Transcript

Sharri | 6 October · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Good evening. Massive show tonight. Angus Taylor is live with
0:10
Speaker 1: his major new immigration policy. And I have a big
0:13
Speaker 1: exclusive on the leadership pressure building on Anthony Albanese and
0:17
Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers from within their own party over the cost
0:21
Speaker 1: of living crisis. Huge lineup of guests tonight. Angus Taylor,
0:25
Speaker 1: Ray Hadley, Jennifer Westacott and more. But let's start with
0:30
Speaker 1: the leadership turmoil inside the highest level of the Albanese government.
0:35
Speaker 1: Labor sources are calling either for Anthony Albanese to step
0:40
Speaker 1: down or to dump his treasurer to stem the loss
0:44
Speaker 1: of votes. There's immense pressure building on both Albanese and
0:49
Speaker 1: Chalmers to fix their handling of the cost of living crisis.
0:53
Speaker 1: Labor backbenchers are, for the first time, feeling the heat
0:57
Speaker 1: in their electorates. And the New South Wales right is
1:01
Speaker 1: furious that the toxic Albanese government could cost Chris Mintz,
1:06
Speaker 1: the upcoming New South Wales election. The sense is that
1:10
Speaker 1: something has to give. And Labor sources are saying either
1:15
Speaker 1: Albanese or Chalmers need to go. And Labor sources told
1:19
Speaker 1: me today that Albanese knows there's a problem and he's
1:23
Speaker 1: blaming his treasurer. But he's not inclined to dump the
1:27
Speaker 1: treasurer because it would be catastrophic for Albanese personally. The
1:32
Speaker 1: source told me he would worry it would be an admission.
1:35
Speaker 1: It would look panicked and would create internal instability. But
1:41
Speaker 1: the source said backbenchers were starting to fret, were worried
1:45
Speaker 1: and getting a lot of heat in their electorates. Former
1:48
Speaker 1: Labor State Secretary Cameron Milner, he's very connected and he's
1:52
Speaker 1: spoken to his contacts in the party and he's standing
1:56
Speaker 1: by to come on the show. But he's now gone public.
2:00
Speaker 1: to say that there's discussion in Labor circles about whether
2:05
Speaker 1: Jim Chalmers should be dumped and whether or not the
2:08
Speaker 1: transaction cost politically is too high. Others say it could
2:13
Speaker 1: be a circuit breaker. Cameron Milner says tonight either Albo
2:19
Speaker 1: or Chalmers are seen as needing to be rolled as
2:22
Speaker 1: a circuit breaker against One Nation and show voters Labor
2:26
Speaker 1: is serious about the current economic crisis. He writes that
2:31
Speaker 1: Labor's economic and electoral crisis are firmly intertwined. And as
2:37
Speaker 1: much as it's been Albo's failure to back Chalmers, it
2:40
Speaker 1: now looks like Chalmers will have to pay the ultimate price.
2:45
Speaker 1: That's Cameron Milne. As I said, he's standing by to
2:48
Speaker 1: come on the show. But he adds that the relationship
2:51
Speaker 1: between Albanese and his treasurer is dysfunctional. He says Chalmers
2:56
Speaker 1: is in a world of hurt and also has a
2:59
Speaker 1: prime minister that briefs against him and just plain doesn't
3:03
Speaker 1: trust either his judgment or loyalty. It seems that the
3:09
Speaker 1: prime minister's office is sending Andrew Charlton out there more
3:13
Speaker 1: and more to try and sell the economic message. Here
3:18
Speaker 1: was Charlton eating a proverbial sandwich for the prime minister
3:22
Speaker 1: on sunrise this morning.
3:25
Speaker 2: Live now to Dr. Andrew Charlton, Assistant Minister for Technology.
3:29
Speaker 2: Welcome to you. So OpenAI has faced no consequences in
3:33
Speaker 2: Australia so far for this breach. As far as we know,
3:36
Speaker 2: how will the government hold them accountable?
3:40
Speaker 3: Well, Nat, after the breaches of the last few weeks,
3:43
Speaker 3: big tech has some big questions to answer.
3:46
Speaker 2: Let's talk card surcharges now.
3:49
Speaker 1: Everyone's talking about this.
3:50
Speaker 2: As you know, the Prime Minister, all over social media, saying,
3:53
Speaker 2: we are making your coffee cheaper. The opposite has happened.
3:57
Speaker 2: People say the price of their coffee is rising, sometimes
4:00
Speaker 2: by as much as 50 cents or a dollar. You
4:03
Speaker 2: have a doctorate in economics. Did you see this coming?
4:08
Speaker 4: Well, now let me explain to you what we're doing
4:09
Speaker 4: here and why we're doing it.
4:11
Speaker 3: We have an important principle that the price you're quoted
4:14
Speaker 3: is the price that you pay. The fact here is
4:16
Speaker 3: that nearly nine out of 10 Australian businesses don't surcharge.
4:21
Speaker 3: And what that means, because the government has reduced the
4:23
Speaker 3: cost of payment as part of these reforms, a lot
4:27
Speaker 3: of those businesses will actually be better off. That's good
4:30
Speaker 3: for the businesses and it will be good for the consumers.
4:33
Speaker 1: Andrew, are you talking to the businesses?
4:35
Speaker 2: Because that's not what Australia is saying.
4:38
Speaker 1: They are saying this is tipping them over the edge.
4:41
Speaker 2: They've had all these other costs and now this is
4:44
Speaker 2: the last one and they're passing it on to the customer.
4:48
Speaker 3: Now, nearly nine out of ten Australian small businesses don't surcharge,
4:52
Speaker 3: and what we've done for those businesses is reduce the
4:55
Speaker 3: interchange cost, which means they will pay less every time
4:58
Speaker 3: one of their customers taps their card.
5:02
Speaker 1: And Andrew Charlton was out as well over the weekend.
5:05
Speaker 1: He's seen as trusted and experienced with real-world experience. But
5:11
Speaker 1: the issue is the economic policies themselves. The issue isn't
5:15
Speaker 1: the salesmen. Cameron Milner says that Chalmers must know how
5:20
Speaker 1: much trouble he's in when his aunt's rival for the
5:22
Speaker 1: role of Treasurer, Andrew Charlton, was his biggest backer on
5:26
Speaker 1: the weekend. And here was that defence of the Treasurer.
5:31
Speaker 3: Jim Chalmers is doing an extraordinary job in very difficult
5:34
Speaker 3: global circumstances. He has shown a willingness to take on
5:37
Speaker 3: the big challenges facing Australia, including challenges in the housing
5:41
Speaker 3: market with difficult reforms.
5:43
Speaker 1: And Well, of this, Milner says that just like a
5:47
Speaker 1: Scott Morrison hug and a he's my guy line, a
5:50
Speaker 1: Charlton pat on the back for Chalmers is actually a
5:53
Speaker 1: reconnaissance mission for where to place the knife. Metaphoric, of course,
5:59
Speaker 1: that is brutal. So there's the fact that Labor backbenchers
6:03
Speaker 1: are nervous, anxious and angry. But there's a second issue
6:06
Speaker 1: to the New South Wales right. I broke the story
6:10
Speaker 1: last week that Chris Minns could lose to One Nation
6:13
Speaker 1: at the state election in five months' time. Now, he's
6:17
Speaker 1: a popular premier, and the fact he's facing a loss
6:21
Speaker 1: is entirely due to Albanese's toxic brand and the disastrous
6:26
Speaker 1: economic decisions they've made. Chris Minns is from the right
6:30
Speaker 1: faction of the Labor Party, the same faction as Albanese
6:34
Speaker 1: leadership rival Tony Burke. And pressure is building on the
6:38
Speaker 1: Albanese government from the New South Wales right to fix
6:42
Speaker 1: their handling of the economy, which is driving voters to
6:45
Speaker 1: One Nation. The attitude is they're not going to let
6:49
Speaker 1: Mins go because federal Labor has stuffed up so badly.
6:55
Speaker 1: This crisis is because of Labor's handling of the economy,
6:59
Speaker 1: where inflation is out of control, interest rates are rising,
7:02
Speaker 1: the cost of living is hurting families, And small businesses
7:06
Speaker 1: are suffering because of government policy. The Albanese government may
7:11
Speaker 1: not care about small businesses, but they do care about
7:15
Speaker 1: their standing in the polls. And right now, something has
7:19
Speaker 1: to give. And we're standing by for the opposition leader,
7:26
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor, who'll join me with his big migration policy today.
