Latest / Skin Anarchy / Dr. Iris Rubin, SEEN Haircare

Transcript

Dr. Iris Rubin, SEEN Haircare · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
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• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Hi guys, welcome back to Spring Care Anarchy.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is Vecta, and I have another phenomenal guest today.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am obsessed with our hair care line.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It is absolutely wonderful and um it just it does so well for my hair.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I want to introduce you guys to Dr.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Iris Rubin, who is the founder of Scene Um Beauty.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome to the show, Dr.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Rubin.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so excited.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Eta.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Such a such a pleasure to be here.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love what you're doing and um excited to get to chat today.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much for the kind words.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to start off by actually talking about your background because I know you have your MD and you have the medical side of things.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want I want to know like where all of this came from and like, you know, the inspiration and vision for this line.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um it's funny because um we we were just chatting offline about how you're a surgeon and how I always actually thought I'd become a surgeon.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to become a cardiac surgeon, and then I discovered that I need to sleep.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I I really did not um go into medical school thinking.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I become a dermatologist, um, but I really fell in love actually with a lot of the um aspects as it related to to kids with um disfiguring conditions.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I spent much of my career at children's in the laser program, um, heading up the laser program, treating babies and kids with disfiguring birthmarks and scars.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, you know, the the plan for scene was also, you know, really not in a million years that I think I would launch a hair care line.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: But um, the story is I was actually getting acne well into my 30s.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And um I've always been acne prone.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I I just thought, wow, like what's going on here?
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's got to be something else.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And discovered that in my case, it was actually my hair care products in my 30s that were causing um acne and breakouts, and made this connection that hair care products really impact the skin, not just for me, but for you know, for everyone.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: And um, that's how you the scene, the idea for scene came about.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So the idea that we could create skin-friendly hair care because hair care, most hair care really is not designed with the skin in mind, even though it gets on your skin and actually stays on your skin for hours in many cases.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is such a phenomenal point that you brought up.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so glad you mentioned that because I was actually trying to like um like highlight that in some of my other episodes with um hair care uh brand founders that was that like that was my issue too.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could not use like Pantene Pro V, for example, you know what I mean, or like certain brands.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just and for the longest time I was like, why do I keep breaking out?
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've always had acne-prone skin.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that you brought that up because it's very, very true.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people don't recognize that, you know, they keep trying like new skincare and new products, but it's like, have you looked at your hair care?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are you using for your hair?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, no, and I think what you say makes so much sense because you know, I'm even though I um founded a beauty company and and I am a beauty minimalist.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think in a lot of cases, it's not about layering on more and more products, but it's about using the right products.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think people really deserve to know that their hair care products could be impacting their skin.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: In my case, it was acne, but hair care products can also cause scalp issues, they can cause irritation, people can have fragrance sensitivities.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there's a whole host of issues.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And interestingly, we actually have a lot of people who also love seeing.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have a fragrance-free version that um people's migraines love because you know, it can also affect um affect you, you know, beyond beyond your skin.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think um it's it's a new concept, but it's kind of something that you know people quickly realize, like, yeah, you know, if I use shampoo and conditioner, it's rinsing down my face, my chest, my back, or you know, leave-in products are designed to leave a residue.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: You're basically rolling around in them all night with you know with your pillowcase.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that you're highlighting this.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: I hope everyone listening, hope you're paying attention because these are some very critical points.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, yeah, yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_01: No, actually, I was gonna say, so it seems obvious, but like I actually kept a lab notebook for years.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I was working at children's as a pediatric laser surgeon for four years.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I would, you know, as we were developing these products, I kept the lab notebook because, you know, um, at least for me, if I'm gonna break out from a product, it doesn't happen right away.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: It happens for me five to seven days later.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you only want to have one variable.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think it's tricky, you know, for for sometimes for people to realize what's causing their breakouts.