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Priests Before the Law · Pastor Plek's Podcast

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: And welcome back to Pastor Plex podcast.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Pastor Plik, along with none other than Pastor Holland.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Greg, how are we doing, Holland?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_00: Doing great.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Chris.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right, we got a couple questions from uh the fan base, and we want to jump right into those.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, first one comes from a listener.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: What were the roles of priests mentioned in the Bible prior to the law?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like Melchizedek and Jethro, and even Balaam.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Good question.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is an intense question because clearly there also you could say like uh Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, in a sense, were uh had a priestly type role even in their families, yeah, right before the law.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think, in fact, all the way down to Moses, honestly, is so so what do we have to say?
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just take a look at Melchizedek for a second and Jethro.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like uh when I think Jethro, remember, he's the priest of Midian, uh, who clearly worshipped uh Yahweh, he sacrifices to him.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I think in one point, Exodus 18, after you know, they all the Israelites, two million of them show up.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Jethro shows up with a fam.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, imagine being Jethro.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: You've you've given your daughter to Moses, who is now 80.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he goes, he goes back to pick up a couple people from Egypt, and he prom brings back two million of them, and he's about to leave them into the promised land.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and that's a wild thought.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, just uh just as a man, a human being, that's crazy, but he's also a priest.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: What and what do you think his role was back then?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a role of spiritual leadership, prophet, priest, and king are the three main offices, the three main official leadership um positions that mediated between God and people.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so prophets spoke to people on behalf of God, primarily.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, priests uh spoke to God on behalf of people, right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then kings ruled over the people under God.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so you have um really governance as a focus of kings, um, communicating a message from God for prophets and communicating the prayers of the people and the needs of the people and the sins of the people to God from a priest.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was that's even before the law, um, you have the importance of a spiritual leader who goes to God on behalf of his people.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I would say a priest is.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so what about these specific priests?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: Uh here's what's sort of wild when I think about um uh specifically Jethro.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: He is the descendant of Abraham through Keturah.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Remember his like I don't know, you may not know this.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like, after Sarah dies, he gets remarried, and this woman gives him a bunch of kids.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like she was not barren, and he was an old man, and you know, Midian is in that that mix, and he's a priest of Midian, so must be in that the bloodline of uh Abraham.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's kind of an interesting reality that remember, all nations will be blessed through Abraham, and so this is kind of convening back together Moses and and and you know the thing about Moses is he was although he was an Israelite, he spent most or well, he spent this first 40 years as an Egyptian, his next 40 years as a Midianite, and then his final 40 years as an Israelite, really is the best way to see that.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so when I when I look at this, I look at Jethro, who is a priest, kind of uh like saying, Yes, your God is the one true God.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We worship this same God who has you know spoken to him through obviously Mount Sinai.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Remember they they call it the mountain of God, yeah, and that's where Jethro was.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: So he had some sort of interaction with God on Mount Sinai.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Again, this is where we don't know enough, there is enough historical evidence, but he is what I really see what Moses does is he unites three different types of people: Egyptian, Midian, and Israelite, all under one God.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then he brings about the Mosaic covenant of like this is how you're to live under God's law for relationship with him.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that's a little bit too much to kind of put in that from a Jethro standpoint only, because we don't know enough about him.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: What we do know is that he ministered to the people as an intermediary intermediary on behalf of the medium people before Almighty God.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Priest taking going to God on behalf of the people.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: You see, you have sacrifices before the law.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: Remember uh Cain and Abel?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have a sacrifice right here in Exodus 18.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you have sacrifices before the law, you have prayer before the law, you have even Sabbath observance.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Remember um gathering the food in the wilderness, the manna?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_02: You didn't, you know, you rest on the seventh day.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you have a lot of these things that actually were spiritual principles and practices before they were codified in the law.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_02: And the same is true of, you know, the role of the priest, a spiritual leader who goes to God on behalf of his people.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what God's saying.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so what about Melchizedek?
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think Melchizedek is one of he there's only two Melchizedek comes up twice in the Old Testament.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: He comes up in Genesis, is it 22?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, Genesis.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's more like 14 or 15.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, Genesis 14.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Genesis 14, comes up, Genesis 14, then he comes up in Psalm 110, and then he shows up in Hebrews.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's got this Old Testament random story where uh he is just a priest, he bring um he's a high priest of God, and then he's also the king of Salem, and Abraham of all things offers tithes to him of all things.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you have tithing before the law, also.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: You have tithing before the law.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a it's a wild thing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so with Melchizedek, he remains mysterious, I think on purpose for God's purposes.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: He has no beginning, no end, is what Hebrews says.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then Psalm 110 gives us this wild I Psalm 110 is so crazy.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason why I say it's so crazy is because you would never think this was written before Jesus, like hundreds of years, maybe even a thousand years uh before Jesus shows up.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_00: Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord sends forth from Zion your mighty scepter, rule in the midst of your enemies.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: Your people will offer themselves freely on the day of your power in holy garments, from the womb of the morning, the dew of your youth will be yours.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, you are a priest forever after the order of Melchizedek.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which like he's only mentioned one time in Genesis 14.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: How in the world are you supposed to understand that in Psalm 110?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: This is David, by the power of the spirit, is prophesying a song, which there was no way he could understand what he was saying.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I just don't think there was any way.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_02: All right, here's here's the thing the Lord says to my Lord.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So the Lord, Yahweh, says to my Lord, some ruler over David.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: But who was the ruler over David?
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_02: God.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so there was no human ruler over David at that time.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: But David did know that God promised a future king from the line of David who would reign forever.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you're David, I I think you could logically reason that this king is going to somehow be a divine king, a king who's going to reign forever.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And if he's a divine king, then, you know, I, you know, who knows how much David knew.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: But you go, maybe he knew that he, you know, existed.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe David understood a little bit more about the Trinity than we realize.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_02: Don't know.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: But he he has this understanding that um this uh future descendant of his will be an eternal king somehow.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_02: And he's saying here he's also going to be a priest.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so who is the only other priest king that we know of in the Old Testament, Melchizedek?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: He was a priest of the most high God, and he was the king of Salem.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so the idea of the Messiah coming from David, who would be a priest king, who would not only govern the people, but uh mediate between the people and God.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And the only other person you have like that in the Bible is Melchizedek.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a it's it's a cool connection.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Jesus actually uh quotes Psalm 110.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh where was it, Matthew 22?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he's like after the Pharisees ask him question after question after question, he then's like, I got a question for you.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about the Messiah?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whose son, like, whose son is he?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: And they replied, Son of David.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Then he quotes Psalm 110.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, how is it that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him Lord?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which like you don't call your son Lord unless kind of what you said.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it that Psalm 110 to me is if there's any psalm to investigate and just pour over.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's so cool.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_02: It is like the coolest psalm.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much in there.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: And but yeah, Melchizedek becomes the way of understanding the idea of a priest king that would come from David and rule forever.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_02: And that's Jesus.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's that's that's awesome.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but we're gonna shift gears to the next question.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: All right, uh, it says this from one of our uh fearless listeners.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for this question, by the way.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I saw a Facebook post where someone cherry-picked Thessalonians 2, 14 and 15.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: If you can look that up.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's look it up to justify anti-Semitism.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: I looked up the full passage and saw that they were twisting it to spread hate.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: My first thought was to unfriend them, or maybe post the full context to expose their manipulation, but I doubt it would change their hearts.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious to hear your thoughts on this one.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_02: All right, here it is.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: 1 Thessalonians 2, 14 and 15.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_02: For you, brothers, became imitators of the churches of God and Christ Jesus that are in Judea.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: For you suffered the same things from your own countrymen as they did from the Jews, who killed both the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out, and displeased God, and oppose all mankind.
• 10:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: Keep going.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, keep going because the verse 16 is good, yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: By hindering us from speaking to the Gentiles that they might be saved, so as always to fill up the measure of their sins, but wrath has come upon them at last.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the I think what they're saying, or the person that took this verse, I think I would say out of context, is that that therefore all Jews are the enemy.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like they are the ones forever and ever and ever, their kids kind of take up this mantle of preventing, you know, driving Jesus out, drove us out, and displeased God and oppose all mankind.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think there that's problematic because of course we know there are Jews that have been saved.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: There are Jews that didn't hinder Paul.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_00: What's that?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like Paul.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Saul who became Paul, the guy that wrote the letter was a Jew.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly that can't justify a cultural hatred of um of someone an anti-Semite, for, for example.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and I think also remember, you this gets back into an anthropological statement that we find that shifts in the book of Ezekiel.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: You are only to die for your own sins.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, it isn't like your sins aren't put upon you to the fourth generation that in Ezekiel each one dies for his own sins.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: We sort of see that for his writing.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas I still think there's gonna be blessing for a thousand generations for God's people, but it is everyone must come before God and take on uh and either receive Jesus' forgiveness or um experience the wrath of God by rejecting him.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that ultimately is um is is those I don't not not that you're against our battle, isn't against flesh and blood, right?
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is uh Ephesians 6, but against the spiritual forces of darkness.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: And these particular Jews at this particular time were um effectively against Jesus and against his message and were enemies of God.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the answer wasn't to kill them, the answer was to pray for them and to try to win them over.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and maybe that's the part where even if they are your enemy, like whoever is your enemy, your answer isn't, oh, let's go blow them away.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is to pray for them and and pursue them in joy and peace.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, there's a lot there.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: I I think even so what complicates it is when you say Jew, right, you could that could refer to someone's ethnicity, right?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: It could refer to someone's religion, right?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: It could refer to someone's nationality or culture.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: So if they live in Judea, then you're a Jew, right?
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because that's you know, you're from Judea.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but a lot of the times those things are combined together.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but so Paul would be an example of someone who, you know, ethnically is a Jew, but religiously is not a Jew.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's a Christian.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and what it seems like what he's talking about here is those who were not just ethnically Jewish, but those who were religiously Jewish.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: And the Jewish religion on the whole rejects Jesus Christ.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: It 100% rejects Jesus Christ.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so, and the Jewish people in that time that rejected Jesus Christ were also persecuting the Christians.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what he's talking about.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he's saying, You in Thessalonica, you're suffering from Thessalonians, you know, who are persecuting you, but you're following the example of um, you know, the church is in Judea, right?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Who they were being persecuted by the Jews, just like they were being persecuted by the Jews, you're being persecuted by the Thessalonians, and you're remaining faithful, just like the church in Judea remained faithful.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_02: So he's making a connection there.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_02: What that doesn't mean is everyone who's ethnically Jewish um is needs to be purged.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, is is an enemy.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: But those who are religiously Jewish, Paul even Paul says Romans 11, 28, as regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_02: So they're enemies of the gospel.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, for your sake, because because it was because of the Jews rejecting the gospel that it goes out to the Gentiles.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: If all the Jews were like, We're on board, Jesus, you're the king.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: But they rejected it, and the gospel goes out to the Gentiles, and so the Gentiles are benefiting from the Jews rejecting it.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: So they're enemies of the faith.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: So from a um religious standpoint, how do you treat enemies of the faith?
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And relationally, you pray for them, you share the gospel with them, you bless them.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: You bless them.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um that doesn't mean that you uh affirm like uh lies or affirm that, you know, oh, their religion.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like I read something the the other day, it was like the ligonier state of theology survey.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: Have you seen those?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Ask a bunch of questions to Americans, and then you can filter it for evangelicals.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like 40, I think the number was 47% of evangelicals in America think that God accepts the worship of uh Jews and Muslims along with Christians.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: God accepts all worship.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: And so there is this mindset of like, oh, the Jews are um religiously, the Jewish religion is like, oh, they're they're good people who are, you know, they're gonna go to heaven.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: They don't understand.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: And same with Muslims, it's like you have to understand these are religions that explicitly reject Jesus Christ and desperately need the gospel.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there's yeah, it's it's not just like, oh, they have a faith in God, so they're saved.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: No, they reject Jesus, who is the way, the truth, and the life.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody gets to the Father except through him.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like you can still have a respect for Israel, but understand that they are not God's people because they've rejected God's son.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: You mean um now, see, even when you say Israel, do you mean uh those who are ethnically connected to or are you talking about the modern nation?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was saying modern day Israel.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes we want to like you can live in the nation of Israel, I can go move to Israel, you know.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And you could actually become or can't I?
