Latest / Project Podcast / National Trust, part 2: Managing urban and net-zero programmes

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National Trust, part 2: Managing urban and net-zero programmes · Project Podcast

0:02
Quite close together when we're walking.
0:10
Welcome to Episode 2 in our three-part series on APM
0:13
corporate partner the National Trust, where we're finding out
0:17
about how the charity has brought project management close
0:20
to its organisational heart. I'm Emma De Vita and I'm your
0:23
host. In episode one, I went behind
0:26
the scenes at Historic House Durham Park to speak to Mike
0:29
Hudson, Head of Strategic Planning, Projects and Programme
0:32
Management, who told me all about the professionalisation of
0:35
project management at the charity.
0:38
I also got to hear from Senior Project manager Tim Camborne
0:41
about how he led the recent multimillion # transformation
0:45
programme at Deer and Park. If you didn't catch it, listen
0:48
to it now. In this episode I'm finding out
0:51
about two different sites, the National Trust's work, it's
0:54
urban programmes, particularly in London where I visited a new
0:57
community garden. And secondly, it's work in
1:00
renewables as it focuses towards its aim of becoming carbon net
1:03
zero by 20-30. But first, let's meet Joe
1:07
Dimitri, a senior Programme manager for the National Trust
1:10
London programme. He started her career in event
1:13
management before switching to project management.
1:16
She began her urban work in Birmingham on the Roundhouse
1:19
projects and is now leading a team of nine project
1:21
professionals as part of the strategy work the National Trust
1:25
is doing in London to connect green spaces and increase its
1:29
presence in the capital city. Could you tell us a bit about
1:34
the programme itself? So what the scope is, what the
1:37
what you hope to achieve and the time frame.
1:41
The London programme it we're collaborating on projects in six
1:45
out of London's 33 boroughs. We've got a range of different
1:50
types of projects and interventions that we're working
1:52
on. So to really help address
1:54
unequal access to nature, beauty and history.
1:57
And that ranges from a community garden in East Dagenham where
2:03
we're providing access for people in that area to I I guess
2:08
in the grand scheme of London, a relatively small space.
2:10
But for lots of people in that area it might be the their their
2:14
only sort of access to our outdoor space on their doorstep.
2:17
So we know that over half the people that are coming to
2:21
Stonyford Community Garden and don't have their own private
2:24
green space. And then our other projects that
2:27
sort of go right through to looking at how you connect up
2:31
green and blue space across several London boroughs.
2:34
So working in the Wandle on a green corridor across
2:38
Wandsworth, Merton, Sutton and into Croydon.
2:41
So you've got the the Wanderer River corridor.
2:44
So looking at the communities, the access the communities
2:47
across that river corridor have to to green and blue space and
2:51
thinking about how to connect that up and and create more and
2:54
better access to nature across those boroughs.
2:58
And looking at so in Lewisham, we're also looking at again in
3:02
an award level within that borough, what the opportunities
3:05
are to create more, more green space and better green space on
3:09
the doorsteps where people live. How will success be measured for
3:14
all of these projects and for the programme?
3:16
A programme level, we're really looking at increasing the amount
3:22
of people accessing green space. So we know that there is a real
3:27
correlation between green deficit in cities and that
3:32
disproportionately affects people from global majority
3:36
communities and people from more disadvantaged areas of the city.
3:41
So we're really wanting to ensure that when we when we're
3:45
working in the areas we're working where there there is a
3:51
where where we can have impact, but also measuring the increase
3:55
in in the amount of good quality green space in the city.
3:59
So again looking at where there are there is a green deficit
4:02
area and and how to how to increase the amount, the quality
4:06
and also sort of what's going on in that space as well.
4:10
So also looking at what we can do in those spaces to make them
4:14
feel safer, to make them feel evidence and to to bring them to
4:17
life for for a wider range of people.
4:21
Could you tell us a bit more about the Instagram project,
4:24
please? We were bequeathed half acre
4:29
garden in East Dagenham. It's connected to somewhere
4:32
called stone for cottage. We've separated the garden from
4:35
the cottage. So the bequest was in 2018 and
4:38
we open stone for community garden at the end of 2022.
4:44
So we worked with the community before that to really understand
4:48
what they wanted from green space in their area where what
4:51
were the opportunities and how how could we use that half acre
4:56
to really provide a space that the local community wanted to
5:00
use. We have been working with some
5:04
creative consultants to to to bring the garden to life and
5:09
we've put on a programme across the past over the past year
5:13
particularly working with younger people.
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So if we ran last year some sessions for under fives and
5:22
also an after school club in the garden.
5:24
So again looking at how to sort of respond creatively to to
5:28
nature in the space, but very much bringing people together.
5:32
And alongside that we've worked with a brilliant organisation
5:36
called Thames Chase who have their own volunteers that they
5:40
bring to the garden to help manage manage it.
5:42
So look after it, tend to the garden, keep keep sort of the
5:45
keep, keep things growing but also keep some of the the growth
5:48
under control. And they have also started a
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gardening club made-up of members from the local
5:53
community. Over half of the people that are
5:56
coming to Stone for that don't have outdoor space of their own.
6:00
And it really feels like we've got really wide interest from
6:05
across the community and the feedback that we get suggests
6:08
that we're, you know, we're offering in stone for something
6:13
that they can't find elsewhere in the local area.
6:19
Quite close together. I visited Stonyford Community
6:25
Garden in Dagenham in east London on a windy February day
6:28
where project officer Emma King gave me a tour of the once
6:31
ramshackle cottage garden that she's busy transforming and
6:35
which now welcomes in the local community, including the
6:38
children at the primary school just over the road.
