Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S4 E5 - Sibling Killers - Part One

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S4 E5 - Sibling Killers - Part One · True Crime and Wine Time

0:00
Mmmm, hey there, how are you today? Oh you weren't. You
0:16
weren't talking to the listeners. You were talking to me. He was talking
0:19
to you. Well, you know, I'm okay, it's been a day.
0:25
You can just run my face, you know, across the concrete.
0:30
It'll be fine. Okay, maybe I won't ask how your day is.
0:36
But yes, hello to our listeners. But they can't answer me back,
0:39
so they'll just have to add me and tell me how they are. But
0:43
I'm excited to be back recording. Yes, me too. We have a
0:48
crazy topic today and some great bad good bad good cases, you know,
0:54
a little bit of both. I know it's always like do I say they're
0:57
a good case when they're really bad and dark? Or is that a bad
1:00
case? Or it depends on who's looking at it right, they're interesting.
1:06
I once said that something was fascinating and everybody was like, that really sounds
1:10
like you're saying it's good. And I'm like, but no, it doesn't
1:11
mean it's good. It could be both. It's just fascinating with how bad
1:17
it is. But you know, if you want to rhetorically challenge me,
1:21
feel free go for it. Well, and I am drinking a cocktail instead
1:26
of wine. So I don't know if that means beware or what. But
1:33
the good news is I only have one of them. Our last recording,
1:38
I drink the entire bottle. That was a good recording. So this I
1:44
have one cocktail. One cut. I was gonna say, I'm drinking.
1:49
It's called Pretty Rad and it's kind of cool. It's got seasonal syrup,
1:55
citrus hibiscus, ginger beer, dehydra, did lemon glitter, and then it
2:04
came with a glow stick to stir glitter. It had edible glitter, so
2:09
I'll send me a picture. I had to put it in a different glass
2:13
because I had it in a Martini glass and I just cause visualize this being
2:16
all over the board being a mess, so I had to pour it in
2:22
a different glass. But yeah, it's this cool company called Team Class and
2:27
you make the cocktail. So I love the fact that you and I didn't
2:32
really talk about what we were bringing to drink, and yet we both brought
2:36
something completely different than we've ever brought really before. Well then I have brought
2:42
I never have done this, but I did give it a goog this edible
2:47
glitter. It does have to come out of your body. It does have
2:53
to come out of your by who I would hope, So thank you.
2:57
So wait, wait, what are you saying? You're gonna have glitter poop?
3:00
That's right, early digest glitter, so it's not exactly edible per se,
3:07
it's you can edible it. But you're also gonna yep, that's fun.
3:13
So when they say listen for like two days, you'll be a unicorn,
3:17
it's cool. Yes, But I asked hand somebody, I'm like,
3:21
should I take to a picture if it sparkles? He goes, please,
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don't that means do it? That means I mean I love all things that
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glitter. So you know, yeahs you got the GPS. So what are
3:37
you drinking today? The high class combination of rum and ginger. I I
3:44
don't know why. I didn't really have coke, didn't I didn't have bourbon
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because I usually like that with or gin. I like gin and ginger O
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why ginger I I don't know. I think it's just what was in front
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of me, and I said why not? And I just wanted to cut
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it has hibiscus ginger beer, so like ginger beer. I'm also not a
4:05
huge fan. I'm not a huge fan of rum. But at the same
4:10
time, I only had like Apple whiskey, and that's not a huge fan
4:16
like favorite for me. I prefer gin at this point in my life because
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I'm old and groggy and get off my damn lawn. But yeah, so
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this is Sailor Jerry spiced rum. I don't know if it's bottom shelf or
4:29
midshelf. It might be midchelf, although the size tells me it's what do
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you see the label though? Was it was that like a whole hot chick
4:39
gone there? Yeah? Oh it's a hula girl. Yeah, so how
4:45
about that a hula dance for everybody? It's good. It's a solid ninety
4:47
two proof. Hey, they say bold and smooth as hell. Love it.
4:54
And then Canada Dry is Canada Dry. And I've got some lovely little
4:58
I'm not gonna meld on you ice cubes. Okay, I love those because
5:03
in your drink doesn't get watery. I do like them. But I just
5:08
bought the round molds to make the ice balls because I planted miniature rose bushes.
5:14
Because when I was in Florida last year, they took miniature roses put
5:17
them in there, and then they put flavoring and the water or they did
5:23
a thing like with lavender or elderberry. Then it mixes with the flour and
5:27
you drop it in your drink. I love that. I'm going to try
5:30
to be bougie and do that. I had like the whiskey stones that are
5:35
like the Rocks, but somewhere they got lost in the move years and Go,
5:41
and so I just went with these lovely plastic, classy ones because That's
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where I'm at right now. But they work, right, do they do?
5:50
They work well? I am going to just assume that this episode's going
5:55
to contain graphic content, adult language, and I'm going to guarantee will not
6:00
be suitable for all listeners. Little delicate ears should probably not listen. It
6:06
is definitely not good for kids. I can guarant damt it. See you
6:11
right off the bat, you do it. Why don't you tell us what
6:14
our topic is today? Because it was an an interesting research project? Okay,
6:20
cool, cool, cool, I'm not crazy. Our topic today is
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siblings that kill boy? Oh boy? Is it a doozy? Well,
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and that's why I messaged you today that you know, I wake up every
6:34
morning and I have my coffee, read the news and I see you the
6:38
thing not covering this case. But there was a headline twin Rhode Island,
6:44
sisters killed their dad with garden shears during an argument about cats. You know.
6:49
And it's really funny because a friend of mine, Bob Mada, who
6:54
runs Defense Diaries that podcast, he said, you know, the twelve catch
7:00
would have been a red flag and has a point. He's not wrong.
7:06
Actually, I would love to have him on our show sometime soon. We
7:10
should. He's great as long as he doesn't have twels. No, I
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don't think so. He has four kids, but not twelve cats. I
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mean, if I have to be honest, there was a time that we
7:20
had thirteen cats. Oh that's a lot. And you know what, but
7:26
we had a cat that had kittens. She had eight kittens. She had
7:30
been found as astray. We took her in. Six weeks later she had
7:32
kittens and we got rid of all of them kittens. And I do want
7:36
to be clear, if you have a lot of cats, that's fine.
7:39
In fact, you know my friend from spine Chillers and Serial Killers, Emma,
7:44
she has a lot of cats. And the reason why she has a
7:46
lot of cats is because she finds them and they come to her. France
7:50
isn't exactly well known for their animal welfare, right, and so she brings
7:56
them in and she takes care of them, and I find that awesome.