7:30
Speaker 1: But for more on this now, I'm joined by former
7:32
Speaker 1: Labor State Secretary Cameron Milner. Cameron, how worried are Labor
7:36
Speaker 1: backbenchers and even ministers about how Labor is handling the
7:40
Speaker 1: economy and the political consequences of this? I think Cameron
7:47
Speaker 1: might not be able to hear us. Have you got us, Cameron?
7:49
Speaker 1: Can you hear me?
7:50
Speaker 5: I have now. Thank you very much.
7:51
Speaker 1: You have. I was just saying.
7:52
Speaker 5: Thank you.
7:53
Speaker 1: My question was how worried are Labor backbenchers and even
7:55
Speaker 1: ministers about how Albanese and Chalmers are handling the economy?
8:01
Speaker 6: They're deeply worried, deeply worried. And it's not just people
8:04
Speaker 6: talking to me. I mean, talking to other journalists as well,
8:06
Speaker 6: talking to people like yourself, Shari. They're deeply worried about
8:08
Speaker 6: where Labor's heading on the economy because we're in a,
8:11
Speaker 6: you know, It's a huge downward spiral filled with denials
8:14
Speaker 6: and lies, but all about the economy. And One Nation's
8:17
Speaker 6: on the rise. One Nation's not only hurting federal Labor,
8:20
Speaker 6: but they're also hurting Chris Minns, who I think is
8:21
Speaker 6: a fantastic Premier of New South Wales. But the story
8:24
Speaker 6: you broke last week just shows how much pressure Labor
8:27
Speaker 6: is under because of Albo's failures.
8:29
Speaker 5: But the difficulty is you can't remove Albo because of
8:31
Speaker 5: the Rudd rules.
8:32
Speaker 6: So they go to the next biggest person out there
8:34
Speaker 6: to pay the price for Labor's mistakes. And that's why
8:37
Speaker 6: the Treasurer, Jim Chalmers, is under such huge pressure tonight.
8:41
Speaker 1: So you're saying that hardheads have drawn up a short
8:44
Speaker 1: list of sacrificial lambs. As you just said, the rules
8:48
Speaker 1: make it almost impossible for Albanese to be removed, at
8:51
Speaker 1: least by caucus. Now, you're actually a supporter of Jim Chalmers,
8:56
Speaker 1: but you're saying that Labor sources are telling you there
9:00
Speaker 1: are calls for him to go.
9:01
Speaker 5: Well, the pressure is all about the economy.
9:05
Speaker 6: The pressure is all about economic management and Labor's failure
9:07
Speaker 6: to sell the message out of the May budget. And
9:09
Speaker 6: Jim Chalmers, unfortunately, in my column, I think it's a tragedy.
9:13
Speaker 6: Jim Chalmers is a reformer. Jim Chalmers actually wants the
9:16
Speaker 6: best in the economy. But every time he's tried to
9:18
Speaker 6: do something, Albo's cut him off at the knees, kneecapped
9:20
Speaker 6: by the Prime Minister, leaked against by the Prime Minister.
9:23
Speaker 6: So this is Jim's conundrum. So Jim May well pay
9:25
Speaker 6: the price for Albo's mistakes. Because as I said before,
9:29
Speaker 6: Albo's going to sit there for as long as he
9:30
Speaker 6: can because the Rudd rules allow him to stay, unfortunately,
9:34
Speaker 6: as a federal Labor leader, even though Labor needs to
9:37
Speaker 6: pay the price for the mistakes they've made.
9:39
Speaker 1: Now, the view is that the Prime Minister likes stability.
9:43
Speaker 1: This is what people told me when I spoke to
9:45
Speaker 1: them today, that, you know, he didn't move on Andrew
9:47
Speaker 1: Giles for a long time and even then, you know,
9:49
Speaker 1: he only moved him sideways. So wouldn't his political calculation
9:53
Speaker 1: be to stick it out until after the next election
9:56
Speaker 1: rather than risk, dumping someone so high profile as your treasurer?
10:02
Speaker 6: Well, that's true, except you've got a Victorian election in
10:06
Speaker 6: 60 days' time where One Nation's potentially going to do very,
10:09
Speaker 6: very well. And you've now got polling coming out of
10:11
Speaker 6: New South Wales' right's own machine saying that Chris Minns
10:14
Speaker 6: could lose.
10:14
Speaker 5: To One Nation.
10:15
Speaker 6: One nation is not even on the landscape in New
10:17
Speaker 6: South Wales. What is on the landscape in New South
10:18
Speaker 6: Wales is economic management and Anthony Albanese, who is despised
10:22
Speaker 6: and disliked. And so it's this toxic elbow vote and
10:25
Speaker 6: fixing that problem may well come at Jim's expense.
10:29
Speaker 1: And the New South Wales right in particular are pretty
10:33
Speaker 1: angry about this.
10:35
Speaker 6: Well, they're the original whatever-it-takes crew. I mean, Graham Richardson
10:38
Speaker 6: brought them up, taught them how to do it, and
10:40
Speaker 6: in the past they would have rolled a leader. If
10:42
Speaker 6: Albo's numbers were any other leaders, he would have already
10:44
Speaker 6: been in the wooden box, was a quote I got.
10:47
Speaker 6: So it's the rules that are keeping Albo in place,
10:49
Speaker 6: but the price for electors and voters to say that
10:52
Speaker 6: Labor's serious about the economy may well unfortunately be Jim Chalmers.
10:56
Speaker 1: That line you write in your column about Andrew Charlton,
11:00
Speaker 1: is this who you're tipping would replace Chalmers as Treasurer?
11:07
Speaker 6: Charlton's a talent. I mean, no one should hold him back,
11:09
Speaker 6: but he's clearly cutting himself out for the economic portfolio.
11:13
Speaker 6: He's clearly got the backing of Albo, who's using him
11:15
Speaker 6: to undermine Chalmers as well, you know, at every possible turn. So,
11:19
Speaker 6: I mean, Charlton's a great talent, but he's clearly ambitious,
11:22
Speaker 6: and I think he's ambitious to be Treasurer.
11:24
Speaker 5: All right.
11:25
Speaker 1: Cameron Milner, fascinating piece. And, look, not many other people
11:29
Speaker 1: are reporting this. I have done. I started making calls yesterday.
11:33
Speaker 1: Yesterday when we first spoke, look, whether or not this
11:37
Speaker 1: will happen, the fact is there are a lot of
11:41
Speaker 1: Labor backbenchers and others more senior who are deeply frustrated
11:47
Speaker 1: and unhappy with the handling of the cost of living
11:50
Speaker 1: issue and how that's appearing in the polls and the
11:53
Speaker 1: rise in One Nation.
11:55
Speaker 5: Absolutely, Shari.
11:56
Speaker 7: Yeah.
11:57
Speaker 5: All right.
11:57
Speaker 1: Cameron Milner, thank you so much. Well, today, opposition leader
12:01
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor announced what he described as the biggest immigration
12:05
Speaker 1: cut in Australian history. He's vowed to bring down net
12:09
Speaker 1: overseas migration to 100,000 people a year for the first
12:13
Speaker 1: two years, then 130,000 in the third year and 160,000
12:14
Speaker 1: in the fourth. He's also accused universities of not selling
12:22
Speaker 1: education but visa pathways. He says he'll abolish temporary graduate
12:27
Speaker 1: visas and he'll halve the humanitarian intake. The Coalition has
12:32
Speaker 1: taken this strong position in an effort to combat Pauline Hanson,
12:35
Speaker 1: with One Nation's primary now well above the Liberals and
12:39
Speaker 1: Nationals combined. And on the day of his big migration announcement,
12:43
Speaker 1: opposition leader Angus Taylor joins me now in studio. Thank
12:46
Speaker 1: you so much for your time.
12:47
Speaker 4: Great to be with you, Shari. Thanks for having me.
12:49
Speaker 1: Now, how did you settle on this figure of 100,000
12:52
Speaker 1: over the first two years?
12:54
Speaker 8: Well, can I say from the moment I got into
12:55
Speaker 8: this job, I said in terms of migration, the standards
12:59
Speaker 8: were too low and the numbers too high and both
13:01
Speaker 8: have to change. And that's exactly what we announced today.
