Latest / Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond / Graham Nash, Part 1

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Graham Nash, Part 1 · Broken Record with Rick Rubin, Malcolm Gladwell, Bruce Headlam and Justin Richmond

0:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. I want to let you know that Rick has
0:21
Speaker 1: a new podcast called Tetragrammaton. After about four to five
0:25
Speaker 1: years of recording Broken Record, Rick decided he wanted to
0:28
Speaker 1: talk to him more than just musicians, So on his
0:30
Speaker 1: new podcast, he'll be talking to actors, directors, wrestlers, business people,
0:37
Speaker 1: anyone that Rick finds interesting. So make sure to subscribe
0:40
Speaker 1: to Tetragrammaton wherever you listen to podcasts. At any one
0:45
Speaker 1: years old. Graham Nash describes his life as a magic
0:48
Speaker 1: story from beginning to end, and he's not wrong. Graham's
0:53
Speaker 1: career began in sixty two as a singer songwriter in
0:56
Speaker 1: the British pop band The Hollies. After string of hits
0:59
Speaker 1: in the UK, Graham moved to LA to start a
1:01
Speaker 1: band with former Birds vocalist David Crosby and Steven Stills,
1:05
Speaker 1: whose band Buffalo Springfield had just broken up. From the start, Crosby,
1:10
Speaker 1: Stills and Nash were dubbed a folk rock supergroup and
1:14
Speaker 1: went on to become one of the era's most revered
1:16
Speaker 1: bands thanks to their gorgeous three part harmony and exquisite songwriting.
1:21
Speaker 1: Following the death of David Crosby in January, Rick Rubin
1:24
Speaker 1: sat down with Graham Nash to talk about Graham's deep
1:27
Speaker 1: love and admiration for kros On today's episode, we'll hear
1:31
Speaker 1: the first part of Rick's conversation with Graham, who reminisces
1:34
Speaker 1: about the day he met Crosby, who immediately rolled Graham
1:38
Speaker 1: the most perfect joint he'd ever seen. Graham also explains
1:42
Speaker 1: how it was actually cass Elliott from The Mamas and
1:44
Speaker 1: Papas who was responsible for bringing CSN together, and he
1:49
Speaker 1: recalls classic stories about Neil Young's unpredictable early days with
1:53
Speaker 1: the group. This is broken record liner notes for the
1:59
Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's part one of Rick
2:03
Speaker 1: Rubin's conversation with Graham Nash. What's happening mane, Good morning.
2:09
Speaker 1: How are you feeling, man? Well, it's been a it's
2:12
Speaker 1: been an intense year so far, you know, yeah, losing
2:16
Speaker 1: friends and the combination of being incredibly sad because of
2:21
Speaker 1: the loss of friends and incredibly excited that I have
2:24
Speaker 1: a new record coming out. It's like I'm in between
2:27
Speaker 1: this thing. It's it's been very strange this year, completely understood.
2:32
Speaker 1: Can we listen to something together before we start talking?
2:35
Speaker 1: Cheer up for that? Why not? Okay, let's listen to
2:38
Speaker 1: something way. Oh, let's see. Oh what do I do?
3:22
Speaker 1: M m h m m m. Where will I be
5:36
Speaker 1: when I go back? Who will I see when I'm
5:50
Speaker 1: all alone? You tell me what am I going to do?
6:03
Speaker 1: What comes up for you when we listen to this.
6:08
Speaker 1: I'm very sadly David's passing. I was just thinking about
6:13
Speaker 1: how wonderful his voices. You know, he had an incredible voice,
6:17
Speaker 1: and this was a very tender moment for both of us.
6:23
Speaker 1: I have to smile at the simplicity and the beautifulness
6:28
Speaker 1: of him singing alone like that, and then me coming
6:31
Speaker 1: in on the harmony. I'm going to miss David a
6:36
Speaker 1: great deal in my life. That's a beautiful piece of music.
6:40
Speaker 1: It's astounding. It feels like it's coming from another planet.
6:44
Speaker 1: It moves me so much, and when I hear it,
6:48
Speaker 1: it takes me to another place. I'm so thankful for
6:53
Speaker 1: you both from making something so beautiful for us to have.
6:57
Speaker 1: Tell me about the recording of that. How does that
7:00
Speaker 1: recording exist in the world? What brought up that? David
7:04
Speaker 1: has this twelve string that he built from two different guitars,
7:10
Speaker 1: A Guild guitar and a Martin guitar, and it sounded beautiful,
7:15
Speaker 1: and David was very sad at that moment, and basically
7:22
Speaker 1: he sat down and played it. And that's one of
7:26
Speaker 1: the beauties of it. It's a perfectly instant capture of
7:30
Speaker 1: a great piece of music. And it was done. If
7:33
Speaker 1: it's two minutes and fifty two seconds, he did it
7:37
Speaker 1: in one take, and then we added the unearthly sounds
7:42
Speaker 1: that adds to putting it into the space that it is.
7:47
Speaker 1: And what it was was David had turned me on
7:50
Speaker 1: to this glass harmonica that someone had built and it
7:55
Speaker 1: was wine glasses on their side, and what we did
8:01
Speaker 1: was we replicated that on an eight track machine and
8:05
Speaker 1: we stood and we tuned the glass and we did
8:09
Speaker 1: the finger around it to produce the sound, and we
8:13
Speaker 1: recorded that to one track and then took some water
8:16
Speaker 1: out of the glass so it goes up in key
8:20
Speaker 1: and we put that to the So when we had
8:22
Speaker 1: we had eight tracks of this beautiful glass harmonica sound
8:27
Speaker 1: that we would bring in and out to project that
8:31
Speaker 1: piece of music into the future. So beautiful. And then
8:35
Speaker 1: the harmonies in general, when you're coming up with harmonies
8:40
Speaker 1: for you is it a mathematical equation or is it
8:44
Speaker 1: an instinctive finding the note? I have to, in a
8:50
Speaker 1: strange way, be David, watching his body language, watching his breathing,
8:58
Speaker 1: watching him. I have to be a part of David
9:01
Speaker 1: momentarily so I can lock in perfectly with what he's doing.
