Latest / Martyr's Row / Ep. 54 - Who is Moloch??

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Ep. 54 - Who is Moloch?? · Martyr's Row

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This week on Martyrs Row. Is MLK the initials
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for Molech? Wait, was there a Molech Jr.? Is
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Molech what you do or is it who you worship?
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KJV or Geneva Bible? Which kingdom do you serve?
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Wait, do you do Molech or do you worship him?
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I don't know. Let's find out. This week on Martyrs
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Row. 3, 2, 1. St. Catherine, a noble virgin of
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Alexandria, learned in wisdom and steadfast in
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faith, lived in the days of Maxentius, when the
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persecution was grievous. Seeing the cruelty
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wrought against the Christians, she came before
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the emperor and boldly reproved his idolatry,
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confessing Christ as the true king. Astonished
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at her learning, he gathered philosophers to
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dispute with her. Yet by the Spirit of God she
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confounded them all, and many believed and were
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afterward martyred. For this she was cast into
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prison and grievously tormented, yet seized not
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to exhort those around her. At length she was
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condemned to the wheel, which being broken she
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was afterward beheaded, and so yielded up her
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spirit. Thus this wise and faithful virgin put
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to shame the wisdom of the world, and by her
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witness showed that the truth of Christ standeth
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sure against all powers of men. Anno Domini,
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305 Queen Mary I was the Catholic daughter of
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Henry VIII and Catherine of Aragon. She ruled
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England from 1553 to 1558. She reversed Protestant
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reforms, restored Roman Catholicism, and executed
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hundreds of Protestants, earning the nickname
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Bloody Mary. Many English Protestants fled during
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her reign, including scholars who settled in
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Geneva, a major Reformed Protestant center associated
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with John Calvin and later Theodore Beza. The
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Geneva Bible was produced by those English Protestant
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exiles. Its New Testament appeared in 1557, and
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the full Bible was... published in 1560, just
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three years later. The main figure was William
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Whittingham, with help traditionally associated
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with men such as Miles Coverdale, Christopher
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Goodman, Anthony Gilbey, Thomas Sampson, and
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William Cole. It used Hebrew and Greek sources,
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while also building an earlier English translation
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work, especially from William Tyndale. What made
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it revolutionary was that it was a study Bible,
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readable type, verse numbers, maps, chapter summaries,
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and extensive marginal notes. Those notes were
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strongly Reformed and Calvinistic, and sometimes
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politically sharp. They could imply that rulers
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who opposed God could be resisted. That made
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the Geneva Bible beloved by many Puritans, but
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troubling to monarchs. The Puritans were English
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Protestants who believed the Church of England
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had not been reformed enough after breaking from
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Rome. They wanted to purify it of remaining Catholic
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-style ceremonies, vestments, bishops' power,
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and weak preaching. Most Puritans stayed inside
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the Church of England and tried to reform it.
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The more radical separatists broke away entirely.
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The pilgrims were separatists. those who came
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to the New England, to the United States. King
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James I came to the English throne in 1603. At
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the Hampton Court Conference in 1604, Puritan
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concerns were discussed and a new Bible translation
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was proposed. James supported it, partly because
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he disliked the Geneva Bible's notes. The King
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James Bible was then commissioned in 1604 and
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published in 1611 for use in the Church of England.
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Its translators were instructed not to include
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the kind of doctrinal and political marginal
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notes that made the Geneva Bible controversial.
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So, the issue was not that Puritans hated the
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KJV simply because it was state -issued. The
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fuller truth is they already trusted the Geneva
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Bible, loved its reformed notes, used it in homes
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and preaching, and saw it as the Bible of the
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persecuted Protestant cause. The KJV, by contrast,
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was tied to royal authority bishops and the official
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church structure many Puritans wanted reformed.
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Fascinatingly, the Geneva Bible remained popular
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for decades after 1611. Harvard Divinity School
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notes that it was the Bible of figures such as
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Shakespeare, John Bunyan, and even Oliver Cromwell,
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and the version brought by many pilgrims and
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Puritans to America. The Geneva Bible was the
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Bible of reformed exile, household devotion,
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and Puritan conviction. authorization, church
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order, and national unity. Oh, the King James
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Bible in it. Queen Mary. Queen Mary. It's funny
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because I read Oliver Cromwell and I think of
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the witch guy. Yeah. But that's not him. That's
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Cromley? Crawley? Crawley. Yeah, that's right.
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But there was also a Cromwell, just a different
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one. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. But
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it's interesting, right? Because the idea that
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there's this, which makes sense, after the Protestant
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Reformation, you have this queen who starts just
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killing Protestants. Yeah. And she's like, forget
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you guys. I'm just going to kill you off. And
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hopefully Protestantism doesn't exist. Which
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that's worked well for everyone in the past.
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Yeah. I mean, anytime anyone has tried to crush
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Christianity, it's only gotten stronger. Yeah,
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that's true. What doesn't kill you makes you
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stronger. Which is part of why it's a podcast.
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Fair. It's kind of built there. But that's kind
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of interesting though. So like the Puritans that
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were a big part of colonizing and coming to America,
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they didn't prefer the King James Bible because
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it was the Bible of the state. When you were
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reading that, the first thing I thought of which
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was so funny is like there are Christians now
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that... die on the fact that the king james is
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the best sure and it's funny it's like well these
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other people died because they didn't like it
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yeah exactly yeah which is true of everything
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yes absolutely it's like it's new i'm not a fan
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there's a bunch of people that have died for
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both sides and they both believe they were correct
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that's true in almost every scenario yes that's
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that's true but this made me think about this
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so like I had this question and the funny thing
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is like there's not a solid answer for it. But
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I asked this question, I did some research on
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this, but realistically I thought, okay, I have
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in my possession, well, aside from my phone,
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I have physical copies of multiple translations
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of modern English Bibles. Yeah. And my thought
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was like, how many pure translations in the modern
8:13
English language actually exist? because i thought
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i don't like i i can only i can probably name
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like maybe 10 to 12 yeah which is kind of high
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it's a lot but then you got to think about things
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like Um, paraphrase Bibles, which is basically
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like the message Bible is a paraphrase. It's
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like reading the translation and then putting
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it into a, uh, more specifically common language.
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Yeah. So you're adding things to it or you think
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of like good news Bibles that was called. Yeah.
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The good news Bible would be a, um, it's more
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of a summary. I think it's a transliteration,
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which is a whole different thing as well. Um,
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so, so then. But then you also have like the
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Amplified, which is like every synonym possible
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is also written in there. They just pick their
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favorite word. They're like, throw some cinnamons.
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Cinnamons. Throw some cinnamon on it. That actually
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works. They spice it up. Let's take the Bible.
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Throw some cinnamon on it. Add a little razzle
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dazzle to it. So I was looking at that and I
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was like, all right, well, how many, like categorizing
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this, what if we break all of this down? And
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like, what would this technically give us? So
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if you ask the question, eliminating paraphrases,
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transliterations, branded additions, study additions,
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duplicate revisions, and New Testament only works,
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the count of actual. modern english bible translations
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is 42 really yes so if you go okay no transliterations
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no like nasb 2012 versus nasb 2025 like if you
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simplify all that down to a translation there's
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42 there's 42 and it's like American Standard
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Version, An American Translation, Beck's American
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Translation, Berean Standard Bible, Christian
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Standard Bible, Common English Bible, Contemporary
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English Version, Easy to Read Version, English
10:26
Standard Version, Evangelical Heritage Version,
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God's Word Translation, Good News Translation,
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International Standard Version, Jerusalem Bible.
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So you have all of these. That's incredible.