13:04
Speaker 8: We have seen a record level of immigration under Labor,
13:08
Speaker 8: the highest we've ever seen in 1.6 million in just
13:12
Speaker 8: over four years, the population of Adelaide. And to give
13:17
Speaker 8: the country breathing space on this, housing, infrastructure, services, we
13:21
Speaker 8: have to have the biggest cut we've seen in the
13:24
Speaker 8: history of this country. And that's exactly what we have announced.
13:28
Speaker 8: That will give the country the breathing space it needs.
13:31
Speaker 8: We need young Australians to be able to get into
13:33
Speaker 8: a home. We need local and state governments to be
13:35
Speaker 8: able to, and federal governments, to be able to catch
13:37
Speaker 8: up on the infrastructure we need. We need to be
13:41
Speaker 8: able to absorb the record number of peoples that we've
13:43
Speaker 8: seen come to the country, and it's simply not working
13:46
Speaker 8: right now. Labor has left this in a mess. They've
13:49
Speaker 8: lost control of the borders. We need to regain control,
13:52
Speaker 8: and that's exactly what this is about.
13:54
Speaker 1: Just drilling down into the detail on this, you're saying
13:57
Speaker 1: there should be a focus on migration standards. That was
14:00
Speaker 1: your term today. What do you mean by standards? Is
14:03
Speaker 1: this character, is this nationality, country of origin, professions?
14:08
Speaker 8: Well, it's obviously skills. We need to bring the right
14:11
Speaker 8: people in for us, for what we need. But it's
14:14
Speaker 8: also values. And we need to bring people in who
14:17
Speaker 8: share our values, who can commit to our country and
14:21
Speaker 8: who believe in what we believe in, Shari. And there's
14:24
Speaker 8: been people coming to this country who do not meet
14:26
Speaker 8: that values test.
14:27
Speaker 4: The ISIS brides, for instance.
14:28
Speaker 8: I mean, seriously, they shouldn't be coming back to our
14:32
Speaker 8: country and But we also need the skills that will
14:35
Speaker 8: make our country stronger, our economy stronger. We've seen Labor
14:38
Speaker 8: grow the economy through population growth only.
14:41
Speaker 4: Nothing else. Nothing else.
14:42
Speaker 1: I'll come back to the economy in a moment, but
14:44
Speaker 1: I just want to stick with the standards and the character. Now,
14:47
Speaker 1: Australia has brought migrants into this country, as you say,
14:51
Speaker 1: who don't have the same values as us. In fact,
14:54
Speaker 1: one of them, Sajid Akram, went on to commit the
14:56
Speaker 1: nation's deadliest ever terror attack. How will your policy prevent this,
15:01
Speaker 1: given he was from India?
15:03
Speaker 8: Well, first of all, we'll establish a values-based immigration policy
15:06
Speaker 8: at the heart of our Immigration Act and everything we
15:09
Speaker 8: do on immigration. We'll re-establish the screening that is needed
15:14
Speaker 8: that Home Affairs had in place before the last election
15:17
Speaker 8: but was taken away by government, was dismantled by this government,
15:20
Speaker 8: we will put that back in place and we will properly.
15:23
Speaker 4: Resource and fund it.
15:24
Speaker 8: Mike Pizzullo was central in doing that. He was demonised
15:28
Speaker 8: by the government for doing this and other things. It
15:31
Speaker 8: was an egregious error. This, by the way, should be
15:34
Speaker 8: part of what comes out in the Anti-Semitism Royal Commission.
15:38
Speaker 4: We'll see if it does.
15:39
Speaker 8: But that should be in place and we should be
15:41
Speaker 8: screening the working with partner countries around the world against
15:45
Speaker 8: people who do not share.
15:47
Speaker 4: Our values and do not believe in our way of life.
15:50
Speaker 1: Do you think there needs to be more in-depth screening,
15:52
Speaker 1: given Sajid Akram came in in the late 1990s? Do
15:57
Speaker 1: you think we need far more, maybe new tech, to
16:00
Speaker 1: really drill down into someone's social media, their public comments
16:03
Speaker 1: as well?
16:04
Speaker 8: Yes, we should be using every possible avenue. to assess
16:07
Speaker 8: whether someone shares our values. And it's a lot easier
16:09
Speaker 8: to do that than it was 20 years ago. There's
16:11
Speaker 8: no question about that, Shari. And we absolutely should be
16:15
Speaker 8: doing this. And, you know, I announced this in our
16:17
Speaker 8: values based immigration policy many months ago. This is the
16:20
Speaker 8: first point I made about immigration is we need to
16:23
Speaker 8: get back to our core Australian values and who comes
16:25
Speaker 8: to our country and making sure that they are people
16:30
Speaker 8: who believe in our way of life. And you've just
16:31
Speaker 8: given an example and there are a number of others,
16:33
Speaker 8: of course. of people who clearly didn't. I have to
16:36
Speaker 8: say that the pilot who attempted to down that aeroplane
16:41
Speaker 8: in the Middle East a short while ago, he also
16:43
Speaker 8: came to this country on a visa. We now understand.
16:47
Speaker 8: And clearly that is not someone we want to have
16:50
Speaker 8: in our country.
16:50
Speaker 1: Although there are questions that he might have been radicalised
16:53
Speaker 1: while he was in Australia.
16:54
Speaker 4: That should worry us too.
16:56
Speaker 1: That's the report from the Financial Times, that he might
16:59
Speaker 1: have been radicalised during his two years from 2015 to 2017.
17:03
Speaker 1: In Australia, in terms of halving the humanitarian intake, which
17:07
Speaker 1: countries would you exclude?
17:09
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, the starting point here is to bring
17:12
Speaker 8: people in first and foremost who share our values. So
17:15
Speaker 8: if they don't share our values, they're out. They wouldn't come.
17:19
Speaker 8: It's not about individual countries. It is about individual people.
17:22
Speaker 8: And the reality is we should discriminate against the wrong
17:27
Speaker 8: people coming to our country. And that includes for humanitarian visas,
17:30
Speaker 8: but it's true for all visas, no matter what.
17:33
Speaker 1: But are there some countries of origin where you wouldn't
17:35
Speaker 1: take anyone, say terror hotspots like Gaza, but others as well?
17:39
Speaker 8: The risk is clearly higher from some places than others.
17:42
Speaker 8: And the many thousands of tourist visas that were issued
17:46
Speaker 8: to people coming out of Gaza, there are serious questions
17:50
Speaker 8: about that, and there should be. And I saw it personally. Days,
17:54
Speaker 8: a very short time after October 7, we saw this.
17:57
Speaker 8: happening in this country and it should not have happened.
18:00
Speaker 4: They should have been screened.
18:02
Speaker 1: Just returning to the economy now. You said today that
18:05
Speaker 1: migration has been kept high to hold up the economy.
18:08
Speaker 1: I think it's it's well accepted that high migration levels
18:12
Speaker 1: are the main reason we haven't fallen into recession. But
18:15
Speaker 1: the critique now is that your policy risks driving us
18:19
Speaker 1: into a recession. Do you admit this is a risk?
18:22
Speaker 5: No.
18:23
Speaker 8: And I'll tell you why. Because we're changing the standards.
18:26
Speaker 8: We are upgrading the skills of the people who are
18:29
Speaker 8: coming to this country. This should not be a guest
18:31
Speaker 8: worker economy. We have now almost 3 million. temporary visas
18:36
Speaker 8: that have been given out by this government. Three million
18:39
Speaker 8: people here on temporary visas. It's like an Airbnb. We
18:43
Speaker 8: should be a home, not a hotel. And yet we
18:46
Speaker 8: have those numbers. Now, we need to see a 650,000
18:51
Speaker 8: person reduction in those temporary visas. But as part of that,
18:54
Speaker 8: we want a stronger focus on skilled visas. The people
18:58
Speaker 8: who we need, whether it's in health care or aged
19:00
Speaker 8: care or on our farms or doctors, We know that
19:07
Speaker 8: there are skill shortages in the construction sector, for instance.
19:10
Speaker 8: We would open that up, focus on those skills. And
19:13
Speaker 8: we know, and this is the important point, we know
19:15
Speaker 8: those people with the skills we need will pay more tax.
19:19
Speaker 4: And the numbers here are startling. If you bring someone
19:21
Speaker 4: into Australia on a temporary.
19:23
Speaker 8: Skilled visa, they will pay over $ 30, 000 a year in
19:26
Speaker 8: tax compared with people on the visas that we're slashing annually.
19:32
Speaker 8: around $ 10, 000.
19:33
Speaker 4: So it's three times.