9:07
Speaker 1: And because he had such a one for melody, it
9:10
Speaker 1: was very easy to find interesting harmonies to go along
9:13
Speaker 1: with that melody, and those harmonies once again put it
9:18
Speaker 1: into that beautiful sound that you were discussing earlier. I
9:23
Speaker 1: never thought about this before, but hearing what you're saying,
9:26
Speaker 1: is the fact that the two voices are singing in
9:29
Speaker 1: perfect unison essential to making the harmony do what the
9:34
Speaker 1: harmony does. Yes, I believe you're right, and we were
9:39
Speaker 1: pretty good at duplicating. If I listened to one of
9:42
Speaker 1: David's league vocal tracks, I soak it into my soul
9:47
Speaker 1: and I just sing what I think is appropriate, and
9:50
Speaker 1: in most cases it works out pretty good because of
9:53
Speaker 1: it the direct melody that he's singing. He trusts me
9:59
Speaker 1: to do the right thing, and I loved that part
10:05
Speaker 1: of our relationship, the trust that we had with each other.
10:09
Speaker 1: And I assume the trust was mainly as it related
10:12
Speaker 1: to singing that. Would you say that or no? No,
10:15
Speaker 1: I would say the trust came from being deep friends. Beautiful.
10:19
Speaker 1: That's a beautiful thing. I wouldn't have guessed you say that.
10:22
Speaker 1: I love hearing that. Yeah, it's because we were so
10:24
Speaker 1: close together. I mean, we could really harmonize, you know.
10:29
Speaker 1: And yes, we had a wonderful time. It was great
10:34
Speaker 1: making that particular piece of music because I wanted to
10:38
Speaker 1: stay out of David's way because he was talking to
10:42
Speaker 1: you heart directly, and I only came in when I
10:46
Speaker 1: felt it needed to take another breath. And it gives
10:50
Speaker 1: the song beautiful dynamics. You're not aware of the length
10:53
Speaker 1: of the song because of the changes in dynamics that
10:56
Speaker 1: happened because the harmony is not there all the time, right,
10:59
Speaker 1: So there's a period of time where there's no harmony.
11:01
Speaker 1: Then there's a period where there's your harmony. But then
11:04
Speaker 1: there's the beg ending with many voices. I imagine all
11:07
Speaker 1: you and David, Yes, all me, David, amazing, so beautiful. Yes,
11:12
Speaker 1: tell me about meeting David. I once was in the
11:16
Speaker 1: village in New York here and I saw the birds
11:20
Speaker 1: walking into a record store and I knew who they were.
11:25
Speaker 1: They had no idea that I was there, and I
11:27
Speaker 1: never approached them at all. But we had a mutual friend,
11:32
Speaker 1: Cass Elliott, from the Mamas and the Papers. I sincerely
11:36
Speaker 1: believe that Cass knew what CSN would sound like if
11:41
Speaker 1: CSN ever got together. She was friends with David and Stephen, obviously,
11:46
Speaker 1: and she knew that they David had been thrown out
11:48
Speaker 1: of the Birds and Stephen of Buffalo Springfield had broken up,
11:52
Speaker 1: and Cass instinctively felt that if they had a third
11:57
Speaker 1: harmony it would be great. So one day I'm in
12:01
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. Cass caused me and says, you know, what
12:05
Speaker 1: are you doing at noon? I said, actually, we have
12:08
Speaker 1: a day off. I'm doing anything. She said, good, I'll
12:10
Speaker 1: come and pick you up. I want to introduce you
12:13
Speaker 1: to a friend of mine. She picks me up at
12:15
Speaker 1: the Neckobaco Hotel in Los Angeles and was there in
12:20
Speaker 1: her Porsche convertible porsh. So we got in and of course,
12:24
Speaker 1: you know, Laurel Canyon is ten minutes from Hollywood. And
12:28
Speaker 1: she picked me up and took me to this strange
12:31
Speaker 1: little house and there was another convertible push right in
12:35
Speaker 1: the garage there. Anyway, we go upstairs and there's this
12:40
Speaker 1: nice living room, very little furniture, a couch and a
12:44
Speaker 1: couple of speakers and a stack of music stuff. And
12:48
Speaker 1: then there's this guy lying on the couch in a
12:51
Speaker 1: white and blue striped T shirt and his jeans, no shoes,
12:56
Speaker 1: and on his chest was a shoe box lid full
13:01
Speaker 1: of grass, and he was looking at me while Cass
13:07
Speaker 1: introduced me as her end and he never lost eye
13:12
Speaker 1: contact with me whilst shaking the lid of this shoe
13:16
Speaker 1: box and separating the seed from the stems from the
13:19
Speaker 1: actual grass. And I thought that was amazing. And then
13:22
Speaker 1: he proceeded to roll one of the most perfect joints
13:25
Speaker 1: I'd ever seen in my life. And Cass introduced me
13:29
Speaker 1: and he knew that I was the high voice in
13:32
Speaker 1: the Hollies, and we got on beautifully. And that was
13:37
Speaker 1: the first day I ever met David. And was this
13:40
Speaker 1: your first trip to California? No, we had been to
13:43
Speaker 1: California earlier. Cass thought that Lou Adler, their producer, might
13:49
Speaker 1: want to produce the Hollies, and she paid for the
13:52
Speaker 1: Hollies to fly from New York to Los Angeles to
13:55
Speaker 1: meet with lou So. No, it wasn't the first time
13:58
Speaker 1: I'd been in Los Angeles, And how did you meet Cass?