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Right? And that doesn't count all the things
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added. Wow. Yeah, so there's 42. Yeah, New King
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James Version. That's wild. New Living Translation,
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Revised English Bible. You have Tree of Life
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Version, Orthodox Study Bible, World Messianic
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Bible, World English Bible. Yeah. I would not
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have guessed that many. Well, when I first started
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doing the breakdown of it, it was like there
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are over 100. It was like, why don't you know
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a specific answer? Like, why is there not an
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exact number? And I guess if it's, yeah, if you're
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including like New Testament only or like, yeah,
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the paraphrases or anything then. Yeah. Or technically
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you could take like the example I use of the
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NASB where it has specific years where it's updated
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translations. It's like, it is the same translation.
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It's just updated. Yeah. So it's not like. I
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mean, there are going to be people. Are they
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mostly just updating the commentary? Well, so
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with the NIV, they're updating like gender roles.
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Oh, interesting. Like they wanted to take all
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of the places where it said man and neutralize
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it. Oh, interesting. So that's where you have
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to like look at translations and go, well, why
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did they update it and what did they specifically
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update? So yeah, the newest version of the NIV
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neutralizes gender. That's interesting. Yeah,
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it's problematic. It is. Because that's not what's
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in the text. No. Like now you're actually changing
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something. But you could argue that like when
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it says man, it means humanity, which includes
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females. Yes. So it's like technically you can
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neutralize in some way, but it still becomes
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problematic of built -in order. That's fair.
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I mean, that is something that I think the ESV
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has done. Yeah. Where that's why I like the joke
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that I call it the misogynist Bible. Okay. Because
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in places, especially in the New Testament, where
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it says sons and daughters, they've taken out
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daughters and just put sons. Oh, really? Yeah.
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And it's like, oh, hold on. That's funny. But
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it's probably more accurate. Maybe. Like, again,
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it could be that it's removing something that
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was added before. And that's possible. Because
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we've looked at that with, like, we've looked
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at that specifically with, like, the King James.
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Yes. Like, there was an instance that we talked
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about a few episodes back where it's like, all
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right, there's this piece of scripture that it's
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intentionally linked to this other scripture.
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Yeah. So it... It perceivingly is missing something,
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but it's meant to be read together. So in the
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King James, they just added in. Yes. Where it
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was never added in before. It was meant to be
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linked with this other thing. Yeah. So whatever
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was missing to link it, they just added it in
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the translation in that scripture passage. I
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know some people believe some of those additions.
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I think there was only three additional verses.
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Okay. I might have that number wrong. I'm not
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sure what you're talking about. I know where
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they did add a verse. Okay. Yeah, I think there's,
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like, three times where they did add a verse
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to the passage. Okay. So, like, and you'll actually
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see that in any other translation where it'll
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jump from, like, 40, 42. Oh. You're like, where'd
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verse 41 go? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they're
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only doing that to keep it consistent if you're
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reading King James Version. That makes sense.
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Because in King James, they added a 40, or they
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added one, which, you know. Yeah, which essentially
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is a commentary. Yes. It's like tying things
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together. And that's where some of the problematic
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parts came from. Cause they're like, well, some
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of those additions are tying it to other things
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that look a little political. And that's why
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some people are like, well, that's why the King
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James version is the best. Cause it does the
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work for you. And it's like, well, actually it's
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assuming things that may or may not be true.
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Yes. And sometimes it's assuming things that
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aren't actually true. Yeah. That support of specific
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reading of scripture. Yeah. And typically it's
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to make you think better of the King. Yes. Yeah.
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But the other thing that I heard you say in that
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reading, which I thought was an interesting question,
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and maybe you know the answer to this, is talked
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about the Geneva Bible and about it being a study
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Bible that added basically numbers to everything
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to break up verses. Was that the first Bible
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to do that? I don't know. Okay. Maybe that's
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our next opener. I'm curious about that. Yeah,
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when did we first get the breakout sections?
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Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. Because I'm pretty
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sure even in Hebrew translations, you have breakout
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verses. Okay. So I don't think that the English
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version was... And I'm curious, like, where that,
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yeah, started. Well, we don't actually get an
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English version until the 1500s. Yes. So, like,
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before that, it's all Latin. It's the Vulgate,
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yeah. Yeah. As far as like a full unified translation.
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Yeah. You get segments of it the same way that
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like when Jerome is commissioned to make the
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Vulgate, there's like random bits and pieces
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of letters. Translations. Yeah, that are translated
16:05
from Latin. Well, I mean, that was like one of
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the main motivations behind why they asked him
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to do it. Right. They're like, all these people
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are out there doing their own thing and it's
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not good. That's the whole reason why the Septuagint
16:16
was created too. Yes. The Greek Old Testament.
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So the same reason, because there's a bunch of
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like little books and pieces and passages that
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are translated, but not one unified thing. Yes.
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So I thought that was kind of interesting. Yeah,
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that is really interesting. Yeah, so if you're
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for the state, King James Bible is for you. If
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you're for the kingdom of God, which may be anti
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the kingdoms of the world, the Geneva Bible is
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for you. Three, two, one. There we go. Two, three.
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Static on the line, but it still comes through,
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you know. Every quiet doubt starts to echo loud.
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When we say it now. Let it take us, don't let
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it fade. If every word costs something we can't
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repay. Then let it take us, don't let it fade.
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cuts like stone. This is martyr's row. Through
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the fire in the fall we gave it all. This is
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martyr's row. Say it's soft but it cuts like
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stone. This is martyr's Night presses in on the
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hills of Canaan. Fires burn in the distance,
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low, hungry flames licking at the dark. Somewhere
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beyond the ridge, a child cries, and then doesn't.
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The ancient world knew how to make covenants
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with its gods. Not contracts on paper, but bonds
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sealed in blood. Promises paid for, not spoken
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lightly. When the rains failed, when armies gathered,
19:26
When the future hung by a thread, you gave more.
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Grain became livestock. Livestock became treasure.
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And when even that felt too small, too cheap
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for the weight of desperation, you gave what
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cost you everything. Because covenant in that
19:43
world demanded proof. And nothing proved devotion
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like surrendering what you could never replace,
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a child. The firstborn, your name carried forward,
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your future secured, your love made flesh. The
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logic was brutal but clear. If the gods hold
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life in their hands, then the only offering worthy
20:05
of them is life itself. And so, in whispered
20:09
vows and trembling resolve, people stepped into
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the fire, binding themselves to powers they hoped
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were listening. Not casually, not often. but
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when everything was on the line. This is the
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world that framed the story of Abraham. A man
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called out of the same soil, a man who understood
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covenant the way everyone did. The promises are
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proven by what you're willing to lose. Take your
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son, the voice says. Not just any son, your only
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son, the promise, your future, your laughter
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made flesh, Isaac. Offer him. No explanation,
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no negotiation, just the command. And suddenly,
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the story locks into place, because this is how
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covenant works. This is how the gods bind you.
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This is the cost at the center of the ancient
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world. So Abraham rises early, wood on the back,
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fire in his hand, a knife at his side. Step by
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step, he walks a path others had walked before
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him. toward a hill where covenant and love seem
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destined to collide. Isaac breaks the silence.
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Where is the lamb? And Abraham answers with words
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that feel almost impossible to believe. God will
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provide. At the top of the mountain, everything
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slows. The altar is built, the wood is laid,
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the sun is bound, and the knife is raised. This
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is the moment the ancient world understands.
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This is the moment that proves the covenant is
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real. This is how you secure the future. This
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is how you satisfy the divine. This is how the
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story always ends. But it doesn't. The voice
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cuts through the air. Stop. Not later, not after,
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before the blade falls. Do not lay a hand on
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the boy. And in that instant, the entire system
22:09
cracks. Because the expected ending never comes.
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Instead, there is a ram caught in the thicket,
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a substitute, a provision, and something deeper
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than a single life is overturned. In a world
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where covenants were sealed by taking life, this
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God intervenes. In a world where devotion was
22:30
measured by loss, this God provides. In a world
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that believed the divine demanded your future
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as payment, this God refuses the offering. And
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with that refusal, He says something no one expected.
