Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / The Weekend That Decides #1 in World Rugby?

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The Weekend That Decides #1 in World Rugby? · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

• 0:00
  I think the biggest risk is do you play Ruben Love at 10 from the start against France? Victor, what do you want to see from the Springboks? I'm nervous this weekend. I don't know why. I think the expectations are so high of the Springbok team. But the big thing for me is I see there's a lot of talking about England that they've got the strongest scrum in world rugby.
• 0:23
  I think these are a nice little challenge for the South African pack. But I think the New Zealand public will be a little less harsh if we didn't actually get a win in these first few test matches. Joke, talking about not winning in New Zealand. Oh my God, get off the show, would you? Can you two Muppets just relax and let me finish? Yes.
• 0:48
  Welcome to Rugby Rivals. And there's test matches on this weekend. Who knew? Bring it on. So finally, everyone is warming up for the Rivals Tour. That's what I've got it down to. You know, when you can warm up against England to get yourself ready for this new look, all-black side, Victor, that's got to be exciting, man.
• 1:10
  Yeah, I'm not caring about, I'm not worrying about you guys yet. We've got two, three very tough test matches ahead. I think we need to focus on them. I was actually, I think we're talking too much about the rivals and we're not focusing on what's coming and I think it's going to be tough test matches. You guys are getting probably a B side against, against France, not getting their A side again. I don't know why you're so lucky every time.
• 1:39
  But we will be up against a very motivated England. I think Borswijk probably under pressure, so he's going to throw everything at it. So I think it's going to be a pretty tough game for the box. There's a big name missing from that England side, though. Yeah, it's interesting what's happening. Why is he toging? Is he rested? Is there...
• 2:01
  Is it the lack of form? I don't know. No, I think he's rested. He's rested. Well, that was the official one. Oh, they felt – well, the article that I read, Victor, and I mean I've got no – I haven't spoken to anyone over there. So it was, yeah, they just feel that he's just been playing consistently, you know, with the Lions, Captain, Six Nations, his club, and they just felt it was best to give him a rest.
• 2:29
  at this stage, which I think it's a good thing if it's true. You've done it, haven't you, Vicky? Players don't like it, do they, mate? They hate it. You don't want to rest. I never rest it. I was upset when they rested me for the box. I wanted to play every game.
• 2:44
  I spoke to a player about it once, Ricardo. Sorry for jumping in. And I reckon, why don't they just let us take the training week off and we'll just play Saturday? That's what I said. Exactly that. I said, rather let me not train in the week, I'll pitch up on a Thursday, just do a little captain's run, just go through what we need to do in the boardroom, and let's play. That's why we're doing it. We're loving to get out there in front of the fans and show what we can do.
• 3:14
  I mean, a game against South Africa, is that one you're rested for? I mean, there's, you know, it just doesn't seem to be, you know, like the word test match to be an ultimate test of two nations going head to head. Shouldn't it be the best players?
• 3:30
  Well, that's, Ricardo, that is exactly what we've been talking about and exactly what Victor's talking about with France. So what World Rugby has tried to do is create this new competition where you get points, and I presume there'll be money at the end of it, right? So every summer, the French send down their second side, which is frustrating.
• 3:51
  And it's a bit like November for us. We never do it in November. We always send our best sides. But the Northern Hemisphere, you know, and the French will not change for anyone. I mean, they've got 48 games. The final was yesterday, right? The day before, whenever it was. So the French have 48 domestic games, and they don't rest. Like, the president's over there because it's... Well, I mean, I'm presuming... I've never played there, Victor. You've played there. But I'm presuming the president's going to... I'm paying you. You're not resting on my time, so you can rest on the national time. No, you're not.
• 4:20
  So what's happening? Have they arrived in France? Because I see all the Toulouse players are in the squad, but did they send the whole squad or was there just certain players arriving later? All the guys that played in the final are coming down, but they're not going to play the All Blacks. They're resting until they play Australia.
• 4:39
  the DuPont and Cote, are going to play Australia, but not the All Blacks. And their argument is that they've got enough good players to put out a top-quality team, that they don't need those goals in the final. And I don't disagree with that. I do not disagree with that. They proved it last time. Yeah, but it won't be exactly. I mean, if you add all those to lose players, it's just a different team. Yes, they will be competitive. And I mean, Bordeaux has been outstanding,
• 5:09
  But, I mean, they've got a lot of foreign players in that team as well. So, I mean, it will be a quality team, but it's just not the same without the Toulouse players. They're probably about four or five at least from the Toulouse guys in the starting 15th. Okay. If you both took both players, if you'd played a final on Saturday or Sunday, then jumped on the plane, could you play a test match the following weekend? Yes.
• 5:37
  Yeah, of course you could. It's just the difference between what the quality of your performance will be. You know, I think a lot of the time… It depends on the celebrations, I think. Yeah, so we know you can't, Victor. I can. I mean, that's my recovery. My celebrations, my recovery as well. So I'm not sold like Jacob, ice bars and all these things.
• 6:04
  Just be ready. Victor's ice bath is 10 cubes in his Clipper with bloody coke, mate. That's his recovery from the inside out. I think just aside, I think that France…
• 6:23
  you know, got it wrong last World Cup because they didn't replace DuPont in that game against you guys. Um, and I think the last few years actually sending their second side down to New Zealand, I've done it before and got pumped now.
• 6:41
  I think the depth of players in this French system is huge, which just is going to help them for the next World Cup. So I still don't think they care about this new tournament or care about playing their second side. What they do care about is building a 35-man squad where you can take people off or get injuries and then still win. So I think they're in an amazing phase for next year's World Cup.
• 7:09
  So I'm going to ask you about this. You know the French and the Italian side keep it better. What do you think about the French team letting go all the foreign coaches? I mean, Fluxier, Solier is not there. Edwards is not there anymore. That's interesting. Yeah, I thought that was really interesting. I think Edwards would be one of the best guys you could sign. Absolutely amazing. Did amazing with Wales.
• 7:38
  you know, him done amazing with the French side. Like, I think he's one of the most, one of the best. I think the French sometimes, you know, the presidents make these rules to try and grow French rugby. You know, they want to be a little bit like, they don't want to be like the English soccer premiership where, you know, England go to the World Cups, although it's not over yet, and they don't win because most of the attackers are foreigners and most of the coaches are foreigners.
• 8:06
  So sometimes the French president makes those types of rules. I thought it was really, really interesting of Gautier, though, to let those guys, world-class guys, go this far out. I don't understand it. So we've got test matches this weekend. Victor, what do you want to see from the Springboks? Yeah, I'm nervous this weekend. I don't know why. I mean, we've had the one Barbarian game.
• 8:33
  hasn't really been tested. I mean, our guys come from all over the world, get together. So yeah, it's the first game of the season. I think the expectations are so high of the Springbok team. We're probably starting to feel what you guys feel like in New Zealand, where everyone expects you to win every game.
• 8:55
  Yeah, I think firstly, it will be interesting to see Israsi going with the old guard, same players. Was there going to be quite a few new faces in there? Starting, who's going to start at 10? Will it be Marnie? Will he go back to 100 with Sasha being injured?
• 9:12
  But the big thing for me is I see there's a lot of talking about England that they've got the strongest scrum in world rugby. So I think there's a nice little challenge for the South African pack. I'm looking forward to see guys like Thomas DeToy and these boys back and Ox together with Malcolm, Mark, everyone back together.
• 9:36
  But yeah, I think it's the first outing. The first thing, I see Rossi said it as well, he just want to win. He doesn't care about the points and bonus points. He needs to go out and win. So yeah, it will be interesting to see what Rossi does. Firstly, always with the team. And will he announce it today on a Monday? Will he announce it on Friday?
• 9:57
  And then from there, yeah, what style? What are we going to see? Is there something new coming out? Will we be more expansive? Will we go back to the kicking game? All to wait for and see what Rusty thinks. I can't believe that they're talking up their scrum before they come to South Africa. That's like bad PR. That's very interesting. I see Rusty's been very complimentary of Pollock this whole week.
• 10:27
  But I think the players want to get stuck into that little guy. Yeah, I think the whole of South Africa is looking forward to getting stuck into Pollock. Yeah, no, for sure. I think he's great. I'm a real fan of having superstars. I really like that someone like Rossi is talking about him and he's probably talking about him because he wants him to be picked. I think he's a better impact player just because I think
• 10:55
  He's better off the bench and he can play out wide like he did against the All Blacks last November. But I just love that he's a superstar and doesn't give a shit and annoys people. I think it's really cool. It's what we need in our game, you know. Typical wingers approach. Typical. Yeah. What about you, JK? What do you expect to see? What do you want to see from the All Blacks? You know, first game under Dave Rennie. What do you need to see from them?
• 11:21
  I need to see some form taken into, super rugby form taken into consideration for the first test. You know, I've said this before, we know how good Bowdoin is, we know how good Damien is. I think we have to play love at 10 and just chuck him into the fire. I think this is the biggest risk for Dave Rennie as well. I'm first time all black coach.
• 11:49
  You know, I think it also happened to Razor. You know, you want to make changes, but you need to win. But I think the New Zealand public will be a little less, you know, a little less harsh if we didn't actually get a win in these first few test matches because we need to sort out the World Cup. Talking about not winning in New Zealand. Oh, my God. Get off the show, would you?
• 12:12
  Can you just relax? Can you two Muppets just relax and let me finish, right? New Zealand, not running in New Zealand. Will the fans be happy with that? I'm not saying we want to lose. I'm saying the New Zealand public would be way more accepting if Dave Rennie takes a few risks, right?
• 12:38
  The other thing I want him to see in the first test is to play some combination, right? So I think if you're going to play Love, you've got to play Geordie at 12 and you've got to play Roy Gutter at 9, right? Just to keep him really comfortable. He's played with them all year.
• 12:52
  So I think we have 12 to 15 months now to the World Cup. We have a new coaching staff, and very, very quickly we have to understand what our best 24 is, 23 is. So that's what I'm hoping this week. I'm hoping that Dave Rennie takes a big, deep breath and go, I'm going to start some guys. What are we going to do in the loose forward? We know Artie's going to play. Where's he going to play? Is he going to play eighth? What are we going to do?
• 13:21
  With the other two, is it going to be, you know, we're going to play a couple of dynamic guys? And then, you know, who do we play as the worker? You know, Papali'i's gone, Kane's gone. So who's going to be that get into the thick stuff, you know, get into that dirty work, right? Because we can't have too many ball players. So I think this first selection will be a real reflection on how much risk...
• 13:48
  how much risk Dave Rene and Sir Graeme Henry are going to take. So settle down, you idiots. Settle down, the both of you. I didn't say we want to lose. I'd say the New Zealand public will be a little bit more forgiving. You said you'll be happy to lose if you take risks. That's what you said.
• 14:07
  No, I'm never happy to lose. I said we'd be more, well, what I meant to say, if I did say that, Victor, is we'd be more understanding, right? Because I think we've got to take some selection risks. I would put definitely, I'd definitely put Bowdoin on the bench, though, because Bowdoin's been known to come on and pull a rabbit out of it. J.K., it's just the mindset again. I mean, if the other players are the best players on four, they should do better when they get opportunity. So why are you scared?
• 14:36
  I'm scared because I don't think super... If they form these players, then you should beat them more because they're the form players at the moment. Because I don't... The reason I'm scared... You're totally right, Victor, and I hate saying that publicly, but you're right. But I think what I'm worried about is, is super rugby now, although I do think the last few weeks of the competition were very good, is super rugby now a small notch under a test match or a big notch?
• 15:02
  I also think that when we talk about taking risks at 10, I don't think 10s just settle into running a test match that quickly anymore just because it's so complicated. So they are the two reasons why I'm a little bit hesitant. Is super rugby now of the level where it's not a big step up? And second, when you're looking to blood a new 10, it's also pretty complicated.
• 15:28
  Can I just say that you... I say we're getting South African players out of the Japanese league. Do you think that's close to test match rugby? Yeah, I think it's a valid point, Victor. I think the point is you'd need to make a combination of experienced players, right, and then scatter those younger guys in. But when you're talking about a 10...
• 15:53
  And when you're talking about a loose forward combination, it takes a bit of time. I mean, Scott Barrett's not there, and I noticed his rehab's going pretty good. So we've actually got a few big decisions to make. What I find interesting is that, you know, you're both two pretty confident gentlemen, in fact, you know.
• 16:15
  Let's throw the word arrogant around there. But as a compliment, of course, I've never heard both of you going into test matches, uneasy, scared, worried. That's not like you, either of you. I'm actually a very humble guy, Ricardo. I'm just very proud of the double champion springbok team at the moment. It's not about myself. It's about the team doing really well. So I am nervous. I'm really nervous. And I don't know why I think
• 16:45
  Sometimes a year before the World Cup, things don't go your way and sometimes it's not a bad thing. But no, I need to change my attitude. I think we'll be ready for Saturday. I'm a bit arrogant. How about the All Blacks? Because I'm the same as Victor. I'm incredibly passionate about.
• 17:10
  about the team and I think what's happened to us over the last 18 months, we're not used to. You know, what happened with Razor, what's been happening with the team, performances, has just made us all sit back and say, we need to relook at stuff. So, you know, I think Dave Rennie getting the job is a real positive, I think he's amazing, I think he's got some really great people around him.
• 17:36
  I think the next step for him is taking those risks, right? Taking the risks with selection. So if you're going to show some risk, and, you know, Victor talks about this a lot, you know, then you need a, I think you need a combination of experienced test people and then youth. So I think the biggest risk is do you play Ruben Love
• 18:03
  at 10 from the start against France. My immediate thought is yes. Okay, maybe just one thing that I've learned, and I mean...
• 18:11
  When we played, it was different. The one thing I saw from Russ here is whenever he gave youngsters opportunities, like you said, I mean, there was always someone experienced next to them. But it's not, I mean, and that makes good coaches. It's letting them go, telling them, listen, this is not a risk. You're the best at the moment. You're the best player to play. Go out there and go show what you can do. And I think...
• 18:35
  That's part of what a coach needs to do. He needs to be able to give young players the confidence. And I'm going back. I mean, we picked, what's it, two years ago, we picked 13 youngsters, I think, all under 10 caps against Australia.
• 18:49
  We had all the experience on the bench. Half-time, it didn't go well. Didn't put all the experience on. Rusty, stick to those youngsters. You were picked. Go out. And, I mean, they turn it around and they ran away with that game. So it's all about giving the confidence to those young players and putting the experience around them to carry them through the game as well. J.K., how old were you when you made your debut for the All Blacks? I was 19...
• 19:17
  19 years, three months, three weeks and three days, I think, was the official. I was the third youngest after Maki Heroine. And the winger from the Waikato that broke his ankle playing. Craig Wicks. Craig Wicks, exactly. Yeah.
• 19:35
  but everyone in the team, Ricardo, was 29. I was the youngest by 10 years. So I think it's that balance. So you ask me a question, why am I nervous? And I'm nervous because there's been an upheaval in New Zealand rugby. There's been a change of everybody, you know, CEO, coach, trainers. Good to see Gilbert Anoka back, you know. Good to see Sir Graeme Henry back, Ted. And I think we've got a short program to the next World Cup.
• 20:04
  Last year we did not resolve anything around who our next first five is. Richie Mwanga is coming back into it, you know, but I would love to see him take a –
• 20:16
  a little bit of risk with this first side against France. I'm pretty sure Victor internally, you know, he'll be saying all those things. He'll have complete confidence in the team that he's picking. I have no doubt he'll be doing that internally. I think what makes me nervous is I want the New Zealand public to have a little bit of patience if it's,
• 20:36
  if it doesn't go according to plan, because I think there's a bigger picture here, you know. I'm really confident we've got a really good side. I think it's a really well-balanced team. You know, when you leave Rico Ioane out of a side, you've got to be pretty confident. I'm pretty sure he'll come back in
• 20:54
  you know, into the fold, but that creates internal motivation. You know, it's like, hey, Victor, you know, one of your mates gets dropped and he's an 80-test veteran. You're going, whoa, that's a message from me too, brother. You know, I'm going to pick my shit up. Get on with it, you know.
• 21:11
  So Victor, you know, the Toulouse-Montpellier game, you know, you're our French expert all your time in Toulon. How is your French? Are you good at French? No, go on. I struggle to speak English. What do you mean French? Come on. Even the English is a problem for me. Oh, struggle through your English review of the French top 14 final. I mean, the quality of Toulouse is just unbelievable. They couldn't have been happy.
• 21:40
  to not make even the semi-finals of the Champions Cup. So, I mean, a quality team, and I said it earlier, there's probably, I think probably five or six players that definitely will be in a starting fringe team. They've dominated the top 14 as well. So yeah, well done to them.
• 21:57
  I think it's four in a row now. So, just unbelievable. They were just so strong. We're focusing on the Nations Cup now. Come on, we haven't spoken about Ireland, Australia, Scotland, Argentina, Japan versus Italy. Come on, that's a focus. Japan, Italy, that's a good one. Your team just lost to the Maori by a short margin. Two points, just two points.
• 22:23
  Yeah, yeah. It's close. I didn't see that either. And they lead, so, I mean, second half, the wheels just came off. Yeah. Yeah, we'll be watching their lineouts closely. So what was your clip drift moment of the week? We'll start with you, JK. JK.
• 22:38
  Oh, it's a bit of a selfish one for me. It was actually the All Blacks getting together and getting all that gear because I used to love that. I used to love getting, you know, all that free gear, man. Like in the All Blacks, like towards the end of my career, like when I first made it, we didn't get anything. Towards the end of it, you know, it was about seven grand's worth of gear. You'd get a couple of bags, but,
• 23:01
  Then when you see it now, it's like they walk into an Adidas shop, mate. They get all these shoes, all these boots, and I was just thinking how awesome that is. And look, I think, you know, for the new boys that have been selected, you imagine, you know, coming from Germany, and then all of a sudden you left your country to live this dream, and then, you know...
• 23:26
  he's sitting there with like 25 grand's worth of gear with all black logos on it, you know. And I just think that, you know, Lechner, it's a great story in itself, but just him getting all that gear. And even the older guys, you know, the older guys will love it as well.
• 23:44
  But what I love about Segner is he's come all the way to New Zealand to make the All Blacks and get a whole lot of Adidesk gear, which is from the village where his grandparents live. And what's your clip drift moment of the week, Victor? Yeah, clip drift moment of the week. I love the Barbarians.
• 24:06
  I was there when George North played his first game for Wales and he scored two tries against us in Cardiff. And, yeah, just seeing him playing his last game, going out first touch of the ball, broke three tackles, went to score and, I mean, scored another try. So I played with him at Northampton as well. Great guy, humble guy, fantastic rugby players. That was one of the best...
• 24:34
  First games of a player I've played against when he scored those two tries. He was impressive, 19 years old, unbelievable and what a player for Wales. So, Georgie, well done on your career, been unbelievable and you definitely my Clipworth moment of the week. I didn't know you played at Northampton. When did you play at Northampton? I played there for six months in 2016.
• 24:59
  It's a money deal, Ricardo. It's a money deal, mate. Just quick retirement fund. Just knocked on retirement. Just pay me three times what everyone else gets and I'll be there for six months. Don't you worry. Just because it's for the love of the Northampton jersey. Of course it is. That's why we won the premiership. What do you think? Victor, do you speak Afrikaans at home? Yes.
• 25:25
  At home, at work, everywhere I speak Afrikaans. In Pretoria, we only speak Afrikaans. Really? Yes. Okay. Might have to learn something. How many languages do you speak, JK? I don't speak any well. So, Clipdrift in Afrikaans, Clipdrift Premium is by Lackadres Nidas.
• 25:49
  Buy lacquer there. So lacquer is better. It's nice. So lacquer is a nice word. You'll use it a lot when you come over. My boot tag. I think it's really important, Victor, that you teach JK how to talk properly, how to behave properly before he comes to South Africa. Because he might take beauty and tutorial as well, especially with those glasses. What do you mean? What do you mean, act well? I'm going to be over there with all my all-black, buddy...
• 26:19
  I hope you're not going to say friends. You're not getting freebies anymore, remember? You'll have to buy them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Did you buy those glasses? Riccardo, let me do the fashion, you too. I've got a fair order for you. I thought you were getting new glasses. Jaiqa, you said you were getting new glasses.
• 26:37
  Yeah, but you can't just walk in and buy them, Victor. You need to get your face measured properly. You need to understand your colors, mate. You need to make sure, like, with those long locks of yours, mate, you probably couldn't roll with these things. So the guy who does the work… He's got these. Is that all right? They're too small for your face. They're too small for your face, brother. They're too small for your face. This is, I think, 10 Rand glasses I bought at the garage just for reading. Yeah.
• 27:05
  No, you can't do that, Victor. Look, I think... I'll talk to my boys. I'll talk to my boys. I'm going to see them in the next few days to get my new wheels. And Ricardo, there's no hope for you, mate. No, if Victor starts wearing these glasses... I bet you you've got a pair of those $2 glasses on your desk as well. Yeah. Have you? Yeah, put them on. No. Right, that's the end of the show. Shut up. Goodbye. Thank you. Good night.