14:03
Speaker 1: The Hollies were being given an introductory getting together to
14:09
Speaker 1: release an album, and it's one of those things where
14:13
Speaker 1: you know, you have a glass of wine and you're
14:15
Speaker 1: waiting for, you know, somebody, and this little fifteen year
14:19
Speaker 1: old kid came up to me and he knew everything
14:22
Speaker 1: about the Hollies. Knew every B side, he knew every
14:25
Speaker 1: A side, he knew everything that we've done. In a
14:27
Speaker 1: foreign man. He was a big Hollies fan. It was
14:31
Speaker 1: Rodney Bingenheimer, who later became a very famous DJ in
14:36
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. And so Rodney looked at me and he said, so,
14:40
Speaker 1: what are you doing after this getting together? I said,
14:44
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm English, So I said, I'm not sure.
14:47
Speaker 1: What do you think you're doing? He said, well, I
14:50
Speaker 1: have these friends and they're recording down the street, and
14:53
Speaker 1: I thought you might want to go to a session.
14:55
Speaker 1: And I said it sounds interesting. Who are your friends
14:59
Speaker 1: and he said they called the Mamas and the Paupers.
15:02
Speaker 1: Now I'd seen their first album cover and I saw
15:05
Speaker 1: Michelle on the front and it was very attracted to
15:08
Speaker 1: this blonde, you know, hippie southern California girl. And when
15:15
Speaker 1: I went into the session, John and Danny and Michelle
15:20
Speaker 1: were putting an overdope in the studio, so I couldn't
15:22
Speaker 1: go in there, but outside the studio was cast. So
15:25
Speaker 1: I started talking to Cass. And one of the things
15:28
Speaker 1: she asked me, she said, what do you think John
15:31
Speaker 1: Lennon would think about the Mamas and Papas? And I said, well,
15:34
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know John that well, but I
15:37
Speaker 1: know that he would probably keep you at arm's length,
15:40
Speaker 1: you know, until he figured out that he was comfortable
15:43
Speaker 1: with you when Danny would open up. And I said, so,
15:47
Speaker 1: he probably would put your music down at first before
15:50
Speaker 1: he accepted it. And I look at Cass and she's crying.
15:54
Speaker 1: What I didn't know is that Cass had a crush
15:57
Speaker 1: on John Lennon, and that's how I met Cass. Wow,
16:02
Speaker 1: interesting story. Had you heard The Mamas and the Papa's
16:06
Speaker 1: music at that time or not yet? I had heard
16:08
Speaker 1: the music because I had that first, that first album,
16:12
Speaker 1: so I did know that they were a pretty damn
16:14
Speaker 1: fine band. And it was only you know when I
16:20
Speaker 1: told you that I think that Cass intuitively knew what
16:25
Speaker 1: Stephen and David's sound would do with an added harmony.
16:29
Speaker 1: I think she knew right from the very beginning before
16:31
Speaker 1: any of us, what that would sound like. You know,
16:36
Speaker 1: she's in my prayers every single night. She's the last
16:39
Speaker 1: face I see when I go through my prayers, and
16:44
Speaker 1: she will always be there. And it's one of the
16:46
Speaker 1: reasons why on every album that we have made since
16:48
Speaker 1: she passed away, we have dedicated the album to Cass because,
16:53
Speaker 1: in a strange way, she started it all beautiful and
16:57
Speaker 1: it makes sense that she would understand the three voices
17:01
Speaker 1: because of her role in the Mamas and the Papas.
17:04
Speaker 1: She understood three part harmony. Yes, it makes sense. It
17:08
Speaker 1: makes sense. And she fought to get into that band
17:11
Speaker 1: because they didn't want her in that band, but she knew,
17:14
Speaker 1: she knew that her voice would do something special with theirs.
17:17
Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. But she she physically, she didn't
17:20
Speaker 1: look like, you know, she should be in that band.
17:23
Speaker 1: You know, she was. She was heavy. She was a
17:26
Speaker 1: large lady, and she knew it. But boy, could cast
17:29
Speaker 1: Elliott sing. Did you ever get to sing with her?
17:32
Speaker 1: She is the only voice on the first Crosby stills
17:36
Speaker 1: in Nash record that is not me and David and Stephen.
17:39
Speaker 1: I didn't know that. That's amazing. What does she sing?
17:42
Speaker 1: Do you remember? Yeah, she sang a high harmony on
17:45
Speaker 1: pre road downs. Wow. So cool. We'll be back after
17:52
Speaker 1: a quick break with more from Rick Rubin and Graham Nash.
17:59
Speaker 1: We're back with Rick Rubin's conversation with Graham Nash. How
18:04
Speaker 1: was the David who passed different than the David laying
18:12
Speaker 1: on the couch at Casses. David was a very interesting
18:17
Speaker 1: couple of people. On one side, he could be most generous, funny,
18:23
Speaker 1: brilliant at telling stories, obvious, really brilliant at singing and
18:27
Speaker 1: playing the guitar, totally unique. The other side of David
18:32
Speaker 1: was if there was something that he didn't like, he
18:35
Speaker 1: had no problem in telling you. And he could become
18:39
Speaker 1: nasty and he could become vicious. And those were the
18:42
Speaker 1: two sides of David. And I always wanted the first side.
18:46
Speaker 1: You know, I want to feel easy. I want to
18:50
Speaker 1: I want to feel like I want to you know,
18:52
Speaker 1: I want to feel part of whatever. But the other
18:55
Speaker 1: side of David was pretty scary. Knowing that scary side
19:02
Speaker 1: of him did it help you to feel like that's
19:06
Speaker 1: just David or did he always personal? If he would
19:10
Speaker 1: say something not nice, it would feel personal. And I
19:14
Speaker 1: always knew that that part of David was there. I
19:17
Speaker 1: tried to stare our relationship away from the nasty side
19:21
Speaker 1: of David and we managed to do that probably ninety
19:24
Speaker 1: five percent of the time that we moved together. Tell
19:28
Speaker 1: me about leaving England. How popular were the Hollies. I
19:32
Speaker 1: think of them as very popular. I don't really know.