19:35
Speaker 8: So we know if you get the right people, you
19:39
Speaker 8: can cut the numbers and have the right..... and balance
19:43
Speaker 8: the budget and, importantly, make sure that you're not impacting
19:47
Speaker 8: the economy in a negative way.
19:48
Speaker 1: The business community has always... already expressed concern. Can you outline,
19:53
Speaker 1: you know, why the business community is wrong to be
19:56
Speaker 1: concerned about your policy and also which professions you would
19:59
Speaker 1: be having more of so that you're dramatically cut in
20:04
Speaker 1: migration didn't send us into a recession?
20:07
Speaker 8: Well, can I say, some in the business community, the
20:09
Speaker 8: property sector in particular, some in the property sector, who
20:13
Speaker 8: sadly have a business model that's just based on population growth.
20:17
Speaker 8: But we need a business model based on what's right
20:20
Speaker 8: for this country.
20:21
Speaker 4: We can't allow vested.
20:23
Speaker 8: Interests of any description to determine what we do on
20:27
Speaker 8: immigration policy.
20:28
Speaker 4: It's got to be what's right for our country.
20:31
Speaker 8: And can I say, a shift from the mass migration
20:36
Speaker 8: of labour to skilled migration, which is traditionally what our
20:39
Speaker 8: migration policy was, is what we need right now. A
20:43
Speaker 8: cut to the numbers, an improvement in the standards and
20:46
Speaker 8: the skills of those coming, that will be good for
20:49
Speaker 8: the economy. It will increase the productivity, the competitiveness and
20:53
Speaker 8: the tax paid by the people who come to this country.
20:56
Speaker 4: And that's good for all of us. In the end,
20:58
Speaker 4: that's good for all of us.
21:00
Speaker 1: As you said at the start of your press conference today,
21:02
Speaker 1: this is the biggest drop in migration in the nation's history.
21:06
Speaker 1: You've had to take this strong position, haven't you, in
21:09
Speaker 1: response to One Nation?
21:10
Speaker 8: Well, no, I'm doing this for our nation, for what
21:13
Speaker 8: we need. I mean, this is about what our country
21:16
Speaker 8: needs right now.
21:16
Speaker 4: The real response here... But.
21:18
Speaker 1: Coalition governments haven't done this before. The fact that you're
21:20
Speaker 1: going so hard, it's in response to Pauline.
21:23
Speaker 4: But we've never seen immigration numbers like we've seen under Labor.
21:26
Speaker 4: 550,000 in one year.
21:28
Speaker 8: They said that's in response to the COVID years, though.
21:32
Speaker 8: This is a government that never takes responsibility for anything
21:35
Speaker 8: under its watch.
21:36
Speaker 4: You know that, Shari.
21:38
Speaker 8: And they've done exactly the same with immigration. We have
21:41
Speaker 8: seen record levels of immigration, 1.6 million in just over
21:44
Speaker 8: four years. They've lost control of our borders. They've lost
21:47
Speaker 8: control of the standards. They've lost control of the skills
21:51
Speaker 8: of the people coming into this country. And that must change.
21:55
Speaker 8: And I tell you what, Anara, Canavan, Taylor, Government, coalition government,
21:59
Speaker 8: it will change. We are determined to change it because
22:02
Speaker 8: that is what is right for our country.
22:04
Speaker 1: Barnaby Joyce has accused you of coming up with One
22:07
Speaker 1: Nation policy in effect.
22:09
Speaker 4: Well, I don't know what One Nation's policy is.
22:12
Speaker 8: They've got 20 different versions we've heard over the course
22:15
Speaker 8: of time. But I'm focused on our policy and what's
22:17
Speaker 8: right for our nation, not for One Nation. And that's
22:21
Speaker 8: the crucial point here.
22:23
Speaker 4: When you've had record levels of immigration... You need.
22:26
Speaker 8: A record cut to immigration. It's as simple as that, Shari.
22:29
Speaker 8: We need breathing space. We need young Australians to be able.
22:32
Speaker 4: To get into a home. We need to be able
22:34
Speaker 4: to catch up.
22:35
Speaker 8: And frankly, if we continue to get what we're getting
22:38
Speaker 8: under Labor, it's going to get a hell of a
22:39
Speaker 8: lot worse before.
22:40
Speaker 4: It gets better.
22:41
Speaker 1: You've said you've had your policy costed by the Budget Office,
22:44
Speaker 1: the Parliamentary Budget Office. Will you be releasing this?
22:47
Speaker 8: Well, we've been doing budget analysis with the Parliamentary Budget
22:49
Speaker 8: Office all along. Of course, we'll put out election costings
22:52
Speaker 8: in the lead-up to the election.
22:53
Speaker 4: But what I can say... But for this policy.
22:55
Speaker 8: Well, Labor's baseline will change between now and the election,
22:59
Speaker 8: and the Parliamentary Budget Office knows that. That's why we
23:02
Speaker 8: put out final election costings close to the election. But
23:06
Speaker 8: what we have been doing is budget analysis... with the
23:09
Speaker 8: Parliamentary Budget Office and we are very confident that we
23:13
Speaker 8: can balance the budget with this. This is a balanced
23:17
Speaker 8: budget proposal package and it's achievable. This happens because we're
23:24
Speaker 8: not just cutting the numbers, we're raising the standards.
23:27
Speaker 1: But you won't be releasing that at this point in time?
23:30
Speaker 5: We have.
23:30
Speaker 4: We've put out the numbers.
23:31
Speaker 1: Budget costings?
23:31
Speaker 4: We've put out the numbers.
23:32
Speaker 7: OK.
23:33
Speaker 8: We've put out our budget analysis and, as I said,
23:36
Speaker 8: it's budget balance and that's achieved. Because the tax being
23:39
Speaker 8: paid by those coming in and replacing those visas that
23:43
Speaker 8: are being slashed is substantially higher. And that allows us
23:47
Speaker 8: to have less people, but with no cut to the
23:50
Speaker 8: revenues received.
23:51
Speaker 9: All right.
23:52
Speaker 1: Tomorrow is the third anniversary of October 7. There's a pro-Palestinian,
23:57
Speaker 1: they're calling it a vigil. Of course, it's not a vigil,
23:59
Speaker 1: a rally or protest planned for Town Hall. Now, this
24:04
Speaker 1: seems very reminiscent of three years ago on October 9
24:07
Speaker 1: when that rally started at Town Hall, the infamous rally,
24:11
Speaker 1: and ended at the Opera House. The New South Wales Premier,
24:13
Speaker 1: Chris Min, says he's in effect powerless to stop it,
24:15
Speaker 1: although he wouldn't like it to go ahead. Do you
24:18
Speaker 1: think authorities should be doing more to stop this and
24:21
Speaker 1: what can they do?
24:22
Speaker 8: Well, you know, the insensitivity of this knows no bounds.
24:26
Speaker 4: We saw the biggest loss of life outside of the Holocaust,
24:29
Speaker 4: a tragedy, atrocity, of course.
24:32
Speaker 8: I visited the music festival site, the Nova Music Festival
24:35
Speaker 8: site and the kibbutz where we saw some of the
24:37
Speaker 8: very worst of this in Israel.
24:39
Speaker 4: The attack from the Islamist extremists, Hamas. I mean, it
24:43
Speaker 4: was atrocious.
24:44
Speaker 8: And I have to say, these are some of the
24:47
Speaker 8: worst sites I have seen in my life.
24:50
Speaker 4: And for these people to be.
24:53
Speaker 8: Out somehow celebrating this It's just beyond comprehension, I have
24:59
Speaker 8: to say. And every Australian should condemn it. Every Australian
25:03
Speaker 8: should condemn what happened on October 7, 2023, what happened
25:06
Speaker 8: a couple of days later at the Opera House, and
25:08
Speaker 8: the idea that there is going to be a repeat
25:11
Speaker 8: of that again.
25:12
Speaker 4: I mean, seriously.
25:13
Speaker 1: And their flyer accuses Israel of stealing the date.
25:16
Speaker 8: But this is, you know, Hamas did this. Islamist extremists
25:22
Speaker 8: did this. And we must condemn it.
25:26
Speaker 1: And you'll be spending tomorrow evening at one of the
25:28
Speaker 1: major Sydney synagogues.
25:30
Speaker 4: I absolutely will.
25:31
Speaker 8: And I will stand with our wonderful Australian Jewish population.
25:36
Speaker 4: At a difficult time. And those memories are always hard.