6:42
I'm here on a windy but quite warm February morning at
6:48
Stoneyford Community Garden in East Dagenham with Emma King,
6:52
who's a project officer at National Trust.
6:55
He's closely involved with the project here.
6:58
Hi Emma, Can you describe what what we're looking at at the
7:04
moment? Because it's kind of like a
7:05
fenced off area off a suburban street with lots of colourful
7:11
kind of flags waving about and some kind of artwork.
7:16
But do you want to describe as we go around what we're seeing?
7:19
Yeah. And a little bit of history of
7:20
the project, of course. So.
7:23
So it's Stonyford Community Garden.
7:27
It's a fairly small space. It was, in fact, someone.
7:32
'S domestic back garden. It belonged to the cottage.
7:37
The family had lived in the cottage for 100 years, and this
7:42
part of Dagenham was not that long ago.
7:45
Sort of just before the war was all sorts of farmland and this
7:50
was their small farm, so you've got sort of remnants in the
7:54
garden of of when it was a farm. So there's a few different
7:58
outbuildings here where they would have kept animals and they
8:01
would have stored things. Also had an orchard and the
8:07
orchard still here. So we've got a lovely mature
8:09
orchard of different fruit trees like cherries and plums.
8:14
We're standing under a a lovely old plum tree.
8:18
Has it produced any fruit? Yeah, in here in the summer we
8:21
get lots of fruit. Is it tasty?
8:25
Good. And we have lots of activities
8:27
with the local community to do fruit picking.
8:29
Ohh. So I think for me that's one of
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the key features of the garden is the sort of mature trees
8:37
we've got here of them fruit trees as they say.
8:41
So in the summer we've got lots of shade and things.
8:45
So it's kind of like a a little haven in a in what's now quite a
8:50
residential built up area. We're walking on our new paths
8:56
that we just had put, yeah, had these put in a couple of months
8:59
ago. And because the garden or those
9:03
sort of lovely and charming is a bit higgledy, piggledy, I would
9:07
say that's a bit uneven, the surfaces and things, which looks
9:11
very nice. But now we've got these great
9:14
new paths, which means lots more people can access the site,
9:18
whether that's wheelchair users or people with pushchairs and
9:22
things like that. Who comes here typically?
9:26
So at the moment we've got an after school club so we're just
9:31
down the road from the school. So yeah, I can hear the children
9:35
in the background there, yeah. Yeah, so we've got families who
9:38
come to that. We've also got a gardening club
9:41
which is for sort of local residents joining that, That's
9:44
Fortnightly club so but and this year we're hoping to sort of
9:49
expand the type of activities we run and the kind of people that
9:52
we're welcoming into the space. How long have you been working
9:56
on this project? So I've been involved since
9:59
November 2020. So the the house and garden were
10:05
left to the National Trust in 2018.
10:08
That's quite common with the National Trust.
10:10
Lots of people leave things to us and there's always a decision
10:15
about them, what we would, what we're going to do with those
10:18
places. And there was always an idea
10:21
that we could open this as a community garden.
10:23
But as you can imagine, there's sort of various hoops to jump
10:27
through to to make that happen. And then so that was the plan,
10:34
that it would be a community garden.
10:35
But then COVID came along and things changed a lot and there
10:40
was uncertainty about whether the project would go ahead.
10:43
But actually what what happened with COVID at the National Trust
10:47
is we refocused our strategy and we really saw the need as a
10:52
charity to be creating more urban green space.
10:55
So it felt that actually this was something that would really
10:59
deliver our strategy around urban places, creating more
11:03
urban green space. Once that decision was made,
11:08
began the feasibility work on the project, trying to
11:12
understand, you know, what were the steps that we needed to take
11:16
to to make that happen. And quite early on we decided we
11:21
needed to do a community consultation to just sort of
11:24
understand what the need was in the local area.
11:27
Is this something people would want?
11:29
Is it something they needed? So we worked with a local
11:32
organisation called Company Drinks who are already very much
11:36
embedded in the area and sort of connected with the community.
11:40
So they ran a series of workshops and things to to
11:44
understand what people might want from this base and and we
11:49
also did data mapping and things like that looking on what other
11:51
green space was around, what the demographics of the area were
11:55
like and things like that. So once we've gathered all that
11:59
information and we felt there really was a strong need to have
12:01
something like this in the area, that's when we sort of started
12:05
doing our fundraising and all that kind of stuff to to put in
12:09
a new. And so there was a big decision
12:12
about what would the House be part of the project.
12:15
Where is the house? The.
12:16
Cottage there, yeah. But actually it was decided that
12:20
it needed a lot of renovation and the only way.
12:23
So you sort of get an internal loan to do the renovation, but
12:26
you have to sort of generate income to make sure you're
12:29
paying back that loan. So we've got a private tenant in
12:32
there now they're just as their house, they rent it and so we
12:36
put in a new fence. So it was that was kind of a big
12:38
first step. We're sort of separating the
12:40
house from the garden, making them separate entities, putting
12:44
in a new gate. And then the approach has has
12:48
always kind of been not to. We started doing all these like
12:51
grand plans with architects and thinking like and then sort of
12:56
realising how much that was going to cost and having to
12:59
fundraise huge amounts. And we thought actually let's
13:02
before we do that, let's actually just get it sort of put
13:05
in the bare minimum infrastructure to make the site
13:08
usable and let's just open it and get people in and start
13:11
doing things. And then kind of build from
13:14
there and sort of learn as we go in terms of what is needed.
13:18
In this space, yeah. Does it feel quite an unusual
13:22
project to be working on as part of the National Trust?
