Latest / Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News / Portland’s Doom Loop: The experiment that broke a state, and could break yours next

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Portland’s Doom Loop: The experiment that broke a state, and could break yours next · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:26
  Well, hello everyone, and welcome to the 10 Penny Files.
• 0:29
  I'm your host, Dr.
• 0:30
  Sherry Tenpenny.
• 0:32
  Here on the 10 Penny Files, we dive into vital and often controversial discussions on topics that will challenge what you've been told and reveal what's been hidden.
• 0:41
  These compelling conversations will make you think, spark debate, and hopefully inspire action.
• 0:46
  Join us each day at 3 p.m.
• 0:48
  Eastern time to hear from authors and documentary filmmakers who have something important to say but have often been silenced and censored.
• 0:56
  Today's conversation is with award-winning journalist, media strategist, and advisor to senior executives, Dennis Neal.
• 1:04
  He's working on a new book called Oregoners.
• 1:08
  And he's got boots on the ground information of what's going on in Portland, Oregon, that is a representative of what may be happening across the entire city.
• 1:16
  So he has their extreme policies are something that he has firsthand information about.
• 1:22
  The book is not going to be simply a warning.
• 1:24
  It is a call to action.
• 1:26
  And his he's here to talk about his book.
• 1:29
  Dennis, welcome to the 10 Penny Files.
• 1:31
  Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:33
  I do have one question for you, though, before we start into uh talking about Oregon and Oregoners in Portland.
• 1:40
  You live in New York City.
• 1:42
  Did you used to live in Oregon or what sparked your interest in never but never?
• 1:47
  I've been in New York for 43 years.
• 1:49
  And as I watched this city fall in love with a foreign-born Muslim socialist preaching free stuff for all, let's make the rich pay for it.
• 2:00
  I became more interested in where this guy came from.
• 2:04
  And then, you know, he's backed by a group called Democrats, Socialists of America.
• 2:08
  And it turns out that the Portland, Oregon, newly elected city council.
• 2:15
  The elections in November, they elected four members of this very same socialist group to their council.
• 2:22
  They have two allies, liberals on it, and they now dominate the city agenda.
• 2:26
  And they're in favor of all kinds of liberal policies that are just killing Oregon, killing Portland.
• 2:34
  And Oregoners, I wanted to, that's my work and title, and it's a work in progress.
• 2:38
  In fact, I'm going back to Portland on Sunday for another visit.
• 2:42
  And uh I want this, I think Portland and Oregon are a canary in a coal mine for the rest of America.
• 2:49
  When a state and a city become overwhelmingly dominated by only one party, especially when it's the liberal Democrat Party.
• 2:56
  Um suddenly it is a self-contained, insane environment.
• 3:01
  There's no diversity of ideas, there's no challenge to what you're doing, there's no examination of results or accountability.
• 3:08
  And so you just end up going into a doom loop, a spiral downward.
• 3:14
  You know, the richest taxpayers leave the city.
• 3:17
  A billion dollars a year in income, Dr.
• 3:20
  T are leaving Portland metropolitan area every year because Portland, though it's no New York, has the second highest tax rate in on income taxes in the entire country after only New York.
• 3:35
  And yet, is there accountability?
• 3:37
  Are you getting results for all that money that's being taxed?
• 3:40
  Here's the thing there's a more than 20-minute wait for a cop to show up when you dial 911 and say something violent is happening right now.
• 3:49
  Um, four times the per capita average in America.
• 3:53
  That's the homeless problem in Portland.
• 3:56
  They spend more than 700 million dollars a year and with private donations, probably closer to a billion on a city that has 7,000 homeless.
• 4:05
  That's way too much.
• 4:06
  Meanwhile, they're not taking them off the streets, they're not trying to get them off of drugs.
• 4:11
  They are instead are giving them clean crap crack pipes, clean needles, foil that they can hold the the powder in so that they can smoke, so smoke it on the foil.
• 4:23
  And I had a guy there tell me, and he was homeless himself for four years in the early 2000s, addicted to opioids in Portland.
• 4:31
  And now he just had his 19th year, 19th anniversary of sobriety.
• 4:36
  And he said, if you want to end homelessness, you should make it as uncomfortable and miserable as possible.
• 4:44
  And here he said, we view the homeless as victims of capitalism.
• 4:48
  And another guy told me social service is turned into instead social justice, and they don't hold them accountable.
• 4:55
  And instead, you have the county passing out tents and tarps to the homeless, so they can camp almost anywhere they want under Supreme Court ruling that came out of Oregon, the grants pass ruling.
• 5:08
  And then the city sweeps crew comes in and cleans up all the trash and confiscates all the tents and tarps and throws them out, and the homeless go back to the county and they get more tents and tarps.
• 5:20
  No one works on getting them off the street because that might devastate the income that the homeless industrial complex gets.
• 5:28
  All the NGOs who receive millions of dollars to help the homeless, but they end up kind of giving them food, so much food, more than they could eat, that it ends up feeding the rats.
• 5:38
  These are all based on the conversations I've had there with people locally.
• 5:43
  Wow, that is that's really a lot to digest right there and unpack.
• 5:48
  And I think that the thing that stuck out to me about what you just said is to get homeless people off the street is to make it as uncomfortable for them as possible.
• 5:58
  Instead of instead of building new housing and moving them into comfort zones that they don't know how to manage anyways.
• 6:05
  Right.
• 6:06
  It is striking to me.
• 6:07
  I interviewed a guy there.
• 6:08
  He's on X.
• 6:09
  You can find him, Kevin Dahlgren, D-A-H-L-G-R-E-N.
• 6:15
  He was working for homeless agencies for 18 years.
• 6:18
  He then becomes a maverick.
• 6:19
  He spins out of there.
• 6:20
  He starts putting up several videos a day where he interviews the homeless.
• 6:24
  He asks them things like, and he's been to Bend, Oregon, five hours to the south.
• 6:29
  It has a huge homeless problem.
• 6:31
  I've heard that Eugene, Oregon, uh nearer to Portland itself separately.
• 6:36
  It has some of the highest per capita homeless rates in the entire country.
• 6:40
  And it's because they're so kind.
• 6:43
  And so something like by some estimates, 25% of the homeless uh homelessness population are in migrants who come there because they hear it's really cushy here.
• 6:53
  And I'm sorry, but it's what happens when you start feeding stray dogs.
• 6:58
  They start coming back again and again because you keep feeding them.
• 7:02
  And that's what they're doing to the homeless there.
