Latest / The Iconic Midlife with Roxy Manning / Bachelor Nation star Michael Allio: Losing His Wife, Raising His Son & Finding Love Again

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Bachelor Nation star Michael Allio: Losing His Wife, Raising His Son & Finding Love Again · The Iconic Midlife with Roxy Manning

• 0:00
  You have lived so many public lives.
• 0:03
  You know, from being on tv, you know, being an entrepreneur.
• 0:06
  You're now releasing a book.
• 0:08
  I would 100% say just my role as a dad.
• 0:12
  There is hope out there.
• 0:14
  There's tons of hope out there, and it never takes away the pain.
• 0:18
  It doesn't go away.
• 0:19
  But you learn to look at life through a different lens.
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  Iconic to me is the freedom and the peace that comes along with being yourself, creating what you want to create, leaving a piece of you in everything that you touch.
• 0:35
  Ignore the noise and just go write your own story.
• 0:46
  Welcome back to the Iconic Midlife, the show where we celebrate courage to reinvent yourself, embrace what's next, and discover that some of life's most meaningful chapters begin after 40.
• 0:58
  Today's guest first entered our lives on the Bachelorette and the Bachelor in Paradise.
• 1:03
  But the story we're talking about today has nothing to do with reality television.
• 1:08
  After losing his wife to cancer, Michael Alio found himself navigating unimaginable grief while raising his young son in searching for a way to help his son understand life's biggest emotions.
• 1:19
  And he began writing bedtime stories, stories that would eventually become his beautifully illustrated children's book, where the Wild Heart Grows.
• 1:28
  Today, we're talking about grief, healing, fatherhood, second chances, vulnerability, and what it really means to create something that outlives you.
• 1:36
  Whether you're rebuilding after loss, navigating a major life transition, or simply wondering what your next chapter looks like, I think you'll find something in this conversation that stays with you long after it's over.
• 1:49
  Let's get into it with Michael Alio.
• 1:51
  Welcome to the iconic Midlife.
• 1:53
  Michael, how are you today?
• 1:56
  I'm doing great.
• 1:57
  Thank you for having me on.
• 1:59
  Oh, thank you so much.
• 2:01
  I'm so thrilled to have you.
• 2:04
  And I loved, you know, of course, reading your story and learning all about you and like, you have lived so many public lives, you know, from, you know, doing tv, being on tv, you know, being an entrepreneur.
• 2:18
  You're now releasing a book.
• 2:20
  You know, you've got so many things going on, so I wanted to know which of those things feels the most authentic to you right now.
• 2:30
  That's a great question.
• 2:31
  I would 100% say just my role as a dad.
• 2:37
  I have really leaned into that job, and I'm not sure if it was forged by fire or if it was always in me.
• 2:48
  But I was saying this earlier.
• 2:49
  My son's nine years old now, and it's been the greatest blessing watching him just grow up and being a.
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  Being A part of it.
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  I'm lucky in the sense that all the projects that I'm a part of have a deeply personal, personal connection.
• 3:07
  And so while no day is ever perfect, I.
• 3:12
  The things that I'm working on, I.
• 3:14
  I absolutely love, and they've got so much purpose and meaning behind it that I just.
• 3:18
  I'm in a season where I feel just incredibly blessed.
• 3:23
  Yeah.
• 3:23
  Do you feel like you were a natural dad where you.
• 3:25
  Do you feel like you were always meant to be a dad?
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  I remember taking James home from the hospital and.
• 3:32
  And thinking that this kid's in danger because I have no idea how to take care of him at all.
• 3:40
  You know, when you're in the hospital, you've got the nurses taking care of you and all of that, and then you just kind of figure it out as you go.
• 3:49
  And I think I'm going to be turning 43 this year.
• 3:54
  It's one lesson that I've really learned in life is that.
• 3:58
  That you're never ready for anything, and you could spend your whole entire life preparing for something, but the truth is, most things are.
• 4:09
  Are learned through experience and on the fly.
• 4:12
  So I guess, to answer your question, I don't think I was just a natural dad, but it's something that I've.
• 4:18
  I've cared about and prioritized and so that I'm.
• 4:23
  I'm starting to really appreciate the payoff.
• 4:27
  Yeah.
• 4:27
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 4:28
  And, you know, life is trials and tribulations and things that you go through.
• 4:34
  And, you know, for those who may not know, you know, you lost your wife to cancer in 2019, your late wife, and you were also a father, you know, at the same time already.
• 4:45
  So, you know, how was that?
• 4:49
  Especially in those first, you know, few days, weeks, months?
• 4:53
  Because here you are, you know, you're grieving yourself, but then you're also having to take care of your child because life does not stop.
• 5:01
  So kind of walk me through that a little bit.
• 5:05
  Yeah.
• 5:05
  Laura passed seven years ago, and I honestly can look at my life right now and just with a sense of gratefulness for the fact that the people that I love in my life are.
• 5:21
  Are still intact, that I've been able to learn a lot of lessons along the way, that I have a most beautiful girlfriend right now and have been able to open myself up to love and a future and all
• 5:38
  of that.
• 5:39
  That being said, the early days were incredibly difficult.
• 5:44
  And I know for people that are going through grief right now, and they're in that season of life, I'm always trying to.
• 5:53
  To I mean, I'm in touch with a lot of widowers, a lot of caregivers on a regular basis.
• 5:58
  But there is hope out there.
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  There's tons of hope out there.
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  And it never takes away the pain.
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  It doesn't go away.
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  But you learn to look at life through a different lens.
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  I'm glad you're bringing up dating and sort of, you know, getting back out there and continuing with life because, you know, I think it is an important part of even after losing somebody is to keep living.
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  But was there ever a part of you, did you ever feel like.
• 6:26
  Because I've heard, you know, obviously, like, mixed stories from different people.
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  Did you ever feel like you were betraying your late wife by getting out there again, getting, you know, dating and putting yourself out there?
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  Or was that something that never sort of crossed your mind?
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  How does that, you know, tell me a little bit more about that.
• 6:45
  Dating again after loss is incredibly difficult.
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  And I never personally felt the guilt of betrayal or any sort of guilt of trying to find somebody.
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  My biggest challenge was can I open up my heart again and can I actually give somebody that same opportunity that Laura had?
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  And that took a lot of.
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  Of.