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, it this this process really, you know, and four years of development and me actually putting hair care products directly on my face led to our launch of scene um about two and a half years ago.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you were putting them on your face?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I have a twin sister.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, of course, I made her be my control, which she was not thrilled about.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, I even though I didn't change anything, breakouts can happen for so many reasons.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I would put them on my face and then I would have my twin sister put them on her face.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then of course we put everything through once we had a final formula, third-party commutagenicity testing and and um testing to make sure that they're safety and allergy tested and not irritating.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But the initial screen, yes, was on my face.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that's so cool.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you went straight to the, you know what I mean, the source.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like that is amazing.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's a great research uh strategy, great protocol.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: I know it was the first time I was like thanking my acne prone genetics.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I've got the craziest hair and acne prone skin.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, you know, everyone always like talks about a silver lining.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the silver lining of that was, you know, having the in-home lab with my you know own body to to create scene.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, no, I love that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think as medical um professionals, we have this like inclination to where we're like, can I try this?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, let me try this, see what happens.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh yeah.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I when when I used to do laser research at Harvard, um, I was working actually on developing a vein selective laser for port weinstains.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: And um, of course, I immediately took it to, you know, a leg vein that I had on my leg, not thinking, you know, twice.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I didn't scar anything.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think that's that is our immediate inclination.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I, you know, I want to actually talk because about the range of products that you came out with then because um I know that a lot of brands, you know, it's just the market is so saturated.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, with hair care, for me it's a relatively new area in terms of like, you know, um interviewing founders and interviewing um, you know, brands.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I I want to know like what you found to be like the hallmark products, because I know that your the serum that um I've been using, I I actually posted on my dermal unity account because I fell in love with it instantly.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um I love that serum.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but I know I want to know, like, it did you just want to start off with like a shampoo and conditioner?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how did you envision this going like in terms of your range?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, well, so so I I can't say I started with a concept rather than necessarily a range.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: So the whole idea was, you know, um, we shouldn't have to compromise our skin for beautiful hair, but people do it every day.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: In my case, it was acne.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, if your acne problem, like pretty much every teenager and most adult women and many men, like why would you knowingly bathe every day in pore clogging ingredients?
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you're doing all this stuff with your skincare.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in some cases going on, you know, prescription medications, and it's like stepping on the gas and the brakes at the same time, and then you're bathing in these pore clogging ingredients.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the concept.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you we did a study we actually published in Journal of Drugs and Dermatology showing that even rinse-off products can leave a residue for hours on the skin.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So even a shampoo and conditioner can cause skin issues.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: You rinse about it, forget about it, but your skin actually doesn't.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the start to start just with the basic shampoo and conditioner.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, I've got very, very frizzy curly hair, but but lots of frizz and some curls as well.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it was important to have styling products as well.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of some of those are the biggest offenders, especially for curly girls like me.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, any hair care products can cause a variety of skin issues, but for curly hair, you're looking for moisture and many of those hydrating, thick ingredients can, you know, cause um, in particular, acne and breakouts.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: So we came out initially with a shampoo conditioner and a blowout cream.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: We actually had a curly cream in development, but it took like, I'd say almost 30 versions.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we didn't we decided to launch without it because it just wasn't ready yet.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: And one of our big, big principles is no compromises.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So this had to be amazing hair care that someone without any skin issues would want to use.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, we're really proud that we've won eight beauty awards just on the hair benefits.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, seen as anti-breakage, it's anti-frizz, clean, vegan, um, you know, free of everything you wouldn't want to have in your hair care on your body, you know, or on your skin.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: So uh so that was the initial launch.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: But the serum that you talked about is probably my favorite product too, because it's like instant results.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: And who doesn't want to?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing for everyone listening.