19:34
Speaker 1: I wasn't there. How popular were the Hollies? How about
19:38
Speaker 1: fifteen top ten records in seven years? Wow? So popular
19:43
Speaker 1: popular band? Yes? Tell me about the world that the
19:47
Speaker 1: Hollies appeared in. What was the world that allowed the
19:51
Speaker 1: Hollies to come together? The Hollies were five kids from
19:55
Speaker 1: the north of England who made it down to London
19:58
Speaker 1: and managed to be recorded, and as I said, we
20:03
Speaker 1: had many, many top ten records. It was easy and strange,
20:07
Speaker 1: but it was very easy for me to leave that
20:10
Speaker 1: band because it happened at a time when we had
20:14
Speaker 1: recorded a song called King Midas in Reverse, which is
20:17
Speaker 1: a song that I wrote. And normally a Holly's release
20:23
Speaker 1: would go into the top ten within the first couple
20:25
Speaker 1: of weeks, this didn't This only made it to the
20:29
Speaker 1: low thirties, and so the Hollies stopped trusting my musical path.
20:37
Speaker 1: So it happened. At that time, I was feeling a
20:40
Speaker 1: little removed from them, and then David came into my life.
20:47
Speaker 1: And at one point I had gone from London to
20:50
Speaker 1: Los Angeles to spend a few days with Johnny Mitchell.
20:54
Speaker 1: And when I got to the house, there were other
20:57
Speaker 1: voices there, which I wasn't too happy with, but it
21:00
Speaker 1: was David and Stephen and they were having dinner with Johnny,
21:04
Speaker 1: and at one point after dinner, I'm smoking a big one.
21:07
Speaker 1: David said to Steve and play play Willie that song
21:10
Speaker 1: that we were doing, and they were doing a two
21:12
Speaker 1: part harmony on a song of Steven's called you Don't
21:15
Speaker 1: Have to Cry. They got to the end of it,
21:18
Speaker 1: and I was overwhelming how beautiful the song was and
21:22
Speaker 1: how simple it was, and how beautiful it was, and
21:26
Speaker 1: I asked them to sing it again, and they sang
21:28
Speaker 1: it again. In the meantime, I'm learning. I asked them
21:34
Speaker 1: to sing it just one more time, and when they did,
21:38
Speaker 1: I put my harmony on and my world changed. Completely amazing.
21:43
Speaker 1: Once I heard that sound, which happened within the first
21:47
Speaker 1: forty five seconds of as Ever singing together, that sound
21:51
Speaker 1: was created. That was how magical it seemed to me.
21:56
Speaker 1: And once I had heard that, there was no doubt
22:00
Speaker 1: as a musician what I had to do. I had
22:03
Speaker 1: to undo my life and reform my life. And that's
22:07
Speaker 1: what I did. I left the Hollies, I left my equipment.
22:11
Speaker 1: I came to America with a suitcase and my guitar
22:15
Speaker 1: and a strange mirror that I have that I still
22:18
Speaker 1: have to this day. And it was overwhelmingly easy to
22:23
Speaker 1: leave the Hollies, and a lot of people thought I
22:26
Speaker 1: was crazy because it was a very popular band, and
22:29
Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, they're still going to this day.
22:33
Speaker 1: And I think this week, Beautiful is the sixtieth anniversary
22:37
Speaker 1: of the release of our first record, Amazing, tell me
22:42
Speaker 1: about it? So cool? Has there ever been a live
22:47
Speaker 1: Hollies reunion? Have you ever sung together since leaving or never? Yes.
22:52
Speaker 1: I got a call one day from Tony Hicks that
22:55
Speaker 1: there was a very famous English television show called Top
22:59
Speaker 1: of the Pops and we had done the very first one.
23:03
Speaker 1: And this was twenty five years later. And they wanted
23:06
Speaker 1: the Hollies to do the show again, and obviously I
23:11
Speaker 1: wasn't there. I was in America, and so I went
23:15
Speaker 1: over there and we did sing and we did a
23:19
Speaker 1: short tour after that. I think it was in like
23:22
Speaker 1: eighty three or something, and there's a radio show wanted
23:27
Speaker 1: to record the entire show on two tracks, and they
23:31
Speaker 1: did and it was beautiful. So I did sing with
23:35
Speaker 1: the Hollies after I left, and I was proud to
23:38
Speaker 1: do it, and that same magic was there. It's beautiful,
23:43
Speaker 1: and it's beautiful that there's a recording that exists that
23:45
Speaker 1: people can experience it beautiful. Was your relationship with Janie
23:50
Speaker 1: at all in the consideration of your deciding to leave
23:55
Speaker 1: England or was it purely the band? Well, you know,
24:01
Speaker 1: in the big picture, it was purely the band. But
24:03
Speaker 1: in the small picture, you know, the addition of Joni
24:07
Speaker 1: Mitchell to the to the equation was fantastic. Yeah, because
24:11
Speaker 1: I imagine if you're at the age that you're at,
24:15
Speaker 1: you're starting a relationship with someone that you feel strongly about.
24:19
Speaker 1: I could see that having a strong gravitational forces. Absolutely,
24:24
Speaker 1: we have known each other a long time. Rickon, you
24:27
Speaker 1: know that I've always said that my life has been
24:30
Speaker 1: a magic story from beginning to end, and quite frankly,
24:34
Speaker 1: with the release of my new record, it's still going on,
24:37
Speaker 1: you know, sixty years later. Incredible and speaking to that magic.
24:43
Speaker 1: My first memory of I don't even know if we met,
24:48
Speaker 1: but of seeing you was I was on the beach
24:51
Speaker 1: in Kauai. I don't know, thirty years ago, maybe one
24:54
Speaker 1: of the first times I was in Kauhai. Might have
24:56
Speaker 1: been the first time I was in Kawai and I
24:58
Speaker 1: was on Hanale Beach and I was laying on the
25:01
Speaker 1: beach and it was Christmas, and I know Santa Claus
25:07
Speaker 1: in full garb coming down the beach giving everyone on
25:10
Speaker 1: the beach candy canes, and that was you. Yeah, that's right.