13:27
Yes. I would say so.
13:29
I think there's definitely a lot of overlap with other parts of
13:34
the organisation. Lots of our our sort of more
13:39
traditional gardens are very community focused now.
13:43
There's actually a National Trust property down the road
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called Raynham Hall and that's called a community garden.
13:48
The garden there is called the Community Gardener, so it so it
13:52
does exist. And actually since COVID,
13:56
really, there has actually been an explosion in terms of urban
13:58
work and things happening in Manchester and Birmingham and
14:01
there's all these teams and resources being put into that.
14:04
So I suppose it doesn't. You know, it feels like we are.
14:08
There's a kind of shift within the organisation, but I think
14:14
projects like this are still quite new to the organisation
14:18
and so we're all learning as we as we go.
14:21
And what as? A project officer.
14:23
What are your main sort of responsibilities right now?
14:28
So the role requires it's, it's kind of an unusual thing.
14:32
So you'd have the project side and the development side of sort
14:37
of and what is is happening next with the project.
14:41
We need to fundraise what, what, how are we going, what's the
14:45
future going to look like, how's it going to operate long term.
14:48
But then because it is a site that is open to the public, it's
14:51
also very operational and I have to think you know is it safe?
14:56
Do do we have toilets? Do we have, you know, it's just
14:59
kind of like the everyday thing. So I my role is is quite split
15:03
into I would say. We'll return to Emma's tour of
15:07
the community garden later, but let's get back to Joe.
15:09
He'll be telling us more about the founder of the National
15:11
Trust, Octavia Hill, and her mission to improve the
15:15
well-being of city workers. We were talking before about the
15:20
founder Octavia Hills mission for the National Trust.
15:23
You and tell us a bit about that, because maybe not everyone
15:25
knows. Yeah.
15:27
So Octavia Hill was a really inspirational founder for the
15:31
National Trust and really strongly believed in the
15:35
importance and the right that people have to green space
15:39
connection to nature, wide open skies for for the benefit of
15:42
their health and well-being and you know a time of massive
15:46
change and industrialisation in the country late 19th century.
15:50
She, you know she was seeing huge, you know huge influx of
15:55
workers into cities, varying living conditions, you know some
15:59
really terrible living conditions for people.
16:02
And as a a social reformer wanted to kind of address that
16:06
by preserving the sort of heritage and natural spaces
16:10
within cities to to sort of counterbalance that of
16:14
densification within within our towns and cities and campaigned
16:18
really hard to save parks and green spaces in London for the
16:23
benefit of particularly working populations.
16:26
And so that kind of core purpose on which National Trust was
16:30
founded has, you know, is as relevant now as it was at the
16:34
time. You're now Senior programme
16:38
manager of this. Can you tell me a bit about your
16:40
career in project management and and particularly within the
16:43
National Trust? Because I've been trying to
16:46
understand how beneficial it has been to have a professionalised
16:51
project management function and career route within National
16:55
Trust. And also it's an APM corporate
16:58
partner, so you have that kind of extra support and resource
17:02
there. So it would be good to
17:03
understand a little bit about your career.
17:06
So I started working in event management.
17:09
So or it probably you know coming up for about 25 years ago
17:14
my my route into project management and I don't think
17:17
this is unusual actually came through this all through the
17:20
event management route. So I started off working in
17:23
corporate events and then that evolved into working for a youth
17:26
charity. And I just, I really love that
17:29
sense of working with people to make exciting things happen.
17:33
And I guess that that's the sort of endure throughout all of my
17:36
career. And I also sort of liked the
17:39
fact that the sort of way the way I worked helped to bring
17:43
kind of structure and process in that at that point to sort of
17:47
managing an events and you know how that could make things run
17:51
more smoothly. You know it's a bit more
17:54
effective in in making things happen.
17:56
But for various different reasons the sort of relentless
17:59
pace of events but also the kind of short term nature of those
18:04
sort of projects didn't appeal as much.
18:07
And I looked at the time to to see sort of what felt like a way
18:12
of transferring my skills into a similar but perhaps a slightly
18:17
different sort of career. You know I I started looking
18:20
into project management and that really appealed that for similar
18:24
reasons to to event management. But I I love the idea of that
18:28
sort of slightly sort of longer term investment of time and
18:32
energy into sort of enabling change to happen and found a a
18:37
role at the Natural History Museum in London.
18:40
So it's a sort of, it's a bit of a hybrid really between the work
18:43
I've been doing in events and going more formally I think into
18:47
into project management. Had I had any project management
18:51
training? At that point, no.
18:53
So it it was quite a steep learning curve actually moving
18:58
from event management into project management.
19:02
But I was really fortunate that Natural History Museum really
19:06
invested in me as a project manager, as a project
19:09
professional and that's where I got my first qualification for.
19:12
They supported me and getting what was at the time the PMP,
19:15
which I think is now this sort of equivalent to the PMQ's.
19:19
That was a really interesting point actually in my development
19:22
as a project manager because I think it gave me a sense of the
19:27
sort of quality and standards across the profession.
19:31
It was important for my development and understanding of
19:34
how to manage projects well, but also gave me sort of confidence
19:40
as a project manager to know I was sort of on par with others
19:43
in my profession. You know, that's where I feel
19:46
there's a huge amount of value to to qualifications as they
19:50
don't necessarily automatically make you a better project
19:53
manager, but they do give you that insight and that
19:57
opportunity to develop, to develop your skills and I have
20:00
seen in myself, but also in others that I've managed and
20:04
worked with. The sort of confidence boost it
20:07
gives to sort of there's a real affirmation in terms of skills
20:12
and experience and and understanding that, yeah, you
20:16
are of a standard and sort of where you sit in a in a sort of
20:21
much wider profession which is so vast in terms of the range of
20:25
different projects that that people could be managing.
