Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller Docu: The girl next door who ended up in Federal Prison

Transcript

Killer Thriller Docu: The girl next door who ended up in Federal Prison · Legally Brunette

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hi, you guys.
• 0:14
  Speaker 2: Welcome back to Killer Thriller docu-edition. I am Jen Fessler.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: So what happens when a teenager from Southern California finds
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: herself at the center of a major cocaine operation? For
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Denise Trigo Fleming, it eventually meant seven years in a
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: federal prison. Now in her memoir, Dealing, she looks back
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: at the choices, relationships, and losses that led her there. Denise,
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: welcome to Killer Thriller.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: Thank you. Hi.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Hi.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it. Wow.
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: What a book.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, right? The Journey.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it really is. I mean, talk about crazy stories, ups, downs.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: There's so much in it that is frightening, terrifying, so,
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: so very sad, so tragic. And then in the end,
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: I found it sort of uplifting and really about resiliency.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: First, tell me, if you.
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: Would, what Was it that sort of how did you
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: come to the point where you thought I'm going to
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: write about it? I want to put it all on
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: paper and share it.
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: I think inside prison, you know, you obviously have a
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: lot of time to reflect. So I was like, did
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: that really happen? Like that story is so important. crazy,
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: you know, and so I was kind of journaling. When
• 1:35
  Speaker 3: I got out, obviously, it's, you know, hit the ground running,
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: which I thought was, you know, the finish line wasn't
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: I learned that it was obviously the beginning to like
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: creating a whole new life. So I was obviously busy,
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: but I kept writing like little bits of stories that happened.
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: And then at some point, I was like, maybe I
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: should put it in chronological order. And maybe I should,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: you know, develop characters. And then what's the narrative arc?
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: So it really was a big process and also a
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: labor of love. I was writing from a place of,
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: you know, grief. I was writing from anger. I was
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: writing from all these different emotions that I was going through.
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: And I think that's probably why it took me forever
• 2:21
  Speaker 3: to finally come out because I really wanted to put
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: something out. that had all those elements that you mentioned before, so.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: It also had some really cool elements like 80s music, which,
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: I mean, I was born in 68. So, and there's
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: so much humor in it, I have to say. And
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: there's such a great, you know, along with sort of
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: the horror of the story, you were able to make
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: it at times so much fun to read.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: A lot of it was even listen.
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: No, no. Yeah.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: I found it, uh, really cool to hear about all that,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: you know, cool Southern California girl, and then juxtaposed against
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: going home to Staten Island, right?
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: No. Oh yeah. My, my dad's from Staten Island. My
• 3:11
  Speaker 3: mom's from Brooklyn. Brooklyn.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 3:13
  Speaker 2: And then just sort of going home to those meals
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: and then the way you, you described your home and
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: your brothers and, Stacey, there were a lot of warm
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: fuzzies in there, which actually, right? It felt kind of,
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: I don't know if fairytale is the right word for it,
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: but almost even more difficult to picture where your life
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: turned out after that. Now it's turned around again, thank God.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: But that was part of what was so fascinating. And
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I feel like throughout the book, you really touch base
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: with your family, how much you loved your mom and dad,
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: you know, and I did love that part of it
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: a lot. I thought that was so important. How does
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: your mom feel now that the book is out?
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: She's so, she's very proud of me. And she cried
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I'm like, I'm sorry, mom, you know?
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: And she was like, no, like I'm crying because I
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: found it so fascinating. She says, I'm crying. I cried
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: because I didn't realize how good your dad was to
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: you towards the end. Maybe I wouldn't have been so
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: mean to him.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: And I was like, Oh my gosh. Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: So yeah, there's certain things that you describe, like when
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I guess you were taken away after you were sentenced and, and,
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: I forgot what your dad said to you, but it
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: was something really, really touching. And he called you that number.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: What was it, Charles?
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry.
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, it's fine. 41. 41. 41. Yeah. Yeah.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: All that stuff that I'm sure, I don't know, I
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: kind of felt for him, too. You know, he just
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: seemed such a special, loving man. And not a perfect father,
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: but I don't know a perfect father.
