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Strong Roots, Heavy Loads: Mental Health in Agriculture · Conservation Stories

• 0:00
  Speaker A: Foreign.
• 0:14
  Speaker B: This is Hilary Timmons Sims. And welcome back to another episode of Conservation Stories. Conservation Stories is brought to you by the Sandhill Area Research association or Sarah. And we really appreciate your listening in. I hope that you have enjoyed. We're about at the year mark of putting out these episodes and this month I'm really thrilled to be able to have some folks talking about mental health. And if you haven't had the time to listen, a couple weeks back released a conversation between my husband and I talking about the impact of our farm bankruptcy. And then today recorded a friend of mine, that's a banker, Sam Nesbitt, talking about the crisis, current crisis that we're in. And today I wanted to have some ladies on that are working in mental health and for people to understand the impact of what we're talking about. Ag suicides are three times at the rate of other industries. Is that correct?
• 1:17
  Speaker A: Well, so like, the way that data has been, like the way surveillance has been done and data has been collected has been different between studies and sources. And so to be on the conservative side, what we usually say is at least two times more likely. Some studies have found three and more times more likely. But because some seem smaller, we say at least two times more likely.
• 1:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. So let me go through and let's introduce people. So, Tiffany, people might be familiar with you and your podcast. Would you give us a little intro of yourself?
• 1:49
  Speaker C: Yeah, for sure. Thanks, Hillary. I'm Tiffany Lashmit. I'm the extension agricultural law specialist for Texas A and M. I'm based up in Amarillo, but I have statewide responsibilities doing educational outreach on ag law issues. I do a podcast, it's called Ag Law in the Field and that's what you mentioned. So thank you for plugging that for me. It's a great. I am sort of the black sheep in this crew and that I don't have any professional training when it comes to mental health, but it's a topic that's really important to me given some situations I've dealt with in my own life with folks that I love. And so it's kind of a passion project for me and I appreciate the two actual experts we have here for letting me kind of tag along.
• 2:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, I, I wanted to have you on because you're, you are my go to one because I, when I started doing some research to see what was available, immediately a podcast came up and a video that had you in there. So I knew you'd know some things. So we have next with us, Michaela, and I think I'M saying it correct. Michaela Smith, and would you please give us a little background on you? Yes.
• 2:56
  Speaker A: Thank you so much for having us today. Let me say something really quickly. I think that Tiffany is selling herself short. She's really the glue of our team and provides the insight into. We have some mental health expertise and also, I mean, I have some ag background, but Tiffany is really that. That glue for us within ag. So just wanted to throw that out there.
• 3:17
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 3:18
  Speaker A: I work for Agri Life Extension Service as a program specialist within the agency's disaster Assessment and Recovery Unit. My, my background, educational background is in public health epidemiology. And then I do a lot of work now in the space of disaster preparedness, disaster response, ag, mental health, and also some youth and general population mental health as well. Those are my areas of focus.
• 3:43
  Speaker B: Okay. And then we have Michaela Spooner.
• 3:47
  Speaker D: So I'm Mikayla Spooner. I'm a psychologist for the Texas A and M Telehealth Institute. I have a doctorate in counseling psychology. Farm and ag kind of falls in my personal life as opposed to my professional life. But we are bridging that gap with our Project Farm. Hope that I'm certain we will talk more about. But that is my role to see farmers and ag workers in a remote format for counseling services at no cost across the state of Texas.
• 4:22
  Speaker B: That is so the thread here that's linking everyone, if people haven't noticed, is AgriLife. And for folks who may not be familiar with extension, Tiffany, would you give us like, you know, 30,000 foot view and understood. So people, we've had folks on from extension before, but I don't think I know that. A lot of people listening to us do not understand why you guys are involved in this.
• 4:50
  Speaker C: Sure. Absolutely. So extension is sort of the outreach arm when you're in a land grant university system. Right. So Texas A and M, if you think about it, there's kind of three pieces to Texas A and M as a land grant institution. One of them is the educational kind of teaching right on campus. What we think of the university one is research. And that's where we've got brilliant scientists who are doing all sorts of research, often in College Station, but also at our research centers around the state. Extension. Kind of our job in this whole puzzle is our job is to bring the things that the researchers are learning and that the teaching faculty is learning on campus kind of out to the public. Right. And so we do that in a number of ways. And so we've got folks who do educational outreach throughout the state, we've got a network of county extension agents who are local in every county in the state. Folks like Michaela and I are specialists. And so we focus kind of in a particular area. And then we also, through the Texas A and M system, have a number of other institutions that fit in as well. That's where Dr. Spooner would come in. She's with the Telehealth Institute. And so that's kind of, you know, another arm where they're working specifically on more telehealth, those types of issues. She just has this ag focus that makes her a perfect fit to partner up with our extension work.