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's say if you have a Jewish background, you can go live there and become a city, they'll pay you.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's a pretty good deal.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: But do you have to have a Jewish background to move there?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, but like you get there, they have a thing like it's uh, you know, they're calling the deal home or something.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh anyway, uh So it's important.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: I guess the point of all that is to distinguish what do you mean by Israel, what do you mean by Jew?
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and uh should you hate you know, Jewish people of the Jewish religion or the Jewish ethnicity?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: You there's a valid category of enemy of the gospel and that they reject Jesus, but the response to that should be to pray that they might be saved.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: That's what Paul said.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_02: He said, They're my kinsmen according to the flesh.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: I will think they might be saved and I be accursed, which it can't be happen, can't happen.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_02: So he had this desire that they would be saved and uh would say they are enemies of the gospel, but I I still want them to be saved.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um and Paul was a Jew who got saved.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_02: So but then he he no longer identifies as a Jew in terms of uh, you know, when he explains who he is, he says, I'm an apostle of Jesus Christ, a servant of Jesus Christ, right?
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: So Okay.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but are they wanting to know like what should they do?
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_02: Should they comment back?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're saying, like, I feel like they're this.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: And there's what do you think about that?
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, there's a time to engage online, and what they're saying, there's a time where you and I have both engaged online.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: We have in a lot in sort of some Facebook battles.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes I think, honestly, I think it's good uh to be a person that puts truth out there, especially in a world that when people live in echo chambers and they only hear their own perspective echoed back to them, and you go, actually, that's not okay.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I I've engaged quite a bit on things online, but there's also like I've passed over way more things than I've engaged on.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_02: You gotta, you gotta choose what's gonna be fruitful and if it's very important.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I look at it and I'm like, do I want if I just throw like a one shot out there and I don't have time to back it up with like more things, sometimes I feel like and I don't, or if I don't, I can only don't have time to have right an appropriate response that's yeah, compassionate yet at the same time truthful, and all the things I go, I don't have time for that.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um pray about it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, pray about it.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's the right thing, maybe it's not.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Pray about it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now, Paul does call himself a Jew uh whenever he was uh witnessing.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, he said uh he was addressing uh in Acts 22.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is this Agrippa?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Where he goes, uh, I'm a Jew from Tarsus and Silesia, citizen of no obscure city.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: I beg you, permit me to speak to the people.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Again, yeah, look look what he's saying, though.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: He's not saying uh his religion.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: He's saying, This is where I'm from.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is where I I lived.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um so he's not saying I'm one like he wouldn't include himself in the category of the Jews in terms of religion.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, he's a Christian, but in terms of his nationality, yeah.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: He was a Roman citizen, he was a Roman and he was a Jew in terms of where he lived.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was actually back in Jerusalem, where he goes, Hey, I'm a Jew.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and he's like, he was like, I will use whatever defense I can, uh-huh.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but I'm gonna go, and then he starts sharing the gospel.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: And then we the thing that was wild to me in that story, it's when Paul turns it from, hey, this the salvation is offered to the Jews to salvation is now offered to the Gentiles that everyone wanted to kill him.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's the part I don't understand.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't, and maybe it's like yeah, it's wild to me that that would be the thing that broke everything.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not that Jesus died on the cross, rose from the dead, he's the Messiah, the one you've been waiting for, but that now Gentiles everywhere are worshiping him like that.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: They all picked up rocks to stone him.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that might be it, that's an aside.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, uh, let's go on to uh last question before we jet out of here.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it says, I'm reading 2 Samuel now.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: In 1 Samuel 15, God rejects Saul as king because Saul did not kill all of the Amalekites and all of their livestock.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: Saul was to leave none alive.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Saul didn't do as the Lord commanded.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Why didn't God remove Saul from the throne at that time?