25:15
Speaker 1: I'd lived on the island for a great many years
25:19
Speaker 1: and it was an annual trip that me and my
25:23
Speaker 1: family did. We would go and dress up and put
25:26
Speaker 1: funny hats on and all that kind of stuff and
25:29
Speaker 1: hand out candy canes to everybody that wanted one. So
25:32
Speaker 1: that that was the first time you saw me. Yeah, funny, Yeah,
25:35
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't meet you at that time, but
25:37
Speaker 1: someone's like, oh, that's Graham Nash. Yeah, coming to California
25:43
Speaker 1: from the experience you had in England, What was the
25:46
Speaker 1: world of California like in those days? How was it
25:49
Speaker 1: different than even the music scene that you came from
25:52
Speaker 1: in England? How did it feel different? It felt different
25:58
Speaker 1: from the point of view of freedom. When we were
26:01
Speaker 1: in England, if you didn't know John and Paul and
26:04
Speaker 1: George and Ringo, you and nobody. You couldn't touch the ball.
26:09
Speaker 1: You couldn't add the base if you wanted to. You
26:13
Speaker 1: had to talk to your producer, who talked to the engineer,
26:16
Speaker 1: who would then, you know, in his white smart turned
26:19
Speaker 1: the bass up, you know, making records then? What was
26:24
Speaker 1: was wonderful? I mean there we were making actual records. Fantastic.
26:29
Speaker 1: It was a different world in the freedom. When I
26:32
Speaker 1: came here, people wanted to know my opinion. People said,
26:35
Speaker 1: you know, what do you think of this? How do
26:36
Speaker 1: you think we should do this? What would you do here?
26:40
Speaker 1: And it was it was freedom. I mean Laurel Canyon
26:43
Speaker 1: in those days was was unbelievable. It was sunshine. It
26:47
Speaker 1: was full of music, It was full of pretty ladies.
26:51
Speaker 1: It was in a way, a small rock and roll paradise,
26:56
Speaker 1: and it was very, very different from the way that
26:59
Speaker 1: we had been recording in England. When I said that
27:03
Speaker 1: we had to talk to our producer and then he
27:06
Speaker 1: would talk to the engineer to turn the base up.
27:09
Speaker 1: Once she started to sell a lot of records, you
27:12
Speaker 1: could do what you want, and we did. And it
27:15
Speaker 1: was a thing that even David and I recognized and
27:19
Speaker 1: we admitted to each other that we can't be a
27:23
Speaker 1: product of this music industry that gets forgotten. We have
27:26
Speaker 1: to maintain our hold on the tools of our trade,
27:31
Speaker 1: meaning we need to be in a place where we
27:34
Speaker 1: can call up a studio book, the time book, the
27:37
Speaker 1: tape book, the musicians and do it. And it was
27:40
Speaker 1: very different from the way that I was recording in England.
27:44
Speaker 1: So in England you felt like you were at the
27:46
Speaker 1: mercy of the powers that be about when you could
27:49
Speaker 1: record and all parts of it, whereas in America you
27:52
Speaker 1: had it more of a sense of freedom. Absolutely. I
27:54
Speaker 1: mean in even an abbey road where it was we
27:57
Speaker 1: were recording, we had to stop recording at ten thirty
28:01
Speaker 1: because that's what Ron Richards, our producers said, And it
28:05
Speaker 1: wasn't until years later we realized that ten thirty was
28:09
Speaker 1: time when the pubs were shutting and they wanted to
28:12
Speaker 1: drink after the day, so they would shut everything down
28:16
Speaker 1: at ten thirty. Now, then, obviously when we started to
28:20
Speaker 1: sell millions of records and it all changed, then we
28:23
Speaker 1: went past ten thirty, that's for sure. Technically, you've you've
28:27
Speaker 1: seen a lot of changes technically in the recording business
28:30
Speaker 1: from when you started till now. Describe some of what
28:33
Speaker 1: you think have been some of the biggest changes along
28:36
Speaker 1: the way from the earliest days of the Hollies to
28:39
Speaker 1: now in terms of what you can create and how
28:43
Speaker 1: you can create it. The first time we were recording
28:46
Speaker 1: it was on two track and that was it. And
28:49
Speaker 1: now you have a thousand tracks on your iPhone. Yeah,
28:53
Speaker 1: it's very, very different. But you know something, as you
28:56
Speaker 1: well know, no amount of technology you can make a
28:59
Speaker 1: bad song into a good song. Yes, you have to
29:02
Speaker 1: start with a good song, and that's what we do.
