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A Look At Markets, Amazon, And Facebook's New Name · Bloomberg Intelligence

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney alongside
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. All Right, one of
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the big big stories on the Bloomberg terminal today, Amazon
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: discloses a steak in e v maker Rivian. Ed Ludlow
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: joins us from uh San Francisco. Ed, big story here,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: big names. What's Amazon doing? Yeah, it's interesting because we've
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: reported the influence that Amazon had over this company already.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: You know, just for the audience. This is a company
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: that's made very few vehicles on talking tens of units
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of battery electric pickups, but is really closely followed because
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Amazon is also a customer of Rivian. They've ordered a
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: hundred thousand delivery vans. You know, we we've known that
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: they've made private investments along the way in this company.
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: But stake in a company that's about I P O
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: is is important right as part of market functioning. UM.
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  Speaker 1: But it's just you know it frankly adds evidence to
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  Speaker 1: the piece we put out last month that this is
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  Speaker 1: a company under immense pressure because it's biggest customer is
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: also one of its biggest shareholders, and it's kind of
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: pulling the strings of what Rivian is trying to do.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Why would Amazon not just out right by this company.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: It's a great question because Amazon has taken that approach
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: in the past. If you think about its efforts in
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  Speaker 1: autonomous driving, it bought Zooks. Now, the context there was
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: that Zooks was struggling, it was desperate to raise money, um,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: and you know it was basically shopping itself around. UM.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So it has taken that approach in the past. But
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: you know, Rivian is run by this guy R. J. Scaringe,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: a PhD holder from m I T. He has big
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: dreams and visions for electric vehicles. You know, they are
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: already making their own vehicles for consumers right a battery
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: electric pick up. They're already coming off the assembly and
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: limited deliveries. And you know, this is a story about
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: a founder and a guy who's built a company really quickly.
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: But in order to get to this stage, he's had
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: to make compromises, and the Amazon stake of seems to
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  Speaker 1: be the biggest compromise of all. Do we know, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's interesting here. Amazon's invested more than one point three
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars in this automaker. They have about a hundred
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and fifty million shares of preferred stock, but the voting
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: do we know what their voting power is here? Because
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  Speaker 1: it just feels like, as you suggested in your reporting,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: that they're really in control here. This is what's kind
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: of fun about the story that when Rivian filed its
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  Speaker 1: S one, remember the S one's in right and it's public,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: they said Ford has a stake of more than five
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: percent in Rivian. They said t ro Price has a
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: stake of more than five percent in Rivian. You know,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: these big names or x UM. Other investors include Fidelity,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: black Rock. But the Amazon stake was redacted very high up,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: you know, And so now we know that the ownership
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  Speaker 1: interest is um you know, and you'd assume that the
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: voting rights are proportionate based on the volume of preferred
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: stock that's been issued. Amazon has about a hundred and
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  Speaker 1: fifty million shares of preferred stock. So well, I don't
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: have to tell you this because you have the privilege
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: of covering them all for us here at Bloomberg. But
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of players in the e V space.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's a market that's getting very, very crowded, and and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: there's kind of this narrative out there that they're not
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: all going to make it. Does an investment from Amazon
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  Speaker 1: make Rivian one of the ones that's going to have
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: that sticking power? Yeah, I mean according to sources, as
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: we've reported, you know, the valuation of eighty billion dollars
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that Rivian is seeking in its i p O is
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: based largely on the fact that Amazon is an investor
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: and a customer. You know, you saw the influence of
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: the hurt steal with Tesla this past week. For example,
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  Speaker 1: the infancy of EVS was about selling to consumers gaining
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: traction EVY adoption. But now you're seeing corporates come in
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: and decide about their policy with regards to carbon reduction,
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  Speaker 1: and you can see the power of a big corporate
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  Speaker 1: placing a mass order. So Rivian kind of hit that
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  Speaker 1: sweet spot, right. It has three products to consumer ones
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  Speaker 1: and then the Amazon Van. The Amazon van gives it
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  Speaker 1: guaranteed revenue. It's a contract for a hundred thousand vans.
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  Speaker 1: We know that, we know what the deadline is and
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  Speaker 1: they're on track to meet it. And as we reported,
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  Speaker 1: according to sources, there's some great perks in the deal,
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  Speaker 1: like they get recurring software revenues. Amazon pays them basically
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  Speaker 1: for over the air updates for the duration of the contract.