20:28
Can you tell me about your career journey through the
20:32
National Trust then, from a project management perspective
20:35
and the kind of support and the qualifications that you've
20:39
worked through? Coming up for about 13 years
20:42
ago, I was lucky enough to get a role in the Midlands, actually
20:47
working on some of our our properties in Shropshire and
20:51
looking at visitor infrastructure initially sort of
20:54
looking at how to improve the experience of visitors have to
21:00
our properties in those places. And so I was working with
21:05
fantastic teams of cross discipline in terms of sort of
21:09
expertise you know across a range of consultants.
21:12
Also working with our operational teams who are kind
21:14
of on the front line of the places where where people visit.
21:18
And then gradually over the course of kind of working with
21:22
operational colleagues at some of our places, I also started to
21:27
explore the work that we were doing in Birmingham that was my
21:32
sort of initial foray into our urban places work.
21:35
The National Trust had been approached by the Canal and
21:37
River Trust, who owned and still owned the Roundhouse in
21:42
Birmingham, to to look at what to do with what was a stunning
21:47
building that, you know, had, over time sort of fallen into
21:53
that sort of level of disrepair. Both Canal and River Trust and
21:56
National Trust recognised the sort of opportunity for that
21:59
building, which is right on the canals in Birmingham, to be
22:02
something quite special for the city and for the communities
22:06
that live around it. And so, yeah, we set about
22:09
restoring the Roundhouse and finding a new purpose for it.
22:14
So yeah, so I've been really lucky in the range of things
22:17
that I've done at the National Trust and and bringing that
22:20
experience to London then. So sort of that project
22:23
management experience and sort of seeing how that can inform
22:27
and influence and sort of sort of add value to my role now as a
22:31
programme manager. And thinking about how you can
22:35
bring those sort of that range of projects and interventions
22:38
together and in that sort of strategic change programme for
22:42
the work that we're doing in London and and organizationally
22:45
and within that time, you know again I've been lucky enough
22:48
that the the organisation has supported me to become a
22:52
chartered project professional. And that's something that was
22:55
quite a special moment for me because I've been kind of
22:57
watching the journey of the APM towards becoming chartered body
23:01
for project management and to then have that opportunity to to
23:05
receive chartership, you know it's a really important moment
23:08
in my career. I think you know the the
23:10
importance of chartership to project management in terms of,
23:14
you know, it adding that sort of affirmation and that sort of
23:19
gravitas I guess to the profession in terms of it, you
23:23
know, being on par with other chartered professions as well, I
23:26
I think it's been really exciting.
23:29
What's it mean to you to have a professionalised project team or
23:34
teams? Actually, is programme manager
23:37
working for you? So I mean, I've been hugely
23:40
impressed by how seriously the profession is taken within the
23:44
organisation, but what's the kind of, what benefits is that
23:48
brought to you as someone needing to get the job done
23:51
across multiple projects? You know how seriously National
23:55
Trusts take project management? It's really visible in the
24:00
standard of what we achieve, but also you know the the value that
24:06
projects add to the delivery of our strategy and most
24:09
importantly that delivery of public benefit.
24:12
So we invest huge sums of money in projects and it's really
24:17
important that that those charitable funds are spent
24:20
really wisely and really effectively.
24:23
And I think the amount that we achieve through projects is, is
24:26
really sort of testimony to how effectively we can use projects
24:30
to to deliver public benefit. It shouldn't come as a surprise,
24:33
but I think it's really important that we do have a
24:37
super professional group of of people running those projects.
24:41
So to sort of maintain the consistency of them but also
24:45
make sure that we're as successful as we can be each
24:49
time. And I think we can do that more
24:51
confidently knowing that we have those brilliant people in place
24:56
that are kind of safeguarding the sort of integrity of the
25:00
projects that they're working on.
25:02
I mean it's brilliant for our people that we work for an
25:05
organisation that does invest in our professional development,
25:09
but it also again improves the sort of skills and confidence of
25:13
of those that are working on projects.
25:15
What support do you receive as a project professional, either
25:20
from within the National Trust or from it's corporate
25:24
partnership with APM? I think one of the really
25:28
fantastic things that has evolved over in the organisation
25:31
over a number of years is how sort of dynamic and vibrant
25:35
project community we've got. That's hugely exciting actually,
25:38
because you know I hear it from colleagues a lot that sometimes
25:42
working on projects can feel a bit isolating.
25:45
So to have that wider community, whether that is within our
25:49
regions, so National Trust is sort of divided into a number of
25:52
regions but also across the whole of the country where we
25:57
can come together and there's different ways that we do that.
25:59
So as I say there's a, there's a sort of that our project and
26:02
programme management office facilitates a number of ways
26:07
that we can engage with what's going on in the professions or
26:10
meet up often virtually to hear from other project
26:13
professionals. So there is that sense of of
26:17
being part of this amazing community across the
26:20
organisation, you know 100 hundreds of professionals
26:23
regionally. Similarly we have you know we
26:26
have a a cohort within our region that we can tap into and
26:30
we can do that again through learning from each other.
26:34
We do visits to other other projects so that you know we we
26:39
hear what's going on here about good practise elsewhere and and
26:42
learning from from what other people are doing.
26:44
We have sort of particular specialist insights, so
26:49
different different ways of of connecting.
26:52
What do you enjoy most about your role and being in project
26:56
management and working for the National Trust?
26:59
I love the range of people I get to work with.
27:02
That's it's one thing I I clocked really early on.