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: And I think that's why I wrote the book. I mean,
• 4:54
  Speaker 3: I was very heavy, like you said, on nostalgia.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 4:57
  Speaker 3: Of going back in time with music and fashion and
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: the color of it and just how we were raised.
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was, I'm born 67. So, you know,
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: we were that latchkey kid, you know, we had all
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: those great moments as kids on our bicycles and all that.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: And then, you know, the eighties rolled around and some
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: parents kind of checked in and some were kind of
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: checked out a little bit living their lives. Cause that's
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: what their norm was. So, I think the story is
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: just really about me taking responsibility for my own actions.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: You can't blame your dad. You can't blame your mom
• 5:31
  Speaker 3: or your brothers. It was just my surroundings in Orange County.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I was going to talk about how you sort of
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: got a glimpse of the drug world through your brother, Jeff.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: And, you know, when you first.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Sort of saw and understood what he was doing and
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: you're 16, do you feel like you admired it more,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: feared it more?
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Did it piss you off more?
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: I think it was more of somebody I looked up to.
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: He was my best friend. Like, was it a little scary?
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: And then like, yes, but then I saw, you know,
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: all the toys that came with it. So you're almost like, wow,
• 6:10
  Speaker 3: he's really good at this. And he's got this big,
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: you know, cherry red Porsche and it's, you know, everyone's
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: looking at us and we look cool and we're getting
• 6:18
  Speaker 3: attention and you're young, you know, you're not really, really
• 6:20
  Speaker 3: thinking straight. So.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And then the diamond necklace of it all.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I guess, you know, you're 16 years old. You, you, you,
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: your brother, you know, gives you a diamond necklace. Well,
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: isn't he the best thing since sliced bread, the coolest
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: of all.
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, how do you even, you know, say that?
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: I think I remember he was sort of buying your
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: silence with it. Right.
• 6:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I think he was just giving it
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: to me, but for me, it was like, that's how
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: I envision it of just kind of like, well, there
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: are perks, you know? Yeah.
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I'm picturing also a teenager dealing with these
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: enormous sums of money. Right. I'm trying to remember when
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: you were living with rich in the neighborhood, how old
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: were you then?
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, uh, like 18, 19. Yeah.
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, reading about that and, and I, I'm,
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I was never presented with an opportunity. I hope I
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: wouldn't have taken it, but to live that kind of
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: life as a teenager, but how, how dangerous, I don't know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: You say that, yes, you're.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: Responsible and ultimately you made your own decisions, but you
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: were a kid and you were living a life that
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I'm sure kids all around you were in awe of, right.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: And family and having the most, and it was all so,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: so glamorous. Do you look back at all on any
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: of that time with fondness?
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: I mean, now that I look back on it, and
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: I think it's one of the reasons why I wrote
• 7:51
  Speaker 3: the book also is how quickly it changes for me
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: when I was, you know, driving around with Rich and
• 7:58
  Speaker 3: I was meeting, you know, Colombian drug lords and Peruvian
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: and all these people, they were just people to me,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: you know, they spoke a different language, they had a
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: little bit of a different lifestyle, but they were friendly.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: They were you know, it just, it didn't seem like
• 8:13
  Speaker 3: a really scary situation, you know, looking back, it's like, Oh,
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: holy shit. You know? But I mean, even now, like
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: even when it went in my book, when it went
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: crazy at the end, these people were, you know, there
• 8:26
  Speaker 3: were surfer guys or by the beach and like, they
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: were all friendly. Like they didn't look scary on paper.
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: It just, it escalates. And then all of a sudden
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: it's like blows up in your face. So.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Um, I remember you had the meal with the big
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: wigs and their wives. And I'm picturing sort of like, well,
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: drug lords and their wives. And you described them almost
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: with admiration at the time, right? Looking at them and
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: feeling like they were smart.
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: They were savvy. They knew what their place was in
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: the operation and how you felt such admiration for that
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: and how you aspired to be not just.
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: I guess a girl, I think you even said that
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: at one point, but you were a boss, right? You
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: wanted to be a boss bitch, which you, I guess it's,
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: I guess, I guess.
• 9:20
  Speaker 3: You were, I guess whatever you put your mind to,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you can.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess, well, look at you now. So
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: that's true.