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  Of time to, to heal.
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  And I didn't put my life on the back burner at all because like we were saying earlier, you can prepare for all these things or you can just get out there and start, because I think we.
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  One thing I didn't want to do is over plan my entire life.
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  How is it going to feel?
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  You know, who is it going to be?
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  Is it going to be all those, those questions, while they're real, will drive you crazy if there's no action behind it.
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  And so, you know, I started dating again.
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  I started trying to walk again after all of that.
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  And I, I can tell you with just the biggest smile on my face that, you know, I found the best woman in the world in Jade.
• 8:02
  And watching her interact with my son, watching my son run to her in, in the house and all of that, it's a kind of love that I really was never prepared for.
• 8:16
  Loved your point, too, about not waiting, like, not practicing, like, living life now, because I think so many of us, whether it's, you know, like a situation that you were in or it has to do with career or
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  family or just such a number of different things, I feel like people hold themselves back and wait for like, quote, unquote, the perfect moment.
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  Everything that we love in life is hard.
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  I mean, everything that we value, that we fight for, that keep anything that keeps us up at night.
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  It's the things that we care about and it's the things that are never fully perfect because how could they be?
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  And so one, I mean, one lesson I just learned over the years is we, we have to really stop pretending that we have all this time for, for things to be perfect, that the moment is now that, like,
• 9:11
  get busy making mistakes.
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  Like, it's not, it's not all that serious.
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  And, and there's no better time to start living than now.
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  And I don't mean that to be like toxic positivity, and I don't mean that to be, um, you know, to diminish anybody's experience, but just in my own, I am, I love life so much.
• 9:39
  I've seen people fight for life so hard that I don't want to take that for granted.
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  And so I, I try to instill that into my son, into my relationships, and try to try to put everything into it.
• 9:56
  So how do you, how do you instill that into your son?
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  Like, what are some of the things that you've done to sort of, you know, teach him those things?
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  I, I think the first thing is to appreciate the small things in life.
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  We are, we're, we're surrounded by a lot of beauty that we really overlook.
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  And it really isn't until you're faced with, at least I shouldn't say all of us, but me.
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  It wasn't until I was faced with really challenging problems that were out of my control that I really started looking at the things that I often take for granted.
• 10:35
  And that could be a walk in nature, a certain song, a call to a friend, just certain beauty that's around us.
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  And so we always try, he and I and Jade included, because she's on board with this, is, is to really pause for those, those little things, the things that bring us peace, the things that bring us joy.
• 10:58
  And we have, he's, he's very philosophical for a nine year old, let me tell you.
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  We, we love, we absolutely love nature.
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  We live in Northeast Ohio, right by the Cuyahoga Valley National Park.
• 11:13
  So we're always out there kayaking, going on for hikes and just, just slowing down time a little bit.
• 11:21
  And what has he taught you about life?
• 11:24
  Like, what are some of the things that you've learned from him?
• 11:28
  I love this question, outstanding question, because I feel like I've learned maybe more from him than I have been able to teach him.
• 11:39
  And so Daria James for that.
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  But I'm always stat.
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  When you, when you're talking, I'm Always here for it.
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  And he's.
• 11:48
  There's.
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  There's something special that happens when you look at life through a kid's eyes again.
• 11:53
  I don't know, it reinstills that kind of magic that sometimes as adults, life hardens us a little bit.
• 12:01
  Right.
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  And we get caught up in the routines and the roles and the responsibilities, and there's a real lightness with, with kids.
• 12:09
  It's.
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  It's nice.
• 12:10
  I'm.
• 12:10
  I'm in this season right now in my life with my family, where we're experiencing everything for the first time.
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  So there's so many new moments, and it's invigorated me just.
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  Just to this wonderful, wonderful point where I'm re.
• 12:28
  Energized.
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  And even after losing Laura seven years ago, I.
• 12:33
  I finally feel like I'm back in a place where I am myself and am excited about the future and things are stable and he is happy, she is happy, and in life is finally in the right place.
• 12:47
  It's not a linear ride whatsoever.
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  And I think it would be boring if it was.
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  Absolutely, absolutely.
• 12:55
  And it seems like you're in such a great place right now, like, things are really coming together for you.
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  What do you think Laura would say about where you are right now?
• 13:06
  She.
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  She would be so proud of me.
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  She'd be proud of all of us.
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  She would love Jade.
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  She would love the relationship that James and Jade have established.
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  She would have been laughing at me the entire time during my stint on reality tv being like, what the hell are you doing?
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  And that's the whole point, is that there's.
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  This whole thing is a comedy.
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  It's.
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  Sometimes it's dark comedy, but it's.
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  There's.
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  It's a funny one, and you got to find the humor and things.
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  She always did that.
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  And we continue to do the same thing.
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  I love that.
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  I love that.
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  And, you know, it is funny.
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  You can't take it too seriously.
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  And when I look at your social media, it looks very intentional, like it's not fluffy.
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  It's not like you're very.
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  You seem to come across as authentic and like, truly who you are.
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  So, so was that by design?
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  Was that.
• 14:02
  Was it intended in that be in that way?
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  Because, you know, as we look around the world, we see a lot of things.
• 14:07
  There's a lot of noise, a lot of fluff, a lot of, you know, I've got to do this this way because this person is doing this and, you know, there's a lot of that going on.
• 14:16
  But yours is very.
• 14:17
  It Seems very intentional.
• 14:19
  So was that, you know, on purpose?
• 14:22
  Is that.
• 14:23
  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 14:24
  I mean, I feel like I, when I was given the platform after being on reality tv, I, I felt like I, I never really fit that mold of being an influencer and somebody that is, is, is doing that
• 14:40
  and no, no shade on anybody that's, that's doing that whatsoever.
• 14:45
  It just didn't feel natural for me.
• 14:48
  And one thing that I've noticed just on social media as a whole goal is that especially for kids growing up with it, because that's one thing that I'm so grateful that we never had to deal with.
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  Roxy was growing up in a world of social media where comparison is always at your fingertips and the blueprint and the rule book to being cool and accepted is established by somebody that you'll never meet.
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  And we've established, we've created this copycat culture where trends are chased, where voiceovers are lip synced, where everybody's doing the same exact thing because it's rewarded.
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  And so when, when that gets rewarded, being who you are as a person, your true self will always begin to feel like a risk.