• 6:05
  Speaker B: It's, it's easy, especially in an urban area, for people to be completely unfamiliar with extension. And, and we, in fact, the friend of mine that was here, the banker friend of mine, said that he thinks it is just highly under underutilized anymore. And I thought that's actually a pretty good way of, of saying that because I even, you know, in rural areas, I don't see the impact of extension like I saw when I was a child.
• 6:29
  Speaker C: I, I've heard some of our administration call us the best kept secret in Texas. And I think that fits in a little bit with what you're saying. And you know, I think also another.
• 6:38
  Speaker A: Thing that makes it a little bit.
• 6:39
  Speaker C: Confusing is everybody knows 4H and yes, extension, right? Yes. There are all these other pieces to it as well, like this farm health project that folks might not be familiar with.
• 6:49
  Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. So I'm, I'm gonna kind of just let you all kind of lead here because I don't really know for sure what, what all you're doing. I, I know the impact in my life personally and I'm, I know that the, that when we released the podcast and my husband and I had several phone calls and several people saying like, I like never heard anybody talk about openly before, you know, and like what, how healing it was for them. And, and so I appreciate the people that took the time to do that and I would like for us to continue to be able to break the stigma and keep talking about this. So what if we start, what if we start there with Michaela and you give us a little bit about kind of what you three are doing together.
• 7:43
  Speaker A: So when we're thinking about ag stress, I mean we're really talking about two different components here. There's the piece of rural health and rural health disparities because many of our ag producers in Texas live in more rural parts of the state. And then there's this Other component of I work in ag or in farm work. And this is a very stressful occupation. So it's not just the ag piece. It's also this geographic component of living in rural Texas. And if you've ever lived in rural Texas, you know how difficult it can be to access health care services, quality healthcare services. Do you know Tillery where Lipscomb county is?
• 8:20
  Speaker B: I do.
• 8:22
  Speaker C: You do?
• 8:23
  Speaker A: I lived in Lipscomb county for five years. He has a cattle ranch out there. And out there I had two. I had two children while we lived out there. And we had to drive two and a half hours to Amarillo. And I said as a joke, but it really, I mean, it wasn't that I made him watch YouTube videos about how to deliver a baby on the side of the highway because it's real life for people who live far away from quality healthcare services. And we see that both for primary care and general healthcare services, but then also specifically for mental and telebehavioral or behavioral health services. They're hard to access when you're living in a. In a really hot. And then again to bring in this other piece of working in ag. There are so many factors within this industry and working in this industry that are out of producers control. And Tiffany is going to talk about a piece that we are in their control about. Ag prices, disaster, drought, pests, weather, commodity prices. I mean, all those things, no matter how well a farmer or rancher does his job, things can still go wrong because there's a tornado or there's. Or flooding that can completely wipe them out. And so this issue is really kind of at this intersection of these barriers because people live rurally and then also happen to work in a very stressful occupation. And so Tiffany can talk a little bit now about this farm and ranch succession planning piece, because one of the things we know is the thought of what is going to happen to my operation when I'm gone or what do I want to do next? Who am I going to leave my legacy to? That can be very stressful. And so in our education efforts, Tiffany does trainings related to farm and ranch succession planning and explain what that looks like.
• 10:24
  Speaker C: Absolutely. And I'll be honest with you, when we kind of first started this, I had some questions about how kind of an estate and transition planning program would tie in with mental health. It's worked really well. So I'm glad that Michaela had that foresight to tell me. And it was great. And so, you know, I think two things. One thing, when we talk about the particular Stressors related to being involved in agriculture. Everybody thinks of the ones that Michaela mentioned. Right. Commodity prices, drought, fires, things like that. I think one of the biggest stressors that maybe we don't necessarily always articulate, but that always is kind of overlaying that for a lot of us is that idea of kind of the generational family farm and ranch legacy. That's right.
• 11:08
  Speaker D: Shoulder.
• 11:08
  Speaker B: That's right. You don't be the one that. That messes it up.
• 11:11
  Speaker C: That's it. Right. I'm the one that can't hack it. And now granddad and great Granddad and all their work was for nothing. Right. That is. That is no joke, a pressure that people have to really, like, grapple with and deal with. And so I think a. Recognizing that that's a stress is hugely important. And we'll talk in a minute about why Dr. Spooner fits into our program so well. Related to that. But another piece of that is as we're thinking about that legacy and as we're thinking about things we can control and ways we can ensure that that continues, taking the time to really think through a succession and estate plan is a huge thing that folks can really do to protect their operation going forward. It's not fun. Nobody likes to think about dying, but he have these conversations about their feelings. Right? All.