25:40
Speaker 1: Just finally, you know, we've heard from ASIO Director-General Mike
25:44
Speaker 1: Burgess that if he could, he would raise the terror
25:46
Speaker 1: threat level, the categories, prevent it. There's a current review.
25:49
Speaker 1: Are you worried there's going to be another attack?
25:52
Speaker 8: I am absolutely worried that this government has taken resources
25:55
Speaker 8: away from counter-terrorism. It's never been serious about dealing with
26:00
Speaker 8: Islamist extremism. And the risk is that we'll see a
26:03
Speaker 8: repeat and that the Royal Commission is not going to
26:06
Speaker 8: deliver what it should deliver, which is a very clear
26:09
Speaker 8: signal that more needs to be done.
26:11
Speaker 1: Because the ultimate threat is Islamic extremism. It is terrorism.
26:16
Speaker 1: terrorism in all its forms and the Royal Commission just
26:18
Speaker 1: hasn't focused on that.
26:20
Speaker 8: I am deeply concerned that with government ministers not going
26:24
Speaker 8: in front of it, with other senior officials and many
26:27
Speaker 8: others who wanted to bring evidence and I'm sure would
26:29
Speaker 8: have brought very important evidence to bear, the Royal Commission
26:33
Speaker 8: didn't hear from them and it should have. And I'm
26:36
Speaker 8: worried that the outcome of it will be way shorter
26:39
Speaker 8: where it needs to be.
26:39
Speaker 1: All right. Angus Taylor, thank you so much for being
26:41
Speaker 1: here in studio. Really appreciate your time.
26:43
Speaker 4: Good on you, Shari.
26:45
Speaker 1: And just on that note, a quick update on our book,
26:48
Speaker 1: Bondi Terror. I know there was some frustration that people
26:51
Speaker 1: couldn't get books, but I'm pleased to say there have
26:53
Speaker 1: now been four reprints. The book is back in stock,
26:56
Speaker 1: both online and in bookstores. You can head to Amazon
27:00
Speaker 1: and Booktopia online. Also, all good bookstores. We've signed, Alex
27:04
Speaker 1: and I, about 200 copies at Harry Hartog, 100 at
27:07
Speaker 1: QBD Books, another 100 at Gertrude and Alice in Bondi.
27:12
Speaker 1: All right, still to come, Chris Bowen literally falls asleep
27:15
Speaker 1: at his cop snoozefest, plus reaction to Angus Taylor's migration policy.
27:20
Speaker 1: That's with Jennifer Westacott later and Ray Hadley after the break. Well,
27:28
Speaker 1: Energy Minister Chris Bowen was spotted nodding off at his
27:31
Speaker 1: own pre-COP meeting, the one taxpayers are spending millions of
27:35
Speaker 1: dollars footing the bill for. And to top it off,
27:38
Speaker 1: then there was a power outage at the resort. It
27:41
Speaker 1: caused the lights to go out on Zali. Stegall, no less.
27:44
Speaker 1: The irony. Ray Hadley, radio legend, joins me now.
27:47
Speaker 5: $ 25 million. Look, it's an interesting.
27:51
Speaker 1: And he can't even stay awake for it.
27:52
Speaker 5: Well, no, but he's normally sending people to sleep. So
27:56
Speaker 5: it's a bit different this time. He set himself to sleep.
27:59
Speaker 5: I mean, really? I mean, and then he said, oh,
28:01
Speaker 5: it's part of the budget. We've appropriated $ 140 million, so
28:04
Speaker 5: it's only $ 25 million to get all these people. And
28:07
Speaker 5: this is the pre-pre-meeting.
28:08
Speaker 3: Yeah.
28:08
Speaker 5: This is like the pre's before you have the real meeting.
28:10
Speaker 1: It's so embarrassing and so infuriating when you think of
28:12
Speaker 1: the taxpayer money that's being spent on it.
28:14
Speaker 5: Well, it's just a waste and, I mean... You know,
28:16
Speaker 5: and he's been locked up. He's in, as I've said
28:20
Speaker 5: many times, he's sort of in witness protection. They hide
28:23
Speaker 5: him from everywhere and probably that's one of the reasons
28:25
Speaker 5: they hide him. He's snoozing off every time he gets
28:27
Speaker 5: in the media.
28:27
Speaker 1: He's polling so bad. You just had a crossover with
28:31
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor. As he was going out, you were coming
28:33
Speaker 1: in and you said to him, Ray.
28:35
Speaker 5: Thank God. I've been waiting. You know, I've been here
28:41
Speaker 5: in the telly talking about the deficiencies and I've been saying,
28:44
Speaker 5: for goodness sake, Find a point of difference. Find a
28:49
Speaker 5: point of difference. And One Nation found the point of difference,
28:51
Speaker 5: and that's why the polls are showing Paul in increasingly
28:54
Speaker 5: valuable to right-wing voters. And all of a sudden, as
28:58
Speaker 5: a person who's really interested in conservative politics, tonight it
29:02
Speaker 5: was like a light bulb going off above my head.
29:05
Speaker 5: And his performance with you is one of the best
29:08
Speaker 5: performances I've seen from Angus Taylor in his political career.
29:11
Speaker 1: I just had a text message from someone else saying
29:13
Speaker 1: that as well.
29:13
Speaker 5: Finally, he'll get some traction. And your editorial at the
29:18
Speaker 5: start of the show about how much trouble both the
29:21
Speaker 5: Prime Minister and Treasurer are in, one has to go, surely.
29:25
Speaker 5: I mean, and my mail out of Canberra is, it'll
29:28
Speaker 5: be the Treasurer, not the Prime Minister. He is on
29:30
Speaker 5: the nose. People just don't cop the arrogance. It's a
29:33
Speaker 5: bit like the arrogance from Richard Miles in relation to
29:35
Speaker 5: Defence Force asset sales and things like that. And people
29:39
Speaker 5: just detest it. And they're losing traction. And there has
29:42
Speaker 5: to be, he'll have to change direction somewhere, the Prime Minister,
29:45
Speaker 5: and probably the best thing to do is to punt
29:47
Speaker 5: the Treasurer and blame him for all the ills of,
29:49
Speaker 5: you know, the current day.
29:51
Speaker 1: I mean, there are those pushing him to do that.
29:53
Speaker 1: But like I said at the start of the show,
29:55
Speaker 1: you know what Albanese is like. He never admits he's wrong.
29:59
Speaker 1: Even with the Andrew Giles, Claire O'Neill fiasco, he just
30:02
Speaker 1: didn't move on it. Royal Commission, he didn't want to
30:04
Speaker 1: call one. So there is that sense that it would
30:07
Speaker 1: be more damaging for him politically and he'd be, you know,
30:10
Speaker 1: crazy to do it.
30:10
Speaker 5: Well, I just have to say, Shariq, It can't be
30:13
Speaker 5: any more political damaging than he already is. I mean,
30:16
Speaker 5: he's a dead man walking, figuratively speaking, as a prime minister.
30:20
Speaker 5: And all of a sudden, I can just hear the
30:22
Speaker 5: joys of the light from conservative voters right across your
30:25
Speaker 5: viewing area who are saying the same thing that your
30:27
Speaker 5: texter said, that I've said. Finally, we've got a point
30:30
Speaker 5: of difference. And finally, immigration's a really important policy. And
30:35
Speaker 5: I was thinking about the three bears and Goldilocks on
30:38
Speaker 5: the way in and say you've got Goldilocks, one porridge
30:42
Speaker 5: is too cold, one's too hot and one's just right.
30:44
Speaker 5: And I think what we've got at the moment is
30:47
Speaker 5: the one that's really cold is Labor and somewhere between
30:50
Speaker 5: too hot and just right is the policy enunciated by
30:53
Speaker 5: the Liberal Nationals together, a coalition, and One Nation.
30:56
Speaker 1: And it's easy to understand. It'll be an easy policy
30:59
Speaker 1: for Angus Taylor to sell, $ 100, 000 a year. It's pretty simple.
31:02
Speaker 5: Yeah, and look, there's a lot of devil in the
31:05
Speaker 5: detail that'll be mapped out tomorrow in various publications and
31:08
Speaker 5: no doubt News 24 will take a great look at
31:10
Speaker 5: that in great detail. And there's a lot of things
31:13
Speaker 5: to be got through. But the message that he's provided
31:16
Speaker 5: to your viewers tonight is the most important message he's
31:18
Speaker 5: provided since taking over leadership.
