Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #284: Chauntiel Smith-Jones-Indiana Tech/Capture Sports Agency

Transcript

#284: Chauntiel Smith-Jones-Indiana Tech/Capture Sports Agency · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:10
Track and Field World Q&L tuned in to a humble servant, Mike
0:14
Cunningham, for another extraordinary message for Gil
0:18
Athletics Connections. All right, welcome back here to
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the Gil Athletics Connections Podcast.
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You know, I don't know if I expressed it enough how much fun
0:27
I have as this part of my job. It really is one of the top
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things that I get to do here for Gil Athletics.
0:33
And I guess I didn't even introduce myself for you guys
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and gals that are listening for the first time, Mike Cunningham,
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I'm your host here on the Gil Athletics Track and Field
0:40
Connections podcast and I get to bring, here's the cool part of
0:44
my job. I get to bring you really cool,
0:46
interesting people around the country, sometimes around the
0:48
world here to the podcast and uplift and honor their journey
0:53
in this great profession. You know, something that we have
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learned as we're, you know, we're getting close to 300
0:58
episodes is that there is no air quotes here, normal,
1:02
traditional, whatever word you want to put in there track to
1:06
get to where you are today as a coach.
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We've had some amazing stories of people that didn't even do
1:11
the sport. Other people have been amazing
1:13
athletes at the sport and then everything in between.
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And so I just love, love, love learning that journey.
1:20
And today I got a really cool one too.
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You know, this is this is someone I've had on my list for
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a while because there's some interesting aspects.
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She she coaches track and field. So that's that's cool.
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I love that. And then she has an agency, a
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sports agency. She's an agent for sports and
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that I don't know much about that.
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So I'm really interested in learning that.
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So help me welcome from Indiana Tech University.
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I almost said over in Indiana, but maybe you've already figured
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that part out. And also the, I think owner, I
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don't even want to assume, but maybe owner of Capture Swift's
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agency. She gave me the nod.
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Perfect. Help me welcome the wise, the
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wonderful Miss Chantil Smith. Chantil, how are you?
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I am doing great. How are you, Mike?
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I'm doing, man. You know what?
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No one ever asked me, Chantil, thank you so much.
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I am doing fantastic. Yeah, we're recording this on a
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Friday, so that's cool. I'm a big college football fan,
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so I'm excited about tomorrow and yesterday.
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I don't know if you caught it. Did you catch any of the, I
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think it's pronounced Athos, the meat that was up in New York
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City. Did you get to check out any of
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that? I did not see that one.
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I was actually training an athlete last night, so I didn't
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see that one. I don't have that excuse.
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I honestly, and this is terrible coming from a track guy.
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I forgot I had, I had bookmarked the tweet because I think the
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meat was like, I don't know if you'd call it multicast
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simulcast on like Twitter, YouTube and probably maybe
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Instagram or something like that.
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And I thought that was kind of cool.
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And so I was like, oh, I'll watch it on Twitter when I'm at
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the house down in the basement. And literally I came up to grab
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dinner, I don't know, around 8:00 and I was like, oh, crud.
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It's like I totally forgot. Now my saving grace was like,
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well, I'll, I'll see everything on Twitter because I know
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everybody will post on Twitter, but have you seen any of the
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reactions or anything? Do you know anything about what
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went down? I have not.
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I haven't looked at anything yet.
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Supposedly amazing. Yeah.
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I mean, you know, I think they had six races obviously focused
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on women, focused on track, not field events, things like that.
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But there seems to be like, like a lot of positivity.
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I'm not hearing, you know, you know, we can be our worst enemy,
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track and track people and athletes and coaches.
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So I kind of expected a little bit of like, oh, well, they
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didn't do this and they didn't do that and blah, blah, blah.
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I'm not really hearing that. So kind of cool.
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Yeah. I'm excited.
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Alexis, I think is how you pronounce his name, One of the
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few men who's known better as their wives husband.
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So Williams is the Serena Williams husband.
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That's who Alexis is. So it's cool.
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I love that they're investing in our sport first and foremost,
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and I'm excited to see the future of that.
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Well, I'm excited to see not. I am excited to see your future,
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but I'm excited to learn your past here.
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So Chante, let's hop into it. Why don't we start with, you
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know, somewhere track had to come into your life maybe.
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You know, we've had people who were, you know, youth track
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athletes from like six years old to people who said, yeah, I
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didn't even do it until college. What about you?
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Where does track and field start for you So.
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I didn't start running track and tall my freshman year in high
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school. So I was a basketball head,
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still is a basketball head. So basketball was my first sport
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and then it was track. So when I was in high school,
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basketball season was over and there was nothing else to do.
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And then one of my close friends at the time was like, you know,
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you should try track. And I'm like, what is track?
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I don't know what that is. So then I go out for it actually
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start being really good at it. Didn't really know what was
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going on in track. I jogged at 200 like, you know,
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now that I that I'm coaching it, it's like guys, we're not we're
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not jogging the 1st 30 and then. Trying to.
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Oh Lord yeah. Exactly what I did in high
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school, because I didn't know anything about what was going on
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in my mind. I got to save my energy.
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But yeah, I ran everything from the 100 to the 204 by 1/4, by
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fours, all the little Sprint relays, all that stuff.
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I'm in high school, but like I said, we got really good at it
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in high school. Went to state my junior and
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senior year, finished fifth my junior year, and I think I
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finished 7th or 11th my senior year, both in the 400.
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So went 5673 maybe. Yeah, my junior year in high
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school. And that was like only with
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three years of of running track. Where where Where you growing up
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at? Where's this taking?
5:45
Place Fort Wayne, IN. Yeah.
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Oh, so. OK, that's cool.
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And So what, if you don't mind me asking?
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Like what years? I think my my junior year was
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2010. Oh, OK, so I used to coach at
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Ball State University back. Yeah, so back in the O2 and O3
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seasons. So, you know, that tells you how
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old I am. Chanteva.
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It's not really nice, but but used to go obviously for many,
6:09
many reasons, go to Fort Wayne for recruiting because oh boy,
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what a hotbed of track and field up there in Northeast Indiana
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for sure there. So you grew up kind of a
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basketball first basketball first love type thing and you
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did track. Do you remember it?
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It doesn't sound like necessarily like, Oh, my
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freshman year after basketball, I joined track and like, oh, I
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fell in love. But maybe somewhere in high
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school. Was there ever like a, a, a
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flipping point where it's like, oh boy, I'm, I'm actually a, a
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track track athlete, not a basketball athlete.
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Or did you keep basketball love and like track kept as your
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second sport? So I think basketball stayed my
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first love, but I, I also tell people all the time that in high
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school I wanted to go play in the WNBA and that was like, that
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was the goal. I didn't care what was
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happening. I'm like, I'm going to the WNBA.
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And then it was like, OK, you're really not going.
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So it was like, so it was like, alright, what's what's next?
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So it didn't really click or nothing like really switched for
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track until I went to state and I'm like, oh, OK, then I'm
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actually OK. I guess I'm decent at this if
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I'm going to state, but it really wasn't something that I
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was like, yes, track, let's get out there and run for a living.
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That's very Yeah, well, there's a lot of people who don't have
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that, that's for sure. And and you know, Heather, my
7:34
figure are you guys and gals that are listening when she
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talks about going to state and that's, you know, I'm a guy that
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does not believe whether whether you're in a small state, big
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state, seven classes, one class. I don't believe all that is
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awesome. Like you, you can't control
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where you live and all those kind of things.
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So if a kid makes it to state bravo that's amazing.
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If they make it to the finals, holy cow that's amazing.
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Don't forget the Indiana is a little special.
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First of all, it is a great track state, but it's one class.
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So when you're thinking about, you know, where you know, going
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to state and like oh that's cool, but maybe there's eight
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classes or something like that. There is one shot to go to
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Indiana. We learned that when we did our
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outdoor track and field state meet series where we interviewed
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1 coach from every state about their state meet series and had
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a fantastic time learning about Indiana and how tough it is.
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It as a guy who used to coach in the state, I used to love going
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to that state meet because it's 1 and up.
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Boy, here comes the 100. All right, you get the 8 best
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100 meter runners or the 400. It's it's pretty, pretty
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phenomenal. So let's go senior year.
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You had success your junior year, you know, you, you're all
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state, you make it to the finals and run a really good time,
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things like that. You, you played basketball your
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senior year. So basketball still first love
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and that's all good. What are you thinking about
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college not only like, well, you got kind of three things that I
8:52
want to discuss. Were you thinking basketball or
8:55
track or both for college? What were you thinking about
9:00
majoring in in and what were you thinking like as a career at
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this point? Yeah.
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So I think for me, because of what I didn't know, I think my
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senior, that's when I actually started to apply to colleges.
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But at the same time, like I tell all the athletes now, I
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didn't know anything about visiting these schools.
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At the same time, me and my family didn't have the finances
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to go and visit these schools either.
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So I knew nothing about visiting these schools.
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I didn't talk to any schools. I didn't sign with Indiana Tech
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to run until July or August 'cause I I didn't know the
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process at all. But but.
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You were hold on now. You were getting recruited
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though. I think so because you said he
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ran. You know, 50, even 57 in around
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2010, I coached at Ball State in O2 O3 and we were solid.
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So it's not like, you know, I I was out trying to get 65 second
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girls because I'm trying to build a program.
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We had a great program and I was recruiting, especially as a
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junior mark 5657, you know, in that range.
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I'm recruiting that at Ball State.
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But but not but but I'm not hearing you say not to where you
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were cognizant. Like I'm trying to think how to
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put this like in today, 2024. Boy, I can watch a kids
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recruitment on Twitter, like all the whole process.
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You know, I see when a letter gets sent and you know,
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everything's so publicized. Yep, it was a little different.
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You know, where it's this is a time frame back.
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It's not like it was today. So just not the same kind of I
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guess intensity or depth in your experience, what you
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experienced? Yeah, for sure.
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So I really wasn't on social media like that, wasn't on the
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Myspaces and stuff like that. So.
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Oh, Myspace. Yeah, you.
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Ain't that old to know Myspace? Get out of here.
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I'm old enough, Mike, But yeah, I don't think that I was, like I
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said, I don't, I don't know how this was back then, but I don't
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think I was able to be found that way or something like that.
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But yeah, I went 5673. Like I got a few offers from, I
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think it was maybe like AD 2 school Wheaton I think maybe and
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I think I maybe had one other one.
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But at the same time, like I said, didn't have the finances
11:14
to go visit. Didn't really know what the
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process was because I was the first person to even attempt to
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go to College in my family. So didn't really know what that
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was, I think. That's it's interesting, we used
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to this is my experience. We used to talk about potential
11:30
first time college. I'm a first time college kid in
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my family as well. And you know how much of A
11:35
disadvantage that person is not be necessarily because of
11:38
finances and stuff, although maybe typically that is also
11:41
part of it too, but just culture, right?
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Like like my wife and I, we have two kids, 8th grader and 5th
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grader. We both went to college.
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We have talked about college, not necessarily them going or
11:53
anything, but like, you know, oh, we went to college, you
11:54
know, and my wife went to University of Illinois right
11:56
here. So, you know, my wife has walked
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our kids around campus and like, oh, I lived in that place.
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Like it, it's part of our culture.
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We just, you know, we went to college and if it's right for
12:04
you, we expect you to go. But they know about it from
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today. Me and maybe Chantelle, you have
12:10
similar experience. My family, we didn't talk about,
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the only college we talked about was Saturday football.
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And yeah, I certainly wasn't going to play football in
12:17
college. So it it wasn't like, oh, I go
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to school at these places that I'm watching.
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It was just, I don't know, it was just like this thing over
12:24
there and you just didn't discuss.
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And I'm not sure we still talk about it that way or concerned
12:30
about it that way today in 2024. And here we are back in, you
12:33
know, earlier than that where it's like, man, there's kids
12:35
that are highly capable, but because it's not in their
12:38
culture, it gets lost for them. That's it.
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So it was knowing that Indiana Tech is in Fort Wayne and you
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said you spoiler alert, you ended up going to school there.
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I'm going to ask you this way, but I think you're going to
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correct me. Was Indiana Tech your safety
12:54
school? But maybe not because you
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weren't even. I didn't even I didn't even know
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that tech was recruiting me until like last minute.
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I think I I only got an e-mail maybe from Edgar and it was
13:06
like, you know, we're we're trying to get you or something.
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I was like, I mean, I guess right, Have this meeting or
13:13
whatever. So yeah, I didn't, I didn't know
13:16
anything. Tech was not on my radar at all.
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If anything, I think the only school that I was really looking
13:21
at was I was trying to go to Richmond to run track there.
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And that was because that was like 3 of the schools I looked
13:28
at once. I actually started getting in
13:31
the process, but I was so late in the process, it was like, oh,
13:35
well, so I didn't know. And then Indiana Tech ended up
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being, you know, that last resort.
13:41
And I'm just hearing track, no basketball recruiting.
13:44
Nope. Yeah.
13:47
Which that's, you know, I always think about like the basketballs
13:50
and footballs and stuff like that, like how hard dur it must
13:55
be to recruit. Because with track, like I know
13:58
you want to know about their, you know, their mentality and
14:01
leadership and things like that. And you know, are they good
14:03
people? And, and I know to a degree you
14:06
want to see their body type, are they tall and you know that kind
14:08
of stuff. But if you just wanted to
14:11
recruit off of times, you could, right?
14:14
The the 100 meter dash in Fort Wayne is the same 100 meter dash
14:17
in Texas as it is in Sarasota, FL, LA, California, whatever,
14:21
right. So if you're, if you're running
14:22
11/3 in high school, boy, I can if I'd even if I don't get you
14:26
better, you go run 11/3 for me. I should assume, right?
14:29
Basketball is tougher. I mean, you could have a kid
14:30
that's, you know, a superstar, but you know, maybe she's 6 foot
14:34
and everybody else is 5/3 and it's like, well, of course she
14:37
averages 30 points and but she ain't gonna do that in my
14:39
league. You know, it's just going to be
14:40
that would be tougher or something.
14:42
So OK, you end up choosing Indiana Tech.
14:46
What were you thinking? Where's your head at this point
14:49
in regards to I want to become a teacher, a doctor, business
14:53
owner? What are you thinking career
14:55
wise as an 18 year old? I had no idea.
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I think I just chose sports management because I've been in
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sports all my life, so I didn't. I didn't know no other way to go
15:05
but to choose sports management when I made my decision.
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Did You Know what that meant? Or was it just like, oh, it's it
15:13
has the word sport in it. I like sport.
15:16
That's that's what it was exactly what it was like.
15:19
I'll figure out what the management part is, but it's
15:21
going to have sports, so yeah, makes sense.
15:23
Makes sense. Is coaching at all in your
15:28
thought process? That was never a thing.
15:33
Like never a thing like you didn't even think because it
15:36
what I've been amazed, you know, in the 1st 100 episodes that
15:39
we've had here, it's been amazing to me how many people
15:43
now I expect it, but how many people as you know, 1418 year
15:46
olds who you know, we know become track coaches, have a
15:50
great relationship with their high school track coach.
15:52
But never think of it as a career career when it's right in
15:55
front of you. It's like, well, that guy or gal
15:57
right there is coaching, like they're getting paid.
15:59
I remember, I can't remember what coach it was, but when
16:00
coach was like, I just thought like, my coach just came out to
16:03
have fun. Like, I didn't know that was
16:04
like a career. Like they got paid.
16:05
It's like, yeah, it's the whole thing, man.
16:07
It's the whole thing. All right, so you start Indiana
16:10
Tech now. This is a whole different world
16:11
now, right? So you start practice early.
