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Paloma Alves on How to Make Dances Unforgettable (S05 Ep82) · ZoukNerds • Learn | Build | Belong

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But today, we're going to be talking to leaders.
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What do followers want? First of all, that I'm not
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feeling that my body will be used to execute movements.
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For me as a follower, dancing Zook for 18 years doesn't exist
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any excuses so. We are constantly playing with
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our general insecurity because all we want is a smile, you
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know? But I still feel so sad when I
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see a leader forcing A follower that she's not able to do a head
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movement. And look at your dancing with
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Kuna. I know now that we are just
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going to provide different experience.
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They are equally nice. All we want, all of us leaders
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follow us human being. We want validation.
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That feeling that this works, this is nice.
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I am accepted. Again guys, the dance is just a
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mirror of how we live life and how we are as.
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People, but the leader put me in a washing machine and I'm
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staying there until he took me out of the washing machines.
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There's a lot of pressure that comes from social media because
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the videos that are popping on social media, they are the
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videos of dancers doing the crazy stuff.
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So leaders feel that pressure to do that.
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Followers feel the pressure to be able to do that.
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And it's a whole pressure cooker that is making everybody very
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stressed and feeling like they can never be, they can never do,
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they can never get there. What do followers really want
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from a dance? Is it a long list of fancy
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moves, or is it something much simpler that most leaders miss?
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Let's discuss why inviting a movement is always better than
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forcing and how to make your dancing unforgettable without
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the crazy patterns. Can we have a full dance
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experience in a much simpler way?
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Well, let's find out. Hello.
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Hello everyone and welcome back to the Canary's.
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In this episode, GI, Prada and I are joined by our beautiful
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guest Paloma Alvis and we are talking directly to the leaders
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today about what followers truly crave such as safety being seen
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and a real conversation. Paloma explains why force is
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never an excuse. How to build a slow progression
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in your dance and why the best dances aren't about the crazy
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moves you learned in a workshop. Let's learn how to take the
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pressure off your shoulders and start truly listening to your
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partner. So let's go.
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Hello, hello everyone and welcome back.
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My name is Alison Sanji and let's welcome our beautiful Co
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host GI Prada. Hello, GI.
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Hello, Alison. Hello everybody, back to be
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back. That's right.
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That's right. We're back here to be back with
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our beautiful Co host, Paloma Alvis.
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Hello, Paloma. Hello guy to back to every guy
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we insist but very happy. You know it's a trademark at the
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train. Mark now we're every time we
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have you now is going to be we're back to be back.
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Happy to be back. Happy to be back.
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I think 2 times I said back to be back.
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Yes, that's the story, guys. If you're lost, go back to
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multiple episodes when we had Paloma before and she said that
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once and we're not letting it go.
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But today we're going to be talking to leaders.
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Hi, leaders. But this is very important for
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followers as well to understand what's going on.
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OK, so followers, please don't turn out.
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But leaders, we're going to be talking about what do followers
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want? Not just in terms of like, oh,
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if you do this, you're good enough.
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If you don't do this, you're not good enough.
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But really, really asking Paloma, Paloma, with all the
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experiences that you have, all the phases and journeys that
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you've been through and teaching around the globe, travelling for
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17 years, 18, you have 18 years. I will complete this year 18
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years, yeah. You have this perspective that
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we are so lucky to have here today in the episode.
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So how do you want to start this Paloma?
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Where do you want to go from? Oh wow.
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You're in the driver's seat. Let's go.
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We are the guests today. OK.
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Hello, Paloma. No, this way.
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This way. We are in your Ted Talk.
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This is your Ted talk. I'm feeling red.
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So many things to say, but as we was talking before, the first
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thing that come up to my mind is I used to say that I love to
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feel safe when someone's embrace me.
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And this safety means first of all, that I'm not feeling that
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my body will be used to execute movements because it feels this
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way sometimes and can be scary. It can be just a lot of
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discomfort. And I understand that it's not
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no one's fault in terms of or the person takes me and use me.
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I don't believe that. But I believe so much that we
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can change the narrative in terms of I heard a lot from
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leaders too, that they are scared to be bored, that they
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really wanted to make an interesting dance.
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Sorry, they're scared to be boring.
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Boring. Yes, yes, yes.
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To be boring so they learn movements, they want to have
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repertory and that's solely OK because a comfort dance or a
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safe dance doesn't mean just to be on spot and embrace.
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It means many things. But one of those things that are
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very important is for me to leaders understand that they
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will not build their story by themselves.
