Latest / Motherhood Uncut / Breaking the Rules with Suzy Holman | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 6 Episode 1

Transcript

Breaking the Rules with Suzy Holman | Motherhood Uncut Podcast | Season 6 Episode 1 · Motherhood Uncut

0:00
SPEAKER_02: Hi, I'm Kate Kripke and welcome to the Motherhood Uncut Podcast.
0:05
SPEAKER_02: This podcast brings the reality of motherhood to the table for real, honest conversations.
0:11
SPEAKER_02: Here we laugh, we cry, we learn, we grow, we are awestruck, amazed, humbled, and validated.
0:19
SPEAKER_02: But most importantly, together we begin to live in a new way that allows us to recognize the immense role that our own health and well-being plays in the health and well-being of our kids.
0:31
SPEAKER_02: Together, we recognize that everything we do to take care of our physical, psychological, social, and spiritual health is in service of our children.
0:41
SPEAKER_02: This season we are diving deep into the role that the shoulds and the shouldn'ts and rules and expectations play in our motherhood journey.
0:49
SPEAKER_02: Together, this season, we will learn to break those boundaries that hold us back from our greatest potential.
0:55
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna hear from moms who have taken this risk, from experts who help in this journey, and from family members who, Lord help me, have important insight to share.
1:05
SPEAKER_02: So pull up a chair, my friend, make a cup of tea, pour a glass of wine, put on your walking shoes, turn up the volume in your car.
1:13
SPEAKER_02: Let's do this together because nobody should mother alone.
1:26
SPEAKER_02: Welcome back to the Motherhood Uncut podcast, and I am so excited for this season.
1:34
SPEAKER_02: This is our sixth season of Motherhood Uncut, and um we're here because of you.
1:41
SPEAKER_02: We're here because you keep showing up and sharing your desires for different conversations and topics and giving us feedback.
1:49
SPEAKER_02: And I am just incredibly excited for this phenomenal lineup that we have for you.
1:55
SPEAKER_02: This season I'm highlighting a number of inspiring conversations with moms just like you, who have important stories to tell about real life motherhood, as well as some informative conversations with other specialists in women's and child health.
2:10
SPEAKER_02: And hint hint, Deb Rubin will be back.
2:13
SPEAKER_02: And I cannot wait for our conversation with Deb.
2:16
SPEAKER_02: Without giving too much away, I also want you to stay tuned for a family tells all sequence of conversations with both my daughters, who are now teenagers, and my husband.
2:27
SPEAKER_02: And we'll dive deep into the back end of life in the Kripke household for stories of both failure and success in motherhood.
2:35
SPEAKER_02: Today we're kicking off with a conversation with one of my favorite women on this planet, Susie Holman.
2:43
SPEAKER_02: I met Susie when I was involved in a mastermind for women entrepreneurs a few years back, and she's continued to be a friend and a colleague and a true inspiration to me.
2:54
SPEAKER_02: Susie is a mother of four and an entrepreneur, and we're gonna dive deep into what it means to break the mold and step out of the shoulds and shouldn'ts in motherhood and in life.
3:05
SPEAKER_02: Susie has done this on steroids.
3:09
SPEAKER_02: And while this brave process has included much grief and loss and loads of discomfort for Susie, it's also led her to a life of authentic connection, huge inspiration, abundance, and joy.
3:24
SPEAKER_02: And she's gonna tell us about why she's chosen this path and what it's looked like for her.
3:30
SPEAKER_02: And I have no doubt that you're gonna walk away with just a huge amount for you to think about in your own life because those shoulds, you guys, and the shouldn't, they keep us trapped.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: So we're gonna shake it up for you today.
3:46
SPEAKER_02: I'm really glad you're here.
3:47
SPEAKER_02: Grab yourself a cup of coffee or tea, glass of wine, put on those running shoes, all that stuff, put in your earbuds, whatever it is.
3:54
SPEAKER_02: But come hang with us for the next 45 minutes or an hour.
3:57
SPEAKER_02: I cannot wait to share this conversation with you.
4:01
SPEAKER_02: Hey listeners, there is literally nothing that I feel more inspired by than working with women who are ready and motivated to take control of their mental health and well-being in service of their kids.
4:13
SPEAKER_02: Because here's the thing: in my work, I get the opportunity to both watch the women who I work with feel better, and I also get to watch how their kids thrive along with them.
4:24
SPEAKER_02: If these conversations motivate you and if you're ready to shift out of the anxiety, guilt, and overwhelm that you feel and move back into confidence, calm, and connection, my 12-week program might be for you.
4:36
SPEAKER_02: If you want to learn more and talk with me about if it's a fit, go ahead and book a free clarity call with me.
4:42
SPEAKER_02: The link is in the show notes.
4:46
SPEAKER_02: Motherhood Uncut Podcast is sponsored by the One Clock.
4:50
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4:56
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4:59
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5:03
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5:15
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5:18
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna start by introducing you, but I have nothing in front of me.
5:20
SPEAKER_02: So I'm gonna introduce you from my heart, and then if you want to add something, you can.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Love this.
5:24
SPEAKER_02: Okay.
5:27
SPEAKER_02: Susie Holman on the Motherhood Uncut podcast.
5:31
SPEAKER_02: I love having you here.
5:32
SPEAKER_02: So for our listeners, Susie Holman, it kind of makes me feel I literally am a little, I just got choked up.
5:41
SPEAKER_02: Susie Holman is oh my gosh, a powerhouse, a mother of three or four, four, four beautiful children, uh, an entrepreneur, someone who has created several seven-figure businesses.
6:06
SPEAKER_02: She is a mentor, a coach, a human, uh, a creator, a connector.
6:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean, literally, I've as I have chills as I'm talking.
6:19
SPEAKER_02: And one of the things that I want our listeners to know, Susie, is that you and I met at this retreat that we went on because we were in a mastermind together for for entrepreneurs.
6:35
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:36
SPEAKER_02: And you were sitting at one end of the table, was dinner.
6:39
SPEAKER_02: Yes.
6:40
SPEAKER_02: And I was sitting at the other.
6:42
SPEAKER_02: And I think we both, you know, that thing that happens when you meet someone and you're like, okay, the universe had some divine plan here.
6:49
SPEAKER_02: We're supposed to meet each other.
6:50
SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I want more of that energy.
6:53
SPEAKER_02: And you were like, I want more of that energy, or whatever the term is.
6:57
SPEAKER_02: And it's like we just found our way to each other and we've kind of never lost connection.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: I feel like it's like a soul contract, like somehow in the ethers before we came here, I'm like, I'm gonna find you down there.
7:10
SPEAKER_00: And it was just like instant, like, oh my gosh, Kate, where have you been my whole life?
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And I felt the same way.
7:15
SPEAKER_02: And there's many things that are so different about us, you know, uh, I our age, our location of where we live, our backgrounds, our uh how we function in the world as far as keeping our life, you know, our our you know, just as sort of a funny story, which I'm gonna tell is that, you know, I'm always like, I need to know exactly what's happening in my life far enough in advance that I can plan.
7:42
SPEAKER_02: And Susie's like take a time that we're gonna talk and send me the thing.
7:47
SPEAKER_02: I can't.
7:49
SPEAKER_02: Um, but one thing that we share deep, several things we share deeply in common, Susie.
7:55
SPEAKER_02: One is that I think we both love life.
7:57
SPEAKER_02: And I think that we both know that life holds us kindly and well when we hold life kindly and well.
8:09
SPEAKER_02: When we go about the world from a place of love and connection, we get back what we put out.
8:15
SPEAKER_02: We both function that way.
8:17
SPEAKER_02: Um, we both adore our children and being mothers.
8:21
SPEAKER_02: Yes, and we both adore our work and being professionals.
8:27
SPEAKER_02: And we're both really committed to finding our heart and following our intuition to find our own answers.
8:32
SPEAKER_02: And so today, you and I are gonna talk about your journey around that because dang a rama, you have a we've been on a journey, journeys, journeys, and so just for our listeners, you and I are gonna, we're just gonna riff, we're gonna come in and out of making sense, and we're gonna like fumble and we're gonna laugh and cry and do all that crap.
8:52
SPEAKER_02: But really, what we're talking about today is what it means to break the mold, to untether from the shoulds, and to find your own way.
9:04
SPEAKER_02: Even if the world outside of you, the people in your life, the environment, the structure of communities or cultures or whatever are telling you something different.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: So oh, I'm how that sounds uh that sounds amazing.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: I just actually had a big untethering moment and I just want to celebrate it in real time.
9:23
SPEAKER_00: Do it, do it, do it.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: A couple weeks ago, I was just in it.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: I was in this like death spiral of everything's going horrible.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: It was the middle of summer, my kids were like spread everywhere, cousin's house, we're flying back and forth to all-star baseball.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: My life was in complete chaos.
9:37
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what am I even doing?
9:39
SPEAKER_00: Who even am I?
9:40
SPEAKER_00: I want to quit.
9:41
SPEAKER_00: I felt horrible, like cry in the bathtub.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: I am not okay.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: Horrible.
9:47
SPEAKER_00: And I get on the phone with my coach and we do all of our things.
9:51
SPEAKER_00: And uh I felt slowly, like it actually wasn't slowly.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: It was like all of a sudden, you know, like before the Hubble, the Hubble Space Telescope, before we had that, we couldn't see like what was outside of the Earth's atmosphere.
10:05
SPEAKER_00: But then we had that and we could we we could suddenly see all that was there.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: I went to this dark, scary, spiraly space.
10:13
SPEAKER_00: And it feels like when like a rocket has to build up enough like inertia and energy to like blast through to like the other world we can see.
10:21
SPEAKER_00: This was my moment of like pain and dark night of the soul vibes.
10:26
SPEAKER_00: And then it was like a breakthrough.
10:28
SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, even in just two weeks, I'm like, what?
10:31
SPEAKER_00: There's more up here.
10:33
SPEAKER_00: Like I can see clearer.
10:35
SPEAKER_00: I am okay.
10:36
SPEAKER_00: There's all these new possibilities that didn't exist two weeks ago.
10:40
SPEAKER_00: And it's like I had to go through this major ick, horrible moment, but like it's all good.
10:46
SPEAKER_00: It's all good.
10:47
SPEAKER_02: Wait, Susie.
10:48
SPEAKER_02: Okay, first of all, when I hear you use words like I feel, yes, I want to just like have a fireworks party.
10:56
SPEAKER_02: Of course, of course, you your energy that you put out in the world, both personally and professionally, is buoyant, right?
11:05
SPEAKER_02: It's joyful, it's happy, it's excited, it's hopeful, it's buoyant.
11:10
SPEAKER_02: And you, like so many of us out there, I'm gonna out you.
11:15
SPEAKER_02: So this is okay.
11:17
SPEAKER_02: If it's not okay, then we'll do something about it.
11:19
SPEAKER_02: But you, like many people, were not necessarily raised to believe that it was okay to feel all the other stuff and that all the other stuff is there to guide us.
11:28
SPEAKER_02: And and you're just giving this beautiful example of what it's like to be willing to feel the crap in order to break through to the other more desirable feelings.
11:38
SPEAKER_02: But what shifted it for you?
11:40
SPEAKER_00: Oh my gosh, that tolerance to hold the crap has been like a 37-year work in progress, as you know, because before it was like, I'm feeling these negative emotions.
11:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling these like really yuck thoughts about myself, like get out, get out, get out, be happy, be joyful, be okay, be pretty, be smart, go have fun.
11:59
SPEAKER_00: And that doesn't get you super far in healing yourself and things ever like reaching the next level.
12:05
SPEAKER_00: And so building up that tolerance for the discomfort, yes, is is is a thing that business and motherhood have together combined taught me the most.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: That like growth is your ability to hold in your body that amount of discomfort.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: So eventually you will push through and you will be the rocket breaking to the next orbit.
12:26
SPEAKER_00: But that does not happen.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: Like that off to the next orbit.
12:30
SPEAKER_00: I do not believe that happens without that discomfort.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: 100%.
12:34
SPEAKER_02: So will you just give a more personal overview of who you are and in what ways you have chosen to lean into discomfort and sit with the discomfort in order to create a Susie Holman that feels most authentic to you?
12:55
SPEAKER_02: And I don't know where you're gonna take that.
12:57
SPEAKER_02: It's a big question, but I would love our listeners to learn more and hear more about you with respect to that.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: So my whole journey, at least like my public journey, started in one brave motion of authenticity and vulnerability.
13:12
SPEAKER_00: I was an influencer back in the day when everything was like all white and very curated and look really cool and like minimalistic.
13:20
SPEAKER_00: And I had three two kids and I was trying to be this put-together version of myself online that people were responding to.
13:29
SPEAKER_00: And I suddenly could not do it anymore.
13:32
SPEAKER_00: I was like, what it this fake version of me, I cannot be actually.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: What really happened was I went to Target and I left my three kids in the car and I ran into Target and made a seven-second Instagram story that changed my whole life that said, this is worth the risk of arrest.
13:47
SPEAKER_00: I am not bringing three kids into the car for diapers.
13:49
SPEAKER_00: This will take me literally 90 seconds, which it did.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: Um, I get back, my whole life blows up.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: Everyone's like, We're calling your sponsors.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: We reported you to CPS, you're a neglectful mother, you're an unfit human being, like you are the worst person in the world.
14:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, why on earth am I doing this?
14:07
SPEAKER_00: So that I can be paid$30 from Hello Fresh occasionally.
14:11
SPEAKER_00: This is the dumbest.
14:12
SPEAKER_02: Hold on, I have a question about this.
14:14
SPEAKER_02: So, so what you're describing, this like I'm gonna leave my kids in the car for 90 seconds, seven minutes, whatever it is.
14:22
SPEAKER_00: Not seven minutes.
14:23
SPEAKER_00: It was not seven minutes.
14:24
SPEAKER_00: I could do that in at least two.
14:26
SPEAKER_02: Okay, two minutes, right?
14:27
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna run in and run back.
14:28
SPEAKER_02: Like this thing that you did is something that a gazillion million women do all over.
14:36
SPEAKER_02: It's also something that a lot of moms want to do, but won't do it because they quote unquote shouldn't do it.
14:45
SPEAKER_02: Right.
14:46
SPEAKER_02: And you're you are, you know, you did it then, you're doing now, you're outing yourself as being a mom who's just trying to figure it all out and figure out how to do it all at one time with you know kids sleeping in the car.
14:58
SPEAKER_02: And I said my, I do it again.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
15:00
SPEAKER_02: So here's my question: when you came back and you are already a public figure, you're an influencer, you're selling the good life, is what you're doing.
15:08
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, totally.
15:09
SPEAKER_02: You're sort of selling the perfect life.
15:11
SPEAKER_02: And to your point, the word selling is important because what I hear you saying is on one on the image from outside, you looked like totally.
15:21
SPEAKER_02: I had it all together, and on the inside, you're a mom of three kids.
15:25
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
15:26
SPEAKER_02: And a newborn, like newborn, newborn, and you're like any other mom with a newborn, you're just barely figuring it out, holding it together.
15:33
SPEAKER_02: So you came back and you had all this judgment and all this criticism.
15:36
SPEAKER_02: How did you feel?
15:37
SPEAKER_00: Horrible.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: I was, I I was like, I I can remember it so clearly being back in my bed, like with my newborn, with my postpartum body, with there was my kids were I had three kids under the age of six.
15:49
SPEAKER_00: So that was a lot.
15:51
SPEAKER_00: And um, I remember pulling up my Instagram.
15:54
SPEAKER_00: I'd put the kids down and I pulled up my Instagram and I was like, what?
15:58
SPEAKER_00: What is this?
15:59
SPEAKER_00: And there's all these comments, like hundreds, Kate.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And I can still feel that panic in my nervous system, my body of like, oh my gosh, I think I'm dying.
16:08
SPEAKER_00: I'm uh I feel so ashamed.
16:12
SPEAKER_00: I feel so ashamed.
16:13
SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, I grew up as in Idaho.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: I'm like a country girl at heart.
16:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, listen, my mom would leave us in the car for hours.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I like had a moment of shame, panic, spiral.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, delete, delete, delete.
16:25
SPEAKER_00: And then I'm like, I'm not gonna delete.
16:27
SPEAKER_00: I actually stand by this.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: I made sure to Google, is this legal to do in Colorado?
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Which it is.
16:31
SPEAKER_00: So it's like, I actually haven't done, I haven't actually broken a law.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stand on that, like that is who I am, and that is okay, and that doesn't need to be you.
16:41
SPEAKER_00: But I'm also in that moment was like, I'm done doing this.
16:45
SPEAKER_00: I am done being this version.
16:47
SPEAKER_02: That's right.
16:48
SPEAKER_02: And so, Susie, what you're talking about is a shift from looking at other people to tell you whether or not you're a good fill in the blank in this situation, mom.
17:01
SPEAKER_02: And then to go inside and say, was this the right decision for me and my kids in everybody's best interest?
17:10
SPEAKER_02: And the answer was yes, you decided to do it again.
17:12
SPEAKER_00: So that's a good, I also had that good anchor of do I think my mom is a good mom?
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
17:18
SPEAKER_00: Did she leave me in the car for absurd amounts of times?
17:20
SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Million ways to be a good one, right?
17:24
SPEAKER_02: So, so you're trusting yourself instead of looking to trust everybody else outside of you.
17:30
SPEAKER_02: And of course, this is this was the big breaking point for you in your shining moment, but let's not act like this is the one moment.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: So I have a go on, tell us more.
17:39
SPEAKER_00: Don't delete the post.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yay, here I am.
17:41
SPEAKER_00: I'm no longer playing this game.
17:43
SPEAKER_00: Here's what I'm gonna do.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go private for the next 30 days, and I'm gonna actually show you the shit show that is my life.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: And it was like literally 90,000 followers dumped in in three days, and it was like, oh shit, here we go.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: Here we go.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Take deep breaths.
18:00
SPEAKER_00: Like, I gotta do what I said.
18:02
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be me.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful for that experiment.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: And the tribe that I've been doing life with since that day is still with me.
18:10
SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: They've been through through all the evolutions of all of it.
18:17
SPEAKER_00: So who are you?
18:21
SPEAKER_00: Um, who I am this hour is maybe different than who I'm gonna be the next hour and the next hour, and that is something I'm grateful for by community of being along the road because while there was that shining moment of like, I don't need your approval, I've also had very many moments since that day, like four years ago, five years ago, of like, please give me your approval.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: I desperately need your approval.
18:44
SPEAKER_00: I'm living for your approval.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: I am starving for your approval.
18:48
SPEAKER_00: The next significant part of my story is when I um decided to, I could no longer stay in the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints, the Mormon Church, um, which is a massive departure from who I had been.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: Massive, who I'd been my whole life, who I made a huge part of my identity online and offline.
19:06
SPEAKER_00: But like that was it.
19:08
SPEAKER_00: You are the church.
19:09
SPEAKER_00: And uh that's when things got really wild.
19:12
SPEAKER_00: I lost approval.
19:13
SPEAKER_00: I lost 80% of my clientele overnight.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: No longer had approval, but like gone.
19:19
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh okay.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: What led you to make that decision, Susie?
19:24
SPEAKER_00: Um, I just it did not align with uh what I felt in my soul.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: Which was what what did you feel in your soul?
19:34
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's so many things.
19:36
SPEAKER_00: There's like so so much when you grow up in a religion like that.
19:40
SPEAKER_00: But it to me felt um like there's so much any rules of what you should do to get God's favor.
19:49
SPEAKER_00: And if you do this and do this and do this, then you get to go to the celestial kingdom with your family.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: If you do not, you do not get to be with your family forever.
19:58
SPEAKER_00: And like, I don't know if I'm I believe that I'm gonna be separated from my family forever if I drink coffee.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: I I can't get down with that.
20:07
SPEAKER_00: Um, that was a really hard exploration into what I really believed.
20:12
SPEAKER_00: I saw this meme yesterday that was like, most people think like people leave the church because they want to sin, but it's like I I left the church because my soul could not stay there.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: I left the church crying, sobbing, not really wanting to leave, but knowing I had to.
20:29
SPEAKER_00: Knowing that in leaving and leaving publicly, I was burning my life to the ground.
20:36
SPEAKER_00: And it did.
20:37
SPEAKER_00: Actually, that's what happened.
20:40
SPEAKER_02: I just in personal offline conversations have talked so much, Susie, about how anytime we're gonna take some kind of a leap towards something that we know is good for us, we're gonna lose something.
20:58
SPEAKER_02: We have to let go of something in order to get to be somewhere else, in order to find something else.
21:05
SPEAKER_02: And leaving any community, let alone one that's generational and really infiltrated in everything you know, is grief.
21:19
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's traumatic.
21:21
SPEAKER_00: It was grief, it was trauma, it was lonely, it was dark, it was confusing, it was and in some ways still continues to be that, of course.
21:31
SPEAKER_02: So I mean, we could go in so many different directions, but I I guess I want to like pause here with you for a minute because it sounds like that, you know, along with this thing that happened with your Instagram feed and that in some ways that sort of surface, right?
21:48
SPEAKER_02: I mean, we're we're talking about something similar, which is shoulds and shouldn't.
21:53
SPEAKER_02: How am I supposed to move through the world and what happens when I disappoint people who have been Been on my side for so long when I do something that I'm not supposed to do, quote unquote, right?
22:05
SPEAKER_02: From a big picture.
22:06
SPEAKER_02: We see that happen in this Instagram thing.
22:09
SPEAKER_02: And now we're seeing this happen when you make this decision to unhook from a uh not just a religion, but a community, a culture, a way of being in the world.
22:23
SPEAKER_02: That is lonely.
22:25
SPEAKER_02: It is no doubt you second guessed yourself.
22:29
SPEAKER_02: No doubt you cried and screamed.
22:32
SPEAKER_02: And meanwhile, you're you're you're also trying to create a life for yourself.
22:37
SPEAKER_02: How did you stay steady with that?
22:39
SPEAKER_02: That's a ton of discomfort, Susie Schein.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: That was a ton of discomfort.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: And I felt like for the first time in my life, like I had to, I couldn't go to other people for their approval to make me feel safe.
22:57
SPEAKER_00: At the time when I left the church, I didn't necessarily even have my husband all the way with me.
23:02
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have that full approval.
23:04
SPEAKER_00: I didn't have my online community's approval.
23:07
SPEAKER_00: They were livid.
23:09
SPEAKER_00: They were betrayed.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: They were hurt.
23:11
SPEAKER_00: They were grossed out.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: Didn't have my parents, didn't have my family.
23:14
SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I have to dig as deep as I possibly can to find safety within myself.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: And this is when I started meditating.
23:22
SPEAKER_00: This is when I shifted.
23:24
SPEAKER_00: This is when I just really went deeply inside.
23:27
SPEAKER_00: And I got a lot of help.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: Therapy coaches had to find it within myself.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
23:31
SPEAKER_02: So, you know, as Glenn and Doyle has beautifully talked about in her books, you decided to be willing to disappoint other people in order to no longer disappoint yourself.
23:41
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
23:42
SPEAKER_00: I I love that so much.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: I I really came to the point in my life where I knew that in seeking and having others' approval meant I had to abandon myself.
23:54
SPEAKER_00: And I was done.
23:55
SPEAKER_00: And I I couldn't keep abandoning myself.
23:59
SPEAKER_00: But then I cut myself off from everyone's approval.
24:02
SPEAKER_00: And that was the point it was like, okay, you're not going to abandon me, but now you have to take care of me.
24:08
SPEAKER_00: Like little me, wise woman inside of me, 37-year-old version of me, mother of four of me.
24:13
SPEAKER_00: You have to take care of me.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: Which it was a whole other journey that opened.
24:20
SPEAKER_02: Um, Susie Shine, by the way, I call you Susie Shine for the weirdest reason, which is that this masterm we were in was called Shine, and you're always shiny.
24:30
SPEAKER_02: So I don't know.
24:31
SPEAKER_02: I just I just uh you're in my phone as Susie Shine.
24:34
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just gonna shine Susie Shine.
24:37
SPEAKER_02: Um, the other thing I've noticed about you in this journey is that you have there have been different stages, right?
24:44
SPEAKER_02: As you and I have become close over the last few years, I've seen you go deeper in this uh what's even the word, this this authenticity, this becoming true to yourself, right?
24:58
SPEAKER_02: I've seen you do it over and over.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: And every time I see you do it, you are very gracious about providing the public community with a real look at what that's like for you, you know, the tears, the uncertainty, the feeling lost.
25:13
SPEAKER_02: And you always seem to both ride that wave of pain and stay in your conviction.
25:27
SPEAKER_02: So both and thank you.
25:30
SPEAKER_00: It is brave work, but I feel like it's the work of my lifetime.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, there's no point in hiding all of that away.
25:39
SPEAKER_00: That doesn't help me.
25:41
SPEAKER_00: It helps me circle in my own shame to hide away, and it doesn't help people who might need to witness that it's okay and that, oh my gosh, I'm going through that too.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: I feel like I've been called to that sharing, even though it is so uncomfortable.
25:56
SPEAKER_00: But I feel like called to it.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So I literally can't not.
25:59
SPEAKER_00: It just comes through.
26:01
SPEAKER_02: How much have you shared with your children about this journey?
26:04
SPEAKER_02: So you have uh your little little just started kindergarten, which has been really, I have to say, I you like brought me right back in that class post.
26:12
SPEAKER_02: How much of this journey have you shared with your kids?
26:14
SPEAKER_02: What does it look like to be going through this?
26:17
SPEAKER_02: My kids are cocoon while raising four kids.
26:21
SPEAKER_00: My kids are the catalyst.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: My kids are so freaking cool.
26:24
SPEAKER_00: My kids, so we left.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: I left the church and then immediately was like, I feel unsafe and I need another structure.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: Like, I need a structure.
26:32
SPEAKER_00: So it was like, I need another structure.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: So let's go find another church.
26:36
SPEAKER_00: We must have gone to, I don't know, 13 churches dragging my kids Sunday after Sunday.
26:42
SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not it.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: That's not it.
26:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, that was hilarious, and that was figuring it out with them.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't want to impose my beliefs necessarily on, I want to pose like great things, but I I can't tell them things that I haven't figured out for myself yet.
26:57
SPEAKER_00: So they've been in it with me and been really resilient through it and laugh through it.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: And it's they've been right there by my side.
27:06
SPEAKER_02: You know what I find really interesting, Susie, is sometimes when people find themselves letting go of something like a religion or a community or or something that's been so consuming, they pendulum and they're like, I'm done with God.
27:24
SPEAKER_02: I'm done with religion.
27:26
SPEAKER_02: And what you're describing is also a true integrity in knowing that God, religion, spirituality, you still wanted that to play a role in your life.
27:40
SPEAKER_00: Can you talk to us about that?
27:42
SPEAKER_00: Well, yes, in my life, but I heard the most profound thing.
27:45
SPEAKER_00: I was talking to a shaman actually, and I was like, I feel so bad for my kids.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: Like I grew up with a great structure and like it was great.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: Like it they're it was great.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And I feel bad that I'm not gonna have this for my kids.
27:59
SPEAKER_00: Like, how are they gonna get to know God if they're not doing it in this very structured Mormon way?
28:04
SPEAKER_00: And he said, kids come with this light directly to source.
28:08
SPEAKER_00: They just come with it.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: But what we often do as parents is we step in the way of the light, and then we start to point our fingers like, look over there, look over there, look over there.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: And we block the light.
28:20
SPEAKER_00: And if we just actually get out of it, our kids are so hooked into it that they're gonna lead the way to their own light and their own connection to source.
28:29
SPEAKER_00: And that was the moment I was like, okay, I can do that.
28:32
SPEAKER_00: I can get out of the way, I can listen to them.
28:35
SPEAKER_02: You're you're in so many ways talking about what is required, in my opinion, for good mothering, which is to not project our stuff and get in our kids' way of being who they are meant to be.
28:51
SPEAKER_02: And it's really freaking hard.
28:54
SPEAKER_02: You know, uh a statement that I love to use all the time is what would it be like to choose connection over control?
29:01
SPEAKER_02: Connection over control.
29:02
SPEAKER_02: Write that down.
29:04
SPEAKER_02: And so many of us have these shoulds.
29:07
SPEAKER_02: And of course, our whole conversation today is like, what happens if we break out of the shoulds?
29:11
SPEAKER_02: But so many of us have these shoulds about how we should parent our children, how we should go about our life, how we, what our kids should and shouldn't do.
29:20
SPEAKER_02: And really, you're cracking in to this beautiful, scary question, which is, well, what if by stepping out of our kids' way, you know, being close enough that we're there for them in all the ways they actually need us, but stepping out of their way enough for them to find their own answers, which requires immense trust.
29:46
SPEAKER_02: And I'm just gonna say it because it's so obvious to me, but I think it can get lost, is the only way, Susie Schein, that you are able to trust your children is because you've learned to trust yourself.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: That's so that's beautiful.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: Um, I think one of the biggest things in me was putting that trust outside of myself, putting the trust in the religion.
30:11
SPEAKER_00: More recently, putting the trust, outsourcing my trust into other people or my online community.
30:18
SPEAKER_00: Um, fostering that trust within my children has been like little things.
30:25
SPEAKER_00: Like, I trust you to go over to this kid's house that I'm not super comfortable with, and you're gonna tell me what's what it's like and what goes down, and you're gonna call me, right?
30:36
SPEAKER_00: Like this, this, this is not an easy journey of trusting your children.
30:41
SPEAKER_00: That's for sure.
30:42
SPEAKER_02: Well, because there's so much uncertainty and unpredictability.
30:45
SPEAKER_02: And by the way, that's what structured religion does is it tries to make certain what's actually uncertain, right?
30:52
SPEAKER_02: And and we we crave that, and sometimes we find that in very strict religious communities because it's easier to have a set of rules.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I I the most fascinating thing happened with my Tesla.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: So you Tesla, like you it gave everybody the free driving option where it's like full auto self-driving, and I plug it in, self-driving, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is amazing.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: I am shocked at how quickly I was like, the Tesla's a such a better driver than me.
31:21
SPEAKER_00: Why am I driving?
31:22
SPEAKER_00: The Tesla is such a better driver.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: This is more safe than me being in the driver's seat.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: And I suddenly realize how we get programmed so easily because, in so many ways, it is easier to just do this, what you say, do what, do what you should, do what you're told instead of having to make the movements yourself.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: I was shocked at how quickly I fell into that.
31:44
SPEAKER_02: Susie, you and I did a talk, an interview for a platform.
31:49
SPEAKER_02: You and I want to talk about your work in just a moment.
31:51
SPEAKER_02: We're gonna shift, but for a platform you were doing, we talked about guilt.
31:54
SPEAKER_02: And what we were talking about is how guilt really shows up for us when we have some perception of having broken a rule.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes the rule is our own rule that's within our own integrity, and sometimes the rule is someone else's rule.
32:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I hate other people's rules so much.
32:15
SPEAKER_00: It makes me feel like I want to die.
32:17
SPEAKER_00: I hate I hate rules.
32:19
SPEAKER_00: Well, why?
32:20
SPEAKER_02: Tell me, tell me more.
32:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think because uh growing up, how I did there's so many rules, and I've always wanted to break them.
32:28
SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to know what coffee tastes like.
32:30
SPEAKER_00: I just really wanted to know, but I couldn't break that rule because that means I can't have my family forever and just ridiculous stuff.
32:36
SPEAKER_00: Um, I've never been one that felt like safe within the rules.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: I've always been the person that's like, let me out of this cage, but scared to break them.
32:46
SPEAKER_02: That's interesting.
32:47
SPEAKER_02: You didn't feel safe in them, but you also didn't feel safe breaking them.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't leave you with much safety sense of safety.
32:54
SPEAKER_02: Nope.
32:55
SPEAKER_02: No, no.
32:58
SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, yeah.
33:00
SPEAKER_02: So I'm just imagining that the amount of guilt that you have felt along the way.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: Extreme, extreme levels of guilt.
33:12
SPEAKER_00: But you know what I don't feel anymore.
33:15
SPEAKER_00: Before it was religious guilt, it was a whole lot of mom guilt.
33:19
SPEAKER_00: Um, which of course ties into religious guilt because I feel like every single thing in my life somehow ties into religion.
33:24
SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I uh my big story with guilt was in my religion, it was like women should not work.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: They should not, they should be stay-at-home mothers.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: Your place is in the home only.
33:35
SPEAKER_00: And I had this big burning thing in me that was like, I want to start a business.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: But every time I did, it would start to be successful.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: I would bump up against that, like, but you should just enjoy being at home.
33:47
SPEAKER_00: So I'd feel the bump of that cage.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: I'd feel that rule and I'd want to break it.
33:52
SPEAKER_00: But then I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't.
33:54
SPEAKER_00: Want to break it, finally breaking through that rule of like, that's that rule's not for me.
34:00
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna see what's on the other side.
34:03
SPEAKER_00: That the amount of guilt there is was a lot.
34:06
SPEAKER_00: And then the guilt of, am I being a good enough mom?
34:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm doing this thing I shouldn't do, which is have a business.
34:12
SPEAKER_00: And it's just this shitstorm of guilt, like coming from every angle at all times.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
34:17
SPEAKER_02: And I'm certain that even our listeners, many of our listeners don't have the same religious background or perception of religion, but feel that same sense of guilt and have the same kind of recording in their brain.
34:36
SPEAKER_00: What do you think is an amazing thing?
34:38
SPEAKER_00: Katie Blommer, she's an amazing woman, she's in corporate America, like huge up, like a VP of something.
34:42
SPEAKER_00: And she was like, women, men go to work and they move closer to their perceived value of like being workers.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: And women, when they go to work, they will they separate themselves further from their perceived value.
35:00
SPEAKER_00: And that is a thing that every working woman has to reconcile because society is not showing us that or has not done a great job in the past.
35:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and in many ways, it can show us on the surface that women can do both, but underneath the surface are structures and judgments that say something very different.
35:23
SPEAKER_02: So one of the things that I believe to be so true, my guess is that you would agree, is that women are the answer to healing this planet.
35:32
SPEAKER_02: I really believe that.
35:34
SPEAKER_02: Not that men are bad or wrong, but that women bring something to the table of leadership that has been missing.
35:41
SPEAKER_02: And I also know that women, not that dads aren't also important, but mothers have a very important part to raise, to play in raising healthy kids.
35:54
SPEAKER_02: So there is this quote-unquote dilemma, isn't there?
35:58
SPEAKER_02: Which is okay, how do we as women both share our voice, our story, our leadership, our ideas, our wisdom, our skills with the world because the world needs us and show up in ways that our kids need us to show up.
36:18
SPEAKER_02: And I have quotes around show up because it's not the way most people think it is, but show up for our kids so that our kids trust their relationships with us as their mothers.
36:30
SPEAKER_02: It is a dilemma.
36:32
SPEAKER_02: And I have lots of thoughts about it, but I'm curious to know what your thoughts are about this because I want you to talk with our listeners a little bit about what your professional journey has looked like because you've done a, excuse me, shit ton professionally.
36:45
SPEAKER_02: So, what do you do with that concept and that dilemma?
36:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think that dilemma, like even just this conversation is so juicy because it's shedding light on this is the dilemma that every mother faces.
36:54
SPEAKER_00: Every mother has to deal with what does this feel like in her body?
36:58
SPEAKER_00: What is she going to make?
37:00
SPEAKER_00: What choice is she going to make on a case-by-case basis?
37:04
SPEAKER_00: Segwaying into my professional life, there's been seasons where it's like, actually, I've chosen in this season, in this specific launch.
37:12
SPEAKER_00: Like my business, my voice is like, this is where we're riding hard for.
37:16
SPEAKER_00: And then there's seasons like the one I'm in right now.
37:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm writing so hard for my 12-year-old teenage daughter.
37:21
SPEAKER_00: We're like making TikTok dances, we're hanging out all the time.
37:24
SPEAKER_00: And this is the season where she is like, this is where the deepest need of energy is.
37:29
SPEAKER_00: And like, not that isn't always in one spot for me.
37:34
SPEAKER_00: And it's like case by case, day by day, hour by hour uh thing to navigate.
37:40
SPEAKER_00: And I think the world telling us it is black and white, it's not.
37:43
SPEAKER_00: No, our is the same.
37:46
SPEAKER_02: It's not black and white, it's also not rigid.
37:48
SPEAKER_02: So I know one thing that you and I have talked about, and you've had you've felt frustrated about yourself with respect to this, is that you tend to be someone who jumps around a little bit, right?
37:57
SPEAKER_02: You you pour everything you have into this, and you're like, this doesn't feel right anymore.
38:01
SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna do something different.
38:02
SPEAKER_02: And you pour everything into this.
38:04
SPEAKER_02: And while that is amazing because it allows you to create multiple big businesses that have been that have been very successful, it also can make you feel a little jumbled in your brain.
38:18
SPEAKER_02: Like, wait a second, why can't I quote why quote unquote can't I be more consistent?
38:22
SPEAKER_02: But really, what I love is your model of fluidity, your model of being willing.
38:29
SPEAKER_02: Again, we're talking about getting out of the shoulds to to not live in the box of what is expected when you are a professional and to be willing to listen to your internal compass.
38:42
SPEAKER_00: Oh, I did this thing, Kate.
38:44
SPEAKER_00: I did this thing where I had such wild success.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: I became an influencer, I co-founded a uh menstrual patch company called Jovi with my best friend.
38:52
SPEAKER_00: Let's make millions and millions and millions of dollars.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't keep all those dollars.
38:56
SPEAKER_00: We invested back into the company's name, so I'm not like crazy loaded if that's what that sounds like.
39:00
SPEAKER_00: But I um I've had really quick success really fast.
39:05
SPEAKER_00: And what I did is like, oh my gosh, I should learn business.
39:08
SPEAKER_00: I should learn what I'm really doing here.
39:10
SPEAKER_00: So I dump a hundred thousand dollars into going to learn business, taking all these programs, mentorship, coaching, courses to learn the rules.
39:20
SPEAKER_00: Then I'm like, the rules are it.
39:22
SPEAKER_00: This is how you keep going.
39:23
SPEAKER_00: This is how you keep making the massive amounts of money that I was making is I learned the rules and then I repeat the rules.
39:29
SPEAKER_00: To learn the rules, repeat the rules that people say I should do, the experts to see my business slide drastically backwards.
39:37
SPEAKER_00: No one wants the effing rules.
39:40
SPEAKER_00: No one wants to watch you live the life of rules.
39:42
SPEAKER_00: No one wants to hear about the rules.
39:44
SPEAKER_00: No one wants the rules.
39:45
SPEAKER_00: They want the you, they want the energy, they want that part of you.
39:50
SPEAKER_00: No one wants the rules.
39:51
SPEAKER_00: The shoulds, the shoulds have been the death sentence on my business.
39:56
SPEAKER_00: And I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a should be a death sentence on relationships with my kids.
40:01
SPEAKER_00: No, thank you.
40:02
SPEAKER_00: Not interested.
40:07
SPEAKER_02: So good.
40:08
SPEAKER_02: It's so good.
40:10
SPEAKER_02: So what has your determination to move in the other direction of the shoulds provided you with?
40:21
SPEAKER_00: Oh, peace.
40:23
SPEAKER_00: The shoulds feel like I'm trapped to me.
40:26
SPEAKER_00: The shoulds feel like that place that we were talking about in the church, where it's like, I want to break that rule, but simultaneously can't get myself to break that rule.
40:34
SPEAKER_00: That space in between those things feels like torture to me.
40:38
SPEAKER_00: It's limiting, isn't it?
40:40
SPEAKER_00: It's very limiting.
40:41
SPEAKER_00: But the thing that feels like peace is just like setting all the shoulds down, the rules that I don't prescribe to down, and just doing what I feel called in my heart that I trust myself to do, that feels like peace.
40:58
SPEAKER_00: And that feels like the biggest win in the world.
41:00
SPEAKER_02: What do you say to a listener who is in a career that she loves?
41:08
SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's not, maybe it's even a full-time job that she just has to engage in for, you know, financial reasons or whatever.
41:14
SPEAKER_02: But she's in a she's in a you know a full-time job.
41:19
SPEAKER_02: And she can't be creative and break the shoulds because one of the things that you have been committed to doing, I have actually committed to the same thing, is creating a career for yourself, a professional journey for yourself that gives you freedom.
41:35
SPEAKER_02: You don't work for anyone, you make your own rules.
41:37
SPEAKER_02: So do I.
41:39
SPEAKER_02: I mean, I'll tell you right now, I've never since becoming an adult and a professional worked for anyone else, and I never will.
41:46
SPEAKER_02: And I guess I'm just wondering, what do you say to the listener who's like, must be nice, Susie and Kate, to be able to create your own rules and make, you know, decide on what you should and shouldn't do based on what feels right to you.
42:02
SPEAKER_02: What do you say to that person who feels trapped in the shoulds and feels like there's no way out?
42:08
SPEAKER_00: I always like to play a game of like a little portal.
42:12
SPEAKER_00: You literally like poke little portals, like little holes in your world to say, like, what else could this actually look like?
42:19
SPEAKER_00: My husband and I just did this.
42:21
SPEAKER_00: We're like poked the hole in our world that we're like, what would it look like if we actually only made$60,000?
42:28
SPEAKER_00: Which we never made that.
42:30
SPEAKER_00: What would we do?
42:31
SPEAKER_00: What would it look like?
42:32
SPEAKER_00: We like we're like, oh, we'd peel away this, with this, this, we'd move here.
42:36
SPEAKER_00: Like playing little games with like, you think you can't because you can only see what you're looking at in front of your face.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: But when you allow yourself to get creative and see what else might be available for you, then there probably is something else available for you to you.
42:51
SPEAKER_00: But like if you keep focusing on the prison cells and you keep just focusing on I can't because of this, then you're gonna get more of that.
42:57
SPEAKER_00: But it actually, if you let yourself allow, play in a little bit of creativity of how else it could be different, there might be answers there.
43:06
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we have these worldviews, don't we, of ourselves and the world around us and their maps, right?
43:12
SPEAKER_02: What we can see from where we are standing.
43:17
SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's all kinds of language in the coaching world about limiting beliefs and zones of genius and zones of excellence, and I mean all these things.
43:26
SPEAKER_02: And really what we're all talking about here, whether it's from a more clinical mental health place or a coaching, you know, empowering place, is to say your life can be whatever you want it to be.
43:37
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
43:38
SPEAKER_02: It's the shoulds and the shouldn'ts from where you're standing in this moment that keeps you stuck.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
43:48
SPEAKER_00: You're choosing your shoulds, and that's painful.
43:51
SPEAKER_00: That's a painful truth about that.
43:54
SPEAKER_00: Choosing the shoulds again and again and again that just keeps you in the cage.
43:58
SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
44:00
SPEAKER_00: Your children say about you.
44:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm a nut job.
44:09
SPEAKER_00: Um I think I I think it depends on the child and depends on the time.
44:15
SPEAKER_00: But I think they say I'm fun and that I say I love them.
44:20
SPEAKER_00: And I think they we laugh together a lot.
44:24
SPEAKER_00: Um modeling to my kids to be silly is really important to me.
44:29
SPEAKER_00: To like not be afraid to look really dumb.
44:32
SPEAKER_00: Look dumb.
44:34
SPEAKER_00: Look dumb.
44:35
SPEAKER_00: If you can raise a kid that is not afraid to look dumb and is not afraid to try things, you're gonna raise a successful kid.
44:41
SPEAKER_00: So I try to model that.
44:43
SPEAKER_02: Well, that's part of it, right?
44:44
SPEAKER_02: We can say that to our kids, but if we're not willing to do that ourselves, it's not gonna come across.
44:48
SPEAKER_02: And it's one of the things I love about you.
44:50
SPEAKER_02: You are so fun.
44:51
SPEAKER_02: You are so I feel like I'm having fun with you right now and I'm sitting staring at it, screaming.
44:57
SPEAKER_02: So that's amazing.
45:00
SPEAKER_02: Um, I was on a call with someone yesterday, and she's a working mom, high-powered, uh, more corporate career, but working mom.
45:10
SPEAKER_02: And she told me that her child daughter, who's I think 10 or 11, said to her the other day, Why do you love your work more than you love me?
45:22
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
45:24
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is a feeling many children will have when they have working moms.
45:32
SPEAKER_02: And I think this is a fear many mothers have that their children will feel.
45:38
SPEAKER_02: So my question for you is A, what would you say if a child said that to you?
45:46
SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
45:46
SPEAKER_02: First question, has anyone ever said that to you?
45:48
SPEAKER_02: Secondly, have you ever worried about that?
45:50
SPEAKER_02: If one of your kids said that to you, what would you say?
45:55
SPEAKER_00: That's a tough one.
45:56
SPEAKER_00: That's a gut hurt punch.
45:58
SPEAKER_00: Like that brings up a lot.
46:00
SPEAKER_00: Even just hearing that story brings up a lot of like pain.
46:04
SPEAKER_00: Um the truth of what I would say the human in me would be devastated that that would ever come out of the mouth of child.
46:16
SPEAKER_00: And then I'd have to go deal with my own crap around that because that's a lot.
46:19
SPEAKER_00: And then I would pull a Kate Kripke and I would say, Let's get curious.
46:24
SPEAKER_00: And I would ask my child to explain more.
46:29
SPEAKER_02: It's so interesting to me because I had a full-time working mom.
46:34
SPEAKER_02: She worked a ton.
46:35
SPEAKER_02: I remember feeling this way.
46:38
SPEAKER_02: And I think when we already worry about whether or not we're being good moms, and I have never met a mother that doesn't worry at times about whether or not she's being a good mother, right?
46:50
SPEAKER_02: When we 100%.
46:52
SPEAKER_02: And we are also engaging in something outside of motherhood.
46:55
SPEAKER_02: Many of us, there are many of us who whose heart is drawn to be home with their kids, to not work, to even if they have studied and built these careers, they they are ready and wanting to be home with their kids.
47:08
SPEAKER_02: Many of us, myself included, would not be a good stay-at-home mom, quite frankly.
47:13
SPEAKER_02: It feels too hard for me.
47:15
SPEAKER_02: It's a skill set I don't have, right?
47:18
SPEAKER_02: And there is that fear that our children are going to feel abandoned by us, which of course, this statement is all about that, right?
47:28
SPEAKER_02: And isn't it so easy in moments like that to want to convince our children to feel otherwise?
47:35
SPEAKER_02: To be like, what are you talking about?
47:36
SPEAKER_02: Of course I love you.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: Right.
47:39
SPEAKER_02: Which is sort of missing the point, which is that that kiddo was saying to her mom, I miss you.
47:47
SPEAKER_02: I feel disconnected from you.
47:51
SPEAKER_02: Which is that mom's biggest fear.
47:53
SPEAKER_02: What if my child misses me and feels disconnected?
47:55
SPEAKER_02: And then at the same time, of course that child misses her mom and feels disconnected.
48:00
SPEAKER_02: That doesn't mean there's a problem, doesn't mean that mom's doing something wrong.
48:04
SPEAKER_02: It means there's a need in the moment.
48:08
SPEAKER_01: Right.
48:09
SPEAKER_02: And the truth is that our children are going to feel that way, even if they're stay-at-home moms.
48:14
SPEAKER_02: Totally.
48:15
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
48:17
SPEAKER_02: So there is this opportunity, I think, and I and I think we're just coming full circle here to really pause in those moments of discomfort, to ask ourselves, what is the most important thing to me in this moment?
48:32
SPEAKER_02: Is it to be right or is it to be connected?
48:35
SPEAKER_02: You were just going to say something.
48:37
SPEAKER_00: That pausing in the moment of discomfort.
48:39
SPEAKER_00: Like we talked about at the beginning of this, like that moment of discomfort is the rocket ship taking off to the next orbit.
48:46
SPEAKER_00: And that moment of discomfort is a pivotal moment in your life.
48:52
SPEAKER_00: And or it can be a moment of discomfort that leads people to numb and shame and spiral and stay and do all sorts of crazy stuff.
49:01
SPEAKER_00: Um, but like every mom has experienced a moment, if it's that situation or another situation, where that discomfort is so real that you just want to cry.
49:13
SPEAKER_00: Every mom has been there, but every mom, I hope, has pushed through to the next orbit after that comes after that revealing moment of pain and discomfort.
49:23
SPEAKER_02: Well, let's give this, let's see this, let's see this through this comment, right?
49:28
SPEAKER_02: On the one hand, we can absolutely understand the mom who feels tense in her body and gets tight and feels defensive and says, What are you talking about?
49:39
SPEAKER_02: We just spent the weekend together.
49:41
SPEAKER_02: Of course I love you, right?
49:43
SPEAKER_02: Don't feel the way you're feeling.
49:45
SPEAKER_02: The way you're feeling is wrong.
49:46
SPEAKER_02: I need you to feel different so that I feel okay about the decisions I'm making.
49:49
SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's a real perspective.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: And that answer or that perspective is going to push that kid farther away because that kid's going to walk away saying to his or herself, see, my mom doesn't get it.
50:04
SPEAKER_02: She doesn't understand.
50:06
SPEAKER_02: That is the moment where we can lean into that discomfort and say, wow, wow, those are big feelings.
50:15
SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
50:18
SPEAKER_02: Tell me more.
50:19
SPEAKER_02: What am I doing or not doing that's leading you to feel that way?
50:24
SPEAKER_02: Or saying something like, it sounds like you're really missing me.
50:30
SPEAKER_02: And I miss you too.
50:34
SPEAKER_02: That 20 seconds is gonna bring more connection and security in that relationship between a mom and a child than the four hours that you tell yourself you should have been home with your child that you were doing something else instead.
50:49
SPEAKER_02: Totally, totally.
50:51
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that interesting?
50:55
SPEAKER_00: And what just like little me inside of me craves to be heard like that?
50:59
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all we want is to be seen, heard, and understood.
51:01
SPEAKER_02: And I think, Susie, that's why you made that big choice to leave the uh influencing the way that you were an influencer in the beginning.
51:13
SPEAKER_02: That's why you chose to leave the church you were in.
51:16
SPEAKER_02: That's why you chose to leave this thing you were doing for work versus this thing you were doing for work versus this thing you were doing for work, because you needed to see, hear, and understand yourself so that you could be of service to the world.
51:33
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: I feel like uh permission to get to know that person, to you know, know yourself is the greatest permission that we can give ourselves and the greatest permission that we could give our kids.
51:47
SPEAKER_00: We spend so much time being like, you should be this and you should be this and you should get good grades when it's like let them explore them, give them permission as you give yourself permission to go find yourself.
51:59
SPEAKER_02: So, Susie, what are you currently offering the world right now, professionally?
52:05
SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what you're currently offering.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: I am in an era of burning it all to the ground, which I love to do.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: But you do well.
52:16
SPEAKER_00: New growth.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: New, new.
52:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm like literally today gonna archive everything in my Instagram for like the last four years because I feel like I've reached a new orbit and I don't want the energy of old orbits.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm the person that's like, oh, who I was two weeks ago, I cannot stand her.
52:31
SPEAKER_00: Like, we're done here.
52:32
SPEAKER_00: I love the evolution process.
52:35
SPEAKER_00: Um, so the next thing I have is a membership called Allowed.
52:40
SPEAKER_00: And it is literally for women to allow themselves permission to be themselves online.
52:45
SPEAKER_00: It's so brutal.
52:47
SPEAKER_00: And as I've taken the mental, physical, emotional abuse of showing up online, I want to help women see it through and show up how they want to, but maybe they're feeling those limitation blocks of like, I can't be seen in that way.
53:00
SPEAKER_00: I want to hold your hand, be like, hell yeah, you can, and you're supposed to, and we're gonna do it together.
53:05
SPEAKER_00: So it's called the allowed membership.
53:07
SPEAKER_02: Susie, I am so moved by how you walk the talk.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: Oh.
53:13
SPEAKER_02: It feels really different to work with someone, to get support from someone, coaching, mentorship, uh guidance, whatever it is, from someone who's actually done it and continuing to do it versus someone who knows all the information and has all the right information to share, but doesn't have the embodiment of that thing.
53:34
SPEAKER_02: And you do that, you embody it.
53:38
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's why I it's why I burn things to the ground so much, is because if I stop embodying it or if it stop being lit up or excited by it, it's like next thing because it has to feel real for it to work.
53:50
SPEAKER_00: Has to feel real, has to feel good.
53:52
SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
53:53
SPEAKER_02: So if anyone is listening and they want to hear more or learn more about this membership, and they're like, dang, I want that woman as my mentor.
54:03
SPEAKER_02: I want to work with her.
54:04
SPEAKER_02: Where can they find you?
54:05
SPEAKER_00: Uh, just come hang with me on Instagram, Susie Holman on Instagram.
54:08
SPEAKER_00: I can't see what version of me you're going to get on any given day because I like to be my real self because I don't think anything other than that is very fun.
54:18
SPEAKER_00: And I've spent a few years trying to be something other than myself along this journey, and it kind of sucks.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: So now it's just me.
54:24
SPEAKER_00: And so I'd love for you to come hang with me on Instagram.
54:27
SPEAKER_02: You're pretty fun to hang with, Susie Schein.
54:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
54:31
SPEAKER_00: And I love you.
54:33
SPEAKER_02: Any last minute, uh, I don't know, words of wisdom, insights, funny stories, anything you want to leave our listeners with.
54:41
SPEAKER_02: And if not, you've given us so much already.
54:43
SPEAKER_02: So zero pressure.
54:44
SPEAKER_02: But are you sitting on anything that you're like, oh, I just want to get that one thing out?
54:47
SPEAKER_00: No, I have actually did this practice.
54:49
SPEAKER_00: My sister-in-law passed along.
54:50
SPEAKER_00: Maybe it will help one of you.
54:51
SPEAKER_00: That it was so helpful to me.
54:53
SPEAKER_00: She said, I asked my kids uh two questions.
54:56
SPEAKER_00: She said, How do you feel the most love for me?
55:01
SPEAKER_00: And the next question was, What is something that I'm not currently doing that you wish I would do?
55:08
SPEAKER_02: Oh, Susie.
55:10
SPEAKER_00: Um, and my daughter, which I was like, of course, of course she says.
55:14
SPEAKER_00: She's like, What am I not currently doing?
55:15
SPEAKER_00: Both my daughter and my son said, get in the pool with us.
55:18
SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Oh gosh, can I really do it?
55:22
SPEAKER_00: Do I love you that much?
55:24
SPEAKER_00: You get in the pool, my hair, if it's not a hair day.
55:27
SPEAKER_00: Anyway, so we're really leaning into our pool mom era.
55:30
SPEAKER_00: We're trying because that's what they wish I did.
55:34
SPEAKER_00: Um, and uh, it was just surprising.
55:38
SPEAKER_00: Each kid's answer to how do I make you feel the most loved?
55:41
SPEAKER_02: Susie, you couldn't have ended with two better questions because um, you know, it's like our kids have so much wisdom to share with us that help us to feel the way we want to feel, which is connected to our kids.
55:57
SPEAKER_02: And sometimes we forget to ask those questions.
56:00
SPEAKER_02: I do want to also say that asking that question, those questions, opens up a portal for discomfort.
56:10
SPEAKER_02: And we cannot stay steady in moments of discomfort if we're not taking care of ourselves.
56:16
SPEAKER_02: So remember for all of our listeners, and I'm just gonna remind both you and me this, because I need to always remind myself this is in order to show up the way we want to with our kids, we have to be really committed to getting ourselves to the place where we can do that from a steady, curious, humorous, joyful, not take it all so seriously place.
56:40
SPEAKER_02: Um, and you clearly have been doing that.
56:42
SPEAKER_02: And um, what lucky, lucky children you have to have you as my mother.
56:48
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
56:49
SPEAKER_02: And how lucky I am to have you as a friend.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
56:51
SPEAKER_00: Thank you for letting me come on.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: Thank you to your amazing listeners for being interested in conversations.
56:57
SPEAKER_00: What good moms you have that like their top of their interest is motherhood.
57:02
SPEAKER_00: Like you have a community of really incredible moms.
57:06
SPEAKER_00: So I'm grateful to have been here.
57:07
SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
57:08
SPEAKER_02: Susie, I am coming through Arizona again in September.
57:12
SPEAKER_02: Oh, woo woo! To Scottsdale again.
57:14
SPEAKER_02: I got to see you and see you in Phoenix.
57:16
SPEAKER_02: So can we make a plan for me to deal?
57:20
SPEAKER_02: I'll I'll check with you off offline.
57:23
SPEAKER_02: I'll tell deal.
57:25
SPEAKER_02: All right.
57:26
SPEAKER_02: Susie, I'm gonna start recording, stop recording, but don't go anywhere because I want to just say good an official goodbye.
57:31
SPEAKER_02: But as far as our listeners go, thanks for being here.
57:35
SPEAKER_02: Hey, if you loved this episode and enjoy this podcast, please just take a moment to subscribe, rate, and review and send it to one mom out there who you think might benefit.
57:48
SPEAKER_02: When you do that, you help to make sure that no woman out there ever feels like they have to mother alone.
57:56
SPEAKER_02: Thank you.