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  Speaker 1: It's a great thing to have. But as we've also reported,
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  Speaker 1: Rivian have had to make some sacrifices and put those
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  Speaker 1: consumer products on the back burner because if Jeff Bezos
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  Speaker 1: is one of your biggest shareholders, right and he is
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: expectations because he tweeted after we published the story saying,
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  Speaker 1: Hey r J, where's my vans? Um? You know, you
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  Speaker 1: can imagine the pressure on that company's management team to deliver.
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  Speaker 1: Just lastly, and what do we know about the product
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  Speaker 1: that the van itself? Yeah, so the van can do
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  Speaker 1: up to a hundred and fifty miles in a single charge.
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  Speaker 1: It's very much a product for last mile delivery. Amazon
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  Speaker 1: already buys delivery and right from Mercedes, from Ram, from
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  Speaker 1: Ford um it's going to be a direct competitor to
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  Speaker 1: Ford's e transit van, which is interesting given Forward is
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  Speaker 1: an investor in rivian Um and you know it's it's
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  Speaker 1: I'm hearing it's having some supply chain issues because it's
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  Speaker 1: a bulky products. You need a lot of metal, you
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: need a lot of semiconductors. But you know, it's a
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  Speaker 1: simple design and it shares common battery and motor architecture
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  Speaker 1: with the consumer products. That's how Rivian's been able to
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  Speaker 1: put it off. That's kind of the key. The underlying
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  Speaker 1: technology is the same across all three products. Alright, thank
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  Speaker 1: you so much for bringing this story here. In this
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: reporting again, Amazon discloses steak and EV maker Rivian, So
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: a big, big validation I guess, if you will, of
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: the company's technology. Edlar Low, technology reporter for US at
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg News. He is based in San Francisco. All Right,
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: everybody's got their strategies for managing this market. Again. Equity
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: markets at or near all time highs. Interest rates uh,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: very much muted, but the tenure at one point five
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: seven percent. Our next guest focuses on the three bees.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: We're gonna get the latest on that. John Augustine, chief
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: investment officer for Huntington Private Bank Joints, is on the
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: home on the phone from Columbus, Ohio, where the Penn
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: State Knitney Lions are coming in this weekend to fight
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: the Ohio State University. John, thanks so much for joining us.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Talk to us about the three bees. How are they
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  Speaker 1: kind of guiding your investment outlook? Sir Paul, good morning,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and it is gonna be a good game in Columbus
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: this weekend. So the three be so number one, we
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: want to be bond light. Real yields are still too
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: negative for us in the bond world. We don't see recession,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: so to us, the sixty portfolio should be more of
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: a se So that's number one. Number two with respect
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: to the stock market, we've been here at a lot
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of rotate the value this summer and early now into
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: the fall. But our our equity team has stayed with growth.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: They've barbelled between growth and value, and that's worked for us,
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: that's worked for our customers. They've got good returns here
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: in October. So that's the second be barbell and stocks.
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: The third be is just broadened. And what would mean
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: by broaden is include some commodities, include some real estate
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: with your stocks and bonds. So make sure you're broad
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: in your conducts next year. Is going to be more
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: of an interest rate driven year, which could bring up volatility.
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: So we just want to make sure we're broad and
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: our conduct for our clients. So those are three bees.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's talk about a few of your
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: specific holdings, because I see within your top equity holdings
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: for a few of your strategies are Apple and Amazon,
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: and those two companies you know didn't do so well
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: when they reported after the bell yesterday. Are you a
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: buyer of the dip here? Not yet, we have to
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: see how it forms. So they're both that a little
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: over three percent today. Now. One interesting thing though for
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: our for our equity team, what we put on them
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: is a five percent limit on positions. The reason we
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: do that is a lot of our institutional customers have
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: a five percent limit or feeling on individual positions, so
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: that in many cases makes us fang light portfolios. So
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: as an example, Amazon's a little bit about six percent.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Excuse me, Microsoft and Apple reach six percent of the
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: S and P five, so that puts us at one
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: good point there, but Microsoft having a better month. So
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: we are in all those stocks you have to be,
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: but we do limit positions. So it's interesting you're just
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: love to get your thoughts here. Were more than halfway
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: through earnings, uh this cycle? What's your takeaway? Forward estimates
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: are not going down? So so current quarters up? You know,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the coming into the quarter it was plus percent estimate.
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  Speaker 1: Actual today looks like plus thirty six with a little
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: over half reporting after the company in the SMP five.