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  And so my, my fear is that kids will somehow mute their gifts to the world because they'll be.
• 15:50
  Because of a fear of being judged for it.
• 15:53
  And so that's, that's a topic that I talk about on, on social media.
• 15:58
  It's a, it's a, it's a story that's at a theme of, of, of one of the seven in, in my book is, is have the courage to be able to be yourself because the things that feel awkward right
• 16:10
  now are, are the gifts that you are going to be able to offer the world and it's what the world needs from you.
• 16:18
  Yeah, it's true, it's true.
• 16:20
  And it's, and it is, and it's a challenge every day as we're raising these kids to kind of tell them to drown the noise out, you know, to really sort of, you know, bring it home.
• 16:29
  Because not everybody, not all families are on the same page with everything, you know, so it's.
• 16:34
  Right.
• 16:34
  It can be really hard to navigate.
• 16:37
  Well, tell me this as, I mean you're raising a 12 year old girl has, has that I, I imagine that's already come to light.
• 16:44
  What's your experience been?
• 16:46
  It absolutely has.
• 16:47
  You know, and especially emerging like going into these preteen years, you know, it's, this is like the time, you know, when things get awkward and you know, social cues and, and, and, and you know, bodies are changing and
• 17:01
  you know, boys and girls are really starting to pay attention to one another at this time.
• 17:06
  I mean, you know, my daughter's right now with her cousin who's also a girl, same age, and they're talking about the boys that were at camp and what they were saying to each other.
• 17:16
  And, you know, so it is really hard to navigate this.
• 17:21
  You know, I just, like, it brings.
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  Me like, oh, true.
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  I'm imagining just, like, being that awkward chaperone to a, you know, dropping kids off at a movie, hearing their conversations at the back.
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  Oh, my God.
• 17:34
  I don't know if I'm ready for it, but we're going to have to be.
• 17:37
  Oh, yeah.
• 17:38
  I'm fully embarrassing now.
• 17:39
  Like, I'm an embarrassing person.
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  Embarrassing mom.
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  Like, I'm not cool.
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  You know, it's like, drop me off here, like, far away.
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  Don't talk, mom.
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  It's all the thing.
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  We, we.
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  We became our parents.
• 17:53
  When did this happen?
• 17:55
  We totally became our parents.
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  And here I thought I was, like, so cool and, like, so evolved and, like, you know, all the things, but apparently I'm not.
• 18:03
  So now.
• 18:05
  No, that's fun.
• 18:07
  No matter where you go, there's always levels, and there's the top and then there's the bottom.
• 18:14
  And we are finding our way on the cool meter going down.
• 18:16
  And you know what?
• 18:17
  We're fine with that.
• 18:19
  Totally.
• 18:20
  Totally.
• 18:20
  I'm like, I guess it's a due we all have to pay, you know, we're torturing our own parents, you know?
• 18:27
  Yeah.
• 18:28
  Yeah.
• 18:28
  It's karma coming back.
• 18:30
  It's totally karma.
• 18:32
  It's totally karma.
• 18:33
  But I am grateful.
• 18:35
  You know, so far we have not gone down the social media route with her, you know, so we're like, holding tight to that for as long as we possibly can.
• 18:44
  You know, it's really hard and, you know, it's.
• 18:47
  It's.
• 18:47
  It's really difficult for, for parents because you're absolutely right.
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  Not all parents are on the same, same plan.
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  And once the dam breaks, it's like everything starts.
• 19:00
  Starts flooding and then they're never going to be able to have that peace and quiet again.
• 19:08
  Like, you know, once that dam breaks and they jump on social media, they will.
• 19:14
  It'll end up shaping them.
• 19:16
  And what I am going to try to do when that time comes is teach him about it.
• 19:23
  And I do think because of just my experience being in the public eye time on reality tv, dealing with people that like you, people that don't like you, all of those different things, I'm hoping that I'll be able
• 19:39
  to give him some insight.
• 19:40
  The online bullying and, like, you know, from people they don't even know on the other end.
• 19:45
  And it's.
• 19:45
  It is so scary, you know, And I.
• 19:48
  I try to kind of show my daughter as well.
• 19:51
  You know, I'm like, oh, you know, I mean, I don't show her the comments, but I do tell her that, you know, people say things to me online that are not very nice.
• 19:58
  And I try to, you know, kind of explain to her, you know, like, how that kind of is, and.
• 20:03
  And, you know, not to let that.
• 20:05
  I don't let it bother me, but I know for them it's different, you know?
• 20:11
  Yeah, yeah, it's a.
• 20:12
  It's a skill that we're all just going to have to learn, unfortunately.
• 20:16
  And I.
• 20:16
  And I don't see any way around it, and.
• 20:19
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 20:20
  So let me ask you this.
• 20:22
  Would you jump back on reality TV if somebody came calling?
• 20:26
  Would you do it again?
• 20:27
  Yeah.
• 20:28
  You know, it's so.
• 20:29
  It's so interesting because somehow I get lumped in with the reality TV world, but my life is so different than that.
• 20:37
  I started a therapeutics company called St.
• 20:40
  James Therapeutics back in 2017, and we developed a topical cream to offset a side effect to chemotherapy that would allow people to be able to finish their chemotherapy without discontinuation or dose reduction, improve their quality of life.
• 20:59
  So much of my work is focused on getting that out to cancer patients that the answer is no.
• 21:07
  Like, I.
• 21:08
  I love.
• 21:08
  I love the work that I'm doing.
• 21:10
  It brings me so much joy.
• 21:12
  It challenges me in a way that.
• 21:14
  That keeps me sharp, keeps me motivated, and I.
• 21:18
  I have never felt more tied to a mission than.
• 21:22
  Than that one.
• 21:23
  Yeah, it's a beautiful mission, and it's a mission with purpose.
• 21:26
  And you've also created this amazing book, which.
• 21:29
  Wow.
• 21:30
  What, like, it.
• 21:31
  Was it a labor of love?
• 21:32
  Was it something you kind of always wanted to do?
• 21:34
  Like, what was the genesis of that?
• 21:37
  Yeah, it's.
• 21:38
  I.
• 21:38
  I came up with a.
• 21:40
  With a book.
• 21:41
  It's out now called where the Wild Prose and the Origin of.
• 21:45
  It's really interesting because I really wasn't setting out to write a book.