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This is not how I operate. The fire still burns
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in the distance. The cries still echo in other
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valleys. The old covenants still demand their
22:54
price. But on this mountain, something has shifted.
22:57
A fracture in the logic of the world. Not humans
23:02
climbing upward through sacrifice to reach the
23:04
divine, but the first hint that the divine might
23:08
move downward instead. That maybe covenant is
23:13
not built on what you give up, but on what God
23:17
gives. And if that's true, if this God stops
23:20
the knife, provides the offering, and refuses
23:23
to be bound by the same demands, then what does
23:27
that say about all the others? The ones who never
23:31
say stop. The ones who still require the fire.
23:35
The ones who still demand your life to secure
23:39
their favor. What kind of gods are they, if they
23:43
are not like Yahweh? So Paul, who's Molech? I
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was hoping you'd ask. That was about him, right?
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That was. Or what? JK. No, so that's Yahweh.
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That's Yahweh. But it's interesting because it's...
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But it's shaped or colored by this guy, Molech.
24:18
Yeah. Weird. Some dude. Some not -so -chill dude.
24:26
Molech. If that's even how you say his name.
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That's how I say it. Maybe I feel a little more
24:35
like... Molech. Maybe we shouldn't say his name
24:40
over and over again. Uh -oh. There's power in
24:44
words. That's true. There's really no power in
24:49
the name of Molech. No, not really. We can mock
24:52
him. And I think we might see there's actually
24:54
a lot less than we even might think now. So we'll
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find out. It's an interesting journey. So the
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story of Abraham and Isaac. Yeah. How, like...
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If you know nothing about the ancient world and
25:10
you read the story of Abraham and Isaac, you
25:13
go, what? It seems very barbaric and ridiculous.
25:17
How could this God say, go sacrifice your own
25:20
son? Where did he even get that idea from? That's
25:22
insane. And even the fact that Abraham was like,
25:26
oh, okay. Yeah. Sure. And we're like, what? Wait.
25:31
God, why would you do this? And then we just
25:34
go. man i hate that that that would happen oh
25:37
well let me move on and keep reading yeah and
25:40
then just breeze through it yeah i guess just
25:42
never address the fact that like that was weird
25:45
yes like i don't know what's worse that we think
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that's like god would say that or like okay cool
25:51
so next right or the fact that abraham just goes
25:53
along with it yeah fair i mean like he brought
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up to the to the point i mean but you're even
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saying abraham yeah It's even crazier that Isaac
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goes along with it. That's true. I mean, like,
26:07
in the mornings. Do you think they, like, fought
26:10
a little bit? Well, like, okay, so in the mornings.
26:12
Yeah. I can be like, son, get your shoes on.
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We have to get in the car and go to school. And
26:19
then I go and do something. I turn around and
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he's just staring at the wall. And I'm like,
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go get your shoes on. We have to go to school.
26:26
The shoes. Yeah. And then Abraham's like. hey
26:29
isaac go get stuff to sacrifice yourself like
26:32
cool dad yeah and then just does it yeah like
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what is what is that what is this obedience that
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i've never seen before so i'm a father to a son
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well i guess if you're surrounded by a village
26:46
where people sacrifice their own children what
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um then maybe that'll teach a little bit of uh
26:53
there some obedience so so the context uh so
26:57
so in other words like this is like the general
27:00
idea of most of our discussions is yeah this
27:04
concept that like you can just read the bible
27:07
as it is and you find jesus yes which is why
27:11
it's compiled and compressed the way that it
27:15
is yeah absolutely but if you go okay but but
27:19
this story that's like kind of weird um Who was
27:24
it written to? What was familiar to them? Yeah.
27:29
What did their culture look like? Why was this,
27:33
for some reason, different than what everybody
27:35
else was doing? Yeah. Or was it the same of what
27:40
everybody else was doing? Yeah. Which one was
27:43
it? I mean, those are easy questions to ask.
27:45
They're hard to answer sometimes. But I think
27:48
we forget to even ask the question. Yeah. And
27:50
that's the big thing. I think there's so much
27:52
which... it's kind of like you said it's a main
27:54
theme what we talk about it's like no let's just
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stop and be like what right what's that yeah
28:00
stop reading like because that's the thing is
28:02
like read the bible in the year in a year or
28:04
read the bible in 30 days or something crazy
28:07
like that it's like that's good but when you
28:10
do that you have to have an overview viewpoint
28:14
or perspective of how you're reading the bible
28:16
yeah you're getting the whole story all kind
28:19
of all at once but if you would stop every time
28:23
something was weird, then you would get a whole
28:27
different experience. Yes. And you'd be stopping
28:30
constantly. Almost every verse. Yeah. Or you'd
28:33
be listening to our podcast. Yeah, that's true.
28:36
Or we stop every verse. Yes. Yeah. So then why
28:41
does Abraham not question God? And why is Isaac
28:45
seemingly cool with this? Yeah. And that's kind
28:48
of like the, it seems like the texture of, um
28:52
the broader community yeah is that okay you're
28:56
making covenant we're making a promise and it's
29:00
a big deal right and it's especially something
29:02
that is the biggest deal yeah to give something
29:05
that's the biggest deal yeah and so abraham is
29:09
given this promise from the lord yes and so it
29:12
would seem reasonable to him based on his cultural
29:15
context and knowledge of the time what he grew
29:18
up around yeah was that when There's something
29:21
big going to happen. You give something big.
29:23
Yes. Especially if a God demands it. When there's
29:27
something big going to happen. When there's something
29:31
big going to happen. We're going to do it. And
29:34
we're going to like it. But you're right. I mean
29:42
the idea of covenant. You have to give something.
29:46
Or there has to be an action of promise. Yeah.
29:50
um that if you broke covenant would cost you
29:54
something yes um yeah but oddly enough every
29:58
time abraham tries to enter into the action of
30:02
covenant with yahweh yahweh diverts him he's
30:05
like yeah just kidding here's the here's the
30:07
ram you actually don't have to do anything yeah
30:10
okay he's like all right now get a bunch of animals
30:13
make two altars cut them down the middle And
30:16
we're going to make a blood covenant together.
30:18
Just kidding. You're falling asleep. I'm going
30:20
to do it all by myself. I got it. Which I mean,
30:23
it's funny when we put it that way, but we don't
30:25
think about it that way. Sure. Because it's so
30:27
clearly just the gospel. Right. You know, it's
30:30
just like, you can't do it. Yeah, that's true.
30:34
And it's God kind of putting Abraham in his place.
30:36
It's like, this is what everybody else does,
30:39
which that's obviously what we're talking about.
30:41
Yeah. But that's not how this works with Yahweh.
30:44
Yes. So, and it is, that's like you said, that
30:49
that's part of why we see the stories in the
30:52
Bible, the way we see them. Yeah. Is because
30:54
it's not telling us that it's like, yeah, this
30:55
is what, this is what everyone else is doing.
30:57
This is what's going on. Exactly. Oh, they've
30:59
got a law. So we're going to have a law too.
31:00
Yeah. It's like, no, no, no. Theirs isn't right.
31:03
Right. This is what it is. Well, and that goes
31:05
back to like, it brings up the things that are
31:07
different or like a reversal. Yeah. In order
31:09
to tell the story of how Yahweh is different
31:11
from everything else. Yes. It goes back to the
31:15
idea of like other ancient myths or different
31:19
stories of creation, different stories of communion
31:23
with gods and going like, well, Mesopotamia had
31:29
theirs, like Eastern regions had theirs. The
31:35
Jewish people had theirs. It's like, hang on.