27:06
I think in in my career is that I have that expertise around
27:12
being a project professional. That sort of goes to the core of
27:16
what what I'm good at and what I can bring to those teams of
27:20
people trying to make change happen.
27:22
But particularly in the trust, the range of people and the sort
27:28
of passion and professionalism that I get to sort of interact
27:33
with through being a project professional is just incredible.
27:37
And you know, I I get that through through the
27:40
organisation, but also because I'm working so frequently in
27:45
partnership, I get that through other organisations as well.
27:48
So I just this it really brilliant that that sense of
27:52
collaboration with others to make such exciting things happen
27:57
and you know partnership isn't always straightforward to make
28:00
it happen but the the rewards can be amazing.
28:03
So that's that's one of the things I really value and enjoy.
28:08
OK. Well, listen, thank you so much
28:10
for your time. It's been a pleasure talking to
28:11
you. Thank you.
28:14
It's time to get back to Emma and Dagenham, who tells me more
28:17
about her work on the garden and what the new community garden
28:20
means to those who live nearby. In your role as a project
28:27
officer, you're part of the National Trust kind.
28:31
Of. Project management framework, so
28:34
are. You studying towards any
28:37
particular qualifications? Yes.
28:40
So I'm actually doing the APM PMQ at the moment, the project
28:44
management qualification and that's the one where you do the
28:48
training in six. Weeks.
28:50
Yes. So how's that going?
28:52
It's really good. It's it's so we've kind of
28:55
covered because of the course content now and I think it is
28:58
going to be very useful in my role and sort of just a lot,
29:03
yeah, having a lot more theory behind the work I'm doing.
29:07
But the tricky thing is revising for the exam and I don't.
29:10
Think I've done any revision over a decade, so it's a bit of
29:14
a a skill I haven't used in a while.
29:16
Ohh, you'll be fine. How's it feel to be part of an
29:19
organisation that's giving you this qualifications?
29:23
Fair bit of support and what you're doing as well.
29:26
Yeah, I feel so lucky actually that I'm getting, yeah, the
29:30
training as part of my job role. I know people pay lots of money
29:33
to do qualifications like this and it makes you feel that they,
29:38
you know, they want you to progress in your role and yeah,
29:42
there's a clear path in terms of so at the moment I'm a project
29:45
officer, but once I have this qualification, the hope is then
29:48
I can move up to a project manager role.
29:51
So it's nice to know that there's that.
29:55
Route of progression within the organisation and what has the
30:00
response been from the community towards the garden?
30:04
What's worked or what hasn't worked?
30:06
Has anything surprised you? So we have had a really positive
30:12
response from the community. I think people because it was
30:16
someone's back garden for so long, but it's quite closed off.
30:20
You know you've got high hedges and things people can't
30:22
necessarily, you can't see in from the street really.
30:25
So I think people are so happy that they can come inside now
30:28
and use the space. One of the reasons it was left
30:32
to the National Trust was because the the lady who left it
30:35
to us didn't want the land to be built on as she wanted it to be
30:39
left for the local community. And I think the community feels
30:44
when everyone tells stories about Mary who lived in the
30:46
house, they say how generous she was, how.
30:49
She sort of. Was always doing things for the
30:51
community, so it's amazing that she now has this legacy for
30:55
everybody around here where they can come in and use.
30:57
This space, I can see some of the ground has been cleared.
31:00
There's like a pile of rubble at the back.
31:03
There's a a shed and a greenhouse and really just how
31:07
you imagine a kind of rural garden actually to look like,
31:10
and some vegetable breads. So what are your plans for the
31:14
garden for this year? So we a lot of the work we've
31:20
done to date has been kind of clearing things.
31:24
So when we took over the space, there was about 3.
31:27
It had been not touched for about 3 years.
31:29
So it was really overgrown and things like that.
31:32
So we've been slowly working to just get things back.
31:36
So now we can get a bit more of a sense of the space.
31:39
And really what we want to do now is start to kind of do
31:43
zones. So an area or a zone that's kind
31:46
of focused on families, an area that's focused on food growing,
31:51
a nature area. So that, yeah, now we're
31:53
starting to sort of plot out and plan out a bit more of a design
31:57
or thinking a bit more about the visitor experience now what?
32:02
What benefits do you think it's brought local people?
32:05
What have they mentioned to you? What is the intention for the
32:09
project to deliver? So we have been collecting
32:14
testimonials from people, which has given a real insight into
32:18
what what people, you know, how what they feel about the garden.
32:22
One of the things that always sticks with me is someone from
32:26
the after school club parents saying, you know, we would just
32:30
be sat indoors watching TV right now if we didn't have this.
32:33
So it's kind of that breath of fresh air, that space to just be
32:38
outdoors. So I guess many people around
32:40
here don't have access to outside space for themselves.
32:44
Yes. No.
32:45
So we've monitor that. We sort of kind of capture
32:47
feedback from people and we know that over 50% of the people
32:51
using this space don't have their own garden.
32:53
They don't have their own outdoor space.
32:55
So that is one of the key audiences we're trying to
32:58
connect with. So we're really pleased that we
33:00
are. So yeah, it's just that we we
33:04
believe that spending time outside gives you a sense of
33:07
well-being supports mental health and physical health.
33:10
So it's kind of just by opening up the garden, it's.
33:13
That's what we're hope we're doing.
33:15
It's allowing people that I guess it is.
33:17
I mean the keyword is communities and it's a community
33:20
garden. Do you feel that there is a
33:22
community growing here? Yes, definitely with the two
33:26
groups that we've formed. So the after school clubs
33:28
they've and with our gardening club, they've all sort of
33:32
reflected how in this area people don't tend to talk to
33:36
their neighbours so much or people don't necessarily know.