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it came from just my roots
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: of Staten Island and, and, and Brooklyn and just kind
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: of like growing up with that whole mindset of, of
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: watching the drug movies and just, I don't know. And
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: I grew up with that sense of loyalty means everything,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: you know, and it's true. So I looked at these
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: women like they really do have their man's back, you know,
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: and I admire that. So that's kind of.
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: Listen, you went to visit Rich every single weekend, even
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: when it sounds like you weren't sure you were still
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: in love with him and still.
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Like joining in the escapades. Just, it seemed like
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: to me out of, out of loyalty in the end.
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: I don't know. You can say that.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Obviously the choices you made were not just choices you
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: made out of loyalty, but it feels like maybe a
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: lot of them were, you know, you had so many opportunities. So,
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm reading the book and I'm thinking, well,
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: I knew that. what was going to happen, but I'm
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: reading the book. And if I didn't know how you
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: were going to end up, I was like, oh, good.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: This is it. This is when, you know, she gets out.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: This is when, right, exactly.
• 10:31
  Speaker 3: Smart, she wakes up. Yeah, exactly.
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: This is when all of that starts. And there was
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: a lot of those, you know, right?
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Like, what do you think was one of the main
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: factors in terms of it getting, always getting sucked back in?
• 10:48
  Speaker 3: Love, loyalty, all do it, not putting yourself first, not
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: loving yourself first, caring about other people more. I don't
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: want you to get in trouble. I'll do it. I
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: don't care.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: I can handle it. That's so interesting, right?
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: 100%, yeah.
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: Like what a sad, what a, I mean, I guess
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: admirable on some level, but so sad that you would.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that I look like, yeah, of course, 100%. Yes. Yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But I think, you know, at the end I was
• 11:14
  Speaker 3: out in my mind, I was out. Like I, I
• 11:16
  Speaker 3: was just trying to, again, care for other people. Let
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: me tell him what's happening. I don't want him to
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: get hurt. Let me, you know, get away from this
• 11:25
  Speaker 3: and then boom, you know? So.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, Denise, the times though, of you, your head
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: being slammed into the pavement and the cups of it
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: all and the guns of it all. And, And that
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: was like the beginning. I feel like it just kept going.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: Are you sometimes just amazed that you're still here with us?
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know what? I was so morbid. I'm just, no, no, no.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: I think it was a way of life for me.
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: So that was my normal. I know that sounds really weird,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: but like, Oh, it doesn't.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: I mean, the hat would have had to have.
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Been, I guess.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess. Right. So, yeah.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's like loyalty just won out over fear.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe you weren't as afraid.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: We have to talk about one of the most pivotal
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: parts of your life and in the book is obviously
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: when Stacey dies. And I mean, your friendship was so magical.
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm trying to think of a friend that
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: I had, and I was not that young when I made,
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: you know, a friend for life.
• 12:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: A friend who lived with me.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: A friend who, when I met her, it just, like,
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: we connected like that so magically, right? And I am, well,
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: first of all, I'm so sorry, because it still must just.
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: It seems like from the book, it was the kind
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: of friendship, like, you'll never forget her.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: But is there anything you didn't say in the book?
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Anything in terms of?
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: You'd want to share with us about Stacy, about when
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: you look back at it, about between the lifeguard stands,
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: you know, what was so magical there?
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: I think that, you know, I, I, now I'll be like, oh,
• 13:07
  Speaker 3: this is my, people will introduce me. Oh, this is
• 13:09
  Speaker 3: my best friend from college and this and that. And
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: I'm like, that sucks. Cool. Nice to meet you.
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: I guess like what you said is what I hold
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: on to is that we did have a magical friendship
• 13:19
  Speaker 3: and not everybody does, you know? So I had my time,
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: it peaked earlier and, But it taught me of what
• 13:26
  Speaker 3: a real friendship should be.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: Do you have a friend like that now?
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: I do. I have a lot of friends. I feel
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: like I'm surrounded and I'm very loved by a lot
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: of my friends. I don't feel like I have that
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: one main person, but that's my kids. So I'm happy
• 13:42
  Speaker 3: about that. So it would be my daughter.
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it could be me. I'm available. I find
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: you very, very fascinating and inspirational.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So I know you have, you were about having a
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: lot of guilt after not answering Stacy's call.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: Do you still feel that?
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: Uh, yeah, I do. Yeah.
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm here to tell you it was not your fault.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: That's awful. I'm sorry. You would still carry that. I mean,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: do you think it would have changed anything?
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: I don't, can I?
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: Okay. Moving on.
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: Okay.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: So, you know, after she died, you did try to
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: really build a life through fashion, nightlifes, uh, new relationships. And, uh,
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: what was it that you think really pulled you back
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: into that life that you were trying?
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I didn't mean to make, I mean.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: It's, you know, it's very, it's very poignant that you're,
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: you still are so emotional.
• 14:50
  Speaker 3: Well, I cry about everything too. I'm like the worst. Yeah. Not,
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: not so much of a badass. I'm like such a
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: cry baby, which is so weird.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: It's funny just talking to you now. It's hard for
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: me to even now picture. I mean, even reading it,
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: it was hard to picture, you know, the way that
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: you were so good about describing your life, what happened
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: to you. But, you know, even watching you now, say what?
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: Seven years in prison. I mean, I mean, there's a
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: Heidi Fleiss of it all. I want to know about
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: that much time. But like you've just had so many
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: things that even the movie stars you would party with.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah. It's a great, crazy life for sure.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm naming those.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: And a lot of fun. And a lot of fun.
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: I will say I had a lot of fun, you know?
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: Really?
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I did. Absolutely.
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: And that's why I kept going.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: Like at the end of the day, like I was,
• 15:44
  Speaker 3: I was, it was fun. Growing up in Orange County,
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Newport Beach, you know, on the harbor and all the
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: clubs and just like the whole, the whole lifestyle. Like
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: I've had a really good life except, you know, the
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: tail end part.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that you describe it like that. There
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: was a part of the book where you described freebasing
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: with God, what was her name? That beach house.
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: Yes. Sorry. It's the 58 year old.
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: So I've never free based, but the way that you
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: described it was good girl.
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Listen, I'm not have our skeletons. So, but it
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: made it, sounds so sexy, intriguing. And I'm going to
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: ask you this, maybe it's not a great question, but
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: do you ever miss just the drugs of it all?
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: No, not really. I think I've done enough in my life,
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: so I'm good. And I don't trust drugs now. I
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: always say, listen, when I was involved in the drugs,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: I didn't seek killings and I didn't like you know
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: in the 80s I didn't see people ODing like it
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: was like yeah right fun and dancing and they're wearing
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: sequins and you know music's playing on the dance floor
• 17:04
  Speaker 3: and it was just glorified at that time so I
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: think and I hate to glorify drugs because nowadays in
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: which I'm writing in the book obviously through my journey
• 17:13
  Speaker 3: is the drugs changed it got uglier and Like, you know,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: people are ODing people. And that's what I came to
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: face of when I was in that, you know, in
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: that prison in Hawaii. I saw like, oh, wow, these
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: are drug addicts because the drug addicts I knew they
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: were beautiful and they were having fun. And this is
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: a whole other side of it that I was not
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: involved in because I wasn't selling nickels and dimes and
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: I didn't see the addict. I was selling bulk, you know,
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: as a different level.
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're a cool drug dealer. Yeah.
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I don't mean that, but I mean, I, I'm trying
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: to like, I, I do understand absolutely saying, I don't know.
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: How are you, do you stay off drugs now? And
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: I don't look just in terms of, do you go
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: to a program? Are you, I know you're involved in helping, um,
• 17:59
  Speaker 2: in terms of you go back to the prisons, right?
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: And you are helping in rehabilitation. You do a lot
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: of charity work, it sounds like, and you're busy and
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: you have these two kids.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: I actually am a producer on a podcast with Hunter
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: Biden with the Peak Path Health.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Get out!
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: Oh my God, you just get cooler and cooler.
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, thanks. That's so amazing.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: I just saw him on Bill Maher.
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Oh, he's so great.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: He was great. Yeah, he really was. He was great.
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: Wonderful. So, I mean, what was that?
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: How did you meet Hunter Biden?
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: Um, my, my husband reps him.
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: Ah, yeah.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah. So he's such a great guy. He's such a
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: great guy. So, yeah, I mean, I, I, I talk
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: about addiction to people and try to help them and
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: I go inside prisons and, you know, talk to the
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: people who are locked up and try to mentor them,
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: you know, when they get out even, uh, cause it's
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: not easy, you know?
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: So, um, I want to talk about, you know, you've
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: ultimately decided to cooperate and you.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Saved yourself a lot of years.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: But I am wondering just were you ever scared of
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: the repercussions of that, of just like once you got out?
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I'm coming from movies about
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: this shit, you know?
• 19:17
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, at the time. I was facing a
• 19:21
  Speaker 3: lot of years. I had a lot of people.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: What was it? 14 or how many more?
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: 15 to 18 plus the 10 for conspiracy. And I
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: had so many people testifying against me that I just
• 19:34
  Speaker 3: had to like say, okay, listen, I'm not going to
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: win this trial. And I just had to, you know, face,
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: face my responsibility and my involvement and just, you know, so, okay,
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: I have to take responsibility for my actions. So.
• 19:51
  Speaker 2: What do you think was, you talk about prison, none
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: of it seems easy or fun, but what do you
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: think was the hardest part of it? If you had to,
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: you know, sort of narrow it down to something that was.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say obviously being away from my family
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: and missing their lives and missing you know, moments in
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: their lives that were special and important. And, but I
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: think for me as myself, like when I first came in,
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: it was really hard for me to like, Am I
• 20:22
  Speaker 3: going to do my whole time with a mindset of
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: inside prison? At first, I was always worried about, oh,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: what's Jeff doing? What's Greg doing? What's this? Who's dating who?
• 20:32
  Speaker 3: And I had no business even thinking about the outside
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: because that's doing hard time. But if you completely forget
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: about the outside and you're just in this prison bubble,
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: then you change completely.
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: You say that prisoners, do you, is that, that seems
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: like very sound advice.
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: I don't want to ever have anybody need to give
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: me that advice, but it's like what you just said
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: seems key, right? Like to think about the outside world
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: is what makes it unbearable.
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: It makes it unbearable, but if you can't lose who
• 21:03
  Speaker 3: you're from and you can't lose sight of who you
• 21:06
  Speaker 3: are or else you're just going to come out completely
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: different and not in a good way.
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: So.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was kind of my battle. And listen, I
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: give it to God. I always say, I read the Bible.
• 21:17
  Speaker 3: I give it all to him because he's the one
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: who gave me strength to get through. It wasn't my strength.
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: It was his strength.
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: But you were certainly strong. You were hustling even in prison.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, makeup.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, yes.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think you were ever lazy. Lazy
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: was not. I mean, you were always sort of a
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: go-getter of sorts, right?
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: Yes. Even in the pokey, you were like, you were busy. Yeah.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I think probably did help. I mean, I don't know.
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: You ever seen like someone who gave up no matter what,
• 21:52
  Speaker 2: even from the beginning of it, of your story until
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: the end of your story, you know, all your relationships
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: and your loyalty. And even though I feel like you
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: did trade in your sense of self, you know, for loyalty,
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: but I don't know. I feel like you were a
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: young girl who still had a lot of, dare I say,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: self-esteem or, you know.
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: You were good, like until you weren't.
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Like in prison, like you were
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: a very strong woman.
• 22:23
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you have to be, you know,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: you're thrown into a situation and it's either sink or swim,
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: you know, and I think it was that pivotal moment
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: when I was in Oakland and I had the opportunity
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: to look at life in one way of, you know,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: could have, should have, would have, and then there's people
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: who have it worse. And once you're able to, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: I take that with me now, even right now, you know, uh,
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I think that's good for everybody to, to always, cause everyone,
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: especially in LA, we always compare ourselves to bigger and better.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: And you still do that.
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, constantly, yes.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: You do?
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes. But I put myself into check like that.
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's true. My shrink says that. Like,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: that's just human nature. The trick is to notice it, right? Yeah.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: The trick is to, I don't know, notice it and
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: be able to sort of put yourself in check as
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: you just.
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: I'm grateful for everything. I'm grateful for, you know... like,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: do I want to have more or go shopping more?
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: And you know what I mean? Or do this and
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: do that? Like, I don't need it. I don't need
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: all that stuff. I didn't, I survived in prison off
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: of like, you know, three shirts and two pants. And like,
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: I don't need all these bags and like, what's happening,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: I mean, dude, you have like Charlie Sheen writing you, like,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: you know, recommending your book. You've got, wait, I have
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: like all this list of all these big shot superstars
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: that are obsessed with the book.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: I don't know where did I put it?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: It was Charlie.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: She obviously was Heidi Fleiss. It was Jenny Garth. It
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: was Mario Lopez, Victoria.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you, all of that. I mean,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: who cares about bags? You wrote this book and it's like, yeah. Oh, awesome.
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: And my guess is that my I'm betting on, it's
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: going to take off. And who's going to play you
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: in the movie?
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. I have no idea.
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: You never thought about it?
• 24:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, for a while now, but so much time
• 24:18
  Speaker 3: has changed. They're probably older now. So I have no idea. Yeah.
• 24:21
  Speaker 3: I'm really open to anybody who's, you know, who's ready
• 24:26
  Speaker 3: to take on a big role and have some fun.
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: It is. It's a very big role. My God. Tell
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: me about your life now and, and what does it
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: look like? And is it quiet?
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Is it, I know you're doing, you do a lot
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: and you just wrote a major book and all of that,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: but like on a day to day, what is it like?
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: I mean, I have two kids who are, you know,
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: my forefront of everything. They're both in universities now.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: I have one in Madrid right now. They must be
• 25:06
  Speaker 3: very bright. Yes, they are. They're very smart. And my
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: son's in Boston. He just did a year in London.
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I literally just dropped them off. So
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: I'm like empty nester, my husband and I. So I've
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: been busy with launching the book. I have a supplement company.
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: Love Me Nutrition.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: You know, I work on different projects producing. I have
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: a lot going on. I have a producing partner that
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: I'm working with and I'm working on different documentaries. So
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: I'm always working on something for sure. So I keep
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: that hustle mentality, I think.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: No doubt.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So in terms of your kids, were you a helicopter mom?
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: Do you feel like you were always more nervous because
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: of what you've been through?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: I think I'm the cool mom until they realize I'm not.
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: So I'm cool and I feel like I'm friends with
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: all of their friends. You know, they travel with us.
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: We bring them to Europe with us. And we just
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: like we have like they're really, truly my best friends.
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: Like I love hanging out with them. But then when
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: they do shit or if I see something, I'll be like, no,
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: that's not cool. And they're like, what do you mean?
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: Like you did. No, no, no. You're the better version
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: of me. And that's just not going to happen. So
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: then I become super uncool.
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: How old were they when you told them and sort
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: of described what your life had been like?
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: Oh, they knew from the very beginning. They're so sweet.
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: Like they knew from elementary school because I've been working
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: on this book for a while.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: And they're like, what are you writing?
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: Oh, my life. And yeah. So they've always been very supportive. Yeah.
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No doubt.
• 26:42
  Speaker 3: No doubt.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I'm just, you know, I'm picturing myself with my kids
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: in there.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: I have a 24 and a 26 year old. And,
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's supposed to get easier.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: I have found that now that they are also, I'm
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: an empty nester, although they seem to always be home,
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: but whatever. But like they, I don't know, it's just
• 27:03
  Speaker 2: a scary world out there, you know? And I haven't
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: been through what you've been through, but as a mom,
• 27:09
  Speaker 2: it doesn't sound like you're like me.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like you're neurotic. Maybe.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: I mean, I have them on life 360 and I'm like,
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: where are they? And you know what I mean? I'm like,
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: Thank God. I wish my mom and dad had me
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: on that when I was younger.
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: That was going to be my next question. And again,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: you made it very clear in your book how much
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: you love and loved and love your parents and that
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: they were wonderful and loving. So this is not a slight,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: but I know you did mention also there were times
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: that you wish your mom was stricter.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: You wish your dad was more tuned in, right? And
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: it seems like you were always so loving and with them.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: I mean, did you ever have those discussions with them? No.
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: I mean, after what I put them through, I think
• 27:51
  Speaker 3: we're even right.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So fair enough.
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: I wonder what made them like that.
• 27:58
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm thinking about your mom.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: Really nice and naive, super naive. And she trusted me.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: I gave her nothing to think otherwise honest. I mean,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: other than like, yeah, I am dating a drug dealer.
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: Like why you could do better. Like, No offense to Rich,
• 28:13
  Speaker 3: but even my brother, you know, so she loved my
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: brother and she had no judgment on him. So when
• 28:19
  Speaker 3: she meets another person and she knows him and he's
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: nice and he's, you know, generous and he knows how
• 28:26
  Speaker 3: to speak.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: And talk, you know, it's not.
• 28:29
  Speaker 3: Like some gangbanger walking in and it's like, woo, red flag,
• 28:32
  Speaker 3: you know?
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: It's like this naivete. Yeah, I get it. Nice. And yeah, yeah.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And I want to ask, Before I have my next question,
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: I want to ask you, how is she doing? I mean,
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: I especially think of Jeff.
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: How's my mom doing?
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: She's good.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: She's good.
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Oh, I'm so glad.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Yeah, she's really good. I mean, she lives alone in
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: Orange County, so I have to go down there and
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: take care of her and things like that. So, yeah. Yeah,
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: but she's good. Yeah.
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought it was really cool the way, like
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: the music that you wove through, but also the food thing, right? Oh,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: You noticed all that.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: I'm so happy.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: I mean, you know, that's what makes a good book.
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: I feel like, like, it's just, it's, it's also sensory,
• 29:19
  Speaker 2: you know, and even the way you described a lot of,
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: of the cooking and the food. And I feel like
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: that for you, those smells, right? Garlic was so much
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: part of like home and your nostalgia, right?
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. And I try to do that here. Everybody,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: like I said, my kids, all their friends, they all
• 29:38
  Speaker 3: come over for dinner and things like that. So I
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: like to keep the tradition going.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I love that. I'm wondering with your husband, obviously you
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: are high.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Yes. Like I was spent seven years in prison and
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: I was a drug dealer and how did, was that
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: a hard pill for him to swallow at the beginning?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: Obviously you're worth it. So no, it wasn't.
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: No, I mean, he knew before I even met him,
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: we were at a big party in Hollywood Hills and
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: he heard, oh, hey, that's Heidi Fleiss's roommate from prison.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: So I didn't have to say anything. So he really
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: like was coming to me, like wanting to date me
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: and wanting, and I lived in Orange County at the
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: time I was on probation. And I was like, I
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: don't really go out on dates. Like I don't want
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: to like sit there and, you know, like a resume,
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: like I'm going for a job and answer all these questions.
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: Like if I feel comfortable with you and you're like,
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: you know, and you're like my friend and I like
• 30:37
  Speaker 3: you and there's chemistry, then we'll date. And so he
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: really like, I mean, he was working, he was a manager,
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: entertainment manager. And so he would drive down after a
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: hard day's long work, you know, and to Orange County
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: and take me out to dinner and, we became really
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: good friends and obviously, you know, had chemistry. So it
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: ended up working out. So.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I know you talked about PTSD, but briefly, I feel like,
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: how is that?
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: Do you still feel like you have it? I mean,
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: it was a long time ago now, but deep nightmare. No.
• 31:07
  Speaker 3: I mean, I did.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: I had a lot of dreams, a lot of dreams.
• 31:10
  Speaker 3: And I still do every once in a while. I'll
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: be in prison in my dreams. It's so funny. I
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: talked to, I mean, I was texting Jenny Garth and
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh my God, you were in jail
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: with me. And she's like, we would have had a
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: lot of fun. But yeah, I mean, there's just like,
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: sometimes I'm back in there, you know, and I, and
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: I'm always like trying to put, which is like so nostalgic.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: I'm trying to put a quarter in a pay phone. Right.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: And I either don't remember the number.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: Or it's just not working.
• 31:41
  Speaker 3: I'll have that. But I think now the only thing
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: that's really weird about me is that I do get
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: claustrophobic now, which is like a weird thing that just happened. Interesting.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the book. I wish you all the
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: best and tremendous success with it.
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much. Yeah, I was scared putting it
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: out there. I was like, I don't know, am I
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: going to get canceled, rearrested? Like what's happening? No way.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: No way.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I predict you're going to be a very busy woman.
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: Thank you.
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I'm sure you are already, but even more busy. So
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: thank you. Thank you really for joining us.
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.