16:14
You know, you hadn't done track, you've been doing basketball,
16:16
things like that, classes you're taking sports management.
16:19
Talk to us about your college time there at Indiana Tech.
16:23
Well, it was actually pretty fun.
16:25
It was definitely a change. And I think I tell, I even tell
16:30
my athletes just now is that you have to be able to adjust.
16:34
And I think my first year I didn't adjust well.
16:40
Like I was so used to doing things the way we did it in high
16:43
school where I was just like, remember why I told you the
16:46
$200? You know, I was jogging the
16:48
first couple meters and then I would start sprinting in high
16:52
school. I thought that was OK, you go to
16:55
college and you're like, that's not OK.
16:56
That's not OK at all because all these athletes are here.
17:00
They're here for a reason. They got recruited for a reason
17:03
and they actually run. So you have to adjust to that.
17:06
And then you also had to adjust to the workout because I mean,
17:10
we would have in high school, I think we were having like a
17:13
repeat 200 and we had like 15 of those.
17:16
And it was just like, OK, And we didn't list either.
17:21
So now you get to college and now you're on a lifting schedule
17:25
and now you have to get used to the workouts and, and having
17:29
classes and doing your homework without a parent or a teacher
17:33
saying, Hey, you got this due and stuff like that.
17:36
So it's a, it's a huge adjustment or was a huge
17:38
adjustment for me. I think that helps me be able to
17:42
mentor to the, the freshmen that do come in and stuff like that.
17:45
So that part. Did you struggle with it?
17:48
Because it is a you're spot on here.
17:50
It is a major difference. There's so many more
17:54
expectations of you. And while you certainly have
17:57
support now, yeah, you're in the same town, Are you living at
18:01
home or you living on campus right off the bat?
18:03
At first, the first year I stayed on campus and then I was
18:07
at home, Yeah. So that first year, you know,
18:10
you said it right, your mom or dad or family, no one's over
18:13
your shoulder to do homework or anything like that.
18:16
Did you struggle at first or did you like fish and water?
18:19
Take to it like, Oh yeah, this, this is me.
18:21
I'm good. At first, not really only
18:25
because I knew that if I, if I didn't do well, that it was
18:29
going to be problems at home. And then also if I didn't do
18:33
well, I knew that I wasn't going to be able to run either.
18:37
So if I, if I didn't do what I was supposed to do in the
18:40
classroom, it was going to be a waste of time.
18:42
So, and we also had study table hours too.
18:45
So I made sure that I was, you know, in the study table hours
18:47
and trying to get as much help as I could.
18:51
Now it's interesting how you said that about like IA little
18:54
bit of paraphrasing here. I knew if I didn't study, I
18:57
couldn't run track. You know, if I didn't do well in
18:59
the grades, I didn't run track. That means you cared about track
19:02
and and and you haven't expressed that you didn't care
19:04
about track. But up to this point, it's
19:05
certainly been basketball. First is is track now that you
19:10
like as you're transitioning from senior year track through
19:13
summer into fall. Now basketball's kind of taking
19:16
a side, you know, you're not playing basketball anything as
19:18
heck. You start practice and things
19:20
like that. Is track starting to move up in
19:22
importance or do you still have like a left eye over like man
19:25
did? Like, like did you go to
19:26
basketball practice and just watch?
19:28
Like, damn, why can't I be on this team?
19:30
Where where are we at? Track.
19:31
Basketball. It's it's still basketball was
19:38
still a little bit higher and I think that probably was a part
19:41
of the adjustment too, because you start fall.
19:45
That's pre season for track when I really should be dribbling the
19:48
basketball. What not.
19:51
So for the I mean, even still Edgar's probably I mean he can't
19:54
do anything now, but I was definitely doing intramurals
20:01
while right. I was playing basketball in the
20:03
murals, but I wasn't doing it like.
20:05
Every I I think the statute of limitations of track people
20:09
playing basketball never ends. That's you're going to be in
20:11
trouble for that one. Every I mean, that's like the
20:13
bane of every track coach existence is basketball and
20:16
intramural basketball. Oh, I can't believe you admitted
20:18
you know we're recording right. I can't believe you admitted
20:21
that. Holy cow.
20:22
Wow, that's that's awesome. How about I I I think I'm like
20:27
want to double click into this because I'm interested because
20:29
of my own experience here too. How was as much as you want to
20:35
to talk and share with us here about this, how was the support
20:39
from family and friends group? And what I mean by that is this,
20:44
you know, being the 1st in the family to go to college.
20:46
Again, I talked about, you know, the family didn't have that
20:49
culture. It's not like maybe mom or dad
20:51
or uncles, aunts went to college necessarily.
20:53
And so they well, yeah, that's what Chantelle's doing.
20:55
That's what she expects. Not not necessarily that they
20:58
were like negative necessarily because that's kind of sometimes
21:01
that's more TV drama type stuff where you know, you should be
21:03
here back with but but maybe sometimes like I don't think my
21:07
parents knew how to support me really not not financially, just
21:11
mentally and talking to me. I didn't, you know, they didn't
21:14
know what I was going through because they had never done it.
21:16
How was support from family as you're going through the first
21:20
year of college there? So the first year it really
21:24
wasn't that bad, but it was a lot of you got to call us more,
21:28
you got to, you got to call us more, you know, and I'm like,
21:32
listen guys, the phone works both ways here and I'm doing
21:36
practice, I have classes, I'm in this college world now.
21:40
You know, I'm trying to live a little, not doing anything
21:42
crazy, but I'm just trying to live a little.
21:45
So I think that was the only thing that I had to do with my
21:47
freshman year was, was a lot of just, you know, we need you to,
21:52
you know, come back home and you need to call more and, and all
21:54
those other types of stuff. So I had to I had to figure out
21:56
what that adjustment was. Yeah, I, I that makes a lot of
22:00
sense. And you're even in the same
22:01
town, so a little bit easier in that sense.
22:04
I, you know, these kids that go away even couple hours, I mean,
22:08
you know, some don't have car. I mean, that's tough.
22:11
And then for crying out loud, the ones that go states away.
22:13
I'm just always concerned about that support system around.
22:16
Did you start finding like a you know, air quotes here family at
22:21
Indiana Tech? Like did the the team members
22:23
attract? Or maybe you know a roommate or
22:26
you know, classmate? We all you know, we always talk
22:28
about athletes and like, oh, did your team become family?
22:32
It's like, you know, you're going to school with 1000 other
22:34
people like English class with a bunch of non athletes too
22:36
sometimes. Did you start finding the
22:38
family? Yeah.
22:39
So I think within like that first day, I think it was, I
22:44
think it was during move in day and one of the student life
22:47
people at the time, who's a really good friend of mine,
22:49
Darius Darling was the one who was going around introducing,
22:53
you know, some of the freshmen to all the people.
22:56
And we ended up all connecting and we've been friends ever
22:59
since. Like we're still friends since
23:00
this day. We've been in each other's
23:02
weddings. We've been to big parts of every
23:06
event that's happening in our lives and stuff like that.
23:07
So ever since day one, like that's been our friend group and
23:11
it's basketball players. It's engineers everything like
23:16
that. So it it, it was pretty good to
23:18
find that group early. I hate that we have to pay for
23:21
that, but to me, that's one of the most valuable parts of
23:23
college. You know, we have to pay for,
23:25
you know, to go to the school. But I, I, I remember someone, I
23:28
think it was when I was in high school, my high school football
23:30
coach was like, look around and you know, he's like, these will
23:33
be the friends of yours forever. And I, you know, now I look
23:36
back, you know, I gradu, I graduated in 94, so 3030 years
23:40
ago. And I'm like, bro, I talked to
23:41
like one my best best friend from high school I talked to,
23:45
that's it. But from college, I talked to a
23:48
good handful. And I'm a somebody who doesn't
23:50
really have a lot of deep friendships for moving around
23:53
all that much. But college I have way more
23:55
because I went through more, I think in the 18 to 22 year
23:58
range, you know, All right, so talk to us about Indiana Tech as
24:02
an undergrad. You're, you're going to school,
24:03
you're running track, you're learning that, oh, I can't jog
24:06
to conserve air. Definitely air quotes conserve
24:09
my energy. Talk to us about your college
24:11
athletic experience. So freshman year, I think that
24:18
was like I said, the hardest year, that was the year I had to
24:20
adjust. Sophomore year a lot more was
24:23
acts of me. So I had to step up a little
24:26
bit, I think, I think my freshman year I ended up going
24:29
to nationals, both indoor and outdoor.
24:32
I think I was an alternate for the 4 by 4.
24:36
The crazy part is that really killed me.
24:40
My freshman year. I went from running a 56 to
24:45
running a 59 and I couldn't understand for the life of me
24:49
what was going on. Yeah.
24:51
But now I know because the adjustment I wasn't, I wasn't
24:54
bought in and I wasn't adjusting at the same time.
24:57
So. Talk, talk to us a little bit
24:59
more about that because you know, one of my favorite things
25:02
to do, I almost called the podcast instead of connections.
25:05
I almost called it myth Busters. I like busting myths.
25:08
One of my favorite myths that we talk about a lot is that high
25:10
school coaches can't coach in college.
25:12
What a terrible, terrible myth. But another that I believe is a
25:15
myth is, you know, on Twitter World, we'll talk a lot about
25:19
how, oh, I think someone used the, the, the actual percentage
25:23
of 80% once and I called them out like really show me stats
25:25
like 80 percent, 80% of high schoolers don't improve in
25:29
college. And that's just bunk.
25:31
There are some sure you in your freshman year, you go from 56 to
25:36
59. If we were to look at you on
25:39
paper, 56 point out of high school basketball.
25:44
So she didn't focus on track, didn't lift during high school,
25:49
so obviously didn't have a fall track season for us.
25:53
Didn't really even miss necessarily have like an expect
25:55
like a internal drive of like, I'm going to run track, you
25:58
know? So like you're like this really
26:00
raw athlete running to six point, by the way.
26:05
Oh, get her to college. Oh my gosh, let her start
26:08
training in the fall. Get rid of as much of basketball
26:12
as possible. Lift weights, you know, in a, a
26:17
program that has a culture of we, we talk about nationals and
26:20
things like that. Oh man, she's going to run.
26:22
I mean, maybe a bad year, she's going to run 55, but she might
26:26
run 54. You know, and you're not running
26:28
59 And you talked about you, you, you didn't buy in things
26:32
like that. Talk to us like why looking back
26:34
now? Because we have experience now,
26:36
like, you know, we can hindsight's 2020, right?
26:39
What what do you think besides or maybe even going into more
26:43
about you didn't buy in because this we see this, I don't want
26:46
to say comment, but it does happen and we instantly blame
26:49
the college coach. Oh, they stink.
26:51
Look, they took her from 56 to 59.
26:53
It's like, oh man, that coach had nothing to do.
26:55
There's so many other things. Talk to us about that.
26:57
A. Little bit I just believe that
27:02
the reason why again I struggled that first year was because I
27:07
wasn't used to the practices. There were times where I may
27:12
have felt like, all right, maybe I shouldn't be here because all
27:15
these girls are kind of like crazy fast and I'm interesting.
27:19
And I think I I think I came in as the fastest 400 runner in my
27:23
class, but that that wasn't something that was like pushing
27:30
me to go forward. Like like you said, it wasn't
27:33
something that was driving me. I was just like, OK, I guess
27:36
that's cool. I don't, I don't know.
27:37
I don't do tracks like that. So I don't I don't know what's
27:41
cool and what's not cool. So I think me being there that
27:45
first year, there was a lot of cloudiness, like I didn't know
27:50
what was going on or anything like that.
27:52
So as I continuously went through the years, that's when I
27:57
I started to buy in and I got better.
27:59
I started to see my 200 time drop.
28:01
I think, I, I think I could, I could have went a lot faster in
28:05
high school, but again, I was jogging.
28:08
So it went from like a 27 in high school to a 25 one, you
28:15
know, in, in college. And I'm like, Oh, this is how it
28:19
feels actually, when I 200. And then I remember when I
28:23
qualified for my first nationals myself and I ended up getting, I
28:29
think I got 8 at nationals. Think I went 55 and then I think
28:36
I was splitting 54 on the relay and stuff like that.
28:39
So I was seeing the progress happening, which was I think
28:44
that's when things started to shift in my career at tech for
28:49
the most part. And that started happening in
28:51
sophomore year. It was like, yeah, sophomore in
28:54
junior year, yeah. That's what I'm just amazed at
28:57
when people quickly point the finger at the college coach,
29:01
which is all ego, by the way, when someone's doing that in my
29:03
pen, bad ego, ego's not bad, bad ego's bad.
29:06
It's bad ego because you know, what you're describing.
29:09
They're very common, what you're describing and you're, you're
29:13
even kind of leaving some parts out.
29:14
And what I mean by that is college classes are different
29:17
than high school classes. Not only, you know, obviously
29:20
the intensity, but the scheduling is that, you know,
29:23
high school, it's very authoritarian, right?
29:26
You class, you know, school starts at 8, you don't leave
29:28
until 2:30 or whatever. You know, there is no in
29:30
between. There's lunch break, we're in
29:32
college. It's like, man, I got an 8:00
29:33
and then I don't have another class till one or something.
29:35
You know, what do I do? And obviously homework, things
29:37
like that. But there's also, well, you
29:41
know, when I'm a freshman, 18 year old and my friends want to
29:46
stay up till 1:00 in the morning doing whatever.
29:48
I'm not even saying even maybe those things maybe, you know,
29:51
legally not supposed to be doing just staying up to talk or play
29:53
board game, whatever. You don't necessarily have that
29:57
in high school. Mom says no, you got school
29:59
tomorrow, get in bed. You know, all these things are
30:02
happening. You got pressures from home.
30:04
Hey, how come you don't visit as much?
30:06
Why don't you call this you didn't have that in high school.
30:09
And by the way, you're at practice every day and you're
30:11
supposed to improve on that. It's just it's unfair to to
30:16
automatically label all this on the track coach.
30:19
It's just it's as you're going through so you're getting better
30:23
athletically. That's awesome.
30:24
That's always fun. Of course.
30:27
How about academically slash future career wise?
30:31
Are you starting to learn what sports management is and seeing
30:34
what the different routes that is and and talk to us about that
30:37
progression of what you're thinking career wise through
30:39
college? Yeah, so for the most part, I
30:42
had a really great advisor, Craig Dyer.
30:44
We're still really close to this day.
30:46
Went to go see him yesterday on campus but I learned a lot from
30:50
him as far as the sports management area and how that
30:54
goes. And I think my junior year is
30:57
when I still don't know how this even came about.
31:02
But somehow being a sports agent just fell in my life.
31:07
I don't know where it came from. I don't even know how I started
31:10
searching for the stuff to begin with.
31:12
It was still crazy to me to the day.
31:14
Like I still don't know how I even came up to even jump into
31:20
this career at all. Had no idea what it was.
31:22
You. Were going to list like a, hey,
31:25
you're going to get a sports manager degree, list 100
31:27
different jobs that you might do with a sports manager degree.
31:30
I'm not sure agency would come up until like #100 I mean,
31:33
there's a lot of, you know, a lot of things to do in college
31:35
level, a lot of things to do in high school level.
31:38
You know, here we're manufacturer of sports
31:40
equipment. So there's private sector type
31:41
stuff, agents, we might, Oh yeah, you know, around 80.
31:45
Oh yeah, maybe an agent, maybe, maybe, I don't know, you know,
31:48
so you still don't even know how that even like, but junior year
31:51
was like, oh, was it was junior year like, oh, that's what I'm
31:55
going to be. Or was it more of like, oh,
31:57
that's interesting. I think it was more so of a, oh,
32:02
that's interesting. And then I started again.
