.
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Well not steak, right, right? Yeahs, especially some wild game.
• 1:06:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean right. So taking that, taking that into account,
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: the nutrient value of the food is always going to
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 2: be highest when the when the food has been cooked
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 2: relatively gently. But but anyways, So so coke ten is
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: is interesting because it it's hard to argue against taking
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 2: it from the literature because there's dozens of clinical trials.
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: Quite a bit of it is in heart disease. It
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: looks pretty promising in various forms of heart disease.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 2: But if you look at that literature, what you see
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: is a dose response where at one to two hundred
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: milligrams per day of co Q ten, the average person's glucose, insulin,
• 1:07:13
  Speaker 2: and blood pressure looks better than not taking it. But
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 2: the average person at four hundred milligrams of co Q
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 2: ten is actually having worse blood pressure, glucose, and insulin
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 2: than they were without taking it. And the variability around
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 2: that is huge. So one person is probably going to
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: be worse at one hundred milligrams, whereas another person might
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 2: get their best at four hundred milligrams. But it's like,
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 2: if you looked at the literature and you would say,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: where is the sweet spot where the average person is
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: going to be doing really good, it would be one
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 2: hundred to two hundred milligrams a day. But I think
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 2: there are I've seen a lot of edge cases on
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 2: either side where some people get miracles and some people
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: get I wouldn't say catastrophe, but just they just get
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: worse off. So a lot of people complain about insomnia,
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 2: They complain about their heart racing or heart palpitations, various
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 2: things like that, over stimulation, feeling like the lights are
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 2: too bright or the sounds are too strong or whatever.
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 2: Just hyper sensory awareness. It's not common, but it's but
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 2: it's I mean, all the people do uncommon stuff, always
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: asking me about.
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 1: It, right at higher levels or no.
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 2: No, just like a one hundred milligrams, Like they're just
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 2: hyper sensitive people out there, Okay, And then is this rare?
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: Is this? Like I don't know how common it is?
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 2: So what I mean, what I can tell you is
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 2: that across the trials you see some people reporting GI
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: side effects, which is super common. You don't see a
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 2: lot of this mentioned, but you never know if they
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 2: were looking for it. Like a lot of times, the
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 2: side effect list is dependent on what side effects they
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 2: asked about.
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: Is this something you take with food or without food?
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: It would be better to take it with food?
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: And is the side effects? Is it dependent upon when
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: they take it, like whether it's morning or evening.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 2: I think for some people that have complained about insomnia,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: they have thought that it was worse when they took
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: it in the evening.
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: Makes sense, right, Yeah, yeah, so maybe increase function if
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 1: you took it early, or maybe increase energy levels.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 2: Well you know, Okay, So I think let me set
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 2: the stage for this with just kind of like, I
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 2: think this really helps explain like what should you actually
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: be thinking about to know that you're healthy? And I
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: think we struggle a lot with like I think the
• 1:09:45
  Speaker 2: I think the medicine just thinks that being healthy is
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: just not have any disease. And I think we, as
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 2: this kind of the you know, wellness community or whatever,
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 2: struggle to come up with a good definition for help.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 2: But I think like a really good definition of health
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 2: for me is you should be abundantly supplied with all
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: the energy that you need to fulfill the goals that
• 1:10:08
  Speaker 2: you're trying to fulfill. And you should be adaptable enough
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 2: to be able to handle things changing that we're out
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: of your control or your own purposeful changing. And I
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: think the north star for you to see when to
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: know that you are healthy is that your energy to
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: anxiety ratio is very high and your libido is very strong,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: and so I when you start losing use energy not
• 1:10:43
  Speaker 2: only to produce, maintain, repair, everything, but you also use
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: it to distribute everything. And so one of the things
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: that you do with like the last ten percent of
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: energy you make is help determine where all the energy goes.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: And so a lot of people think that like if
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 2: their mitochondrial function is declining, they should feel tired all
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 2: of time. But that's not necessarily the case. It might
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 2: be that you're just losing the energy that you need
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: to actually help the mito, you know, the mitochondrial chemical
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 2: energy to help control how you use energy, and so
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 2: you are wasting it as anxiety and you and that's
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: coming out of productivity. So it's like you look at
• 1:11:22
  Speaker 2: you look at how much energy did I have yesterday?
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 2: And what did I get done? The if if if
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 2: The answer is well, I felt wired all day, but
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: I wasted most of it thinking about why my wife
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: insulted me and then worrying about how I was going
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: to pay the bills, and so I didn't actually get
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 2: any work done. Like that's a good sign that you're
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: you are losing control over where your energy is going,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: so you're not you're just that's not good, that's not
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 2: that's not healthy. Healthy is you have a you have
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 2: abundant energy to put towards productive things. And so you
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 2: should see from that you feel energized when you need
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 2: to be alert, that your anxiety levels are very low,
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: that your libido is very high, and you know you
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 2: can adapt that on an age dependent manner. But and
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: that you are able to sleep very deeply. And if
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: all your energy is keeping you up at night and
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: then the next day you're sleep deprived, Like your biggest
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: problem is you're just not putting the energy to where
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 2: it's supposed to go. So I think when you're looking
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: at something like that, you could say, oh, maybe Cokaoten
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 2: is just increasing their energy. But to me, that they
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 2: lost a little bit of energy and they lost the
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 2: energy that they needed, like they lost the top ten
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 2: percent of their energy, and then they that made them
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 2: not be able to control where the next twenty percent went,
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: and so it's spilled over into their heart was racing,
• 1:12:47
  Speaker 2: or it's spilled over until they couldn't fall asleep at night.
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: But I've also you know, there I've also seen other
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 2: eight edge cases where people get miracles from coko ten
• 1:12:56
  Speaker 2: that you also are not going to find in the literature.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: So I had those kind of miracles.
• 1:13:01
  Speaker 2: I'll give you one example. So in the program that
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 2: I had, I had a client named Jacqueline, and she
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 2: lost her period at twenty eight. So she you call
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 2: that a menorrhea, but she described it as I hit
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: metopause way way too early. She didn't have her period
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 2: for ten years. So we did mitochondrial function testing on
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 2: her that showed that, like, you have a specific need
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: for a lot of co Q ten. And what was
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 2: crazy was she had gone to functional medicine practitioners, a homeopathy,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: all kinds of you know, just just went to do
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 2: whatever she could find and nothing ever changed that. What's
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 2: crazy is that like functional medicine practitioners often give bagfuls
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 2: of supplements to their to their patients. And you know,
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 2: so she had gotten like normal doses of COQ ten
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 2: to pass like one two hundred milligrams. But based on
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 2: the testing that we did, we said, like you should
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: you should probably experiment with seven eight hundred milograms, so
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: which you know, by the way, is above where people
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: the average person's glucose and insulin gets worse. But two
• 1:14:06
  Speaker 2: weeks into taking the Cooke ten, she got her period back.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 2: Wow after ten years. That's crazy after ten years.
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not crazy.
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 2: So I think the I think coke ten is a
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 2: it's methylene blue. I'm a little bit more hardcore, like
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: you really got to do the testing, where whereas coke ten,
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of like, you know, you should play around
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 2: with it, like you very well may benefit from one
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: to two hundred milligrams a day. But my food first,
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: pharma last approach says, are you eating heart? Did you
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 2: eat heart today?
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 1: Right? Well, that completely makes sense, and it also completely
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: makes sense that it would be more bioavailable in food,
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: you'd absorb more of it.
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: I think that's you know, that could be part of it.
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: But then it's just it's just also there's so manch
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 2: other stuff in the food, you know, So it's like
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: people get obsessed with whether they should be taking this
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 2: thing or that thing. But that thing, if you got
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: it from that food, give you thirty six other things, right, right,
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 2: And it's just and work together. Yeah and yeah, and
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 2: they worked together, and they can also become imbalanced. So
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of mitochondrial energy metabolism is the
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 2: bottlenecks that people can have is kind of like uh,
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 2: jammed up traffic, and a lot a lot of times
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 2: you can mega dose something and the main problem of
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 2: megan dosing that for anyone would be it would be
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 2: imbalance with something else. But if you've got a blockage
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 2: and that's something else, now you've just got like a
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: like a train wreck happening in your mitochondria because you're
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: activating one pathway that's that has to flow through the
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 2: next one where you hit your blockage, and you know,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 2: like that. So you can go online, for example, and
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: find communities where people are raving about high dose thiamen
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 2: and the RDA, the government recommended amount of diamon to
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: get is around like one point three milligrams. There's people
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 2: out there who are like, oh, everyone should be taking
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: two thousand milligrams per day. But I you know, I
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: saw one case where this happened before I knew the person,
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 2: but they had fatigue so bad that they couldn't get
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 2: off the couch, and so she was self rating her
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: energy at zero and a practitioner said, well, you should
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: really try this high dose thiamon. So she went on
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 2: eleven hundred milligrams a day, so not two thousand, but
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: big right, And a lot of people get miracles out
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: of this, and they are vocal, they make communities on Facebook,
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 2: and so people get the idea that everyone who tries
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 2: it is benefiting from it. But she her energy did
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: improve a little bit, but she developed a new, completely
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: new motor dysfunction problem, unsteady gait. It just kept getting
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: worse the whole time she was taking the thiamen. She
• 1:16:39
  Speaker 2: had an existing problem with dizzyness that got a lot worse,
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: and a major issue for her was that she had
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 2: to clear out the thiomon But the mitochondria testing that
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: we did on her basically showed that, like it explained
• 1:16:51
  Speaker 2: it because it's because she, you know, had a block
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: in the pathways that would be most sensitive to megadosing
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: that supplement, and so you know, winding that back and
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: renourishing those other pathways helped her. I do think that
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 2: a lot of people, if they're gonna go into the
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: wild wild west of megadosing random supplements, should do their
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: own testing of glucose, ketones, and lactate at home. A
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 2: lot of people test their glucose, not a lot of
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: people test their lactate, But I'm one hundred percent confident
• 1:17:22
  Speaker 2: that that woman had she had the practitioner said, try
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: the thiham in and see what it does to your
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: lack date and if it goes down, it's good, and
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 2: if it goes up, it's bad. I think she would
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: have stopped it after the first few days, and the
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 2: nuance at motor dysfunction never would have happened. And so
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: maybe she wouldn't have done mitochondria testing with me until
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 2: months after that, but it wouldn't have been a big
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: deal because she had this real time indicator of mitochondrial
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: dysfunction that she tested herself at home that showed her, oh,
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: I'm trying this, you know, out of left field thing.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: Let's see, am I getting a stress signal out of it?