• 21:51
  I was setting out to find ways of talking to my son about some of the heavy emotions that were going on at that time for both he and I.
• 22:04
  And I never really knew how to breach that subject in a.
• 22:08
  In a.
• 22:09
  On awkward way.
• 22:11
  And so we always read at bedtime, and I thought, well, if I start writing these stories for him, maybe that'll Open up conversations about letting go, about grief, about the courage to be yourself, about starting over again, about
• 22:27
  what happens when two friends grow apart, about, you know, what if you don't like the way you look and you start to not value yourself because you're comparing yourself to other people.
• 22:41
  And so the book is all taking root in nature.
• 22:46
  There's seven stories that James actually chose for the book.
• 22:50
  I initially wrote 30 of them and he told me which ones made the cut.
• 22:56
  And they're all very much interwoven because something, there's.
• 23:00
  There's a lot of quiet wisdom that exists in kids books.
• 23:04
  And my hope is that when parents are reading it to the kids, the parents will realize that the book was written for them too.
• 23:15
  There's a lot of lessons that just.
• 23:17
  In my opinion, there's a lot of lessons in the book that I think adults forget.
• 23:23
  And we were taught them at one point and then life steered us a different way.
• 23:29
  And there's a story about a spider whose web keeps breaking.
• 23:35
  I think, I think a kid will read that story and say, that's about a spider in a web.
• 23:42
  I think a parent will read that and say, you know, my first marriage wasn't perfect.
• 23:50
  It kept breaking and I have to find the courage to continue to weave a new web again.
• 23:58
  And so they'll be able to apply some of these lessons to their own life.
• 24:02
  And, and it requires some critical thinking.
• 24:05
  It's not spoon fed, it's supposed to be a conversation, it's supposed to make you pause.
• 24:10
  But it's beautifully illustrated by another fellow dad who's a professional illustrator, Luke streeter.
• 24:17
  He did 35 oil paintings for this.
• 24:21
  So we did this the old school way.
• 24:24
  So it's not digital art.
• 24:25
  It's all oil on canvas.
• 24:27
  It feels heirloom and we're just so proud of it.
• 24:30
  The characters are our trees.
• 24:33
  They're dandelions, roses, they're spiders, foxes, squirrels.
• 24:39
  Things in nature that we've stumbled along the way.
• 24:43
  I think one of the biggest parts that is often misconstrued is that it's a book about grief.
• 24:51
  And really it is a book about becoming and all of the challenges of being lost in the wilderness of your own life.
• 25:02
  And this and learning from nature about the seasons of your own life, and appreciating each season that you're in, because there will be a time when that season passes and you will look back into that season, yearning for
• 25:19
  it again.
• 25:20
  And so let's not, let's not rush our way out of things that we know we'll eventually miss.
• 25:27
  That's such a good, that's such a good point.
• 25:29
  And I love how, you know, you've really created it to be a place for both kids and their parents or caregivers, you know, whoever's reading it with them, which is something I feel like, you know, in the day
• 25:42
  to day of our lives, the busyness and the craziness, like that goes by the wayside a lot of the time, you know, we're so busy that we're like, okay, five minutes here.
• 25:51
  You know, I'll be there in a minute like it.
• 25:52
  And it just doesn't happen a lot of the time.
• 25:55
  So that's really, I think, such a good point to like kind of bring people together again.
• 26:02
  Yeah.
• 26:03
  And, and it's, it's structured as a kid's book, but in, in reality it's, it's the words adults need to hear.
• 26:12
  There's nothing in this book, there's no lesson in this book that I, as a 42 year old, don't need reminded of on a regular basis.
• 26:22
  And you know, there's, there's a story about a, a tree that wants to get through, that wants to grow up so quickly until it re.
• 26:33
  Has a conversation with an older tree about all the things that they miss.
• 26:37
  And there's, there's a story about a bird who has stones thrown at it.
• 26:43
  And so it lit.
• 26:44
  The bird lives its life on the forest floor, collecting stones, keeping it from flying.
• 26:49
  And so that's about, you know, resentment and letting go and forgiving not just for the people that harmed you, but for yourself so you can fly again.
• 27:00
  And so there's, there's a lot of quiet wisdom that I hope people take from the book.
• 27:05
  And, and they, and I hope it bridges a lot of meaningful conversations with, with kids, their friends, whoever they want to share with.
• 27:12
  When it comes to grief, what is something, especially when you were going through such a profound grief, you know, a few years back, like what is something that you wish that you knew or that other people knew on
• 27:27
  how to support somebody going through something that challenging?
• 27:31
  Great question.
• 27:32
  I, I think there, there's, there's a few, and this may be a long answer here.
• 27:39
  How much time you got?
• 27:41
  I, oh, as much as you need.
• 27:44
  I, I, I think one of the first things that people want to do is ease somebody's pain and they do that sometimes by trying to fix it.
• 27:55
  When in reality, if you know somebody who is grieving, the best thing to do is sit next to them and be silent.
• 28:03
  They will tell you Everything that they're going through, they'll convince them their way out of it.
• 28:09
  But what they don't want to know, what they don't want to be told, is that things are going to be okay because they don't believe it's okay.
• 28:16
  They need to learn how to walk again.
• 28:18
  They need to get their identity back.
• 28:20
  They need to find their spark for life.
• 28:22
  And all of that is unknown for them.
• 28:25
  If they thought it was okay, they wouldn't be where they're at.
• 28:28
  So I would say just be still with a friend and let them know that it's a safe place.
• 28:33
  The other thing I would say, and this is one thing that I certainly have felt in my life, is the judgment of others.
• 28:42
  Don't judge anybody who's a widower.
• 28:45
  They did not ask for this.
• 28:47
  They, Everything that they are doing is uncomfortable for them, as I know it is for, uncomfortable for other people as well to watch somebody stumble, date again, fail again and keep trying.
• 29:04
  But it's, it's interesting how I've been able to see people cast judgment on, on widowers.
• 29:12
  And I think it's a, I think it's a real shame because these people were, are deeply hurt and they're, they're just trying to find, trying, trying to live again.
• 29:25
  Do you think there's more judgment towards widowers than widows?
• 29:30
  Do you think there's like a difference in the way that people see how they process grief and like how they carry on after?
• 29:39
  It's, it's interesting because I, well, one, I don't know that answer.