32:05
Craig Dyer told me that I need to get my LinkedIn together.
32:09
So started doing that. And then that's when I found
32:12
sports agents on LinkedIn. And I found a boxer by the name
32:18
of Adrian Clark, which we are still very close to this day.
32:21
And he's one of my biggest supporters.
32:23
And I found him and I was asked questions like, you know, hey,
32:26
I'm a junior, you know, what do I need to know?
32:30
Like, where do I need to go, what I need to tap into, stuff
32:33
like that. We were just talking and he was
32:35
telling me a whole bunch of stuff.
32:37
And then that's how I also got my internship at a small sports
32:41
agency down in Dallas. And I was doing that while still
32:44
running track. So I was running track and being
32:47
a player agent in college, doing all that all at once.
32:52
What? What's the because sports
32:56
agency, sports agency, sports agency to be a sport agent until
33:00
a lot of other things. I, I, I don't believe you can
33:02
just necessarily get a sports manager degree and boom, you can
33:05
be a player representative. Like, you know, there's a lot of
33:07
knowledge, experience, things like that when you're intern,
33:10
Like what's what, what, what are you doing as an intern?
33:12
Was this the, I'm gonna call it stereotypical, you know, TV
33:16
movie drama where it's like, oh, you know what I did my first
33:18
year, Mike, I got coffee for the guy and I just listened.
33:21
That's all I could do or would like, were you involved?
33:24
Like did they involve you? Like what what?
33:25
What does an internship look for?
33:27
Trying to be a sport? A sports agent?
33:29
So mine was different. So mine was virtual, and I think
33:32
that was a change in things because I was still running
33:36
while the sports agency was in Dallas.
33:40
So I was recruiting talent. So I was looking at athletes.
33:43
I was making player profiles, figuring out based off of the
33:47
athletes that they were looking at, I had to make a player
33:50
profile on, OK, this is who we're looking at.
33:53
You know, what's the stats, what type of person is this athlete
33:57
and stuff like that. I even put together AI think it
34:02
was a camp. I put a camp together for the
34:05
the agency, and the agency came actually to Fort Wayne and we
34:09
did a camp and everything else like that and wow, yeah.
34:14
I mean, that's interesting that they they allowed you and
34:17
supported you to do a Camp Fort Wayne because it's like, yeah,
34:19
you're the intern. Like, OK, maybe we'll do that
34:21
down here in Dallas. But that's a lot of
34:23
responsibility, a lot of trust, yeah.
34:26
It was, it was fun. I loved it for sure.
34:28
And it was basketball too. So I.
34:30
OK, I should have known. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:32
Do do do agents at this point in your knowledge set, you know,
34:37
junior going into senior year here, are you thinking sport?
34:43
And I don't know, we're going to get into here a little bit more
34:47
in a little bit. Are you thinking, oh, I want to
34:50
be a sports agent for basketball?
34:51
Like, you know, you had WNBA dreams.
34:53
It was like, oh, yeah, I want to be agent for for women's
34:55
basketball. Or was it track or was it
34:58
global? Like, oh, sport, I want to be a
35:00
sport agent. I don't care if they're boxers,
35:02
football, cricket. I don't care if there's, you
35:06
know, if they're getting a salary.
35:07
There's things that sports agents can do.
35:09
Yeah, so the crazy thing is my advisor put me in contact with a
35:15
law professor that was at Indiana Tech who used to be an
35:19
NFL agent. And I spoke with him and I
35:23
pretty much was telling him, you know, how I felt about being a
35:25
sports agent and why I wanted to be a sports agent in the 1st
35:27
place. And after I got done, he looked
35:30
at me. He said, I'm going to help you
35:33
because I can hear how passionate you are about this.
35:36
And he showed me pretty much the blueprint of it.
35:38
He he sat down, we looked at contracts.
35:41
He helped me register my own company.
35:43
He helped me understand contracts, everything like that.
35:47
And it was, I think that was the best part of it all.
35:51
And the crazy part is, believe it or not, I think I I went to
35:55
be a track and field agent first, but I didn't pass.
36:00
I didn't pass a test. I think I missed it by like 66
36:05
points. But The thing is, I went there
36:08
and I've seen so many of the the track and field athletes.
36:11
It was so crazy. Like it was Alex and Felix was
36:13
there, Doc Payton was there and it was just like, it was like,
36:17
yo, like this is pretty cool. I've never thought and and to
36:23
this day, like people be like, oh, do you know who this track
36:25
athlete is? I was like, no, but I can tell
36:26
you who this basketball player is like, and it's still like to
36:29
this day, like I'm still learning a lot of the track
36:32
athletes from back in the day and stuff like that.
36:34
But I think track was the first sport I tried to become an agent
36:39
in and I haven't won back since. I'm not saying I'm not going
36:43
back. I do plan on going back sooner
36:45
or later. You have to take a, it's a, is
36:47
it a, it's a specific test for each.
36:49
I'm gonna call it league. And, and for this case, USATF is
36:53
the league. But it's each like football has
36:56
its own requirement and test and basketball and things like that.
36:59
OK, All right. There's not like a general
37:02
sports agency test and accreditation.
37:04
It's each one has a little different nuances.
37:07
Yeah, and I think I took that test in my senior year.
37:09
So again, still don't know anything about track.
37:13
I know the bare minimum, but I know more about basketball.
37:16
And I was like, you know, I've ran track for eight years now.
37:19
Let's go, let's go See, you know what I can do Like this is this
37:23
should be easy. Like I, I, I do this right?
37:26
So I should be fine. They're like, yeah, open book,
37:29
50 questions. I got there.
37:31
I said, what is this? That was the fastest 2 hours
37:35
I've ever seen in my life. But many of great stories have
37:40
started with I was like, this has got to be easy.
37:45
Yeah, so I, I told myself I'm not going back until I'm
37:49
completely, 100% ready. And I get these tests meaning
37:55
like you're going to a sports agent is going to be in a lot in
37:58
a control of a lot of things for an athlete that the athlete will
38:01
not have control or not have time to have control over.
38:04
So you kind of want a little bit of a rigorous test to kind of
38:07
weed out. You don't necessarily weed out
38:09
bad people, but you at least weed out people who are going to
38:12
prepare necessarily for what it takes.
38:15
So as you go to senior year and graduation, I'm still not
38:20
hearing like, Oh yeah, and I want to be a coach.
38:22
Where where's coach sit in this really crazy where?
38:25
I mean, this is really interesting.
38:27
I say crazy in a good way. This is interesting.
38:29
Where's coaching at all at this point?
38:31
Nowhere, none. Not one bit.
38:36
Like I think by the time I graduate, my company was already
38:41
started like I had already started.
38:44
I started my company in December of my senior year and that was
38:49
with the help of the NFL agent because he helped me get it
38:52
registered with the state of Indiana and everything else like
38:56
that. He helped me put pretty much
38:57
everything together after that. So the company was already
39:02
established and everything like that before I had graduated
39:05
college. What was it?
39:06
Capture a sports agency from the jump, From the get go?
39:09
What? Why?
39:10
Why did you choose that? Honestly, I didn't choose it.
39:13
My mom did, Yeah. Hey, thanks, Mom.
39:16
That's great. Yeah.
39:17
So we had a list of names. Like once I told her, like, this
39:22
is what I wanted to do. Like, she was very excited about
39:24
it because, again, she didn't know.
39:26
I didn't know. We didn't know nothing about
39:27
being a sports agent. So I think having Dre there to
39:30
help guide and everything like that was perfect.
39:34
So he told me one day we were talking about, all right, you
39:36
got to come up with a name. And I'm like, OK, who just comes
39:41
up with names like this on the spot?
39:43
So I went home. Maybe my mom sat down and talked
39:45
about it. And she was like, you know, you
39:47
should do Chantel Smith management.
39:49
No, I. Was going to ask, does the CS?
39:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah. OK.
39:52
Keep going, keep going, keep going.
39:53
I was like, I don't want, I don't want my name any part of
39:56
this because and they have nothing to do with me.
39:58
I don't I don't want it to be centered around me.
40:00
I just want it to be able to focus on, you know, the athletes
40:03
at the end of the day. So she wanted my initials to be
40:07
in there. So somehow my initials is kind
40:10
of in there except the fact that I got married.
40:12
So now it's like Jones. So the CS is not like you know,
40:17
it's still there, but. You needed to marry somebody
40:20
whose last name started with an A.
40:21
That's where you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:24
Yeah. So when we were writing it down,
40:26
she came up with Capture Sports Agency and we looked at nothing.
40:29
I was like, yeah, I think, I think that's it.
40:31
I think that's the one. And then I took it to Dre and
40:35
then we, we put it in the computer and we, you know, you
40:37
have to figure out if anybody has those names at all, make
40:41
sure the website's available and stuff like that.
40:43
So we did all that. Nobody had it.
40:46
So it was it was green light for us.
40:49
What a what a cool example of, you know, in professional terms,
40:54
we might call it network. In more familial terms, we might
40:58
call it family and support network.
41:00
So mom's helping you with the name, Dre's helping you with the
41:05
things that sometimes we don't think about till 510 years into
41:08
the until it until it bites us and it's like, oh, I can't get a
41:11
website. Somebody has capture sports toys
41:14
or something, you know, they're a toy company and they call
41:16
them. So I can't get that in or five
41:20
years later, you get sued because it's like, yeah, you
41:22
stole my name. I I had that name registered 10
41:24
years ago and you didn't do your due diligence.
41:26
So I mean this that's a really cool example of, you know, the
41:29
quote UN quote. It takes a bit like we're not on
41:31
our own. We can't be in our own.
41:32
We're much better when we have other people going with us.
41:35
And I think those are two cool examples and bravo to mom, by
41:38
the way, being the creative one. I love that.
41:40
That's cool, that's cool, that's cool.
41:43
So you go you so you start in junior senior year with this
41:46
agency. So now this comes with this.
41:50
This sounds like a statement, but it comes with a question
41:52
mark. Now your identity is wrapped
41:54
into being a sports agent. Yeah.
41:56
Yeah, you graduate. What happens?
42:03
I graduate I which what do I do? First?
42:08
I applied for the WNBAI got I got registered certified with
42:12
the WNBA and then I got I think certified WNBA in October and
42:17
then I got certified with overseas basketball which is
42:20
FIFA in March. So those are my 2 that I focus
42:28
on the most. Around that time was both 2016
42:30
and 2017 is when I got registered as a agent with the
42:34
WNBA and overseas basketball. But at the same time, I tell
42:38
people this all the time. I knew nothing about being a
42:40
sports agent still after everything was with Dre.
42:44
Like he helped with the beginning part, but I didn't
42:48
know what happened in the middle.
42:49
I had no idea. I didn't even have a business
42:51
plan, so I was lost. So I'm still being a sports
42:58
agent, but now I'm working in a factory.
43:01
I think I was working in a factory for a while while still
43:03
being a sports agent. And then I realized what do.
43:05
You mean working in a factory? So like the car manufacturers
43:11
and stuff like that. So I'm still being a sports
43:13
agent while working in like hot manufacturing places.
43:18
Warehouse, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
43:20
And. I'm working 12 hour shifts and
43:23
stuff like that while still being a sports agent, yeah.
43:25
While the dream of like, I don't want to be working this, I want
43:28
to be a successful sports agent. Wow, how did you manage that?
43:32
That's that's tough. I think that taught me time
43:35
management. That's that's where that came
43:36
from. It definitely was a lot.
43:40
But I think it got to the point where I was like, you know, I
43:42
can't, I can't be the sports agent that I need to be and
43:46
still be working 12 hour shifts at a warehouse.
43:50
Like I'm supposed to be at the games.
43:53
I have clients calling me. I can't answer because I'm on
43:55
the floor and it's like, you know, you're, you're taking me
43:57
away from what I'm supposed to be doing.
44:00
So I think that's when I think that's when coaching came in.
44:04
As though way to have some more time like to gain back time.
44:08
Yeah, before we get into coaching.
44:10
It's interesting like I feel like you took the hard path,
44:15
which we may learn is the right path, you know towards.
44:19
I think about jobs like sport agent trying to get other jobs.
44:24
You know, maybe DJI want to be a radio, DJI want to be a maybe an
44:30
actor. I'm trying to think of these
44:32
things like so there's some majors that you can go into
44:35
college and they're very like you're majoring in this.
44:39
So you are going to go be this teacher education will be the
44:41
easiest one, like hey, I'm going to go study elementary education
44:46
and when you graduate, you are going to go become a teacher.
44:48
And we talk about what those type of positions.
44:50
Engineering would be another one medical school.
44:54
You know what you're going to be because of that degree and we
44:57
talk about how important it is for mentors and and and support
45:01
staff for those like when first year teacher like, oh man, thank
45:04
goodness there's going to be some other teachers to help
45:07
guide you along the way in jobs like this sport agent.
45:10
There is no major for sport agent.
45:13
So if you're going to be a sport agent, the easier not not easy
45:18
the easier path was oh, I'm going to go work for an agency.
45:21
That's how I'm going to learn what this actually means to be a
45:24
sport agent. And then next amount of time,
45:27
five years, 10 years, 20 years, I'm going to start my own
45:29
agency. You off the because so like when
45:32
you say, yeah, I still don't know what it means.
45:33
Like I like I feel that it's like, well, yeah, you didn't
45:37
major in this. You didn't go work for you know
45:41
what's the most famous agent? Drew Rosenhaus probably right.
45:44
You didn't go work in Drew's agency and like Drew and his his
45:48
people like I I got it like I sat in all these things.
45:51
I learned. They gave me that, you know, and
45:52
then I started Modi. You're like headline into a path
45:56
that is black in front of you, all dark.
45:59
I can't see anything. Yep.
46:01
But I know to try to move forward.
46:02
I don't know where I'm going, but I'm moving forward.
46:05
Yep. Did did that scare you?
46:10
I think that's the right way. I want to ask that.
46:12
At the beginning it did I. I tell this story often, like
46:17
before I even decided to to create my own sports agency.
46:21
You know, I was in prayer one time and God was like, you know,
46:24
I need you to start your own sports agency and bring it to
46:26
Fort Wayne. And I was like, yeah, you're
46:27
crazy because I don't know what that even is like you're talking
46:31
to the wrong person. Again.
46:34
It happened again. And I was in prayer and you
46:38
know, it came up again and I was just like, there's no way you
46:41
want me as a young female to to succeed in this industry when
46:51
male dominated. There's no way.
46:53
And he literally said, if I called you to do this, then
46:57
you're more than qualified. And at that point I had to say,
47:03
OK, I'll do it. I don't, I don't know where I'm
47:07
going, but I trust you and I'm just going to, I'm just going to
47:10
let it go. Whatever happens is going to
47:12
happen. And that was it.
47:15
Earlier on our pre interview, I made the mention about, you
47:20
know, sometimes we have to see something to believe that we can
47:23
do it right. And like one of the sub goals,
47:28
if you will, for me in this podcast is, you know, I look at
47:31
our athletic makeup and these are going to be very vague,
47:35
like, you know, I'm not getting to specific percentages, but
47:38
roughly out of all of our athletes, roughly 50% white, 50%
47:44
African, African American. When I when I look at our track
47:48
coaches, I don't see roughly 50% white, 50% African American.
47:53
Same with male and female. We're roughly 50% male and 50%
47:58
female on our athletes. But then when I look at our
48:00
coaching body, I don't see roughly 50% male.
48:04
I see, you know, much majority of of another way.