• 12:01
  Speaker B: Yes. Nobody likes it. Yes, that's true.
• 12:04
  Speaker C: Right. That's so important. And so I think that that piece kind of tying in with the rest of the mental health work that we're doing has worked really well and has been really effective at getting producers, you know, to the meetings and to the table and thinking about some of these issues. On that note, we're going to hand it over to. To Dr. Schooner to talk now. But I'll tell you, I think the key to a program like this being successful is having somebody on the other end of the phone for producers who understands what they're going through.
• 12:35
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:36
  Speaker C: Because, you know, you think about your. Your bankruptcy situation is a perfect example. If you had called a counselor who did not understand. Right. Who didn't really get the background of what you're going through. And like I mentioned, the whole generational legacy thing, if they don't get that, it's very difficult, I think, for you to really connect with them and really get good services.
• 12:58
  Speaker B: No, it's very true. And, you know, even more than it is, it is your DNA legacy.
• 13:04
  Speaker C: That's it.
• 13:05
  Speaker B: That's. That's really what it is. It's. It's not just like losing your job. It's losing your identity.
• 13:12
  Speaker C: That's exactly. That's exactly it. And I think that having somebody who understands that is so important. And that's why Dr. Spooner is really the star of the show. Because unlike some other hotlines, and I'm not bashing anybody who's got a hotline, we need them. All right, Unlike some of the other hotlines, if you call the Farmhope hotline, you're getting Dr. Spooner. You know what she looks like, you know her background, she understands. And so I'll turn it over to her a little bit about what the service offers.
• 13:39
  Speaker B: Okay, thanks. Out here on the Texas plains, water is everything. And there's a resource that's as vital as it is fragile. Our Playa Lakes. These lakes are nature's reservoir, catching rainwater to recharge our aquifer and provide. Provide lifelines for wildlife. But now they need our help. In collaboration with the Texas Ply Lakes Conservation Initiative and the Cargill Global Water Challenge, Sarah has started the Our Legacy is Tomorrow's Water initiative to inspire and work with landowners to restore and protect our Playa lakes. Each playa we save helps secure a sustainable water future for the generations that will be coming after us. Whether it's improving soil health, restoring habitats, or recharging groundwater, we are committed to making a difference. Together, we can build a legacy that we can all be proud of. To learn how you can join in, visit the Playa Lakes Restoration Initiative page on the SARAH website. Let's keep Texas water flowing strong for the future. Visit sarah-conservation.com Michaela, I did want to.
• 14:54
  Speaker A: Clarify that we're not. Farmhope is not a hotline. It's just a passage or access point for telebehavioral health services.
• 15:01
  Speaker B: Gotcha. Okay.
• 15:02
  Speaker D: I think that's a. A great clarification because we can provide crisis resources. Absolutely. But we are definitely more geared toward ongoing therapy services. Can be. Can be longer term, can be a variety of presenting concerns. Doesn't have to be ag related and I'll get more into that, but I'll start by kind of framing how I got here and why. This is also kind of a passion project for me as well. I feel like we all kind of toe the line of the overlap between pharm and ag and mental health, even though we all have different roles. So I think that's a really unique aspect of our team and focuses on on a variety of strengths that farm hope and the succession planning events bring to the table. So I grew up in a more rural part of town. No, I was Not a farmer or rancher, but I was around lots of farmers and ranchers and really wanted to embody that lifestyle as much as I could. From a young age, I really got familiar with the values of that population and that group. And that's something that's been consistent throughout my whole life. So I still have horses. I had a horse all through grad school. And I, I've always been interested in how mental health can overlap with the values that farm and ag workers and people within that community hold. Because we're not a touchy feely kind of group. Right. But there's a lot of stressors that farmers and ag workers go through and we're trying to, like you said, break the stigma so that these, these individuals and these families know that getting therapy is not a sign of weakness. It's actually a, A, a huge, a huge aspect of being strong and courageous and resilient and showing perseverance. Values that we all recognize within this population. It's terrifying for a lot of people to start therapy. And if you can, yeah, if you can meet with a clinician that understands that as well as understands the parts of you that are so important, maybe that farm legacy, maybe not wanting to lose the farm, dealing with the, all the economic stressors as well as weather and environmental stressors.
• 17:50
  Speaker B: Right, right.
• 17:52
  Speaker D: You already, you already have a much more tailored therapeutic experience than if you go through your insurance company. There's, there's a, there's lots of wonderful, really great qualified clinicians out there.