29:06
Speaker 1: We tried to start with the good song that each
29:09
Speaker 1: one of us loves. We had this kind of rule
29:12
Speaker 1: that that we only recorded songs that each one of
29:15
Speaker 1: us really loved. Within Crosby Stills in Nash did relationships
29:20
Speaker 1: change over time? Were their bonds created between members that
29:27
Speaker 1: shifted at different times because you've known each other for
29:30
Speaker 1: a long period of time. Yes, mainly it was David
29:35
Speaker 1: and I that. I mean, for instance, it choosing the
29:38
Speaker 1: name of the band. Stephen wanted it to be Stills, Crosby,
29:44
Speaker 1: Nash with a hyphen. I said, try and say that,
29:48
Speaker 1: and he tried to say it, and I said, see,
29:50
Speaker 1: you can't say it smoothly, I says. The only combination
29:54
Speaker 1: of these three voices that makes sense sonically was Crosby,
30:00
Speaker 1: Stills and Nash. That's the way it came out the easiest,
30:04
Speaker 1: and that's the way that we did it. And unfortunately
30:08
Speaker 1: on that first album and we're sitting in the wrong order,
30:10
Speaker 1: and people for a few months after that thought I'd
30:13
Speaker 1: written Guinevere. It's also has a musical Crosby stials in
30:19
Speaker 1: Nash has a musical phrasing to it. Just that the
30:21
Speaker 1: name has a musical phrase. Absolutely, and that's why we
30:24
Speaker 1: chose the better lyric of the different choices. So the
30:28
Speaker 1: power was mainly me and David. We formed the bond
30:33
Speaker 1: that you were talking about a little earlier. Yeah, and
30:38
Speaker 1: sometimes it would shift, but not often. Mostly mostly David
30:42
Speaker 1: and I knew what was best for us. You know,
30:47
Speaker 1: Stephen in this particular name incident, his ego was in
30:53
Speaker 1: the way, and it was David and I that convinced
30:56
Speaker 1: him that it should be Crosby Stials in Nash and
31:00
Speaker 1: he went along with it, which is a testament to ultimately,
31:04
Speaker 1: even when there's a difference of opinion, if you get
31:07
Speaker 1: to the best solution, everybody wins correct And it's very
31:11
Speaker 1: democratic too, even though there's only three of us, if
31:15
Speaker 1: two of us wanted to do it, that's the way
31:17
Speaker 1: the three of us did it. We have to take
31:20
Speaker 1: another quick break and then we'll be back with more
31:22
Speaker 1: from Graham Nash. We're back with the rest of Rick
31:28
Speaker 1: Rubin's conversation with Graham Nash. How popular were Crosby, Stills
31:34
Speaker 1: and Nash out of the box? People used to tell
31:37
Speaker 1: me you couldn't go past any college places to live
31:42
Speaker 1: where the window wasn't open, and Crosby, Stills and Nash
31:46
Speaker 1: music was coming out of it. We had created a
31:49
Speaker 1: sound that we knew it was going to be pretty popular,
31:54
Speaker 1: you know, because I mean between you know, the Birds
31:58
Speaker 1: and the Buffalo, Springfield and the Hollies, we had we'd
32:01
Speaker 1: had a lot of hit records. We knew what was popular,
32:04
Speaker 1: We knew what would grab people's is and we do
32:09
Speaker 1: that with Sweet Judy Blue Eyes. We knew that no
32:13
Speaker 1: one was going to get up and take the needle
32:15
Speaker 1: off the record. After that, you've got to hear what
32:18
Speaker 1: the rest of the record is. And it was the
32:20
Speaker 1: same when we did Deja Vu too. You know. I
32:23
Speaker 1: came to Stephen one day and said, you know, we
32:25
Speaker 1: don't have Sweet Judy Blue Eyes, and he said, I know,
32:29
Speaker 1: we used it on the Fish right. I said, no, no,
32:32
Speaker 1: you misunderstand me. We don't have that song where you're
32:37
Speaker 1: guaranteed that no one will get up and take off
32:39
Speaker 1: the needle of the record. He heard me. A day
32:43
Speaker 1: and a half later, we were staying at the Caravan
32:47
Speaker 1: Lodge motel in San Francisco because we were recording at
32:51
Speaker 1: while he hid his studios, And one and a half
32:53
Speaker 1: days later, after that conversation with Stephen, he goes, hey, Willy,
32:57
Speaker 1: what do you think of this? Don't we do? Do do? Do? Do?
33:00
Speaker 1: Do do do? And he played me carry on and
33:03
Speaker 1: I said, oh boy, did you just knock it out
33:08
Speaker 1: of the park. That's why he wanted it to be
33:10
Speaker 1: called Still's Crosby and yep, and you know he was
33:16
Speaker 1: right in thinking that. I mean, you mustn't understand Steven
33:19
Speaker 1: played most of the instruments on our first record, Yes,
33:24
Speaker 1: David and I did our You know, you play guitar
33:27
Speaker 1: on Long Time Gone On and play guitar on Guinevere
33:29
Speaker 1: and I play guitar on my songs. But Stephen played
33:33
Speaker 1: lead guitar, rhythm and guitar, bass, piano, B three and percussion. Yeah, brilliant.
33:40
Speaker 1: But ultimately it's about the songs. Yes, and everybody contributed
33:46
Speaker 1: to the songs, and the voices are the voices, and
33:49
Speaker 1: it's that combination. It really doesn't matter who contributes what
33:55
Speaker 1: if Again, if the thing is so good, everybody wins.
33:59
Speaker 1: So it worked out. Yes, it all works. I always
34:01
Speaker 1: want to win. When I'm faced with the problem, I
34:04
Speaker 1: try and figure out a solution where everybody wins. Yeah,
34:08
Speaker 1: it's the best. It's the best chances are if everybody wins,
34:13
Speaker 1: it's a better solution in terms of outwardly in the world,
34:17
Speaker 1: because if there were only three people involved and all
34:20
Speaker 1: three people are on the same page, the chances of
34:24
Speaker 1: more people being on the same page just seems statistically better.
34:29
Speaker 1: It makes sense. YEA it showed us. Yeah, if someone
34:32
Speaker 1: in the group doesn't like it, why would a stranger
34:34
Speaker 1: like it? Correct? You know, it makes sense, that's right,
34:37
Speaker 1: and that's why we only do songs that each of
34:39
Speaker 1: us loves beautiful. Another question about harmony. How much of
34:43
Speaker 1: the magic of different voices singing together can be planned
34:48
Speaker 1: versus it's just the nature of the voices and you
34:52
Speaker 1: can't plan it. There it was a combination of both,
34:55
Speaker 1: and we did sing a lot, you know, totally instinctively,
34:58
Speaker 1: but sometimes you have to really plan it, particularly when
35:02
Speaker 1: you added Neil Young to the combination. Three part harmony
35:05
Speaker 1: is very different than four part as you well know,
35:08
Speaker 1: and so we'd c S N Y vocals. Some of
35:11
Speaker 1: it was planned, like carry on with the song we
35:14
Speaker 1: were just talking about when we get to the very
35:18
Speaker 1: end there where we go almost acapella. We had to
35:21
Speaker 1: plan those harmonies because we added another voice. How did
35:26
Speaker 1: Neil end up in that picture? How did Neil join?
35:29
Speaker 1: Remember a moment ago I was telling you that Stephen
35:32
Speaker 1: played all the instruments or most of the instruments on
35:35
Speaker 1: that first record. Yes, instinctively we knew that this album
35:39
Speaker 1: that we had just put out was going to be very,
35:42
Speaker 1: very popular. We instinctively felt that and we were correct.