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's the most amazing product because, like for me, like um, I'm noticing like in my 30s, I'm in my mid-30s, and I'm noticing my hair, I have very dark hair, you know, almost black, and it's losing kind of that um luster, you know what I mean, that you have in your 20s and whatnot.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I've noticed that whenever I use that serum, it just like brings it to life like immediately.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm obsessed with it.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's amazing.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, so it looks so simple because it's three completely naturally derived ingredients.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the amazing thing is, I must have tried like, I don't know, 15 or more raw materials just to um try and, you know, to come up with this because we we had multiple versions, but um, to come up with something that's amazing for hair and for skin and walkog pores and non-irritating, you know, this was kind of the magic formula, but it's it's kind of crazy too, because we put it through testing and even with a single use, it reduces breakage by 81%.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it gives you like the shine, and that's I love shine in my hair and it reduces frizz and anti-breakage.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: So um, and what I also love about it is I'm like super dry hair.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: So I will cocktail it with, you know, um to other scene products too.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: So you can use it on its own or you can mix it in, you know, when I blow out my hair, I'll mix in um a bunch of magic serum just with the with the blowout cream because my hair is so coarse and frizzy.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's super light.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I was so shocked when I first use it because I was like, um, I think this is gonna be really like oil-based and greasy, but it was not, it was like very light.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't even tell that I put anything in my hair, but it was like obviously the results showed.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really one of those products.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_00: All the listeners out there, if there's one product you need to go buy from scene, it's that one, the magic hair serum, because it's so good.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really genuinely, like my hair is very finicky, you know what I mean?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like um, it doesn't like everything.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: And very often I'm like, oh gosh, I have to throw this out now because I I bought it and it doesn't work.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, that's my general, like genuine hair care journey.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean, before I launched scene, I had like a closet full.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure most people have that closet full.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to throw it out because it was expensive.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're like, hmm, maybe like I'll like it one day.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I mean, Magic Serum, I think um it it's it's actually oil-free.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: It does have squalin, which some people consider an oil.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: We we don't.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, you don't need like a ton of oil to So what does squalin do for the hair?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm so curious about hair health because like I really don't not gonna lie, I don't know much about it.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know that like it's you know, it falls into the under the realm of like dermatology and like um, you know, we're just not seeing a lot of like more information come out and like people are posting more about hair care and hair health and scalp health, but like can you get tell me a little bit of information just for our listeners to really understand like the general idea of like scalp health and hair health?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let me answer the squalane and then the scalp health, hair health is such a such, I love that question.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So squalane is um derived from sugar cane sustainably, and um it prevents moisture loss and nourishes the hair, and it also strengthens the hair and adds this glass-like shine.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually an ingredient that's in a ton of skincare products, but it's it's amazing for the hair as well.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've heard of it in skincare.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I was like, well, that's very interesting that you put it in a hair care product.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, well, we borrow actually a lot of um skincare um ingredients for for our hair care products.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but so scalp health and hair health is super interesting because if you think about it, the scalp is, you know, basically the manufacturing plant for the hair.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: The hair follicles is where the hair is made.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, um scene doesn't clog the pores and it doesn't irritate the skin.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so that just really promotes healthy hair.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we actually have a study we're looking at um, you know, the specifics of what this does to hair health.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, we know that scene gives you um stronger, smoother, healthier hair.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one really great um aspect also is scene is silicone free, so it won't weigh down the hair.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, we did a study and showed three times the volume when you use scene as a regimen, which can be really great for anyone who's dealing with thinning hair and just, you know, or has fine hair and just really wants to get that volume.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, I think that, you know, for me, I'm still stuck on the fact that you've done so many studies around this.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's really phenomenal.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what, Ekha, the crazy thing is, our two, can I tell you about our two coolest studies?
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have Of course, yes, please.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: So, okay, so the so we started when this all this started, because you know, we're scientists, so like when when we see something, we got to figure out what's going on.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the first study was this residue study, which we published showing that hair products um can leave a residue on the skin for hours, including rinse-off products.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: Then I said, Okay, I know I'm getting acne from my hair care products, but like how big of a problem is this?
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_01: So we gave the um to um to use for eight weeks in a dermatologist-graded study, and I was astounded by the results.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: 70% of people with body acne got better, and 52% with face acne got better.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, this is like you change your care, and you know, your acne improves because you're you're not using communogenic um products.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then we kept hearing from people that um that their dry scalp was improving.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: So we said, okay, let's do a study.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: We gave um 30 people scene to use for four weeks.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Again, dermatol dysgraded.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: All of this is statistically significant.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: And 93% had improvement in their dry, flaky scalp, and 73% had improvement in scalp itch.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, it's it's crazy how many people tell us like scene is life-changing.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I mean, we hear it, we hear it like pretty much like a couple of times a week.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get a message from um, you know, I'm thinking of a couple that came in this week.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Message we got, you know, one one gentleman who had been dealing with um actually in his case was scalp acne, and he just got so much better with scene.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I do think we're not a medicated product, but you know, I think what's happening here is we're just we've just cleaned up hair care, you know, just in the same way that food got cleaned up.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Once everyone realized what's in their food, no one wanted, you know, all that stuff in their, you know, food.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: And and and it it goes beyond the whole clean story because you can be have a really clean product and be really bad for the skin.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: So for example, um, you know, people say is natural always skin friendly?
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I I like to give the example that poison ivy is 100% natural.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's tons of botanicals that can cause contact dermatitis and allergies, and then essential oils, you know, some of them can clog pore.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, so it really goes, you know, far beyond clean and just, you know, getting hair care that also just respects the skin.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it's that's a great point.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I also think it's very important to have products by founders who not only do the clinical trials or the research or the studies, but like that can really interpret those studies, right?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like it's it for me, it's like I have so many brands telling me, yeah, well, we did the study.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: But then like, how did you really apply it?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, did it like was it relevant?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like what, you know, and so I think what you're sharing here is like so much more meaningful in that way for me as a scientist, because I'm sitting here like, these are like literally like your your study design and your protocol and what you're studying, you know, your hypothesis, these are things you want to know, you know, about like hair care and what those products are doing to you.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, I can't tell you how many people in my family have the same problem.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I already shared my experience where I've had, you know, bat, you know, back acne, face acne, chest acne because of the hair care that I was using.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: My mother's the same way, like she gets those like little, you know what I mean, the little um bumps on her scalp as well.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: So she's very sensitive to almost every product.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: We have to send her scene.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is she where is she where is she where does she live?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'll send her.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, she's in Ohio, so I'm going to definitely be sending her everything.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Don't worry.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're having to send it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, send send me your mom's address.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'll send it to her.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I will.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I really I I just want to I just want to take a moment and like really, you know, acknowledge just the good work that you've done on the scientific level for this, because you know, hair care is something I think in this industry, like we always look at hair care products as like what's gonna make my hair look the prettiest, which I'm not saying isn't a component of your brand.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying that that can't be the only thing, right?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because we have so many people that are flooding Reddit and they're flooding these forums with questions about, you know, body acne and you know, all these things.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm sitting here and I read these and I'm like, well, you're only telling me that you use retinol or vitamin C and you're confused why you have acne on your lower back all of a sudden.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: What are you using?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so that's where the relevance comes in with the studies that you've done about the residue, because not the the general public is not really, I think, catching up um fast enough to this idea.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I keep emphasizing it.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone listening, I hope that you can really take that message away from this is that you really have to look at whatever you put on your hair, on your body, everywhere, you know, when you're looking at different pathologies.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, again, we're not saying we're a cure for body acne, but you know, hair care products are a contributor.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it's really important to look at everything you're putting on your skin.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and yeah, I think, you know, to your point, like we are deeply science um based.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we, you know, the acne study was published in a peer-reviewed dermatology journal and the dry scalp study I just submitted um to a peer-reviewed um dermatology journal.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, our hair health study is actually going on at a major academic institution, um, you know, with a large patient group.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, wow, I think scene found me.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I it's not a marketing story, it's about creating products that make people's lives better.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just amazing.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like we got one um email, like, I never thought I'd say this about a shampoo company, but you changed my life.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we are not a shampoo company, like the the, you know, I know we are, but we're really not.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So scene, we're called scene because if your hair or skin don't look good, if you're like me, you know, you just feel like you want to hide.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it's just about giving people the confidence to be seen, to have their, you know, um be seen for their best self, you know, and and not feel like they want to hide because they have, you know, pimples on their face or they've got a dry scalp or they've, you know, their hair is frizzy.