• 18:07
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 18:08
  Speaker D: We are just trying to decrease the number of hoops that, you know, to jump through.
• 18:14
  Speaker B: Okay. And. Well, I will say this, that I, I've had the, the best and the most impactful experiences and the worst. I've had both. And, and my very favorite therapist who's helped me for so many years said one time, there's a million bad counselors in the. All practice in Lubbock, Texas, like so. But it has gotten so much better, I think, in the, even in the last 10 years. And probably I think it is because of the, what we know about trauma and how, what we've learned about how the brain and the body respond instinctively helps to remove some of the shame that people feel about the, the choices that they make when sometimes they're not actually making choices, you know, and so I do think that that has led to, that, that knowledge has led to a whole new generation of therapists that are more empathetic and are more aware of the nuance of what, what I'm choosing and what I Might not be choosing. So, yes, I. All of that to say I, I. When I first, the first time I went, I, I did put it off forever because I was pretty sure that they would. I wouldn't be able to come home, that they would commit me, you know, and, and not the case. Not the case. I mean, everybody is here thinking they probably should have, I'm sure.
• 19:56
  Speaker A: But, you know, it's funny you say that.
• 19:58
  Speaker C: I just.
• 19:58
  Speaker A: One of the things I teach, mental health, first aid, which is a comprehensive training, giving this.
• 20:02
  Speaker D: You have.
• 20:03
  Speaker B: I have.
• 20:04
  Speaker A: So one of the things we talk about in the training is, you know, you might get a bad haircut one day. And does that mean that you're going to stop getting haircuts? I hope not. You just got to find the person. Right. You're not going to get a bad haircut and stop. I mean, experience, which people do have bad experiences, you know, and try again, because there will be someone out there who.
• 20:25
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 20:25
  Speaker A: For you, the way you need to be cared for or who can give you a haircut, that you look good.
• 20:30
  Speaker B: Exactly. And I think that is. That is such good. You know, I always tell people, go and don't talk about things that are painful. You'll figure out if you like this person or not. You know what I mean? You don't have to go and tell them your life story or anything. Just go and talk to them and you'll figure out really quick because it's all about relationship. And if you don't like this person and you can't relate to them and they completely aren't relating to you, move on. That part of our, part of our charm in. In our culture is that we want her by his feelings, you know? So I'm like, you have to just be, like, willing to, like, not go back. So I'm sorry, I'm taking over. This is, this is really. No, go ahead, go ahead.
• 21:16
  Speaker D: Yeah, no, that. That was fantastic. And so many great points there, right. From breaking down the stigma by acknowledging that a lot of what we do, a lot of our behaviors, reactions, emotions, are a result of what we've been through and our ways that we have coped with life and the things that life has thrown at us, they're not wrong. They kept you alive this long. They kept here this long.
• 21:39
  Speaker B: Yes. Maybe.
• 21:41
  Speaker D: Maybe some things aren't working for you now. That's okay, right? They're not.
• 21:45
  Speaker B: Right. Well. And, you know, I think, you know, part of what I have learned about understanding trauma and when I think about growing up on the farm, and there's a lot of traumatic things that happen. You love animals and let me tell you, nature is cruel. And you grow up normalizing that and getting a thick skin from the time you're a little kid. But those things, they, they're still there, you know, and maybe you do become accustomed to it and you, you accept it in one, at one degree, you mentally, you know. Right. But your body remembers those things. Not to get all kooky and weird, but it, it really is. What we know now through science is that that thing that might have seemed to you as a 50 year old man, sure. If it happened to you as a 50 year old man, no big deal. But it happened to you as a five year old boy, it is a big deal. And it all comes back. That's what I think people don't understand, is that the stress that you're dealing with now is all attached by string to everything in the past. And that's, it gets overwhelming. And that's when they need a hotline. And what do they get when they call you guys? Tell me about your hotline, what you guys do.
• 23:05
  Speaker D: So if somebody wants to start services with us, they just have to, to qualify, they just have to answer yes to two questions. The first one being you located in Texas, and the second one being are you or are you related to any farm or agriculture worker? So you answer yes to either one of those questions. I mean, it could be, it could be a nephew, it could be a son, a daughter, it could be a grandparent, a cousin of any kind of farm worker, ranch worker, anything that falls kind of under agriculture and qualifying.
• 23:41
  Speaker B: Okay.