35:46
Speaker 1: Of course, the addition of Neil happened this way. Stephen
35:51
Speaker 1: and David were having dinner in New York City at
35:53
Speaker 1: arm at Erdigan's house. Arm it was the CEO of
35:57
Speaker 1: Atlantic Records, and he was a great fan of ours
35:59
Speaker 1: and protected us a great many times. For instance, we
36:04
Speaker 1: signed a contract first to do an album a year.
36:07
Speaker 1: We never did an album year's you know, sometimes there's
36:11
Speaker 1: many years between albums. But Armor protected us. And after
36:15
Speaker 1: dinner they were talking about the fact that we would
36:18
Speaker 1: have to go on the road, and he knew that
36:20
Speaker 1: Stephen to play most of the instruments, so he said out,
36:23
Speaker 1: I don't know he should get man. Steven said to Armor,
36:27
Speaker 1: oh you do? Who is up? He goes, well, Man,
36:31
Speaker 1: I think you should get Nail Young. And Stephen said, Armor,
36:36
Speaker 1: we've just been through two years of madness with this kid.
36:39
Speaker 1: You know, he's in the band, he's out of the band,
36:41
Speaker 1: he's not in the Vand yes he is in the band.
36:45
Speaker 1: He does want to do the Ed Sullivan Show. No,
36:47
Speaker 1: he's not doing the Ed Sullivan Show. Stephen said, do
36:49
Speaker 1: you want do you want me to do all that?
36:51
Speaker 1: And arm It said, and quite correctly, No, I'm just
36:54
Speaker 1: thinking of the music. I think that he would add
36:57
Speaker 1: something great to the band. And when Stephen and David
37:02
Speaker 1: kind of admitted to Armor that that was probably the
37:05
Speaker 1: right thing to do. When they told me, I said,
37:07
Speaker 1: wait a second, I'm never even met Neil Young. How
37:12
Speaker 1: can we add somebody to this band that I've never
37:14
Speaker 1: even met. I need to know whether I can be
37:18
Speaker 1: his friend, whether I could tell him secret I don't know.
37:23
Speaker 1: I don't know. I need to meet Neil Young. And
37:26
Speaker 1: so Neil and I had breakfast in the village here
37:29
Speaker 1: in New York, and I was convinced afterwards that yeah,
37:35
Speaker 1: this kid should should actually be in the band. He's
37:38
Speaker 1: a great songwriter. I personally feel that he's a great
37:42
Speaker 1: singer also, but I think Bob Dylan is a great
37:45
Speaker 1: singer too, and a lot of people you disagree with me,
37:48
Speaker 1: But that's how Neil Young came into the band. Amazing
37:52
Speaker 1: and hearing that story, what it makes me think of
37:56
Speaker 1: is Crosby, Stills and Nash were a vocal group, and
38:00
Speaker 1: by adding Neil it becomes a rock band. YEP. That's
38:05
Speaker 1: why he's there. Because Stephen and Neil play and I
38:10
Speaker 1: experienced this a thousand times. Standing in the middle of
38:15
Speaker 1: the stage while Neil Young and Stephen Stills are talking
38:19
Speaker 1: to each other with their guitars is an incredible moment,
38:23
Speaker 1: and it happened a thousand times for me. I would
38:27
Speaker 1: be astonished at their conversations that they could have with
38:30
Speaker 1: their guitars, both angry and loving. Their conversations with their
38:36
Speaker 1: guitars is something to behold. And I loved every moment.
38:42
Speaker 1: And there's no question that both of them respect each
38:45
Speaker 1: other's musicality in a way that they view each other
38:50
Speaker 1: as equals, so that also lends a great credibility. There's
38:57
Speaker 1: no sideman in that equation of those two guitar players,
39:01
Speaker 1: that's right. I remember one night on stage, Stephen did
39:05
Speaker 1: an incredible solo in one song and came up to
39:09
Speaker 1: me and he nudged me and he said, I can't
39:12
Speaker 1: do that. It's great. Yeah, Stephen and Neil have this
39:21
Speaker 1: magic between them that goes on to this day. I mean,
39:24
Speaker 1: I think they're going to play another Light Up the
39:27
Speaker 1: Blues show for Autism in Los Angeles in about a month.
39:32
Speaker 1: Oh beautiful, that'd be great. Tell me how songs get
39:36
Speaker 1: written and how do you write a song versus how
39:39
Speaker 1: you believe Still's Crosbie or Neil would do it. I
39:43
Speaker 1: think we write songs from the same place. First of all,
39:47
Speaker 1: we have to feel something. We have to hear something
39:50
Speaker 1: that pisces us off. We have to hear something that
39:53
Speaker 1: makes us fall in love. We have to hear something,
39:56
Speaker 1: and we have to feel something. And when I feel something,
40:00
Speaker 1: when I see something that's happening, when I check out
40:03
Speaker 1: the world news and something mad is going on. If
40:06
Speaker 1: I pick up on something that I don't think is right,
40:09
Speaker 1: I have to do my research and I recognize the
40:13
Speaker 1: fact that your words are very important. And once I
40:16
Speaker 1: get in that mood, I then need a title. And
40:20
Speaker 1: when I come up with the title, it usually ends
40:24
Speaker 1: up somewhere in the end of the first chorus. You know,
40:29
Speaker 1: I have to feel something, and when I do, I'm
40:32
Speaker 1: dedicated to making it the simplest, most communicative piece of
40:38
Speaker 1: music that I can make. I personally am not interested
40:43
Speaker 1: in waiting for seven minutes before you know what I'm
40:46
Speaker 1: talking about. I want you immediately, and I think I
40:50
Speaker 1: show that on this new record. I mean the opening
40:53
Speaker 1: line of my new record is I used to think
40:56
Speaker 1: that I would never love again. Wow, beautiful line. It's
41:00
Speaker 1: a strong line to open up an album with, but
41:04
Speaker 1: it indicates what's to come. It's a great opening line
41:09
Speaker 1: as it tells us so much and opens the door
41:13
Speaker 1: for now this. You know, it's like once upon a time,
41:16
Speaker 1: who know, there's going to be a big story following it.