• 29:45
  So everything is going to just be my opinion.
• 29:48
  But statistically, men, yeah, men actually get married so much faster than women do after, after losing someone.
• 29:59
  I mean, it's, I believe it's like on average three years after losing somebody, men typically get remarried.
• 30:08
  I'm not sure why, but the statistics are pretty glaring at that.
• 30:13
  Women, on the other hand, are like, yeah, did that.
• 30:16
  I'm not sure I needed to go and I think I'm good.
• 30:18
  So I'm not sure what that says about men, you know, or whatever, but maybe we need to improve how useful we are.
• 30:28
  I don't know.
• 30:30
  But I, I, I, I definitely, I, I, I've spoken with a lot of women that have, that are widows and they told me a mix of, of perception of, especially if they have kids, which is unfortunate.
• 30:48
  It's, it's, it's almost they, they've talked to me about their frustration about feeling like they are one, like damaged, two, have a lot of baggage because they have Children, and that's not as attractive for men.
• 31:05
  And that's.
• 31:06
  That's a real shame because.
• 31:07
  Because what I will say with certainty is, go find yourself a widow or widower because they know a kind of love that you may never be able to come in contact with.
• 31:20
  They.
• 31:21
  Because you have loved and lost, you have an appreciation for the people, for the feeling that you protect it with everything you have.
• 31:29
  So never overlook somebody if they've gone through something they.
• 31:33
  They love with the type of intensity that is beautiful.
• 31:37
  Do you think we're at a point now where men are finally getting permission to, you know, grieve more publicly, to really be open with their emotions in that way, you know, to really tell the story?
• 31:51
  I.
• 31:51
  I hope so.
• 31:52
  I mean, I.
• 31:53
  I've never.
• 31:54
  I looked or asked for permission to be myself.
• 31:58
  I've never.
• 31:58
  Waiting on culture to accept my ideas.
• 32:04
  I'm here for a limited amount of time, and I've got something to say, so I'm going to say it, and I hope other people do, too.
• 32:10
  What I do think is a beautiful thing is fathers are beginning to teach their sons that it's okay.
• 32:19
  And I think that's more important.
• 32:21
  Permission is what happens in the household rather than what culture allows.
• 32:27
  It's.
• 32:27
  It's allowing kids to not have to be, you know, the silent ones that suffer, you know, in the confines of their own room, but they can talk about their feelings.
• 32:41
  It's okay to cry.
• 32:42
  It's okay to be vulnerable and a lot.
• 32:45
  And allowing, you know, for a boy to see his father allow that.
• 32:51
  I think that goes a long way.
• 32:54
  Yeah.
• 32:54
  Yeah, it really does when you see it in practice.
• 32:56
  Right?
• 32:57
  It's, It's, It's.
• 32:58
  It's real.
• 32:59
  You know, it's not abstract.
• 33:00
  And we want to be able to give our children the tools to live a healthy life.
• 33:08
  And I feel like each.
• 33:10
  Each generation that has happened, you know, my great grandfather, he had no idea about how to talk about his emotions.
• 33:18
  He was in World War II.
• 33:21
  You know, he's conning food, he's sending.
• 33:23
  He's sending money back to Sicily.
• 33:26
  He's.
• 33:27
  He's not worried about this stuff, and I don't blame him for it.
• 33:31
  And then, you know, he taught my grandpa, got a little bit more sensitive, so he taught my dad a little bit more sensitivity.
• 33:38
  And I'm going to teach my son more.
• 33:41
  And so it's a slower process, unfortunately, but I do see the progress.
• 33:50
  It's baby steps, right?
• 33:52
  Little by little, it's baby steps.
• 33:54
  I mean, we only know what We've been taught.
• 33:57
  And sadly, a lot of men have grown up in households where this was not something you talked about, it's not something you do.
• 34:07
  And so to expect men to be experts in vulnerability and being sensitive and talking about their emotions, people have to be patient with them too, as they, as they learn about that.
• 34:24
  Yes.
• 34:24
  Oh, for sure, for sure.
• 34:26
  And, you know, it is a work in progress and in baby steps, like you're saying.
• 34:31
  Yeah, yeah, we're, we're all working on ourselves in some way or another, hopefully.
• 34:37
  Yes.
• 34:39
  And because you've been lucky enough now to find love again, which is amazing, are there things you're doing differently this time around or lessons that you learned, you know, that have sort of changed the way that you are,
• 34:53
  you know, acting in relationships?
• 34:55
  Romantic relationships.
• 34:58
  Yeah.
• 34:58
  It's really interesting because Jade and Mai's relationship, it's always been in this co parenting role, so we never had a part of our life where it was just her and I.
• 35:17
  And so that has been completely different.
• 35:21
  Is, is learning how to co parent with, with somebody else, you know, setting, setting the boundaries for our time, you know, ensuring that we're on the same page with how to raise James, finding time for ourselves as individuals
• 35:39
  and just really appreciating the, the smaller things.
• 35:43
  And I think that's the beautiful part is, is at this stage in both of our lives, love really isn't expressed in these grand gestures, but it's more in inconsistency and it's more, and thoughtfulness, like knowing what somebody needs
• 36:00
  before they ask for it, being a step ahead of them to, to make their day easier or make them feel like you're always thinking about them.
• 36:10
  It doesn't have to be something incredibly grand.
• 36:14
  It could be a note on the, on the nightstand.
• 36:16
  It could be, hey, I'm, you know, I know you had this plan, so I got this for you ahead of time.
• 36:23
  And it's that kind of simplicity that I think we both would agree that carries the most meaning.
• 36:30
  When did you know that she was special?
• 36:32
  Like, when did you know that this relationship was going to go the distance?
• 36:36
  Oh, geez.
• 36:39
  I would say about two years ago.
• 36:44
  About two years ago.
• 36:45
  It was one of those things where, I mean, we had been friends before, but she lived in California and so just I'm in Ohio.
• 36:53
  So logistically it was like, what's the point of dating anybody across the country?
• 36:58
  She had a full job there and I have a son in, in public school.
• 37:04
  So where it was like, they're not leaving and, and so it was about two years ago, I was out in LA and.
• 37:12
  And I saw her again and we established just a great friendship before.
• 37:17
  And then I just looked at her in a totally different light.
• 37:20
  And I'm somebody, I'm somebody that just believes that God exists in the gut.
• 37:28
  Where your gut, your gut instinct is, is it's a unique feeling that, where it just is like, there it is.
• 37:37
  And so on that trip, I told her I loved her.
• 37:41
  And I told her if, you know, if she loved me too, that that will make this work hell or high water.
• 37:50
  And it's been a beautiful story ever since.
• 37:53
  It's, it's really.
• 37:55
  I don't want to oversimplify it, but that's, that's really how it started was it was a friendship that went into commitment, that developed into trust and, and her taking a one way flight from California to Ohio to be
• 38:13
  a part of her family.
• 38:15
  Wow, that's amazing.
• 38:16
  So what was that like?
• 38:17
  What was it like acclimating her into your family and especially with your son?
• 38:23
  I, it was, it was tricky.
• 38:28
  Very, very tricky.
• 38:29
  There a lot of emotions, you know, I, there was.
• 38:35
  Her and James had to have a relationship.
• 38:38
  Me and James had to maintain ours.
• 38:40
  All three of us had to learn how to live as a family.
• 38:45
  And her and I needed to be able to carve out time so we could just date as a couple.
• 38:52
  So it was a, it was a lot of adjustments going on.
• 38:56
  But throughout all of that, I mean, overcoming all these obstacles, it just, it just brought us closer.
• 39:07
  And you know, when, when running or leaving difficult situations is not an option and you just eliminate the idea that things are conditional that you're going to love regardless and that it's safe.
• 39:25
  Then you just kind of get to work and you just.
• 39:28
  And you just kind of make sure that your people are taken care of, that you do as much as you can.
• 39:33
  It's time you got.
• 39:34
  And there's never enough time.
• 39:35
  And you screw up all the time and you beat yourself to death at night thinking you're a failure, all that stuff, but then you just wake up in the morning and try again.
• 39:44
  Yeah.
• 39:44
  That's all you can do, right?
• 39:45
  I mean, tomorrow's a new day, right?
• 39:49
  That's it.
• 39:50
  That's all we got.
• 39:51
  And throughout all of that, now we're in this period of our life where we're not having to deal with any of those growing pains anymore.
• 40:00
  Life is settled.
• 40:01
  Life is beautiful.
• 40:02
  And that's.
• 40:04
  I guess that's the whole point, is that no matter what hardship you are going through, whether that's grieving, whether or not that's not getting the job or relationship falling apart or getting the girl, but trying to figure out
• 40:18
  how to keep everyone happy.
• 40:20
  They're all seasons.
• 40:22
  And eventually.
• 40:25
  Eventually the.
• 40:27
  It goes away and it's.
• 40:29
  And there's light at the end of it.
• 40:31
  And that's really what the book where the Wild Heart Grows is.
• 40:35
  Is truthfully about, is.
• 40:37
  Is being able to endure those.
• 40:39
  Name the seasons.
• 40:41
  Recognize that you've.
• 40:43
  While this may feel new, you've been through one of these cycles before, and you've been able to overcome it on the other side.
• 40:52
  Yeah, that's a great lesson.
• 40:54
  And when your son is reading your book in 40 years, when he's in midlife, what do you want him to look back on and think of when he thinks of you?
• 41:06
  Like, is there something that through the book, you really want him to understand about who you are?
• 41:14
  Oh, geez.
• 41:15
  That's a wonderful question.
• 41:16
  How heartfelt, I would say.
• 41:20
  I would say that.
• 41:22
  That, you know, I tried my hardest, that this was my interpretation of all the things that I've gone through.
• 41:35
  And these aren't just stories that are in this book.
• 41:39
  I mean, this is why the book is an extremely intimate thing, is these are essentially conversations that he and I had that.
• 41:48
  That allowed us to make sense of our spirit past life and our.
• 41:53
  Our present life in our future.
• 41:56
  And so I always wanted to humanize myself to my son, not put my struggles onto him, but let him know that I struggle too, so that he doesn't feel alone when.
• 42:09
  Or awkward or that.
• 42:11
  That he's struggling and nobody else is.
• 42:14
  So I.
• 42:15
  You know, those are the kind of deep conversations that we've had since this book started.
• 42:20
  And they're memories in every page for me and.
• 42:24
  And they are for him too, because we.
• 42:26
  We still talk about them.
• 42:27
  We still read them at night.
• 42:29
  Oh, that's amazing.
• 42:30
  So you are putting the book into practice at home even now, you know, even though you've done the stories.
• 42:36
  That's really special.
• 42:37
  Yeah, that's really special.
• 42:40
  Yeah.
• 42:40
  Yeah, It's.
• 42:41
  It's.
• 42:41
  It's been a beautiful process.
• 42:43
  And now that it's out in the world, I hope.
• 42:45
  I hope people find whatever they're looking for in it.
• 42:50
  Yeah, we are.
• 42:51
  I feel like we're always searching, right?
• 42:53
  There's always something.
• 42:54
  There's.
• 42:55
  You know, we're out of the corner of our eye, we're.
• 42:57
  Or we're looking ahead.
• 42:59
  What are you looking for?
• 43:00
  What are you searching for?
• 43:04
  I think I found it, which is which is.
• 43:08
  Which is, you know, a beautiful woman to share my life with, with, with my son.
• 43:15
  A.
• 43:18
  A type of peace that I think is.
• 43:22
  Is greater than happiness because it has to do a lot more with acceptance of all the things I've been through and being.
• 43:30
  Of being okay with it and.
• 43:33
  And very excited about all the new chapters that are waiting for me on this second half of my life.
• 43:42
  Yeah, it's wild, right?
• 43:45
  We're in midlife, you know, like, it's crazy.
• 43:48
  I know in a lot of ways I still think of myself as, like, you know, like that young, 20, you know, something year old, and it's.
• 43:57
  It's wild, right?
• 43:59
  We'll never, never lose that.
• 44:00
  I mean, it's the same.
• 44:02
  Same with me.
• 44:02
  I mean, I.
• 44:04
  I skateboarded my whole life, and I still absolutely love it.
• 44:08
  And, you know, it's totally things where.
• 44:12
  Where we are who we are.
• 44:14
  And there every.
• 44:15
  You know, I was telling Jake the other day, I was like, adults are simply just children with responsibilities, and we want to get back to that child, and we shouldn't deny it.
• 44:30
  And so if you feel like you're at 18 mentally and like, energetically embrace that, that's a beautiful thing.
• 44:37
  And I know people that would pay top dollar to be able to feel that.
• 44:41
  Yes, it's true.
• 44:42
  It's true.
• 44:43
  It's like we have so much.
• 44:44
  Like, we should be so appreciative of it.
• 44:47
  But you're right, it's like who we are is who we are.
• 44:49
  Like, be who we are.
• 44:51
  You know, I'm like, yeah, don't waste your time.
• 44:55
  Yeah.
• 44:56
  And don't waste your time.
• 44:57
  Like, like, don't give.
• 44:58
  Don't give air to things that drain you.
• 45:03
  Give your time to the things that you love.
• 45:06
  The beauty of being in midlife is that while we don't know what the future holds, we should have a much deeper understanding of who we are as people.
• 45:17
  By now, I.
• 45:19
  Looking back, I'm not sure if there's anything scarier than being a teenager where you're supposed to know what you want to do with your life.
• 45:28
  You.
• 45:29
  You don't know what your values are and your pillars and where you're going to live, who you're going to marry, who your friends are going to be.
• 45:37
  All of these questions are overwhelming.
• 45:40
  And at least at midlife for me right now, I know who I am.
• 45:43
  Like, I know what I value.
• 45:45
  I know where I want to spend the time.
• 45:47
  I know the people in my life.
• 45:49
  And so a lot of those questions are answered.
• 45:52
  And so that brings Me a lot of peace when I look back and have just a different perspective on it.
• 45:58
  Oh, absolutely.
• 45:59
  What advice would you give that teenager that you were just referring to the you of, like, you know, 25 years ago?
• 46:06
  Like, what.
• 46:07
  What advice would you give that guy?
• 46:10
  Oh, things are going to be okay.
• 46:15
  They're just.
• 46:16
  They're just.
• 46:16
  They're just going to be okay.
• 46:18
  They're not going to be clean, they're not going to be easy.
• 46:23
  You're going to question everything, but things will be okay.
• 46:27
  And they are.
• 46:30
  Yeah, they are.
• 46:31
  There's twists and turns, but in the end, you're going to be where you're meant to be.
• 46:35
  So how are you living iconically right now?
• 46:39
  Oh, iconic to me is the, the freedom and the peace that comes along with being yourself, creating what you want to create, leaving a piece of you in everything that you touch, spending time that matters most and not
• 47:06
  being scared of who you are and the things you can offer in the world.
• 47:13
  There's a type of confidence that, that comes with being mid.
• 47:18
  We don't.
• 47:19
  Do we say middle aged?
• 47:20
  Yeah, I mean, we can say that mid.
• 47:22
  Midlife sounds nice.
• 47:23
  Middle age sounds like washed up.
• 47:27
  So I, I understand why you chose that now.
• 47:29
  Right, right.
• 47:30
  Yeah.
• 47:33
  Yeah.
• 47:33
  I, I remember seeing cards for this when I was a kid.
• 47:36
  Like, you know, the big four zero.
• 47:40
  I.
• 47:40
  I would say.
• 47:41
  I would say there's a.
• 47:42
  There's just a beauty in, in knowing who you are and not being scared to be able to create the life that you want in.
• 47:51
  In Regardless of anybody's limitations and expectations.
• 47:55
  Ignore the noise and just go write your own story.
• 47:58
  Yeah.
• 47:59
  Yeah.
• 47:59
  That's such a great.
• 48:00
  That's, that's really great advice.
• 48:02
  Make it.
• 48:03
  Make a decision and stick with it.
• 48:05
  Loyalty is.
• 48:09
  I mean, if loyalty is the.
• 48:11
  A religion, then I, I go to church there every day.
• 48:16
  I swear.
• 48:17
  Loyalty is the most important attribute in, in how I value relationships.
• 48:23
  Not never questioning me or like falling in line.
• 48:27
  It's that obedience, but it's.
• 48:30
  But it's loyalty, as in always, always being there, being reliable, being consistent.
• 48:36
  And I think, I think that's necessary in order to live a simple and happy life.
• 48:45
  It's beautiful.
• 48:47
  If someone today is listening and they feel knocked down or not in a good place, what do you want them to know?
• 48:57
  Well, it's.
• 48:58
  It's what we talked about.
• 48:59
  This is a season.
• 49:01
  You have never felt happy your whole life.
• 49:06
  You have felt like you.
• 49:09
  At some point in your life, previous life, you have felt like you hit something insurmountable.
• 49:16
  You were Lost.
• 49:18
  You were looking for answers.
• 49:20
  You didn't feel that zest for life before.
• 49:24
  You wonder if it'll ever come back.
• 49:26
  And you want it to be easy, but it's not easy.
• 49:32
  But rest assured that it's temporary.
• 49:36
  That you will get on the other side of that.
• 49:38
  So you don't have to be perfect today or tomorrow or anything.
• 49:43
  What you have to do is do what's best for you.
• 49:47
  Take time to heal.
• 49:49
  Get a plan together without over planning and have faith that it's not going to last.
• 49:55
  Yeah.
• 49:55
  It's temporary, right?
• 49:57
  It's temporary.
• 49:58
  All things.
• 49:59
  All things are temporary.
• 50:00
  Yes.
• 50:01
  Yeah.
• 50:01
  You're not.
• 50:02
  You're not going to live in this storm forever.
• 50:04
  It'll.
• 50:04
  It'll.
• 50:05
  It'll pass you by.
• 50:06
  And then once it does, you'll look back and say, damn, why did I waste so much time.
• 50:11
  Yeah.
• 50:11
  Yeah.
• 50:12
  Worrying about it?
• 50:13
  Yes.
• 50:14
  Because some.
• 50:14
  Some things require you to fix it, but most things end up fixing themselves.
• 50:21
  It's true.
• 50:22
  It's absolutely true.
• 50:23
  And now that you're in this beautiful and amazing place, what is next for you?
• 50:28
  You have this beautiful book that's coming out, which is going to be amazing.
• 50:32
  And.
• 50:33
  And what?
• 50:34
  Absolutely.
• 50:34
  What.
• 50:35
  What does the next plan look like?
• 50:37
  What.
• 50:37
  What does it look like coming down the pipeline?
• 50:40
  Oh, well, I would say it's.