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  Speaker 1: What surprises us, though, Paul, is we haven't seen forward
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: estimates go down as much as current quarter estimates are
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: going up. That's unusual to us. That's a healthy sign.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: All right, Well, let's talk about the signs we're getting
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: from the bond market. I know you said seventy and
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: more appropriate portfolio allocation. But when you think about prior
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: to today, as of yesterday's close, an equity market and
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: an all time high, and you had a yield curve
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: that is telling you that there's some serious fear out
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: there about economic growth. How do you kind of square
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: those things? Well, what's really interesting to us, Keyley, is
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: the two year and ten year moves over the past,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: you know, just so far this month in Europe in
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: the US, because they're completely opposite. In the US, it's
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: the two year that's moving up. That signals to US
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: a more hawkish fe it in Europe. It's the ten
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: uere that's moving up. That sink signals to us our
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: fixed income team a more lenient ECB that wants growth
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: and it's not going to inhibit. So there's a big
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: difference between two and ten years yields US Europe, and
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: the Fed is going to have to thread that needle
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: next week. They don't want an inverted yield curve. They've
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: already kind of done it thirties to twenty. We don't
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: think they're gonna want to invert the yeld curve anymore.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: So they've got to thread that needle on tapering and
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: potential rate increases at their statement press conference next Wednesday,
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: John what's the give us a name or two that
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: you've recently edited to your profoilio and why Well, the
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: equity team has come into again under the Barbell theme.
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: So what they're looking at more now is coming in,
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: for instance, UM with a Parker Hannason, but the bringing
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: in Johnson and Johnson, so cyclical name, growth name coming
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: in with Caterpillar, but then bringing in Crown Castle into
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: some of the portfolios which we own and all three
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: of our equity portfolios, so they're coming in with a
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: barbell aspect. Usually they'll bring in a cyclical and they'll
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: bring in a growth at the same time, and we
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: like that approach. It's worked for us this year. Hey, John,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. We always love getting
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: your thoughts and some of the names that you and
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: your teams are looking at. Crown Castle, it's a great name.
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of work with that company back
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: in the day in the wireless space. John Augustine, Chief
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: Investment Officer, Huntington Private Bank, joining us on the phone
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: from Columbus, Ohio, home of the Ohio State University, which
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: we're welcoming in my pen lines. I know I'm putting
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: that out to Matt, so it should be fun. I
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: want to bring on Brenda O'Connor, Senior vice president, Financial
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: advisor for UBS International. Brenda, thanks so much for joining
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: us here. You know, we love to to speak to
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: you and just get a sense of you know, what
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: your clients, what your individual clients are asking you. Today.
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: We've got markets you know, making backar nearar all time highs.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: We've had very strong third quarter earnings. What are you
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: hearing the most from your clients? Well, thank you for
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: having me right. You know, nervous, There risk some nervousness
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: about Q three earnings because investors just weren't sure how
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: bad the damage was going to be from three things
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: really delta, supply chain issues and increasing input costs. And
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: here we are well into Q three earnings, two percent
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: of companies have exceeded expectations and markets are up twenty
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: three percent year to date. So when I'm looking at
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: my client portfolios, I can't help but think we're up
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: eight percent last year, We're up a dred percent from
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: the March lows. Maybe it's time to de risk a
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: little bit, and we're looking to private assets to do that.