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: God allowed Saul to remain king and even allowed Saul to try to kill God's newly anointed David.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Was it to teach David something?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: Was it to let Israel suffer because they rejected God as their king?
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: David had two opportunities to take Saul's life, but David wouldn't do it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_00: He wouldn't raise against the Lord, raise his hand against the Lord's anointing.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: Was this God's way of letting God grow up and teaching David humility?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Great question.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: Way to go reading the Bible, first of all.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You are reading the Bible intensely.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate that.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, the two questions of what uh what was it?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is this uh why did he let why did why didn't God remove Saul right away?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_02: No, but the last at the end, was it to teach David something?
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: Was it to let Israel suffer because they had rejected God as their king?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's yes to both of those.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think God is always doing a lot of things with one thing, you know?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, they reject, they're like, no, we want a king like the other nations.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think part of it is God going, all right, here's the problem with kings.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then the other part is, okay, well, we know that um the furnace of affliction is where men are made.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so uh, if David's gonna be the king that God wanted him to be, he's got to go through the affliction for him to be ready.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's like a double, double whammy.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: He gets to kind of let Israel see the foolishness that they had kind of given into in wanting Saul in the first place, right?
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And and then also use that to prepare David for his reign as king.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's both.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and you really see, I mean, he's always called a man after God's own heart, uh, all throughout um his time of running away from Saul.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: Even when he goes to the Philistines and tries to hang out in Gath, uh, and even when he murders Uriah because he wanted his wife, got his repentance, his heart toward God, even though he does dumb things a lot, uh, he is a man that God loved and he wanted the best ultimately for Israel, even though he made poor decisions.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, which is comforting in many ways, because you're like, oh, I guess I'm not that lost of a hope.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, I that that makes sense to me.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: I think I think definitely God was doing both of those things, and you see what you know, what it required of David, like the example when he um could have taken his life but didn't.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: You know, those are testing moments, testing a man's heart um to see if he's the the kind of man you want to be a king, you know.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: And God already knows, obviously, but even though God knows, he tests us, right?
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: So those are tests for David that only came about because of the kind of the the poor kind of king that Saul was, you know?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, here's another question that just came in.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: We in our we as you know, we also do another path podcast called A Chapter Day.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh keeps the devil away.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I got this uh this one question says, okay, judge or sorry, Matthew 7.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: This passage is saying that I'm technically allowed to judge as long as I've as I've confessed, addressed, repented for my own sin.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Then I can judge others, deciding whether I should feel convicted or not.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_02: You should judge others uh with right judgment.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: And how what's the best way to do that, you think?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's the part where well, yeah, that's what the passage says.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_02: Take the log out of your own eye, yep, so that you can see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, kind of make sure you're in a place of um uh you're not looking, you're not coming with uh haughty eyes.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: We read in Proverbs this morning in the men's group about having haughty eyes, um, a proud or arrogant spirit, that you're not coming into it like that way.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: The um judgment, we often think of judgment very negatively as in like, oh, you're you're just saying something mean about someone or you're picking on them or you're looking down on them.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: But judgment, just what the word means is like you're discerning something, you're making a moral evaluation.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that's obviously an important part of the Christian life in community, is that you make moral evaluations about your own self and about the community that you're a part of.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_02: And to do that with haughty eyes and arrogance is very unhealthy.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: But to do it with humility and grace and love is a good thing.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, and the the reason why people I think take this verse, I don't want to say out of context, but say, judge not that you be not judged.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, and then he explains it, for with a judgment you pronounce, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're going around uh judging people for their conduct, are you doing the same thing, perhaps in a different way, and you're blind to it.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you usually, and this is why I always say to people, like if you notice arrogance in someone, you're probably not liking the very thing that's in you that you see in them.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're like, man, that guy's so arrogant.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then you don't realize your arrogance may not be external, right?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're sharing it with everyone how how great you are, but it's internal, where you're just kind of walking around going, like, suckers, I'm way better than you.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where Jesus says, like, the one who can judge the heart is ultimately going to be the one that that sees that.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then what's cool is like, hey, take the log out of your own eye, see your own darkness, and start there.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, hey, I've got this issue too.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: I just wanted you to know that I love you enough to help you take the log out of your own eye or the speck out of your eye.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: But then, verse six, do not give dogs what is holy and do not throw your pearls before pigs lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: In other words, sometimes you might have the right truth and it's the wrong time because that person isn't ready for it, and they turn on you and attack you, and that could be um a negative consequence of you genuinely trying to help somebody with wisdom.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: Uh 1 Corinthians 5, you know, the guy who's sleeping with his mother-in-law.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, or dad's wife, yeah.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, so his original mom is no longer the picture.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: His dad remarried and he's sleeping with her.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I always thought it was mother-in-law.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, so yeah, father's wife is what is is Yeah, father's wife.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But but it, you know, it could be his is now his mother-in-law.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, on that passage, when Paul's saying, um, hey, you need to kick him out of the church if you won't repent.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, because a little leaven leavens the whole lump.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_02: And um don't even associate with, don't even eat with such a one, he says.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And then he's he clarifies, he says, I don't mean to not associate with the sexually immoral in the world.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_02: You'd have to go out of the world.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, of course, you should be, you know, doing evangelism and building friendships and relationships with people who are sexually immoral that are not Christians.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_02: But if someone claims to be a Christian and lives that way, then you need to um uh kick them out of the church, you know, if they're not gonna repent.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_02: And what he says at the end of that is for what have I to do with judging outsiders, right?
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: This I'm not talking about people outside the church, I'm talking about inside of the church.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: He says, Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: Literally says that you are supposed to judge those inside of the church, meaning you ought to make moral evaluations.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: Does the way someone lives line up, line up with the faith that they profess?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: If not, then yeah, of course you got to address that with love.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: Galatians 6, you know, if anyone's in sin, you who are spiritual should go to them in a spirit of gentleness and correct them.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think for us as a church, what we decided on this was those who we affirm their salvation through their membership, we we say, and you want us to judge you.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's kind of when you become a member of our church, you're saying, please look at my life and speak into it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and so, like, let's say if you're just kicking the tires, but you don't really know that you're not a Christian, I always have to unconvert people before we convert them.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you really don't love Jesus.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I would love to share with you who Jesus is, but let's not pretend that you're a Christian, but you don't, you know, you you worship me with your lips, but you don't do what I say, uh, is what a lot of people end up doing.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I think right here is a great example of like, what are you to do with someone who is a a member of the body of Christ?
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: You want them to feel the weight of their sin that separates them from God because uh if we just kind of go like, oh, it's okay, you know, Jesus forgives you, it's cool, and they're not repentant, that's a problem.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's gonna hurt their.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Soul, it's gonna corrupt the community, it's gonna be bad.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what the what it doesn't mean though, Matthew 7, is that just kind of make sure that you're doing everything right, and then that gives you permission to like be a jerk to other people and to say you know uh you know rude things or look down on them.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's not permission to be rude as long as you're kind of like obviously like that's not what Jesus is saying.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's saying that in order to um the you know the jud the measure that you use will be used against you, make it a good measure.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um if if you're gonna judge people, let it not be from a place of arrogance, but a place of humility, of love, remove the log, you know, address the spec, because that's how you would want to be judged by others as well, right?
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: I love it.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly right.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right, guys, thanks so much for watching.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to text in a question, it's 737 231 0605.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: We'd love to hear from you.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh we'll see you again next time from our house to yours.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Have an awesome week.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: Abortion