• 23:42
  Speaker D: We don't file insurance, we don't take vouchers. So if you give us a call or if you fill out our online intake forms, you will be directly connected to our program coordinators who will transfer the call to me as long as I'm in the office, which I am here 40 hours a week. And then I would, I would call, I would call you up and I would talk about, hey, you know, I see that you might be interested in setting up a session. Let's, let's find a time to meet. Maybe it's tomorrow, maybe it's next week, Maybe it's at 8am, maybe it's at 6pm we'll figure out a time that works for you and we'll get you connected, whether it's on video or whether it's just by phone. And we'll talk about, you know, what's bringing you in and we'll kind of Assess if this is a good fit or if you feel like you only need a couple sessions versus, you know, 20, 30. Everyone's journey looks different. So we're cutting out a lot of the middle, a lot of the middlemen. You'll talk to likely just two people. Our program coordinators and then myself. And they are right outside my office.
• 24:56
  Speaker B: Wow.
• 24:56
  Speaker D: So you'll have to talk to insurance. You don't have to get any referrals from your doctor. We are, we are right here. And we can get someone set up. Do you charge?
• 25:06
  Speaker B: Are you. Tell me about cost. Do you guys charge? It's free. Okay.
• 25:11
  Speaker D: There's no cost. Yep. So the Telehealth Institute has a lot of different programs going on that serve rural communities all across Texas. Farm Hope falls under one of those projects. So I am funded through Telehealth Institute through a variety of different funding sources. And then we are able to provide these services free of charge.
• 25:35
  Speaker B: That's amazing. That is, that's a huge gift. Because so often, I mean, even if you find somebody can you afford it is a big deal. And farmers are self employed. So how many of them don't have insurance?
• 25:45
  Speaker A: Two other important barriers I feel like that we are addressing with having Dr. Spooner in college Station is this accessibility with privacy. So if someone doesn't have wow. And iPad, the Telehealth Institute can mail them a software enabled iPad with shipping labels to return them. Listen, again, I lived in county, yes, Sometimes to access good cell service, where I would be able to use that to drive to the top of a hill. But if I can get to the top of that hill, I can get to Dr. Spooner with the iPads that we send out. Of course, they can access from their own cell phones if they have that, but we wanted to make sure to remove that. And again, we know that this is a highly stigmatized issue within ag communities. And so you're not driving to an office in your small town.
• 26:35
  Speaker B: Right.
• 26:35
  Speaker A: Where someone. You can do this from the privacy of your home. Nobody has to know that you're accessing these services. And like Dr. Spooner said, can be for something really small, maybe a spousal. You need some help, help communicating with your spouse. Especially, you know, in ag communities sometimes, often your spouse is your partner. It can be related to that. It doesn't have to be. I've now reached the point of having suicidal thoughts. We want to help people before they get to that point. And so we often, when we do our presentations, use kind of these analogies related to Your physical health. And we know, you know, after a traumatic event, people are going to struggle. That's, that's, that's completely normal. So I'm going to tell someone I know who's gone through a really tough time, hey, maybe talk to someone now if you're struggling a little bit a month after, maybe a disaster, talk to someone sooner than later. In the same way that if you broke your arm while you're working on the farm.
• 27:34
  Speaker B: Right.
• 27:35
  Speaker A: Tell you, let's go get your arm X rayed and put in a cast right now so that it heals properly and, and you don't have a long term issue of this arm that no long, no longer functions properly three years down the line in a way it wasn't supposed to and it's now a chronic issue. And so in the same way we want to encourage people like, hey, this is normal to be struggling after these experiences that you've had. Call us now before you get to that point where it's more a more severe or chronic issues that we can help because we know that recovery after event is possible and have better long term outcomes with earlier intervention.
• 28:17
  Speaker B: When you know, one of the things I encountered a young man who works with veterans with PTSD and he was saying, I wish that we could get to the place with mental health. When we talk about mental health in a. When people's health are positive, we don't just talk about it. When people's health are negative, like, oh my gosh, he's going to therapy because he has good mental health. It's a good, like it's a sign of good mental health. When I know that I should, I need to go and talk or there's. Are you a cognitive behavioral specialist, Michaela? Do you do mostly talk therapy?
• 29:01
  Speaker D: Yes, I do. So I'm a generalist. But my orientation is definitely more cognitive, behavioral as well as humanistic. And basically that just means I want to talk to you like a human. I don't want to view you as an illness.
• 29:17
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 29:18
  Speaker D: And I think you're all right about that. I just had a client the other day say I didn't have anything bad to talk about. And I'm like, that's not the point. The point is you're here and we're celebrating your wins together.
• 29:31
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 29:31
  Speaker D: So.
• 29:32
  Speaker B: Right.
• 29:32
  Speaker D: Just as important.
• 29:33
  Speaker A: Right?