31:22
Speaker 1: Look, I think there are still concerns about whether, you know,
31:25
Speaker 1: lowering the migration could tip us into a recession. Maybe,
31:27
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not saying it shouldn't be done. I'm
31:29
Speaker 1: just saying that might happen. I'm going to talk to
31:31
Speaker 1: Jennifer Westacott. She's the next guest about that.
31:33
Speaker 5: She'd know more than anyone else about that.
31:35
Speaker 3: She will.
31:35
Speaker 1: So I'll ask her about that. Victorian barracks, you just
31:38
Speaker 1: referred to that before. Now, Richard Miles really offended the generals.
31:43
Speaker 1: If we've got the clip, we might just remind viewers
31:45
Speaker 1: exactly what the Deputy Prime Minister Richard Miles had to
31:48
Speaker 1: say about veterans.
31:51
Speaker 3: You know, there are a few former generals who liked
31:53
Speaker 3: hanging out there.
31:56
Speaker 1: Well, Ray, now a retired former general has spoken out
32:02
Speaker 1: against this. He's basically saying this is a direct attack
32:06
Speaker 1: on culture and history.
32:08
Speaker 5: Well, the quotes this morning in the telly came from
32:11
Speaker 5: Lieutenant General Ken Gillespie. Now, I don't know the Lieutenant
32:14
Speaker 5: General retired as well as others. And there are others
32:17
Speaker 5: saying the same thing as well.
32:18
Speaker 1: Gus McLaughlin.
32:19
Speaker 5: Others as well. But Gillespie is one of the most
32:22
Speaker 5: respected men ever to serve in our armed services. If
32:26
Speaker 5: he won't cop the tip, Miles, from people like this,
32:31
Speaker 5: either Gus McLaughlin or the retired Ken Gillespie, he's not
32:35
Speaker 5: going to cop the tip from anyone. And these men
32:38
Speaker 5: have forgotten more about the defence of this country than
32:42
Speaker 5: the minister knows. And it's incongruous that he won't listen
32:47
Speaker 5: to Chris Minns, the New South Wales Premier, members of
32:51
Speaker 5: his own Federal Labor Party. It's like he's like a
32:54
Speaker 5: spoiled brat. He's dug his heels in and he's not
32:56
Speaker 5: going to change his mind. And, I mean, among all
32:59
Speaker 5: the problems they've got, they could solve this problem, you know, instantaneously.
33:04
Speaker 5: They could just say, no, we're going to change, we're
33:06
Speaker 5: going to keep Victoria Barracks. No problems. It's going to
33:08
Speaker 5: stay there. But he won't do it.
33:10
Speaker 1: It's that digging the heels in that we spoke about before.
33:14
Speaker 1: It's Albanese E2T.
33:15
Speaker 5: They won't change.
33:15
Speaker 4: Exactly.
33:16
Speaker 5: Exactly.
33:17
Speaker 1: I spoke briefly before to Angus Taylor about these pro-Palestinian
33:21
Speaker 1: vigils planned for tomorrow. The Premier says he can't do
33:24
Speaker 1: anything about it.
33:25
Speaker 5: I think he's gun-shy because he has had a loss
33:28
Speaker 5: in a legal battle previously about these sorts of protests.
33:32
Speaker 5: But that doesn't mean he shouldn't try. That doesn't mean
33:35
Speaker 5: he shouldn't try. But I think he is gun-shy about it.
33:38
Speaker 5: And the things that are being said by those who
33:42
Speaker 5: will hold this vigil or protest tomorrow... offensive in this, Graham,
33:47
Speaker 5: just absolutely offensive and shouldn't be happening.
33:51
Speaker 1: But doesn't it amaze you how authorities could keep everyone
33:55
Speaker 1: locked in their homes during COVID, but then it comes
33:57
Speaker 1: to the pro-Palestinian issue and they say they can't do anything?
34:00
Speaker 5: Yeah, like I say, I think he's gun-shy, but that
34:02
Speaker 5: doesn't mean he shouldn't try. He should go to the
34:04
Speaker 5: courts again. Look, a different judge in the Supreme Court
34:07
Speaker 5: of New South Wales might give a different decision to
34:09
Speaker 5: the previous. Just because the decision's been made by one
34:12
Speaker 5: judge or justice doesn't mean that the next one that
34:15
Speaker 5: views this same sort of thing, because it is offensive.
34:18
Speaker 1: It is.
34:19
Speaker 5: I mean, the slogan they're using... is just absolutely offensive
34:23
Speaker 5: to the Jewish community, but not just the Jewish community.
34:26
Speaker 5: It's offensive to everyone.
34:27
Speaker 1: Everyone's sick of this stuff. Everyone. Now, look, quite sad news.
34:32
Speaker 1: And I was shocked to wake up to this news
34:34
Speaker 1: about Geoffrey Archer this morning, Ray, because Geoffrey Archer had
34:37
Speaker 1: been on this big publicity tour globally, really, for his
34:41
Speaker 1: new book. And then on the day it was being
34:44
Speaker 1: released today, he passed away.
34:47
Speaker 5: I saw some things about probably his last interview about
34:50
Speaker 5: in London where he started doing stand-ups. Someone said, what
34:54
Speaker 5: about it? He said, oh, I'm fit as a mallee bull.
34:56
Speaker 5: I'm going, you know, he didn't say that, but that's
34:58
Speaker 5: what he meant. And up and down he went. Look,
35:01
Speaker 5: I started reading his novels right from the word go.
35:06
Speaker 5: And I don't think, you know, maybe John Grisham, but
35:10
Speaker 5: I don't think there's been an author in the modern times, well,
35:14
Speaker 5: that's sold as many books as him, but has captivated
35:16
Speaker 5: as many people and has, I guess, encouraged people to read.
35:20
Speaker 5: More importantly, because, I mean, there was every twist and
35:24
Speaker 5: turn you could possibly imagine. He must have had a
35:27
Speaker 5: great imagination to write the books he wrote. And, of course,
35:30
Speaker 5: a colourful life. but also a Lord who spent two
35:35
Speaker 5: years in jail.
35:36
Speaker 1: I thought it was four years.
35:37
Speaker 5: Well, four years at the top end, two years at
35:39
Speaker 5: the bottom end. Okay.
35:41
Speaker 1: And there's going to be one of his final interviews
35:43
Speaker 1: is going to be played after my program for the
35:45
Speaker 1: first half hour of Paul Murray.
35:47
Speaker 7: So, yeah.
35:48
Speaker 1: Ray, love having you in studio. Love hearing your thoughts.
35:51
Speaker 5: Well, I'll be back next Monday after there's no long weekend.
35:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, that's great. We'll look forward to seeing you
35:56
Speaker 1: on Monday.
35:56
Speaker 5: And, Angus, keep it up. You know what?
35:58
Speaker 1: You're not going to be on on Monday because I've
35:59
Speaker 1: got the one-hour Josh Frydenberg special. You'll be on on
36:01
Speaker 1: Tuesday again.
36:03
Speaker 5: Well, I'll change my diary.
36:04
Speaker 1: OK, good. Good, you update your diary. Good to see you.
36:08
Speaker 1: All right, coming up, the Spokeskid of Israel will join
36:10
Speaker 1: me at the desk to mark the third anniversary of
36:12
Speaker 1: October 7. And Jennifer Westacott, who serves on the RBA
36:17
Speaker 1: Governance Board, will be here to discuss the economy and
36:20
Speaker 1: Angus Taylor's migration policy after this quick break. Well, as
36:26
Speaker 1: we've been discussing tonight, Angus Taylor has announced he'll slash
36:30
Speaker 1: migration figures... The business community already has some concerns. And
36:35
Speaker 1: joining me for more now is the University of Western
36:37
Speaker 1: Sydney Chancellor, former Business Council Chief Executive and RBA Governance
36:42
Speaker 1: Board member, Jennifer Westacott. Wonderful to have you on the show.
36:46
Speaker 5: Good to see you.
36:46
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. And no one better place to
36:49
Speaker 1: comment on this policy than you. Firstly, what's your overall
36:53
Speaker 1: view of Angus Taylor's policy, particularly cutting the migration level,
36:59
Speaker 1: its impact on the business community? Yeah, look, I think.
37:02
Speaker 7: First of all, the good stuff is the focus on
37:04
Speaker 7: skills because that's where we need to get the debate back.