31:38
So all of the other ones were similar. The Jewish
31:44
tradition was a critique on the rest. Yes. It
31:47
was calling them all out. So it was uniquely
31:50
different. Yeah. And so then let's talk about
31:54
the exterior culture of what's going on around
31:57
this where Abraham seems to be okay with this
32:01
instruction or at least familiar with it. Yeah.
32:03
And so I think that's where we need to talk about
32:06
this thing. This thing. This dude, Molech. This
32:12
dude. Or I guess, are you going to get into gender?
32:17
Um, yeah, I mean, I guess in a way. Okay. That
32:21
makes me curious. Well, it's like, it's a very,
32:25
it's a kind of a complicated question. Sure.
32:28
Molech. Yeah. What is it? Who is he? Is it a
32:32
who? Molech. Who is he? What's the deal with
32:35
Molech? Who is this guy? Sacrifice children?
32:42
What? What's the deal? What's the deal, man?
32:46
Is a ram not good enough for you? I think I love
32:50
how... I don't know if this is true, but I heard
32:53
someone say that he's actually never said that
32:55
line before. Like, what's the deal? But everyone,
32:58
when you do that, they know who you're talking
33:00
about. Yeah. That's fair. I'm convinced he said
33:05
it. Well, because he's like... So Seinfeld is
33:08
like a he's a storyteller. So he's not necessarily
33:11
like set up punchline. Yeah. So it's more like
33:14
observational. What's the deal is like a setup.
33:18
Yeah. Yeah, that's true. What's the deal with
33:22
coffee? Beans that you drink. But they're not
33:27
beans. I want to eat beans, but I can't eat coffee.
33:34
You don't find me grinding up black beans and
33:36
Pintos. Pouring some water on it. Pinto beans,
33:40
dry them out. Dry them out. Dry them out. Grind
33:46
them up. Eat up some water and have some Pinto
33:49
coffee. We only serve Pinto here. No, thank you.
33:54
What am I, in the West Village of New York? In
33:58
1985? Do you have any lima? Can I get some crushed
34:05
lima? Yikes. Where were we? So, Molec. Speaking
34:11
of sacrifice, everyone who drinks that, no? Yeah,
34:13
exactly. So, Molec. So, Molec is often personified.
34:20
Okay. As a giant bronze figure with outstretched
34:24
arms, fire inside. And children being placed
34:28
inside. Of his arms? Like inside of him. Yeah.
34:32
I think because it was like the fire. Yeah. So
34:35
like thrown into his belly. Yeah. And just burned.
34:40
Yikes. Kind of scary. Yeah. But that idea isn't
34:46
original. Okay. And that's interesting. That
34:49
is interesting. So the Bible. Gives almost no
34:55
physical description. Of Molech? Of Molech. Okay.
35:00
And so, which I guess shouldn't be too surprising
35:03
because it doesn't always do that unless it's
35:05
important. Yeah. Or something weird about it.
35:09
So when the Bible talks about Molech, it focuses
35:12
on the act, which is passing the children through
35:17
fire. Okay. The location, like the Valley of
35:21
Hinnom. Okay. And the moral horror. The moral
35:26
horror. That's a pretty horrible thing. I don't
35:29
think my mic is doing anything. Oh, really? Keep
35:31
talking. I'll teach some K -pop. Okay. This is
35:35
my favorite part because Stephen can't talk back.
35:39
So, yeah, so it doesn't give us a statue description,
35:44
an appearance, or a ritual mechanic beyond fire.
35:49
And so the earliest detailed descriptions, come
35:53
centuries later from classical authors writing
35:56
about Phoenician or Carthaginian practices. And
36:03
then one key figure... Which Carthage is North
36:05
Africa. Yes. Yes, Carthage is North Africa. I
36:11
believe, yeah. And so actually one of the figures
36:15
here is... Let me see if I can say this right.
36:18
Diodorus Siculus. Diodorus Siculus. And he was
36:21
around the first century BC. First century BC.
36:24
First century BC. And so he describes a statue
36:27
of a god, often associated with Baal, where the
36:31
figure had outstretched arms. A child would be
36:34
placed on them. I guess on the arms, not in the
36:36
belly. And the child would fall into a fire pit
36:40
below. So this is the origin of the metal statue
36:45
plus fire image. But here's the catch. He's describing
36:51
Carthage, not ancient Israel. He never actually
36:55
uses the name Molech, and he's writing as an
36:58
outsider, possibly with a bias against Carthaginians.
37:02
So this may be a real practice filtered through
37:07
hostile or dramatic retelling. So are you saying
37:10
that Molech is potentially blended with a Baal
37:14
of Carthage? Possibly. Okay. Yeah. Or at least
37:19
in that case where we're looking at this image
37:21
that we have when we think of Molech. Yeah. We're
37:25
getting that image from a guy who's probably
37:27
describing something else. Oh, okay. I see what
37:31
you're saying. So we're like, oh, this is how
37:32
we envision Molech. But according to some of
37:36
the writings, it's like he's actually talking
37:37
about like a ball. Of Carthage. Of Carthage.
37:41
Yeah. And not about. Because we talked about
37:44
that on the last episode. Was it a ball Hermon?
37:47
Yeah. or haman yeah haman yeah of carthage yes
37:51
that that was very similar like the big deal
37:54
guy yeah yeah that was very similar to um molek
37:58
yes okay so molek may be a generic or a translated
38:04
name well we'll we'll walk through it a little
38:07
bit okay to you yeah because it gets a little
38:10
bit weirder than that i think okay i like this
38:13
yeah And so later readers connected these descriptions
38:16
to Baal Haman, which you talked about, and Phoenician
38:19
sacrificial practices. Yes. And so over time,
38:22
people started merging biblical Molech, Greek
38:26
accounts of Carthage, and general knowledge of
38:29
Baal worship. Okay. And the identities blurred
38:32
into one figure. Oh. So we kind of took like
38:35
all these different images and we're like, that's
38:37
Molech. Oh. So it's an amalgamation. Yeah. I
38:43
can't believe I thought of that word. At least
38:44
that's kind of what it looks, that's a good word.
38:46
I forgot about that word actually. I know. Yeah,
38:49
that's good. So it brings all these ideas together
38:50
into one thing. Yeah. It's an evolution of regional
38:54
beings all coming together to like a super being.
38:57
Yeah. That makes sense. And funny enough, guess
39:00
who we have to blame for some of that? Who? The
39:02
medievals. Of course. So the medieval and early.
39:09
Darn you medievals. It always comes back to them.
39:12
They really have to some stuff there. So the
39:16
medieval and early modern imaginations lock in
39:19
the idea with Jewish commentators and later Christian
39:22
writers, expanding on earlier ideas, filling
39:25
in visual gaps and making the horror more concrete.
39:29
Oh, but then putting a different name to it?
39:32
Yeah. And then so they kind of did all that.
39:35
And then the artists. And writers kind of just
39:37
ran with the ideas. As far as the imagery goes.
39:40
Yes. Okay. Yeah. And even like what it means
39:44
and where it comes from. Got it. A lot of that
39:46
they're kind of like, okay, cool. Let me just
39:48
do my thing with it. But Molech is a name that's
39:52
in the Bible. Yes. Yes. We do see Molech in the
39:55
Bible. And so with this real quick too, we have
40:01
one of the biggest culprits here is... John Milton's
40:05
Paradise Lost. Oh. So Milton describes Molech
40:08
as - We need to do a Paradise Lost episode. We
40:12
really do. Actually, that'd be so good. There's
40:14
a lot to talk about there. We need to do a Paradise
40:16
Lost series. It would become a series. It'd have
40:19
to. Because, I mean, that and even like Dante's
40:22
Inferno or the whole trilogy. Yeah. Because it
40:27
is one, I know we've talked about this. is like
40:30
there's a lot of modern theology that is actually
40:33
based inside of those books. Right. And not inside
40:36
of scripture. Yeah, it was like Dante's Inferno
40:40
and Paradise Lost was like educated veggie tales.