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 2: Or am I getting the signal that my mito are
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: calming down and or more happy with their function? Which
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: is really what lactate is telling you and you know
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: lack Most people who do lactate testing doing an exercise,
• 1:18:09
  Speaker 2: and what you see in exercise is when your body's
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: under an incredible amount of stress, you see lactate levels
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: go up in the blood. You know, halfway through a
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: pro basketball game, lactate is through the roof. Right, Well,
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: you know if I took if I take thiamin and
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: the next day it looks like I'm halfway through the
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 2: basketball game when I wake up, that's a side that
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 2: something is out of whack in my body. Right, So
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: but you know to go back to like if they
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 2: if the perspective was you might need more thiamine, So
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 2: you should tries adding some nutritional yeast to the dishes
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 2: that you want to impart a cheesy flavor too, which
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: is what nutritional yeast tastes like. Because nutritional yeast is
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 2: really high in thiamin, then that probably wouldn't have happened
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: because the dose would have been a lot lower. She
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: would have gradually gone into it much more gradually. But
• 1:18:57
  Speaker 2: also whatever those blockages were would have the other nutrients
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 2: assisting them, so the thiomon wouldn't be so out of balance.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 2: So it's not just that you absorb it better or whatever,
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: it's also just the food. Going food first really helps
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: correct for errors that are a problem with your expertise.
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: Warren Buffett once said that a diversified portfolio is great
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: protection against ignorance. He said, it doesn't really make sense
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: if you know what you're doing. But if you don't
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 2: know what you're doing, you really should diversify. And so
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: that that's what food is, a diversified portfolio. And if
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 2: you don't have the expertise to run around taking different
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: things that you don't understand, if you don't understand the
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 2: biochemical pathway of the thing, you're megados saying you are
• 1:19:45
  Speaker 2: not a candidate. That's like, you know, buying an ETF
• 1:19:48
  Speaker 2: and you don't even know what an ETF is. You know,
• 1:19:51
  Speaker 2: like it's like give that to your financial advice. And
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 2: so I, yeah, I think that food first pharma as is.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 2: The food first part of that is really just a
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 2: protection against But I like, I do have the expertise,
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 2: and I still do food first because I know that
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: my expertise in my own body is incomplete. And so
• 1:20:14
  Speaker 2: you know, I might know a thousand times more than
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 2: the average person about what Thiamon does in the body,
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 2: but Thimon's doing things in my body and I don't
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: know what they are. So I'm not gonna I'm not
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: gonna assume I know everything just because I have, like,
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 2: you know, top notch expertise in the field.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 1: You know, when you're talking about methylene blue and co
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: q ten and the benefits on mitochondria. Is what the
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: what's the mechanism? And are they similar? Is it? Are
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 1: they interchangeable?
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: They are not similar and they're not interchangeable. So coq
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: ten is and you know, asking me if you want
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: me to go into even more detail, but if you
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: extract energy from food and then you need to carry
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: that energy through a pathway, coq ten is about two
• 1:21:03
  Speaker 2: thirds through that pathway. And it's just it's like if
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: you were going down a road and you had to
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 2: take a shuttle across the river to get to your
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: next destination and then you go get on the next
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 2: train or something like that. So cooq ten is just
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 2: part of the transport pathway as the electrons come through
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: that are taken out of food to ultimately convert to
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: ATP methling blue is you know, if coq ten is
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 2: like the main ferry, methelling blue is is this guy
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: running around waving his hands in the air. Oh you
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: know what methylene blue is Like it's like those those
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 2: fake taxis at the airport where like you're trying to
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: go to the taxi line and they come right up
• 1:21:41
  Speaker 2: to you. They're like, excuse me, sorry, do you need
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 2: a taxi? But it's like the shady taxi. So methyline
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: blue is like the is like an army of the
• 1:21:48
  Speaker 2: shady taxis. They're like, don't take the ferry, come over here, right,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 2: And so if the ferry is blocked, methlene blue would
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: be great because you know, if there's no taxis left,
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: you want the you'll take the shady legs. You gotta
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: get somewhere. So methline blue is it's operating on the
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: outer edges of the main pathway and it's giving you alternatives.
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 2: But the mitochondrial pathway that you were born with is
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: the one that is best. It's the most efficient one. So,
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 2: like I was saying before, methylene blue is great if
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 2: you have a blockage there and you need a detour.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: It makes you worse off if you don't COQ ten is.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 2: It's it's the reason you can overdose on it is
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: because it's like, Okay, there's a river and you got
• 1:22:32
  Speaker 2: to get a ferry going across it. Well, what happens
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: if there's ten ferries, or there's fifty ferries, or there's
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty ferries, at some point they're going
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 2: to be running into each other and you're just going
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 2: to clog up that. You know, at some point, putting
• 1:22:43
  Speaker 2: more vehicles into any pathway just makes things worse with
• 1:22:47
  Speaker 2: the traffic that results. And if you have too much traffic,
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: you get accidents and you know, train wrecks and car crashes,
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 2: and your mitochondria aren't good for you.
• 1:22:55
  Speaker 1: Would co Q ten have a similar benefit in terms
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: of like red might therapy increasing mitochondrial function, Like.
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 2: I think they could be synt I think they could
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 2: be synergistic. Coke ten By the way, it also helps
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: you make more mitochondria, and that's called mitochondria biogenesis. Exercise
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 2: also helps you make more mitochondria, and I do think
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 2: that you like so you should never take COQ ten
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 2: as an excuse about exercise, because exercise is very specifically
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 2: putting the mitochondria where they belong to meet the adaptation
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: that you are stressing. So that's you know, that's bio
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: mitochondria biogenesis number one. But COQ ten will help with that.
• 1:23:38
  Speaker 2: You don't always want mitochondri biogenesis. I do think like
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: testing is another case where where that that might be
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: a case where like you could use a high dose
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: coq ten to try to stimulate more mitochondria if testing
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: shows that you're you don't have enough, and that's your
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 2: like limiting bottleneck. But the like the average person who's
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: coq ten levels are just a little lower where they
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 2: should be. It really is just acting as that kind
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: of like you open up the biochemistry textbook, you see
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 2: the place of coq ten in the mitochondrial energy production pathways,
• 1:24:10
  Speaker 2: and it's just doing the basic textbook thing of helping
• 1:24:13
  Speaker 2: you move those electrons along on the path to convert food. ATP.
• 1:24:19
  Speaker 1: One of the things you brought up earlier was seed
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 1: oils impeding the absorption of certain nutrients. Seed oils are
• 1:24:29
  Speaker 1: a weird thing because you know, so many people pushed
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 1: against them and said, hey, these are essentially industrial lubricants
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 1: that have been converted to food oil for profit and
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 1: it's not really the best stuff that we should be consuming.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: And then you have a bunch of online contrarians that say, oh,
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with seed oils. This is all nonsense.
• 1:24:50
  Speaker 1: There's no data, there's no studies, and I don't understand
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 1: that that thought process, and when you know what they're
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 1: made with with hex saying and all the whole fucking
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 1: disgusting process of making them versus pressing olive oil. Like
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 1: to me, it just seems so obvious that one of
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 1: them you should probably avoid. And then when it's connected
• 1:25:15
  Speaker 1: to all sorts of inflammation and all sorts of various
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 1: issues and what you were talking about earlier, impeding the
• 1:25:22
  Speaker 1: absorption of certain nutrients, what do you think is going on?
• 1:25:28
  Speaker 1: First of all, why are people defending seed oils and
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: what is the real problem with seed oils in a
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 1: human diet.
• 1:25:38
  Speaker 2: Seed oils make your tissues more vulnerable to damage, and
• 1:25:45
  Speaker 2: they don't damage your tissues, And so one of the
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 2: problems that has caused a lot of controversy. I think
• 1:25:51
  Speaker 2: the reason there's so much back and forth over this
• 1:25:55
  Speaker 2: is that it takes the right type of study to
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: see seed oil making your tissues more vulnerable to damage,
• 1:26:04
  Speaker 2: because you need the enough time for the damage to
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 2: play out, and you need people who are more vulnerable
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 2: to the damage. And we've been talking a lot today
• 1:26:17
  Speaker 2: about how aging is increasing that tissue damage, Like everything is,
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: your repair capacity goes down as you grow older because
• 1:26:27
  Speaker 2: your mitochondrial energy production is going down. And one of
• 1:26:31
  Speaker 2: the things you want to look at is what do
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 2: seed oils do to you by the time you're seventy five,
• 1:26:38
  Speaker 2: And you don't just want to look at what do
• 1:26:39
  Speaker 2: seed oils do to you when you're twenty five, because
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 2: you might not be seeing the capacity for the increased
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: vulnerability of tissue damage. Another thing is the trials have
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: to be long enough, both because it takes time to
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: see the process of tissue damage play out, and also
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: because we know from long trials of seed oils that
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 2: short trials are useless. And there are a lot of
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 2: the people who are talking the lot loudest in defense
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: of seed oils are looking at trials that last seven
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 2: weeks long or twelve weeks long, and they're ignoring trials
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: that were done in the fifties, sixties, and seventies that
• 1:27:21
  Speaker 2: were five to eight years long. And I'm just like
• 1:27:26
  Speaker 2: you know, by all means, analyze the shorter trials, but
• 1:27:30
  Speaker 2: do it in the light of what we know from
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: the longer trials. And the most important of the longer
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: trials was the La Veterans Administration Hospital Study, and this
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 2: was the primary paper on it was published in nineteen
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 2: sixty nine. So it takes us back in history, but
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 2: there was a period between World War two and nineteen
• 1:27:48
  Speaker 2: seventies where there was a lot of motivation in the
• 1:27:52
  Speaker 2: research community to do these grand randomized control trials of nutrition.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 2: We don't have that anymore, and I think it's because
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: scientists love to in their collective imagination to say that
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: what they're doing is they're just carrying forth a linear
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: path of addressing knowledge gaps left from the previous literature
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: and just making a linear progress in science. But they're
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 2: really not, because the incentive structure is to publish a
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: large number of papers in high impact journals on a
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: yearly basis as your university reviews get done, and so
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 2: if you're going to sit and then there's other incentives too,
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: because you have to get grants with preliminary data, so
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: you have shorter studies that you then say, well, I'm
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: going to do a longer study now, and it keeps
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: a grant cycle going, and then the people who write
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: the grants want to see things getting published out of
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: those papers. So for you to be like, I'm going
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: to do a twelve year randomized controlled trial of seed oils,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: is it's going to be hard to get the people
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: you know, get all this box checked, like, you might
• 1:29:02
  Speaker 2: not be public publishing a paper for a while. So
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: if the La Veterans Administration Hospital study showed was that
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 2: they randomized people to seed oils or traditional fats, and
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 2: in the first two years you had a little bit
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 2: of a heart disease benefit, but then it wore off
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 2: over time, and so the heart disease mortality basically by
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 2: the end of the trial was just kind of flat,
• 1:29:27
  Speaker 2: but the cancer was the same for the first two years,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 2: but then at the two to five year market started
• 1:29:33
  Speaker 2: diverging and you see, oh, it looks like there's something there.
