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Unveiling the Power of Medicinal Mushrooms with Origins Skincare and Erewhon Market · Skin Anarchy

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_02: Hey guys, welcome back to Skincare Anarchy.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is your host, Decta, and I am so so excited about this interview because we are going to be talking all about Origins Skincare, which is one of my favorite brands of all time.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think um, you know, a lot of you out there have heard of Origins.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a skincare line that has been tried and true for so many years for so many of us.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: And um today I have with me Dr.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Andrew Weil, who is an absolute icon in the space of integrative medicine.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Weil is the founder and director of the Andrew Weil Center of Integrative Medicine at the University of Arizona.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: He is a renowned author, having written so many scientific and popular articles and books.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: His 15 books are truly wonderful and something I will be listing, so definitely check them out.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_02: Weil is also the founder and editorial director of the popular website, drwil.com, as well as so many other amazing endeavors he's taken on, and just truly a leader.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So, and with him we have Courtney Russell, who is a dynamic leader in the world of health and wellness, and is currently serving as the director of training and development for Aaron Markets.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm really excited about this episode.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is going to be really fun.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Weil, thank you so much for taking the time.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Courtney, thank you so much for taking the time.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so honored to be hosting both of you.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Hi.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: Lovely to meet you both.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to get started.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Weill, if you could tell us a little bit about your background.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's incredibly impressive, and I would love the listeners to get an understanding of all of that and kind of understand all the work that you've done over the years.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a physician who has pioneered the field of integrative medicine, but I did my undergraduate work at Harvard in botany and have a career interest in medicinal plants, also in medicinal mushrooms.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I incorporate that into my medical philosophy and medical thinking.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: I traveled the world, especially in the 1970s and 1980s, looking at healing practices and other cultures and looking for valuable medicinal plants.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, that's wonderful.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's just so much there that can be unwrapped.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I know that botany is a very, very deep field.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember I took medical botany very shortly in undergrad, and I was just so enthralled by how much there is to learn there.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: So that's very impressive.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um Courtney, I would love I I would love to learn about you as well.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Courtney, if you could give us a little bit of background about yourself and your work.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just such a pleasure to be here.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Dr.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: McGill, it's such an honor to be speaking with you.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, I am the training and development director for Air One.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've been with Air One for four years, and it's an amazing company based in Los Angeles.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's an organic food and cafe and holistic experience.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: And my background is pretty diverse with I'm working with different startups in the health and wellness world.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: I helped co-launch a company called the Coconut Cult.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's a probiotic coconut yogurt and was with Moon Juice in the early days of development as a regional manager and just kind of helping put the systems together for moon juice and really, you know, having fun riding that wave when cold press juice and tonics and Chinese herbalism was kind of hitting the mainstream and just seeing the enthusiasm of that grow over the years.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, there's so much information out there.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a an Ayurvedic health counselor and you know, studied Ayurveda when I was younger, probably around 19, 20 years old, I started getting into it.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: But it just feels like we're always just scratching the surface of these ancient practices.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much information out there.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: So it's, you know, I'm always learning and it's really fun to be here to be learning more from absolutely well.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love, I love that you have that background in Ayurveda.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge, huge believer in the power of Ayurveda.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: I am Indian by my background.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that over the years, even growing up, you know, I remember just learning so much about the potential of so many herbs and so many different properties that we overlook in modern medicine.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just, it's really cool to see it re-emerging in the realm of OTC and the realm of beauty and wellness and health.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm really excited that you have that background and that you come from that understanding.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's very cool.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's so wonderful to see it finally catching the ears of some more mainstream outlets and just seeing where it's going to go over the next, you know, 10, 20 years.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, Dr.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: Weil, I would love for you to tell us a little bit about your focus on integrative medicine.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of us don't understand what integrative medicine truly is.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I would just love for you to give us an overview and an understanding really of the field.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think integrative medicine is the way of the future.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is the intelligent combination of conventional medicine with natural and alternative remedies with an emphasis on healing, such subjects as nutrition and mind-body interactions, which are left out of conventional medical training.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is really becoming a mainstream movement.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Majority of the nation's medical schools have joined an academic consortium for integrative medicine.