40:49
Yes. Yeah, that's exactly it. They're like, cool,
40:54
this is the basis. Now let's throw our flair
40:57
to it. Yeah. And it's actually, Giant chocolate
40:59
bunny. I love the bunny. The bunny. The bunny.
41:05
The bunny. Love the bunny. It's great. Great
41:09
stuff. That's a great episode. It's such a good
41:11
one. And so, yeah, Milton describes Moloch as
41:15
a terrifying warlike demon associated with fire
41:19
and child sacrifice and almost industrial in
41:23
his cruelty. that makes sense like yeah non -emotional
41:27
just it's it's a it's like almost like a um like
41:34
yeah what is that what i'm more am i trying to
41:37
say industrial it's like it's more about the
41:40
the process yeah the production of it yeah like
41:44
you're you come and do this and i don't feel
41:47
any way about it yeah it's like i'm just churning
41:50
this out yeah Yeah, this is just what we do.
41:52
That kind of makes sense. And then, so that's
41:55
where we get the artist depictions from that
41:57
of like the giant bronze idols. Yeah. The furnace
42:00
-like interiors. Yeah. You know, and all that
42:03
just monstrous stuff. Yeah, pretty brutal. And
42:08
so this is the version that sticks in our modern
42:11
Western imagination. Okay, right. And what's
42:14
interesting is like we said, all this is really
42:16
based in some guy who had a fun idea for a project.
42:20
What? John Milton. Oh, gotcha. I was like, the
42:25
guy who built the Moloch statue? Yeah. So it
42:28
really is like a combination of like the biblical
42:31
condemnation of it. And then we have the Greek
42:35
and Roman descriptions of the practices. And
42:39
then it's associated with Baal. Yeah. And then
42:43
we have the medieval and then modern artistic.
42:48
Okay. And reinforcement of it. So all this to
42:52
say, historically, we're not even sure what Moloch
42:57
was. Okay, that's interesting. So is Moloch a
43:00
god, a ritual, or a misunderstanding? And you're
43:03
saying like culturally historical, like extra
43:06
biblical conversations around Moloch. Yeah, and
43:10
even inside of scripture, which I want to get
43:13
into here. Yeah. When it talks about it, what
43:17
is it? It's kind of vague a little bit. Yeah.
43:19
Sure. Yeah. It's almost like Molech, I feel like,
43:23
and when we get into the scripture references,
43:26
it almost feels like Molech is a Baal. Yes. But
43:32
is still a supreme, yeah, or it's like, it is
43:38
a Baal, but it replaces Baal. It's like a...
43:44
Second generation Baal. Yeah. And it's like,
43:48
I kind of have another idea to offer forward.
43:54
Okay, go for it. That I want to walk through
43:55
here. Yeah, yeah, go. It might take us a minute
43:57
to get there to the conclusion, but I want to
43:59
walk through it with you. Let's do it. It'll
44:00
be fun. Yeah. And so in the Hebrew Bible, the
44:04
word usually translated Molech is written with
44:07
the consonants MLK. Oh, interesting. Yeah. Martin
44:12
Luther King. Yikes. That's rough. Yeah. I mean,
44:19
you want to talk about conspiracies. Yeah, that's
44:22
true. And so those same consonants are also the
44:27
root for Melech. Okay. Which means king or general
44:32
royalty language. So the question becomes, how
44:37
were the original readers supposed to vocalize
44:39
MLK? So later vowel tradition, because in the
44:44
original Hebrew, they didn't have vowels. So
44:46
later they had to add them in. Right, right,
44:48
right. Yeah, there's a lot of vowels in Molech.
44:51
Yes. Fair. Two. Yeah, fair. Which is more than
44:59
one. I guess the consonants are more like the
45:01
framework. Yeah. And the vowels are like the
45:05
drywall. Makes it a little more presentable.
45:10
It's like filling in the gaps. Yeah, true. Yeah,
45:12
yeah. That's fair. Okay. I think because I see
45:17
it spelled different ways. That's fair. Because
45:21
sometimes it's spelled with an E. I'm thinking
45:24
C -H over a K. Oh, I've seen that too. Yeah.
45:27
Yeah, it's kind of a lot of different ways because
45:30
sometimes I will see the... M -O -L -E -K. Okay.
45:36
Or M -O -L -O -K? Yeah. Or with the same things
45:41
with the C -H. Right. So it's interesting. Molech
45:43
or Moloch. And so, yeah, so like when the vowels
45:46
were added, it would have been spelled in English
45:49
M -O -L -E -K. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah,
45:53
yeah. And so this interpretation treats Molech
45:56
as a real god who is associated with child sacrifice.
46:00
Okay. So the Hebrew scribes who later added vowels
46:04
to the consonantal text. Okay. It's a crazy word.
46:08
Yes, it is. May have intentionally vocalized
46:11
MLK in a negative way. So some scholars think
46:15
the consonants MLK were combined with vowels
46:18
from Bosheth, which means shame. Oh. And so this
46:24
happens elsewhere in the Old Testament when referring
46:26
to pagan gods. Okay. So it's in a way of like
46:29
it adds. deliberate judgment and condemnation
46:32
within its own pronunciation. Got it. But that's
46:35
only going to be known to Hebrew readers. Right.
46:38
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that makes sense because
46:40
a lot of naming in the Hebrew language has parallel
46:44
meaning to it. Yeah. It's telling a greater story.
46:47
Yes. Pretty consistently. That's the idea of
46:50
like... Everything is pretty simple on the surface,
46:53
but if you go just below the surface, everything
46:56
has a layer of meaning that's not obvious to
47:00
the surface level. Yes. Yeah. So every name is
47:04
telling a story. Absolutely. Which is pretty
47:07
cool. It's pretty cool. But what's interesting
47:09
about that is since we don't know 100 % how it
47:13
was actually said then, it may have been pronounced
47:16
differently. Fair. When they actually vocalized
47:18
it. But when the scribes added vowels, it was
47:23
a way of, let's attach condemnation that the
47:25
Bible already ascribes to Molech. Yeah, yeah.
47:29
And let's just really solidify this idea. Yeah,
47:31
that makes sense. Inside its own pronunciation
47:33
and writing. Yeah. So it's kind of cool. So when
47:38
scripture speaks about Molech, it repeatedly
47:40
uses language like, pass your son or daughter
47:43
through the fire. So that phrase shows up across
47:46
multiple books, and it likely refers to actual
47:49
child sacrificial burning. That's rough. Sacrifice
47:52
by burning. A ritual so closely tied to fire
47:55
that death is implied. So either way, the Bible
47:59
treats it as real and not symbolic. Right. And
48:02
that's just worth saying for the fact like, oh,
48:04
it's all symbolism. No, it's actually like the
48:05
Bible is teaching it as, no, this really happened.
48:08
Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. So it's giving
48:12
description of what's going on with this God
48:15
and this type of pagan worship. Yeah. And so
48:19
that type of worship is actually like an insult
48:23
or profanity to God himself. Got it. So it's
48:28
in opposition to God. Yes, like in strict opposition.
48:32
Because we see in Leviticus, giving a child to
48:35
Molech is profaning God's name. It contaminates
48:39
the entire community. Yeah. So it's even one
48:41
of those without redemption. It was like, everyone's
48:44
done. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's one guy I'm waiting
48:51
to talk about. Ooh. You can throw him in whenever.
48:55
Well, it's a big deal. So Solomon would be the
48:58
guy. Oh, yeah. um solomon is in this process
49:04
of he is which is interesting so you have king
49:09
david who is the second king of israel first
49:12
king being saul david comes in takes his position
49:16
and then david um sends through uh his relationship
49:22
with basheba yeah and nathan the prophet condemns
49:27
them and then They stay married and have four
49:33
kids. They name one of the kids Nathan, which
49:37
is also kind of cool. But one of them being Solomon.