48:09
And so I like making sure that I have women coaches on on the
48:16
podcast and that I have coaches of color on this podcast because
48:22
early like I still remember, I'm pretty sure it was Karen Dennis,
48:25
now retired, former head coach of the State University.
48:29
And she told a story. I'm pretty sure it was her told
48:33
the story of how one of the first coaches she had was an
48:36
African American woman. And she was like, whoa, I, this
48:40
is the first one. Like I thought it was all
48:42
supposed to be white dudes. Like, wait a minute.
48:44
So does that mean I can become a track coach?
48:45
And again, I can't remember if it was Karen, but this person,
48:50
let's just say it was Karen was like, oh, then I'm I want to be
48:53
that. And she saw it.
48:55
And so she could be coming. So I want to make sure people
48:57
see, hey, you know, women can be coaches.
48:59
So if you're a young lady who's listening, you're an athlete or,
49:02
you know, not in the coaching, you're in professional world,
49:05
but you're not in coaching at this point.
49:06
You ran track back in the day and you're like, yeah, I can't
49:08
be a coach. I'm a woman.
49:09
There's women coaches. Or maybe you're a person of
49:12
color and you're like, well, yeah, that's not, that's not a
49:14
gig for me. It's like, no, no, it's a gig
49:16
for you for sure. I'm curious in your world.
49:21
And and I also, you know, when I have these type of conversations
49:23
here, Chantel, you know, I also have a lot of self-awareness
49:26
that you're talking to a white dude.
49:27
You're talking to the exact that we see everywhere.
49:30
And so I see white dudes everywhere, too, right?
49:32
That's what I see. I have the assumption that the
49:36
majority of sports agents are white males.
49:42
How are you navigating you? You kind of open the door a
49:45
little bit of like, yeah, I'm a woman.
49:47
You know, when it's a male dominance, how are you?
49:52
You're not seeing you in front of you.
49:55
You you're not seeing like, oh, look at these ten African
49:57
American women who are sports agents who, you know, represent
50:00
Michael Jordan and whatever you know, you're not seeing that.
50:03
How are you? I'm not sure even how to ask
50:07
those questions. How does that make you feel?
50:10
Let's start with that. Let's let's take the broader
50:12
when when you're looking, when you're staring at, you know, you
50:14
go to take that test for FIBA and WNBAI have to assume that
50:18
room was probably full of white males.
50:20
And you're like, how do you how do you keep going?
50:24
How does that not beat you back and say hey no, this isn't the
50:28
right place for you? I think it's my face because
50:34
again, like I said, once I heard that thing where it's like if I
50:38
called you, you did being more than qualified at that point.
50:40
Nobody, nobody can tell me that I can't be here.
50:43
Nobody can tell me no. You can tell me no all you want,
50:46
but that's not going to shake me.
50:48
I think I've, I've had a few people in my career where
50:51
they're like, you can't do this, you're too young, you're a
50:54
female. And I was like, OK, that's fine.
50:56
You didn't think what you want. I didn't.
50:58
Think you. I didn't think about that,
50:59
Chantelle. You got three strikes.
51:00
You're young, too. That's right.
51:01
Yeah. Yeah.
51:03
And I was like, OK, I'm fine, you can say what you want.
51:06
By the end of the day, that has a bigger plan for me.
51:09
And he's already told me what this is going to be and I'm not
51:12
going to let you steer me away from that.
51:14
So there's plenty of people that say stuff like that all the
51:17
time, but there's a few things that I have to think about.
51:20
I have to think about, you know, the journey that God has me on.
51:23
I can think about my family. I have to think about the
51:25
athletes who I'm impacting, the athletes who lives that I'm
51:29
changing. Because if I go away because of
51:31
what somebody told me, what is that going to do for the athlete
51:35
who actually needs me there? You know, so that's, that's the
51:39
things that keep me going with being a sports agent and being a
51:43
coach at the same time. Because I, I hope I'm wrong.
51:47
I have to feel you alluded to their a lot of people told you,
51:50
no, you can't do this. Oh, and by the way, I, you know,
51:53
I said three strikes. Maybe the 4th strike is you're
51:55
opening your own agency again. I have to believe that most
51:59
people probably start in an agency.
52:01
Oh, maybe 5th strike is. Yeah, OK, sure, maybe Chanteal,
52:04
but not in Fort Wayne. Yeah, Yep.
52:08
Right, you know, maybe, maybe Indy, maybe, but really you need
52:12
to go to, you know, the New Yorks, Miami, whatever, maybe
52:15
the hot, the Lai assume things like that, right.
52:17
That's amazing to me. That really is that's that's
52:20
that's really amazing when you talk about, you know, God
52:24
speaking to you. I'm not sure it's it's a Bible
52:27
verse, but I've heard this where they say God doesn't call the
52:30
qualified, he qualifies the called.
52:33
And that's what this sounds like.
52:34
It's like because I like how I like how you and I like when
52:37
people get real about faith. So I appreciate your openness
52:39
and authenticity to discuss that.
52:41
But I like the realness there when you're like, yeah, God told
52:45
me that. And I was like, you got the
52:47
wrong person. You must have, you know, maybe
52:48
it's someone over there, but you got like the pushback.
52:52
And then you know, what does God do?
52:54
He pushes back. He he does that, he has a funny
52:58
way of telling people like, hey, no, I meant that.
53:00
Go do it all. Right, so you start coaching
53:04
track. I'm hearing really out of a
53:08
necessity. Necessity or desire to gain back
53:11
some of my time so I can work on Capture.
53:15
Sports agency here. Yeah.
53:17
So how'd that? How'd that start working out?
53:20
Well, I actually reached out to Edgar.
53:22
I think it was like 2020, like in the summer maybe.
53:28
And I was like, hey, you know. What's the wrong time to work
53:31
out to call, by the way? Yeah, OK, alright.
53:33
It it is. And I was like, you know, I was
53:36
thinking about, you know, trying to, you know, get back into
53:41
coaching, you know, something like that, or not get back into
53:43
coaching. But you know, some of these came
53:46
out where I think, you know, I want to be able to give back to
53:49
the track team, especially at Indian Tech.
53:51
And even when I did graduate, like Edgar had me come back and
53:54
speak to the teams and stuff like that to talk about
53:57
leadership and stuff like that. So I still had a connection to
53:59
the team and stuff like that. So asking him about this, I
54:04
didn't think it was a far X, but at the same time, I felt like he
54:07
would have said no. So when he said yes, I was like,
54:10
whoa, I wasn't expecting that. So yeah, I've been coaching at
54:18
NEA Tech ever since I'm going. This is my fifth year.
54:22
Earlier I didn't ask it like this, but a lot of times I'll
54:25
ask someone in your situation of basketball and track, I'll say,
54:28
are you a basketball player who's running track or are you a
54:30
track kid who's running basketball?
54:31
You're clearly back then at least you were a basketball
54:35
player who also ran track as you're at least starting
54:39
coaching and you know you can answer even up till today.
54:41
Are you a track coach who also has their own sports agency
54:46
company, has their own company? Or are you a sport agent who
54:49
also coaches track? I'm a sports agent that also
54:53
coaches, yeah. And that's fair, but I should
54:55
have been. I appreciate you.
54:56
You're not open as just answer that and trust me on that.
55:00
No, no judgement. You know, I know sometimes it
55:01
could be like, well, dude, I'm on the track coach podcast.
55:03
Am I supposed to say track coach for?
55:05
No, that's fair. Because what I want, you know,
55:07
one of the big parts of this there, there's two big goals of
55:11
the podcast. 1 is the uplift and honor what you do as a track
55:13
coach. And we're certainly going to get
55:15
into that. And it's it's been amazing Even
55:17
so far what we've seen of track coaches that have poured into
55:19
you, you know, your high school coaches and your college coaches
55:21
certainly. And look how they're continuing
55:23
to pour into you saying, yeah, sure, come, come coach with
55:25
we'll we'll figure this out. I love that so 1 is uplifting on
55:28
our your journey in this great profession, but also to show
55:32
people like there is. I hate to use the the old term,
55:34
you know, more than one way to skin a cat.
55:36
We don't have to say that anymore.
55:37
I just thought about that. Maybe that's.
55:39
I don't know, but yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, there's many ways to
55:42
do things. Let's just be safe here.
55:43
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I just thought about that.
55:44
I was like, no, it's some pet stuff, not real good anyway that
55:47
there's a lot of different people doing a lot of different
55:49
things in our sport now. I don't know what to say.
55:51
So. So I love that, you know, it's
55:53
like, yeah, I'm a I'm a sports agent.
55:54
I'm a business owner first and yes, I coach track and field.
55:57
That's cool. I love that because you're still
55:59
pouring into and supporting our great sport and our great
56:02
profession. So let's focus on the track
56:05
coaching part first and then we'll definitely because I'm
56:09
just super fast. You know what?
56:10
One guy who's become a very good friend was on this podcast long
56:14
time ago, Quinn Pack coach, coach Cube, which has led me to
56:17
a lot of other great friendships.
56:18
Again, connections was the very appropriate term for this.
56:22
I invited him onto the podcast for one and only one reason.
56:26
He is a birder. Do you know what a birder is?
56:29
I do not. You've seen these people, they
56:32
they chase birds and take picture like they're they, they,
56:35
they take pictures of birds. They're they're birders like,
56:38
you know, they like to say, oh, I, you know, caught my 200 and
56:41
something species, you know, they, they like.
56:43
To be yeah, it's. Cool.
56:45
It's interesting, but I knew nothing about it.
56:48
And I was like, hey, you want to be on this podcast?
56:49
And, you know, I was like, yeah, OK, let's talk about track
56:51
coaching. That's cool.
56:52
Cool. So tell me about this birding
56:53
thing. Like, what is the.
56:54
You know, I learned about birding.
56:56
So there's no judgment on what you do.
56:58
I love this. So let's focus on coaching
57:02
track. So you start coaching in, I
57:05
don't want to say the worst possible time, but you know,
57:07
summer 2020 wasn't the greatest time for a track and fields on
57:10
any level. You seem like someone that
57:15
prepares like doesn't like to not be prepared.
57:17
And, and maybe you kind of learned your way into that a
57:20
little bit too, from high school to college.
57:22
What did you do? So you you kind of were
57:24
expecting him to say no and then all of a sudden he said, yeah,
57:28
what do you do? Because you you want to be at
57:31
least the best track coach that you can be.
57:33
As kind of the feeling I get from you.
57:34
What? What do?
57:36
You do so for for the first part, I think I, I'm a good
57:42
visual learner. So what I see, I replicate it
57:49
and I try to make it better. So my thing was I, I watched
57:53
Edgar do a lot of things and that's how I became the coach
58:00
that I am today as far as track coach goes.
58:03
And I got it from Edgar for the most part, him, my high school
58:07
coach, you know, I've seen how they've, they talk to athletes.
58:11
I see how they coach certain things and being able to be a
58:15
part of our track camps that we have in the winter and in the
58:20
fall, just seeing how certain things work, how certain things
58:25
go and stuff like that. And it's even got to the point
58:29
where he's kind of letting me run like my own long sprints
58:31
group now where I'm helping them, you know, run their own
58:35
workouts and stuff like that. So, you know, he's giving me
58:39
some type of leadership in a way with certain groups.
58:43
So just watching him do stuff has helped me become the coach I
58:47
am today, yeah. How much do you draw on your
58:50
personal experience when you think about, you know, first
58:53
time college student, you know, trying to take it all in, figure
58:56
it all out, Weren't a track kid. What wasn't a track first kid,
59:02
didn't lift weights, things like that.
59:03
How much of that experience do you draw on when you look at
59:05
your freshman and maybe even sophomore, juniors and seniors?
59:09
How much do you draw on when you look at and you're working with
59:11
those athletes today as as the coach?
59:13
Yeah, a lot. And when I have my meetings with
59:16
them, I'm telling them to like, hey, I know that you're not, you
59:20
didn't lift in high school. The lifting here is going to be
59:22
a lot more intense, right? Or I know that you probably, you
59:27
probably didn't do the workouts that we're about to start doing.
59:31
So I know that the adjustment is going to be hard.
59:33
But I need you to understand that you have to buy in and you
59:36
have to trust me because that's what you're going to need in
59:41
order to get through the rest of these years.
59:43
And the quicker you do that, the quicker you'll be able to
59:47
succeed at this program. So based off of everything that
59:51
I've went through with tech, that's what I'm able to give a
59:54
lot of those freshmen. That's kind of how I build
59:57
relationships with those freshmen, letting them know I'm
59:59
telling them my story. And when they're seeing my
1:00:02
story, they're like, OK, so you do get it.
1:00:06
You know, you you do know what I'm going through right now and
1:00:10
you're being a big help at the moment.
1:00:11
So that's kind of how, you know, I build that bridge between
1:00:15
being a coach and and talking with the athletes and especially
1:00:18
the freshmen. You know, I have a huge soft
1:00:22
spot in my heart for alums who coach at their alma mater.
1:00:25
You know, when you're talking to that freshman and saying, hey,
1:00:29
you know, you have a choice. You can or cannot.
1:00:31
But you know, if you want to do better, you'll buy in early.
1:00:35
Like I didn't buy until sophomore year.
1:00:36
And not that we, you know, you, you may not necessarily don't
1:00:39
put words in your mouth to express it this way, but you
1:00:41
know, you one of the ways you could say it is like, you know,
1:00:43
I have a little regret. Like, man, if I bought in my
1:00:45
freshman year, I don't know how good would have been senior
1:00:48
year. And to tell that story to a 18
1:00:51
year old kid and that 18 year old kid can actually visual
1:00:54
because you went to school there can actually visualize like, oh,
1:00:57
there's coach Smith Jones on the track.
1:01:01
Like I can see her, you know, not like having a picture like,
1:01:04
oh, she went to North Carolina or, you know, the greatest
1:01:06
university in the world, Troy University.
1:01:08
You know that you can't see that because you don't know that.
1:01:10
You know, it's like, oh, I see that.
1:01:12
Oh, she had the same English one O 1 teacher that I'd like.
1:01:16
I just think alums at their alma mater when you call to recruit a
1:01:20
kid and you talk about how great the school is, you know how the
1:01:23
great I know it is. I went to school here.
1:01:25
Like I'm not telling you it's great because, you know, they
1:01:27
give me a paycheck. I'm doing great because I win.
1:01:29
That's how much I believe in this school.
1:01:31
You know how you don't have any exam?
1:01:35
Assuming I don't want to assume. Let's.
1:01:37
Let's ask this quick yes or no question.
1:01:39
You've been at Indiana Tech the whole time since starting
1:01:42
coaching. Yeah.
1:01:43
OK. I assume that.
1:01:44
I just want to make sure. So you don't have any
1:01:48
alternative to compare this to, But I'm curious, you know,
1:01:51
Indiana Tech's program like Uber successful.
1:01:56
I mean, gosh, you guys, you know it, it's interesting when you
1:01:59
get into a program and a, you know, if you get 4th at
1:02:01
nationals, that's a bad year. It's like, oh man, we didn't
1:02:04
want to pursue, you know, Yeah, yeah.
1:02:06
That's a heck of an expectation to have and you've done it in a
1:02:11
longevity factor. It's one thing to have.
1:02:13
I mean, you know, it's, it's hard to win.
1:02:14
We, we lose sight of that in track and field that it's hard
1:02:17
to win because we go to these meets and there's 20 something
1:02:19
events on men and women's sites. There's always a winner.
1:02:22
So we sometimes forget like winning is hard.
1:02:25
So winning a conference title is hard.
1:02:27
Winning a national title is hard.