41:19
Speaker 1: It's a line like that. It really is a what's
41:22
Speaker 1: going to happen now? Gets your attention and pulls you
41:25
Speaker 1: into the story. Yeah, and that's why the album is
41:28
Speaker 1: called now. It's called now beautiful. And there's a beautiful
41:34
Speaker 1: photograph of me that my wife Amy took, as she
41:37
Speaker 1: has done and crafted my image for the last five
41:41
Speaker 1: or six years. It's a beautiful shot of me. I
41:44
Speaker 1: do look my age and so what it's me now? Yeah,
41:49
Speaker 1: it's honest and there's nothing more powerful in music than honesty,
41:55
Speaker 1: all aspects of it. That's what attracts us warts and all.
41:59
Speaker 1: You know, we like the humanity in it. Yes, that's
42:04
Speaker 1: why the opening line of my album is so strong.
42:07
Speaker 1: I feel I wouldn't you want to hear what the
42:10
Speaker 1: rest of that song was? And then what's the rest
42:13
Speaker 1: of the album if you heard that? Absolutely, because I
42:15
Speaker 1: think absolutely. A lot of us feel the same way.
42:19
Speaker 1: A lot of us fall in and out of love.
42:21
Speaker 1: And when you're deeply in love and then it crumbles,
42:25
Speaker 1: you think that that's the end. I'll never love again.
42:29
Speaker 1: And I was looking at my age. I was eighty
42:32
Speaker 1: years old when I made this record, and I was
42:35
Speaker 1: looking at my life, and I realized that I'm getting on.
42:39
Speaker 1: I know that I'm coming to the end of an
42:43
Speaker 1: incredible life. I certainly hope to be around for at
42:46
Speaker 1: least the next twenty years, so I can be one
42:48
Speaker 1: hundred years old. And it's been a long, strange trip.
42:53
Speaker 1: To quote the dead, Yes, would you be up for
42:57
Speaker 1: playing us one of the new songs? Do you want
42:58
Speaker 1: to do that? Love to hear one of the new songs?
43:00
Speaker 1: Do you have a guitar handy that happens to be
43:03
Speaker 1: a Gibson right here? Okay, again, no obligation, but if
43:07
Speaker 1: it would be fun for you, I'd love to hear it.
43:09
Speaker 1: Let me let me see what I can do, Okay,
43:14
Speaker 1: Excited to get the flavor and see what you've been
43:18
Speaker 1: what's been on your mind? You know? Yeah, this song
43:21
Speaker 1: I wrote for my wife Amy. It's it's called Love
43:24
Speaker 1: of Mine. Very simple. It's just me on the record
43:29
Speaker 1: with my acoustic guitar and Todd Caldwell on piano, Love
44:04
Speaker 1: of Mine, I did mean to hurt your heart so badly.
44:14
Speaker 1: I didn't mean to make your soul so sad about
44:20
Speaker 1: me and you, Love of Mine, regretting every word I
44:36
Speaker 1: said to you. I can't take them back, but I
44:43
Speaker 1: wanted to for me and you. How can I help
44:55
Speaker 1: your heart that truly wants to heal? Can I ever
45:00
Speaker 1: make it right and tell the truth? I know its
45:09
Speaker 1: saptly how I feel. I don't want to be losing
45:15
Speaker 1: you tonight, Love her Mine. I can't believe I might
45:30
Speaker 1: be losing you, And as soon I'll thank the universe
45:36
Speaker 1: fusing you and me. That was beautiful. Thank you so
45:53
Speaker 1: much for playing that, and the emotion in it is
45:57
Speaker 1: very palpable. I love her I can feel it. I
46:02
Speaker 1: can feel it. We get to experience your love through
46:04
Speaker 1: hearing the song. Beautiful. Yeah, That's what I'm trying to do.
46:08
Speaker 1: I'm trying to touch you. It's interesting I asked you
46:10
Speaker 1: about writing songwriting and you answered the question as it
46:15
Speaker 1: relates to lyrics, So, for you, is the lyrical content
46:21
Speaker 1: of the song the primary part of it is the
46:25
Speaker 1: music just accompanying the words. Sometimes, yeah, I have this
46:30
Speaker 1: thing on my iPhone. I can be recording instantly, you know,
46:33
Speaker 1: So I put a lot of Really, I have this
46:35
Speaker 1: idea and I put it down and sometimes, like a
46:40
Speaker 1: little earlier, I was talking about, I need a title. Well,
46:43
Speaker 1: that title has a rhythm to it, you know, a
46:46
Speaker 1: vocal rhythm, and it might match a piece of music
46:51
Speaker 1: that I've got in my mind that I haven't put
46:53
Speaker 1: lyrics to yet. And so I in my mind, I
46:56
Speaker 1: have these bunches of music and these bunches of lyrics,
47:00
Speaker 1: and sometimes they marry, and that's how I write. That's
47:08
Speaker 1: the end of part one of Rick's conversation with Graham Nash.
47:12
Speaker 1: We'll be back apart two or Graham talks about the
47:14
Speaker 1: inspiration behind Rick's favorite CS songs and share a story
47:18
Speaker 1: about Joni Mitchell, Jared Garcia, and Marianne Faithful very soon,
47:22
Speaker 1: so make sure to check in for that. In the meantime,
47:25
Speaker 1: you can hear all of our favorite Process, Stills and
47:26
Speaker 1: Nash songs at Broken Record podcast dot com. You can
47:30
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash
47:33
Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our
47:35
Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record.
47:40
Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrell, Benaladay,
47:44
Speaker 1: and Eric Samer. Our editor is Sophie Craig. Broken Record
47:49
Speaker 1: is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this
47:52
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Speaker 1: Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if
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Speaker 1: you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and
48:09
Speaker 1: review us on your podcast. At a theme musics by
48:12
Speaker 1: Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond.