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Strictly Come Hamster - Series 2 (starring Si Hart & Mark Rawlins) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:35
  Welcome back to Strictly Come Hamster.
• 0:37
  My name is Joe Ford and as ever I can't be arsed to do any more
• 0:43
  of this introduction, so I'm to hand you straight over to my Co
• 0:47
  host, Mr. Rod Brown. Hello, Rod.
• 0:49
  Hello Joe. Good evening and good evening to
• 0:51
  our fantastic guests. So I thought we'd had enough of
• 0:54
  controversy after we did Jodi Series 12 and we did season 22.
• 0:59
  I thought we need something a bit calm, a bit more stay,
• 1:02
  something where everybody agrees.
• 1:04
  So we pick Series 2 with David Tanner because obviously
• 1:07
  everybody loves that, doesn't it?
• 1:09
  Oh my God, did we get some comments?
• 1:11
  I would say mixed Mixed. He said.
• 1:14
  Should we do comments? And I was like.
• 1:15
  Yeah, of course. Then they started flying in and
• 1:18
  he was like, oh fuck. Yeah, I wouldn't say they're all
• 1:22
  glowing. They're mixed, but to help us
• 1:25
  sort our ude from our absorber lofts, we've got two very
• 1:29
  special guests here today. They're going to help us decide
• 1:31
  which of our stories is going to lift that lucursion glitter
• 1:34
  ball. And usually we send them home to
• 1:36
  peas pottage if they don't. But today we're going to send
• 1:39
  them to a parallel earth from which they're absolutely never,
• 1:42
  ever, ever going to return. Are they Never.
• 1:46
  So let's say hello to our two guests.
• 1:49
  Let's start with Mark. Hello, it's great to be here.
• 1:54
  Hello, how are you? Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:57
  I have, yeah. I've enjoyed watching back
• 1:59
  series two. I've not actually seen it for
• 2:01
  quite a while, so it was very interesting coming back to some
• 2:05
  of these episodes. He's keeping his powder dry
• 2:08
  there. Just interesting.
• 2:09
  Even, I don't know, you know. Well, that's good.
• 2:12
  That's good. Keeps it fresh and Psy, I've
• 2:16
  always knew to the podcast. I know I've never been on this
• 2:19
  before. How exciting.
• 2:22
  You are now officially part of the ham fam.
• 2:24
  How does it feel? I've waited for this moment for
• 2:28
  so long. I excuse me, I refuse to make
• 2:31
  your page on the incoming hamster website any longer, for
• 2:35
  God's sake. Hello everyone.
• 2:42
  Mr. Seihart and Mr. Mark Rawlings are joining us, so we
• 2:45
  are in for a very long podcast today, so we apologize in
• 2:48
  advance. We're doing 10 episodes, which
• 2:50
  we've never braved 10 before. But obviously, as we usually do
• 2:54
  on Strictly before we get into the stories themselves, we just
• 2:56
  want to get a feel for what everybody thinks about the
• 2:59
  season as a whole. But rather than kind of go into
• 3:02
  too much detail, I'm just going to ask each of you to give me 3
• 3:05
  words that sum up your overall feeling about the season as a
• 3:08
  whole. SI is looking very concerned.
• 3:11
  So I'm going to start with you, Si.
• 3:13
  No one's been able to. Count for this, that's why.
• 3:15
  And no, absolutely. 3 words. 3 words.
• 3:19
  Confident love. Yeah.
• 3:25
  And interesting. Which you can take either way,
• 3:35
  Mark. OK, well, the three words that
• 3:38
  came to mind immediately, but smug?
• 3:43
  Oh Ouch. Mismatched and tragic.
• 3:48
  Oh, bit. Of a mixture there.
• 3:51
  OK, after sight said is 3 words I was going to say those 3 words
• 3:54
  describe you and actually now Mark said is those 3 words
• 3:57
  describe you so. So you better be careful.
• 4:02
  What word do you pick then, Joe? Smug and tragic.
• 4:04
  Yeah. Me.
• 4:09
  You go for it. OK, I am going to say assured
• 4:18
  but inconsistent and bitch fest. That's two words.
• 4:25
  That definitely describes you. I will, I will explain that.
• 4:30
  And I am going to go with RTD because I've I'm having that as
• 4:35
  a word now, family and fun. Hey, that's a that's a lot of
• 4:42
  very different words there. Yeah, I think there's going to
• 4:45
  be a bit of debate tonight. So before we get into round one,
• 4:49
  let's get some of the comments from our fabulous Ham Fam
• 4:54
  audience. Now we're going to do it
• 4:55
  slightly differently tonight in that our guests are going to
• 4:58
  read out the comments of the about the overall season.
• 5:00
  So let's start with Mark Rawlins.
• 5:05
  Hey, yes. So some of the comments that
• 5:07
  have come in, so we've got Dylan Reece, he says Doctor Who was
• 5:12
  back. And not only that, it was a
• 5:14
  huge, confident success. Being a fan at this time was
• 5:18
  like a fever dream. A fever dream.
• 5:22
  Wow. Yeah, he's a very old fella.
• 5:26
  Jones says weakest of RT DS initial seasons, a combination
• 5:31
  of being difficult second album and the next two seasons being
• 5:35
  so strong. It's not all bad, just not as
• 5:38
  brilliant as what surrounds it. OK, well, E, Tapolak says,
• 5:46
  stunningly dreadful while series.
• 5:49
  One was hardly. Perfect.
• 5:50
  The unearned smugness of the tenant rose pairing.
• 5:53
  The chemistry is non existent. Plus the hacked scripts were
• 5:56
  unbearable. Carried on watching for a few
• 5:59
  more years, but my enthusiasm never recovered.
• 6:02
  I have never heard any fun caught anything stunningly
• 6:06
  dreadful except me about Stephen Moffitt's work.
• 6:10
  What? Goes round, comes round, yeah,
• 6:13
  Daniel Rawnsley says. I adore series too.
• 6:17
  It's full of high camp, high emotion, kisses to the past, and
• 6:20
  possible possibly the best base Under Siege story ever.
• 6:26
  I'm also fully in the 10 rows love story camp precisely
• 6:30
  because it's mired in the arrogance, hubris, and slightly
• 6:34
  toxic dynamic of two attractive people who clearly love each
• 6:38
  other a little too much but are also fun and charming enough for
• 6:41
  you to come along for the ride. It all plays off beautifully in
• 6:44
  that gut wrenching, cataclysmic finale which delivers the
• 6:48
  ultimate punishment, not death, but solitude.
• 6:52
  It's. A bit dark.
• 6:54
  He's notice about these comments, you know, these
• 6:56
  overviews. It's like chalk and cheese.
• 6:59
  There's no two people that agree on anything, no.
• 7:01
  Very divisive, yeah. Well, I've got Paul Quinn and
• 7:05
  he's. Oh, you know, he's always going
• 7:06
  to be divisive. Here we go.
• 7:09
  Mostly a. Dog of a Season.
• 7:11
  A dog. Weak open up brainless second
• 7:17
  episode, Weird semi nonce 4th episode with tenants shocking
• 7:22
  fake drunk acting school. Reunion's good.
• 7:25
  Impossible Planet is tops, but Satan pit collapses and takes
• 7:28
  the rest of the season with it. That's.
• 7:30
  Clearly, he's loving him. Did he call the girl in the
• 7:34
  fireplace semi nonce? No, he called David Tennant in.
• 7:41
  Semi nonce. Well, I've got the lovely
• 7:43
  Stephen B who says millions of not.
• 7:45
  We still think, quite rightly, of this as Doctor Who at its
• 7:49
  zenith will they won't. They mixed in with family
• 7:53
  friendly laughs, scares and spectacles.
• 7:56
  RTD brings Doctor Who into the mainstream here in a way that
• 7:59
  surpasses series one and arguably Series 4 and Tennant
• 8:04
  and Piper. My God, if you can't admire
• 8:06
  their all time levels of TV chemistry then you've lost sight
• 8:10
  of what great telly is to people who aren't nerds like us, A
• 8:14
  triumph. I think he's got a point there
• 8:17
  that we're going to come to this quite a bit, this, this TV for
• 8:20
  nerds on us, because I think there is a big difference
• 8:23
  between TV for nerds and TV for non nerds and it will come to
• 8:27
  that. He wasn't so lovely, you know,
• 8:28
  when he was talking about season 22, which is coming out in a few
• 8:31
  weeks. Well, strap in, I've got Fraser
• 8:35
  Gregory here. How long is this podcast going
• 8:39
  to be right? Series 2 is excellent.
• 8:44
  It has a higher number of excellent episodes than any
• 8:47
  other RTD series, but sadly has a few clunkers too.
• 8:51
  Why is it not regarded higher? Probably because the 10th Doctor
• 8:55
  and Roses relationship, which is unbelievably cloying if watched
• 8:59
  in isolation but actually had a point and a purpose when taken
• 9:02
  as a whole along the length of the series.
• 9:06
  RTD is setting them up for a fall, and boy does he like to
• 9:09
  make his Doctor suffer. Tenant hits all the right notes
• 9:13
  in his first run out. He's effortlessly charming,
• 9:17
  energetic and likeable without any of the hair quivering
• 9:21
  baggage that will come to define his era.
• 9:24
  It's brilliant, apart from the blowjob paving slab that should
• 9:28
  be shot with shit. Should be shot with shit.
• 9:33
  It will come to no surprise to anybody at all that my opinion
• 9:40
  is actually the complete reverse of every single point that he
• 9:43
  made. There.
• 9:44
  Tennant at his most confident? No, he's not the best season of
• 9:49
  RTD. No, it ain't.
• 9:53
  Good old, Fraser. Yeah, Jason Thompson says US old
• 9:57
  guard know full well that Doctor Who can change its lead and
• 10:00
  carry on. But in 22,000 and Six, a
• 10:03
  production team fresh from the relief of finding that, yes,
• 10:06
  Doctor Who does work on prime time TV in the 21st century, now
• 10:10
  has to deal with the tension of whether a modern audience will
• 10:12
  accept regeneration and the change it brings.
• 10:16
  In this season, they were shown that that they would, and so
• 10:19
  Doctor Who's longevity in the new era was assured.
• 10:22
  Oh, he's very smart. Fabulous.
• 10:26
  So that takes us through to round one.
• 10:28
  So this is the round where we're going to start discussing the
• 10:31
  stories. We're obviously we've got a
• 10:33
  minimum of two stories each that we're going to discuss, and you
• 10:37
  have got to cajole and convince the rest of us that your views
• 10:40
  are completely right and accurate.
• 10:43
  So let us start with psy, psy, pick a story from the turn and
• 10:47
  tell us whether you're going to champion it or condemn it to a
• 10:50
  parallel word. He's rubbing his hands.
• 10:54
  Let's start big and let's go for Fear her.
• 11:00
  And I am going to champion and champion this story because I
• 11:05
  think it's a really bad rap, because I watch this at a really
• 11:13
  awful family wedding. And when I say awful, I mean
• 11:16
  really awful. But I took all the kids off for
• 11:20
  an hour to go and watch Doctor Who, and these were kids from
• 11:24
  age 4 to 12 and they absolutely loved it.
• 11:29
  So whatever we think one thing it got right was it got the kids
• 11:35
  can. I just say though, yeah, you did
• 11:37
  say the wedding was absolutely awful.
• 11:40
  Yes. So that might not be a good sort
• 11:42
  of way of. Saying fingers on lips, Joe.
• 11:46
  All right. Sorry.
• 11:49
  Secondly, it's got the greatest TARDIS landing gag that has ever
• 11:55
  been seen in Doctor Who and I think the episode is worthwhile
• 11:59
  just for that of it. Landing between two big boxes
• 12:02
  and they can't get out and have to re materialize again, I think
• 12:06
  that is absolutely brilliant. And thirdly, this is unexpected.
• 12:13
  I think this is Rose and the Doctor at their very best in
• 12:18
  this season. I think they are lovely together
• 12:20
  here. The chemistry between them is
• 12:22
  really, really good. Rose has to deal with losing the
• 12:26
  Doctor, which sets us up for the finale and she she has a moment
• 12:30
  of panic. What am I going to do without
• 12:32
  him? And then she grabs an axe and
• 12:34
  goes and smashes down a door and takes on the villain.
• 12:39
  You know we can say there are lots of problems with this
• 12:42
  episode. The girl who plays Chloe Webber
• 12:45
  is not brilliant, but watching it back for the first time in
• 12:49
  years, she was better than I remember.
• 12:52
  However, Hugh Edwards was worse than I remember.
• 12:55
  So you might be a great newscaster, but you're not
• 12:58
  necessarily a great actor and maybe you needed someone else to
• 13:01
  do this. So I'm just going to say be her.
• 13:05
  Not as bad as his reputation. And I said no.
• 13:09
  Sir, it's a. Controversial start?
• 13:12
  Should we go going to start high?
• 13:14
  Should we go to the comments and see if they all agree?
• 13:17
  Fraser Gregory, Mr. Controversy, He says.
• 13:20
  Nothing wrong with this one. It's perfectly decent.
• 13:23
  It's not spectacular. Look at domestic abuse, with
• 13:26
  Rose getting a share of the day. Saving.
• 13:28
  Not deserving of the criticism it gets.
• 13:31
  Keep it. Michael Storm says a
• 13:33
  run-of-the-mill episode that fails to live up to its
• 13:36
  potential. The fingers on lip scene is
• 13:38
  utter cringe and shows 10's decline into peeing Arnold
• 13:42
  Rimmer as he was in Red Wharf one and two.
• 13:45
  Dylan Reece said this was the one story of the season I
• 13:48
  watched with Non Who fans, and boy, was that a mistake.
• 13:51
  Bless him. Not a bad script, just badly
• 13:54
  executed. Might have made a better Sarah
• 13:57
  Jane adventure. Darren Lit, Randall says.
• 14:00
  I've always looked more favourably on Fear Her than
• 14:02
  everybody else. I think Rose and 10 are well
• 14:05
  characterized for once, the funny Tardis gag.
• 14:07
  So I I like the Doctor being in investigator mode, so that wins
• 14:11
  me over. Brendan Jones says, manages to
• 14:14
  feel mundane in execution and tackles difficult themes in a
• 14:18
  shallow way. Stephen B.
• 14:20
  Fear proves that there is still a flaw in every Persian rock and
• 14:24
  that even cathedrals have gargoyles.
• 14:27
  Still, there's always one line of genius comedy you you just
• 14:31
  took a council axe from a council van and now you're
• 14:34
  digging up a council Rd. Go on everybody.
• 14:37
  Say it. I'm reporting you to the.
• 14:39
  Council. Thank you.
• 14:41
  By the way, Joe, was that your Australian accent or was that a
• 14:44
  fucking rose accent? I'm lost, Jack Coyer said Rose
• 14:49
  Tyler's Horns of Nimon. Our companion must step up as
• 14:53
  the Doctor has been poorly sketched.
• 14:55
  See what he did that the 3D scribbles and the TARDIS were
• 14:58
  cool at the age of 10. Does any new new Who story aim
• 15:02
  at a younger audience? 2 problematic dads.
• 15:05
  This series, the white one, gets a redemption.
• 15:09
  Daniel Knight gives us one word. Meh.
• 15:13
  James H says I actually really like this one.
• 15:16
  I know I'm in the minority, but this is such a charming story
• 15:19
  that I can't help but enjoy it. He's as much of A contrary
• 15:23
  bugger as Fraser and Paul Quinn. John Bensalia says One word, I'm
• 15:27
  getting all the one word ones here and we'll finish with that.
• 15:30
  Whip it. Shit, That's two words.
• 15:33
  Right, He's put it as. 1. So, Mark, are you?
• 15:39
  Are you won over by Size? Wonderful praise for fear.
• 15:46
  Oh, I'm not. I'm sorry.
• 15:48
  I have this down as a as a reject of, I'm afraid, Chloe
• 15:54
  Webber. She's supposed to be this like,
• 15:56
  scary child, you know, scaring everybody, freaking everyone
• 16:02
  out. She's not.
• 16:03
  She's just some She's just a bad actress trying to remember her
• 16:07
  lines. Most of the time she doesn't
• 16:09
  have, I don't know, there's nothing about her that is.
• 16:14
  I think there's not any atmosphere in this story.
• 16:17
  It's sort of filmed quite flat. It's like directed quite flatly.
• 16:20
  It feels like a sort of a daytime soap.
• 16:23
  The scribble effect is cool, though.
• 16:26
  That is the one thing that I do like in this.
• 16:27
  When Rose opens the garage door and that thing comes out, that
• 16:31
  was I. Thought that is only three
• 16:32
  seconds of the episode though. Yeah, that, that is all that's
• 16:35
  going for it, I'm afraid. And the mum, she's she's doing
• 16:39
  her best and it's like the the actress playing the mum, she's
• 16:42
  doing her best, but just what she's given, it's just not, it's
• 16:45
  just quite flat, like one of Chloe Webber's drawings.
• 16:53
  It's 2 days. No it's no, it's on 1st watch as
• 16:56
  well. I just, I was like no, it just
• 16:58
  feels like a bit of a a filler episode of cheap end of season
• 17:02
  with just this just this is like a a stepping stone before we get
• 17:06
  to the finale. Just a bit of a breather and
• 17:09
  there's just nothing really going for it.
• 17:11
  So if that's a no, then from Mark Joe.
• 17:15
  Yeah, it's a note from me as well.
• 17:16
  And I hate to be predictable, but I have actually got us my
• 17:20
  first point. We haven't compared notes, I
• 17:22
  promise. But I did say flat direction for
• 17:25
  the most part. I think this is, this is EUR
• 17:27
  Lynn, isn't it? This is the guy that brought us
• 17:29
  go in the fireplace and tooth and claw.
• 17:31
  I mean, everyone has their off days, right?
• 17:35
  It is really dreary looking. I know what it felt like to me.
• 17:38
  I wrote down. It's like someone's gone to a
• 17:40
  house in the state for a school project and done a forming job.
• 17:43
  That's what it feels like. It's like there's no money at
• 17:45
  all. It's like, you know, what we
• 17:47
  would do if we took a iPhone round and filmed this thing.
• 17:51
  I don't think there's any chemistry at all between mother
• 17:54
  and daughter. And I think that's a really
• 17:55
  important relationship. It's supposed to be showing it
• 17:57
  to be dysfunctional and then coming together at the end.
• 18:00
  But it's clearly two actors that I've never met before in their
• 18:03
  life trying to struggle their way through this script.
• 18:05
  And like you said, Mark, the actress playing Chloe Webber.
• 18:08
  I mean, she could join the brews that are damned from the Moffett
• 18:11
  era, as far as I'm concerned. Imagine if she'd been in
• 18:14
  Poltergeist, for God's sakes. You know you need.
• 18:17
  Someone with that sort of bit more creepiness about them.
• 18:19
  A bit, yeah. Do you remember that a girl from
• 18:21
  Polar Guy, she'd be amazing in this Imagine, oh, they're up at
• 18:23
  the window. And my last point, and what I
• 18:27
  really don't like about this episode and this season as a
• 18:31
  whole, because it happens in Tooth and Claw as well, and it
• 18:35
  happens in The Idiot's Lantern, is there's this weird
• 18:39
  glorification of like Britain in this season, which maybe it's
• 18:45
  because I'm very cynical about Britain these days.
• 18:47
  You know, the Tories are in charge and we're all a bit
• 18:49
  embarrassed to be living here post Brexit.
• 18:52
  But this, the whole thing about the Olympics, it one, it makes
• 18:55
  me feel dated. But to all this, you know, feel
• 18:57
  the love and she blows the stone away and oh, it's just
• 19:02
  agonising. I know everyone did come
• 19:05
  together at the Olympics and it was an amazing event and all of
• 19:07
  that, but really, I think that's the last time we were proud to
• 19:09
  be in this country. So I don't know.
• 19:12
  Yeah, I think that's right. It feels cheap.
• 19:16
  There's a lot of good stuff in it.
• 19:17
  I'd like the Council guy. I think Rose is brilliant in
• 19:19
  this, like you said. So I but I I just think it yeah,
• 19:22
  it is the most mundane episode of the year and for that reason
• 19:27
  it's going. So it's going before it even
• 19:30
  gets to me. So I'm superfluous, but I'm
• 19:32
  still going to have my say. And I supported.
• 19:35
  Bear in mind I've supported Megalos.
• 19:37
  I've supported Time Lash but. And the timeless children?
• 19:41
  And the timeless children. But this is just a step too far.
• 19:46
  It's just no, it's shocking. It is.
• 19:49
  Too. Much.
• 19:50
  It's too the line has been crossed.
• 19:53
  First thing for me is the tone. RTD established the tone meeting
• 19:57
  where everyone comes together. All the production heads come
• 20:00
  together and agree on a tone. God knows what they were doing
• 20:03
  this day because there is just no consistency between the
• 20:06
  production. I think of 1 pivotal scene where
• 20:10
  Chloe is lying on the bed and the doctor's talking to the eye,
• 20:13
  soulless through her the serial atmosphere.
• 20:16
  In that scene, the sunlight is streaming through the windows
• 20:19
  which feels very odd. Murray's music.
• 20:21
  I love Murray Gold, but his music in that scene is so out of
• 20:25
  sync. It's light and frothy and
• 20:28
  because everything just feels disconnected, it should feel
• 20:31
  like you said before. It should feel quite dark and
• 20:33
  menacing and brooding. This is a pivotal scene.
• 20:35
  One thing, I'm going to pick a Stephen Moffitt episode, but one
• 20:38
  thing I think of Night Terrors, which is a similar.
• 20:41
  Don't you? I always use Night Terrors as a
• 20:44
  way of comparing to this. Well, I am going to because
• 20:46
  Night Terrors is dark and Moody. You think of the scenes in the
• 20:50
  boys bedroom. Everything's very, very dark,
• 20:53
  whereas here we've got sunlight shining in.
• 20:55
  It just feels very inconsequential.
• 20:58
  The other thing about the the tone is I don't think the
• 21:00
  abusive father line plot fits with the rest of what's going
• 21:05
  on. It just feels very tacked on.
• 21:07
  It feels like we need an issue in here guys, or a monster.
• 21:10
  We've had the scribble monster, which is good, but the abusive
• 21:13
  father just it's two on the nose.
• 21:16
  When he starts shouting I'm coming to get you.
• 21:19
  It feels like a fairy tale ogre. It doesn't feel like this is
• 21:23
  talking about domestic abuse, so it kind of minimises it a bit
• 21:27
  that for me and just feels too. It's too pointed.
• 21:30
  And you think about the terror in the previous episode where
• 21:33
  you've got the beast talking to Toby in in Toby's room.
• 21:36
  That's so chilling. And here you've got this God
• 21:39
  awful drawing of a father shouting I'm coming to get you
• 21:42
  ready or you should have added ready or not at the end of it.
• 21:45
  It's just horrible. So that's my first reason, The
• 21:48
  second reason I think there's so many waste opportunities here.
• 21:50
  At the beginning of it, you get the old lady who senses menace
• 21:54
  that doesn't go anywhere. That just stops.
• 21:56
  You think that's going to go somewhere?
• 21:57
  It doesn't. Isn't she brilliantly awful?
• 22:00
  I don't know who you are, sweetheart, but thank.
• 22:03
  You. Oh, she's terrible.
• 22:05
  Then you've got the neighbors and the council workers arguing,
• 22:08
  which is almost like a proto midnight because they're all
• 22:10
  blaming everybody else. And it has got that kind of
• 22:13
  slight midnight vibe to it. But again, that goes nowhere at
• 22:17
  all. And then obviously you've got
• 22:19
  the doctor being taken out of the story, so roses there to
• 22:23
  lead us through. But it just, again, it just
• 22:26
  falls flat. She just digs up the shed,
• 22:28
  throws it in the flame. That's the end of it.
• 22:29
  It's just very weak. And the biggest wasted
• 22:32
  opportunity for me is Nina Sosanya, who's the mother.
• 22:36
  I've always thought she's a brilliant actress.
• 22:38
  I would actually, I would have her down as a potential doctor.
• 22:41
  I think she's got something about her that she's got real
• 22:44
  star quality, but in here she's just totally, totally wasted.
• 22:48
  She looks bored. She does look bored.
• 22:50
  And then I've got a long list, which I won't bore you with, but
• 22:53
  I've got a long list of cringe factors.
• 22:55
  So we've got the Terry Nation school of naming.
• 22:58
  It's an isolated creature. We'll call it the Isolus.
• 23:04
  Oh, now I've realised that I want to put it through.
• 23:08
  There's some terrible acting in here.
• 23:10
  The fingers on the lip scene is just awful.
• 23:12
  The plot gaps. Chloe imprisons the doctrine,
• 23:15
  the TARDIS because she thinks they're going to stop.
• 23:17
  Her Rose stands, then tells her I'm going to stop you and she
• 23:20
  just lets her go. That's because it's convenient
• 23:23
  for the plot, the whole Hugh Edwards bill, like you said, Joe
• 23:26
  about to about love and hope and support.
• 23:28
  Or awful, although Hugh's been cancelled.
• 23:31
  Now you have no soul, Rod. And then Hugh Edwards talks
• 23:36
  about how terrible it is that everyone's gone from the
• 23:38
  stadium. And then the next minute he's
• 23:40
  talking about how wonderful the Olympics are.
• 23:42
  So what? And.
• 23:43
  The whole bit in the end is It's probably the.
• 23:46
  Deer of new who in it it's. Like Bobby?
• 23:49
  Bob, your back. Bob, Where are you, Bob?
• 23:52
  Oh no, we're without all hope. And then the flame, the flame
• 23:57
  carrier, comes forward. He collapses to the ground.
• 24:00
  Does the doctor look after him or care for him?
• 24:02
  No, He just picks up the flame and runs on.
• 24:04
  He can die. It's fine.
• 24:06
  I'm not my moment. Yeah, exactly.
• 24:09
  And then finally, I'm No, you shouldn't knock the production.
• 24:12
  But it's supposed to be Summer. And everyone's breath is
• 24:14
  showing. It's very clearly done.
• 24:17
  It's very, very cold even at the end, so for multiple reasons
• 24:22
  it's out of fear. You really thought about that
• 24:24
  one, didn't you? It was.
• 24:26
  Shocking there. Who is the 1st to go?
• 24:29
  What a surprise. Mr. Rawlings, we will come to
• 24:33
  you for your first choice. Hey, I'm going to, I'm just
• 24:37
  going to get this one out the way I am going to talk about
• 24:43
  school reunion to go. What?
• 24:49
  Sorry, we're supposed to keep up.
• 24:50
  Now to try out my. Please proceed.
• 24:54
  All right. Astonishing.
• 24:57
  OK, I realise. See Sarah Jane comes back.
• 25:00
  Us as fans, we love that and for non fans it's showing.
• 25:04
  You know what happens to companions that are left behind.
• 25:06
  It's the first time that this this occurs in in in the series.
• 25:12
  But putting all of that stuff aside and I love for Sarah Jane
• 25:15
  and and the nostalgia of that, what is the actual storyline
• 25:21
  here? The Krylitane stuff is just
• 25:26
  nothing really, is it? It's for the for the moment.
• 25:31
  You see Anthony head in the school, you know he's the bad
• 25:34
  guy. There's not much mystery going
• 25:36
  on there. The plot just keeps having to
• 25:39
  stop just for all these Sarah Jane moments and I I think there
• 25:43
  could have been a better cohesion of the this this
• 25:47
  storyline in the school, this adventures and the whole Sarah
• 25:50
  Jane stuff. Like the crueler times are
• 25:52
  flying around outside, outside the moon they he's got to fly
• 25:55
  outside. Why all the Sarah Jane stops
• 25:57
  happening and all the explanation.
• 25:59
  They're all waiting outside there and to the edge, crouching
• 26:01
  on that building waiting for their plot to start.
• 26:04
  Why we have all these lovely moments which are nice.
• 26:07
  And it is. It's great to see.
• 26:09
  But it's just I just think there should be a bit more to the
• 26:12
  story and it and it's over just like that.
• 26:16
  So yeah. I don't, I don't know.
• 26:18
  As I go back it's great. When I when I think about the
• 26:20
  story and I want to watch it, I'm like, yeah, it's great to
• 26:22
  see Sarah Jane. But actually what?
• 26:24
  Yeah. What is the story?
• 26:25
  What is this? It's you.
• 26:26
  You you're left with like 1/4 of a Sarah Jane adventure story
• 26:30
  maybe with all the Crillitane stuff.
• 26:32
  And I don't think the Crillitane is that great and I don't think
• 26:35
  the CGI has held up for them very much.
• 26:38
  So I'm sorry. It's not.
• 26:41
  It's not an outstanding story for me.
• 26:44
  Wow, did I just say Hugh Edwards was cancelled?
• 26:46
  I think this needs to be cancelled.
• 26:48
  I. Was just like that's an overall
• 26:50
  story. I just don't think it's.
• 26:53
  Did you notice how all three of us were staring at you blankly
• 26:56
  whilst you were saying all of that there in?
• 26:57
  A row bitching out and then they make up this.
• 27:00
  It just always has to stop for the, you know, I think that they
• 27:03
  they could have all been that and a a decent sort of story in
• 27:07
  the background as well. Interesting.
• 27:09
  I kind of get what you're saying because I've never thought about
• 27:11
  it that way before, so I know we're going to the comments, but
• 27:14
  how one plot does have to stop for another one to continue, how
• 27:17
  you do jump back and it's only right at the end that the two of
• 27:20
  them come together. Still fantastic though.
• 27:24
  Sorry. So Jason Thompson actually
• 27:26
  knocks back all of your comments there straight away because he
• 27:29
  knew exactly what you were going to say, and says This is by far
• 27:32
  my favorite. I've seen baffling criticism
• 27:36
  saying that if you take out all the stuff with Sarah Jane, the
• 27:38
  story is a boring Aliens want to rule the universe plot, but
• 27:41
  Sarah Jane is the story. It's about what happens to
• 27:45
  former companions. It's also about Rose discovering
• 27:48
  she's not the first. And what happens when you stop
• 27:50
  traveling with the Doctor? Stephen B also has something to
• 27:54
  say to you. Mark the plot isn't the point.
• 27:56
  It's all about the characters and giving them room to work
• 27:59
  through the emotions of travelling with the Doctor.
• 28:02
  There can't be a single one of you who prosecutes this and has
• 28:06
  a beating heart in their chest. It's kind of suspected.
• 28:12
  If I'm honest. It's like.
• 28:14
  This isn't it, Jack Coyer says. This brings Rose back home to
• 28:19
  find her life overtaken by Doctor Who's past a companion
• 28:22
  torn away from her Doctor Who struggles to make a new life for
• 28:25
  herself. I wonder where this is going.
• 28:28
  Elizabeth Sladen is fantastic as always.
• 28:31
  Luke Malloy. Says.
• 28:33
  Makes me feel like a kid. It's gloriously fun.
• 28:37
  And Dan Hollingsworth says the return of Sarah Jane still makes
• 28:40
  me a soppy get. Daniel Knight My favorite
• 28:44
  favorite Modern Who episode. Liz Sladen is brilliant in this
• 28:48
  bittersweet exploration of the relationship between Doctor and
• 28:51
  companion. Dylan Reese has a glorious
• 28:53
  reunion and great examination of the companion role.
• 28:56
  Oh, here he comes Fraser Gregory.
• 28:59
  Just for what it gives us nostalgia.
• 29:01
  A fresh start for an old favorite and the joy of having
• 29:03
  canine back, this story would ride high.
• 29:06
  Being a well paced fun story with a great villain just pushes
• 29:10
  it higher well. Thank you, Fraser, Lucy McCall
• 29:13
  says, an utter joy. Sarah Jane is back and better
• 29:16
  than ever, and she's brought canine with her.
• 29:18
  The romantic bickering gets a bit much, but on the other hand,
• 29:21
  it does give Rose the knowledge that others were before her.
• 29:24
  Anthony Head is fabulously evil, going from slimy and sinister to
• 29:28
  scenery chewing rage. The moment where he and the
• 29:31
  Doctor face off across the swimming pool made the hair
• 29:33
  stand up on the back of my neck. Canine is still a very good dog
• 29:38
  and Kenny has his moments of triumph and his reward for
• 29:41
  having missed the chips. Is Kenny the fat kid?
• 29:44
  He is. Oh, he's so annoying.
• 29:45
  He was. Kenny Someone that agrees with
• 29:51
  you. John Bensalia Flimsy tail.
• 29:54
  Anthony Head is given zilch to do while the roses.
• 29:56
  Petty jealousy makes this more of a chore than it should be.
• 30:00
  Michael Storm says a bit of a let down for me with Sarah Jane
• 30:03
  being reduced to having the emotional maturity of a SEC of a
• 30:06
  secondary school aged socialite girl.
• 30:10
  I feel this episode might have worked better with Eccleston as
• 30:13
  I could see his doctor being tempted by Finch.
• 30:16
  James HA Mediocre plot supported by the inclusion of schmaltz.
• 30:21
  Colin Hicks said with this blonde heroine angsting about
• 30:24
  the excess of her immortal love interest, the shlubby guy who
• 30:27
  still fancies her bemoaning his uselessness.
• 30:30
  In contrast, the rest of the team, the disguise monsters
• 30:33
  snacking on high school students and the smattering of teenage
• 30:36
  slang, this couldn't be a more obvious homie Buffy homage if
• 30:40
  Anthony Head was in it. Oh.
• 30:43
  And finally, Martin mate, Martin mate.
• 30:47
  Martin. Martin, mate.
• 30:49
  Hello. It's so delightful to see
• 30:51
  Elizabeth Slayton back, and I can almost look beyond the
• 30:53
  horrific way they treat Sarah. She had a life outside her
• 30:57
  adventures with the Doctor. She was not in love with him.
• 31:01
  So Mark has had his say, right or wrong?
• 31:05
  Wrong. So shall we go and see what our
• 31:08
  others say? Sigh, I feel you're chomping at
• 31:11
  the bit. This story made me love Sarah
• 31:15
  Jane Smith, who I did not rate before I saw this.
• 31:19
  So there, so that. Is love it?
• 31:24
  Obviously, for those who don't know, Canine was back.
• 31:27
  And he was. Brilliant and wonderful and made
• 31:30
  me cry when he blew up and then made me cry when New Canine
• 31:34
  turned up at the end. I would just say the scene where
• 31:40
  Sarah Jane sees the Doctor for the first time in the staff
• 31:44
  room, I think is one of the most wonderful and brilliant scenes
• 31:49
  because the Doctor is on the back foot and Sarah Jane is in
• 31:53
  control there and she doesn't know it's him, but he knows it's
• 31:57
  her and he is completely flummoxed by that.
• 32:00
  And I absolutely love that from her breathy hello right through
• 32:05
  to the oh, you're new then and all of that.
• 32:08
  She is a delight all the way through this.
• 32:11
  And I think that's a better scene than when she works out.
• 32:13
  It's the Doctor. Well, sorry, then.
• 32:15
  It turns on a dime, doesn't it? Because then he's in control of
• 32:18
  the situation and she's flummoxed.
• 32:20
  So as a mirror, that works quite well.
• 32:22
  Definitely. And as Lucy pointed out, the
• 32:27
  scene across the swimming pool with Anthony Stewart Head.
• 32:29
  Anthony Stewart Head shows how he knows exactly how to play
• 32:34
  this role and this script, and he does it beautifully.
• 32:37
  I think it's a triumph. It's my favorite episode of the
• 32:41
  new series and one of my. Ever.
• 32:44
  My fake Yep. I love it to pieces, but all the
• 32:46
  things it did and for making me sob at Sarah Jane Smith, I never
• 32:51
  thought I would see the day. So Yep.
• 32:55
  You know when when all the people with like, flaming
• 32:57
  brassieres come after Mark, will you be right there at the front?
• 33:01
  No, Mark's entitled to his opinion.
• 33:03
  He could, he could just be wrong on 1st watch.
• 33:06
  Yeah, you get all of that. But I think if you'd like, oh, I
• 33:08
  want to watch it on 2 Adventure Story.
• 33:11
  I don't know, it's just on rewatch.
• 33:13
  I just don't think it that you need a bit more to it.
• 33:16
  I think it is solved by pulling out a plug, which is pretty poor
• 33:21
  and I mean. That health and safety, all
• 33:23
  those plugs. Plugged into that one extension,
• 33:26
  I don't know what the school risk assessments were like, but
• 33:29
  this is a school run by aliens, so that's true.
• 33:31
  I think it's out of the window. They just deeply.
• 33:34
  Inspector Yeah, Joe. Oh.
• 33:39
  I love it. I love this episode so much I
• 33:41
  it's one of the few Doctor episodes that makes me cry, and
• 33:44
  it brought me to tears even watching it this time.
• 33:46
  And I know what's coming. One of the things I was going to
• 33:49
  say if we were going to talk extendedly about the season as a
• 33:52
  whole is Rose Tyler being a total cunt, which I is my
• 33:58
  favorite thing about this season by an absolute mile, because so
• 34:02
  many companions are so nice all the time.
• 34:05
  Aren't they? Nicely nice.
• 34:06
  I don't know anyone like that. I'm looking at three people now
• 34:10
  and you know, you're lovely people, but you could all be
• 34:12
  total cunts as well. We're flawed.
• 34:13
  We're we're we've got more debts was than that you know Ross
• 34:18
  Waldstone exist in the real Oh no, actually she's a bit of a
• 34:20
  cunt as well to be honest. That's a bad.
• 34:23
  Example I know, but she's she is petty and jealous and angry and
• 34:28
  all those things that we genuinely feel in real life.
• 34:30
  And it's far more interesting watching somebody going on these
• 34:33
  adventures, going through that stuff than it is someone just
• 34:36
  going but she doesn't knew where oh I love you, oh, going around
• 34:40
  the universe with you is the best thing ever.
• 34:42
  That is just so in comparison all of this.
• 34:44
  You know, I met the Emperor, the Long, this monster, all of this
• 34:49
  bitchiness that's going on in this episode is wild.
• 34:52
  I love it. Go inside.
• 34:55
  You want to say something? No, no, no.
• 34:56
  I think you're absolutely right. I think that's a brilliant
• 34:59
  reaction and not the one you'd expect.
• 35:01
  Whereas usually we have, like, the Five doctors.
• 35:04
  Oh, hello. I'm Tegan.
• 35:05
  Hello. I'm Sarah.
• 35:07
  I mean, have you? Been through all this, but to
• 35:10
  have someone who is jealous and doesn't understand and can't get
• 35:14
  a handle on this is really, really great.
• 35:17
  People find it annoying. I think it's hilarious, that
• 35:20
  whole bit where you know, where Sarah goes.
• 35:22
  Hi, I'm Sarah. I love that and you, tiger.
• 35:27
  Even although Mark doesn't like it at all.
• 35:28
  But the bit at the end is the bit.
• 35:30
  Do you remember? We watched?
• 35:31
  I was laughing my head off. Where Mickey goes, can I come?
• 35:34
  And Rose goes, Yeah, fine, whatever you are.
• 35:39
  You are such a cow, honestly. Oh, I love it.
• 35:42
  So. So Rose in this episode is one
• 35:44
  of my highlights. I didn't want to sort of go the
• 35:46
  obvious for it and say, Sarah, I actually think Rose goes on a
• 35:48
  bit of a journey here. And then the scene where they do
• 35:51
  compare Doctor Who monsters that they've met, which is the
• 35:54
  funniest way of doing this sort of soapy angst within a Doctor
• 35:57
  Who episode. And then them coming together
• 35:59
  and laughing and then being a team from that point on.
• 36:02
  I love it all. Anthony Head.
• 36:04
  It's my second reason, possibly the definitive Doctor Who
• 36:08
  villain performance. I mean, just that first scene
• 36:10
  where it goes to the little girl, you know, Oh you poor
• 36:13
  orphan child. No one to go home to come into
• 36:17
  my office. He knows exactly what he's
• 36:20
  playing. You know the book bit that.
• 36:22
  So I talked about around the pool, the time laws, ancient
• 36:26
  dusty senators. He just knows what he's and then
• 36:29
  he gets to bare his teeth at the end and he gets the great lines
• 36:32
  about, you know, you back dog and all of this.
• 36:35
  It's a brilliant, brilliant performance.
• 36:38
  And sorry, Mark, I I completely disagree about the Guerrilla
• 36:41
  Sayings. I think the CGI holds up
• 36:44
  extremely well. I think it's because there's a
• 36:47
  lot of movement and they're sort of flying about.
• 36:49
  So you don't have a lot of time to look at the actual CGI
• 36:53
  rendering itself because there's so much going on and it's it's
• 36:56
  kind of fluid and the camera work works with it.
• 36:59
  And I like the idea of a race that cherry picks the best of
• 37:03
  other races and absorbs it into themselves and and then moves on
• 37:08
  to the next race. I just think that's a really
• 37:09
  interesting idea. So I haven't even mentioned
• 37:12
  Sarah Jane. The brilliant production values,
• 37:15
  the great jokes in this, the awesome score, the bit where
• 37:18
  Sarah talks about love and loss, which means even more to us now.
• 37:22
  Now we've lost Sarah Jane and that heart wrenching ending
• 37:25
  outside the TARDIS where she finally gets the goodbye from
• 37:28
  him. I just think it's nearly
• 37:29
  flawless. So yeah, it's going through.
• 37:32
  And I am also absolutely, 100% putting this through.
• 37:36
  I am going to be predictable, Joe, and I am going to put my
• 37:39
  first reason as being Elizabeth Sladen, because Sarah Jane was
• 37:42
  my companion. So I was 8 when she came to the
• 37:44
  show and my God, I just loved Elizabeth Sladen with every inch
• 37:48
  of my being. And it was just wonderful to
• 37:51
  have her back. And yes, we'd had canine and
• 37:52
  company, which was a bit mare. We'd had The Five Doctors, which
• 37:56
  wasn't really Sarah, and when it was announced that she was
• 37:59
  coming back in like Elizabeth Slade, I thought, God, is it
• 38:01
  just going to be a cameo? But it's not.
• 38:03
  She's absolutely there, front and centre in the episode and
• 38:07
  she is magnificent. She absolutely rises to the
• 38:09
  occasion. I know we haven't got to it yet,
• 38:12
  but there are discussions to be had about how well Janet
• 38:15
  Fielding and Sophie Aldridge fit into modern Doctor Who, but
• 38:20
  Elizabeth Slaydon absolutely fitted in perfectly.
• 38:24
  She is. She's just warm.
• 38:25
  She's there's no wonder she was given her own series.
• 38:28
  She's warm, She's engaging. She just got so much humanity.
• 38:32
  She's a beautiful actress. So yeah, Elizabeth Slaine
• 38:36
  absolutely is my number one reason for being in there.
• 38:38
  I like you. I like that bit of spikiness
• 38:40
  that she's got with Rose. I think that works perfectly
• 38:42
  well. She constantly talks about the
• 38:44
  fact I've got old and she realizes, well, I think RTD does
• 38:48
  really well here because those opening scenes feel a bit like a
• 38:51
  Mirror of the Time Warrior. Because she's investigating as
• 38:53
  normal. You don't get any sense the
• 38:55
  times gone by. But as soon as she meets the
• 38:57
  Doctor, the first thing she says is I've got old and she realizes
• 39:01
  the time has gone past. And then all the conversations
• 39:03
  with Rose, they're all very snarky, but they're all about
• 39:06
  her age because she, you know, she's looking at this younger
• 39:08
  replacement for her. I'm feeling her age and I think
• 39:11
  that's done really well. They resolve it, I think just
• 39:15
  about the right time. It doesn't go on too long and
• 39:18
  and then they become a gang and as you say David Tennant then
• 39:20
  takes Sarah's hand as they run out of the school and I'm
• 39:23
  already in tears by that point. My Sarah Jane scene at the end
• 39:28
  I've. Actually not watched this.
• 39:30
  I've not watched this for quite a few years, purposefully,
• 39:33
  because that last scene, it just absolutely kills me because
• 39:36
  Sarah Jane meant so much to me growing up that that when he
• 39:40
  said myself I'm off now in a minute by Sarah Jane and he
• 39:43
  asked to say and she wants him to say goodbye to her.
• 39:46
  It's just. It's just so.
• 39:47
  Beautiful. You know, Rod, what gets me is
• 39:49
  the bit where she goes. Oh, he replaced you with a brand
• 39:52
  new model model. Does that look?
• 39:56
  At him, heartless soul in the. Corner.
• 39:59
  He is walking up into the sunsets.
• 40:01
  Tonight. Oh, with canine.
• 40:03
  Perfect. Yeah.
• 40:04
  And let's yeah, a big shout out for K92, John Leeson's back.
• 40:08
  We haven't done a horrible redesign like the Australian TV
• 40:11
  show. We've got proper canine back.
• 40:14
  Sorry Psy, I did hear you and I hear you supporting it, but it's
• 40:20
  shit. This is proper canine.
• 40:24
  He's back. It's John Leeson and he's
• 40:27
  wonderful and he sacrifices himself.
• 40:29
  Noble self sacrifice, blows himself up for the doctor.
• 40:33
  What more can you want? And it that's Mickey.
• 40:35
  Realise that he's the tin dog and I think that's great.
• 40:38
  Like you say the Crillitane. I think I I'd also agree with
• 40:40
  that. I think there are very
• 40:41
  interesting races, a lot more to do with them.
• 40:44
  I love when Finch offers the Doctor.
• 40:46
  He says either you can change all the laws of the universe and
• 40:49
  he says you act, you act like such a radical, yet all you want
• 40:53
  to do is preserve the old order. I thought it was a really
• 40:56
  interesting line about the Doctor's morality.
• 40:58
  And then ultimately, if Sarah, who rejects that and says, you
• 41:00
  know, we've all got to move on, we've got to accept pain and
• 41:03
  loss and grief and yeah, it's just really moving, How could
• 41:07
  anyone not want to put this through?
• 41:11
  It's shocking to me. It is not good, anyone, anyone
• 41:14
  to put this through. It is absolutely one. 100 He's
• 41:18
  unrepentant as well, yeah. When Sarah Jane and Gaynor are
• 41:22
  walking off into the distance, I don't want to ruin it for
• 41:24
  anyone, but if you look at top right, there's someone in their
• 41:26
  garden looking over going, oh, there's Doctor, he being filmed.
• 41:28
  Down there, there's. Someone.
• 41:31
  In the corner. No, they're looking down
• 41:33
  thinking, who's that strange woman?
• 41:34
  And that's him. I want one.
• 41:38
  You know. Hearing strains of canine and
• 41:41
  company theme coming through, right.
• 41:45
  So that is definitely going through.
• 41:47
  So Mark fortunately has been defeated.
• 41:50
  Joe, we come to you for your. First, you knew that was coming
• 41:53
  though, right? Oh, I know.
• 41:57
  Oh yeah, is it me? It is you, Joe.
• 42:00
  Why were you all choosing ones we want to kick out?
• 42:02
  Let's see, this is the third one on the trot now.
• 42:04
  No, I want to keep mine. Oh yeah, you did.
• 42:07
  I'm so. Sorry, sorry.
• 42:09
  I'm sorry my brain rejected the fact that you wanted to keep
• 42:12
  fear her because. It's just so unbelievable.
• 42:16
  I would like to dispose of the idiots Lantern please.
• 42:22
  A mid series episode, which I do think does have a lot going for
• 42:27
  it. I think there is some nice
• 42:29
  direction from EUR Lin. I think it's got a great
• 42:31
  Marigold score and I think that Rose, for as much as she
• 42:37
  contributes to the episode, I don't think Billy Father puts
• 42:39
  her foot wrong this year. I think Rose is great in this
• 42:41
  episode. I do think it has a very
• 42:45
  confused tone. This story, what you were
• 42:47
  talking about earlier about the tone meeting, you literally go
• 42:50
  from like a domestic drama in the House of the Connelly, see
• 42:54
  like a spy thriller which is all this stuff going around the
• 42:57
  streets chasing after the thing to a horror which is all these
• 43:00
  blank faced people going around to this crazy sort of science
• 43:03
  fiction ending, going up the tower at the end and The Wire
• 43:07
  and the episode just doesn't know what it wants to do.
• 43:09
  It's like Mark Gates wants to tell every fucking Doctor Who
• 43:11
  story he possibly can, just in case the series is cancelled at
• 43:14
  the end of the season and it's a bit much.
• 43:16
  I kind of think all the individual elements work, but
• 43:19
  you jam them all into one story and I'm like, what am I
• 43:22
  watching? I do like a consistency of tone,
• 43:26
  another romanticized view. And this time of the British
• 43:29
  Empire, I think there's some Tell me pretty dodgy going on
• 43:33
  with Mark Gatiss and the British Empire.
• 43:34
  Go watch Victory of the Daleks as well.
• 43:36
  He's got this very romanticized vision of Britain in the past,
• 43:40
  which is, if you look into it, a bit dodgier than perhaps he's
• 43:44
  suggesting. So it does that.
• 43:46
  All of that makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
• 43:48
  And I'm not not proud to be British before I say that, but I
• 43:51
  just think this sort of glowing view of Britain as being a
• 43:55
  flawless society, it sits uneasy with me.
• 43:59
  This is David Tennant's weakest performance of the season.
• 44:01
  I think the sequence where he gets up and goes and.
• 44:04
  I'm not. Listening.
• 44:07
  All of that stuff is stopped a lot.
• 44:09
  He's really feeling his way into the part here and seeing how far
• 44:12
  he can go. Unfortunately, nobody's saying
• 44:15
  don't go that far. Someone should be pulling him
• 44:17
  back a little bit and there are several moments in this episode
• 44:21
  where I was just sort of holding up a cushion going, oh God, even
• 44:25
  Matt Smith wouldn't do it this badly.
• 44:29
  And a bonus reason is, I think it's the first of many and I
• 44:33
  don't think they ever work. It doesn't work here.
• 44:36
  It doesn't work in Daleks Tank, Manhattan.
• 44:38
  It doesn't work in the Vampires of Venice, these climaxes where
• 44:42
  someone just ascends a tower as electric bolts are flying
• 44:46
  everywhere and you do a little bit of tech, the Babble with a
• 44:49
  spanner and that's the end of the story.
• 44:51
  And it's going for scale, but they don't really have the
• 44:54
  production value to pull it off because it just looks like
• 44:56
  dreadful CGI. So it just feels really
• 44:58
  rainless. So yeah, there's some good stuff
• 45:01
  in here, but I think as a whole it's it's not very sure about
• 45:04
  what it's doing. So that's why I would get rid of
• 45:08
  it. There's a lot of episodes in
• 45:09
  this season that are definitively sure about what
• 45:13
  they're doing, like tooth and claw, like go in the fireplace.
• 45:15
  This is 1 where I think it's a bit all over the place.
• 45:19
  It's a bit muddled. OK, so let's go to the comments.
• 45:22
  Stephen B says dear old Mark Gatis, delve into Britain's
• 45:26
  cultural history to bring us a television story about the first
• 45:30
  great televisual events in the UK, The Coronation and examining
• 45:34
  tropes regarding the early concerns of TV's effects and
• 45:37
  family structures in Post War Britain Lovely.
• 45:40
  Well, of course it's got those things in it as well, which are
• 45:42
  marvellous. But Dylan Reece says just when I
• 45:45
  thought it couldn't get any better, a big slice of classic
• 45:47
  style. Who in the middle of this
• 45:49
  reboot? RTD once said if Doctor Who came
• 45:51
  back for one night only and it was this, it will be hailed as a
• 45:54
  classic. And I stand by this.
• 45:56
  Now, if that was the case, if this was the only episode of
• 45:59
  Doctor Who we got in the 2000s, I'll be like, wow, they're doing
• 46:02
  every type of Doctor Who story in one episode just so we can
• 46:05
  have a whole season. But that's not the case.
• 46:08
  Jack Coyer says the Doctor gets put in our position.
• 46:11
  Rose Tyler is in trouble and he can't reach through the
• 46:13
  television screen to help her. The dad is forgiven far too
• 46:17
  easily. Daniel Knight Bit dull, but
• 46:19
  Maureen Lipman as great as The Wire.
• 46:22
  John Benzalia says again. Neat premise, but the execution
• 46:25
  lets it down big style. Corny lines grapple with another
• 46:28
  hami Badi. Worst offenders of the Doctor
• 46:30
  and Rose who reach insufferable levels of Smug should be having
• 46:34
  a drinking game for every time the word smug is mentioned.
• 46:37
  Tenant seriously lets the side down here with Stephen Thorne
• 46:40
  levels of Bellowing awful. Fraser Gregory, of course.
• 46:45
  He got love it in here after everything I said.
• 46:47
  Some great period drama. Always good to see a bully put
• 46:50
  in their place And The Wire is electric.
• 46:53
  A story that really should work somehow doesn't.
• 46:56
  Probably because of the because of Rose and the Doctor.
• 46:59
  Been it? Michael Storm says another
• 47:03
  average episode with the actor who plays the Dart has evidently
• 47:06
  had Roger Lloyd Pack coach his performance, plus they
• 47:09
  completely ignore how 1950s morality worked.
• 47:12
  The wife wouldn't kick him out due to the unfair stigma she
• 47:15
  would receive despite him being a bully and overall piece of
• 47:18
  shit. Some of his behaviour could be
• 47:20
  explained by the weird events going on triggering World War 2
• 47:23
  related trauma and PTSD, such as him reporting victims to the
• 47:27
  police, but overall he's an utter twat.
• 47:30
  Finally, James H The best sapphire and steel story the
• 47:33
  show has ever done up to this point.
• 47:37
  OK, so I'm going to respond first on this one.
• 47:40
  And I disagree with you, Joe. I think this.
• 47:43
  Is. I thought you said earlier,
• 47:46
  people are never wrong with their opinions.
• 47:48
  You are the exception. Thank you.
• 47:51
  I like to be different. I like this episode.
• 47:54
  It's not the greatest episode, but I think it's got a lot to
• 47:56
  defend that. So the first reason will be it's
• 47:59
  a large scale plot, but we are focusing on the domestic.
• 48:01
  I think the Doctor and Rose mentioned twice they're taking
• 48:04
  the domestic approach and we are doing that.
• 48:06
  We're seeing a family in 1953. Joe, you're saying it.
• 48:09
  It kind of eulogizes the British Empire, but I think here it's a
• 48:14
  bit more justified because people in 1953 did behave like
• 48:17
  this. They were all sat around their
• 48:19
  TV, sat in their Sunday best and waving their flags.
• 48:23
  That's what's what Britain was at that time.
• 48:25
  So I think this episode is more reflective of what was actually
• 48:29
  happening in Britain. And I think that family thing
• 48:32
  and the domestic approaches is shown best by the Connellys, who
• 48:36
  in a way almost mirror the Tilers, the way they're all sat
• 48:39
  round the TV. It very much reminds me of the
• 48:41
  Tilers in series one, where we see obviously Jackie holding
• 48:45
  quarter home with all the friends and neighbours sat
• 48:47
  round. And when Eddie's gone, Rita does
• 48:49
  exactly the same, she says to everyone at the end, oh,
• 48:51
  everyone all right for pop. And I can almost hear Jackie
• 48:53
  saying that line. It's got that same kind of
• 48:56
  domestic feel. There's no subtlety to Eddie at
• 49:00
  all. He's like, he's like a cartoon
• 49:02
  character. So those things sink because
• 49:04
  he's not scary, he's just ridiculous.
• 49:07
  Yeah, yeah. He's not, it's not a great
• 49:08
  performance. But talking of Eddie, I mean, he
• 49:12
  is written as a man of his time. You know, he believes that women
• 49:15
  should do the housework. He believes that, you know, he
• 49:18
  should run the house as he sees fit.
• 49:20
  He's very much of that 1950s ilk.
• 49:23
  And he is a bully. Yeah, we we see clearly that's a
• 49:25
  bully. His wife is afraid of him.
• 49:27
  He despises his son. He's made very clear that Tommy
• 49:29
  is gay and Eddie hates that. I mean, he says.
• 49:32
  When do they say Tommy's gay? He says you're a proper little
• 49:36
  mummy's boy and the aunt says, you know what they say about
• 49:39
  them, you want to beat that out of him.
• 49:42
  So it's very clear that Tommy is gay.
• 49:43
  I. Didn't get that at all.
• 49:46
  I'm usually well on board for those sort of things.
• 49:49
  You're gay. You're gay.
• 49:50
  Darlet. You down, Joe?
• 49:51
  I believe we were all called mummy's boys at one point, you
• 49:54
  know, all four of us. Probably, but I think it's very
• 49:58
  clear. And then he describes Rita's
• 50:00
  mother as filthy disgusting thing.
• 50:02
  Eddie has got this thing about people who are not of the norm,
• 50:06
  who are not sticking to his worldview.
• 50:08
  Tommy. Is that because Tommy is gay and
• 50:11
  obviously the mother is because she's had her face taken off.
• 50:14
  And I think it's great positive message that the doctor adopts
• 50:17
  Tommy as kind of pseudo companion for the story and
• 50:20
  ultimately it's Tommy that saves the day.
• 50:22
  So I think that's giving a nice positive message And there's a
• 50:25
  lot of criticism. We had it some some of the
• 50:27
  criticism by the comments there about people talking about the
• 50:29
  final scene forgiving the father.
• 50:32
  I don't think anyone forgives the father.
• 50:34
  Rose just encourages Tommy to go and talk to him.
• 50:37
  She's lost her father. So she's just saying go and talk
• 50:41
  to him. He is still your father.
• 50:42
  See if you can kind of find a middle way that you can go
• 50:45
  forward. So I think that's perfectly,
• 50:47
  perfectly acceptable. So that's my first reason.
• 50:50
  I love all that domestic stuff. I think it works very well.
• 50:53
  I think it's a good threat. I think Maureen Lipman
• 50:55
  absolutely camps it up wonderfully.
• 50:57
  I think she gives a great OTT performance her hungry.
• 51:01
  There's lots of stuff in this series that's written for the
• 51:04
  playground like it was back in our day, and the bellowing
• 51:07
  hungry of The Wire is definitely one of those playground things
• 51:10
  you can imagine. The removal of faces doesn't
• 51:12
  make an awful lot of sense, but it makes great action figure
• 51:15
  because I'm sure we all had our Grandma Connolly with her face.
• 51:18
  Missing. We all.
• 51:21
  Have you got that one, Mark? Yeah.
• 51:23
  Oh, there. We go.
• 51:25
  Part of the old People of Doctor Who collection.
• 51:29
  It's not there. We've destroyed Cassandra, isn't
• 51:31
  it? So I like the threat and finally
• 51:34
  I think the production's good here.
• 51:36
  I like the Dutch angles used throughout the story, make it
• 51:38
  very distinctive. Good period feeling, good period
• 51:41
  dressing. It's bright, breezy, colourful
• 51:44
  and sandwich where it is between two much dark stories.
• 51:47
  I think it works really well. So for me, it's definitely going
• 51:50
  through. How do you throw it over to our
• 51:52
  guests? Can I just count at one point?
• 51:53
  Because have you ever seen the Taylor's dummy, the Jonathan
• 51:56
  Creek episode? Probably.
• 51:58
  Maureen Lipman plays the villain in that right?
• 52:01
  And it's not revealed until the end.
• 52:03
  And she's completely Gaga, right?
• 52:05
  She has a wonderful liar where they're all looking at her
• 52:07
  because she's just talked about murdering a load of people and
• 52:10
  she's like, why are you all looking at me as if I'm mad and
• 52:14
  she's great in it. I think she's wasted in this.
• 52:17
  I don't I I feel like, yeah, it's camp and she's having fun
• 52:20
  with it, but it isn't a substantial role.
• 52:22
  She is just in that telly spitting out the old camp line,
• 52:26
  whereas I just want to see her get something she she's such a
• 52:29
  good actress. She could have taken hold of her
• 52:31
  big juicy villain role and and ran with it, I know.
• 52:34
  What you mean? But I do love her at the
• 52:35
  beginning when she's speaking in that very clipped 1950s.
• 52:38
  Now come along children. I think she does that really
• 52:41
  well. And when she uses.
• 52:42
  To my pie. Oh, Mad Pie.
• 52:44
  Great. You see, you're loving it.
• 52:49
  Let's go to Mark. Mark.
• 52:52
  Yeah, this isn't a favorite of mine, unfortunately.
• 52:55
  Who? Invited him.
• 52:57
  But you've got, you've got these two elements.
• 52:59
  I mean, you've got Tommy and his dad and Mori Lipman in a box.
• 53:02
  Basically these two. Before her time.
• 53:05
  These two things, but it's a great concept.
• 53:10
  The this everyday item, the TV going into the everyone's living
• 53:13
  room and this alien thing, it's that it's called that perk.
• 53:16
  We vibe to it the everyday in in everybody's house and some alien
• 53:20
  thing but it just doesn't come together with me.
• 53:22
  I don't the I've written down about the the dad's performance
• 53:27
  as well just like a one note oath.
• 53:30
  There's no no oath. I I think it could have been
• 53:34
  played with a with a, you know on a few more different levels
• 53:37
  there. And I I just really don't like
• 53:39
  when the Doctor and Rose start, you know, they chastise him but
• 53:42
  they just come across as sort of.
• 53:44
  Being bullies. Just look just like him, really.
• 53:46
  They don't what? It's not a heroic moment, It's
• 53:49
  not a what. What is the point of that?
• 53:52
  It just feels really uncomfortable.
• 53:53
  Their their behaviour. If someone walks into your house
• 53:57
  and started telling you you have to put up decorations and all of
• 54:00
  this, I'll be like, will you fuck off out of my house,
• 54:03
  please? Yeah, I just don't like that.
• 54:06
  And yeah, I also put yeah, there's too much time just
• 54:09
  climbing up a tower at the end it it just doesn't come together
• 54:14
  as a cohesive episode for me. So sorry, you've got the casting
• 54:19
  vote. I'm keeping it in because I
• 54:22
  actually quite like this one. I don't think it's perfect, but
• 54:26
  it's one that I always enjoy going back to because I think
• 54:30
  Maureen Lipman is absolutely superb.
• 54:32
  I think although she doesn't ever come out of the TV, she is
• 54:37
  still full of menace and still a dangerous fret, and I think that
• 54:41
  takes some skill to do. And the fact that we've got a
• 54:44
  villain who's on TV, on TV, it's a really lovely meta image and I
• 54:49
  really love that. So I imagine if she imagine if
• 54:52
  she crawled out the TV like the grudge.
• 54:58
  Always thinking I I always hoped it'd be like Evil Edna from
• 55:01
  Willow the Wist and the TV would start moving and she'd start
• 55:04
  feeding in. Remember when Freddy Krueger his
• 55:08
  arms, all that case. See, this is the difference
• 55:11
  between us. You go for Nightmare on Elm
• 55:13
  Street. I go for early age of.
• 55:15
  Wist you're far too nice for your own.
• 55:19
  Also, I'm going to say someone we haven't mentioned.
• 55:22
  I think Ron Cook as Mr. Magpie is absolutely excellent and
• 55:26
  particularly he is so good at the world weariness.
• 55:30
  He is really brilliant and it's a really great performance.
• 55:34
  I really like him. And OK, I always laugh when I'm
• 55:40
  the the bewildered security guard just shouts out Your
• 55:43
  Majesty, come back. It's not safe.
• 55:47
  I love things like that. So just for that reason, I think
• 55:50
  that's also so also good. So yeah, I'd keep it in I It's
• 55:54
  not Mark Gates's best script, but it's far from his worst.
• 55:58
  That's for sure. Yeah.
• 55:59
  So I only think. That's.
• 56:00
  So bad, So Idiot Lantern stays. So it's my time.
• 56:06
  So I am going to pick what I would say is one of the all time
• 56:10
  classics of Doctor Who. It's absolutely one of my
• 56:13
  favorite. It's up there in the top 10 for
• 56:15
  me. If you say New Earth, we're part
• 56:18
  in Wales. Now it's New Earth.
• 56:22
  No, it's not. It is of course Love and
• 56:28
  monsters, which I think is an absolutely classic slice of
• 56:36
  Doctor Who. So going to.
• 56:38
  Say go in a fireplace. I knew you, I would wait for you
• 56:41
  to jump in and say that no love and monsters.
• 56:44
  So firstly, I'm six the back teeth of people criticizing and
• 56:48
  saying oh it's not Doctor Who, this is absolutely Doctor Who
• 56:51
  through and through. This is Doctor Who, both
• 56:54
  fictionally and non fictionally. So obviously this is our first
• 56:58
  Doctor Light episode that we've had in the new series, not
• 57:01
  including the black and white days when actually Trout or
• 57:04
  William Martin will go off on holiday for a couple of weeks
• 57:06
  and come back with some time. This is our first proper Doctor
• 57:09
  Light, but the character of the Doctor is absolutely fundamental
• 57:13
  to this story. So even though we're telling a
• 57:16
  very different type of story here, this is absolutely about
• 57:19
  the Doctor and the impact he makes on people and on the
• 57:23
  planet. And in some ways, that actually
• 57:25
  makes us the most Doctor Hooey episode of all of them.
• 57:28
  Because ultimately what is driving ultimate is to search
• 57:31
  for the Doctor is the memory of the Doctor in his house when he
• 57:34
  was three years about old. And it's a great start and we
• 57:38
  come to the reason for that later on.
• 57:40
  I would suggest you know that turn left takes that same
• 57:42
  concept and does it even better. I was just about to say, as
• 57:46
  we've turn left, no. No, no, it's all right.
• 57:51
  But for a different reason. Actually Joe, it's a Fairpoint,
• 57:53
  but there are similarities with turn Left, but as we turn left
• 57:56
  we take a different take on adventures we've already seen.
• 57:58
  So we see bits of Rose here, we see bits of aliens of London, we
• 58:01
  see Christmas Invasion, but we're seeing them from Elton's
• 58:04
  perspective. So again, we're very much
• 58:06
  bedding this in the world that our audience have got used to in
• 58:09
  the last two years. Even the absorber off later on
• 58:12
  turns out to be a a cousin of the Slovene.
• 58:14
  So we are mired in Doctor Who here.
• 58:17
  The plot pivots on the inclusion of Jackie, who is possibly the
• 58:20
  most rounded and best loved character of this stage in the
• 58:23
  series. So again, this is absolutely
• 58:26
  revelling in Doctor Who, but it's also about Doctor Who from
• 58:29
  a matter point of view. So this is about Doctor Who.
• 58:31
  Non fictionally because Linda represents us.
• 58:34
  We are Linda. We are constantly searching for
• 58:37
  as much information that we can get about Doctor Who and when
• 58:41
  times are good we find friendships and even love
• 58:44
  through Doctor Who. Who knew that people you know
• 58:47
  could find love through AI don't know a shared love of the TV
• 58:51
  movie? Maybe impossible, but you know
• 58:53
  it could. It could happen.
• 58:56
  What what they're saying is love can be corrupted and things can
• 59:00
  go toxic when someone with an agenda takes control.
• 59:04
  Maybe. Are you are you saying somebody
• 59:06
  you know might come along creating it's crazy bad
• 59:09
  animations? You know, taking control of
• 59:11
  fandom and poisoning it. Are you talking about the type
• 59:14
  of person that could promote themselves to the unofficial
• 59:17
  continuity advisor and shape all sorts of stories?
• 59:22
  I couldn't possibly say I. Refuse to believe that that sort
• 59:26
  of person would exist ever. But I think what it's So what is
• 59:30
  reminding us as we are Linda, is that we need to value our
• 59:33
  community and show love and respect for each other as we do
• 59:37
  on this podcast. Because only at the because at
• 59:39
  the end of the episode shows, it's only by Linda all coming
• 59:42
  together that we can defeat the monsters.
• 59:44
  So that's my first reason I think.
• 59:46
  You know, as a as a sort of view on Doctor Who fandom, I realized
• 59:50
  I've talked about bitchiness a lot tonight.
• 59:52
  But like there should have been, you know, like 2 sections of
• 59:54
  this Linda group where one section is going, Oh my God, you
• 59:58
  know what she said about Johnny Fowl Setter's latest adventures?
• 1:00:00
  You know, I'm being really bitchy.
• 1:00:02
  At each other, Because that's not too fathom as well.
• 1:00:04
  OK, I know this great love fest that Russy Davis is pretending
• 1:00:08
  it is. In 45 minutes, let's go with
• 1:00:11
  that. So that's my first reason.
• 1:00:13
  My second reason is the queen of Doctor Jackie Tyler.
• 1:00:19
  She this is an absolute showcase for Jackie.
• 1:00:22
  She gets to be funny, cheeky. I love it when she holds
• 1:00:24
  knickers up to her twelting in the lawn dress.
• 1:00:28
  Oh, I'm flashing my knickers at you.
• 1:00:30
  She's flirtatious. She throws the wine over Elton
• 1:00:32
  not once, but twice. But then when she gets the call
• 1:00:36
  from Rose, she forgets all that. The facade and all the
• 1:00:38
  flirtiness all goes away and she's she's just worried about
• 1:00:41
  her daughter. She's very, very human.
• 1:00:43
  And then obviously, when she rumbles Elton and tackles him
• 1:00:46
  outside the flat, she's she's a powerhouse, you know, a mother
• 1:00:50
  lioness protecting her brood, and she's wonderful.
• 1:00:53
  But there's just so many details about Jackie that just make her
• 1:00:55
  real. For me, she's playing El diva.
• 1:00:57
  What else will Jackie play but El Divo?
• 1:01:00
  Unbreak my heart, Elton says to all the wine.
• 1:01:03
  He says. Oh, is this French?
• 1:01:04
  And she says, oh, I suppose so. They know how to do things.
• 1:01:08
  The French I just. Love.
• 1:01:09
  She was such a slag, isn't she? She's.
• 1:01:12
  Just so. Real, isn't she?
• 1:01:13
  I know. Shall I hang up his ass
• 1:01:15
  constantly as he's changing those views?
• 1:01:17
  As. Related to a character.
• 1:01:19
  More if I'm honest. So that's my second reason.
• 1:01:22
  Is Jackie my third reason? I cannot give you a third reason
• 1:01:26
  because there are so many things, so I'm just going to
• 1:01:28
  reel off a few of them. The Scooby-doo chase at the
• 1:01:30
  beginning is hilarious. Peter Kay, I think gives a
• 1:01:33
  brilliant performance from that grand entrance, that camp
• 1:01:36
  entrance with all the lights go down.
• 1:01:38
  He comes in with his hat and his cane spotlight on him.
• 1:01:42
  Touch me the, exima the. Exima touch me my exima.
• 1:01:46
  Then you've got bliss. Oh bless bliss.
• 1:01:49
  She ends up on the absorber laughs ass, for Christ's sake.
• 1:01:52
  But she's lovely. We've got the romance between
• 1:01:55
  Mr., Skinner and Bridget, the romance between Elsa and Elsa,
• 1:01:59
  Ursula and Elton. There's just so much to love in
• 1:02:02
  this, isn't it? I mean, these characters just
• 1:02:04
  feel surreal. Got Bridget's story.
• 1:02:06
  She's gone to London to look for a daughter.
• 1:02:08
  It's just very simple, but it makes you feel for these
• 1:02:12
  characters. I am absolutely going to defend
• 1:02:16
  the paving slab joke, he says. We have a love life.
• 1:02:21
  She is pursing her lips at him. In other words, they kiss.
• 1:02:25
  She's a face on a slab it. Depends how filthy you are that
• 1:02:29
  you read that you know Fraser. Gregory is absolute filth, isn't
• 1:02:33
  he? He thinks it's disgraceful both
• 1:02:34
  of. It is a kiss when it first
• 1:02:36
  broadcast, so there we go. You know, so I so did I.
• 1:02:39
  And I am Mr. Innuendo and I thought that.
• 1:02:41
  Makes the case. Present company excluded as
• 1:02:44
  well. I have been sucked off by worse
• 1:02:46
  than a pavement slab, so it's not, it's not completely.
• 1:02:50
  Unlikely. Sorry.
• 1:02:55
  I continued. I was about to get emotional
• 1:02:57
  there for the end. You've ruined it now because my
• 1:03:00
  final Fiesta resistance for this episode, which again is the
• 1:03:04
  moment that takes me to tears because Russell does that all
• 1:03:07
  the time, is the montage of Elton at the end thinking of all
• 1:03:10
  the whole movies of his mother and she just fades out as they
• 1:03:13
  play Mr. Blue Sky. And he said we forget because we
• 1:03:17
  must. I mean, it's just beautiful.
• 1:03:19
  So I think Love and Monsters is a absolute triumph from start to
• 1:03:24
  finish and I am putting it through.
• 1:03:27
  Should we go to the comments? Yeah, can I go first?
• 1:03:29
  Because Joe Shaw's got a very different reading on this, she
• 1:03:33
  says. Beyond Redemption, Peter Kay is
• 1:03:36
  possibly one of the worst guest stars in Doctor Who.
• 1:03:39
  OK, I disagree. Dylan Reese's great script,
• 1:03:41
  terrible direction. The blowjob slab is hilarious.
• 1:03:45
  And more. Jackie Tyler is always good.
• 1:03:47
  Course he loves the slab. Of course he does.
• 1:03:50
  Stephen B, in equal parts a love letter to the show and a
• 1:03:53
  reflection on all that is both joyous and wrong with fandom.
• 1:03:56
  Yes, wrong. Yes, we are.
• 1:03:58
  We are the love and we are the monsters.
• 1:04:02
  Mark Warren leads, but Camille Kajuri steals the show.
• 1:04:05
  Mark Donaldson says people accuse Steven Moffett of being a
• 1:04:08
  misogynist, but RTD literally turns a woman into a cock
• 1:04:12
  sucking paving slab. Daniel Knight A wild mix of
• 1:04:18
  wonderful and awfulness. Shout out to Camille Kajuri who
• 1:04:21
  is wonderful as she gets to do a bit more than provide the
• 1:04:24
  comedy. Fraser, Gregory says, could have
• 1:04:27
  been great if not for the tonal whiplash at the end.
• 1:04:30
  Do a moffet where everyone lives and we're happy.
• 1:04:33
  A fun, frothy story shouldn't have a sour end, Bennett.
• 1:04:37
  He's missing the point again. Please.
• 1:04:38
  The point is about fucking life and liking.
• 1:04:41
  You, Fraser? Yeah, oh, Fraser, Jack Coyer.
• 1:04:47
  This became popular to hate, presumably about people who hate
• 1:04:51
  fun hijinks. We are presented an outsider's
• 1:04:54
  view on the Doctrine Roses and politics for viewers not yet in
• 1:04:57
  on the joke. Jackie Tyler is the heart of
• 1:04:59
  this era and the absorber of scared young me.
• 1:05:03
  He's so smart. Jack isn't he?
• 1:05:04
  He is. He's a small kid.
• 1:05:06
  John Ben Salia says he's been very negative so far I've
• 1:05:09
  noticed. You got to remember, he's a man
• 1:05:11
  who professes to hate Christmas, all right.
• 1:05:16
  On the plus side, he said there's a good cast, especially
• 1:05:18
  Mark Warren, Moira Brady and Moaning Myrtle.
• 1:05:21
  Poignant moments. Plus, the Doctrine Rose are
• 1:05:23
  hardly in it. Ouch.
• 1:05:25
  Downside. Questionable humour, mean
• 1:05:27
  spiritedness and Peter Cave sink something faster than the
• 1:05:30
  Titanic Mixed. Jim Allenby I'll always have a
• 1:05:34
  soft spot for love and monsters. It was broadcast during a
• 1:05:36
  particularly difficult time in my life.
• 1:05:39
  It made me realise that I I could move on from the end of a
• 1:05:42
  long term relationship and embrace everything life had to
• 1:05:45
  offer. Luke Malloy says a unique look
• 1:05:47
  on the doctor's world from the everyday man.
• 1:05:50
  Elton should be boring, but RTD and Mark Warren somehow make him
• 1:05:53
  engaging. Fun presents kooky absorbeloff,
• 1:05:56
  but how fun? But no one talks about the
• 1:05:59
  serious underlying theme of how people go, how far people go
• 1:06:02
  when they're alone. Everyone in this is deeply alone
• 1:06:06
  and they find themselves via a brief happy spot.
• 1:06:09
  Singing in Linda. It's beautiful.
• 1:06:11
  Plus, yellow throughout is joyful.
• 1:06:14
  Joe Lwallon. I've tried.
• 1:06:16
  I've really tried, but I just don't like this episode.
• 1:06:19
  Elton is unlikable. Whatever happens to the folks in
• 1:06:21
  Linda is horrible, and the Slab good writers made a case for why
• 1:06:26
  this is a good episode. I remain unconvinced.
• 1:06:29
  Well, hopefully, Joe, I've helped convince you, Tom, Newsom
• 1:06:32
  said. If Love of Monsters have been
• 1:06:33
  shown as an ironic BBC 21 offer adults, it probably would have
• 1:06:37
  won awards. They should be.
• 1:06:39
  Podcasting is great. Colin Hicks One dodgy joke away
• 1:06:42
  from being RT DS best grip for the entire series and I.
• 1:06:46
  Wonder what that joke is? Could it have something to do
• 1:06:48
  with the paving slab? And finally, a couple of very
• 1:06:51
  succinct answers. Michael Storm says utter wank.
• 1:06:54
  James H. Says utter.
• 1:06:56
  Crap. And there you go.
• 1:07:00
  So I've defended it. Joe, what do you?
• 1:07:04
  Think Lover Monsters. I love Lover Monsters, but I'm
• 1:07:08
  going to put caveat and say I understand why people don't love
• 1:07:12
  Lover Monsters because it is a very atypical Doctor Who
• 1:07:15
  episode. People don't come to Doctor Who
• 1:07:18
  generally to have heart wrenching stories about people's
• 1:07:21
  mothers dying and friendships forming groups and all of this.
• 1:07:25
  They come to Doctor Who for monsters and villains and all.
• 1:07:28
  So I get that somebody sat down and watched this and went, yeah,
• 1:07:30
  this isn't for me. I don't think it's fair to
• 1:07:33
  dismiss those people as as some of us might.
• 1:07:37
  But however, I think this is a wonderful treatise on the human
• 1:07:40
  condition, a story of hope, loss, love, death, friendship
• 1:07:44
  and all of those things. I think it does it in the way
• 1:07:48
  only Russell Davis can. And that is by making you feel
• 1:07:51
  for these people and you love them immediately.
• 1:07:55
  So every time that's what he does, He gets you to love people
• 1:07:57
  like Linda with AY and then does something absolutely appalling
• 1:08:01
  to them. And that's where your drama is.
• 1:08:03
  So this, this episode is full of the feels.
• 1:08:06
  I think Mark Warren gives a brilliant performance.
• 1:08:08
  Not enough is said about how much he holds up this episode.
• 1:08:11
  It's the first time they did this, this Doctor Light thing,
• 1:08:14
  and he just stepped into the show and it was like he he just
• 1:08:17
  owned it, didn't he? And I think the use of ELO is
• 1:08:21
  superb in this as well. And the way we keep cutting to
• 1:08:25
  out and dancing to songs to extend to the audience how he's
• 1:08:29
  feeling during particular things.
• 1:08:30
  And then how you use the end of Mr. Blue Sky, which is this
• 1:08:33
  really sort of melancholic ending, to go along with the
• 1:08:36
  scenes of the mum dying at the end.
• 1:08:38
  And may I say, I think it's very bold for Doctor Who to show it
• 1:08:42
  shows victims all the time. But to show a dead mother on the
• 1:08:45
  floor of such a domestic setting at the end of this episode,
• 1:08:49
  that's a really strong image. That's as strong as like Buffy's
• 1:08:53
  mom dead on the couch, Sorry for anyone, hasn't watched that in
• 1:08:56
  series 5 of Buffy. And finally, yeah, Jackie Tyler.
• 1:09:00
  And the line that always gets me is when she comes out the flat
• 1:09:04
  and she says to Elton, it's never me, is it?
• 1:09:07
  And there's a hardness and a brittleness to that line at the
• 1:09:10
  same time. And anyone who writes off
• 1:09:12
  Camille Kajuri as being some terrible comedy actress, that's
• 1:09:15
  invaded Doctor Who. So much of what works about
• 1:09:18
  those first two years is Camille Kajuri and Jackie Tyler.
• 1:09:21
  It's what Toby Hado said. She's a character that doesn't
• 1:09:24
  belong in a Doctor Who story. She belongs in some dreadful
• 1:09:27
  soap. Like what works about her is you
• 1:09:29
  throw her into Doctor Who and suddenly interesting things
• 1:09:32
  start happening like they do here.
• 1:09:34
  She's incredible. So, but all of those reasons and
• 1:09:37
  more. Sorry, one last thing.
• 1:09:39
  I think the way this narrative plays out by using sort of
• 1:09:43
  flashbacks and rewinds and PO VS and all of it, there's so many
• 1:09:48
  imaginative ways that that he gives to the director to bring
• 1:09:53
  this to the screen. That's another reason as well.
• 1:09:55
  I think it's brilliant. I don't think it's the best of
• 1:09:57
  the year, but I think it's the most impressive episode of the
• 1:10:01
  year. It's going through Brilliant.
• 1:10:03
  Sight, what we have to remember is that this is a story that's
• 1:10:08
  narrated, and So what we're seeing is not necessarily the
• 1:10:12
  truth, it's the truth that Elton wants.
• 1:10:15
  To have. He narrates it right from the
• 1:10:17
  start, and you can see it in the scooby-doo escapades at the
• 1:10:21
  start. That's not going to be entirely
• 1:10:24
  how it happened, and that's why this is a super smart episode
• 1:10:28
  from Russell T Davis, because you can take what you want from
• 1:10:31
  it and you can dismiss what you want from it.
• 1:10:33
  Because we've got a wholly unreliable narrator who we even
• 1:10:38
  see editing the story as we go along.
• 1:10:41
  This is brilliant, brilliant writing.
• 1:10:44
  This is absolutely superb and Mark Warren seizes everything
• 1:10:49
  that Russell T Davis does. I loved him in Hustle, which was
• 1:10:53
  running at the same time as this.
• 1:10:54
  Hustle was my favorite show on TV at the time and he was
• 1:10:58
  sensational in that and he proves how what a fabulous actor
• 1:11:01
  he is in this as well. He is absolutely superb and like
• 1:11:06
  Joe said, the use of ELO is absolutely spot on.
• 1:11:11
  What? That's the band to choose.
• 1:11:13
  And Mr. Blue Sky is one of the first songs I can remember
• 1:11:18
  loving as a child, as a three-year old when that came
• 1:11:21
  out. I absolutely love that song.
• 1:11:23
  I closed my 40th birthday party with Mr. Blue Sky because it's
• 1:11:27
  the perfect way to end the party and just hearing those songs and
• 1:11:34
  seeing all the members of Linda come together to perform.
• 1:11:39
  Don't let Don't Bring me Down, Bruce.
• 1:11:41
  Bruce is is brilliant there, and this is what I always take away
• 1:11:49
  from, from my love of Doctor Who is that Doctor Who is a show
• 1:11:54
  that brings people together from all across wherever.
• 1:11:59
  And this is like my story of people who shouldn't belong
• 1:12:02
  together, who suddenly found each other when they needed each
• 1:12:05
  other the most. And then they got torn apart by
• 1:12:08
  horrible means. Which is not the end of my
• 1:12:10
  story, I hope, but just that that joy that the doctor can
• 1:12:16
  bring you together, whatever happens is brilliant.
• 1:12:19
  And one more thing, I'm just going to say the brilliant scene
• 1:12:23
  where Elton goes out to find Rose, and the first person he
• 1:12:27
  talks to is Bella Emberg. He says, Oh yeah, that's Rose
• 1:12:30
  Tyler. She lives just over there in
• 1:12:31
  that flat in those flats. It's absolutely, absolutely
• 1:12:35
  brilliant writing. So yeah, Russell, definitely
• 1:12:39
  through. I love this episode.
• 1:12:41
  And I again, this is another one I haven't been back to for a
• 1:12:44
  very long time. And I found there was even more
• 1:12:47
  to love in it than I'd I'd seen the previous few times.
• 1:12:51
  So have you ever, have you ever used that trick where you know,
• 1:12:55
  where she froze the wine all over the fella?
• 1:12:57
  Certainly not Joe, I'll. Get you out.
• 1:13:03
  I have flashed my knickers though.
• 1:13:06
  Oh yeah, not just in the long rat mark.
• 1:13:12
  Well, Love of Monsters is obviously a Marmite episode,
• 1:13:17
  probably the Marmite episode, So I feel like probably I'm here to
• 1:13:20
  represent the other side. Of.
• 1:13:21
  The thing Debbie Downer's in the house, he's.
• 1:13:24
  Going through anyway we've. Got two classes.
• 1:13:28
  Well, to prove that, I mean you've both sort of mentioned
• 1:13:33
  about the scooby-doo running moment.
• 1:13:35
  The top of my notes is as soon as the scooby-doo running moment
• 1:13:39
  happened, I'm I was completely out of this episode.
• 1:13:45
  Just think it's a bit silly. And Linda, are they all a bit
• 1:13:50
  stupid? Taken in by by Peter Kay.
• 1:13:56
  I just think I don't really like any of the characters.
• 1:13:59
  I think they're just a bunch of idiots and I don't really care
• 1:14:02
  about them and I don't really connect with Elton.
• 1:14:05
  I don't think I don't like him as a character very much and he
• 1:14:08
  is like you said, he is running like this, this whole story.
• 1:14:12
  So if you if you don't really like him, then that's a bit of a
• 1:14:15
  failure. And I'll ask you a question
• 1:14:17
  though, do you? Is he simple?
• 1:14:20
  He sometimes plays the Lions. No, not.
• 1:14:22
  Well, he's, he's very. Simple.
• 1:14:24
  No, not Mark. No, no.
• 1:14:28
  I mean elsehood is he's is he got difficulties sometimes he
• 1:14:31
  does line readings and he's not talking like an adult, he's
• 1:14:34
  talking like a character. Choice.
• 1:14:35
  I think that's a character choice, yeah.
• 1:14:37
  I think it's more that he's, he's innocent.
• 1:14:41
  Yeah. You're innocent aside, but
• 1:14:43
  you're still. Talking like an innocent Joe?
• 1:14:45
  No. I mean.
• 1:14:47
  Well, they're being innocent. I think we know at least 75% of
• 1:14:52
  the audience listening to. This and have sex.
• 1:14:54
  With you at some point. Sorry, I had to get a reference
• 1:14:57
  in there somewhere. Every time it's as a Doctor
• 1:15:01
  Light episode, I think maybe, maybe if they haven't got the
• 1:15:05
  availability of David Teddy, just don't make a Doctor Light
• 1:15:08
  episode. I I But I can understand all the
• 1:15:14
  points that you've made about the sort of metaphors within
• 1:15:19
  this within fandom and everything, but I just want a
• 1:15:22
  standard Doctor episode with the Doctor in it.
• 1:15:25
  You are that person I was talking about, aren't you?
• 1:15:27
  Yeah, that person that wants a Doctor Who story with villains
• 1:15:30
  and monsters and and a fun ride. Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  So it's the audience. Yes.
• 1:15:36
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:37
  So when I first watched it, I was like, oh, there's not
• 1:15:39
  where's, where's the doctor? What's happening?
• 1:15:41
  I don't want to. I don't want to know about these
• 1:15:42
  people. I'm not interested.
• 1:15:44
  And it's one that I don't go back to.
• 1:15:46
  Because of that I'm like, oh. And do you know what we've got
• 1:15:50
  to say that the. Other side there's.
• 1:15:52
  We've got to say that you represent the majority when it
• 1:15:56
  comes to love monsters. Like we've all offered
• 1:15:59
  passionate defences about the episode.
• 1:16:02
  This is an episode that came what bottom second Bottom of the
• 1:16:06
  DWM. Pole fandom hates this episode
• 1:16:08
  on the whole, so I don't think your opinion.
• 1:16:11
  I don't know. I think your opinion is
• 1:16:12
  changing. I think.
• 1:16:14
  I think at the time it very much was the.
• 1:16:16
  AI was a massive drop, wasn't it?
• 1:16:18
  I think it was 76, whereas everything else was getting like
• 1:16:20
  80 fives. So it was a it was a significant
• 1:16:23
  drop for the general public as well.
• 1:16:25
  I think the people that like love more.
• 1:16:26
  It's like those Muffet era fans. There's not many of them, but
• 1:16:28
  they're very loud. They're very loud.
• 1:16:31
  You better believe it, Ford. OK.
• 1:16:36
  So I think by the way, Joe, I think did I mentioned when we
• 1:16:38
  were discussing the format for this show, we discussed being
• 1:16:42
  able to eject a guest part way through.
• 1:16:49
  Can you go and make the tea? Then please.
• 1:16:54
  Right. So we've done our first four
• 1:16:55
  stories. So at this point, it's a good
• 1:16:57
  opportune moment to come back to the listeners overall comments
• 1:17:01
  about the season. So we return to our fabulous
• 1:17:04
  guest readers. Let's start with Mr. Seihart.