1:02:28
And you've been able to do it multiple years in a row being at
1:02:33
such a high level. How much because we talk about
1:02:36
the mental side of track and field, you know, training is
1:02:39
important. You got to train, you got to
1:02:40
train properly. We talk about the mental side.
1:02:42
How much is the like implied expectation that these kids
1:02:48
have? I mean, they go to your school
1:02:50
and it's a little, you know, they look in that trophy case
1:02:52
and they're like, well, I don't want to be the reason we don't
1:02:55
that we stopped winning those things.
1:02:57
How much, How much? I don't know if I've ever asked
1:03:00
this before. How much of the implied
1:03:03
expectation stress levels plays into their success?
1:03:08
A lot. And it's to the point where last
1:03:12
year I started doing mental health sessions with athletes.
1:03:16
I'll just say, listen, if you want, if you want to come in and
1:03:20
talk about it, we can definitely do that.
1:03:22
And we had like maybe 11:50 athletes every time come in and
1:03:26
talk about the mental hardship they were having going into a
1:03:30
meeting or how they felt after practice or whatever the case
1:03:34
may be. And a lot of them was like, OK,
1:03:38
I'm the fastest person on the team.
1:03:40
And I feel like everybody wants me to be Superman.
1:03:43
Like I can't have, I can't have an off practice.
1:03:46
I can't have a down practice because if I'm down, everybody
1:03:50
thinks that, you know, I suck all of a sudden, right?
1:03:53
And I have to be Superman for everybody.
1:03:55
So now their mentor was all messed up or, or, or you have a
1:03:58
freshman coming in and they're like, so that's that all right,
1:04:03
I'm going to come in and I'm going to go 45.
1:04:05
And I'm looking at them like, So what if you don't go 45?
1:04:10
What a what a question. That hit me a little bit.
1:04:12
But what if you don't? Yeah.
1:04:14
Yeah. And they're like, I'm not saying
1:04:16
that you can't. I'm just saying in your first
1:04:19
year that you're here, you really think you're going to go
1:04:22
45 when you're, let's say, let's say your PR is like 51 and
1:04:29
you're like, all right, I'm going 45.
1:04:31
And I'm like, and I, and that's another thing, like I always
1:04:35
tell the athletes, make sure you have realistic goal.
1:04:39
Like don't. I'm not saying that you can't do
1:04:42
it, but let's let's start with goals that are going to build up
1:04:45
to that. You can't automatically say I'm
1:04:47
going 45 if you didn't even say you were going to go sub 49.
1:04:51
So. So how do you balance?
1:04:52
This is interesting in this has been going on from the dawn of
1:04:56
time, but that's a great example.
1:04:58
A kid who comes in at 51 and you know, right off the bat says
1:05:01
May, I'm going 45. There's a little bit of a
1:05:04
balancing act here. So you, you, you're spot on.
1:05:08
Love what you're talking about in regards to realistic goals,
1:05:10
right? They, they have a thing called
1:05:11
SMART goals, right? Specific, measurable,
1:05:13
attainable, related, related, yeah, related to the task at
1:05:18
hand and timely a time time goal.
1:05:21
And so on one hand you have this like, well, bro, maybe by your
1:05:26
senior year, that would be amazing.
1:05:28
Like I'm going to win coach of the year if that happens because
1:05:30
you fit your mind right. But on the other hand, you also,
1:05:34
you know, the mental game well enough.
1:05:35
You can't crush the kid and be like, dude, you ain't never run
1:05:38
it for like, come on, man. If you run, if you run 48B,
1:05:41
you've got a heck of a career coming from 51.
1:05:43
How do you balance that? Like mental side?
1:05:48
Like, I want you to believe that you can win the gold medal, son,
1:05:51
but we better be realistic here, too, because you can't set them
1:05:54
up like you're going to win the gold medal.
1:05:55
And, you know, they run 48, which would, again, would be
1:05:57
amazing. They're like, man, I suck.
1:05:58
You suck as my coach. I didn't get, you know, I didn't
1:06:00
run 45 like we said we were. How do you balance that realism
1:06:04
versus belief in the bigger? I guess, Yeah.
1:06:08
So with that, I'm pretty much just asking like, what are you
1:06:12
doing outside of here that you think you're going to run a
1:06:15
certain time? Like are you are you drinking
1:06:17
properly? Are you getting enough rest?
1:06:20
Are you going to see the trainers when you need to?
1:06:22
Are you stretching afterwards? Like I'm asking them all these
1:06:25
other person, if they say no, then my question back to them
1:06:29
is, OK, so how are you set to run 45?
1:06:32
So it's making them think about, you know, what they're trying to
1:06:35
do. But then I also bring in someone
1:06:38
who's been at the program for a while and I say, well, this
1:06:40
person started here and they're at a 45.
1:06:45
But this is how they got here. They didn't just make the big
1:06:48
jump all the way down to 45. They they gradually got there.
1:06:54
And then, you know, they're like, you know, well, I'm going
1:06:56
to open up. I want to open up with a 46.
1:07:01
I said, what's the point of opening up so fast for you?
1:07:03
Got a whole season Like relax, just relax be patient and trust
1:07:10
the process I tell them that all the time just trust the process.
1:07:14
If it's meant for you to have it, you'll have it and at the
1:07:17
end of the day I always tell them whatever your goals are I'm
1:07:19
going to coach you to that goal. So if you tell me you want to
1:07:23
run 45, then we're going to train like you're going to run
1:07:26
45. But if I see at any given time
1:07:29
that you can't handle it, then I'm going to drop you back down
1:07:32
and you're just going to have to work your way back up.
1:07:35
Do. You find what do you who do you
1:07:38
find has more? I would deem a kid saying who
1:07:43
ran 51 coming into my freshman as a program run 51 out of high
1:07:46
school, saying they want to run 45 their freshman year.
1:07:49
Maybe if they said their senior year, I don't know.
1:07:50
I'd be less rain on the parade if you will.
1:07:54
But freshman year I'd be like, you know, we need to have some
1:07:57
realistic goals here. Who do you find has these
1:08:01
unrealistic goals more? Is it the kid who has, I don't
1:08:06
want to say has talent, has up to that point shown more like
1:08:10
who do you, who do you see has more of the unrealistic goals?
1:08:13
A kid that comes into your program running 48 out of high
1:08:15
school, that's a sharp mark, OK, and says I want to run 45.
1:08:21
So they've exhibited, you know, pretty high talent.
1:08:22
I mean 48's the heck of AI know in today's world that seems like
1:08:25
pedestrian but 48 is still fast. That's still moving.
1:08:28
Or that that kid that's comes in as a 52 second, 51 second says I
1:08:32
want in front of report who who are you?
1:08:33
And this is a generalization. But and maybe it's you're like,
1:08:36
oh man, it's 5050 amongst the group.
1:08:38
Who who's who's coming in more with unrealistic expectations.
1:08:40
The kids who are like, man, you know, we might need a miracle on
1:08:43
this or the kid. It's like, you know, you got
1:08:47
some talent maybe. Yeah, I think it comes off of
1:08:50
their work ethic. Like I can't make the decision
1:08:54
and say if you come in at 48, you're not going to go, you're
1:08:58
not going to be able to go 45. But I can tell based off of the
1:09:01
work ethic, like if you're willing to put in the extra
1:09:03
work, there's no reason why you couldn't.
1:09:08
But it's the people who come in with unrealistic goals who do
1:09:11
nothing outside of it. And they're just all talk.
1:09:16
And they're like, hey, I'm, I want to come in and do this.
1:09:19
And I'm like, yeah, you want to come in and do this, but what
1:09:22
are you doing outside of this? Which one do you see more, the
1:09:25
person who comes in and actually does the things that they're
1:09:27
supposed to do, or at least the majority of things, or the
1:09:29
person who says, yeah, I want to run 45 but yet I'm missing
1:09:32
practice and staying up till 1:00?
1:09:34
Which one do you see more in, in general?
1:09:37
And this might be unfair for you to ask because you know you're
1:09:39
going to be answering about Indiana Tech because you not
1:09:41
coaching anywhere else. So I'm just asking in general
1:09:44
where where maybe you see this? I mean, I would say at the
1:09:47
beginning of my coaching it was more so people who didn't do
1:09:52
anything. But now that I've like prepped a
1:09:56
lot of the long strands and stuff like that, it's more so
1:09:58
they're doing the extra stuff in my in my fifth year, they're
1:10:02
doing a lot more of the extra stuff because they they've seen
1:10:04
other people buy in culture. Yeah, so.
1:10:08
They're like, they're like, OK, this is going to work.
1:10:11
And something you said, a question that you asked and
1:10:14
maybe you don't you, you, you get us some more in depth here.
1:10:19
Maybe you're not actually asking the kids this question, but I,
1:10:22
it's a question that when you said it, I was like, oh man.
1:10:24
Because you know, there's, there's things that sometimes
1:10:26
like, no, we're not supposed to say those things out loud.
1:10:27
Like it's good, like, you know, we should be saying those things
1:10:30
out loud. But to tell someone with a
1:10:33
dream, whether it's a realistic or, you know, a stretched dream,
1:10:38
let's call it, and what happens if you don't?
1:10:40
Like, that's a really important question because it's like, you
1:10:43
know, it's, but it's like a dose.
1:10:44
I mean, it's a punch in the face of like, oh, reality, not every
1:10:48
goal gets set. How?
1:10:50
How have you seen people react to that?
1:10:54
It's actually been pretty good. I haven't said it often, but to
1:10:58
the people, the people that I do say to, they know that it's
1:11:00
coming from a general place. So so so it's a deep, serious
1:11:04
question like that that I talk about.
1:11:05
You know, it's that right? Hook boy, yes, that you're not
1:11:08
the freshman first meeting says I want to earn 45.
1:11:11
You're not all right. Well, what happens if you don't?
1:11:13
This is a question that comes with after you've earned a lot
1:11:15
of trust and experience. OK, Yep, I like that.
1:11:20
That makes sense. What do you do?
1:11:23
So let's keep talking about coaching here for just a little
1:11:24
bit. You know, you've been coaching
1:11:27
now for four going on five years.
1:11:29
You talked about how you know culture is changing in a
1:11:32
positive manner because they they, you know, they know you
1:11:34
and what what your expectations are.
1:11:35
What are you doing? You know, you have your own
1:11:38
business that is busy enough. What are you doing coaching
1:11:41
education wise? Are you are you doing level 1
1:11:44
level twos, USTFCAS? Are you doing more informal,
1:11:48
which is just as important, Coaching, education, calling up
1:11:51
coaches? Obviously you have coaches on
1:11:53
your staff that are, you know, really smart and accomplished.
1:11:55
What are you doing to make Coach Smith better, a better coach?
1:12:01
Really, honestly, we've talked about it, like me and Edgar,
1:12:05
we've talked about it a few times of me trying to take like
1:12:08
the Level 1 certifications and the level twos, but I haven't
1:12:11
done any of that stuff yet. I've really just been visually
1:12:16
learning things pretty much, and I picked the brains of them so
1:12:20
much. Like, like I'm asking a lot of
1:12:23
questions, whether it be the head coach, the assistant coach,
1:12:27
the jumps coach, the distance coach, the host coach, whatever
1:12:30
the case may be. I'm asking a lot of questions
1:12:33
just because I'm curious. I just want to know, so I
1:12:37
haven't had the opportunity to do those type things just yet,
1:12:41
but it's it's definitely something that I would be really
1:12:43
interested in doing. Are you wanting to keep
1:12:46
coaching? I get access a lot, yeah.
1:12:51
Sure. And you know, because you have
1:12:53
competing it's it sounds like I don't own my own business and I
1:12:57
didn't own my own business when I coached.
1:13:00
But you, you're not, it's so interesting as we start
1:13:03
transition over to this, to the agency side, you don't work for
1:13:07
another agency, meaning like, oh, you know, I give 30 hours a
1:13:11
week for them and then, you know, 20-30 hours for coaching.
1:13:13
You own the joint. That's a whole different.
1:13:16
You know, I have so much respect for people who own their own
1:13:20
businesses. You know, I, I look at my boss,
1:13:23
our owner here and you know, I've been here 18 years.
1:13:26
I care like I care about these men and women that work for us.
1:13:30
I care, I always say these four walls.
1:13:32
I care about these four walls. I, you know, I'm going to I'm in
1:13:34
charge of this. I'm I shouldn't say I'm a chart.
1:13:37
I'm I'm responsible for this very old brand.
1:13:40
It's over 100 years old. Gil is for a very short amount
1:13:43
of time. It's going to hopefully, you
1:13:45
know, live past me a hundred 200 years.
1:13:47
So I'm responsible for this, this very precious thing for a
1:13:50
small town. So I care and then I look at my
1:13:54
boss, the owner, and I go, oh, but you care more like like like
1:13:58
if it does all crumble, I probably found another job.
1:14:02
If this all crumbles, you're holding the bag.
1:14:04
You own the joy to, you know, So I have a lot of respect.
1:14:08
Like, you know, the most bravest thing I did professionally was I
1:14:11
quit coaching and moved to Vegas and played poker for a living.
1:14:13
That was brave in that sense, right?
1:14:14
Some people would call that stupid and you might be fair
1:14:16
there, too. Owning your own business is
1:14:19
brave. Like I couldn't do it today.
1:14:21
I'm a much better person. I'm a much better businessman
1:14:25
today than I was before I came here.
1:14:27
And I still would like. Nah, I'm not not that's too much
1:14:31
for me, man. You own the business.
1:14:33
So it's it's so I think it's a fair question.
1:14:37
When I say do you want to keep, you know, you won't be able to
1:14:39
do both as capture grows, coaching grow.
1:14:43
You know, it's it's incompatible as far as two full time.
1:14:45
There's only one of of you really, you know.
1:14:48
Yeah. So let's transition to the
1:14:50
sports agency. So for us, that includes this
1:14:53
guy who really don't know much about what a sports agent does.
1:14:57
Let's let's go 30,000 foot level.
1:14:59
Tell me, tell us what what is a sports agent do?
1:15:03
What do you do? What, what, why does an athlete
1:15:06
have an agent? You know, there's some
1:15:07
assumptions. So let's let's clear those up
1:15:10
whether they're true or not. Let's let's start there.
1:15:12
What in the world does a sports agent do?
1:15:15
Yes. So a sports agent honestly just
1:15:18
manages an athlete. And for me personally, it's on a
1:15:23
lot of different levels. One day I can be the athlete's
1:15:26
mentor, the next day I can be the athlete's mother, the next
1:15:29
day I can be the athlete's sister, or the next day I could
1:15:33
be the athlete's best friend or whatever the case may be.
1:15:37
There's several ways that athletes need us as sports
1:15:40
agents. And again, we are managing their
1:15:44
personal lives, their professional lives.
1:15:46
We're helping them build up their own brand.
1:15:49
We're helping them become something other than an athlete.
1:15:52
You know, we're helping them like even on a, on a track
1:15:54
sense, but I don't really know too much on the track sense.
1:15:56
But you know, you're, you're trying to help them get
1:15:58
sponsors. You know, you're trying to help
1:16:00
them get the track meets where they can compete to get to the
1:16:04
next level of either, you know, the world or the Olympics or
1:16:08
whatever the case may be. You're trying to help them get
1:16:10
those sponsorships so that they can get those things paid for
1:16:12
and stuff like that. On the basketball side, that's,
1:16:15
that's pretty much what we're doing too.
1:16:17
We're, we're trying to help them get on teams.
1:16:21
We're negotiating contracts so that they they can get paid
1:16:25
more. Marketing side of things.
1:16:27
We're trying to make sure they're getting the, the
1:16:28
endorsements that they need, the sponsorship that they need.