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They have someone in front of them, the father that also had
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their thought off on the conversation.
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So truly for me, Miss 55th, doesn't matter the level we need
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the amount of trust that this follower in front of you doesn't
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need to be moved, needs to be invited to move.
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And then by the invitation you will start to see how this body
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moves. What is the story behind this
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body and really trying to be together with this person and
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not all let me help because sometimes I hear these a lot
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too. Oh I lead this way because I
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need to help the follower. All because I dance with a lot
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of beginners. Please leaders with all my heart
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don't use this as an excuse for me as a follower.
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Dancing Zook for 18 years doesn't exist.
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Any excuse? Sorry.
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Let's see if I let it out. Let it out.
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For you use force, Don't use force please.
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OK, come back. The thing is, sometimes is you
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spend lots of time learning new movements, but not much time
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enough to know how to read someone's body, to know how to
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communicate, to know the quality that you can put in that
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movement. So palom, I need to learn
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movements, I need to learn quality, I need to learn how to
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read someone's body. Wait, sometimes by you just in
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have more awareness of your own movement, you will start to lead
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more from your body and not so much from your hands and arms.
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So inside of your learning actually going deep on yourself,
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you will start to actually using less this idea that you really
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need to move this person to make this movement happen.
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Actually, if I would be simple and less abstract is let me
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check how this person moves when Ioffer that direction, that
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angle or maybe she doesn't feel safe when I move her head, I can
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see her shoulders going up. I remember guy said in one class
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that he wants to ask for the leaders.
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Actually you did. When the leaders understand,
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they would quit, they would not do head movements and people
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would get like no answer. Yeah.
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I asked how do you decide to not do head movements and how do you
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decide to do head movements? Yeah, that was the question like
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how is your decision making process or what is your decision
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making process to go for a head movement and not go for a head
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movement? And I'm really afraid to share
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my opinion right now in such like very honest and vulnerable
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way because like, I really don't want to like, oh, you guys doing
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this wrong. You need to do that.
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Like that's not my purpose. But I want to bring more clarity
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that sometimes what the leaders are doing, it's far a bit from
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what the followers want in terms of I want to be listen, I want
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to be seen first, then like seen as a thing to do movement, you
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know, or I remember a follower told me once, like I feel that
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the leaders wants to train all the movements.
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They know they learn from the workshop and I don't like the
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sensation. I don't feel like for five
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seconds that they really embrace me.
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They already go to do the movement.
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So then I started to teach and also think more about these slow
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burn like or build up the dance, you know, because it's not about
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to not do movements, but it's about how we build up the
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communication to see how far we go, how far we go in this story.
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And then wonders can be more weight transfer and movements on
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the vertical position time to we sync our weight transfer and
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believe me when we ask and we have been asking a lot for
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students what they expect on a desk, not just for followers,
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but also for leaders. What makes a dance
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unforgettable? We don't hear.
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I never heard one single time a movement.
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Oh, what's make a dance unforgarbable is counterbalance
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is Spain is 25 to others. Those things are part of the
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dance and it's amazing. We have a huge repertory in our
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dance. But how we do those movements,
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how we check with each other if we are there, Sometimes I like
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to say, hey, I'm not there yet. You would go a little bit
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earlier than me. I'm still here, you know, and I
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know, let's say from my perspective, from perspective
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that I take from many followers that come to learn with me that
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it's not that we don't want to be there and doing the movement.
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Actually, we want that a lot. We as followers, we have kind of
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this sheep that we don't give up.
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We really want to understand. We trained so much to
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understand, to do the right things.
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But because of that, sometimes we lose connection with the
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things that make us save, that make us comfortable with our
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movement. So it's so nice when someone's
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embrace us, breathe, and we fill the space of the invitation
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because this space off, when you invite someone to do something,
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has a moment for the answer, my answer.
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You said something I hear, and then it's time for me to say
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something and you listen. Yeah, sometimes you just want
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bread and butter. You don't need the whole Subway
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sandwich. Sometimes it's just bread and
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butter on a toast and that's what you want because that's the
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quality, not the quantity or the extras, right?
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So much. The thing is, we have been
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saying this for so many years. Every class we go.
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What do you think is preventing people from really believing
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what we're saying? What do you think is holding
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them back to say, OK, I'll focus on my awareness.
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OK, I will listen. OK, I'll shift to it.
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What do you think holds people back from saying this?
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OK, I'll do that. Yeah, the first thing that come
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up to my mind, and especially I would not say especially, I
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would just say like the first thing that come up to my mind, a
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knowledge that can be very silly.
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You know, when people say like our beauty is not important,
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What's more important is what you have inside.
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But and then we see in the society so much like people
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like. The standard of what beauty is.
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Yes, reinforce that so much. It's pretty much that.
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So when we see outside on videos on glasses, what is there the
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quantity movement. Oh, you are fine.
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You are nice. You are like cool if you do
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those movements because what we are searching for is invisible.
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We are not really able to see. Sometimes we can if we train our
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eyes, we can see when a dance, it's comfortable when we give
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that feeling, that's fresh air, right?
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But that's for me, it's the first thing that come to my mind
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when prevents them to really search for more awareness.
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I can say something that is positive.
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I don't want to just be maybe negative.
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I don't know if I'm being negative with the things that I
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said, but it's like more offensive.
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Yeah, we talked. About that in the last episode
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so go back guys, and understand what we're talking about
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defensive teaching that you have dancing defensive.
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Speaking, I have been in front of your eyes.
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See Joy. I had.
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This is your Ted Talk. We're here to listen.
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More and more, but it's still not enough.
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Some leaders come to a private class with me and like they
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don't ask for movement. They ask for like, hey, I want
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to understand how can I communicate better?
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How can I give more comfort to my dance?
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But and then I check that and when I go to the social, where
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is this? Where are those leaders that
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really search for this? Sometimes I don't have much
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time, like to stand and watch the party.
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But I still feel so like kind of sad when I see a leader forcing
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A follower that we are able to see that she's not able to do a
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head movement yet or someone that is losing balance and that
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person keeps turning the follower and like, where are the
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people that really are searching for communication and not
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execution? So I really believe that is on
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us teachers a lot, but it is also on the students, on the
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community. So followers, I know that it's
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more for the leaders, but followers, I know that we
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sometimes in the terms of we are not in giving up, we keep doing
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something that is hurting us. We are not communicating them
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that hey, this doesn't work by force.
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This doesn't work. So this is also for the
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followers to understand that we are not obligated to keep doing,
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to keep forcing ourselves in a dance that doesn't exist is this
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amount of communication. That's one point that for me,
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it's important, even a reminder for myself because it being a
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teacher, I still have that chip inside of me that I wanted to
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make it happen, even if the person doesn't know how to do.
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And I believe we all have the intention of going together to
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have a good experience. We love that dance, we train
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that dance, we start that dance. Let's go and say yes.
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But inside of these yes, what is the commitment to do movements
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or to communicate, to check with ourselves what we can build
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together. And I know as well that from the
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past until now, leaders are still and maybe isn't the name
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leaders. We feel the pressure or leading
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the way to guide that to build that story, but it's an
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invitation for you guys to like. Let's share this also because I
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heard from the leaders too, that, ah, when it's my time, I
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need to provide comfort. I need to understand the
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movement. I need to lead the right.
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I need to protect the. A.
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Lot of jobs. A lot of jobs I understand guys
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I need to, but in then I also understand that when I'm really
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trust that I'm together with someone in that experience, I
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remove a bit the heaviness on my shoulders and like, yeah, I'm
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with you. What we going to do together And
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if this person gives a little, I will not force more.
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I really check in this little the beauty we can find together.
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So my invitation is for you guys to trust more in the person in
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front of you and to invited more than execute.
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Remember that if we see Zook as a language, the movements are
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the words, the sequence are the sentences.
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And what is the meaning we wanted to transmit?
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What is the meaning that I want to listen from my father?
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So how much you are listening during the dance?
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Ask yourself or sometimes ask your friend, ask someone for
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feedback. And this is for both sides, for
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leaders and for followers. But for many, like good leaders
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that I heard from, they ask. They talk about it, they are
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open to change and to receive information.
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Things that we like to teach, we keep studying on ourselves In
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most of those things. They are not movement wise.
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They are more like how to refine the technique that it's about
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touching. It's about to enjoy the impulse.
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It's about the invitation. Take advantage of something that
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has already happened to change direct.
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Yeah, I think there's a lot of pressure that comes from social
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media, like you mentioned before, for beauty standards for
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what to buy and how much money to make and how to dance.
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Because when you see the videos that are popping on social
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media, most of the times they are the videos of dancers doing
21:05
the crazy stuff. So leaders feel that pressure to
21:09
do that. Followers feel the pressure to
21:12
be able to do that. And it's a whole pressure cooker
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that is making everybody very stressed and feeling like they
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can never be, they can never do, they can never get there.
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And it's interesting because I've been doing a lot of work to
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really detach myself from that to the point that now I have a
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new issue. You know, I'm always going to
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have an issue. So the new issue is, guys, I am
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dancing. I'm enjoying, I'm having fun.
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But I keep seeing myself telling myself in the middle of the
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dance, this is not challenging enough.
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This is not complex enough. Oh, the dance is so yummy.
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Everything's so beautiful. It seems like both of us are
22:06
having a great time. But maybe am I making the
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followers feel like I don't think they're good enough?
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Because I'm not trying the difficult things and the
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challenging things, like it's a whole board meeting in my brain
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while the dance is happening and people were discussing inside of
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my brain. And I'm like 1 is saying like,
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no, no, no, look, everything is going great.
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And the other one is saying, no, we need more.
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We need more. So it's this whole confusing
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thing because I sometimes as a leader, I feel like maybe I'm
22:39
not providing the experience that they see on social media or
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the experience that they see when I'm dancing with a
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different person. It's very, very complex because
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I'm trying to stay a little bit more, you know, whatever
22:58
happens, happens. But sometimes that voice comes
23:02
into my head and tell me, hey, maybe you should try more.
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Yeah, the silent powers that influence our decision making,
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our minds, and what is the reference of a good leader have
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huge impacts. I might be playing devil's
23:18
advocate here about this whole idea of awareness and slowing
23:23
down and all of that because I have experienced sometimes with
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the awareness that I have today, with the dance that I have
23:30
today, with this whole thing that I have today experiencing.
23:33
This isn't where the person, we couldn't find a way together.
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It's almost like the person was just dancing because they didn't
23:42
have the courage to say no. Perhaps they said yes by
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default, said yes, but I could feel that they were not engaged
23:51
with me, you know. And then we have a situation
23:54
where we go immediately in our heads and we can't get out of
23:59
it. And we are in a constant pursuit
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for some level of reaction from the other purse and some sign
24:09
that that experience is enjoyable.
24:12
So a smile, something like this, admit sometimes spy is not even
24:18
conscious. The thing that we do, we open
24:21
and dance and then we go like, I'll try this thing, I'll try
24:24
this thing. So you start to shift into the
24:27
movements and you try to have the movements be the thing that
24:31
will bring you that approval or recognition that you are wanting
24:36
to receive from the person in front of you.
24:39
You know, so we talk sometimes about the triangle of
24:42
priorities. So we have the movement, the
24:46
connection and the music. And I think for most people,
24:52
leaders and followers, the priority is in the movement at
24:56
times. And what I think we have been
24:58
talking about is to shift the priority to the connection and
25:02
then shift back to the movement and then shift to the music.
25:04
So just keep shifting the triangle over and over again,
25:09
but giving some attention to the connection piece of it.
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When a leader is in a situation of insecurity where we think
25:18
nothing is work, for some reason, the triangle flips to
25:23
movement and they go crazy. You know, we go a little bit
25:26
crazy. And there is this other thing
25:29
too. For us, it's sometimes really
25:32
hard to believe these things because of, again, the social
25:37
media and because of what we observe from the social true.
25:41
We see a follower dancing with the leader and they're doing all
25:44
these things and then she's laughing.
25:46
You know, my God, you have a bar and you look at your own skill
25:49
and think, I can do 5% of all that stuff of the day.
25:54
When she comes this with me, that smile that that follower
25:58
has on their face right now is going to disappear and I'm going
26:01
to hate this thing so much. So we go already thinking that
26:05
we cannot provide in the same extent that that leader was
26:10
provided to the followers. So we are constantly playing
26:13
with our generosity, security because all we want is a smile.
26:19
You know, it's some way of saying we are together on this.
26:23
We can go together on this. Nowadays, I have enough
26:28
awareness and enough understanding to realize that
26:31
sometimes the feedback loop doesn't start, doesn't happen
26:34
for a wide variety of reasons. So I stopped thinking that's all
26:40
because of me. But I remember back in the day
26:43
that I thought because I suck, I definitely don't know how to do
26:46
this thing. Now I know.
26:49
And now I was able to convince myself that even though I just
26:53
looked at the follower, let's say I look at you dancing with
26:57
Kuna and you guys are doing all these things and you are in a
27:00
trance, meditative state, reach, enlightenment, bow.
27:05
And like men I know now that we are just going to provide
27:11
different experience. They are equally nice, they're
27:14
equally pleasurable. We're going to go through
27:16
different pathways. We're going to use different
27:18
tools, and that's the beauty of it.
27:21
So for me, it's getting to an understanding where there is
27:26
something you can provide and that something is unique.
27:30
Tapping into that, recognizing yourself as someone who can
27:34
provide the thing and go for it. But that is really hard.
27:37
That took me so many years of mindful observation of
27:44
understanding really well and at some point believing what we
27:50
have been saying here. At some point I needed to be
27:52
guys. What Paloma is saying, My
27:54
teachers told me that's was 2009, almost the same thing.
27:59
But back in 2009, the role model of the great social dancing wore
28:04
how it felt because we didn't have Instagram, but we did have
28:08
the beginning of YouTube. But what was the whispers now,
28:14
what the bards would sing about? The legends were about how good
28:18
it was to dance with this and that teacher, to this and that
28:21
dancer. And then we would watch them
28:23
dance in the social. And we would be watching the
28:27
moves, of course, but we are mostly watching the faces, the
28:30
quality of the dance, like the quality of each movement.
28:34
Cause socials were crowded, there's not much space to do a
28:36
bunch of stuff. So people capture the basic and
28:40
the traveling in the floor craft, but I remember having
28:43
these fanboy moments when a name I heard about was in the social.
28:49
All flone is here and we'll go and then like, where is he?
28:53
Where is he? We couldn't find the person just
28:55
by watching the social because they were not doing something
28:58
too much or too different. Somebody that you point is that
29:01
person over there and then we could see and also the
29:04
professional, we could not see them right away.
29:08
You know, they will mingle in the crowds.
29:10
And then we needed to know who the person is.
29:12
And then by observing the dance we were like, oh, this person
29:15
knows what they are doing. And I think with today, where
29:20
the reference point of a good dance directly or indirectly
29:25
became the dances we do to demonstrate the full might of
29:30
the death, the full power of it in demonstrations.
29:33
And when we post the videos of the first places of the
29:37
competitions, we ended up creating the new role model.
29:42
So this is what the goodness is. So even though we say these
29:46
things, I'm more a little bit more pessimistic in the idea of
29:50
how long it will take for people to finally believe and flip that
29:56
triangle to connection and then flip back to movements and then
30:00
flip back to music a little bit more.
30:02
Yeah, when you said about the triangle, when you said about
30:06
your own personal experience, like what comes to my mind is
30:10
like, all we want, all of us, they just follow us.
30:15
Human being, we want validation. We want to have that feeling
30:19
that this works, this is nice, I am accepted.
30:24
But the other thing is we have no control actually with this
30:29
amount of elements that we have in our dance, we have no control
30:35
or formula. I really don't believe exists
30:38
one perfect way for we begin a dance, but we have the best
30:43
communication because we are all different.
30:46
So and then in the end of the day, one of things that I heard
30:51
from you, I heard from rule, for example, is the impatient behind
30:57
what is before the dance, before you go and embrace someone.
31:03
And I think sometimes it's also the intention that moves you
31:08
during your process of learning, during the process of you
31:11
growing with your dance. And maybe this is my invitation.
31:15
Check on yourself, leaders, fathers too.
31:19
But what is the source of your motivation when you go dance
31:24
with someone? Easy, cute movement.
31:27
Because it could be. And it's OK.
31:29
Oh, this movement's super cool, and I really want to execute,
31:32
but it's like really being again, if you're repetitive, but
31:37
that being again, with someone in that experience, whatever
31:42
result that comes from this experience because, yeah, maybe
31:47
I'm saying those things. And then you reflect, yeah,
31:49
Paloma likes this and that, but. And then you're going to see me
31:53
laughing in the dance floor doing crazy stuff, and then
31:57
you're going to see me at the floor.
32:00
There's five songs just here breathing on spot.
32:05
I love. I'm the type of follower that
32:07
love all the elements. But my point is, we'll be
32:12
different with each person. With Ki, with Kuno, with Lua, a
32:18
different experience. Because I even tried with
32:22
myself, with my thoughts here to not fix that.
32:27
I'm going to provide one experience for the person.
32:32
Actually, I don't know, I dance with guy and for me every dance
32:36
it is different because I'm different, he is different.
32:40
But kind of feel this silent commitment with each other to
32:46
listen where we are today, where we are now and not so committed
32:52
with the result. And I know that it can be so
32:57
easily for us to understand that oh, but if I get that result and
33:03
then the world will be ideal, I will be accepted, I'll be cool,
33:07
I'll be validated. But we have no control of the
33:10
result. We have actually the power of
33:17
settle our intention and each person will going to have a
33:22
different intention. But my dream for all of us is
33:26
when we go dancing with other person in front of us, we'd be a
33:31
little bit more empty of results and more full of that intention
33:36
of being connected or that intention that yeah, I will try
33:40
my best to communicate with you. I.
33:43
Think it's changing their goals. Now their goals is not the
33:46
result. The goal could be the process.
33:48
Now the process that will take you somewhere which unknown is
33:52
an unknown place that you discovered in the process.
33:56
Now reality we are more introduced to results when we
34:01
observe the outside world. So I'll give one example.
34:05
There is a movie that I really like from Studio and Ghibli
34:08
called The Boy and the Heron was the last movie from Studio
34:12
Ghibli and won the Oscar and everything.
34:14
I watched the movie 3 times already.
34:16
Loved the movie and then I watched a documentary that
34:20
followed the process of creating the movie.
34:23
It took seven years for him to create the movie.
34:26
And then you understand who each character represents and then
34:30
you see the difficulty there was to draw a scene that the boy is
34:35
eating Jelly and how it was hard for them to draw by hands the
34:39
scene. And then watching the movie
34:42
again you're like Oh my God, you cry again.
34:45
You see the whole process because you understood the
34:48
process, you observed the process.
34:51
And I think it's the same thing with watching these shows about
34:54
cooking that I really like on Netflix because you see the
34:57
process that the cook goes through to create something.
35:01
And that made me fascinated by the process that takes someone
35:05
to master a certain skill. So when dancing, I am more in
35:11
tune with the process than I am with the results because the
35:14
process is what is interesting and getting to the result as a
35:20
combination of the journey that we want to get in the process is
35:24
much more rewarding. So I understand sometimes that
35:29
me as a primary leader, that is security that comes from not
35:34
receiving the validation or receiving the recognition from
35:37
my partner, disconnects me from this awareness of the process.
35:42
And I go into let me do something, let me get you this
35:45
end part here to see if this, but there's almost like a
35:48
desperation for something that I want so badly.
35:52
Again, guys, the dance is just a mirror of how we live life and
35:56
how we are as people. And for the leaders who are a
36:04
lot, like you said, moved by these insecurities, the
36:09
invitation remains to connect with the process of creating the
36:13
dance with a partner because of the nature of the role.
36:17
That's what we bring. That's what we provide.
36:19
We provide this container in which the story in which the
36:24
flow will flow. So it requires a level of
36:27
awareness from us. And we say this and we wanted to
36:31
do these episodes too because my experience of the same social is
36:36
very different experience that Paula has of the same social.
36:41
And we hear that's very often from leaders and followers,
36:44
especially the teachers that travel together.
36:46
The teacher has an experience, the leader and the follower has
36:50
a different one, sometimes a very different one.
36:53
And we get into our restroom and the leader is like, Oh my God,
36:57
this was amazing. And the father was like, I don't
36:59
know what you're talking about, you know?
37:01
And that I think is really due to this aspect that the leaders
37:07
are just a more focused on pleasing by what they think is
37:15
the pleasing thing to do. And we almost need to rewire
37:18
everything to say this is cool. And before that, this is much
37:23
cooler. So work here.
37:26
So when you get here, it's going to be so much more amazing
37:29
because we have built up to dead points.
37:33
I remember once someone said that to me like, oh, I had an
37:37
amazing time, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, yeah, of course
37:40
you can control this story. But the leader put me in the
37:43
washing machine and I'm staying there until he took me out of
37:46
the washing machine. So.
37:47
And then I was like by the time and believe me, that doesn't
37:52
work all the time. I start to understand that as a
37:55
follower, I also can affect they story even when someone tried to
38:00
put me inside of the wash washing, you know, but it
38:04
depends a lot of the amount of openness of this person in front
38:08
of me to hear my response of their leading and just remember
38:15
one thing about you say then the exciting of the leader.
38:19
Like when I lead, I also feel sometimes when I embrace A
38:24
follower and I'm like in my mind, trying to like read my
38:29
body, her body and check our communication and I feel that
38:34
she's already ahead. She's already like in another
38:38
part of our dance and then I give up and then I start to
38:42
realize that yes, I can have all of my intentions, but actually
38:46
how would be to be confident of have no answer, no right way and
38:52
then actually ask you these two? Because at some point I realized
38:59
that it's me as a leader, especially being that place of
39:03
the unknown to see the following in front of me as a completely
39:09
different story every time. Some followers stay and they
39:13
embrace and then we can build up.
39:15
And with others, I feel that yeah.
39:17
If I go inside of flatter out and start to do a few movement,
39:21
it feels like I let space for her to speak before I speak
39:27
more. And sometimes I want that
39:30
because I don't want to give for you an answer or for no one
39:34
answer that I like a dance to start in that way.
39:37
I want a dance to be in that way.
39:39
But I really want and I desire as a follower, someone in front
39:44
of me that can we check what's going on today?
39:48
Can we both committed off? We don't know what's going to
39:51
happen and whatever comes will be good because we are on this
39:55
together. I think a lot of distress and
39:57
anxiety comes from focusing on the experience and the process
40:02
or the expectations and the results.
40:05
So like what you guys describing, I wrote this line
40:08
here just to summarize in my head.
40:10
When we're focusing on the experience in the process, we're
40:13
more present, we're more there from the very beginning for
40:18
anything that happens. But when you're focusing on the
40:23
expectations or the results, that's when things get a little
40:28
bit, you know, off. Like, for example, as a leader,
40:32
when I'm about to dance with somebody that I feel like I need
40:37
to do something, I already put that expectation on myself to
40:41
present a certain result. That's it.
40:45
Stress and anxiety. Or as a follower, if you're
40:47
about to dance with a leader, same thing.
40:50
Or sometimes as a leader, I'm chill, but I start dancing with
40:55
the follower and I get the energy from the follower that
40:57
they are expecting something from me because there's that
41:02
something type of energy that maybe they're nervous, maybe
41:07
they're excited, maybe there's something, but there's an energy
41:10
of like, I'm here, I'm ready. You can do whatever you want,
41:15
but whatever I want was what was happening.
41:18
You know, like whatever I want, not me wanting, but whatever I
41:21
felt that the moment was asking for was whatever was happening.
41:25
But I think maybe that follower or the leader already came with
41:30
an expectation of dancing with this person to get something as
41:35
a result. So I don't know.
41:36
I go and I ask Guy for a dance in the social and I'm like, oh,
41:40
I just want to feel hugged for my life.
41:43
But then, you know, the DJ is going crazy and guy goes crazy
41:49
and I'm like, oh, I didn't get hugged by him.
41:51
You know, he was just doing all of this stuff.
41:53
So I went with a certain expectation for a result that I
41:57
didn't get. And that's a big issue with how
42:01
we connect in social dancing. Like full stop.
42:06
I think you'll say it all. I think you'll summarize from
42:08
the end of the day, everything is said comes down to presence.
42:11
Focusing on the process is a matter of presence and poem was
42:16
saying the communication, let's see what we can do together.
42:20
Again, another manifestation of presence.
42:22
I think it's all relating to this idea of this abstract idea
42:27
of presence, which manifests in the physical bodies through the
42:32
intention of being presence, through the desire of being
42:35
presence and the curiosity to learn the best way and the best
42:40
way. And I say best way for me is
42:42
really related to the ease, how easy it will be on the mind and
42:47
the body to go through those movements.
42:50
And also as a leader these days, I have like a toolbox of
42:56
movements and of dynamics that empirically over time, I know
43:04
resonate with more people. It's almost like I know these
43:09
foods here would taste good for most palates.
43:12
You know, most palates will enjoy this dish.
43:15
So I served this dish first. Not about this dish here.
43:18
Let's try and then from there. It's safe.
43:22
Yeah, it's safe from there, more salt, more pepper.
43:25
Take this out. Put the meat.
43:27
Take the meat, put the fish, take the fish.
43:28
So we. Start.
43:31
Making a different cuisine from that point, but there is a
43:35
starting point. You know, one thing that I
43:37
realized one time, there's something Portuguese, we say
43:40
Dasher condition, leave it that I leave it to you know, which is
43:45
I'm waiting for an input from the father.
43:48
The father's waiting the input from me and we are waiting for
43:51
each other to input from each other and then nothing happens.
43:54
We literally stand on the spot. I just happened a couple of
43:57
times. So I need to present an initial
44:00
one. Let's go this way because one
44:02
thing that we mentioned too is that the leader, he leaves
44:07
transitions and doesn't lead the execution, the execution of the
44:10
movements. The follower executes and that's
44:14
how we learn. We learn through observing the
44:16
execution. We lead the transition, so we
44:19
take that as a cution transition into a new one.
44:23
Now our panels are movements, so I'm leading the transition from
44:27
averaging into a later on, but I'm not leading the execution of
44:32
the village and the execution of the lattera.
44:35
That's the followers. And that's how I learn how big
44:39
this step, how quick this step, where their weight is, how my
44:44
hands and arms shape to the shape of their bodies as they're
44:47
doing the movements. You know, because I feel
44:49
confident in my positioning, I know that I can position myself
44:54
efficiently. So I reduce effort on my body
44:58
while having that Villa Gin Intralatera being that dish like
45:02
here it is, here's the dish that most people know how to do.
45:05
Most people appreciate this dish here, which is our Villa Gin
45:09
Intralatera. You know, so this would be like
45:12
a way that I can put in practical terms what for me is
45:19
the presence is the observing the process.
45:22
You have an initial idea. You present that you lead the
45:27
transition from one thing to the other, and you are tuned in,
45:30
observing the execution with your eyes and with your touch
45:35
with your connection. So seeing our touch, our
45:39
connection has extensions of our eyes and throats.
45:42
Through there we see, and through here we communicate.
45:46
So much. And when you say need the
45:48
transition, for me it's given an invitation and it's so good when
45:53
someone invite for something and not force me to be someone else
45:58
with my body. OK, Paloma, just before we
46:02
finish, I do have one more very important question that I would
46:07
like to ask. How can leaders lead as a
46:12
conversation that we want to create, but they're not like
46:16
advanced professional yet. They're beginners.
46:19
Maybe they're intermediate. How can they create a
46:22
conversation at that level? I believe like when we learn
46:28
basic step, when we learn the first embrace, it has already
46:33
enough for us to say the first words like we say, hi, how are
46:40
you? So again, connect with the idea
46:43
of this is a language that's will be the amount that you have
46:49
for that communication right now and trust that will going to be
46:53
enough. So practice on top of what you
46:57
receive. So you receive basic embrace,
47:02
let it out, go deeper on the observations of what you do and
47:07
what you receive from your follower.
47:10
Because yes, we're going to have a leader that is beginner, A
47:14
follower that is beginner. And how can they find that
47:18
conversation? Really trusting what they have.
47:21
It is enough for this initial conversation.
47:26
What sometimes for me block us to take advantage for the things
47:31
we already have is being ahead is being like I would just gonna
47:36
have a good dance if I know this, this and that.
47:39
So these already prevent us to be in the presence because we
47:44
are focused on something that we don't have yet.
47:48
So my advice is go deeper on the sensation of the first things
47:54
you learn. So yes, I learned basic how I
47:57
feel when I do my steps or how this person in front of me do
48:03
their steps. That's my advice.
48:06
In terms of beginners, for example, I don't believe you
48:10
will need to be an advanced leader to build that container
48:15
of communication. So then, what would be your last
48:19
message for our leaders here? If you could imprint something
48:24
in their minds and bodies, they'll last a long time.
48:27
Well, that be. Yeah, I would say leaders be
48:31
cures. Don't try to be the one that
48:34
always had the answer. Trust that you can find lots of
48:39
answers together with the person you decided to this the person
48:43
in front of you who want to build that story together that
48:47
this remove a beat, the heaviness on your shoulders to
48:52
lead it all and find a ways to amplify your listening.
48:58
And for me, that's the way that also will help you to be more
49:02
impressive with your partner and not somewhat attach it on the
49:07
results you want to get it. You can find so much more
49:11
different results when you are really in tune with the person
49:16
in front of you. Thank you.
49:20
Amazing. That was chef's kiss.
49:22
See. You again.
49:25
So what's so hard? Chef's kiss from Paloma Alvis
49:29
guys, thank you. Thank you so much for another
49:33
beautiful episode. Paloma.
49:35
We are so excited that both of you are going to be travelling
49:39
together around the world and sharing all of the knowledge,
49:44
but at the same time, a little bit selfishly, we're here at
49:48
secondaries. We're happy that you guys are
49:50
traveling together so that we can have you as a guest as well.
49:54
So thank you, thank you, thank you.
49:56
Thank you, everybody. Thank you SO.
49:58
Thanks, Anderson. Thank you a lot.
50:00
And once again, if you like what we do here and you're enjoying
50:04
this podcast, please like, follow, subscribe and share this
50:07
with your friends so we can continue growing this community
50:10
and this platform as well. And we'll see you all with us on
50:16
the next episode. So thank you.
50:18
Thank you, everybody. Business, Business Abrasus and.
50:22
Ciao to everyone.