33:39
People say hi as they're walking down the street, but now they've
33:42
started to feel like they do know their neighbours more.
33:45
So I think it's wonderful. Yeah, that's been so touching to
33:49
see that. Yeah, it actually is just
33:52
providing a space for them, the people to start to get to know
33:54
each other. What are the biggest challenges
33:58
for the project like this? Has it been just clearing the
34:03
space, imagining what could come next?
34:06
Is it engaging the community, dealing with the different
34:10
stakeholders here for you? What has it been?
34:13
Sort of the most challenging aspects?
34:16
I think one of the things is is is funding.
34:21
We're we've been quite lucky that we've we've managed to
34:25
secure money from the National Trust which is brilliant and
34:27
externally we've fundraised for money too but I there's still so
34:31
much more we could do here. We don't have proper toilets or
34:35
water or power. If we could staff at full time,
34:38
so it could be open full time. But it's it's it's a tricky
34:42
thing because it's quite, it's not like a big Grand National
34:46
trust house where you've got an income stream.
34:49
It's quite difficult with the community garden to sponge those
34:53
elements to to operate it. So that that I would say is the
34:56
biggest challenge is working out how we do, how we're going to
35:00
make that happen going. Forward.
35:02
Thank you Emma. It's such a treat to come here
35:05
and get a behind the scenes explanation from you.
35:09
It's a wonderful project, so I wish you the best of luck with
35:12
it. Thank you.
35:13
What a wonderful addition to the community.
35:22
O We've heard a lot about the urban side to the National Trust
35:25
work, but it's time to find out more about its pioneering work
35:28
in renewable energy. Senior Project Manager Denon
35:31
works on the Charities Renewable Energy Investment Programme,
35:35
which is now focused on achieving Net 0 by 2030.
35:40
Shall we begin with you giving us an overview of your role and
35:43
responsibilities? I'm one of the lead project
35:46
managers on the National Trust Renewable Energy Programme.
35:49
I've been working on the programme for the last eight
35:51
years. Responding to climate change is
35:53
one of the Trust's top two priorities in our current
35:56
strategy. And the renewables programme has
35:58
been running since 2013. The to reduce our all use and to
36:02
deliver a target that we set ourselves of getting 50% of our
36:06
energy from renewables by 2021 against the 2008 baseline.
36:11
That was the first phase of our programme.
36:13
So we we delivered over 130 renewable energy projects,
36:16
properties that included things like hydropower stations, solar
36:21
installations, heat pumps and biomass boilers across our
36:25
properties. We're now kind of moving forward
36:28
into the second phase of that programme that is very much
36:31
targeted on the ambition from the National Trust to get to net
36:35
Carbon 0 by 2030. And my part in that is along our
36:40
other lead project manager, I'm responsible for delivering the
36:43
heat side of that renewable energy programme going forward.
36:46
So that is working with our the team of 6 project managers to
36:50
implement again replacement of oil boilers and gas boilers, our
36:54
properties with things like heat pumps and biomass boilers.
36:58
I guess there's all different kinds of stakeholders who or
37:01
partners that you're involved that are involved in the
37:03
projects. And there's a huge number of
37:06
stakeholders involved. You can imagine the
37:08
sensitivities of a National Trust site.
37:10
We are designated up to the eyeballs in many of our sites,
37:14
whether that be environmental designations for ecology,
37:17
whether it be archaeology, obviously the sensitivity of
37:21
listed buildings and any kind of works that take place within
37:24
those. So there's a huge number of both
37:26
internal and external consultees that we need to involve in in
37:31
our projects. Do you enjoy that side of
37:33
things? Because I always think of
37:34
project management as being as much about the people side of
37:37
things as the technical side of things.
37:40
What's been your experience so far?
37:42
What What do you enjoy about your role?
37:44
I really enjoy seeing the variety of places that we look
37:48
after and and hearing some of the stories that you maybe don't
37:51
get exposed to as a as a member of the public.
37:53
Looking around from from those specialists in those really, you
37:57
know, technical areas, whether someone's like a leather
38:00
specialist or a specialist in a particular type of floor tile or
38:03
a particular type of nut. And getting their insights into
38:06
that, that project development process.
38:08
It can be really tricky to manage when we've got lots of
38:10
conflicting opinions about what is more important in terms of a
38:15
project development. But yeah, it's really
38:17
interesting as well. How important to you personally
38:20
is it to be working on in renewable energy in that area
38:25
for the Trust? Yeah, it's really important.
38:27
I've worked in in energy my whole career and I started off
38:31
working on fossil fuel power stations, but always with a view
38:34
of getting into renewables and I've worked on wind energy, wave
38:38
and tidal energy and now we're in kind of renewable heat and
38:41
solar as well. So that's really my passion and
38:43
and doing it at places that are to be enjoyed by the public as a
38:47
whole and making them more sustainable just makes it even
38:49
more, you know, ambitious and enjoyable.
38:53
How are your projects, or other projects of this particular
38:56
programme, shaping the direction of the National Trust?
39:00
I think having delivered this programme that was set up
39:03
started up looking at a 2008 baseline set up in 2013.
39:07
So it's been running a long time now and it's one of the first
39:10
programmes that the Trust had as I believe.
39:14
And so I think that the success of that and seeing the benefits
39:17
that can come from working as a programme have fed into the way
39:21
that the Trust kind of now works going forward with programmes is
39:24
a lot more programmes been set up to deliver strategic
39:28
priorities for the organisation. I mean, how long have you been
39:33
in project management? Have you always, Was it always
39:35
something you wanted to do? How did you end up becoming a
39:37
project manager? I guess I've always been in
39:41
project management really in one form or another.