• 50:43
  It's more memories, more.
• 50:46
  More fun, more life, more verse.
• 50:51
  You know, maybe we'll get to that ring.
• 50:54
  Okay.
• 50:56
  Maybe.
• 50:57
  Maybe.
• 50:57
  We'll see.
• 50:58
  You are open to getting married again?
• 51:01
  Absolutely.
• 51:02
  I mean, I get this.
• 51:04
  I get this question and it's interesting because to me it's just simple.
• 51:10
  If I had a wonderful marriage before, why wouldn't I want one?
• 51:13
  Gadget?
• 51:14
  Yeah, that's my experience.
• 51:16
  Marriage is great.
• 51:18
  It is.
• 51:19
  It's wonderful.
• 51:21
  So like.
• 51:22
  Like why wouldn't I want that again?
• 51:24
  And I think that that will be on our.
• 51:29
  On our horizon.
• 51:30
  Coming.
• 51:31
  I don't have a time frame or anything like that.
• 51:33
  Like when it.
• 51:34
  What day?
• 51:34
  What.
• 51:35
  What are you gonna do?
• 51:35
  Yeah, right where.
• 51:36
  Yeah, but it's going on.
• 51:38
  How you doing it?
• 51:39
  But.
• 51:40
  Yeah, but I don't think either of us are.
• 51:44
  Would ever have dove this hard if that wasn't the end goal.
• 51:48
  And I am.
• 51:49
  I'm excited.
• 51:51
  I'm really, really excited to get there.
• 51:52
  And she's.
• 51:54
  She deserves everything.
• 51:55
  That's so sweet.
• 51:56
  Would it be televised?
• 51:58
  The proposal or the wedding?
• 51:59
  Oh.
• 52:00
  Oh, I don't know.
• 52:01
  I really didn't think about that yet.
• 52:03
  But I know that that's.
• 52:05
  That's an option.
• 52:05
  Probably not.
• 52:08
  Like Keep it a little private.
• 52:10
  Yeah, I think.
• 52:11
  I think privacy is okay with me.
• 52:13
  You know, I think.
• 52:15
  I think when you open up your entire world, you welcome in, you know, opinions and stuff for people that have no idea who you are.
• 52:25
  Right.
• 52:27
  And what you're about.
• 52:28
  So, yeah, I think we keep those gates close.
• 52:30
  Is nice.
• 52:31
  Would you be open to having more children?
• 52:35
  I would say we are happy right now with James and I.
• 52:41
  We.
• 52:42
  I don't imagine that changing.
• 52:44
  I also am under.
• 52:48
  I understand that plans don't always go the way you think.
• 52:55
  And I.
• 52:55
  I leave.
• 52:56
  I leave room in that for growth.
• 52:58
  I mean, the most important part for me is that I found the woman I love, and she loves my son as much as I do.
• 53:09
  That's.
• 53:09
  That's.
• 53:10
  And he deserves that.
• 53:12
  Yeah, he deserves that.
• 53:13
  She deserves that.
• 53:14
  I deserve it.
• 53:15
  And we're in a.
• 53:17
  We're in a good season of life.
• 53:19
  That's so beautiful.
• 53:20
  Oh, my gosh.
• 53:21
  Well, Michael, thank you so much for chatting with us on the iconic Midlife Today.
• 53:25
  Today.
• 53:25
  It's been amazing.
• 53:27
  Thank you, Roxy.
• 53:28
  I appreciate it.
• 53:29
  And your questions are wonderful.
• 53:31
  Keep doing you.
• 53:32
  Thank you.
• 53:33
  Oh, my gosh.
• 53:33
  Thank you.
• 53:34
  That is so special.
• 53:35
  Please tell everybody where they can get the book, and, of course, where they can find you.
• 53:41
  Well, you can get the book where the Wild Heart Grows.
• 53:44
  Here's a copy of it right here.
• 53:47
  You can get it@thewildheartgrows.com and if you want to follow me on Instagram, it's Michael Alio L4, and tons of this life advice stuff going on with kids.
• 54:01
  You guys can watch my whole life unfold on there.
• 54:04
  But I appreciate everything you're about, Roxy, and thank you.
• 54:07
  Thanks for having me on.
• 54:08
  Oh, my gosh.
• 54:09
  Thank you so much.
• 54:09
  And everybody, go follow Michael.
• 54:11
  He has great advice.
• 54:13
  We're all in the parental trenches together, so I'm sure you'll glean some amazing information.
• 54:20
  Um, and I just.
• 54:21
  Thank you so much, Michael.
• 54:22
  It's so great.
• 54:23
  Thank you.
• 54:24
  And don't forget, you're a cool mom to me.
• 54:27
  Thank you.
• 54:28
  That just made my day, because I never hear that.
• 54:32
  Yeah, you need to hear that.
• 54:34
  You are.
• 54:34
  You're cooler than other moms in that line.
• 54:37
  Thank you.
• 54:39
  Yeah.
• 54:39
  Never lose your spark.
• 54:41
  Thank you.
• 54:42
  I will take that, and I will run with it.
• 54:45
  Exactly.
• 54:46
  Oh, amazing.
• 54:47
  Well, I hope you have such a great day, Michael.
• 54:50
  It's been amazing.
• 54:51
  Michael, thank you so much for sharing your heart with us today.
• 54:55
  Your willingness to talk openly about grief, healing, fatherhood, and hope is a gift.
• 55:00
  And I know your story is going to resonate with so many people who are navigating their own next chapter.
• 55:06
  If you'd like to learn more about Michael or pick up a copy of where the Wild Heart Grows, we'll have all of his information linked in the show notes and if today's conversation meant something to you, I'd love
• 55:18
  for you to share this episode with someone who could use a little hope right now.
• 55:23
  Those personal recommendations are one of the biggest ways this community continues to grow.
• 55:29
  Be sure to subscribe to the Iconic Midlife wherever you listen to podcasts.
• 55:34
  Leave a review if you enjoyed today's episode and follow me on social media, edcarpetroxy and at the Iconic Midlife for behind the scenes moments, exclusive content and clips from each episode.
• 55:48
  Until next time.
• 55:49
  Remember, midlife isn't the beginning of the end, it's the beginning of becoming exactly who you were meant to be.
• 55:56
  I'll see you on the next episode of the Iconic Midlife.