8:00
But she wouldn't kill her dad overcats. I'm a scene. I don't think
8:05
so. I would like to think not. But i'd also like to think
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that if she did, she'd be cool with me covering the case. So
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I'm sure she would be because we would do it very well. It's it's
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so funny. It's not funny. It's interesting when you sent me that link
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because at the same time, or around that same time, I've been researching
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for BRU Crime to do a case from nineteen forty eight where somebody killed their
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mother with pruning shears, and so it was like, wows, yeah,
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yeah, it was interesting, But that's the year I was born. By
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the way, nineteen forty eight. That's not true at all. That's so
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not true. My granddaughter says I'm older than Dirts, and I think Dirts
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like nineteen eight, just tossing that out there. I'm not quite nineteen four.
9:03
But no. The interesting thing about that case, just like our topic,
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is that it was two siblings that apparently felt the same way about something
9:11
at the same time and went for it. Now, are you a sibling?
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I sure am. I am too. Now are you close with your
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siblings? Yeah? Yeah, I've got one brother. He's two years younger
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than me. It's hard to and I explained it a little bit in in
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my case, but like you know, we're military kids, and we're used
9:31
to being away from family and each other. And so my brother and I
9:33
can go week, weeks or a month without talking and then hop right back
9:37
into it without a problem. Yeah. And he stationed over in Monterey Bay,
9:43
California right now, Oh, beautiful place to be. Yeah, yeah,
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it's a super nice place. I hate him. I don't hate him,
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but we're really I mean, we're close because we grew up moving around
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and I'll mention it, but you know, we were only friends, right
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the only we were the only constant, right, as I say, the
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consistent, the constant, And so I don't know what that's like to live
10:05
in one place forever and then just have other opportunities in terms of long term
10:09
friendships. Now I do, but right then not? But what about you.
10:16
I have a brother and it's complicated and we are not close. There
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is a time that we were closer, but I think when you grow up
10:26
in the household with my dad was an alcoholic, it was a very difficult
10:31
thing. Plus I hung out with my grandmother, who lived just a couple
10:35
of miles away, all the time because when my mom had me, she
10:39
had complications, and so I lived with my grandmother for the first year of
10:43
my life pretty much. And you were put that bond. We're not close.
10:48
I always hope that he has a great life, and he is in
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law enforcement, so I do always worry about when there's police shootings and things
10:56
like that, especially in Texas. How do I feel like he's the younger.
11:01
He's not. He's eighteen months older. Oh man, eighteen months older
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now. He did. When I was a little girl, I believe I
11:09
was about six months old, he tried to feed me Vienna sausage and was
11:13
shoving them in my mouth. I was told. I was like, oh,
11:16
you were like you were like the baby life version of that gift with
11:20
all the hot dogs in theirs. I was like wow. And because as
11:24
we got older, living in Houston, we had Vienna sausage in the pantry
11:28
for hurricane season. It was called hurricane food because you just popped the top
11:33
open and you can eat it. And I was like, I don't think
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there was a hurricane. Was he trying to feed me or kill me?
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Yes? A little both, But like I said, you know, complicate.
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I think it's fascinating. Like, for instance, and I can only
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speak to my experience, but my brother and I, obviously, you know,
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raised the same way, same family, same experiences for the most part
12:00
in terms of moving and stuff, but we are two completely different people.
12:03
My two sons, yeah, oh yeah, Son and Moon, I mean
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the opposite. I don't know how is that from a parental side, because
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from a sibling side, from a kid's side, it's like, you know,
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I'm the five foot eleven nerd true crime podcaster and he's the six foot
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four surfer military guy. And I'm dumpy and he's hunky. That's well.
12:31
And the funny thing about my two boys, the older one looks like his
12:37
dad, favors his dad more, I'm sorry, Jeff, and the younger
12:41
Win looks just like me. But the older Win personality, our personalities are
12:46
almost the same. Younger Win may look like me, acts just like dad.
12:52
Yeah, So it's interesting that their personalities are more in tune to the
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person. They're like, are you and your brother? Are you more like
13:03
your mom or your dad? Or you know what. It's really interesting because
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I feel like the older I've gotten the closer in terms of, like,
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you know what I do, the closer to dad. I'm a blend.
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We'll go that route. I'm a blend. I like studying. I like
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classes like my mom, and I love art and acting and singing and podcasting
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like like, I like all that kind of stuff like my dad. And
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so I'm a blend. I think my brother is a lot like my dad.
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Not that he's not liking right, he doesn't like classes, but but
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I think he carries a lot of my dad with him. But my son,
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my older son, has no filter like me. Sometimes he would say
13:46
things and I'd be like, Jeff, you're going to really have to learn
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how to filter that out. And now that you know he's in those thirties,
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I'm like, Okay, you've gotten much better. I think things and
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h handsome. You'll look at me and he goes, yeah, I could
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see Jeff saying that too. I just shared with you on Facebook Messenger a
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picture of my brother. He is right in the center of that photo.
14:05
And so when I say dumpy and hunky, you'll understand what I mean.
14:09
In just a moment. Okay, I have to go look and this will
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not be available publicly for anybody. Oh why not, it says, thinking,
14:22
thinking, Okay, there it is. He's a cool dude. He's
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an intel and intelligence I really, I mean, I love him to day.
14:30
He's the one in the middle. And that's okay. Yeah, sure,
14:33
y'all are related. Oh yeah, I'm certain I know he does spartan
14:41
wow. Oh yeah, he does like the fifty mile runs and stuff like
14:45
that. Once again, why do people run if no one's chasing you,
14:50
why are you running? You're gonna have to ask him that question. You're
14:54
gonna have to ask him that question. I don't know. I would rather
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lift a glass of bourbon. And that's why I look like I do so
15:01
well. But think about it this way. We all have to be totally
15:05
different, or how boring would the world beat because like my brother and I,
15:09
the only thing we have in common, I mean, him being a
15:11
law enforcement is you know, the love of crimes and law and things like
15:18
that. Other than that, I think he used to like wine I'm guessing
15:22
he still drink swine. Other than that, we didn't have a lot of
15:26
things in common. Yeah. I was girly Carrol, he was boy boy.
15:31
Well yeah, and it sounds like it sounds and now now I'm going
15:35
to reduce this so you can you can digitally slap me. But it sounds
15:39
like there's a combination of like cowboys and little House on the Prairie in terms
15:43
of how you're Yes, you know, you had you had described it.
15:46
I was Laura Ingles, Okay, I was, you know, speaking of
15:50
Laura Ingles. That is so funny that you said that we just took the
15:52
granddaughter camping. Oh god, I was trying to sweep the area we were
15:58
going to put the tip, so I literally had brought a broom and I
16:02
was sweeping the dirt to get rid of the rocks. It's like I was
16:06
trying to get the rocks out from underneath, not the dirt. And it
16:11
was just kind of funny. I absolutely love this image that's in my head
16:17
right now, the dirt, sweeping the dirt. So the other thing,
16:22
did you see that that Polish woman who claimed to be Madelene McCain is not
16:26
Madeleine McCain. They did the DNA test and she is not her parents are
16:34
her mom is her mom, but they are investigating apparently maybe the mom was
16:41
trafficking her. Oh god, well, though she did have a very trauma
16:45
filled life, yeah for sure. And I mean, and she does have
16:49
the thing on her eyes. She does have a lot of reasons it would
16:53
make her think that. But yeah, so she is not Madeleine McCann,
16:59
but they are fine out. Her father, who she was told was her
17:02
father, is not her father. It's one of those things where I didn't
17:07
hear about it. But also, this is my surprised face, like audible
17:11
gasp. I feel bad. This is not the first time this has happened
17:15
to her, to Madeline's parents, correct, it's not this one. I
17:19
just thought there was more believable because she did have the spot on her eye,
17:23
which is very rare. I had that little bit of hope that just
17:29
maybe and I know that sounds horrible, that you don't want any child to
17:34
be, you know, taken and then to be found, But then there's
17:37
that part of like, oh my god, finally to have the answers to
17:41
know your child's alive to you know, but then to find out. No,
17:45
but I don't think the girl did it okay to be malicious, she
17:51
truly, I mean, I think she has some mental things going on in
17:53
some trauma. But if you've got, you know, the birthmark on your
17:57
arm, and you've got the thing on your eye that matches, and your
18:00
family has no pictures of you, and your earliest memory is kind of being
18:06
at a resort and those things, I mean I could kind of see.
18:08
Yeah. No, absolutely, things play tricks on you. Yeah, So
18:15
I know this won't come out for a little bit. So the other big
18:18
news is I want to thank you for listening to True Crime and Wine Time,
18:29
and if you enjoy our podcast, it would mean the world to me
18:32
in a handsome hubby if you would go to Apple podcast or wherever you listen
18:36
to your favorite podcasts and give us a review five stars in one sentence.
18:41
It only takes a minute and means the world to us and helps keep that
18:47
wine flowing. So the other big news is the first time ever a former
18:59
president's arrested. We're gonna lose like half of our audience. Now, I
19:04
just have to tell y'all, I did not know this, and I found
19:08
this out from my dear boss for my day job, who's in Finland.
19:15
Did you know we're the only place, the only country that a person can
19:21
be president and have a felony? Honestly, I mean, I haven't googled
19:25
it, but I trust us. But I'm like, how do we allow
19:27
that? So if you get out of jail for bank robbery because you went
19:33
in at a really young age, you could still be president? Yeah?
19:37
I don't so really, what it comes down to is all or nothing.
19:41
Lock him up for a long time, or he could still be president.
19:42
I mean, he's obviously proven. The fact that he is twenty twenty four
19:45
is candidate. You know, I makes what if he wasn't our president or
19:51
hattan been our president. What about a candidate just out of the blue running
19:56
for president we find out they had there were a felon. They can't vote
20:00
in certain states, But how could you be president if you can't vote?
20:06
How can you be president? Yeah? That I don't know, but I
20:10
know that the deep dives that people do, that would come out way quickly
20:14
and they'd be out before anything happened. It's not against the rules. Yeah,
20:18
well, you know, I mean there's a lot of things that aren't
20:21
against the rules that still in a lot of states. But yeah, you
20:23
can be president of the United States if you have a felony. Well I
20:29
was, I was more. I mean, I wasn't surprised. I figured
20:33
this was going to happen, but I was amazed that he arrived. He
20:37
was fingerprinted in mugshot, he was indicted, and then he was like,
20:41
all right, I'll see you later. Bye. If it was anybody else,
20:44
that wouldn't have happened. But they did give him some bit. But
20:48
it's also class E felonies. I believe, cannot believe it's going to be
20:55
a circus. It's not a surprise to anybody. But like also on my
20:59
Twitter, I put the same same thing. I don't care while I do
21:00
a little bit what side of the fence you're on. There's a point in
21:04
which I don't care, but once you pass that point, I do.
21:07
But you don't. You don't intimidate, threaten whatever a judge or anybody by
21:15
posting their children. I don't care how the children are and what they've done.
21:19
They've done, you just don't do it. And I agree. So
21:22
that's a problem, and I think that's going to come back to bite them.
21:26
I'm gonna be honest with you. He already didn't like Trump, That's
21:29
very obvious. I mean, now that'll give them cause to remove the judge
21:33
from the case. And I think it's going to be a ploy to drag
21:37
this out past election, because then it will happen. They will table it
21:42
until he's at the office. There will be a stay. I'm what I'm
21:45
hoping is that, you know, the United States decides to do exactly what
21:48
Wisconsin just did and show up in droves and vote in or vote out or
21:56
very conservatives justice. I think it was or a court point. I mean,
22:00
that was unprecedented, right, I don't know. I have no idea
22:03
anymore. I don't know what's going to happen. And does who does Trump
22:10
have a sibling? Yeah? I think her name's Mary, and she hates
22:12
his guts. She wrote a book about him and it wasn't nice, and
22:18
by that I mean it was great. I think her name's Mary. I'm
22:23
gonna happen right now. I'm usually talking about, Oh my god, he
22:29
has multiple siblings, Fred Trump Junior, Mary Ann Trump, Barry Elizabeth Trump,
22:37
Growl, and Robert Trump. So he has four siblings. We don't
22:41
hear about the junior who usually gets much of everything. Yeah, well,
22:47
I haven't opened. I mean, he could maybe be deceased or something and
22:48
maybe died as a child. I don't know. Let me, I don't
22:52
know. I think it's safe to say, being like neutral, that this
22:56
is buck wild. I do appreciate the video that I saw. I'm doing
23:03
this now like I'm Trump. I'm doing I do appreciate what I saw yesterday
23:08
in which Marjorie Taylor Green arrived in New York, stepped out of her car
23:15
and like five minutes later was ran back into her car, and now people
23:19
were yelling hit her with the Jewish space lasers, hit her with the and
23:25
like then of course she got in her car and made it work for her
23:27
and saying that everything's dirty and Donald Trump is literally she compared him to Nelson,
23:33
Mandela and Jesus. So you know we're we are mentally put together.
23:38
We are. But no, Fred Trump Junior died in nineteen eighty one,
23:42
is why we don't hear him. He was forty two. He died from
23:45
a heart attack. It was Donald and then his was a federal judge on
23:56
the Third Circuit Court of appeals. What yeah, Marianne, Yeah, she
24:02
went legit as far as we know. Yeah. So. And then Elizabeth
24:06
is an older sister of Donald Trump. She married a film producer, and
24:12
she worked as an admin assistant for Chase Bank before retiring to Florida. Lives
24:18
in Florida. I love her. She worked as an assistant or whatever,
24:22
and then all of a sudden, she's like, you know what f this,
24:26
I'm going to Florida. I got the money, It's fine. Yeah.
24:29
And then Robert Trump was the younger brother. He died in twenty twenty.
24:34
Okay, he was an executive manager. So he's got siblings. He's
24:38
got siblings, but Mary wasn't one. Mary must be something else, and
24:42
it is. It looks like it's an aunt, an aunt. So that
24:47
was his dad or his mom's sister. She does not like him, and
24:52
honestly, good for you. I don't know. I don't know Mary Trump
24:59
about her uncle. She wrote a book too Much and how my family?
25:07
Yep, the World's Most Dangerous Man? Does it tell all book? Oh?
25:11
She's a psychologist, Yes, yes, I do remember that. I
25:15
have to get that book. Just her. I love to read stories,
25:21
you know, I mean, I love crazy shit. Like I said,
25:25
I think it boils down to this is buck wild, and I think no
25:30
matter where you're at, that probably checks out for you. But between between
25:36
Donald and Letitia Storch, I don't know what to do with myself. Have
25:41
you heard about this case in Colorado? Oh? Oh, okay, So
25:45
Letitia Storch was a step mom to Gannon Storch and you may have seen a
25:52
little bit about this Justice for Gannon on Twitter. And so the stepmother was
25:57
watching Gannon and the father was at a training. I think he I think
26:03
at some point he was actually like a like a shoot. He was in
26:07
the military and he worked on enlisting people. What is that called. I
26:11
don't remember, it doesn't matter anyway. So at some point he was away
26:15
and she she ended up I think personally, I think she burned him on
26:22
purpose with a candle or with some other flames. She said about this,
26:27
Yeah, so she said that he was burned. She said that there were
26:30
bubbles on his skin, which indicate blisters, which indicates second degree burns,
26:34
which means that no kid's going to hold their arm over a candle or fire.
26:37
No, because you're oh, yeah, you see. Yeah. So
26:41
Okay, now I see the picture, and I yeah, I think she
26:45
didn't know how to fix that, and so she ended up I'm not going
26:49
to go into details, you don't need to, but she ended up killing
26:52
Gannon. She put him in a suitcase and she ended up driving him across
26:56
the country to Florida and dumped the suit case. Well, a week or
27:02
two later or whatever, you know, a little longer than that. I
27:04
think it was like a month or so he was found. Throughout that time,
27:08
she was putting on this show telling stories, and by stories, I
27:11
mean she literally had five different stories of what happened. Anyways, the trial
27:17
is going on now, and the first the first day listening to opening was
27:22
very hard. It was very emotional, but the this well not but but
27:30
in the second and third day we were listening to primarily a lot of phone
27:33
calls because the dad was recording their calls because at a certain point, I
27:38
think he was working with police, and so listening to her go through the
27:42
story and listening to her narcissism, et cetera, et cetera. She's pleading
27:48
guilty by reason of insanity, and so there's that part taking care of the
27:52
guilt, right, But The reality is is that she knew enough to know
27:57
that that was bad. She did she was going to hide him, and
28:03
then she knew that was bad, and so she came up with an alibi,
28:06
and then she came up with another one and added and added to it.
28:10
And listening to those voicemails Number one is heartbreaking, obviously, but it's
28:14
fascinating because as the voicemails go on here not voicemails, but phone conversations.
28:18
As they go on weeks and weeks, you can hear the guilt get to
28:22
her and break her down. And I think that she thought she'd be perfectly
28:26
fine, but you can hear her desperation to get her story across. It's
28:33
literally like a living version of crime and punishment. It's fascinating. Okay,
28:38
So what I'm hoping, and I think it's safe to say, I'm hoping
28:41
the jury finds her guilty flat out. I don't think there's any piece of
28:47
this that is by insanity. I think she had way too much understanding of
28:51
what was going on and the law it's exacting. If she put him in
28:53
a suit, I mean, she did things that if you're insane, you
28:57
wouldn't normally do right right exactly, and so you know, it's obviously horrifying
29:03
to listen to. And a lot of people have actually that I know of
29:06
that I participate in conversations about trials about they've checked out, and I totally
29:11
understand, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I just have this
29:15
urge to be like, I want to see this through in terms of seeing
29:22
Gannon get the justice he deserves. Because he was like eleven, he didn't
29:26
come on. You know what I remembered about him because of reason, I
29:29
didn't remember his name. He was the kid that the dad said. The
29:33
last thing he said to him was I'm going to go finish playing Pokemon and
29:37
maybe in that Pokemon weirdo that still plays Pokemon. That's what I remember.
29:45
You play Pokemon Go. You know a few weeks ago. I learned the
29:49
card game, so see get on my level. Oh well, my granddaughter
29:55
plays the card game. I do not. I will never buy Pokemon cards
30:03
my children. One time my boys were sitting on top of each other beating
30:07
each other up over Pokemon cards. I took the Pokemon cards, taught them
30:11
if they did it again, they were gone. They did it again,
30:15
I tore them all up, and I'm broken right now. I get it,
30:19
like as a parent, I get it, but also I'm broken on
30:22
the inside. But like you know, warren Son told me that he was
30:29
into it. I was like, look at dad, and I have an
30:32
entire binder full of them. And it just so happened that I lived in
30:33
Japan when they came out, and so I have like like fifty percent of
30:38
my cards are in Japanese, right, so that's not helpful to play.
30:41
But you know, I see they didn't play the game. They just collected
30:47
them and they wanted to get this card and that card, and I'm taking
30:51
that for me. And I was just like, Doug, I will never
30:53
forget my brother and I having this exact same argument. But it was between
30:57
a Scottie Pippen and Tony Ko coach basketball card. And I will be honest
31:03
with you, it had nothing to do with the sports. It had everything
31:06
to do with a design and how cool it was. I am not a
31:10
sports exactly for fun. I do not have enough testosterone in my body to
31:15
tell you what a statu is. But like you cut it into that card
31:19
because of the design, Yeah, for literally no reason whatsoever, But yeah,
31:25
anyways, So that's you know, that's a lot of the current news,
31:29
right it is. Now we get to talk about sibling killers. I'm
31:33
gonna tell you My case was one I didn't know a lot about. I
31:40
had hurt things, you know, little bits and pieces, so I truly
31:45
enjoyed researching the case. I will say it got a very confusing. The
31:52
boys decided to go by their middle names and not their first names, so
31:59
Benjamin mat Few Williams and James Tyler Williams. Benjamin most of the time went
32:05
by Matthew, but then sometimes went by Benjamin. James always went by Tyler.