37:08
Speaker 7: The challenge is that we've got to make sure that
37:10
Speaker 7: we don't get an own goal from these policies because migration,
37:14
Speaker 7: when it's been well run in Australia, has been a
37:16
Speaker 7: really big contributor to economic growth. We've got to remember
37:19
Speaker 7: what the permanent migration program.
37:21
Speaker 5: Was all about.
37:21
Speaker 7: It was lifting the overall skill level of the population,
37:25
Speaker 7: so people bringing in innovation, knowledge, ideas, lifting our productivity.
37:29
Speaker 1: We've got to get back to that. I agree with
37:30
Speaker 1: him about that.
37:31
Speaker 7: I would prefer that conversation than just constantly having a conversation.
37:35
Speaker 1: About a lowering and lowering of numbers.
37:37
Speaker 7: Because when I talk to businesses, they say, we need
37:40
Speaker 7: more skilled workers out in Western Sydney. We need more nurses.
37:43
Speaker 7: We need more people in the construction industry. We've got
37:45
Speaker 7: a housing crisis and we need people to actually kind
37:48
Speaker 7: of participate in these industries. What I would wish we
37:51
Speaker 7: were doing, and I think this is partly what Angus
37:54
Speaker 7: Taylor is proposing, is asking the question, are we targeting
37:57
Speaker 7: the right skills? Are we testing people properly for those skills?
38:02
Speaker 7: And if they have got those skills, why aren't they
38:04
Speaker 7: deployed into the economy where those skills are needed?
38:07
Speaker 1: Why are they driving Ubers?
38:09
Speaker 7: Why aren't we really recognising those skills if they're legitimate
38:13
Speaker 7: and then putting people into the economy? And on the
38:15
Speaker 7: temporary migration, let's make sure we're plugging those gaps that are,
38:19
Speaker 7: you know, short term, but that we're also behind that
38:24
Speaker 7: doing the training and the skilling so that we can
38:26
Speaker 7: actually skill Australians to do those jobs.
38:29
Speaker 1: I mean, that's from an economic perspective, putting your hat
38:33
Speaker 1: on as Chancellor of University of Western Sydney. He has
38:37
Speaker 1: accused universities of not selling education, but visa pathways where,
38:41
Speaker 1: of course, entire families can come in with a student.
38:45
Speaker 1: He says he's going to abolish temporary graduate visas. Do you,
38:48
Speaker 1: what's your reaction to this?
38:49
Speaker 7: Well, I want to have a look at the detail
38:51
Speaker 7: of this and how it's actually going to work. I mean, look,
38:53
Speaker 7: I think There was a legitimate debate to be had
38:57
Speaker 7: about the number of international students, particularly in universities where
39:01
Speaker 7: those numbers are in excess of 40, 45 percent of
39:04
Speaker 7: the total student population. I just think there was another
39:07
Speaker 7: way of doing it. My university has been hit very
39:09
Speaker 7: hard at this. We've got a very low number of students.
39:12
Speaker 7: International education has been a really important economic contributor to
39:16
Speaker 7: Australia's kind of way of life. It's a very important
39:19
Speaker 7: part of self-diplomacy that we've got people studying in Australia,
39:23
Speaker 7: living in other countries. So there was a case to
39:25
Speaker 7: be had. I just think what would have been better
39:28
Speaker 7: is to say to universities, look, you've all got to
39:29
Speaker 7: get to sort of like 25% and you can't have
39:32
Speaker 7: more than any particular, 50% of any particular cohort. That
39:36
Speaker 7: would allow to smooth the pathway. And of course, then
39:38
Speaker 7: making sure that we've got integrity and rigour around the
39:41
Speaker 7: visa processing program. I think as part of the migration discussion, totally,
39:46
Speaker 7: we ought to have a look at things like family reunions.
39:48
Speaker 7: We ought to have a look at some of these
39:50
Speaker 7: pathways to permanent residency and to citizenship and make sure
39:53
Speaker 7: that they're robust, they've got integrity. But I would rather
39:56
Speaker 7: that conversation than just this constant conversation about the number.
40:00
Speaker 1: That's very political, of course.
40:02
Speaker 5: Of course.
40:03
Speaker 7: I understand the politics of it, but we have to
40:05
Speaker 7: remember that, you know, we've got an economy that's not
40:08
Speaker 7: growing fast enough. We've got to have those skilled workers
40:11
Speaker 7: and we should be focusing on the skills.
40:14
Speaker 1: And I want to get on to the economy because that's,
40:15
Speaker 1: of course, why you were originally on the program. I mean,
40:18
Speaker 1: last week we had another rate rise. Inflation is still rising.
40:21
Speaker 1: It's sticky. Families are feeling the cost of living crisis
40:24
Speaker 1: and productivity is falling. Is this the major issue?
40:28
Speaker 7: Oh, I think all of those things are huge issues.
40:30
Speaker 7: You've got inflation still very high. And I think people
40:34
Speaker 7: have got to remember when inflation is out of control,
40:38
Speaker 7: it's very hard to rein it back in. And that
40:41
Speaker 7: means people are paying higher prices. That means that cost
40:43
Speaker 7: of living pressure gets even worse. But for what I
40:46
Speaker 7: like to do is put it all together. So you've
40:49
Speaker 7: got high inflation, but you've got low economic growth. And
40:52
Speaker 7: what low economic growth means is lower wages. So that
40:55
Speaker 7: cost of living pressure is actually being felt harder and harder.
40:59
Speaker 7: And you talked about our productivity numbers. It's productivity that
41:03
Speaker 7: drives a stronger economy. It's productivity that drives higher wages.
41:07
Speaker 5: We've had the.
41:07
Speaker 7: Lowest decade on record, we're in the lowest decade on
41:11
Speaker 7: record for productivity growth. We've had the lowest last decade
41:15
Speaker 7: in 60 years for productivity growth. And in turn, wages
41:18
Speaker 7: go down. And so that means people feel the pressure
41:22
Speaker 7: of the cost of living crisis, not just because prices
41:25
Speaker 7: are going up, but their wages are not keeping pace.
41:27
Speaker 1: What their wage actually buys. In terms of government spending,
41:31
Speaker 1: you know, how much of an issue does this contribute
41:34
Speaker 1: to inflation?
41:35
Speaker 7: Well, we've had all of the major economists talking about this,
41:39
Speaker 7: saying that what they call more demand into the economy
41:42
Speaker 7: or more aggregate demand puts pressure on inflation. And so
41:46
Speaker 7: I think there's no doubt that government spending is an
41:49
Speaker 7: area that should be looked at. It's not the only
41:52
Speaker 7: thing contributing to inflation, but it is a crucial thing.
41:55
Speaker 7: But really importantly, it's not just about the aggregate level
41:59
Speaker 7: of spending. What I'd like us to be having a
42:01
Speaker 7: conversation is what are we spending the money on? Could
42:03
Speaker 7: we be more productive in the way we spend government money?
42:06
Speaker 7: Could we improve the way services are provided to people
42:09
Speaker 7: through the use of technology? Could we actually make sure
42:12
Speaker 7: that people are seeing service levels rise as that expenditure rises?
42:17
Speaker 7: And can we control the rate of growth in things
42:20
Speaker 7: like the NDIS, in health expenditure, by doing things smarter,
42:23
Speaker 7: by being more productive with the way we spend government money?
42:27
Speaker 1: Government debt hit a trillion dollars, even higher, this year.
42:32
Speaker 1: Australians seem to just accept it. Do you think there
42:35
Speaker 1: should be more pushback? There should be a bigger political issue? Absolutely.
42:39
Speaker 7: I mean, when I saw the intergenerational report the week
42:43
Speaker 7: before last, and it has a forecast that we are
42:46
Speaker 7: going to be in deficit till 2066. Now, we should be,
42:51
Speaker 7: as Australians, extremely worried about that, because what that tells
42:56
Speaker 7: us is that our resilience as a country is is
43:00
Speaker 7: being eroded over a long period of time. And you've
43:04
Speaker 7: sort of got to remember why you need the economy
43:06
Speaker 7: to grow. One is to be more resilient. Two is
43:08
Speaker 7: to have more choices. Three is to have higher living standards.
43:10
Speaker 7: But just very quickly, you know, being in deficit is
43:14
Speaker 7: a choice we make. We don't have to be in deficit.
43:16
Speaker 7: We have the policy tools that would increase our productivity
43:19
Speaker 7: significantly increase the rate of economic growth, increase the size
43:22
Speaker 7: of the economy, but we're not choosing to do it.