1:16:31
We're also trying to help them build up their community.
1:16:34
If there's anything that they need to do in their community,
1:16:36
we'll help them do that as well. Just to help them build that up
1:16:40
as well as network with people who say, say for example,
1:16:43
there's a basketball player who wants to get into broadcasting
1:16:46
or they want to become a coach. We help navigate those ways so
1:16:51
that they can connect with those people so that when the
1:16:53
opportunity comes, they have people that they can talk to and
1:16:56
have a mentor and stuff like that.
1:16:57
So it's a lot, you know it, It comes with a lot for sure.
1:17:03
You know, Gill today has hundreds of employees, but when
1:17:06
they started, well, it was one Harry Gild and the guy who
1:17:09
started. All right.
1:17:10
Are you at this stage of the business?
1:17:13
Are you a solopreneur or do you have a team?
1:17:16
Yeah, we have about there's like two or three of us and then the
1:17:21
rest are concerned. OK.
1:17:23
And do you I'm I ask this, do you for your agency and then
1:17:28
also like other agencies that you know of, do you focus on one
1:17:33
or two sports or is it like any athlete you might reach out to
1:17:38
that would fit your profile? You know, I'm I'm assuming and
1:17:43
you know, Chantil, we've known each other for all of an hour
1:17:46
and a half here. You are allowed to smack my
1:17:48
hand. I'm assuming a Michael Jordan S
1:17:50
type person isn't reaching out to capture like you wouldn't at
1:17:54
this point you wouldn't even be able to really support that
1:17:56
person properly. But there's other levels of
1:17:59
athletes that you certainly do like Oh yeah, yeah, we can, we
1:18:02
can really build you up, make you to a Michael Jordan one day.
1:18:06
So are you focused on a sport or across sports?
1:18:12
But at a certain stratum, like who we, we talk a lot about who
1:18:16
our ideal customer is. OK, when I teach podcasting
1:18:20
classes, I teach classes to help people start podcast.
1:18:22
I always tell them you need to find out who's your ideal
1:18:25
listener. That is your they're going to be
1:18:26
other listeners, but who is that listener that you're after,
1:18:30
right. So for like for us, it was like
1:18:31
I am after high school and college track coaches.
1:18:35
We have we have athletes that listen to us.
1:18:37
I'm not, I love that they listen.
1:18:39
I love that you're out there listening right now, but I'm not
1:18:41
targeting towards them. We have retired coaches that
1:18:45
listen to you and I love you guys and gals that are out
1:18:46
there, but I'm not targeting them.
1:18:48
I'm targeting you. And you know, we had Carol Smith
1:18:52
Gilbert on the podcast. You like that.
1:18:54
Those are the people I'm trying to get to listen to the podcast.
1:18:57
Are you is your ideal client today that it changes today in a
1:19:02
certain sport or sports or a certain stratum of like rookies
1:19:06
or eighth round picks, not first round pick.
1:19:09
Talk to us about that. Am I making that?
1:19:11
I know nothing about your profession so I'm a little
1:19:13
stumbling along this. Year no so for the most part,
1:19:17
what a lot of people don't know is with a sports agent, you're
1:19:20
only certified in the sports that you get certified in.
1:19:25
So right, right, right. You told pretty much based off
1:19:27
of the league, so you have the NFLUSATFWNBA, stuff like that.
1:19:30
So I'm registered with the WNBA and Fever.
1:19:34
So there's really no first round pick, eighth round pick and
1:19:38
we're going full throttle. Got it.
1:19:39
If we get the first round pick, perfect.
1:19:42
If they end up getting in the third round, got it.
1:19:45
So be it. They're still just as great as
1:19:47
the first round pick. So I get WNBA FIBA, I know what
1:19:50
FIBA is. We manufacturer basketball
1:19:52
equipment too. So I know what FIBA is, but FIBA
1:19:55
is not a league. So.
1:19:56
So what does it mean? You're You're.
1:20:00
Certified through FIBA, Does that mean you can do like
1:20:01
international teams? Like, because I know there's
1:20:03
international leagues, I should say, because I know there's like
1:20:05
leagues in Europe and Italy and Australia.
1:20:08
So that Yep, Yep. So all of that is under FIBA.
1:20:12
So FIBA is a league and then everything else is underneath
1:20:15
that umbrella got. It got it.
1:20:16
Got it. OK, that that makes sense.
1:20:18
So for let's so let's focus on WNBA, because AI know a little
1:20:21
bit about it and it's you know, it's one of the hot things right
1:20:23
now going on. So which is cool because you're
1:20:26
a basketball player, like you know, it's kind of like you're
1:20:28
like man, that's you know, I know I ran track, but I'm I'm a
1:20:31
Hooper first and foremost. That's right.
1:20:32
So what, how are you? How are you attracting clients?
1:20:38
Like what? How do you, I mean, do you just
1:20:41
call up Caitlin Clark or DMR on Instagram?
1:20:43
Be like, hey man, you're pretty good.
1:20:45
You probably need an agent. Like how do you actually go out
1:20:49
and find your clients in? This day and age, it's a lot of
1:20:53
Instagram DMS. It's Instagram DMS, but it's
1:20:55
also who, you know, it could be a coach that's like, hey, I got
1:20:59
this athlete, you know, take a look at them, see if you're
1:21:02
interested. It can be, it can also be a
1:21:04
family member, a parent that can reach out and say, hey, I see
1:21:07
you're doing this. I have, you know, my son or my
1:21:10
daughter who is coming out this year.
1:21:14
Is there any way that you'll be interested in doing anything
1:21:16
like that? So I've had all levels of that.
1:21:20
So there's really no straightforward way of, of how
1:21:23
it happens. A lot of times it's DM lot of
1:21:25
times it comes from parents. A lot of times it comes from
1:21:28
coaches as well. When you're reaching out to
1:21:31
someone, do you have to And it there could be a lot of factors
1:21:36
here. It could be the the size of your
1:21:39
agency. It could be that you're an
1:21:42
African American. It could be that you're a woman.
1:21:44
Do you have to like prove to them like, yeah, I'm legit like
1:21:48
I got my own website and everything like, or is it, or is
1:21:50
there a little bit of like, not necessarily immediate trust,
1:21:54
like, oh, I'm going to sign away my house to her.
1:21:56
But it's like, oh, maybe I should talk with her.
1:21:58
Like how's your experience been with that so?
1:22:01
For the most part, what we end up doing is when we reach out to
1:22:04
them, we're, we're still telling them like, hey, this is who we
1:22:07
represent. We've been in business for this
1:22:09
long. So so.
1:22:10
That's your street cred right out the back.
1:22:11
Because then it's like, oh, they're legit.
1:22:12
This isn't some Yahoo here. They they're they're real.
1:22:16
OK, OK. Yeah.
1:22:17
Yep. And then we always try to keep
1:22:18
it transparent as possible with with a lot of the athletes that
1:22:21
we speak to as well. Pat so on the flip side, so
1:22:24
that's you being active on that other side that you were talking
1:22:27
about. And first of all, before I
1:22:29
forget, I love how you, your, your first words about
1:22:31
describing the, the job, the profession was, you know,
1:22:34
sometimes I'm mom, sometimes I'm sister, sometimes I'm best
1:22:36
friend, mentor coach, because it struck me, I watched the film.
1:22:40
Did you watch the video of Tyreek Hill getting pulled over
1:22:44
here in the last few weeks, which was absolutely ridiculous,
1:22:47
by the way. I I mean, we need to learn the
1:22:50
word de escalation, not escalation.
1:22:54
Everybody in general. I won't say who I thought was
1:22:57
maybe more in the wrong there. But anyway, I was not struck,
1:23:05
but it, it, it struck me that Tyreke when they started
1:23:08
arresting him, ridiculous. You know, I think his teammate,
1:23:14
it was his teammate. He was yelling at he he was, he
1:23:15
was yelling called Drew called Drew Rosenhaus again, maybe the
1:23:19
most more famous sport agent there is, right.
1:23:23
And, and I, that was, it struck me because it was like, wait a
1:23:26
minute, that's your agent, bro. Like, why don't you call your
1:23:28
lawyer? Because I know he's got, I
1:23:29
assume he's got a lawyer, you know, or call my mom or why I
1:23:32
don't. Well, I think he has his own
1:23:34
issues there. Sorry, but I, I didn't know that
1:23:37
Drew would be the, and it was like repeat, like call Drew,
1:23:39
just call Drew like not also maybe call Bob.
1:23:42
It was called Drew. Drew is the fixer.
1:23:45
And, you know, we watch movies like, God, show me the money.
1:23:51
Let's say. Come on, that's got to be OK.
1:23:53
As I say, that's got to be a movie.
1:23:54
Every sport agent watches like 100 times.
1:23:55
Yeah. Jerry Maguire, thank you.
1:23:57
And, you know, the things that that agent and those guys did
1:24:00
for their it's everything, you know?
1:24:04
So. So I love that you described it,
1:24:06
that you kind of like corroborated those things
1:24:09
because you're like, Yep, some days it's mom, coach, mentor,
1:24:12
sister. But you know, what do they need
1:24:13
that day at that time? Yep.
1:24:15
So I wanted to say that before I forgot what I was curious about.
1:24:18
So there's one thing you reaching out to others to try to
1:24:21
earn business. There's the other side of like
1:24:24
people reaching out to you that you mentioned.
1:24:27
I imagine you correct me where I'm wrong.
1:24:30
You, you can't be everybody. You can't agent 100 people
1:24:35
properly. I guess I should say you could,
1:24:37
but you wouldn't be giving anybody attention, right.
1:24:39
So that you kind of have in your mind, or maybe even you're still
1:24:41
learning. I I can handle this many clients
1:24:44
really well, whatever that number is, But you have other
1:24:48
people who are like, oh man, no, my son, my daughter, Oh, Jordan,
1:24:52
who that's my daughter's the Caitlin Clark, who that my
1:24:55
daughter's the next one. And you've got to a assess are
1:24:59
are they right or wrong? Because you know, it's almost
1:25:02
like you're recruiting, like we do college coaching for crying a
1:25:04
lot. You got to figure out like, oh,
1:25:06
are they legit or not legit? If they are legit, OK, Thank
1:25:10
God. They're reaching out to me the
1:25:12
the warm lead. Let's go for it.
1:25:14
Or I have to let this person down.
1:25:16
And you mentioned it about it being kind of like a
1:25:19
relationship business. You know, if a basketball player
1:25:21
knows something, they probably know other people.
1:25:23
So you can't just be like, dude, you're no good.
1:25:26
Don't contact me because that could be the cousin of the next
1:25:28
great, you know, basketball player.
1:25:31
And they remember how you told them they were no good, right?
1:25:33
How do you handle that evaluation of the people that
1:25:37
are being recommended or reaching out to you?
1:25:39
How do you handle that knowing you can only handle a certain
1:25:43
amount? My circle of agents that I know,
1:25:50
OK, so because it's even happened to me as well, where
1:25:55
one of my mentors are like, hey, I got too many athletes or I
1:25:59
have too many clients on my roster.
1:26:01
I have an athlete right now who's looking for an agent.
1:26:05
Check them out. Let me know if you're
1:26:07
interested. That's kind of how it works when
1:26:10
you have those mentors and those agents that you trust and that
1:26:13
you talk to. So that's kind of how we do it
1:26:16
in the basketball world is it's like, hey, I, I already have so
1:26:19
many clients on my roster. Is there, is there, do you have
1:26:23
space? And if you have space, are you
1:26:25
interested in this athlete? Yeah, that that's not unheard of
1:26:28
in the college track coaching world, too, where it's like,
1:26:31
hey, I've got my allotment of short sprinters is up.
1:26:35
I just can't. I have a cadre of coaches I
1:26:38
really trust. They're probably not in your
1:26:40
conference, I imagine. And so you call Joe on the way
1:26:43
West side away from me. Hey, you know, you might look at
1:26:47
Sally. I just I can't afford her.
1:26:49
I've got too many or whatever because but you trust people you
1:26:52
trust. That's interesting.
1:26:53
How much of your time is spent with your athletes on So there's
1:26:58
there's contract, there's a lot of things, but you know,
1:27:01
contract negotiation when that time is right.
1:27:03
And maybe that's always an ongoing thing because you're
1:27:05
always thinking about negotiating the next contract.
1:27:07
How much of your time is spent on trying to find the the next
1:27:14
brand deal for them, for them to get a, you know, Oakley deal or
1:27:18
what? There's a billion, you know, a
1:27:20
cereal deal, whatever. How much of your time is spent
1:27:22
on that? A lot.
1:27:25
It's like a, it's like an ongoing thing.
1:27:27
So because I'm also in the NIL space and I just got into the
1:27:31
track and field space, just got my first track and field
1:27:33
athlete. And so with that it's it's a
1:27:37
constant thing. So you're constantly trying to
1:27:39
figure out, all right, like one of one of my clients who goes to
1:27:44
Norfolk State just signed with Meta.
1:27:46
So Meta has this nil empowerment program Meta.
1:27:51
Is Facebook for people who don't know?
1:27:52
Yeah. OK, hold on now.
1:27:54
All right. Yeah.
1:27:56
So from that a lot of brands see that and they're like, oh, OK,
1:28:02
well, is she available for this, this, this, this and this?
1:28:05
So what happens is I have to look through all these things
1:28:07
and say, all right, she's not interested.
1:28:09
Or yes, she's interested. Let's get something going.
1:28:12
Like we, I have her, she's going to be in a parade, like a
1:28:16
Norfolk parade during homecoming.
1:28:19
And at that same time she's going, she her interview is
1:28:22
going to be going on on an MTV truck.
1:28:25
I've never been on an MTV truck. So I don't know what that is.
1:28:29
But we got that opportunity for her from a nonprofit called Stop
1:28:35
the Violence 757 because she's so it's, it's figuring out, you
1:28:44
know, what that athlete likes, what the athlete doesn't like
1:28:47
and everything like that and trying to find everything in
1:28:50
between. So it's it's not only finding
1:28:53
the brands, but it's also putting them in contact with the
1:28:59
right nonprofits, the right events that's going on, trying
1:29:03
to get them on panels, a little bit of everything really is
1:29:08
trying to build up their brand and give them the the best
1:29:11
opportunity that we can. How much of it, and I'm glad you
1:29:14
mentioned Nili want to talk about that in a second, but
1:29:17
before that, so with your professional clients, how much
1:29:22
today, what percentage would you say is that a brand reaches out
1:29:27
or or shows interest when you reach out for for an athlete is
1:29:31
based on their actual athleticism?
1:29:34
I'm going to give three different things and maybe
1:29:36
there's a fourth. How much of it is there?
1:29:38
Is there athleticism? Like, oh, this kids, I gotta
1:29:42
break it because I'm old now, but this kids really good, you
1:29:44
know? So yeah, that's why we want our
1:29:45
brand attached to them. How much of it is looks?
1:29:49
You know, that's a part of it, whether it's male or female,
1:29:52
it's like, oh, they're not very good, but oh, OK.
1:29:54
They're, you know, in society they're deemed very good
1:29:56
looking. And or how much of it is, oh,
1:30:01
they're not very good. Maybe they look like me.
1:30:03
They're not that good looking, but they got a million followers
1:30:06
on social like and maybe there's a fourth factor or 5th what
1:30:11
what's the deciding factors for these brands to to show interest
1:30:15
in one in an athlete? So all those are factors.
1:30:19
The only thing you're missing is the location.
1:30:23
Oh. So 75. 7 Norfolk, VA area.
1:30:27
Yeah, yeah. OK, OK.