• 29:34
  Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And I know I've been tracking my just like moods recently due to some medicine and I. It has made me become more aware of like, you know, how is your mental health and it's rated. It from unpleasant to pleasant. And I thought that is so much better than good to bad because that's really more of the scale we should be looking at. It's not like, hey, my mental health is really bad right now. I'm like on the verge of suicide. Like, oh, it's unpleasant. And so instead of thinking about it being like, and then I will fix it and I will never have unpleasant feelings again. It's more about how do I build the muscle that that is going to help me on the unpleasant days.
• 30:27
  Speaker C: I think that's a great way to put it.
• 30:28
  Speaker B: Yeah. Today's episode is brought to you by Evan Stone with Clear Rock Farm and Ranch, part of the Clear Rock Realty Group in Lubbock, Texas. Evan understands west Texas land, agriculture, and what it takes to buy and sell farms and ranches and our unique region. If you're ready to make your next move, trust someone who knows the lay of the land. Visit Evan at clearrockrealty.com serving Lubbock and the surrounding communities, Clear Rock Farms and Ranch, your partner on the plains. Michaela, let me ask if you can do something for us. I know what made a big difference to me, I mentioned earlier is understanding the physiological responses and what happens. We know these things because of some scans that we have available just now. Could you, could you tell people what, what happens? What does your brain do when something bad is happening, like in the moment, like, you get, you get bad news or you're young and you have a pet die, or, I mean, like, it can happen at all different forms, I mean, at all different times. And it's impactful. And I'd like for, to maybe give us a little bit of the science.
• 31:46
  Speaker D: Behind that on a broad scale. We know that what we think, how we behave as well as what social media and what we're taking in and consuming on the Internet all impact our brain and how it functions and what neural pathways you're reinforcing and making stronger and which ones are kind of going dormant if they're not getting attention. My analogy for that is building a neural pathway is kind of like building a highway. If you start off with a dirt road, it's going to take a little bit of time, if it's, especially if it's rained, to maybe get down that road and it's not going to have, you know, lines on the road. It's not maybe it's a one, a one lane road so you got to move over when another car comes, et cetera, et cetera. That neural pathway is not going to be well traveled. That's not going to be your automatic thought. Whenever, whenever something bad happens and you feel some type of way, your automatic thought is going to go down, oh, the highway. That's going to be my quickest way from point A to point B. And whatever you're feeding yourself mentally is going to strengthen certain neural pathways. So that highway might be black or white thinking, for example. I'm going to say, well, it's either this or it's that. There's no other decision. There's no gray area. And that can lead to a lot of distorted thinking and a lot of emotional reactions. But that's the really, really strong neural pathway in your brain. So we know that if you take the time to slow down those thoughts, to replace them and start having construction done on less strong neural pathways, you can build up all these other pathways in your brain to be stronger, more readily accessible to healthier coping skills or coping skills that are really going to serve you. So that's one part of it. But particularly with trauma, we know that your brain functions differently after a traumatic experience, and there's lots of other diagnoses and presenting concerns that we know kind of shift how your brain functions. But I'll talk specifically about trauma. We know that the amygdala in your brain is going to filter and process emotions, particularly fear. And so when you fear for your life, your amygdala is putting you in that fight or flight or freeze mode because it's assessing what you're afraid of. If you have the ability to cope or the resources to cope, or if you need to get out of there, it's life or death. And then your brain remembers that your amygdala says, oh, yeah, I can go into that fight or flight mode pretty quickly. So if there's another situation that triggers your brain to believe that this is the same, maybe it's a similar smell from what you experienced in the trauma. Maybe it's a. Maybe the weather is similar. You know, it could be little things like that that you aren't consciously aware of, but your body is. And it, it sends a message to your amygdala on that really strong neural highway that says, we got to go into fight or flight because this might be life or death. And you survived last time, but maybe you won't survive this time. You're like, but I'm walking down a grocery store aisle. I'm not in immediate danger. You can acknowledge that. But you have to spend that time kind of talking your brain out of that initial Reaction because it's trying to protect you.
• 36:00
  Speaker B: It's so, because, like, one of the things that I, and I know I'm going to say this in a way that's the most unscientific way, but you got one side of your brain and it turns off because your, your body is literally going into like, we're going to survive this no matter what, at what cost. And so. And it's the side of your brain that takes in your senses, like it takes in your smell and your touch and the feel of the weather. So that's why the trigger is something that's in the senses. And the reason you're not at the moment making a good decision is because one side of your brain is off. And so you're not thinking, oh, processing right to left, right to left, right, right to left. Your amygdala is going, I'm in charge now. Everyone shut up. And I'm making all the decisions. And so then when you're talking about, oh, you might get a smell, what happens is, right, you tell me if I've got this right. You smell something, you don't even recognize that your amygdala does says. And it says, oh, I remember this situation. And your body literally thinks it's in the same situation it was when the bad thing happened. And that's the, the response. And so you do that response over and over again. So now I'll talk about when that, when that response happens. Cortisol. Right. Which is a stress hormone. And that leads to all kinds of things.