32:09
So when you're reading news articles, it depends on who wanted to calling
32:15
Matthew, who wanted to do this. And I was like, okay,
32:17
so one's JT and one is BM. And if you have a BM,
32:24
goodness, good for you. You're good on. As we said, sibling
32:30
relationships are always complicated. I think anyone who generalizes and says, oh,
32:38
brothers always do this or girls always do this, I think they're wrong because
32:44
I think a lot of it has to do with the way you're raised.
32:46
Because, like you said, two boys or two siblings raised in the same
32:52
house can be totally different, except four, when you're raised in a very
33:00
strict, zealous religious family, Oh you don't have an option. I think
33:07
it's kind of a unique bond. I think. Yeah, it's more.
33:10
I mean we're like, as a military kid, you moved a lot,
33:14
so you didn't have long term friends. These boys were homeschooled, not allowed
33:21
to do sports, not allowed to participate with other children. They were literally
33:28
homeschooled until they went to high school. Oh my god, Well that's a
33:32
culture shock. So and when I say strict religious household, their dad,
33:39
Benjamin also took the kids to go out on the street and to preach to
33:45
people. So were they a Pentecostal or they were not. They were a
33:51
strict fundamentalist Christian home. But what's interesting reading their views and things. I'm
34:00
not sure that's what I'll call it, because it also mixes a little bit
34:05
with some white supremacists. Okay, so what I was about to say might
34:08
not apply so much to that part, but I feel like the whole like
34:13
where we are strict fundamentalist Christians but their views don't check out is very part
34:21
for the course. Yeah, I mean that part, but in general,
34:25
yeah, well, and they grew up in a town there in California,
34:30
Palo Cedro. It's only about seven hundred and eighty people, but it's not
34:36
far from Reading or Sacramento. But it's still a small town, especially when
34:40
it's on a farm area because they grew agriculture. Things that you have nobody
34:47
but the church and your homeschooled by your mom, and you have no other
34:55
youth that you do anything with. So I think it's important for both of
35:02
us to say that there's nothing wrong with homeschool. No, not at all,
35:07
not at all. It's if you're doing it because of I don't want
35:13
your children's shot, or you think that your kids need special accommodations, they
35:17
need a smaller class size, But when you're doing it because you want to
35:22
control their thoughts and exposure to be able to think for their self. And
35:30
it's also really important I think for child development. You know, and I'm
35:35
only speaking from the one class I took in my grad school, that you
35:39
supplement the lack of camaraderie or you know, togetherness with people your age,
35:45
you supplement that with something else. So whether it's a theater program or sports,
35:50
like I remember in school in high school, I used to play against
35:52
like like a group that was homeschooled. But they'd get together and they practice
35:57
together, and then they'd be able to play against other schools. And so
36:00
I think that's really important to supplement that you can't just keep somebody in all
36:06
it doesn't work. They did go out and stand on the street corners and
36:09
preach, and apparently they yelled. They yelled. They were there people.
36:16
They were those folks on college campuses where you were just like naph. Okay,
36:22
I guess it's like I guess I'm going to hell, but all of
36:24
everybody else is going to hell too, so it sounds like a good time.
36:29
Well, but Benjamin Matthew who sometimes went bout Matthew, somebody went sometimes
36:34
I went by Benjamin. I call him Benjamin. He even they did very
36:37
well in high school. So their mom was a retired teacher, so they
36:42
did get a good education. They were smart, well behaved. Benjamin briefly
36:47
went into the military after high school. Okay even attended the University of Idaho
36:53
for a little bit, where there he joined a charismatic church and became very
37:01
interested in purification diets. Okay, are you eating the Bible I'm confused.
37:12
It was a whole rabbit hole. I was like, I'm not this.
37:16
This sounds a lot like love has won I was I talked about I'm like,
37:21
I'm not going through it. But then he left that church and he
37:23
became interested in a church that was more white supremacy and anti Semitism groups.
37:30
Because that sounds like a great church. That sounds like a church to be
37:35
part of. I would like a VIPC. It went more with the beliefs
37:39
that you know, his parents were against homosexuals, they were against Jewish people,
37:45
so it kind of wicks out a little bit more of that. Now
37:50
Tyler was the younger when he attended college as well. Both boys wound up
37:55
moving back to California and living with their parents. Had moved out for a
38:01
while live with their parents. The interesting thing though, they stayed extremely close
38:08
to their parents. Now extremely extremely I mean grown men who decide to live
38:16
with their parents, not because of funny, just because they all wanted to
38:22
live together. See, this is the whole supplemental thing when you're not realize
38:25
there's really I mean, but that's interesting considering he went to college and such,
38:30
well, and you're gonna learn a little bit about Benjamin later. So,
38:35
but let me tell you about Gary Mattson and Winfeld malder So. They
38:39
were a couple who had been together for about fourteen years, and they lived
38:45
in Happy Valley, California. I mean, it is like the name.
38:51
I love that name. I've lived in a Happy Valleys. There are so
38:59
many movies that shouldn't be made in heavy family, That's all I'm saying.
39:02
This couple. They also they founded in the early days, an online nursery
39:07
that specialized in hot climate play its okay okay, and sold him online,
39:14
which, hey, I've got a tree in my front yard that we bought
39:16
online and they shipped it to us. Sounds so hot, so hot.
39:22
On July first, nineteen ninety nine, Gary's father tried to reach him by
39:27
phone, couldn't And what was weird? He heard a message on his son's
39:32
answering machine. Do you remember answering machines, the little thing we put the
39:37
little tapes in. Yep, I sure knew. Did you record the messages?
39:40
Was like you could call into the answering machine and check your own messages.
39:44
Yeah. But so but his dad called and he there was a male's
39:49
voice that basically said, Hey, me and Windfield aren't feeling good. We're
39:54
gonna go stay at a friends in Sacramento for a week. They covered it.