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: That being said, we are so positive on equities. We
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: think the SMP will be at around for eight hundred
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: by next June and five thousands by the end of
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: next December. Well, I feel like we've been having this conversation,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: and granted we have had this conversation many, many, many
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: many times, but the death of the sixty forty portfolio
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: and whether that's a strategy that still works. When you
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: say you're looking to de risk a little bit, how
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: do you think about kind of that ratio in your
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: portfolio allocation. Right, So, right now, we really really like
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: private real estate. It is a great inflation heads and
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: we can talk about that more a bit later. It's
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: a diverse fire to equities, and it's also great source
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: of income and giving given more fixed income, Marcus that
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: that's super important. We're also not too concerned about these
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: lofty valuations or the prospect of a housing bubble. Think
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: of this. In the US, there's a five point five
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: million deficit of housing units because construction has dragged for
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: the last two decades. It's going to take another ten
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: years to make this up, which is great for the sector.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: And as vacancy rates are under five percent, which they
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: are now, that's great for landlord pricing powers. We really
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: like allocating to real estate, private real estate, given where
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: markets are right now. So Brannan, you're in South Florida,
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: and I love to get a sense of kind of
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: what's that market like down there? Is it is robust
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: is people make it out to be. We've got obviously
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of folks here in the New York metro area,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: you know, making their migration down there in this time,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: not temporary, not seasonal, bit more permanent, right And you
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: can see that everywhere in terms of real estate prices,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: you can you can see that in terms of the
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: influx of New Yorkers and finance professionals, tech professionals. In
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: terms of an investment perspective, I've also noticed that the
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: appetite for international is somewhat different than we see in
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: other parts of the country. So, for example, we're really
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: looking to China right now. We downgraded China over the
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: summer on the back of the regulatory crackdown and education
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and gaming. Chinese equities are down year to day, But
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: we do think some of this is priced in. We
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: also think some of the fysical titany this person investors
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: tend to be under allocated to this region. So we
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: think there are opportunities in terms of green tech and
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: consumer durable, but in investment preferences for international seems to
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: be a little bit different in self Florida, given the
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: international dynamic of this market. While we're talking about the
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: migration to Florida, one of the reasons it's so attractive
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: is because of taxes. Frankly, especially compared to you know,
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: the New York tri state area where Paul and I
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: find ourselves. While we're talking about taxes. Given the quote
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: unquote framework that we've gotten in terms of what the
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: tax package is going to look like on capital Hill,
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: how does that affect your clients and what you're telling
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: them to do. Right, It doesn't change too much because
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: our expectations for for next year already factor in, uh,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: some some tax cuts. So let me talk about this
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: in the context of something like in growth UM. You know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: Q three obviously came in at much lower than we
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: saw in in Q two, at six point seven first
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: lower than the consensus. There wasn't anything too surprising here,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: given that the this was the first quarter with no
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: government stimulus, uh, none of the headwinds that we saw
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: earlier like delta or supply bottlenecks. We do expect Q
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: four to be much stronger. People are traveling again, hotel
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: occupancies above sixty five, open table reservation numbers have recovered
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: from their severe August September dip, and we do think
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: that UM GDP is going to be about five point
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: three percent for two. So all our expectations both on
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: on GDP inflation UM outlook do factor in, uh some
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: of those those tax sites that we're expecting to see.
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: So Brenda, in terms of equities, um, you know, for
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: those of your clients that have the courage to be
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: in the stock market where the sectors that you're suggesting
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: they focus on. When we're talking to our clients, it
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: is all about continuing to follow this positive earning story.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: We do not think that the reflection trade is quite
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: over yet. We still energy and financials. Think about financials alone,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: we've seen a record here in m and A for
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: the investment bank banks. Loan moss reserve continue to be
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: released and net interest margins will only start to look better.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: Is that ten uere inches towards one point eight and higher.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: The financials that have reported this quarter, by the way,
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: have been expectations by a margin of so financials is
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: scenario that we're definitely looking at right and we definitely
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: saw some positive beats when it comes to the energy
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: complex to day with Exxon and Chevron and those buy backs.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: Man and Goldman sass talking about that, Paul and how
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: by backs could be even eight percent above the levels
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: they are this year. There's a lot of cash out there.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of cash out there. Hey, Brenda, thank
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us. We always appreciate getting
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: your perspective. Brenda O'Connor, Senior vice president, financial visor for
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: UBS International, based in the Greater Miami, Florida area. Lots
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: of news coming out of Silicon Valley this week. We've
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: got earnings and uh fast name had earnings from Amazon
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and Apple, and then also Facebook making a big, big
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: investment in what it calls the metaverse, and in fact
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: big enough that they are changing the name of the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: company from Facebook two Meta Technologies, Inc. I believe. Mark Berg,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and technology reporter for Bloomberg News, joins us on the
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: phone from San Francisco. Mark, What is meta? What is
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: the metaverse? What is Facebook doing here? Actually? I think
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: it's meta platforms. What's kind of confusing is they're what
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: they're not doing is they're not doing what what Alphabet
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: Dead or Google did six years ago, which is sort
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: of form a new parent company that that have houses
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: a bunch of different companies. They're sort of renaming themselves
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: but keeping the brand. And part of the idea to
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: here is that Mark Zuckerberg, the CEO, as just sort
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: of betting on Facebook's future being in augmented reality and
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: what he calls the metaverse, which is sort of this
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: a vague idea from science fiction that we will be
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: able to like engage with with each other in mental reality,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: spaces and virtual reality using some sort of all to
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: find headgear. At this point it is an oculous device.