• 1:17:10
  Jack. Coyer says given the 10th
• 1:17:13
  Doctor's popularity, it's shocking that they don't fully
• 1:17:16
  lock down who he is, as he gets different costumes, accents,
• 1:17:19
  haircuts and characters to deal with before the season is
• 1:17:22
  finished. Quite.
• 1:17:22
  Clever. He's even thrown a doctor light,
• 1:17:25
  which Eccleston never gets, saddled with.
• 1:17:28
  Some great horror moments throughout and enough variety
• 1:17:30
  that I can keep coming back to it for the binging, even if it's
• 1:17:34
  not one of my absolute favourites.
• 1:17:37
  Michael Storm says this is when the show start, is it?
• 1:17:41
  I'll start that again. This is when the show started to
• 1:17:43
  learn to lean. Hang on, let me start that
• 1:17:45
  again. I haven't got my glasses on.
• 1:17:47
  This is when the show started to lean into populism as opposed to
• 1:17:51
  being popular. They cherry pick the best bits
• 1:17:54
  of series one, but rather than fix the bits which don't work,
• 1:17:58
  they discard them. However, RTD does push a few
• 1:18:01
  risks risks by taking us beyond Earth.
• 1:18:05
  I don't disagree with him, you know, I think.
• 1:18:06
  I don't think 2 is anywhere near as strong as one, despite his
• 1:18:10
  high points. Complex cated cookie, he says.
• 1:18:14
  Sorry, I have completely failed to say your name, says not the
• 1:18:19
  biggest fan of this series, though it has some highlights.
• 1:18:22
  In general, it's a reduction in quality from the excellent
• 1:18:25
  Series 1. Rose has turned from an
• 1:18:28
  adventurous traveller with a heart so pure that she's
• 1:18:30
  prepared to sacrifice herself in the part of the ways to a
• 1:18:33
  selfish, jealous woman with little regard for how her
• 1:18:36
  actions effects others, particularly Mickey.
• 1:18:40
  Though that's partly redeemed in the finale, it still leaves a
• 1:18:43
  bad taste. Melvin Penner says a couple of
• 1:18:48
  the major themes of series two are the importance of
• 1:18:51
  communication and how relationships between friends,
• 1:18:54
  family or even work colleagues depend on it.
• 1:18:57
  Fungibility and replaceability and how folks handle it, hinge
• 1:19:02
  on both. That's why School Reunion and
• 1:19:04
  Girl in the Fireplace are so critical.
• 1:19:07
  The lesson that Rose should be taking is to grasp and enjoy the
• 1:19:10
  chaos while you can. The fact that she insists on it
• 1:19:13
  being permanent and forever is her tragic flaw, and she pays
• 1:19:16
  for it in the end. Bunch ability.
• 1:19:19
  What does that mean? That was a new one on me.
• 1:19:22
  Does anyone know? I did look it up, my stupidity.
• 1:19:26
  I've never forgotten what it was and.
• 1:19:28
  I will just say because he's putting loads of comments and
• 1:19:30
  everyone gets his name wrong, it's Melvin Pena.
• 1:19:33
  Melvin, I got your back, all right.
• 1:19:37
  Paul. Smee.
• 1:19:38
  Says a decent series. Tenant is great and hits the
• 1:19:41
  ground running. Billy is OK, Great return for
• 1:19:44
  Sarah Jane and canine James Lark says.
• 1:19:49
  Remember enjoying it? Remember enjoying it at the
• 1:19:52
  time. But it hasn't aged well.
• 1:19:54
  Far too much for the plotting is sloppy and padded, The Doctor
• 1:19:57
  Rose combo is unbearably smug and so many cringe moments.
• 1:20:01
  But worse than that is how often it treads the line between
• 1:20:04
  unnecessarily or just plain yuck, The Stephen Hawking joke.
• 1:20:08
  The paving slab. The bizarre decision to make the
• 1:20:12
  doctor's already dubious, interesting girls more than a
• 1:20:15
  50th of his age explicit. Yeah, it's a bit problematic,
• 1:20:21
  isn't it? David Gillespie, Pratt says.
• 1:20:24
  Not a perfect ten, but a season with some amazing highs and
• 1:20:28
  fear. Her the three episode run 2 for
• 1:20:31
  Claw to the girl in the fireplace.
• 1:20:33
  That was Doctor Who, fresh and full of confidence and building
• 1:20:36
  on its 2005 success. Luke Malloy says a harshly
• 1:20:42
  criticized and severely underrated series.
• 1:20:45
  I'm unsure what happened in the last few years to make everyone
• 1:20:48
  hate this and rose when it was so great and popular at the
• 1:20:51
  time, and rightly so. It's a series just waiting, just
• 1:20:55
  wanting to have fun and adventure and my lovely friend
• 1:21:00
  Tom Newsom says has a real confidence after series one,
• 1:21:04
  which was still incredible. But episodes like Tooth and Claw
• 1:21:07
  and Girl in the Fly Fireplace really catch fire and probably
• 1:21:12
  blow the budget. It really founds a host style
• 1:21:15
  thanks to RTD and David Tennant who fits the material amazingly,
• 1:21:21
  and Jim Allenby says it might be intentional, but Tennant rose
• 1:21:25
  Dr. Me up the Wall. There are some classics in the
• 1:21:29
  season, but the older I get, the more I prefer small scale
• 1:21:32
  stories like The Idiot's Lantern and Gasp, Fear Her Tennant got
• 1:21:36
  better in series 3. Do you hear that phrase at
• 1:21:40
  Gregory? So interesting.
• 1:21:42
  So we've had four stories. One's been booted fair herb, but
• 1:21:45
  the other three have all had mixed reviews, which is
• 1:21:48
  interesting. So let's go round for the 2nd,
• 1:21:50
  4:00. So we started with Mark last
• 1:21:55
  time, so we're going to start with Psy.
• 1:21:59
  OK, I am going to champion the Impossible Satan Pit planet.
• 1:22:08
  It is magnificent. It is the very best base under
• 1:22:13
  siege story that the new series has done.
• 1:22:16
  The enclosed space is so brilliant and so well populated
• 1:22:22
  with fabulous, memorable, brilliantly played characters.
• 1:22:26
  I did a whole two episode, very long hamster on why this one was
• 1:22:30
  brilliant. So I will just pre see that by
• 1:22:32
  saying the characters are brilliant, the setting is
• 1:22:35
  brilliant. Toby Zedd is the most gorgeous
• 1:22:39
  man in the whole of this series of Doctor Who.
• 1:22:42
  What? Even when he's evil.
• 1:22:44
  Particularly when he's. Evil.
• 1:22:46
  And when he's standing outside with the wind blowing in his
• 1:22:50
  face, with that smug, evil, horrible smile on his face is
• 1:22:57
  great. Would you have gone running to
• 1:22:58
  him? Sigh at that point.
• 1:22:59
  I would. I'd die.
• 1:23:01
  All. Straight away sex life there
• 1:23:03
  aren't. They it.
• 1:23:07
  It it. Brings one of the greatest
• 1:23:10
  Doctor Who monsters to the screen that we have seen from
• 1:23:13
  the new series, and the one that's had possibly the most
• 1:23:16
  longevity of all of the new series monsters other than the
• 1:23:20
  Weeping Angels. I'd say more so than the Weeping
• 1:23:25
  Angels. That's the more they think they
• 1:23:26
  would have had more appearances, yes.
• 1:23:28
  And they absolutely terrified my 6 year old nephew when he was
• 1:23:33
  watching this. When my dad, who was babysitting
• 1:23:36
  him, went to cook dinner and left him to watch the scariest
• 1:23:40
  episodes of series 2A6 year old on his own, he had to go home
• 1:23:46
  halfway through the night because he was having such
• 1:23:48
  wonderful nightmares. At least you know he's doing his
• 1:23:51
  job. So yes, when I took him, my my
• 1:23:57
  nephew Luke to the Proms, we went to the first Doctor Who
• 1:24:00
  prom with him and and who'd walked past us, he visibly
• 1:24:05
  shrunk away from that. So it had a good power.
• 1:24:08
  So, but also, I'm just saying James Strong's direction is
• 1:24:12
  really, really good. And as he used to be known in
• 1:24:15
  our house, I'm James Reassuringly expensive, strong
• 1:24:19
  because if he can find the most expensive way to do something,
• 1:24:22
  he's going to do it. So yes, let's put the actress
• 1:24:24
  playing Scooty in a swimming pool for several days and film
• 1:24:29
  her from all the angles so that she looks that brilliant.
• 1:24:32
  Well done, James. That's what we want from Doctor
• 1:24:34
  Who. So I think this is an absolute
• 1:24:37
  triumph, and if it wasn't for School Reunion, this would be my
• 1:24:40
  top pick for the season, and possibly it would be right up
• 1:24:44
  there for the David Tennant era. For me, I think this is really
• 1:24:47
  good. And David, I think has finally
• 1:24:50
  worked out how to do Doctor Who here.
• 1:24:52
  Although I still find that, oh, you're humans, Are you
• 1:24:57
  brilliant? Really, really awful.
• 1:24:59
  Otherwise, he gets it. Spot on.
• 1:25:02
  When we did the commentary. On this, right.
• 1:25:04
  And they come out the TARDIS and go, oh, we should go.
• 1:25:06
  And then they both. Of course.
• 1:25:09
  That's. What?
• 1:25:10
  Exactly what I said. It's the first time I ever heard
• 1:25:13
  him swear. You've got to use them sparingly
• 1:25:16
  to get you useful. But.
• 1:25:19
  It's oh, I'm going to hug you. No, but that's the annoying part
• 1:25:25
  of the 10th Doctor that we see again and again and is a central
• 1:25:28
  part of his, his character. So yeah, you get a pass for
• 1:25:32
  that, David. And your hair looks good in this
• 1:25:34
  one. Right, we go to the comments,
• 1:25:37
  Fraser, Gregory, my heart sinks, but it's all right, he said.
• 1:25:41
  This is an underrated gem. It's one of those stories where
• 1:25:44
  everything works. Writing, direction, acting,
• 1:25:47
  along with sets and costumes, visual effects, music, it all
• 1:25:51
  just gels. There's a real sense of tension,
• 1:25:54
  danger, terror and dread right from the start that few stories
• 1:25:58
  manage. Underrated Who?
• 1:26:00
  Nobody underrates this. Everyone loves.
• 1:26:02
  This, I said. It was underrated.
• 1:26:04
  John Sorry. It's the only thing I disagreed
• 1:26:06
  with in that entire paragraph. So I have to say it.
• 1:26:09
  John Benzalia the best of the bunch.
• 1:26:13
  It Oh my God. John Benzali is saying something
• 1:26:15
  positive. It's a good spooky script with a
• 1:26:18
  decent set of characters and actors.
• 1:26:20
  Direction and visuals hold up well too.
• 1:26:21
  Belonging RT DS Misguided Planet ZOG Theory inevitably let down
• 1:26:26
  by the Doctor and Rose. Oh, he couldn't quite make the
• 1:26:28
  landing what what your mute button is tailor made for.
• 1:26:33
  Stephen B says one of the best RTD 2 parters taking Hinchcliffe
• 1:26:37
  and Holmes hammer Horror into space, mixing it with a classic
• 1:26:41
  Trout and Base Under Siege, all realised with an amazing custom
• 1:26:44
  visual effects. It's a masterpiece.
• 1:26:47
  This is proper Doctor Who. See, Everyone loves it.
• 1:26:50
  Dylan Reese. Proper scary sci-fi horror.
• 1:26:53
  Brilliant. Well building, superb supporting
• 1:26:55
  cast. First class monster.
• 1:26:57
  Somebody give Matt Jones another crack.
• 1:27:00
  Gareth Boley says finally off earth and sense of true
• 1:27:03
  jeopardy. Michael Storm The highlight of
• 1:27:06
  the season. A modern take on a Trout and
• 1:27:07
  based Under Siege with excellent direction, actual scary moments
• 1:27:11
  and actual characters Let down by a rather too convenient
• 1:27:14
  ending. A common issue with RTD era
• 1:27:16
  Doctor Who. Jack Coya says this is more like
• 1:27:19
  it's so atmospheric and some horrifying visuals, Great story,
• 1:27:23
  really testing the Doctor's faith and an interesting
• 1:27:25
  exploration of how invested roses, excellent supporting cast
• 1:27:30
  and the Beast effect holds up pretty well.
• 1:27:32
  Daniel Nye An effective horror, well cast and directed, The Ood
• 1:27:36
  are a stunning creation. Luke Malloy says A horror
• 1:27:39
  thriller who has never been scarier, more action-packed and
• 1:27:43
  thematically engaging. Joe Llewellyn, my goodness, he
• 1:27:46
  says. Oh, sorry, I dodged an American
• 1:27:48
  outside. He is an American.
• 1:27:52
  Really my favorite RTD scripts he significantly rewrote.
• 1:27:55
  It should have given himself at least a Co writer.
• 1:27:58
  Credit fantastic guest cost. Proper base on the siege,
• 1:28:02
  atheist RT, DS, Take on religion.
• 1:28:05
  It's generally interesting and respectful.
• 1:28:10
  That was possibly the worst American.
• 1:28:12
  Accent. Outside of Nicola Bryant, yeah.
• 1:28:17
  James H says if you ignore the fact that there's nothing in
• 1:28:20
  physics that means a planet can't orbit a black hole because
• 1:28:23
  of the mavitational pull, then this is a brilliant 2 parter.
• 1:28:27
  And yes, we did see what you did there, James.
• 1:28:29
  Ian Winston Yes, it's very Event Horizon, but it's still a
• 1:28:32
  cracking adventure and glorious to get Gabriel Wolfpack as.
• 1:28:35
  The boost. And Tom Newsom says overshadows
• 1:28:38
  the Cybermen episode as it's a proper action movie.
• 1:28:42
  Jesus, is everyone said something positive?
• 1:28:44
  Everybody said something positive.
• 1:28:46
  That's a first. Well, wait, Should we go to
• 1:28:48
  Mark? Yeah, we've got Mark all.
• 1:28:51
  I was going to say I was going to say I I am also going to be
• 1:28:55
  positive. I'm going to be positive about
• 1:28:57
  this as well. My God.
• 1:29:00
  Good. Grief.
• 1:29:01
  I think actually this has my favorite pre opening titles
• 1:29:05
  sequence. I know the bit where they they
• 1:29:07
  laugh, but the stuff with with the you'd we must feed you.
• 1:29:10
  I love that moment. All the the Toby stuff,
• 1:29:14
  possession stuff, terrifying. This is the scariest Doctor Who
• 1:29:18
  has been up until this point. It makes the empty child look
• 1:29:20
  like absolutely like play days. It's nothing, is it?
• 1:29:24
  Love that stuff. And yeah, there's all that that
• 1:29:27
  action, but also there's some quieter moments in in the second
• 1:29:32
  episode with the Doctors going down into that abyss, just down,
• 1:29:35
  down, down. And he's just talking to Ida
• 1:29:39
  about religion and what they believe and everything.
• 1:29:41
  It's got some really great, just that dialogue and it's just
• 1:29:44
  nothing. It's just on that rope just
• 1:29:47
  going down. I really like that.
• 1:29:50
  So yes, this is, of course I'd like everybody loved this at the
• 1:29:53
  time, and I think everybody still loves this.
• 1:29:57
  Absolutely one of my favorites. It's you, Joe.
• 1:30:02
  Adore it. I absolutely adore it.
• 1:30:03
  I Joe, I used to love the first episode and be a bit
• 1:30:06
  disappointed by the 2nd and ever since I did the commentary watch
• 1:30:09
  with Sy and Fraser. I love the whole thing.
• 1:30:12
  Now I don't know what I was thinking about back in the day.
• 1:30:14
  You go read my review on doco reviews.
• 1:30:15
  I was savage about what's the second one called, the Saving
• 1:30:19
  Pets. It's got a realistically sort of
• 1:30:22
  grimy and gritty workplace. We don't do this enough in
• 1:30:25
  Doctor Who. Those tables in the in the
• 1:30:27
  eating area, see how filthy they are?
• 1:30:29
  I wouldn't eat off those tables, but it just it feels like
• 1:30:33
  they've been there for a while. They're settled in.
• 1:30:35
  No one's really doing the cleaning because there ain't
• 1:30:37
  enough, wouldn't they say There's no one doing the laundry
• 1:30:39
  either, because the doctor's got to do that when he turns up?
• 1:30:41
  It just feels, it feels like a a functioning face on this place.
• 1:30:46
  And I really, really like that. Even like the the way they open
• 1:30:49
  and close the doors and things like that.
• 1:30:51
  It feels like a something that has been constructed as they've
• 1:30:54
  come here. It's what they do in Waters of
• 1:30:56
  Mars as well and it's just as effective there.
• 1:30:59
  So massive, massive points for the execution of setting.
• 1:31:03
  You've all said it already. The genuine horror that's in
• 1:31:06
  this, the psychological horror I love, as well as the sort of the
• 1:31:10
  visceral horror. So you said about Will, Well
• 1:31:14
  thought outside, smiling. Those images really stuck in my
• 1:31:17
  head. But the line that gets me is
• 1:31:19
  when the Beast is really poking at them all, when he goes, Did
• 1:31:23
  your wife ever forgive you, Mr. Jefferson?
• 1:31:26
  Let me tell you, she never did. And it's literally leaning into
• 1:31:29
  all of these characters, real fears that Toby's Ed's a virgin,
• 1:31:34
  that Rose Tyler's going to die soon.
• 1:31:37
  All of that stuff's really, really great.
• 1:31:39
  And that's before you get to all the treaties on religion and
• 1:31:42
  stuff you were talking about in episode 2.
• 1:31:45
  So yeah, I think this is a genuinely scary episode, but
• 1:31:47
  it's got like visual scares and it's got psychological scares.
• 1:31:51
  So it's like a 1-2 punch. And just everybody goes on about
• 1:31:56
  how great the characters are in this.
• 1:31:58
  But I think it's one of the best guest casts as well.
• 1:32:02
  All of those actors are brilliantly chosen.
• 1:32:04
  You asked me to name a single character in Sorry.
• 1:32:10
  Don't go Steven Moffat. No, no, no.
• 1:32:12
  In no, no. I'm going to tell you a similar
• 1:32:14
  story Before the flood and what's it called.
• 1:32:16
  I don't remember any fucking characters in that story.
• 1:32:19
  None of them at all are in my head.
• 1:32:21
  But I could name every single character.
• 1:32:23
  And it's not just because I watched it this week.
• 1:32:24
  It's because they're vivid. It's because there's great
• 1:32:26
  details. They've got brilliant back
• 1:32:28
  stories. We go on a really terrifying
• 1:32:31
  adventure with them, you know, and we explore them.
• 1:32:34
  We, we we we're in trouble with them.
• 1:32:37
  And it's something that The Waters of Mars again does
• 1:32:40
  brilliantly. They didn't do enough stories
• 1:32:43
  like This Midnight's Another One as well, sort of once a year
• 1:32:46
  they do one story where they get a brilliant cast of characters
• 1:32:50
  and they're all really sort of vivid and memorable.
• 1:32:52
  So yeah, it's when I was talked to stories where basically
• 1:32:56
  everything goes right. And so many times with doctor
• 1:33:00
  stories, one thing falls to the wayside.
• 1:33:02
  The musical scores shit or the set design shit or the
• 1:33:05
  directions bad, or the scripts lackluster, or there's one dodgy
• 1:33:08
  performance. I don't know.
• 1:33:10
  Whoever you are, sweetheart, thank you.
• 1:33:12
  You know, there's always somewhere, something in there
• 1:33:14
  ruining it. This has got everything.
• 1:33:18
  Everything. Every box is ticked.
• 1:33:21
  Yeah, I don't know what he's talking about.
• 1:33:22
  Underrated. I think this is rated very
• 1:33:24
  highly and for a good reason. It's obviously going through.
• 1:33:28
  And I am going to make it 4 for four because obviously this is
• 1:33:31
  going through my first reason I think about it.
• 1:33:35
  You know, it's pretty much got every cliche or Doctor Who trope
• 1:33:39
  in the story. So we've got, I mean the first
• 1:33:41
  bit you mentioned, Mark, about the cold open we will feed you.
• 1:33:45
  That's a great subversion, but that's a typical cliche, isn't
• 1:33:48
  it? The monsters coming, we will
• 1:33:50
  feed. You've got a base on.
• 1:33:51
  I'm not saying it does it badly, I'm saying it's every cliche.
• 1:33:55
  But Don. Fraser hated it.
• 1:33:56
  Well, we did. The commentary hated that bit.
• 1:33:59
  Did it. Our thing was.
• 1:34:00
  Super. That was smart.
• 1:34:01
  That's a really. Smart room.
• 1:34:02
  Yeah, it's a really nice way of getting out of the cliffhanger.
• 1:34:06
  Exactly. As everyone's mentioned, you've
• 1:34:08
  got the traditional base under siege, but you know how more
• 1:34:11
  isolated a base can you get than a space station hanging on a
• 1:34:14
  rock above a black hole? There's only got one gravity
• 1:34:17
  tunnel to get it out. So again, you're taking it to
• 1:34:19
  the extreme. You've got a bunch small bunch
• 1:34:22
  of humans under threat, but as you write such a fantastic cast,
• 1:34:25
  fantastic writing, you've got the TARDIS is lost, so they
• 1:34:29
  haven't got that as a means of escape.
• 1:34:32
  You've got monsters on the rampage.
• 1:34:34
  You've got it's kind of a whodunit.
• 1:34:37
  Well, who is in league with the Beast.
• 1:34:38
  They're all wondering early on is someone playing tricks.
• 1:34:41
  Toby certainly thinks someone's playing tricks on him.
• 1:34:43
  And then someone. Is even leak?
• 1:34:45
  Yeah, exactly. The fact they're all hiding the
• 1:34:48
  secrets as well. You've got kind of that whodunit
• 1:34:50
  feel to it as well do. You remember that bit where he
• 1:34:53
  goes? I was just coming.
• 1:34:59
  To remember. That you don't.
• 1:35:01
  Probably the best escape through ventilation ducts because.
• 1:35:05
  We we would all be looking at everyone's arses.
• 1:35:07
  Wouldn't we like roses? Well, I'm not sure I would if I
• 1:35:10
  had that blooming, visceral threat of the Ood running to.
• 1:35:13
  I mean, that is terrifying. When the Ood scampering guy.
• 1:35:16
  Rod, come on. I think at that moment, yeah, I
• 1:35:20
  think I'd be a little bit more worried about the Ood.
• 1:35:23
  You've got everyday objects becoming scary, so roses mobile
• 1:35:26
  issues with a threat, you've got the intercoms pursuing threats,
• 1:35:29
  you've got gods and devils from the dawn of time.
• 1:35:32
  You've got every cliche in that, but either subverted or done
• 1:35:36
  absolutely brilliantly. So that's one of my reasons.
• 1:35:39
  And as everyone else has said, you've got really weighty issues
• 1:35:42
  of life and death, religion, slavery.
• 1:35:46
  Rose racked really badly to the Ood originally because they're
• 1:35:48
  introduced as a slave race and she makes every opportunity
• 1:35:52
  quite gratuitously to to try to talk to them and get involved
• 1:35:55
  with them so she doesn't just treat them as servitors.
• 1:35:58
  And I love the fact that the last line of the episode is
• 1:36:01
  Zachary saying that he's recommending each and every Ood
• 1:36:04
  individually for tributes. I thought, fine, So that's
• 1:36:08
  showing that they've come round and recognized that you'd our
• 1:36:11
  race in their own. That one bit of unfinished
• 1:36:13
  business as well, that the Doctor left them all die.
• 1:36:16
  We picked that up in Planet of EU, don't we?
• 1:36:18
  Absolutely, absolutely. He does say I'm sorry I couldn't
• 1:36:21
  save them, but you're right, it is a bit of a that's a bit of a
• 1:36:23
  sad. Apologies for being massacred.
• 1:36:25
  Let's go. Come.
• 1:36:26
  On it's all right. That real sense of life and
• 1:36:29
  death in this, I think. And you you feel it more in
• 1:36:32
  others. And it's really helped by the
• 1:36:33
  writing again. So that moment when Ida, when
• 1:36:36
  the doctors, you were saying Mark, the doctor's going down
• 1:36:39
  into the pair and I just just sent him over the intercom.
• 1:36:41
  I don't want to die alone. And you, you feel it more there
• 1:36:45
  than I think you do in most Doctor Who stories.
• 1:36:47
  And the same with Rose. She doesn't want to leave, even
• 1:36:49
  though she thinks the doctor's dead.
• 1:36:51
  She's refusing to leave. They have to, you know, knock
• 1:36:54
  her out to take her on board the ship.
• 1:36:56
  She get real. You know, it feels more real.
• 1:36:58
  And then he gets stuff about religion and faith.
• 1:37:01
  Yeah, it's great. And then, as we've all said
• 1:37:04
  already, the production is superb.
• 1:37:06
  The old absolutely stood the test of time.
• 1:37:08
  I think some of the shots with the Beast and the Doctor in
• 1:37:10
  frame at the same time the CGI is probably not stood the.
• 1:37:13
  Test very enough though. Well, but yeah, exactly.
• 1:37:16
  But the beast itself is such an amazing creation, Joe, you were
• 1:37:20
  talking about the very real sets, that hexagonal corridor.
• 1:37:23
  So they run up and down. I have never seen a better
• 1:37:25
  design corridor in my life. It just feels so absolutely
• 1:37:29
  real. So yeah, for all these reasons,
• 1:37:32
  it is absolutely going. Through Only the Doctor podcast,
• 1:37:35
  Good The Line, I've never seen a better design corridor.
• 1:37:42
  And that corridor went on to star in totally Doctor Who for
• 1:37:45
  the year. It did.
• 1:37:46
  Well. Yes.
• 1:37:47
  And will probably be on next year's Eurovision Song Contest.
• 1:37:50
  And also imagine fear her if Gabriel Wolf had possessed Chloe
• 1:37:54
  Webber. That's the atmosphere that we're
• 1:37:56
  looking. For that's what we get in this.
• 1:37:58
  No, we just wanted Chloe to be thrown down the.
• 1:38:01
  Pit. Don't turn around, Chloe Webber.
• 1:38:07
  Oh, gosh. Right.
• 1:38:08
  So Mark, we are on to you. Oh, your second choice.
• 1:38:13
  Right. It's because worry was very
• 1:38:16
  positive. I wasn't sure if I which one I
• 1:38:18
  should. Yeah.
• 1:38:18
  No. OK, I'm going to talk about
• 1:38:20
  Tooth and claw or a Victorian werewolf in Scotland.
• 1:38:26
  Yeah, brilliant story. You've got the Doctor and Rose
• 1:38:32
  that. There's been a lot of discussion
• 1:38:35
  about their smogness here. I think it's it's OK here.
• 1:38:38
  They're enjoying themselves and their delight at meeting Queen
• 1:38:41
  Victoria and the whole trying to get her to say we are not
• 1:38:45
  amused. I just love that interplay and
• 1:38:49
  Pauline Collins as Queen Victoria is brilliant in this.
• 1:38:54
  The way that she sort of puts up, gives them the side eye
• 1:38:57
  throughout this whole episode and then proper has a go at them
• 1:39:00
  at the end after after knighting them and saying actually get out
• 1:39:04
  of here, go. She's put up with all of this
• 1:39:06
  stuff throughout the whole thing and just totally cuts them down.
• 1:39:10
  She's talking for every Doctor Who fan there, isn't she?
• 1:39:14
  I am not amused. But it's a great story.
• 1:39:19
  For the moment you get the Kung Fu monks, your interest is is
• 1:39:24
  piqued. I beg your.
• 1:39:25
  Pardon. What do you mean about that?
• 1:39:27
  You know it's. Just, you know, it's just a it's
• 1:39:31
  a cool way of it doesn't really mean anything, but it's
• 1:39:33
  hopefully, you know it's like a cool start to an episode.
• 1:39:36
  There's some really scary moments as well with the the guy
• 1:39:39
  in the cage where Rose is tied up there and that that possessed
• 1:39:44
  scene. Again, if Chloe Weber had had
• 1:39:47
  half of that, fear would be great.
• 1:39:49
  Chloe Weber, the way that and the way that he puts his face
• 1:39:53
  out of the Cajun looks up to the moon and the werewolf fear looks
• 1:39:58
  brilliant. You've got the point of view
• 1:39:59
  shots a lot, but it still looks. Great.
• 1:40:03
  Today you've got those those horror movie moments where
• 1:40:06
  they're all in the in the library and there's noises
• 1:40:09
  around and they're all trapped in the library.
• 1:40:11
  That that guy that thinks he shot the werewolf and suddenly
• 1:40:14
  he's grabbed from the roof, got those scary moments that's like,
• 1:40:18
  what do you say, Queen Victoria sheep shoots somebody.
• 1:40:22
  That's pretty cool. This is the opposite.
• 1:40:27
  Of love of monsters for you, isn't it?
• 1:40:28
  This is. Everything.
• 1:40:29
  You want from is this is it. This is my yeah, this is my type
• 1:40:33
  of Doctor Who story and it sets up all the torturous stuff at
• 1:40:36
  the end. It's a very important story and
• 1:40:39
  I like the way that Queen Victorious sets up tortured and
• 1:40:43
  she banishes the doctrine. She says I do not want anything
• 1:40:47
  to do with it. This is these are awful people.
• 1:40:50
  I don't want anything to to do with this.
• 1:40:52
  I need to set something up to stop this happening again.
• 1:40:55
  You know, it could have easily been, oh, thank you, doctor, for
• 1:40:57
  saving us, you know, and being grateful.
• 1:41:00
  And it doesn't go that way. Yeah, absolutely he.
• 1:41:04
  Doesn't have much luck with Queens to see the Doctor we're.
• 1:41:08
  Talking about Adric. Well, no, this is this is
• 1:41:15
  brilliant. I really love this.
• 1:41:17
  Fabulous. Should we go to the comments?
• 1:41:19
  John Ben Saglia? Oh, bit of positivity, Much
• 1:41:22
  potential here. It's crisp, fast-paced with some
• 1:41:25
  welcome moments of horror, Moody direction and a strong guest
• 1:41:28
  cast. As ever, the usual flaws
• 1:41:31
  squander that potential. No subtlety, Maurice.
• 1:41:34
  Pompous chorus and a TARDIS team you wish the werewolf would
• 1:41:37
  gobble up. Now, John, I love you, but I
• 1:41:40
  Please stop watching the new series.
• 1:41:42
  You're never going to enjoy it, all right?
• 1:41:43
  Like Lucy McCall, I enjoyed Tooth and Claw the first time I
• 1:41:48
  saw it. Thinking about it now, it's
• 1:41:49
  quite an old fashioned storybook depiction of historical figures.
• 1:41:53
  It does rollick along though, and Rose and the Doctor getting
• 1:41:55
  told off for enjoying the danger is nicely done.
• 1:41:58
  As always, it's up to viewers to decide whether they object to
• 1:42:01
  the depiction of the historical characters, and particularly the
• 1:42:05
  use of that specific diamond as a plot device.
• 1:42:08
  First time around, I enjoyed the Daredevil Queen.
• 1:42:11
  Now I'm not so sure. Dylan Reece said.
• 1:42:14
  When this first aired, I thought it was the best Doctor Who had
• 1:42:16
  ever looked. The Slow MO Monks and CGI Wolf
• 1:42:19
  were cutting edge. Stephen BI love this Fang rock
• 1:42:24
  for a modern audience. The beast trapped within,
• 1:42:26
  literally and metaphorically, and the use of light to destroy
• 1:42:30
  the Big Bad Wolf, literally and metaphorically, is masterful
• 1:42:34
  storytelling, the best kind of Doctor Who historical fun,
• 1:42:37
  smart, and scary. Jack Hoyer said fun, scary,
• 1:42:41
  atmospheric, unfairly forgotten are the ninja.
• 1:42:44
  Amongst the most well recognized image in Doctor Who history.
• 1:42:47
  From their use as a BBC IDENT, historicals bring this TARDIS
• 1:42:50
  team closer, lording it over people from the past.
• 1:42:54
  Were they annoyed then? Yeah, I think so.
• 1:42:56
  Oh wonderful Fraser Gregory. A more substantial piece, though
• 1:43:01
  it does suffer a bit from shopping list.
• 1:43:03
  Itis Kung Fu Monks, Queen Victoria, Werewolves.
• 1:43:07
  It's good fun nonetheless. FX and music are top.
• 1:43:10
  All hail Pauline Collins. James H says amazing effects,
• 1:43:14
  great Horror Story, and bonus marks for the Jamie reference.
• 1:43:18
  Michael Storm An enjoyable Rob, but it feels like a simplified
• 1:43:21
  Terrance Dick story, even as far as going as as rehashing Fang
• 1:43:25
  Rock by using a diamond to act as a focusing beam to destroy
• 1:43:28
  the threat. However, it oozes atmosphere and
• 1:43:31
  the werewolf transformation sequence is ace.
• 1:43:34
  Ian Winston says a perfectly formed one episode adventure.
• 1:43:37
  If we ignore the Kung Fu monks and the one my kids all ask for
• 1:43:41
  over and over. Scary too.
• 1:43:43
  Joe Llewellyn I love the Kung Fu monks in 19th century Scotland.
• 1:43:48
  Pretty good werewolf for the budget.
• 1:43:49
  Queen Victoria was right to tell those smug jerks off I.
• 1:43:53
  Should have bought a Belgian tie for every smug reference, Daniel
• 1:43:57
  Knight says. An effective shocker to scare
• 1:43:59
  the kids so. You're noticing A trend.
• 1:44:03
  I am noticing A trend that the overall comments for the season
• 1:44:05
  are negative, and yet the individual comments for the
• 1:44:08
  episodes are quite positive. Yeah.
• 1:44:10
  Anyway, sorry. No.
• 1:44:11
  Well, no. Good point, Psy.
• 1:44:14
  How do you respond to Toussand Claw?
• 1:44:16
  And I'm going to go back to what Fraser said, where he said this
• 1:44:19
  is a shopping. List never go back to.
• 1:44:21
  No, no, no this time because Kung Fu monks, Queen Victoria
• 1:44:26
  werewolf and Russell T Davis has the confidence to put all of
• 1:44:31
  those in 145 minute story when those could be the focus of
• 1:44:38
  three different stories. But he throws them all into the
• 1:44:41
  mix and he's this is a this is a last minute script as well
• 1:44:45
  because the story from Stephen Fry I think fell through.
• 1:44:50
  So he's doing this at the last minute and Russell at when he's
• 1:44:54
  thrown in at the dependence got to rescue something has got to
• 1:44:57
  write fast is often Russell at his best.
• 1:45:01
  So I think this works because you've got that shopping list
• 1:45:04
  and he's just going for it. And something my friend Tom said
• 1:45:09
  to me recently was that in series one, one of the lessons
• 1:45:14
  they learn is from doing The Empty Child and The Doctor
• 1:45:18
  Dances, where there's a slight irreverence to history that you
• 1:45:23
  don't get before that. So when you have the Unquiet
• 1:45:26
  Dead, it's a very reverential of Charles Dickens, Victorian
• 1:45:29
  London. But Steven Moffat makes history
• 1:45:32
  sexy and brilliant. And so Russell is thinking,
• 1:45:36
  well, I could do that. And he does it brilliantly
• 1:45:40
  because he's a genius. And so he can suddenly do this
• 1:45:44
  story, which is basically just one great big chase, but you
• 1:45:48
  never notice that it's just one great big chase because it's so
• 1:45:53
  full on. And the pace?
• 1:45:55
  Is to Bam, Bam, bam and. You don't have time to stop and
• 1:45:58
  think until the very end and then it's done and it's great.
• 1:46:02
  So yeah, I think everyone is doing this.
• 1:46:05
  And I think shout out for Eros Lynn who directs this
• 1:46:09
  beautifully. The action is absolutely spot
• 1:46:14
  on. He paces it brilliantly and he,
• 1:46:17
  yeah, he knows the the beats of this story and it's yet
• 1:46:21
  perfectly done. So yeah, a definite thumbs up
• 1:46:24
  and it's staying in from me. How did EUR Lim go from this to
• 1:46:27
  fair? I mean, it's absolutely one
• 1:46:29
  extreme to the other, isn't it? Right.
• 1:46:32
  I am also going to keep this one in.
• 1:46:34
  I think it's a great story. First thing I'm going to pick on
• 1:46:37
  is Queen Victoria. She's not the focus of this
• 1:46:40
  story because it's not specifically just about Queen
• 1:46:43
  Victoria like, you know, Rose Parks, for example, or Agatha
• 1:46:47
  Christie. She's almost like a side
• 1:46:49
  character. So that could lead her to be
• 1:46:51
  shown in a fairly stereotypical way.
• 1:46:54
  And Rose certainly views her through stereotypical eyes
• 1:46:57
  because all she's worrying about is trying to get her to say we
• 1:47:00
  are not amused. So she's buying into that kind
• 1:47:03
  of common perception. So I think it's really to RT DS
• 1:47:06
  credit. They absolutely rounds out
• 1:47:09
  Victoria. She becomes a very real nuanced
• 1:47:11
  character and he treats her with respect and Pauline Collins
• 1:47:14
  backs that up by giving a really solid performance.
• 1:47:17
  And I think we end up seeing her as a true character and not a
• 1:47:20
  caricature. She's a strong woman in a man's
• 1:47:23
  world. She's more than capable of
• 1:47:25
  standing up to herself. She shoots us, as you said Mark,
• 1:47:28
  she shoots Father Angelo, but interestingly she doesn't take
• 1:47:31
  the credit for it. She says Captain Reynolds killed
• 1:47:34
  him because she kind of knows her place in the world and.
• 1:47:37
  Lying though Rod. My name is Your Majesty.
• 1:47:42
  Tang A. Sassy bitch.
• 1:47:46
  It's because she's she's just said she's just a woman.
• 1:47:48
  She's standing up for herself. She mourns the loss of her
• 1:47:52
  husband in a really moving scene around the dinner table.
• 1:47:54
  I said the dead stay silent and we must wait.
• 1:47:58
  And it's really quite chilly in that moment.
• 1:48:00
  And obviously that resonates with David Tennant because he's
• 1:48:02
  thinking about the Gallifreyans. That works really well.
• 1:48:06
  She commands a lot to respect, but I love the fact that she
• 1:48:08
  puts the sycophants in her place.
• 1:48:09
  So when Reynolds is over laughing at her joke, she says I
• 1:48:13
  shall contain my wit in case I do you further injury, so she.
• 1:48:17
  Doesn't say when people do that in it, they overlap.
• 1:48:20
  All right, well, that's funny. She doesn't love you.
• 1:48:28
  You're a bloody. Expert.
• 1:48:29
  All right. She's the one that notices the
• 1:48:33
  doctors dropped his Scottish accent, so and she's wary of him
• 1:48:36
  all the way through. It's really unusual for a Doctor
• 1:48:38
  Who's story to go from beginning to end and the character to stay
• 1:48:41
  wary of the Doctor right the way up to the very end.
• 1:48:44
  Usually at some point in the narrative they're won over, but
• 1:48:47
  here she stays wary right to the end, which ends in that scene,
• 1:48:50
  as we've already talked about of her kind of saying that he is
• 1:48:54
  banished and exiled forever, which is great, and the.
• 1:48:58
  Only way. The only way I could be Even
• 1:48:59
  better if at the end she'd gone. You two are so bloody annoying.
• 1:49:04
  I banish you. You're so irritating.
• 1:49:09
  I'm on the best bit is just the look of abject horror on the
• 1:49:12
  face when Rose on the Doctor hug.
• 1:49:15
  She is so appalled that these two characters are just hugging
• 1:49:18
  and showing emotions because you know that's against her
• 1:49:21
  Victorian values. And she even does the same when
• 1:49:23
  Robert and Isabel, even though they're husband and wife, hug
• 1:49:26
  she. It just looks aghast.
• 1:49:27
  So I think great, great character feels very real.
• 1:49:32
  I love the plot. It's a trap within a trap.
• 1:49:34
  It's not quite sorry Joe, but it's not quite Steven Moffat's
• 1:49:38
  cleverness of hiding things in plain sight.
• 1:49:40
  But there are lots of clues dropped throughout the episode,
• 1:49:43
  like all the research that Prince Albert has been doing.
• 1:49:47
  Not a euphemism. And and so we get all those
• 1:49:51
  clues and they come together and it is a trap within a trap.
• 1:49:53
  And I love the fact we use moonlight to defeat the
• 1:49:56
  werewolf. And the explanation is that you
• 1:49:58
  know, we're all made of of water, We're 98% water and we
• 1:50:02
  can still drown. So a werewolf can still be
• 1:50:04
  killed by moonlight. So I thought it was really good.
• 1:50:07
  I love that plot and the visuals as we've talked about.
• 1:50:09
  There's so many good shots in here, and one shot that we
• 1:50:13
  haven't called out so far that must mention is where the Doctor
• 1:50:15
  puts his ear against the wall and the werewolf on the other
• 1:50:18
  side, which kind of mirrors the Doctor and Rose at the end of
• 1:50:21
  doomsday. That must have been done
• 1:50:23
  purposefully. But yeah, there's just so much
• 1:50:26
  the the direction, the look of it, the starkness of the
• 1:50:29
  Scottish landscape at the beginning was brilliant.
• 1:50:32
  You've got the Kung Fu monks in their brilliant red against the
• 1:50:35
  drabness and brownness of the courtyard.
• 1:50:37
  Yeah, it's it's great. Love it and and shout out to the
• 1:50:40
  male who actually had to employ a hair specialist to work on the
• 1:50:44
  werewolf. It was worth it, Joe.
• 1:50:50
  I would, I would say, though, you know encounter to your
• 1:50:54
  dismissal then of Rusty Davis over Stephen Moffitt.
• 1:50:56
  At least he does bother to make it entertaining from scene to
• 1:50:59
  scene while he is hiding those things.
• 1:51:01
  Sorry I can't help myself. Nobody's mentioned the editing,
• 1:51:04
  everyone's mentioned the direction, but the editing in
• 1:51:07
  this episode is what makes it work so well.
• 1:51:09
  All those cuts with the monks, all those cuts with the werewolf
• 1:51:12
  attacks, It's done so furiously. Actually, the episode can get
• 1:51:16
  away with being astonishingly violent in places, but because
• 1:51:21
  the editing is so quick, you don't quite see what's going on.
• 1:51:24
  So the rest has left to your imagination, which is a lot,
• 1:51:27
  actually sicker than anything they could have shown me on the
• 1:51:29
  screen. So those people have been
• 1:51:31
  eviscerated as far as I'm concerned.
• 1:51:34
  I think it's one of my goals, Best ever scores, and he drives
• 1:51:37
  the pace of this episode throughout.
• 1:51:39
  Even the bits where all the they're they're knocking the
• 1:51:43
  soldiers unconscious and they're preparing the dinner table and
• 1:51:46
  there's like a suspense and drive to those things with the
• 1:51:50
  music. But then when we're running up
• 1:51:52
  the stairs and all of that, that music is just gold.
• 1:51:55
  The werewolf transformation music is brilliant.
• 1:51:57
  I can hear it. All that's, I think is the mark
• 1:52:00
  of a good score is if you can hear it without watching it.
• 1:52:05
  I mean, I've got Pauline Collins down as well.
• 1:52:06
  I do. I love that scene you were
• 1:52:08
  talking about, Rod, where she's at the dinner table and she
• 1:52:10
  says, of course I miss him completely, You know, all these
• 1:52:13
  little asides and nuances that she's doing in an episode that
• 1:52:16
  frankly is just a big Hollywood blockbuster, you know, Queen
• 1:52:19
  Victoria and a werewolf. And the other thing I really,
• 1:52:24
  really love is I sat through, you know, many a Buffy the
• 1:52:27
  Vampire episode where Oz turned into a dreadful shaggy dog
• 1:52:33
  werewolf and do a bit where he jumped up behind the sofa and
• 1:52:37
  he's supposed to be scary. The most comical thing you've
• 1:52:39
  ever seen, this werewolf, I think even now looks really,
• 1:52:45
  really good. CGI doesn't usually hold up this
• 1:52:48
  well. They were, they were right to
• 1:52:49
  make that move, to do it this way.
• 1:52:51
  And yeah, just everything. The bit where he's on the glass,
• 1:52:55
  you know, like you said, the bit where he's up against the wall
• 1:52:57
  sort of sniffing all of those little.
• 1:53:00
  Details breath. Yeah, and.
• 1:53:02
  Everything. Yeah, like Martin, the
• 1:53:03
  transformation sequence as well. When you see the man's jaw
• 1:53:07
  distend and oh, it's just really it's it's a brilliant piece of
• 1:53:11
  horror as well as a tight script in terms of plotting.
• 1:53:17
  Man, it's got tons of atmosphere and you know, a lot of people
• 1:53:19
  round the Doctor and Rose in this episode, but if we were in
• 1:53:22
  history and we'd bet Queen Victoria you'd be trying to
• 1:53:26
  make. Us.
• 1:53:27
  Say you'd be trying to make us say we're not amused.
• 1:53:30
  Of course you would. I just don't think Doctor Who
• 1:53:32
  fans like the Doctor and Companion having fun.
• 1:53:35
  I think they want them fucking tortured all the time.
• 1:53:37
  And you know Series 9, the Pauldy and Clara, you know,
• 1:53:42
  toxic relationships. Whereas this is two people just
• 1:53:45
  having a laugh and it's wonderful.
• 1:53:47
  Yes, of course it's going through.
• 1:53:48
  On the werewolf as well, the character options toy is
• 1:53:51
  massive. Yeah, it's huge.
• 1:53:53
  Wasn't it the size of like a normal figure?
• 1:53:54
  Yeah, it's great. But he doesn't have play make it
• 1:53:58
  difficult to stand up. Always.
• 1:54:01
  Falling over, he towers over the little figures of the people.
• 1:54:04
  Yeah, it's massive great. Right, so it's my turn next.
• 1:54:08
  So I am going to go for Army of Ghosts and Doomsday.
• 1:54:13
  So I will say from the outset that I fucking love this.
• 1:54:18
  I brilliant. I can't give you really clear,
• 1:54:21
  rational reasons for this because there's just so many
• 1:54:24
  moments and it's So what Russell that I think is really, really
• 1:54:27
  good at is emotion and building emotion in the audience.
• 1:54:31
  So I have basically just split this into thrills, laughs, and
• 1:54:35
  tears, because that's what this story does to me.
• 1:54:39
  So thrills. Let's start with the thrills.
• 1:54:41
  So we start off with Rose declaring that this is the day
• 1:54:44
  she dies. Okay, that's a bit of a cheat,
• 1:54:47
  but she's. Such a drama queen, isn't she?
• 1:54:50
  Even more than you, Joe. No, not just me.
• 1:54:53
  No, but she is a drunk queen. To start an episode, that's a
• 1:54:57
  bloody good way to start the episode.
• 1:54:59
  And then suddenly there are ghosts everywhere.
• 1:55:01
  And then we find out that the cyber men are ghosts, and then
• 1:55:04
  we find out that they're everywhere.
• 1:55:05
  They're across the world. And then it's Torchwood.
• 1:55:08
  We finally reached Torchwood, and I love Murray's music cues.
• 1:55:11
  It's probably bit early because the show hasn't come on yet, so
• 1:55:14
  we don't know the thing, but of this.
• 1:55:16
  Are you talking about the? That's the one.
• 1:55:21
  With the little. Wobble, bumble, I say the Rolf
• 1:55:24
  Harris wobble. He's been cancelled as well.
• 1:55:28
  And then we meet Yvonne. I love Yvonne.
• 1:55:30
  I just. I was going to throw her in as
• 1:55:32
  her own category because Yvonne Hartman is just if you want good
• 1:55:35
  big finish, listen to the tortured Yvonne Hartman stories.
• 1:55:38
  She is just superb. But Torch would have been
• 1:55:42
  infiltrated. And then of course we get to the
• 1:55:45
  cliffhanger. What's in the sphere?
• 1:55:47
  And of course all of us are thinking, well, obviously we
• 1:55:49
  know what's in the sphere. It's Cyberman.
• 1:55:52
  And then that amazing reveal that it's the dialects.
• 1:55:55
  I mean, that must be one of the best cliffhangers of all time.
• 1:55:58
  I think I properly screamed it was that Dalek.
• 1:56:03
  Theme comes here. Oh my God.
• 1:56:06
  That was just amazing. Then you've got the development
• 1:56:09
  of Dalek Law. We introduced the Cult of Scaro.
• 1:56:11
  We've got Garlic versus Cyberman, the first time since
• 1:56:14
  The Ultimate Adventure. Only their second best.
• 1:56:24
  We've got Mickey back and I love the way it it mirrors Rose in
• 1:56:27
  Partners in Crime that he just turns round and suddenly Mick is
• 1:56:30
  there in the control room. We've got Pete back.
• 1:56:33
  We've got Jake back. We've got the Genesis arc, which
• 1:56:36
  we've told is time law technology, and it's a prison
• 1:56:39
  and it's got millions of Daleks in it.
• 1:56:41
  And then we've got the Battle of Canary Wharf and I mean just
• 1:56:44
  just so many thrills in in 90 minutes of TV.
• 1:56:47
  And it's all held together with fantastic direction, great
• 1:56:50
  visuals. OK, some of them have dated a
• 1:56:52
  bit, but you know, it is 18 years ago now.
• 1:56:54
  But, you know, the emotions and the thrills of this are second
• 1:56:58
  to none. So laughs.
• 1:57:01
  This is absolutely full of laughs.
• 1:57:03
  I know I'm not going to mention the Ghostbusters joke.
• 1:57:06
  I'm leaving that one to one side.
• 1:57:08
  But I love the tea. I know Russell does it quite a
• 1:57:11
  few times, does the TV clips, but they are hilarious.
• 1:57:14
  We've got Derek. I mean, get out of my pub.
• 1:57:20
  We've got Trisha, we've got Derek Akora, we've got the guy
• 1:57:23
  from the pirate planet pretending to be a police
• 1:57:25
  constable. What does that fucking woman say
• 1:57:28
  on Trisha? He's my.
• 1:57:29
  Ghost and I love him. Love him.
• 1:57:31
  It's just. Brilliant.
• 1:57:33
  You just know there's so many people that will be up to that
• 1:57:36
  shit. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:57:38
  And he got Jackie Tyler back to Jackie, the Queen of Doctor.
• 1:57:42
  I love the way she snogs the Doctor when he walks and she
• 1:57:44
  knows it's making him super uncomfortable.
• 1:57:46
  She's looking at roses. She's doing it.
• 1:57:48
  Just saying, look, I'm making him squirm.
• 1:57:50
  She's brilliant. I love that.
• 1:57:52
  She goes on board the tards and the Doctor makes him a
• 1:57:54
  companion, the way he introduces her to Torchwood and he's
• 1:57:57
  winding her up, so she stared into the heart of the Time
• 1:58:00
  Vortex. She aged 57.
• 1:58:02
  Years. She's not very good on her pins.
• 1:58:06
  She's very good though, at making tea.
• 1:58:08
  Ah, it's great. Well, I say good.
• 1:58:13
  And then she meets Pete, though, and there's never been anybody.
• 1:58:16
  I love that bitch. She's told.
• 1:58:18
  There's never been anyone else but and Mickey and now just
• 1:58:20
  looking at each other saying. Really.
• 1:58:23
  Bit like you do with who? Had the fruit in the dressing
• 1:58:26
  gown the. Fruit in the dressing gown.
• 1:58:29
  Yeah, that's that was for someone she was in Christmas.
• 1:58:32
  Invasion, yeah. Right, Yeah.
• 1:58:34
  Sleep apnea. What about the fellow?
• 1:58:35
  Let the truck. Exactly.
• 1:58:37
  Just paid. My.
• 1:58:39
  Don't ask questions. And say, and she really does
• 1:58:42
  want to know how rich Pete is. How rich, How do you want to
• 1:58:45
  know how rich on the stairwell when they're trying to find her?
• 1:58:49
  And the doctor says, well, where are you?
• 1:58:50
  Where are you? Just there's a fire
• 1:58:51
  extinguisher. And then right then, of course,
• 1:58:56
  you get Catherine Tate at the end.
• 1:58:57
  So, you know, good big laugh at the end with Catherine Tate
• 1:59:00
  doing a shtick. And then the final category, of
• 1:59:04
  course, is tears. Obviously there are big moments,
• 1:59:07
  but there's lots of little moments in this as well.
• 1:59:09
  I think Jackie wanting to believe that the ghost is her
• 1:59:11
  dad because she thinks he smells of old cigarettes.
• 1:59:14
  Again, it's just Russell Wright stuff that he can just do in one
• 1:59:17
  line just makes it so real. Unbelievable.
• 1:59:20
  He's the absolute master of that.
• 1:59:22
  And I think that's a lovely moment.
• 1:59:23
  And the Docks and Rose know that she's imagining it.
• 1:59:26
  And I think Jackie probably knows that she is as well, but
• 1:59:29
  she wants to believe that's her father.
• 1:59:30
  It's lovely Jackie, thinking that Rose has changed in the
• 1:59:35
  tires when they have that interchange, said.
• 1:59:37
  You know, you'll see a woman in the future and that will be Rose
• 1:59:40
  Tyler, but it won't be you. She's worried that her daughter
• 1:59:43
  is losing who she is. Again, that's very emotional.
• 1:59:46
  The meeting of Pete and Jackie, of course, that's given a long
• 1:59:50
  period for us to look, and that's because those characters
• 1:59:52
  have become so important to this era of Doctor Who that we give
• 1:59:56
  that scene time to breathe and they are given their proper
• 1:59:58
  moments of coming together and we're probably all in floods of
• 2:00:02
  tears. If that was a Chris Chipnall
• 2:00:03
  episode, you'd be complaining that the plot stopped for a
• 2:00:08
  long, protracted emotional scene.
• 2:00:10
  If. Chris Chipnall wrote dialogue
• 2:00:12
  and scenes like that. I would not be complaining.
• 2:00:16
  That's the difference. We've still yet to do 2 more of
• 2:00:19
  this season's yet. One was enough for me and then
• 2:00:24
  obviously the big tears at the end when Rose gets taken away
• 2:00:28
  and we got Murray's big theme coming in and then they meet
• 2:00:30
  again on Bad Row, Bad Wolf Bay. I mean, who wasn't crying?
• 2:00:34
  I certainly was crying and I will, although I've done my
• 2:00:38
  three. I am also going to give another
• 2:00:39
  shout out to Murray Gold, who I think generally fear her.
• 2:00:43
  It went a bit weird, but apart from that I think Murray, God,
• 2:00:45
  we've mentioned him a few times but I want to particularly call
• 2:00:48
  him out, does an amazing job in this episode and throughout the
• 2:00:51
  most of the season. It's just a driving score all
• 2:00:54
  the way through. He plays the emotions when he
• 2:00:57
  needs to. I know lots of people say, oh he
• 2:00:58
  tells you what you're supposed to feel, but I don't care.
• 2:01:01
  He is there. He's doing the right job.
• 2:01:03
  He's giving us a big, bombastic orchestral Symphony he's giving
• 2:01:09
  us for this episode and I absolutely love it.
• 2:01:11
  So those are my reasons. That I was after watching this
• 2:01:15
  season, I was really, really sick of the backwards bell that
• 2:01:19
  he uses in every single story when there's a bit of jeopardy
• 2:01:23
  and it really drives me insane. But otherwise, yeah, if you it's
• 2:01:28
  a it's a a particular sort of sound that he uses.
• 2:01:32
  There's I I'd have to play it to you to.
• 2:01:37
  It's in nearly every episode when there's a bit of jeopardy
• 2:01:40
  and danger, and it's really annoying after watching it
• 2:01:44
  back-to-back. I thought there was.
• 2:01:45
  I mean, I think it's music for this season is mostly excellent.
• 2:01:48
  But there was one story where he just poured it on too much and I
• 2:01:51
  was like, oh, shut up. I can't even hear the fucking
• 2:01:54
  dialogue. Shut up.
• 2:01:56
  You know this? Is my category, guys, shut up.
• 2:01:59
  Fingers on lips. Thank you.
• 2:02:04
  So I've finished that. Were you putting that through
• 2:02:07
  then, Rod? I am.
• 2:02:08
  Absolutely. Yeah, where's your?
• 2:02:10
  Should we go to the We had more comments on this story than any
• 2:02:15
  other. Story.
• 2:02:16
  We'll try and we'll try and rattle through them well the.
• 2:02:19
  First two people have really kind of opened up a little bit
• 2:02:22
  for our first two comments, so shall I start with the first
• 2:02:25
  one? Complicated cookie.
• 2:02:28
  So the first half of 2006 was one of the hardest times of my
• 2:02:31
  life. I was struggling with very
• 2:02:33
  fresh, raw grief and barely able to function.
• 2:02:36
  By June, I'd reached a point where I was dangerously I'll
• 2:02:38
  being completely unable to express emotion about anything
• 2:02:41
  except my all consuming loss. Then doomsday happened and I
• 2:02:45
  cried, and I didn't stop for about 24 hours.
• 2:02:48
  I genuinely believe that an episode of Doctor Who saved my
• 2:02:51
  sanity, maybe even my life. This is the power that Doctor
• 2:02:55
  Who can have on us. Even when it's far from its
• 2:02:57
  best, it can still resonate and help someone in the most
• 2:03:00
  unexpected ways. I mean, there's still a
• 2:03:03
  criticism in there, even when it's far from its best.
• 2:03:06
  But Stephen B, I'm going to tell you how this silly little show
• 2:03:09
  of ours became something that captured the heart of one rather
• 2:03:12
  important person to me, and how she came to love the show that I
• 2:03:15
  loved for so long before I met her.
• 2:03:17
  And it was this series that did that.
• 2:03:20
  Doctor Who can tell any story in series two, it does something
• 2:03:24
  it's never done before. A will they won't.
• 2:03:26
  They romance that delivers all the emotions of falling in love
• 2:03:29
  with somebody magical and then losing that love.
• 2:03:32
  This is why millions tuned in, and why it remains the best
• 2:03:35
  series of all. Two very heartfelt summaries,
• 2:03:39
  Dylan Reece says. Heartbreaking action-packed in
• 2:03:41
  an absolute triumph. So many great moments.
• 2:03:44
  Jackie and the TARDIS. Pete and Jackie reuniting the
• 2:03:47
  sphere opening and that ending. Oh dear.
• 2:03:50
  John Bensale. Oh dear.
• 2:03:53
  RT DS Vision of who is frustratingly stunted?
• 2:03:57
  Modern day Earth Tales with cheap and nasty pop culture make
• 2:04:01
  this the the TV equivalent of a dog Eared 2006 copy of Heat
• 2:04:06
  magazine, plus an ending of OTT Schmaltz as Undone two seasons
• 2:04:10
  later, making the whole thing a complete waste of time.
• 2:04:14
  I do think he's entitled to that opinion, though.
• 2:04:17
  Indeed, Jack Coyer says such a shame Frema Ajman is wasted in
• 2:04:21
  her only Doctor Who story. Daleks versus Cyberman was
• 2:04:24
  everything A 10 year old me wanted an action blockbuster
• 2:04:28
  bringing this period of the show to a close in heartbreaking
• 2:04:31
  fashion. The Donna Coda is jarring.
• 2:04:34
  Whatever happened to free regiment?
• 2:04:36
  I know she should have been. He's being sarcastic.
• 2:04:40
  Oh, I know, I know. She ended up in Sense 8 with
• 2:04:44
  that scene with the massive dildo that's.
• 2:04:48
  A really good series, actually. That scene weren't, though.
• 2:04:51
  That's a really good scene. She's the most of McCoy in that
• 2:04:55
  as well. Not that safe.
• 2:04:59
  Although if you want to see McCoy after some shenanigans, go
• 2:05:02
  see some of his BBV stuff where he's snugging the nurses and
• 2:05:04
  stuff anyway. Daniel Knight says another
• 2:05:07
  Graham Harper two-part blockbuster which brings the
• 2:05:10
  dialects and the side men on screen for the first time.
• 2:05:13
  Apart from the Ghostbusters bit, I absolutely love it.
• 2:05:16
  And the ending, although watered down by roses later returned in
• 2:05:19
  season four, was tear jerking. That is a great point about them
• 2:05:22
  doubling back on this ending. Fraser Gregory says a lot of
• 2:05:26
  fluff and nothing built around 2 core concepts.
• 2:05:29
  Daleks versus Cybers and Rose leaving.
• 2:05:31
  Both of these are so well written all of the sins are
• 2:05:34
  forgiven. Bad Wolf Bay still packs a punch
• 2:05:37
  today, even with the oh God smugness before.
• 2:05:40
  It keep it he. Wants to keep it though.
• 2:05:43
  Michael's Storm suffers from trying to do the fanboy
• 2:05:45
  masturbatory fantasy. Masturbatory.
• 2:05:50
  Was he masturbating over Daleks versus Simon Michael Storm?
• 2:05:54
  And ultimately it's a let down on that front.
• 2:05:57
  Luke Malloy says a perfect fun bomb storming finale.
• 2:06:00
  Sassy, sad and iconic. Everyone remembers the beach
• 2:06:04
  scene. David Gillespie Pratt Imagine
• 2:06:06
  wrapping up your big Dalek invasion plot with a hand waving
• 2:06:09
  piece of exposition just so you can spend the last 10 minutes
• 2:06:13
  saying goodbye and going all emotional but enough about the
• 2:06:16
  Dalek invasion of Earth and back to Doomsday.
• 2:06:19
  Jason Jason Thompson says A great finale if you overlook the
• 2:06:24
  usual RTD Deus Ex machine, ending with all the alien
• 2:06:27
  invasions Doctor Who's done over the decades.
• 2:06:30
  How did it take until 2006 before we saw a monster in
• 2:06:33
  someone's home? The ultimate Yeti on the loo in
• 2:06:36
  Tooting back That moment is chilling.
• 2:06:39
  And ultimately, James H makes no sense but the Hut's part to
• 2:06:43
  carry it off. I can't believe I've got to read
• 2:06:45
  this. Paul Quinn.
• 2:06:47
  Paul Quinn. I was.
• 2:06:49
  I was going to edit you out, but I thought, I've got to put this
• 2:06:52
  in every other side. Valid, you keep telling me that
• 2:06:56
  apart from this one, Paul Quinn says.
• 2:06:59
  The final scene with Tenant emoting all over the console
• 2:07:03
  room weeping like a character from a smash hits photo casebook
• 2:07:08
  and and Catherine Tate in full on Bell end mode bellowing What
• 2:07:12
  the hell is this place is the worst tonal shift since the
• 2:07:16
  death of Oscar Botcherby. Rick Palant.
• 2:07:20
  Thank you, Paul. I wish he would come off the.
• 2:07:22
  Fence. I'm never quite sure what he
• 2:07:25
  thinks. He is funny, bless him.
• 2:07:28
  Right. So I've championed this one.
• 2:07:29
  Joe, are you going to? Support Hello Hello.
• 2:07:32
  Are you going to support or throw it out I?
• 2:07:35
  Am. Of course I am.
• 2:07:38
  I think a lot of people sort of focus on the the second-half,
• 2:07:41
  but actually, it's worth noting that Rusty Day, if this, writes
• 2:07:44
  a brilliant penultimate episode. In fact, with Bad Wolf, Army of
• 2:07:49
  Ghosts, Sound of Drums, and Stolen Earth, he writes the best
• 2:07:53
  penultimate episodes. He just knows how to build up to
• 2:07:57
  that brilliant cliffhanger and really sort of generate the
• 2:08:00
  excitement. And I love the whole idea of the
• 2:08:04
  cracks in the earth and the side men slipping through the cracks
• 2:08:08
  like that and the sequence where you know, where the Doctor
• 2:08:12
  sonics the glass that holds. I just.
• 2:08:15
  I think that's a brilliant concept.
• 2:08:19
  I really like in the second episode how the 2nd.
• 2:08:24
  We talk about closing the walls between the two dimensions and
• 2:08:28
  everyone's arguing about who's going to stay on what side you
• 2:08:33
  feel in the pit of your gut. Something big is coming.
• 2:08:37
  This is not going to end well. In the desperation, Jackie's
• 2:08:41
  talking to Rose. Rose is saying I'm not leaving
• 2:08:43
  the Doctor and you just know you can.
• 2:08:45
  It's like a good soap when you know when a good soaps leading
• 2:08:48
  up to a big twist and you sort of feel are some reason right
• 2:08:52
  here. You know most Doctor Who stories
• 2:08:53
  head towards the climax. You go, OK, so we're going to be
• 2:08:55
  fine. Everything's going to be all
• 2:08:57
  right. You saw a new and and he he does
• 2:09:00
  that brilliantly here. And what other Doctor Who story
• 2:09:04
  would offer out a 10 minute coder like this to a companion
• 2:09:09
  like Russell does with Rose. He clearly loves that character
• 2:09:12
  but he's he's found a brilliant actress.
• 2:09:15
  He's written a character with complexities, as we've talked
• 2:09:18
  about, you know, good and bad. And he here he's given her like
• 2:09:23
  the the best hurrah you could give a companion did.
• 2:09:26
  Nothing tops this. In the new series, nothing is
• 2:09:29
  remembered as well as that sequence on Babble Bay and the
• 2:09:33
  two of them on either side of the wall slapping the walls,
• 2:09:36
  hold on to that enormous lever and sort of been sucked away
• 2:09:41
  into the vortex. All of that stuff, it is
• 2:09:44
  unforgettable. My mother phoned me up after
• 2:09:47
  watching this episode and told me how great Doctor Who was that
• 2:09:50
  night and that is the highest accolade you can.
• 2:09:53
  Ever. Give.
• 2:09:53
  Doctor Who, frankly, because she was so sick to death a bit by
• 2:09:57
  the time moved out. It's brilliant.
• 2:10:00
  It is brilliant. I think a lot of it is told in
• 2:10:02
  broad strokes. I think a lot of it is done via
• 2:10:05
  sort of stylish set pieces rather than a plot that's
• 2:10:09
  constructed with a lot of like and substance.
• 2:10:14
  And so much of it is told for emotions, like you said, Rod,
• 2:10:18
  but you just you if you get on that ride and you let it take
• 2:10:21
  you, it's as impressive, I think, as probably Doctor Who's
• 2:10:25
  ever been. And it's the point where
• 2:10:28
  everybody knew about Doctor Who. This is the point where the
• 2:10:30
  public was most on board with Doctor whoever.
• 2:10:33
  I don't think we'll ever hit this height again.
• 2:10:35
  I don't even think Stolen Earth and Journey End quite hit this
• 2:10:38
  height for sort of water cobbler talk the next day.
• 2:10:42
  So yeah, of course it's going through it.
• 2:10:43
  It's pretty incredible. Fantastic.
• 2:10:45
  So, talking of slipping through cracks, let's move on to Psy.
• 2:10:53
  Yeah, God, it's brilliant, isn't it?
• 2:10:55
  It's real. Really, really good.
• 2:10:58
  What I found interesting this time was you said some of the
• 2:11:02
  effects are dated. Some of the effects look stinky
• 2:11:04
  at the time, particularly the Daleks flying out of the
• 2:11:07
  Genesis. ARC they look.
• 2:11:09
  Good. And they have aged really badly.
• 2:11:11
  That's very poor CGI. They just didn't have the budget
• 2:11:15
  to do that effect back then. So I think about revolution of
• 2:11:20
  the Daleks when they're all in the sky and that.
• 2:11:22
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 2:11:23
  And it's so much better. But it doesn't matter because
• 2:11:29
  this is wonderfully directed by Graham Harper, who does a superb
• 2:11:34
  job and there are so many brilliant images in this that
• 2:11:38
  you've all sort of mentioned already, so I don't need to do
• 2:11:41
  that again. So, but he's really good and
• 2:11:44
  it's so good to have him back here.
• 2:11:46
  So he handles this beautifully and he gets the emotional beats
• 2:11:51
  as well as the action, and you can see him wanting to push the
• 2:11:54
  action and push it as far as he can go.
• 2:11:57
  And I was watching the Confidential about doomsday
• 2:12:00
  before, just before we did this recording.
• 2:12:02
  And he said and. They let me do this and I wanted
• 2:12:05
  to do this and they said yes you can.
• 2:12:07
  And so, so all of that, he's trying to push the boundaries of
• 2:12:10
  what Doctor Who can do as an action show, as well as getting
• 2:12:13
  the emotional side and the funny side.
• 2:12:16
  Again, the Ghostbusters scene is dreadful and has was dreadful at
• 2:12:22
  the time. And that's all I'm saying.
• 2:12:24
  But also I have such happy memories of watching Doomsday.
• 2:12:28
  So it was two days before my birthday and in my living room,
• 2:12:34
  14 Doctor Who fans packed into that living room on a very hot
• 2:12:38
  July day. And watch that.
• 2:12:41
  And they laughed and they gasped and they cried at that.
• 2:12:46
  And then at the end and. Then you watch the episode.
• 2:12:50
  And then at the end, everyone was like, what's that, Catherine
• 2:12:53
  Tate? Oh my God, what's going to
• 2:12:56
  happen at Christmas? So, like Russell says, Doctor
• 2:12:59
  Who goes on and on and on and yeah, no, this is a great, great
• 2:13:04
  finale and rightly well remembered.
• 2:13:07
  So yeah, it's a it's a definite proof from me.
• 2:13:11
  Mark. Well.
• 2:13:14
  That's always on me, that's I was on the fence about this, and
• 2:13:18
  I'm not saying I was. I might have been.
• 2:13:20
  You've all convinced me how wonderful episodes are, and it
• 2:13:26
  has a big job to do. It needs to write out Rose, who
• 2:13:31
  has been the biggest character across these the new who up
• 2:13:38
  until this point. What do you think I was going to
• 2:13:39
  say? What?
• 2:13:40
  Are you going to say the biggest bitch?
• 2:13:43
  Like like you said. Everybody.
• 2:13:45
  This was Doctor Who at it's high.
• 2:13:47
  Everybody knew David Tennant, Billie Piper and knew that she
• 2:13:49
  was leaving. How is this going to be done?
• 2:13:51
  It had a lot of loose ends to tie up and it did it
• 2:13:56
  brilliantly, bringing back, you know, Alternative, Pete and
• 2:13:59
  McKeon and all of that as well. I mean, you've all said
• 2:14:05
  everything that I was going to say anyway in in my notes.
• 2:14:10
  Yeah. I mean, of course it's going
• 2:14:12
  through. It has to, yeah.
• 2:14:13
  Fabulous. I agree with everything you
• 2:14:15
  said. So.
• 2:14:17
  Were you on the fence then? At one point, yeah.
• 2:14:22
  What were your points against it then?
• 2:14:24
  Well, I just I. Don't know, just maybe the
• 2:14:28
  battle sequences went on a bit too long.
• 2:14:31
  Honestly, you're not happy when they're doing emotions.
• 2:14:33
  You're not happy when they're doing.
• 2:14:34
  But it was, it was all the character stuff and stuff with
• 2:14:36
  Jackie and, yeah, and and the humour and Yvonne as well.
• 2:14:42
  And the the tragedy of Yvonne being, you know, turned into the
• 2:14:45
  Cyberman as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 2:14:47
  King and Country. Yeah, so although what is that
• 2:14:50
  clapping scene all about? I don't.
• 2:14:52
  Understand. Oh, I should.
• 2:14:53
  Say so, no. I.
• 2:14:55
  Don't like that? No.
• 2:14:56
  No. Happy day, Happy day.
• 2:14:59
  Oh, I won't hear a word against Troy Sun Opperman.
• 2:15:02
  She's. Brilliant.
• 2:15:03
  Joe, it's yours. So we've got left New Earth Girl
• 2:15:07
  in the Fireplace and Rise of the Sideman 2 parters.
• 2:15:10
  So which are you going to go for?
• 2:15:12
  I would like to champion a Steven Moffett story, if I may.
• 2:15:16
  Champion. I would, yes.
• 2:15:19
  The girl in the fireplace, which I think is an exceptional
• 2:15:22
  episode of Doctor Who, practically flawless.
• 2:15:26
  In fact. There's one point against it and
• 2:15:28
  that's it. I think sometimes Tenant gets a
• 2:15:31
  little bit caught up in Moffett's sitcomy dialogue and
• 2:15:34
  he takes a little while. He takes a couple of episodes to
• 2:15:36
  sort of get into Moffett's rhythm, and I do think there's a
• 2:15:39
  few moments in this where he sort of trips up on the
• 2:15:42
  dialogue. But aside from those few
• 2:15:44
  moments, he is given a great performance in this.
• 2:15:46
  But I basically want to focus on how this looks.
• 2:15:49
  I think it has some of the most beautifully fluid camera work
• 2:15:53
  you're ever going to see, and the camera never stops moving in
• 2:15:56
  this. And it's gliding around these
• 2:15:58
  beautiful sets, whether it's the spaceship or whether it's the
• 2:16:01
  house, it never stops moving. It's got sumptuous lighting and
• 2:16:05
  the design is stylish as hell. Mori Gold's score is one of the
• 2:16:10
  best we have ever heard in Doctor Who.
• 2:16:12
  I will not hear a word against it.
• 2:16:14
  It's just it's it leans into that sort of, it's sort of a
• 2:16:18
  little bit childish. It's doing a sort of nursery
• 2:16:21
  rhyme sort of riffs at the beginning, and it does the
• 2:16:24
  romance brilliantly as well. He is perfectly suited.
• 2:16:27
  I mean, he's perfectly suited for all types of Doctor Who all
• 2:16:29
  the time, as we'll get to in another episode, but for this
• 2:16:33
  sort of stuff, where he's really leaning into the emotions, he's
• 2:16:36
  just perfect for it. And my last point is Sophia
• 2:16:41
  Miles, who I've been reliably informed has been slightly
• 2:16:46
  cancelled recently. I don't know if that's the case
• 2:16:48
  or not. I don't know what she's been up
• 2:16:51
  to. Everything.
• 2:16:53
  Oh, OK. Well.
• 2:16:54
  Well, let's you name it. Ignore her questionable
• 2:16:57
  behaviour, which I don't know about, and just say she does
• 2:17:00
  give a very elegant, very commanding performance in this
• 2:17:05
  She's the best actor involved in this episode, and she's in the
• 2:17:09
  title role, and she just wafts through it with utter
• 2:17:14
  deportment. It's just glorious to watch the
• 2:17:16
  bit where the camera swoops in and she's there and the fellows
• 2:17:20
  about to chop her head off the clockwork soldier and she's
• 2:17:22
  like, oh, oh, this distressing noise.
• 2:17:25
  Please let us remember that we are French.
• 2:17:28
  Oh, she's fabulous, sort of. Bin, Rose and Mickey.
• 2:17:30
  And let's take Madame de Pompadour on some adventures.
• 2:17:34
  No, no, it's gorgeous. I mean, you guys are going to
• 2:17:36
  talk more about the plot. I'm sure it is really robust,
• 2:17:40
  this plot, it's beautifully assembled in a way that only
• 2:17:44
  Steven Moffett can see. I can say nice things about him
• 2:17:47
  when he is on form and when he has a script editor reining in
• 2:17:51
  his excesses and all of his annoying quirks.
• 2:17:55
  He is a superb writer and I think everything he did under
• 2:17:59
  Rusty Davis is brilliant. It's some of the best docs who
• 2:18:02
  we've ever seen. Again, this is, and this is
• 2:18:04
  another episode, written, directed, scored, acted.
• 2:18:08
  Everything works. It's beautiful.
• 2:18:11
  That's the only word. The way to you can sum up and go
• 2:18:13
  on the pub S It is a beautiful episode of Doctor Who.
• 2:18:15
  It really makes me feel every scene is.
• 2:18:18
  Just. Sublimely executed, it's going
• 2:18:21
  through. Wow.
• 2:18:22
  Joe Champion Stephen Moffett. You heard her first.
• 2:18:26
  Should we go to the comments? Praise.
• 2:18:28
  Gregory agrees with you. Nothing short of a masterpiece.
• 2:18:31
  It's endlessly watchable, well directed, with a perfect score
• 2:18:35
  and shows just how good a writer Stephen Moffett is.
• 2:18:39
  Darren Lit Roundels I used to say this was my favorite of the
• 2:18:41
  season, but Moffit for tea probably means I don't care as
• 2:18:44
  much now. But I ultimately enjoyed it for
• 2:18:46
  the production, performances, setting, costumes, atmosphere
• 2:18:49
  and music. Jason Thompson says please boot
• 2:18:52
  this out. There's some jarring script
• 2:18:54
  editing failure, with Rose being all smiles after a less than
• 2:18:57
  impressed reaction to Mickey joining in the previous episode,
• 2:19:01
  and a story where the Doctor abandons his companions To be
• 2:19:03
  the romantic lead just does not work for me.
• 2:19:06
  In a show with the scope as Doctor Who, making a story about
• 2:19:10
  sex and romance is just the most boring thing you can fall back
• 2:19:13
  on. No imagination.
• 2:19:15
  I have heard this from him a few times recently on podcast and
• 2:19:18
  it's valid. John Bensolio, good candidate
• 2:19:21
  for the most overrated story ever.
• 2:19:23
  The Doctor suddenly making whoopee with renet whoopee.
• 2:19:29
  He's got kids. I wonder if he made whoopee in
• 2:19:32
  his life. While.
• 2:19:34
  Abandoning his beloved Rose makes zero sense in the context
• 2:19:37
  of the season, plus the usual postmodern, clever dialogue.
• 2:19:40
  Cool horse though. Steve Stephen B says Doctor Who
• 2:19:45
  does romance and knocks it out of the park.
• 2:19:47
  Moffett under RTD is superb and perhaps no better than here.
• 2:19:51
  Love and loss. Thrills and jokes.
• 2:19:53
  Fun and scares. Nothing short of perfection.
• 2:19:56
  Born of a genius. James 8 Pretty robots, but a
• 2:19:59
  depressing foreshadowing of every Moffett plot to come.
• 2:20:03
  Lucy McCall Insubstantial, but I like the twist and the robot and
• 2:20:07
  the clockwork robots are very creepy.
• 2:20:10
  I'm really surprised these comments are as critical.
• 2:20:12
  As next. Dylan Reese I thought this was
• 2:20:14
  the most wonderful bit of Doctor Who ever when it first aired.
• 2:20:18
  Stylish, touching, brilliantly conceived classic.
• 2:20:20
  Although in hindsight, it does come across a bit like the
• 2:20:23
  Doctor is grooming her. Daniel Knight bit overrated and
• 2:20:27
  now find the idea of the Doctor discarding Rose for Annette a
• 2:20:30
  bit callous and undoctorish. The accurately titled Melvin
• 2:20:34
  Pena. This was the episode that tips
• 2:20:37
  the balance for me, from it being the show I'm interested in
• 2:20:40
  to a show I'm obsessed with forever, with all that that
• 2:20:43
  story, right? I feel like Rose's role on
• 2:20:46
  creativity in the Doctor's life has become so outsized in the
• 2:20:49
  past couple of decades. One thing I love about the
• 2:20:51
  fireplace is that it decenters Rose and shows that the Doctor
• 2:20:55
  has shifting priorities. Ian Winston says yes, now we've
• 2:20:59
  had Riversong and Moffitt's Time Traveller's Wife plundering the
• 2:21:02
  shine has come off it a bit, but it's still fantastic.
• 2:21:05
  And Sophia Miles, I might fancy her a bit.
• 2:21:08
  Plus love? Well, we never know it ending.
• 2:21:12
  Should know what Now he's done. The Time Traveller's Wife in
• 2:21:14
  this one. He never has to do it again,
• 2:21:16
  does it? Oh wait, no.
• 2:21:17
  We'll have six series of it instead.
• 2:21:20
  Michael Storm Warriors Gate as written by Jane Austen.
• 2:21:24
  Brilliant. Jolie Welling and I am not going
• 2:21:27
  to attempt an American accent. Exquisite production, great
• 2:21:30
  guest star. Just beautiful sad ending.
• 2:21:33
  Finally, Gareth Bailey feels like a rehash of the curse of
• 2:21:37
  fatal death. Right.
• 2:21:39
  OK, well, I'm going. I'm going to jump in on this one
• 2:21:41
  because, you know, I am a massive Steven Moffett fan and
• 2:21:45
  do not hide my light under the bushel with that.
• 2:21:48
  And also, I love the RTD era, so, you know, it's a bit of a no
• 2:21:52
  brainer Is that. And this is a Hugo award-winning
• 2:21:55
  episode and it looks glorious. So I don't really know where to
• 2:21:59
  begin with, OK, I'll where do I begin with this?
• 2:22:02
  I hate this episode. I absolutely hate this episode.
• 2:22:09
  What? Yeah, this is just.
• 2:22:11
  It's been sitting on this. No, hang on.
• 2:22:14
  What? Yeah, I hate this.
• 2:22:17
  This episode just does not work for me at all.
• 2:22:20
  And I'll tell you what I write. Start with the plot.
• 2:22:23
  This is the most paper thin plot.
• 2:22:26
  It just hinges on that final twist of the ship being called
• 2:22:29
  Madame de Pompadour. And it kind of reminds me of one
• 2:22:32
  of those old tales of the unexpected where the writers got
• 2:22:35
  a great idea for A twist and they've got to fill 22 minutes
• 2:22:39
  of screen time to get that twist.
• 2:22:41
  Fever and Moffett episodes. What are you talking about?
• 2:22:43
  No, no, this is worse. It's got 45 minutes to fill, and
• 2:22:47
  I hate with what it's filled with, but we'll come to that in
• 2:22:50
  a minute. Joe, you said there are no plot
• 2:22:52
  gaps in this. There are so many plot gaps in
• 2:22:54
  this. How the hell can a horse walk
• 2:22:56
  through Madame de Pompadour? Just walk through with Rose and
• 2:22:59
  Mickey into the ship? Nobody else does.
• 2:23:01
  There are time windows everywhere.
• 2:23:03
  Yeah, you can go in and out. It's a door.
• 2:23:05
  Just bollocks. Why is the crackwork Android
• 2:23:07
  hiding under the bed when did an?
• 2:23:10
  Android it's not just the. Doctor trying to groom her, you
• 2:23:13
  know. Come to that.
• 2:23:15
  Who made those androids? The ship are all dead.
• 2:23:17
  They've they've taken them for part.
• 2:23:18
  So who's made these clockwork? Can you?
• 2:23:20
  Go and watch. You know they did those little
• 2:23:21
  vignettes for series two. They do explain about them all.
• 2:23:24
  Document that. A bit like Pond life and that in
• 2:23:28
  series 7, right? Go on.
• 2:23:29
  And how does Madame de Pompadour get to read The Doctor's mind?
• 2:23:32
  Apart from the fact there's a bit of convenient plotting as,
• 2:23:36
  as has already been mentioned, completely Waste Mickey coming
• 2:23:38
  on board has nothing to do. Rose is sidelined, so the plot
• 2:23:42
  is non existent and it all depends on one element and I
• 2:23:47
  hate that element. And that element is the
• 2:23:49
  relationship. I do not like or buy the central
• 2:23:53
  relationship between the Doctor and Madame de Pompadour.
• 2:23:57
  Now I don't agree with people that are saying, oh, he's
• 2:23:59
  grooming her, because I see that quite a bit.
• 2:24:01
  I disagree with that because when he sees her as a 7 year
• 2:24:04
  old, he's just intrigued by what's going on.
• 2:24:07
  And so I disagree. With me, he's.
• 2:24:13
  Intrigued by 1. He's.
• 2:24:15
  Very intrigued by what's going on.
• 2:24:17
  Yeah, OK Should we move swiftly on from there?
• 2:24:23
  I made just say he's trying to work out what's going on.
• 2:24:26
  Is that better word? No, please.
• 2:24:28
  Move on, move on from that bit. But he doesn't fall for her
• 2:24:33
  until he meets her when she's 23 when she's an adult.
• 2:24:37
  And that's the scene they they meet and there's just chemistry
• 2:24:41
  straight away. But it plays like a Richard
• 2:24:43
  Curtis film. He feels like Hugh Grant and
• 2:24:45
  Richard. This does not feel like the
• 2:24:47
  Doctor at the end of that first meeting.
• 2:24:49
  Within 60 seconds he's snogging her and bragging about it.
• 2:24:52
  That is not the Doctor I'm going to wave Packards.
• 2:24:55
  This is not my Doctor. Hate that.
• 2:24:58
  We know that he's got love for his companions.
• 2:25:00
  We've just seen Sarah Jane, and we know how close him and Rose
• 2:25:04
  are. And in the future we'll see
• 2:25:05
  River. But I will remind you, and I
• 2:25:07
  know this is the contradiction of Stephen Moffett, but I am
• 2:25:10
  going to remind you what River Song, written by Stephen
• 2:25:13
  Moffett, says about the Doctor. He's the Doctor.
• 2:25:17
  He doesn't go around falling in love with people.
• 2:25:20
  And if you think he's anything that small or that ordinary,
• 2:25:23
  then you haven't the first idea of who you're dealing with that.
• 2:25:26
  River Song Or was that Jason Thompson?
• 2:25:28
  No, that's River Song you. Can never see him together.
• 2:25:32
  No, I've seen Jason Thompson. She's got.
• 2:25:35
  Big hair. You know, part of those wigs.
• 2:25:38
  But here we see the Doctor acting as a teenager.
• 2:25:40
  He's crashing over someone that he's just met literally within
• 2:25:43
  60 seconds, and you cannot use the excuse that he's in awe of
• 2:25:47
  her because of her achievements, which he reels off because he
• 2:25:49
  does that. He finds out who she is after
• 2:25:52
  he's snogged her. I just don't buy the
• 2:25:54
  relationship. That's not what the doctor does,
• 2:25:56
  that it's not my doctor. I don't buy the chemistry.
• 2:25:59
  I don't think Sophia Miles has the range or chemist charisma to
• 2:26:03
  pull it off and the just the whole thing is just
• 2:26:05
  uncomfortable. Teenage crush that isn't.
• 2:26:09
  It's hideous. And the other reason I dislike
• 2:26:12
  it, if you need any more is that please God awful scene where the
• 2:26:15
  doctor pretends to or doesn't pretend to be drunk.
• 2:26:18
  It is just hideous. I love David Turner, but that
• 2:26:22
  scene is so I'll judged. Badly played.
• 2:26:26
  Oh, in summing up, all I'm going to say is David Talent is
• 2:26:29
  allergic to horses, so he struggled filming this episode
• 2:26:32
  with the horse, but he didn't struggle as much as I did
• 2:26:35
  watching the bloody. Thing.
• 2:26:36
  Oh, well done. It is out.
• 2:26:39
  Boys, will you please bring some semblance of normality for this
• 2:26:42
  conversation? Sigh.
• 2:26:46
  Well, I don't like this very much either.
• 2:26:54
  I agree that it is absolutely beautifully made and the
• 2:26:58
  clockwork droids are brilliant and all of that.
• 2:27:03
  But Rod has persuaded me to go to the dark side here, and I
• 2:27:10
  think this is might be Rod's blink for me.
• 2:27:14
  You know how you know my big problem with it is all the way
• 2:27:19
  through we're told that Madame de Pompadour is the one of the
• 2:27:22
  most amazing women who ever lived.
• 2:27:25
  But in no way is this demonstrated throughout the
• 2:27:28
  story at all. She has written really blandly,
• 2:27:33
  I think, and Sophia Miles isn't quite up to playing this
• 2:27:38
  remarkable woman. This is how it feels to me.
• 2:27:41
  I It's a classic show, tell, don't show.
• 2:27:46
  There is no hint of her remarkableness in the scenes
• 2:27:49
  that she's got here. I think again, this is the
• 2:27:54
  season of Store, the story of the Doctor and Rose, and to do
• 2:27:59
  this story in this season feels completely and utterly out of
• 2:28:05
  place. It doesn't work for me because.
• 2:28:09
  And if the doctor can go off and have a relationship and go and
• 2:28:13
  dance, he's dancing with this woman that really, really that
• 2:28:19
  has always really bugged me. It's time for every little boy
• 2:28:22
  has to learn how to dance. Well, fine, but.
• 2:28:26
  Is it too late to phone up Fraser Gregory and happen on
• 2:28:28
  this one? But you know, I just, I just
• 2:28:33
  feel that if this is the grand love story between the Doctor
• 2:28:37
  and his companion that we've been told, then she should have
• 2:28:40
  severe warning bells going off at this point, that he could
• 2:28:43
  just go off and have this relationship with someone else,
• 2:28:47
  you know? And the thing that that this
• 2:28:51
  time really bugged me was the fact that the Doctor uses the
• 2:28:56
  the windows to walk through and so obviously he can't ever go
• 2:29:00
  back and meet her. If he was so that much in love
• 2:29:02
  with her, why didn't he just get in the TARDIS and go and see
• 2:29:06
  her? You know, there is no reason
• 2:29:09
  whatsoever that he couldn't. And I know you can say that for
• 2:29:13
  a lot of Doctor Who stories that he could just jump in the TARDIS
• 2:29:15
  and sort this, but in this story particularly, there is
• 2:29:18
  absolutely no way that he could just not go back and see her.
• 2:29:24
  If he loved her that much, then that doesn't ring true.
• 2:29:29
  But the music is absolutely beautiful.
• 2:29:33
  The Clockwork Droids are one of the most beautiful creations in
• 2:29:36
  the whole of Doctor Who. I think they look magnificent
• 2:29:38
  and they're a real brilliant Moffat threads of something that
• 2:29:42
  is quite mundane, that you hear the ticking and you know they're
• 2:29:46
  there. That works brilliantly, but the
• 2:29:48
  whole thing doesn't quite come together.
• 2:29:51
  Although I did like the Tales of the Unexpected twist at the end,
• 2:29:55
  I thought that was nice, like. Even if you say it's like it's
• 2:30:00
  got style over substance, I don't think there's many Doctor
• 2:30:02
  Who stories that have this much style I is.
• 2:30:06
  Maybe not. It is.
• 2:30:07
  It is beautiful. But again, some of the effects
• 2:30:10
  work isn't quite where they need it to be, and the horse crashing
• 2:30:13
  through the mirror doesn't really come off.
• 2:30:18
  But they tried. And I'm not going to damn Doctor
• 2:30:20
  Who because an effect doesn't work.
• 2:30:23
  But when you're hinging your hero moment around that, you've
• 2:30:27
  got to be sure you're going to be able to do this.
• 2:30:30
  I never thought I'd be the Please Mark.
• 2:30:32
  I didn't think I'd be the one person defending the One Steven
• 2:30:35
  Moffett episode. It's already out.
• 2:30:37
  It's already out. Sign.
• 2:30:38
  Sign. Mia voted it out.
• 2:30:41
  Well, I I mean only only Doctor Who can weave historical France
• 2:30:47
  and this sci-fi spaceship made out of body parts together.
• 2:30:49
  And I think it's beautifully woven together, like a tapestry
• 2:30:53
  at the Palace of Versailles, I think.
• 2:30:56
  It's wonderful, very good. I mean this is Castrovalva, but.
• 2:31:03
  I mean, this is Stephen Moffitt's draft, one of
• 2:31:05
  Riversong Time Traveller's Wife. That was my.
• 2:31:08
  First night we only. Needed.
• 2:31:11
  We only needed this draft. I think.
• 2:31:15
  I don't. I think the Doctor is just, I
• 2:31:18
  don't think he's in love with her.
• 2:31:19
  I think he's just excited to me. He's just made this connection.
• 2:31:23
  It's not like this huge love story.
• 2:31:26
  And then there's the. Tragedy that that he can't
• 2:31:33
  control the times that they they see each other.
• 2:31:35
  I I just really like that idea. The ending, don't you think?
• 2:31:39
  The ending is quite emotional. I think it's a really sad ending
• 2:31:42
  where he goes back and and and she's gone.
• 2:31:46
  Understood. I liked that.
• 2:31:47
  Because whether it's a lover or whether it's a friend.
• 2:31:50
  Yeah, I think he's just treating her as just someone amazing that
• 2:31:54
  he's met in history. I've.
• 2:31:57
  She leads him off by the hand to go and dance like sizes it's so.
• 2:32:01
  No. No, we're going to have
• 2:32:04
  adventures together. It's not.
• 2:32:06
  We're going to have adventures together and fuck is we're going
• 2:32:08
  to go and see the stars. Yeah he's dare just like he's
• 2:32:10
  that's how I'm. Taking companions.
• 2:32:11
  That's how I'm taking. It.
• 2:32:12
  I think you guys are just a bit kinky.
• 2:32:14
  That's. Sorry, Mark.
• 2:32:18
  And and it's and after especially coming after and
• 2:32:22
  Sarah Jane Rose is just sidelined and she's not aware of
• 2:32:25
  this sort of tragic relationship playing out through time.
• 2:32:28
  She's just she's sidelined, left to just in the spaceship for
• 2:32:32
  like, I don't know, five hours or something.
• 2:32:34
  She says, well, this whole relationship, this whole, you
• 2:32:38
  know, years and years of Renette's life and the Doctor
• 2:32:41
  has has gone by. I think that's a really great
• 2:32:43
  idea and the robots are beautiful design.
• 2:32:47
  So I I I like. This one.
• 2:32:50
  And the costumes and the location work.
• 2:32:53
  And the lighting. Oh, it's gorgeous.
• 2:32:56
  Oh, here he comes, the oncoming storm.
• 2:33:01
  Yeah, but I'm watching a story. I want to believe in the story
• 2:33:03
  and the character. I'm not sat there looking at
• 2:33:05
  moving wallpaper. So yeah, it looks beautiful, but
• 2:33:08
  I want some substance. And the substance here is shite.
• 2:33:12
  Never before in the history of Strictly I believe that have
• 2:33:16
  your and my opinion they've been so opposed.
• 2:33:19
  To say this has no substance is insanity.
• 2:33:24
  In your opinion. In my opinion.
• 2:33:28
  Well, there we go. So girl in the fireplace is the
• 2:33:31
  second one to fall. Wow, Just behind fear.
• 2:33:33
  Love you, Anna. You.
• 2:33:38
  Praise of the incarnation. It's incandescent.
• 2:33:41
  At the moment. It's just third.
• 2:33:44
  About to go out and murder 4 kittens.
• 2:33:49
  Right. Should we do the last set of
• 2:33:52
  comments before we come to the last two stories?
• 2:33:54
  So. Back to Mark and Si.
• 2:33:57
  Ian Winterton says a bloody marvellous season and 1:00.
• 2:34:00
  I've watched over and over again with all three of my kids as
• 2:34:03
  they've grown up after the miracle of season one.
• 2:34:06
  This cemented the show's return and launched it into the
• 2:34:10
  stratosphere, where it stayed until the RTD era ended.
• 2:34:17
  Big Orange Michael says. I was intrigued to see where
• 2:34:21
  knew who would go when this was first broadcast.
• 2:34:23
  I'd say it's a bit of a mixed run.
• 2:34:25
  I find the first half more satisfying than the second.
• 2:34:28
  There's an early darkness to Tenant's Doctor that isn't there
• 2:34:31
  later in the series, Mega Slippers says.
• 2:34:36
  I was 12 when it came out, so it's brilliant.
• 2:34:40
  It's very difficult to breakthrough the thick lacquer
• 2:34:43
  of nostalgia to begin criticism beyond.
• 2:34:46
  I don't like the girl in the fireplace as much as other fans
• 2:34:48
  seem to. The idiot's Lantern was a
• 2:34:50
  shitter, though. I still can't.
• 2:34:56
  Quite. Get over here.
• 2:34:57
  And you swear? Crashed Dummy says it's
• 2:35:02
  definitely the weakest RTD season and Tennant and Rose were
• 2:35:05
  much too toxic together. They are point blank bullies.
• 2:35:10
  At one point I've mellowed to some fun episodes and the final
• 2:35:13
  two Parter is brilliant, almost redeeming the whole series and
• 2:35:18
  Matt Dennis says don't get the hate.
• 2:35:19
  This series has suddenly started getting.
• 2:35:22
  Series two has a perfect character arc that is laden with
• 2:35:25
  hubris scattered throughout some fab stories that really test the
• 2:35:28
  Doctor and Rose emotionally. Dan Hollingsworth says I love
• 2:35:33
  Series 2, but the dynamic duos descend into smugness and we're
• 2:35:39
  so good at space-time. Adventuring can be a bit much at
• 2:35:42
  times. Some great episodes though.
• 2:35:44
  Lovely to have Graham Harper back directing the show.
• 2:35:48
  Dave Rennie says it wasn't a bad season.
• 2:35:51
  It's just not as good as the other Four Seasons in RTD.
• 2:35:54
  One the best is the impossible Planet two-part a very deep look
• 2:35:58
  at faith, fear and the soul. Andy Parkinson says what was on
• 2:36:04
  initial viewing, a good season. I now find myself skipping, Pete
• 2:36:12
  Lambert says. They're both so smug and
• 2:36:14
  annoying getting a lift with them, never mind explore the
• 2:36:18
  universe. She's not your Sarah Jane.
• 2:36:20
  Leave the little girl alone, you creepy weirdo.
• 2:36:23
  I was on my way to my wedding. Gareth.
• 2:36:32
  Bowley says the Doctor and Rose are insufferable and the stories
• 2:36:36
  are embarrassing. Insufferable.
• 2:36:40
  And Osian, Thomas says, truly underrated.
• 2:36:43
  I understand that it has. It has some stinkers like the
• 2:36:46
  idiots Lantern and Fear Her. But past that you've got
• 2:36:50
  episodes which are brilliant. Also, I can't see the hate for
• 2:36:54
  Rose, but I do enjoy the dynamic between her and Tennant and Dan
• 2:37:00
  Pin. Series 2 firmly established
• 2:37:04
  Doctor Who in the public consciousness, building on the
• 2:37:06
  success of the previous series. I love this on 1st viewing.
• 2:37:10
  Definitely more hits than misses.
• 2:37:12
  However, I'm glad we only had one series of 10 and rows.
• 2:37:16
  Fabulous. So we are back to our final two
• 2:37:19
  stories. So we've got Rise of the
• 2:37:21
  Cybermen and New Earth. Mark, it's back to you.
• 2:37:25
  Which do you want to select? OK, I'm going to talk about New
• 2:37:28
  Earth. That sounded very much through
• 2:37:31
  gritty teeth. Well, it's not the strongest
• 2:37:35
  start to a series, is it really. Did we need a follow up with
• 2:37:41
  Cassandra? I don't think we did.
• 2:37:45
  Character options did. Oh yeah.
• 2:37:47
  I mean for the merchandising maybe bring down.
• 2:37:51
  Woolworths. I thought it's just more of the
• 2:37:54
  same stuff with Cassandra again and you've got this body swap
• 2:37:58
  storyline. We've only just had Tenon rows
• 2:38:02
  together in the Christmas Invasion and now they're
• 2:38:04
  completely apart, half playing different characters half the
• 2:38:07
  time. It's doesn't look particularly
• 2:38:12
  great, I don't think. I think it's quite a silly
• 2:38:15
  solution where the Doctor gets all this random bags of colored
• 2:38:19
  liquid and they've got they've he's going down the lift just
• 2:38:23
  purely for some action in this story.
• 2:38:27
  What He washes a couple of the zombie people and then and then
• 2:38:31
  if one has to touch each other and then suddenly they're cured
• 2:38:34
  and you've got all these like bemused extras sort of walking
• 2:38:38
  around being like you're I'll you're I'll no you're better
• 2:38:41
  now. You're better now.
• 2:38:42
  Now look look like you're you're OK now.
• 2:38:45
  Anyone who says he can't write an ending is talking.
• 2:38:47
  Nonsense, aren't they? It's.
• 2:38:49
  Just a bit silly and and you've got the face of Beau, who just
• 2:38:52
  appears just because it's part of the story arc for for much,
• 2:38:55
  much later on. Why is the face of Beau there
• 2:38:58
  anyway? Because he just says it's one
• 2:39:00
  line and then zaps out of there doesn't make that any.
• 2:39:03
  Sense to me enigmatic if you ask me.
• 2:39:06
  And yeah, I just don't really like the the comedy in this at
• 2:39:12
  all. You have to remember Mark is
• 2:39:15
  Mark is not a fan of the Graham Williams era, so this camp
• 2:39:17
  comedy is not issued. At all.
• 2:39:19
  It's not the right so I I just don't think it should have
• 2:39:21
  started the season in this way. Do you like Doctor Who, Mark, by
• 2:39:24
  the way? I just.
• 2:39:25
  Need to do. I just didn't realise when I
• 2:39:27
  watched this series back. Excuse me, You just said to go
• 2:39:30
  on a fireplace was amazing. Thank you very much.
• 2:39:32
  It's just a bit of a cheap run around hey, but yeah, I didn't
• 2:39:37
  realise series back how many that I wouldn't enjoy on on more
• 2:39:42
  repeat viewing. Ah dude, as we were watching
• 2:39:44
  them. Shall we go to the comments?
• 2:39:47
  Jack Coyer said. Tricky to judge is episode one,
• 2:39:50
  because really it's just a filler.
• 2:39:52
  Episode 2 and as such it's fine. Strange to get 10 and playing a
• 2:39:56
  different character so quickly, but it's a decent comedy
• 2:39:58
  showcase for him and Billy. Bit of a convenient solution
• 2:40:01
  unfortunately. Neil and Reese, Just 18 months
• 2:40:04
  prior, you couldn't imagine seeing anything like this on
• 2:40:07
  British TV. At the time it was big, brash
• 2:40:09
  sci-fi. That's both camp and touching.
• 2:40:12
  Sure, the ending doesn't hold together, but who cares?
• 2:40:14
  Stephen B said New Earth isn't a good Doctor Who episode, but 9
• 2:40:18
  million people don't care. They won't see this new Doctor
• 2:40:21
  and Rose get on and well just look at them.
• 2:40:23
  We get space reasons. This allow the we to not count
• 2:40:27
  their kiss but the not we get to see them.
• 2:40:29
  Snog also love that textbook, enigmatic line.
• 2:40:33
  Of course he loved it. Fraser Gregory.
• 2:40:36
  A perfectly reasonable lightweight run around to break
• 2:40:39
  the new Doctor in properly. Not much to it, but just doesn't
• 2:40:43
  need to be. Keep it.
• 2:40:44
  Daniel Rawnsley says it's a secret favorite of mine,
• 2:40:47
  endlessly quotable, and contains one of Billy Piper's best
• 2:40:51
  performances. John Benzalia, who I'm going to
• 2:40:54
  predict, didn't enjoy this I. Would say.
• 2:40:57
  So any goodwill instantly vanishes.
• 2:40:59
  Superficially it looks good, but the turbid, turgid, uninspired
• 2:41:02
  plot is paper thin RT DS cut price.
• 2:41:05
  Austin Powers dialogue takes the Cringeometer to new levels of
• 2:41:09
  desperation, while Tennant already stumbles, failing to
• 2:41:13
  manage rage or humour. Michael Storm says a stronger
• 2:41:17
  opening for than usual for RTD and the post title scenes
• 2:41:20
  suggest this is sometimes later than leaving the Powell estate,
• 2:41:24
  judging by the Doctor and Rose's relaxed banter.
• 2:41:26
  It's also a rarity in TV who that it's a body swap story.
• 2:41:30
  David Gillespie Pratt Worse than a bunch, Tony's all over the
• 2:41:33
  place, with some effects well below the standard we've seen.
• 2:41:36
  James H says space medicine, courtesy of Terry Nation, works
• 2:41:40
  very differently to Earth medicine.
• 2:41:42
  But when the story is this much fun, it doesn't matter.
• 2:41:45
  James Sorry. Lucy McCall.
• 2:41:47
  James McCall. The end was surprising and
• 2:41:50
  moving, but I began to lose patience with all the body
• 2:41:52
  swapping. And Daniel Knight says better
• 2:41:54
  than its reputation. Some of the comedy is good, some
• 2:41:57
  not so good. But we have a nice conclusion to
• 2:41:59
  Cassandra character. Plus, Billy Piper wears a wonder
• 2:42:03
  bra. Can I just ask, did did anybody
• 2:42:06
  on this call notice or care about the Wonder Bra?
• 2:42:09
  You're talking to the wrong audience.
• 2:42:11
  So wrong demographic. Luke Malloy, Dylan Reese, Daniel
• 2:42:14
  Knight, Fraser Gregory. If they were on this call, they
• 2:42:17
  would all notice. Yeah.
• 2:42:18
  Can I take this one? You can take that one, Joe.
• 2:42:21
  I think this is one of the worst episodes of RTD one by a country
• 2:42:27
  mile, for all the reasons Mark said there.
• 2:42:29
  I do think this. When I watched this, I was
• 2:42:32
  appalled at how dated it looks and I was like, oh God, it's the
• 2:42:37
  whole set. And then we went to soup and
• 2:42:39
  claw. I was like, oh thank God, my
• 2:42:41
  memory wasn't completely, you know, wrong.
• 2:42:45
  Some of this looks terrible. The direct is this.
• 2:42:47
  Who does this, James? George Straightforward.
• 2:42:49
  Believable. All the stuff that's done in
• 2:42:52
  that weird wing of the hospital, which is just some back stock
• 2:42:56
  room somewhere with a load of pipes, it just looks terrible
• 2:43:00
  and the hospital itself looks really cheap.
• 2:43:02
  I think the CGI doesn't look too great when they're on the hill,
• 2:43:05
  everything's clearly and those weird cartoony cars coming in
• 2:43:09
  like this has dated really, really badly.
• 2:43:12
  And the picture grading as well, the lighting makes it look very
• 2:43:15
  cheap. All the yeah.
• 2:43:16
  So I was really unimpressed by just generally the production
• 2:43:19
  value on this. I think it was a stupid move to
• 2:43:23
  have Tenant not take part in his first episode and then be in a
• 2:43:28
  body swap episode for his second episode.
• 2:43:31
  So it isn't until Tooth and Claw we actually get a forward
• 2:43:34
  venture with his doctor. That is a really baffling
• 2:43:37
  choice. As fun as he's having with it.
• 2:43:39
  And I like the camps. All that, oh, I'm beating out a
• 2:43:42
  sun bar, you know, I like all that stuff.
• 2:43:44
  But it is a weird choice. And how RTD can usually straddle
• 2:43:50
  tones really confidently. But he goes from like high
• 2:43:54
  comedy to horror to tragedy in this, and it jars.
• 2:44:01
  There's something. He's just not got a through line
• 2:44:03
  with it and I'm not quite sure what it is.
• 2:44:06
  I think I agree with Mark that Cassandra is not as good as in
• 2:44:08
  her first story. She was the highlight of the end
• 2:44:11
  of the world. You know, acidic barbs.
• 2:44:13
  She was the right cow bag her and Bros together.
• 2:44:16
  So two cow bags together, the TV just lit up.
• 2:44:18
  Whereas in this she gets some good lines, but it's not Zoe
• 2:44:24
  want to make a play there for the most part and that was the
• 2:44:26
  joy of her in into the world. So watching everyone do sort of
• 2:44:29
  cod Zoe want to make her impressions.
• 2:44:32
  It's just nowhere near as fun, That dreadful performance from
• 2:44:36
  that woman climbing up the lift shaft.
• 2:44:39
  Do you remember her? She's going to air.
• 2:44:41
  My God, I'm disgusting. It's like it's awful.
• 2:44:48
  I want to say. I think the final scene where
• 2:44:50
  Chip goes up to her and says that you're beautiful, that's
• 2:44:53
  one of the best scenes in the Rusty Davis era and it's it's so
• 2:44:57
  movingly played and sure. But it's got.
• 2:45:01
  Fuck. All to do with the rest of the
• 2:45:02
  episode In isolation. That is an amazing scene.
• 2:45:07
  It's it's weird. It's not as funny as it seems to
• 2:45:09
  think it is. It's not as sexy as it seems to
• 2:45:12
  think it is. Yeah, that fucking ending with
• 2:45:16
  all those medicines. What the hell is that all about?
• 2:45:20
  I mean, I've seen some lame endings to Doctor Who's stories,
• 2:45:23
  but that is potentially the worst.
• 2:45:26
  The most insulting at least, you know?
• 2:45:29
  And I'll sat through the wedding of River Song.
• 2:45:31
  But this is worse than that. Well, I've sat through a record.
• 2:45:34
  It's in the UK, so there. We go kill the spiders.
• 2:45:38
  No. No.
• 2:45:40
  Out there. No, it's got to go this this is
• 2:45:42
  RT DS weakest script I think by mile.
• 2:45:44
  Oh, I. Can't disagree with anything
• 2:45:48
  I've review have said it's it's really not good at all.
• 2:45:54
  But if we're going to look for some positives, because there
• 2:45:58
  are some positives. The cat nuns look brilliant and
• 2:46:00
  they're really well played. They're 3 brilliant actresses
• 2:46:03
  playing those two of whom we will see again, one in the same
• 2:46:07
  role, one brilliantly as as Martha Jones's mother.
• 2:46:12
  So you have fair play to Russell.
• 2:46:14
  He gave her something better to do.
• 2:46:17
  Another cow bag, he writes. Amazing cow he does.
• 2:46:22
  I quite like Billy playing Cassandra.
• 2:46:24
  I think she does that that quite well and she's having fun with
• 2:46:28
  it. And I do like those early scenes
• 2:46:30
  where they're both going up in the lift and poor old roses
• 2:46:32
  coming out looking haggard and wet and having, and the doctor
• 2:46:37
  comes out looking smart and wonderful.
• 2:46:39
  I think those are good. It's lovely to see the lift
• 2:46:42
  going up shot again from series one and you've seen that again
• 2:46:45
  throughout the season. They've got some.
• 2:46:47
  Good money out of that, didn't. They, yeah.
• 2:46:50
  But they're Hanford by bad weather when they're trying to
• 2:46:53
  pretend they're having this wonderful time with apple grass
• 2:46:57
  and the wind is blowing and the rain is howling in their faces.
• 2:47:01
  And it's absolutely they should have just written that off and
• 2:47:05
  done that in a studio and done some scenes in the studio,
• 2:47:08
  because it doesn't look good. It doesn't sell it.
• 2:47:11
  And as much as they're they're trying their best, Poor old
• 2:47:15
  David Tennant and Billy Piper are, yes, are saddled with that,
• 2:47:19
  and it's not good. So no, it's a misfire.
• 2:47:23
  But it does get a great sequel. And so for that reason, it's we
• 2:47:30
  it's worth having. But yeah, it's been it from me.
• 2:47:34
  So New Earth is going to fall. OK, well, I was going to give
• 2:47:37
  this a pass because I hear what I hear what you're saying, and I
• 2:47:40
  agree with a lot of what you're saying.
• 2:47:42
  It does look surprisingly cheap and so overlapped, I think a few
• 2:47:47
  stories this season. I've struggled with being really
• 2:47:50
  overlit and some things, even Army of Ghosts and Doomsday have
• 2:47:53
  scenes that are really, really brightly lit.
• 2:47:56
  But because of the pace and the energy and the storytelling
• 2:48:00
  that's going on there, we kind of ignore it a little bit
• 2:48:03
  because it fades into the background amongst everything
• 2:48:06
  else here. I think it's it's more prominent
• 2:48:09
  and I absolutely hear what you're saying.
• 2:48:10
  But for me, I maybe I took it slightly differently than you
• 2:48:14
  guys. Not when I've revisited an awful
• 2:48:15
  lot. I'm re watching it again for
• 2:48:18
  this with a critical eye on. It wasn't as it wasn't as light
• 2:48:22
  and frothy as many others RTD openers because it has got that
• 2:48:26
  seriousness is making all the inferences about animal
• 2:48:29
  experimentation with all the people with the plague.
• 2:48:31
  So there's a bit of a message going on there which is slightly
• 2:48:34
  different to his usual kind of opening episode, Stick with
• 2:48:37
  Judoon or Adipose. So it's got a little bit more
• 2:48:40
  to. I think he quite balances the
• 2:48:42
  storylines between something the fair is going on in the hospital
• 2:48:46
  and the return of Cassandra and the face of Beau.
• 2:48:48
  I kind of think he balances them quite well, but I can accept
• 2:48:52
  what you guys are saying. I find it generally quite funny.
• 2:48:56
  I agree with you. So I think Rose, Billy plays it
• 2:48:58
  really well. Look at me, I'm a chaff.
• 2:49:01
  I think she does that really well.
• 2:49:04
  Overdone. It is about overdone, but it's
• 2:49:06
  an opening episode and openers tend to be a little bit broader.
• 2:49:10
  So yeah, I quite like it. The disinfectant in the lift,
• 2:49:13
  that is very funny. When they first get it again,
• 2:49:15
  it's another Chekovs gun because that's the solution at the end.
• 2:49:18
  So it's kind of hidden in plain sight, which is quite nice.
• 2:49:22
  I think David Tennant plays it quite well and he has got some
• 2:49:26
  scenes later on in this series where he falls over horribly,
• 2:49:29
  Ghostbusters being one, and obviously the drunk scene in The
• 2:49:32
  Girl in the Fireplace. But here I think he plays it
• 2:49:35
  quite well. He's got the swagger, he's got
• 2:49:36
  the compassion, he shows a bit of anger, he's got the
• 2:49:39
  quirkiness, but it's quite toned down quirkiness when he's
• 2:49:42
  looking for a little shop. Like you said.
• 2:49:44
  Again, there's great, great makeup.
• 2:49:47
  Yeah, generally, I I quite like it.
• 2:49:50
  I wouldn't say it was the greatest episode, but I'd be
• 2:49:52
  prepared to give it a pass. But I understand it's being
• 2:49:55
  evicted. So out it goes.
• 2:49:59
  So, sigh, we come to you. You have got Rise of the
• 2:50:02
  Cybermen and the Age of Steel. Right.
• 2:50:06
  This one I found to be a surprising stinker.
• 2:50:11
  I was not impressed with this on the rewatch at all.
• 2:50:15
  I think there are are huge missteps and huge things that
• 2:50:18
  are problems. The way that Mickey is treated
• 2:50:21
  is absolutely awful. He is treated appallingly and
• 2:50:25
  this is the Doctor and Rose at their worst.
• 2:50:28
  I think a that scene at the start of the the story where
• 2:50:34
  he's made to hold the switch while they tell their wonderful
• 2:50:37
  story about how brilliant things are, They're horrible to him.
• 2:50:41
  And then when Rose runs off and and Mickey quite rightly says oh
• 2:50:47
  it's always her and never me and it and the fact that he might
• 2:50:51
  have some emotional attachment to someone.
• 2:50:54
  I think that they even discount that that could possibly be a
• 2:50:59
  thing is really it's really awful writing and a lot of this
• 2:51:04
  I think has a lot of really terrible clunky writing that was
• 2:51:11
  contrast with the elegance of the other two parters in this
• 2:51:16
  year. I'm I'm not sure all of this
• 2:51:18
  quite works sort of is pulled off.
• 2:51:21
  So the idea of the cyber memorizing here is is good but
• 2:51:26
  we're not we're sort of straight into this parallel earth and the
• 2:51:32
  first thing Rose sees is her dad.
• 2:51:34
  I the chances of that are oh wow, you know and you just think
• 2:51:41
  there are more elegant ways you could have done this.
• 2:51:44
  But it's a parallel world of course and and stuff.
• 2:51:48
  But I think what really hampers the cyber men's story is Roger
• 2:51:52
  Lloyd Pack. I'm sorry, that is an absolutely
• 2:51:56
  appalling, unthought through performance and how they let him
• 2:52:01
  get away from. It please do the lion side
• 2:52:03
  please. Body of steel And how will you
• 2:52:09
  do that from beyond the brave? I'm.
• 2:52:14
  Just what I was thinking as I was watching it give that part
• 2:52:19
  to Dom Warrington and give Roger Lloyd Pack the president role
• 2:52:25
  and this would have been instantly much better because
• 2:52:29
  Don Warrington is so bloody good.
• 2:52:32
  Remember his rattle on in Big Fish?
• 2:52:33
  You know his. Azelon so I just come away and
• 2:52:40
  and also right. So if we're talking about
• 2:52:43
  performances, I'm also going to single out Noel Clark who
• 2:52:45
  usually gets a bit of a pass but his performance as Ricky is is
• 2:52:52
  appalling. It's.
• 2:52:54
  Oh God, he just. Remises his way for it.
• 2:52:56
  It's played so broadly, and this is back to season one.
• 2:53:02
  Mickey in Aliens of London. It's a performance that hasn't
• 2:53:05
  been fought out and Graham Harper is usually all over this
• 2:53:09
  stuff and I don't know whether it's just there is too much
• 2:53:12
  going on that he can't keep a handle on all of it.
• 2:53:16
  And maybe his confidence at coming back to Doctor Who has
• 2:53:19
  risen by the time he does Army of Ghosts and Doomsday, which is
• 2:53:23
  directly after this. Maybe he's a bit more in the
• 2:53:29
  groove by then, but maybe this is just a bit too ambitious.
• 2:53:33
  Also, I'm going to say the stump.
• 2:53:36
  Although I love the design of the Cybermen, I think they look
• 2:53:40
  beautiful. The stompingness of them is
• 2:53:44
  absolutely awful. And the thing that made the
• 2:53:46
  Cybermen when I was little, that I remember from, from the Target
• 2:53:51
  books and from Earth Shop, is that they're quiet and they're
• 2:53:54
  in the background and they're not clunk, clunk, clunk like a
• 2:53:58
  clockwork robot that I had when I was, was was young.
• 2:54:03
  I think that's a terrible misstep and we're saddled with
• 2:54:06
  that for years after this because of that decision.
• 2:54:10
  And they're just stomping robots with brain human brains put into
• 2:54:14
  them. And they're not proper Cybermen.
• 2:54:17
  But on the plus side, Missus Moore is great, and I really
• 2:54:21
  like her. That scene where the cyber Man's
• 2:54:25
  emotions are turned off echoes arts of spare parts.
• 2:54:30
  But as a genesis of the Cybermen story, it's not as good as it
• 2:54:34
  should be. And yeah, I just come away
• 2:54:39
  thinking, why? Why, Rose, are you in floods of
• 2:54:43
  tears at Mickey leaving when you've treated him so absolutely
• 2:54:48
  appallingly? I mean that's I'm not sold on
• 2:54:51
  that at all and I'm not sold on this story.
• 2:54:54
  I'd have more respect for him if he turned around and went.
• 2:54:57
  You know what? You're a bitch.
• 2:54:58
  I'm going. He's got a better off with Jake
• 2:55:02
  though, hasn't he? So.
• 2:55:04
  They. Cut the line though, didn't they
• 2:55:05
  they? Did Really.
• 2:55:06
  Yeah. Sign of the Times.
• 2:55:08
  So Yep, so this one I'm binning, I'm afraid.
• 2:55:12
  Right, let's go to our last set of comments Fraser.
• 2:55:14
  Gregory is going to agree with you Sir.
• 2:55:17
  He says RTD does his best with the chilling scene of a Cyberman
• 2:55:21
  remembering their pre conversion life, but otherwise the cybers
• 2:55:24
  are done wrong. Lumbering generic robots Trigger
• 2:55:28
  brings value, as does the alternative Earth, but still
• 2:55:31
  amiss. Bennett.
• 2:55:33
  Stephen B Sheer Spectacle. And why shouldn't it be?
• 2:55:36
  Cyber came to mean something additional in 2006, and the
• 2:55:39
  threat of the rise of the Cybermen from our own Internet
• 2:55:42
  and comms technology is all the more credible now than hit
• 2:55:47
  peddlers biotech Angle could first imagine.
• 2:55:50
  Daniel Knight says a bit of a blockbuster lacking in depth.
• 2:55:53
  Well directed by Graham Harper, but Roger Lloyd Park is
• 2:55:56
  terrible. Dylan.
• 2:56:01
  Dylan. Ruth I have always and always
• 2:56:04
  will love this story. Seeing those vast armies and
• 2:56:06
  side men was something I couldn't have imagined in my
• 2:56:09
  fanboy dreams. Some of the most gripping Doctor
• 2:56:11
  Who I'd ever seen. Dylan Rees has mentioned his
• 2:56:14
  dreams an awful lot. He had a fever dream before.
• 2:56:16
  He's now got dreams about Cyberman getting a little bit
• 2:56:19
  worried about Dylan. Oh, do I get John Bensale?
• 2:56:22
  Yeah, sorry John. Here we go.
• 2:56:24
  Reaching for epic movie and failing way short despite Graham
• 2:56:28
  Harper's ace direction. Too many knuckles, suckingly
• 2:56:31
  awful lines, panto villain Lumic Rose and Tennant channelling
• 2:56:36
  Magnus Pike, and Murray Gold's abysmal score makes this
• 2:56:40
  unintentionally laughable. James Age Basically No relation
• 2:56:44
  to spare parts yet Mark Platt gets a mention in the credits,
• 2:56:47
  presumably because RTD wanted to share the blame.
• 2:56:50
  Sean Best. Chad Coya says this is a great
• 2:56:55
  techno thriller showing a world where the Doctor and Rose don't
• 2:56:58
  seem to be present. A fitting exit for Mickey, who
• 2:57:01
  finally gets the hint. The scene where the homeless
• 2:57:04
  people get scooped up to be converted.
• 2:57:06
  Devastated 10 year old Jack. Michael Storm an average run
• 2:57:10
  around with Roger Lloyd Pack packing in a performance that
• 2:57:13
  makes pull back all Darrow look restrained.
• 2:57:16
  Here we get the thing of Russ T Davis trying to build on the
• 2:57:19
  success of Are You My Mummy? As a catch phrase with delayed.
• 2:57:24
  And finally, Dan Hollingsworth says the new Cybermen look
• 2:57:27
  excellent, but make me yearn for the quiet, sinister 60 ones.
• 2:57:30
  Please, no delete, catch phrase. So, mark.
• 2:57:36
  Mr. Happy, are you? Are you in or out with Rise for
• 2:57:42
  Cyberman? Well, I was surprised going back
• 2:57:45
  to this because it's a Graham Harper and I think we all high
• 2:57:50
  hold him in high esteem as a great director of Doctor Who.
• 2:57:53
  But yeah, I was disappointed. I mean, performances.
• 2:58:00
  Yep. Roger Ludpak, He's no Kevin
• 2:58:03
  Stoney, is he? He's more.
• 2:58:04
  He's no Chloe Webber, is he? More of a barrel.
• 2:58:08
  Read than a Kevin Stoney in terms of cyber people, but also
• 2:58:14
  Colin Spall. I thought he was pretty
• 2:58:17
  dreadful. Colin Spall, My mates Graham
• 2:58:19
  Harper, I think when it's Roger Lloyd Pack and Colin School
• 2:58:24
  together. Both scenes.
• 2:58:26
  Are so. Just.
• 2:58:29
  So cringe worthy. I really.
• 2:58:31
  Yeah, I just couldn't. Couldn't watch that the stuff
• 2:58:35
  with Rose and her dad. I mean, we've gone through a lot
• 2:58:38
  of stuff with Father's Day in the previous series.
• 2:58:40
  Did we need to sort of go over that ground again, the parallel
• 2:58:45
  world. It's an interesting idea but I
• 2:58:48
  feel like the way to go with a a genesis Cyberman story is world
• 2:58:53
  enough. In time.
• 2:58:54
  If it was that kind of world that they'd gone into I feel
• 2:58:59
  like, and and they had that more of a darker atmosphere something
• 2:59:03
  like that can. I interject for a second what is
• 2:59:05
  so great about the genesis of the Cybermen in World Enough in
• 2:59:08
  Time, because I agree it's a great episode.
• 2:59:11
  I don't think it at all tells the genesis of the Cybermen.
• 2:59:15
  It just shows like a load of Cybermen being converted, which
• 2:59:18
  is exactly what this episode shows.
• 2:59:21
  No, but yeah, but then that that's showing like the the
• 2:59:24
  population needing to do that, that's the, you know, the
• 2:59:27
  original idea of the of the Cybermen.
• 2:59:28
  This is just Roger Lloyd Pack. Yeah.
• 2:59:31
  Rounding loads of people, rounding people up and turning
• 2:59:34
  trees, churning out, Yeah, that's terrifying.
• 2:59:38
  No, no, that's not. OK.
• 2:59:40
  I'm so sorry. No.
• 2:59:41
  And maybe this could have been a more effective, just one parter
• 2:59:45
  taking out some of the the Tyler stuff, maybe taking out some of
• 2:59:50
  the Mickey stuff and and tightened it up a little bit
• 2:59:52
  more as a as a action-packed one parter rather than two, I don't
• 2:59:57
  think. I really didn't enjoy this
• 3:00:01
  actually this time around. So sorry.
• 3:00:05
  I'm gonna go for this one to save Joe, to make this casting
• 3:00:09
  vote, cuz I'm gonna save this one.
• 3:00:12
  I quite like this being a genesis to Cyberman, because
• 3:00:14
  obviously we've referenced in the series and we go on to
• 3:00:17
  reference the Cybermen evolve in every community at every time,
• 3:00:21
  So we're in a parallel world. So why aren't they slightly
• 3:00:23
  different takes on Cyberman? I think that's perfectly
• 3:00:26
  justified in dialect. Obviously, Russell reintroduced
• 3:00:29
  the dialects by having just one here.
• 3:00:31
  He brings the Cyberman back in a Genesis story, which is a
• 3:00:33
  different way of doing it. And obviously, we've just done
• 3:00:35
  our Season 22 commentary and unlike Attack of the Cybermen,
• 3:00:41
  which we've just recently suffered through, which mined
• 3:00:45
  all the previous cyber stories, I think this focuses on lots of
• 3:00:48
  the elements of the Cybermen which make them quite unique.
• 3:00:51
  So I disagree with you. I think we do see the reason
• 3:00:53
  coming in for being and yes, it is because Roger patloid Lumic
• 3:00:57
  is trying to extend his life, but that's a perfectly
• 3:01:00
  justifiable way. That's what Kit Paddlers
• 3:01:01
  original Genesis, the Cyberman was was to replace parts that
• 3:01:05
  aren't working in the human body with cybernetic parts.
• 3:01:09
  So I think it's completely in keeping.
• 3:01:11
  You see the conversions. The conversions are really
• 3:01:14
  graphic. I don't think we've ever seen
• 3:01:15
  conversions done more graphically.
• 3:01:17
  I love the implacability of the Cyberman.
• 3:01:19
  There's a brilliant scene where they're chasing Ricky and Mickey
• 3:01:23
  through the streets and they kill Ricky and there's just a
• 3:01:26
  moment of complete silence, the music.
• 3:01:30
  And you just see their eyes looking through the face.
• 3:01:33
  I think that is such a chilling scene because it just stops
• 3:01:35
  everything and they hold on silence for a while.
• 3:01:38
  I think that's brilliant. And then Mickey runs away again
• 3:01:41
  in silence. That really gets the power of
• 3:01:43
  Cybermen. You see their drive?
• 3:01:45
  Yes. We get the quoted line, you will
• 3:01:46
  be like us, and we get the removal of their emotions, which
• 3:01:50
  leads neatly into the conclusion.
• 3:01:51
  So we're seeing everything that Cybermen should be.
• 3:01:54
  I also take exception to the fact that people say, oh,
• 3:01:57
  they're stompy Cybermen. That's not how they used to be.
• 3:02:00
  These are not the same Cybermen. These are a different breed of
• 3:02:04
  Cybermen. They are created in secret by
• 3:02:06
  John Lummick in his factory, I think.
• 3:02:09
  People are saying, though, Rod, that that's just a bit
• 3:02:10
  embarrassing, that they're stomping about the place.
• 3:02:13
  I don't find it embarrassing. I kind of think they come across
• 3:02:15
  like the I. Suggest you go to the shops
• 3:02:18
  tomorrow then and stomp all the way there and back and tell me
• 3:02:20
  whether you're going to be embarrassed by that or not.
• 3:02:23
  Yeah. Do I have to dress up as a
• 3:02:25
  Cyberman? Yes.
• 3:02:26
  OK, I'll do that. But actually I'll conversely
• 3:02:31
  throw that at you, Joe. The Cyberman Voice Changer
• 3:02:33
  became the best selling toy of 2000.
• 3:02:37
  And six so clearly hermitable Nicholas Briggs monster voice
• 3:02:42
  bring back the moon based. Voice.
• 3:02:47
  It shows that despite moaning minutes on this call to
• 3:02:50
  Cyberman, they were connecting with the wider audience.
• 3:02:56
  I you talked passionately a bit for about Doctor Who connecting
• 3:02:59
  with the kids and this clearly was the kids obviously loved it.
• 3:03:02
  It was the best selling toy, so clearly it was working.
• 3:03:06
  You've also, you've already referenced the scene with Sally
• 3:03:09
  when the Doctor reinvigorate her emotions.
• 3:03:14
  That thing is a really sad scene.
• 3:03:15
  And again, you get the impact of conversion as you do with the
• 3:03:18
  fact that Jackie gets converted. Our beloved Jackie Tyler okay,
• 3:03:22
  maybe not ours, the parallel world, but she's converted.
• 3:03:25
  It's show. I think it does lots to show the
• 3:03:28
  power and impact of the Cyberman, so I'm all for them.
• 3:03:32
  My second reason for keeping it in is they call them the Scooby
• 3:03:35
  Gang. I like the characters in this.
• 3:03:37
  You mentioned Mrs. Moore. I think she's a brilliant
• 3:03:39
  character. Moore.
• 3:03:41
  Moore. My name is Angela Price.
• 3:03:47
  So I think it's really good we get try to again compare that to
• 3:03:50
  Attack of the sidemen you actually care about, Mrs. Moore.
• 3:03:53
  It's not like Brian Glover and you don't.
• 3:03:55
  Care about that fella from Barker Grove, do you?
• 3:03:58
  Oh, I do care about that guy from.
• 3:04:00
  Why is he acting? It's so embarrassing.
• 3:04:03
  Cares about his acting job and whilst we're on the fact, what
• 3:04:08
  about the Ricky Mickey torture scene?
• 3:04:10
  You know, I'm not a big fan of Mickey, but when he's strapped
• 3:04:13
  half naked to a chair being by himself.
• 3:04:16
  I've told you he was kinky. Didn't.
• 3:04:18
  I have some serious kink going on.
• 3:04:22
  There, I agree. Ricky is sorry.
• 3:04:25
  Yeah, Ricky is absolutely two DI mean.
• 3:04:27
  He is incredibly 2D. He's like one of Chloe Webber's
• 3:04:31
  drawings. He's not good.
• 3:04:34
  Pete and Jackie, I like the fact that we get, we don't get
• 3:04:37
  pantomime parallel world versions of them, we just get
• 3:04:40
  slightly shifted versions of them.
• 3:04:42
  So Tom McRae had originally written them really broadly and
• 3:04:45
  completely different, and Russell toned it in and said no,
• 3:04:49
  they just need to be slightly different.
• 3:04:50
  Imagine been like Star Trek, evil, lesbian, the characters.
• 3:04:55
  Nice. That was kind.
• 3:04:57
  Of how they were written. Amazing, that sounds.
• 3:04:59
  Great. But I think a lot of the
• 3:05:02
  characters, we do have empathy and understanding for them.
• 3:05:05
  So I like the characters and I think this is a pretty good
• 3:05:07
  blockbuster. We've got, you know, the death
• 3:05:09
  of a TARDIS run a parallel world.
• 3:05:11
  We've got Zeppelins, we've got Batsey power station.
• 3:05:13
  We've got night shoots. We've got sewers full of
• 3:05:16
  Cybermen slowly twitching, coming to life.
• 3:05:18
  We've got the cyber controller climbing up a ladder to a
• 3:05:21
  Zeppelin with the flames going up.
• 3:05:23
  I think it's great. So yeah, I'm going to keep it
• 3:05:26
  in. I think it's a really fun 90
• 3:05:28
  minutes. It's not the same level as Army
• 3:05:30
  of Ghost Doomsday because it hasn't got the heart, but as a
• 3:05:33
  as a mid season 2 parter, I think this is a pretty decent
• 3:05:37
  effort and I'm keeping it. I've got three reasons to keep
• 3:05:43
  it and three reasons to not. This was my most on the fence
• 3:05:46
  story of the entire season so I'm pleased we're ending here
• 3:05:49
  and. You've got the deciding vote.
• 3:05:51
  I do. My 3 reasons I don't like this,
• 3:05:54
  this is that one episode I was telling you about where I think
• 3:05:57
  the music I do like the Cyberman squad, That's great.
• 3:06:03
  But all that syrupy music at the end, when Rose and Mickey are
• 3:06:06
  saying goodbye, Just marry, go put the pedal on for a second,
• 3:06:15
  will you? So I do think generally the
• 3:06:18
  music is too. It's trying to be a big
• 3:06:20
  bombastic thriller, but I know like, he's he's sabotaging the
• 3:06:25
  atmosphere rather than creating an atmosphere.
• 3:06:27
  It's a bit too much. I hate the whole the stupid
• 3:06:31
  climax on the blimp with that that Simon the Lumix Cyberman
• 3:06:36
  going up the ladder. Oh, it's a fucking campus thing
• 3:06:39
  with Caesars horns. And I'm on is so ridiculous.
• 3:06:42
  So I really hate the ending and I just hate all of what are the
• 3:06:46
  rebels called the Preachers. I hate all of them.
• 3:06:50
  I think the fellow Andrew Hayden Smith, get back to presenting.
• 3:06:55
  No, Clark, you should be ashamed of yourself, Sir.
• 3:06:58
  Like you can act. So I don't know what's going on.
• 3:07:00
  What is that mouth thing all about?
• 3:07:02
  I keep doing that. That's sort of weird.
• 3:07:04
  Like he's chewing on a sour toffee.
• 3:07:06
  It's really weird. And Mrs. Moore, I was cheering
• 3:07:12
  when she's like, what the heck? How's she doing hanging out with
• 3:07:14
  those fucking kids? It's all very strange.
• 3:07:18
  Anyway, so those are the things I don't like.
• 3:07:20
  But I love the fact that you said about Rose being awful at
• 3:07:26
  the beginning. Sigh.
• 3:07:27
  But I love the punishment. She gets her fucking hubris so
• 3:07:31
  she can walk into her parallel parents home and start talking
• 3:07:35
  personal with them. And when Jackie turns around to
• 3:07:37
  her and says who the hell do you think you are?
• 3:07:40
  It's such a slap in the face moment for her.
• 3:07:42
  I love that scene so much. I think Graham Harper directs
• 3:07:47
  the build up of the Sideman Review throughout the entire
• 3:07:51
  first episode. Brilliantly.
• 3:07:53
  He's doing the Douglas Canfield thing of showing bits and
• 3:07:56
  pieces, POV shots, and then the bit where they finally comes to
• 3:08:01
  stomping across the grass. And he does like a that's got
• 3:08:06
  like a fade in, doesn't he, Where it just gets clearer and
• 3:08:08
  clearer and clearer. It's and the build UPS of that
• 3:08:11
  no one can do it like Graham Harper, I don't think and he
• 3:08:14
  does that extremely. Well that's kind of undercut by
• 3:08:16
  having seen them in the pre credits teaser I.
• 3:08:21
  Think it's true. That is true.
• 3:08:23
  And I think that's a bit clunky as well, that if you're going to
• 3:08:26
  have that big reveal, save it. Don't.
• 3:08:29
  You didn't have the Zygons in the first scene, did you?
• 3:08:31
  No that. Was a good point.
• 3:08:35
  And I like Rodson. I loved all the mass
• 3:08:38
  conversions. In episode 2.
• 3:08:39
  It's the thing we don't lean into enough, and that is
• 3:08:42
  converting people on mass. And it's I said to Art, we're
• 3:08:44
  Roger, this is the first time they've won.
• 3:08:47
  They've actually won. They've taken over the earth.
• 3:08:49
  They're tearing people from their homes, marching them into
• 3:08:53
  Battersea Power Station. We've done it to ourselves
• 3:08:55
  because we put the technology in that allow them to take us,
• 3:08:58
  which is exactly what we would do.
• 3:09:00
  So it has got a sort of a scary element to it.
• 3:09:03
  And they're being walked in and they've scenes of the things
• 3:09:05
  coming down, the lasers and the source and all of.
• 3:09:08
  That in part one it's a bit cringe with in the jungle
• 3:09:10
  playing and. Oh, I love that.
• 3:09:12
  The lion sleeps tonight, isn't it?
• 3:09:14
  Oh no. No.
• 3:09:15
  Yeah, Because then he cuts. True.
• 3:09:17
  He cuts, You've got the music playing, and then he sort of
• 3:09:19
  does a pan across the pipes and then you just hear someone go.
• 3:09:22
  Oh, so I take that that he's trying to drown out the sound of
• 3:09:27
  the the people screaming and he wants that loud, complete
• 3:09:31
  contrast to to the. Horror.
• 3:09:33
  I just don't think it quite doesn't quite work.
• 3:09:36
  So maybe it's the choice of song that that does it.
• 3:09:40
  It doesn't. String.
• 3:09:40
  Me. He doesn't strike me as an in
• 3:09:42
  the jungle sort of man, no? Exactly what did you call him?
• 3:09:48
  Friend of Graham. Harper, He looks like him a bit
• 3:09:53
  as well, doesn't. He yeah, he does.
• 3:09:55
  That's why Graham casts him in everything.
• 3:09:59
  But Harper was a brilliant choice to bring back aside me
• 3:10:02
  and and he does like the the scenes down in the ice tunnels
• 3:10:07
  where they're all in the dark and we go busting.
• 3:10:09
  It's all lit by by flashlights and they start coming to life.
• 3:10:13
  That's really creepy. So I think he does the entrance
• 3:10:17
  when they smash through the windows and they're all shot
• 3:10:19
  from below. It's so dramatic.
• 3:10:22
  That cliffhanger's brilliant and I know they are stomping around,
• 3:10:25
  but it feels like there's thousands of the bloody things
• 3:10:28
  walking around that house. It's such a tough one because
• 3:10:33
  the things I don't like annoy me and the things I love.
• 3:10:37
  Oh great. And everyone's been so mean
• 3:10:40
  about it, so I'm putting it through.
• 3:10:41
  Yeah. Everyone in the comments was
• 3:10:43
  mean about it as well. It is really flawed.
• 3:10:47
  I can see why somebody would go either way, but I think it's
• 3:10:51
  exciting enough. I think it's Harper.
• 3:10:53
  Harper's the one that takes it through.
• 3:10:55
  So we are on to round two. We've lost three stories.
• 3:10:58
  Oh my goodness. 3 1/2 hours in and we're.
• 3:11:01
  On to round two. Don't worry, there's only.
• 3:11:03
  Round two goes in about two seconds.
• 3:11:06
  So we've lost fear. Her girl in the fireplace.
• 3:11:08
  Yay and new Earth. So we've got 7 stories left, so
• 3:11:14
  let's spin the randomizer. We have tooth.
• 3:11:17
  And a camp suspense music. OK.
• 3:11:20
  So we have Tooth and claw versus the Impossible Planet.
• 3:11:25
  Oh. Shine I want money back.
• 3:11:29
  Let's start with Mark. Oh, this is such a tough
• 3:11:34
  decision. Oh, they are two of the best.
• 3:11:40
  Oh, but I think I'm going to go with my favorite type of Doctor
• 3:11:48
  Who. And tooth and claw is my
• 3:11:49
  favorite in the series. So say Tooth and Claw.
• 3:11:53
  Sigh. The Impossible planet.
• 3:11:55
  My gut said that straight away as soon as that was announced.
• 3:11:58
  So that gets mine. The Impossible Planet is the
• 3:12:01
  closest the new series ever got to the classic series, so the
• 3:12:05
  Impossible Planet for me. I'm absolutely the impossible
• 3:12:10
  planet for me. Oh, it's such a great episode as
• 3:12:12
  well. It is 2 front claw.
• 3:12:14
  A bit of one. This would have been great.
• 3:12:16
  Yeah, so Tooth, Tooth and Claw has.
• 3:12:18
  I know we are very good at picking ones that aren't the
• 3:12:20
  norm, but Tooth and Claw has fallen, so we are now up.
• 3:12:24
  Idiot Slanton plays love and monsters.
• 3:12:28
  Well, I'll go first on that. Love and more.
• 3:12:30
  I like Idiot Slanton, but I love, love and Monsters Joe.
• 3:12:36
  Love and monsters. It's our it's our absolute
• 3:12:39
  classic. Sigh.
• 3:12:41
  Much as I really enjoy watching The Idiot Slanton, it's got to
• 3:12:44
  be love and monsters for me. Mark.
• 3:12:51
  I've been there for both, but actually some of your arguments
• 3:12:58
  about love and monsters I would take on board.
• 3:13:01
  So I would, I would say, love the monsters.
• 3:13:03
  So idiots Lance and Falls. You see, we do go round, go
• 3:13:06
  through round two very quick. We'll be in bed by 11.
• 3:13:09
  Don't worry, we'll. Be in bed by three minutes at
• 3:13:13
  this. Rate.
• 3:13:15
  So we all together. Well, maybe that's for the
• 3:13:21
  listener to make up their own mind.
• 3:13:22
  So we have Rise of the Cyberman against Always.
• 3:13:26
  Give me rise to the Cyberman again.
• 3:13:28
  Impossible Planet. I've got a feeling this one's
• 3:13:30
  going to be quite easy, Mark. Yeah, it is.
• 3:13:34
  I mean, impossible planet. It's got to be sight.
• 3:13:37
  Impossible planet. Impossible planet.
• 3:13:40
  An impossible planet for me too, I think I know.
• 3:13:42
  What's going to win this? You know, so rise to Simon
• 3:13:47
  falls. So we're down to five stories.
• 3:13:50
  There might still be a bit of contention.
• 3:13:54
  So we have got sorry, four stories.
• 3:13:57
  We've got Doomsday and Army of Ghosts Against School reunion.
• 3:14:05
  I. Will look at his face.
• 3:14:08
  OK, well, I'm well, it's school reunion because that's my
• 3:14:11
  favorite. Mark.
• 3:14:15
  Well. Look, I might have to say
• 3:14:18
  doomsday on this one. Just stick to my stick to my
• 3:14:23
  guns on that. Oh man.
• 3:14:26
  It's the two most emotional stories with the most
• 3:14:29
  emotionally gutting endings. Oh.
• 3:14:32
  Hope or loss. Hope or loss.
• 3:14:34
  Hope or loss. Hope.
• 3:14:35
  School reunion. I don't know on this one.
• 3:14:44
  It's a real tough ears map. I love both of them.
• 3:14:48
  I am going to go school reunion. So school reunion is going
• 3:14:53
  through an army of ghosts. For.
• 3:14:56
  So we are left with just School Reunion, Impossible Planet and
• 3:15:00
  Love and Monsters so. It doesn't.
• 3:15:03
  Would be my top three of this of the series, so.
• 3:15:06
  Oh, so now we've drawn school reunion against Love and
• 3:15:09
  monsters, and I'm going to go Love and Monsters Joe.
• 3:15:17
  School reunion. Mark Stuffy for you.
• 3:15:25
  Oh. I mean, you didn't care for
• 3:15:27
  either of them so well. Not about.
• 3:15:30
  Oh, this is really. I love all your indecision.
• 3:15:36
  It's giving you me lots of time to play my lovely music.
• 3:15:39
  Thank you. Well, I think I'm going to have
• 3:15:43
  to go on. What would I choose to go back
• 3:15:46
  and watch again? That doesn't help.
• 3:15:57
  Knife Rubbish. School reunion Sonic School
• 3:16:04
  reunion for me? Love and monsters falls oh.
• 3:16:10
  I'll tell you what it did well, though.
• 3:16:12
  I was hoping it would be a favorite.
• 3:16:14
  I was hoping I was going to win. So we've got School Reunion and
• 3:16:18
  Impossible Planet as I'll find. Sorry, I'm so sorry I.
• 3:16:23
  Knew it was. I had a feeling it was going to
• 3:16:25
  come down to these two so. So we'll make you pick.
• 3:16:29
  First oh, oh, rods. OK, I'm going to go with my
• 3:16:38
  heart and I'm going with my Sarah Jane and Canine and his
• 3:16:43
  school reunion. Mark.
• 3:16:48
  I'm gonna have to go with what I think has the better overall
• 3:16:55
  story and how, Oh well, I was going to say the one that has
• 3:16:58
  the most sort of more depth and layers, but they do both have
• 3:17:03
  that, but also the one that has more adventure and scares and
• 3:17:15
  I'm going to have to go with The Impossible Planet.
• 3:17:20
  Show 1 each. Yeah, well, my brain is telling
• 3:17:22
  me to go with The Impossible Planet because it is just so
• 3:17:28
  flawlessly done. But my heart is telling me to go
• 3:17:31
  with school reunion because I love Elizabeth Slayton more than
• 3:17:36
  practically anything. Not everything, but practically
• 3:17:40
  anything. I'm going to go with school
• 3:17:42
  reunion. Well, I think by that say, I
• 3:17:48
  absolutely adore the Impossible Planet, but it's Elizabeth
• 3:17:52
  Slayton and she was my guiding light throughout my youth, so
• 3:18:00
  it's got to be. Sarah James, you've.
• 3:18:05
  Got one right at last. Oh, sorry Lord, you didn't lie
• 3:18:12
  on that. 1. Picture though School Reunion
• 3:18:16
  wins the Hamster. Vote for the best series
• 3:18:21
  two-story, a well deserved winner.
• 3:18:23
  We do buck the trend. We're we're not in line with the
• 3:18:25
  DWM polls at all, are we? No.
• 3:18:28
  Why? What?
• 3:18:28
  What? What?
• 3:18:29
  What came higher scale in the fireplace?
• 3:18:31
  I think girl in five. Army goes from doomsday,
• 3:18:33
  probably, yes. I think I've.
• 3:18:35
  I think the school reunion though is a winner.
• 3:18:37
  That is not an obvious choice. But people would go Oh yeah, I
• 3:18:40
  can see why. Yeah.
• 3:18:41
  Yes, yeah. Except Mark, yeah.
• 3:18:45
  I don't think he's a big fan, so all that reminds is for us to
• 3:18:49
  thank our guests for reaching that rather random conclusion.
• 3:18:55
  Is that something else? Absolutely.
• 3:18:57
  Not. Is there anything you would like
• 3:19:00
  to promote or plug? Let's start with Mark.
• 3:19:04
  Oh well, you can find my podcast to watch who at To Watch Who and
• 3:19:11
  yeah. Check it out.
• 3:19:15
  Mark, she does the marketing. For me, God, that was the most
• 3:19:20
  enthusiastic promotion. Of the podcast.
• 3:19:23
  Can I do it for him? It's a wonderful podcast
• 3:19:26
  featuring a non Doctor Who fan, Sarah and Mark.
• 3:19:29
  I thought I was established Doctor Who fan when it comes to
• 3:19:33
  the new series. Yes.
• 3:19:36
  Yeah, check it out. It's amazing.
• 3:19:38
  And psy. Well, you can check out my
• 3:19:41
  podcast at the Library of Impossible Things where I talk
• 3:19:44
  to Doctor Who fans about their personal stories and their
• 3:19:48
  relationship with Doctor Who. And it's going very well and
• 3:19:52
  people seem to be very much enjoying it.
• 3:19:53
  And hopefully the other two of you who haven't been on yet will
• 3:19:57
  be joining me at some point in the future.
• 3:19:59
  It's. A lovely hybrid between Doctor
• 3:20:02
  Who and therapy. Yes.
• 3:20:05
  Appearing on the therapy a lot of the time.
• 3:20:09
  So that's all for us to remind. So we need to tell you that in
• 3:20:12
  two weeks time we are entering the black and white era for the
• 3:20:15
  first time and strictly we are going for series season six with
• 3:20:20
  Patrick Troughton, which will be very interesting, some long
• 3:20:24
  stories for us to watch. Who's?
• 3:20:25
  On that one. We've got Gary Russell.
• 3:20:28
  Oh, my word. And we've got Daniel Romsley.
• 3:20:32
  Oh, first time, first time. So yeah, interesting
• 3:20:35
  combination. So we'll be tackling Zoe, Jamie
• 3:20:39
  and the 2nd Doctor. So all that remains for us to
• 3:20:42
  say tonight is thank you for listening and.
• 3:20:48
  Listening, I was going to say darl since.
• 3:20:53
  Good night everyone. Good night.
• 3:21:11
  The.