40:00
Oh, they thought about everything. So the dad was like, yeah,
40:02
okay, something's not rights. He called his other son and he said,
40:07
hey, sums up with your brother. Good check it out. His
40:12
brother went to His brother's name was Roger. Roger went to go check on
40:15
his brother. Sadly, when he got there, he was like, yes,
40:19
something's just not right. So he got into the house and he found
40:24
his brother and his brother's partner nude. And here's where it gets weird.
40:31
They had been tortured and they had multiple gunshot wounds, and they were in
40:37
bed. The police said it looked like somebody put chairs and stood up on
40:44
chairs and then just opened fire on them laying in bed, shooting down at
40:50
them from bed. And they knew that they had been tortured. But nowhere
40:59
did they give more details about the torture, which I found interesting because you
41:06
know, things were a little bit different than news back then that they do
41:08
say in the court records that there was evidence of abuse, but they never
41:14
go into it. Do you like true crime and Wine Time? Would you
41:22
like a little bit more or would you like to see us record a live
41:27
Head over to YouTube dot com slash at true Crime Wine Time, where you'll
41:31
find live recordings of our episodes. So head on over, hit the subscribe
41:37
button and the alarm button to make sure you know when we go live.
41:40
We'll see you there. Do you know what's interesting? I don't. I
41:51
don't want to take this too far away from that. What's interesting about that?
41:53
And what what? What time period was this? Nineteen ninety nine?
41:58
Nine? Nine? Okay? What's interesting is it? You know I mentioned
42:01
earlier the whole nineteen forty eight, You know, I read a newspaper article
42:09
that went into total detail on everything that they really so it's almost like and
42:16
the fascination on that was high, you know, which is interesting because we
42:21
don't usually think about before, like the thousands right were interested in true crime.
42:25
And it's almost like there was a wave where it went up and people
42:29
were fascinated and then down and then back up. So and I wondered,
42:37
that's a good thought because I wondered if it was because they were a gay
42:39
couple and it was nineteen ninety nine, it didn't get the publicity and stuff
42:45
that you would get in today's time. But what was really interesting about this
42:52
case It was solved pretty dang quick, and the way it was solved still
42:57
has me amazed. So within hours of police being there investigating at the scene,
43:06
a call went into the police department from a company in Arizona saying,
43:15
hey, somebody just called and placed a really big order of ammunition and some
43:22
other supplies. It's like twenty three hundred dollars and they wanted sent to a
43:27
private mailbox there in your town, and they wanted to go to attention this
43:32
person, which was Gary Watson, which was one of the guys more often
43:40
killed. Excuse me, but it was not Gary Watson's pio box. So
43:49
within hour, so it took police, you know a little bit of time
43:53
to get things together and they were like, h let's look into it.
43:59
Well, when they did that, they found out Benjamin and Tyler's name were
44:05
on that po box. So they decided they were going to set up a
44:10
little watch you watch, Lucky Lou for them when they went to go pick
44:15
it up. Right well, so like six days later they arrested both of
44:24
them coming out of the shopping center. Now, what was interesting Both of
44:31
the men had handguns on them, which isn't a surprise, but Benjamin was
44:37
wearing a bulletproof vest, so they were going to pick that up and then
44:45
just go and do whatever they were about to do. So they were planning
44:49
for the next one. And we're gonna learn that they had quite a list.
44:54
So Benjamin and Tyler actually knew Gary and winn Filled because both of them
45:02
had booth at the farmer's market. Oh my god, they knew each other.
45:08
Tyler and Benjamin owned a nursery, wind Filled and Gary had the online
45:15
plant store. Even some people said they thought they were friends. Let me,
45:20
okay, listen, farmer's markets supposed to be a safe place. I've
45:24
never I've never I've never thought of a farmer's market to someplace dangerous. Now,
45:29
maybe I should be on my you know, I should watch my six.
45:32
But the farmer's market should be a safe place. I know people who
45:38
sell stuff of the farmer's market. I mean they're like nature lovers, They're
45:43
like, they're like good people. They listen, they eat granola, they
45:49
do they're that's farm because I do too. I eat granola too. It's
45:53
fine. Here's where it gets kind of scary. The police search the brothers
45:59
home and they found literature from the Creative Movement formerly known as the World Church
46:07
of the Creator. The more this happens, I am cradle Catholic. The
46:15
more this happens, the more I wonder just how fine and it seems to
46:19
get be getting finer. Find the line is between religion and extremism, and
46:25
like it just you know what, people can come, come for me,
46:30
please, that's fine, It's okay. But the reality is is that the
46:35
more we hear these people speak up and the more extreme than they get,
46:37
it just seems to be they took one step to the right, a little
46:44
further over than they were. And I just that's where I'm at work.
46:47
That's where I'm That's why I'm agnostic right now. So just let me tell
46:52
you it's gonna get even crazier. And I was telling Handsome Happy about this
46:57
case because he asked me at dinner or what we were covering tonight, and
47:00
I told him and he raised some very good points. I was like,
47:02
oh, I'm gonna have to use that. So yes, double h.
47:08
So here's what's an interesting A police after they rated their home and you know,
47:13
search it I guess they didn't rate it. They had a search warrant,
47:16
but they wondered if the killing was connected to Benjamin Smith, who's an
47:22
associate of the World Church, who had just days after the murders of Gary
47:30
and Winfield, went on a shooting spree in Illinois in Indiana based on his
47:36
police so they were like, oh, is it connected. They're part of
47:39
the same group. I don't want to call them a church a group.
47:44
Could. I think they more leaned towards Colt. But when the police talked
47:51
to Tyler, Tyler goes, yeah, we've ben planning this for a couple
47:53
of weeks. It's it's like what they heard from that person drove them to
48:00
do what they did, and then that person was talking about what they were
48:02
talking about to then get them ready for what they did. Wow. All
48:07
people who go to jail should know your phone calls are recorded. So many
48:14
people don't. Okay, So I'm gonna read you the exact quote. Benjamin
48:20
was talking to his mother, whose name is Sally, and she asked Benjamin
48:27
why he killed the two homos. Her exact words, he replied, and
48:30
I quote, I had to obey God's law rather than man's law. I
48:37
didn't want to do this, I felt I was supposed to. I have
48:40
followed a higher law. I see a lot of parallels between this and a
48:45
lot of other incidents in the Old Testament. They threw our Savior in jail.