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that's really what seen is about.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that makes sense.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I love the name.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely love the name.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I would, you know, um even like to compliment what you said by like, you know, acknowledging that, yeah, there are so many teenagers that, you know, you'll see them like they have acne or they're breaking out and they're just like so self-conscious, and you know, they'll hide it behind long hair or like, you know, something like it's just and it just like almost like exacerbates the problem because it's like they'll have an oily scalp and it's making it worse.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, oh gosh, you know.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, I think that I think that the vision and that the science-centered approach really shows in your line.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me, you know, obviously, as for me with my background, it's easy for me to see, but I think for consumers, like it's like I said, it's important to get this data out there in an understandable way so that people can understand that the there's a lot of relevance here.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just about hair, it's about your overall health, you know.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I I I really, really commend your work.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I think you're so you're so sweet.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it, but it's so true, like that this is that there's real science here.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that people do deserve to know that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Impact of hair products on their skin and make better choices.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I kind of look at seeing this like using a smartphone instead of using a flip phone.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And what you said about teenagers with acne, I mean, I have a teenager who hopefully won't listen to this podcast and be like, Mom, why'd you talk about me?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, there have been times where he didn't want to go out if his acne was flaring.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, and and he did exactly what, you know, he grew his hair long to cover the acne on his forehead.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, he's seen, which definitely helped him.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's not the only cause of acne.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And in his case, actually needed to go on on Accutane, but it can, it can make, you know, really affect self-esteem, make you want to hide.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's, you know, it's it's much more than skin deep.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, don't worry.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: I hope if he listens, he'll he'll think we're cool.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know about that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna get in trouble for this one, but but you know, um, that's okay.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: We'll keep it on the down low for now.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean I I love that you're I mean, I love that you're just so like, you know, um like transparent with this this whole idea and the whole science behind it because I think, you know, it's just something that's not talked about enough.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And also with hair, you know, it's very much like um, you know, like a skin condition because I know for me, you know, growing up, like for me, my hair was a very big deal because I, you know, my background is Indian and um I always used to get compliments on my hair.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So I tried to make that like my standout feature because I had very um acne-prone skin, you know, as a teenager.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was very self-conscious.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I would look to other things on my body that I could use as things to motivate me, to make me feel good about myself.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: And my hair was one of those aspects that I always wanted to maintain, always wanted to keep up with.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think, you know, when you look at body image and especially now in the industry where it's just being like kind of plastered all over the place about, you know, body image and like love your body and all this, it's really important to have these like micro um level conversations, you know what I mean, and really discuss like what does that mean?
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like what does body positivity mean?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you have to break it down into aspects, and one of them is hair, one of them is skin, one of them is the makeup you use, you know.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I think this conversation is just so multidimensional, if you really think about it.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I told your hair is beautiful.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at your your Zoom picture here, and I see even like, you know, it's amazing because you've got your stethoscope and your hair is down.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like my hair was always up when I when I had a stethoscope.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: And um, when I was in the operating room at children's, my hair never looks good because I never took the time to do it.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm impressed.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: Your hair looks beautiful.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I love actually what you just said about like focusing on, you know, what is beautiful about yourself.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, that's such a powerful statement that I think people don't necessarily do.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, because you know, it's not about having perfect hair or perfect skin, but it's you know, about being the best version of yourself.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, things aren't perfect.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that, just like to shifting to what is beautiful.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I wanna I wanna kind of take this further and talk about um, you know, where you see like in terms of like just I know there's so many hairstylists and hair salons, and you know, I know a lot of hair care products are like marketed for that reason, you know.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um have you uh have you been in uh collab with any hair salons or like how how are you distributing and um like focusing on accessibility and stuff with your line?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, love it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually one thing that's been really um really impactful about seeing has been our fragrance-free formulas.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's unbelievable to me how many people have fragrance um sensitivities and have really struggled to find a cosmetically elegant product and really have had to use products that just really didn't make their hair look good.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, um that and then the again, migraines has been huge, like the number of people who have um loved fragrance-free scene because they may get a migrant or their partner.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then interestingly, we've had some people actually who recovered from COVID and had um just a change in smell and couldn't tolerate um smells, who've also just loved fragrance-free scene.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: But in terms of how people find us, so we're primarily a direct-to-consumer company.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: We do get a lot of referrals from dermatologists.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then we have some really key partnerships.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we um we're on Alta.com.