Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #126: Gill1918 presents Vince Anderson "400m Training Part 2" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic

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#126: Gill1918 presents Vince Anderson "400m Training Part 2" from Tampa Bay/USF Clinic · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

• 0:00
  Welcome to the Gil 1918 Project, a podcast series by coaches, for
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  coaches, powered by Gil Athletics.
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  Check out the show notes below For more information.
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  Now let's get into today's topic.
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  Now just FYI, when one gets to where one can run 5 by 200 with
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  five minutes rest and the average is about .4 to .6 faster
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  than the second 200 of their race, you've squeezed just about
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  all of that workout out of you can and you have to change the
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  stimulus. You have to go 4 by 200 with 6
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  minutes rest or you have to go 6 by 200 with 5 minutes.
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  You have to change the stimulus at that point.
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  So in other words, because we know 47.6 is the 1st 200, then
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  by default 52.4% is the 2nd 200. So for the 62nd person.
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  So can someone multiply please 60 * .524 60 * .52430. 140.
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  Four. OK, so when a 62nd, So when a
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  62nd person gets about half a second better than 31 Four, In
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  other words, they're running 30.9, they're just about
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  squeezed all they can out of that workout.
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  Here's a living example. Clora Williams, who was the NCA
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  champion in 2007 at 400 51 O 7 * .524.
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  She ran her last 226 seven in a race and she ran 5 by 203
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  assisted with the wind. 2 Resisted by the wind in 26,
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  three in week 28 to 30. So in week 28 to 30, she ran
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  4/10 better than the second 200 of her race.
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  That's about all you're going to get out of this workout.
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  That's time to reverse and change the stimulus.
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  When you get that fast, when it's four to 6/10 faster than
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  what your 2nd 200 is in your race, which is .524 of your
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  performance time. So back to week 14.
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  Now for the first time, it's taken us 14 weeks to get here.
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  Now we're going to run 403 hundred 200, but the rest has to
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  increase to 12 to 14 now because it's not a 350, it's a 400.
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  And the rest after the 300 has to improve to 9:00 to 10:00
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  because it's not a 250, it's a 300.
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  And we have to go back to the basis because it's the first
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  time we do this. So we're going to ask her to run
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  64 flat, rest 12 to 14 minutes, come back with 48 flat, rest for
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  9 to 10 minutes, come back with 32 flat.
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  But in a week 14 now she's running 403 hundred 200 at the
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  same pace she ran 5 by 150 at in week 1.
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  The chunks are huger and larger and the tempo has not degraded.
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  Week 15, I'm not. We're going back to 5 by 200
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  again. I'm not going to ask anymore for
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  a fourth straight week. I'm going to let people catch up
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  and stabilize if they need to or if they're already ahead of the
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  game. I'm just going to let them
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  stabilize. I'm not going to make another
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  ask. So we're going to stay at 30.8.
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  I build in little breaks into the after continuous demand for
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  a few stages. I'll get, I'll, I'll, I'll
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  design in breaks like you would in any other kind of teaching.
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  And week 16, then 432 for the second time, but now it's 2%
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  better. So now she's going to run 62746
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  five and 31 four, not 6448 and 32.
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  And so that's kind of how we do it.
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  Now you can do it this way too and it's exactly the same,
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  except instead of taking a basis and improving it by 2%, OK, you
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  simply apply a percentage to begin with, which is 84% of
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  their 484% of their 200 meter PR and go through.
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  Now let me explain one other thing.
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  My workouts really started to sing.
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  Like it really bothers me as a coach when someone says, oh,
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  we're running at 75% today. 75% what?
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  Because a lot of times people say we're running at 75% and
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  it's assumed that means Max. But a lot of people are saying a
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  lot of times people mean well, it's 75% of their 400 pace.
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  This is what I do if the intervals we are running on the
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  track are 200 meters or less. So if I run a 200 or A190 or
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  A180 or A-150 or A120I always take a percentage of their 200
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  meter PB, period. If the intervals were running on
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  the track are more than 200, we're running a 220, a
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  250A-280-A300A-350, a 400. I always take a percentage of
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  their 400 PB. Always.
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  And when I started doing that, damn, did things clear up.
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  You can't just across the board take a percentage of the Max
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  effort. Or conversely, you can't just
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  across the board take a percentage of their 400 people
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  because it's not appropriate. If you're running chunks less
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  than 200, your workouts are going to be more effective.
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  If you're deriving your think your ask off of their 200 meter
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  capability. If it's bigger than 400 you
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  should be asking a percentage of their 400m capability.
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  So that's a lot. No videos, just just crunching
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  up any questions. But that's how I never get lost
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  because I always know where I am when I do this.
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  And if I miss, what do I do? I just rollback the number until
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  it's right and then I'm on and I go from there.
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  I'm never lost. I'm never guessing.
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  If I miss, that's OK, and I've missed before, but it only takes
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  me one Rep of one workout to immediately know if I've missed
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  or not. And I just simply tell the guy
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  stop, come back tomorrow when I retool the numbers, I'll get it
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  right tomorrow if it's on me. But doing it this way, you're
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  never lost. You always know where you are.
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  You always know where they are. You always know what the fair
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  ask is. You know who's right with you,
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  You know who's lagging behind? Because if they work at at, if
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  they're applying themselves properly, they'll improve 1 to
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  2% every 14 to 21 days. And that's one of the important
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  reasons that you have to start out with the right ask, because
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  if they're running too slow, they're not challenging the
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  system enough to gain that one to 2% improvement every 14 to 21
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  days. And if they're running fast,
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  that's not, if they're running too fast, that's not sustainable
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  and you have to slow down, retract and retool at that
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  point. Too fast a progression retards
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  development, just like too slow a progression.
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  They both retard optimal development and you have to stay
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  away from both. Goldilocks.
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  Not too hot, not too cold, just right.
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  And these are these are damn close on the numbers.
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  So anyway, so that's how I think about when I'm training quarter
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  milers for the, we're doing, you know, endurance work, special
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  endurance work, that kind of thing.
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  Tempo, intensive tempo. This is what regulates my
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  thinking. There are no acts.
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  I'm not making it up as I go. I start at about 84% of their
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  200 meter PR running two 50s, excuse me, running in one 50s
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  and I build it up from there. I don't go at 86% of their 200
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  meter part PRI, don't go at 88% of their 200 meter PRI, don't go
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  to 94% of their. I start at 84% of their 200
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  meter PR running one 50s and go from there.
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  And it clicks. And I do that on the first week
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  of practice. That's where we start.
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  And the runs, because they're 84% of 200m pace, the runs kind
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  of look like they're running like it's not slow ugly running,
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  it's running with posture, high power levels, etcetera.
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  So thank you. Yes, Sir, to get those.
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  Numbers do. You need to.
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  Teach the kids how to pace those times so that they.
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  Know when you're well sure, of course, yes, there's some truck
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  and a lot of the kids will kind of know that, but there's trial
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  and error involved like I have athletes who will go out in the
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  1st 2. They will go out much too fast
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  and then crash and burn and I, I cut them off at that point said
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  you're done like you're come back we're going to try this
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  again tomorrow like, and they learn real quick when they
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  understand the workouts not going to go away like because
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  you, because you blew today like and I'm cutting you off after 2
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  like you don't get to skip it like everybody else is done and
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  you're going to be back with me tomorrow doing this again until
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  you get it right and they'll learn and then and then because
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  and the other thing too, it's not a hard learn like a person
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  of let me put it this way, a person of normal learning
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  aptitude will learn it very quickly.
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  Now, are there people who are difficult learners?
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  Are there people who are? Yes, they are, but there's not
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  many of those people and those people are special circumstance
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  anyway and you need to work with them accordingly.
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  But a a person of normal aptitude will adapt extremely
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  quickly to this. That's a good question, my.
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  My other question, once you set that 400 basis, like you had the
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  60, the 62nd girl and and will there be a point in time where
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  you kind of question like like I think I think she's much faster
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  than 60. Are these the Republican?
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  When I have good when I have numeric reason to say that.
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  So let's say I the first time that I ask her to run 644832 and
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  she runs 6238 and 22. I'm like, man, I underestimated
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  her. You're not a 60 flat person.
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  You're a 57 five person. And I make that call immediately
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  because like I see evidence to do so.
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  I'm not it's not wishful thinking.
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  Like she ran her way into that. So in other words, you can just
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  like you can set weight room maxes with a two or three Rep
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  Max. It doesn't have to be a one Rep
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  Max. You can project a new PR off of
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  a kind of workout if you know where you are, but they have to
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  give you reason to do that. You don't just assign that for
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  no reason. Immediately make that.
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  Cost yeah, when I see or, or it could be the other.
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  It could be the other. She could go to a race and split
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  56 nine and I'm like, well, you're not a 60 flat person
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  anymore. You're a 58.
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  You know, you're a, you're a a 57 flat per sorry, you're a 58
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  flat person. So when you see something that
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  they have outstripped, you can change the number.
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  The numbers are the numbers just to show stability and so that
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  you're making intelligent assignments and you know where
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  you are and you're not guessing. Yes, Sir.
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  So where are you implementing these intensive tempo days at
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  throughout the week? Would it be earlier in the?
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  Week or no, I do, I do. We do acceleration development
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  on Monday and then we do absolute speed development
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  before we do intensive tempo. And then Tuesday and Friday are
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  the days that we would do intensive tempo.
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  And remember, particularly when we're in season, we don't do
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  intensive tempo twice a week in season because the meats are
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  pretty much taking up one of those intensive tempo days.
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  So in the season, we might be doing 1 special endurance day.
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  Or what I really like to do is one week we do a special
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  endurance session and the meat and the next week we do
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  intensive tempo and the meat and I just sort of bounce back and
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  forth on that every other week rhythm.
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  But you can manage that however you want as a coach, anything
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  that makes intelligent sense to you.
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  No one has a better sense of you than you.
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  If it makes sense to you and your instinct tells you it's
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  right, follow your instincts. But you have, you don't have to
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  guess like, like you can make the right ask very, very quickly
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  and continue with that string of thinking all the way through the
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  season. Anyone else coach?
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  Like let's say for the evolution of your career, I'm just curious
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  with, with your 400 meter individuals, let's say spanning
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  from like Gary Kakaya all the way to like a Bryce Deadman,
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  Like what have you learned? What's been like the most like
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  steepest learning curve that you've learned with your 400
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  meter people? Like in terms of how do, I mean
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  you just kind of answered it a little bit, but with like
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  adapting to the person rather than making them fit this mold.
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  Because if you're getting more of like a voluminous like 800
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  meter guy kind of stepping down, you're getting more of a speed
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  reserve type athlete. Do you both try to funnel them
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  through in the system? The answer is the short answer
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  is yes, because these numbers are fairly accurate.
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  They're and they're not based so much on athletes body chemistry.
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  Like a person who's a, an 800 meter, 400 meter guy, I would
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  still ask him to improve. You know, maybe maybe instead of
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  asking to prove 2% every 14 to 20, maybe 1 1/2.
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  But like I have something strong and solid from which to make
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  really narrow judgments. I'm what I'm trying to avoid is
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  just outright guessing when I first started coaching.
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  I'm like just freaking guessing. I'm and I refuse to do that
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  anymore. We're going to know where we
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  are. I'm going to know where I am,
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  I'm going to know where they are and I'm going to make the right
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  ask. I'm not going to make the wrong
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  ask. High or low.
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  We're going to get right there in the ballpark and we're going
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  to bang away in that spot all year.
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  And that's what gets you. That's what gets you far in
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  training. It's when along over the weeks,
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  over the many, many, many, many, many, many weeks of the season,
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  keep banging away at that right spot, man.
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  Can you take it far? Yeah, yes.
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  I'm assuming this can also be used for 400 meter herders.
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  It's exactly the same for 400 herders.
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  Exactly. How do you manage newer?
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  OK, that's a good. Again, I think the tendency is
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  to I'm going to try to answer this.
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  It's a super intelligent question.
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  This is what I found in all the data, the 400 and 400 hurdles
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  are exactly the same. So 400 hurdlers come through
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  their 1st 200 in fourty 7.6% of the run.
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  Literally when I started coaching they said well 400
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  athletes and 400 hurdlers distribute their runs
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  differently. And by the way, they said women
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  distribute their runs differently than men.
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  They don't. Women, men, 400 hurdlers, 400
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  athletes, young athletes, old athletes, they all distribute
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  their runs who are running properly and well exactly the
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  same. There's no difference.
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  So if you're, if you're coaching a 12 year old, you want to coach
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  them to run. Functionally they should be
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  hitting around 47.6% of their performance.
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  Same for the hurdles. So is there some technical
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  reason? Oh, let me back up.
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  So you should be looking at differentials and this, this is
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  I'm going to get on a soapbox or I'm going to try to avoid
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  getting on a soapbox for this. This is why I can't stand going
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  to attract me and watching the 400 hurdles because there's no
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  shame. You'll literally see someone run
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  the 400 hurdles in 74 seconds like I've been to track me.
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  It's like 76 five. Like you should never, ever,
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  ever, ever run the 400 hurdles until you can run 60 flat,
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  period. When you run 60 flat for the
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  400. Now we can attempt the and if
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  you run it, you should run what about 63 five or 64?
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  If you're a 60 flat quarter mile, you shouldn't be running
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  76 five. And that's like malpractice.
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  So the, the, the murder we let our development 400 hurdlers get
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  away with is criminal. Make them good sprinters, make
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  them understand how to run the flat distance and then expect
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  them to run the distance over hurdles.
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  Exactly the same. Same posture, same rhythm, same
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  idea. Now, will it be slower?
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  Yes, because you're taking 10 hurdle clearance steps.
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  But it's not 60 flat to 76 five. It's 60 flat.
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  You should be, if you're running 60 flat, you should run 64 for
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  the 400 hurdles period. And until you can do that, we're
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  not going to seriously attempt the race.
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  But having these standards and not just letting them get away
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  with technical murder at the other end is really
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  developmentally healthy and good for them because they're not
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  told these limits. If, if, if that answers the
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  question, yes. Anything else?
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  Guys, give it up for Vince Anderson.
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  Thank you. I want to get Vince's own show
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  called, you know what grinds my gears?
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  It's all about track and field and.
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  Hey gang, Mike Cunningham here. Hey, I hope you enjoyed this
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  episode of the Guild 1918 Project series.
• 20:27
  It's really my mission, my passion to bring you massive
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  amounts of value and I hope this one hit the mark.
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  The Guilt 1918 Project is really dependent on you if for you to
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  build your own episode, to hear your voice, to have your voice
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  heard you have something to say and teach other coaches out
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  there. So please get a hold of me,
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  E-mail, text message, Twitter, smoke signals, get a hold of me
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  and let's help create your episode of the Guild 1918
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  Project. Hope you enjoy the day, they
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  will see you tomorrow.