48:52
Our forefathers have been in prison, a lot prophets Christ, my brother
48:58
and I are incarcerated our work in cleansing a sick society. I just plan
49:04
to defend myself from the scriptures. First off, there's a lot of things
49:08
to talk about there. But I would like to say he's angry that they
49:13
killed Jesus, which is in the New Testament. But he's saying that he
49:16
focused on the Old Testament, which indeed, truly, yes, there are
49:22
some instances of a wrathful God, right, but in the New Testament there
49:27
is a forgiving God, which indicates the fact, just if you go by
49:31
text not belief text, that there is a transformation in God to understanding the
49:37
human plight in a way. I'm no pastor, so I'm sure somebody's gonna
49:43
call me up. If you are willing to only look at the Old Testament
49:47
and the wrathful God, but then also pay attention to the fact that they
49:52
killed quote your Savior in the New Testament, but still take care of it
49:57
with the I know that I'm just saying what you said in your quote,
50:00
but don't mean no. I think we need to man explaining. It drives
50:05
me freaking up the wall when people decide cherry pick the verses and pieces out
50:13
of context that it's like people cherry picking a verse, but then right next
50:17
to it it talks about slavery, and they won't say that part, but
50:21
they'll say the part right before that, And it's like, listen, just
50:25
like the Constitution, it doesn't necessarily apply as well anymore. I can make
50:30
it worse, say your ship, Oh God, here we go, okay,
50:34
all right, also declared to the police. So many people claim to
50:39
be Christians and complain about all the things their religion says or sin, but
50:46
they're not willing to do anything about it. They don't have the guts to
50:52
do what I did. No French's bastard. Yeah. Now, you know,
51:00
I always like to think of you know, not as an excuse,
51:04
but you know, your childhood, you know, it was raised to hate.
51:07
But what I found very interesting is during the police investigation, they of
51:14
course start talking to family friends, They're like, how is Benjamin in the
51:19
navy? He went to college? How did he not like see the real
51:22
world in all of these things? Right? But when they were talking to
51:27
one of his former fellow navy men, that navy men said, well,
51:34
we always thought Benjamin acted a little prissy, and he kind of always acted
51:40
like to other liked other men and sat really close to them. Say it
51:45
louder for the people in the back seats, and came to church slate say
51:49
it louder. But another close friends of Benjamin's said that he and Benjamin had
51:57
a romantic fringe ship and that the two would go skinny dipping and share and
52:05
talk about their love of poetry. And the reason their friendship kind of ended
52:13
was because Benjamin joined that white supremacist movement group. Their friend became a gay
52:20
rights activist. So so do you think Benjamin was trying to not just denied
52:30
that he was gay, but wins himself. I do indeed think that if
52:37
he, if it was now, he would have a pair of truck nuts
52:39
on his car. That's what that is. If this was not surrounded by
52:44
murder, I would say that's adorable, And I'm here for it, and
52:51
I would like to see that movie. However, Yeah, I think he
52:55
saw something that he liked, and I think that his childhood said no,
52:59
I need to reject that, and he decided, well, it's not good
53:02
enough for me to reject it. For myself, I need to prove right
53:07
that. Yeah, and that's why he had the guts, so to speak.
53:12
While they were in jail, they also brought up on charges for burning
53:20
three synagogue in Sacramento, and they pled guilty. Benjamin was sentenced to thirty
53:27
years, Tyler was given a twenty one year sentence for and because I also
53:32
burned down an abortion clinic. This was all like three months before the murder.
53:37
I'm gonna ask a question, yeah, and then I'm going to hug
53:40
my child because apparently he wants to hear my question. Did they plead guilty
53:45
because the evidence was so overwhelming or did they plead guilty because they were proud
53:50
of it? I think both both. I think both. I think they
53:53
wanted to own it and they wanted the glory because they then started doing in
54:00
reviews with anyone that would talk to them. Of all right, all right,
54:05
Charles Manson, I do think they wanted the notoriety of it because they
54:09
started doing interviews. However, here's a little interesting twist because you know,
54:15
they had already been sentenced thirty years and twenty one years for the other charges.
54:22
While they were in prison awaiting to go on trial for murdering Gary and
54:25
Winfield, Benjamin slashed his sphemeral artery in his neck and his arm with the
54:31
razor and died. Oh oh oh, that's after giving multiple interviews and things.
54:43
Wow. Now his attorney went on the record. So apparently Benjamin was
54:47
taken some medication because he was depressed and things. His attorney went on record
54:52
to say that Benjamin died by suicide because the prison officials stopped giving him his
55:00
antipressants all at once instead of weaning him off slowly. Oddly, sad,
55:07
also believable. Was he on something before all of this or No, he
55:15
couldn't have been. There's no way he was. It sounds like his family
55:17
would have taken collodial silver for COVID. Keep going. Sorry, Now,
55:23
there was no records of that happening, that he was under any type of
55:31
doctor's care. So I don't know what you know. I think it's just
55:36
lip service. So to speak. But Tyler did go ahead and get guilty
55:39
to the murders because he wanted the death penalty taken off the table. He
55:43
actually in two thousand and three pled guilty and he was given another twenty nine
55:47
years, So he's got a twenty one for the previous and then twenty nine
55:52
years. I think the fact that they caught them so soon, yeah,
55:58
saved a lot of people because when they did their house search, they found
56:02
a hit list with thirty two names on it that included Jewish and civic leaders
56:09
in the Sacramento, California area. That's why I think they ordered all that
56:15
ammunition. So Benjamin was wearing that bulletproof vesta plan. So I think thankfully
56:23
by them arresting them as soon as they did, they prevented something. And
56:27
I think because it was such a small town that call to the police station
56:31
got to a detective because it's a smaller if that would have come into Dallas
56:35
or to Austin wouldn't have meant anything. Okay, you're calling somebody. You
56:38
think somebody's a suspicious activity on somebody's credit card called credit card company? Why
56:43
are you calling me? I would have been covering this on active shooter instead,
56:46
that's where that would have been. It would have been a mass shooting.
56:50
I think they prevented other deaths. Yeah, And I also think the
56:53
government needs to start and maybe they do and we just don't know about it.
56:59
They need to start. I know, there's freedom of speech. They
57:01
really need to do something about hate groups. I am. People are either
57:07
going to love me or hate me, or be in the middle. I'm
57:10
a big fan of the Canadian freedom regarding this, and I don't know if
57:15
you know. We obviously have freedom of speech. Canadians have the freedom of
57:22
expression, which now what that means is, yes, you can express yourself,
57:28
but you need to be prepared for the consequences if what you say overall
57:32
or in the end. What I'm saying is you just need to be responsible
57:36
for what you say. You need to understand so you can't entice people to
57:38
go kill somebody, right. You need to know and recognize that what you
57:44
say can be always used against you. You will be held responsible if you
57:51
say something that is dangerous. We don't have that here. So there is
57:55
the freedom of speech there, but there is an accountability. There's a layer
58:02
of accountability, and I think we don't have that, and I think that
58:06
I'm not saying that if we had that, people would follow it, right,
58:08
but they would be held accountable if something happened. Right. You know
58:12
what, the Constitution was a first draft, it was a rough draft.
58:16
You know. There is this whole thing that religion calls. Again. I
58:22
was raised Catholic, I tried Methodist, I've tried everything. I even dated
58:27
somebody who was kind of Pentecostal, which was weird, but it happened because
58:31
we all go through that. I never dated a Meenecostal. Sorry, right,
58:37
I just couldn't get into the tongues thing it was. Is that a
58:39
real thing? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.
58:44
I can't talk on it because I just didn't know. I don't know enough
58:47
to know. I just like the whole point is the golden rule, and
58:52
the golden rule is love thy neighbor, or do unto others as you would
58:54
have done unto you. And I'm pretty sure that the people who kill from
59:00
God would not like to be killed themselves. Now, there might be some
59:05
that they become martyrs. Right, It's really hard to see like Bible verses
59:09
being held by people who are invading a capital. You know what I mean?
59:14
Like as I said that we need to I don't know. I just
59:16
think we need to do something that any organization that sits and says, hey,
59:22
you need to go out and get rid of all the Jews, you
59:23
need to go and get rid of all the gays. This is why religions
59:27
are finding themselves less and less populated. This is why millennials gen Z et
59:30
cetera. Are starting to be less and less involved in things like churches because
59:36
overall they are seeing they are smart enough, and they see the hypocrisy in
59:40
that we believe what is convenient. I am going to get ripped to shreds
59:45
for this, but we believe what is convenient. But when it is inconvenient,
59:50
or when it doesn't go against that small convenience that we like that we're
59:52
comfortable in that box, well then everything outside needs to be nuked because it
1:00:00
challenges what we believe. Right. It's not easy, Right, it's not
1:00:05
easy to treat others as you would be treated if they're not like you.
1:00:07
Right, I will dispose of my soapbox. Now, why can't we just
1:00:12
be kind to everyone that you don't have to be the same as everybody and
1:00:17
if we're all kind to each other, you're not hurting. So my golden
1:00:22
rule to my kids into this day. When I say so, do you
1:00:24
remember the golden rule, They're like, yes, long if it doesn't belong
1:00:29
to you, don't touch it. You can't that. You can't hit anyone
1:00:37
because it doesn't belong to you. You can't kill them. They don't belong
1:00:40
to you, you can. I mean, it covers so many things that
1:00:45
you don't own it, you can't do it. And I think I'm so
1:00:46
passionate about this concept. Number one because of the case, but number two
1:00:51
because like when COVID hit and I pulled away from the church that I was
1:00:54
at, which I was very involved. I was social media manager, I
1:00:58
was a singer, you were, I was a lot. But like when
1:01:01
I pulled away, instead of people reaching out, which a few did,
1:01:06
right, and it wasn't because of the pastor, because the pastor was amazing.
1:01:08
He was actually one of the very few people that I believed lived what
1:01:12
he preached and was very accepting of everybody, including science. Hard to believe.
1:01:16
I know when I left, instead of people reaching out to me,
1:01:20
they unfriended me. They never talked to me. They talked about me,
1:01:24
right, but never to me. And so that to me proved the fact
1:01:29
to me decision, right because although I know that doesn't speak for everybody,
1:01:32
and that doesn't speak for everybody in that church, right, it speaks about
1:01:37
the majority of people that I knew, and that was a lot of people
1:01:39
because I did sing and I didn't. Yeah. And so if you were
1:01:44
going to be part of a church and you see somebody who's struggling or somebody
1:01:47
who pulls away, don't don't alienate, don't don't push them off of your
1:01:52
island. You don't. I mean, I was raised. That's where you
1:01:55
say, Hey, here's your going through a rough time right now. If
1:02:00
you want to reach out and talk to me, I'm here. If not,
1:02:05
just know, I'll leave my door open. You don't unfriend them,
1:02:08
right, You don't have to pick up the phone and callum every day,
1:02:10
but leave the door open. Hey, if you need something, I'm here.
1:02:15
And then if somebody comes up and says, hey, why did you
1:02:19
know, I don't know. I'm just going to be here if they need
1:02:21
something. Right, And out of the fifty to eighty people that I knew
1:02:23
from that church, pretty well the pastor and maybe five others have ever done
1:02:30
that, and that speaks volumes. Your inability to speak to somebody who disagrees
1:02:35
with you speaks volumes. It shows also emotional maturity, an immaturity. Yea,
1:02:42
so well that's my case. We got into some deep I'm like,
1:02:46
that is my case. And I will say I started reading an article about
1:02:52
Tyler that just pissed me off. So I just stopped reading it. Trying
1:02:57
to apologize to the family of the men and that he was just doing God's
1:03:02
work, and I was like, it just pissed me off. The only
1:03:07
reason they killed them was because they were gay. That is the only reason.
1:03:14
He said they were nice men, they were good people, that they
1:03:19
were homosexuals, and I just I was like, that's it. I'm done
1:03:22
with you, Tyler. I hope and this God forgive me. I'm trying
1:03:28
to be kind. I hope. It's not uncomfortable when you dropped the bars.
1:03:36
I do believe in karma, good karma and bad karma, and that's
1:03:39
the only reason they killed them. Like, yeah, so angry. I
1:03:45
don't like Benjamin and Tyler Williams. I also think they were raised I don't
1:03:50
think they had a chance. In hell, no, because the way they
1:03:52
were raised, there was some chances to go out and experience. There was
1:03:59
were you know, no bubble per se permanently. However, I think I
1:04:02
think your formative years up until you're you know, fourteen, if you're in
1:04:08
that sequestered and even when they were in high school, they were taken to
1:04:12
school, picked up from school. They attended no school events, no clubs,
1:04:16
no sports, not at I don't think they had They didn't have a
1:04:20
lot of of chances. I mean, everybody can change their life. I
1:04:26
always tell my kids, you know what, you can bitch about your childhood
1:04:29
until you turn eighteen. Once you turn eighteen, your life is on you.
1:04:32
That's true. I mean until you're eighteen, bitch, blame me.
1:04:40
After that, you're on your own. Boy, did I make those choices
1:04:42
after eighteen? So yeah, that's my crazy case. Thank you for listening
1:04:48
to True Crime and Wine Time. Until next time, stay safe, watch
1:04:55
out for crime, and enjoy your wine time. Editing done by Handsome Hobby
1:05:01
and music by attic Old. All sources can be found in the notes on
1:05:05
your podcast app mm hmm