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: There are textbooks in the field, and our center at the University of Arizona has now graduated at something like 2,500 physicians from very intensive two-year fellowship to remedy all these deficiencies in conventional medical education and give them a healing-oriented uh philosophy and an appreciation of natural remedies.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I just feel like that is just so long overdue, too.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's long overdue.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: Because I just I remember being in medical school and it was like, why are we not talking about this link between everything?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, now we have these.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm sure Dr.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Wile, you've seen in the media or wherever that we are now having buzzwords, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: About like gut health tied to your brain health and your skin health and all these things.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like, I feel like this has been around for so long and we've just been ignoring it.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's truly fascinating.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it is finally happening.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: And now I think it's also going to be propelled by really hard-nosed evaluations of cost because healthcare costs are simply unsustainable.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the promises of integrative medicine is that it can enhance outcomes while lowering costs.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: It does that by first really shifting the emphasis to prevention and health promotion, then also by bringing into the mainstream treatments that are not dependent on expensive technology.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: I include pharmaceutical drugs in that category.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and I want to actually ask you, you know, while we're on the topic, and from your perspective, what what do you feel that in relation to skin, right?
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_02: And skin health, what is the skin's true role when it comes to the body from this integrative approach?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, the skin is the largest organ in the body.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um secondly, it I think its two main functions are to keep things in and to keep things out.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, it prevents us from losing water and minerals, and it protects us from toxic exposures.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it is a very sensitive organ.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's really our interface with the environment.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, absolutely.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_02: No, I I think that uh being the largest organ, it just it's always so fascinating, right?
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's just like I kind of compare it to the brain in some ways, because we act like we know so much these days about every other organ, but really with the skin, it's so comparable to how our you know central nervous system is, in my opinion.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if you agree, Dr.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely, and it reflects our general state of health for sure.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a way we judge other people's well-being by looking at their skin.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a very important, you know, organ.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Courtney, I would love to ask you about this, you know, because uh like we talked about, you know, there's a a huge emergence happening, you know, especially in the wellness space when it comes to not only understanding, but then also applying these principles, right?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: In a way that consumers can then interact with these philosophies and understand them and bring them into their own daily lives.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: So could you maybe tell us a little bit about the intersection between um the beauty and this wellness world and the food industry from a business perspective as well as, I guess, more of a holistic perspective.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was talking to somebody a while ago where they mentioned that the FDA classifies, you know, over-the-counter beauty products and wellness products in the same realms they do food.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it really caught my attention when they said that.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I'd love to get your your thoughts on that.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: And just to comment on what you and Dr.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: Weil were just talking about with skin as such an important organ in the body, I mean, I think it's all connected to the fact that we're at such a pivotal moment in humanity and in our world history where there's just a lot that we're up against, you know, with our health.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many factors affecting us from the air pollution to like a degradation in our soil, and we're not getting all the minerals and all the nutrients that we need.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's really wonderful that we're at a moment where we we maybe used to look at the skin and just go, oh, it's just like a vanity thing.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: And now we're starting to go, actually, it's all really interconnected, and we have to approach wellness from so many angles and from all of the organs of our body.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, to get back to your question, the intersection of really business and food and beauty, it does feel very timely to you right now.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you walk into an air one, and the first thing you're gonna notice, if you've ever been in an air one, you walk in and you see these beautiful vegetables and fruits, like our produce is incredible, it's all 100% organic.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then maybe you go to our cafe and you see this incredible restaurant quality food and everything looks appealing.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you start to go down the other aisles, the nutrition aisles or even the grocery aisles, you will see so many products that have different aspects of your health included into it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll see micronutrients added to cereal, and you'll see, you know, superfoods added in places that you wouldn't expect.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one, it's a great business idea to get people more engaged with your product.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: But two, it's just we've got to get nutrition into our system as easy as we can.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, food is such a great way to do that.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Skin care is such a great way to do that, just feeding our vessel and feeding all of these nutrients because we need it and most of us are efficient.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I completely agree with you, Courtney.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's very, very interesting that you brought up the subject of micronutrients, especially because I think we often don't think about that really with the skin, you know, as consumers.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think a lot of times in the skincare industry, from what I've noticed, at least, it so much focus is placed on things like just actives, you know, what can you do to slough off layers of your skin?
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: How can we get that glow, that immediate result kind of thing?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And no one really focuses on this idea that you do have to nourish this organ just like you would water a plant, just like any other part of your body.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I found that to be very interesting, what you said, because I feel like consumers are turning a corner, but we're not quite there yet, you know, to where we're seeing this really come into the limelight on a whole industry level, if you know what I mean.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's getting there, I think, but not there yet.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we're slowly starting to see that beauty does come from the inside out.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And no matter what you put on your skin, you also have to think about what you're putting in your body, the you know, kind of water that you're drinking, the foods that you're eating, there's pesticides in them, like all of that's gonna show up on your skin.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think we're at that turning point where there's enough information out there to the wider public that we're starting to see more of a move towards a more integrative approach to beauty and to wellness.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: And Dr.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I want to ask you, um, what do you believe?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, based on that and everything Courtney's told us just now, you know, I would love to understand what you believe to be truly the pillars of good skin health and really maintaining that from this nutritional standpoint, especially.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, first of all, I think nourishing the skin from within, drinking adequate water, making sure you have essential fatty acids in your diet, things like omega-3 fatty acids from fatty fish, monounsaturated fats from nuts and avocados, a range of antioxidants, uh rich foods, which are mostly going to be fruits and vegetables of good quality.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all that is super important.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: A next step is protecting your skin from external irritants, either whether that's too much sun exposure, atmospheric pollution, or things you put on the skin.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I strongly recommend that people consult the website of the environmental working group, ewg.org, that has a registry of many cosmetics products and for safety and for ingredients, which often are not uh stated on the labels of products.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I think you want to be careful what you put on your skin.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: Not only does it affect the skin, but it's just most of these things are absorbed into the system in general.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: Now, and I know that with origins, as especially as a brand, I remember just as a beauty connoisseur and consumer, when I discovered origins, I was like blown away because it was, I think, the first time I experienced truly like a clean beauty brand that I felt like I really resonated with.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember just wanting to understand more and trying to learn like where does this really come in with understanding what we can and cannot do with the skin, you know, in terms of limitations.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to learn a little bit more about your partnership with Origins over the years and, you know, and this year, uh, if you could tell us a little bit more.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, in 2005, the then CEO of Origins, uh, Daria Myers came to me and asked if I would be interested in collaborating on developing new skincare products.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And my reply was that I didn't know anything about skincare products, but I might be able to come up with suggestions for novel ingredients to test.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And my first thought was to look at mushrooms because I had a lot of knowledge about medicinal properties of mushrooms, and that knowledge was not generally appreciated in the West.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd admit for centuries people in East Asia had used mushrooms medicinally, but not in Europe, not in the Americas.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I gave her a list of mushroom species that I thought might be useful for reducing inflammation in the skin, for reducing redness, for promoting barrier strength and hydration.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Arge then then tested these in the Estee Lauder laboratories and found that a number of them were indeed very powerful and appeared to be safe.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And after we went back and forth formulating products, and that was the birth of the Dr.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Weil for Origin's mega mushroom line, which almost instantly became Origin's biggest selling products.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I believe this was these were the first products to incorporate mushrooms in skincare, which now has become incredibly general.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they're just there's so many skincare products that use mushrooms.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: And in general, I think mushrooms are really having a having a moment right now.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there's great interest in them, all sorts, whether it's uh psychedelic mushrooms, culinary mushrooms, medicinal mushrooms, they seem to be everywhere.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they're certainly in many, many skincare products.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think I've been interested in mushrooms since I learned about Timothy Leary.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: So I I hear you there.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I I think you're absolutely you know right when you said that they're really having a moment because we were looking into it, you know, a skincare anarchy just to learn a little bit, right?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: And tremelo mushroom is everywhere, I feel like these days.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us a little bit about um you know specific uh types of mushrooms?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe we can start with tremella.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you mentioned tremelo.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: The common name of it is the white jelly fungus.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And if you find this in the woods, it looks like a blob, a sort of translucent blob that's moist.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, it has a long history of use in Chinese cuisine.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's used in soups and in sweet desserts, uh, like fruit cook and syrup that has pieces of this mushroom in it.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: It has almost no taste, it's like got a pleasant texture, but it has been valued in Chinese medicine as a healthful ingredient to consume.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: And Tremella holds an enormous amount of moisture.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: It can hold a number of times its own weight in water.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we have found that it really promotes hydration and water retention in the skin.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's in a number of our recent innovative products, including the Omega Mushroom Restorative Skin Concentrate, which I love.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of my favorite origins products.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Another mushroom that we use uh in many of the products is Rishi.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's the Japanese name.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's called Lingja in Chinese.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's been called the mushroom of immortality, has an incredibly long history of use in uh Chinese medicine and Japanese medicine.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is a woody shell fungus that grows on trees in the forest and it often looks lacquered on the top.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's quite beautiful.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's too bitter and too woody to consume, although it's totally non-toxic.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's usually made into a tea or extracts of it are used as medicine.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a mushroom that has very significant anti-inflammatory effects.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, it's been shown to be equal to ibuprofen and anti-inflammatory action.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we use it in products to reduce redness and inflammation.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of our, and we harvest it sustainably.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a wonderful species.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: And one more I'll mention is chaga.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a mushroom that has a long history of use in Russia, in uh northern Europe, it grows on birch trees, and it looks like a piece of hard black hole or cinder coming out of the trunk of a tree.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Again, too hard and woody and bitter to be used as a food, but often taken as a tea for medicinal purpose, and has a strong reputation as a preventive of cancer and an anti-inflammatory agent.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we use a fermented form of chaga, which increases its absorption and increases its effects.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: Those are several of the species that we use in our products.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, yeah.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: I've heard about fermented chaga actually.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: And recently I believe it came up.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I'm always interested when you look at, especially from the microbiology perspective, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: You look at all these different things that people are talking about.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the microbiome a lot these days as well.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when you look at anything that is related to fungus, I think for me as a scientist, I look at it in a more fungus is just more robust, whether you're trying to treat it from a clinical perspective in other ways, or whether you're trying to utilize it through extractions and using it in products.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: I would love to learn a little bit more about that, uh, Dr.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: If you could tell us about, you know, just how mushrooms really, in comparison to other botanicals, right?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Where is that, I guess, difference that you've noticed with them in terms of their properties, their nutritional value, and all of that compared to some other stuff?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, mushrooms are not plants.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and many people don't understand that.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: They're actually more closely related to us than either of us is to plants.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: We share more DNA sequences with mushrooms than we do with plants.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, so we branched off in evolution, you know, together, and plants went in another direction.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, mushrooms have very different physical characteristics and chemical characteristics from botanicals.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of their characteristics is that they've got polysaccharides, which are complex molecules made up of sugars that are indigestible but work as prebiotics that feed the good organisms in our gut.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So, one reason to include mushrooms in the diet is that they really help the microbiome.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't get that same mix of chemicals from vegetables.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: Mushrooms also have unique compounds in them that aren't found elsewhere in nature that have beneficial effects on the immune system and increase our resistance to infections, bacterial infections, viral infections, as well as to cancer.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: In nature, mushrooms and bacteria are competitors, and mushrooms have evolved a lot of chemical strategies to defeat bacteria.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And most of our antibiotics come from fungi and were originally discovered in them.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And that's you know one of their useful properties as well, increasing resistance.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: No, that makes sense.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I like that you really kind of differentiated that for us because I think, especially when it comes to modern day medical practice, right?
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, when I look at dermatology, for example, we have very dated drugs, in my opinion.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think the drugs that are available to clinicians, they're just, I think they need to be re-evaluated at this point because there are so many options.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to get your opinion, Dr.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: Wild, about this, because obviously botany has immense potential.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like bringing that potential over into just allopathic medicine, I feel like it's been overlooked in a lot of ways.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we're considering all of the things that you just told us about, what could you tell dermatologists?
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: If you have patients, for example, that are experiencing a lot of redness, or rosacea, for example, comes with a lot of redness.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the pathologies that has that.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: How could dermatologists and clinicians and doctors really incorporate botany and these principles into their practice?
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And bring them out.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mentioned that our center at the University of Arizona, we train physicians.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: And with a two-year fellowship, we've had a number of dermatologists come through the fellowship and we teach about medical botany to the physicians who come to us and make them aware of important medicinal plants that they should know about and use.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And there are a number of things that are quite useful.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Just as one example, in Mexican folk medicine, the main skin remedy is a plant that in most of the country is called chaparral.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Here in Arizona, we call creosote bush.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: When it rains, the desert smells of this.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: It smells, you know, it's got a wonderful medicinal smell.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: But this is used as a tea in Mexican folk medicine that's applied to the skin.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I found it really useful for uh treating atobic dermatitis and other irritations and redness of the skin.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one that most dermatologists have never heard of.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: You can hear Tucson where it grows everywhere.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I like to show people how to use it.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that's yeah, there's so much potential, you know.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't see why we're not putting this in pretty much on every shelf and every dermatologist is also a product.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's slowly happening.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's slowly happening.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I met only a handful of doctors who studied botany before they went into medicine.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: And those two fields used to be very close.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, 200 years ago, if you wanted to study medicine, you had to study botany because most of the remedies that were used were plant-based.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then that fell very much apart in this era of enthusiasm for chemical drugs and not much communication between the worlds of botany and the word of medicine.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: As I said, it's slowly starting to change now.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right, absolutely, absolutely.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: No, I know what you mean.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's as a side note, and uh I think it's kind of an oxymoron that we've uh gravitated a little bit away from that because that's where all of the major advancements came from was botany.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I hear you there.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, Courtney, I want to kind of shift focus a little bit, ask you about this partnership with Origins from the perspective of just long-term goals in both industries, right?
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_02: Of food and skincare and just obviously, you know, integrative medicine overall as well.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, sure.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Air One, if you know a little bit about Erwin's history, we started out as a macrobiotic study group in the 60s, actually in Boston.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: And this group of people who founded Air One were very much trailblazers at the time.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: They were seeking organic food.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: They were seeking products that were just not widely available in the United States at the time.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what I found really cool and just humbling about growing with Er One is that there's such a focus towards working with trailblazers and partnering with people who are putting information out there that may be controversial, maybe not widely accepted by everybody.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so when we think of Origins and Dr.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Wilde, I mean, both are such trailblazers in their own right.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um I remember going to a hair salon at like 15 years old, and they were using Origins.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, at the time, it was like the only natural product out there for hair.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember my hairstylist talking to me about the product, and they were just planting those seeds so early on before that was available.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, Dr.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Weil, I'm your work has influenced, my guess is, a huge amount of the Air One customers.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: And the research that you've done has been a huge part of allowing our business to grow.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just kind of like a match made in heaven partnership, you know, it just makes so much sense.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Courtney, I was in, I was living in Boston and Cambridge in the 1960s.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And so I had knew the people in that macrobiotic group.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I used to go to the East West Institute for dinner, and I stopped in the first store that was there.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a long time.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I didn't even know that.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that really adds to the partnership.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, must have just been a long time coming.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I love that.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think that is such an important point that though, that Courtney that you brought up, because see, this is the problem I feel like that we're always overlooking is the concept that we have to bring in truly the leaders in science and medicine.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can't do products and wellness and anything that has to do with your health if you don't have that level of knowledge that, for example, Dr.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde, that you're bringing to this whole space.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I can't imagine creating a brand without somebody who has really trailblazed in a scientific realm.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't make sense to me.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I look at so many different, you know, products or what, or just the industry at large, and I wonder, I'm like, where's the scientists?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, where's the where are the brains here?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, in the sense of, I know, no disrespect to other specialties and other fields, but science is it's a whole different realm that you're bringing in at that point.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that perspective is the foundation of anything that's going to work or go further.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I would love to get your perspective on that, Dr.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: What are any thoughts you have about that?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, science.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, Origins, the the motto of that company had always been powered by nature, backed by science.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that that combination.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: The Estee Lauder Company has very extensive laboratories and great staff, and they do very rigorous testing of products.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I've always liked that about them.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that combination of uh an emphasis on natural products and then scientific research to document the effects, I think is unbeatable.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope that others follow in those footsteps because it's truly a very potent combination when you really mix hard science with something that is available to consumers.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: But I want to ask from an overview perspective, actually, maybe Courtney, you could lead this discussion because what do you think from the realm of like understanding it from a business perspective in terms of nutrition, integrative wellness?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: How do you think these things have evolved over the years overall?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, um, that's a great question.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's, as we've been talking about, it's certainly evolved a ton.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think about, you know, when I was younger, I was learning about juicing and using my at-home juicer and following.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure if you're familiar with the raw food detox diet by Natalia Rose.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: And within however many years, everybody started to turn their attention to cold press juice and and learning about how the nutrients can be more intact when we do the cold press method.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so we saw like an evolution in juice take place just in a short amount of time, really.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: And now there's so much awareness on how cold pressed juice, the technology of the cold pressed juice and the nutrients are kind of the better way to go.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen that trend happen on so many levels.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about macrobiotics in the 60s, 70s, 80s.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's still a lot of people who follow the macrobiotic way of eating, but now there's just such an evolution towards being aware of the benefits of animal protein and ketogenic diets and paleo diets.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: You've seen all of these things evolve.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I would definitely say there's not one right way to go.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many benefits to all of these evolutions.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that where we're at right now is that there's kind of room on the table for all of these lifestyles and diets because the information is there.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so you can take all of this research and information about what works best in our bodies and really focus on one type of diet or lifestyle and see how it affects your body.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're a business in the health and wellness world, then you can really have a huge group of people, like a huge audience.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas before, if you were a niche lifestyle or diet, you might not be able to access as many people in your audience.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: That makes sense.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's very interesting when you were mentioning Wolf Press.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like I remember being in college and it was like, what was it, like the beet juice diet or something like that?
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's the first time.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is the first time I discovered anything about juicing.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I hope to God this works, you know.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: And there was just no knowledge, there was no information.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like now I, yeah, and especially now, you know, it's like we have juices and all these uh things available now that it just even 10, 20 years ago, we just had no idea, you know, what this stuff was.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so yeah, I think it's very, very interesting and indeed.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um that reminds me actually of something that I was gonna say earlier about this is just like you're saying, we used to just really have to trust the brand or just trust the author and just, you know, kind of hope that what they were saying was true or that group was saying was true.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: But now we can all research together, and there's so many ways to validate the information that's out there.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's a really wonderful time for people to embrace wellness in in a new way.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: And very well said, I completely agree with you.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's a really major discussion that needs to happen on that topic, actually.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think within the industry, because you know, when it comes to just merging different disciplines and understanding like how to really optimize this, I think this is just the era to do that.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: We're finally taking steps forward.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I completely agree with you.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Dr.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde, I want to actually ask you something on that note.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: I know that there's a lot of brands out there that listen in, a lot of founders.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to get your advice about this, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: Because obviously you are so accomplished and you have such immense knowledge in your field.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And to be able to work with someone such as yourself, what could brands really how could they approach that?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Is really my question.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: If they want to work with somebody that has such an intense scientific background and understanding, like what are some things that brands could kind of take away here that would help them integrate this realm of science with what they're doing from a business perspective?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think the challenge is that there's too much information today.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this is very confusing to consumers and probably to people with businesses as well.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's no substitute for seeking out reliable, trustworthy sources of information.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I said I've now trained a lot of doctors, and I would recommend that people use one of our graduates as a consultant.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So if you go to our center's website, which is integrative medicine.arzona.edu, there's a directory of our graduates and the fields that they're in and their locations.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think they are highly trained experts and can be very good advisors.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's amazing, and I love that.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: I love that you're bringing that full circle, you know, it's not just training them, but now putting them in the right place.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's really cool.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I hope some founders are listening in that could really avail that opportunity because this is this is huge for wherever we're going and the evolution of just OTC products.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: I want to round out this interview though, and I really want to ask for some advice for the young professionals out there, Dr.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Weil, especially in the realm of STEM.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think that it's it's more confusing now than ever to kind of find your place in medicine and science and all of that.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I would love to get some words of advice from you for the young professionals out there.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think there's great consumer demand for wellness advice and guidance.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's a big market opportunity for people who want to supply good information.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, as I said, I would recommend again seeking out trustworthy sources of information.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I have a number of books.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have a website, drwilde.com, that has a lot of information there and other references.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's one place people can start.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: But I think you want to focus your attention on some area of the field and really get up to speed in that and be able to help people.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And uh Courtney, I would actually uh love Courtney, I would actually love for you to give us some advice as well, especially about entrepreneurship and being able to have this holistic mindset, you know, when you're approaching building your brand and really trying to put the facts behind what the marketing, really that kind of thing.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: If you could give us some words of wisdom there.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would echo what Dr.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: Weil is saying, and it's really all about trusted resources and building trust with your audience.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Air One is such a huge focus for us internally as a company.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about it all the time.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: How are we building trust with our customers, with our brands, with each other as a team?
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's so crucial.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: So we're always looking to uphold integrity.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you allow people to buy in on that process, the more transparent and high integrity you're going to be.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we let our customers weigh in on what we're doing.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes our customers know more than we do, and they course correct us if we're off on something.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: We have a lot of stakeholders in the business that are contributing to what we're doing and making sure that we are on track.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: An example that Jason Widener, our vice president, talks about is when we had the decision to package our cold press in glass or in plastic and could have saved probably a lot of money initially on packaging in plastic.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: And we chose to go with glass.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: We fought for it.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it was such a smart decision because now we recycle over a million bottles a year.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it's amazing.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think my advice in part is just to really think about transparency, about trust, about doing the work, doing the research, and making sure that you can really stand behind what you are putting out there to the public.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's so important because people will people will find out the truth.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_00: They will figure it out.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to let people hold you accountable.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's huge.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: And it only puts more wind underneath your wings as a business.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It will carry you much farther in the long run when you do that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for saying that, Courtney.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Gosh, I could not agree with you more.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like we are screaming from the rooftop transparency, transparency, all this stuff, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_02: But then it's like you always wonder, it's like, well, if you want transparency, bring the facts and tell people the fact, bring the science.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I love what you said.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't agree more.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for saying that.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: But it has been such an honor, Dr.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is such an honor to have had the opportunity to talk to you and to learn from you.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: And Courtney, thank you so much for coming onto the show.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a huge fan of Origins and also mushrooms.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: I've always loved mushrooms.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think there's immense potential there, as Dr.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_02: Wilde explained earlier.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: But thank you so much.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: This has truly been a highlight for my week.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: Good to talk to you.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_01: And Courtney, can uh you stay on?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: I have a question for you when we sure.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, thank you so much.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: This has been so much fun and such an honor.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks again.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 36:07
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• 36:10
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