39:44
So initially worked on the the Empower graduate scheme as an
39:48
engineer part of their graduate scheme, but that immediately was
39:51
going into to large scale projects and working with their
39:55
fossil fuel coal power station development team.
39:58
So huge, huge projects you know taking decades really in
40:03
development. And then I've I've been kind of
40:07
at the project manager level for the development of.
40:11
Wind farms like onshore wind farms, so taking those through
40:14
through to the consenting stage but then handed them over to to
40:18
another stage. Again, quite large scale
40:20
projects and now the projects that I work on and that my team
40:24
work on, we take them all the way from feasibility through to
40:28
through planning process, through the tendering process to
40:32
appoint the contractor, manage them through the construction
40:35
phase and really important manage that handover process to
40:38
make sure that the end users are really happy with what they've
40:42
got and often kind of ongoing support beyond that as well.
40:45
And now you're chartered, so that's quite recent.
40:48
So congratulations on achieving that.
40:50
What does it mean to be chartered and and and in fact,
40:53
what has it meant to have a kind of professional framework laid
40:58
out for you within the National Trust?
41:00
Thank you. Yeah I I got my chartership I
41:02
think in November. I think it it shows that the
41:06
national Trusts really investing in the development of their
41:09
their people and and recognising project management as a as a
41:13
professional skill in itself. And I think by investing in that
41:18
training and and having the framework that we then follow as
41:22
an organisation is really brings on the quality of the projects
41:26
that we're delivering and make sure that we are controlling
41:30
things like scope much more carefully and and obviously time
41:34
cost quality throughout the the project, recycle the, the
41:38
chartership. I think for me it's my team,
41:41
we're all going through like the project management qualification
41:43
and by going through the judge publication it you know allows
41:47
me to sort of remember those sort of technical things a bit
41:50
more and be supportive from that point of view.
41:52
I think it carries a bit of authority when you're talking to
41:54
clients and and project teams as they're as a project manager,
41:58
well that's a a lead project manager on a project.
42:01
It gives gives a bit more gravitas I suppose.
42:04
Yeah, absolutely. And and what kind of
42:06
professional support do you receive, not only from within
42:09
the National Trust, but? Do you use any APM?
42:11
Resources at all. I've been listening to your
42:15
podcast quite a bit actually recently, but when I was going
42:18
through the chartership process. Can you tell me about lessons
42:22
learned at National Trust? How does the Trust record and
42:27
share valuable experience on projects around the
42:30
organisation? So a very basic level within our
42:35
we've got a like a project management workbook that we use
42:38
and certainly within my team we have a lessons learned log
42:42
within that. So that as you're going through
42:44
each month, month and updating your your workbook you can think
42:48
of or what lessons have I learned this month and you can
42:50
make a note of them. And then those those get picked
42:53
up at our at what we call a Gate 4 review which is like an end of
42:57
project review. But in in our team as a
43:01
programme, we undertake those using our programme officers.
43:04
So there's that continuity from 11 project to the next.
43:08
And those project offices also facilitate our startup meetings
43:12
for our new projects, which is fantastic because it means that
43:15
all of the that those kind of golden gems and Nuggets that
43:18
have come specifically from, in this case, you know, renewable
43:21
energy projects that you can then bring those forward and
43:24
they can connect people up with others who've been through
43:27
similar similar projects or technologies and then they can
43:31
apply them in those projects going forward.
43:33
Am I right in thinking that your programme or the projects you
43:36
work on in terms of renewable energy, the you're you're doing
43:40
the same thing multiple times, so it might be unknown putting
43:44
in a ground source heat pump in one property that will then be
43:47
replicated across other properties, is that is that how
43:51
it how it's organised? Yeah, absolutely.
43:53
So every project is unique because every property has its
43:57
own unique quirks and designations and people of
44:02
course. But yeah, the whole benefit of
44:05
of doing this as a programme is that we're able to share their
44:09
documents like the our, our. At the moment, one of the things
44:12
that I'm working on is making sure that our feasibility scope
44:16
of work that we give to our consultants is delivering
44:19
everything that we wanted to deliver.
44:20
And then that document will be used and adapted for each of our
44:23
projects to make sure we're getting the same information on
44:25
each down to even actually giving them a a template for our
44:28
feasibility studies. So that we we make sure we're
44:30
getting all of the key data that we need.
44:33
But then through you know through the planning process
44:36
there's always things that you can take from other similar
44:38
projects. And obviously we've got the
44:40
costs of the implementation of the last grants will support
44:44
project for example that we did or biomass boiler project that
44:46
we did. We've got fuel costs for our
44:49
existing properties that we can work into our investment
44:53
appraisals and and yeah, there's there's loads and loads of
44:57
things that we can bring from one similar project to a next,
45:01
next project within our programme.
45:03
Is your project team then centrally based or based and
45:07
then they go out to the different projects?
45:09
Or how do you organise it in terms of project team that
45:13
you're running and then the actual sort of individual
45:17
projects that might be in locations all around the
45:20
country? So from an organisational
45:22
structure point of view, we sit centrally but physically they're
45:26
located each of the project managers within the regions and
45:29
face it within hubs or often home based or.
45:33
But then be going out to properties locally to them and
45:36
get to know the the specialist consultants that that are you
45:40
know NT employees that may be specialists in archaeology or
45:43
ecology or planning in their regions.
45:45
So they get to know those people, and those people then
45:47
work on multiple projects. I wanted to ask you what it what
45:52
it means to have a team that's professionally trained in
45:56
project management. What?
45:57
What does that mean for the delivery of projects and to the
46:00
overall success of projects? One of the the things about
46:05
having a team that is a dedicated team of project
46:08
monitors, not only are they are they sort of technically expert
46:11
in that they they know how to follow the project management
46:15
framework and they are making sure that they're keeping
46:18
everything to time, cost and quality.
46:20
They're reviewing the risks, they're applying risks from
46:22
other projects. But also the very fact that they
46:25
are a dedicated project manager is a real bonus in our programme
46:28
because otherwise these projects would be being delivered by
46:31
operational teams that are being dragged in 20 different
46:35
directions with things that are going on that are urgent that
46:38
they can't, you know they have to deal with there and then.
46:41
But by having a dedicated project management resource that
46:44
you can put onto projects and that is their their focus and
46:47
they draw on the expertise of the local operational team staff
46:52
and and bring those in. But they they save their time by
46:55
they deliver the project and they drive it forward and they
46:57
make it happen. I think that that can't be
46:59
underestimated, the benefit of that.
47:02
I imagine the projects at National Trust are kind of quite
47:06
unique just by the nature of the organisation and the different
47:10
sort of properties and land and coastline that it manages, but
47:14
could you tell us a bit about those unique challenges?
47:19
The most unusual was a property that was completely disconnected
47:22
from the grid and we were looking looking to reduce as
47:27
much as possible about oil consumption in their generator
47:29
because all of that oil had to be transported across
47:33
effectively the sea because it was it was it's quite off almost
47:38
completely cut off from the the land which obviously is huge
47:42
pollution risk cost a lot of money, produces a lot of carbon.
47:45
So that that one was particularly interesting that we
47:48
ended up putting in a reasonably a large solar array on that
47:52
property and then having a a battery storage and generator
47:55
system. What would you say the most
47:58
important lessons you've learned from running projects at
48:01
National Trusts, either for the way you run projects or lead
48:04
projects? Or.
48:05
Personally, the skills you need to be an effective project
48:09
professional. I think this is applicable to
48:12
all projects but particularly within the National Trust is the
48:17
ability to facilitate lots of different viewpoints and ideas
48:24
and to to get decisions made. So not being the decision maker
48:29
as such because I am I am the project manager that is you know
48:33
reporting into a client and and a sponsor who are ultimately
48:35
making the decision. But the ability to draw together
48:38
lots of information and present it in a business case
48:43
effectively to to those making the decision and and and bring
48:48
that team with you. So when I always find that if
48:51
you have specialists in different subject areas and you
48:55
need to reach a decision and conflicting views on where
48:58
something should go or how something should be done, that
49:00
we get them all those people together and and get that
49:03
discussion as a whole, we we, we seem to still be able to reach a
49:07
balanced decision at the end of the day.
49:09
That's me. That's something I think many
49:12
project professionals contend with.
49:14
But have you got any tips? Actually, when you have to do
49:17
this in real life? Have you?
49:19
Is there any kind of hacks or tips you've picked up about how
49:22
to facilitate conversations like that?
49:26
Getting everyone together if you can in the same place and going
49:29
and looking at something together, especially if it's
49:32
like a physical construction project, getting out and walking
49:36
the of the pipe work or the the area that's going to be
49:40
disturbed or that going into the building that's going to be the
49:43
plant room. If you can do that together,
49:45
that always seems to be more productive than trying.
49:48
You know sometimes you end up having to have one to one
49:50
conversations just purely because of Diaries and not being
49:53
able to get everyone together. But wherever possible, if you've
49:56
got those those key viewpoints, if you can get them physically
49:59
together, I find that's always really beneficial.
50:03
What your career ambitions are, you're chartered.
50:06
I don't know that I've ever really had career ambitions as
50:09
such. I I think what drives me
50:11
personally is coming back to this, being interested in what
50:15
it is that you're doing and and thinking that it's a useful and
50:18
important thing to be doing for society as a whole or for the
50:21
environment and planet as a whole.
50:24
And that's kind of always been what's driven me and kind of
50:27
career decisions. Brilliant.
50:29
Thank you. Uh, was there anything else you
50:32
wanted to add? Yeah, I think what makes, what
50:35
makes delivering projects part of what makes delivering
50:38
projects in the National Trust Fund is that the colleagues that
50:41
you work with and how skilled those people are in their
50:44
particular areas of knowledge. And so you're both learning
50:47
about those things which can be really interested, but you're
50:50
bringing them together to be a project team.
50:52
And when you all get hooked on the idea and and enthusiastic
50:57
about it and delivering it, then that helps really drive the
51:00
project forward. But it also makes it more
51:03
enjoyable to work as part of that team with those
51:05
interesting, passionate people. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of
51:08
fun, actually. They thank you so much for your
51:11
time. It's been an eye opener speaking
51:14
to you. Brilliant.
51:15
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.
51:22
When most people think of the National Trust, they think of
51:25
historic houses or the work it does along the coast of England.
51:28
This episode I've learned about its increasingly important role
51:32
in cities and how project management is central to its
51:35
working renewables. Both these areas of focus are
51:38
guiding the future direction of the National Trust, and Joe,
51:42
Emma, Andy seem truly excited and driven by their mission.
51:46
In episode 3, I'll be meeting 3 project management.
51:49
Apprentices at the National Trust will be telling me all
51:52
about their work, so don't miss it.
51:54
Thanks again to Joe, Emma, Andy and to you for listening.
51:57
As ever, we want to hear your comments, feedback and
52:00
suggestions at apmpodcasts@thinkpublishing.co.uk.