43:26
Speaker 1: And we've got to remember... Well, the Albanese government isn't choosing.
43:29
Speaker 7: Well, we haven't made a lot of these choices for
43:31
Speaker 7: a long period of time, but we are in a
43:35
Speaker 7: crisis now in terms of our productivity and we've got
43:38
Speaker 7: to kind of do something about it because what that
43:40
Speaker 7: means is that we're sleepwalking into lower living standards... And
43:43
Speaker 7: anybody who thinks it's OK to be in deficit till 2066,
43:46
Speaker 7: think of the last 40 years.
43:49
Speaker 1: We've had wars.
43:50
Speaker 7: We've had terrorist attacks that have kind of shocked markets.
43:53
Speaker 7: We've also had a global financial crisis and a global pandemic.
43:57
Speaker 7: When Australia went into both of those events, we had
43:59
Speaker 7: stronger budgets. You know, if we got weak budgets, think
44:02
Speaker 7: about the next 40 years. Are we seriously thinking that
44:05
Speaker 7: we're not going to have major international shocks to the system,
44:08
Speaker 7: and we're not resilient enough.
44:10
Speaker 1: We don't have the ability to handle them.
44:12
Speaker 7: And this is a choice we make, and I think
44:14
Speaker 7: we as a community have to kind of not just
44:18
Speaker 7: continue to think government is going to solve every problem.
44:20
Speaker 1: We're really running out of time, but I wanted to
44:21
Speaker 1: quickly ask you if you think we could be facing
44:24
Speaker 1: a severe economic downturn like a recession, and if Angus
44:29
Speaker 1: Taylor lowers the migration figures, will that... make us more
44:32
Speaker 1: likely to fall into a recession? We don't have much time.
44:35
Speaker 7: Look, I think it's a combination of things that would
44:37
Speaker 7: tip us into a recession. I think the thing we
44:39
Speaker 7: need to focus on is increasing our rate of growth,
44:41
Speaker 7: increasing our productivity. That's the greatest buffer we're going to
44:44
Speaker 7: have for a recession. But on the track we've got
44:45
Speaker 7: at the moment, the trajectory we're on at the moment...
44:48
Speaker 7: We are looking at, at the very least, a long
44:51
Speaker 7: period of low growth, low wages and high inflation, and
44:55
Speaker 7: that's not good for people's living standards.
44:58
Speaker 1: Super quickly, small businesses feel like they're being crushed.
45:01
Speaker 7: They just get hit from every angle. You know, they
45:03
Speaker 7: get hit with higher taxation than their competitive small businesses
45:08
Speaker 7: around the world. They get hit with red tape after
45:10
Speaker 7: red tape after red tape. They get hit with payroll tax.
45:13
Speaker 7: They get slogged with stamp duty. You know, they just
45:16
Speaker 7: get slogged at every angle. And, you know, we've got
45:18
Speaker 7: to remember that it's the risk-takers that drive the economy.
45:22
Speaker 7: It's the risk-takers in small business who put their dollar
45:24
Speaker 7: at risk to grow a bit, to do a bit
45:26
Speaker 7: more than employ people. They are the engine of our
45:29
Speaker 7: economy and we've got to stop slogging them.
45:32
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're being punished. Jennifer, love having you on. We'd
45:34
Speaker 1: love to have you on more often to talk about
45:36
Speaker 1: the economy. Thank you so much.
45:37
Speaker 5: You're very welcome.
45:37
Speaker 1: Thank you. After the break tomorrow, the third anniversary of
45:41
Speaker 1: October 7, Israel's Spokeskid will join us next. Well, tomorrow
45:48
Speaker 1: marks three years since Hamas terrorists butchered 1,200 Israelis in
45:54
Speaker 1: and abducted 251 hostages, many who never made it home.
45:59
Speaker 1: Life has of course changed for all of us, but
46:02
Speaker 1: particularly for Israel and for the country's children, some of
46:07
Speaker 1: whom were kidnapped, many who lost family, friends, parents and
46:11
Speaker 1: their homes. Ben Caruso's father was killed at the Nova
46:15
Speaker 1: Music Festival and he was just eight, but he started
46:19
Speaker 1: speaking out. He became known as the spokes kid of
46:21
Speaker 1: Israel and he joins me now. Ben, thank you so much.
46:24
Speaker 1: Great to see you. Welcome back. Thank you. Now, as
46:28
Speaker 1: I just said, you were only eight when October 7 happened.
46:31
Speaker 1: You're 11 now. What do you remember most vividly about
46:35
Speaker 1: the day?
46:36
Speaker 9: I remember, well, it was October 7th. I was in
46:40
Speaker 9: the north of Israel. almost at the border. And I
46:46
Speaker 9: remember that my mother told me that there's a war,
46:48
Speaker 9: we have to go home. And sadly, a unique skill
46:53
Speaker 9: of the Israeli children is knowing what to do when
46:57
Speaker 9: there is a war. Because I have experienced five military
47:00
Speaker 9: operations before October 7th. So I know what rockets and
47:04
Speaker 9: wars can do. What does it mean? So we went
47:08
Speaker 9: back home. I was really afraid. And I remember that...
47:13
Speaker 9: I also, my friend from Kiryat Shumana called me and
47:16
Speaker 9: he said there is also Hezbollah attack there today. After,
47:20
Speaker 9: also my friend told me his father was at the
47:22
Speaker 9: Nova Festival. As he said, they didn't know where he was.
47:26
Speaker 9: After a couple of months, they found that he was killed.
47:30
Speaker 9: And since then, I've been speaking about our childhood, which
47:35
Speaker 9: is not normal. Growing up into rockets and into sirens,
47:40
Speaker 9: the first things that you remember is what to do
47:45
Speaker 9: when there is a siren. You have to plan your
47:48
Speaker 9: route to go to your friend if there's a shelter,
47:51
Speaker 9: if there's a safe room, or being afraid every single
47:56
Speaker 9: second that.
47:58
Speaker 1: Something's going to happen.
47:59
Speaker 5: Yes, exactly.
48:00
Speaker 1: And you've said that now children are worried about even
48:03
Speaker 1: being kidnapped, that there is now a lot of trauma
48:07
Speaker 1: for children in Israel.
48:08
Speaker 5: Exactly.
48:10
Speaker 9: Sadly, even, you know, Now we are in a ceasefire,
48:14
Speaker 9: but the trauma that comes with it is horrible. People,
48:21
Speaker 9: for example, my friend who her cousin was kidnapped, while
48:27
Speaker 9: she lived in Tel Aviv, she told me she was
48:29
Speaker 9: afraid that they would kidnap her too. We don't know
48:32
Speaker 9: if anything can happen again because it happened just another
48:38
Speaker 9: day at our holiday. Sadly, we cannot know if they
48:44
Speaker 9: will try to eliminate us every second. And I have
48:49
Speaker 9: to say also, a lot of people also say to me,
48:53
Speaker 9: they want us not to exist. They say to my face.
48:57
Speaker 9: And it's sad that after 80 years since the Holocaust,
49:00
Speaker 9: me also as the third generation of a Holocaust survivor,
49:03
Speaker 9: we see that people are still wishing to end our existence,
49:08
Speaker 9: as they see it for Jewish children here in Australia,
49:12
Speaker 9: from all over the world, as people also say to me.
49:14
Speaker 9: And it's part that the world has to wake up
49:19
Speaker 9: and understand the truth, the reality behind the headlines. Because
49:23
Speaker 9: behind it, there are real stories, but real children who
49:27
Speaker 9: lost their parents, who lost their friends, who lost their siblings.
49:31
Speaker 9: And they're still growing up with that trauma.
49:34
Speaker 1: And of course, there were 40 children who also lost
49:36
Speaker 1: their lives on October 7. Ben, it's so Terrific to
49:40
Speaker 1: have you back in Australia. You speak so eloquently and
49:43
Speaker 1: powerfully and emotionally and you're just a credit to your family,
49:49
Speaker 1: of course, and also to Israel. Thank you so much
49:51
Speaker 1: for being here. Thank you.
49:52
Speaker 9: If I may just add one last thing.
49:53
Speaker 1: I think we're out of time, but next time.
49:56
Speaker 5: Sure.
49:56
Speaker 1: Thank you. And don't go anywhere now. Geoffrey Archer's last
50:00
Speaker 1: interview he's ever done is up next.