49:41
And then Solomon takes over as the third king
49:45
of Israel. And in the process of doing this,
49:48
Nathan the prophet and Bathsheba basically say,
49:55
yes, we bless this. Which is kind of a cool redemption
49:58
in that. It is cool. But Solomon gains wisdom
50:03
and is seen as the wisest man to have ever lived.
50:06
Yeah. But the way that he settled peace in Israel
50:12
was that he essentially through foreign relations,
50:16
he marries wives of kings of every nation surrounding
50:20
Israel. Yes. So when you look at a map of the
50:24
time of Solomon, every single surrounding nation,
50:28
he was intermarried with. Yes. So when it's like
50:32
he had 300 wives and 700 concubines, it's like,
50:36
wow, like he really was doing a lot of things.
50:41
And the fact is, is that it actually speaks more
50:44
to his militaristic reign and success than it
50:49
does his personal life. Yeah. Because he didn't
50:53
marry them because he loved them. No. It's like,
50:55
this is a good political arrangement. And really
50:57
the reason why we know that is because there's
51:00
only, like only one of the wives is named. Yeah.
51:04
I think Naima, Naima? Something like that. But
51:09
only one of the wives is actually named because
51:12
the heir of Solomon and that wife ends up becoming
51:19
the king of Israel after. Yeah. the byproduct
51:25
of Solomon marrying all of these wives, he allows
51:28
them to build temples to worship the gods of
51:32
their ancestors in Israel. So what ends up happening
51:36
is by the time we get to the end of Solomon,
51:38
you have Mount Moriah, which has the temple that
51:43
Solomon built, the first temple, the great temple
51:46
of Solomon, that's sitting on Mount Moriah, the
51:49
same place that... Abraham is supposed to have
51:52
sacrificed Isaac, but didn't. There's this temple
51:56
there. And then to the east is the Mount of Olives.
52:01
And the Mount of Olives is actually higher than
52:03
Mount Moriah. And by the time we get to the end
52:06
of Solomon, the Bible tells us that there is
52:10
a temple to Molech or apparently MLK. MLK. And
52:21
Ashtaroth. So you have this male and this female
52:27
deity on the top of the Mount of Olives, which
52:33
is higher than the temple he built to Yahweh.
52:36
Yeah. And ironically enough, the Mount of Olives
52:40
is where Jesus ascends into heaven and it says
52:43
that that's where he will descend to the earth.
52:47
it brings judgment upon these other gods in the
52:49
process. Yes, absolutely. But that's where you
52:54
get this bleed in of this is how close the worship
52:59
of Molech tying into the worship of Ashtaroth
53:03
being tied together and infiltrated essentially
53:07
right next to the temple to Yahweh is these temples
53:14
being built. Yeah. And then one of the first
53:18
things that Hezekiah does is he comes back around
53:23
on the other side and he brings purity to Judah
53:26
and he tears down those temples. Yes. Yeah. So
53:29
we see that there was a temple to Moloch and
53:32
Ashtaroth on the Mount of Olives set up higher
53:37
than the temple to Yahweh. Which is pretty wild.
53:40
It is wild. Yeah. And Solomon basically looks
53:43
around and goes, oh, I messed up. Yeah. Like
53:46
vanity of vanities. Like this was all nonsense.
53:49
And that's, yeah, we really should do some episodes
53:51
on Solomon. We just did a mini episode. That's
53:55
true. All right, back to the real episode. So
53:57
anyway, welcome back. Welcome back, Molech. Nice
54:00
to meet you. Yes, yes, yes. Don't get too close.
54:04
Okay. You might burn. It's a little too hot in
54:08
here. Yeah. And I guess just to... add some extra
54:12
emphasis to what you're saying here because it
54:14
is important yeah is that the law um doesn't
54:18
just say don't do this right like it says with
54:20
some other things it's like oh yeah don't murder
54:23
it's like cool got it it actually says the person
54:27
must be cut off or x or executed right and if
54:31
the community ignores it the community becomes
54:33
guilty as well So it's like, it is this massive
54:36
issue. So Moloch worship is seen as spiritually
54:40
contagious, socially destructive, and something
54:43
that, if tolerated, spreads. So it's like this
54:46
cancerous idea that just, unless it's cut off
54:49
at the head, it'll just contaminate and you're
54:54
going to be guilty in front of Yahweh because
54:56
of it. Well, and you have consistent themes pointing
54:59
to, not directly, but I guess pointing to, the
55:04
out the outworkings of those sacrificial systems
55:07
things like yeah um uh sin against the body is
55:12
greater than other sins like yeah when it comes
55:15
to like um uh sexual deviation in in worship
55:21
in things like how they worshipped astaroth and
55:25
then yeah the um looking at molek you you think
55:30
about like jesus says any person who harms one
55:33
of these little ones should have a millstone
55:35
tied around their neck and thrown into the water.
55:37
Yeah. It's like, oh. Wild. But that's a direct
55:40
commentary on like people were sacrificing their
55:43
kids. That's true. But even like, even Song of
55:49
Songs written by Solomon, there's a theme in
55:54
Song of Songs that basically says like, don't,
55:57
don't, how would I say it? It basically like,
56:03
let the flower bloom in its time. So in other
56:07
words, don't defile a child before the child
56:12
is of age and in right relationship. So it's
56:15
like speaking to - That's interesting. Things
56:18
that shouldn't be done that are part of pagan
56:21
worship. Yeah, yeah. Which is, yeah, yeah. No,
56:27
that's, yeah, that's huge. So like a lot of the
56:29
things that, a lot of the things that we read
56:31
through the Bible that are like, hey, don't do
56:33
this. Don't participate in this. This is forbidden.
56:38
Almost, I mean, almost 100 % of those things
56:41
that are like, don't do this. Yeah. Were done
56:46
as sacrifices to other gods. Yes. Like almost
56:50
all of them. Yeah. So it's not just like, it's
56:53
not just like a man shouldn't lie with another
56:55
man. It's like, No, that was actually part of
56:57
ritual sacrifice to other gods. Yes. So, like,
57:01
don't. Don't partake in that. Don't be drunk
57:04
to excess. It's like, okay, well, that's how
57:07
you worship. When you entered the temple of Dionysus,
57:11
you had to get as drunk as you could. Yes. So
57:17
that you would lose all of your inhibitions in
57:19
the process of worship to Dionysus. So. that
57:25
is like it's not don't drink beer it's like don't
57:31
use alcohol to then get yourself to this place
57:34
where you've lost all of your principles yes
57:38
and all of your biblical uh morality and are
57:43
giving yourself other over to other gods in other
57:46
practices yes or yeah it's the whole reason why
57:50
like Hard liquors are called spirits. It's like
57:53
it opens you up to things that you're not supposed
57:56
to let in. Yes. So like it doesn't mean don't
57:59
drink it. It just means don't do it in a ritual
58:01
way. Yeah. To use a biblical word, all your vigilance
58:06
is gone. But that doesn't mean like when you
58:08
drink whiskey, read the Bible. Right. But if
58:12
you're going to do anything while you're drinking
58:13
whiskey, that's probably the safest thing. I
58:15
mean, it's also a good thing to do. Fair. I mean,
58:17
it's good to do it no matter if you're drinking
58:19
or not. Oh, read the Bible. Yeah. I thought you
58:22
were saying drink a whiskey. It's also a good
58:25
thing to do, drinking whiskey. Every time I drink
58:27
whiskey, I read the Bible, and I don't read the
58:28
Bible. This episode of Martyrs Row brought to
58:30
you by whiskey. It's good for you only when you
58:34
read the Bible. But only if you read the Bible.
58:38
There's a disclaimer on the bottle. That would
58:41
be wild, like a Bible whiskey. That would be
58:45
interesting. That would cause quite an uprising.
58:47
Whiskey for your Bible reading. Which could make
58:49
it pretty popular. I don't know. The Church of
58:51
England might like it. Yeah, the Catholic Church
58:53
would love it. Yeah, fair. They're wine people.
58:57
Yeah, that's true. Yeah. We'll call it wine,
59:00
but it'll be whiskey. Is it wine or is it whiskey?
59:05
No, trust me. This is a game on Martyr's Row.
59:08
Is it wine or is it whiskey? after a while you
59:12
don't care after a while I don't care so anyway
59:16
Israel and Molech yes go on they became participants
59:22
in this oh no pretty rough And so actually what's
59:29
interesting is this practice, this worship, is
59:32
also repeatedly tied to a specific place. Okay.
59:36
Which is the Valley of Hanam, and more specifically
59:39
a site called Topheth. Yeah. So Jeremiah describes
59:43
it as a constructed high place, a site of burning
59:46
children, something that will become a place
59:49
of judgment. And so later this valley becomes
59:52
associated with fire, judgment, and what we eventually
59:55
call Gehenna. Okay. And so God even says in Jeremiah
59:59
19, 5, I did not command or decree, not did it
1:00:07
come into my mind, nor did it come into my mind.
1:00:10
I wrote that wrong. It's hard to read the Bible
1:00:14
with whiskey in your blood. That's what I'm missing.
1:00:17
Otherwise, I could read that perfectly. Whiskey
1:00:19
in the blood. That's actually kind of a cool
1:00:22
line. Yeah, it is. So, Molech worship is also
1:00:26
typically part of a wider pattern. True. Which
1:00:30
is worship of Baal, high places, foreign rituals,
1:00:34
and divination and sorcery. So, the Bible doesn't
1:00:38
spend time describing what Molech looks like
1:00:40
because it's more interested in showing you what
1:00:42
Molech does. And most importantly... Yes. Is
1:00:49
not good. Not good stuff. It's not good. And
1:00:54
so they, yeah. Well, I was just going to say
1:00:56
like, I feel like recently we've heard a lot
1:01:00
about ball worship or Molech and like elites
1:01:08
and like these higher upper level people worshiping
1:01:12
or doing bail worship or worship of Molech and
1:01:15
all this stuff. And it's like, all right there
1:01:18
are these gods that these people worship and
1:01:20
it's and it's not not true um but it's also not
1:01:25
that it's not it's not very complicated like
1:01:29
i feel like when we hear that it's like oh there's
1:01:31
all these like complicated rituals and stuff
1:01:33
like that it's it's not the only thing complicated
1:01:36
about it is the insane morality of child sacrifice
1:01:41
doing it yeah like things like um things like
1:01:44
um trafficking and then yeah the killing of innocents
1:01:51
is like these are this is like offerings to molek
1:01:56
yeah or to bail yeah and so it's like it's not
1:02:00
there's not all this extra stuff around it so
1:02:03
literally that's just what it is i mean it's
1:02:04
that simple yeah so like if you're hearing how
1:02:06
to get to that place is not right if they're
1:02:08
saying like elites are worshiping molek or doing
1:02:11
bail worship they're literally saying they're
1:02:14
sacrificing children right So that's crazy, but
1:02:19
it's not, it doesn't include, it's not like a
1:02:21
bunch of people are sitting around doing like
1:02:23
weird things around, weird chants around fire.
1:02:27
No, they're like doing weird chants around fire
1:02:31
with a baby on it. That's actually the craziest
1:02:35
part. I know. Yeah, it's not the weird chants.
1:02:38
It's like what's on the fire. Yeah. I really
1:02:41
wanted to say what's for dinner. That's problematic.
1:02:49
Manwich. Yikes. That's terrible. Is that where
1:02:52
that comes from? Believe it or not, this is not
1:02:54
sponsored by them. Martyrs Row is sponsored by
1:02:57
Manwich. What's for dinner? I don't even know
1:03:02
what that's their tagline. I don't think it is.
1:03:03
No, it's beef. Oh, that's right. Beef, it's what's
1:03:06
for dinner. That's it. Beef prices are high.
1:03:09
Shout out beef farmers. You guys are doing well
1:03:12
right now. Beet farmers? Beet farmers. I'm a
1:03:15
beet farmer. Shout out Dwight Troup. Well, so
1:03:19
now actually I want to take a minute here and
1:03:21
look outside the Bible a little bit. Okay. Because
1:03:24
we see kind of contextually inside of scripture,
1:03:27
we get kind of this kind of like proper pronoun
1:03:31
of a God personified that way. Yeah. Or talked
1:03:36
about in that way. Yeah. is not good yeah yeah
1:03:41
it's like to the point where it's like i don't
1:03:44
know it's like if you do that you should be executed
1:03:48
yes and if you're not everyone that didn't do
1:03:50
that is now responsible as well yes like okay
1:03:53
that's a pretty big deal yeah yeah um true but
1:03:57
so outside the bible um in ancient antiquity
1:04:01
there are actually no clear inscriptions of a
1:04:04
god named moloch oh interesting Fascinating,
1:04:07
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there is strong
1:04:10
evidence of child sacrifice practices. Right.
1:04:13
So the most important site is Carthage. So their
1:04:17
archaeologists uncovered what's called a tophet,
1:04:25
which is an open -air sacred precinct filled
1:04:30
with urns containing cremated remains of infants
1:04:33
and small animals. and like thousands of them.
1:04:37
Yeah, yeah. Wow. So alongside the urns are stelae,
1:04:42
inscriptions dedicating offerings to gods. And
1:04:47
so the inscriptions of Carthage and similar sites
1:04:50
often mention Baal Haman and Tanit. Oh. Pretty
1:04:57
interesting. Is Tanit Molech? Well, let's see.
1:05:01
Okay. Let's see. Okay. And they describe offerings
1:05:05
given in fulfillment of a vow, in gratitude,
1:05:08
or in petition. And some include a term related
1:05:14
to MLK. Oh, interesting. Yeah. So there's inscriptions
1:05:20
as an offering towards MLK? Well, no, because
1:05:25
they're offered to Baal Haman or Tanit. Okay.
1:05:29
But when we see inscriptions of the vows, we
1:05:34
will sometimes see the term MLK or related term
1:05:38
on those as well. Got it. Okay. But they're given
1:05:41
in offerings to different gods. Right. And not
1:05:44
given to Molech. Oh, interesting. So this is
1:05:49
where the theory I want to present comes from.
1:05:53
Do it. Molech may not be a god's name. but a
1:05:58
type of offering. Oh. Yeah. That's crazy. So
1:06:04
you're saying that the worship, the specific
1:06:07
worship to Baal Haman in Carthage was like the
1:06:13
actual ritual was called Molech. Yeah. Okay.
1:06:18
So when you were offering a child sacrificially
1:06:21
to Baal Haman, you were doing Molech. Yes. Yeah.
1:06:28
So that's kind of the theory that I'm working
1:06:31
with here. Okay. And so what's interesting is
1:06:34
because... Well, and that's like even like when
1:06:36
I say like when people are talking about elites
1:06:39
doing ball worship. Yeah. That's the phrase they
1:06:43
use. They're doing ball worship. Yeah. It's not
1:06:47
like they're worshiping Baal. Right. They're
1:06:49
doing ball worship. They're doing those practices.
1:06:51
Right. Yeah. And they're worshiping Molech. But
1:06:54
they're not worshiping Molech. they're doing
1:06:58
Molech to worship Baal. Baal Haman. Yeah. Okay.
1:07:03
Interesting. Well, that's a weird twist. It is.
1:07:06
Yeah. Yeah. So Molech is not the being, it's
1:07:08
the practice. Yeah. Okay. That's your theory
1:07:12
of why those inscriptions would be on these vessels.
1:07:18
Yes. Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Because they were
1:07:21
at... basically temples for other gods. Sure.
1:07:24
It would also explain the different spelling
1:07:26
of it too. Yeah. Like maybe Moloch, M -O -L -O
1:07:31
-C -H is like an evolution of. It might just
1:07:36
be like a, yeah, translation. Yeah. Evolution.
1:07:39
But then like Moloch, M -O -L -E -K, which would
1:07:45
be the MLK. Yeah. May link more to. like the
1:07:52
practice itself yeah and that's one i couldn't
1:07:55
find like any clear information because it was
1:07:57
all just kind of like oh it's all the same yeah
1:07:59
yeah i like this theory interesting yeah and
1:08:01
so like bringing it back to our to our boy i
1:08:04
mentioned earlier diodorus okay um so he like
1:08:09
i said he describes carthaginian practices in
1:08:12
vivid detail uh which involved children offered
1:08:15
during crisis placed into a heated structure
1:08:18
and accompanied by ritual intensity So although
1:08:22
he was writing after conflicts between Rome and
1:08:25
Carthage, and this is a suggestion, he possibly
1:08:29
was exaggerating to portray enemies as barbaric.
1:08:34
So his account could be historic or politically
1:08:38
exaggerated. That's one of those things we don't
1:08:41
know. It's just, that's what kind of puts it
1:08:45
in like a little bit. It's like, here's what
1:08:47
he wrote. Let's put a little question mark next
1:08:49
to it, though. Yeah, got it. And so we may not
1:08:53
have a statue labeled Molech. We may not have
1:08:58
a ritual manual explaining the process, but we
1:09:01
do have enough evidence to say that the ancient
1:09:04
world believed that in extreme moments, the most
1:09:07
powerful offering was human life. And maybe that's
1:09:11
why Molech haunted Israel for so long, because...
1:09:16
temptation never really disappears. In moments
1:09:19
of fear, desperation, or uncertainty, transactional
1:09:24
religion always feels safer than trust. And Molech
1:09:27
offers control and, like we talked about in the
1:09:31
beginning, Yahweh is the one who offers faith.
1:09:33
Yes. Or asks for faith. Right. So, to answer
1:09:36
the question... Or obedience. That's even, yeah.
1:09:40
Yeah. More appropriate. Which is relational.
1:09:41
Yes. Which is really, that's what it's all about,
1:09:44
is the relational side of it. Yes. And so, yeah,
1:09:48
so to kind of jump back to the beginning here
1:09:50
of like, so who is Molech? Yeah. Or what is Molech?
1:09:55
Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of why I feel like
1:09:57
a lot of these end up being like, what is Baal?
1:09:59
I know. Yeah. So we may be left with the realization
1:10:05
that Molech was not merely a who, it was a process
1:10:09
or an idea of creating a transactional covenant
1:10:11
with something outside yourself. So when people
1:10:15
were at their absolute edge, they sacrificed
1:10:18
the thing that meant the most and gave a life
1:10:20
in hopes of rescue. So the biblical story answers
1:10:24
Molech with a reversal. The nations believed
1:10:28
salvation could be purchased with the life of
1:10:30
another, but Yahweh stops the knife. He rejects
1:10:33
this bargain. And in time, the story dares to
1:10:36
make an even stronger claim that God himself
1:10:39
will become the sacrifice. Not because humanity
1:10:42
finally offered enough, but because he refused
1:10:45
to demand what Molech always did. Yeah. Yeah,
1:10:49
that's great. Yeah. So then that's the, okay.
1:10:53
So what Molech did was honor Baal. Yeah. Like
1:10:59
that was the name of the offering. Yeah, the
1:11:03
process of, or the ritual. Yeah. So the ritual
1:11:06
of worshiping Baal Haman was... to do Molech,
1:11:11
which was child sacrifice. Yeah, I mean, even
1:11:14
when we look in Leviticus, we do see - Or to
1:11:16
enter into Molech. Yeah. Which is probably a
1:11:20
- Like an extreme covenant. Yes. Because, I mean,
1:11:22
even when we see the different types of offerings
1:11:24
and sacrifices in Leviticus, it's like, oh, you've
1:11:29
got to give a wave offering, and then you've
1:11:30
got to do the blood offering, and then you've
1:11:32
got to do this and that, and it's like - That's
1:11:33
true. There's a lot of different types of offerings
1:11:35
that all have their own names and processes.
1:11:37
Yeah. From what I've seen inside of even how
1:11:42
scripture talks about it, the context that we
1:11:46
see it's written around and tying the ancient
1:11:49
world into it. Yep. It seems to be the name of
1:11:53
that type of sacrifice. That's super interesting.
1:11:56
It's fascinating, isn't it? Yeah. I didn't expect
1:11:59
to get here when I started looking into it. No,
1:12:01
yeah. Yeah. It's like this is a long way to a
1:12:04
turn. Yeah. Where it's like, oh, wait. Okay.
1:12:08
So we're in a different place now. So Molech
1:12:10
is not a being. It's a process of worshiping
1:12:14
a being. Yeah. It's the ritual of worshiping
1:12:18
Baal. Yeah. You're entering into Molech to honor
1:12:23
Baal. Yeah. Crazy. Which is wild. It is. And
1:12:27
I think it's interesting to note that in scripture,
1:12:30
Molech is talked about as like a proper pronoun.
1:12:33
Yeah. say about that is it was a way of personifying
1:12:42
how horrific this ritual was. Oh, okay. That
1:12:46
makes sense. So it's like, let's actually just
1:12:48
make it as tangible as we can. Which goes back
1:12:50
to the idea that like a name is really a descriptor
1:12:53
of what they were doing. Yeah. It's like the
1:12:56
idea of like Israel coming to mean he who wrestles
1:13:02
with God. Yes. Because Israel originally doesn't
1:13:05
mean he who wrestles with God. Right. Do you
1:13:08
know this? Wait, no, I don't actually. Wait.
1:13:10
No, this is new. So Israel comes to mean he who
1:13:14
wrestles with God. Originally, Israel, when you
1:13:19
break it up in the Hebrew, it's like princes
1:13:21
of God. Really? Yeah. It's a royalty title. But
1:13:28
it comes to mean he who wrestles with God because
1:13:31
he who wrestled with God. Yeah. Gets named Israel.
1:13:36
That's interesting. Which is similar to what
1:13:38
you're talking about. Yeah. With Molech. That's
1:13:41
fascinating. Yeah. We'll have to do a little
1:13:43
bit of an opener on that. Yeah, that'd be cool.
1:13:45
Yeah. When you said that, I was like, wait, actually,
1:13:47
I don't know what you're talking about. I thought
1:13:49
you meant that his name was changed. No. And
1:13:53
I was like, wait, that's not what you said. The
1:13:54
meaning of what Israel means in Hebrew changed.
1:14:01
That's fascinating. Because of an event. Yeah,
1:14:04
that's really interesting. But that wasn't the
1:14:06
original meaning. Yeah. That's so cool. It is.
1:14:10
That's really cool. It's like princes of God
1:14:12
or something like that. Yeah. Because Israel.
1:14:17
That makes sense. So it ends with God. Because
1:14:19
it has the L. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. That's
1:14:23
really interesting. It's like princes of God.
1:14:24
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is cool. Which would
1:14:27
then parallel to like sons of God type of thing.
1:14:30
Yeah. So it was a unique marker, but it came
1:14:34
to be known as he who wrestles with God. So Molech,
1:14:38
do you worship him or do you do it? It looks
1:14:44
like you, well, don't do it. So did they do Molech
1:14:49
or did they worship Molech? They worshiped Baal
1:14:52
by doing Molech. Three, two, one.