• 37:33
  Speaker D: Absolutely. Chronic stress can have a huge impact on not only your mental health, but your physical health. So you're looking at chronic fatigue, higher incidences of, like, heart disease and things of that nature. And there's lots of factors that influence, you know, how you age and how your health is. But we do know that chronic stress is a big indicator of lots of health factors over time.
• 38:02
  Speaker B: Yeah, well, and I, you know, I, I probably have a more of an. I wouldn't have ever told anyone 20 years ago that I was empathetic, but definitely that muscle has grown through the years, and I've learned to become more empathetic to myself and to understand that not everything is black and white. You know, and when you mentioned earlier about social media, that's what I see that that's what that is, what's feeding that thinking. And so I, I finally, I told one of my relatives the other day, if it makes you, if it makes you mad, if it makes you scared or sad, don't don't pay attention because they're going after you. They're going after you. That's what they're going after. And it's going to feed that negative, you know, pathway. Now, I think the way I think of, like, just in our culture, because we are so black and white, white thinking, that's how we're raised kind of in a rule. This is wrong and this is right and there's nothing in between. And when you have that dichotomy, it's very difficult to. Because you have to stop and think about adding some gray to that mixture.
• 39:20
  Speaker D: And that's really hard. Emotions are also not black and white. And regardless of if you want to have emotions or not, we do. Yes, we have them. And you can either push them away and they come out in other ways, or you face them and understand what they might be trying to tell you. Like, are you fearful? Are you angry? What is. What is that telling you about what's happening in your environment or what you're consuming on social media? Because we're now more connected than ever, which is so wonderful. And, you know, you have the flip side of the coin that you don't know everybody's story. You just get to see what's posted online.
• 40:01
  Speaker B: Yeah. And then people will. I don't know, it's like this permission to say, I don't know. It's like somehow people don't think they're in front of other people and they say things that would normally say. But, you know, part of it too is you go through and you read comments, you can see people have been triggered through their response, you know, and so I think that for people that grew up in very religious situations, like I did, and maybe not even as, you know, my. My background was very religious, but I think that it feels like you're making an excuse for people's behavior. And that is not what it's about. It's not an excuse. It's an explanation of why people function sometimes the way they do and why we ourselves respond to our. Maybe our kids when they're a certain age or to a spouse, you know, in certain situations. So I. I hope that those are things that people can, like, come to you guys and learn, you know, and not feel like, I need to. I need to gotta get my shit together.
• 41:08
  Speaker A: Yeah, you bring up some really great points. I'm thinking about how, how important it is when someone needs to seek professional care for an issue that they're dealing with. And so having Dr. Spooner is so valuable. But you bring up these points, Hillary, about like culture and rural communities and these thoughts that we have about mental health being maybe dichotomous. Either I'm well or I'm not well. When there's so much, it's so much less. And then also kind of making it this personal problem like you are making bad choices instead of really recognizing that your brain is responding in a way because of specific reasons. And I think that what we're trying to do, in addition to create access to clinical services when they're appropriate, we also just want to educate people because we know how beneficial it is. It is small communities if people have the education to be able to support each other. Because not everybody who is struggling needs to see a professional counselor.
• 42:12
  Speaker B: Right.
• 42:13
  Speaker A: But recovery looks different for everyone. And so simply having people in the community who have knowledge, research and evidence based knowledge about mental health so that when someone is struggling can respond and say, hey, how you're responding right now is normal. You're responding normally to something abnormal that just occurred after this disaster or whatever experience.
• 42:36
  Speaker B: Right.
• 42:37
  Speaker A: And who has skills to be able to listen? Because having somebody just simply listen to you without trying to fix your problem, very helpful in terms of bring after a traumatic event. And so I mean the work that you did, like you said within your church, we know that people are often turning to their faith based leaders in small communities.
• 42:59
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 42:59
  Speaker A: So if we can have offer anyone who works in a faith based community, offer them additional skills and training to say, hey, it's great to talk to people about their faith and how that can help with recovery because spirituality is a protective fact. But hey, let's also talk about being able to recognize signs and symptoms that might suggest that this has advanced to needing to talk to a professional clinician or how what are things that you can say that would make this person feel heard and supported right now? Do want to help. They just don't know, have the skills to respond in a multiple way. Either they say something that perhaps is not helpful or they don't say anything at all. And so then someone in the community used to suffer.
• 43:49
  Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
• 43:51
  Speaker A: So important to us too.
• 43:55
  Speaker B: Michaela, about the mental health first aid. Tell us about that because that would be, I don't know how often like those are happening or anything, but I love, I'd love for us to have one and love it. Can figure out how to sponsor one because it was so good.
• 44:10
  Speaker C: Yes.
• 44:11
  Speaker A: So there's lots of ways that we can support mental health first aid trainings. I work very closely within the agency with local mental Health authorities across the state. And they are wonderful partners because they receive funding from the state, not always for adult mental health first aid. Sometimes it's for youth mental health first.
• 44:29
  Speaker B: Aid, because that'd be great. Yeah.
• 44:33
  Speaker A: But contacting either me or your local county extension agent and say, hey, we want, we're interested and we have an audience of group here who wants to take first aid so that we have these skills to help people in our community. We can find a way to, to, to make it happen. And we've.
• 44:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's great. Well, we'd love to. Anybody that's listening, same thing. I mean, I think, you know, I, in my mind, I think about like churches that have small groups and you know, even like maybe parents that are doing little league or you know, it's. You're going to encounter people, you know, throughout your lifetime just to be able to really say, I want to, I want to be equipped to help my neighbors.
• 45:16
  Speaker A: Absolutely. Like you said, we're all going to struggle at different points in our lives. And so to have supportive people with skills to be able to help us through difficult times and not necessarily mental illness, just times in life is really, really important and can help people bounce back and recover after something scary or traumatic happens.
• 45:35
  Speaker B: Absolutely. Okay, so we have a few minutes left. Tell us how folks can get a hold of you, how folks can utilize your services and then we'll put that stuff in the show notes of course, with links and all that things. And if anybody has something else they want to say before we go and then we'll close it out.
• 45:52
  Speaker A: So the, the what we offer kind of under this umbrella of farmhope is education. So if anyone is interested in hosting an educational event, Tiffany and I will deliver education related to ag stress and resources for this community. Tiffany does an amazing farm and ranch success in training. And then Dr. Spooner comes in and talks about, hey, here's how you can plug into our clinical services to access that educational component. They can reach out to Tiffany or to me. But as Dr. Spooner said, anyone who's interested in those telehealth, those telebehavioral health clinical services that are free to anyone in Texas who says I work in ag or I'm a family member who works in ag. We'll put a link up to the Telehealth Institute's sign up link. Feel free to add anything else if you want to give your phone number out. Dr. Spooner.
• 46:41
  Speaker D: Yeah, I think we can include our clinic number. That's going to be a really quick way to Get a hold of me if you just have questions, if you're like, I don't really know if I want to schedule services, but I have some curiosities. We can talk about that just on a quick phone call. So I'll include that phone number. Also put my email so anyone can get a hold of me by email. That does not establish a therapeutic relationship, but again, it's a really great way to ask questions or get some feedback.
• 47:12
  Speaker C: The last thing so that I just want to say is I want to thank you for having us on and letting us talk about this topic. This is something we say all the time, but a huge barrier we have here is just having to fight this idea of stigma, right?
• 47:24
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 47:24
  Speaker C: And the unwillingness of people to talk about it and recognize it and admit that they've struggled. And that's something that we all feel really strongly about. And, you know, I look at this, my first experience losing someone to suicide, I was 15. And even the difference, you know, between whatever that's. I'm not very good at math. What's that, 25 years ago, even the last 25 years, I feel like there's been such a change. And in the last five or 10 years within the AD community, you know, we see see programs at the Plains Cotton Growers meeting and at M Classic, and we're seeing really focus on this. So I just want to say thank you to everybody who is helping to facilitate that conversation, everybody who's sharing their stories and sharing encouragement. Thank you for having us on your podcast. All of that really does matter.
• 48:07
  Speaker B: Yeah, it does matter. And it matters that we talk about it and we talk about it in a way that gets other people to talk about it. Yep. Well, thank you all, ladies, and thank you, friends, neighbors, for tuning in again. And I hope that you found all this very helpful. And we will once again in the show notes, we'll put all of the links and everything. Michaela, would you just say the phone number really quick for somebody that just needs to hear it and wants to write it down?
• 48:35
  Speaker D: Absolutely. You can give the Telehealth Institute for Farm Hope Services a call at 979-436-0700.
• 48:46
  Speaker B: Okay. Thank you so much.
• 48:48
  Speaker A: Appreciate it.
• 48:50
  Speaker C: Thanks, Hillary.
• 48:51
  Speaker B: Thank you, friends, for joining us for another episode of Conservation Stories. And we look forward to seeing you again. And if you found this helpful, remember to please like and share it with your friends. Thank you.