• 7:04
  Instead of saying, we'll help you, but you have to get off drugs.
• 7:07
  You have to, you know.
• 7:10
  They're not trying to fix it.
• 7:11
  They're just trying to make sure they're okay.
• 7:15
  So there's a deep divide there of what's going on with the regular people in the state's politics.
• 7:21
  Yes.
• 7:22
  I have friends that live in in Portland.
• 7:25
  And they're and I put and I have people that have friends that live in Oregon, but they live on the west side of the state.
• 7:31
  You know, um, what is the deep dive that's going on there?
• 7:34
  Does the state consider it a how does this kind of work it's extraordinary, isn't it?
• 7:40
  This divide because you have the leaders, the democrats.
• 7:44
  It's been a one-party state.
• 7:45
  You know, they haven't elected a Republican governor in 40 years, okay?
• 7:50
  So they dominate everything, right?
• 7:52
  And so they just keep getting re-elected and they've lost touch with the people.
• 7:55
  Now, there's this group, um, save our cities.
• 7:59
  I came across a poll that they commissioned by a national pub polling firm, a very credible firm, public opinion strategies.
• 8:06
  And it turns out that only 15% of registered voters in Oregon say, oh, our top priority should be the progressive agenda, LGBTQ rights, climate change, social justice, only 15%.
• 8:23
  More than 60% say, oh, the top priority should be jobs and growth.
• 8:29
  And yet, this state, the politicians are anti-growth.
• 8:33
  They're anti-business, they're anti-wealth creation.
• 8:36
  They keep socking the rich again and again.
• 8:40
  Um, that poll also shows 67% of voters agree with the phrase that, oh, yeah, uh, Oregon is our economy is seriously on the wrong track.
• 8:53
  That's two-thirds.
• 8:54
  43% of Democrats agree with that statement.
• 8:57
  And among the unaffiliated, that is the largest cohort in the state, larger than the Democrat Party, larger than the Republican Party.
• 9:07
  73% agree that, oh, yeah, we're on a seriously wrong track.
• 9:11
  Now, most of that independent is not really in the middle.
• 9:15
  They're almost as liberal as as the Democrats, it turns out they're just ordinary and don't want to be affiliated with any party, but it's just uh overwhelmingly, and and the state's in danger of crushing itself.
• 9:28
  There's a leadership conference going on in Portland, 23rd annual on Monday.
• 9:34
  I'm gonna be there because it's shooting fish in a barrel.
• 9:37
  Every state and local economic official, business owners, forecasters, university academics, I mean, congressmen and staff, they're all gonna be there.
• 9:46
  You know, and I'll be there looking for still more sources.
• 9:50
  And I talked to a guy there who's done this economic report that's much awaited.
• 9:56
  And it's such a brainwashed environment.
• 9:59
  People
• 10:00
  There are not afraid enough.
• 10:02
  And they are not, there's no one saying, like in the movie, um, you know, that Patrick Swayze, he's a ghost.
• 10:08
  Oh, yeah, the movie Ghost, where Whoopi Goldberg just at one point just turns to Demi Moore.
• 10:14
  She says, Molly, you in danger girl.
• 10:17
  There's nobody in Oregon that's grabbing the people, the leaders by the lapels and saying, We're in trouble, wake up.
• 10:23
  Well, there's a guy who's gonna have a report there on Monday about the economic forecast.
• 10:28
  And that look, we we've got we've got a choice here.
• 10:30
  We could grow.
• 10:32
  But right now, there's all of these things that are stopping that from happening.
• 10:36
  And meanwhile, Washington and Texas are raiding companies.
• 10:42
  Uh, you know, they're working on luring them away because things are so much worse in Portland than where they are.
• 10:48
  In fact, Clark County Washington is right next door to Portland.
• 10:52
  It's a 15 or 30 minute drive or something or less.
• 10:55
  And they have higher job growth than pre-COVID while Portland is mired and has not recovered from COVID five years ago at all.
• 11:05
  And it's because of those tax policies and those regulations and that anti-business bent.
• 11:11
  But here's the thing, Dr.
• 11:12
  T.
• 11:12
  I'm sorry to filibuster.
• 11:14
  If you dare speak up, if you dare oppose the dogma and the reign of the day by these Democrats, they will punish you.
• 11:24
  They will come after you.
• 11:26
  The owner of the cheerful tortoise, it's been in place for 75 years.
• 11:30
  She's owned it for 20 years, I think it is.
• 11:33
  Amy Nichols.
• 11:37
  Amy Nichols, I think it is.
• 11:38
  Yes, the owner of the Cheerful Tortoise.
• 11:40
  Um, every time she goes on Fox Business Network to talk about how, you know, she had 14 break ins at another bar she owns in town uh in a matter of a year at the at the Cheerful Tortoise that Riders broke out these stained glass windows that have been there for like 90 years or something with a little cheerful turtle, you know, on the cover, and they just broke and smashed it.
• 12:00
  But she goes on Fox business to talk about it.
• 12:02
  Suddenly, there's complaints to the health department that I got food poisoning, and there's you know, uh a dozen reviews posted to Yelp, giving her one star instead of five stars, she usually gets.
• 12:12
  And the the health department will send an inspector, the laundry department, the liquor licensing department.
• 12:18
  They descend on her.
• 12:18
  I'm interviewing her there two weeks ago.
• 12:20
  She's talking about it.
• 12:21
  She says, Now, we just had a health inspector six weeks ago after I went on Fox Business.
• 12:25
  I got a hundred percent positive rating.
• 12:27
  So, but today, you see that guy behind the bar?
• 12:29
  It's another health inspector because I'm going on Fox business tomorrow morning.
• 12:32
  So they they do everything they can to retaliate and muzzle you.
• 12:36
  I talked to a democratic operative, Kevin Looper.
• 12:41
  Kevin joined up with a Republican operative, another big veteran, Dan Lavy.
• 12:45
  They're working with this group, okay, and they're gonna uh uh uh get some fixes on the uh on the ballot by golly.
• 12:52
  Let's let's start proposing fixes.
• 12:55
  So they do TV interviews locally, and a couple nights later, this guy, Kevin Looper, the liberal Democrat guy, someone shoots out the cars of his windows as it's parked on the street right outside his bedroom window.
• 13:07
  And so, which was a big warning, you know, how dare you try to fix any of this?
• 13:12
  How dare you come up against the Democrat dogma that you know, the the whole Democrat domination of the entire thing?
• 13:20
  It's just really gone way too far, and it's happening elsewhere.
• 13:26
  And yet, Portland was really nice small area, you really get a chance to look at these fish in a in a in a fishbowl.
• 13:33
  So maybe since you are so invested in in figuring this out and talking to these people and have been boots on the ground.
• 13:41
  It's a question that I've asked a lot of people, because I'm I'm a conservative Republican.
• 13:46
  I can't get my head inside of a liberal Democrat.
• 13:50
  What do they want at the end?
• 13:52
  What is their end game?
• 13:53
  What do they want it to look like in the end?
• 13:56
  What is that?
• 13:57
  What are they aiming towards?
• 13:58
  Shutting down all these businesses and doing all the damage like what you said, cowtowing and catering to the homeless people.
• 14:06
  What do they really want it to look like?
• 14:08
  What's their end game?
• 14:10
  Do you remember this movie a long time ago?
• 14:13
  HG Wells' the time machine, and there were these morlocks, these underground creatures who were eating people.
• 14:20
  And meanwhile, the people never had to work or do anything because they were being provided for, and you know, it's all right, it's all clear.
• 14:26
  There's a really old movie, an amazing movie, okay, based on that HD Wells novel.
• 14:30
  That's what liberal Democrats see as our future, you know, unitary, you know, but basic income.
• 14:37
  You'll never have to do anything.
• 14:39
  Government will provide everything for you.
• 14:40
  They are motivated by ideals, and they never want to look at outcomes and accountability and does it actually work?
• 14:48
  Conservatives, sometimes people feel like they have the wrong ideals or they don't have the right ideals, and yet they are entirely based, I have found, on results and outcomes and data and facts, and what is it actually lead to.
• 15:03
  And I think the Democrats have just lost all sight of that.
• 15:06
  And I'm a lifelong registered Democrat.
• 15:08
  I'm still registered as a Democrat, although I hadn't voted for a Democrat in 10 years, until I had to vote for Cuomo just to try to stop Mom Donnie, which of course it didn't work.
• 15:20
  The whole Mom Donnie phenomena, that people are such suckers to this idea of free when there is no free.
• 15:31
  Somebody's paying somewhere for something.
• 15:34
  And and and Portland is suffering what the effects of that uh of when people finally tired of that.
• 15:43
  I mean, they put in a preschool for all kindergarten tax, so that every kid can go to preschool, paid for only by households that own over 250,000, but you're not allowed to send your kids there.
• 15:55
  I mean, that's just insulting.
• 15:57
  And then they raise so much money, tens of millions of dollars in surplus that they haven't spent because they didn't have the facilities to do and provide preschool for all, but let's bring all the money in first.
• 16:07
  And so it's just this huge surplus, and they only enrolled like 2200 kids at last count.
• 16:13
  The same thing for this climate change fund.
• 16:15
  They pass a special tax because we want to hand out the money to neighborhoods that have been disproportionately hurt by climate change more than other neighborhoods.
• 16:24
  There are no neighborhoods that have been hurt more.
• 16:27
  First of all, climate change isn't hurting anything anywhere.
• 16:30
  And if you really want to worry about it because the seas are gonna rise 10 feet over 100 years, give the money to the rich ocean front homes.
• 16:38
  They're the ones more affected by climate change.
• 16:40
  But no, it's just a slush fund.
• 16:42
  And so that fund brought in tens of millions of more than they've spent.
• 16:47
  And so a new proposal comes up from Dan Lavy, the Republican operative guy I mentioned to you.
• 16:52
  Let's, because in Oregon, you have to just raise like maybe I think it's 42,000 signatures, and you get something on the ballot.
• 16:58
  Let's take 50 million dollars from that big fat climate change fund that's not being used for anything and put it into hiring more cops because we only have cops, 800 of them.
• 17:08
  It's 1993 levels.
• 17:10
  We only have 1.2 per 1,000.
• 17:12
  The national average is more than 2.0.
• 17:14
  Let us raise it from 800 to 1,200 and use that 50 million.
• 17:18
  And do you know the city council opposes it?
• 17:22
  Because that's taking money from climate change for those dirty bad cops.
• 17:27
  Wow.
• 17:27
  And yet, in an October 8th city council meeting, a dozen business owners testified to the city council live.
• 17:34
  I'm watching online on a later uh replay, and they kept begging for more police.
• 17:40
  They talk about break-ins every week, fights in their bars from from these strangers coming in and they're breaking bottles of beer like it's an old western.
• 17:48
  I mean, it's just awful.
• 17:50
  I talked to a lawyer who was assaulted over a year ago.
• 17:53
  She's been a downtown for 20 years.
• 17:55
  She left and never has come back.
• 17:57
  A lot of downtown never has come back.
• 17:59
  The vacancy rates over one third.
• 18:02
  Um, I mean, it's just a mess.
• 18:04
  And yet, just about every person I talked to there, 15 of them two weeks ago, Dr.
• 18:10
  T said, I don't think we're gonna fix it until we hit bottom.
• 18:14
  And I don't think we've hit bottom hard enough yet.
• 18:18
  So it what do you attribute to this fact that the the voters keep voting them in?
• 18:25
  Is I mean liberal insanity.
• 18:27
  Do you know that studies showed decades ago they put some sane people inside an insane asylum because they wanted to see if the psychiatrist would be able to pick them out and say, wait a minute, she shouldn't be here.
• 18:39
  She's not crazy.
• 18:40
  And they found that the doctors were never able to diagnose sanity because all they were used to seeing is insane people.
• 18:49
  Well, I think that the super liberal Democrat Party in Portland may be like that.
• 18:54
  They don't have an opposition party that has any strength at all.
• 18:58
  And so they have no diversity of ideas, and so it's just insane people unable to detect any sane idea because they're all equally crazy, and they all believe the same things.
• 19:10
  And so, my gosh, I don't know how you fix that.
• 19:13
  I think you try to wake them up.
• 19:14
  I think you try to get the rest of the state to rise up.
• 19:17
  And one reason I'm pursuing this book now is because we are seeing those citizens rise up.
• 19:21
  That poll taken for Save Our Cities shows that separation.
• 19:26
  But also right now, there's a group called No Tax Oregon, and another group raising tens of thousands of signatures to signatures to get ballot measures on there, you know, rolling back the governor's new big tax increase for the State Department of Transportation, which ran a budget deficit of hundreds of millions of dollars, has had projects ballooning cost, no accountability, no one getting fired, no one punished.
• 19:51
  Let's just keep raising taxes on the people so that they pay for our mistakes.
• 19:56
  And that's a big complaint there.
• 19:58
  But now that they're gathering this many.
• 20:00
  Many signatures this fast in recent weeks is a sign of how fed up people are.
• 20:04
  And the question is whether politicians will listen.
• 20:07
  Haven't many small small business owners, small business employers, and just regular people who lived in Portland because it was such a great city.
• 20:15
  I've been there years ago when it was this beautiful, nice place to visit.
• 20:19
  Haven't many of them left either to go to the west side of the state or to lead the state completely.
• 20:25
  Yes, absolutely.
• 20:26
  And the big uh uh bellwether there is Intel, which has axed 7,000 jobs in Oregon.
• 20:33
  And Intel helps build the whole tech space of that place.
• 20:36
  And when Intel lays off 7,000, you know, it's suppliers that are nearby are having to lay off people too.
• 20:43
  And so there's a cascading uh effect.
• 20:46
  And yes, so businesses are voting with their feet and they're leaving it.
• 20:49
  Entire report came out, commissioned by uh university agency to do it for for these city guys on how these other states are conducting these raids and how something like 75% of the businesses that were contacted by these other suitors said, Oh, yeah, I I did end up moving there or opening up there instead of expanding here.
• 21:11
  And so yeah, they're voting with their feet.
• 21:13
  This has been known for a long time, and and yet local officials say no, no, that's overstated.
• 21:18
  They insist it's not so.
• 21:20
  They are in a terrible state of denial.
• 21:22
  They're not afraid enough yet.
• 21:24
  What do you think it'll take?
• 21:27
  My book coming out as fast as possible, and being the one that says, Molly, you're in danger, girl.
• 21:33
  Um, and and for the politicians to suddenly feel threatened with losing their jobs.
• 21:40
  And the problem there is that the Republican Party is so weak.
• 21:43
  I've been told by even Republicans there, they haven't put up a real valid candidate, truly great candidate in many years.
• 21:49
  And they're like the Washington Generals who played the Harlem Globe Trotters for thousands of games and were paid to lose every game.
• 22:00
  That's the Republican Party there.
• 22:02
  What really has to happen, I've been told this you need to break the grip, the death grip on the politics there by the unions.
• 22:09
  Three unions.
• 22:10
  Oregon Education Association, the teachers union of affiliated with NEA, the SEIU for government employees, and ASMI for government employees.
• 22:22
  Now, just a week or two ago, a Democrat operator told me he said, Oh, yeah, the union, SEIU, just handed the governor's office the budget, the government budget.
• 22:33
  I think it's six billion a year for next year.
• 22:36
  They came up with a budget, not the governor's staff.
• 22:40
  And the guy said, Oh, the governor's staff, it's filled with union officials from various unions.
• 22:45
  He said, We're not going to fix anything until we stop the unions.
• 22:49
  Because meanwhile, the unions have very rich pensions that are running big deficits that the state raises taxes to cover because the Supreme Court has ruled that you cannot cut some of these obligations.
• 23:00
  You have to pay them, and they're super rich.
• 23:03
  Over 100,000 a year in pensions to people.
• 23:06
  And moreover, the unions are the biggest single contributor to political campaigns.
• 23:12
  And so the only way to change it.
• 23:14
  Another guy told me is you have to find a way to outlaw these union contributions.
• 23:19
  He says many other states have restrictions, but we don't.
• 23:23
  And so the unions control everything, I'm told.
• 23:26
  So is it really the economics that's really taking the state, or is it really this ideological extremism that they are interlinked, aren't they?
• 23:36
  One is causing the other.
• 23:39
  You know, one is causing the other.
• 23:41
  And overall, what they fail to realize.
• 23:43
  And see, I, as a business reporter, okay.
• 23:46
  I went to work for the Wall Street Journal in the 1980s, came to New York and uh, you know, then worked at Forbes as the managing editor, was uh on on the business network.
• 23:54
  And business is the key to growth.
• 23:56
  Business and capitalism and wealth creation, they are the key to that rising tide that can lift all boats.
• 24:04
  People get so upset that Jeff Bezos is worth 250 billion dollars.
• 24:08
  All right, it's more money than anyone should ever be worth.
• 24:11
  But Amazon is worth 2.5 trillion dollars.
• 24:17
  That means Jeff Bezos created $10 of wealth held by other people for every one dollar of wealth that he created for himself, right?
• 24:28
  There are teachers' pension funds that are invested in Amazon stock.
• 24:31
  There's millions of people invested in Amazon stock.
• 24:34
  There's two million people who have jobs with Amazon.
• 24:36
  Look at all the good that did.
• 24:38
  And if the price we have to pay is oh my gosh, he's worth 250 billion, and that upsets us because that's too much.
• 24:44
  I think that's a fine price to pay.
• 24:47
  For real.
• 24:48
  You know, we I've had conversations with several people lately.
• 24:52
  Uh and I listened to the um uh Tucker Carlson interview with Nikki Haley's son, who had just turned 24 years old.
• 25:00
  I don't remember recall his name.
• 25:02
  It was an incredible interview about the the dismal future that the Z Gens see for themselves.
• 25:09
  And I would imagine that in Oregon, it's even worse that there aren't any opportunities there.
• 25:15
  So are they also you losing a brain trust of young people that are exiting the fate the state uh that's that's such a dead on target, insightful observation, and it worries some of the policymakers there a lot because uh people, parents of of college-aged kids are worrying that my my kids are not gonna be able to come home uh here to Oregon.
• 25:37
  They're gonna have to go elsewhere to find a job.
• 25:39
  And and the thing is the least talented, the most mediocre people who make up half of your staff, they can't leave.
• 25:50
  They're not attractive enough to employers.
• 25:53
  So instead, it's your high performers, it's your best performers, it's the one who's the ones who can leave because they are in demand, and so you end up spiraling downward into mediocrity.
• 26:06
  But they're just so euphemistic about the whole thing, you know.
• 26:09
  Um, I mean, this one big task force came out trying to shake the lapels in as polite a language as possible, and then finally it's time for recommendations, but they wouldn't call them recommendations.
• 26:20
  They really said, Well, we're gonna lay out options, and they gingerly come out with different because they don't want to offend anybody.
• 26:26
  Another person told me this the business community should rise up, but they're wimps.
• 26:30
  Another one said they have they they are so eager to be at the table and they don't even realize they're on the menu that they sacrifice that they offer acquiescence for access.
• 26:40
  And so they don't stand up and say, You're killing us.
• 26:43
  Just the other day, the CEO billionaire, one of only three in all of Oregon, uh, of Columbia Sportswear, which has moved some big operations out of Portland because of its problems, and he came out at some conference and really kind of gave them the riot act, really read of the riot act and warned them that they're chasing business away.
• 27:02
  Rarely, though, do businesses speak up like that.
• 27:05
  They're very afraid.
• 27:06
  That's what I'm told.
• 27:07
  They're just so afraid.
• 27:08
  Wow.
• 27:09
  Well, hold that thought right there, Dennis, because this is a really good place to take a break.
• 27:14
  We're going to take a short break to hear from our sponsors for America Outloud.news.
• 27:19
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  There's much more to come about this great discussion about the state of Oregon.
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• 33:01
  Well, welcome back, everyone.
• 33:02
  Today we're talking to Dennis Neal.
• 33:04
  And in case you missed the first part of our show, let me tell you a bit more about our guest Dennis Neal.
• 33:09
  He's an award-winning journalist, media strategist, advisor to senior executives, and host of the What's Bugging Me podcast on the Ricochet Network.
• 33:18
  Dennis was an anchor at CNBC and Fox Business Network.
• 33:23
  He previously served as managing editor for the Wall Street Journal and Forbes.
• 33:27
  Currently, he's he is working on his new book, upcoming book, doing boots on the ground investigative journalism work.
• 33:34
  And his new book will be called the Ori Goners, L-E-R, I'm sorry, O R E G-O-N-E-R-S, Ori Goners.
• 33:44
  Dennis, this has been a great conversation so far.
• 33:47
  You know, public safety is a major concern in all of our major cities across America these days.
• 33:53
  How much is this economic damage tied uh to crime, policing changes, policy changes, and accountability gaps in the state of Portland?
• 34:02
  And what about for the rest of the state in Oregon?
• 34:05
  Yeah, there is a big problem there with policing.
• 34:09
  And I think it owes a lot to 2,000 Black Lives Matter protests, you know, and defund the police, which they did.
• 34:15
  They cut something like 25 million dollars from the city police budget right at the very worst time when they had the highest crime and shattered windows and ridiculous protests, and literally over a hundred nights of violent protests every single night.
• 34:30
  I think it was something like 120 nights in a row downtown.
• 34:34
  It still hasn't recovered at all.
• 34:38
  And you know, uh Portland today has 800 cops.
• 34:42
  That's what it was in 1993, as we were discussing.
• 34:45
  There's a proposal they want to raise, you know, 40,000 signatures something, I think, and get it on the ballot for Portland to increase that to 1200 by spending 50 million dollars taking it from there's a 1.2 billion dollar surplus sitting there in three new taxes for preschool, climate change, and the third thing that I just meant uh mentioned that I've just now forgotten.
• 35:07
  And um, and and so they just want to take 50 million from that and hire more cops because that's what business owners are begging for.
• 35:14
  I mean, I talked to a woman, she was a assaulted broad daylight by a homeless vagrant drug user.
• 35:20
  Um, someone else told me that you know she screamed for the police and and some county sheriff's deputies who have been assigned to help offset the shortage of cops in the city, run from around a corner and save her.
• 35:32
  And had they not, the assault would have gotten much, much worse.
• 35:36
  Well, this woman practiced law downtown for 20 years.
• 35:40
  She's never gone back to her office building.
• 35:42
  She moved out, she moved into a suburb and uh stayed free at a uh at the at the building of a friend.
• 35:49
  Well, how could he give her free space?
• 35:51
  Because he has left and moved to Arizona because he couldn't take it anymore from Oregon.
• 35:57
  Um, and then when the big Trump fight happened, you know, that's when I further became interested in this story.
• 36:04
  Trump says, Wow, this isn't in late uh September.
• 36:08
  Wow, there's been a hundred nights of siege at ice offices at night by a couple dozen of these Antifa guys.
• 36:14
  How about we send in uh 200 troops?
• 36:16
  The governor comes out against it, the mayor comes out against it, all six congressmen, the two U.S.
• 36:22
  senators, everyone is against bringing in help because it's Trump.
• 36:27
  And they hate Trump.
• 36:28
  They and so they're insisting it's just one square block.
• 36:32
  And yet, Chris and yet Chris uh Kristen Ole, it's Amy Nichols, Kristen Olsen, the uh lawyer who was assaulted, said it's not one square block.
• 36:41
  It's every neighborhood in the city.
• 36:43
  The the uh is it called the Pearl District is the one of the toniest neighborhoods of the city, and it has street crime.
• 36:49
  And then, you know, Bend has a uh a problem.
• 36:52
  Look, and the thing is these three problems are interrelated.
• 36:55
  No, four homelessness, fed by drug addiction and mental uh illness, and then involving crime to cover the homelessness, feed the drug addiction, and because they're crazy.
• 37:08
  The four are interlocked.
• 37:10
  But do you know that when in 2020 or 2021, Portland Metro area, Tri-County area was setting a big, big crisis response to all of this.
• 37:22
  They get in there to argue, and the food people.
• 37:26
  No, no, the homeless people say, we want to run our own program.
• 37:30
  We don't want to work with the drug addiction people because we don't want to cast dispersions on the homeless as being a drug to drug addicted.
• 37:38
  Well, this homeless expert Kevin Dogan says it's 90% are drug addicted.
• 37:42
  But in BIND, which has a terrible homeless problem, the local officials insist that it's below 4% drug addiction problem among the homeless, which is just a big fat lie.
• 37:52
  Or you high yourselves.
• 37:54
  But it's because it's because the homeless are victims of capitalism.
• 37:58
  We don't want to hurt their feelings by saying they're drug addicted.
• 38:01
  And you know what?
• 38:03
  I I had three different sources.
• 38:04
  You know, when you're a reporter and you're talking to people and three different guys in three different places will say the same thing.
• 38:11
  It resonates, and you found a truth.
• 38:13
  And I have three different sources.
• 38:14
  A woman, two different guys say, it's good parent, bad parent, okay?
• 38:19
  I mean, the the the bad kid's always going to go to the lenient parent.
• 38:23
  The county gives out tents and tarps.
• 38:25
  You know, city crews try to sweep sweep it up.
• 38:27
  And you know, if you don't spank a child, they're gonna grow up utterly with impunity with no discipline at all, and that's what we've done to the homeless community.
• 38:36
  They mean well, but they are keeping them homeless.
• 38:40
  Yeah, intentionally, because of the additional funding and things that they get for that.
• 38:44
  You know, I like I said, I I've had I have friends that have lived in in in Oregon and various places in Oregon.
• 38:51
  And actually, my my husband was from uh Medford, Oregon.
• 38:55
  And so, you know, there was you know, a lot of I've been in that state a lot.
• 38:59
  It's a beautiful state.
• 39:01
  And there's this movement called the Greater Idaho movement.
• 39:04
  Yes, to secede.
• 39:06
  And because you know what?
• 39:08
  The the southern part of the state, the rural part of the state, the timberland of the state is so neglected and so mistreated and left behind.
• 39:16
  And what they did to those people down there has just been horrifying.
• 39:20
  I mean, Oregon, you know, timber was the industry that founded that state.
• 39:24
  And it was one of the biggest producers in the world after the ridiculous endangered species act came into effect in 1990.
• 39:33
  It reduced the lumber produced by all of that land by 90%.
• 39:38
  It took 25 million acres off limits, and you're not even allowed to kind of prune it out to stop it from having fires, which means we have far more fires, and studies show that people are moving away because of the smoke from all of the fires that are set by the policies that won't allow us to trim that stuff out of there.
• 39:55
  And we became a net U.S.
• 39:57
  importer of lumber from other countries.
• 40:00
  Because we were stopping these guys from you know doing taking down the temper.
• 40:04
  And why?
• 40:05
  Because we wanted to save a stupid bird, the spotted owl.
• 40:10
  There were 14,000 spotted owls in Oregon in 1990 when this began today, after devastating the industry, after the closure of hundreds of mills, after laying off thousands of people who were not highly educated but earned a really great pay, and they worked really hard and they were helping build America literally today.
• 40:32
  There's 2500 spotted owls.
• 40:37
  So we did all of this to save, you know, so that the population go from 14,000 down to 2500.
• 40:44
  How about we just let that sucker die?
• 40:47
  That was one of the stupidest policy bundles.
• 40:50
  And the state, instead of pushing back, said, hold my beer, and did even more regulation and did even more intrusions and meddling.
• 41:00
  And it did the same thing with let's save our seas in the oceans.
• 41:04
  And so it killed the fishing industry.
• 41:06
  And it's doing the same thing to agriculture.
• 41:08
  And my gosh, when will they wake up?
• 41:11
  You know, isn't the greater Idaho movement that the Western side of the state wants to join into Idaho?
• 41:17
  Yes.
• 41:17
  No, it's impossible.
• 41:19
  And they're being rhetorical.
• 41:20
  I'm going to reach out to the leader because it's utterly impossible to do through.
• 41:25
  I mean, it just will never happen.
• 41:27
  And yet it just shows you how totally fed up they are down there.
• 41:32
  The state is at war with itself, which is part of what my book's going to be getting into.
• 41:35
  I want to spend a lot of time down there and kind of retell that story of how stupid policy just devastated people's lives.
• 41:44
  Yeah, very much so.
• 41:45
  And it's um it's not going to get any better until they hit rock bottom.
• 41:50
  And I know that you're really going to explain it.
• 41:52
  But don't we see a similar pattern of what's happening in Portland in like Los Angeles and Chicago and Baltimore and New York and Newark, New Jersey.
• 42:03
  Yes, especially blue liberal states.
• 42:06
  And you really you really feel that Portland is the bellwether of what might be happening in those other cities, correct?
• 42:11
  Yeah.
• 42:12
  Yeah, Carrot Canary and a coal mine, it's gone way too far.
• 42:16
  And they're not even pushing back yet.
• 42:17
  Except now the people are, not their leaders, but the people are.
• 42:21
  But it's it's widely expected that Tina Kotec, the newly elected governor in 2022, will win re-election in 2026.
• 42:32
  Um they don't have a good Republican bench of candidates.
• 42:35
  Um, and uh I just can't even believe that someone who is doing that badly in the job is uh is secured of re-election.
• 42:46
  And Kevin Looper, that Democrat strategist, who's kind of a self-promoter, other people say he's got this big booming voice and this bear of a bearish uh beard, and and uh he takes a lot of credit for helping the state Democrat Party build a supermajority to where they could just pass anything.
• 43:05
  And he said, only in the past year or two has he realized.
• 43:09
  Shoot, when you no longer have a loyal or even disloyal opposition to push back, you end up with no diversity of views at all.
• 43:20
  And you end up just doing the same thing over and over again, even if it doesn't work, and that he feels like he's responsible for helping produce that.
• 43:30
  So when do you think that your book's gonna be out?
• 43:34
  Well, one thing is when will I finish writing it?
• 43:37
  And I'm gonna finish writing it when in a matter of months, because you know what?
• 43:40
  It's like planning a wedding.
• 43:42
  It will take as long as you give it.
• 43:44
  So just instead set a deadline and get it done.
• 43:48
  But then the book industry, the publishing industry.
• 43:50
  Oh my gosh.
• 43:51
  I don't think I've seen any other industry, Dr.
• 43:54
  T, um, that is been disintermediated and disrupted less by the internet.
• 44:01
  They're not afraid of uh scared enough either.
• 44:03
  You give them that book, and they can take nine months, okay?
• 44:06
  And they're going after you with little copy title, little copy editing errors.
• 44:10
  You know, we have a we have a what is that called?
• 44:14
  The the kind of comma it is, that third one out there.
• 44:16
  It's a like the something comma.
• 44:18
  Do you use it or not?
• 44:19
  It would it's a it's a it's a well-known thing, but I can't remember the name for it.
• 44:22
  Anyway, they're asking about little things like that.
• 44:24
  You know what?
• 44:24
  Who cares?
• 44:25
  Just get it out the door, let's go.
• 44:27
  But they have to incentivize the sales force.
• 44:30
  I might my most recent book, The Leadership Genius of Elon Musk, which Sherry makes a fantastic uh Christmas gift.
• 44:37
  It offers 11 lessons from Elon.
• 44:40
  Borrow lessons from Elon to live a better life and a bigger career.
• 44:44
  Um, you know, they didn't the whole Salesforce didn't do a whole lot to promote that book anyway, you know, for Harper Collins.
• 44:51
  So I was having to promote it like crazy.
• 44:54
  So it could be, you know, months more before that gets out.
• 44:58
  But but this is happening now.
• 45:00
  And I'm writing like crazy.
• 45:01
  I have an op-end in the Wall Street Journal that's about to run.
• 45:04
  They've accepted it, which is hard because they turned down 95% of the stuff I send them.
• 45:09
  So the answer to that is you just keep sending them more.
• 45:12
  Yeah, for sure.
• 45:13
  You know, we started our conversation.
• 45:15
  Um, even I think before we went we went live with the interview, you talked about how many years you'd been into the the newscasting industry and how it doesn't look anything like what it used to look like.
• 45:26
  Talk about that for a few minutes.
• 45:28
  All right.
• 45:28
  So so what I meant to say was that you know, I've been a journalist since the 1980s, all right?
• 45:33
  And I worked straight through up to 2014, February, when with 15 minutes notice as an anchor at Fox Business.
• 45:41
  I was called into the office of the president.
• 45:43
  There was someone there from human resources, and I made a joke.
• 45:47
  I said, Oh, HR is here.
• 45:49
  This must not be good.
• 45:50
  And they said, Yeah, today's your last day at the network.
• 45:54
  We'll give you 15 minutes, pick up your coat, a few things, we'll ship the rest of your office to you.
• 45:59
  I'm gonna have a security guard escort you out, Dennis.
• 46:02
  But don't worry, he'll stay a good 20 feet back.
• 46:04
  No one will know.
• 46:05
  I was stunned.
• 46:06
  I walked out into the hallway.
• 46:09
  I started looking at friends and saying, I've just been fired.
• 46:12
  So it didn't help that the security guard was saying 20 or 30 feet back.
• 46:16
  They needed to cut the budget, and uh, they don't give you you know time to be on air griping about it.
• 46:21
  They just cut you out that day, boom, and you're gone.
• 46:25
  Well, I waited for the offers to come in because damn, I was good at television.
• 46:29
  I loved it.
• 46:30
  You bear you've you've rarely seen anyone who enjoyed being on TV more than me right here.
• 46:36
  And uh yet no offers came in.
• 46:39
  And so what do you do?
• 46:41
  I had to remake myself as uh a crisis manager.
• 46:46
  You know, I joined Citric and Company, that was a big crisis firm for a year or two helped him write a book.
• 46:50
  And so I just went on my own.
• 46:51
  But that's when I got that outside view of the media.
• 46:54
  And I was shocked in recent years, and it's all because of Trump, he broke them.
• 46:58
  I don't recognize them anymore for how liberal they are, for how biased they are, for how they leave out the other side.
• 47:04
  My God, the Twitter file scandal came out thanks to Elon Musk.
• 47:08
  We learned that dozens of government agencies, including the CIA, the FBI, the State Department under Democrat administration, were pressuring social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook, to censor the voices of thousands of conservatives that millions of Americans had to write to here.
• 47:27
  It is the biggest rampant violation of the government uh of our first rights in history.
• 47:34
  And I did more stories and columns on it and on my podcast, What's Bugging Me, than the entire staff of the New York Times and the Washington Post combined?
• 47:45
  They didn't cover it, they didn't go into it because they didn't care, because it was conservative voices being silenced.
• 47:52
  But you know what, guys?
• 47:53
  Next time it's gonna be yours.
• 47:55
  Because under Trump's first term, he asked for 5,500 liberal accounts to be silenced, his people did.
• 48:02
  That's what government does and what government will do.
• 48:04
  But the media didn't care because Trump bad.
• 48:07
  They've totally lost it, and shame on them.
• 48:11
  They are shameless shills, they should be watchdogs, and they instead are lap dogs for the Democrat Party.
• 48:17
  And and I am embarrassed to say it about them because I love reporters.
• 48:21
  I love journalists, and uh, and I miss them because they've turned into mere acolytes of the Democrat Party, a lot of them.
• 48:34
  Is there any way to get that back?
• 48:36
  I mean, is there any can we start a new newspaper or a new news site or something like that that brings back, you know, we always talked about, I mean, constitutionally, the press was supposed to be the fourth arm of our of our government.
• 48:49
  It's supposed to like be the balance of both sides and to put people out there and make people think.
• 48:55
  And it and I agree with you totally, it's just non-existent anymore.
• 48:58
  Is there a possibility of pulling it back from the cliff?
• 49:02
  Well, of course, they're trying that now at CBS News with Barry Weiss, right?
• 49:07
  Who turned a fire turned a resignation for the New York Times into the best career move I have ever seen.
• 49:13
  My gosh, why was I not able to jujitsu like that and turn my firing from Fox into some type of great new soapbox?
• 49:20
  But she will get very little done at CBS News as an outsider.
• 49:24
  Uh I mean, they're already opposing her like crazy, I'm sure.
• 49:27
  I know that.
• 49:28
  I went into Forbes as an outsider.
• 49:30
  One third of the staff wants to stab you and stop you.
• 49:33
  Another third of the staff is totally all the way in because they were on the outs before you got there, but then the middle is not sure which way they're gonna go.
• 49:41
  And that's the ones you have to go after as an outsider.
• 49:44
  So I don't think Barry's gonna be able to do that.
• 49:46
  I think that the market is part of what's making this happen, in that if there were a nice big audience waiting and dying for well, on one hand, the left says this, but the right says this, it would be there.
• 50:00
  There would be people serving that need, but but it's been divided.
• 50:03
  The people have gone that way.
• 50:05
  And then the other thing that's really hurt it is being able to track every single read, every single hit.
• 50:12
  We used to put out the stuff that we thought was most important, and we'll do everything we can to get you to read it.
• 50:18
  A strip tease at the top of the story to get you to read it.
• 50:21
  But now, oh, we have clicks.
• 50:23
  We know that we were wrong about that.
• 50:25
  So we're only going to give you this.
• 50:27
  And that means you just keep self-reinforcing stuff instead of provocative outside stuff that shakes things up.
• 50:33
  And but but the mainstream media are the ones to blame most of all.
• 50:36
  The conservative media at least, you know, do some duty toward pitched debate.
• 50:43
  And they're a much smaller subset.
• 50:45
  But the liberal mainstream media are the biggest problem.
• 50:48
  And I don't know what's going to fix it unless they hire me to give them some good advice.
• 50:53
  Well, maybe they should do that.
• 50:54
  But so in the meantime, tell us a little bit about your podcast.
• 50:58
  So I love my podcast, What's Bugging Me.
• 51:01
  I had a segment at Fox Business twice a week.
• 51:04
  They only gave me 60 seconds.
• 51:05
  And it was called What's Bugging Me.
• 51:07
  And they run this big screenshot of me with my glasses shattering and my face kind of fuming and smoke coming out of my ears.
• 51:13
  And I just really liked that because when you're on television, it's all about you.
• 51:18
  And uh I really loved that.
• 51:20
  So when I left with 15 minutes notice, I later had my lawyer or my agents negotiate that I could take that trademark name, What's Bugging Me, take it with me.
• 51:31
  And it took a while because I kept waiting for a better gig to show up from media that never showed up.
• 51:36
  I am on newsmax three times a week, I'm happy to say.
• 51:39
  I love that network.
• 51:40
  They're really good to be.
• 51:40
  I'm on every Sunday at 8:40 in the morning, every Saturday at 11:30.
• 51:46
  I'm on uh wise guys, the Saturday, nine o'clock show on uh uh a lot of weeks, happily.
• 51:51
  Uh, I love that place.
• 51:53
  And uh, but the podcast is where you really get a chance because the news doesn't have any time to delve into anything.
• 51:59
  So you bring on an interviewer, a guest, and you talk to them for 20 or 30 minutes, and it's just wonderful.
• 52:06
  And you let them do most of the talking, which is hard for me, um, as you might have gathered from this interview.
• 52:11
  Uh uh, but but it's really it's really good.
• 52:14
  And as as negative as the title is, what's bugging me?
• 52:17
  The fact is I have a very positive outlook.
• 52:20
  And I've got a parting shot at the end where I'm giving all kinds of kind of here's a study on optimism.
• 52:25
  Here's a new study showing that when you express gratitude, feel gratitude, it helps your the cells of your body uh get healthier, helps your mental state.
• 52:32
  When you tell someone else about your gratefulness, it helps you and it helps them.
• 52:36
  When you tell someone else about your gratefulness in front of a third person, it even helps them.
• 52:41
  This is scientific research.
• 52:42
  I mean, that's amazing.
• 52:43
  And yet we spend so much of our time griping about what's missing, about what we don't have, about what's going wrong.
• 52:52
  And when you're a journalist for 40 years, I woke up every day looking at the world through the lens of what's wrong with this picture, who's angry about it, who's getting ripped off because conflict, drama, struggle are what drive great stories.
• 53:07
  That's how we get you to read them.
• 53:09
  Okay.
• 53:09
  The problem is that for the rest of my life and all the other times when I'm not working, I'm still looking through life for that negative lens.
• 53:16
  But then boom, it changed my life after leaving Fox.
• 53:19
  And I started looking for the upside, and it's made my life so much better and richer and happier and more rewarding.
• 53:27
  Now, maybe that's just a placebo effect.
• 53:30
  Maybe my life really isn't better.
• 53:32
  But the thing is, if I think it's better, it is.
• 53:38
  And while the FDA approves some cancer drugs that only work in seven percent of patients, that's literally a true stat.
• 53:45
  The placebo effect works in up to like 35% of patients in some study.
• 53:50
  And so why not give them the placebo then?
• 53:54
  They think it's working, and so it is.
• 53:57
  So, Dennis, this has been just an incredible conversation, and we're gonna reschedule you to come back on to talk about your book about Elon Musk and his leader.
• 54:05
  I love it.
• 54:06
  But in the last couple of minutes that we have here together today, tell us what you're hoping to accomplish with this book, Ori Goners, when it comes.
• 54:16
  This is a wake-up call for for Oregon for the business community, especially in Oregon to wake up and stand up and make yourself hurt and start fighting back and stop giving in to this.
• 54:27
  You have Stockholm syndrome.
• 54:29
  Wake up because it's up to business, it's up to growth to save this state from itself.
• 54:34
  The people that the leaders mean well, but they're blowing it.
• 54:38
  I want to start there and I want to wake them up, but then I want to wake up other communities in liberal one-party cities that are going to go down the same destructive path and are already headed down that path.
• 54:50
  And I want to, I want them to say, huh, maybe we ought to do something about this before we turn into that.
• 54:56
  Fingers crossed.
• 54:58
  Absolutely, fingers crossed because America needs it.
• 55:01
  America needs really needs this.
• 55:03
  And all the people that are still living there that really they know something's wrong and they don't know what to do about it.
• 55:10
  I'm sure your book is gonna help them like really understand how bad it is to make a difference.
• 55:15
  So, Dennis Keel, I want to thank you so much for being with us here today.
• 55:19
  This has been a great interview, great conversation.
• 55:22
  I look forward to having you back again.
• 55:24
  So, with that, I want to close with one of my favorite verses from the Bible.
• 55:27
  I close every one of my podcasts with, whether it's live or pre-recorded, which is Romans 12, 12.
• 55:32
  Rejoice in hope, be patient in trouble and be persistent in prayer.
• 55:37
  Because remember to lean into God, He will never let you down.
• 55:40
  So we'll see you again next time.
• 55:44
  Maybe on Monday, uh, 3 p.m.
• 55:46
  Eastern time, right here at AmericaOut Loud.news and iHeartRadio.
• 55:49
  We do this Monday through Friday at 3 p.m.
• 55:51
  Eastern.
• 55:52
  You can also listen anywhere in the world using America Outloud's Media Player.
• 55:56
  Um, you can also find on them on your favorite podcast platforms that you can go back and listen to some of the other really terrific conversations that we've been having on this show.
• 56:06
  You can find out more about me by going to dr10penny.com, where you can find my book, Zero Accountability in a Failed System, How Big Pharma has Weaponized Public Health Vaccines and the Law.
• 56:19
  And so it's a really good book that you can uh really dig your teeth into that one too.
• 56:24
  And please sign up for my substack, my Saturday substack is I on the evidence, where I talk about topical uh cus uh topical related things and health-related concepts.
• 56:34
  And my Sunday substack is my give back substack.
• 56:37
  It's 10 PennywalkwithGod dot substack.com.
• 56:41
  They're both free.
• 56:42
  I don't believe in paywalls.
• 56:43
  If I'm gonna spend the time writing it, I want you to read it.
• 56:46
  So please sign up for it and help us to share and get the get the word out, get the news out.
• 56:51
  It will help us grow.
• 56:52
  And I think you'll really like it once you subscribe up to them.
• 56:55
  So with that, I want to thank everybody for being here today.
• 56:58
  Dennis, thank you again for being with us and everyone have a great rest of your day.
• 57:02
  We'll see you the next time.
• 57:04
  Bye bye.
• 57:05
  God bless.