• 1:29:35
  Speaker 2: The five to seven year mark, it's you know, traditional
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: fats down here, and this gap starts widening where seed
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 2: oils are up here. And then by the end of
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: the study total mortality was kind of flat the whole time,
• 1:29:48
  Speaker 2: but it just started to diverge at the end of
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: the study to favor seed oils causing more death. And
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: this study was the longest and it was also the
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: one where the only trial ever done with seed oils
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: where the people the mean age was sixty five, so
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: the people were older than in every other trial. And
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: one of the important things about being old is that
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: that's what makes you able to get cancer. There are
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: some childhood cancers, but in general people start getting cancer
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 2: when they live long enough to not die of heart
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 2: disease first. So doing the trial and older people for
• 1:30:23
  Speaker 2: longer is what allowed you to see that the seed
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 2: oils seemed to be able to cause cancer. And what
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: the author's conclusion was was that because the total mortality
• 1:30:34
  Speaker 2: was just starting to diverge at the eight year mark,
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: and because they had a plausible reason for it, that
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 2: the cancer was exploding. They said, we have ultimately left
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 2: the question of whether these oils are toxic unresolved. And
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 2: the one thing that we need is, instead of the
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 2: previous goal of the trials being five years long, that
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: the trials be done well in excess of eight years. Okay,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 2: so scientists think that they're just like looking at the
• 1:31:00
  Speaker 2: older nurture and they saying, oh, what was the gap
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: in the knowledge that we need to solve next? Well,
• 1:31:04
  Speaker 2: I'm telling you they concluded in nineteen sixty nine that
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 2: the gap of the knowledge was we need a trial
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: that's a lot longer than eight years, and what did
• 1:31:12
  Speaker 2: we get? Seven to twelve week trials. It's kind of
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: like that that Who was it Peter Teel or someone
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: had a tweet that was like, we they promised us
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: flying cars and all we got was one hundred and
• 1:31:23
  Speaker 2: eighty characters or something like that, whatever that quote is.
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 2: They promised us, well in excessive eight year trials was
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: the next thing we needed to study, and like, you know,
• 1:31:32
  Speaker 2: fifty sixty years ago by and all we've got is
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 2: these seven week trials and twelve week trials. Now we
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: also know why seed oils would take a while to
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: have such negative effects, because it actually takes you four
• 1:31:46
  Speaker 2: years just for your tissues to start looking like the
• 1:31:50
  Speaker 2: seed oil you're eating.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: Like if you.
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 2: Switch from butter and olive oil today and you go
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: on corn oil, it's gonna take four years for your
• 1:32:00
  Speaker 2: tissues to fully look like the corn oil. And then
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 2: once that happens, you've got secondary effects, so you start
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: getting your vitamin E levels depleted much faster, But it
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 2: takes a while for the vitamin E levels to go
• 1:32:12
  Speaker 2: down in order for other effects. Other results of that,
• 1:32:17
  Speaker 2: like the the increased vulnerability to the tissues being destroyed.
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 2: All that stuff is like you you're you're not even
• 1:32:26
  Speaker 2: starting to see it until five six years go by,
• 1:32:29
  Speaker 2: and so that I think that's the big reason that
• 1:32:32
  Speaker 2: there's so much controversy is that, for whatever reason, there's
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 2: some people who just don't want to look at the
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 2: at the older trials that were very long, and they're
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 2: spending all their time looking at these very short term trials,
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 2: And you know, is there a motivation behind that or
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: is it just laziness. I'm not sure.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 1: I think tension. I think part of it is tension. Yeah,
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 1: it's a big part of it. Part of it is
• 1:32:54
  Speaker 1: justifying the contrarian position with these short term trials because
• 1:33:00
  Speaker 1: then you could dunk on people and get attention.
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that makes a lot of sense. Like
• 1:33:05
  Speaker 2: every everyone has to get attention somehow if they want
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: to make it in this world.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 1: Well, that's the side effect of this influencer culture, you know.
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 1: And it's one of the things I really appreciate about
• 1:33:15
  Speaker 1: your work. You are very evidence based and you you know,
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 1: I've been paying attention to your stuff for a long time.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 1: It's you're you're never hyperbolic, it's always very rational, it's
• 1:33:26
  Speaker 1: very balanced, and I think that is really important because
• 1:33:30
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of people that they make these videos
• 1:33:37
  Speaker 1: or they have social media posts, and it's insulting, inflammatory,
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 1: and they're doing it for attention. And they're doing that,
• 1:33:45
  Speaker 1: you know, that kind of behavior for attention along with science.
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 1: They're they're adding the science into it, but it seems
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 1: like the science is just a vehicle for them to
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 1: get attention.
• 1:33:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean that's that's unfortunate because there there
• 1:33:59
  Speaker 2: is health hanging and.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 1: You know, no, it is unfortunate, but it's also common.
• 1:34:03
  Speaker 1: You know, it's really common. You know, you see it
• 1:34:05
  Speaker 1: in all sorts of different disciplines. You know, you see
• 1:34:09
  Speaker 1: it in archaeology, you see it in everything. There's people
• 1:34:12
  Speaker 1: that want to dunk on their opposition and that's part
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 1: of how they're getting attention is by insulting people. And
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 1: you see it. But when you see it in nutrition,
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 1: it's just it's really weird, you know, because it's not necessary.
• 1:34:26
  Speaker 1: And the people that are getting attention, whether it's Andrew
• 1:34:29
  Speaker 1: Huberman or yourself, a lot of people that are just
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: doing evidence based stuff and being really rational about it,
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: and that's how they're getting attention, and other people are
• 1:34:39
  Speaker 1: seeing them and going, I need to dunk on that
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: guy in order to elevate my social profile. And the
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 1: seedy wil thing is a weird thing to defend. It's
• 1:34:48
  Speaker 1: just just on the way that it's manufactured. If you
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: just watch the process and go, do you want to
• 1:34:55
  Speaker 1: eat that? Do you want that? Or do you want butter?
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: Butter seems way better, It seems way more normal. It
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: seems like your body would accept butter a lot easier
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 1: than it would accept this fucking insane process where you're
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 1: dumping a bunch of chemicals into this this goop, this
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: nasty ship that you're pushing out a rape seed oil
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: and you're calling it canola oil. You know, ho many
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 1: people think canola oil is corn oil because corn is canola.
• 1:35:23
  Speaker 1: You know you think of corn, Oh, corn oil. It
• 1:35:24
  Speaker 1: must be good for it. It's vegetable oil.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: Well it is. It is funny that they named it
• 1:35:27
  Speaker 2: after a con.
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 1: It's fucking weird there.
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a there's an article not Not Buy maybe
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: by someone else called the Great Conola, and it's about
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 2: how canola oil is a con But.
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 1: It's yeah, but anyway, that's a good way to put it,
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 1: because canola oil is a con because many people I've
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: seen canola oil where they have a fucking image of
• 1:35:51
  Speaker 1: a corn of an ear of corn. Have you ever
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: seen that on the label?
• 1:35:56
  Speaker 2: I don't think labels, but this is a while since
• 1:36:01
  Speaker 2: I bought a bottle.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: There's something you can find that shows that. Because I
• 1:36:05
  Speaker 1: hope I'm not having a false memory, but I'm pretty
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 1: sure there used to be a canola oil that had
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: like an ear of corn on it. It's rape seed,
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: and it's a it's an industrial lubricant, and that's what
• 1:36:16
  Speaker 1: they used to use it for, and it's a byproduct.
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 1: It's a weird, funky thing that they have to pour
• 1:36:22
  Speaker 1: a bunch of shit into just to take the smell
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: out of it, Just to take the rancid smell out
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: of this weird oil that you're cooking with.
• 1:36:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can. You can buy cold pressed seed oils.
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 2: They you know, it's not what most people are eating
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 2: food with. But I still think that the fundamental problem
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: with it's not just the processing. It's also if you
• 1:36:47
  Speaker 2: look at ancestral human diets, no one ate fatty acid
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: compositions that look like that, because the reason that they
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: usually use hextaing to extract it is because it's actually
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: difficult to extract using pure early mechanical methods. So olives
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 2: can be pressed into oil.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 1: Right, and that is a type of seed oil. Right
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 1: if you think olive is a fruit oil or fruit,
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 1: but avocado is that a fruit as well? Avocado oil?
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, avocado oil is pressed out of the avocado, right,
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 2: flush is super high.
• 1:37:19
  Speaker 1: In fact, it's so it's just the pit inside of
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 1: it is the seed.
• 1:37:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't I don't think they make Yeah, I
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: don't think they make oil.
• 1:37:26
  Speaker 1: Out of that. So it's a fruit oil. So whether
• 1:37:30
  Speaker 1: it's olive oil, well, the high heat ones are avocado oil.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 1: That's when that people like to cook with, right, Yeah, well, okay,
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 1: so are any issues with that?
• 1:37:42
  Speaker 2: So cook cooking with an oil. One issue is the
• 1:37:46
  Speaker 2: smoke point, because the oil is burning at its smoke point,
• 1:37:51
  Speaker 2: and that probably is more of an indication of flavor
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: than it is of health. But it is generally going
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: to correlate, like if the oil is burning, you're more
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 2: likely to have damaged to the oils, and consuming damaged
• 1:38:06
  Speaker 2: oils is bad for you. But there's but there. So
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 2: there's the smoke point, there's the fatty acid composition, and
• 1:38:15
  Speaker 2: there's the solvents and other chemicals left over from the processing.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 2: And I think all of those are an issue, but
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 2: the fatty acid composition is like we seed oils has
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 2: become the common thing to use as a nickname for it,
• 1:38:29
  Speaker 2: but it's but what you're really thinking about is that
• 1:38:34
  Speaker 2: they're high in poly unsaturated fatty acids or puufas, and
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 2: those poly unsaturated fatty acids are just like it. It
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 2: happens to be most things. Most oils that are currently
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 2: on the market for food consumption that are very high
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 2: in polyunsaturated fatty acids are what we call seed oils.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 2: So that's you know, that's why we call it that way.
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: But the.
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 2: Actual fatty acid composition, like if you go back to
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 2: any oil that was easy for humans to produce before, say,
• 1:39:10
  Speaker 2: one hundred years ago, then you don't see those like there.
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 2: You don't see people a strong tradition of large consumption
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 2: of rape seed oil going back because or cottonseed oil
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 2: or corn oil, because it's i mean, try squeezing a
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: corn kernel. It's it's not that squeezable. And so when
• 1:39:32
  Speaker 2: you have these very small hard things, that's why you
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: wind up get you wind up getting solvent extraction. But
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: you had to do the solvent extraction because it was
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: not easy otherwise to get oil out of those things.
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 2: The solvents is a whole other thing. I was in
• 1:39:52
  Speaker 2: a lab once where someone had us analyze residual hexane
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: in foods and they just bought a bunch of grocery
• 1:40:03
  Speaker 2: store foods, and I was I was kind of managing
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: the data analysis while someone I worked with was doing
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 2: the hexaane measurements. But let me just say that if
• 1:40:14
  Speaker 2: it's extracted with hexane, it's got hexane left over. And
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: we saw something that was not hexane. We didn't know
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 2: what it was, but it was some chemical solvent that
• 1:40:23
  Speaker 2: was massive in the uh pump spray oils. And after
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 2: I saw that, I was like, I'm never using a
• 1:40:30
  Speaker 2: pump spray oil because they because they like you could
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 2: put all of oil in like a mechanical spray bottle.
• 1:40:36
  Speaker 2: That's fine, but like PAM and those other ones, they
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 2: they're using chemicals to make the spraying work, and it's
• 1:40:45
  Speaker 2: there's something that's some chemical solvent that's just like way
• 1:40:49
  Speaker 2: like massive proportions in it. So after I saw that,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 2: I just stopped stopped using that.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 1: I won't go near Yeah, I don't go near those anyway.
• 1:40:56
  Speaker 1: But what about grape seed. I know, grape seed is
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 1: one that people like to cook with because it has
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 1: a high smoke point.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I I would put grape seed oil in the
• 1:41:07
  Speaker 2: category of a seed oil that I wouldn't consume in
• 1:41:10
  Speaker 2: high quantities.
• 1:41:11
  Speaker 1: And is hexaying an issue with that as well?
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 2: Not? I mean not if it's cold pressed. I mean
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: you can get like organic cold press grape seed oil
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: that is not solve and extracted. It's not RBD. It's uh,
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 2: it's you know, not heated. But with the pie yeah,
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 2: I mean it's it's very You're you're paying a lot
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: to get a high quality product, but it's still like,
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: you know, there might be studies out there about some
• 1:41:37
  Speaker 2: therapeutic benefits of some of the components of the grape
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: seed oil, but I don't I wouldn't want to make
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 2: those fats be the major oil in my diet because
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 2: I think you're just overload. Like it's high in antioxidants
• 1:41:49
  Speaker 2: and so you're gonna get benefit, there's gonna be beneficial
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 2: things in it, But I don't think that those fats
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: are what you want to be your main fatty acid consumption.
• 1:42:00
  Speaker 1: What about if you were searing a steak in grape
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 1: seed oil. Would that be an issue?
• 1:42:05
  Speaker 2: I mean, the less of the oil that's there, the
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 2: less of an issue it is. You know, if you're
• 1:42:10
  Speaker 2: just coating the pan with it and it's convenient because
• 1:42:13
  Speaker 2: it doesn't have ice smoke point, I won't worry too
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 2: much about it.
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 1: But I wouldn't I wouldn't be one of healthy fats.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to be consuming like a tablespoon or
• 1:42:20
  Speaker 2: upwards of grape seed oil a day.
• 1:42:23
  Speaker 1: So I think we would agree that the issue with
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: saturated fatty asked saturated fats, and just in the zeitgeist,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 1: saturated fats we have demonized since whatever that study was
• 1:42:39
  Speaker 1: where the sugar company bribed those scientists, was it the fifties,
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: the sixties, wherever it was where they spent.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: Started it started back then. The kind of the crowning
• 1:42:50
  Speaker 2: turning point was nineteen eighty four when Time magazine had
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 2: a picture of a frowning face made out of eggs
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 2: and baken and the cover said, hold the eggs in butter.
• 1:43:04
  Speaker 2: Cholesterol has been proved deadly in our diets will never
• 1:43:06
  Speaker 2: be the same, And.
• 1:43:07
  Speaker 1: We got to pull that photo up. That's so crazy.
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: They really did.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: That, Yeah, they actually they they reversed it a few
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 2: years ago where they took the same image but they
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 2: made it a smiley face and they were like, now
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: we know eggs are good for you.
• 1:43:22
  Speaker 1: But meanwhile, how many lives did you ruin with your
• 1:43:24
  Speaker 1: shitty advice. It's so stunning.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you can do like you can see the two
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: right there.
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you can see both crazy. Yeah, good? Is the
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: upper left hand corn?
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah that the upper left hand corner is the new
• 1:43:39
  Speaker 2: one and is the nineteen eighty.
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 1: Four one scientists labeled fat the enemy. They were wrong. Yeah,
• 1:43:45
  Speaker 1: you didn't print the whole thing. They got fucking bribed
• 1:43:49
  Speaker 1: and not a lot of money. That's what's really crazy.
• 1:43:51
  Speaker 1: Ruined society ruined diets for what fifty thousand dollars, So
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 1: for fifty thousand dollars, people started eating margine and eating
• 1:44:01
  Speaker 1: seed oil and not eating butter and not consuming cholesterol,
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 1: which is, you know, the building blocks for hormones. It's
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: such an important aspect of the human diet. And when
• 1:44:13
  Speaker 1: you tell people that, like I tell people I eat
• 1:44:15
  Speaker 1: mostly meat, they go, what about your cholesterol? I just say,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 1: I don't know what to tell you, go read, I
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 1: just can't you know, I can't sit there and tell
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: you that higher LDL cholesterol is actually associated with longer lifespans.
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: It's like, there's a lot to this whole cholesterol thing,
• 1:44:34
  Speaker 1: and I think it's kind of been fucked around with
• 1:44:36
  Speaker 1: by the mainstream media reporting on these sort of ancient narratives,
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: these narratives that not ancient, but you know, these narratives
• 1:44:44
  Speaker 1: that were set up in the fifties and sixties whenever
• 1:44:46
  Speaker 1: it was in the eighties, the Time magazine thing that
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: people just repeat. They don't look into it, they just
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 1: repeat it over and over again, and they're really worried,
• 1:44:54
  Speaker 1: like I'm trying to eat less less red meat, Like
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: why why try and eat less meat? Well, it's you know, cholesterol,
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: Like oh boy.
• 1:45:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I well I do think that you don't You
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 2: don't want to see your blood cholesterol going crazy high
• 1:45:09
  Speaker 2: because that can be a sign that you're not using
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: it well, right, like, uh, if you're cholesterol is turning
• 1:45:16
  Speaker 2: over and it's being used to make bile acids support
• 1:45:18
  Speaker 2: your digestion, it's being used to make adrenal hormones and
• 1:45:22
  Speaker 2: sex hormones. It's being used to make testosterone, it's being
• 1:45:27
  Speaker 2: used to make brain sign apses to support your memory,
• 1:45:29
  Speaker 2: like all those things that cholesterol does are incredibly important.
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: But I think a lot of people they're cholesterol going
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 2: up can be a sign that they're not using it properly,
• 1:45:41
  Speaker 2: and so I think that's why you do see, uh,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: you know, they're like, it is true that if you
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: take people at a certain age, you can see inverse
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 2: correlations between cholesterol levels and mortality. But if you take
• 1:45:56
  Speaker 2: people are younger and you look at who's gonna get
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 2: heart attacks later, you do see that higher cholesterol when
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: you're younger perspectively predicts a higher risk of heart disease later.
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that's because cholesterol causes heart disease,
• 1:46:12
  Speaker 2: but I think it's because it's a reflection of your
• 1:46:17
  Speaker 2: overall metabolism being more slow in terms of actually using
• 1:46:22
  Speaker 2: up the cholesterol and that also. But it's interesting though
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 2: that if you look at the mechanisms of how does
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 2: like how does cholesterol cause atherosclerosis? The cholesterol is inside
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 2: a lipoprotein, which is like a spherical container for the cholesterol.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: It's got a bunch of fat sliable vitamins and other
• 1:46:45
  Speaker 2: things in it, but the outside is fatty acids, specifically
• 1:46:51
  Speaker 2: in the form called phospholipids. But what happens that drives
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 2: the atherosclerotic plaque is that the fats you get from
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: seed oils that are that are on the outside of
• 1:47:01
  Speaker 2: it get damaged. And when they get damaged, the immune
• 1:47:04
  Speaker 2: system recognizes it as a toxin that could hurt the
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 2: blood vessel, and so the immune system gobbles it up
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: and sequesters it. And that that sequestering is like a quarantine,
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 2: and that's that's what the plaque develops from. And so
• 1:47:18
  Speaker 2: that's why, like, even though you see prospectively that if
• 1:47:23
  Speaker 2: your cholesterol is higher, that that predicts that you're more
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 2: likely to get heart disease, leader in the randomized controlled trials,
• 1:47:30
  Speaker 2: you saw something quite different when they used seed oils
• 1:47:34
  Speaker 2: to lower the cholesterol. So the Minnesota Coronary Survey was another.
• 1:47:40
  Speaker 2: It was I mentioned the La Veterans Administration Hospital study
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: that was These were the two double blind, randomized controlled
• 1:47:47
  Speaker 2: trials that were done of seed oils. The Minnesota Coronary
• 1:47:50
  Speaker 2: Survey was very big. It was the only one that
• 1:47:52
  Speaker 2: included women, and it wasn't as long, but but it
• 1:47:58
  Speaker 2: was way larger, and back when they published the results,
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: it looked like there was an eight percent increase in
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: the risk of heart disease with the seed oils, but
• 1:48:11
  Speaker 2: they mentioned that they measured actual athorisclerosis and they didn't
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 2: report it. So decades later, like I think it was
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: about ten years ago, researchers noticed this and they said, well,
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 2: the guys that did the study are dead, but I
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 2: wonder if the altherrois lerosis results are around. So they
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 2: did some digging and it turned out that in the
• 1:48:34
  Speaker 2: basement of the house that the lead investigator lived in
• 1:48:38
  Speaker 2: who had died a long time ago, there were boxes
• 1:48:41
  Speaker 2: of data that had not been published from that study,
• 1:48:44
  Speaker 2: and they included all the atherisk lerosis measurements. What they
• 1:48:48
  Speaker 2: found was that the seed oil group had double the athiskclerosis.
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 2: Not only that, but every thirty five milligram per deestin
• 1:48:56
  Speaker 2: leader drop in cholesterol was associated with something like thirty
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 2: percent more heart disease. And so the original results didn't
• 1:49:05
  Speaker 2: look very They didn't look good for cetyles. They looked bad,
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 2: but they didn't look that bad and they weren't statistically significant,
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: but it was because there was a lot of you know,
• 1:49:16
  Speaker 2: people were coming in and out of of the trial.
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: It kind of weakened the results. But this, you know,
• 1:49:21
  Speaker 2: the atherisklerosis results, and the correlations that were buried in
• 1:49:24
  Speaker 2: those boxes show that when you look at the data
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: from that angle, like the seed oils look a lot worse.
• 1:49:30
  Speaker 2: And I think what you're seeing there, this is one
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: of the reasons why there's so much material to work
• 1:49:36
  Speaker 2: with to make controversy out of this, is that you
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 2: see that people with higher cholesterol when they're younger are
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: more likely to go on to have a heart attack.
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: But when you use seed oils, which lower the cholesterol
• 1:49:49
  Speaker 2: in the blood but increase the amount of these easily
• 1:49:53
  Speaker 2: damaged fatty acids that carry the cholesterol, and they get
• 1:49:57
  Speaker 2: damaged and they drive the atherisklerotic plaque. That's why you
• 1:50:00
  Speaker 2: see this divergence. Like that correlation exists there, but not
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 2: everything that you do with your diet to change it
• 1:50:08
  Speaker 2: to try to make the correlation work in your favor.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Does you good? Right?
• 1:50:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah right, I've read that. I'd read something about that,
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: and also something about there's a profound difference between someone
• 1:50:21
  Speaker 1: who consumes their cholesterol, like say, if you're on just
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: a seed oil free just vegetables and meat with healthy
• 1:50:34
  Speaker 1: fats like those kind of carbohydrates are those kinds of
• 1:50:38
  Speaker 1: proteins and fats without complex carbohydrates, without consumption of a
• 1:50:43
  Speaker 1: lot of grains. Without that, there's a difference in the
• 1:50:46
  Speaker 1: results that they were having in terms of the impact
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: of cholesterol.
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 2: In general, you are going to have higher cholesterol if
• 1:50:56
  Speaker 2: you're eating less fiber, right.
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: And is it in it all dependent upon the activity
• 1:51:04
  Speaker 1: level of the person, like, oh, if you're talking about
• 1:51:07
  Speaker 1: using the cholesteroll yeah, I think.
• 1:51:09
  Speaker 2: I mean this is a great tie back to the
• 1:51:13
  Speaker 2: things we were talking about before, because the clearance of
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 2: cholesterol from your blood is driven by the mitochondrial energy
• 1:51:21
  Speaker 2: production that gives your brain the signal that you are
• 1:51:25
  Speaker 2: in a state of abundance and should put that cholesterol
• 1:51:28
  Speaker 2: toward good things. And you have a bunch of hormones
• 1:51:32
  Speaker 2: that communicate that. Leptin, insulin, thyroid, hormone are all involved.
• 1:51:36
  Speaker 2: But what is ultimately driving this is your brain, especially
• 1:51:41
  Speaker 2: in the hypothalamus, is taking information in that says are
• 1:51:45
  Speaker 2: you getting enough food for me to consider this a
• 1:51:49
  Speaker 2: state of abundance where I ramp up your digestion, I
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 2: ramp up your libido, I ramp up all these things.
• 1:51:58
  Speaker 2: And we in nutrition science to think that this is
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 2: about calories or it's about carbs, and it is about
• 1:52:06
  Speaker 2: those things. But if you are half as good at
• 1:52:12
  Speaker 2: mitochondrial conversion of food to ATP as the next guy over,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 2: you know, is your hypothalamus gonna give you full credit
• 1:52:24
  Speaker 2: for the food you ate in terms of calculating your
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 2: state of abundance? It's not. It's gonna doc you by half.
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 2: And this is because the hypothalmist takes all these signals
• 1:52:32
  Speaker 2: and then it looks at inside the hypothomic cells, it
• 1:52:36
  Speaker 2: looks at, okay, how well do I convert that those
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 2: food molecules into ATP using my mitochondria, And if it's
• 1:52:43
  Speaker 2: fifty percent dropped, it's gonna dock you in your state
• 1:52:46
  Speaker 2: of abundance. And it's gonna say, you know, actually you
• 1:52:48
  Speaker 2: ate all the food, but you didn't get all the energy.
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 2: And so we're just gonna let things stagnate and the
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 2: cholesterol is going to go up in the blood, your
• 1:52:56
  Speaker 2: sex hormone is gonna go down, and you know you
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 2: can get you can look at that and say, well,
• 1:53:03
  Speaker 2: there's an age you're going through andropause. There's an age
• 1:53:06
  Speaker 2: dependent decline in testosterone and adrenal hormones and stuff like that,
• 1:53:10
  Speaker 2: and then you can do hormone supplementation therapy, but what
• 1:53:13
  Speaker 2: you're not actually fixing and that. But that can also
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 2: be kind of a negative feedback loop. Like if you're
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: supplementing everything that your cholesterol would turn that your body
• 1:53:22
  Speaker 2: would turn cholesterol into that also is going to slow
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: cholesterol turnover because your body's like, oh, I don't I
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: don't need like I don't need to turn that into
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: testosterone if I'm supplementing with it. So I think that
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: we what we're missing in the whole discussion is thinking
• 1:53:39
  Speaker 2: about how do we how do we ramp up mitochondril
• 1:53:42
  Speaker 2: energy production, how do we prevent it from declining and
• 1:53:44
  Speaker 2: aging so that the body so that the brain can
• 1:53:47
  Speaker 2: rightly perceive that I am in a state of abundance
• 1:53:51
  Speaker 2: and it is rational to turn to ramp up this
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 2: metabolic grate. I think there are you know, it's when
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: you have a marker like this. It's not like every
• 1:54:00
  Speaker 2: single case of high cholesterol represents a failure to convert
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: it into anything good. Some people just produce more cholesterol
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: or they absorb more cholesterol, and I don't think those
• 1:54:10
  Speaker 2: are all equal in terms of their heart disease risk
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 2: where their health implications. But sluggish metaboli like high cholesterol
• 1:54:17
  Speaker 2: is in general a sign of sluggish metabolism under the
• 1:54:21
  Speaker 2: average set of circumstances. And a really interesting thread that
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 2: got left behind in nineteen seventy six is Broda. Barnes
• 1:54:31
  Speaker 2: wrote this book called Solved the Riddle of Heart Attacks
• 1:54:34
  Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy six, and his perspective was all about
• 1:54:37
  Speaker 2: thyroid hormone, and he argued that people who died of
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 2: infectious diseases were hypothyroid. We allowed them to live longer.
• 1:54:46
  Speaker 2: Now all the hypothyroid people are getting heart disease. The
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 2: reason he thought that is because thyroid hormone communicates to
• 1:54:53
  Speaker 2: your whole body that you are in a state of abundance.
• 1:54:56
  Speaker 2: And so if your brain thinks that you're not and
• 1:54:59
  Speaker 2: you add thyroid hor hormone in, now your whole body
• 1:55:01
  Speaker 2: is receiving the false signal that you are in a
• 1:55:03
  Speaker 2: state of abundance, and you feel better and many things improve,
• 1:55:06
  Speaker 2: and you can argue about whether that's good or bad,
• 1:55:09
  Speaker 2: but you're intervening at the point of the communication instead
• 1:55:12
  Speaker 2: of at the point of actually creating the abundance. But
• 1:55:14
  Speaker 2: thyroid hormone does signal, take up cholesterol from the cell,
• 1:55:19
  Speaker 2: move it along, do things with it, and so no
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 2: matter whether you're hypothyroide or not, people were up through
• 1:55:25
  Speaker 2: the night up until the nineteen seventies. They were lowering
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 2: cholesterol and they were lowering heart disease risk by just
• 1:55:30
  Speaker 2: putting everyone who had high cholesterol and thyroid hormone. And
• 1:55:33
  Speaker 2: the reason they stopped doing it is because some practitioners
• 1:55:37
  Speaker 2: got over zealous and they killed a few people because
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 2: they overdose them. But Broda Barnes argued that we don't
• 1:55:44
  Speaker 2: have to be over zealous and overdose them. We could
• 1:55:46
  Speaker 2: just be rationally dosing thyroid hormone. My perspective is different
• 1:55:51
  Speaker 2: from Broda Barnes. I take what he said. I think
• 1:55:53
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of value to it, but I say, like,
• 1:55:55
  Speaker 2: why is thyroid communicating the state of abundance. It's because
• 1:55:58
  Speaker 2: your mitochondria are doing a great converting your food to ATP.
• 1:56:03
  Speaker 2: Now you don't have to have a mitochondria dysfunction to
• 1:56:06
  Speaker 2: have low thyroid hormone because you're not in a state
• 1:56:08
  Speaker 2: of abundance. You can just not eat any food. So
• 1:56:10
  Speaker 2: you know, if you look at the metabolic consequences of starvation.
• 1:56:12
  Speaker 2: You just don't eat any food, your thyroid hormone go
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 2: in the gutter. So there are people out there who
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 2: just aren't eating enough. Like that is a thing, but
• 1:56:21
  Speaker 2: it's also just natural in the process of aging that
• 1:56:23
  Speaker 2: we're all getting progressively dysfunctional mitochondria and that we can
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 2: intervene at any point to have at least seventy five
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 2: percent of control over that, and so we want to
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 2: step up the game and you know work. So if
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 2: there's two things that people take away from this from
• 1:56:39
  Speaker 2: me today, I would want it to be always think
• 1:56:41
  Speaker 2: about your mitochondria first, and when you're thinking about them,
• 1:56:45
  Speaker 2: always go with a food first, pharma last approach. So
• 1:56:50
  Speaker 2: naturally create a state of abundance in the best way
• 1:56:53
  Speaker 2: that you can, and then move on to other things
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 2: after you've done that. That way, if you're going to
• 1:56:57
  Speaker 2: intervene with disastre replacement or thy raid hormone or statins
• 1:57:02
  Speaker 2: or whatever, I mean, statins are mitochondria toxins, so it
• 1:57:04
  Speaker 2: kind of kind of productive from a mitochondrial energy production standpoint.
• 1:57:11
  Speaker 2: And on that note, you know, so statins, for the
• 1:57:14
  Speaker 2: debates of statin associating myopathy are are. The rates of
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 2: them are debated, The rates at which Satan's cause diabetes debated,
• 1:57:23
  Speaker 2: but it's there, and it's because statins actually inhibit your
• 1:57:27
  Speaker 2: cookie ten synthesis, but they also inhibit other things in
• 1:57:31
  Speaker 2: the mitochondrial energy production engines that you can't take a
• 1:57:33
  Speaker 2: supplement for. So there's just no way around that statins
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 2: will decrease your mitochondria function. So I think by not
• 1:57:40
  Speaker 2: thinking about mitochondria first, it's like, instead, you take these
• 1:57:45
  Speaker 2: people with mediocre mitochondrial function, They're LDL in their blood
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 2: would get taken into their cells, you would do valuable
• 1:57:53
  Speaker 2: things with it if the state of abundance was present,
• 1:57:57
  Speaker 2: because not only does this all the signalings say do
• 1:57:59
  Speaker 2: something up with the cholesterol, but the way you actually
• 1:58:02
  Speaker 2: get cholesterol into the cell is to burn through a
• 1:58:04
  Speaker 2: bunch of ATP with motor proteins that actually move it
• 1:58:07
  Speaker 2: from outside the cell to inside the cell in order
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 2: to facilitate that turnover. So we've got a situation where
• 1:58:13
  Speaker 2: we know that everyone could improve their mitochondrial function, but
• 1:58:16
  Speaker 2: instead of doing that and then saying, okay, do we
• 1:58:18
  Speaker 2: really need a statin, we just say, oh, go straight
• 1:58:21
  Speaker 2: for the statin and now you're hurting the mitochondrial function
• 1:58:24
  Speaker 2: even more, and you're saying, well, it's it's the ROI
• 1:58:27
  Speaker 2: is good enough because I'm lowering their cholesterol and they
• 1:58:29
  Speaker 2: won't get heart disease. And the other mitochondria aren't doing
• 1:58:32
  Speaker 2: as great, but that's okay because we lowered the cholesterol.
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 2: I think that's totally backwards. You should you should always
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 2: be trying to optimize mitochondrial function first. You should always
• 1:58:40
  Speaker 2: be doing that with natural foods before you try anything else.
• 1:58:44
  Speaker 2: And then and then move on, like just set the foundation,
• 1:58:49
  Speaker 2: Set a good foundation, and then build your house on
• 1:58:51
  Speaker 2: top of it however you want. I'm not saying never
• 1:58:54
  Speaker 2: do never use any pharmaceuticals. I'm just saying, you know,
• 1:58:57
  Speaker 2: if you're gonna put if you're gonna build your house
• 1:58:59
  Speaker 2: out of pharmaceuticals, is do it on a good foundation.
• 1:59:01
  Speaker 1: Right, Do make an educated decision. What can be done
• 1:59:04
  Speaker 1: to increase thyroid function.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 2: The first thing is you actually want enough food and
• 1:59:12
  Speaker 2: you want good mitochondric conversion of the food atp. But
• 1:59:15
  Speaker 2: there's other things that could be important to having good
• 1:59:18
  Speaker 2: thyroid function as well, like having if you just look
• 1:59:22
  Speaker 2: at what is thyroid hormone so thyroid hormone is made
• 1:59:25
  Speaker 2: from the amino acid tyrosine, which you get from the
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 2: protein and the food that you eat, and then you
• 1:59:30
  Speaker 2: add iodine to it. So if you don't have enough protein,
• 1:59:33
  Speaker 2: you're not gonna have good thyroid function. If you don't
• 1:59:35
  Speaker 2: have enough iodine, you're not gonna have good diyroid functions.
• 1:59:38
  Speaker 2: Those are those are the the you know, step one
• 1:59:41
  Speaker 2: basics of the one oh one of the nutrition that
• 1:59:44
  Speaker 2: I need to have good diroide hormone and.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: Is iodine from supplementation or from food.
• 1:59:48
  Speaker 2: You can supplement with it. But I again, I always
• 1:59:51
  Speaker 2: believe in food first and what's rich. There are many
• 1:59:57
  Speaker 2: things that can be rich in iodine, but it's highly
• 1:59:59
  Speaker 2: dependent on the sol So a potato, for example, from
• 2:00:02
  Speaker 2: one part of the United States could be one hundred
• 2:00:05
  Speaker 2: times richer than a potato from another part of the country,
• 2:00:10
  Speaker 2: so that's a problem. Seafood is reliably high in iodine
• 2:00:15
  Speaker 2: because the rainfall just facilitates the minerals just falling into
• 2:00:19
  Speaker 2: the ocean. So it's you know, a lot of the
• 2:00:21
  Speaker 2: places that are low in iodine, it's because the pattern
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 2: of the evaporation causes the iodine to evaporate into the clouds.
• 2:00:27
  Speaker 2: But then like the cloud pattern goes around some mountain
• 2:00:29
  Speaker 2: and it never drops back down on you, and so
• 2:00:32
  Speaker 2: you get these areas of the country where they're just
• 2:00:34
  Speaker 2: on the wrong side of the mountain and they just get,
• 2:00:37
  Speaker 2: you know, progressive decline in the iodine. So I do
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 2: think that it's good for people to eat just some
• 2:00:43
  Speaker 2: seafood because like if you eat one or two pieces
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 2: of fish per week, for example, where you eat a
• 2:00:48
  Speaker 2: little bit of seaweed every day, that's going to cover
• 2:00:50
  Speaker 2: your bases. Whereas like if your food comes from one area,
• 2:00:54
  Speaker 2: you might be able to get enough iodine just eating
• 2:00:56
  Speaker 2: whatever you want, and in another area you won't. I
• 2:01:00
  Speaker 2: personally add in a quarter teaspoon of CLT powder to
• 2:01:04
  Speaker 2: my food prepped meals per day and it's just always
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 2: in there. It's got a little bit of flavor, but
• 2:01:11
  Speaker 2: I just mixed it into everything so you don't even
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 2: taste it. It's like it's just like I fortify my
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 2: own I fortify my food myself into the letting the
• 2:01:17
  Speaker 2: government do it. But you know, so that that's one
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 2: way to do that. And then there are some things
• 2:01:24
  Speaker 2: that increase your iodine requirement so women with break big breasts,
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 2: for example, can need much more iodine because iodine the
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 2: breasts are a sync for iodine. Part of that is
• 2:01:37
  Speaker 2: just the nature of the tissue, and part of it
• 2:01:39
  Speaker 2: is very logical because if you do have a baby,
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 2: you are gonna start feeding the baby the iodine, and
• 2:01:44
  Speaker 2: so that might be part of why that's prepped. But
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 2: there's some evidence that a lot of breast problems are
• 2:01:50
  Speaker 2: solved by extra iodine, so fiber assistic breast disease, for example,
• 2:01:54
  Speaker 2: there's some support for getting ten fifteen times the normal
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 2: amount or if even fifty times a normal amount of iodine,
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 2: and I think that's because some women with very large
• 2:02:05
  Speaker 2: breasts just they just you know, ninety eight percent of
• 2:02:08
  Speaker 2: it goes there. And then there are also like the
• 2:02:13
  Speaker 2: less the more toxic your living environment is, the more
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 2: iodine you're gonna need. Because there's a lot of bromine
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 2: that's in synthetic materials for couches, it's flame retardants, so
• 2:02:26
  Speaker 2: all kinds of paint and materials that are used in
• 2:02:30
  Speaker 2: household living can be a source of environmental bromine. And
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 2: then fluoride if you drink fluoridated water and you brush
• 2:02:38
  Speaker 2: your teeth of fluoid tooth based that's going to increase
• 2:02:40
  Speaker 2: your need for iodine as well. So there there's a
• 2:02:43
  Speaker 2: bunch of reasons that people might want to Well, I'll
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 2: say this, I think it's crazy that every time I've
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 2: seen a woman who's on thyroid hormone and I've seen
• 2:02:54
  Speaker 2: and I've had them get iodine data, their iodine is
• 2:02:57
  Speaker 2: low and they've never gotten attested before, and I just
• 2:03:01
  Speaker 2: you know, there's these medicine has these myths about nutrition
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 2: that like, we solved all the nutritional deficiencies one hundred
• 2:03:06
  Speaker 2: years ago, so we don't need to think about it.
• 2:03:08
  Speaker 2: But they did these dumbass things that may that like
• 2:03:12
  Speaker 2: nullified that. So, for example, the reason that we didn't
• 2:03:16
  Speaker 2: have idine deficiency anymore is because they fortified salt with it.
• 2:03:19
  Speaker 2: They said, everyone eats salt, so let's just put the
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 2: iodine in the salt, and so everyone got had fortified salt.
• 2:03:26
  Speaker 2: But then what did they do. They came along and
• 2:03:28
  Speaker 2: they said, don't eat the salt. It's gonna give you
• 2:03:29
  Speaker 2: a heart attack. And so what they didn't realize was
• 2:03:33
  Speaker 2: when they told people to not eat the salt, now
• 2:03:35
  Speaker 2: they're not getting their iodiet and now you know, so
• 2:03:37
  Speaker 2: there's some places where there's like I talked to one
• 2:03:39
  Speaker 2: cardiologist who works out in the Midwest. He says, I
• 2:03:42
  Speaker 2: see people walking in with a look. You can see
• 2:03:45
  Speaker 2: the lump in their throat now, and and they have
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 2: a goiter, which is just like the A goiter is
• 2:03:51
  Speaker 2: a very hungry thyroid gland where it's like I don't
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 2: have any iodide, where's the iodine? It just starts growing
• 2:03:56
  Speaker 2: to try to find it, and you wind up with
• 2:03:58
  Speaker 2: you can feel a lump in your wrote, not see anything,
• 2:04:00
  Speaker 2: but if it gets really really bad, you can see
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 2: a bump in the neck, and if it gets insanely bad,
• 2:04:06
  Speaker 2: you can have like a grapefruit hanging from the neck.
• 2:04:08
  Speaker 2: That doesn't happen anymore. But but you know, this cardiologist
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 2: told me, like, I actually see people with goiter now,
• 2:04:14
  Speaker 2: but no one's looking for it because they don't think
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 2: people get goiter anymore, and so most they just most
• 2:04:20
  Speaker 2: of them just walk around with the lump in their
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 2: neck until they find me.
• 2:04:22
  Speaker 1: He said, Yeah, No, salt in the diet is so wild. Yeah,
• 2:04:27
  Speaker 1: that one's so crazy.
• 2:04:29
  Speaker 2: And then there are there are other things too, like
• 2:04:31
  Speaker 2: you the supplement that you're taking has glue to thione
• 2:04:34
  Speaker 2: in it. Well, Selenium is a mineral that helps you
• 2:04:38
  Speaker 2: use glue tothione to protect your thyroid gland from damage.
• 2:04:44
  Speaker 2: And there are a number of trials that show that
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 2: selenium lowers the ant the autoimmune antibodies that occur in
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 2: hashimotos thyroiditis, which is a type of autoimmune thyroid problem.
• 2:04:58
  Speaker 2: And the reason it does that is because it's helping
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 2: glute to thione protect the thyroid from damage, because producing
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 2: thyroid is a very messy process. But that also, you know,
• 2:05:07
  Speaker 2: if you look at what that would imply, it would
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 2: also imply that all the other antioxidant nutrients are very
• 2:05:14
  Speaker 2: important in the thyroid as well, because vitamin C and
• 2:05:17
  Speaker 2: zinc and copper, manganese, and a whole suite of iron.
• 2:05:22
  Speaker 2: Even you know, too much iron is bad for you,
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 2: but you need iron to protect yourself from oxidative stress.
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 2: So all of these things are helping prevent tissue damage
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 2: in the thyroid gland, which helps prevent the immune system
• 2:05:36
  Speaker 2: from going haywire trying to deal with that damage. And
• 2:05:39
  Speaker 2: so all of those things are important for thyroid hormone.
• 2:05:43
  Speaker 1: One more thing I wanted to talk to you about
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: is you brought up our ethereal I don't know how
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: to say that word, right, our ethereal sclerosis. What does
• 2:05:51
  Speaker 1: the supplement natokinase?
• 2:05:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah, natokinase is an enzyme that helps break down blood
• 2:05:58
  Speaker 2: clots and atherosclerosis. Is what it really is is the
• 2:06:06
  Speaker 2: immune system quarantining damaged particles. Those particles are damaged because
• 2:06:12
  Speaker 2: you loaded them with seed oils and then your mitochondria
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 2: function declined and you lost your defense against the damage,
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 2: and then you got progressively more seed oil damage, and
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 2: the immune system's trying to protect the blood vessel from it.
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 2: That's what the plaque is. But that plaque is highly inflammatory.
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: That this is a crazy statement. So the plaque that
• 2:06:32
  Speaker 1: people have always considered to be from the most people
• 2:06:35
  Speaker 1: will tell you it's fromcholesterol. If you ask the average person,
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: you believe it's really from seed oils.
• 2:06:43
  Speaker 2: I'm not alone in this. So if you no, I
• 2:06:47
  Speaker 2: don't think you are. If you go back. So if
• 2:06:48
  Speaker 2: you go back to nineteen eighty four when we saw
• 2:06:50
  Speaker 2: that Time magazine picture. The other thing that was going
• 2:06:53
  Speaker 2: on politically and scientifically in nineteen eighty four was the
• 2:06:57
  Speaker 2: NIH Consensus Conference that said that they had proven, Like
• 2:07:01
  Speaker 2: Time magazine cover was a reaction to the NIH Consensus
• 2:07:05
  Speaker 2: conference where they said, we as the scientific community, now
• 2:07:10
  Speaker 2: certify that we are in consensus that cholesterol is the
• 2:07:13
  Speaker 2: cause of heart disease. And that's why Time magazine ran
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 2: with that.
• 2:07:17
  Speaker 1: With that cover, was Fauci running the NIH back.
• 2:07:21
  Speaker 2: Then, Aha, Fauci because that's when that was, so Fauci
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 2: was not running this, but that was I think possibly
• 2:07:31
  Speaker 2: also the year that Fauci took over at NIAI d oh, okay, yeah,
• 2:07:37
  Speaker 2: it's you know, it's a side bar. But there's a
• 2:07:40
  Speaker 2: very interesting study that looked at the average age of
• 2:07:46
  Speaker 2: principal investigators of studies. Principal investigator means like the guy
• 2:07:50
  Speaker 2: who ran the lab. And so since nineteen eighty four,
• 2:07:55
  Speaker 2: the average age of an NH funded principal investigator has
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 2: gone up by one year per year. And so that
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 2: looks like the one group took over the money in
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty four and then they've just been giving themselves
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 2: grants ever since and now they're really old. That's what
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 2: that looks like. But anyway, so yes, I think I
• 2:08:20
  Speaker 2: believe you can fact check me on this, but I
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 2: believe Fauci took over NIAID where he got where he
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 2: became very in control of a lot of NIH money
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 2: in that same year. So it's really weird the way
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 2: these years work out, Like you know, like nineteen thirteen,
• 2:08:37
  Speaker 2: you've got Federal Reserve, you got World War One, you've
• 2:08:40
  Speaker 2: got all these changes to the structure of the government,
• 2:08:42
  Speaker 2: like they picked this year out of history. And it's
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 2: always there's always these big, massive, big things all happening
• 2:08:49
  Speaker 2: in different areas. But anyway, so there was something in
• 2:08:51
  Speaker 2: there in nineteen eighty four. Maybe it was maybe it
• 2:08:55
  Speaker 2: was self fulfilling prophecy, but anyway, so okay, So the
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 2: chair of the NIH Consensus Conference in nineteen eighty four
• 2:09:04
  Speaker 2: was Daniel Steinberg. Daniel Steinberg passed away a few years ago,
• 2:09:09
  Speaker 2: but he was kind of there were three big names
• 2:09:12
  Speaker 2: that came out of that conference, and Steinberg was one
• 2:09:16
  Speaker 2: of them, and the others were Brown and Goldstein, who
• 2:09:18
  Speaker 2: won the Nobel Prize in nineteen eighty five. The next
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 2: year for you know, you can see how they hooked
• 2:09:24
  Speaker 2: up their Nobel Prize. So they nineteen eighty five they
• 2:09:27
  Speaker 2: got the Nobel Prize for discovering the LDL receptor, which
• 2:09:31
  Speaker 2: is the thing that brings cholesterol from your blood into
• 2:09:34
  Speaker 2: your cells, and all the drugs that work on this
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 2: are targeting that receptor. So that became the springboard for
• 2:09:41
  Speaker 2: all the drugs that people are on for cardionuscular disease now.
• 2:09:44
  Speaker 2: So this is kind of funny that the Nobel Prize
• 2:09:46
  Speaker 2: was It was probably in the fix in nineteen eighty four,
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 2: you know, that was the other thing they were working on,
• 2:09:51
  Speaker 2: but because there's no way that would have happened if
• 2:09:54
  Speaker 2: the nineteen eighty four consensus conference in that But the
• 2:09:56
  Speaker 2: point I want to make is that Daniel Steinberg agrees
• 2:10:00
  Speaker 2: with me. I didn't come up with this idea myself.
• 2:10:02
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's dead now, but you know, for for
• 2:10:05
  Speaker 2: decades he was one of the people who believed that
• 2:10:11
  Speaker 2: because it was his lab that discovered that the PUFAs,
• 2:10:15
  Speaker 2: which are seat oil fats, have to become damaged on
• 2:10:19
  Speaker 2: the outer membrane of the LDL particle for it to
• 2:10:21
  Speaker 2: get taken up by the immune system. That was his discovery.
• 2:10:25
  Speaker 2: And he's the guy that shared the conference that led
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 2: to the Time magazine cover. So I'm not pulling this
• 2:10:30
  Speaker 2: out of my ass. I'm pulling this out of my
• 2:10:33
  Speaker 2: having read Daniel Steinberg's papers, and so he was this
• 2:10:40
  Speaker 2: is how olive oil became the darling of the Mediterranean diet,
• 2:10:43
  Speaker 2: which is, you know, so the Mediterranean diet is kind
• 2:10:46
  Speaker 2: of funny because it's not that it's very loosely based
• 2:10:50
  Speaker 2: on what they eat in the Mediterranean, and it's really
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 2: just kind of like a branding thing where they said like, okay,
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 2: well this diet is good enough for us to say
• 2:10:58
  Speaker 2: eat this, this, this, and this, and we're gonna call
• 2:10:59
  Speaker 2: it myterranean But anyway, so what happened was after the
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 2: La Veterans Administration Hospital study showed in nineteen sixty, well,
• 2:11:12
  Speaker 2: actually they probabished it a few years later, so somewhere
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 2: in the early seventies, it's kind of looking like seed
• 2:11:18
  Speaker 2: oils caused cancer. And so they're looking at that and
• 2:11:20
  Speaker 2: they're like, well, maybe corn oil is not the best.
• 2:11:23
  Speaker 2: And they're like, well, we already told people to eat
• 2:11:26
  Speaker 2: the corn oil because they can't eat the saturated fat,
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 2: so we can't tell them go back to the butter.
• 2:11:29
  Speaker 2: So what a we're going to tell them to eat?
• 2:11:31
  Speaker 2: And they were like, well, olive oil is a nice balance.
• 2:11:33
  Speaker 2: It's kind of in between the two it's not saturated fat,
• 2:11:37
  Speaker 2: but it's probably not going to cause cancer, Like we're
• 2:11:39
  Speaker 2: worried about this, and so all of those kind of
• 2:11:42
  Speaker 2: born out of that, and Steinberg's perspective on promoting olive
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 2: oil as being good for heart disease was, you know,
• 2:11:51
  Speaker 2: the Steinberg is saying, I'm worried that the real problem
• 2:11:56
  Speaker 2: with these lipoproteins and the blood causing the plaque is
• 2:11:59
  Speaker 2: actually the seed oils that we're telling people to eat.
• 2:12:02
  Speaker 2: And so yeah, we can use cholesterol as a marker
• 2:12:04
  Speaker 2: for that, but I don't know that I want to
• 2:12:06
  Speaker 2: be telling people to eat corn oil. So what am
• 2:12:08
  Speaker 2: I going to tell them to eat? Because I'm gonna
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 2: have egg on my face pun intended if I you know,
• 2:12:13
  Speaker 2: if I tell them to go back to eating eggs
• 2:12:15
  Speaker 2: and butter. So olive oil is this happy middle ground
• 2:12:18
  Speaker 2: where maybe we can consume a lot of we can
• 2:12:20
  Speaker 2: consume all of oil to our heart's content and it's
• 2:12:23
  Speaker 2: not going to create the tissue damage that drives the plaque,
• 2:12:27
  Speaker 2: but it's also not going to ramp up the cholesterol.
• 2:12:30
  Speaker 2: And so we can just navigate the middle that way.
• 2:12:33
  Speaker 2: And you know the reason that no one appreciates this
• 2:12:38
  Speaker 2: is because medicine thinks in binaries. So I have this
• 2:12:46
  Speaker 2: saying all medical diagnoses are false, but some are useful.
• 2:12:51
  Speaker 2: And I take this from a staying in statistics, which
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 2: is all models are false, but some are useful. And
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 2: what that is is in appreciation that once you impose
• 2:13:02
  Speaker 2: a model on the data, you're now biasing it towards
• 2:13:05
  Speaker 2: the way you think about it, and you know, and
• 2:13:09
  Speaker 2: so it's like it's a reality distortion filter to make
• 2:13:12
  Speaker 2: the data more usable. So if I can use the
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 2: model to try to predict something, and I see it's true,
• 2:13:16
  Speaker 2: I might leave details behind, but I'm focusing on the
• 2:13:19
  Speaker 2: things that help me make those decisions. So a medical
• 2:13:23
  Speaker 2: diagnosis is a hypothesis that the patient will respond to
• 2:13:27
  Speaker 2: the treatment that they're given, and you test that hypothesis
• 2:13:30
  Speaker 2: by giving the patient that treatment, and then you see
• 2:13:33
  Speaker 2: if they get better, and if they don't get better,
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 2: you take them off the treatment. That's why, you know,
• 2:13:37
  Speaker 2: some things they just people just stand on the drug
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 2: they're put on. But look at how they treat depression
• 2:13:42
  Speaker 2: or epilepsy. They you know, they epilepsy, they just put
• 2:13:46
  Speaker 2: them on one ben zone. It doesn't work. They put
• 2:13:47
  Speaker 2: them on the next one. They keep rotating until they
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 2: find one that stops the seizures, depression. They put people
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 2: on one antidepressant, Oh it doesn't didn't work, We'll put
• 2:13:55
  Speaker 2: them on the next one. They just rotate through it
• 2:13:57
  Speaker 2: because they're just looking at it like they have a
• 2:13:59
  Speaker 2: model that predicts their hypothesis that they'll respond. They didn't,
• 2:14:02
  Speaker 2: so they switched them onto the next approach. So, because
• 2:14:07
  Speaker 2: medicine cares about triaging decisions about what to do for treatment,
• 2:14:15
  Speaker 2: they say, I only need a model that helps me
• 2:14:18
  Speaker 2: do that, and I can ignore all the other details.
• 2:14:21
  Speaker 2: But what happens is you leave these historical threads behind,
• 2:14:25
  Speaker 2: like the fact that the chair of the conference that
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 2: proved to put in your magazine that everyone had to
• 2:14:33
  Speaker 2: change their diet because of the concept that they said
• 2:14:37
  Speaker 2: was proven. That is now the basis for the drugs
• 2:14:40
  Speaker 2: that I'm going to prescribe you. The fact that he
• 2:14:43
  Speaker 2: had these you know that he also showed that it
• 2:14:46
  Speaker 2: was seed oils in the membrane of the LDLL particle
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 2: that drive the plaque doesn't matter because that doesn't change
• 2:14:51
  Speaker 2: whether I'm going to give you a statin, you know,
• 2:14:54
  Speaker 2: and so and so. If it doesn't change how I'm
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 2: going to treat you. It doesn't matter, which means that
• 2:15:00
  Speaker 2: I could ignore it if someone asked me what you
• 2:15:03
  Speaker 2: should eat.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 2:15:05
  Speaker 2: But but but the problem was when they did the
• 2:15:07
  Speaker 2: randomized controlled trials with the seed oils, they were like, oh,
• 2:15:10
  Speaker 2: it doubled the atheros chlerotic plaque. What do we do?
• 2:15:13
  Speaker 2: Put it in the box in the basement. Wow, you know,
• 2:15:16
  Speaker 2: And so there's all this this like, well, yes, those
• 2:15:18
  Speaker 2: details are true, but master John, get out of my hair.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 2: I don't want to but I don't.
• 2:15:23
  Speaker 1: I can't handle the truth, right right, And so how
• 2:15:26
  Speaker 1: does nano kinase?
• 2:15:27
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, right, yeah, I did it.
• 2:15:32
  Speaker 2: I did it.
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 2: So the problem when you get out, when you get
• 2:15:39
  Speaker 2: a heart attack or a stroke from atherosclerosis, it is
• 2:15:44
  Speaker 2: not because in like ninety eight percent of cases, it
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 2: is not because the plaque included the blood vessel and
• 2:15:53
  Speaker 2: stopped the blood flow. In fact, usually when a plaque develops,
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 2: it it develops backwards like it it just so you're
• 2:16:02
  Speaker 2: let's say this is your blood vessel. The plaque's going
• 2:16:04
  Speaker 2: to bulge out this way instead of this way because
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 2: your body tries not to narrow the blood vessel because
• 2:16:09
  Speaker 2: you do need the blood flow right, So it's almost
• 2:16:13
  Speaker 2: never the case that the plaque is just squeezing the
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 2: blood vessel shut. What happens is the inflammatory process inside
• 2:16:19
  Speaker 2: the plaque, which is especially driven by the seed oils
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 2: oxidizing in there and going rancid. That's not the only factor,
• 2:16:26
  Speaker 2: but it's one of them. That process degrades the collagen
• 2:16:33
  Speaker 2: that covers the plaque, and it makes micro tears, and
• 2:16:38
  Speaker 2: the micro tears and the collagen get healed by scar
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 2: tissue that gets laid on top of it. And so
• 2:16:46
  Speaker 2: when you get narrowing into the blood vessel, it's because
• 2:16:48
  Speaker 2: you're building up scar tissue on top of Like, it
• 2:16:51
  Speaker 2: keeps breaking and you keep building scar tissue on it.
• 2:16:54
  Speaker 2: But if it breaks and you get a blood clot
• 2:16:56
  Speaker 2: that is big enough in the acute moment to block
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 2: the whole artery, that's what usually causes most heart attacks.
• 2:17:05
  Speaker 2: Natokinase is an enzyme derived from Nato, which is a
• 2:17:10
  Speaker 2: Japanese fermented soybean paste that is also incidentally very high
• 2:17:16
  Speaker 2: in vitamin K two, which helps you protect against calcium
• 2:17:20
  Speaker 2: deposits that weaken the plaque and make it more likely
• 2:17:23
  Speaker 2: to rupture. So actually just eating nato would be better.
• 2:17:27
  Speaker 2: This is food why food first works, right, If you
• 2:17:32
  Speaker 2: had K two N nato kinas, you'd be even better off.
• 2:17:34
  Speaker 2: But the natokinase to helps break apart blood clots. So
• 2:17:38
  Speaker 2: if in some people you might just have a predisposition
• 2:17:41
  Speaker 2: because you've got systemic inflammation where like you just clot
• 2:17:45
  Speaker 2: more easily, or you might have someone who's got a
• 2:17:47
  Speaker 2: genetic defect in the ability to degrade clots and so
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 2: their baseline clotting is higher than normal. If that's the case,
• 2:17:54
  Speaker 2: then they're even more likely to get a heart attack
• 2:17:57
  Speaker 2: or stroke when the plaqu ruptures because they're baseline predisposition
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 2: to claud is higher. And then on top of that,
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 2: if you've got someone with really bad ateriskrosis, they might
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 2: be clotting all the time, like any every day might
• 2:18:11
  Speaker 2: be a new day where they can have a heart attack.
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 2: And so in both of those cases, natokines is going
• 2:18:15
  Speaker 2: to degrade the clots as soon as they occur, and
• 2:18:19
  Speaker 2: it's going to lower the total clotting. And the downside
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 2: risk of that is, you know, maybe you bleed too
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 2: easily if you get cut. But the upside potential of
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 2: that is if you're one of the people who are
• 2:18:30
  Speaker 2: a candidate for any one of these days. Now, you're
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 2: going to get a heart attacker a stroke. Having taken
• 2:18:35
  Speaker 2: two thousand iu of natokaines that day may have prevented
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 2: you from getting a heart attackers stroke because the clot
• 2:18:43
  Speaker 2: formed and you degraded it more quickly.
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: Fascinating. Listen, there's a lot to take in, but let's
• 2:18:50
  Speaker 1: do this again. Yeah, Please and tell everybody where they
• 2:18:54
  Speaker 1: can find you and where you are on social media
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: and your website and all that.
• 2:18:58
  Speaker 2: I write a newsletter at Chris st John PhD dot
• 2:19:01
  Speaker 2: substock dot com, and you can look into my mitochondrial
• 2:19:05
  Speaker 2: testing at Meto dot.
• 2:19:06
  Speaker 1: Need All right, thank you very much. This is really
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: fun man, I really appreciate it. I'm glad we did it.
• 2:19:11
  Speaker 1: All right, Bye everybody,