1:30:28
Yep. So if you have, let's say, let's
1:30:32
say you're University of Florida, right, And then you
1:30:34
have an athlete from Indiana State or we're not even going to
1:30:37
do that. We're going to say University of
1:30:39
Florida and then we're going to use Butler, right?
1:30:42
Yep. So Indianapolis and Gainesville.
1:30:44
Indianapolis, IN Gainesville, FL, OK.
1:30:46
Yep. So it's like, would you rather,
1:30:49
would a brand rather want to be used in Florida where the
1:30:55
University of Florida has so, so much of traction, you know, from
1:30:59
the football team, basketball team, whatever case may be even
1:31:02
even track, you can even go there.
1:31:05
Or would you rather go to Butler where there's not too much
1:31:09
traction, right? The Butler team, basketball team
1:31:12
isn't getting that many looks. The football team isn't getting
1:31:15
that many looks. You're going to go to Florida,
1:31:18
right? Maybe it depends on my.
1:31:20
It depends on my brand too. That too.
1:31:23
So it's it's all based off of your location, right.
1:31:27
It also depends on as much as they don't want to say it, how
1:31:30
like the type of athlete that you are, like are you a good
1:31:33
athlete or not? Like can you play or not Sure,
1:31:35
Sure. Yeah.
1:31:36
And it feels. Like that's the one that should
1:31:39
be the most like that. That should be the number one
1:31:44
factor, and that's not true necessarily.
1:31:47
There are plenty of people who are air quotes here not very
1:31:49
good in their sport that are getting great deals because of
1:31:53
some of these other factors, right?
1:31:55
And like you said, marketability, if you can be
1:31:57
marketed anywhere, that's exactly where you're going to
1:32:03
get your deals. And also if you have the social
1:32:05
media, So I tell people all the time, if you have, if you have
1:32:08
20,000 followers on your Instagram, but only 220 people
1:32:13
are liking your stuff, at some point you're going to say I got
1:32:15
ghost follower. And that's exactly what the
1:32:17
brand see as well. They're like, OK, you have
1:32:20
20,000 followers but you're only getting 220 likes.
1:32:23
So what is that going to do for us if you sign with us like
1:32:27
we're not getting any looks at all.
1:32:31
Yeah, though. OK, hold on, because I know
1:32:33
enough about social media. Let's pause there real quick.
1:32:35
I want to make sure flesh out this example you're giving up
1:32:37
Florida and Butler. What I'm hearing you say is
1:32:41
because of the national brand of Florida versus the national
1:32:45
brand of Butler, you're more apt if you're an athlete that came
1:32:49
from the University of Florida. Got it.
1:32:51
OK. When I heard you say regional
1:32:53
because you when you mentioned 757, that was important because
1:32:56
we've had another Gil podcast guest here, the head coach of
1:32:59
Hampton. So it was interesting when you
1:33:01
said 757 and and I know we're Norfolk is obviously.
1:33:03
So it was a bit of a cheat code, but I was like 0757.
1:33:06
I know exactly where that is because Maurice, where he's from
1:33:10
Hampton, he he he's a he's loves 75.
1:33:13
So that's his that's his, that's home.
1:33:14
But he so where I thought you were going and and this has to
1:33:18
be a little bit of a factor when you said which one are you going
1:33:21
to choose, the athlete who came from Butler or the athlete who
1:33:23
came from Florida? And I'm like, well, it depends
1:33:24
if if my brand like what's a like they're expanding, but
1:33:29
let's go with it. Have you ever heard of Bucky's?
1:33:32
Yeah, yeah. Have you ever been to one?
1:33:34
Oh, they're amazing, right. But if I'm, if I'm Bucky's and
1:33:38
and let's take away that we know they're spreading to Alabama and
1:33:40
Georgia. And I think Tennessee now
1:33:42
thinks, let's just say they're, you know, they're they're a
1:33:43
Texas based first and foremost, right In in that scenario, they
1:33:48
may not be interested in the Butler nor the Florida guy, but
1:33:50
oh, the Texas State kid that's in my state.
1:33:53
Like more people in Texas are going to care about a Texas
1:33:55
State kid than they are a Florida or a Butler.
1:33:58
I was trying to think of an Indiana like maybe Lucas Oil
1:34:00
because that's what the Colts. But I was thinking like Lucas
1:34:02
Oil maybe would be more interested in a Butler grad than
1:34:06
a Florida grad. But I see what you're saying
1:34:08
that the cachet of the of the of the undergrad comes with you a
1:34:15
little bit there. Yeah, which with the.
1:34:17
National brand. Yeah, which is hard to hear.
1:34:21
Like like a, like a Butler who's recruiting against the floor, a
1:34:24
kid and they're like, ah, it's either Florida or Butler.
1:34:26
And it's like, oh man, that stinks.
1:34:28
Like they may take less to go to Florida because, well, Florida's
1:34:31
going to mean more for branding deals that we used to talk about
1:34:34
it. You know, like, well, a Florida
1:34:36
on your diploma is going to get you more interviews than a
1:34:39
Butler. And maybe it's still I I don't
1:34:42
necessarily believe that, but in the branding sites like, well,
1:34:46
there's a lot more Gator alums and follower.
1:34:48
Not even alums, just followers of U FS Instagram than they are
1:34:52
is butlers. Yeah, I get that.
1:34:54
I get that, I get that. What did I put a pin in?
1:34:59
There was something I put a pin in and said let's come back to
1:35:01
that. So we're talking about do you
1:35:03
have Brandon deals? Oh, OK, OK, social media posts.
1:35:07
So I you know, do you follow? Come on, if you I'm about to
1:35:10
either help you or you're going to be like, yeah, duh.
1:35:13
Mike, do you follow or pay attention on social media to a
1:35:18
guy named Gary Vee? Gary Vaynerchuk?
1:35:22
Yeah, you better, right? Come on, man.
1:35:23
So I know, I guess that's my guy.
1:35:25
So I'm always, that's where I learned my stuff from, right?
1:35:27
So it's knowing that not everybody's going to be a geek
1:35:33
about social medias. Maybe a guy like me.
1:35:35
It's like when you said, you know, if someone has 20,000
1:35:38
followers, but you're only getting 200 likes, you know, a
1:35:40
brand manager, you know, someone who you're probably talking to
1:35:42
to try to make a deal is like, bro, what's to be a better ratio
1:35:46
than that? But for us who actually know
1:35:48
social media and how the algorithms are actually
1:35:50
changing, you're not getting the same reach organically today
1:35:56
that you were yesterday for crying.
1:35:58
Like, I almost think like, man, you got $20,000.
1:36:00
You got 200 likes are pretty good because there's so much
1:36:03
vying for everybody's attention. I mean, you can think about your
1:36:05
own scrolling through Instagram. How many do you, how many times
1:36:07
do you actually stop and and like it and part it, right?
1:36:10
Some you do some and there's plenty that I know you actually
1:36:13
did still see and maybe even it caught your attention, but for
1:36:18
one of 1,000,000 reasons you didn't actually like it.
1:36:21
And now that that that person's being penalized air quotes
1:36:24
because it's like, well, that that should have been 201, like
1:36:27
it's only 200. But and you may be like, man,
1:36:29
that was a really cool post. I just didn't except for for
1:36:32
millions of reasons why you don't actually actually like
1:36:34
it's there's a lot like going on with with that.
1:36:36
I wonder how much and their brand manager, hopefully that
1:36:40
means they got some kind of marketing spin to them as well
1:36:42
that they they're understanding at least paying attention to
1:36:45
what's going on the social media world and not punishing someone
1:36:47
just because of that. What what other factors are
1:36:50
there? So we talked about, you know,
1:36:52
maybe how good or not good they are in their sport.
1:36:55
We talked about maybe how society good looks they do or
1:36:58
don't have. We talked about maybe how many
1:37:02
social social media followers they have, maybe what undergrad
1:37:08
they went to. So what kind of national brand
1:37:10
is, you know, de facto attached them.
1:37:12
Any other factors that helps professional in this case maybe
1:37:16
WNBA because it's, you know, kind of where we're focused on
1:37:19
get brand deals. Yeah, I mean that's that's
1:37:23
pretty much it for the most part.
1:37:25
And the W doesn't really matter what team you're on.
1:37:27
It's it's all about exposure. You know, if, if people are
1:37:31
seeing you and their seeing your, your social media, they're
1:37:34
senior out there on podcast or it's getting to be and they hear
1:37:37
your story, they're like, hey, that story resonates with this
1:37:41
campaign that we're about to put out right now.
1:37:43
And then they're like, hey, we need to to be, you know, our
1:37:48
brand ambassador or endorse this product or whatever the case may
1:37:51
be. So I think as long as that that
1:37:53
the exposure is there and that you're also, you also have that
1:37:58
social media, your exposure is there and you're playing really
1:38:01
good. I'm more than likely they're
1:38:04
going to, they're going to find you.
1:38:06
You know, I over index on social media, meaning you know, I'm,
1:38:12
I'm on Twitter specifically all the time.
1:38:15
I, you know, I, I probably not not counting retweets and maybe
1:38:19
not even counting comment. I got comment more than I tweet,
1:38:22
but just on tweets. I probably tweet on average, I
1:38:26
don't know, 5 * a probably a little bit lower average,
1:38:29
probably 3-4 times a day on average, which is a lot when you
1:38:32
think of, you know, some people don't post 3-4 times a month,
1:38:34
right? I'm doing that daily.
1:38:36
And that's not including I, I probably comment on average 15
1:38:39
times a day and, and actually don't retweet all that much.
1:38:43
But but I'm, I'm pretty, I'm really I, I'd be an over I I
1:38:47
use, I'm over average. I'm above average in the amount
1:38:50
of times I use Twitter in a day. That means and it's true.
1:38:53
And you know, you maybe you've seen this.
1:38:54
There are people who are under average, meaning I'm not a
1:38:57
social media person for for many, many reasons.
1:38:59
I don't like it. It's dumb.
1:39:01
Who wants to hear about when I eat a sandwich and all that kind
1:39:03
of stuff, which that's not what social media is for.
1:39:06
But you're kind of, I'm kind of hearing you say, you know, hey,
1:39:09
if you don't have followers and engagement that way, I mean,
1:39:12
that's what they're these brands are looking at.
1:39:16
How do you counsel an athlete who says I don't, I don't want
1:39:19
to be on social? It's hard.
1:39:23
It's really hard because it's like you don't want to be on
1:39:27
social, but you want to do nil. Nil is kind of about social
1:39:32
media because if you think about it, when you do these deals with
1:39:35
Nil, they're asking you to post on whatever platform you're
1:39:41
stronger than TikTok, Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, LinkedIn,
1:39:45
whichever one you're best at or whichever one you're more
1:39:48
consistent on. They're going to say we need you
1:39:50
to make a feed post about this, and then we need you to make a
1:39:54
story about this, and then we need you to make a real about
1:39:59
this. But if you don't do social media
1:40:04
and you're not really into social media like that, it's
1:40:06
going to be extremely hard. For you to do it.
1:40:10
And and that's why I said they're they're looking at that.
1:40:12
So if you have nothing but say, for example, let's do track
1:40:16
athletes, if you have nothing but track photos on your social
1:40:18
media and you're not showing anything outside of track, they
1:40:22
don't know who you are. They don't know what you do
1:40:25
outside of that. They're like, I mean, they're
1:40:28
just a track athlete. Like I don't know if they are
1:40:33
into nature. I don't know if they drink
1:40:35
spring water. I don't know.
1:40:37
I don't know anything because all we see is them taking media
1:40:39
day photos and it's in their in their, their feed and that's all
1:40:43
we see. Yeah.
1:40:45
I think that's that. That's a really good piece of
1:40:48
advice that you're obviously giving to your clients.
1:40:51
If you're trying to attract brands, you don't know what
1:40:55
brands going to see you. So it's like, I think it's so
1:40:58
interesting. Like in the Track World, Quincy
1:41:01
Hall and Ryan Crowzer, they post a lot of their big fisherman
1:41:05
guys. They they fish a lot and they
1:41:06
kind of pay attention to it because my son is a big fish guy
1:41:09
too. But they'll post a lot of, you
1:41:11
know, hell, look at this bass I caught or oh, you know, can't
1:41:13
wait to go fishing after the track meter, you know, because
1:41:16
they're just being their authentic self.
1:41:18
One of those dudes is going to get some kind of, at least, I
1:41:22
won't say fairly, they could, but you know enough that they'll
1:41:24
be interested in deal from a bait company or a boat company
1:41:28
or fishing clothing. I mean, there's a lot, you know,
1:41:31
we think of fishing is like, oh, it's just fishing.
1:41:32
It's like, brother, a lot of businesses based around fishing,
1:41:35
they're going to get maybe, maybe this would be so cool.
1:41:38
What if Ryan Krauser has a, you mentioned earlier, like, you
1:41:42
know, if one of my clients wants to be in broadcasting or
1:41:45
something, I, I have to help them.
1:41:46
What if Ryan wants to get in broadcasting and and you know,
1:41:49
they they broadcast fishing tournaments and some executive
1:41:52
at ESPN sees Ryan and knows he's a great, you know, world record
1:41:56
holder and shop, but also sees all these fishing and goes, I
1:41:59
wonder if he would, you know, we need someone.
1:42:01
I wonder if you'd be interested. And that's the reason they call
1:42:03
him. And he goes on to become a great
1:42:05
broadcaster and whatever sport he wants to do.
1:42:08
But if you don't show that, no one knows.
1:42:11
And I love how you're you're like, I don't know if you drink
1:42:13
mineral water, like I love that. Like what?
1:42:15
Who, who is athlete John Smith off of being an athlete?
1:42:21
We we know. And those are important.
1:42:23
We need to know your need to, we want to know you're a great
1:42:25
athlete or whatever. But who?
1:42:27
Who else are you? Are you a math nerd?
1:42:28
Are you a video game nerd? Are you a fishing nerd?
1:42:32
What? Whatever.
1:42:33
That's where more brands can start seeing like, oh, wait a
1:42:36
minute. That means they reach that
1:42:37
audience or at least can speak to the audience.
1:42:39
So that helps me engage, you know?
1:42:41
Yeah. Or are you, are you like you
1:42:44
mentioned, you know, mentor, coach, mom, sister, all these
1:42:48
things? Are you teacher slash educator
1:42:52
with your clients as well of like, hey, here's how maybe you
1:42:56
should run social media. Here's some ways to improve
1:42:58
maybe your current social media and things like that as well.
1:43:01
Yep, We give, we give social media calendars out to all of
1:43:05
our clients just to make sure that, you know, they have an
1:43:08
example of what needs to be posted that day or, or whatever
1:43:11
the case may be just for that. They're just not posting at all
1:43:16
so that they have something. I always tell athletes
1:43:17
regardless if you have or regardless if the brand is
1:43:21
looking at you or not, post yourself using that.
1:43:25
If that's something you use everyday, tag them.
1:43:28
If you drink what core like water all the time, tag them.
1:43:35
Like if you wear a certain pair of spikes every time, tag them
1:43:41
like they have to see that you are a what they call a loyal
1:43:45
customer. And when they see that you're
1:43:48
loyal, they will go and they will.
1:43:50
They were like, oh, OK, so you're constantly sharing our
1:43:55
stuff. You're constantly using our
1:43:56
stuff. I think it's about time that we
1:43:59
we bring you on. Yeah.
1:44:00
You have a higher likelihood of that.
1:44:02
Yeah, I I agree with that. I'm so I'm, you know, I don't
1:44:05
know if I've ever mentioned this on the podcast.
1:44:07
I am. I'm a Fortnite geek.