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: But during the presentation, Sorry, Zuckerberg also showed off service
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: smart watch and talked about glasses as well. Well, it's
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: one thing to decide your company's future, you know, looks
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: like that, and you're going to push more into the
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: meta metaverse in this augmented reality. You can still do
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: that without rebranding entirely and without changing the name of
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: your company, Which makes me wonder how much of this
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: is actually because Facebook found itself in very hot water politically.
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: There's been a lot of negative news flow over the
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: last several months. Really is this also kind of pr related?
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: We saw a lot of people came out with the
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: comparison to Philip Morris from two thousan three a belief
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: when they re branded, and certainly Facebook has been called
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: by critics the new tobacco um. You know, they addressed
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: us very briefly guest during the presentation, there was sort
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: of a Interestingly enough, they had Nick Clegg, who was
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: the BP of Government Affairs speak and talk about how
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: they're when they're approaching the metaverse there going to bake
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: it a lot of the privacy and data controls that
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: arguably have not been part of Facebook from the onset.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Well and Paul I couldn't help but notice what represented
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: Alexandria Cossio curt Has tweeted after this and she talked
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: about the rebrand and she said meta as in, we
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: are a cancer to democracy, metastasizing into global surveillance and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: propaganda machine for boosting authoritarian regimes and destroying civil society
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: for profits. So clearly the progressives are not that impressed,
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: not that impressed. And Mark, I mean ten billion dollars
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: next year, that's kind of a big number, but I mean,
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I know it's for Facebook and they can afford in everything.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: Is the sense that this is something that they're going
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: to throw real money behind over the next ten years.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I think. So if you look at the strategically, you know,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: a key thing to focus on here is that Facebook
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: U has been sort of boxed out by Apple and
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: Google for it's an entire existence at least on the
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: mobile phone in the past decade. Right, So Facebook doesn't
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: own the operating system, which is this big existential concern
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: for them. You've heard them talk a lot about Apples fees.
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: They've really been challenged by Apple's ad tracking changes. And
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: this is the way for Facebook to sort of cleverly
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and I think strategically get ahead and say the next
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: computing platform, we not only are going to be there,
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: but we're going to be defining company investing the most
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: and and um clearly like Apple has been investing a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: lot in augmented reality, Google has a certain extent. Ten
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: billions seems like a lot on paper. I saw something
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: someone to say, like, you know, Netflix invest maybe twice
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: the amount in it's media right now. And this is
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: a both a I think investment in media, but also
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: in hardware, silicon and alto sort of technology that hasn't
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: been betted yet. Well that's a great point that I
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: understand the concept and the idea and they and kind
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: of you know the goal behind it, and yet it
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: still feels very esoteric and nebulous in a way. How
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: refined is this idea. I don't know for a fact
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: of how much the presentation yesterday was legitimate technology and
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: how much of it was Um, stimulation. It seems like
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: a fair amount of it was was stimulated, and they
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: talked about this is something that we're hoping the next
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: five or ten years. Um. You know, we saw any
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: helpless note to say, this is not the iPhone moment.
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: There's no actual device, there's no actual kind of this
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: is uh an imagine well, which which to um, you
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: know Facebook defense. This is something that Google has been
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: doing too, where they talk about, here are these projects
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that we're working on and then give a demo of
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: a thing that doesn't actually work. Mark internally, How concerned
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: is the company, the board, senior executives about the backlash
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: from Washington and regulators and just the public in general. Um,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: you know, we had Emily Chang had senior executive on yesterday.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: We answered this, I thought in a really telling way. Um,
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: it didn't seem that concerned. I think that they are.
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: They don't see advertisers leaving as far as they know. Um,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: they don't seem as concerned about it about a breakup. Um,
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: clearly this has been you know, they are they're kind
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: of their positions so far at least both sort of
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: on on the PR side. And then I could say
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: politically has been the fight back a little bit and
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: the pushback on this and to make this a broader
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: issue around not just Facebook but with social media and
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: and to that point, you know, the lawmakers right now
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: are not writing laws about Facebook. They're writing laws about
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: the laws that will effect TikTok, YouTube, Twitter, the rest
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: of the like as supported digital platforms. Hey, Mark, thanks
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us giving us that update. Here.
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: Mark Bergen, technology reporter for Bloomberg News, joining us on
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the phone from San Francisco. Thanks for listening to the
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews
• 24:02
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• 24:06
  Speaker 1: Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller nineteen seventy three.
• 24:10
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• 24:13
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• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio.