Latest / Outside The Therapy Room / Episode 65: Triggers, Glimmers and Our Nervous System with Bethany Hanman

Transcript

Episode 65: Triggers, Glimmers and Our Nervous System with Bethany Hanman · Outside The Therapy Room

• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: We'll be chatting about everything from mental health and relationships to media and credit.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: As well as personal experiences and reflection.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: All in the hope of normalizing our humanness and helping you see that you're not alone.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is Outside the Therapy Room.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Hi everyone.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Outside of the Therapy Room.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Today, Bethany joins us.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Hello.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, I'm back.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wearing my new moon sweater.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: As I was saying, I'm always wearing in this episode.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I swear I have other clothes.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: No, you have no other clothes.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just wrapping your moon all the time.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: New moon clothes all the time.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much for being here.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's always so fun to have you on the podcast.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I'm happy that we're going to be talking about triggers and glimmers today.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I think, you know, we're seeing it a lot in the therapy space and online a lot.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of, you know, the difference between triggers or people starting to kind of notice glimmers around their house or around their space.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so triggers are often talked about as moments that activate our stress response, but glimmers are the opposite.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're small little cues that maybe uh make us feel safe or regulated in our nervous system.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought it would be good for us to maybe talk a little bit about this.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're not doing formal introductions because you've been here.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're like a regular people know you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um there's so many episodes we've done together.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, is there do you want to in like really briefly introduce yourself?
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Bethany.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_02: I am a therapist at any wine.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: I've been here for a few years and I love it here.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um outside the therapy room, I am best known for watching reality TV at all times, every Bravo TV show.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: Just tell me about it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm familiar, I love it.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we have the odd team dinner where me and um Alicia, a former team member here, um, we just talk nonstop about reality TV.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like I'm either like in therapy zone or reality TV zone.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: And um, that's kind of the basics of me.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a lot of other things to be said.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: And speaking of reality TV, Bethany and Alicia both did a podcast episode on the kind of obsession with reality TV.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so make sure to check that out in season one.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was a good one.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was a fun one.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: I do not watch reality TV.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are constantly telling me to.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: I just I can't get into it.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what it is.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I will try.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've said that so many times.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then I will also be excited in the comments.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Another episode.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like now that's on board.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so we are going to unpack triggers and glimmers, why they matter, and how people can start noticing glimmers.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think we, you know, we always, I guess it's become like this thing now, kind of with pop psychology.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're constantly being saying like things are triggering us, whether they're actually triggering us or we're just saying it.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: But I've, you know, heard a lot of people being like, whoa, you're triggering me if they're saying anything, with like some form of emphasis and how they're speaking.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what is an actual trigger?
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can you answer that?
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean a good place to start because I do feel like just the word trigger, it's so used, it's almost lost meaning.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I even struggle, like I notice when I say like triggered in session.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, I I know we say that word a lot, but like the it does have a definition, it does have an understanding.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: Let's start by saying what it's not.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Being bothered by something or finding something kind of annoying is not necessarily a trigger.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's not really what we're talking about.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So the like kind of pop psychology use of like, I'm so triggered by her outfit.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: Probably not.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's probably a world where like there's a certain trauma trigger or something with someone's outfit, but probably not, right?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: So, what a trigger is, is it's really something that it takes you to a place of kind of losing that sense of um comfort groundedness in your nervous system, and instead kind of takes you into a place of that fight or flight.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't have to be a big, big, big moment.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: It can actually be really, really subtle.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, something um comes up and you almost like dissociate a little bit, or you feel kind of sweaty palms, or you know, you might have that kind of somatic reaction.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and you might not always know why.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it a trigger in that kind of therapeutic definition is some kind of stimulus that creates a survival instinct or um elevated state of hyperarousal reaction.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's how I would kind of define it.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_02: What about you?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's definitely like that nervous system is being activated in that moment.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that's our trauma responses fight, flight, freeze, on.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we can feel it somewhere in our body.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, we might not like the clothing that someone is wearing or a comment that somebody makes and it may make us feel uncomfortable or bothered, but it may not always necessarily be a trigger.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: But as you pointed out, there'd be some instances where, yeah, it can be based on that person's experience and everything.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think trigger can sometimes also be tied to trauma.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so if we've had experience of trauma, there might be sensitivities that we have to certain things that may recall, like kind of remind us of the traumatic event.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so in this case, it could be an outfit, it could be a statement, it could be a scent, a smell, a feeling, whatever it could be that is related to that traumatic event, which is now being triggered by what's happening in real time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I do think it often gets misused.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's a whole episode on its own, but it does often get misused, um, you know, along with a whole bunch of other uh kind of like therapy speaker therapy words.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yes, in this sense, we're talking about actual triggers um and how like the the actual formal definition of a trigger and not the pop psychology definition of a trigger.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, yeah.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: Outside the therapy room, but we're like the doors open.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, why do you think some things trigger one person but not another?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that's where we really start to understand triggers in their kind of trauma connection, that trauma sense.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um when you think of, so we could think of someone who's gone through something really traumatic and the place that they were in when that happened, the smells, the music that was playing, the the people that were there, the food they were eating, like it could be so many or all of these things in a traumatic event that because they were in your environment at that time, when those stimuli start to appear elsewhere in your life, they could potentially have that ability to kind of put you in that fight, fight, oh my god, the phu-fu-fu, put you into that survival mode that um takes you out of the present moment and elevates your heart rate or or really gets you going.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason that like someone might be triggered by something and someone else would say, like, what do you mean?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's probably because that person has gone through something in a specific space where something that we might see so subtle as like the song that's playing could actually be something that takes them back to that traumatic event.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: And when your brain is going back to a traumatic event, it naturally lights up your system in the way of like almost being in that place again, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: That you would need to be safe, that you would need to be able to react.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you're going to kind of get that somatic experience, the heart racing, your stomach kind of drop feeling, your palms might get sweaty, you might be hyper-vigilant, like looking around the area.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't always have to make sense.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_02: And in many instances, won't make sense to a lot of other people that are there.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_02: But for that person, it's it's has some kind of salience to something that has maybe happened in the past that was scary or life-threatening or abusive or challenging.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it speaks to everyone having different experiences.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the kind of example I like to give is everybody could watch the same movie and have a different kind of perspective or experience from that same movie.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's because it's, you know, tied into what our lives have been like in the past.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, another thing I want to kind of add to what you mentioned is our senses play a big role in um in triggers sometimes.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: As we've pointed out, it can sometimes be a sense that we smell, it can be um certain things that we might see, things that we might hear, different kinds of textures, things like that.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of our senses are kind of tied into responding to those triggers because it is kind of our our body is holding on to a lot of the traumatic experience that happened that maybe our mind hasn't really caught up to yet.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, a lot of those physical sensations can occur.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Jumping over now to glimmers, I think recently we've been seeing it again on social media a lot.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: People have been starting to talk a little bit about something called glimmers.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: So these are small moments that we might notice in our surroundings that help the nervous system feel safe.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of like the opposite, the antidote, like whatever you want to call it to those triggers.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe not antidote, just like the opposite kind of feeling that we can kind of find around us um to just kind of help our nervous system feel safe.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it does come from polyvagal theory.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's also used in narrative therapy.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there is kind of like a therapeutic um.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: There's a couple different ways to understand that glimmer.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, before Yvonne and I did this episode, we were kind of like, well, how do you understand the glimmer?
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so within polyvagal theory, it's really like, yeah, that grounding experience, that safety experience, something that brings you like joy or that feeling of feeling really centered in the present moment, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like if the opposite is kind of dissociation, then it would be that moment of feeling really present, present, and um able to kind of be yourself and open in that space.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_02: In narrative therapy, a glimmer is kind of a moment within your story that doesn't follow the traditional way that things go, right?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: So the idea of narrow narrative therapy is that we can get really caught in like our story and things going the way that they always go.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: A glimmer would be something that like actually goes in a different way, but we don't really attune to it, we don't really pay attention to it, we don't really give it the credit that it needs to demonstrate like a difference and a change within um kind of a stuckness or a pattern.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: So a glimmer would be what's an example of something that actually creates safety?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: What's an example of something that like has changed a long-going pattern that feels really good and positive?
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: They're very similar.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like probably narrative things.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same word.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like I mean, obviously it's glimmer, like it sounds very sparkly, so it would be like a positive thing.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I was I was interested to hear that there's like it's used in two kind of different therapeutic contexts, but but with the same same intention behind it.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I guess like to give some examples of what glimmers look like in everyday life, and maybe you can speak more to like the narrative perspective, but in the polyvagal perspective, it would look like um like sometimes seeing like the sunshine come through a window, and you can kind of like see, you know, the rays, and like that can be a moment where you're like, wow, that's so beautiful, and just really be present in that moment.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Glimmers can also be simple things like enjoying your cup of coffee in the morning and just like you know, taking that first sip, or as my kids say, they love their corner bite of their pizza, like the very first bite, it's so special.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like that for them might be a glimmer because they're like, Yeah, 100% bite.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: What are some glimmers more in like the narrative kind of space or examples of glimmer?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, when I think of glimmer, like maybe not so much narrative, but kind of in this context, like my immediate thought, and it because it happened so recently, that first kind of day of spring, or that feeling of the day of spring when it's like suddenly 20 degrees out, like I think that happened at some point in March or it happened.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like one day.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: But like when I was little, when we were at school, like when you went out for recess, you always had to wear your coat in the winter, right?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was like you'd get in trouble if you were like taking your coat off while you were like building like a snowman, you had to keep your coat on.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: But this one day that came in every year, you couldn't necessarily predict when it would be, but it would suddenly be like 15, 20 degrees outside.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone would just take their coats off, and like all the lunch monitors and teachers that were outside, they couldn't catch us because we all did it on this one day, and it was like this most like freeing, warm, like feeling warm without your coat on was like such a positive feeling that even today, like you know, this year, like I go outside on that kind of one day.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not wearing a coat because I keep leaving it in the car, and then it's so gorgeous, and I'm warm, and I walk, and I I feel like I'm having a good day, and it really just got started.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of that experience of like maybe everything is okay.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: I was just like cold and dark.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Life is gonna be okay.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of moment of that like grounding, centering.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's my feeling.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: A narrative understanding of a glimmer, maybe an example would be so let's say um you have a really difficult conversation or a different, oh my gosh, a difficult relationship with a parent, right?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Where they expect so much out of you and you feel like you can never say no, but you have this one time where you say no and everything is okay.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: You say no, you set a boundary and it works and it regulates your system, right?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: It was a change to a pattern that typically goes differently, but in that moment, you were actually able to do something about it.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: And what would be good in like a therapy space is to say, okay, that glimmer, that little like hint of a moment that looks different, that's actually really, really, really important.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really key feature of something outside of that stuckness, right?
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: That we should give more attention to because it indicates that there's something other than the stuckness that we're in.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like both of them are so similar.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And to speak to your kind of for first example about like taking your jacket off in like a really warm day, I think our glimmers, just like our triggers, can kind of be connected to a traumatic event from our pasts, our glimmers can be connected to really joyful moments from our past.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so again, even for my kiddos, like with their corner bites pizza, or um, you know, like uh if there's like a big pizza and there's uh like a bubble on one of the pizzas, they'll fight for it because I one time mentioned that it's a lucky slice.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like, that's something from their child, like from when they were really, really little to now, they're like, oh my gosh, look at I got like a lucky slice or whatever.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that may be an example of a glimmer for them.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: The example that you gave again, there was a really positive experience from your childhood of like getting to rip your jacket off and not be told by the teachers to like put it back on on a really nice-rebellious child.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, how dare you tell me I can't take my jacket off.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: But like all of those things, like it's something that now in your adult life you're able to notice and just kind of like feel that moment of like, ooh, I remember feeling this when I was younger.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think our glimmers can be like little things that make us feel good, but they can also have a lot of connection to something in our past baking, a recipe uh for cookies that maybe you know you and a loved one did when you were younger.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for me, a a really big glimmer for me.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I guess maybe I guess I'm gonna put it as a glimmer, is like when you freshly like you wash all your sheets and they're nice and warm from the dryer, and then you make your bed, and then you're gonna get the first sleep in your brain.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's never the best.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: It feels so good.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's the best.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Me too.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when I'm in there, I'm like kicking my feet, being like my toes.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we do, we feel like it.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's just it's so nice.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it brings us like this feeling that we just experienced live, just imagining us having that.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: But like it's feeling at home, like I know I'm gonna have to wash my sheets now.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: But like it is, it's like these little moments that bring us joy, and sometimes our glimmers go unnoticed.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we don't really take a moment to slow down and maybe pay attention to some of those things.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the difference between triggers and glimmers are that with glimmers, we can be intentional about um kind of wanting to notice these moments within our day.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas with triggers, we don't really have that much control over them, unfortunately.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: There, you know, there are things that come up when we're feeling really good and then we're annoyed or frustrated or disappointed in ourselves that we felt triggered on a day that we felt was like going really well or whatever it could be.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so glimmers can definitely be something that we actually have a choice about, but often go unnoticed because of life.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're stressed, we're overwhelmed.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what do you think are some examples of glimmers that people might miss in their day?
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, especially when I think of these ideas of like glimmers going unnoticed, when we think about trauma, right, with something triggering, like we almost can't not pay attention to it because it's eliciting a feeling of unsafety.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And for someone with kind of complex trauma or someone who's experienced trauma for a long, long time, it might actually be really hard to pay attention to the things that are outside the narrative of the trauma story because you wouldn't choose to embrace um a moment of like fleeting safety when you're used to daily unsafety, right?
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: And yet when we kind of grow and are maybe in spaces where we're not in unsafety anymore, there would actually be that really good therapeutic benefit to paying attention to those glimmers because they won't necessarily cause harm, right?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_02: I almost seeing the like if you're so used to trauma, a glimmer or attuning to a glimmer might feel like a moment of letting your guard down, which might not always feel safe.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: So I guess that's how we can kind of understand like why would someone not pay attention to a glimmer?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's a story that would take you out of that hypervigilance.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: So that might be really challenging for someone.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, examples of glimmers that people might miss.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I think glimmers are really, really particular into like an attunement and like a framing in your day, right?
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um we can go through a day and call it a bad day, and yet during that bad day, we got the coffee that we wanted.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we had a really amazing moment with a client.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: We um were laughing songs on the radio.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we listened to our favorite song in the car on the way home.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: There was no traffic.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um we got home and we had our favorite dinner, but still there was something about that day that made it like a bad day, right?
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe the traffic in the morning was terrible.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: So you just kind of start the day wrong or feel off that day.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they might go unnoticed just because it doesn't fit the narrative of how we thought the day was going, right?
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or that it didn't feel important.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: About that kind of framing and that mindset of like what keeps you in the present moment, um, and what takes you out of it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think I kind of lost the point there, but no, I think you touched right on it because those are little things that happen uh like often in our days.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And some days we might be more present and aware of them, and other days we may not.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like as you pointed out, that can sometimes um depend on like where we are within our nervous system.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we are already waking up a little triggered from maybe a bad sleep or a nightmare that we had, then we might be a little bit more on edge the rest of the day.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And some of these glimmers or these little moments of being present are gonna go unnoticed.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like as you pointed out, right?
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's this potential threat if we let down our guard that um, you know, things are gonna feel worse or something bad is gonna happen.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like some other examples to add to what you mentioned is like sunlight.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Do we notice like the sun just like coming through a window or how pretty it looks when it's like between clouds and just like a ray is like sticking out?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, our favorite song, a comforting smell, um, making eye contact with somebody again.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: If a stranger smiling at you like on the street just gives you like a little smile as they walk by, are you not maybe registering that?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are you just like focused on like looking at the ground because you like, you know, don't really want to be looking up ahead or you're so hyper-vigilant on everything else that's going on that you don't notice this little moment of connection.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, petting an animal, I think, is a big one too.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: We so it's it happens so naturally and so often if our animal is around us or close to us, we might pet them and give them like, you know, a little head rub and be like, okay, get out of here.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: But other times um we are able to actually sink into that a little bit more and really use that as like co-regulation or or you know, using like being um present in like the sounds our pet is making.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: Are they purring?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: Are they like nudging their head forward for more attention?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are things that sometimes can go unnoticed, depending on where we're at.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I think too, like there does exist a space where this can actually happen for triggers too.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: That, and this is maybe more so like if your triggers or your trauma was a more acute moment.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we can think of something like a breakup, right?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um the song that was playing well, he broke up with someone.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or I remember a moment where, you know, there was a guy dated, and and there was a song that reminded me of him so much that I stopped playing it.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: And then two years later, when I heard it and it didn't bother me, it felt like kind of a big deal, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: That like this can exist for triggers too, where you're moving through time and space, you're experiencing kind of processing and therapy, that the things that would hit so hard that would take you out, that would make you want to cry, depending on what they are, might not always hit like that if your day is being framed differently, right?
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: So, like on that first day of spring kind of feeling, if someone was hit with a trigger that would normally really, really get to them, but their mindset that day was really focused and grounded, they quite possibly could feel less intensely triggered in that moment.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, of course, this doesn't apply to everything, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Someone with a really, really deep, strong, um, longer, complex trauma history, um, we can't expect or hope that there would one day be an instance where things don't quote unquote bother them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: But it is just the little bits and pieces of like how does that like mindset, how does that ability to even be mindful or present in your moment affect the ability to a see glimmers, but be not feel so entrenched by a trigger?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree with that.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um the last little point on glimmers before we move into like the next um area is you know, we talked a lot about triggers and our nervous system, our body.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but how can glimmers actually change our nervous system over time?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or yeah, I guess can it?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, I mean, I think the things that are grounding in life are very important moments that allow us to feel like we can move from trauma, that we can move from stuckness, right?
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: That like we can't always have to imagine a world where we're never hurt by anything and only get joy from everything, right?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: That would be really kind of unfair, like positive, what's it called?
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like toxic positivity.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, toxic positivity view, yeah, right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_02: But that absolutely, like the more we attune to our glimmers, the more that kind of strengthens that ability for that nervous system to have that like bounce back experience, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: That um ability to ground oneself.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I I do think it can affect our nervous system in the way that like we might grow and adjust to how we handle like stress if we're able to kind of tune into what takes me out of stress, what actually makes me feel joy or awe or that kind of flow state experience.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um that that can really put that fight or flight feeling away in that given moment.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think too, like speaking to like our little moments of excitement, like a brand, the freshly made bed and like getting a change, like the ability to take your jacket off in the spring, it's these moments that often like happen more than once.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so there is um, oh, what's the word?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like um anticipation of like an excitement waiting for those moments that that act in and of itself can come and regulate our nervous system because we have something to look forward to in that moment.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm washing my laundry, I might be washing it a little bit differently because I'm really excited about making my bed and getting a chance to sleep in it.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you see like the weather channel and see, like, oh, I might not have to wear a jacket tomorrow, like it can again bring up like the same feeling that you felt as a kiddo, you know, really like wanting to rip that jacket off.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do, I, I do, yeah, I agree with you.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it could eventually have an impact on our nervous system.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: It does in the moment, but so does being present and grounded or through meditation, like all of these things naturally um help regulate our nervous system because we are able to kind of pause and focus a little bit more into our into like where we are and what's around us.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um you can be kind of purposeful about them, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you're having a bad day, but you know how it feels to kind of get into like a nicely made bed, right?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something that you can actually start to create for yourself to say, you know what?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like I actually do have the ability to turn this day around, at least by the time it's bedtime, to feel super cozy or to um get home and make that choice to like, I kind of don't have a ton of energy, but I would love to like order my favorite dinner, right?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's the ability to like start to know what's in your toolbox of how to make yourself feel okay.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't always have to look like, you know, the classic like self-care thing that we don't really feel a strong alignment to.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you're not a bubble bath person, a bubble bath is not really gonna hit.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: But if you are a bubble bath per person and you know that that's something that like at the end of a day makes you feel really warm and cozy and comforted, then that's what you start to do for yourself, right?
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_02: It it's that self-compassion of okay, this day could have been terrible.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: And what can I do to like bring it back to me?
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a really good practice to kind of get into.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So when we're looking, I mean, again, looking at triggers versus glimmers or with glimmers, like why you know, there's a pattern here that we are noticing triggers much more strongly than maybe we do with glimmers.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: It happens automatically, we don't always have control in it, and it can impact us right away.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It can have like a really strong body response to feeling a trigger.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: So, why do you think triggers feel so much more stronger than glimmers?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I like to kind of give like an animal understanding of this because when I think of a trigger and I think of that idea of going into fight or flight, like this is something that all living beings have in some kind of way.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the reason that it would actually be really, really important to be attuned to a trigger is because it's taking you into something that can create unsafety.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: So if we think about, you know, out in the wild and there's a deer and it wants to go eat something, but it thinks it hears a lion in the distance, it's not a good idea for that deer to ignore the fact that it thinks it hurt a lion just because the water tastes so good today.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: It could be in a moment that could feel really good for it, but the fact that there's even a glimpse of a 1% chance of unsafety, it's far more important in that moment to pay attention to the potential unsafe situation, go into that fight or flight, start looking around, listening more acutely, right?
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: That like when we think of that in the kind of human experience, it might not actually be a moment of unsafety, but if it feels like it is, or at one time in your life it was a moment of unsafety, I would never judge or say, you know, try to just ignore it when it's clearly something that protected them either in the past and not so much now, or continues to be something that protects them in their given environment.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we pay more attention to it because if it's something that could make us feel unsafe, something that could in a way like threaten our life, why would we not pay attention to it?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: A glimmer, on the other hand, that really comes from the ability of like almost letting your guard down, right?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: So if that deer was out and it definitely didn't hear a lion and now it was sure, well, maybe that glimmer would be the ability to say, okay, everything is okay.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay for me to drink this water right now.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh wow, this water tastes so good, right?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, but it comes secondary to making sure that the environment is safe.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as like as beings, animal, human, whatever, we are, you know, uh, we have the survival instinct.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: We need to keep ourselves safe.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, if that deer ignores that, there's a potential risk that they're gonna be harmed.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the same thing for us as humans.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, our triggers are a warning.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: They're telling, I mean, you know, our triggers can be a warning, they're telling us something, but in certain situations where, you know, maybe um, I don't know, a trigger isn't a trigger in that moment, but it was in the past, that's still something that's important, and our body is still trying to kind of give us that awareness.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, kind of like this better safe than sorry approach, I think, in our minds, right?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: That like our nervous system will always be really good at attuning to things that create unsafety because even if the risk is extremely low, or actually the risk is not at all, right?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: That like um, you know, hearing a song, for example, the song in nature playing does not create unsafety.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: But the song in nature playing when connected to a traumatic event creates the feeling of unsafety.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_02: And our mind kind of says, better safe than sorry.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: Let's assume we're actually in unsafety.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: So, like it's kind of like that's where the non-optional kind of comes out.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's where we see the like I can't control it factor of our mind is always going to want to pay attention to what creates safety and and what creates unsafety.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: And again, like I'm gonna separate the fact, like we're focusing on tra triggers and glimmers.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: In that example, there's so many tools somebody can, you know, adapt and apply to still listen to that song, knowing that physically there is no danger anymore and kind of cope through that.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not talking about that right now.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking about like the actual experience that your body is having when you're experiencing those triggers and why it can sometimes get in the way or we might not um kind of feel that same urgency when we're noticing glimmers around us.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it's possible to train ourselves to notice glimmers more?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um yes, but I would say with the stim stipulation of something that creates known safety, right?
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: So when we think of trauma, if someone is still in ongoing trauma, like they are in the environment that caused them harm, asking them to pay attention to a glimmer would feel just something I would never suggest.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's asking that deer to hear the lion and then ignore it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry about it, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Pay attention to how good the water is.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, why would you do that?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's not safe, it's not a good idea.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, and this is where we see, you know, people that are able to leave um unsafe environments or um live on their own if they've experienced like childhood trauma or um exit an abusive relationship or a friendship and develop new positive um relationships and friendships.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Once the threat is legitimately gone out of their life, then I think it's absolutely the space where there's something that's saying there's absolutely no lie in here.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's okay to act as though there's no lie in here.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that would be that kind of attunement to glimmers.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: So I say yes, absolutely.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_02: And to do it while existing in the unsafe environment, it does it doesn't make kind of logical survival sense.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, I agree with that.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, you're you still need to feel a sense of safety in order to kind of be aware of some of those things that make your nervous system regulated.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you're in the environment where your nervous system has to be activated to maintain your safety, it's an impossible ask to be like, oh my God, shut that nervous system down and just like taste the water.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like don't even look over there.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's yeah, it's not safe.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, kind of getting yourself to a place of safety, whether that's physical, emotional, mental, like any kind of safety, then people can maybe make more space to notice those small moments of glimmers.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, but I do, I think that again speaks to our nervous system.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_00: Our nervous system is going to relax in when when we notice glimmers versus with trauma or triggers, it's activated.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and sometimes there's a reason for the activation.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, we're being very self-compassionate that like triggers do happen and it's okay and it it makes sense.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: It can be understood that from your experience, yeah, it comes from somewhere.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then yeah, kind of like trying to throw a band-aid on top of that by saying, oh, just look at the glimmers isn't always going to be the best solution.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: 100%, right?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's not always about changing the response.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's about first acknowledging like what's the stimuli doing, anyways, right?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: Would there actually be potential for a different response there?
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe not.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, since we're like again talking a little bit about glimmers and kind of safety, um, when we aren't like, let's assume we are in the place where we can start identifying glimmers.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do we start?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: How can somebody begin identifying what those glimmers are for them?
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think it starts with a certain mindfulness and like a noticing of what's going on.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: So it's so it really is asking you to be able to kind of take pause, right?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, some ways that I think people do this a little bit more actively, like there's kind of like gratitude journaling, um, thinking at the end of the day, like, what was one good thing that happened today?
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: What was one thing today that made you smile?
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not asking you to go and revise your day and say it was the best day ever.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not about that at all.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: The idea of a glimmer is that it might be momentary and fleeting and tiny and maybe not even noticeable.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_02: But the reason it's noticeable is because you paid attention to it.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: So the process of kind of noticing these glimmers is that kind of reflective thinking.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: So end of day thinking, what's one thing that I I liked about my day today?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, my day kind of sucked, but I ended up getting my favorite lunch today.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's a glimmer within a really, really hard day.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not to say the day was great, it's to say, okay, you had a good lunch today.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_02: Amazing.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_02: And then by kind of being reflective in that, in that more active way, I think we start to do it in that more passive way too.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of at the end of the day, it starts to look like, okay, oh, I'm feeling like I'm having a tough moment at work or school and I'm having a hard time paying attention.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do for that pick-me-up?
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: What can I do to like actively um let myself feel better?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's kind of nice out.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, I'm gonna go for a 10-minute walk before my next class, right?
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to um go get a coffee um from my favorite little cafe where they're always super, super nice to me there, right?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's the little bits and pieces that you like start to put in your life um once you've noticed like what what hits for you?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: What's that like cozy bed feeling for you?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I do like the small practices.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to kind of jump right in and in the moment be like, oh my god, this is a glimmer.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's hard.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that can be really hard to do.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, like it's, I mean, it does happen, but it's hard if you're forcing yourself to like notice a glimmer in that moment.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I really like the example you gave of small practices, whether it's like a journal or just like, you know, some like a ritual that you add to the end of your day to just kind of go back with a fresh pair of like perspectives to be like, yeah, the day maybe wasn't the best, but this one tinsy moment where, you know, my favorite song came on and you know, the road cleared up and you know, I was singing at the top of my lungs with the windows open and like, you know, it was a nice sunny day, like that moment was a really positive moment in my day.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's wonderful.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's amazing.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't necessarily mean the rest of your day now has to, like, as you pointed out, like doesn't mean that now you have to like reshift your mentality of like your day was wonderful because of this one moment.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, it could have still been a really bad day, but you have this moment.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like, even that can like um kind of like um like be a little bit of weight off your shoulders to be like, yes, originally it was all black and it was a horrible, horrible day.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: But now I have this little tiny piece of sunshine that's coming in from like this moment um that was a glimmer.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, those small practices, those small routines will slowly build up into real authentic moments in the present to be able to pay attention to some of those things.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I think a lot of that too, like it comes from a self-compassion of allowing yourself to notice those things, right?
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: That like we're really asking our minds to not think in black and white parameters.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: We're asking them to think in like the gray zone of what was one thing, one singular thing that was okay today.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the one singular thing that was okay today could be that the day is done.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, good, that's great.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_02: I got through it, yeah.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: I got through it, right?
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: It it's that ability to reflect and be kind and speak to yourself like that really good friend, would say, like, oh, I'm so glad you got through it.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: It sounds terrible, but you did it, it's done, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: That that even that kind of mental ability can kind of unleash those glimmers for you too.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: And as you pointed out too, it's like the sensory awareness, trying to identify like what does feel cozy and soothing for us in all of our senses.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe it is listening to a good song, maybe it's listening to an audiobook, maybe you're replaying, you know, something that you really enjoy.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, maybe it's a podcast, maybe it's something else, whatever.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then like physically or like uh sensory wise, too, maybe it's a really cozy blanket or you have a weighted blanket and that makes you feel good.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then if we're talking about like um taste and smell, maybe it's a drink, it's a food, it's a baked Like something that kind of is soothing for you.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it can be so many things, but I think having that sensory awareness so that we can kind of identify what some of those sensory things are that really help ground us and soothe us is important.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then this um takes a little bit of practice, maybe, but also like adding intentional pauses to your day.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um we just did an episode with Claudia last week where we talked about play and sometimes intentionally putting time for play or for pause for a reset if it's between appointments or between things, like you know, I'm at work now, I'm going to the gym or whatever it could be.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, just having those intentional pauses where you can maybe just be present, maybe kind of ground yourself in that space, and then you might be a little bit more aware to glimmers that may come in the moment.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, kind of adding some of those in your day can be helpful.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think glimmers are helpful for anxiety or burnout?
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_02: Anxiety or burnout.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, burnout a hundred percent.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I think burnout in so many ways, and this is not to oversimplify it, like it's very hard and complex.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Burnout in so many ways is that like groundhog day feeling.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_02: Like every single day is the same and it's bad and it sucks, and something takes you out of the ability to be present.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think glimmers are a huge part of working with burnout, maybe even like specifically like lower levels of burnout, of how do you kind of change the pattern before it really gets hard to control?
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, right?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's the attunement into not every day is the same.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's the ability to see the uniqueness within every moment and therefore be more present.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so burnout in particular, I I do see like that glimmer idea being really helpful.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Anxiety, yeah, I think so.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because when I think of anxiety and glimmers, I almost think of the moments of like those little wins within a day of something not having to activate your nervous system in that fight or flight way, right?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: So a glimmer for someone who's anxious could be a moment where they're hit with a trigger and instead of that ruining their whole day or making them go home or making them enter into a panic attack.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: Could that actually look like a moment of compassion and saying, like, ooh, I really don't feel that great right now?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Something's making me feel really anxious, but I'm going to use that self-compassion and that kindness to focus on cooling down my nervous system.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: That like the response to a trigger could probably actually be a glimmer within your day.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_02: If we're like, I'm at the point where it's like if we say like glimmer one more time.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: I know it's like a tongue twister.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like take a sip of water every time we say glimmer and triggers.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, that it it's a glimmer can be the opportunity to see a little break or a little shift in a pattern.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think with something like anxiety and burnout, it's all about that feeling of patterns never changing.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: So these little moments of a tiny, tiny shift, a tiny moment where something that usually makes you anxious made you 10% less anxious.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_02: What a great moment.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: What a good thing to keep in mind that like change is possible.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: And like therapy is so like nuanced because again, like a glimmer can be so many.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: It could be a coping strategy, it's grounding, it's mindfulness and meditation.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, really we are just dressing it up as the word glimmer and making it a little bit more frankly.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it is all of these things, right?
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because when we're feeling anxious, that means our thoughts are activated, our body is being reactive in that moment.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: Taking a pause to kind of practice a grounding strategy or statement in that moment is gonna help regulate our nervous system so we can actually assess the situation in like a better way.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so maybe like we're feeling really anxious about whatever it could be, like going to see friends after a really long time of not seeing them.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: Our anxiety is like going through the roof, our anxiety is trying to protect us.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, well, what if they don't do this?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: What if that?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: What if this?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then to kind of make space for a glimmer might be to just pause and be like, I can't wait to see my friends.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I haven't seen them in a long time.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: I am feeling a little nervous and anxious, and I'm also feeling excited.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm gonna order my favorite drink or I'm gonna get my favorite dessert at the end, like, and that's something I can look forward to, whatever.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: We're just dulling that mindful moment of like, you know, what is it called?
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like retweaking that thought in into a glimmer, a more sparkly outfit, right?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: In like the language.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but really for anxiety and for burnout, I think it is just like taking that pause, having that space, um, and yeah, having it be like a mindful moment.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_02: Seeing the little moments of change or little moments of wow, okay.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't always have to be this way.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: So if listeners can take away one thing about here's the word again, triggers and glimmers.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: Triggers and glimmers, triggers and glimmers, yes.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: What would you want it to be?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um, ooh, good question.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would want it to be the idea that like being able to be present or being reflective within your life for both triggers and glimmers is really, really key, right?
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_02: It's this ability to get to know yourself in a different way.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's an ability to get to know that like change is possible sometimes, right?
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: When we're thinking of those glimmer stories.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing, too, is that we can understand why triggers exist, right?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: Even in the therapy room, we experience the idea of like, no wonder you have that trigger, as opposed to why would you have that trigger, right?
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: That like there's a lot of sense and understanding to what comes up for us that would make us feel unsafe.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_02: That like changing that would be really, really hard because we would first want to make sure that we do feel safe.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if that my answer is kind of like A, it's not that easy.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: B, it takes a very kind of certain environment to feel safe enough in kind of engaging in these glimmers.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: But when we are able to do it, it can be as simple as that little bit of an attunement.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: How do we pay attention in a different way?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: And then have the ability to kind of see the gray a little bit more, that not everything is good day or bad day, that it's you know a little bit of a mix of everything.
• 51:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think normalizing and validating is really what you're kind of leaning towards in terms of the triggers, right?
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like we want to validate that that trigger feels really scary in that moment.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: It makes sense.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's somewhere it comes from, and we want like we want to normalize that, yeah, it does make sense.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's obviously coming from somewhere.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's have some understanding and compassion towards that.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when the space is appropriate for us and when we have this level of safety, then we can make more space for those like moments of pause or intention or positivity, whatever we want to call it.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: What's one glimmer that you've noticed recently?
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, okay.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my was the whole coat spring day.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: But like I do really like I feel like spring is like my glimmer moment.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's not even my favorite season, but like, you know, the smells outside where it's like you can kind of smell like when the rain just kind of finished and it's warm, that feeling of like a humidity that we haven't felt in a really long time, and then catch me in summer complaining about it.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: But like right now it's okay.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, putting my windows down, uh, or like I have a long drive to work still right now, but um when a song plays and I like sing the whole thing and my drive doesn't actually feel that long because I'm really into the music that I'm listening to.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: Those are some of my my glimmers.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_00: Mine are similar.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think like the weather and the temperature and like being out in nature are big glimmers for me.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, like a few days ago when it was really warm, like going outside, um, you know, just again feeling the breathing.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Even today it was rainy dropping the kids off, and I had my umbrella and I had just done my hair, and so the wind blowing ruined my hair.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_00: That was frustrating.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_00: But before that, I was like, oh, like I didn't have to wear a big jacket.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just have like a light jacket with my umbrella and my rain boots.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: And there was like puddly moments where I'm like, I'm in my rain boots, so we can like walk on the puddles and like you know, like see the ripples of the puddles if we're like just like dipping our toes into the puddles, and so like things like that that are also very like childlike, right?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like jumping in puddles and like doing all of this.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I think yeah, that was like my glimmer, I guess, this morning.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I love that.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: So cute.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_02: I need rain boots.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_00: Get some rain boots.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I know I can jump in any puddle.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you can jump in puddles.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Bethany, as always.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a pleasure having you here.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think again, this is just a helpful conversation around nervous system, really.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's kind of like what it all ties into.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, again, hopefully our listeners are able to notice at least one glimmer.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: But like, yeah, intentionally like try to notice a glimmer um in your day and just kind of see where it takes you.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you so much.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_00: You are going to be opening up your caseload in a little bit.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so people will be able to find you on our website.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, do you want to share a little bit about your caseload opening up?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, sure.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_02: So I am currently part-time at New Moon, but we'll be moving to full-time, more so kind of um August, September.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: So um, if you're kind of taking your summer and you're a student and then you're coming back in September, that's a great time to get started in therapy before it gets kind of really dark and gross outside.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so definitely get in touch with us here at New Moon.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I would love to work with you.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And Bethany offers free consultations again, uh, sometime in the summer.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: You'll be able to get book a consultation with her, get to know her a little bit, see if you're interested in working.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you can follow us on outside the therapy room as well as New Moon Counseling KW on Instagram and TikTok.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but thanks again, Bethany.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, always so much fun.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_02: Such a pleasure.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: Go jump into the puddles today.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna go jump into some puddles and hopefully there's some more sunshine next time.
• 55:14
  unknown: Perfect.
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_00: All right, everyone, take care.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see you next time.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to Outside the Therapy Room.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_00: This podcast is intended for educational and entertainment purposes only.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_00: If you reside in Ontario and are interested in working with one of our therapists, please visit our website in the show notes.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: If you reside outside of Ontario, a quick Google search or search through psychology today will help you find a therapist near you.