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Alta is an amazing uh partner of ours.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: We were actually in their Sparked program as well, where we were in a hundred stores um for new up-and-coming brands.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're on Skin Store and Derm Store as well.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, you know, I want to go back to what you said about fragrance because you bring up a very, very important point here.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is something that's so overlooked.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I just realized that it's like, you know, we don't talk about fragrance when it comes to hair care products, it's like a norm.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like everything has fragrance in it.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my mother genuinely is going to be your biggest fan.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm gonna get it.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, we're sending mom, you're getting actually scene.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, my mom.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's scene really is for the whole family.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: So, like my my kids never thought um, you know, I was a pediatric laser surgeon at Schuldens.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: They never thought like anything about they never told me that that was cool.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: But then when I created scene and I helped their skin, they're like, oh my gosh, this is so cool.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, so kids love it for you know, helping their skin.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then also our scented version, I think smells amazing and and people love it for that and the hair benefits.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then of course, you know, anyone who's you know, irritation or acne prone or is looking for smoothing or strengthening.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then um, my mom's friends love scene, I think for the volumizing effect.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so you know, I hope I hope your mom loves it as well.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: But my my own mom actually suffers from hair loss and she was um, she bought a wig and I said, mom, look, let's just try using scene, scene only.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: This is when it just was coming out, um, and see see how you do.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: And she was able to get the volume she needed with um with scene, where she didn't actually have to use a wig, which you know, I was really um excited about.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I love that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I know.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: Did you follow up with a study on that with like hair growth and stuff?
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like we're looking at it.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: We are looking at that, yes.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow, I am so excited.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see the results when you have them because so do I, so do I.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, it's like you found the holy grail of hair care.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is crazy.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's this is so cool.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's funny, people use that a lot.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: We hear life-changing, game-changing, holy grail, lifetime customer.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I just think it was, yeah, it was kind of like, you know, just a hole in the whole hair care story.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, I I will say, like, we do have the fragrance and the fragrance-free.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like most people, um, I do feel not most people, but many people pick their hair care based on on fragrance.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I'm one of those people where I actually like for my shampoo to have a scent.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: My, you know, business partner is actually married to my twin sister.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: He he prefers our fragrance-free version, but you know, we just think it's a choice.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then some people who just want a super clean product also don't believe in any fragrance.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, that's so, you know, an option.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's very true.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And also um keeping the science spirit alive.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think if you're truly a consumer that's very science conscious and you want to keep, you know what I mean?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: You really want to do your own test on yourself.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you have to have a control, right?
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have a you have to have two options.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can't always be using fragrance products if you're trying to figure out if that's the cause of your sensitivity or not.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or, you know, so I'm really glad that you had that option out there because a lot of people, I think, you know, we don't know, you know, we're just now understanding in medicine that allergens can come in all forms.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And we're just now getting to the point where people are getting tested for allergies, you know, beyond just like the the big ones, right?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_00: That we used to see, like peanut allergy and all that.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're now people are really like, oh, am I sensitive to this?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think these kind of products, like they have a much more deeper meaning, you know what I mean?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: And and because and the fact that they're available, because it gives people a lot more um control, I think, over their health and their their choices.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if you don't have anything available that's you know, fragrance free, for example, like we just talked about, then you can't, you know, the consumer is never gonna know um, you know, if that is something that's causing problems for them.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that you've really kept that spirit of, you know, ethic, good ethics and good, you know, science backing.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think it really shows in your Yeah, I love it.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would say, because we do have a lot of very um people with a lot of skin allergies who who use scene.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting because I I don't know if everyone realizes, but like if if someone has a lot of skin allergies and is really struggling to find products, you know, there's always um patch testing or skin allergy testing can be that can be done.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: But but of course, if you can just in your own home do your own, you know, type of um testing, you know, that's that's great.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But for people who really are struggling to figure out what they're reacting to, you know, that's one tip that can be helpful.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, absolutely.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I want to actually ask you, because I know um around the hair care conversation, there's a lot of um a lot of question marks about different hair types, you know, and you know, what kind of products are good for what hair type.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how did you like incorporate that, you know, whole um conversation, or I guess like, you know, the big question mark around it?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: How did you incorporate that into your brand?
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: So we designed scene for all hair types, knowing that we would have to come out with additional products.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, we we wanted scene, our initial shampoo and conditioner to work for all hair types.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, and so if well while they do, we also quickly realized, you know what, there's some people who want more moisture for their conditioner.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we launched scene deeper conditioner um a couple months ago.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: But it's surprising that actually one shampoo works for so many hair types, and then you know, two conditioners seem to also work for all hair types.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then we added magic serum for those who want even more moisture.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I personally find it really confusing when you look at a brand that has like a hundred SKUs and you're like, which one do I pick?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do I, you know, um, and and I think that it's not always necessary to have that many options.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's certainly necessary to have some options.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but you know, we found that it could actually be um pretty, pretty streamlined.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in fact, and so far just have one shampoo, two conditioners, and three styling products.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I really love that because I think for hair care, it's extremely difficult.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I almost feel like for hair care, it's a little bit even more tricky than skincare sometimes because I go on and I'm like, you know, I have straight hair some days, I have wavy hair other days, I don't know what to buy, you know.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: So I end up buying like 10 products and using one.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, yeah, I'm really glad that you simplified it.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think like our blowout cream is just like great for all hair types.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: We launched a curly cream, which um, you know, we tell people with really fine curls to actually use the blowout cream.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So there's just ways to make it work with a more streamlined group of products that I think makes it easier for people not having to purchase so much stuff and also not having to decide between, you know, 10 different shampoos and figure out like which one's right for them.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: I I completely agree with you.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I, you know, I want to actually just kind of wrap up the episode because I I want to know, you know, you have such an amazing background.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: You've done such extraordinary work.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, your line reflects, you know, your heart and and your hard work.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to I want to get some advice from you for all of the young entrepreneurs, all the young people in science, you know, and and just research, like any words of wisdom you have for them.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would just say, like, if you have an idea, um, like go go get the data.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think data, you know, as as as physicians, we're inclined to go straight to the literature.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, the literature is actually behind clinical observation.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's beyond be behind what you said, like people on Reddit talking.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's a lot of data that you can find by talking to your colleagues, you know, observing your own experience, looking at internet chats.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: So I would say if you have an idea, get get the data, ignore naysayers also.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, as long as you you really feel that you have a good idea, and then just surround yourself by great people.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like in my case, my brother-in-law um is my business partner and he's um an amazing business person, Awardon MBA.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I think that that's like really important too.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: And like definitely for it's a labor of love.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like I love working on scene.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we we I started formulating the products in 2014.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: It took four years before we actually launched the product.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: So it has to just be something that like you really believe in.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, you know, it's just so great to see the impact that positive impact it has on people's lives.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I love the creative aspect of it.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love, you know, working with um the team that we have and and doing new things.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I think um I think yeah, that that would be my advice is like, you know, get the data, ignore the naysayers, uh, as long as you really feel that you have a great, you know, concept, and then, you know, um get get the right people around you.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, many of us, you know, often ignore that aspect of having the right people around us, you know.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I I think that that's a solid point.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you so much.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this has been absolutely wonderful.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Est.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: And you're inspiring, you know, before and doing these incredible episodes, like, you know, to you.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's you know, amazing what you're doing and really a privilege to be on your podcast.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you so much.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm so grateful for your words, and it means a lot to me.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm trying my best to put um you know knowledge out there.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's my goal.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I I really appreciate it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: Love it, love it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks for the opportunity to share about scene and um appreciate you know being on your podcast.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, so I hope you love that episode.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: We are available on so many different platforms.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: So wherever it is that you're tuning in, just go hit subscribe.
• 36:18
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• 36:21
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• 36:30
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• 37:12
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