1:44:09
I love playing Fortnite. And so I like watching this dude
1:44:12
named Ninja stream on twitch and stuff like that.
1:44:15
And, and he's huge. I mean, like he was the big guy
1:44:19
in that realm a while ago. Now he's just a big guy, like,
1:44:22
you know, plays Fortnite and, you know, on a daily basis, 10
1:44:25
to 20,000 people watch him play and he plays at 8:00 in the
1:44:28
morning. I, I have to watch him on video
1:44:29
on demand because I'm like, dude, you playing during work.
1:44:31
I can't watch it when you live. But anyway, but he'll, he'll say
1:44:34
things like, you know, because he'll, you know, he'll stream
1:44:36
for four or five hours, six hours at a time, right.
1:44:38
So he, you know, has to eat lunch and all these kind of
1:44:39
things and he'll say, you know, I'm more than Chipotle.
1:44:42
You know, they don't sponsor me, but they should now maybe I
1:44:44
shouldn't even mention them. And I'm like, bro, you ain't
1:44:46
never going to get mentioned if they don't know you love them.
1:44:50
And by the way, if you mentioned because you're ordering lunch
1:44:52
online or on stream and so you say it and they don't sponsor
1:44:56
you, well, they were never going to sponsor you anyway.
1:44:58
So you're not like, I don't think any.
1:44:59
I don't I can't, you know, coming from the business side
1:45:01
here, I can't think of Chipotle goes, oh, thank God, Ninja
1:45:05
mentioned US that saved US money.
1:45:06
Now we don't have to sponsor them because you want to get
1:45:09
more like, oh, I want him to talk about how great it is and
1:45:12
you know, maybe you have the logo on the stream.
1:45:14
Well, that we're going to pay for that if if that's valuable
1:45:16
to us. But if they weren't going to do
1:45:18
it, they weren't going to do it anyway.
1:45:19
So it doesn't matter if you do or don't just, you know, I don't
1:45:21
want to give them free advertising.
1:45:22
It's like, buddy, if they weren't, they weren't anyway,
1:45:27
and they're certainly not just because you say, well, I don't
1:45:29
want to mention the burrito bowl company that I use that, you
1:45:32
know, rhymes with papoltle. They're not then going to Yeah,
1:45:36
anyway, anyway, all right, since you let's let's wrap this up.
1:45:39
What is something that we didn't talk about on the sports agency
1:45:43
side that we should know? What you there's a lot of
1:45:45
curious people. What's something that maybe I
1:45:47
didn't ask or I should have asked?
1:45:49
What's something on the sports agency?
1:45:50
You're like, man, you know, people should know.
1:45:54
XI would say that what kind of got me where I am today is you
1:46:00
got to have that mindset of you don't know everything and you
1:46:03
got to have that mindset of I have to continue learning no
1:46:08
matter how far I get. And I think that shows something
1:46:12
in my career because every time something comes up regarding NIL
1:46:15
or being a sports agent, I'm going to it like I'm going to a
1:46:20
seminar or I'm going to a conference or I'm going to a
1:46:23
workshop to make sure that I'm gaining the additional education
1:46:27
that I need so that I can better support my athletes as well as
1:46:32
continue to grow the company. So that's that.
1:46:36
Make sure that you do have that circle of mentors.
1:46:40
Always network. It's funny because you brought
1:46:43
up the the Jerry Maguire thing. So the story or the movie that
1:46:48
that that was about Lee Steinberg is actually one of my
1:46:52
mentors. Yeah, because I said Drew is
1:46:56
like maybe the most popular Lee Steinberg is the the Grand
1:46:59
Poobah of of popular sports agency.
1:47:02
Wow. Yes, that's that's my guy.
1:47:05
I love that guy. Dude, yes, lots of lots of
1:47:10
lessons to learn from him. Yes, for sure.
1:47:14
And he has all the Nuggets. So.
1:47:17
But yeah, just continuously growing, continuously trying to
1:47:20
network with people. It doesn't matter where they
1:47:24
are, where you are networking, networking is key.
1:47:28
And I see this all the time. People say your your network is
1:47:31
your network. And that is so true because if
1:47:34
you're not networking with the right people, then you fall
1:47:39
short of those people that you could possibly network with,
1:47:42
taking you to the next level or even, you know, putting you
1:47:46
underneath their arm, leading you and guiding you in the right
1:47:48
direction. I think that's, that's what I've
1:47:50
gotten from my mentors is them leading me and guiding me in the
1:47:54
right direction and being able to ask them questions and lean
1:47:57
on them a little bit and say, Hey, I'm struggling here.
1:48:01
What advice do you have for me? And, and it's cool because
1:48:05
they'll, they'll answer me and they can be at a football game
1:48:09
or, or something like that and, and they're responding and still
1:48:11
answering. So it's super amazing.
1:48:14
I think I have maybe six or seven agents who are my mentors
1:48:20
trying to get more on the, on the trackside.
1:48:21
So I've been, I've been working on that, trying to get a few
1:48:25
more track people to be my mentors and stuff like that.
1:48:31
You said one of them hope she gets me back on LinkedIn.
1:48:34
But you know, you know, George, you know.
1:48:39
I love, you know, I asked you about sports agency and what we
1:48:44
should know and your advice that you gave there.
1:48:47
What I love about that is that's great advice for any career, you
1:48:51
know, specifically, we're talking to you know, vast
1:48:53
majority of track coaches here. That that that first advice, you
1:48:58
said I had to write it down. You've got to have the mindset
1:49:01
that you don't know everything. Well, that what a great piece of
1:49:03
advice for a track coach, sport agent, salesman.
1:49:07
I mean, boy, just a parenthood, just a a spouse.
1:49:11
You know, you mentioned your husband, you know, being a
1:49:13
husband or a wife, That's a good mentality.
1:49:15
I was like, I don't know everything because if I, if I
1:49:17
say I do, I'm just going to get in trouble.
1:49:18
So that's just great, great advice in general to even young
1:49:22
athletes have that mindset of I don't know everything.
1:49:26
And then then go learn it all. Go just keep learning, keep
1:49:29
learning, keep learning. I love that.
1:49:31
And then the, the, the idea of the role of mentors in your
1:49:35
life. I think that's just, you know,
1:49:36
that's a topic that probably comes up in 99.9% of every
1:49:41
podcast that we have here is man, if it weren't for coach so
1:49:44
and so, if it went for, you know, my parent or you know,
1:49:48
another coach that took me out of their wing, man, where would
1:49:52
I be? I don't know where I'd be.
1:49:54
There's, there's an old saying, if you want to go fast, go by
1:49:57
yourself. If you want to go far, go with
1:49:59
others. And boy, you know, I think we
1:50:02
all at least somewhat think long term.
1:50:05
So it means you want to go far. Well, that means you better go
1:50:07
with others and you better pack the bag and help others to get
1:50:11
to their destination as well. So I I love that.
1:50:14
All right, Chante, you'll end us up here as you stare into 2025
1:50:18
coming up seems like tomorrow, 2026, as you you know, you get
1:50:22
to define what the future is here.
1:50:23
What's got you excited? What kind of goals, excitement
1:50:26
do you have coming up here as you look into the future?
1:50:31
Man, we might have our first NBA draft pick this year or 2025
1:50:38
Yeah, hoping that we can bring back another title or something
1:50:46
this season and track, you know, but yeah that's that's mostly it
1:50:52
for the most part, just how I continue to grow the company,
1:50:55
make sure we're trying to make sure we can get a little more
1:50:58
attract people for NIL. So yeah, that's that's pretty
1:51:01
much it. I.
1:51:02
Love it. I love it.
1:51:03
Well, you know, it's one thing to you know, this is my third
1:51:08
career. You know, I was a track coach,
1:51:09
professional poker player now. So I didn't come here until I
1:51:12
was 30 years old. It's and you know, I'm pretty
1:51:14
good at what I do now, but I had to wait till 30 years old to
1:51:17
figure out like this is what I was put on earth for.
1:51:19
I was here. It was to uplift and honor track
1:51:21
coach track coaches and help serve them through track and
1:51:24
field equipment. You know, you found this, even
1:51:26
though, you know, you started this whole podcast off going,
1:51:28
you know, I didn't start running track until freshman year in
1:51:32
high school. I was like, Oh, wait, that's
1:51:33
that's the average. You know, there are plenty of
1:51:34
people who don't start till senior year or not until College
1:51:38
in the the reverse is true. You know, people start at six
1:51:40
years old, but you did start early, even though you you went
1:51:45
into college. Not, you know, your story is one
1:51:47
that you would maybe typically think like, oh man, since she
1:51:50
watched Jerry Maguire in high school, that's been her goal.
1:51:53
She won't be a sports agent. You didn't know that's what
1:51:55
you're wanted to do as you went into college.
1:51:57
And then you found this thing in junior year and boy, you know,
1:52:01
true sprinter here. You certainly weren't saving
1:52:03
your energy for this one. You took off.
1:52:06
That's starting going to happen on being a sports agent.
1:52:07
You're like, let's go and created your own company, your
1:52:12
own agency. That's really exciting.
1:52:14
I mean, that's just so fun to see the growth.
1:52:17
So just super excited as you continue to pour into young
1:52:20
people as a track coach, as you help young people transition
1:52:24
from collegiate athlete to, you know, professional world.
1:52:27
You, you know, what you do as a sports agent is not unlike what
1:52:31
we do as a track coach. It's what we learned today at
1:52:34
least. You know, the track coach we're
1:52:35
going to be much more focused on, OK, well, how do we get
1:52:37
faster or jump farther or whatever our event is?
1:52:41
You're doing very similar coaching things as a sports
1:52:44
agent. We're finding out, you know, how
1:52:46
do you how do you get your social media on point?
1:52:49
You know, we didn't touch on things like, you know, how do
1:52:51
you talk to media and stuff like that?
1:52:52
But I'm sure you're doing that. You're probably given maybe some
1:52:55
financial advice of like, hey, make sure you're putting money
1:52:57
away. Don't spend anything like you're
1:52:59
doing coach type activities, just in a different sport, if
1:53:03
you will, of professional athlete.
1:53:05
That's the sport, professional athlete, no matter what sport
1:53:07
they're actually playing. So it's really cool to see you
1:53:09
pouring into young people like that in all aspects of your
1:53:12
life, track, coach and and sports agency.
1:53:14
It's really neat, really neat. Thank you, I appreciate it.
1:53:18
Yeah, well, I'm so glad you joined us.
1:53:20
You know, I'm always I, I think everybody's story is super
1:53:23
unique and I want to share every track coach's story out there.
1:53:27
But, you know, there's some that I'm just always because I just
1:53:29
know nothing about it. And so I, you know, I have
1:53:32
certainly embraced your recommendation of, well, keep
1:53:36
learning. Like I'm, I'll always stay
1:53:37
curious. I just love being curious.
1:53:39
And so when I see this track coach doing both, it's like,
1:53:41
wait a minute, first of all, how do you do both?
1:53:43
Second of all, what is this? You know, I think I know what it
1:53:46
is, but I learned, found out, I don't know nothing.
1:53:48
So I'm so glad you, you joined us to to teach us all about it.
1:53:52
I really appreciate that. Oh, yeah, for sure.
1:53:54
And I'll tell you this last thing.
1:53:55
Yeah. Oh, I'm part time, so I have
1:53:58
time where I can just dip off places, you know?
1:54:00
So the Final Four, you can't reach me.
1:54:04
That's track coach. I'm.
1:54:05
I'm unavailable during the Final Four.
1:54:09
Hey, I hear and and I bless that because you know what I see is
1:54:13
the over indexing of the other side where track coaches, we
1:54:16
make our identity #1 as a track coach.
1:54:19
And you know, there's no bigger fan of track coaches than this
1:54:21
guy right here. But that's got to be like your
1:54:23
third or fourth identity. You know, you're a, you know,
1:54:26
wherever you are in your faith, you're a husband or a wife, you
1:54:29
know, your spouse, you're a son or a dot.
1:54:32
Like there's other roles that are more important than track
1:54:34
coach. So I, I love, I recommend I, you
1:54:37
know, chastise some coaches are like, hey, man, you need to take
1:54:39
a vacation. You need to have another hobby.
1:54:41
There's got to be something, it can't be 24/7 track, track
1:54:45
coaching. It can't be, I don't know how
1:54:48
many people are successful. So I love that you have this,
1:54:51
you know, other life, if you will, you're kind of like
1:54:53
Batman. You put on your suit and then
1:54:54
bam, I'm a sports agent. So I think it's super, super
1:54:57
healthy and you know, wouldn't surprise me even as your agency
1:55:00
is going to continue to grow, no doubt you're going to be very
1:55:02
successful there. Something tells me you're going
1:55:04
to keep some kind of toe in the water track coaching where it
1:55:07
might diminish time wise. So maybe it's, you know, you,
1:55:10
you volunteer for a youth program a couple days a week,
1:55:12
but there's something that tells me you're going to, there's
1:55:15
going to be a little bit of, there's always some segment of,
1:55:17
of track coaching in there and we're going to be better for
1:55:21
that's for sure. I think you can see the future.
1:55:24
You know, I get decently at it. My wife never believes me, but
1:55:28
it always comes true. Now, Shantil, thank you so, so
1:55:32
much. You know, the most valuable
1:55:33
thing that you can give me is your time.
1:55:35
And I know, gosh, you know, you're running two things full
1:55:37
time. So you know, I know how valuable
1:55:39
your time is. Really, really grateful that
1:55:41
you'd send sit down and spend some time with us and help
1:55:44
educate us and share your journey.
1:55:46
Your journey is important. And so just really appreciate
1:55:48
your openness and authenticity today.
1:55:50
It's going to help a lot of people and I hope you had a good
1:55:53
time with it as well today. Yes, for sure.
1:55:56
Thank you for having me. Awesome, love it.
1:55:57
Thank you guys for being here. You know, I'm humbled, always
1:56:00
amazed at how many of you choose to press play on a weekly basis
1:56:05
for this podcast. And you know, I know it's very
1:56:07
small part due to me, meaning, you know, I help provide the the
1:56:10
the avenue to do this. But I know it's a huge part of
1:56:13
these men and women that, you know, it's not easy to sit down
1:56:16
here and kind of bare your soul of where you've been and what
1:56:18
you did and how you did it and things like that, knowing that a
1:56:20
lot of people are going to listen.
1:56:22
But I'm always grateful that they do.
1:56:24
And I'm always grateful that you're here to listen and watch
1:56:26
this as well. So join us next week.
1:56:28
We'll do it all over again and have some fun.
1:56:30
Thanks guys. Have a good.
1:56:32
If it goes to appreciate the coach the ones that point people
1:56:35
most every season needs a voice of reason speaking the growth
1:56:38
you got to bet before you carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
1:56:42
For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
1:56:45
zone which you packing for the road.
1:56:47
There's more than one way to go taking those that's paying
1:56:49
you're told it ain't practice. If your purpose ain't clear, it
1:56:52
can't happen until you listen. With both is can't mentor
1:56:55
without a mentor of years of experience.
1:56:58
You can reinvent those years Every plan's got to stand and
1:57:01
deliver to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
1:57:04
It's a choice and the fight not a win or lose.
1:57:06
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
1:57:09
It's not about how to, it's all about why you don't know till
1:57:12
you know who you are inside 6,000,000 Waste of time, choose
1:57:16
none. So we y'all cross the finish
1:57:17
line. The work ain't done so we learn
1:57:19
from the experts but y'all got to put in the leg work.
1:57:22
Guil Athletics use the network. It's all about connections put
1:57:25
together for the profession to where every track coach could be
1:57:28
blessing.